A Joke That Went 'Too Far' & The Internet’s Biggest Cheating Scandal

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
Mamma Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking
about on Monday, the twenty second of September. I'm Holly
Wainwright and I am back from a sick bed where
I have been laid up with the flu for a
little while, dying to be back talking to you.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm Jesse Stevens. I'm very excited that Holly is back
and Maya has officially gone on holiday.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
She has, she's actually left the country.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
She did tell me she downloaded the entire three seasons
of the summer return pretty to watch on the plane,
so prepare for that when.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
She returns, it will fly.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
I should probably introduced myself. Hello, I'm Claire Murphy. You
can usually hear me on Mamma MIA's twice daily news podcast,
The Quickie and on Well for all your women's health
information and funny and gross stuff that our bodies do.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Funny and gross stuff. My body's been doing some very
funny and gross Murphy. We'll talk offline about that later. Sure, anyway,
here's what's made our agenda for today.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
Jimmy Kimmel's late night show was pulled off the air
last week. There's been a lot of conversation around it, politically, morally, constitutionally,
but what does that all mean?

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Does it matter? And should we be freaking out?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
I don't want to alarm you out louders, but we
know that you always have a little cry on your
birthday and we know why you do.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
And the wife guy is back, but this time without
his wife. I'm going to explain one of the most
ambitious comebacks in all of Internet history. But first, Jesse,
in case you missed it. This morning Australian Time, a
memorial service was held for conservative activist Charlie Kirk at
a stadium in Phoenix, Arizona, and estimated two hundred thousand

(01:58):
people gathered in and around the stadium and all the
speakers were shielded by bullet proof glass on the stage,
which is something we haven't seen before. Attendees were also
encouraged to wear red, white or blue to the service.
Speakers included Robert F. Kennedy, Charlie Kirk's wife Erica Kirk,

(02:19):
Donald Trump Junior, who was very close to Kirk, and
of course President Donald Trump, who spoke last Erica Kirk
declared that she had forgiven the man who allegedly killed
her husband, and her address had this real focus on love,
which was in stark contrast to Donald Trump's speech which followed.
The President said I hate my opponents, and I don't

(02:43):
want what's best for them. He referred to networks of
radical left maniacs who were to blame for Kirk's murder.
He also repeated the words fight, fight, fight, which you
might remember from after his attempted assassination last year. He
also referred to Kirk as a martyr, a patriot. He
is awarding Kirk posthumously with the Presidential Medal of Freedom,

(03:06):
which is a higher civilian honor. Many speaker's cited this
battle between good and evil and said that there was
this struggle going on. Donald Trump Junior asked the crowd,
will you surrender? Will you back down? Will you give up?
In fear? And look? The headline is that Kirk was
used as a symbol for all that is great about America.

(03:28):
I think even with the colors that people were encouraged
to wear, it was about patriotism and this you know,
almost a suggestion of some sort of civil war that's
going on in the US at the moment.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
It's interesting, though, because, as you've said, that's not what
Erica Kirk was talking about. And the parts of it
that I've watched this morning, and obviously we're recording, you know,
at eleven thirty it's sort of just finished. It was
like a show, and there was a very distinct difference
between Erica Kirk, who was very clearly incredibly emotional, incredibly devastated,

(04:03):
incredibly gracious. You have to say in saying what she said.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
About her it was incredibly improving. And she said the
answer to heat is not heat. The answer we know
from the Gospel is love and always love.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
And then, as you've said, Jesse, there's that beautiful, gracious
message that I wonder if people can actually hear. And
then you had like Donald Trump Junior treating it like
a stand up show. He was throwing out some jokes.
He made some Kamala jokes, some Hillary jokes, you know,
all the old hits from the MAGA, right, Trump preaching
how much he hates everybody. It just seemed like such

(04:39):
a stark contrast, Like I think so much of this
conversation is between the very human loss of a person
and then this huge existential war that seems to have
been very much fanned by this assassination.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Which isn't about Kirk at all, really, you know. And
there's a lot to be said for the left and
the way that they've discussed, the rhetoric that they've used,
the vitriol that's come in the aftermath. But it reminded
me that while the left has dehumanized Kirk so as
a right like, they've used Kirk as a symbol, and
they very much did. And when Trump got up, he

(05:17):
was at a rally. He was at a rally, and
he talked about twenty twenty and how that election was
stolen from him and Joe Biden.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
He made some kind of policy announcement too, in the
middle of all of that, apparently.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Exactly some medical announcement. And there are reports that people left,
which I found really interesting when he started to speak,
because it did feel really disrespectful.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
You know.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
What's really crazy about looking at this memorial today is
that until September ten, I had never even heard of
Charlie Kirk. I have no idea who he was, except
in real vague passing. I'd seen videos on my social
media feed of him doing those debates with people, but
it was most often positioned from the person who was

