May 14, 2025 • 18 mins
In this episode we solve the puzzle of networking with colleagues in different time zones (hello, 3am meetings!). Then we dive into the delicate dance of returning to your old workplace as the new boss - is it a career power move or a recipe for disaster? Plus, we share strategic tactics for dealing with that manager who's constantly 'checking in' on your progress.
Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your go-to workplace advice podcast where Em Vernem and Michelle Battersby answer all those awkward career questions keeping you up at night. Consider this your chance to get candid career advice from experts who understand the modern workplace.
If you want your work life issue solved, send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au.
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HOSTS: Michelle Battersby and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to biz in Box. I'm m Vernon
and I'm Michelle Battersby. And every week on bus in Box,
we answer your burning career questions in the simplest way
possible because we're busy and so are you.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And how are you? How's your week?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh my god, I feel like I haven't talked to
you in like five years. It has been the busiest
week here at Mumma Mia. We are in the middle
of moving offices. So if you're watching the video of
this episode, you will see him in a very different environment.
It's because I'm not in a studio, I'm not at home.
I'm in a meeting room. So I've stolen a meeting
room off our entire company for this whole episode because
(00:56):
it is the last podcast we're recording from this office
before we move. It is hectic.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
What's a office move A Mumma Mia look like? Like,
are you all getting your hands dirty? Is there a
team that is doing this move? What's required of you?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We have a magical team. All we had to do
was clear out our desks and that was our only instruction.
And we have this magical team who's just been moving
everything for us. This is the second mom and mea
move I've experienced, but the first one happened during COVID,
so we literally went into work from home, lockdown, and
then came back into a brand new office.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh my god. I mean I feel like to have
gone through two office moves. I feel like you're part
of the furniture there.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I am a piece of furniture, probably one that might
get left behind in this MOTI.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
No, not at all. Okay, So this week we're talking
about something I've needed to become very good at, which
is effectively communicating across time zones. Plus we'll get into
getting respect from the big bad boss and going back
to an ex workplace, which I think you might have
(02:03):
something to say about.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I have a lot to say about that, so let's
jump right into it. We are growing our little community
over on LinkedIn, so if you don't follow us on LinkedIn,
please do. We'll put a link in our show notes,
which is exactly where this question came from from Nadia,
and she said, Hi, team, I'm loving listening to the podcast.
(02:29):
I have a follow up question from a recent episode
on how to build your network. I find This particularly
challenging with my current workplace as I'm based in Australia
and most team members are based in North America or Europe.
This means we communicate solely via Zoom, We don't have
a lot of overlapping time and conversations are booked in advance.
(02:50):
Any advice on how I can build my network within
my organization internally with time difference being an issue. So
Mish your based in the US, where based in Australia,
how are you able to do?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
This question took me back to when I worked at
Bumble actually because it was a similar situation to Nadia,
where I was located in Australia, always had a relatively
small team and everyone else was in the US or UK,
And so I started to reflect on how I kind
of built my own network there and gained exposure in
(03:26):
the organization. And I have some ideas for her. So
I think it's a pretty standard one, but setting up
one on ones with key people that you want to
get to know, build rapport with, or they're critical to
you actually getting your job done. And these don't need
to be long meetings. They could literally just be fifteen
(03:46):
minute catch ups fifteen minutes where you shoot the shit.
Maybe sometimes there's an agenda, maybe sometimes there's not, And
I think you can put them in people's calendars and
set the expectation like this can be flexible and literally say,
you know, we don't get much overlap. Wanted to put
in this, you know, once a fortnight or once a
mole just so we can keep up with what's going
(04:07):
on in each other's lives or like help each other
out in different ways in the business. So that's one.
