September 3, 2025 • 20 mins
Been thrown into running team meetings without a clue how to actually run them? Stressing about whether to mention that decade-old school captain role on your resume? Or maybe you're overthinking the "proper" way to call in sick at 3am when you're genuinely unwell?
This week, we're tackling three workplace dilemmas that will have you nodding along going "yup, I've definitely been there" - from meeting management that actually works to resume anxiety relief, plus the real protocol for sick days without the guilt.
What you'll learn:
• Meeting Management That Actually Works: Why agendas are your secret weapon, how to assign roles so people engage instead of zone out, and the psychology trick that makes you the facilitator, not the bad guy
• Resume Reality Check: What recruiters actually scan for in 2025, why you need different versions for different roles, and how to leverage LinkedIn as your detailed story while keeping resumes conversational
• Sick Day Confidence Script: The timing that actually matters, how much detail to share (spoiler: not much), and why women especially need to stop feeling guilty about using entitled leave
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your go-to workplace advice podcast where awkward career questions get real-world solutions.
Got office politics nightmares or boss-from-hell situations? Send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain completely anonymous!
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HOSTS: Sarah Davidson and Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Sarah Davidson has been sharing her career wisdom with us, and now she's officially here to stay. She's joining BIZ Inbox full-time as co-host alongside Em Vernem and honestly, we couldn't be more excited.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome back to biz Inbox. I'm am Burnham
and I'm Sarah Davidson, and today we're tackling some workplace
dilemmas that will have you nodding along going yup. I
have definitely been there. We have someone who's been thrown
into running team meetings without knowing how to actually run them.
And we're also talking about resume anxiety. What recruiters actually
(00:37):
want to see and should you be mentioning that time
you're a school captain, like a decade ago.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And later we're tackling something that we have all overthought
at three am. What is the actual protocol for calling
in sick? Like when you're actually sick? Do you text
you called your email? Do you need to write a
handover document from your deathbed? Like? What are the actual expectations?
But first, m I've stumbled across this handy tool that
has just made LinkedIn even better. LinkedIn just launched an
(01:07):
AI search tool. I'm obsessed with AI at the moment.
Lets you describe your dream job in like normal human
language instead of wrestling with all those annoying dropdown filters
that never actually have what you actually want, so you
could type something in that was like, I want a
creative role where I won't cry at my desk every
day and it will find matching jobs for you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I love that. Do you think it will find me
a job? If I typed in I want a creative
role with a lot of eligible bachelor's that also work
at the company.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Do you know what could do? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Will it solve all our career and dating problems? I mean,
probably not, but I'll take any win that makes job
hunting slightly less soul destroying.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
And I'm pretty impressed with this one. I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, I'm excited to see this play out. Okay, let's
jump straight into it. This first question we had email
to us by Alex and it says I've been asked
to run more team meetings, but mine always feel awkward
and unproductive. People seem disengaged, conversations go off track, and
nothing gets decided. What makes a good meeting in twenty
twenty five? Are there any icebreakers or habits that actually work?
(02:12):
Or should I just stick to business standing on business standing?
Should I just stand on business and tell everyone what
to do?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Do you know I just think it's really going to
depend on the people in the meeting, because I think
some people have a really high tolerance for all business
getting straight to the point.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Some people need a warm up. It depends on.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Like the culture or sort of the vibe in your workplace.
Sometimes people need icebreakers before they can focus, and then
sometimes that will just distract them into absolute chaos.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
But my overall tip.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Providing a meeting is like, no matter what your balance
is between fun and work, always have an agenda and
stick to that agenda because you're gonna get it's human nature.
You're gonna get distracted, conversations will go off track.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And the main way to kind of.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Keep all of you focused, I think, is to have
the dot points of all the things you need to
have done by the end of it, and then everyone
gets a copy circulated. They know the expectations of what
you want to have done by the end, and then
before you finish the meeting, look at it again and
check have you actually finished making the decisions that you
needed to and if you haven't, you don't let anyone leave.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's like school children, and that's so true. It's exactly
like school. An agenda is such a good piece of advice,
because I also feel like sometimes when you're doing something
new for the first time at a job, you feel
like you have to do it all on your own.