(05:56):
debating him, rather than him.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
And his debate.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
But now, not only do I know who Charlie Kirk is,
I watched that man die almost in real time, which
was horrific to witness. And they're not long after that,
I was given conflicting stories as to who his alleged
shooter was, his political allegiances, who he's chose to spend
his time with. This whole situation from the very get go,

(06:24):
felt very dirty and awful, and we all have participated
in it, whether it's from watching the videos, whether it's
making a comment about Charlie Kirk or his rhetoric, whether
it's about celebrating his death, which some have done, whether
it's those right wing factions who've now collectively got together
to bring down anyone who even mentions Charlie Kirk's name,

(06:45):
to the politicians who are speaking at these particular events
trying to muster up that same kind of energy that
we heard for January six, it all feels very performative.
It all feels like everyone is in it. For themselves,
and it feels like this is where we absolutely expected
to be at this point in time. I'm really not

(07:07):
shocked by any of it.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, it's very horgh to be shocked by anything now.
To be honest, I'd suggest that Erica Kirk doesn't seem
like she's in it for herself. I mean, she did
say in her speech about Charlie, she said that she's
going to take on his work and she's going to
become the CEO of Turning Point USA and absolutely going
to keep moving with that, which is deeply understandable given
the kind of person Charlie Kirk was and the mission

(07:30):
that she says their family shared. But it's just that
juxtaposition between a very human grief and then this intense politicization. Anyway,
what we're going to talk about next is kind of adjacent, right, Murphy.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah, because obviously the fallout, as I mentioned, there's been
a lot of collective movements coming together to stop any
conversation about Charlie Kirk's murder from anyone who's considered vaguely
left of center. So obviously one of those big fallouts
is Jimmy Kimmel. So if you have not heard late
night talk show host Jimmy Kimmel is currently off the air.

(08:04):
He's been indefinitely suspended by the ABC after making this
comment about the Charlie Kirk assassination.

Speaker 5 (08:10):
Some new lows over the weekend with the Magga Gang
desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk
as anything other than one of them and do everything
they can to score political points from it. In between
the finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White
House flew the flags at half staff, which got some criticism,
but on a human level, you can see how hard

(08:32):
the President is taking this.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
My indulgos on the lock of your friend Charlie Kirk
asked sir personally, how are you holding up over the
last day and a half served, I.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
Think very good.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
And by the way, right there you see all the trucks.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
They've just started construction of the new baurel to the
White House, which is something they've been trying to get,
as you know, for about one hundred and fifty years, and.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
It's going to be a beauty.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief construction. There's demolition.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Construction.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
This is not how an adult grieves the murderer of
somebody called a friend. This is how a year old
lord's a goldfish.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Okay, Murphy, can I just jump in and ask you
about Kimmel, Because if you're not massively conversant in American
late night culture, we know that there are these big
shows that have dominated, or they certainly used to dominate
American political discourse in the late nights. But I always
get my Jimmy's mixed. Yeah. So there's Jimmy Fallon, yes,
who was much as a little bit more like he

(09:32):
always seems a bit more mischievous. He used to be
on Saturday Night Live. Kimmel is the one who's hosted
the Oscars a couple of times, right, right, and Trump
has always kind of hated him. I remembered alive on
stage at the Oscars, Trump was tweeting about him, and
he was reading out the quotes, right, And kim OL's
been a big force there for a long time too.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
Also, after it was announced that Stephen Colbert, who's another
one of these late night hosts, that his show was
being canceled in twenty twenty six, Trump put out on
his social media that Kimmel would be next, which and
indeed indeed he is so. After those comments were made
on Kimmel's show, conservative commentators came down really hard. One
had said that he's painted all of the Mega movement

(10:10):
with the same brush, essentially calling all of them collectively murderers.
Elon Musk then weighed in he was at the memorial today.
Elon Musk was called Kimmel disgusting. X then was lit
up with conservative voices, and that echo chamber spread out
far and wide across the Internet. The ABC then received
pressure from the Federal Communications Commission, which is a government

(10:31):
department that oversees media in the US. The chairman warned
the ABC that they would pull their broadcast license and
calling Kimmel's comments truly sick. Now, there are also major
broadcast companies that take Jimmy Kimmel Show and broadcast it
to stations across America, so they came together and said
that they would pull Kimmel show. Advertisers were being targeted.

