September 24, 2025 • 26 mins
Lying on your resume when everyone else seems to be getting ahead? Struggling with reference dilemmas when your boss left on bad terms? Or maybe you've accidentally discovered your company's secret layoff plans and don't know whether to warn your colleagues?
This week, we're diving into resume ethics, reference nightmares, and the ultimate workplace moral dilemma in our season finale.
What you'll learn:
• Resume Ethics Reality Check: Why changing your job title from "Marketing Intern" to "Marketing Coordinator" crosses the line from embellishment to lying, plus how to showcase expanded responsibilities without fabricating your actual role
• Reference Dilemma Solutions: Navigating tricky reference situations when bosses leave badly, whether you can use junior colleagues as references, and how to politely decline being someone's reference when they weren't great at their job
• The Ultimate Workplace Bombshell: What to do when you accidentally discover massive layoffs are coming while your colleagues are buying houses and planning weddings - should you warn them and risk your career, or stay silent?
Plus: A follow-up on sick leave rights - why Australian employees are never legally required to find their own replacement when calling in sick, even if it's written into their contract.
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your go-to workplace advice podcast where awkward career questions get real-world solutions.
Got office politics nightmares or boss-from-hell situations? Send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain completely anonymous!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome back to Biz Inbox.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm a Burnam and I'm Sarah Davidson, and today we're
talking about resume ethics, specifically when everyone around you seems
to be bending the truth and getting ahead because of it.
Oh my god, that is an absolute toughye.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Plus, we are going to be solving some reference dilemmas.
We've talked about references a few times in Biz Inbox.
We've got a big one today because this one will
make you a question everything you thought you knew about
the process, including what to do when people who should
vouch for you don't.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And we are finishing with an absolute bombshell. Somebody has
accidentally stumbled onto information that could change their colleagues lives forever,
but sharing it could destroy their own career. Oh my gosh,
it's a biz Inbox puzzle and I can't wait to
get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So inducing this will be our best question for the
whole season. But before we jump into the questions today,
so we have a follow up from our episode about
calling in sick. If you haven't listened to that episode,
we'll put a link to it in our show notes.
And this is what Fiona has responded with.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hi, mamamir Biz, I have just listened to the episode
about calling in sick, and I have another follow up question.
My daughter works for a small business as a dance teacher,
and the owner of the business enforces a rule that
anybody who's sick must find a replacement for themselves, otherwise
(01:45):
they need to come in and teach the class. And
I'm just wondering about the legality or what the industry
relations says in this regard. Is it the staff member's
responsibility if that's written into contract for themselves to find
a replacement if they're unwell, or is it the business
(02:05):
owner's responsibility?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh oh. I mean, if one person to us have
to give Lee your advice, it's not going to be me,
I'm telling you right now.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, firstly, I mean, we love an audio submission. I
am so sad that it took until the season finale
to get one of these, But guys, please send more
of these in because we will be back at some
point to answer them for you. Fiona, this is a
really tough situation and very very common, I think for
employees to feel a bit disempowered when it comes to
(02:38):
businesses just enforcing rules and you feeling like you don't
necessarily have the right to question it. But absolutely, in Australia,
the legal responsibility to find a replacement when you call
in sick does not fall on the employee, even if
her business, your daughter's business, sounds like they are trying
to enforce that. This is governed by the Fair Work
(03:00):
Act two thousand and nine. If you want to go
and look further into the reference. When an employee is
generally sick or injured, they're entitled to paid personal or
cares leave and they do not have a legal obligation
to find someone to cover their shift. And that's if
they're a permanent employee. So of course, yes, you do
have to notify your employer as soon as possible. They
(03:21):
can request reasonable evidence like a medical certificate, but you
are not legally required to find a replacement. Now, it
is the case that some workplaces have their own internal
policies or informal expectations around finding replacements that they might
communicate to you. For example, in a small business, if
there's not very many of you, they kind of might
(03:42):
suggest that you could help find or maybe contact someone
else to cover the shift, especially if it's a more
casual or roster based work, like I know in a
lot of hospitality businesses, they might ask if you could
call around to some of your colleagues. But even if
there are employment contracts that say otherwise or kind of
have additional provisions that require that of you, they can't
(04:02):
override the minimum standards in that fair work app So
even if your employer expects it, they cannot legally require
it as a condition for you getting your sick leave.
So if you do need further help with that, you could,
of course let them know. But if you need any
further help, there are some amazing official sources like the
Fair Work Ombitsman who can help you further to sort
(04:24):
of help you feel equipped to deal with going back
to your boss.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Oh my god, what great advice, Fiona. What I want
you to do right now is take this biz episode
and just play it to your employer. Actually play it
in front of the whole company.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Just play my voice to them, say here's my lawyer,
here's my lawyer.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Take it away, Sarah, and then just.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Play literally this is a personal voice note that she
sent me on her build time.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh I love love love that advice. Good luck, Fiona,
and know you're right girl. Okay, speaking of workplace rules
that make you question everything, I want to dive into
our first question. It's all about the unspoken rules of
resume writing and whether we should be playing by them.
So Meg dm us this and it's literally got me
(05:14):
questioning everything I know about resume honesty. So she says,
I just finished a marketing internship where I was basically
doing coordinator level work, running campaigns, presenting to clients everything.