And even though it is a team meeting and from
the sounds of it, it sounds like you're running the
(03:37):
team meetings and these are like ongoing meetings. Doesn't necessarily
mean that you have to be the talker throughout the
whole meeting, Like if there's an agenda, it doesn't mean
that you have to be the one that's like, Okay,
now we're doing this, now we're doing this. I would
actually be like, hey, assign people roles and be like
and then you talk about what you're working on, and
then you talk about what you're working on, so everyone
has a turn, and people come to a meeting prepared
(04:00):
rather than I feel like sometimes when you go to
these certain meetings where you don't actually have a role
to contribute, you kind of take the piss sometimes, like
you kind of use it to either just like sit
back and talk about your weekend or like do other
work while other people are talking. I feel like if
you force people to be present in your meeting is
by giving them a role to play, and if like
(04:20):
everyone has like a certain role to play in that
meeting where they know they have to talk and they
know they have to provide something, it will just automatically
become way more productive.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Oh I love that the allocation.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, people will hate it, but you make it a
productive meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
But the best part is when you do have an agenda,
and if you have allocated the roles out to people
so their name's sort of attached to it before you
come to the meeting, then the agenda is the bad guy.
You're not the bad guy. It's like fain, this inanimate
object the person that's keeping you all on track. And
you can even kind of say that because obviously you
haven't used well I'm guessing you haven't used them until
(04:58):
this point, so you can even use your excuse for
introducing an agenda all of a sudden, so you don't
look like the bad guy to be like, oh, guys,
I am so oh tangential, Like I'm the one who
always gets distracted.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So I know how easy going I am.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, And so you kind of make the agenda the
bad guy, and then suddenly you know, people are less disengaged,
but not because you're being you know, the teacher that's
sticking them off.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
It's because the agenda's faults. Like it's a good deflection.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I also like the idea. And now we're getting into
a bit of a lying territory here, so don't tell anyone.
But if you don't want to be like that person
who makes the agenda and has to lead the meetings
and everyone has to do a role. What makes me
really like perk up during a meeting is when my
manager says something like leadership has asked for this, so
(05:46):
I need to report back to them, and I'm like, oh,
leadership really cares, so I have to do a lot
of work here for this meeting. Will automatically make people
actually try really hard.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
You know what also kind of perks me up is
if there's ever not that it's like a formal quiz,
but if you start to like actually call people out
in the meeting and say what do you think? Then
it sets up the expectation that you better have been
listening to any section because you don't know what I'm
going to ask you. So you could kind of start
putting people on the spot and just be like, oh, yeah,
well look, I really value all of your opinions, So, m,
(06:18):
what do you think about what Peter just said? And
if you weren't listening to what Peter just said, like,
it kind of prevents the risk of disengagement because people
will be like, wow, I'm really expected to be tuning
in and then provide an eloquent opinion.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I actually have to listen.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It sucks for me, but great for everyone else at
the meeting who's like, oh crap, yeah, we should be
listening to your other point. I do think a lot
of meetings are already so rigid. I feel like icebreakers
get a bad rap for the name of being icebreak
because it doesn't necessarily have to be that. It can
literally just be like, what's one fun thing you did
on the weekend, or like I know, when I was
in the social media team it was a very small team.
(06:56):
We did like weekly team meetings and we'd start them
off with gratitudes, which I know can someoni the do
an eye roll, but just saying one thing you're grateful
for for that day or the day before just makes
everything feel so much nicer and you're just automatically in
a positive mood. To continue the meeting, I feel like
doing something like that is so low touched, like you
don't have to try too hard. It can be so
(07:17):
so easy, and she'll be like, oh, I had breakfast
this morning and it was really nice and I.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Loved it and I'm grateful. But I also think you
could play around with the format depending on your team
as well. Like sometimes I found one of my managers
had them sort of in the meeting rooms and they
were really sterile, and so everyone was really disengaged because
it was not a nice environment. Whereas another one of
our managers kind of took us out to a cafe
and we all did our morning coffee run together. But
(07:43):
because you're kind of like getting a coffee and then
they would shout the coffee. It's such a small gesture,
especially if you're in a small team, and you can
still chat as you walk. It's like a walk and
talk meeting where you're getting a little reward, but it's
also more relaxed and so it's less stuffy and it's.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Actually enjoyable, Like you'll look forward to doing that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, totally, I feel like play around with the environment.
There's no reason why you can't, especially if there's like
a cafe in your building. Just go downstairs, so that
everyone's in a different location. It's likely to improve motivation
if they feel more relaxed.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Oh that's so true. Well, so many answers for you.
So it's like, be very chill and then set the agenda.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Feel like chill and not chill at the same time.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Good luck, Okay. Our next question comes from Jordan, who's
having a bit of a resume crisis. Now we've all
been here, so Jordan says, I'm updating my resume and
completely confused about what recruiters actually want. Do I include
being a school captain from ten years ago, my old
(08:46):
retail job. I want to list soft skills like strong communicator,
but I can't quantify them. Everyone says resumes need metrics.
How do I prove I'm collaborative with numbers? What do
recruiters actually wan? From someone with a few years of experience,
this one was so interesting to me because I feel like, yes,
Reid is really really important because it's like your first
(09:08):
line of contact with the company that you want to
work for. But I genuinely think we put so much
pressure and effort into our resume when really we should
be doing that for the interview that comes after the resume.
