June 11, 2025 • 14 mins
Is your boss treating your annual leave requests like personal betrayals? This week on BIZ Inbox, Em Vernem and Sarah Davidson dive into the art of taking time off without the side order of workplace guilt.
Then we solve the surprisingly tricky etiquette of professional voicemail greetings (yes, they still matter!), and reveal the one word that's undermining women's authority in meetings everywhere – you probably said it thirteen times today without even noticing.
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your go-to workplace advice podcast where awkward career questions get real-world solutions. The place to learn how to stop apologising, to set boundaries and to present yourself confidently.
If you want your work life issue solved, send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can be anon!
Get more Sarah Davidson in her sensational podcast Seize The Yay!
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HOSTS: Sarah Davidson and Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm m Vannam and
this is your judgment free zone for career conundrums.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
And I'm Sarah Davidson ready to dive into some workplace
real talk.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So these biz Inbox episodes are your anonymous career confessional boots.
Whether you need advice on office politics, business building wisdom,
or just want event about your nightmare boss, we are
here for it. And the best part is that you
can be completely anonymous if you choose to do so.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
M Today we're solving professional voicemail awkwardness and breaking the
over apologizing habit that has a choke hold on me,
but that also is holding so many other people's careers back.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Sarah, we have to talk about annual leave drama because
it is very, very intense. I feel like so many
people have different opinions when it comes to annual leave,
and I feel like we need to break it all down.
We got this question from an anonymous person and she said,
every time I request annuallyve my boss, so hys dramatically
(01:24):
like I've asked her to donate a kidney. Then while
I'm away, I get at least three quick question messages
a day. I've got a two week Barlei trip coming up,
and I'm dreading the guilt trip. How do I firmly
say I will be drinking cocktails, not checking emails without
tanking my career? Oh my god, I feel so bad
(01:45):
for this person.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh my god, it's so stressful. So I've been thinking
about this a lot lately with the story in the
news headlines about the boss canceling and employees leave and
then demanding that they came in or they'd be fired.
So my legal brain goes straight too, firstly, like can
a boss cancel your leave? And secondly can they fire
(02:08):
you if you don't come in? So those are kind
of my first questions, and just for anyone out there. Obviously,
it all depends on your situation and we could do
a whole podcast on this, But if an employer did
ever try to fire you for not returning from leaves
that they canceled, you may actually have grounds to file
an unfair dismissal claim.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So basically, if you get fired for something that is
unfair or unreasonable, if it's harsh or like unjust, and
usually if you've been you know, had your leave approved
and then taken away and then you're sort of just
demanded to turn up the next day. That would be
considered pretty unreasonable. You can actually go to the Fair
Work Commission. So firstly, for anyone who's been in that
(02:50):
kind of situation, please google the Fair Work on Bardsman,
because employees have rights, Like I didn't know this back
in the day, but you guys have rights. So that's
my first thing that I wanted to set out that
there's lots of information out there that you can go to.
It's not just like your boss is the be all
and end all. So that's the first point. And then
the second point is it's still so common to feel
(03:12):
an acute sense of guilt when you do want to
take time off and really hard to be assertive about boundaries.
So gosh, I mean, my biggest tactics would be to
have you out of office on as a gentle reminder.
