August 25, 2025 • 27 mins
Let's be honest...thinking you can just pick up where you left off after maternity leave is like expecting to run a marathon after taking a year off training. Everything's changed - including you. This week, we're tackling the messy, meaningful reality of returning to work after maternity leave and how to keep growing your career when your priorities have completely shifted.
From navigating the emotional whirlwind of feeling like a different person at work, to mastering the art of being visible when you're working part-time. We explore why the "mental load" hits harder than anyone warns you about, tackle the confidence crisis that comes with feeling like people are doing you a favour by giving you part-time work, and bust the myth that career growth stops when you start working flexibly.
What you'll learn:
-
How to have the pre-return conversation that prevents you from drowning in an impossible workload
• The salary negotiation reality check - if you were on $100k full-time, that budget still exists for your part-time return
• Why being strategic about visibility beats showing up to everything (and the PAYO method that makes every meeting count)
Resources Mentioned:
Our BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.
Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.
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AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to a Mom with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hello, and welcome to biz Your work life sorted.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I'm a Burnham and I'm Wassily.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So something that I constantly think about more often than
I should is what is going to happen to my
career and job if or when I.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Have a baby. I have two children, so I've been
through that parental leave thing twice, and I will cave
it this whole episode with I am not an expert.
I find it very funny when people have kids and
then they think they're an expert and routines and things
and all the things you should do. Everyone's are so different. Yeah,
and they've only been through it once? Yeah, twice? Like
since when did going through something once or twice make
(00:49):
you an expert? So I'm not an expert, but I
have felt all of these things, you know, the push,
the pull, the scramble, the weird guilt, the part of
you that wants to pick up where you left off
and the part that knows you're not quite the same. Yeah. So,
whether you're going back to a job you know well
or you're starting something new, that first step back can
really throw you your last change, your priorities, have shifted,
(01:12):
be your ambition is still there. So this episode is
for anyone navigating that messy, meaningful, I guess, sometimes maddening
moment of coming back from parent to leave. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I think this episode is literally just a whole bunch
of me asking you questions and like writing down notes
because I have a lot of questions, mainly about like
the return to work after having a baby, like the
emotional side of things, the professional side of things, the
logistical side of things, and how to not just survive
that but also make sure you're still growing in your
(01:42):
career after that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
If that's something you want to do, yeah, let's get
into it. This is gonna be a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So we are some of the moms here at Mama
Mia what it was like when they return to work
after having a kid. I'm currently working three days a week,
and I just feel so invisible.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
It feels like everything happens on my days off. I
want to keep growing in my career, but I can't
work sixty hour weeks. It's not sustainable. So how do
you actually get promoted when you're working part time?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I actually realized I was way more strategic after having kids,
because they had to be okay. So I want to
start with the emotional side of coming back. Let's get
the hard stuff out of the way first, because what
I hear from friends who have had children is that
no one really prepares you for how you immediately feel
coming back to work after that.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I think what surprised me most both times was
how weird it felt, even the second time doing it.
Like you've been living in one world. It's like intense,
full on world of parenting and then suddenly seventy to
one that hasn't changed, but you have, and you really
notice it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Was it like an initial notice or was it something
that you're like, oh, it crept up after a while.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And for me, it felt like watching myself in a workplace,
like you could see it playing out, Like I just
feel a bit weird. I feel a bit different, not
weird bad or we're good, just like not the same
as I felt before.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's so interesting because you're obviously, like so career driven
and work focused, but I've also heard that there's like
these complex feelings around wanting to be present at home
but also wanting to be present at work. And for
someone who's not had kids, and I'm quite ignorant to
that sense of feeling. Is that for me in my
head it sounds quite easy, like bring your work self
(03:29):
to work and bring your home stelf to home. And
I know that's not true.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's very hard to compartment's life it because just because you,
you know, have dropped your child off daycare or whatever
you're doing, it doesn't mean you stop thinking about them
and thinking about all the things that are required at
the end of the day. Yeah, my husband and I
often joke about, you know, you'd be getting the kids
ready for the day and you'd arrive at work and
it was like you're holding your breath in the morning
(03:53):
and then you just like exhale and you feel like
you've lived a whole life just before nine o'clock. Oh
my god. And you don't just let that go when
you walk out the door, right or walk into work.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
And he has me to.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Sleep till eight am. Crawling out of bed at eight thirty,
I feel like I've lived a life before nine am,
and not a bad way, right, it's just a way
of this is how life works now, and this is
how our family works now. And I'm trying to do
both things and do them the best I can do.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So as someone who, like yourself, I'm so passionate of
my career and like who I am at work, that
it is something that I am quite scared of because
I've seen so many women who are at one point
in their career and then they go have their baby,
and it's like their priorities just immediately change in their head,
(04:38):
and they come back to work, maybe in like a
different position, or they might come back for like part time,
or they might come back and just have completely new
set of like career goals essentially. And for me, what
I'm scared of is not knowing what person I'll be
after having a baby, if I choose to have one.
Was that something that like you prepared for? Was that
something that completely throw you?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Not at all. I Mean the preparation you're doing is
like naps and logistical drop offs and who's taking the
child there, and then who's doing dinner and all those things.
I think you naturally go to the rational logistical things
that you should plan. Yeah, the emotional side, I mean,
I loved my time on parental leave, and I also
really look forward to dipping my toe back in the
(05:19):
water and coming back to work as well, and so
that was a bit of a conflict as well, because
I'm like, does this mean I don't love my baby
as much? Or if I'm thinking about my baby, doesn't
mean I don't love work and what's going on here?
