July 16, 2025 • 24 mins
When workplace flirting gets dangerously hot, should you risk everything for a colleague you can't stop thinking about? This week we tackle the steamiest workplace dilemma we've ever received: months of "dangerous flirting" that's reached breaking point. Then we solve what happens when your dream job becomes a nightmare faster than you can update your LinkedIn, and reveal why three weeks is the worst possible time to make any career decisions, plus the one conversation that could save you from a massive mistake.
Plus, is there a colleague at work who makes you feel like the awkward new kid while they're the popular one everyone knows? We tackle workplace insecurity head-on, revealing the simple strategy that transforms your biggest workplace threat into your secret career weapon.
What you'll learn:
- The Insecurity Antidote: How to transform workplace jealousy into career advancement
- The 3-Week Rule: Why this timeline is too early to judge any new role (and what to do instead)
- The Safety vs Challenge Framework: How to know if you're craving security or genuinely unhappy
- The Office Romance Risk Calculator: The one question that determines if workplace attraction is worth pursuing
- The Colleague Dating Commandment: Why casual dating rules don't apply at work (and what does)
- The Worst-Case Scenario Test: The mental exercise that prevents career-destroying decisions
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your go-to workplace advice podcast where awkward career questions get real-world solutions.
Got office politics nightmares or boss-from-hell situations? Send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain completely anonymous!
Resources That Actually Help:
When I started dating a coworker, all the men in my office suddenly treated me differently
Looking for an office romance? You want to be in one of these professions.
SHOW MENTIONS:
Get more Sarah Davidson in her sensational podcast Seize The Yay!
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THE END BITS
Support independent women's media
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HOSTS: Sarah Davidson and Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Thom Lion
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Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm m Burnham and
this is your hr free zone for career questions, sticky
situations and everything in between.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned entrepreneur, here to
tackle your workplace to Lemma's head on with some proper
real talk.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
So this is your anonymous space to unpack everything that's
on your mind, from tricky team dynamics to startup stress
or nightmare managers. No names, no judgment, just real talk.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
M I'm particularly excited today because I feel like today's
episode is a bit juicier than normal. So today with
bringing you career advice about the hotly debated topic of
office romances. Should you follow your heart or should you
keep it strictly professional? And we'll also be chatting about
how to deal with when you're in full competition mode
with a colleague who's basically your work nemesis, which I'm
(01:08):
an a time. I'm super competitive, I've been in this situation.
But first, what happens when you land your dream job
but then realize it's not quite the fantasy you imagine?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So we actually got this question email to us, and
they asked to remain anonymous. They said, I'm feeling really
threatened by a colleague at work who has been in
the business longer than I have, but the two of
us are on similar ish levels. I hate feeling this insecure,
especially as I know he does not mean any ill
will and probably has no idea I feel this way.
(01:39):
Everyone in the industry knows who he is, but I'm
newer to it and still finding my feet. What advice
do you have?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So I have a.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Confession because I fear I have been this colleague before. Really, yeah,
I feel like in my job, I've been here for
a really really long time and media moves so fast,
and especially when I was in my early career, like
when I was about twenty two to twenty three, I
really honed in on this is my job, I'm the
(02:09):
best at it. Everyone else can fuck off. And I
feel like that was kind of admitted to anyone knew
who joined the business, and it was pretty obvious. So
the thing that kind of worked for me was firstly
someone just telling me to like get over yourself, like
I had.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Oh wait, you are the threatening colleague.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I was a threatening colleague. Yeah, I was this guy,
and I think I was aware of it, which makes
it even worse. I don't know if this guy's aware
of it, but I definitely was. My mum told me
to get over myself and to listen up, and that
the reason that my company was hiring more people was
to actually help me with my job. And for this
anonymous person, I would say, just befriend them, unless I,
(02:50):
like me, who's actually ware what they're doing, which I
don't think they are. I would say, just take them
out for lunch, have a coffee with them, like, get
to know them, ask how you can help with their
workload and vice versa, and I think they will slowly
realize that, oh, you're actually here to help me. It's
not like a competition kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I think it's so interesting that
you were the colleague. It was threatening, not threatened, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So small and young, so it was like a jump
scare for everyone.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But I feel like this dynamic would be so common
because there are definitely people who might be both at
the same level technically, but where one has sort of
a bigger profile and then the other one is a
little bit of a more quiet achiever. And that's not
to detract from either of them, like we're all just
different personalities. But I think if this particular anonymous questions
(03:43):
submitter is feeling threatened, I would, especially if it's the
actual person isn't meaning to threaten you, I would always
look at why do you feel like that way? What
is the cause of that? Is it in an as
he or she has mentioned, it's out of insecurity, it's
out of feeling like you don't belong. So I agree.
I think as you mentioned, the best advice is to
make an ally out of them them. If you've noticed
(04:07):
that they've got a bigger profile and everyone knows who
they are, emulate what they did to get there, like
hang around them, kind of take notes on what helped
them achieve the level of notoriety that they have and
you don't. Because if they're what you want to be,
then they're the best person to learn from. And especially
if he doesn't mean any ill will, then he probably
(04:27):
wants you to befriend him and kind of can take
on a little bit of a mentor role. And the
more that you work on that profile and work on
that area where you feel insecure, the less you'll feel insecure.
