July 30, 2025 • 22 mins
Your boss just stole your brilliant idea. Again. While you're sitting there feeling invisible, they're presenting "their" genius solution to the entire leadership team. Sound familiar? You're not alone. Idea theft is alive and well in Australian offices, and this week we're giving you the tools to fight back. We're also tackling the mortifying moment we've all had - crying at work - and helping a millennial navigate the tricky waters of managing a team of boomers. This week we're solving workplace dilemmas that hit close to home, from generational clashes to protecting your intellectual property!
What you'll learn:
• The Authority Paradox: How to earn respect when you're the youngest person in charge
• The Credit Protection System: Simple tactics to stop your boss stealing your ideas
• The Crying Recovery Plan: How to bounce back professionally after showing emotion at work
• The Generational Bridge: Why adapting your style (temporarily) isn't selling out
• The Paper Trail Strategy: Creating evidence that protects your contributions
• The Salary Reality Check: Australia's highest-paying jobs revealed (surgeons still dominating at $472K)
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your go-to workplace advice podcast where awkward career questions get real-world solutions.
Got office politics nightmares or boss-from-hell situations? Send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain completely anonymous!
SHOW MENTIONS:
Get more Sarah Davidson in her sensational podcast Seize The Yay!
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HOSTS: Sarah Davidson and Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
BIZ UPDATE:
Sarah Davidson has been sharing her career wisdom with us, and now she's officially here to stay. She's joining BIZ Inbox full-time as co-host alongside Em Vernem and honestly, we couldn't be more excited.
Mamamia's studios are furnished with thanks to Fenton & Fenton. For more head to their website here.
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma Mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome back to biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon
and this is your HR free zone. Do not tell
our HR department. Here at Mama Mia, where we tackle
all your workplace dilemmas. We give you hard and fast answers.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And I'm Sarah Davison, lawyer turned entrepreneur and now yupper,
ready to dive into whatever workplace chaos that you guys
have sent our way.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And of course, if you want to submit any questions
for dilemmas, we want them all the juicy of the better.
We always say, we had one about hooking up in
an office. We had one about after workplace anxiety from drinking.
So good, How good was that?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Such a goodie.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And you can remain completely anonymous when I hear a
your dirty laundry when I here to message your bosses
on LinkedIn, we just want to give you the answers
because we find your seems very interesting and we want.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
To help out m Today we're helping someone whose boss
keeps claiming credit for their hard work. Oh my gosh,
that is so annoying, because apparently idea theft is well
and truly alive in Australian officers. And we're also talking
about bouncing back from one of those mortifying moments that
we've all had, crying at work and wondering if your
career or at least your reputation is over. I have
(01:28):
credit work so many times. I love crying our eye.
It's just make you cry right now.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, it makes sense to cry on company time, like
at least.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Get paid for. But first, we're diving into a workplace
dynamic that's becoming more common than you'd think, and it's
all about age, authority and earning respect when the odds
feel stacked against you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
This actually reminds me. Have you seen the ATO just
drop their annual list of Australia's highest paying jaded?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Fascinating?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh my god. Okay, so we have some jobs here listed.
So surgeons are still absolutely dominating the country. They're earning
around four hundred and seventy two thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Who did you think was next? I should have made you.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Get yeah, okay, in my head.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I thought medical or medical financial.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And honestly I want the medicals to be at the
top one hundred. You're actually saving life with that you're actually.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean, we are also saving lives producer.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I could be up there.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We're answering the heavy hidden questions. Okay, we don't.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Even count that high. Like me, trying to read that
number took a really long time concentration.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You are holding up the workplaces of Australia in your
own way. Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I wanted to see this one though. Like financial dealers
at three hundred and fifty five thousand dollars, what is
a financial dealer?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I don't know what that is. I think it means
people in finance, like people brokering financial deals, like brokery.
Is that adjacent? Yeah? Not really. I mean it pays
to be creative about your title.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Right, it pays to be creative. But I find this
so interesting because I feel like there's been so many
studies of people asking kids what they want to be
when they grow up, and back in the day, Back
in my day, it was always like astronaut, doctor lawyer,
and that would like his Cowboys plays Cowboys and that
would like influencer YouTuber. And I feel like now we're
going to start seeing like the different careers and seeing
(03:28):
this is how I feel like generations do become contentious
with each other. Yeah, and what they want to do
in careers and how they want to be paid for
their chosen line of work. And I'm just finding like
these stats so so interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, I also think that what doesn't make the annual
list of highest paying jobs is the self employed. Yes,
so there are influencers out there who are absolutely dominating
beyond four hundred and seventy two thousand dollars a year.
Oh my god, but that's not a salary, so that
wouldn't be on the list.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh my god, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Right, so we could do this, so we they were
already doing this. Well, doctors watching cannot confer more deny
our salaries for this podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Who had become influencer doctors. That means we'll just be
like billionaires.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Guys in my sixteen years after we finished it.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Bitches, no want to become an influencer doctor.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, let's ned by mama, Mia Colin. You're like, jolly doctor.