I've been burnt so many times where in the past,
when I was looking for my very first job, which
was a retail job, I put everything into my resume,
(09:31):
like everything I did at school, literally my whole life
story in there, and then you came to the interview
and there was nothing to talk about because they already
knew everything. And then like things like strong communicator and stuff.
I feel like that's something that should come out in
the interview, not necessarily something that means anything on paper.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I think the other thing that we forget is that
you assume every single person who you submit your resume
to is going to read all the details and that
you're you know, it's a liveable playing field and you've
got their attention for the entire amount of pages that
you submit, which is not the case. Anyone who is
doing recruitment is facing a submission of a huge amount
of pieces of paper with lots of words, so many words.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
And everyone's like it should be one page. That does
not mean make your font eight size, No, it means
less words.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I think you have to be really realistic about the
fact that you have a very small attention span to
grab the recruiter. And so if the position that you're
applying for is a leadership position, then yes, school captaincy
is something that's probably going to show that you have
been interested in leadership, even if it was ten years ago,
it might show like a recurring theme. But if you're
(10:40):
going for a job where that kind of skill set
isn't relevant, I think it's all based on relevance to
the role that you're applying for. And sometimes we want
to put in the entire like you said, your whole
life story. You want to show them the entirety of
who you are as a person, But all they're looking
for is your suitability for the role you're applying for
and also why you're more.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Suitable than the next person.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So you've got a really small amount of space and
time to grab their attention. If there's too much information,
they tune out. If there's not enough information, you don't
showcase yourself. It is really really difficult to do that.
But I think the number one point when it comes
to like what to include and what not to include
is tying it back to the specific job. Like, my
(11:22):
resume looks completely different depending on what I'm presenting it for. Yeah,
whereas I think some people they choose one resume and
then they submit that to everything, and it's like, yeah,
you need to change it up depending on what you're
applying for and why.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And it sounds like that Jordan's going for a professional role.
So I would say it's a new age like lean
into LinkedIn, because everyone puts everything on LinkedIn, and every
person I know who works in recruitment or works on
hiring people or are looking to hire people, the first
thing they'll do is look up someone's name on LinkedIn
and find out like what they've been posting to see
(11:57):
their career history. So really push that and like put
all your details on your LinkedIn, like under your bio,
your pro file, every job you have listed there, list
all the skill sets you did there, because that will
allow you to have more room to be more conversational
in your resume, which I feel like so many people
to eat. Regumes are so so rigid. And that's exactly
(12:18):
what you're saying, Sarah, because it's a copy and paste
for every job they go for, and I feel like
you need to tailor it and be more personal, show
your personality in that. So then the job interview after
that comes so much easier and so much cleaner as well.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
And I think there has to be a really good
balance between things that really showcase, like you said, your
actual skill set and what makes you suitable.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
But in order to get the interview.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
You also have to show a little bit of something sparkly,
like a little bit of something that grabs their attention.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So that's also really hard to balance.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But what is that what makes you a good communicator
but a communicator that's great for this role? Why are
you more special than the next good communicator? Like that's
a really hard I mean, I don't know the answer,
but that's kind of what I think about when I'm
deciding what I'm going to include or not.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Oh that's so smart. Okay, good luck Jordan. We hope
you get the job. Okay. The last question is from
an anonymous person. They slid into our DMS with this
question and it says, I'm genuinely unwell, but have no
idea what the actual protocol is for calling in sick.
(13:22):
I love how instead of calling in sick, you just
submitted this question to us. Which is the right thing
to do? Do I text, call or email? Is it
better to let them know at three am when I
realize I'm too sick or wake up early that morning.
Do I need to send a list of my tasks
for the day so someone can cover them. How much
detail should I give just I'm unwell or explain what's wrong.