My official title was marketing intern, but that sounds so
junior compared to what I actually did. Job titles are
completely made up anyway, And if recruiters are searching for
(05:36):
marketing coordinator, not marketing intern, why should I miss out
on opportunities because of some arbitrary label. My friends have
definitely lied about their titles before and nothing happened. Isn't
this just speaking the recruiters language, rather than being held
back by a title I didn't even choose?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Great question, I want to say.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I feel like a lot of titles are basically just labels.
I have seen people get away with like a little
edit on their job title on a LinkedIn page or
on a resume and they've gotten away with it. The
only thing that I feel like might burn you is
if you are applying for jobs at a new company
and you change your title on it, but you have
(06:21):
references from people at your current company who can vouch
for you. I feel like that might go a bit
left sided if you push that agenda and they call
your references and they're like, oh, she was an intern,
she wasn't a coordinator. Like even though it's just something
so small and minute, as someone who's like recruiting you,
(06:42):
if you hear that and the first thing they hear
is like a straight up lie, that will give a
bad taste of them, and then you try and explain
that to them after they find out, we'll just feel
like you're just covering for yourself. So I feel like
you just have to be really, really careful in those situations.
If you're actively looking for a job.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I feel like it is expected
that most people are embellishing to them maximum capacity that
you have. Like, of course, the resume is putting your
best foot forward, so you're going to be delivering it
in the most positive light that you can. But I
think there is a very clear delineation between embellishment and
(07:20):
then actually editing the truth of the role that you had.
Like I think in the description of what you do,
you can drum up what you've been doing. But I
think downright, just changing the role that you had, like
literally changing the title and position that you occupied in
that role, strays into that's not true. Like there's a
(07:42):
difference between the scale of what you did versus what
it was actually called. And I think if it strays
into yeah, like you said, if it's a strays into
a lie, then it's unethical. Whereas if you're just talking up,
you know, the responsibilities that you had and expressing them
in the most positive language that you can, I think
that's different. Like I've been a serial resume patterer my
(08:03):
entire life. I have always wanted to put my best
foot forward and show the breadth of the different things
that I've done. But if it came to actually changing
the title of one of those opportunities or roles, that's
where I would draw the line, particularly because you can
get caught out. But even if you can't, I feel
like it's just not the role you had.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, that's so true. And I also feel like if
you're applying to roles and you're saying that you're a
marketing intern but you're doing a coordinator level role, you
can still apply for those marketing coordinator roles. Like, there
are a lot of companies that want to invest in
junior talent to help build them up so they can
like learn on their job and then reach new heights.
And I feel like you're still within your right to
(08:41):
completely apply for those roles if you believe that you
can do them. Don't feel like that your label as
an intern is kind of like a red mark, Like
it's not. In fact, it's like such a good way
to like show companies that you're willing to go above
and beyond your job title, which is exactly what you did,
and that you can show that off in your resume.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You can also use the description.
Often you will have a cover letter when you're applying,
and that's the context where you can say, my position
was technically intern, but I was given an extraordinary level
of responsibility. And this you know, you can elaborate in
other places, but I think just to assume that because
your responsibilities were greater than your role, that you're allowed
(09:22):
to just change the name of the role is probably
where it becomes a little bit if he.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Our next question is about job references, which I feel
like goes hand in hand with resumes, but I feel
like it's one of the ones that we get most
asked about, like actual references. So we got this email
by Riley and it basically asks every single reference question
you've ever had, So it's going to be a meaty one.
She says, I have so many questions about references, and
(09:54):
I'm honestly confused about the whole process. My boss left
on really bad terms, and now I'm the only manager left.
Everyone else is below me in the hierarchy. Should I
ask my old boss even though she left badly? Can
I ask someone who's technically junior to me? Now? And
when someone asks me to be their reference, how do
I politely say no if they weren't actually good at
(10:15):
their job? Also, what's the protocol? Do I send them
the specific job description I'm applying for or just ask
if they'll be a general reference? How will I even
test if someone will be a good reference for me? Oh?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
We need an episode on references for this question?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Oh my god, Raley, you're going through a reference spiral or.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Really good questions, though I think really common really.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Good questions are references are something that I haven't thought
about in years. I'm also quite offended then no one's
ever asked me to be a reference to them.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Look, I think to address the first part about your
boss leaving on really bad terms, that's a really difficult one,
but I think it really depends on whether they left
on really bad terms with you or they left on
really bad terms with the company.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Because I was going to.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Say the same thing.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
If they left on really bad terms and it was
nothing to do with your relationship, I think they can
definitely still vouch for you, because the whole point is
that they're speaking to your skill set, and if they're
a reference on your resumes, usually because you're applying somewhere
else that's not the company that they left. So I
think that if they can still speak to your skill
(11:23):
set and they still can vouch for all the things
that you did do in the company, and that's got
nothing to do with their relationship with that company, especially
if you are applying for a third party company, there's
no reason why they can't still be a really good
reference for you, especially if you trust it they won't
go rogue and sort of start speaking badly about the
actual business. I think that depends on the situation of
(11:44):
what those bad terms are. And yes, you should absolutely
still ask them if you do think they can keep
that relationship with the business separate. As for asking someone
who's junior to you, I probably wouldn't recommend that. I'm
sure it's been done, but I think the more authority
and breadth of what someone can speak to about the
(12:05):
way that you you performed your responsibilities, I don't think
it's really the done thing to get that from someone
underneath you. I think it's more to come from a
leadership perspective, and that it would be much stronger if
it did come from an old boss.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, and you also don't need to just get references
from the company or currently working at yas like you
could branch out and ask like a boss from a
different company, or like a coworker who's now been promoted
to a higher level at a different company that you
previously worked at. I feel like so many people think
that it has to be the exact company that you've
come from and going to a new job, and that
(12:39):
is completely untrue. It's just anyone who've ever worked with
in your past who can vouch for you as a
person as well as your work ethic.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah. Absolutely, And that kind of links to the last
part of the question about testing if someone will be
a good reference for you. I think you can gauge
that by the relationship that you have with them, and
also by their general level of eloquence or attention to
detail that they give to the work that they do.