This is one that I've used more at my own
company now because we basically have always been remote and
had people across America. And it's when you're sharing your
work with other people, like you're presenting a project, maybe
you want someone's help with something, maybe you're training someone
(04:30):
on something. Using LOOM, I think is a really good
way to get a bit more personable and allow your
personality to shine through. Do you know what loom is?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh? What is loom? I've heard of it, but I'm
not entirely sure.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's really really amazing. You can set up folders, shared
folders with your team. But basically, like if I wanted
to show you a part of the app that we're
building a new feature on I could just go into
loom press record, my little face will come up down
the bottom of the screen whilst I'm also screen sharing,
and I can like use my cursor and everything to
(05:04):
show you the designs whilst I'm talking you through it,
and then it just gets sent to the person in
a video. And it's just a nice way to work
kind of collaboratively from different corners of the globe. It's
the same vein as like sending voice notes, right, you know,
like there's a reason why Hinge built a voice notes
(05:25):
feature and it went viral, Like it's a very good
way to build intimacy. So I would also consider like
sending voice notes to people on Slack, even if they're
going to be responding in the morning. Like we've all
got friends around the world that we probably wake up
to voice notes from, you know, like it's a good
way to kind of keep things personal and intimate and
(05:47):
get to know people. Another one, so mentions like in
lots of our episodes, but it's calling people out for
their work and sending follow ups. This was one I
did a lot of it bumble, like I was kind
of constantly sharing the Australian teams wins in big Slack
(06:08):
channels because I knew I needed to increase all of
our visibility, so sending little Slack updates like just wanted
to shout out so and so she's been working on this.
It achieved this, Like here's an example of some of
the work, Like here's an example of some of the
press and just not being afraid to speak in bigger
channels and to share the wins. I'm assuming this company
(06:31):
is using slack, like especially if they've got people around
the world, but even just participating in interest based channels,
like I don't know if you have interest based channels
at Mama Mea, but like when I was at Bumble,
we would have social posts, brand news, random memes, and
just channels that didn't really mean much, but they allowed
(06:53):
people to show different sides of their personalities and like
you'd see an engineer say something that you just would
not expect that person to like be across or have
that kind of humor. So yeah, those are all little
things that I think can really really help in terms
of networking internally when you're not in the same room.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It's also really good that when you actually do get
the opportunity to travel to. Like if your HQ is
in a different country, you already know everyone, and you
already know them on like a kind of personal level
as well, so it doesn't feel like you're the new
person every time you do those trips.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
One hundred percent. And I honestly think like participating in
random slack channels, Like I'm thinking about the first time
I was ever flown to Austin and I knew no one,
and I'm meeting all these people from Bumble for the
first time, thinking they're gonna hate me, or think like,
who's this weird chick that we've had un over in
Australia doing this, and it's like, I don't know. I
used to always get amongst those weird slack channels and
(07:50):
then I'd see someone write something that I thought was
funny or realized we'd love the same show, and then
I would just start a side conversation with that person
and then kind of like constantly check in about that
sort of thing just to maintain a bit of a friendship.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Nice. Oh my god, there's are such good tip. So
we have to put that in our newsletter this week
because I think this is so helpful.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, And helpful for people just working remote generally, I think.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Okay, so our next question hits very close to home
for me personally. Laura said that she has started in
a small marketing firm eight years ago and has since
left and got more experience. She's now been invited back
to the original firm as a manager. She says, there
are lots of the same employees and she's going from
(08:32):
a junior role to being one of the bosses. So
she's asked us on email how to navigate that. So
I have done kind of the same thing. I started
my career here at Mama Mia. I worked here I
think for it was around five years, and then I
left for a little bit to gain experience at a
different media company, and then I was asked to come
(08:56):
back in a different, more senior role. I think the
only difference is that when I did come back, there
were quite a few new people, and a lot of
my previous colleagues and my close friends who I made
at Mama Mia had left during that time. It is
like a bit awkward coming back, I would say, especially
(09:17):
that first initial week, because you might have a new
leadership team, you might have new colleagues, new juniors, Firstly,
everyone wants to know the gossip, Like everyone wants to
know why did you choose to come back, Like were
you embarrassed to be asked back or something like that,
And it's one of those things where I'm just very truthful.
In those instances, I was just like, ah, it was
(09:40):
more money and kind of what I wanted to do,
so I just came back. I just followed it. But
I think in those situations to navigate it is just
kind of just treating it as a new job, because
you are coming back in a new role, and yes,
you have all this experience in the company, but also
companies changed so so fast, and that was my experience
at Mamma Mia, Like we had new processes, we were
(10:02):
more efficient. I love the people I was working with
when I came back, and I just treated it as
a completely new job and did the same things I
did when I initially started at the company, like joined
all like the culture clubs and said yes to everything
outside of work, and tried to get along with my
new employees and tried to help them get to know
me as a new person. And I think that was
(10:23):
the most efficient way I could have done it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Oh, I think that story is just bang on, and
because it kind of aligns with the advice that I
would give, like staying curious.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I love it when that happens.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
No, honestly, I think like the way you navigated it
is perfect. And I also think the pros of returning
to an organization if you loved it, like outweigh the
maybe potential negatives, Like you've got the historical information of
the company, Like it's probably a pretty fast round up process.
