August 6, 2025 • 17 mins
Do networking events make you want to hide in the bathroom? Your colleagues keep dumping their disasters on your desk? And everyone's talking about "conscious unbossing" like it's the career move of the century?
This week, we're diving deep into the workplace trends that are reshaping how we think about success. We decode the viral conscious unbossing movement that's got Gen Z turning down promotions (and whether it's genius or career suicide), plus we tackle the networking game without sounding desperate and reveal the diplomatic ways to tell colleagues their chaos isn't your problem.
What you'll discover:
• The Conscious Unbossing Reality Check: Why turning down promotions might be the smartest move you never considered
• The Zookeeper's Power Move: How one woman refused every promotion to stay happy (and why her boss loved it)
• The Networking Breakthrough: The one question that transforms awkward coffee chats into real connections
• The Boundary Setting Bible: Diplomatic ways to say "that's not my job" without burning bridges
• The Small Talk Truth: Why everyone who says they "hate small talk" is missing the point
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Got office politics nightmares or boss-from-hell situations? Send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain completely anonymous!
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HOSTS: Sarah Davidson and Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
BIZ UPDATE:
Sarah Davidson has been sharing her career wisdom with us, and now she's officially here to stay. She's joining BIZ Inbox full-time as co-host alongside Em Vernem and honestly, we couldn't be more excited.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome back to Bids Inbox. I'm m Vernon
and this is your safe space for all of your
career questions and dilemmas, where we answer it and we don't.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Judge much kind of. And Sarah Davidson here bringing my
lawyer turned entrepreneur perspective to help you navigate whatever's landed
in your work life this week. And I'm kidding. We listen,
we don't judge.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
We listen and we don't listen, and.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We don't judge, and we try to solve.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
We try to solve, and same rules as always. If
you want to be completely anonymous when you submit your dilemmas,
you of course can do so your secret stay is
safe with us. We're just here to make your life
a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And today we are diving into the art of networking
without sounding desperate, which is truly a fine art because
we've all been there trying to make small talk over
coe while secretly hoping for some career magic. Plus, we're
tackling how to diplomatically tell colleagues to handle their own
mess when they try to dump their poor planning on
your plate again. Very common scenario. But first, M You've
(01:18):
got a question about a workplace trend that's been blowing
up your feed, and it's one that's got entire generations
rethinking what career sess actually looks like.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes, okay, I've been seeing this trend everywhere, especially on TikTok,
So I want to get your take. Conscious unbossing trend
is something that I feel like I personally started and
someone else credit for.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh, we've also spoken about we've also stealing of credit.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I hate that I haven't made up this term on
my own, Like.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We go back and listen to the Last Air Babe,
we missed.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Out on that.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But it's basically young people who are actually opting out
from any leadership positions, whether it's like a promotion or
like a new career, they're just saying no, I just
want to stay where I am right now, or even
kind of what we talked about with the many retirements,
actually this going away, coming back, just doing a job
for money rather than developing a whole career plan. So
(02:14):
I want to know if someone does decide to turn
down a promotion, like especially if it's a promotion that's
going up the ladder we have to manage people. How
can I still appear driven and ambitious to their employer
without looking like they lack motivation or career goals.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
This is an incredible question, and I think it is
a sign that.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
This is my own dilemma.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, like it's anonymous, but actually it's Verna who's submitted.
You say it's a safe space, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Note with you.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I feel like, firstly, we overlabel everything in this day
and age. So I was a little bit triggered when
I saw a conscious unbossing because I was like, Ugh,
just just say you don't want to work, Yes, God,
just say lazy girl. It's fine. It's all encompassing. But
I do think it's symptomatic of a really positive move
away from probably the last decade of hustle culture, which
(03:06):
is amazing. I think it's really great that we're encouraging
people to work hard, but I think to the extent
of incredible burnout, mental illness, or struggles with mental health,
I think we've probably pushed the gold digger hustle culture
things so hard that it is good that people are
taking a little bit more control back. And also, my
(03:27):
whole podcast sees the a focuses on this exact dilemma
of distinguishing the difference between success and happiness and your
work identity and your life fulfillment, and how they can
be very different. And I actually think it's a power
move to decide you don't want a promotion when all
of the world is telling you that upwards is best
and the only valuable thing in your career is to
(03:49):
go further. I actually had a zoo keeper on the
show once, and she had specifically resisted every single offer
of a promotion, like specific offers, pay rises, title changes
and everything, because she's like, the higher up you get
in this zoo, the less time you spend with animals,
and my passion is working with animals. So why would
(04:10):
I move away from a role where my role fundamentally
changes when my happiness I know what my happiness is
day to day. And I was like, in a world
that thinks that success is everything and the promotions are
everything and money is everything, that is a true power move.