(10:55):
Some employees were also receiving threatening messages. So they bowed
to the pressure and ABC stood Kimmel down.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
There is, of.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
Course a lot which we do not have time to
fully deconstruct here today, going on up and down that chain.
So these big companies like the A, they need government
approval for acquisitions because they've got many fingers in many
pies and they won't get that if they, for example,
from himating with them, if Trump is angry with them
over Jimmy Kimmel.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
It's also worth pointing out that when we say the ABC,
we don't mean the Australian Broadcasting Corporations. Yes, even though
the Australian ABC says they've been getting a lot of.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
Complaints today they have hundreds and hundreds which they put
up on their social media just yesterday, and they also
put an email address for who to actually complain to
if they were.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Like business not us, guys, Yes, it's not us. We
did not do anything. Has he been fired forever Murphy?
Or has he been Has anyone given an indication of
how long Kimmel is sitting on the bench for and
he hasn't spoken about it, has he He has not?

Speaker 4 (11:53):
So sitting with his lawyer, yes, so he is currently
in talks with his lawyers. The reports are is that
he is very concerned about his staff because apparently reportedly
he said that he's very worried about them. They're still
financially recovering from the writer's strike that happened a year
or two ago.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
So he's in talks.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
But obviously there is one of those broadcast companies that
I talked about pulling Kimmel show. They have asked for
him to apologize formally, to also pay Charlie Kirk's family
money and pay Kirk's foundation money as well his nonprofit.
So they said that will pave the path for his
return to the airwaves. But of course, the conversation here

(12:31):
is now, how do the late night show hosts respond
to this, because they under threat of also being kicked
off the air if they make jokes about this situation.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Well, and also the conversation seems to have gone to Jesse.
This is the beginning of the end of free speech, right,
because when did this happened? On Thursday? My feeds were
suddenly flooded by lots of well known American leftist comedians.
When I say leftist, I just mean, you know, like,
to be honest, until very recently, almost everybody in Hollywood
was an outspoken leftist. Yeah, and so lots of people

(13:04):
saying it's happening, we said authoritarianism was coming. This is
the first real sign of that, is that where this
conversation is now is it about the death of free speech,
which is, let's be clear something that the right side
of politics, as in the megaside of politics, free speech
was the thing that supposedly radicalized and evangelized the Elon
Musks of the world, the Joe Rogans of the world,

(13:26):
the Mark Zuckerberg's of the world, Charlie Kirk himself as
a free speech advocate, of course, and they're like, but
they're saying that it was the left that we're trying
to silence debate and that's what pushed them to the
Trump side. Is this the first step and in authoritarianism?

Speaker 3 (13:41):
To be clear, Trump campaigned on free speech. He talked
in his inaugural address earlier this year. He said, after
years and years of illegal and unconstitutional federal efforts to
restrict free expression, I will sign an executive order to
immediately stop all government censorship and bring back free speech

(14:01):
to America. There his words months ago. And so I
think everyone is going, hang on, this is absolute hypocrisy.
It is a double standard. There are fractures within the
party that are going this is what we fought for.
As you say, Holly, it is something that has been
pinned on the left in terms of cancel culture and

(14:23):
wokism and you know, political correctness gone mad. But the
thing about that, and I would argue we've talked about
cancel culture on this show. There are definitely instances where
there's been overreach, but that's often self censorship, a board
maybe trying to be really really careful and not offend people.
The difference here is that it's hard power, not soft power.

(14:45):
That's why I think it feels so scary.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
When I spoke to John barn about this and the Quickie,
he said, the big difference is these directives are coming
from the president down, which has not been the case.
It's normally like a public opinion or it's a business
level decision, but this is very much coming from the
White House itself.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Often it's within the interests of like, for example, they
don't want to lose advertisers. This happens in Australia. Someone
says something offensive, they don't want to lose advertisers. Yeah,
that's a soft power that can be troubling. But this
is a directive coming from within the White House. And
that's why it feels like communist China, Like it feels
as though you're living under a government who gets to

(15:22):
decide what you can and cannot say. And the profound
paradox in all of this is, of course they're going,
even at the memorial, look at this bastion of free speech.
You will look his opponents in the eye and speak
to them. And now you're going, you can't disagree with
what Kirk said, the man who got killed for saying

(15:46):
things that like, that's where it leads. Suppression of free
speech leads to something like a bullet because you say,
I do not want that person to speak anymore. I
do not think that person deserves a platform. It is
where you go in terms of an authoritarian regime. This
has played out throughout history, and I think that's why
people My first reaction upon seeing this story was, this
is really scary shit.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
It is scary shit. I think it comes from a
place because, as has been widely reported, what Jimmy Kimmel
said there was not that shocking, right, And also on
the day of Charlie Kirk's assassination, Jimmy Kimmel, like most
mainstream democratic figures, said exactly what they should have said,
which is, my heart goes out to his family. This

(16:28):
is inexcusable, Like he did all of those things right.
What this is actually about is that President Trump hates
to be mocked. Let's face it, most of us do, right.
But from all the way back before he was seriously
standing for politics, the Jimmy Kimmels of the world, in
Trump's view, people that he would broadly call the Hollywood elite,