And you start to reconcile that you can love both
of those things in different ways, and that starts to
ease some of the guilt and what you're doing. But
(05:39):
the guilt is always there because you're thinking all the
time about something else.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
How did you come to that reconciliation though.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
We'll get into this in a little bit. I think
reconciling what you want your life to be like and
what you want success to look like. Because pre baby,
so often we're in that whole escalated mentality of I
will get this job, and then I will get this job,
and it's just like the next job in front of me, right,
And then you have a child and you have a
chance to step away, which is actually really amazing. For perspective,
(06:08):
do I really want to do this job? It's something
I enjoy. If I'm going back and I put it
on my left, have a baby, have a baby. For
a perspective, do I want to do this job? Do
I like working in this industry? Now I've had a
baby and I'm going to be spending time away from
my baby to work. What is it that I want
to be doing? Those are certainly all the things that
(06:29):
I went through, right, And so to get that perspective,
you go, when I am here and i'm doing this,
I'm going to make sure I'm doing something that I
value and it is valuable to the business too, so
it feels really worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
What was your biggest shock upon coming back and realizing
that you were a different person at work?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Now? The thing I didn't plan for and think about
was the mental load because you're not just returning to work,
you're layering on top of this like a whole lot
of new responsibilities you didn't have before. And we were
joking about this before the episode, Right, Your weekends are
totally different, your mornings are totally different, and there's all
all these things you think of. So before kids, you
(07:08):
just get up, you get yourself ready, go to the gym,
maybe see some friends.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And take time doing your makeup.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Sit on the floor and do your make up. I
used to do that. It's such a nice like treat
in the morning. Now You've already done fifty things before
nine am, Like someone's probably woken you up through the night.
You've got breakfast, It wasn't the breakfast they wanted. Got breakfast,
trying your hardest to get yourself ready and also like
prevent some kind of like colossal meltdown about shoes or
(07:35):
something and getting out the door on time, and it just
totally fair.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Shoes can be quite intense.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I mean, what shoes low? I don't like those shoes today? Ok,
you like them yesterday? Sure, And you kind of like
hold it all in and then you get to work
and you let it out. And sometimes one day it
can be a relief you get to have a coffee
by yourself that's hot and it's quiet. And then other
times like you miss them like mad because you you
can send a photo from childcare going look what they're
doing today, You're like far out. I just missed out
(08:02):
on that. But the mental lobe was really big for
me because well, what was happening right is I was
like juggling all these daycare drop offs, remembering her needs,
what the shoes, the planning the dinner, while also replying
to emails and being really present. No one really sees
that part coming. It's like always running in the background
all day, every day. And I think that's one of
the biggest things you could do to empathize with someone
(08:23):
who is returning, is knowing that they're thinking of a
million things and probably not themselves. So for me, it
wasn't it. I still is a bit is that constant
juggle and it never ever fully switches off.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, it's funny. I feel like I bring up my
mum in every single episode we do. But I feel
like I only really empathize with my mom when I
started working full time and I could see a lot
of my colleagues who were first time mothers like having
to juggle kids plus work because my mom started her
career in her early thirties after she had me. So
(08:57):
she had me, went on leave, and then just started
a completely new job in a completely new company straight
after having me. And I remember, like so specifically the
guilt she felt every time she left because I was
an insane kid, Like I remember like because my grandparents
used to look after me because both of my parents worked,
(09:18):
and I remember like her trying to sneak out and
I just like fling open the door and run after
her and like try to get myself into the car
and be screaming and crying and like knocking on like
my dad's like car window, like crying, don't leave me.
And like they probably they went through that like every
single day they left, probably traumatized with the rest.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Of their worked out.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
One of them would have burst into tears, into tears,
and then I just go back inside with my papa
and just watch TV any breakfast, like nothing ever happened.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Anyway, they've gone now and they're like completely traumatized. To
the rest that I am. That happens too, So it's
like this whole emotional whirlwind of returning. And I think
one of the things we don't talk about enough is
that you can always a bit of confidence while you're
in printer leave, especially if you're not in touch with
work over that time, because twelve months is a long time.
If you have the luxury of taking twelve some people
(10:06):
don't take that. Let's say you've taken twelve months, you
lose the confidence. Like I remember at some point almost
feeling like people were doing me a favor giving me
a job part time, And that's not true, right, I
had a lot of value to bring. I was valued
before I went on parantal leave, why would I not
be valued on my return? And when that confidence hits
(10:28):
I was promised promotions before I went on parantal leave,
or promised salary increases when I returned. How do you
think I went with that? Like when I was coming
back and I hadn't been doing it for a year,
I wasn't really negotiating, was I No. I didn't feel
like I had enough to go off, but I should
have and something. This is like super nitty gritty advice here,
(10:49):
but I give it to a lot of friends who
go back. Now they go, oh, you know, they're doing
me a favor because they're making the role part time.
And they did promise me a salary increase, you know,
I as part of the review and everything before I left.
But I guess they just don't have budget. Now I'm like,
I'm sorry. When you go on parental leave, they need
to budget for your return at full time. That's what
(11:10):
every business needs to do. Every CFO or financial person
listening to this is hating me right now because I'm
peeking back the curtains we're talking to you. So I'm
not good at spontaneous mass, but let's roll with it.
If you're on one hundred k full time salary and
you're coming in part time, you want to do three
days a week, they still have one hundred k budgeted,
not sixty k, right, So if you were meant to
(11:30):
get that five K increase, it's there, it's available to you,
So ask for it and back yourself. And I think
just remember the credibility and the value brought to the
business and how you can bring that now again in
different ways, and ask for the salary that reflects them.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
So when someone comes back and you've equipped them with
this knowledge, like say there's one hundred k and they're
coming back part time, and they're probably like I feel like,
there'll also be that imposter syndrome of like what if
my parental leave cover is like better at me and
my job and they want to keep that person, Like,
what is actually their right to say in those meetings
when they come back to work.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well, it depends on if someone has replaced you, and
someone's taken a parent to leave cover while you're there,
and of course you'll be going, oh my gosh, they're
better than me at this job and may even go
to have a job when I come back, or equally,
if you're coming back and they hadn't replaced you, like
they just absorbed the work, etc. A lot of people
lose the confidence because they go, do they even need
(12:27):
me anymore? Yeah, and that's really hard to work through.