So I love the idea that some people are just
like I'm happy here, why would I want more?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And I also feel like you can still get promoted
in ways that aren't just managing other people and in
those leadership positions, because I do think that anyone can
be a manager, but not everyone can be a leader,
and to have a good manager, you need to be
a leader. And there are still so many people, even
in my generation, who I'm like, you would be an
(04:48):
amazing manager. And I don't want people in my generation
to think that managing is like a whole other, really hard,
boring job, but it's not like some people are so
cut out for it and we need good managers. Just
because your friends choose a different life path like me
doesn't mean that you have to either, Like some people
actually thrive going up the ladder, So I don't want
(05:08):
to put anyone off of those management skills. But also
I feel like it is a place of privilege to
speak about how I can turn down promotions without getting
more money and like saying that you're okay with that,
Whereas I feel like workplaces do need to adjust in
different types of skill sets, and they need to adjust
in ways where you can empower someone to continue working
(05:32):
and like upskilling themselves without having to manage other people,
and so many workplaces do that really well.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Like my role is a new role.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Here among me as associate editor, and I don't manage people,
but I'm still able to like see the next level.
I'm still able to thrive for that and like work
my way to that and also contribute to the company
as a whole. And I feel like we need to
see more companies abolish that one linear way of thinking
on how to make people develop. And I feel like, now,
if you're young and you're looking for new jobs, there
(06:01):
are so many opportunities and different roles you can have
that isn't all always just chasing that ladder?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I think it's so important to
be able to show that you can have career goals,
even if they're not upwards in the traditional sense. And
I think, you know, the original question was like, how
do you show that you're driven in ambitious? And that's
definitely in the way you communicate what your goals are.
The reason why the zookeeper did so well is because
every time she said no, she explained why she was, like,
(06:29):
my contact with the animals is my prime goal. It's
my motivation, it's my drive, it's what I want to
learn to do better and better and better at this.
But I don't want to lose that Ye. Similarly, I
think if you're like the subject matter of my work
is so important, managing people is a distraction from that.
For me, I don't think I would be good at
that or enjoy it. How can a manage to not
(06:49):
appreciate that from you? How can they not appreciate that
you're explaining why? And I think this is where the
big differentiation is. If you're consciously unbossing just because you
don't want to work hard, I don't love that, yeah,
because I think that's not because you're happy where you are,
and that's not because you've found what you love. That's
just because you don't want to work hard. And I
think that is kind of a problem, not a problem,
(07:12):
but that is something that's happening a lot in the
younger generations of just shying away from hard work generally.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Especially if that like frame of mind is affecting other
people's workload. Yeah, like your colleagues have to like end
up doing your work because you're just checking.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
But I think if you're consciously unbossing because you have
found what you love, in that case, I think it's
really possible to show you still have goals, they're just
not the goals that other people might.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Have exactly Okay. Our next question is an anonymous question
that I think all of us can relate to because
it's all about small talk.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
O we love good.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So it says, what are good questions to ask during
networking coffee chats and show genuine interests without sounding desperate
or transactional.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Oh, it's just so sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I want to build authentic professional relationships, but I'm never
sure how to steer conversations beyond the small talk what
actually makes these meetings valuable for both people.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That is such a hard one. You've done a lot
of networking, yeah, and I think you definitely have to
start with small talk. Yeah, Like you do have to
kind of get into the conversation and break the eyes
and talk about the weather and talk about your work stuff. Like,
I feel like there is a role for those really
annoying transactional questions at the beginning. And you do just
have to tolerate that networking is really awkward until you
(08:25):
build rapport. It's always awkward. So you just got to
lean into that.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
You have to lean in.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And I feel like we've come away where like so
many people are so confident in saying things like, oh,
I hate small talk, like I hate it without realizing
that you need small talk.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, I'm not going to come up straight to you
and be like.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
How is your period?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
How is your period?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah? You look lutel right now, which I.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Mean we both have done that to each other und
knowing each other for five minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, but in some situations skip the small talk.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
But I feel like if you had a big networking
like coffee thing where you're both aware that this is
a networking thing, you have to kind of ease into
it because you both though you want a certain outcome
out of this conversation, and the outcome you get out
of a networking conversation is how is this going to
benefit both of our careers?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Which is so different to other types.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Of like conversations, like conversations you have with your friends,
conversations you have over a date when it is kind
of like transactional, trying not to sound transactional while doing
it is very hard.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah. And I also think the more you're overthinking how
do I avoid the small talk that I hate, the
more transactional you sound or desperate you sound because you're
like scrambling for questions. But one of the things I
love asking people is just what's one of the most
interesting things you've done recently or what's one of the
coolest things you've done outside of work that you loved
because getting people talking about something they're passionate about. And
this is where, like I come back to my podcast
(09:49):
all the time. My favorite thing in the world is
listening to other people talk about their favorite thing in
the world, because you look different when you're excited about
what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Oh what are you excited about right now?