(16:49):
the leftist Hollywood elite, have taunted him, not taken him seriously,
taken the piss out of him. It goes all the
way back to President Obama at the White House correspondence
dinner in twenty eleven, who stood up and roasted him,
and he was in the room at the time. Trump
he was a guest of Newsweek and Seth Meyers stood
up and said, Donald Trump says he's going to run
for a president as a Republican, which is surprising, sce

(17:09):
I just assumed he was running as a joke, and
everybody just took the piss.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Out of him.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
And many Trump insiders say that was the moment when
Trump went, I'm coming for you lot, and look what's happened.
He did and he won. And he didn't need any
of these guys who have been, let's be honest, trashing
him for decade. He didn't need any of them to
get him to power. He doesn't really need their approval,
but he hates their derision and he's been waiting for this.

(17:34):
As Murphy said, Colbert is going off air. He said
that Jimmy Kimmel was next. Now he says that Falon's next,
Seth Myers is next. All these guys are going to go.
It's interesting because their power is reduced in lots of
ways since nobody watches network TV anymore. But they will
all go, and as they lose their jobs from their networks,
they will all go to YouTube, to podcast, to all

(17:57):
the different tech platforms, and they will speak there and
whether or not they really have clout anymore. I think
it's that classic thing in a way that what may
lead to this authoritarianism is like a man's bruised ego.
You know.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
There's also some reports going around that people like Colbert
and a bunch of others in the background are starting
a rogue news network, which will, I'm guessing be Internet
based in some way, shape or.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Form, which is what lots of the right guys have done.
It's what Toker Carlson's done, and not you know, like
this is where all these people are talking now.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
So it looks like it might create a whole new
network of sort of left wing ideology there. But just
before we stop talking about this, like, do we need
to check ourselves and just look at this from the
other perspective for a minute.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
I've been thinking about this because I don't think that
free speech is unlimited. It never has been. I think
that there are things that Jimmy Kimmel could have got
up and said that are so offensive that actually maybe
would have warranted a little bit of censorship. So if
he had come up and incited violence, excused violence, said
I'm glad he died, he had it coming, who's next? Yep. Absolutely,

(19:06):
I think that there would be a really important national
conversation because there is a standard of speech that exists.
But he didn't say any of those things. And my
first response to this story was, oh, well, I'm going
to look really closely at what Jimmy Kimmel said, because
some left wing commentators have feared into that and if
that were on the other side, we would be just
as horrified. But to me, it's the banality of what

(19:29):
he said. His crime was being imprecise, Like what he
said was actually factually wrong. It was early days. He
didn't know it was wrong yet, and so that's something
that you know. Inaccuracy, you can definitely charge him with that,
But inaccuracy doesn't get anyone else pulled off the air.
And then some people said, well, the ratings were shit,
so they were just looking for an excuse. That's okay,

(19:50):
but you don't pull people off immediately for bad ratings.
You wind them up.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
You're right, Murphy in lots of ways. And I think
that one of the things about this is is that
when I looked at all the responses from the other
late night guys, and they were all very clever, Because
these are very clever people, and they've got huge staffs
of writing people who were also very clever people, and
they are exactly, as I said before, the kind of
people that Trump would dismiss as Hollywood at least, and
they're thinking of the cleverest, funniest ways to go viral

(20:17):
by mocking the president. I would suggest that one of
the things we learned last year is that you can
have every famous, powerful Hollywood person on your side, from
Taylor Swift to Bad Bunny to every single Hollywood starter
George Clooney, and you're still not going to win the
election because nobody likes being mocked and dismissed and taking

(20:38):
the piss out of And that goes for Donald Trump,
but it also goes for Donald Trump's supporters.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah it does. But I would say that parody and
comedy and sending things up. In the world of comedy,
the rules are that kind of nothing is untouchable, and
so of course these shows were going to touch it
in the same way. Whether you were right or left,
you were going to touch it.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
South Park they didn't have an episode go live last week,
and they put it down to they left it too
late and didn't get it finished.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Thirty years and they always managed to get it finished.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
That was a smart move on their part because obviously
they've been all over the headlines lately. For I was
just saying how Donald Trump doesn't like to be mocked.
They have been mocking him on an extreme scandal more
than anyone from the micro penis down exactly, So those
guys would have to be worried and I think if
they made a call to not go to air the
week of Charlie Kirk's murder because they knew what they

(21:30):
had was inflammatory, I would say that was probably a
smart choice. I think that's exactly what happened, not to
defend censorship in any way in a moment. Do you
cry on your birthday? So do we and now we
know why. Jesse Claire, do you cry on your birthdays? Yes, Okay,

(21:51):
I need to know more details about both these things.
At what point on your birthday do you normally cry?
Jesse Stevens normally more than once.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
But I've identified yeah, and I've identified the moment where
I cry, and it's when I am doing something mundane.
So i find myself mopping the floor, scraping a dish,
putting the dishwasher, and I think it's my fucking birthday?
Why am I doing this task? And I also get
that feeling on Christmas.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
So basically, a birthday should be a day off from
boring activities.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
It should free path only be extraordinary.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Murphy, do you like Do you like birthdays or not
like birthdays?