I always think where are my doubts, where are my
self doubts coming from? Or where's my imposter syndrome coming from?
And then how can I work on it? And the
more you work on it, the more it falls away.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, that's such good advice. Also, I would say that
when you join a new workplace, everything always is amplified
in your head because you're already so nervous, you already
feel like you have to prove your worth. So it
might not be coming across the same way that you
think it is coming across. To diminish this anonymous person's feelings,
but I would say that when I start a new job,
(05:11):
and a lot of my friends when they start a
new jobs, everything is always multiplied by ten because you're
in such a different environment and you're trying to like
find your footing. So I would say, just give yourself
a break.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And it's also really interesting that they mentioned that he
probably has no idea that they feel this way, and
so this would definitely be you have to make a
judgment call based on a particular person. But I'm a
big fan of just getting things out in the open.
Like I think I've said this in a couple of
other episodes. If you're nervous before a speaking gig, say it.
If you're nervous in an interview, say it. Like the
more that you can get those feelings out in the open,
(05:46):
I feel like that sort of helps do the opposite
of amplify them. It almost makes them smaller. Once you've
said it out loud, you might just say to him,
oh my gosh, I feel like everyone knows you. I
just feel so insecure sometimes because I'm a bit newer,
Like how did you get to where you got to?
That kind of takes the sting out of it, and
maybe he can talk you through it and.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
He also make him feel really good.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, yeah, he would love it. But he could also
have the opportunity then to turn around and say I
felt like that at the beginning, and this is what
I did.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Our next question. I feel like so many people will
have experience with this. It's all about regret and we
got this through our Instagram dms from Kate. Also, if
you want to submit any questions, there's a whole bunch
of links in a stro notes. You can email them
to us, or you can dm us on Instagram. You
can also be completely anonymous if you want to, Okay,
put a name on this one. And she says, I'm
(06:51):
three weeks into what I thought was my dream job
and I'm having serious bias remorse. The work is my
numbingly boring, and the.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
People feel really off.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I left a comfortable role where I was well liked
because I needed a challenge and was getting too cozy.
But now I'm wondering if I made a huge mistake.
I missed the safety of my old workplace so much
and know they take me back in a heartbeat, but
I also left for good reasons. How long should I
give it before admitting I've made a mistake? Is three
weeks too early to judge? Or should I trust my
(07:20):
gut instincts? Oh, this one hurts.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And it's a such a tough situation. I truly think that,
no matter the environment, I mean, with a couple of exceptions,
that three weeks is probably too early to judge an
entire workplace and an entire job opportunity, because you have
to account for the fact that you have left somewhere
(07:46):
that was really comfortable. You have left somewhere where you
know the ropes and you felt really good and you
know the dynamics. So anywhere new, especially somewhere that's challenging you,
is meant to feel uncomfortable. Like most worthy, great new things,
you do feel a bit shitty at the start, and
that's kind of the growth phase. So I also wouldn't
(08:07):
recommend you stay somewhere that's you know, damaging to you either.
But I do think that three weeks is a very
tumultuous time for any new opportunity, So perhaps give yourself
a little bit of time to adjust to the newness
and give everyone else a little bit of time to
adjust to the newness. That's not necessarily the best time
to judge a new role, I think. I think it's
(08:28):
still very early days and things can change pretty rapidly
when you get into a groove.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And that's so true.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I wouldn't want you to look back and miss out
on something that could be amazing because you made the
call to early.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
One hundred percent. I also feel like it's such a
myth that the higher you go, the easier your job becomes,
or the more you love it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I feel like, I mean, it's the opposite.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's the opposite, right. I know so many people who
turn down promotions because they just love their job so
much and they see their job as just a job
that they're comfortable in, not a career, which is so fine.
You don't have to constantly follow career if you just
want to do a job that you love and you're
comfortable in and you enjoy it. And the other thing
to that is like you will always have to do
(09:13):
work that you don't love. So you've only been there
for three weeks, exactly what Sarah said, How can you
make it more enjoyable? Like find out the pockets that
you're not quite enjoying. How can you like build up
office morale? Is there a culture team that you can
take part in to vibe with the people more. I
would also say I have a friend who has a
very similar story where she was at a workplace that
(09:35):
she absolutely loved and adored, and she wanted more of
a challenge, so she moved to a completely different company.
Hated it there, so she started talking to people in
a previous company saying, is there away can come back?
They formed a role for her it was very similar
to her old role, and she decided to come back,
and then she regretted not speaking to her manager at
(09:55):
her new company first. Yeah, because it was only after
she put in all these placements did the manager at
her new company say, we're willing to change, We're willing
to give you a better we're willing to like work
on this. But it was too late. So I would say,
before you make any drastic moves, speak to your manager,
your current manager first, because is there a way that
they can help you sort out this new position where
(10:18):
it works for you, Because the last thing you want
is to then move back and then that role will
be given to someone else, and then you're regretted again,
and you can't just keep bouncing back and forth as
much as I feel like you want to.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And I think also the way that Kate expressed that
what she misses about the old workplace is the safety,
it's like, well, if that's the part that you're missing,
then you're not going to get safety in a new
workplace straight away. If that's the main reason for the discomfort,
then I definitely think it's too early, because safety is
what builds over time. You're not meant to feel that
(10:49):
in a new job. Whereas if the part that you
hate in the new job is like a toxic workplace environment,
or bullying or something you know, Like, I think you
really need to write down what exactly it is. Yeah,
that is giving you buyers remorse because the time that
you wait for it to fade will be differ I
think you can be super super patient with growing comfort
or a feeling of safety, but you shouldn't be patient
(11:11):
with your job being nothing like the job you applied for.