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah? Like allah someone that because it won't be about work,
it won't be necessarily about something that could benefit both
of you in the moment, but it'll help you get
to know each other. It relaxes them, It takes the
pressure off you because they'll suddenly have this influx of
stuff to start talking about, like is it a travel
experience they had, where did you go recently? Is it
their dog? Is it their hobby? But that breaks ice
(10:23):
in a really nice way and you learn something about
them that then I feel like often the most productive
networking relationships are one where you found out you go
for the same football team, or you have the same
foreign language, or you both have the same dog. Like
that's where you run into them again. You go, you're
the golden retriever guy, like you're the whatever. It's not
(10:44):
because you had great work chat. It's because you found
out other stuff about each other, and then that's your
point of connection for the next time. So just ask
them what are you excited about? Right?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
My favorite question to ask if you're networking with someone
within your company is, so, who do you hate here?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Nothing bonds people like mutual.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And it's like the last question right off, and they're like,
what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Is a good one?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It's so good because it breaks everyone down. They just
either like laugh hysterically or they're like, oh yeah, let's.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Get Plus, I think it reveals a lot about you.
It's like she's cool, she's interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And then you don't say so now you just have
information on them.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, and you just question either what is pissing you
off today?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah? I love that?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Good good one.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay, our final question. We got this on Instagram from
Leah and she said it's.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Such a good one. How do you professionally say?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That sounds like a you problem when colleagues try to
dump their responsibilities on you, And what about why didn't
you just ask me this sooner? When someone creates urgency
from their poor planning, I need diplomatic ways to set boundaries. Okay,
So I feel like we're well past diplomatic.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
This is amazing. I think that we actually need a
biz by MoMA Mia translation guide, like you know those
like basic phrases that you need when you go to
a new country and it's like hello, goodbye, where's the toilet?
Like what's on the menu? Blah blah blah. I feel
like we need a list of common work phrases like
that sounds like a you problem absolutely hell no, like
(12:22):
and then's the translation of like the polite way to
say it. That's really difficult.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
It is really difficult, But.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I think there are really diplomatic ways to say it.
I think it's all about the phrasing.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
This also comes down to like having the confidence to
actually say something that you don't want to say. I
have had people who have brought me not their problems,
but have tried to like literally like what's happening to Leah,
like dump their work on me. And then what I
do is I go back to them and be like, hey,
(12:53):
so I found if you do these steps, it works
out much quicker and easier. Yeah, and it kind of
gives the work back to them to be like, I
know what you're trying to do, but I've helped you.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
But I've helped you.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's a great way, or even something
like I mean, obviously it sounds like you problem is
never going to be the right wording to get the result.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
That you want.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Definitely said exactly that, Yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
An exit copy paste. But I think you could say,
look at the moment, I don't actually have the capacity
to work on this for you. I'd be happy to
help direct you to hear or like you said, like
give them some tips and definitely saying why didn't you
ask me about this sooner? Is probably not going to
get you the response that you want. But you could
say in a much more gentle way, I wish I'd
known earlier, because I would have definitely been happy to
(13:32):
help you. At this point, I'm busy working on this,
so I actually don't have time. But why don't you
ask blah or why don't you have a look at this?