(13:43):
I'm lying here, overthinking everything and feeling guilty about letting
the team down. What's the proper way to handle a
sick day without looking unprofessional? I actually struggle with this
question myself.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
So did I. I still think about it now.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I'm like, I'm already overthinking my answer, and it's a
hypothetical for me. I'm so like, you know that mean
with all the equations, Like that's me thinking about my answer.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I'm like, I'm like feeling feverish myself. I might have
to call in sick. This is too much. I do
this all the time. I overthink everything. But then I
realized there has been certain times in my career where
I've genuinely had an emergency where I'd had to go home,
where I couldn't come into the office, And because it's
an emergency, you don't have time to explain, you don't
(14:28):
have time to think about what time you should message them,
and every single time I've done that, it's been like
no questions asked, like of course, take the time. And
then I started applying that to when I was actually sick,
like literally in bed, can't get up. I suffer from
really bad migraines. When a migraine comes on, I actually
can't physically see anything, let alone read and type out
(14:51):
a message. So I can only let people know I'm
sick after i've come too. It's one of those situations
where I feel so so guilty, like so bad about
not being able to effectively communicate my illness to my
team or to my manager. But then you realize that
everyone goes through it, like everyone's been sick, everyone's had
to call in sick. I do think we think too
(15:14):
much into it, But I also know I'm speaking from
a place of privilege where I work in a workplace
that doesn't question that, and that's not necessarily the case
for everyone else.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
M that.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
My first reaction to this question was what is the
norm in your workplace? Who is the person who you
need to tell? Is it your immediate boss, is it
your secretary? Is it someone more senior? Is it someone
who's a peer, like what is the normal practice? And
that is kind of I think that sets up what
the expectations of your team would be. So for example,
(15:49):
when I was back at the law firm, I probably
wouldn't tell my supervising partner he was too senior, Like
I wouldn't text him directly. I would probably tell my secretary,
who would then tell the team and she would like
take care of circulating that to whoever needed to know
based on what I was working on, tell her, these
are the people I'm working with at the moment, can
you please let them know? Whereas in other workplaces that
(16:10):
might be like why didn't you just tell me directly?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
And why don't you just look me a text?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So I think definitely suss out what your particular workplace's
expectations or level of formality is. And then I also think,
even though I'm really bad at this, once you have
decided or come to the realization that you are too
sick to go in, the more notice you can give people,
the better. And then I mean, whether that's a text
or call or email, the format is dependent on your workplace.
(16:36):
But I think timing wise, like three am or early
that morning doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's more like as soon as you know, the more chance.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That people have to work around that is probably going
to be better, Like they're not going to regret having
more time to work out what they do.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, you're so right. I think sometimes it can be
really really urgent, like especially like you said, if your
job impacts other people's jobs. Like whenever I'm sick, I know,
because I'm a podcast host, that my job will impact
my producer's job and my co host job because I'll
have to either find a fill in or find another day.
It impacts so many people and it goes down like
(17:13):
a line. So whenever I'm sick, I immediately text my boss
and whoever else it will impact. But I do that
knowing that it's fine to take a sick day. I
think what you're saying is you don't actually have to
ask to take a sick day. You're granted sickly if
you're allowed to take your sick leave. And I think
women do it more than men, that we just feel
(17:34):
so much guilt every time we have to call in sick,
or every time if we have a kid and they're
sick and we have to be home caring for a
parent and we have to be home. Like the guilt
that's around women when it comes to taking sick leave
is so so high. Everyone does it. Like everyone does it.
You don't have to be sorry for taking sickly. You
don't have to ask permission to take sickly. You can
(17:56):
literally just say I'm going to be sick today, I'll
be back tomorrow, I'll be back when I'm better, and
that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I don't think you need to tell them your entire
life story, detail of your medical diagnosis if you don't
want to.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean, I don't have to, and I'm shitting like crazy.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I mean, you know what I would say.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I have said that, I've said I've said guys, I
had something crazy last night and I've not gotten up
from the toilet since.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I think also that point about like do I wait
until I wake up early that morning? I used to
definitely think that if I do it the night before,
will they think I'm faking or like it's not bad enough?
Like how do I already know the day before that
I'm gonna How do I know how I'll feel in
the morning. But I think sometimes you know you're really
on Well, yeah, if you can let them know the
night before, like amazing, then they have more time if
(18:42):
they need your organized a replacement or reschedule, like yeah,
give them the courtesy of letting them know. But I
also sometimes would leave it to the next day because
I'm like, what if.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I get better. Yeah, it's a really hard one.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's hard when it's also working from home. I feel
like it's a bit easier in the office, Like, for example,
I took actually two days of sickly last week, and
it was two days where I think I had like
three recordings per day, so I messed up a lot
of people schedules. But there was no way I could
come in because I was like physically sick, like I
was coughing and sneezing. But people kind of knew because
(19:14):
I was a bit ill the day before when I
was in the office, like I guess I soft launched
my sickness, like I looked so bad, Like I actually
got a message from a colleague who was sitting next
to me, going, you don't seem like yourself. Today's everything okay,
And I'm like, I think I'm getting sick, Like I
feel so like I looked ill, like I physically looked ill.
It's easier when you're in the office because people are like, yeah, damn,
(19:34):
she was really bad yesterday. It's harder when you're working
from home and no one sees you anyway, and they're like, oh,
she's sick. What she's been doing. She's been at home.
