July 14, 2025 • 20 mins
"Be prepared to stretch and take yourself out of your comfort zone - there is incredible learning and growth in that." In this special episode, Em had the opportunity to get online with Sarah Harden, (the Australian powerhouse who co-founded Reese Witherspoon's $100 million media empire Hello Sunshine) reveals the career strategies that transformed her from a Melbourne politics graduate into one of Hollywood's most influential female executives.
No theoretical fluff—just the exact mindset shifts and strategic moves that built the company behind Big Little Lies, The Morning Show, and Little Fires Everywhere.
Listening to this episode will teach you:
- The specific career move that accelerates everything (and why most women never make it)
- How to replace self-doubt with curiosity when evaluating opportunities
- Why stepping into discomfort is the fastest path to exponential career growth
- The exact framework for turning consumer insights into multi-million dollar business decisions
- How to build authentic company culture from day one
Sarah's "show, don't tell" philosophy has proven that women's stories aren't just culturally important—they're massively profitable. Her partnership with Reese Witherspoon demonstrates the untapped business potential in female-focused storytelling, reaching 150 million women weekly.
Connect with Sarah and Hello Sunshine:
- Follow Hello Sunshine on Instagram
- Learn more about Drop of Sunshine wines
- Visit their website: Hello Sunshine
Must Watch Shows:
Our new BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.
Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.
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Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain anon!
GUEST: Sarah Harden
HOSTS: Em Vernem
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Thom Lion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to BIZ. Your work life Sorted. I'm
M Burnham and look today we have a very special,
slightly different episode of BIZ. Today's episode is an interview,
my first biz interview I've done, and it's someone who
I literally had to hold myself back from fangiring throughout
the whole interview because we had a lot to cover.
(00:38):
She is the CEO of the internationally famous female focused
media entertainment company Hello Sunshine. And if that name sounds familiar,
it's because it's a production company that was founded by
Reese Witherspoon. It's had massive award winning hits like The
Morning Show or Morning Wars as it's known here in Australia,
Big Little Lies, Little Fires everywhere where the crawl Dads sing.
(01:01):
The whole ethos is putting female focused story at the
forefront of every piece of media they do. And it's
not only in the entertainment productions that they make, but
it's also behind the scenes in the actual Hello Sunshine company.
So I sat down with Hallo Sunshine Brilliant CEO Sarah Harden.
(01:22):
We chatted about everything from what it takes to build
and lead a multimillion dollar company to taking risks and
finding success in the uncomfortable. Sarah drops so much nuggets
of wisdom and advice in this interview. She doesn't gatekeep anything,
so you will definitely want to say this episode as
there are many many key learnings. The first question I
(01:42):
want to talk about is when you joined Hallo Sunshine,
there was this massive gap that I guess everyone knew
about this, how women make seventy percent of the purchase
decision making in household, yet for decades our movies and
TV shows were centered around male protagonists. Was there a
(02:03):
specific moment where you went, not only is this wrong,
but there's also a huge business opportunity out of this,
And what made you realize that you could actually change that.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
It's interesting Reese and I we started the company together,
and from the first meeting we both identified this gap
and came to it a little differently. Right. Reese, as
a producer had been going on the studios and hearing
from people.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We've got our sort.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Of one movie already with the Woman, and I had
been building brands a lot of businesses in the sort
of male comedy gaming space, and for a few years
have been like, where is that Women's Center brand? And
when we first met and talked about this, I knew
we'd identified something.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And again it was what a business opportunity was.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It wasn't just about and we're a purpose, mission driven
company to put women, you know, change the narrative for
women through storytelling. But it didn't make sense to me,
and it didn't make sense to Reese that you had
these women over indexing on on content consumption, on purchase decisions.