I think you get a sense of who will give
you a really glowing reference who won't. And I would
definitely go you don't want it to be too far
(13:09):
into the past, because I think recruiters do want there
to be some level of currency. But I would go
for the strongest versus the most recent if they weren't
the same person.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, for sure, and definitely give them a heads up,
like you don't want your recruited to be cold calling,
like your coworkers going, hey, do you have fifteen minutes
is spare to talk about this person?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah? And when you give them that heads up, I
would definitely send the specific job description because I would
want them to be speaking to the skills that are
relevant to that job and not just kind of going
on about she's really good at looking after her dog,
she's great at, you know, helping me keill my hair. Like,
not that anyone would go that rogue, but I think
it the more context they have, the better chance they
(13:49):
have to help you in that specific application. And it
could be different for I've got references who have been
my reference for very different kinds of jobs, and them
knowing what the job is helps them tailor what they
say to make it stronger for me as well, because
usually reference wants you to do really well, so you've
got to arm them with the most information that you can.
(14:11):
In a flip situation, when you're asked to be a
reference and you don't feel like you can give a
really good reference, that is a very very difficult question.
But I think it is probably best to say no
rather than to accept and then not really know what
to say, because the expectation is that you're going to
(14:33):
say something lovely. I don't know. I mean I would
probably say something like as a policy, I don't really
give references like. There's probably nice ways to say it
other than I think you were really bad at your job.
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh, it's so so hard if it was someone that
I was like, no, you were a horrible person, a
horror like really really bad, I would say no, I
don't think I'm the best person fit to give you
a reference, and it would be a very hard conversation.
And I feel like it has to be someone that
you're okay with not being like your enemy, I guess
(15:09):
for the rest of your life, like they'll probably hate you.
But if it's someone that I felt like could do
a good job, I'd say yes, and I'd do the reference,
but I'd still be quite honest, Like I wouldn't be
overly glowing and overly enthusiastic about that person. I'll be like,
I'll be quite honest with like the way they work.
Because it's also your reputation on the line, right, Like
(15:32):
it all comes back to you. Like if you give
someone who was like I guess okay a reference, that's
like they're the best person in the world, Like they're
so good at their job, they're going to be amazing,
Versus if you're like, they did their job, they were great.
There were some issues, but overall, I'm glad that I
was able to work with them. I think that is
way better for both of you than lying.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Essentially, if I knew that they expected me to say
something really, really positive and I wasn't able to genuinely
say that and put my name to it, I think
I would have to say no. I wouldn't just say
yes and then not say a nice thing, yes, I'll
do it.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
They were horrible for me.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I personally I wouldn't be able to do that. But
I also I'm not very good at saying no, so
I know it's a really hard one.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's really hard. Okay, I was complaining about no one
asking me to be their reference, but maybe no. Okay,
our final question, I feel like this is the wildest
question we've had in biz inbox history, and I actually
(16:31):
don't know what my advice would be for again, let's go.
It's an anonymous one, so you just know already it's
so wild. I found out my company is planning massive
layoffs in January, but I overheard this by accident in
a meeting I wasn't supposed to be in. My entire
team has no idea, and they're all making big financial decisions,
(16:53):
buying houses, planning weddings. One person just had a baby.
I'm dying inside watching them live their lives without knowing
what's coming up. Do I warn them and risk getting
fired myself? Do I stay quiet and let them get blindsided?
And honestly, should I be job hunting right now even
though I might not be on the list. I feel
like I'm sitting on a bomb and I don't know
(17:14):
what to do with this information.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I am spiraling just hearing this scenario. I'm scared, and
it's such a tough one. Like that is a dilemma,
that is a serious.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Dilimma, actual dilemma. I want to know the like logistics
of how you were in a meeting that you weren't supposed.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
To be yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Like was it the situation where you were in the
meeting and they suddenly realized that we shouldn't be discussing
this with this person in the meeting or was it
like you were on call, or like you overheard it
through like another room or something like that. I think
that can provide the ethics outline of what you should
do next.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I kind of feel like it also depends on what
your level of seniority is as well, because if you
are in like er management, for example, and you were
in the meeting where the layoffs were being planned, and
you're part of that upper strategic management, it kind of
is part of your role to not deliver that news
before the company is going to deliver that news. There's
(18:20):
strategy around that, and there's a reason why upper management
is kept abreast of those plans and why everyone else isn't.