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (22:29):
I love my birthday. I also share my birthday with
the spookiest.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Holiday of the year. Oh so Halloween, I.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
Get to go trick or treating with my child, which
has not always been my favorite thing to do, but
now I've kind of come around to it. But I
do not cry on my birthday. I've made it very
clear to my family that I will not be doing
any mundane work on that day and that is purely
up to them to do all of that shit and
also weight on me hand and foot. My husband has
been well trained to provide cups of teas in bed

(22:58):
if it is a weekend. He's been very well trained
to cook me dinner or take me somewhere. This has
been well established in my household. Plus I am the
youngest child in my family by a long way. There's
a big gap between my brother and sister and I.
So I have been spoy yelled.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Like okay, So Murphy is the queen of the birthday boundaries.
That's why I discovered now, so you, Holly, I have
been known to cry on my birthday. But the reason
I'm asking you this is because we ran a piece
on Mamma Mia this week which a lot of women
have related to, right, which was about why women cry
on their birthday because apparently it's very common, very common,
and there are a number of reasons. But back day

(23:35):
in this piece, she wrote, for example, there was somebody
who she spoke to who said, the biggest fight she's
ever had with her partner was over his failure to
post a public display of birthday love on Instagram, even
though the last time he'd posted was in twenty sixty,
So very reasonable things here. Some people said, maybe it's
just an echo of the day that you first entered

(23:55):
the world, scrunched faced and crying and trying to figure
out all this shit.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
It does feel overwhelming in the same way being born.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Mike, yes, exactly, and counselor Julie Sweet said, the reason
that a lot of women cry is because disappointment and
conflicting emotions often present when the pressure to appear happy
doesn't match in a feeling. So, no matter what's going
on in your life, maybe your relationships falling apart, maybe
you're sick, maybe your kid's being a shit, maybe your
boss is being a shit, whatever's happening on your birthday,

(24:24):
it's still happening, but you have to kind of pretend
that it isn't and that can be overwhelming. So she
said Julie Sweet that this creates a double whammy of
overwhelm and internalized blame, and we end up wondering why
we're not happier, all the while berating ourselves for not
feeling grateful enough.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I know what that's like. Yeah, and I wonder too
if it's my expectations are unsaid because they are unacknowledged
within myself, Like I couldn't if I tried to journal
what I wanted my birthday to look like. I don't
necessarily have a vision or the words, but some part
of me clearly has a standard for the day that

(25:04):
is never realized.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Well, it's complicate, more complicated for you because you share
your birthday, you twin. Yeah, right, so through your life,
was it important for your family to like make a
fuss of Jesse, make a fuss of Claire. And we
also have the added thing you and I have been
Christmas babies. Yep, so one of the good you'll got ripped.
Oh you do. One of the things that I often
used to up not anymore, but I used to struggle

(25:27):
with on my birthday when I was younger, is I
was like nobody cares because everybody's focused on Christmas and
I'm only going to get joint presents and nobody wants
to celebrate d And there would be that kind of
sulky la laugh thing about.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
It, which is all true. But I think that whether
we want to admit it or not, we do build
it up. As like even when we look at a
calendar year, right, if you were going to put the
first things in, you'd go, well, that's Christmas and that's
my birthday. Like it is, it exists in my head
all year round. The trick I have started to adopt
is I must have a plan. And I resisted that

(26:00):
for a while because I thought that plans inevitably bring
with them expectations and I don't want to be disappointed.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
And was there an expectation that someone else make those
plans because it's your birth Maybe maybe I expect to
wake up and just be take him through a day
of joy, And that's never happened. Like my mom was
always just pissed off because it was nearly Christmas. Like,
so your mom popped out like twins after twins, like
she had a lot on her plate.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah, like she did not care And no, she didn't
care about making it special for each of us, she
was tired. So I now, A'm like, it's the existing
in those moments of in between that I really really
don't like. And I've found that with Christmas too, that
I wake up, I have this excitement that I kind
of didn't even expect to have. I still have it.