I think there are gentle ways to make a point
of like if you had asked me last week I
would have been able to help you. And you know
they're going to read between the lines and be like, yeah,
you're saying I told you so, you should have done this.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I also like, let's put a meeting in to discuss
this further, because that's when you know whether they just
like want to get rid of this task for you
to do it. But if you give them more work
to put a meeting in, then you make them sit
there with you while you do it together. That yeah,
more often than not, they'll just end up doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yes, that's a good one. I think it is. You
are still saying those two things, and you are setting boundaries.
You're just doing it in a way that has no aggression.
It's very gentle, and there's so much power in wording
things in a way that doesn't allow them to come
back to you.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Or you can be like the other day I went
networking and this person says, I hate you.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yes, I think it has.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
To do with this.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, but yeah, I do think that people will often
create their own time management issues and then turn to
others around them to solve it. And it is really difficult.
But you have the power to set the boundaries and
do it politely. It's just it's not your job. It's
you could just say sos no, that's outside of scope,
(14:53):
outside of scope anything else. Oh my gosh, can we
please get some more triggering work behavior questions?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yes, I want to.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Hear about the Yeah, like those are fun, Yeah, they're
really fun. They're great challenges and also exposes. Like I
feel like people just need to feel normalized and heard.
And if you know that other people are also facing
weird shit at their workplace, at least you feel better
about it.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
What are your thoughts on flussing at desks?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Oh, I mean flussing generally ten out of ten highly
recommend in your private great for oral health. I definitely
think it's a bathroom activity. Yeah, it's a personal bar
solo bathroom activity, solo bathroom activity. And it's also it
flicks shit flicks.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
You know where it flicks on your screen ew.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Or on your colleagues. I think anything personal hygiene belongs
either in the home, not in the workplace, or if
in the workplace, in the bathroom bathroom. Yeah, are you
asking for a friend or that's something.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That I was accidentally witnessed too.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, I definitely think that's a if there's any chance
of body fluids flicking, it's even maybe a cubicle activity.
Definitely over the sinc. We need to make a diagrams.
We need diagrams, we need translation, we need ABIs by
mom and me. A guy to a workplace etiquette.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, but I'm also conscious I busting, so I don't
have time.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I'd love to do time. You should delegate. That's just
somebody else. That's the person who emailed in and said
em tried to delegate this shitty task to me. Anyway, Guys,
as usual, all our previous episodes are sitting there in
your feet. If you need a workplace wisdom catch up,
or just to listen to us have our unhinged bunter
back and forth.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Thank you so much for helping us clear the biz inbox.
Make sure you send all your work dilemmas, career questions,
whatever you need. If you have a really shitty boss,
we're here to hear about it. We'll have a link,
and we'll have a link in our show and not
for you to do so. You can remain completely anonymous,
or you can put your name on it. We don't judge.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
We will be back next week with more career conundrums
to solve. See you then Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome back to Bids Inbox. I'm m Vernon
and this is your safe space for all of your
career questions and dilemmas, where we answer it and we don't.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Judge much kind of. And Sarah Davidson here bringing my
lawyer turned entrepreneur perspective to help you navigate whatever's landed
in your work life this week. And I'm kidding. We listen,
we don't judge.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
We listen and we don't listen, and.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We don't judge, and we try to solve.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
We try to solve, and same rules as always. If
you want to be completely anonymous when you submit your dilemmas,
you of course can do so your secret stay is
safe with us. We're just here to make your life
a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And today we are diving into the art of networking
without sounding desperate, which is truly a fine art because
we've all been there trying to make small talk over
coe while secretly hoping for some career magic. Plus, we're
tackling how to diplomatically tell colleagues to handle their own
mess when they try to dump their poor planning on
your plate again. Very common scenario. But first, M You've
(01:18):
got a question about a workplace trend that's been blowing
up your feed, and it's one that's got entire generations
rethinking what career sess actually looks like.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes, okay, I've been seeing this trend everywhere, especially on TikTok,
So I want to get your take. Conscious unbossing trend
is something that I feel like I personally started and
someone else credit for.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh, we've also spoken about we've also stealing of credit.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I hate that I haven't made up this term on
my own, Like.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We go back and listen to the Last Air Babe,
we missed.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Out on that.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But it's basically young people who are actually opting out
from any leadership positions, whether it's like a promotion or
like a new career, they're just saying no, I just
want to stay where I am right now, or even
kind of what we talked about with the many retirements,
actually this going away, coming back, just doing a job
for money rather than developing a whole career plan. So
(02:14):
I want to know if someone does decide to turn
down a promotion, like especially if it's a promotion that's
going up the ladder we have to manage people. How
can I still appear driven and ambitious to their employer
without looking like they lack motivation or career goals.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
This is an incredible question, and I think it is
a sign that.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
This is my own dilemma.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, like it's anonymous, but actually it's Verna who's submitted.