No one thinks of it that way. But yes, I
would tell people as soon as I feel a bit of.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
An itch in my throat.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Soft launch, great launch your sickness.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, that is another biz episode wrapped.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Keep sending those questions through to us via the link
in our show notes. Anonymous emissions are totally welcome, as
you will.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Have heard, many have been submitted before. The spicy the better.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
If you are worried about your boss somehow finding out,
then yeah, I mean you guys, you've seen it before.
You can trust and we will protect your name and
we'll be back next week with more workplace wisdom.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
And before we go, do not forget to follow us
on Instagram and TikTok. We are biz by Mama Mia
and sign up to our very free newsletter. It is
very very good. It is written by Katie Powers. He's
our biz writer. Here Amma Miya. She is amazing. This
episode of Beers was produced by Sophie Campbell with audio
production by Leah Porges. Bye Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the
(20:49):
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on.
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome back to biz Inbox. I'm am Burnham
and I'm Sarah Davidson, and today we're tackling some workplace
dilemmas that will have you nodding along going yup. I
have definitely been there. We have someone who's been thrown
into running team meetings without knowing how to actually run them.
And we're also talking about resume anxiety. What recruiters actually
(00:37):
want to see and should you be mentioning that time
you're a school captain, like a decade ago.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And later we're tackling something that we have all overthought
at three am. What is the actual protocol for calling
in sick? Like when you're actually sick? Do you text
you called your email? Do you need to write a
handover document from your deathbed? Like? What are the actual expectations?
But first, m I've stumbled across this handy tool that
has just made LinkedIn even better. LinkedIn just launched an
(01:07):
AI search tool. I'm obsessed with AI at the moment.
Lets you describe your dream job in like normal human
language instead of wrestling with all those annoying dropdown filters
that never actually have what you actually want, so you
could type something in that was like, I want a
creative role where I won't cry at my desk every
day and it will find matching jobs for you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I love that. Do you think it will find me
a job? If I typed in I want a creative
role with a lot of eligible bachelor's that also work
at the company.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Do you know what could do? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Will it solve all our career and dating problems? I mean,
probably not, but I'll take any win that makes job
hunting slightly less soul destroying.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
And I'm pretty impressed with this one. I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, I'm excited to see this play out. Okay, let's
jump straight into it. This first question we had email
to us by Alex and it says I've been asked
to run more team meetings, but mine always feel awkward
and unproductive. People seem disengaged, conversations go off track, and
nothing gets decided. What makes a good meeting in twenty
twenty five? Are there any icebreakers or habits that actually work?
(02:12):
Or should I just stick to business standing on business standing?
Should I just stand on business and tell everyone what
to do?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Do you know I just think it's really going to
depend on the people in the meeting, because I think
some people have a really high tolerance for all business
getting straight to the point.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Some people need a warm up. It depends on.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Like the culture or sort of the vibe in your workplace.
Sometimes people need icebreakers before they can focus, and then
sometimes that will just distract them into absolute chaos.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
But my overall tip.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Providing a meeting is like, no matter what your balance
is between fun and work, always have an agenda and
stick to that agenda because you're gonna get it's human nature.
You're gonna get distracted, conversations will go off track.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
And the main way to kind of.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Keep all of you focused, I think, is to have
the dot points of all the things you need to
have done by the end of it, and then everyone
gets a copy circulated. They know the expectations of what
you want to have done by the end, and then
before you finish the meeting, look at it again and
check have you actually finished making the decisions that you
needed to and if you haven't, you don't let anyone leave.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's like school children, and that's so true. It's exactly
like school. An agenda is such a good piece of advice,
because I also feel like sometimes when you're doing something
new for the first time at a job, you feel
like you have to do it all on your own.
And even though it is a team meeting and from
the sounds of it, it sounds like you're running the
(03:37):
team meetings and these are like ongoing meetings. Doesn't necessarily
mean that you have to be the talker throughout the
whole meeting, Like if there's an agenda, it doesn't mean
that you have to be the one that's like, Okay,
now we're doing this, now we're doing this. I would
actually be like, hey, assign people roles and be like
and then you talk about what you're working on, and
then you talk about what you're working on, so everyone
has a turn, and people come to a meeting prepared
(04:00):
rather than I feel like sometimes when you go to
these certain meetings where you don't actually have a role
to contribute, you kind of take the piss sometimes, like
you kind of use it to either just like sit
back and talk about your weekend or like do other
work while other people are talking. I feel like if
you force people to be present in your meeting is
by giving them a role to play, and if like
(04:20):
everyone has like a certain role to play in that
meeting where they know they have to talk and they
know they have to provide something, it will just automatically
become way more productive.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Oh I love that the allocation.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, people will hate it, but you make it a
productive meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
But the best part is when you do have an agenda,
and if you have allocated the roles out to people
so their name's sort of attached to it before you
come to the meeting, then the agenda is the bad guy.