Like there's different time frames of waiting that I would
allow yourself. But I definitely think if you have the
chance to speak to someone about it, the sooner you
do that the better because they might not have realized
you're not having a good time. There might be a
lot they can do before you make the drastic jump
of going backwards. And the other thing is it's interesting
(11:32):
that if you left your old job for a reason
Kate said she left for good reasons, even if you
don't like the job you're in, maybe the right choice
isn't to go back to the old one. Maybe it's
to go to a different, new one. If that makes sense.
I think, don't just look at it as either here
or there. It could be maybe this job isn't right
for you, but maybe you look for something else, Like yeah,
so true, there's a lot more than just go back
(11:53):
to where you were before that was more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
One hundred percent. Oh, that's such a good point, or
even like is there another department in your current company
that you can move to? And also like jumping back
and forth, I feel like that's where you get into
it's an idea that your work becomes your home and
it's not still a workplace, Like you never know you
could go back to your old workplace and they could
completely restructure or change things around and become different. Workplaces
(12:17):
are constantly changing and evolving, and you like it now
in your head of like the exact place that is
right now and that could change in like a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
One hundred percent And a really really left of field
thought that I just had because this situation came up
for me recently. Not with workplaces, but look at everything
else in your life right now as well. Is this
three weeks that you've been having a really unhappy time
at the new job? Have you had anything else going
on in your life that's made you crave security? Have
you had other big changes? Are you going through relationship issues?
(12:50):
Do you have your periods? Like what else is happening?
In your life that could be rubbing off on the
way you feel about your job, because everything in your
life is interrelated. So I think three weeks is too
early to judge because it could be not the job's fault.
It might be, but it might not be. I think
it is just too early, So maybe give yourself a deadline,
like I will wait another X amount of weeks before
(13:11):
I judge it again, just like you would like dating,
you don't kind of go on one. I mean no,
that's a bad example because sometimes they are big red flags.
But like I just think, give it a little bit
more time.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, the period point is so true. I'm like, I'm
a completely different person in my lue tell phase.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right, Like if I was in my luteal phase, I'd
walk away from everything, Like I'm bawling my eyes out.
Nothing is making me happy, So it's not the job's fault.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
After the break, we are helping a listener navigate serious
workplace chemistry and months of dangerous flirting. We'll be breaking
down office romance when it's worth the risk and when
it's a complete career sabotage. Okay, So we got this
(14:05):
very juicy DM from Ella, and I think That's probably
one of my favorite questions we've ever gotten in this podcast.
It's so juicy. So she says, I'm about to do
she hasn't even done it yet, She's about to I'm
about to do something potentially very stupid, and I need
you to either talk me out of it or give
(14:26):
me the green light. There's this incredibly attractive colleague who
I've been having serious sexual tension with for months. We've
been staying back late, working together, having long lunches, and
the flirting has reached dangerous levels.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Guys, I'm a little bit turned on.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like I'm turned on. I do it because at the
start of every like smutty novel I've ever.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Read, I know, I'm like keep going.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
We're in different departments, so no direct conflict of interest,
but everyone would definitely notice if we got together. What
if it doesn't work out and things get awkward? But
also what if I let fear stop me from something
that could be amazing. Has anyone successfully navigated an office
romance without it becoming a complete disaster. I need to
(15:10):
know if I should go for it or keep things
strictly professional, or this.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Is too much responsibility for us.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So this is a really really hard one because there
is so much at stake, and there is a lot
to be said for, you know, not letting sometimes your
personal desires undermine your professional reputation. And particularly as a woman,
I think there are much bigger consequences for women in
the workplace in this situation than they're often are for
(15:40):
male colleagues. But at the same time, I came from
an industry where all lawyers meet each other in the
workplace because they don't see anyone else, and because so
often nobody else understands the life that you're living and
the hours that you're working, and so there are so
many successful relationships and marriages and long lasting marriages because
(16:03):
you've met through a con text where your interests and
life is similar. So on the one hand, it's like
possibly the best breeding ground for you to meet someone
like minded. On the other hand, if it doesn't work out,
it could absolutely be a disaster because it's inescapable to
avoid a colleague versus avoiding some random in society. So
(16:25):
that's a really really hard one, And I think the
first thing is decide whether there's a difference between I'm
attracted to this colleague because I just want to sleep
with them, yeah, or I'm attracted to them because I
think there's a really meaningful connection, because the risk analysis
is very different if you just think they're hot and
like you think you might have a one night stand
versus I think this could turn into something like that's
(16:47):
the first decision.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I think, Oh, it's so true. This is really really hard.