They are the economic decision makers in their households and
(03:15):
they hold a lot of economic power, and it didn't
make sense to have this massive structural gap. So seeing
the data, whether it's six percent of female directors or everything,
women have been sort of structurally silenced for decades. And
so when I first talked to Reese, we both talked
about it with a business lens, which is, yes, it
feels good to do this, but we are worthy of
(03:38):
building big companies our.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Women.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
We have real power and we have powers consumers. And
we talked about this authorship gap. Right, it just didn't
make sense to us. It felt like a white space
you could drive a truck through. And so when we
first met, it was no, no, no, we got to build
a big business in here. We are tired of admiring
and talking about the problem. And you know, Reese is
(04:05):
very much she talks about you know often she's got
these incredible phrases which are true and born from her life,
is if you want something fixed, you just got to
go and do it. And it was it was like,
I think, could we do this? Could we And we
just had that connection and then we really focused on, Okay,
if we're going to do this, how do we build
it in a way that leverages the advantage that she
(04:27):
brought to the table, which was, you know, an incredible
career as an actress and producer, identifying book to screen properties.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And also how would we.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Build a company built for the next ten or fifteen
years of media, not the ten or fifteen years that
have just gone past. And that's really into which we
had a very clear vision and strategy and that's what
we've been executing on for the last nine years. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Wow, I really want to also talk about Hollow Sunshine
as a company as a whole, because I was reading
a profile you did with Forbes on their Leading with
Purpose campaign. Yeah, you said, if you don't see yourself
in the stories that represent your culture. It tells you
that your experience doesn't matter. And I thought that was
so powerful, and I was wondering, as a leader, how
(05:14):
do you implement that sentiment into your own company, like
what's happening day to day to make the women at
Hallow Sunshine feel seen and heard, not just ticking diversity boxes.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It really stems from ambitionion and how we defined our
goals as a company, right, changing the narrative for women.
And part of this is it's not enough to change representation, right,
that's the starting point.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You have to change who you've seen in the stories.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
But representation without authentic authorship is thin, it's not authentic,
and it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
A winning strategy, right.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And so what we talked about, how do we authentically
ladder from representation to authorship a true authorship and that
includes not only who's involved and who authors individual series
or shows or social posts, but who are our authors
as our employees. And it was trying to create an
(06:09):
authentically related culture where our insights matched our outsides. And
so that's everything from our values and how we define
our values, it's how we hire, it's how we were
very focused even as a very early stage company. I
think the first offsite we ever did as a company,
when I was fifteen people, was of values and culture
offsite because one of the things I've been involved in
(06:31):
building a lot of early stage companies and people, I've
observed that they're quite they can be quite chaotic early on,
and you know, sometimes you get to fifty people and
you start to think about values and culture when it's broken, when.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Things aren't going well.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, and so we tried to be very intentional about that,
and not just for women, also for the men.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
We've got it. You know, the opposite of a.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Patriarchy is not a matriarchy, it's equality, right, and so
everything we look at through that lens.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
I think one is giving women.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Like the people who work for us, they hold a
lot of responsibility.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I mean, they've got to come in.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
There's no We're in the middle of our internship program,
a summer internship. We have eleven interns. These are not
fake internships. The people come in and lately it's not
like you're sitting on a desk and reading some things
and writing report that no one ever are going to
look at. I say, if you come in as an intern,
that's a big commitment from us.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
You're going to work hard.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Each manager has to earn the right to have an intern.
The interns have to do real, meaningful work, and that's
what people want. They want to come into a workplace
know that how does their work connect to the goals
and missions. So one of the early things we did
was defined company goals and have people that individual goals
to company goals. So people got to understand how the
work they were doing connected.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
To what was most important to us.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And it's everything from how we celebrate as a team,
how I run all hands meetings and it's humbling, like
the work of a leader is never done. We're always
in process and we're always working to make sure that
we sort of live up to our promise. And that's
what I spend most of my time on as the CEO.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh that's so good, Sarah. I really want to talk
about your career as a whole, because it's absolutely fascinating.
From consulting in Melbourne to Harvard Business School to leading
a multimillion dollar company. I want to know was that
one strategic career move that accelerated everything for you? And
what do you think women who want to Excel in
(08:28):
their career should be thinking about when planning their next steps.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
When I look back, it feels like I'm a long
way from where I started.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
But each move was just the next step. I think
there were two.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I think one my first job at Boston Consulting Group
in Melbourne, and then I also think moving to the
US to go to Harvard Business School and applying to
do that, and the two things I had in common,
it just put me. I almost think of it like
doing a video game where you get through a level
and all of a sudden you're in a different world.
And I'd done Eastern European politics. I was a politics
(08:59):
graduate at Melbourne UNI, and I grew up with two
entrepreneurial parents. So I had this interesting business, but I
hadn't studied it and I wasn't sure it was for me.
But I heard about consulting, I thought that sounds interesting.