You say it's a safe space, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Note with you.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I feel like, firstly, we overlabel everything in this day
and age. So I was a little bit triggered when
I saw a conscious unbossing because I was like, Ugh,
just just say you don't want to work, Yes, God,
just say lazy girl. It's fine. It's all encompassing. But
I do think it's symptomatic of a really positive move
away from probably the last decade of hustle culture, which
(03:06):
is amazing. I think it's really great that we're encouraging
people to work hard, but I think to the extent
of incredible burnout, mental illness, or struggles with mental health,
I think we've probably pushed the gold digger hustle culture
things so hard that it is good that people are
taking a little bit more control back. And also, my
(03:27):
whole podcast sees the a focuses on this exact dilemma
of distinguishing the difference between success and happiness and your
work identity and your life fulfillment, and how they can
be very different. And I actually think it's a power
move to decide you don't want a promotion when all
of the world is telling you that upwards is best
and the only valuable thing in your career is to
(03:49):
go further. I actually had a zoo keeper on the
show once, and she had specifically resisted every single offer
of a promotion, like specific offers, pay rises, title changes
and everything, because she's like, the higher up you get
in this zoo, the less time you spend with animals,
and my passion is working with animals. So why would
(04:10):
I move away from a role where my role fundamentally
changes when my happiness I know what my happiness is
day to day. And I was like, in a world
that thinks that success is everything and the promotions are
everything and money is everything, that is a true power move.
So I love the idea that some people are just
like I'm happy here, why would I want more?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And I also feel like you can still get promoted
in ways that aren't just managing other people and in
those leadership positions, because I do think that anyone can
be a manager, but not everyone can be a leader,
and to have a good manager, you need to be
a leader. And there are still so many people, even
in my generation, who I'm like, you would be an
(04:48):
amazing manager. And I don't want people in my generation
to think that managing is like a whole other, really hard,
boring job, but it's not like some people are so
cut out for it and we need good managers. Just
because your friends choose a different life path like me
doesn't mean that you have to either, Like some people
actually thrive going up the ladder, So I don't want
(05:08):
to put anyone off of those management skills. But also
I feel like it is a place of privilege to
speak about how I can turn down promotions without getting
more money and like saying that you're okay with that,
Whereas I feel like workplaces do need to adjust in
different types of skill sets, and they need to adjust
in ways where you can empower someone to continue working
(05:32):
and like upskilling themselves without having to manage other people,
and so many workplaces do that really well.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Like my role is a new role.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Here among me as associate editor, and I don't manage people,
but I'm still able to like see the next level.
I'm still able to thrive for that and like work
my way to that and also contribute to the company
as a whole. And I feel like we need to
see more companies abolish that one linear way of thinking
on how to make people develop. And I feel like, now,
if you're young and you're looking for new jobs, there
(06:01):
are so many opportunities and different roles you can have
that isn't all always just chasing that ladder?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I think it's so important to
be able to show that you can have career goals,
even if they're not upwards in the traditional sense. And
I think, you know, the original question was like, how
do you show that you're driven in ambitious? And that's
definitely in the way you communicate what your goals are.
The reason why the zookeeper did so well is because
every time she said no, she explained why she was, like,
(06:29):
my contact with the animals is my prime goal. It's
my motivation, it's my drive, it's what I want to
learn to do better and better and better at this.
But I don't want to lose that Ye. Similarly, I
think if you're like the subject matter of my work
is so important, managing people is a distraction from that.