If you're a junior on the same level as everyone
else who is sort of part of that layoff and
who is going to be laid off, there's less of
an expectation that A you're not supposed to know, but
(18:41):
B it's not like a business strategy for you to
keep it a secret. I think it's a little bit different,
Like I think there are much higher expectations of secrecy
on senior management versus everyone else. I personally would find
it really really difficult to not share that information with
people who are making huge financial decisions around me. That's
(19:03):
my internal moral compass. But I also feel like it's confidential,
sort of very sensitive commercial information.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I'm the same, I'd find it really hard to not
tell my coworkers, especially watching them go through massive financial
planning like having a baby, buying houses, planning weddings like
that's like life destroying news. For like those like life moments,
I would almost.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Coffront the company first. I feel I would.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Almost say that, like I would go to that meaning
you weren't supposed to be and like whoever was running
it be like, hey, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah? I would almost Should I be looking for a new.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Job right now? Should I be telling other people?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah? Should people know? Yeah? I kind of feel like
the way to resolve the real tension between this could
also really adversely affect the company and big financial interests
on their level if I say something, and also it
really affects everyone else. The middle ground is let the
company know that you overheard, because you know, guys, that's
your fault that you kind of I didn't keep a
(20:06):
lid on the information, but I have it now and
I don't know what to do. I haven't delivered the
news to everyone else yet, but I feel like it's
out of the bag. You know what's going on, and
then at least you can maybe get some guidance on
how sensitive the information is. Maybe you can give them
a chance to deliver it themselves so you don't have
to be the messenger. But bring forward the timeline because
(20:26):
they know that there's a ticking time bomb. Perhaps it
is a situation where you go to HR and say, look,
I've really I've become aware of this information, and I
feel really conflicted. It's not a decision that you need
to be making on your own. Also, I feel like
this is such big financial interests on both sides on
your shoulders. This is weighing down on just you in
(20:47):
this moment, and no one else knows you're going through it.
I think I would go to the company and say, guys,
I know, so what are you going to do about it?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
And also just like tell them be like this person
planning a wedding, this person just had a baby, this
person is buying houses. You need to tell them right
now before they invest all this money into these big things.
I mean, the baby's like already happened.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So yeah, I think that's what I would do, because
I think if you went straight to your colleagues and
just let it out, you also might not have all
the context of what the redundancy payouts might be. Like
some people might be wanting a redundancy, It could be
something that actually is a massive chunk of a payout.
Some people might be being kept on, so you might
go and deliver the news and saying everyone's being laid off,
(21:28):
and then half of them aren't actually being laid off,
and then you've gone and ruined everyone's lives before. I
think it's probably yeah, best to just confront the company
and clarify the exact facts before you go and deliver
life altering news on your own accord.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Oh my god, I am so interested to find out
what happened. I want this person to email us again
with what they decided to do, and then we can
talk about it for the next season.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I know this is a cliff hanger, a.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Cliff we're leaving on a cliffhanger, but that is a
wrap on our season of Biz Inbox. We wanted to
do a thing I don't know, Sarah. Do you have
your advice ready?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
We wanted to do a thing where we want to
give you a final piece of advice that we want
to leave you with. Mine's more like life advice rather
than yeah, workplace advice, but it developed from the workplace.
And I stole this from Jemima Kirk, who is like
an A List actress. She was in girls, she was
in sex education. She's absolutely brilliant at like advice, it's
(22:26):
do the next thing. And I've used this so much
in my life. I feel like if you have like
mental health issues, if you are a deprocrastinator, I am
both of those things. Doing the next thing has helped
me so much. Like There'll be times where I'm just
sitting at my desk and I'm like, I physically can't
type out a word on my email, and I'll just
(22:47):
be like, Okay, do the next thing. Just read the email,
do the next thing, write the intro to the email,
do the next thing, finish the email, send it. Like
there are so many times, and I feel like this
goes hand in hand when you feel like you're starting
to get burnout in the workplace, When you feel like
that everything just becomes so so hard. Even just taking
lunch break walking outside becomes like the hardest task in
(23:08):
the world. Like do the next thing, Like just get
up from your desk and see what happens. I think
so many people, especially now in today's work climate. We
talked about it on last week's episode, that we're all
job hugging and we're all just trying to go above
and beyond f our jobs because we're so scared to
leave them. At the same time, there are people who
have been struggling to find a job for the longest time,
(23:30):
and it's just this really scary environment that we're in
right now, and I think just taking the next little
step just makes the biggest difference and stops you from
just completely spiraling that I know so many people are
going through right now.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh, that's excellent advice, Am, That's such a good one.
Mine's probably more workplace focused. It's been a recurring theme
through every episode we've done, both A and B, and
I think it's just that no matter what dilemma or
quandary you're facing, you're not alone. We have had so
many of people feeling like it's there alone in their workplace,
(24:06):
that they're the only one who's kind of facing this situation.
Often it's a situation where they feel a bit disempowered
in that workplace. So I think my big message to
everyone would be, you're not alone. So many other people
have faced and overcome the situation that you're in. You're
not expected to deal with this on your own either.
There is so much help and support and resources out there,
(24:27):
and I think particularly as employees, there's often a big
power imbalance between you and your bosses, which makes you
feel like you have to tolerate everything that they throw
you away. And that's not the case. You're not meant
to just suffer through every single thing that someone decides
they want to inflict on you. Of course, there are rules,
and you know, things that do come with authority, but
(24:50):
there are a lot of situations that have been submitted
where you have a lot more power to set boundaries,
a lot more power to demand that you are treated
well and rewarded and appreciated and supported in your workplace.
So there is support out there and none of you
are alone.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's such good advice. That makes me so motion.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
We are here for you.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
We're here for you all the time. But that is
a season wrap on our biz Inbox. We haven't covered
everything from lying about job titles to navigating reference etiquette
and ending with some very serious heavy workplace ethics.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Thank you guys so much for sending us your messiest
worked lemmons all season long and trusting us with those situations.