I honestly didn't think I would get a job, and
I applied, and for a whole lot of reas I
ended up getting that job.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It was terrifying.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, put me my first I never used an Excel
spreadsheet except for my twenty first birthday list, right, So,
but it put me with people, and it gave me
advantage point about business and industry. That just totally opened
my aperture and my perspective to things I would not
have even known about, and it made me uncomfortable and
(09:37):
I had to really show up, and that was really
nerve wracking. I think going to business school similarly, I
came with two suitcases.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And then my first job out of busess school, I
started at a.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Tech company with two guys from MYTA and a guy
from my class, instead of going and getting a more
traditional job, right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I think each of those things just opened a.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
World that I didn't even know existed and whyden my
perspective of what was possible, and then also had me
just working and learning from incredible people. And so I
think be prepared to stretch and take yourself out of
a comfort zone like there is just incredible learning and
growth in that. And I do think they felt like
(10:18):
little leaps of faith, they didn't feel huge. One leap
of faith took me to the next, one took me
to the next one, and then all of a sudden,
I living in San Francisco, when I started a tech
company and raised venture capital, I would never have thought
that was possible or that was on my cards. And
now I'm living in LA I've lived in Hong Kong
and San Francisco, and you know, having started Hello Sunshine
and my business partner's res with us, it's even wild.
(10:41):
But I do think be prepared to put yourself out there,
taking just right leaps of faith when they're ready for you.
But really prioritizing early career, prioritizing learning, prioritizing who you
surround yourself with, and.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Having your perspective opened, I think is really it's really
served me. And I think there's something in that.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh that's such good advice. Like even just leaning into
the uncomfortable. I think so many, myself included, I've never
done that, and just to see like how far your
career has gone by doing that is just amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
But you have look, you're hosting a podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Like that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It is.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Cocosts say that it's interesting the lens we tell ourselves
and this is so much more common with women than men,
and all the data supports that we've all seen it.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
But replacing that judgment we have for ourselves. Am I ready?
Can I do it?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
You know, all the data that says women have to
be one hundred percent confident and man.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Like, it's all true.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I see it replacing that with curiosity, which is like, huh,
what would need to be.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
True for me to do it?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
And that lens shifting that lens on ourselves from judgment
to curiosity, which is like, huh, what would I learned
that would be interesting? I think it can open up
perspectives for us, and we're such we're so hard on ourselves. Yeah,
and I always think your twenties and your thirties are
for like and beyond, Like I'm learning as much now
as I did in my twenties and thirties that their
learning is and so prioritize that.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Oh that's such good advice. Okay, I want to quickly
talk about expansion because you're now partnering with Treasury Collective
on drop of Sunshine Wines, so fun. I want to
(12:31):
know how you evaluate new business opportunities like this, Like
what's the criteria for deciding on something that aligns with
your mission and your core values while still being commercially viable.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know, we're very intentional, so we try and do
a few things well. It often starts with consumer insight.
And you know, we speak to about one hundred and
fifty million women a week across our socials. We're listening,
we're seeing where you are convening women in real life.
And one of the things, especially around our Recee's book
club community. You know, if you think about book clubs
and the history of those is intimacy at scale. It's
(13:04):
convening in people's homes. It's connection, people connecting with a
lot of differences. They can connect over books. And what
we saw was this desire for in person connection. And
we met with Treasury too. So everything we do has
to ladder up to our mission. It's got to be
authentically authored. And so when we met with them and
we saw this behavior in all our consumers. Women get together,
(13:27):
They convene, they have a meal, they drink, they drink wine,
they cook for each other, they talk about books, and
there's lots of reasons they get together. Women are the
convenience in our communities.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We're the convenience.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
And so and we met Treasury too, and we were like,
oh my god, the history both from Mary Penford all
the way forward with female wine making team, and we
talked about what would it mean to construct an ethentically
authored wine collection together that celebrated both the female wine
making team and the marketing teams at Treasury and brought
(13:59):
the storytelling and the way we understand.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
How women convene.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
What would it mean to launch that And honestly, we
were talking about that for a long time until we
were like, yes, we always think is this the highest
and best way that we can lean into something we've
noticed about the women who follow us, and very much
I think as a brand, Hello Sunshine leaning into joy, connection, collaboration, authenticity, quality.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And that's what we found.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And as we architected the sort of brand tenants of
Drop of Sunshine, we just we just were so aligned,
and that's the number one thing we look for. We
look for alignment, and then we've got to execute in
really authentic ways. And so it's been really fun and exciting.