Oh my god, we'd be so good.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
We could do this, but for like doctors who want advice.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
No, I feel like it would be for like people
who have weird medical issues, like the rash that they
got that they don't want to go. We'd be so qualified,
and we'd be really discreet, and we wouldn't laugh.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
We'd be so good at that. Okay, our first question,
let's get into it. We got this question from Emma,
who emailed us saying, I'm a millennial who's just been
promoted to manage a team of boomers. God, the generational
gap feels massive. They seem to question my authority and
I'm struggling to connect with their work style. Any tips
(05:02):
for bridging this divide and earning their respect.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I feel like this is increasingly common.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Where have you ever managed someone older than you?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh, that's a good question. Have I no, Because in
the workplace I started in so in my corporate career,
I left before I got too senior, and then we
ran our own businesses and oh, well, I guess my husband,
but not in terms of inside our business. Okay, yeah,
I guess it's really been us and then teams of juniors.
(05:32):
So I've never had this problem, but I repeatedly hear
of how commonly it occurs, and I think it has
always occurred. But it's more that the generational approach to
workplace etiquette and attitudes and work structure has never been
so different, so I don't think the clashes would have
been the same as they are now. I there'd always
be a problem with authority that comes with age, but
(05:54):
now I think it also comes with the sort of
younger generation's approach to work that would make it really difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It's so interesting because I feel like I'm in that
generation now. I'm not a manager, and I've talked loudly
about how I shouldn't be a manager. But a lot
of my friends are now at that age where at
that age where a lot of them are starting to
manage people older than them, not really boomers, but more
younger millennials managing Gen X, and my friends are so
(06:23):
so nervous, like they are trying so hard to be
approachable but also have that authority, and a lot of
them are saying that it's really hard to manage people
older than you because they don't want to be managed
by someone younger than them, and they find like they're
the hardest people to manage, like compared to everyone else
(06:43):
who are their same age or younger. It's the ones
that they have to manage who are older, who have
been in the workforce for much longer than they have
who are trying to like also insert their authority over them,
and it just becomes this massive clash. And I just
feel like when it comes to jobs, you just have
to remove everyone's ages because you're going to go crazy.
(07:05):
And it's not just in management. I think this also
comes down to salaries. When you find out someone younger
than you has a bigger salary than you, you do
go a bit instane, like you are like, but when
I was her age, I was on this salary, So
how is it working out? And I think age in
the workplace is something that has to just be completely
removed from everyone's mind.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, and it is so hard when the gap is
so wide that like it's impossible to ignore when you're
in person. But I think the way you worded the question, Emma,
is where the power of your answer is. I think
that it is all about bridging the divide and earning
their respect. And this doesn't come from experience, obviously, but
(07:45):
I do think that any time you come up against
even if it's not age, anytime you come up against
a difference with someone in the workplace, before you can
influence them in any way, you do need them to
appreciate you. You do need them to value your opinion
before they'll even hear what it is. And my strategy
for doing that not in a workplace, but in business.
(08:06):
I've many times found myself at pitching at a table
where I'm the youngest or I'm the only woman, so
it's different but similar, and i know I'm not going
to be heard until they respect what I'm saying or
my right to be there. And it sounds silly, but
my trick has always been to emulate what I think
they will respect. And even though I'm like, you don't
(08:26):
need a change who you are, like, you know, make
your own mark, be an individual, I do also think
that there is something to be said for leaning into
what you know they respect and kind of copying that
until you get on their level and then hitting them
with the different things that are more from your generation.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So that's such good advice.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
For example, in theory, if I want to go to
a pitch dressed in not a suit and in really
you know, fun, sparkly clothes, and you know I have
every right to do that. Our generation appreciates that my
talent isn't undermined by what I wear. But if I'm
going to pitch to a much older generation of serious
men who have operated in a very different workplace environment,
(09:06):
soonest of my life, I'm going to dress appropriately. Some
people would be like, don't let anyone know your sparkle,
But then I'm like, but the reality is I want
to be heard. I want to be heard. Why would
I not give myself the best chance. So I kind
of think putting on a skin that's going to allow
you to get on that level at least while you're
building trust, Like, don't go straight in with your sparkly,
(09:28):
fluffy outfits. That can come build. And it's the same
with any relationship. You wouldn't come into any relationship showing
your absolute wildest full colors in the beginning. You do
gently kind of unravel that, And I think there will
be some like activists out there who are like, no,
you should never have to wear a suit and tie
just to fit in. But I do think you have to. Yeah,
(09:49):
you do have to maybe a little bit play again
to get there, and then once you've got their respect,
once you get there, they won't care what you're wearing. Yeah,
it's just the very early days.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I would also say for our generation, like younger millennials,
older gen Z I personally get being liked versus being
respected quite confused. So just make sure that you don't
have to like your manager, but you have to respect them,
and just know the difference between that, because it's so
easy to want everyone to like you like it's so
easy to fall into that loop. But I think now
(10:20):
that you're a manager and to first time managing older
people notice the difference because if they respect you, that's
literally all you need.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah. Yeah, they don't have to be a best friend,
and in fact, it's probably better if you don't like
my My default to trying to disarm people is to
be warm and fuzzy and make you like me, but
often that undermines the respect that you get as a leader.