You're not the bad guy. It's like fain, this inanimate
object the person that's keeping you all on track. And
you can even kind of say that because obviously you
haven't used well I'm guessing you haven't used them until
(04:58):
this point, so you can even use your excuse for
introducing an agenda all of a sudden, so you don't
look like the bad guy to be like, oh, guys,
I am so oh tangential, Like I'm the one who
always gets distracted.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So I know how easy going I am.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, And so you kind of make the agenda the
bad guy, and then suddenly you know, people are less disengaged,
but not because you're being you know, the teacher that's
sticking them off.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
It's because the agenda's faults. Like it's a good deflection.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I also like the idea. And now we're getting into
a bit of a lying territory here, so don't tell anyone.
But if you don't want to be like that person
who makes the agenda and has to lead the meetings
and everyone has to do a role. What makes me
really like perk up during a meeting is when my
manager says something like leadership has asked for this, so
(05:46):
I need to report back to them, and I'm like, oh,
leadership really cares, so I have to do a lot
of work here for this meeting. Will automatically make people
actually try really hard.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
You know what also kind of perks me up is
if there's ever not that it's like a formal quiz,
but if you start to like actually call people out
in the meeting and say what do you think? Then
it sets up the expectation that you better have been
listening to any section because you don't know what I'm
going to ask you. So you could kind of start
putting people on the spot and just be like, oh, yeah,
well look, I really value all of your opinions, So, m,
(06:18):
what do you think about what Peter just said? And
if you weren't listening to what Peter just said, like,
it kind of prevents the risk of disengagement because people
will be like, wow, I'm really expected to be tuning
in and then provide an eloquent opinion.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I actually have to listen.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It sucks for me, but great for everyone else at
the meeting who's like, oh crap, yeah, we should be
listening to your other point. I do think a lot
of meetings are already so rigid. I feel like icebreakers
get a bad rap for the name of being icebreak
because it doesn't necessarily have to be that. It can
literally just be like, what's one fun thing you did
on the weekend, or like I know, when I was
in the social media team it was a very small team.
(06:56):
We did like weekly team meetings and we'd start them
off with gratitudes, which I know can someoni the do
an eye roll, but just saying one thing you're grateful
for for that day or the day before just makes
everything feel so much nicer and you're just automatically in
a positive mood. To continue the meeting, I feel like
doing something like that is so low touched, like you
don't have to try too hard. It can be so
(07:17):
so easy, and she'll be like, oh, I had breakfast
this morning and it was really nice and I.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Loved it and I'm grateful. But I also think you
could play around with the format depending on your team
as well. Like sometimes I found one of my managers
had them sort of in the meeting rooms and they
were really sterile, and so everyone was really disengaged because
it was not a nice environment. Whereas another one of
our managers kind of took us out to a cafe
and we all did our morning coffee run together. But
(07:43):
because you're kind of like getting a coffee and then
they would shout the coffee. It's such a small gesture,
especially if you're in a small team, and you can
still chat as you walk. It's like a walk and
talk meeting where you're getting a little reward, but it's
also more relaxed and so it's less stuffy and it's.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Actually enjoyable, Like you'll look forward to doing that.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, totally, I feel like play around with the environment.
There's no reason why you can't, especially if there's like
a cafe in your building. Just go downstairs, so that
everyone's in a different location. It's likely to improve motivation
if they feel more relaxed.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Oh that's so true. Well, so many answers for you.
So it's like, be very chill and then set the agenda.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Feel like chill and not chill at the same time.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Good luck, Okay. Our next question comes from Jordan, who's
having a bit of a resume crisis. Now we've all
been here, so Jordan says, I'm updating my resume and
completely confused about what recruiters actually want. Do I include
being a school captain from ten years ago, my old
(08:46):
retail job. I want to list soft skills like strong communicator,
but I can't quantify them. Everyone says resumes need metrics.
How do I prove I'm collaborative with numbers? What do
recruiters actually wan? From someone with a few years of experience,
this one was so interesting to me because I feel like, yes,
Reid is really really important because it's like your first
(09:08):
line of contact with the company that you want to
work for. But I genuinely think we put so much
pressure and effort into our resume when really we should
be doing that for the interview that comes after the resume.
I've been burnt so many times where in the past,
when I was looking for my very first job, which
was a retail job, I put everything into my resume,
(09:31):
like everything I did at school, literally my whole life
story in there, and then you came to the interview
and there was nothing to talk about because they already
knew everything. And then like things like strong communicator and stuff.