And I'm the worst person to give advice to you
because I love flirting so much, so there's something in
me that's like, yeah, just go for it, it'll be
so fine, they'll be great, and then tell us about.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Me too, and I'm like, that's irresponsible or of advice.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I have dated not colleagues because I work in a
workplace that are all women, and I think that's very
beneficial to me because I could go quite crazy if
I had to work with men. But I have dated
a few people who have worked in the same industry,
and Sarah, you would know this media is a very
close industry, like everyone knows everyone, and I don't regret
(17:29):
either of my relationships I had with these men, but
I will say that I see them a lot, like
I see them a lot. I've seen them with their
new partners. I've seen them when they're single, and you
think you could probably go there again. It's just it
does become a very awkward kind of environment that you
have to navigate. Also, they dated like other people in
(17:51):
the industry that I also know, like, it can get
quite messy, and you do have to be very professional
about it, and you have to think about it in
a way that doesn't naturally come to you, like I
feel like with these situations, if it doesn't work out,
if you're dating someone like randomly, like from a dating app,
who like you will never see again, you give your
self permission to give yourself permission to act hurt, and
(18:13):
you give yourself permission to say things that you wouldn't
normally say to a colleague. And when it comes into
the workplace, you just can't do things like that. I
will say that if you exactly what you said, Sarah, like,
figure out what kind of dynamic it is. Because I
have heard so many successful stories of people ending up
with their colleagues, or people meeting someone at work and
getting married and having kids and having a beautiful life.
(18:36):
And there's a lot of amazing stories even in this workplace.
Immea which I think also can kind of push my
limit a little bit. But I will say that figure
out what kind of dynamic it is. Because when you're
dating a colleague, you can't just casually date them. You
can't date how you would normally date. You can't have situationships,
(18:57):
you can't flirt because you will get hurt. You have
to know straight away. And I've had this advice from
other people who've ended up in relationships with their colleagues.
You have to both be on the same page at
all times. You have to both be Okay, we're doing this,
we're in a relationship, or we're not doing this, We're
just going to be friends. You can't do the in between,
because that's where it gets really messy because you will
(19:17):
be seeing this person every day even if you don't date,
but you continue flirting. Imagine if they start dating someone
else and someone else in the workplace. You have to
see that every single day, and it is so heartbreaking
and so hurtful. And the other thing I will say is,
I'm not really sure what kind of job you have,
but I want you to consider is this a career
or is it just a job. If it's just a job,
(19:40):
you can have more fun with that, you can probably
risk it a bit. But if it's your career where
you see yourself in this workplace for a really long time,
where you see yourself working up the ladder or laterally
and you want to like explore this new job of yours,
that can also be a huge risk to your career
because you will act differently. And I know it's so
easy to say just go for it, because I know
(20:01):
you want to go for it so badly, and if
I were you, I' one hundred percent go for it.
But I'm trying to be responsible and say that if
this is a really important career to you, and if
you don't think it's worth it, then I would just
say be friends. Like it's so hard and it's so shitty,
but I would honestly just try to put it in
the back pocket and just be friends.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I also think if you've already been staying back late
and working together and having long lunches, like all of
those things are in a work context, And the fact
that you describe the flirting as dangerous, like it sounds
like there's a bit of an element of the fact
that it's forbidden. I wonder if it wasn't forbidden anymore
and it was out in the open, Like would it
(20:43):
even be interesting to you anymore? Like? Is the attraction
the fact that it is kind of dangerous and naughty?
And if it is, then you know, if you go
for it, you could ruin that altogether. So I think
you've really got to sit down and have a think
about is this a sexual thing or is this a
really emotional deep thing. If it's a really emotional deep thing,
(21:04):
it's obviously worth taking more risks than it is for
just a sexual fling. Then you have to think, yeah,
what am I risking? And I think the best way
to also look at things is what's the worst case scenario,
how badly could it go? And assume that it could happen,
and then think about whether you could cope with that
or not. If you couldn't, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh yeah, oh I feel mean, I feel like a
boring old nana. But I also this is so not
something I would do.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I mean, the question has anyone successfully navigated enough as romance?
I think absolutely they have. Yeah, they have for sure
is possible to do. And I think if you maybe
the first step would be don't stay back late working together.
Maybe take it out of the work context altogether. Why
don't you like have a coffee on a weekend or
do something that's not related to your workplace whatsoever, and
(21:53):
just see, like if there's a real spark, I think
you know, right, you know, if there's something that's irrepressible,
then maybe that will help you work out. Like I
think we could get married one day. Like, not that
you're going to know instantly, but if there's that little something,
then maybe it is that you have to work that
out first, because you don't want to risk everything off.
(22:14):
Just we worked late together and wanted to have sex
with each other, Like that could be a really fleeting.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
That's so true, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
And my other big thing is a quote that I
come back to all the time. Again, this is so
bad because I would obviously go for it, But if
I was giving smarter advice to someone else, my advice
would always be don't make permanent decisions based on temporary feelings.
So if you think this is even a straight as
a being temporary, don't make a permanent decision that could
(22:44):
ruin everything for you.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, but if there is a.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Chance that it could be more, you know, permanent, then
give it a little bit of breathing space but outside
the workplace and see, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I have a feeling it's not permanent because I'm just
rereading the question. And Ella did say everyone would definitely
notice if we got together, which makes me think that
you don't want them to notice, like you want this
to be kind of like a secretive thing, which is
also risky. I feel like all the successful office relationships
I've witnessed, they were immediately together and they immediately let
(23:16):
hr know, and they immediately told everyone just to get
it over and done with. It's the secretive ones that
I feel like you could be in dangerous waters because
you don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
So good luck.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I mean, I really hope you take this advice, but
also if you don't, that's none of our business. And
have fun, gal like yallo that to really enjoy yourself,
do what you want. God forbid. A girl has hobbies,
a girl enjoy alive.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's all we have for in box this week. If
you have a work question, please send it our way.