So sometimes it is like to a group of millennial sure,
I'd go and hug them and get coffees and want
to go on mail dates. To a group of boomer
(10:49):
staff members, I wouldn't suggest let's go on a nail
date for one day because I feel like that wouldn't
add to the respect that you read the room a
little bit on how you approach what they respond too well,
and most of the time it will come back to
how good your work is. Yeah, So the more you
can show them that that you are good at what
you do.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, you're in that job for a reason.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, and you just need to remind them of that. Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
The next one we have from our DMS, it says,
how do I recover professionally if I cry at work,
especially in front of my colleagues or my boss. The
embarrassment is overwhelming and I'm worried it to damage my
reputation permanently. What's the best way to bounce back from
this kind of vulnerable moment in a professional setting?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well as someone who has cried extensively in the workplace,
what advice do you have to offer cry more?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
No, because all my workplace advice when I first started
my career came from my mum, who works in the
corporate sector. And my mom is one of those people.
She's so warm and gentle and soft and emotional personally,
and then when I see her at work, it's a
completely different person. And I love that and I wanted
to be that. And one thing that she gave me
(12:04):
advice for was don't cry at work, Like, just don't
really do it. And I'm like, It makes sense because
she's come from this corporate sector, like an immigrant who
has to like build her stuff up in this sector
that's full of men who are older than her, who
went to different universities, who has been in this country
for much longer than she has. So I completely understood
where she was coming from from that device. So my
(12:26):
first go at my career, I just never showed any
emotion at all. And then something happened.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Imagine it was crazy, weird. It was weird.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It was like so unlike me. And I'd always just
cried home or cry before work.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And then come in there's a lot of crying.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
He super healthy habits, just.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Like where you do it, that's the key.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And then one time I was in a performance review,
and I have talked about how performance reviews can be
so emotionally driven because you're literally trying to talk yourself
up and prove to someone that you deserve more. And
it's like it's such an intimate conversation you're having in
a place that's not intimate at all. And I remember
(13:04):
I was going, and I do this, and I do this,
and I do this, and I just started crying. And
I manage her at the time. She didn't even flinch. Yeah,
And I was like, I'm so sorry, I'm crying. And
she's like, oh, everyone cries.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
What's fun? And I was like, move on.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
What And I do think that's the benefit of working
in a workplace like Mama mea where you're not felt
like you have to hide your emotions. Like if it
comes out, it comes out, take some deep breaths, get
a tissue box, and then move on with the conversation.
And I think a lot of women in particular, and
it is genetically proven, we are highly emotional that when
you are speaking with passion or with anger, like tears
(13:41):
might fall. Like tears will fall, and that just shows
how passionate you are about the job. If it was
just a one off, take some deep breaths, it happens,
people do. You might just not see it happening, but
it does happen, and give yourself some grace.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Oh absolutely. And I think that even probably the most senior,
together incredible people have had things along the way that
have felt embarrassing and life ending at the time. But
I always come back to the idea of if you're
this concerned about it damaging your reputation, just get in
front of it. Get in front of the narrative instead
(14:15):
of sort of worrying, who saw, what do they think?
Why do they think it happened? Is undermining my power?
It can as a woman. That's really unfortunate that sometimes
us being emotional isn't seen as a superpower that it is.
It's seen as making us weak or like, oh god,
she's so emotional, she can't make decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Which is so annoying that that's still the narrative.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It is so annoying, and I think that's an institutional
thing that we still need to work to change, and
hiding the tears is not the answer to that. But
I think if it was in front of a particular person,
just sit down with them. I think just say, look,
I'm really sorry that I cried the other day, or
I just want to give you some context to why
that happened. Because if you can come back to them
(14:54):
in a non emotional state and show that you can
objectively talk about that event and say I was highly
exhausted that day, like give some context around it, that's
the best way you can p take your reputation, because
then the last interaction they remember about the crying is
you taking control of it. They don't remember you being
hysterical and then sweeping it under the rug. But there's
also humor, Like that's a big deflection point to just
(15:17):
be like, oh guys, wow, after my meant to be
this morning, Moving right along, there are ways for you
to bring it up again. You're just sobbing, you're like
sorry something, yeah, yeah, like guys, sorry, you know how
like I had like a splinter in my other morning. Anyway,
moving right along, like, there are lots of ways to
revisit it and sort of change people's perception of it
that aren't shying away from it. I feel like that
(15:38):
almost takes more power away from you because the only
person who's being eaten up by that is you. Yeah.