You need, like as many psychological reminders that you're away
as possible, maybe like on slack. I know, you can
change your status to the fact that you're unavailable, like
(03:34):
those kinds. Gently reinforce your boundaries to people, to just
remind them like I'm actually not here. Preparation and communication
of your expectations before you go also really helps. So
delegating all of your cases, whatever they may be, like
delegating all of your workflow tasks can help because then
you can just flick back an email and say, I've
(03:56):
already delegated this to blah, and then your boss kind
of has no choice but to leave you alone. But
my biggest tip here is draft the response to your
boss in advance before you go on your holiday, so
you've thought about the exact language that you want to use,
like the right amount of assertive. You don't want to
be too firm, you don't want to be too gentle,
(04:18):
and you don't want to be making those decisions when
you're on holiday. You want to have already thought about
that and have it ready to copy and paste if
you know what's going to happen, and then you can
just flick it off when the emails come in without
ruining your holiday. So that's kind of how I would
manage it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh that's so smart. Like I feel so much for
the anonymous submitter here, because it's one of those things,
especially where if you love your job, you don't want
to ruffle any feathers, but you also need a break,
and you have the right to take that break, Like
you legally have the right to take that break, and
you should be. But I also think exactly what you
said having a plan before for that message, because you
(04:53):
do not want to be sending that message when you're
like three cocktails.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
In, Yeah, and also agonizing, like spending your precious time
that you have earned. Yeah, agonizing over like what wording
do I use? Like I agonize over the right wording
at the best of times. Let alone when it's to
my boss, and let alone when it's setting boundaries which
you're already uncomfortable to set. I think the other thing
is you do have to sometimes accept that some bosses
(05:17):
will throw a guilt trip on you kind of can't
do anything about that, Like they might approve your leave
but then still give you a hard time about it,
and you can, of course communicate that that makes you
feel uncomfortable. But sometimes it's better to work on you
becoming impervious to them trying to make you feel guilty,
rather than trying to change their behavior if it becomes
to like a ruffling feather situation. Sometimes there are times
(05:40):
where you're like, look, they're going to give me a
hard time, but I've just got to let it fall
off my shoulders, Like I've just got to become like
a wall of steel and just let it brush off
me because I know I'll be in Balley shortly and
that's my time. But it is hard. It's hard to
change a boss's behavior without like causing a ruckus. So
I do sympathize so much.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh and good luck and also enjoy bally. I am
very very jealous, TECHNI if you so. This next question
is one that I actually have never thought about personally,
but it's so interesting. It's from Kelly, and she says,
I've just finished Unie and I'm diving into the job
market for the first time. This might sound silly, but
I'm genuinely stumped about voicemail etiquette. What should my voicemail
(06:24):
greeting sound like to make a good impression on potential employers? Also,
once I actually land a job, should I mention my
workplace in my voicemail greeting? Or is that unnecessary? This
is so sweet, It's.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Like it's really wholesome.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's so wholesome, Like this is someone like Kelly just
genuinely wants to make a really good impression for her
first job, and I'm all here for It's something I
completely did not think about when I was applying for
jobs for the first time. I'm pretty sure my voicemail
was one of those like, hey, it's em and then
silence and then gotcha you thought I was here. I
(07:00):
wasn't imagine all the potential employees I could have heard
that embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh my god. I actually kind of forgot voicemail existed
until this question. There probably is our whole body of
work on official voicemail etiquette. I wouldn't call myself an
expert on that because I haven't thought about it that much,
but my advice would just be, I think keep it
quite simple. I don't think anyone is getting hired because
(07:26):
their voicemail is so good. Like I don't think that
that's the area that is getting you the job. It
might be the reason why you don't. Not that you
don't get a job completely, but you could make a
bad impression. I think it could go that way. So
you're not necessarily going to become an asset because your
voicemail's amazing, but you might ruin your chances if it's
not a good one. So I would say, like keep
(07:48):
it very short and sweet, like give them the necessary details,
because above all, if you're implying for jobs, you want
them to know how to get onto you, like if
it's to tell you something good, or if it's to
offer you an extra interview, you don't want to miss it.
So I think the really big things are communicate firstly
your name so that they know they've reached the right person.
Then explain you know you can't get to the phone,
(08:09):
but just give them the right place to contact you instead,
like either leave your name number in a message and
I'll get back to you, or send me an email
or whatever you're preferred, Like if you know that you're
not the kind of person whoever answers your voicemail, put
your email address in there for sure, because then you'll
never miss an opportunity, I think. But I think just
don't go into too much more detail, like use it
(08:30):
as a concierge. You want them to either leave you
a note or redirect to somewhere else, and then don't
give yourself too many other chances to screw it up.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Like just short and sweet, and I think having your
actual workplace in your voicemail greeting is unnecessary, especially if
it's your personal phone as well. I mean it could
be different if you're working customer service or in sales,
but also if you do work in those professions, like
the person calling, you should know who you are and
like where you work, like it should be pretty obvious.
(09:01):
So I think if you're doing a combination of work
phone personal phone, I don't you need to put your
workplace in it. Like your employees might be very impressed,
but it's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, that's very diligent.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
This last question hits so close to home for me
because it's something I all always used to do, and
it's from an anonymous emitter, but it literally could me.
She said. My colleague counted that I said sorry the
word sorry thirteen times in one meeting last week. Brackets modifying.