But I think at least if you ask the question,
you know where you're adding value as well on how
you can contribute to the business. And remind yourself of
this as well, Like remind yourself of a few wins
that you had before you left, because I guarantee and
I see this in every single person who goes on
preen to leave, they work their butts off before they leave. Yeah,
and they achieved so many things. Remind yourself of those
(12:50):
moments and take that into the conversation. Okay, let's talk visibility,
because we touched on this just before. But I think
this is one of the biggest fears people have, especially
if you're returning part time all working flexibly in some way.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, do you ever feel and I'm sure so many
people have felt this, and I've heard this from friends
as well, you feel like you're kind of fading into
the background and you're kind of out of mind, not
only because you feel like you're coming back into this
role after being away for so long, but because your
priority shift, Like you might have a different time than
anyone else because you have to do kid drop off,
might have to leave earlier because you have to pick
(13:28):
up your kids, or you might just have to be
off because of like six days. Like, there's so many
things that I feel like parents, especially parents of young kids,
go through where they're just like not being seen by
anyone in the office workspace. And I think we still
associate and we talk about this with working from home
as well. We still have that like older generation mindset
(13:49):
where so if I'm not seeing you, then you can't
be doing any work.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Physical presence, Yeah, I think visibility isn't about showing up
to everything though, It's about showing up to the right
things and things that matter. We touched on this before.
You feel like you're not needed anymore or is my
role even needed anymore? But once you land on what's
needed and being visible in the right ways, then that
can actually change your perspective around it.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Right, So how does that actually look?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So one of the things that I recommend to so
many people, and it's something that I think I did right.
There are things I did wrong, which I've just shared
with you how to change that. But one of the
things I did do right was have this really honest
conversation up front about what does returning look like? Where
was I adding value beforehand? How can I add value now,
where is the business at etc. And kind of mapping
(14:34):
that out together and going through it. What will so
often happen to people is that they'll come together with
this role and go here and we'd love you to
do this, and you're like, that's great, but I'm returning
three days, so like, is this possible in three days?
Have that conversation up front, because if you don't have that,
then you're setting yourself up to fail. You're trying to
achieve all these things. That's actually a full time role,
(14:57):
not a part time role. And when you go through
that kind of process and pair it back with them,
then you can highlight things that are going to keep
you most visible and most valuable to the business as well.
I mean I remember going through this so the second
time when I was coming back and we went into
discussing the role, it was a leadership role too, and
it was part time. What are the things that you
(15:17):
want me to do, like what's most important, what's going
to move the dial? That I can do in two
and a half three days? And this business is quite progressive.
And they said, do you know what we actually don't
when you're doing this admin and this thing and that thing,
especially at the salary we're paying you at for a
leadership role, like we can get someone to do this
at an admin level, etc. So we really paired the
role back into something was doable and something was valuable.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But if we hadn't had that conversation up front and
I just walked into the same job as last time,
the same responsibilities, but I was part time, I was
going to melt and they were going to melt about
it too.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
That's so interesting And I do think that that also
can be applied to literally anyone, Like not even if
you're coming back from parental leave or you're moving from
a full time role to a part time role, but
even if you are like say you get a promotion
or you get a new job, and you get that
new JD and you read that JD. And what I
like to do in my previous roles was that I'd
(16:14):
like to make a calendar for myself. Oh I love
that and like insert And I'm a numbers first person,
So I put like every single thing in my JD
in a calendar Monday to Friday, what times I would
do them, and the time it would take me to
do it, time blocking, and I'd share that with my
manager and be like just letting you know, this is
what it looks like. And there's sometimes I was like
occasionally where there it be like a whole chunk that
would just fall on a weekend or.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Fall like out of hours.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And I think when you visually see that, even you
as a person seeing your own workload, it might look
so much smaller on just a piece of paper and
writing compared to when you actually schedule it out.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That is awesome advice, but you.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Literally realized like probably also be a surprise to your
managers where we're like, oh sorry, we'll get someone else
to do that. Oh sorry do this instead.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, right, Like you can see these bullet points on
a page, it's like, what does that even mean? And
what does good look like in that? To you? Does
that mean I'm delivering this three times a week? And
how does that work? Et cetera.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Especially going from full time to part time, because I
think the easiest thing to do is just do your
full time role in a part time schedule and that
never will ever work out.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No, And it's not great for you because you resented.
And also then the business is like what you said,
there was nothing wrong with it and it's fine. So
kind of setting yourself up to fail. So be really
confident in having that discussion. And I know it can
be hard and you feel like you're being pushy and
all the guilt and the other emotions that come with
it as well, But if you don't have that conversation
(17:33):
up front, then everything else is harder after that. So
other practical things you can do. One of the things
I think worked really well for me when I was
working in a part time role was I like to
visualize things too. I am a big lover of Monday
dot com.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
We as Monday here. It's a really great scheduling application.
Can you a desktop on phone?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
What I found with Monday, because the business side works
out all operated on Monday is the days I wasn't there,
they could see everything around like what was going on,
what was in progress, etc. And they're like, how are
you achieved all these things and how are you moving
them forward? So that was a way of me keeping
things visible and accountable and them aware of what the
workload was and how it could be managed. Because especially
(18:14):
with that, I could then go here are all the
things which is most important for this week. They're like,
oh okay, and they like kind of had to visually
pick and chew. So I like, you know, building on
your example of like visualizing through calendar. Visualizing through Monday
was a big one for me, and they're just like
recapping it on a Friday. It's like here all things
that are out this week and what we're setting up
for for next week, which I think is actually just
(18:36):
a good rhythm to get into in any team you're in,
regardless of peranal life.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
That's such good advice. My favorite type of coworker is
someone who is so particular about meetings, like they know
exactly and I'm talking about myself here. They know exactly
which meetings are important, which meetings could just be an email,
which meetings don't need to exist at all, and they're
super alert in that space where especially I think with
(19:02):
reoccurring meetings, a lot of people can form the trap
where you might just have a reoccurring meeting that happens
every week, and you get to a point where you're like,
why do you even have this meeting exactly?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And what we're saying here is that it needs to
be really intentional with your time, not just be present
and floating around and feel like you have to go
to these things, you have to go to the lunch,
et cetera. Something that I got a whole business into
was if a meeting was set, it had to have
a PAYO. Now, a payohy oh, yes, a PAYO stands
for I learned this from Amantha INMBO, who's like the
(19:34):
guru of productivity, which is amazing. It stands for purpose, agenda,
and outcome. And if you can't tell me those three things,
then we're not having a meeting. So the meetings didn't
happen unless it was a payo. And if you went
through the pay and went actually, we could probably just
like do this async, like do it on Slack or
you know, send each other over to my desk or
(19:55):
my desk, like we don't have to sit here and
then fill the alloted sixty minutes. Yeah, then meetings wouldn't happen.