If you have a workplace drama, a career conundrum, or
office politics nightmares, we are here for it all. There
will be a link in our show notes for a
where you can submit your questions. You can leave your
name on them, or you can be completely anonymous if
you don't want anyone to find out itude. It's completely
(24:09):
your choice.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And don't miss us this Tuesday for a brand new
series of Beers Now with a brand new host. And
if you missed any of our previous episodes, they're all
right there in your feed waiting for you. We'll be
about solving more workplace conundrums next week.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Bye. Mamma.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm m Burnham and
this is your hr free zone for career questions, sticky
situations and everything in between.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned entrepreneur, here to
tackle your workplace to Lemma's head on with some proper
real talk.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
So this is your anonymous space to unpack everything that's
on your mind, from tricky team dynamics to startup stress
or nightmare managers. No names, no judgment, just real talk.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
M I'm particularly excited today because I feel like today's
episode is a bit juicier than normal. So today with
bringing you career advice about the hotly debated topic of
office romances. Should you follow your heart or should you
keep it strictly professional? And we'll also be chatting about
how to deal with when you're in full competition mode
with a colleague who's basically your work nemesis, which I'm
(01:08):
an a time. I'm super competitive, I've been in this situation.
But first, what happens when you land your dream job
but then realize it's not quite the fantasy you imagine?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So we actually got this question email to us, and
they asked to remain anonymous. They said, I'm feeling really
threatened by a colleague at work who has been in
the business longer than I have, but the two of
us are on similar ish levels. I hate feeling this insecure,
especially as I know he does not mean any ill
will and probably has no idea I feel this way.
(01:39):
Everyone in the industry knows who he is, but I'm
newer to it and still finding my feet. What advice
do you have?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So I have a.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Confession because I fear I have been this colleague before. Really, yeah,
I feel like in my job, I've been here for
a really really long time and media moves so fast,
and especially when I was in my early career, like
when I was about twenty two to twenty three, I
really honed in on this is my job, I'm the
(02:09):
best at it. Everyone else can fuck off. And I
feel like that was kind of admitted to anyone knew
who joined the business, and it was pretty obvious. So
the thing that kind of worked for me was firstly
someone just telling me to like get over yourself, like
I had.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Oh wait, you are the threatening colleague.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I was a threatening colleague. Yeah, I was this guy,
and I think I was aware of it, which makes
it even worse. I don't know if this guy's aware
of it, but I definitely was. My mum told me
to get over myself and to listen up, and that
the reason that my company was hiring more people was
to actually help me with my job. And for this
anonymous person, I would say, just befriend them, unless I,
(02:50):
like me, who's actually ware what they're doing, which I
don't think they are. I would say, just take them
out for lunch, have a coffee with them, like, get
to know them, ask how you can help with their
workload and vice versa, and I think they will slowly
realize that, oh, you're actually here to help me. It's
not like a competition kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I think it's so interesting that
you were the colleague. It was threatening, not threatened, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So small and young, so it was like a jump
scare for everyone.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But I feel like this dynamic would be so common
because there are definitely people who might be both at
the same level technically, but where one has sort of
a bigger profile and then the other one is a
little bit of a more quiet achiever. And that's not
to detract from either of them, like we're all just
different personalities. But I think if this particular anonymous questions
(03:43):
submitter is feeling threatened, I would, especially if it's the
actual person isn't meaning to threaten you, I would always
look at why do you feel like that way? What
is the cause of that? Is it in an as
he or she has mentioned, it's out of insecurity, it's
out of feeling like you don't belong. So I agree.
I think as you mentioned, the best advice is to
make an ally out of them them. If you've noticed
(04:07):
that they've got a bigger profile and everyone knows who
they are, emulate what they did to get there, like
hang around them, kind of take notes on what helped
them achieve the level of notoriety that they have and
you don't. Because if they're what you want to be,
then they're the best person to learn from. And especially
if he doesn't mean any ill will, then he probably
(04:27):
wants you to befriend him and kind of can take
on a little bit of a mentor role. And the
more that you work on that profile and work on
that area where you feel insecure, the less you'll feel insecure.
I always think where are my doubts, where are my
self doubts coming from? Or where's my imposter syndrome coming from?
And then how can I work on it? And the
more you work on it, the more it falls away.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, that's such good advice. Also, I would say that
when you join a new workplace, everything always is amplified
in your head because you're already so nervous, you already
feel like you have to prove your worth. So it
might not be coming across the same way that you
think it is coming across. To diminish this anonymous person's feelings,
but I would say that when I start a new job,
(05:11):
and a lot of my friends when they start a
new jobs, everything is always multiplied by ten because you're
in such a different environment and you're trying to like
find your footing. So I would say, just give yourself
a break.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And it's also really interesting that they mentioned that he
probably has no idea that they feel this way, and
so this would definitely be you have to make a
judgment call based on a particular person. But I'm a
big fan of just getting things out in the open.
Like I think I've said this in a couple of
other episodes. If you're nervous before a speaking gig, say it.