(10:56):
There probably are some things that are similar that you're
familiar with. Maybe there are some people there that you're
familiar with. I think kind of the only real risk,
I well, it's not even a risk, it's just something
that you might have to navigate, which would be if
anyone still perceived you as like that junior employee. But
I kind of think that's like a them type thing,
(11:19):
you know, like it would be a bit of a
weird one, but like maybe it could happen. I wouldn't
worry about it. I'd just kind of see if it
comes up. But I liked what you said around like
so many things had changed and like the processes had changed,
because I think one of the other potential risks would
be if nothing had changed and then you were like
coming back to this company that you know, for Laura
(11:40):
is like eight years back in the past and like
hasn't innovated and things like that. I'm sure those are
things that she unpacked during the interview process. Yeah, and yeah,
I kind of think it's a flex to go back
to a past company because it shows you're fucking good
and they want you.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Back, and like it shows how you're wanted. Yeah, and
you like it and you didn't like really, yeah, you
didn't fuck up your exit interview, which I think a
lot of people they air a lot of dirty laundry
in that interview because it feels like a therapy session essentially.
But I think we Mish talked about this on a
previous episode that if you actually, as a whole really
appreciate this company and you might want to go back
to it, always keep that in the back of your
(12:17):
head when you do any exit interview, because it happens. Okay,
So this question came in about managers and it's a
juicy anonymous question. So if you have an anonymous question,
you can always email us at podcasts at mmamea dot
com dot au. And this person said my boss is
(12:39):
such a micromanager. They're constantly quote checking in to see
if I've done tasks, They nitpick all my work, they
make me see them on most of my emails. Is
it a them problem or do they just hate me?
So I haven't had experience with a micromanager before, but
I have had a micro colleague. If that's a thing
(13:01):
where they constantly just wanted to know every single thing
I was doing. But I think because I will a colleague,
I didn't have to entertain that, so I just kind
of ignore them the whole way.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
But what I've never heard that term before, a micro colleague.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Should we make it a thing? Surely you have like
a nosy colleague. I had this one colleague that was
just constantly looking at my calendar, like she said it
as her default in her calendar to make sure that
she saw every single meeting of mine. I'm like, I
don't understand how this is going to help you.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
That's really fascinating. Maybe she just really idolized you and
was like I need to do what Emmy is doing. Like,
however she prioritizes her time, is how I should prioritize mine.
Maybe it was that I would maybe be flattered.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Okay, I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'll take that anyway. Firstly, it does a fucking suck
having a micromanager, Like it extinguishes your motivation and it
can make work a very unpleasant place. I feel for
this person, but I think when you have a micro manager,
you will say, need to step back and like look
(14:06):
at the big picture. You know, like there's clearly some
kind of trust breakdown that has occurred here, and have
I maybe contributed to that as well? So you know,
this person ended with is it a them problem? Or
do they just hate me? Maybe you know there's something
that's happened where like the trust has been broken, like
are you delivering on your work? Have there been performance conversations?
(14:28):
Like It's a bit of a two way street here.
So I would encourage this person to, you know, open
their mind a little bit to make this stop, because
it is a very debilitating situation to be in. So
I think the first thing I'd recommend is you need
to try and get a micromanager off your back to
assess like if it is a them problem, And a
(14:51):
way you can do that is to over communicate. So
this is a good way to try and build trust
and to stop them breathing down your neck. So you
could say things like, here's what I'm prioritizing this week
and send a list of exactly what you're doing so
they've got it. They haven't asked for it from you,
You've got ahead of it, and you're letting them know
(15:11):
exactly what you're working on. You could also say things
like I'll check back in on Wednesday unless I hit
a blocker before them, So like let them know when
you're gonna catch them up on what you're doing. And
if you do experience things along the way that are
going to slow you down or you're not actually going
to be able to give them the sort of update
you want to give them on Wednesday, then give them
(15:32):
an update ahead of that, like, Hey, I'm actually struggling
with this task more than I thought. Is this something
you've experienced before? Would love to get your advice on it,
and just really start to like you bring them in
on your work instead of them breathing down your neck.