Having said that, though, there have definitely been rooms where
it would be so highly inappropriate to cry, which is
again unfortunate, but like in court, for example, oh my god,
yes you can't proceedings, babe. But I think in some cases,
(16:04):
if you you know, haven't cried yet but you feel
it coming on, absolutely excuse yourself. Just say I'm sorry,
I just need to excuse myself. And sometimes you can't
prevent when emotions will hit you. But you can control
where they are released. And if you don't feel like
you're in a place where it is going to be
appropriate or be interpreted well, or it's just not the
(16:25):
right time and place, then absolutely just excuse yourself. No
one needs to know. Why. Take yourself off to the
bathroom and then regroup there.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Oh, good luck, Okay. Our last question of the day.
How do I make sure someone gives me credit for
my hard work? When my boss keeps taking ownership of
my ideas, I'll present something in a meeting and later
(16:52):
hear him pitching it as his own comment. It's happening repeatedly,
and I'm starting to feel invisible.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I think this is common, do you? I think so,
Maybe not even on purpose, but I think sometimes you
might put something forward, planting the seat of an idea,
and then in a bigger meeting it's sort of we've
come up with this thing, or I've come up with
this thing, and you're sitting there like, who who came
up with that thing? Yeah, I feel like that's quite common.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I am so the opposite of this, to the point
where even if it was my idea, I'll be like, oh,
but this person helped me. Oh with this person helped me.
There's this one thing that's been stuck in my mind
for like the last few weeks. For Beers, I interviewed
Sarah Harden, who's the CEO of Hello Sunshine. After the interview,
she was like, those were such good questions, and I
said thank you so much. And immediately after she went
(17:40):
off fine, I was like, I produce a sofa those
questions and she'll never know.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And now it's just call her back.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I'm just taking credit for all of Soaph's hard work
and all her questions. And how do I get that
message across to Sarah Harden?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
To you? So you sent her a DM literally, like Sarah,
I felt so bad for me.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Taking credit for someone else's work purposely just seems like
such a bizarre concept because it feels like you will
get found out.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
See. I think that in certain very competitive landscapes, right,
it's not even that people might be doing it on purpose,
but they're not going to volunteer your name rather than
just presenting the idea. I have had many situations where
I'm like, not that someone has necessarily taken my idea,
but where I'm like, I want that managing partner to
(18:25):
know that that was me, because you want your name
to be recognized, because you want people to know, especially
if it's a really good idea. It's not that someone
stole it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
It's just that you might want, like a promotional worthy idea.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I think that's it. We're all vying for the same promotions.
And if you are constantly getting overlooked because no one
knows which parts are yours, there are some subtle ways
to make sure that people know. Like how it's sort
of like the equivalent of saying per my last email, right,
Like you know, when you want someone to remember that
they were the one who told you something and you
(18:57):
reattach the last email and say per your last email.
It's kind of like that. So if I really want
someone to know that it was my idea, I will
forward the email, copy people on, oh that's smart, you know.
I'd be like, dear blahs, and then I'd copy the
person who I wanted to see that it was me.
I have researched this part of the idea, and I
think that I would like to present blah. And then
I'm like, now everyone knows now at the source, everyone
(19:18):
knows that with me, so it doesn't matter what happens
to this later, they know that this original idea came
from me, So it's kind of like creating like a
traceable chain of evidence of who did the work. But
if you've already done all that, you've missed the chance,
and then in the meeting that kind of is taken
away from you. There are lots of ways that you
can say yeah. For example, when I was researching this,
I really found this part interesting. Sometimes it feels painful,
(19:40):
but you do have to insert yourself, yeah, I like
that owner and be like I'm not saying that was
my idea, but I am kind of implying by saying yeah.
When I was reading that article before I mentioned it. Like,
there are small ways that you can just be like, hey, everyone.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
That's so true, Or like if your boss is presenting
an idea to like a group of people, knowing that
it's your idea, you can even interrupt them and be like, yes, Josh,
I remember when I told you that, Yeah, so much together.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
That's what I mean, though, like, not do it like
that abruptly. It's almost like when you're networking and you're like,
I'm never going to break the circle, Like I'm trying
to break into that circle over there because I want
to talk to that person. No one's going to invite you.
You just have to walk up. It's the same here.
I feel like if you're in a boardroom and someone
is talking to your idea and you're not getting any acknowledgment,
you do just have to find a way to insert
(20:28):
a sentence that shows that you were involved in it.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, brutal, brutal, but you've got.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
To do it hard, awkward. But if that's how you
need to take ownership of it, that's how you do it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And you have to get that bank.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
No one is going to do it for you. No
one is going to say, by the way, we're going
to take it from you. I'm going to take it
from you. And so I seriously think you've got to
get the balls if you really want it to be
known that it was you, and just say in the
conversation when we were researching this together or when I
presented that to you, I was And I know it
feels awful, but then everyone will know.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Oh my god, good luck. I can't wait. I can't
wait for you to throw down with your boss. Thank
you so much for helping us tackle another biz inbox.