If you're nervous in an interview, say it. Like the
more that you can get those feelings out in the open,
(05:46):
I feel like that sort of helps do the opposite
of amplify them. It almost makes them smaller. Once you've
said it out loud, you might just say to him,
oh my gosh, I feel like everyone knows you. I
just feel so insecure sometimes because I'm a bit newer,
Like how did you get to where you got to?
That kind of takes the sting out of it, and
maybe he can talk you through it and.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
He also make him feel really good.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, yeah, he would love it. But he could also
have the opportunity then to turn around and say I
felt like that at the beginning, and this is what
I did.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Our next question. I feel like so many people will
have experience with this. It's all about regret and we
got this through our Instagram dms from Kate. Also, if
you want to submit any questions, there's a whole bunch
of links in a stro notes. You can email them
to us, or you can dm us on Instagram. You
can also be completely anonymous if you want to, Okay,
put a name on this one. And she says, I'm
(06:51):
three weeks into what I thought was my dream job
and I'm having serious bias remorse. The work is my
numbingly boring, and the.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
People feel really off.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I left a comfortable role where I was well liked
because I needed a challenge and was getting too cozy.
But now I'm wondering if I made a huge mistake.
I missed the safety of my old workplace so much
and know they take me back in a heartbeat, but
I also left for good reasons. How long should I
give it before admitting I've made a mistake? Is three
weeks too early to judge? Or should I trust my
(07:20):
gut instincts? Oh, this one hurts.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
And it's a such a tough situation. I truly think that,
no matter the environment, I mean, with a couple of exceptions,
that three weeks is probably too early to judge an
entire workplace and an entire job opportunity, because you have
to account for the fact that you have left somewhere
(07:46):
that was really comfortable. You have left somewhere where you
know the ropes and you felt really good and you
know the dynamics. So anywhere new, especially somewhere that's challenging you,
is meant to feel uncomfortable. Like most worthy, great new things,
you do feel a bit shitty at the start, and
that's kind of the growth phase. So I also wouldn't
(08:07):
recommend you stay somewhere that's you know, damaging to you either.
But I do think that three weeks is a very
tumultuous time for any new opportunity, So perhaps give yourself
a little bit of time to adjust to the newness
and give everyone else a little bit of time to
adjust to the newness. That's not necessarily the best time
to judge a new role, I think. I think it's
(08:28):
still very early days and things can change pretty rapidly
when you get into a groove.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And that's so true.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I wouldn't want you to look back and miss out
on something that could be amazing because you made the
call to early.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
One hundred percent. I also feel like it's such a
myth that the higher you go, the easier your job becomes,
or the more you love it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I feel like, I mean, it's the opposite.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's the opposite, right. I know so many people who
turn down promotions because they just love their job so
much and they see their job as just a job
that they're comfortable in, not a career, which is so fine.
You don't have to constantly follow career if you just
want to do a job that you love and you're
comfortable in and you enjoy it. And the other thing
to that is like you will always have to do
(09:13):
work that you don't love. So you've only been there
for three weeks, exactly what Sarah said, How can you
make it more enjoyable? Like find out the pockets that
you're not quite enjoying. How can you like build up
office morale? Is there a culture team that you can
take part in to vibe with the people more. I
would also say I have a friend who has a
very similar story where she was at a workplace that
(09:35):
she absolutely loved and adored, and she wanted more of
a challenge, so she moved to a completely different company.
Hated it there, so she started talking to people in
a previous company saying, is there away can come back?
They formed a role for her it was very similar
to her old role, and she decided to come back,
and then she regretted not speaking to her manager at
(09:55):
her new company first. Yeah, because it was only after
she put in all these placements did the manager at
her new company say, we're willing to change, We're willing
to give you a better we're willing to like work
on this. But it was too late. So I would say,
before you make any drastic moves, speak to your manager,
your current manager first, because is there a way that
they can help you sort out this new position where
(10:18):
it works for you, Because the last thing you want
is to then move back and then that role will
be given to someone else, and then you're regretted again,
and you can't just keep bouncing back and forth as
much as I feel like you want to.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And I think also the way that Kate expressed that
what she misses about the old workplace is the safety,
it's like, well, if that's the part that you're missing,
then you're not going to get safety in a new
workplace straight away. If that's the main reason for the discomfort,
then I definitely think it's too early, because safety is
what builds over time. You're not meant to feel that
(10:49):
in a new job. Whereas if the part that you
hate in the new job is like a toxic workplace environment,
or bullying or something you know, Like, I think you
really need to write down what exactly it is. Yeah,
that is giving you buyers remorse because the time that
you wait for it to fade will be differ I
think you can be super super patient with growing comfort
or a feeling of safety, but you shouldn't be patient
(11:11):
with your job being nothing like the job you applied for.
Like there's different time frames of waiting that I would
allow yourself. But I definitely think if you have the
chance to speak to someone about it, the sooner you
do that the better because they might not have realized
you're not having a good time. There might be a
lot they can do before you make the drastic jump
of going backwards. And the other thing is it's interesting
(11:32):
that if you left your old job for a reason
Kate said she left for good reasons, even if you
don't like the job you're in, maybe the right choice
isn't to go back to the old one. Maybe it's
to go to a different, new one. If that makes sense.