And you know, I'm also a huge I love wines,
I love posting, I'm a good cook, I love posting
(14:52):
friends and you know big you know, Sunday pool parties
and as well, like so many women I know.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And so that's where it started.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
And now we've obviously launched a collection both in the
US and in Australia and it's fun year in Australia
and get to celebrate and talk about that directly.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So yeah, that's that's how it came about. And you
know that this is going to.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Be multi year focus and effort for that and Drop
the Sunshine. You'll see that very naturally integrated wherever Hello
Sunshine shows up in the real world and in celebrating
and joy and wherever women can be.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh, I'm so excited to try, like I'm massively I
love it so much.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, Prosecco's great. Honestly, the Prosecco's so good. I'm a
big peanut grigio fan, so that's like very cool. And
I've got two near reds as well at Capsa and
a Chiraz as well.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So yeah, I love Sharass. I can't wait. I just
wanted to ask success means different things to different people,
and I want to know how you define success and
how that definition has evolved while you've been building Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I say, the early parts of my career and you know,
motivated by being able to my kids, be educating all
those personal things, right, A lot of those personal things
and I just really hungry to.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Build, to build purposefully, and you know, hello Sunshine.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I will say the early parts, you know, with Reese's
Partner was to live up to the promise of the
brand and the opportunity. And I think so often I too.
You know, we talk about having a mission. We put
it out that are changed a narrative for women. When
you go and create success, it creates opportunities for people
under you and other companies. It creates space in the industry.
(16:36):
You go and prove that, you know, women's stories are
big business because we're big consumers women solving problems for women,
and they're big businesses, they're big products, they're big opportunities,
and because there's structural gaps there, right, And so I
think for me, what I've where I really sit now
is the success for me as I go forward, is
(16:57):
how are you helping ignite those next generation of leaders?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Trying to be leaders authentically and with as high integrity
as I can, being really open and transparent with our
team about how we build a business so people.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Can maximize their learning.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
There's nothing that makes me happier to think that in
ten or fifteen years time there might be other companies
that solve women's problems, whether content companies or direct to
consumer products companies or anything started by the employees of
Hollow Sunshine and creating that space that says, you know,
if we go demonstrate the economic worth of women's endeavors,
(17:38):
it just creates space for others to follow. And so
my lens right now, I think every month, what's the
highest aves use of my time in the next month
to advance the mission of Hello Sunshine?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And how do you do that in.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
A way that you create sort of systems change? And
I believe that starts with individuals and employees and teams
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And that's where I am in my career of how
do you spur.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Those that next generation of leaders who might have spent
some time in and around Hello Sunshine, and you know,
try and show what's possible. We always say, Hello sun
We're in the show, not tell business. We just got
to go show that stories matter and that they have
worth and not just cultural worth, but they have financial
worth as well. And so you know that to me
(18:27):
is my focus and what feels like success.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Oh that's so powerful.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Sarah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Thank you so so much for your time today. It's
been such a privilege to be able to talk to
you and congrats on the company, like it's so successful,
Like I feel like thanks big little lies, like it's
just what everyone here at MoMA me is just talking
about all the time. And from Melbourne is just such
like a huge successful I think, like all of us here.
(18:53):
So it's been an absolute honor.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
To talk to you get excited for Morning War was.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Oh my god, Morning Wars.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I'm so excited. It is good. And congrats on the
podcast too. I love it. You've done such a nice.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Job of boiling down and being really practice and straightforward.
You know, women, we need more of that. Let's dream
it and you can do it. And it's true, dream
it and you can do it. But actually it's a
lot of hard work, and I think you've done a
really nice job of delivering with that with a podcast.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So I delighted to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Oh that means so much to me. Thank you so
so much, Thank you so much for listening to this
very special episode of BERZ. I am on such a
high from that conversation. I feel like when it comes
to female CEOs of that level, in my head, I
always thought that in that position goes hand in hand
(19:41):
with being straight and rigid and assertive, and just from
talking with Sarah like she's unbelievably smart and driven, but
she's also kind, warm and generally want to see women succeed.