(26:47):
And you have a plan, and sometimes you'll go and
do the plan, but then I don't like when the
plan's done, I'm just at home, and at six o'clock
on Christmas night, I feel sick because I'm just like,
this is just like any other night. What am I
meant to have leftovers? This is Christmas like? And I'm
horrified by that.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
This is the thing. So the experts say, and I'm
going to get to your excellent birthday boundaries in a minute,
Claire Murphy, because you have got the right idea, you'll
be surprised to hear the experts say that managing expectations
is the absolute key to this right, but also for
the people around you to understand what's required of them. Now,
there was a brilliant piece online about a man who's
trying to opt out of his wife's unrealistic birthday expectations.

(27:27):
He said they've been married for years and they've got kids,
and she really wants a big, big, big fuss on
the birthday. And he's worked out over the years that
no matter what he does, it isn't enough. So one
year he'd planned her she wanted to go skydiving, she
wanted a picnic in a hot air balloon, whatever, and
he did it all, and she still ended up in
tears at the end.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Of her Oh my god, okay.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
And so he had written online and he'd said, I've
decided to set a boundary that I'm just out of
the birthday business because I can't win, and we just
have a big fight every year. I told her calmly,
and she responded with shrug shoulders that she knew I'd
changed my mind. He told her that he's not going
to plan anything. He's not going to do anything right.
Her birthday is now two months away, he writes, and
she's been coy, silly, persistent in hints that she's excited.

(28:09):
I did to see what I've got planned, and he said,
I'm planning a nice dinner at home with our kids
and anything else you need to plan yourself. His wife
now thinks that this is a strategy to hide reverse psychology. Really,
so Murphy, what's going to happen to this poor man?
And are we sometimes unrealistic in our birthday boundary demands?

Speaker 4 (28:32):
Yeah, we are, And we're unrealistic about a lot of
these things. We're unrealistic about what marriage looks, like, we're
unrealistic about our relationship with our boss. Like we're unrealistic
about so many things, And like that could be for
many reasons. Maybe your mum and dad had the most
wonderful relationship in the world and Dad spoiled mum and
now you are ruined for every other man that comes after,

(28:52):
or like maybe it's because you've watched too many rom coms.
I don't know whatever it came from. But like, it's
not that I have low expectations. It's just that I
don't expect everyone to I don't know, like stop their
entire lives for one day, Like I don't know. I
just I want people to acknowledge that is my birthday,
by me gifts.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
I love.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
My kid creates the most ridiculous artwork for my birthday
and I love that.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
So, like there's lots of things that I do expect.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
But if my husband was to get up and go
I have got an emergency at work. I can't do
your birthday thing today.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Is that okay?

Speaker 4 (29:27):
I'd be like, yeah, cool, get on with my day,
Like I'm not so let down by it.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
At the end of it all, Jesse, you're going to
hate one of the suggestions that the expert had, because
we've talked about this on the show before. Instead of
making it your birthday day, make it a birthday week
because you spread your expectations out across the week.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Oh, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
You think that is why people have started doing birthday weeks.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
That's a good point. But then it's like, it's a
Monday morning, and I'm indignant because the Monday mornings aren't
meant to happen during my birthday week. Like I have
the pleasure of never nearly never having to work on
my birthday because.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
It's very often sometimes, but it's very often almost holidays,
isn't it.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yeah, which maybe pus more pressure on it, Like it
was always also school holidays, so it was like the
sitting around waiting for a fuss to be made was
just always so so unmeat. It was Luca's birthday over
the weekend, and he was just like not interested in
doing and I kept trying to push something because I

(30:29):
was like, you'll be disappointed, You'll be disappointed, and we
sat there realistically, you'll be disappointed. Yeah, well he was fine.
On Saturday night we watched TVA and a Mexican. I
was like, this is the saddest thing ever, and he
was absolutely found it very joyful.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
You need to tavy rules. So as you've got Murphy,
You're like, I expect these things to happen. I expect
the people who live in my house to do these things.
They're not extravagant things, but there things that matter. And
I'm the same. I'm like, whoever's birthday is in my
house gets breakfast in bed. Whatever they want for their birthday, Yeah, breakfast.
So if it's one of the kids' birthdays and they
want chocolate for breakfast on their birthday, they can have it, fabulo.
That's no problem. I expect to be able to be

(31:03):
eating what I want for dinner that night, whether it's
out or in, and I expect, as previously discussed, to
have to empty the dishwasher.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Those of the can I ask a question quickly? I
keep saying to people around me it's the big thirty
five this year. I want to do something special for
my thirty fifth. I'm sorry, the what Okay, No, this
is good. People have started to react, like Uclaire, where
they're like, thirty five ain't a big birthday and I'm wait, guys,
I think we should go away for my birthday and
they're like, thirty five isn't a mile. So no it's not.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
You get eighteen, you get twenty one, and then it's
ten year increments from that.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Note, you're on trend. My brother so he had he
was fifty five this year. Yes, we're ancient, and he
had a massive party. He didn't have a massive party
even for his fiftieth, but he had a massive party. Apparently,
in Europe, the five years europaid turn is becoming more
and more popular as the one because the Zeros are