I feel like that's something that should come out in
the interview, not necessarily something that means anything on paper.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I think the other thing that we forget is that
you assume every single person who you submit your resume
to is going to read all the details and that
you're you know, it's a liveable playing field and you've
got their attention for the entire amount of pages that
you submit, which is not the case. Anyone who is
doing recruitment is facing a submission of a huge amount
of pieces of paper with lots of words, so many words.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
And everyone's like it should be one page. That does
not mean make your font eight size, No, it means
less words.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I think you have to be really realistic about the
fact that you have a very small attention span to
grab the recruiter. And so if the position that you're
applying for is a leadership position, then yes, school captaincy
is something that's probably going to show that you have
been interested in leadership, even if it was ten years ago,
it might show like a recurring theme. But if you're
(10:40):
going for a job where that kind of skill set
isn't relevant, I think it's all based on relevance to
the role that you're applying for. And sometimes we want
to put in the entire like you said, your whole
life story. You want to show them the entirety of
who you are as a person, But all they're looking
for is your suitability for the role you're applying for
and also why you're more.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Suitable than the next person.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So you've got a really small amount of space and
time to grab their attention. If there's too much information,
they tune out. If there's not enough information, you don't
showcase yourself. It is really really difficult to do that.
But I think the number one point when it comes
to like what to include and what not to include
is tying it back to the specific job. Like, my
(11:22):
resume looks completely different depending on what I'm presenting it for. Yeah,
whereas I think some people they choose one resume and
then they submit that to everything, and it's like, yeah,
you need to change it up depending on what you're
applying for and why.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And it sounds like that Jordan's going for a professional role.
So I would say it's a new age like lean
into LinkedIn, because everyone puts everything on LinkedIn, and every
person I know who works in recruitment or works on
hiring people or are looking to hire people, the first
thing they'll do is look up someone's name on LinkedIn
and find out like what they've been posting to see
(11:57):
their career history. So really push that and like put
all your details on your LinkedIn, like under your bio,
your pro file, every job you have listed there, list
all the skill sets you did there, because that will
allow you to have more room to be more conversational
in your resume, which I feel like so many people
to eat. Regumes are so so rigid. And that's exactly
(12:18):
what you're saying, Sarah, because it's a copy and paste
for every job they go for, and I feel like
you need to tailor it and be more personal, show
your personality in that. So then the job interview after
that comes so much easier and so much cleaner as well.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
And I think there has to be a really good
balance between things that really showcase, like you said, your
actual skill set and what makes you suitable.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
But in order to get the interview.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
You also have to show a little bit of something sparkly,
like a little bit of something that grabs their attention.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
So that's also really hard to balance.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
But what is that what makes you a good communicator
but a communicator that's great for this role? Why are
you more special than the next good communicator? Like that's
a really hard I mean, I don't know the answer,
but that's kind of what I think about when I'm
deciding what I'm going to include or not.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Oh that's so smart. Okay, good luck Jordan. We hope
you get the job. Okay. The last question is from
an anonymous person. They slid into our DMS with this
question and it says, I'm genuinely unwell, but have no
idea what the actual protocol is for calling in sick.
(13:22):
I love how instead of calling in sick, you just
submitted this question to us. Which is the right thing
to do? Do I text, call or email? Is it
better to let them know at three am when I
realize I'm too sick or wake up early that morning.
Do I need to send a list of my tasks
for the day so someone can cover them. How much
detail should I give just I'm unwell or explain what's wrong.
(13:43):
I'm lying here, overthinking everything and feeling guilty about letting
the team down. What's the proper way to handle a
sick day without looking unprofessional? I actually struggle with this
question myself.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
So did I. I still think about it now.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I'm like, I'm already overthinking my answer, and it's a
hypothetical for me. I'm so like, you know that mean
with all the equations, Like that's me thinking about my answer.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I'm like, I'm like feeling feverish myself. I might have
to call in sick. This is too much. I do
this all the time. I overthink everything. But then I
realized there has been certain times in my career where
I've genuinely had an emergency where I'd had to go home,
where I couldn't come into the office, And because it's
an emergency, you don't have time to explain, you don't
(14:28):
have time to think about what time you should message them,
and every single time I've done that, it's been like
no questions asked, like of course, take the time. And
then I started applying that to when I was actually sick,
like literally in bed, can't get up. I suffer from
really bad migraines. When a migraine comes on, I actually
can't physically see anything, let alone read and type out
(14:51):
a message. So I can only let people know I'm
sick after i've come too. It's one of those situations
where I feel so so guilty, like so bad about
not being able to effectively communicate my illness to my
team or to my manager. But then you realize that
everyone goes through it, like everyone's been sick, everyone's had
to call in sick. I do think we think too
(15:14):
much into it, But I also know I'm speaking from
a place of privilege where I work in a workplace
that doesn't question that, and that's not necessarily the case
for everyone else.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
M that.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
My first reaction to this question was what is the
norm in your workplace? Who is the person who you
need to tell? Is it your immediate boss, is it
your secretary? Is it someone more senior? Is it someone
who's a peer, like what is the normal practice? And
that is kind of I think that sets up what
the expectations of your team would be. So for example,
(15:49):
when I was back at the law firm, I probably
wouldn't tell my supervising partner he was too senior, Like
I wouldn't text him directly. I would probably tell my secretary,
who would then tell the team and she would like
take care of circulating that to whoever needed to know
based on what I was working on, tell her, these
are the people I'm working with at the moment, can
you please let them know? Whereas in other workplaces that
(16:10):
might be like why didn't you just tell me directly?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
And why don't you just look me a text?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So I think definitely suss out what your particular workplace's
expectations or level of formality is. And then I also think,
even though I'm really bad at this, once you have
decided or come to the realization that you are too
sick to go in, the more notice you can give people,
the better. And then I mean, whether that's a text
or call or email, the format is dependent on your workplace.