I apologize when someone bumps into me, when the printer jams,
(09:40):
even when I'm asking for things that are literally my job.
It's like a verbal tick I can't control. How do
I stop undermining myself with this constant apologizing. Now I
am a constant apologizer. It's just one of those six
and I wouldn't even say I'm an apologist person like,
it's not my personality type to keep apologizing. It's just
(10:00):
one of those words that has become a habitual word
that I constantly say. And you have to read this
message that made me stop saying I'm sorry all the
time because I have a mentor here at mamamea named Ruth,
and I was late in submitting a piece of content
to her and it wasn't my fault that it was
a late submission, and she knew it wasn't my fault,
(10:21):
and I need to read out this reply she said,
never apologize if something is filed later than you attended.
Only ever apologize if you've cocked up a delayed piece
of content is brackets. Thanks for your patience, because unless
someone has been having a siesta, which I'm completely here
for this, by the way, it will only be delayed
because of circumstances outside of your control. Women say sorry
(10:43):
all the time, and we bloody shouldn't. And after that message, like,
I immediately stop saying sorry, Like it's one of those
things for me personally that I had to be aware.
So it did feel like kind of like training my
brain out of it, and it works better when you're
typing on your computer, like a slight message or an email,
than it does in person. In person, it's harder to
train yourself out of it because it comes so naturally.
(11:05):
But there's been so many times since I received this
message from Ruth where I've been messaging people and I've
had to reread my message and take out all that
I'm sorries because there are so many that you are
probably doing that you don't even realize you're doing.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And I love that the way this question was framed
was using the word undermine, because I think you are
subtly undermining yourself by accepting responsibility without even realizing that
that's the position you're putting yourself into in relation to
the situation. You're kind of just saying, well, it doesn't
even matter. I'm accepting that this was my fault, so
I'll apologize preemptively, almost, And it is such a tick
(11:39):
like it's a reflex, it's built in to our I
don't know whether it's like to diffuse a situation or
I think, yeah, like you said, you just become so
automated it just comes out of your mouth. And I
think one of the most powerful things for me was
realizing that you can train yourself out of it. And
it's the same with like My example is, when I
(12:00):
was training to be a lawyer, you get told that
of all things in a court that you need to be,
it's persuasive. Whatever your case is, whoever you're acting for,
you need to be persuasive. And so the word undermine
really stood out to me because the whole point of
being persuasive is that you never undermine your argument, You
never make yourself look weaker. You always have to be
making yourself look stronger. And certain words undermine you. So
(12:24):
not just sorry, but every time you stop and pause
and look unsure or uncertain, even though you're just buying
time to think it's such a natural reflex, it makes
you look weaker. It undermines you. And so I had
to train myself, Like you said, every time I heard
the word um, it was almost like putting an electric
shock collar on and to be like, no, no, don't
(12:45):
use that word, and like you replace it with something else.
So I've kind of done the same thing with sorry.
It's almost like had to trip myself up every time
I say it and go, oh, I didn't actually mean sorry,
And then reframe it, like you said, say I meant
thank you for your patience, or I meant because you
can't delete things in real life. If you've said sorry
to someone while you're practicing getting rid of it, you
can't delete that thing. So I feel like you just
(13:06):
catch yourself reframe it into a different kind of expression.
And the more you practice, the more easier it gets
to not just default to sorry all the time. And
it's so true. You have a lot more confidence when
you're not apologizing all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So true. And it is really hard, like I want
to say, it is really hard, and you do feel
like a bitch, But I promise you no one is
thinking about you that much. Like no one is thinking,
oh my god, I can't believe she didn't say sorry,
Like no one's thinking, yeah, it's all in your head.
But if you do actually mess up and it is
your fault, that's when you say sorry.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah. And like, I'm just such a person of extremes
at one end, I'm either saying sorry for things that
I'm absolutely not responsible for, like fifty five times in
a row, or when it is my fault, I'm like
trying to work out a way to word it. That
doesn't involve saying sorry, Like to my husband, I'm like no,
but actually, see I know that you think that I
was the reason, but like it actually was like the
(14:00):
wind which caused a car to hit the curb by itself,
like we live it to extremes.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's so true. I thought that was the best question
to end on, because we are not sorry about this.