(31:58):
so confronting zero. It's like I confront you that halfway through.
So you are on trend.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
Jesse Stevens, Okay, see, I've got to do something big
for my master birth Can I tell you what I'm
doing for my birthday year. I'm turning forty seven, so
it's not at anything birthday, but my best friend and
I are going up to the Gold Coast and we're
recreating our childhood experiences by going to all the worlds
because we used to go down the Lord kids.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
That's so fine.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
And the beauty of working at mamameir As you get
your birthday day off. I know that sucks for you
guys because often a public call it anyway, but you
get your birthday day off and then you get to
go and have fun, which is really cool. So yeah,
I'm going to like dream World and wet and wild
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Oh that's so fun.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Do you think that man's marriage is going to survive?
The one who's often no birthdays and his wife thinks
he's planning, that's.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Going to be the biggest fight of their entire lives.
The advice was you need to write her a letter
to warn her, and I'm like, no, she'll just think
this is part of the elaborate prank. Like she's just
going to go, Wow, you've really lowered my expectations. It's
not gonna end well. It's not going to end well.
After the break a man named ned, some secret photographs
sent to his wife and the explosion of an internet career.

(33:08):
You either know nothing about story or every little detail,
and I'm here to explain one.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and
Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link at
the show notes to get us in your ears five
days a week. And a huge thank you to all
our current subscribers.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
There was a story that went viral over the weekend
back in my hometown of Adelaide. I don't know if
you caught this, but a lady went to donate some
goods to her local second hand store and did something
that if you've ever given birth to a child, we.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Are all at risk of doing.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
She went, dropped off the goods, All is well and good,
went Batska.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
She's got a toddler and a baby. She's strapping them
all in.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
She drives away, leaves behind her seven hundred dollar Bugaboo pram.
And for anyone who's ever had babies, you know what
a status symbol a Bugaboo pram is. Anyhow, of course,
the thriftall looks at it and goes, oh, someone's just
left this not where it's supposed to be. They sold
it to someone for twelve bucks, and then this lady
went on the internet She's like, I'm so sorry I

(34:17):
left my pram behind. Someone bought it for twelve bucks,
desperately tried to like get it back again. Apparently the
woman who bought it for twelve bucks, who thought she
had the investment of the century for moms, then came
back and said, yeah, look it was me.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
I will give it back to you.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
But then apparently Bugaboo has come back to the original
mum who lost your prem and said, here have another
one the other.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
La okay wait, I have a big question that I
keep wondering with this story, because if I left my
pram outside a Salvos, no one would touch was thinking
the same thing, because you know how before you donate
anything to you meant to clean it, and you meant
to have it all nice and well crapped beautiful. Must

(35:01):
her pram have been so my pram.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Tailed it people would not detailed it like that.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Maybe she detailed it for fear of infection, like it
has mandarin pills, half a banana, dirty wipes, toys like
spills of smoothie and juice all on the white thing,
like the fact that it was in such condition that
it was sellable. But I reckon I have thought this
with prams because I'm in my prime era. Love it

(35:27):
the places I leave the pram because I feel as
though like it's got this stench, Yes, stench that's like
no one will ever.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Take active stench.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
But also like a security aur about prams. Yes, I
see prams outside of places all the time. You don't
touch them, you don't steal them. They're for babies, leave exactly.
So I leave mine.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
I will go I'm sure you're not meant to do this,
but like into my local. It's not a shopping center,
but it's like a little mall thing, right, And I
will leave it out the front because Luna's at the
age where she lights going up and down the escalator.
That's our excursion. So I will leave it sometimes for
thirty minutes with just whatever in it, thinking that no
one will touch it. No one ever does touch it,
that's the rule. So I if I were her, I

(36:06):
would not be expecting anyone to sell mykaboo.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
I also feel for this woman because we all know
that to get the hand me downs to the Salvos,
she would have been driving around with them in the
back of her car for at least six months. We
all do that where you're like, I'm definitely donating this,
I'm not throwing it out. But then you don't remember
she was driving around and she thought she had the
pram in the back of the car. The bit of
this story, she goes home, she opens the boot, it's
not there, and the bags have gone, and she's like,

(36:32):
maybe I've had some kind of breakdown. I really feel
for her. I understand it on a deep level. And
the fact that someone out there scored a dirty bugaboo
pram for twelve bucks, oh my god, applause amazing and.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Just finally, could we maybe normalize using prams when you
no longer have a baby?