So what I guess we're suggesting here is be visible,
but be intentional about it company.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So I want to talk about the next chapter. After
you get back to work, you're back in your career
growth mindset. What does that actually look like now that
you've just had kids.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, this is where a lot of people get stuck.
So I'm really glad we're touching on it. You know,
we're not given a roadmap for how to grow a
career while working flexibly or part time. We don't have
a lot of good examples to refer to. But I
think the more that we share as parents, the more
that we can start to help each other and help ourselves.
And the system kind of assumes that you'll just make
it work. Most of the time you're juggling with whatever
(20:42):
support you can piece together. And it does feel like
that for the first six months, like you're trying to
piece together this new way of life and way of
working to.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, and it's like literally what I said before, like
in my head, it's very much like, Okay, so when
you're working, you're at work, and when you're at home,
you're at home and doing home stuff with your kids.
And I know that's just super ignorant because it's like,
obviously you're still thinking about your kids when you're at work,
and vice versa, Like, yeah, I know so many people
who have kids who just just never shut off and
(21:11):
they're answering slacks or emails at like nighttime, and I'm like,
I know this is bar time. I know's a bar.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Time, And that can go really well either way. Like
sometimes I would get into that zoneo feeling guilty because
I'd left at four o'clock to go to pick up,
and so I would log back on and I would
work and there was a running joke that I would
be the last one on slack. And then other times
it worked really well because I'd hold that boundary and
I'd be like, I'm not available between four and seven
because it's dinner, bath, bed, and if there's something I
(21:38):
need to pick up, I will pick it up between
seven and eight. Yeah, and we'll go from there. But
the boundary thing is big, yeah, for yourself as much
as with other people.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
My friend coworker stays she always does this thing because
she lives so far away from work, like an hour
long train ride, and she has a kid, and she
always does this thing where she will leave at four thirty,
and she says the same thing every single day, where
she's like, I'm leaving now, I'll be back online on
the train. I'll be back online when I get home.
Every single day she does that, Yeah, every single day,
(22:08):
we're like stop it, go leave. Yeah, and even I
don't even have kids, and I feel like I do it.
I think it's something that's so innately true for women,
mostly where you always have to show that you're always
working and you're always working to one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, I have been stacy. I think something that changed
for me in that, because I was definitely guilty of
that for a while, was starting to think about outcomes
over hours, What are the outcomes I've driven today? And
so I started doing this thing where I was like,
I might be working this many hours, and I can
guarantee you a working parent like they use every minute
(22:42):
of the day very effectively. So yes, they might have
only been online from ten to four, but they've probably
done something that anyone could have done from eight tel six.
So one of the things I started doing was going,
today is a good day if I have done X,
Y and Z, and if I've done those things, And
it was four o'clock, I'm like, I'm leaving loudly. I'm like,
I'm done for the day. I've done all the things
(23:03):
I need to do. I'm out of here. See you
guys tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, especially if you're in a manager position, because and
I know this is so true for so many young
women in particular who want to grow their career and
want to prove themselves and show up. If your manager
says that I don't expect you to answer emails after hours,
I don't expect you to slack after hours. But if
they're doing it, obviously you're going to do it as well.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Again, guilty of this because I work weird hours because
I want to be at the basketball game or I
want to be doing this thing, so I will do
something at nine o'clock at night. And that's my choice. Yeah,
And sometimes it is your choice, and that's great, and
that's what works for you, and that's okay too. You've
just got to be work out if you're happy with
the boundaries that you've said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
And just have an honest conversation with your team. I
was like, exactly why you're doing that?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So they're like, okay, so I don't have to reply
to you at ten pm.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
No. No, And I don't expect you to reply or
maybe schedule sands. I think the other thing we should
touch on as well is that career growth doesn't have
to look the same as it did after you had kids.
A lot of people get hooked on this idea of like, ill,
I just can't get promoted if I'm part time, or
I can't go for that role if I'm part time
as well. And I think that's a mindset we really
have to shift. How do you shift that? Something that
(24:16):
happened to me was redundancy. Yeah, so that was a
big shift. I mean that was my hand was forced there, right,
So I was on parental leave with my second child,
and yeah, I got made redundant. But I guess that
forced my hand as well while I was in leave
to go what do I actually want to do next?
And I do want to grow my career, like I
(24:38):
am really driven, etc. But what does it look like
and what kind of work is it? I mean we
have touched on this before. I'm a little bit type
A and not everyone does this, but I was using
nap time later on to like go and upskill and
do like little things or read articles and stuff like
that and through my network, because keep your network alive.
Please while you're on parental leave, don't completely switch off.
(25:00):
I got my absolute dream job that was in a
leadership role and it was part time. Oh my god. Wow,
I'm not the only case. Like my best friend was
in a job share role in a leadership role for
a long time and it worked amazingly. Two mums coming
together with great experience, the business got two brains for
the price of one.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So these things can happen as long as you're having
the conversation around it and you're thinking about it and
going what do I want here and what can I do?
As well? You don't have to prove you're the same.
You've changed in that perspective is really valuable. You have
to remember how you bring value and what you want
to bring value to. Growth can still happen, but it
might look different. So think stretch not ladder, and think
(25:41):
pivot or think sideways moves. I grew, but I put
the work in to go what do I want and
what does that role look like? And who in my
network can I talk to about that? Play the long game,
like your timeline is your own, so don't let comparison
rush your path. You only get this one time with
your child being one year old or eighteen months old,
two years old, whatever that time is. Whereas work, and
(26:03):
this is coming from an ambitious person, you can drop in,
change move at any point in time and you can
build those skills to do that, and you're never going
to get that time back with your child. So make
sure that you're not thinking that there's a timeline in
your career and you have to achieve X, y Y.