(16:36):
But I think timing wise, like three am or early
that morning doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's more like as soon as you know, the more chance.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That people have to work around that is probably going
to be better, Like they're not going to regret having
more time to work out what they do.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, you're so right. I think sometimes it can be
really really urgent, like especially like you said, if your
job impacts other people's jobs. Like whenever I'm sick, I know,
because I'm a podcast host, that my job will impact
my producer's job and my co host job because I'll
have to either find a fill in or find another day.
It impacts so many people and it goes down like
(17:13):
a line. So whenever I'm sick, I immediately text my boss
and whoever else it will impact. But I do that
knowing that it's fine to take a sick day. I
think what you're saying is you don't actually have to
ask to take a sick day. You're granted sickly if
you're allowed to take your sick leave. And I think
women do it more than men, that we just feel
(17:34):
so much guilt every time we have to call in sick,
or every time if we have a kid and they're
sick and we have to be home caring for a
parent and we have to be home. Like the guilt
that's around women when it comes to taking sick leave
is so so high. Everyone does it. Like everyone does it.
You don't have to be sorry for taking sickly. You
don't have to ask permission to take sickly. You can
(17:56):
literally just say I'm going to be sick today, I'll
be back tomorrow, I'll be back when I'm better, and
that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I don't think you need to tell them your entire
life story, detail of your medical diagnosis if you don't
want to.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean, I don't have to, and I'm shitting like crazy.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I mean, you know what I would say.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I have said that, I've said I've said guys, I
had something crazy last night and I've not gotten up
from the toilet since.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I think also that point about like do I wait
until I wake up early that morning? I used to
definitely think that if I do it the night before,
will they think I'm faking or like it's not bad enough?
Like how do I already know the day before that
I'm gonna How do I know how I'll feel in
the morning. But I think sometimes you know you're really
on Well, yeah, if you can let them know the
night before, like amazing, then they have more time if
(18:42):
they need your organized a replacement or reschedule, like yeah,
give them the courtesy of letting them know. But I
also sometimes would leave it to the next day because
I'm like, what if.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I get better. Yeah, it's a really hard one.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's hard when it's also working from home. I feel
like it's a bit easier in the office, Like, for example,
I took actually two days of sickly last week, and
it was two days where I think I had like
three recordings per day, so I messed up a lot
of people schedules. But there was no way I could
come in because I was like physically sick, like I
was coughing and sneezing. But people kind of knew because
(19:14):
I was a bit ill the day before when I
was in the office, like I guess I soft launched
my sickness, like I looked so bad, Like I actually
got a message from a colleague who was sitting next
to me, going, you don't seem like yourself. Today's everything okay,
And I'm like, I think I'm getting sick, Like I
feel so like I looked ill, like I physically looked ill.
It's easier when you're in the office because people are like, yeah, damn,
(19:34):
she was really bad yesterday. It's harder when you're working
from home and no one sees you anyway, and they're like, oh,
she's sick. What she's been doing. She's been at home.
No one thinks of it that way. But yes, I
would tell people as soon as I feel a bit of.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
An itch in my throat.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Soft launch, great launch your sickness.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, that is another biz episode wrapped.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Keep sending those questions through to us via the link
in our show notes. Anonymous emissions are totally welcome, as
you will.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Have heard, many have been submitted before. The spicy the better.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
If you are worried about your boss somehow finding out,
then yeah, I mean you guys, you've seen it before.
You can trust and we will protect your name and
we'll be back next week with more workplace wisdom.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
And before we go, do not forget to follow us
on Instagram and TikTok. We are biz by Mama Mia
and sign up to our very free newsletter. It is
very very good. It is written by Katie Powers. He's
our biz writer. Here Amma Miya. She is amazing. This
episode of Beers was produced by Sophie Campbell with audio
production by Leah Porges. Bye Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the
(20:49):
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on.
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