I think the part where she talked about the importance
of stepping out of her comfort zone to move overseas
and how that was a big catalyst for where she
(20:02):
is now really stuck out to me the most, Like,
no matter what your job is or your career path,
it's a good reminder to kind of lean into the
uncomfortable because that could be your sliding doors moment if
you ever want to look back on this episode, because
there is a whole heap of advice that Sarah Gabe.
You can always save this episode in your podcast app
or we do have a completely free newsletter that has
(20:24):
everything you need from every episode. We send it out
once a week. There's a link in our show notes
and that gets delivered straight to your inbox, so you
can get that every single week. Thank you so much
for tuning in. I will catch you on Thursday for
our Biz Inbox episode. Bye Bye, Mamma. Maya acknowledges the
(20:48):
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on.
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello and welcome to BIZ. Your work life Sorted. I'm
M Burnham and look today we have a very special,
slightly different episode of BIZ. Today's episode is an interview,
my first biz interview I've done, and it's someone who
I literally had to hold myself back from fangiring throughout
the whole interview because we had a lot to cover.
(00:38):
She is the CEO of the internationally famous female focused
media entertainment company Hello Sunshine. And if that name sounds familiar,
it's because it's a production company that was founded by
Reese Witherspoon. It's had massive award winning hits like The
Morning Show or Morning Wars as it's known here in Australia,
Big Little Lies, Little Fires everywhere where the crawl Dads sing.
(01:01):
The whole ethos is putting female focused story at the
forefront of every piece of media they do. And it's
not only in the entertainment productions that they make, but
it's also behind the scenes in the actual Hello Sunshine company.
So I sat down with Hallo Sunshine Brilliant CEO Sarah Harden.
(01:22):
We chatted about everything from what it takes to build
and lead a multimillion dollar company to taking risks and
finding success in the uncomfortable. Sarah drops so much nuggets
of wisdom and advice in this interview. She doesn't gatekeep anything,
so you will definitely want to say this episode as
there are many many key learnings. The first question I
(01:42):
want to talk about is when you joined Hallo Sunshine,
there was this massive gap that I guess everyone knew
about this, how women make seventy percent of the purchase
decision making in household, yet for decades our movies and
TV shows were centered around male protagonists. Was there a
(02:03):
specific moment where you went, not only is this wrong,
but there's also a huge business opportunity out of this,
And what made you realize that you could actually change that.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
It's interesting Reese and I we started the company together,
and from the first meeting we both identified this gap
and came to it a little differently. Right. Reese, as
a producer had been going on the studios and hearing
from people.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
We've got our sort.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Of one movie already with the Woman, and I had
been building brands a lot of businesses in the sort
of male comedy gaming space, and for a few years
have been like, where is that Women's Center brand? And
when we first met and talked about this, I knew
we'd identified something.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And again it was what a business opportunity was.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It wasn't just about and we're a purpose, mission driven
company to put women, you know, change the narrative for
women through storytelling. But it didn't make sense to me,
and it didn't make sense to Reese that you had
these women over indexing on on content consumption, on purchase decisions.
They are the economic decision makers in their households and
(03:15):
they hold a lot of economic power, and it didn't
make sense to have this massive structural gap. So seeing
the data, whether it's six percent of female directors or everything,
women have been sort of structurally silenced for decades. And
so when I first talked to Reese, we both talked
about it with a business lens, which is, yes, it
feels good to do this, but we are worthy of
(03:38):
building big companies our.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Women.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
We have real power and we have powers consumers. And
we talked about this authorship gap. Right, it just didn't
make sense to us. It felt like a white space
you could drive a truck through. And so when we
first met, it was no, no, no, we got to build
a big business in here. We are tired of admiring
and talking about the problem. And you know, Reese is
(04:05):
very much she talks about you know often she's got
these incredible phrases which are true and born from her life,
is if you want something fixed, you just got to
go and do it. And it was it was like,
I think, could we do this? Could we And we
just had that connection and then we really focused on, Okay,
if we're going to do this, how do we build
it in a way that leverages the advantage that she
(04:27):
brought to the table, which was, you know, an incredible
career as an actress and producer, identifying book to screen properties.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And also how would we.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Build a company built for the next ten or fifteen
years of media, not the ten or fifteen years that
have just gone past. And that's really into which we
had a very clear vision and strategy and that's what
we've been executing on for the last nine years. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Wow, I really want to also talk about Hollow Sunshine
as a company as a whole, because I was reading
a profile you did with Forbes on their Leading with
Purpose campaign. Yeah, you said, if you don't see yourself
in the stories that represent your culture. It tells you
that your experience doesn't matter. And I thought that was
so powerful, and I was wondering, as a leader, how
(05:14):
do you implement that sentiment into your own company, like
what's happening day to day to make the women at
Hallow Sunshine feel seen and heard, not just ticking diversity boxes.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It really stems from ambitionion and how we defined our
goals as a company, right, changing the narrative for women.