You can build that at any moment. That's such a
good advice. One useful thing, have a clarity combo before
(26:26):
your return.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So it's my favorite time of the episode out about
one useful thing, and my useful thing is actually going
to be another question for you. So I want to
know that if you're in this moment right now, like
you're returning to work, you're trying to figure out how
this new self of you is going to work with
your old job. What's worth holding onto.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
So if you're heading back to work or still finding
your rhythm months in, you don't have to choose between
being a parent and being ambitious.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You can be both, So start small this week, have
one honest conversation with your manager, try one visibility strategy,
or just give yourself permission to read. Find what success
actually looks like Now.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Those juggling skills you're mastering, they're actually making you better
at work, not worse. You're not falling behind. You're just
playing a different game now.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And if you're not in this era of your life,
share this with the working parent who just needs the
reminder because we're all figuring it out as we go.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
That's BIZ for this week. Follow us on Instagram at
bizby Mama Mia for more and also thanks to Sophie
Campbell and Leopord just for making this happen.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Back yourself, trust your timeline and we will see you
next week.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to a Mom with Me podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hello, and welcome to biz Your work life sorted.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I'm a Burnham and I'm Wassily.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So something that I constantly think about more often than
I should is what is going to happen to my
career and job if or when I.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Have a baby. I have two children, so I've been
through that parental leave thing twice, and I will cave
it this whole episode with I am not an expert.
I find it very funny when people have kids and
then they think they're an expert and routines and things
and all the things you should do. Everyone's are so different. Yeah,
and they've only been through it once? Yeah, twice? Like
since when did going through something once or twice make
(00:49):
you an expert? So I'm not an expert, but I
have felt all of these things, you know, the push,
the pull, the scramble, the weird guilt, the part of
you that wants to pick up where you left off
and the part that knows you're not quite the same. Yeah. So,
whether you're going back to a job you know well
or you're starting something new, that first step back can
really throw you your last change, your priorities, have shifted,
(01:12):
be your ambition is still there. So this episode is
for anyone navigating that messy, meaningful, I guess, sometimes maddening
moment of coming back from parent to leave. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I think this episode is literally just a whole bunch
of me asking you questions and like writing down notes
because I have a lot of questions, mainly about like
the return to work after having a baby, like the
emotional side of things, the professional side of things, the
logistical side of things, and how to not just survive
that but also make sure you're still growing in your
(01:42):
career after that.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
If that's something you want to do, yeah, let's get
into it. This is gonna be a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So we are some of the moms here at Mama
Mia what it was like when they return to work
after having a kid. I'm currently working three days a week,
and I just feel so invisible.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
It feels like everything happens on my days off. I
want to keep growing in my career, but I can't
work sixty hour weeks. It's not sustainable. So how do
you actually get promoted when you're working part time?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I actually realized I was way more strategic after having kids,
because they had to be okay. So I want to
start with the emotional side of coming back. Let's get
the hard stuff out of the way first, because what
I hear from friends who have had children is that
no one really prepares you for how you immediately feel
coming back to work after that.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I think what surprised me most both times was
how weird it felt, even the second time doing it.
Like you've been living in one world. It's like intense,
full on world of parenting and then suddenly seventy to
one that hasn't changed, but you have, and you really
notice it.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Was it like an initial notice or was it something
that you're like, oh, it crept up after a while.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And for me, it felt like watching myself in a workplace,
like you could see it playing out, Like I just
feel a bit weird. I feel a bit different, not
weird bad or we're good, just like not the same
as I felt before.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
It's so interesting because you're obviously, like so career driven
and work focused, but I've also heard that there's like
these complex feelings around wanting to be present at home
but also wanting to be present at work. And for
someone who's not had kids, and I'm quite ignorant to
that sense of feeling. Is that for me in my
head it sounds quite easy, like bring your work self
(03:29):
to work and bring your home stelf to home. And
I know that's not true.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's very hard to compartment's life it because just because you,
you know, have dropped your child off daycare or whatever
you're doing, it doesn't mean you stop thinking about them
and thinking about all the things that are required at
the end of the day. Yeah, my husband and I
often joke about, you know, you'd be getting the kids
ready for the day and you'd arrive at work and
it was like you're holding your breath in the morning
(03:53):
and then you just like exhale and you feel like
you've lived a whole life just before nine o'clock. Oh
my god. And you don't just let that go when
you walk out the door, right or walk into work.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
And he has me to.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Sleep till eight am. Crawling out of bed at eight thirty,
I feel like I've lived a life before nine am,
and not a bad way, right, it's just a way
of this is how life works now, and this is
how our family works now. And I'm trying to do
both things and do them the best I can do.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So as someone who, like yourself, I'm so passionate of
my career and like who I am at work, that
it is something that I am quite scared of because
I've seen so many women who are at one point
in their career and then they go have their baby,
and it's like their priorities just immediately change in their head,
(04:38):
and they come back to work, maybe in like a
different position, or they might come back for like part time,
or they might come back and just have completely new
set of like career goals essentially. And for me, what
I'm scared of is not knowing what person I'll be
after having a baby, if I choose to have one.
Was that something that like you prepared for? Was that
something that completely throw you?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Not at all. I Mean the preparation you're doing is
like naps and logistical drop offs and who's taking the
child there, and then who's doing dinner and all those things.
I think you naturally go to the rational logistical things
that you should plan. Yeah, the emotional side, I mean,
I loved my time on parental leave, and I also
really look forward to dipping my toe back in the
(05:19):
water and coming back to work as well, and so
that was a bit of a conflict as well, because
I'm like, does this mean I don't love my baby
as much? Or if I'm thinking about my baby, doesn't
mean I don't love work and what's going on here?
And you start to reconcile that you can love both
of those things in different ways, and that starts to
ease some of the guilt and what you're doing. But
(05:39):
the guilt is always there because you're thinking all the
time about something else.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
How did you come to that reconciliation though.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
We'll get into this in a little bit. I think
reconciling what you want your life to be like and
what you want success to look like. Because pre baby,
so often we're in that whole escalated mentality of I
will get this job, and then I will get this job,
and it's just like the next job in front of me, right,
And then you have a child and you have a
chance to step away, which is actually really amazing. For perspective,
(06:08):
do I really want to do this job? It's something
I enjoy. If I'm going back and I put it
on my left, have a baby, have a baby. For
a perspective, do I want to do this job? Do
I like working in this industry? Now I've had a
baby and I'm going to be spending time away from
my baby to work. What is it that I want
to be doing? Those are certainly all the things that
(06:29):
I went through, right, And so to get that perspective,
you go, when I am here and i'm doing this,
I'm going to make sure I'm doing something that I
value and it is valuable to the business too, so
it feels really worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
What was your biggest shock upon coming back and realizing
that you were a different person at work?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Now? The thing I didn't plan for and think about
was the mental load because you're not just returning to work,
you're layering on top of this like a whole lot
of new responsibilities you didn't have before. And we were
joking about this before the episode, Right, Your weekends are
totally different, your mornings are totally different, and there's all
all these things you think of. So before kids, you
(07:08):
just get up, you get yourself ready, go to the gym,
maybe see some friends.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And take time doing your makeup.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Sit on the floor and do your make up. I
used to do that. It's such a nice like treat
in the morning. Now You've already done fifty things before
nine am, Like someone's probably woken you up through the night.