Please keep sending your questions our way. They can be
as juicy as possible. They don't have to be fully
like work work specific like. They can be a bit
like lifestyle and specific that intersex.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
With your world, work life balance, work dating. One that
was a personal slash work.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, whatever you want, we're here to answer them. We'll
put a link in our show notes for you to
do so.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It also doesn't have to be that juicy if you
want to chat like we shoes are more comfortable to
be in transit from the transport to the work office.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
We also have a newsletter, a very very free newsletter
that you.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Very very free. It's very free.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So the fact that not all of you want this
is value. So if you want like a whole bunch
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just sign up and you get it to your inbox
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Speaker 1 (21:52):
And all our past episodes are waiting in your feet.
If you need to catch up on workplace wisdom, we'll
be back next week with more career chaos to untangle
and hopefully some juicy stuff. If you guys are going
to drop it in for us, I hope so, but
in
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
You're listening to Amma Mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome back to biz Inbox. I'm m Vernon
and this is your HR free zone. Do not tell
our HR department. Here at Mama Mia, where we tackle
all your workplace dilemmas. We give you hard and fast answers.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And I'm Sarah Davison, lawyer turned entrepreneur and now yupper,
ready to dive into whatever workplace chaos that you guys
have sent our way.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And of course, if you want to submit any questions
for dilemmas, we want them all the juicy of the better.
We always say, we had one about hooking up in
an office. We had one about after workplace anxiety from drinking.
So good, How good was that?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Such a goodie.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And you can remain completely anonymous when I hear a
your dirty laundry when I here to message your bosses
on LinkedIn, we just want to give you the answers
because we find your seems very interesting and we want.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
To help out m Today we're helping someone whose boss
keeps claiming credit for their hard work. Oh my gosh,
that is so annoying, because apparently idea theft is well
and truly alive in Australian officers. And we're also talking
about bouncing back from one of those mortifying moments that
we've all had, crying at work and wondering if your
career or at least your reputation is over. I have
(01:28):
credit work so many times. I love crying our eye.
It's just make you cry right now.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, it makes sense to cry on company time, like
at least.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Get paid for. But first, we're diving into a workplace
dynamic that's becoming more common than you'd think, and it's
all about age, authority and earning respect when the odds
feel stacked against you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
This actually reminds me. Have you seen the ATO just
drop their annual list of Australia's highest paying jaded?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Fascinating?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh my god. Okay, so we have some jobs here listed.
So surgeons are still absolutely dominating the country. They're earning
around four hundred and seventy two thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Who did you think was next? I should have made you.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Get yeah, okay, in my head.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I thought medical or medical financial.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And honestly I want the medicals to be at the
top one hundred. You're actually saving life with that you're actually.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean, we are also saving lives producer.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I could be up there.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We're answering the heavy hidden questions. Okay, we don't.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Even count that high. Like me, trying to read that
number took a really long time concentration.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You are holding up the workplaces of Australia in your
own way. Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I wanted to see this one though. Like financial dealers
at three hundred and fifty five thousand dollars, what is
a financial dealer?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I don't know what that is. I think it means
people in finance, like people brokering financial deals, like brokery.
Is that adjacent? Yeah? Not really. I mean it pays
to be creative about your title.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Right, it pays to be creative. But I find this
so interesting because I feel like there's been so many
studies of people asking kids what they want to be
when they grow up, and back in the day, Back
in my day, it was always like astronaut, doctor lawyer,
and that would like his Cowboys plays Cowboys and that
would like influencer YouTuber. And I feel like now we're
going to start seeing like the different careers and seeing
(03:28):
this is how I feel like generations do become contentious
with each other. Yeah, and what they want to do
in careers and how they want to be paid for
their chosen line of work. And I'm just finding like
these stats so so interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, I also think that what doesn't make the annual
list of highest paying jobs is the self employed. Yes,
so there are influencers out there who are absolutely dominating
beyond four hundred and seventy two thousand dollars a year.
Oh my god, but that's not a salary, so that
wouldn't be on the list.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh my god, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Right, so we could do this, so we they were
already doing this. Well, doctors watching cannot confer more deny
our salaries for this podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Who had become influencer doctors. That means we'll just be
like billionaires.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Guys in my sixteen years after we finished it.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Bitches, no want to become an influencer doctor.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, let's ned by mama, Mia Colin. You're like, jolly doctor.
Oh my god, we'd be so good.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
We could do this, but for like doctors who want advice.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
No, I feel like it would be for like people
who have weird medical issues, like the rash that they
got that they don't want to go. We'd be so qualified,
and we'd be really discreet, and we wouldn't laugh.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
We'd be so good at that. Okay, our first question,
let's get into it. We got this question from Emma,
who emailed us saying, I'm a millennial who's just been
promoted to manage a team of boomers. God, the generational
gap feels massive. They seem to question my authority and
I'm struggling to connect with their work style. Any tips
(05:02):
for bridging this divide and earning their respect.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I feel like this is increasingly common.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Where have you ever managed someone older than you?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh, that's a good question. Have I no, Because in
the workplace I started in so in my corporate career,
I left before I got too senior, and then we
ran our own businesses and oh, well, I guess my husband,
but not in terms of inside our business. Okay, yeah,
I guess it's really been us and then teams of juniors.