Thank you so much for helping us clear our biz inbox.
If you have a work question, send it our way.
You'll find a link to submit your questions in our
show notes. Tell us your name and story, or you
can remain completely anonymous.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
It is completely your choice, and if you missed any
of our episodes, just scroll back in your feed. We'll
be back in abyez inbox next week.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Bye see ya. Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of
land and waters that this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to biz Inbox. I'm m Vannam and
this is your judgment free zone for career conundrums.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
And I'm Sarah Davidson ready to dive into some workplace
real talk.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
So these biz Inbox episodes are your anonymous career confessional boots.
Whether you need advice on office politics, business building wisdom,
or just want event about your nightmare boss, we are
here for it. And the best part is that you
can be completely anonymous if you choose to do so.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
M Today we're solving professional voicemail awkwardness and breaking the
over apologizing habit that has a choke hold on me,
but that also is holding so many other people's careers back.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Sarah, we have to talk about annual leave drama because
it is very, very intense. I feel like so many
people have different opinions when it comes to annual leave,
and I feel like we need to break it all down.
We got this question from an anonymous person and she said,
every time I request annuallyve my boss, so hys dramatically
(01:24):
like I've asked her to donate a kidney. Then while
I'm away, I get at least three quick question messages
a day. I've got a two week Barlei trip coming up,
and I'm dreading the guilt trip. How do I firmly
say I will be drinking cocktails, not checking emails without
tanking my career? Oh my god, I feel so bad
(01:45):
for this person.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh my god, it's so stressful. So I've been thinking
about this a lot lately with the story in the
news headlines about the boss canceling and employees leave and
then demanding that they came in or they'd be fired.
So my legal brain goes straight too, firstly, like can
a boss cancel your leave? And secondly can they fire
(02:08):
you if you don't come in? So those are kind
of my first questions, and just for anyone out there. Obviously,
it all depends on your situation and we could do
a whole podcast on this, But if an employer did
ever try to fire you for not returning from leaves
that they canceled, you may actually have grounds to file
an unfair dismissal claim.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So basically, if you get fired for something that is
unfair or unreasonable, if it's harsh or like unjust, and
usually if you've been you know, had your leave approved
and then taken away and then you're sort of just
demanded to turn up the next day. That would be
considered pretty unreasonable. You can actually go to the Fair
Work Commission. So firstly, for anyone who's been in that
(02:50):
kind of situation, please google the Fair Work on Bardsman,
because employees have rights, Like I didn't know this back
in the day, but you guys have rights. So that's
my first thing that I wanted to set out that
there's lots of information out there that you can go to.
It's not just like your boss is the be all
and end all. So that's the first point. And then
the second point is it's still so common to feel
(03:12):
an acute sense of guilt when you do want to
take time off and really hard to be assertive about boundaries.
So gosh, I mean, my biggest tactics would be to
have you out of office on as a gentle reminder.
You need, like as many psychological reminders that you're away
as possible, maybe like on slack. I know, you can
change your status to the fact that you're unavailable, like
(03:34):
those kinds. Gently reinforce your boundaries to people, to just
remind them like I'm actually not here. Preparation and communication
of your expectations before you go also really helps. So
delegating all of your cases, whatever they may be, like
delegating all of your workflow tasks can help because then
you can just flick back an email and say, I've
(03:56):
already delegated this to blah, and then your boss kind
of has no choice but to leave you alone. But
my biggest tip here is draft the response to your
boss in advance before you go on your holiday, so
you've thought about the exact language that you want to use,
like the right amount of assertive. You don't want to
be too firm, you don't want to be too gentle,
(04:18):
and you don't want to be making those decisions when
you're on holiday. You want to have already thought about
that and have it ready to copy and paste if
you know what's going to happen, and then you can
just flick it off when the emails come in without
ruining your holiday. So that's kind of how I would
manage it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh that's so smart. Like I feel so much for
the anonymous submitter here, because it's one of those things,
especially where if you love your job, you don't want
to ruffle any feathers, but you also need a break,
and you have the right to take that break, Like
you legally have the right to take that break, and
you should be. But I also think exactly what you
said having a plan before for that message, because you