You've got breakfast, It wasn't the breakfast they wanted. Got breakfast,
trying your hardest to get yourself ready and also like
prevent some kind of like colossal meltdown about shoes or
(07:35):
something and getting out the door on time, and it just
totally fair.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Shoes can be quite intense.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I mean, what shoes low? I don't like those shoes today? Ok,
you like them yesterday? Sure, And you kind of like
hold it all in and then you get to work
and you let it out. And sometimes one day it
can be a relief you get to have a coffee
by yourself that's hot and it's quiet. And then other
times like you miss them like mad because you you
can send a photo from childcare going look what they're
doing today, You're like far out. I just missed out
(08:02):
on that. But the mental lobe was really big for
me because well, what was happening right is I was
like juggling all these daycare drop offs, remembering her needs,
what the shoes, the planning the dinner, while also replying
to emails and being really present. No one really sees
that part coming. It's like always running in the background
all day, every day. And I think that's one of
the biggest things you could do to empathize with someone
(08:23):
who is returning, is knowing that they're thinking of a
million things and probably not themselves. So for me, it
wasn't it. I still is a bit is that constant
juggle and it never ever fully switches off.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, it's funny. I feel like I bring up my
mum in every single episode we do. But I feel
like I only really empathize with my mom when I
started working full time and I could see a lot
of my colleagues who were first time mothers like having
to juggle kids plus work because my mom started her
career in her early thirties after she had me. So
(08:57):
she had me, went on leave, and then just started
a completely new job in a completely new company straight
after having me. And I remember, like so specifically the
guilt she felt every time she left because I was
an insane kid, Like I remember like because my grandparents
used to look after me because both of my parents worked,
(09:18):
and I remember like her trying to sneak out and
I just like fling open the door and run after
her and like try to get myself into the car
and be screaming and crying and like knocking on like
my dad's like car window, like crying, don't leave me.
And like they probably they went through that like every
single day they left, probably traumatized with the rest.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Of their worked out.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
One of them would have burst into tears, into tears,
and then I just go back inside with my papa
and just watch TV any breakfast, like nothing ever happened.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Anyway, they've gone now and they're like completely traumatized. To
the rest that I am. That happens too, So it's
like this whole emotional whirlwind of returning. And I think
one of the things we don't talk about enough is
that you can always a bit of confidence while you're
in printer leave, especially if you're not in touch with
work over that time, because twelve months is a long time.
If you have the luxury of taking twelve some people
(10:06):
don't take that. Let's say you've taken twelve months, you
lose the confidence. Like I remember at some point almost
feeling like people were doing me a favor giving me
a job part time, And that's not true, right, I
had a lot of value to bring. I was valued
before I went on parantal leave, why would I not
be valued on my return? And when that confidence hits
(10:28):
I was promised promotions before I went on parantal leave,
or promised salary increases when I returned. How do you
think I went with that? Like when I was coming
back and I hadn't been doing it for a year,
I wasn't really negotiating, was I No. I didn't feel
like I had enough to go off, but I should
have and something. This is like super nitty gritty advice here,
(10:49):
but I give it to a lot of friends who
go back. Now they go, oh, you know, they're doing
me a favor because they're making the role part time.
And they did promise me a salary increase, you know,
I as part of the review and everything before I left.
But I guess they just don't have budget. Now I'm like,
I'm sorry. When you go on parental leave, they need
to budget for your return at full time. That's what
(11:10):
every business needs to do. Every CFO or financial person
listening to this is hating me right now because I'm
peeking back the curtains we're talking to you. So I'm
not good at spontaneous mass, but let's roll with it.
If you're on one hundred k full time salary and
you're coming in part time, you want to do three
days a week, they still have one hundred k budgeted,
not sixty k, right, So if you were meant to
(11:30):
get that five K increase, it's there, it's available to you,
So ask for it and back yourself. And I think
just remember the credibility and the value brought to the
business and how you can bring that now again in
different ways, and ask for the salary that reflects them.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
So when someone comes back and you've equipped them with
this knowledge, like say there's one hundred k and they're
coming back part time, and they're probably like I feel like,
there'll also be that imposter syndrome of like what if
my parental leave cover is like better at me and
my job and they want to keep that person, Like,
what is actually their right to say in those meetings
when they come back to work.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well, it depends on if someone has replaced you, and
someone's taken a parent to leave cover while you're there,
and of course you'll be going, oh my gosh, they're
better than me at this job and may even go
to have a job when I come back, or equally,
if you're coming back and they hadn't replaced you, like
they just absorbed the work, etc. A lot of people
lose the confidence because they go, do they even need
(12:27):
me anymore? Yeah, and that's really hard to work through.
But I think at least if you ask the question,
you know where you're adding value as well on how
you can contribute to the business. And remind yourself of
this as well, Like remind yourself of a few wins
that you had before you left, because I guarantee and
I see this in every single person who goes on
preen to leave, they work their butts off before they leave. Yeah,
and they achieved so many things. Remind yourself of those
(12:50):
moments and take that into the conversation. Okay, let's talk visibility,
because we touched on this just before. But I think
this is one of the biggest fears people have, especially
if you're returning part time all working flexibly in some way.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, do you ever feel and I'm sure so many
people have felt this, and I've heard this from friends
as well, you feel like you're kind of fading into
the background and you're kind of out of mind, not
only because you feel like you're coming back into this
role after being away for so long, but because your
priority shift, Like you might have a different time than
anyone else because you have to do kid drop off,
might have to leave earlier because you have to pick
(13:28):
up your kids, or you might just have to be
off because of like six days. Like, there's so many
things that I feel like parents, especially parents of young kids,
go through where they're just like not being seen by
anyone in the office workspace. And I think we still
associate and we talk about this with working from home
as well. We still have that like older generation mindset
(13:49):
where so if I'm not seeing you, then you can't
be doing any work.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Physical presence, Yeah, I think visibility isn't about showing up
to everything though, It's about showing up to the right
things and things that matter. We touched on this before.