For me, I don't think I would be good at
that or enjoy it. How can a manage to not
(06:49):
appreciate that from you? How can they not appreciate that
you're explaining why? And I think this is where the
big differentiation is. If you're consciously unbossing just because you
don't want to work hard, I don't love that, yeah,
because I think that's not because you're happy where you are,
and that's not because you've found what you love. That's
just because you don't want to work hard. And I
think that is kind of a problem, not a problem,
(07:12):
but that is something that's happening a lot in the
younger generations of just shying away from hard work generally.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Especially if that like frame of mind is affecting other
people's workload. Yeah, like your colleagues have to like end
up doing your work because you're just checking.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
But I think if you're consciously unbossing because you have
found what you love, in that case, I think it's
really possible to show you still have goals, they're just
not the goals that other people might.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Have exactly Okay. Our next question is an anonymous question
that I think all of us can relate to because
it's all about small talk.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
O we love good.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
So it says, what are good questions to ask during
networking coffee chats and show genuine interests without sounding desperate
or transactional.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Oh, it's just so sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I want to build authentic professional relationships, but I'm never
sure how to steer conversations beyond the small talk what
actually makes these meetings valuable for both people.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That is such a hard one. You've done a lot
of networking, yeah, and I think you definitely have to
start with small talk. Yeah, Like you do have to
kind of get into the conversation and break the eyes
and talk about the weather and talk about your work stuff. Like,
I feel like there is a role for those really
annoying transactional questions at the beginning. And you do just
have to tolerate that networking is really awkward until you
(08:25):
build rapport. It's always awkward. So you just got to
lean into that.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
You have to lean in.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And I feel like we've come away where like so
many people are so confident in saying things like, oh,
I hate small talk, like I hate it without realizing
that you need small talk.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, I'm not going to come up straight to you
and be like.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
How is your period?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
How is your period?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yeah? You look lutel right now, which I.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Mean we both have done that to each other und
knowing each other for five minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, but in some situations skip the small talk.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
But I feel like if you had a big networking
like coffee thing where you're both aware that this is
a networking thing, you have to kind of ease into
it because you both though you want a certain outcome
out of this conversation, and the outcome you get out
of a networking conversation is how is this going to
benefit both of our careers?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Which is so different to other types.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Of like conversations, like conversations you have with your friends,
conversations you have over a date when it is kind
of like transactional, trying not to sound transactional while doing
it is very hard.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah. And I also think the more you're overthinking how
do I avoid the small talk that I hate, the
more transactional you sound or desperate you sound because you're
like scrambling for questions. But one of the things I
love asking people is just what's one of the most
interesting things you've done recently or what's one of the
coolest things you've done outside of work that you loved
because getting people talking about something they're passionate about. And
this is where, like I come back to my podcast
(09:49):
all the time. My favorite thing in the world is
listening to other people talk about their favorite thing in
the world, because you look different when you're excited about
what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Oh what are you excited about right now?
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah? Like allah someone that because it won't be about work,
it won't be necessarily about something that could benefit both
of you in the moment, but it'll help you get
to know each other. It relaxes them, It takes the
pressure off you because they'll suddenly have this influx of
stuff to start talking about, like is it a travel
experience they had, where did you go recently? Is it
their dog? Is it their hobby? But that breaks ice
(10:23):
in a really nice way and you learn something about
them that then I feel like often the most productive
networking relationships are one where you found out you go
for the same football team, or you have the same
foreign language, or you both have the same dog. Like
that's where you run into them again. You go, you're
the golden retriever guy, like you're the whatever. It's not
(10:44):
because you had great work chat. It's because you found
out other stuff about each other, and then that's your
point of connection for the next time. So just ask
them what are you excited about? Right?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
My favorite question to ask if you're networking with someone
within your company is, so, who do you hate here?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Nothing bonds people like mutual.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And it's like the last question right off, and they're like,
what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Is a good one?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It's so good because it breaks everyone down. They just
either like laugh hysterically or they're like, oh yeah, let's.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Get Plus, I think it reveals a lot about you.
It's like she's cool, she's interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And then you don't say so now you just have
information on them.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, and you just question either what is pissing you
off today?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah? I love that?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Good good one.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay, our final question. We got this on Instagram from
Leah and she said it's.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Such a good one. How do you professionally say?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That sounds like a you problem when colleagues try to
dump their responsibilities on you, And what about why didn't
you just ask me this sooner? When someone creates urgency
from their poor planning, I need diplomatic ways to set boundaries. Okay,
So I feel like we're well past diplomatic.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
This is amazing. I think that we actually need a
biz by MoMA Mia translation guide, like you know those
like basic phrases that you need when you go to
a new country and it's like hello, goodbye, where's the toilet?