And part of this is it's not enough to change representation, right,
that's the starting point.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You have to change who you've seen in the stories.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
But representation without authentic authorship is thin, it's not authentic,
and it's not.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
A winning strategy, right.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And so what we talked about, how do we authentically
ladder from representation to authorship a true authorship and that
includes not only who's involved and who authors individual series
or shows or social posts, but who are our authors
as our employees. And it was trying to create an
(06:09):
authentically related culture where our insights matched our outsides. And
so that's everything from our values and how we define
our values, it's how we hire, it's how we were
very focused even as a very early stage company. I
think the first offsite we ever did as a company,
when I was fifteen people, was of values and culture
offsite because one of the things I've been involved in
(06:31):
building a lot of early stage companies and people, I've
observed that they're quite they can be quite chaotic early on,
and you know, sometimes you get to fifty people and
you start to think about values and culture when it's broken, when.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Things aren't going well.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, and so we tried to be very intentional about that,
and not just for women, also for the men.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
We've got it. You know, the opposite of a.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Patriarchy is not a matriarchy, it's equality, right, and so
everything we look at through that lens.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
I think one is giving women.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Like the people who work for us, they hold a
lot of responsibility.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I mean, they've got to come in.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
There's no We're in the middle of our internship program,
a summer internship. We have eleven interns. These are not
fake internships. The people come in and lately it's not
like you're sitting on a desk and reading some things
and writing report that no one ever are going to
look at. I say, if you come in as an intern,
that's a big commitment from us.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
You're going to work hard.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Each manager has to earn the right to have an intern.
The interns have to do real, meaningful work, and that's
what people want. They want to come into a workplace
know that how does their work connect to the goals
and missions. So one of the early things we did
was defined company goals and have people that individual goals
to company goals. So people got to understand how the
work they were doing connected.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
To what was most important to us.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And it's everything from how we celebrate as a team,
how I run all hands meetings and it's humbling, like
the work of a leader is never done. We're always
in process and we're always working to make sure that
we sort of live up to our promise. And that's
what I spend most of my time on as the CEO.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh that's so good, Sarah. I really want to talk
about your career as a whole, because it's absolutely fascinating.
From consulting in Melbourne to Harvard Business School to leading
a multimillion dollar company. I want to know was that
one strategic career move that accelerated everything for you? And
what do you think women who want to Excel in
(08:28):
their career should be thinking about when planning their next steps.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
When I look back, it feels like I'm a long
way from where I started.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
But each move was just the next step. I think
there were two.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I think one my first job at Boston Consulting Group
in Melbourne, and then I also think moving to the
US to go to Harvard Business School and applying to
do that, and the two things I had in common,
it just put me. I almost think of it like
doing a video game where you get through a level
and all of a sudden you're in a different world.
And I'd done Eastern European politics. I was a politics
(08:59):
graduate at Melbourne UNI, and I grew up with two
entrepreneurial parents. So I had this interesting business, but I
hadn't studied it and I wasn't sure it was for me.
But I heard about consulting, I thought that sounds interesting.
I honestly didn't think I would get a job, and
I applied, and for a whole lot of reas I
ended up getting that job.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It was terrifying.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, put me my first I never used an Excel
spreadsheet except for my twenty first birthday list, right, So,
but it put me with people, and it gave me
advantage point about business and industry. That just totally opened
my aperture and my perspective to things I would not
have even known about, and it made me uncomfortable and
(09:37):
I had to really show up, and that was really
nerve wracking. I think going to business school similarly, I
came with two suitcases.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And then my first job out of busess school, I
started at a.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Tech company with two guys from MYTA and a guy
from my class, instead of going and getting a more
traditional job, right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I think each of those things just opened a.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
World that I didn't even know existed and whyden my
perspective of what was possible, and then also had me
just working and learning from incredible people. And so I
think be prepared to stretch and take yourself out of
a comfort zone like there is just incredible learning and
growth in that. And I do think they felt like
(10:18):
little leaps of faith, they didn't feel huge. One leap
of faith took me to the next, one took me
to the next one, and then all of a sudden,
I living in San Francisco, when I started a tech
company and raised venture capital, I would never have thought
that was possible or that was on my cards. And
now I'm living in LA I've lived in Hong Kong
and San Francisco, and you know, having started Hello Sunshine
and my business partner's res with us, it's even wild.