As I said, we are here for you. Keep them
coming through our show notes link. We will be back
soon with more career chaos to solve for you.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay, so before you go, Yes, Biz Inbox may be
done for this season, but we still have two more
biz apps for you that are coming next week, and honestly,
I'm pretty sure we are going out with our two biggest,
most jam packed episodes. Yes, So on Tuesday, we're diving
into how to give feedback without making everyone want to
crawl under their desk, And on Thursday is our final
(26:02):
Biz Main Show episode where we're unpacking pivot because let's
be real, most of us are going to switch careers
multiple times in our life anyway, so we might as
well figure out how to do it properly. These are
going to be our last episodes for this season, so
do not miss these episodes next week. Bye bye, Mamma
(26:33):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome back to Biz Inbox.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm a Burnam and I'm Sarah Davidson, and today we're
talking about resume ethics, specifically when everyone around you seems
to be bending the truth and getting ahead because of it.
Oh my god, that is an absolute toughye.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Plus, we are going to be solving some reference dilemmas.
We've talked about references a few times in Biz Inbox.
We've got a big one today because this one will
make you a question everything you thought you knew about
the process, including what to do when people who should
vouch for you don't.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And we are finishing with an absolute bombshell. Somebody has
accidentally stumbled onto information that could change their colleagues lives forever,
but sharing it could destroy their own career. Oh my gosh,
it's a biz Inbox puzzle and I can't wait to
get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So inducing this will be our best question for the
whole season. But before we jump into the questions today,
so we have a follow up from our episode about
calling in sick. If you haven't listened to that episode,
we'll put a link to it in our show notes.
And this is what Fiona has responded with.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hi, mamamir Biz, I have just listened to the episode
about calling in sick, and I have another follow up question.
My daughter works for a small business as a dance teacher,
and the owner of the business enforces a rule that
anybody who's sick must find a replacement for themselves, otherwise
(01:45):
they need to come in and teach the class. And
I'm just wondering about the legality or what the industry
relations says in this regard. Is it the staff member's
responsibility if that's written into contract for themselves to find
a replacement if they're unwell, or is it the business
(02:05):
owner's responsibility?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh oh. I mean, if one person to us have
to give Lee your advice, it's not going to be me,
I'm telling you right now.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, firstly, I mean, we love an audio submission. I
am so sad that it took until the season finale
to get one of these, But guys, please send more
of these in because we will be back at some
point to answer them for you. Fiona, this is a
really tough situation and very very common, I think for
employees to feel a bit disempowered when it comes to
(02:38):
businesses just enforcing rules and you feeling like you don't
necessarily have the right to question it. But absolutely, in Australia,
the legal responsibility to find a replacement when you call
in sick does not fall on the employee, even if
her business, your daughter's business, sounds like they are trying
to enforce that. This is governed by the Fair Work
(03:00):
Act two thousand and nine. If you want to go
and look further into the reference. When an employee is
generally sick or injured, they're entitled to paid personal or
cares leave and they do not have a legal obligation
to find someone to cover their shift. And that's if
they're a permanent employee. So of course, yes, you do
have to notify your employer as soon as possible. They
(03:21):
can request reasonable evidence like a medical certificate, but you
are not legally required to find a replacement. Now, it
is the case that some workplaces have their own internal
policies or informal expectations around finding replacements that they might
communicate to you. For example, in a small business, if
there's not very many of you, they kind of might
(03:42):
suggest that you could help find or maybe contact someone
else to cover the shift, especially if it's a more
casual or roster based work, like I know in a
lot of hospitality businesses, they might ask if you could
call around to some of your colleagues. But even if
there are employment contracts that say otherwise or kind of
have additional provisions that require that of you, they can't
(04:02):
override the minimum standards in that fair work app So
even if your employer expects it, they cannot legally require
it as a condition for you getting your sick leave.
So if you do need further help with that, you could,
of course let them know. But if you need any
further help, there are some amazing official sources like the
Fair Work Ombitsman who can help you further to sort
(04:24):
of help you feel equipped to deal with going back
to your boss.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Oh my god, what great advice, Fiona. What I want
you to do right now is take this biz episode
and just play it to your employer. Actually play it
in front of the whole company.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Just play my voice to them, say here's my lawyer,
here's my lawyer.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Take it away, Sarah, and then just.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Play literally this is a personal voice note that she
sent me on her build time.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh I love love love that advice. Good luck, Fiona,
and know you're right girl. Okay, speaking of workplace rules
that make you question everything, I want to dive into
our first question. It's all about the unspoken rules of
resume writing and whether we should be playing by them.
So Meg dm us this and it's literally got me
(05:14):
questioning everything I know about resume honesty. So she says,
I just finished a marketing internship where I was basically
doing coordinator level work, running campaigns, presenting to clients everything.
My official title was marketing intern, but that sounds so
junior compared to what I actually did. Job titles are
completely made up anyway, And if recruiters are searching for
(05:36):
marketing coordinator, not marketing intern, why should I miss out
on opportunities because of some arbitrary label. My friends have
definitely lied about their titles before and nothing happened. Isn't
this just speaking the recruiters language, rather than being held
back by a title I didn't even choose?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Great question, I want to say.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I feel like a lot of titles are basically just labels.