That is going to help you like reclaim a bit
of your power.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Oh that's so smart.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It can maybe feel a bit annoying to do, but
like it is going to help you get a bit
of clarity around what's going on. You can also set
some boundaries a little bit, like would you prefer I
check in with you before doing X? Or can I
just show you the final version? She said that they
would nitpicky on all of her tasks, so like how
(16:13):
much do they actually want to be involved? And like
start to get a bit of clarity, like do they
really want to be c seed on every single email?
Just over communicating in whatever way you can will get
them off your back. You then need to actually be
delivering with your results. So then performing is going to
help you, know, build the trust. I think if you
(16:35):
are a strong performer and you're over communicating, like maybe
these are two things that you're already doing, then I
think you have a bit of a different problem and
I would be having a conversation with your manager. And
the way you can bring this up is that you
just want to talk about your work styles, Like, hey,
I've noticed we're having to do a lot of back
(16:56):
and forth on the details for you know, certain tasks.
I'd love to get some clarity on where I can
run freely or where you'd like to be looped in,
Like let me know when suits to chat and then
just see what comes up, because presenting it like work
styles also just takes the personal out of it and
keeps it professional. But I would definitely make sure that
(17:17):
you're doing all of this in writing because if all
of these steps fail, then I would say you probably
do have a toxic manager on your hands, and you
might need some proof and you might need some support.
So it's good to document all of this, like do
the over communicating in writing. After you have a one
(17:37):
on one with your manager, like you take control and
be like, hey, thank you so much for your time.
We discussed AB and C. Next steps from here are X,
Y and Z, and just kind of keep it all
documented in case, yeah, you need to escalate.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Things fingers crossed. You don't need that last step, but
if you do, I would also say, document how much
time is spent doing the back and forth versus actually
working on your project, because when you see those time
codes in writing, it may make the biggest difference.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, that's a great point. And this is exhausting stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It is. Oh, that's so good. I wish I had
this for my micro colleague. Well, thank you so much
for helping us clear the biz inbox. This week. If
you have a word question, please send it our way.
You will find a link on where to submit your
questions in our show notes. If you can tell us
your name, or you can remain completely anonymous, it's up
to you.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And if you miss any of our episodes, just scroll
back in your feed and we'll be back in the
busy Inbox next week.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Bye, Zia Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to Amma mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to biz in Box. I'm m Vernon
and I'm Michelle Battersby. And every week on bus in Box,
we answer your burning career questions in the simplest way
possible because we're busy and so are you.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
And how are you? How's your week?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh my god, I feel like I haven't talked to
you in like five years. It has been the busiest
week here at Mumma Mia. We are in the middle
of moving offices. So if you're watching the video of
this episode, you will see him in a very different environment.
It's because I'm not in a studio, I'm not at home.
I'm in a meeting room. So I've stolen a meeting
room off our entire company for this whole episode because
(00:56):
it is the last podcast we're recording from this office
before we move. It is hectic.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
What's a office move A Mumma Mia look like? Like,
are you all getting your hands dirty? Is there a
team that is doing this move? What's required of you?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We have a magical team. All we had to do
was clear out our desks and that was our only instruction.
And we have this magical team who's just been moving
everything for us. This is the second mom and mea
move I've experienced, but the first one happened during COVID,
so we literally went into work from home, lockdown, and
then came back into a brand new office.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh my god. I mean I feel like to have
gone through two office moves. I feel like you're part
of the furniture there.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I am a piece of furniture, probably one that might
get left behind in this MOTI.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
No, not at all. Okay, So this week we're talking
about something I've needed to become very good at, which
is effectively communicating across time zones. Plus we'll get into
getting respect from the big bad boss and going back
to an ex workplace, which I think you might have
(02:03):
something to say about.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I have a lot to say about that, so let's
jump right into it. We are growing our little community
over on LinkedIn, so if you don't follow us on LinkedIn,
please do. We'll put a link in our show notes,
which is exactly where this question came from from Nadia,
and she said, Hi, team, I'm loving listening to the podcast.
(02:29):
I have a follow up question from a recent episode
on how to build your network. I find This particularly
challenging with my current workplace as I'm based in Australia
and most team members are based in North America or Europe.