(10:41):
But I do think be prepared to put yourself out there,
taking just right leaps of faith when they're ready for you.
But really prioritizing early career, prioritizing learning, prioritizing who you
surround yourself with, and.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Having your perspective opened, I think is really it's really
served me. And I think there's something in that.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh that's such good advice. Like even just leaning into
the uncomfortable. I think so many, myself included, I've never
done that, and just to see like how far your
career has gone by doing that is just amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
But you have look, you're hosting a podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Like that's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It is.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Cocosts say that it's interesting the lens we tell ourselves
and this is so much more common with women than men,
and all the data supports that we've all seen it.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
But replacing that judgment we have for ourselves. Am I ready?
Can I do it?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
You know, all the data that says women have to
be one hundred percent confident and man.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Like, it's all true.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
I see it replacing that with curiosity, which is like, huh,
what would need to be.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
True for me to do it?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
And that lens shifting that lens on ourselves from judgment
to curiosity, which is like, huh, what would I learned
that would be interesting? I think it can open up
perspectives for us, and we're such we're so hard on ourselves. Yeah,
and I always think your twenties and your thirties are
for like and beyond, Like I'm learning as much now
as I did in my twenties and thirties that their
learning is and so prioritize that.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Oh that's such good advice. Okay, I want to quickly
talk about expansion because you're now partnering with Treasury Collective
on drop of Sunshine Wines, so fun. I want to
(12:31):
know how you evaluate new business opportunities like this, Like
what's the criteria for deciding on something that aligns with
your mission and your core values while still being commercially viable.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know, we're very intentional, so we try and do
a few things well. It often starts with consumer insight.
And you know, we speak to about one hundred and
fifty million women a week across our socials. We're listening,
we're seeing where you are convening women in real life.
And one of the things, especially around our Recee's book
club community. You know, if you think about book clubs
and the history of those is intimacy at scale. It's
(13:04):
convening in people's homes. It's connection, people connecting with a
lot of differences. They can connect over books. And what
we saw was this desire for in person connection. And
we met with Treasury too. So everything we do has
to ladder up to our mission. It's got to be
authentically authored. And so when we met with them and
we saw this behavior in all our consumers. Women get together,
(13:27):
They convene, they have a meal, they drink, they drink wine,
they cook for each other, they talk about books, and
there's lots of reasons they get together. Women are the
convenience in our communities.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We're the convenience.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
And so and we met Treasury too, and we were like,
oh my god, the history both from Mary Penford all
the way forward with female wine making team, and we
talked about what would it mean to construct an ethentically
authored wine collection together that celebrated both the female wine
making team and the marketing teams at Treasury and brought
(13:59):
the storytelling and the way we understand.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
How women convene.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
What would it mean to launch that And honestly, we
were talking about that for a long time until we
were like, yes, we always think is this the highest
and best way that we can lean into something we've
noticed about the women who follow us, and very much
I think as a brand, Hello Sunshine leaning into joy, connection, collaboration, authenticity, quality.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And that's what we found.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And as we architected the sort of brand tenants of
Drop of Sunshine, we just we just were so aligned,
and that's the number one thing we look for. We
look for alignment, and then we've got to execute in
really authentic ways. And so it's been really fun and exciting.