I have seen people get away with like a little
edit on their job title on a LinkedIn page or
on a resume and they've gotten away with it. The
only thing that I feel like might burn you is
if you are applying for jobs at a new company
and you change your title on it, but you have
(06:21):
references from people at your current company who can vouch
for you. I feel like that might go a bit
left sided if you push that agenda and they call
your references and they're like, oh, she was an intern,
she wasn't a coordinator. Like even though it's just something
so small and minute, as someone who's like recruiting you,
(06:42):
if you hear that and the first thing they hear
is like a straight up lie, that will give a
bad taste of them, and then you try and explain
that to them after they find out, we'll just feel
like you're just covering for yourself. So I feel like
you just have to be really, really careful in those situations.
If you're actively looking for a job.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I feel like it is expected
that most people are embellishing to them maximum capacity that
you have. Like, of course, the resume is putting your
best foot forward, so you're going to be delivering it
in the most positive light that you can. But I
think there is a very clear delineation between embellishment and
(07:20):
then actually editing the truth of the role that you had.
Like I think in the description of what you do,
you can drum up what you've been doing. But I
think downright, just changing the role that you had, like
literally changing the title and position that you occupied in
that role, strays into that's not true. Like there's a
(07:42):
difference between the scale of what you did versus what
it was actually called. And I think if it strays
into yeah, like you said, if it's a strays into
a lie, then it's unethical. Whereas if you're just talking up,
you know, the responsibilities that you had and expressing them
in the most positive language that you can, I think
that's different. Like I've been a serial resume patterer my
(08:03):
entire life. I have always wanted to put my best
foot forward and show the breadth of the different things
that I've done. But if it came to actually changing
the title of one of those opportunities or roles, that's
where I would draw the line, particularly because you can
get caught out. But even if you can't, I feel
like it's just not the role you had.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, that's so true. And I also feel like if
you're applying to roles and you're saying that you're a
marketing intern but you're doing a coordinator level role, you
can still apply for those marketing coordinator roles. Like, there
are a lot of companies that want to invest in
junior talent to help build them up so they can
like learn on their job and then reach new heights.
And I feel like you're still within your right to
(08:41):
completely apply for those roles if you believe that you
can do them. Don't feel like that your label as
an intern is kind of like a red mark, Like
it's not. In fact, it's like such a good way
to like show companies that you're willing to go above
and beyond your job title, which is exactly what you did,
and that you can show that off in your resume.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You can also use the description.
Often you will have a cover letter when you're applying,
and that's the context where you can say, my position
was technically intern, but I was given an extraordinary level
of responsibility. And this you know, you can elaborate in
other places, but I think just to assume that because
your responsibilities were greater than your role, that you're allowed
(09:22):
to just change the name of the role is probably
where it becomes a little bit if he.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Our next question is about job references, which I feel
like goes hand in hand with resumes, but I feel
like it's one of the ones that we get most
asked about, like actual references. So we got this email
by Riley and it basically asks every single reference question
you've ever had, So it's going to be a meaty one.
She says, I have so many questions about references, and
(09:54):
I'm honestly confused about the whole process. My boss left
on really bad terms, and now I'm the only manager left.
Everyone else is below me in the hierarchy. Should I
ask my old boss even though she left badly? Can
I ask someone who's technically junior to me? Now? And
when someone asks me to be their reference, how do
I politely say no if they weren't actually good at
(10:15):
their job? Also, what's the protocol? Do I send them
the specific job description I'm applying for or just ask
if they'll be a general reference? How will I even
test if someone will be a good reference for me? Oh?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
We need an episode on references for this question?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Oh my god, Raley, you're going through a reference spiral or.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Really good questions, though I think really common really.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Good questions are references are something that I haven't thought
about in years. I'm also quite offended then no one's
ever asked me to be a reference to them.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Look, I think to address the first part about your
boss leaving on really bad terms, that's a really difficult one,
but I think it really depends on whether they left
on really bad terms with you or they left on
really bad terms with the company.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Because I was going to.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Say the same thing.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
If they left on really bad terms and it was
nothing to do with your relationship, I think they can
definitely still vouch for you, because the whole point is
that they're speaking to your skill set, and if they're
a reference on your resumes, usually because you're applying somewhere
else that's not the company that they left. So I
think that if they can still speak to your skill
(11:23):
set and they still can vouch for all the things
that you did do in the company, and that's got
nothing to do with their relationship with that company, especially
if you are applying for a third party company, there's
no reason why they can't still be a really good
reference for you, especially if you trust it they won't
go rogue and sort of start speaking badly about the
actual business. I think that depends on the situation of
(11:44):
what those bad terms are. And yes, you should absolutely
still ask them if you do think they can keep
that relationship with the business separate. As for asking someone
who's junior to you, I probably wouldn't recommend that. I'm
sure it's been done, but I think the more authority
and breadth of what someone can speak to about the
(12:05):
way that you you performed your responsibilities, I don't think
it's really the done thing to get that from someone
underneath you. I think it's more to come from a
leadership perspective, and that it would be much stronger if
it did come from an old boss.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, and you also don't need to just get references
from the company or currently working at yas like you
could branch out and ask like a boss from a
different company, or like a coworker who's now been promoted
to a higher level at a different company that you
previously worked at. I feel like so many people think
that it has to be the exact company that you've
come from and going to a new job, and that
(12:39):
is completely untrue. It's just anyone who've ever worked with
in your past who can vouch for you as a
person as well as your work ethic.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah. Absolutely, And that kind of links to the last
part of the question about testing if someone will be
a good reference for you. I think you can gauge
that by the relationship that you have with them, and
also by their general level of eloquence or attention to
detail that they give to the work that they do.