This means we communicate solely via Zoom, We don't have
a lot of overlapping time and conversations are booked in advance.
(02:50):
Any advice on how I can build my network within
my organization internally with time difference being an issue. So
Mish your based in the US, where based in Australia,
how are you able to do?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
This question took me back to when I worked at
Bumble actually because it was a similar situation to Nadia,
where I was located in Australia, always had a relatively
small team and everyone else was in the US or UK,
And so I started to reflect on how I kind
of built my own network there and gained exposure in
(03:26):
the organization. And I have some ideas for her. So
I think it's a pretty standard one, but setting up
one on ones with key people that you want to
get to know, build rapport with, or they're critical to
you actually getting your job done. And these don't need
to be long meetings. They could literally just be fifteen
(03:46):
minute catch ups fifteen minutes where you shoot the shit.
Maybe sometimes there's an agenda, maybe sometimes there's not, And
I think you can put them in people's calendars and
set the expectation like this can be flexible and literally say,
you know, we don't get much overlap. Wanted to put
in this, you know, once a fortnight or once a
mole just so we can keep up with what's going
(04:07):
on in each other's lives or like help each other
out in different ways in the business. So that's one.
This is one that I've used more at my own
company now because we basically have always been remote and
had people across America. And it's when you're sharing your
work with other people, like you're presenting a project, maybe
you want someone's help with something, maybe you're training someone
(04:30):
on something. Using LOOM, I think is a really good
way to get a bit more personable and allow your
personality to shine through. Do you know what loom is?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh? What is loom? I've heard of it, but I'm
not entirely sure.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's really really amazing. You can set up folders, shared
folders with your team. But basically, like if I wanted
to show you a part of the app that we're
building a new feature on I could just go into
loom press record, my little face will come up down
the bottom of the screen whilst I'm also screen sharing,
and I can like use my cursor and everything to
(05:04):
show you the designs whilst I'm talking you through it,
and then it just gets sent to the person in
a video. And it's just a nice way to work
kind of collaboratively from different corners of the globe. It's
the same vein as like sending voice notes, right, you know,
like there's a reason why Hinge built a voice notes
(05:25):
feature and it went viral, Like it's a very good
way to build intimacy. So I would also consider like
sending voice notes to people on Slack, even if they're
going to be responding in the morning. Like we've all
got friends around the world that we probably wake up
to voice notes from, you know, like it's a good
way to kind of keep things personal and intimate and
(05:47):
get to know people. Another one, so mentions like in
lots of our episodes, but it's calling people out for
their work and sending follow ups. This was one I
did a lot of it bumble, like I was kind
of constantly sharing the Australian teams wins in big Slack
(06:08):
channels because I knew I needed to increase all of
our visibility, so sending little Slack updates like just wanted
to shout out so and so she's been working on this.
It achieved this, Like here's an example of some of
the work, Like here's an example of some of the
press and just not being afraid to speak in bigger
channels and to share the wins. I'm assuming this company
(06:31):
is using slack, like especially if they've got people around
the world, but even just participating in interest based channels,
like I don't know if you have interest based channels
at Mama Mea, but like when I was at Bumble,
we would have social posts, brand news, random memes, and
just channels that didn't really mean much, but they allowed
(06:53):
people to show different sides of their personalities and like
you'd see an engineer say something that you just would
not expect that person to like be across or have
that kind of humor. So yeah, those are all little
things that I think can really really help in terms
of networking internally when you're not in the same room.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It's also really good that when you actually do get
the opportunity to travel to. Like if your HQ is
in a different country, you already know everyone, and you
already know them on like a kind of personal level
as well, so it doesn't feel like you're the new
person every time you do those trips.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
One hundred percent. And I honestly think like participating in
random slack channels, Like I'm thinking about the first time
I was ever flown to Austin and I knew no one,
and I'm meeting all these people from Bumble for the
first time, thinking they're gonna hate me, or think like,
who's this weird chick that we've had un over in
Australia doing this, and it's like, I don't know. I
used to always get amongst those weird slack channels and
(07:50):
then I'd see someone write something that I thought was
funny or realized we'd love the same show, and then
I would just start a side conversation with that person
and then kind of like constantly check in about that
sort of thing just to maintain a bit of a friendship.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Nice. Oh my god, there's are such good tip. So
we have to put that in our newsletter this week
because I think this is so helpful.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, And helpful for people just working remote generally, I think.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Okay, so our next question hits very close to home
for me personally. Laura said that she has started in
a small marketing firm eight years ago and has since
left and got more experience. She's now been invited back
to the original firm as a manager. She says, there
are lots of the same employees and she's going from
(08:32):
a junior role to being one of the bosses. So
she's asked us on email how to navigate that. So
I have done kind of the same thing. I started
my career here at Mama Mia. I worked here I
think for it was around five years, and then I
left for a little bit to gain experience at a
different media company, and then I was asked to come
(08:56):
back in a different, more senior role. I think the
only difference is that when I did come back, there
were quite a few new people, and a lot of
my previous colleagues and my close friends who I made
at Mama Mia had left during that time. It is
like a bit awkward coming back, I would say, especially
(09:17):
that first initial week, because you might have a new
leadership team, you might have new colleagues, new juniors, Firstly,
everyone wants to know the gossip, Like everyone wants to
know why did you choose to come back, Like were
you embarrassed to be asked back or something like that,
And it's one of those things where I'm just very truthful.