And you know, I'm also a huge I love wines,
I love posting, I'm a good cook, I love posting
(14:52):
friends and you know big you know, Sunday pool parties
and as well, like so many women I know.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And so that's where it started.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
And now we've obviously launched a collection both in the
US and in Australia and it's fun year in Australia
and get to celebrate and talk about that directly.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So yeah, that's that's how it came about. And you
know that this is going to.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Be multi year focus and effort for that and Drop
the Sunshine. You'll see that very naturally integrated wherever Hello
Sunshine shows up in the real world and in celebrating
and joy and wherever women can be.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh, I'm so excited to try, like I'm massively I
love it so much.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, Prosecco's great. Honestly, the Prosecco's so good. I'm a
big peanut grigio fan, so that's like very cool. And
I've got two near reds as well at Capsa and
a Chiraz as well.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So yeah, I love Sharass. I can't wait. I just
wanted to ask success means different things to different people,
and I want to know how you define success and
how that definition has evolved while you've been building Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I say, the early parts of my career and you know,
motivated by being able to my kids, be educating all
those personal things, right, A lot of those personal things
and I just really hungry to.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Build, to build purposefully, and you know, hello Sunshine.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I will say the early parts, you know, with Reese's
Partner was to live up to the promise of the
brand and the opportunity. And I think so often I too.
You know, we talk about having a mission. We put
it out that are changed a narrative for women. When
you go and create success, it creates opportunities for people
under you and other companies. It creates space in the industry.
(16:36):
You go and prove that, you know, women's stories are
big business because we're big consumers women solving problems for women,
and they're big businesses, they're big products, they're big opportunities,
and because there's structural gaps there, right, And so I
think for me, what I've where I really sit now
is the success for me as I go forward, is
(16:57):
how are you helping ignite those next generation of leaders?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Trying to be leaders authentically and with as high integrity
as I can, being really open and transparent with our
team about how we build a business so people.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Can maximize their learning.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
There's nothing that makes me happier to think that in
ten or fifteen years time there might be other companies
that solve women's problems, whether content companies or direct to
consumer products companies or anything started by the employees of
Hollow Sunshine and creating that space that says, you know,
if we go demonstrate the economic worth of women's endeavors,
(17:38):
it just creates space for others to follow. And so
my lens right now, I think every month, what's the
highest aves use of my time in the next month
to advance the mission of Hello Sunshine?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And how do you do that in.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
A way that you create sort of systems change? And
I believe that starts with individuals and employees and teams
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And that's where I am in my career of how
do you spur.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Those that next generation of leaders who might have spent
some time in and around Hello Sunshine, and you know,
try and show what's possible. We always say, Hello sun
We're in the show, not tell business. We just got
to go show that stories matter and that they have
worth and not just cultural worth, but they have financial
worth as well. And so you know that to me
(18:27):
is my focus and what feels like success.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Oh that's so powerful.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Sarah.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Thank you so so much for your time today. It's
been such a privilege to be able to talk to
you and congrats on the company, like it's so successful,
Like I feel like thanks big little lies, like it's
just what everyone here at MoMA me is just talking
about all the time. And from Melbourne is just such
like a huge successful I think, like all of us here.
(18:53):
So it's been an absolute honor.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
To talk to you get excited for Morning War was.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Oh my god, Morning Wars.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I'm so excited. It is good. And congrats on the
podcast too. I love it. You've done such a nice.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Job of boiling down and being really practice and straightforward.
You know, women, we need more of that. Let's dream
it and you can do it. And it's true, dream
it and you can do it. But actually it's a
lot of hard work, and I think you've done a
really nice job of delivering with that with a podcast.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So I delighted to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Oh that means so much to me. Thank you so
so much, Thank you so much for listening to this
very special episode of BERZ. I am on such a
high from that conversation. I feel like when it comes
to female CEOs of that level, in my head, I
always thought that in that position goes hand in hand
(19:41):
with being straight and rigid and assertive, and just from
talking with Sarah like she's unbelievably smart and driven, but
she's also kind, warm and generally want to see women succeed.
I think the part where she talked about the importance
of stepping out of her comfort zone to move overseas
and how that was a big catalyst for where she
(20:02):
is now really stuck out to me the most, Like,
no matter what your job is or your career path,
it's a good reminder to kind of lean into the
uncomfortable because that could be your sliding doors moment if
you ever want to look back on this episode, because
there is a whole heap of advice that Sarah Gabe.
You can always save this episode in your podcast app
or we do have a completely free newsletter that has
(20:24):
everything you need from every episode. We send it out
once a week. There's a link in our show notes
and that gets delivered straight to your inbox, so you
can get that every single week. Thank you so much
for tuning in. I will catch you on Thursday for
our Biz Inbox episode. Bye Bye, Mamma. Maya acknowledges the
(20:48):
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on.
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