I think you get a sense of who will give
you a really glowing reference who won't. And I would
definitely go you don't want it to be too far
(13:09):
into the past, because I think recruiters do want there
to be some level of currency. But I would go
for the strongest versus the most recent if they weren't
the same person.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, for sure, and definitely give them a heads up,
like you don't want your recruited to be cold calling,
like your coworkers going, hey, do you have fifteen minutes
is spare to talk about this person?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah? And when you give them that heads up, I
would definitely send the specific job description because I would
want them to be speaking to the skills that are
relevant to that job and not just kind of going
on about she's really good at looking after her dog,
she's great at, you know, helping me keill my hair. Like,
not that anyone would go that rogue, but I think
it the more context they have, the better chance they
(13:49):
have to help you in that specific application. And it
could be different for I've got references who have been
my reference for very different kinds of jobs, and them
knowing what the job is helps them tailor what they
say to make it stronger for me as well, because
usually reference wants you to do really well, so you've
got to arm them with the most information that you can.
(14:11):
In a flip situation, when you're asked to be a
reference and you don't feel like you can give a
really good reference, that is a very very difficult question.
But I think it is probably best to say no
rather than to accept and then not really know what
to say, because the expectation is that you're going to
(14:33):
say something lovely. I don't know. I mean I would
probably say something like as a policy, I don't really
give references like. There's probably nice ways to say it
other than I think you were really bad at your job.
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh, it's so so hard if it was someone that
I was like, no, you were a horrible person, a
horror like really really bad, I would say no, I
don't think I'm the best person fit to give you
a reference, and it would be a very hard conversation.
And I feel like it has to be someone that
you're okay with not being like your enemy, I guess
(15:09):
for the rest of your life, like they'll probably hate you.
But if it's someone that I felt like could do
a good job, I'd say yes, and I'd do the reference,
but I'd still be quite honest, Like I wouldn't be
overly glowing and overly enthusiastic about that person. I'll be like,
I'll be quite honest with like the way they work.
Because it's also your reputation on the line, right, Like
(15:32):
it all comes back to you. Like if you give
someone who was like I guess okay a reference, that's
like they're the best person in the world, Like they're
so good at their job, they're going to be amazing,
Versus if you're like, they did their job, they were great.
There were some issues, but overall, I'm glad that I
was able to work with them. I think that is
way better for both of you than lying.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Essentially, if I knew that they expected me to say
something really, really positive and I wasn't able to genuinely
say that and put my name to it, I think
I would have to say no. I wouldn't just say
yes and then not say a nice thing, yes, I'll
do it.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
They were horrible for me.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I personally I wouldn't be able to do that. But
I also I'm not very good at saying no, so
I know it's a really hard one.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's really hard. Okay, I was complaining about no one
asking me to be their reference, but maybe no. Okay,
our final question, I feel like this is the wildest
question we've had in biz inbox history, and I actually
(16:31):
don't know what my advice would be for again, let's go.
It's an anonymous one, so you just know already it's
so wild. I found out my company is planning massive
layoffs in January, but I overheard this by accident in
a meeting I wasn't supposed to be in. My entire
team has no idea, and they're all making big financial decisions,
(16:53):
buying houses, planning weddings. One person just had a baby.
I'm dying inside watching them live their lives without knowing
what's coming up. Do I warn them and risk getting
fired myself? Do I stay quiet and let them get blindsided?
And honestly, should I be job hunting right now even
though I might not be on the list. I feel
like I'm sitting on a bomb and I don't know
(17:14):
what to do with this information.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I am spiraling just hearing this scenario. I'm scared, and
it's such a tough one. Like that is a dilemma,
that is a serious.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Dilimma, actual dilemma. I want to know the like logistics
of how you were in a meeting that you weren't supposed.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
To be yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Like was it the situation where you were in the
meeting and they suddenly realized that we shouldn't be discussing
this with this person in the meeting or was it
like you were on call, or like you overheard it
through like another room or something like that. I think
that can provide the ethics outline of what you should
do next.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I kind of feel like it also depends on what
your level of seniority is as well, because if you
are in like er management, for example, and you were
in the meeting where the layoffs were being planned, and
you're part of that upper strategic management, it kind of
is part of your role to not deliver that news
before the company is going to deliver that news. There's
(18:20):
strategy around that, and there's a reason why upper management
is kept abreast of those plans and why everyone else isn't.
If you're a junior on the same level as everyone
else who is sort of part of that layoff and
who is going to be laid off, there's less of
an expectation that A you're not supposed to know, but
(18:41):
B it's not like a business strategy for you to
keep it a secret. I think it's a little bit different,
Like I think there are much higher expectations of secrecy
on senior management versus everyone else. I personally would find
it really really difficult to not share that information with
people who are making huge financial decisions around me. That's
(19:03):
my internal moral compass. But I also feel like it's confidential,
sort of very sensitive commercial information.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I'm the same, I'd find it really hard to not
tell my coworkers, especially watching them go through massive financial
planning like having a baby, buying houses, planning weddings like
that's like life destroying news. For like those like life moments,
I would almost.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Coffront the company first. I feel I would.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Almost say that, like I would go to that meaning
you weren't supposed to be and like whoever was running
it be like, hey, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah? I would almost Should I be looking for a new.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Job right now? Should I be telling other people?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah? Should people know? Yeah? I kind of feel like
the way to resolve the real tension between this could
also really adversely affect the company and big financial interests
on their level if I say something, and also it
really affects everyone else. The middle ground is let the
company know that you overheard, because you know, guys, that's
your fault that you kind of I didn't keep a
(20:06):
lid on the information, but I have it now and
I don't know what to do. I haven't delivered the
news to everyone else yet, but I feel like it's
out of the bag. You know what's going on, and
then at least you can maybe get some guidance on
how sensitive the information is. Maybe you can give them
a chance to deliver it themselves so you don't have
to be the messenger. But bring forward the timeline because
(20:26):
they know that there's a ticking time bomb. Perhaps it
is a situation where you go to HR and say, look,
I've really I've become aware of this information, and I
feel really conflicted. It's not a decision that you need
to be making on your own. Also, I feel like
this is such big financial interests on both sides on
your shoulders. This is weighing down on just you in
(20:47):
this moment, and no one else knows you're going through it.