You feel like you're not needed anymore or is my
role even needed anymore? But once you land on what's
needed and being visible in the right ways, then that
can actually change your perspective around it.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Right, So how does that actually look?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So one of the things that I recommend to so
many people, and it's something that I think I did right.
There are things I did wrong, which I've just shared
with you how to change that. But one of the
things I did do right was have this really honest
conversation up front about what does returning look like? Where
was I adding value beforehand? How can I add value now,
where is the business at etc. And kind of mapping
(14:34):
that out together and going through it. What will so
often happen to people is that they'll come together with
this role and go here and we'd love you to
do this, and you're like, that's great, but I'm returning
three days, so like, is this possible in three days?
Have that conversation up front, because if you don't have that,
then you're setting yourself up to fail. You're trying to
achieve all these things. That's actually a full time role,
(14:57):
not a part time role. And when you go through
that kind of process and pair it back with them,
then you can highlight things that are going to keep
you most visible and most valuable to the business as well.
I mean I remember going through this so the second
time when I was coming back and we went into
discussing the role, it was a leadership role too, and
it was part time. What are the things that you
(15:17):
want me to do, like what's most important, what's going
to move the dial? That I can do in two
and a half three days? And this business is quite progressive.
And they said, do you know what we actually don't
when you're doing this admin and this thing and that thing,
especially at the salary we're paying you at for a
leadership role, like we can get someone to do this
at an admin level, etc. So we really paired the
role back into something was doable and something was valuable.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But if we hadn't had that conversation up front and
I just walked into the same job as last time,
the same responsibilities, but I was part time, I was
going to melt and they were going to melt about
it too.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
That's so interesting And I do think that that also
can be applied to literally anyone, Like not even if
you're coming back from parental leave or you're moving from
a full time role to a part time role, but
even if you are like say you get a promotion
or you get a new job, and you get that
new JD and you read that JD. And what I
like to do in my previous roles was that I'd
(16:14):
like to make a calendar for myself. Oh I love
that and like insert And I'm a numbers first person,
So I put like every single thing in my JD
in a calendar Monday to Friday, what times I would
do them, and the time it would take me to
do it, time blocking, and I'd share that with my
manager and be like just letting you know, this is
what it looks like. And there's sometimes I was like
occasionally where there it be like a whole chunk that
would just fall on a weekend or.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Fall like out of hours.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And I think when you visually see that, even you
as a person seeing your own workload, it might look
so much smaller on just a piece of paper and
writing compared to when you actually schedule it out.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That is awesome advice, but you.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Literally realized like probably also be a surprise to your
managers where we're like, oh sorry, we'll get someone else
to do that. Oh sorry do this instead.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, right, Like you can see these bullet points on
a page, it's like, what does that even mean? And
what does good look like in that? To you? Does
that mean I'm delivering this three times a week? And
how does that work? Et cetera.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Especially going from full time to part time, because I
think the easiest thing to do is just do your
full time role in a part time schedule and that
never will ever work out.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No, And it's not great for you because you resented.
And also then the business is like what you said,
there was nothing wrong with it and it's fine. So
kind of setting yourself up to fail. So be really
confident in having that discussion. And I know it can
be hard and you feel like you're being pushy and
all the guilt and the other emotions that come with
it as well, But if you don't have that conversation
(17:33):
up front, then everything else is harder after that. So
other practical things you can do. One of the things
I think worked really well for me when I was
working in a part time role was I like to
visualize things too. I am a big lover of Monday
dot com.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
We as Monday here. It's a really great scheduling application.
Can you a desktop on phone?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
What I found with Monday, because the business side works
out all operated on Monday is the days I wasn't there,
they could see everything around like what was going on,
what was in progress, etc. And they're like, how are
you achieved all these things and how are you moving
them forward? So that was a way of me keeping
things visible and accountable and them aware of what the
workload was and how it could be managed. Because especially
(18:14):
with that, I could then go here are all the
things which is most important for this week. They're like,
oh okay, and they like kind of had to visually
pick and chew. So I like, you know, building on
your example of like visualizing through calendar. Visualizing through Monday
was a big one for me, and they're just like
recapping it on a Friday. It's like here all things
that are out this week and what we're setting up
for for next week, which I think is actually just
(18:36):
a good rhythm to get into in any team you're in,
regardless of peranal life.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
That's such good advice. My favorite type of coworker is
someone who is so particular about meetings, like they know
exactly and I'm talking about myself here. They know exactly
which meetings are important, which meetings could just be an email,
which meetings don't need to exist at all, and they're
super alert in that space where especially I think with
(19:02):
reoccurring meetings, a lot of people can form the trap
where you might just have a reoccurring meeting that happens
every week, and you get to a point where you're like,
why do you even have this meeting exactly?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
And what we're saying here is that it needs to
be really intentional with your time, not just be present
and floating around and feel like you have to go
to these things, you have to go to the lunch,
et cetera. Something that I got a whole business into
was if a meeting was set, it had to have
a PAYO. Now, a payohy oh, yes, a PAYO stands
for I learned this from Amantha INMBO, who's like the
(19:34):
guru of productivity, which is amazing. It stands for purpose, agenda,
and outcome. And if you can't tell me those three things,
then we're not having a meeting. So the meetings didn't
happen unless it was a payo. And if you went
through the pay and went actually, we could probably just
like do this async, like do it on Slack or
you know, send each other over to my desk or
(19:55):
my desk, like we don't have to sit here and
then fill the alloted sixty minutes. Yeah, then meetings wouldn't happen.
So what I guess we're suggesting here is be visible,
but be intentional about it company.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So I want to talk about the next chapter. After
you get back to work, you're back in your career
growth mindset. What does that actually look like now that
you've just had kids.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, this is where a lot of people get stuck.
So I'm really glad we're touching on it. You know,
we're not given a roadmap for how to grow a
career while working flexibly or part time. We don't have
a lot of good examples to refer to. But I
think the more that we share as parents, the more
that we can start to help each other and help ourselves.