(04:53):
do not want to be sending that message when you're
like three cocktails.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
In, Yeah, and also agonizing, like spending your precious time
that you have earned. Yeah, agonizing over like what wording
do I use? Like I agonize over the right wording
at the best of times. Let alone when it's to
my boss, and let alone when it's setting boundaries which
you're already uncomfortable to set. I think the other thing
is you do have to sometimes accept that some bosses
(05:17):
will throw a guilt trip on you kind of can't
do anything about that, Like they might approve your leave
but then still give you a hard time about it,
and you can, of course communicate that that makes you
feel uncomfortable. But sometimes it's better to work on you
becoming impervious to them trying to make you feel guilty,
rather than trying to change their behavior if it becomes
to like a ruffling feather situation. Sometimes there are times
(05:40):
where you're like, look, they're going to give me a
hard time, but I've just got to let it fall
off my shoulders, Like I've just got to become like
a wall of steel and just let it brush off
me because I know I'll be in Balley shortly and
that's my time. But it is hard. It's hard to
change a boss's behavior without like causing a ruckus. So
I do sympathize so much.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Oh and good luck and also enjoy bally. I am
very very jealous, TECHNI if you so. This next question
is one that I actually have never thought about personally,
but it's so interesting. It's from Kelly, and she says,
I've just finished Unie and I'm diving into the job
market for the first time. This might sound silly, but
I'm genuinely stumped about voicemail etiquette. What should my voicemail
(06:24):
greeting sound like to make a good impression on potential employers? Also,
once I actually land a job, should I mention my
workplace in my voicemail greeting? Or is that unnecessary? This
is so sweet, It's.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Like it's really wholesome.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's so wholesome, Like this is someone like Kelly just
genuinely wants to make a really good impression for her
first job, and I'm all here for It's something I
completely did not think about when I was applying for
jobs for the first time. I'm pretty sure my voicemail
was one of those like, hey, it's em and then
silence and then gotcha you thought I was here. I
(07:00):
wasn't imagine all the potential employees I could have heard
that embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh my god. I actually kind of forgot voicemail existed
until this question. There probably is our whole body of
work on official voicemail etiquette. I wouldn't call myself an
expert on that because I haven't thought about it that much,
but my advice would just be, I think keep it
quite simple. I don't think anyone is getting hired because
(07:26):
their voicemail is so good. Like I don't think that
that's the area that is getting you the job. It
might be the reason why you don't. Not that you
don't get a job completely, but you could make a
bad impression. I think it could go that way. So
you're not necessarily going to become an asset because your
voicemail's amazing, but you might ruin your chances if it's
not a good one. So I would say, like keep
(07:48):
it very short and sweet, like give them the necessary details,
because above all, if you're implying for jobs, you want
them to know how to get onto you, like if
it's to tell you something good, or if it's to
offer you an extra interview, you don't want to miss it.
So I think the really big things are communicate firstly
your name so that they know they've reached the right person.
Then explain you know you can't get to the phone,
(08:09):
but just give them the right place to contact you instead,
like either leave your name number in a message and
I'll get back to you, or send me an email
or whatever you're preferred, Like if you know that you're
not the kind of person whoever answers your voicemail, put
your email address in there for sure, because then you'll
never miss an opportunity, I think. But I think just
don't go into too much more detail, like use it
(08:30):
as a concierge. You want them to either leave you
a note or redirect to somewhere else, and then don't
give yourself too many other chances to screw it up.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Like just short and sweet, and I think having your
actual workplace in your voicemail greeting is unnecessary, especially if
it's your personal phone as well. I mean it could
be different if you're working customer service or in sales,
but also if you do work in those professions, like
the person calling, you should know who you are and
like where you work, like it should be pretty obvious.
(09:01):
So I think if you're doing a combination of work
phone personal phone, I don't you need to put your
workplace in it. Like your employees might be very impressed,
but it's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, that's very diligent.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
This last question hits so close to home for me
because it's something I all always used to do, and
it's from an anonymous emitter, but it literally could me.
She said. My colleague counted that I said sorry the
word sorry thirteen times in one meeting last week. Brackets modifying.
I apologize when someone bumps into me, when the printer jams,
(09:40):
even when I'm asking for things that are literally my job.