(05:32):
So I've never had this problem, but I repeatedly hear
of how commonly it occurs, and I think it has
always occurred. But it's more that the generational approach to
workplace etiquette and attitudes and work structure has never been
so different, so I don't think the clashes would have
been the same as they are now. I there'd always
be a problem with authority that comes with age, but
(05:54):
now I think it also comes with the sort of
younger generation's approach to work that would make it really difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It's so interesting because I feel like I'm in that
generation now. I'm not a manager, and I've talked loudly
about how I shouldn't be a manager. But a lot
of my friends are now at that age where at
that age where a lot of them are starting to
manage people older than them, not really boomers, but more
younger millennials managing Gen X, and my friends are so
(06:23):
so nervous, like they are trying so hard to be
approachable but also have that authority, and a lot of
them are saying that it's really hard to manage people
older than you because they don't want to be managed
by someone younger than them, and they find like they're
the hardest people to manage, like compared to everyone else
(06:43):
who are their same age or younger. It's the ones
that they have to manage who are older, who have
been in the workforce for much longer than they have
who are trying to like also insert their authority over them,
and it just becomes this massive clash. And I just
feel like when it comes to jobs, you just have
to remove everyone's ages because you're going to go crazy.
(07:05):
And it's not just in management. I think this also
comes down to salaries. When you find out someone younger
than you has a bigger salary than you, you do
go a bit instane, like you are like, but when
I was her age, I was on this salary, So
how is it working out? And I think age in
the workplace is something that has to just be completely
removed from everyone's mind.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, and it is so hard when the gap is
so wide that like it's impossible to ignore when you're
in person. But I think the way you worded the question, Emma,
is where the power of your answer is. I think
that it is all about bridging the divide and earning
their respect. And this doesn't come from experience, obviously, but
(07:45):
I do think that any time you come up against
even if it's not age, anytime you come up against
a difference with someone in the workplace, before you can
influence them in any way, you do need them to
appreciate you. You do need them to value your opinion
before they'll even hear what it is. And my strategy
for doing that not in a workplace, but in business.
(08:06):
I've many times found myself at pitching at a table
where I'm the youngest or I'm the only woman, so
it's different but similar, and i know I'm not going
to be heard until they respect what I'm saying or
my right to be there. And it sounds silly, but
my trick has always been to emulate what I think
they will respect. And even though I'm like, you don't
(08:26):
need a change who you are, like, you know, make
your own mark, be an individual, I do also think
that there is something to be said for leaning into
what you know they respect and kind of copying that
until you get on their level and then hitting them
with the different things that are more from your generation.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So that's such good advice.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
For example, in theory, if I want to go to
a pitch dressed in not a suit and in really
you know, fun, sparkly clothes, and you know I have
every right to do that. Our generation appreciates that my
talent isn't undermined by what I wear. But if I'm
going to pitch to a much older generation of serious
men who have operated in a very different workplace environment,
(09:06):
soonest of my life, I'm going to dress appropriately. Some
people would be like, don't let anyone know your sparkle,
But then I'm like, but the reality is I want
to be heard. I want to be heard. Why would
I not give myself the best chance. So I kind
of think putting on a skin that's going to allow
you to get on that level at least while you're
building trust, Like, don't go straight in with your sparkly,
(09:28):
fluffy outfits. That can come build. And it's the same
with any relationship. You wouldn't come into any relationship showing
your absolute wildest full colors in the beginning. You do
gently kind of unravel that, And I think there will
be some like activists out there who are like, no,
you should never have to wear a suit and tie
just to fit in. But I do think you have to. Yeah,
(09:49):
you do have to maybe a little bit play again
to get there, and then once you've got their respect,
once you get there, they won't care what you're wearing. Yeah,
it's just the very early days.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I would also say for our generation, like younger millennials,
older gen Z I personally get being liked versus being
respected quite confused. So just make sure that you don't
have to like your manager, but you have to respect them,
and just know the difference between that, because it's so
easy to want everyone to like you like it's so
easy to fall into that loop. But I think now
(10:20):
that you're a manager and to first time managing older
people notice the difference because if they respect you, that's
literally all you need.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah. Yeah, they don't have to be a best friend,
and in fact, it's probably better if you don't like
my My default to trying to disarm people is to
be warm and fuzzy and make you like me, but
often that undermines the respect that you get as a leader.