Like what's on the menu? Blah blah blah. I feel
like we need a list of common work phrases like
that sounds like a you problem absolutely hell no, like
(12:22):
and then's the translation of like the polite way to
say it. That's really difficult.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
It is really difficult, But.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I think there are really diplomatic ways to say it.
I think it's all about the phrasing.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
This also comes down to like having the confidence to
actually say something that you don't want to say. I
have had people who have brought me not their problems,
but have tried to like literally like what's happening to Leah,
like dump their work on me. And then what I
do is I go back to them and be like, hey,
(12:53):
so I found if you do these steps, it works
out much quicker and easier. Yeah, and it kind of
gives the work back to them to be like, I
know what you're trying to do, but I've helped you.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
But I've helped you.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's a great way, or even something
like I mean, obviously it sounds like you problem is
never going to be the right wording to get the result.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
That you want.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Definitely said exactly that, Yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
An exit copy paste. But I think you could say,
look at the moment, I don't actually have the capacity
to work on this for you. I'd be happy to
help direct you to hear or like you said, like
give them some tips and definitely saying why didn't you
ask me about this sooner? Is probably not going to
get you the response that you want. But you could
say in a much more gentle way, I wish I'd
known earlier, because I would have definitely been happy to
(13:32):
help you. At this point, I'm busy working on this,
so I actually don't have time. But why don't you
ask blah or why don't you have a look at this?
I think there are gentle ways to make a point
of like if you had asked me last week I
would have been able to help you. And you know
they're going to read between the lines and be like, yeah,
you're saying I told you so, you should have done this.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I also like, let's put a meeting in to discuss
this further, because that's when you know whether they just
like want to get rid of this task for you
to do it. But if you give them more work
to put a meeting in, then you make them sit
there with you while you do it together. That yeah,
more often than not, they'll just end up doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yes, that's a good one. I think it is. You
are still saying those two things, and you are setting boundaries.
You're just doing it in a way that has no aggression.
It's very gentle, and there's so much power in wording
things in a way that doesn't allow them to come
back to you.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Or you can be like the other day I went
networking and this person says, I hate you.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yes, I think it has.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
To do with this.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, but yeah, I do think that people will often
create their own time management issues and then turn to
others around them to solve it. And it is really difficult.
But you have the power to set the boundaries and
do it politely. It's just it's not your job. It's
you could just say sos no, that's outside of scope,
(14:53):
outside of scope anything else. Oh my gosh, can we
please get some more triggering work behavior questions?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yes, I want to.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Hear about the Yeah, like those are fun, Yeah, they're
really fun. They're great challenges and also exposes. Like I
feel like people just need to feel normalized and heard.
And if you know that other people are also facing
weird shit at their workplace, at least you feel better
about it.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
What are your thoughts on flussing at desks?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Oh, I mean flussing generally ten out of ten highly
recommend in your private great for oral health. I definitely
think it's a bathroom activity. Yeah, it's a personal bar
solo bathroom activity, solo bathroom activity. And it's also it
flicks shit flicks.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
You know where it flicks on your screen ew.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Or on your colleagues. I think anything personal hygiene belongs
either in the home, not in the workplace, or if
in the workplace, in the bathroom bathroom. Yeah, are you
asking for a friend or that's something.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That I was accidentally witnessed too.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, I definitely think that's a if there's any chance
of body fluids flicking, it's even maybe a cubicle activity.
Definitely over the sinc. We need to make a diagrams.
We need diagrams, we need translation, we need ABIs by
mom and me. A guy to a workplace etiquette.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yes, but I'm also conscious I busting, so I don't
have time.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
I'd love to do time. You should delegate. That's just
somebody else. That's the person who emailed in and said
em tried to delegate this shitty task to me. Anyway, Guys,
as usual, all our previous episodes are sitting there in
your feet. If you need a workplace wisdom catch up,
or just to listen to us have our unhinged bunter
back and forth.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Thank you so much for helping us clear the biz inbox.
Make sure you send all your work dilemmas, career questions,
whatever you need. If you have a really shitty boss,
we're here to hear about it. We'll have a link,
and we'll have a link in our show and not
for you to do so. You can remain completely anonymous,
or you can put your name on it. We don't judge.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
We will be back next week with more career conundrums
to solve. See you then Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on
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