I think, don't just look at it as either here
or there. It could be maybe this job isn't right
for you, but maybe you look for something else, Like yeah,
so true, there's a lot more than just go back
(11:53):
to where you were before that was more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
One hundred percent. Oh, that's such a good point, or
even like is there another department in your current company
that you can move to? And also like jumping back
and forth, I feel like that's where you get into
it's an idea that your work becomes your home and
it's not still a workplace, Like you never know you
could go back to your old workplace and they could
completely restructure or change things around and become different. Workplaces
(12:17):
are constantly changing and evolving, and you like it now
in your head of like the exact place that is
right now and that could change in like a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
One hundred percent And a really really left of field
thought that I just had because this situation came up
for me recently. Not with workplaces, but look at everything
else in your life right now as well. Is this
three weeks that you've been having a really unhappy time
at the new job? Have you had anything else going
on in your life that's made you crave security? Have
you had other big changes? Are you going through relationship issues?
(12:50):
Do you have your periods? Like what else is happening?
In your life that could be rubbing off on the
way you feel about your job, because everything in your
life is interrelated. So I think three weeks is too
early to judge because it could be not the job's fault.
It might be, but it might not be. I think
it is just too early, So maybe give yourself a deadline,
like I will wait another X amount of weeks before
(13:11):
I judge it again, just like you would like dating,
you don't kind of go on one. I mean no,
that's a bad example because sometimes they are big red flags.
But like I just think, give it a little bit
more time.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, the period point is so true. I'm like, I'm
a completely different person in my lue tell phase.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right, Like if I was in my luteal phase, I'd
walk away from everything, Like I'm bawling my eyes out.
Nothing is making me happy, So it's not the job's fault.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
After the break, we are helping a listener navigate serious
workplace chemistry and months of dangerous flirting. We'll be breaking
down office romance when it's worth the risk and when
it's a complete career sabotage. Okay, So we got this
(14:05):
very juicy DM from Ella, and I think That's probably
one of my favorite questions we've ever gotten in this podcast.
It's so juicy. So she says, I'm about to do
she hasn't even done it yet, She's about to I'm
about to do something potentially very stupid, and I need
you to either talk me out of it or give
(14:26):
me the green light. There's this incredibly attractive colleague who
I've been having serious sexual tension with for months. We've
been staying back late, working together, having long lunches, and
the flirting has reached dangerous levels.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Guys, I'm a little bit turned on.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like I'm turned on. I do it because at the
start of every like smutty novel I've ever.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Read, I know, I'm like keep going.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
We're in different departments, so no direct conflict of interest,
but everyone would definitely notice if we got together. What
if it doesn't work out and things get awkward? But
also what if I let fear stop me from something
that could be amazing. Has anyone successfully navigated an office
romance without it becoming a complete disaster. I need to
(15:10):
know if I should go for it or keep things
strictly professional, or this.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Is too much responsibility for us.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So this is a really really hard one because there
is so much at stake, and there is a lot
to be said for, you know, not letting sometimes your
personal desires undermine your professional reputation. And particularly as a woman,
I think there are much bigger consequences for women in
the workplace in this situation than they're often are for
(15:40):
male colleagues. But at the same time, I came from
an industry where all lawyers meet each other in the
workplace because they don't see anyone else, and because so
often nobody else understands the life that you're living and
the hours that you're working, and so there are so
many successful relationships and marriages and long lasting marriages because
(16:03):
you've met through a con text where your interests and
life is similar. So on the one hand, it's like
possibly the best breeding ground for you to meet someone
like minded. On the other hand, if it doesn't work out,
it could absolutely be a disaster because it's inescapable to
avoid a colleague versus avoiding some random in society. So
(16:25):
that's a really really hard one, And I think the
first thing is decide whether there's a difference between I'm
attracted to this colleague because I just want to sleep
with them, yeah, or I'm attracted to them because I
think there's a really meaningful connection, because the risk analysis
is very different if you just think they're hot and
like you think you might have a one night stand
versus I think this could turn into something like that's
(16:47):
the first decision.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I think, Oh, it's so true. This is really really hard.
And I'm the worst person to give advice to you
because I love flirting so much, so there's something in
me that's like, yeah, just go for it, it'll be
so fine, they'll be great, and then tell us about.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Me too, and I'm like, that's irresponsible or of advice.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I have dated not colleagues because I work in a
workplace that are all women, and I think that's very
beneficial to me because I could go quite crazy if
I had to work with men. But I have dated
a few people who have worked in the same industry,
and Sarah, you would know this media is a very
close industry, like everyone knows everyone, and I don't regret
(17:29):
either of my relationships I had with these men, but
I will say that I see them a lot, like
I see them a lot. I've seen them with their
new partners. I've seen them when they're single, and you
think you could probably go there again. It's just it
does become a very awkward kind of environment that you
have to navigate. Also, they dated like other people in
(17:51):
the industry that I also know, like, it can get
quite messy, and you do have to be very professional
about it, and you have to think about it in
a way that doesn't naturally come to you, like I
feel like with these situations, if it doesn't work out,
if you're dating someone like randomly, like from a dating app,
who like you will never see again, you give your
self permission to give yourself permission to act hurt, and
(18:13):
you give yourself permission to say things that you wouldn't
normally say to a colleague. And when it comes into
the workplace, you just can't do things like that. I
will say that if you exactly what you said, Sarah, like,
figure out what kind of dynamic it is. Because I
have heard so many successful stories of people ending up
with their colleagues, or people meeting someone at work and
getting married and having kids and having a beautiful life.