It's like a verbal tick I can't control. How do
I stop undermining myself with this constant apologizing. Now I
am a constant apologizer. It's just one of those six
and I wouldn't even say I'm an apologist person like,
it's not my personality type to keep apologizing. It's just
(10:00):
one of those words that has become a habitual word
that I constantly say. And you have to read this
message that made me stop saying I'm sorry all the
time because I have a mentor here at mamamea named Ruth,
and I was late in submitting a piece of content
to her and it wasn't my fault that it was
a late submission, and she knew it wasn't my fault,
(10:21):
and I need to read out this reply she said,
never apologize if something is filed later than you attended.
Only ever apologize if you've cocked up a delayed piece
of content is brackets. Thanks for your patience, because unless
someone has been having a siesta, which I'm completely here
for this, by the way, it will only be delayed
because of circumstances outside of your control. Women say sorry
(10:43):
all the time, and we bloody shouldn't. And after that message, like,
I immediately stop saying sorry, Like it's one of those
things for me personally that I had to be aware.
So it did feel like kind of like training my
brain out of it, and it works better when you're
typing on your computer, like a slight message or an email,
than it does in person. In person, it's harder to
train yourself out of it because it comes so naturally.
(11:05):
But there's been so many times since I received this
message from Ruth where I've been messaging people and I've
had to reread my message and take out all that
I'm sorries because there are so many that you are
probably doing that you don't even realize you're doing.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And I love that the way this question was framed
was using the word undermine, because I think you are
subtly undermining yourself by accepting responsibility without even realizing that
that's the position you're putting yourself into in relation to
the situation. You're kind of just saying, well, it doesn't
even matter. I'm accepting that this was my fault, so
I'll apologize preemptively, almost, And it is such a tick
(11:39):
like it's a reflex, it's built in to our I
don't know whether it's like to diffuse a situation or
I think, yeah, like you said, you just become so
automated it just comes out of your mouth. And I
think one of the most powerful things for me was
realizing that you can train yourself out of it. And
it's the same with like My example is, when I
(12:00):
was training to be a lawyer, you get told that
of all things in a court that you need to be,
it's persuasive. Whatever your case is, whoever you're acting for,
you need to be persuasive. And so the word undermine
really stood out to me because the whole point of
being persuasive is that you never undermine your argument, You
never make yourself look weaker. You always have to be
making yourself look stronger. And certain words undermine you. So
(12:24):
not just sorry, but every time you stop and pause
and look unsure or uncertain, even though you're just buying
time to think it's such a natural reflex, it makes
you look weaker. It undermines you. And so I had
to train myself, Like you said, every time I heard
the word um, it was almost like putting an electric
shock collar on and to be like, no, no, don't
(12:45):
use that word, and like you replace it with something else.
So I've kind of done the same thing with sorry.
It's almost like had to trip myself up every time
I say it and go, oh, I didn't actually mean sorry,
And then reframe it, like you said, say I meant
thank you for your patience, or I meant because you
can't delete things in real life. If you've said sorry
to someone while you're practicing getting rid of it, you
can't delete that thing. So I feel like you just
(13:06):
catch yourself reframe it into a different kind of expression.
And the more you practice, the more easier it gets
to not just default to sorry all the time. And
it's so true. You have a lot more confidence when
you're not apologizing all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So true. And it is really hard, like I want
to say, it is really hard, and you do feel
like a bitch, But I promise you no one is
thinking about you that much. Like no one is thinking,
oh my god, I can't believe she didn't say sorry,
Like no one's thinking, yeah, it's all in your head.
But if you do actually mess up and it is
your fault, that's when you say sorry.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah. And like, I'm just such a person of extremes
at one end, I'm either saying sorry for things that
I'm absolutely not responsible for, like fifty five times in
a row, or when it is my fault, I'm like
trying to work out a way to word it. That
doesn't involve saying sorry, Like to my husband, I'm like no,
but actually, see I know that you think that I
was the reason, but like it actually was like the
(14:00):
wind which caused a car to hit the curb by itself,
like we live it to extremes.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's so true. I thought that was the best question
to end on, because we are not sorry about this.
Thank you so much for helping us clear our biz inbox.
If you have a work question, send it our way.
You'll find a link to submit your questions in our
show notes. Tell us your name and story, or you
can remain completely anonymous.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
It is completely your choice, and if you missed any
of our episodes, just scroll back in your feed. We'll
be back in abyez inbox next week.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Bye see ya. Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of
land and waters that this podcast is recorded on
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