And the system kind of assumes that you'll just make
it work. Most of the time you're juggling with whatever
(20:42):
support you can piece together. And it does feel like
that for the first six months, like you're trying to
piece together this new way of life and way of
working to.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, and it's like literally what I said before, like
in my head, it's very much like, Okay, so when
you're working, you're at work, and when you're at home,
you're at home and doing home stuff with your kids.
And I know that's just super ignorant because it's like,
obviously you're still thinking about your kids when you're at work,
and vice versa, Like, yeah, I know so many people
who have kids who just just never shut off and
(21:11):
they're answering slacks or emails at like nighttime, and I'm like,
I know this is bar time. I know's a bar.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Time, And that can go really well either way. Like
sometimes I would get into that zoneo feeling guilty because
I'd left at four o'clock to go to pick up,
and so I would log back on and I would
work and there was a running joke that I would
be the last one on slack. And then other times
it worked really well because I'd hold that boundary and
I'd be like, I'm not available between four and seven
because it's dinner, bath, bed, and if there's something I
(21:38):
need to pick up, I will pick it up between
seven and eight. Yeah, and we'll go from there. But
the boundary thing is big, yeah, for yourself as much
as with other people.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
My friend coworker stays she always does this thing because
she lives so far away from work, like an hour
long train ride, and she has a kid, and she
always does this thing where she will leave at four thirty,
and she says the same thing every single day, where
she's like, I'm leaving now, I'll be back online on
the train. I'll be back online when I get home.
Every single day she does that, Yeah, every single day,
(22:08):
we're like stop it, go leave. Yeah, and even I
don't even have kids, and I feel like I do it.
I think it's something that's so innately true for women,
mostly where you always have to show that you're always
working and you're always working to one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, I have been stacy. I think something that changed
for me in that, because I was definitely guilty of
that for a while, was starting to think about outcomes
over hours, What are the outcomes I've driven today? And
so I started doing this thing where I was like,
I might be working this many hours, and I can
guarantee you a working parent like they use every minute
(22:42):
of the day very effectively. So yes, they might have
only been online from ten to four, but they've probably
done something that anyone could have done from eight tel six.
So one of the things I started doing was going,
today is a good day if I have done X,
Y and Z, and if I've done those things, And
it was four o'clock, I'm like, I'm leaving loudly. I'm like,
I'm done for the day. I've done all the things
(23:03):
I need to do. I'm out of here. See you
guys tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, especially if you're in a manager position, because and
I know this is so true for so many young
women in particular who want to grow their career and
want to prove themselves and show up. If your manager
says that I don't expect you to answer emails after hours,
I don't expect you to slack after hours. But if
they're doing it, obviously you're going to do it as well.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Again, guilty of this because I work weird hours because
I want to be at the basketball game or I
want to be doing this thing, so I will do
something at nine o'clock at night. And that's my choice. Yeah,
And sometimes it is your choice, and that's great, and
that's what works for you, and that's okay too. You've
just got to be work out if you're happy with
the boundaries that you've said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
And just have an honest conversation with your team. I
was like, exactly why you're doing that?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So they're like, okay, so I don't have to reply
to you at ten pm.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
No. No, And I don't expect you to reply or
maybe schedule sands. I think the other thing we should
touch on as well is that career growth doesn't have
to look the same as it did after you had kids.
A lot of people get hooked on this idea of like, ill,
I just can't get promoted if I'm part time, or
I can't go for that role if I'm part time
as well. And I think that's a mindset we really
have to shift. How do you shift that? Something that
(24:16):
happened to me was redundancy. Yeah, so that was a
big shift. I mean that was my hand was forced there, right,
So I was on parental leave with my second child,
and yeah, I got made redundant. But I guess that
forced my hand as well while I was in leave
to go what do I actually want to do next?
And I do want to grow my career, like I
(24:38):
am really driven, etc. But what does it look like
and what kind of work is it? I mean we
have touched on this before. I'm a little bit type
A and not everyone does this, but I was using
nap time later on to like go and upskill and
do like little things or read articles and stuff like
that and through my network, because keep your network alive.
Please while you're on parental leave, don't completely switch off.
(25:00):
I got my absolute dream job that was in a
leadership role and it was part time. Oh my god. Wow,
I'm not the only case. Like my best friend was
in a job share role in a leadership role for
a long time and it worked amazingly. Two mums coming
together with great experience, the business got two brains for
the price of one.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So these things can happen as long as you're having
the conversation around it and you're thinking about it and
going what do I want here and what can I do?
As well? You don't have to prove you're the same.
You've changed in that perspective is really valuable. You have
to remember how you bring value and what you want
to bring value to. Growth can still happen, but it
might look different. So think stretch not ladder, and think
(25:41):
pivot or think sideways moves. I grew, but I put
the work in to go what do I want and
what does that role look like? And who in my
network can I talk to about that? Play the long game,
like your timeline is your own, so don't let comparison
rush your path. You only get this one time with
your child being one year old or eighteen months old,
two years old, whatever that time is. Whereas work, and
(26:03):
this is coming from an ambitious person, you can drop in,
change move at any point in time and you can
build those skills to do that, and you're never going
to get that time back with your child. So make
sure that you're not thinking that there's a timeline in
your career and you have to achieve X, y Y.
You can build that at any moment. That's such a
good advice. One useful thing, have a clarity combo before
(26:26):
your return.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So it's my favorite time of the episode out about
one useful thing, and my useful thing is actually going
to be another question for you. So I want to
know that if you're in this moment right now, like
you're returning to work, you're trying to figure out how
this new self of you is going to work with
your old job. What's worth holding onto.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
So if you're heading back to work or still finding
your rhythm months in, you don't have to choose between
being a parent and being ambitious.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You can be both, So start small this week, have
one honest conversation with your manager, try one visibility strategy,
or just give yourself permission to read. Find what success
actually looks like Now.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Those juggling skills you're mastering, they're actually making you better
at work, not worse. You're not falling behind. You're just
playing a different game now.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And if you're not in this era of your life,
share this with the working parent who just needs the
reminder because we're all figuring it out as we go.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
That's BIZ for this week. Follow us on Instagram at
bizby Mama Mia for more and also thanks to Sophie
Campbell and Leopord just for making this happen.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Back yourself, trust your timeline and we will see you
next week.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on
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