In those instances, I was just like, ah, it was
(09:40):
more money and kind of what I wanted to do,
so I just came back. I just followed it. But
I think in those situations to navigate it is just
kind of just treating it as a new job, because
you are coming back in a new role, and yes,
you have all this experience in the company, but also
companies changed so so fast, and that was my experience
at Mamma Mia, Like we had new processes, we were
(10:02):
more efficient. I love the people I was working with
when I came back, and I just treated it as
a completely new job and did the same things I
did when I initially started at the company, like joined
all like the culture clubs and said yes to everything
outside of work, and tried to get along with my
new employees and tried to help them get to know
me as a new person. And I think that was
(10:23):
the most efficient way I could have done it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Oh, I think that story is just bang on, and
because it kind of aligns with the advice that I
would give, like staying curious.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I love it when that happens.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
No, honestly, I think like the way you navigated it
is perfect. And I also think the pros of returning
to an organization if you loved it, like outweigh the
maybe potential negatives, Like you've got the historical information of
the company, Like it's probably a pretty fast round up process.
(10:56):
There probably are some things that are similar that you're
familiar with. Maybe there are some people there that you're
familiar with. I think kind of the only real risk,
I well, it's not even a risk, it's just something
that you might have to navigate, which would be if
anyone still perceived you as like that junior employee. But
I kind of think that's like a them type thing,
(11:19):
you know, like it would be a bit of a
weird one, but like maybe it could happen. I wouldn't
worry about it. I'd just kind of see if it
comes up. But I liked what you said around like
so many things had changed and like the processes had changed,
because I think one of the other potential risks would
be if nothing had changed and then you were like
coming back to this company that you know, for Laura
(11:40):
is like eight years back in the past and like
hasn't innovated and things like that. I'm sure those are
things that she unpacked during the interview process. Yeah, and yeah,
I kind of think it's a flex to go back
to a past company because it shows you're fucking good
and they want you.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Back, and like it shows how you're wanted. Yeah, and
you like it and you didn't like really, yeah, you
didn't fuck up your exit interview, which I think a
lot of people they air a lot of dirty laundry
in that interview because it feels like a therapy session essentially.
But I think we Mish talked about this on a
previous episode that if you actually, as a whole really
appreciate this company and you might want to go back
to it, always keep that in the back of your
(12:17):
head when you do any exit interview, because it happens. Okay,
So this question came in about managers and it's a
juicy anonymous question. So if you have an anonymous question,
you can always email us at podcasts at mmamea dot
com dot au. And this person said my boss is
(12:39):
such a micromanager. They're constantly quote checking in to see
if I've done tasks, They nitpick all my work, they
make me see them on most of my emails. Is
it a them problem or do they just hate me?
So I haven't had experience with a micromanager before, but
I have had a micro colleague. If that's a thing
(13:01):
where they constantly just wanted to know every single thing
I was doing. But I think because I will a colleague,
I didn't have to entertain that, so I just kind
of ignore them the whole way.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
But what I've never heard that term before, a micro colleague.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Should we make it a thing? Surely you have like
a nosy colleague. I had this one colleague that was
just constantly looking at my calendar, like she said it
as her default in her calendar to make sure that
she saw every single meeting of mine. I'm like, I
don't understand how this is going to help you.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
That's really fascinating. Maybe she just really idolized you and
was like I need to do what Emmy is doing. Like,
however she prioritizes her time, is how I should prioritize mine.