I think I would go to the company and say, guys,
I know, so what are you going to do about it?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
And also just like tell them be like this person
planning a wedding, this person just had a baby, this
person is buying houses. You need to tell them right
now before they invest all this money into these big things.
I mean, the baby's like already happened.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So yeah, I think that's what I would do, because
I think if you went straight to your colleagues and
just let it out, you also might not have all
the context of what the redundancy payouts might be. Like
some people might be wanting a redundancy, It could be
something that actually is a massive chunk of a payout.
Some people might be being kept on, so you might
go and deliver the news and saying everyone's being laid off,
(21:28):
and then half of them aren't actually being laid off,
and then you've gone and ruined everyone's lives before. I
think it's probably yeah, best to just confront the company
and clarify the exact facts before you go and deliver
life altering news on your own accord.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Oh my god, I am so interested to find out
what happened. I want this person to email us again
with what they decided to do, and then we can
talk about it for the next season.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I know this is a cliff hanger, a.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Cliff we're leaving on a cliffhanger, but that is a
wrap on our season of Biz Inbox. We wanted to
do a thing I don't know, Sarah. Do you have
your advice ready?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
We wanted to do a thing where we want to
give you a final piece of advice that we want
to leave you with. Mine's more like life advice rather
than yeah, workplace advice, but it developed from the workplace.
And I stole this from Jemima Kirk, who is like
an A List actress. She was in girls, she was
in sex education. She's absolutely brilliant at like advice, it's
(22:26):
do the next thing. And I've used this so much
in my life. I feel like if you have like
mental health issues, if you are a deprocrastinator, I am
both of those things. Doing the next thing has helped
me so much. Like There'll be times where I'm just
sitting at my desk and I'm like, I physically can't
type out a word on my email, and I'll just
(22:47):
be like, Okay, do the next thing. Just read the email,
do the next thing, write the intro to the email,
do the next thing, finish the email, send it. Like
there are so many times, and I feel like this
goes hand in hand when you feel like you're starting
to get burnout in the workplace, When you feel like
that everything just becomes so so hard. Even just taking
lunch break walking outside becomes like the hardest task in
(23:08):
the world. Like do the next thing, Like just get
up from your desk and see what happens. I think
so many people, especially now in today's work climate. We
talked about it on last week's episode, that we're all
job hugging and we're all just trying to go above
and beyond f our jobs because we're so scared to
leave them. At the same time, there are people who
have been struggling to find a job for the longest time,
(23:30):
and it's just this really scary environment that we're in
right now, and I think just taking the next little
step just makes the biggest difference and stops you from
just completely spiraling that I know so many people are
going through right now.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh, that's excellent advice, Am, That's such a good one.
Mine's probably more workplace focused. It's been a recurring theme
through every episode we've done, both A and B, and
I think it's just that no matter what dilemma or
quandary you're facing, you're not alone. We have had so
many of people feeling like it's there alone in their workplace,
(24:06):
that they're the only one who's kind of facing this situation.
Often it's a situation where they feel a bit disempowered
in that workplace. So I think my big message to
everyone would be, you're not alone. So many other people
have faced and overcome the situation that you're in. You're
not expected to deal with this on your own either.
There is so much help and support and resources out there,
(24:27):
and I think particularly as employees, there's often a big
power imbalance between you and your bosses, which makes you
feel like you have to tolerate everything that they throw
you away. And that's not the case. You're not meant
to just suffer through every single thing that someone decides
they want to inflict on you. Of course, there are rules,
and you know, things that do come with authority, but
(24:50):
there are a lot of situations that have been submitted
where you have a lot more power to set boundaries,
a lot more power to demand that you are treated
well and rewarded and appreciated and supported in your workplace.
So there is support out there and none of you
are alone.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's such good advice. That makes me so motion.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
We are here for you.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
We're here for you all the time. But that is
a season wrap on our biz Inbox. We haven't covered
everything from lying about job titles to navigating reference etiquette
and ending with some very serious heavy workplace ethics.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Thank you guys so much for sending us your messiest
worked lemmons all season long and trusting us with those situations.
As I said, we are here for you. Keep them
coming through our show notes link. We will be back
soon with more career chaos to solve for you.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay, so before you go, Yes, Biz Inbox may be
done for this season, but we still have two more
biz apps for you that are coming next week, and honestly,
I'm pretty sure we are going out with our two biggest,
most jam packed episodes. Yes, So on Tuesday, we're diving
into how to give feedback without making everyone want to
crawl under their desk, And on Thursday is our final
(26:02):
Biz Main Show episode where we're unpacking pivot because let's
be real, most of us are going to switch careers
multiple times in our life anyway, so we might as
well figure out how to do it properly. These are
going to be our last episodes for this season, so
do not miss these episodes next week. Bye bye, Mamma
(26:33):
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
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