So sometimes it is like to a group of millennial sure,
I'd go and hug them and get coffees and want
to go on mail dates. To a group of boomer
(10:49):
staff members, I wouldn't suggest let's go on a nail
date for one day because I feel like that wouldn't
add to the respect that you read the room a
little bit on how you approach what they respond too well,
and most of the time it will come back to
how good your work is. Yeah, So the more you
can show them that that you are good at what
you do.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, you're in that job for a reason.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, and you just need to remind them of that. Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
The next one we have from our DMS, it says,
how do I recover professionally if I cry at work,
especially in front of my colleagues or my boss. The
embarrassment is overwhelming and I'm worried it to damage my
reputation permanently. What's the best way to bounce back from
this kind of vulnerable moment in a professional setting?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Well as someone who has cried extensively in the workplace,
what advice do you have to offer cry more?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
No, because all my workplace advice when I first started
my career came from my mum, who works in the
corporate sector. And my mom is one of those people.
She's so warm and gentle and soft and emotional personally,
and then when I see her at work, it's a
completely different person. And I love that and I wanted
to be that. And one thing that she gave me
(12:04):
advice for was don't cry at work, Like, just don't
really do it. And I'm like, It makes sense because
she's come from this corporate sector, like an immigrant who
has to like build her stuff up in this sector
that's full of men who are older than her, who
went to different universities, who has been in this country
for much longer than she has. So I completely understood
where she was coming from from that device. So my
(12:26):
first go at my career, I just never showed any
emotion at all. And then something happened.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Imagine it was crazy, weird. It was weird.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It was like so unlike me. And I'd always just
cried home or cry before work.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And then come in there's a lot of crying.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
He super healthy habits, just.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Like where you do it, that's the key.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And then one time I was in a performance review,
and I have talked about how performance reviews can be
so emotionally driven because you're literally trying to talk yourself
up and prove to someone that you deserve more. And
it's like it's such an intimate conversation you're having in
a place that's not intimate at all. And I remember
(13:04):
I was going, and I do this, and I do this,
and I do this, and I just started crying. And
I manage her at the time. She didn't even flinch. Yeah,
And I was like, I'm so sorry, I'm crying. And
she's like, oh, everyone cries.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
What's fun? And I was like, move on.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
What And I do think that's the benefit of working
in a workplace like Mama mea where you're not felt
like you have to hide your emotions. Like if it
comes out, it comes out, take some deep breaths, get
a tissue box, and then move on with the conversation.
And I think a lot of women in particular, and
it is genetically proven, we are highly emotional that when
you are speaking with passion or with anger, like tears
(13:41):
might fall. Like tears will fall, and that just shows
how passionate you are about the job. If it was
just a one off, take some deep breaths, it happens,
people do. You might just not see it happening, but
it does happen, and give yourself some grace.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Oh absolutely. And I think that even probably the most senior,
together incredible people have had things along the way that
have felt embarrassing and life ending at the time. But
I always come back to the idea of if you're
this concerned about it damaging your reputation, just get in
front of it. Get in front of the narrative instead
(14:15):
of sort of worrying, who saw, what do they think?
Why do they think it happened? Is undermining my power?
It can as a woman. That's really unfortunate that sometimes
us being emotional isn't seen as a superpower that it is.
It's seen as making us weak or like, oh god,
she's so emotional, she can't make decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Which is so annoying that that's still the narrative.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It is so annoying, and I think that's an institutional
thing that we still need to work to change, and
hiding the tears is not the answer to that. But
I think if it was in front of a particular person,
just sit down with them. I think just say, look,
I'm really sorry that I cried the other day, or
I just want to give you some context to why
that happened. Because if you can come back to them
(14:54):
in a non emotional state and show that you can
objectively talk about that event and say I was highly
exhausted that day, like give some context around it, that's
the best way you can p take your reputation, because
then the last interaction they remember about the crying is
you taking control of it. They don't remember you being
hysterical and then sweeping it under the rug. But there's
also humor, Like that's a big deflection point to just
(15:17):
be like, oh guys, wow, after my meant to be
this morning, Moving right along, there are ways for you
to bring it up again. You're just sobbing, you're like
sorry something, yeah, yeah, like guys, sorry, you know how
like I had like a splinter in my other morning. Anyway,
moving right along, like, there are lots of ways to
revisit it and sort of change people's perception of it
that aren't shying away from it. I feel like that
(15:38):
almost takes more power away from you because the only
person who's being eaten up by that is you. Yeah.
Having said that, though, there have definitely been rooms where
it would be so highly inappropriate to cry, which is
again unfortunate, but like in court, for example, oh my god,
yes you can't proceedings, babe. But I think in some cases,
(16:04):
if you you know, haven't cried yet but you feel
it coming on, absolutely excuse yourself. Just say I'm sorry,
I just need to excuse myself. And sometimes you can't
prevent when emotions will hit you. But you can control
where they are released. And if you don't feel like
you're in a place where it is going to be
appropriate or be interpreted well, or it's just not the
(16:25):
right time and place, then absolutely just excuse yourself. No
one needs to know. Why. Take yourself off to the
bathroom and then regroup there.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Oh, good luck, Okay. Our last question of the day.