Maybe it was that I would maybe be flattered.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Okay, I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'll take that anyway. Firstly, it does a fucking suck
having a micromanager, Like it extinguishes your motivation and it
can make work a very unpleasant place. I feel for
this person, but I think when you have a micro manager,
you will say, need to step back and like look
(14:06):
at the big picture. You know, like there's clearly some
kind of trust breakdown that has occurred here, and have
I maybe contributed to that as well? So you know,
this person ended with is it a them problem? Or
do they just hate me? Maybe you know there's something
that's happened where like the trust has been broken, like
are you delivering on your work? Have there been performance conversations?
(14:28):
Like It's a bit of a two way street here.
So I would encourage this person to, you know, open
their mind a little bit to make this stop, because
it is a very debilitating situation to be in. So
I think the first thing I'd recommend is you need
to try and get a micromanager off your back to
assess like if it is a them problem, And a
(14:51):
way you can do that is to over communicate. So
this is a good way to try and build trust
and to stop them breathing down your neck. So you
could say things like, here's what I'm prioritizing this week
and send a list of exactly what you're doing so
they've got it. They haven't asked for it from you,
You've got ahead of it, and you're letting them know
(15:11):
exactly what you're working on. You could also say things
like I'll check back in on Wednesday unless I hit
a blocker before them, So like let them know when
you're gonna catch them up on what you're doing. And
if you do experience things along the way that are
going to slow you down or you're not actually going
to be able to give them the sort of update
you want to give them on Wednesday, then give them
(15:32):
an update ahead of that, like, Hey, I'm actually struggling
with this task more than I thought. Is this something
you've experienced before? Would love to get your advice on it,
and just really start to like you bring them in
on your work instead of them breathing down your neck.
That is going to help you like reclaim a bit
of your power.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Oh that's so smart.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
It can maybe feel a bit annoying to do, but
like it is going to help you get a bit
of clarity around what's going on. You can also set
some boundaries a little bit, like would you prefer I
check in with you before doing X? Or can I
just show you the final version? She said that they
would nitpicky on all of her tasks, so like how
(16:13):
much do they actually want to be involved? And like
start to get a bit of clarity, like do they
really want to be c seed on every single email?
Just over communicating in whatever way you can will get
them off your back. You then need to actually be
delivering with your results. So then performing is going to
help you, know, build the trust. I think if you
(16:35):
are a strong performer and you're over communicating, like maybe
these are two things that you're already doing, then I
think you have a bit of a different problem and
I would be having a conversation with your manager. And
the way you can bring this up is that you
just want to talk about your work styles, Like, hey,
I've noticed we're having to do a lot of back
(16:56):
and forth on the details for you know, certain tasks.
I'd love to get some clarity on where I can
run freely or where you'd like to be looped in,
Like let me know when suits to chat and then
just see what comes up, because presenting it like work
styles also just takes the personal out of it and
keeps it professional. But I would definitely make sure that
(17:17):
you're doing all of this in writing because if all
of these steps fail, then I would say you probably
do have a toxic manager on your hands, and you
might need some proof and you might need some support.
So it's good to document all of this, like do
the over communicating in writing. After you have a one
(17:37):
on one with your manager, like you take control and
be like, hey, thank you so much for your time.
We discussed AB and C. Next steps from here are X,
Y and Z, and just kind of keep it all
documented in case, yeah, you need to escalate.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Things fingers crossed. You don't need that last step, but
if you do, I would also say, document how much
time is spent doing the back and forth versus actually
working on your project, because when you see those time
codes in writing, it may make the biggest difference.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, that's a great point. And this is exhausting stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It is. Oh, that's so good. I wish I had
this for my micro colleague. Well, thank you so much
for helping us clear the biz inbox. This week. If
you have a word question, please send it our way.
You will find a link on where to submit your
questions in our show notes. If you can tell us
your name, or you can remain completely anonymous, it's up
to you.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And if you miss any of our episodes, just scroll
back in your feed and we'll be back in the
busy Inbox next week.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Bye, Zia Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on
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