(18:36):
And there's a lot of amazing stories even in this workplace.
Immea which I think also can kind of push my
limit a little bit. But I will say that figure
out what kind of dynamic it is. Because when you're
dating a colleague, you can't just casually date them. You
can't date how you would normally date. You can't have situationships,
(18:57):
you can't flirt because you will get hurt. You have
to know straight away. And I've had this advice from
other people who've ended up in relationships with their colleagues.
You have to both be on the same page at
all times. You have to both be Okay, we're doing this,
we're in a relationship, or we're not doing this, We're
just going to be friends. You can't do the in between,
because that's where it gets really messy because you will
(19:17):
be seeing this person every day even if you don't date,
but you continue flirting. Imagine if they start dating someone
else and someone else in the workplace. You have to
see that every single day, and it is so heartbreaking
and so hurtful. And the other thing I will say is,
I'm not really sure what kind of job you have,
but I want you to consider is this a career
or is it just a job. If it's just a job,
(19:40):
you can have more fun with that, you can probably
risk it a bit. But if it's your career where
you see yourself in this workplace for a really long time,
where you see yourself working up the ladder or laterally
and you want to like explore this new job of yours,
that can also be a huge risk to your career
because you will act differently. And I know it's so
easy to say just go for it, because I know
(20:01):
you want to go for it so badly, and if
I were you, I' one hundred percent go for it.
But I'm trying to be responsible and say that if
this is a really important career to you, and if
you don't think it's worth it, then I would just
say be friends. Like it's so hard and it's so shitty,
but I would honestly just try to put it in
the back pocket and just be friends.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I also think if you've already been staying back late
and working together and having long lunches, like all of
those things are in a work context, And the fact
that you describe the flirting as dangerous, like it sounds
like there's a bit of an element of the fact
that it's forbidden. I wonder if it wasn't forbidden anymore
and it was out in the open, Like would it
(20:43):
even be interesting to you anymore? Like? Is the attraction
the fact that it is kind of dangerous and naughty?
And if it is, then you know, if you go
for it, you could ruin that altogether. So I think
you've really got to sit down and have a think
about is this a sexual thing or is this a
really emotional deep thing. If it's a really emotional deep thing,
(21:04):
it's obviously worth taking more risks than it is for
just a sexual fling. Then you have to think, yeah,
what am I risking? And I think the best way
to also look at things is what's the worst case scenario,
how badly could it go? And assume that it could happen,
and then think about whether you could cope with that
or not. If you couldn't, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Oh yeah, oh I feel mean, I feel like a
boring old nana. But I also this is so not
something I would do.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I mean, the question has anyone successfully navigated enough as romance?
I think absolutely they have. Yeah, they have for sure
is possible to do. And I think if you maybe
the first step would be don't stay back late working together.
Maybe take it out of the work context altogether. Why
don't you like have a coffee on a weekend or
do something that's not related to your workplace whatsoever, and
(21:53):
just see, like if there's a real spark, I think
you know, right, you know, if there's something that's irrepressible,
then maybe that will help you work out. Like I
think we could get married one day. Like, not that
you're going to know instantly, but if there's that little something,
then maybe it is that you have to work that
out first, because you don't want to risk everything off.
(22:14):
Just we worked late together and wanted to have sex
with each other, Like that could be a really fleeting.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
That's so true, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
And my other big thing is a quote that I
come back to all the time. Again, this is so
bad because I would obviously go for it, But if
I was giving smarter advice to someone else, my advice
would always be don't make permanent decisions based on temporary feelings.
So if you think this is even a straight as
a being temporary, don't make a permanent decision that could
(22:44):
ruin everything for you.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, but if there is a.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Chance that it could be more, you know, permanent, then
give it a little bit of breathing space but outside
the workplace and see, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I have a feeling it's not permanent because I'm just
rereading the question. And Ella did say everyone would definitely
notice if we got together, which makes me think that
you don't want them to notice, like you want this
to be kind of like a secretive thing, which is
also risky. I feel like all the successful office relationships
I've witnessed, they were immediately together and they immediately let
(23:16):
hr know, and they immediately told everyone just to get
it over and done with. It's the secretive ones that
I feel like you could be in dangerous waters because
you don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
So good luck.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I mean, I really hope you take this advice, but
also if you don't, that's none of our business. And
have fun, gal like yallo that to really enjoy yourself,
do what you want. God forbid. A girl has hobbies,
a girl enjoy alive.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's all we have for in box this week. If
you have a work question, please send it our way.
If you have a workplace drama, a career conundrum, or
office politics nightmares, we are here for it all. There
will be a link in our show notes for a
where you can submit your questions. You can leave your
name on them, or you can be completely anonymous if
you don't want anyone to find out itude. It's completely
(24:09):
your choice.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And don't miss us this Tuesday for a brand new
series of Beers Now with a brand new host. And
if you missed any of our previous episodes, they're all
right there in your feed waiting for you. We'll be
about solving more workplace conundrums next week.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Bye. Mamma.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
this podcast is recorded on
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