How do I make sure someone gives me credit for
my hard work? When my boss keeps taking ownership of
my ideas, I'll present something in a meeting and later
(16:52):
hear him pitching it as his own comment. It's happening repeatedly,
and I'm starting to feel invisible.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I think this is common, do you? I think so,
Maybe not even on purpose, but I think sometimes you
might put something forward, planting the seat of an idea,
and then in a bigger meeting it's sort of we've
come up with this thing, or I've come up with
this thing, and you're sitting there like, who who came
up with that thing? Yeah, I feel like that's quite common.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I am so the opposite of this, to the point
where even if it was my idea, I'll be like, oh,
but this person helped me. Oh with this person helped me.
There's this one thing that's been stuck in my mind
for like the last few weeks. For Beers, I interviewed
Sarah Harden, who's the CEO of Hello Sunshine. After the interview,
she was like, those were such good questions, and I
said thank you so much. And immediately after she went
(17:40):
off fine, I was like, I produce a sofa those
questions and she'll never know.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And now it's just call her back.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I'm just taking credit for all of Soaph's hard work
and all her questions. And how do I get that
message across to Sarah Harden?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
To you? So you sent her a DM literally, like Sarah,
I felt so bad for me.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Taking credit for someone else's work purposely just seems like
such a bizarre concept because it feels like you will
get found out.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
See. I think that in certain very competitive landscapes, right,
it's not even that people might be doing it on purpose,
but they're not going to volunteer your name rather than
just presenting the idea. I have had many situations where
I'm like, not that someone has necessarily taken my idea,
but where I'm like, I want that managing partner to
(18:25):
know that that was me, because you want your name
to be recognized, because you want people to know, especially
if it's a really good idea. It's not that someone
stole it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
It's just that you might want, like a promotional worthy idea.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I think that's it. We're all vying for the same promotions.
And if you are constantly getting overlooked because no one
knows which parts are yours, there are some subtle ways
to make sure that people know. Like how it's sort
of like the equivalent of saying per my last email, right,
Like you know, when you want someone to remember that
they were the one who told you something and you
(18:57):
reattach the last email and say per your last email.
It's kind of like that. So if I really want
someone to know that it was my idea, I will
forward the email, copy people on, oh that's smart, you know.
I'd be like, dear blahs, and then I'd copy the
person who I wanted to see that it was me.
I have researched this part of the idea, and I
think that I would like to present blah. And then
I'm like, now everyone knows now at the source, everyone
(19:18):
knows that with me, so it doesn't matter what happens
to this later, they know that this original idea came
from me, So it's kind of like creating like a
traceable chain of evidence of who did the work. But
if you've already done all that, you've missed the chance,
and then in the meeting that kind of is taken
away from you. There are lots of ways that you
can say yeah. For example, when I was researching this,
I really found this part interesting. Sometimes it feels painful,
(19:40):
but you do have to insert yourself, yeah, I like
that owner and be like I'm not saying that was
my idea, but I am kind of implying by saying yeah.
When I was reading that article before I mentioned it. Like,
there are small ways that you can just be like, hey, everyone.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
That's so true, Or like if your boss is presenting
an idea to like a group of people, knowing that
it's your idea, you can even interrupt them and be like, yes, Josh,
I remember when I told you that, Yeah, so much together.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
That's what I mean, though, like, not do it like
that abruptly. It's almost like when you're networking and you're like,
I'm never going to break the circle, Like I'm trying
to break into that circle over there because I want
to talk to that person. No one's going to invite you.
You just have to walk up. It's the same here.
I feel like if you're in a boardroom and someone
is talking to your idea and you're not getting any acknowledgment,
you do just have to find a way to insert
(20:28):
a sentence that shows that you were involved in it.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, brutal, brutal, but you've got.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
To do it hard, awkward. But if that's how you
need to take ownership of it, that's how you do it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And you have to get that bank.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
No one is going to do it for you. No
one is going to say, by the way, we're going
to take it from you. I'm going to take it
from you. And so I seriously think you've got to
get the balls if you really want it to be
known that it was you, and just say in the
conversation when we were researching this together or when I
presented that to you, I was And I know it
feels awful, but then everyone will know.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Oh my god, good luck. I can't wait. I can't
wait for you to throw down with your boss. Thank
you so much for helping us tackle another biz inbox.
Please keep sending your questions our way. They can be
as juicy as possible. They don't have to be fully
like work work specific like. They can be a bit
like lifestyle and specific that intersex.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
With your world, work life balance, work dating. One that
was a personal slash work.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, whatever you want, we're here to answer them. We'll
put a link in our show notes for you to
do so.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It also doesn't have to be that juicy if you
want to chat like we shoes are more comfortable to
be in transit from the transport to the work office.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
We also have a newsletter, a very very free newsletter
that you.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Very very free. It's very free.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So the fact that not all of you want this
is value. So if you want like a whole bunch
of information from everything we talk about on biz, we'll
put a link to that in our show notes. You
just sign up and you get it to your inbox
every week.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
And all our past episodes are waiting in your feet.
If you need to catch up on workplace wisdom, we'll
be back next week with more career chaos to untangle
and hopefully some juicy stuff. If you guys are going
to drop it in for us, I hope so, but
in
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
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