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Like, just thinking about this, I'm like.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
God, I wish I still had a pram, Like the
amount of stuff you can fit in it, don't have
to carry anything.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
So Claire, I have not used a plastic bag for
more than two years because I mental warrant shark. I
just have like banana whatever I've bought, just in the
bottom of the pram. But the thing is, if I
see you walking down the street with the pram and
no baby, I just assume you drop the baby off somewhere.
I think that you can absolutely go for pram.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
Your kid's ten, but used to, but then eventually you
could maybe convert into like a dog pram, like you know.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
I'd see a lot of those around.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Yeah, Also the amount of stuff I've accidentally shoplifted because
I've put it in the bottom of the pram and
then walked out.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Without paying for it.

Speaker 4 (37:30):
I apologize, I promise not to do that anymore because
it's not baby brain.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
But like, can we just if we all had a pram,
we'd just be a much happier place.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
I think, where's my midlife pram?

Speaker 3 (37:42):
I've got a lot of shit to hurry around?

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Have you seen my skincare bag?

Speaker 3 (37:47):
I want to introduce you both to an all or
nothing on a man named Ned former. If that rings
a bell, then you might be a rusted on out
louder who remembers our show from September twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Who doesn't. Yes, I've committed exactly, yeah, every single one.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
And that was three years ago, right, and our friend
Ned came up. Let's start at the beginning. Ned was
part of a group called the Try Guys. They were
all over BuzzFeed and then they went to YouTube and
you won't believe it. But they tried things.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
They tried like a comedy kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yes, and they started like one of their most viral
videos was simulating labor paint, or they would try being
pregnant and put on like a pregnancy suit, or they
saw one where they got waxed. Yes, exactly right, just
like try being a poker champion, all that kind of stuff.
And their videos had billions of views, like they were
totally totally viral, and there were four of them, and

(38:45):
Ned Fulmer was known as the wife guy. The reason
he was kind of known as that was that he
had two little kids at the time and his wife Ariel,
who appeared in a lot of the content as well.
People really leaned into that.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Life guy became kind of like we've thrown it around
a lot, like I always say, David Beckham's a wife guy.
There are certain celebrities who are always like, being really
in love with their wife is of their brand.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
And that started with Ned. Ned was the first time
we heard he's the og wife guy. He's the og
wife guy. And look that was until fans photographed Ned
having an affair with the producer of the show.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
This is one of the problems with being a wife
guy is that if it turns out that you're not
oh great to your wife.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
What happened, So the fan was out and about and
he was like, he must have been kissing her us.
It was very, very obvious, but they took photos of
Ned and this woman and then sent them directly to Ariel.
He's white, directly to the wife outed by a fan,
and then some video photo thing went absolutely viral and

(39:53):
ultimately Ned was booted from the group. And this story
to give you a sense of how big it was
at the time. It was parodied on Saturday Night Life,
it was in newspapers, it was everywhere. It made it
to us even though we'd never heard of the Try
guys before this moment. Three years passed, both of them
dis appeared. You've not heard anything from them. It was
one of the biggest cancelations ever. Did they get divorced

(40:15):
like we presumed that they split up, We didn't know
There lost his job.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Basically they booted him from the crew because he was
bringing them into disrepute.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
And there had been sightings of the two sort of
around where they lived, and they were like, oh, maybe
they're still together. Maybe they're not. We don't really know,
but Ned is back. He has a podcast called rock
Bottom where he interviews people who have made big mistakes
and he asked them how they came back. And the
first guest, which doesn't actually quite fulfill that promise of

(40:47):
a podcast, but anyway, his first guest is his wife Aeriel.
And here's a little taste of the conversation they had.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
People ask me like, do you forgive Ned for what
he did? And I mean the answer is no, absolutely not.
How can you forgive somebody for like, for lying to you,
for cheating on you? No?

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Fuck no, fuck no.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
I think I like Ariel. I like Ariel a.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Lot, though she obviously has forgiven him, to the point
where when I was reading a little bit about this,
they talk about how they are kind of still together,
like they're not together, but they're together, like as in
they're together as a family unit, they do things together
as a family. They're not explicit in whether or not
they've moved on or really got divorced, but clearly she

(41:42):
wants everybody to know that she did not stick with
that idiot who was so silly that he was cheating
in public as a famous person who was a.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Wife guy exactly. Interestingly, he isn't resentful about being canceled.
He says it was justified. And then he totally gets
it and that what the internet wants is a one
dimensional character which he played into, which was this wife
guy thing. And in Good News, Ariel is setting up
a pottery business. I hope it wasn't in the show
notes and we all love that for her go by

(42:13):
a pottery.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
So he's coming back and she's coming back in different
ways exactly now what he's been doing for money for
three years.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
Here's my question, right, is because there has been an
enormous amount of resistance, people say, oh interesting. In the podcast,
she calls it the affair, he calls it the scandal. Right,
there's a lot of eye rolling. Three is a long time.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Did he go into any detail about the affair? I
think he says it's someone at work, right, but he
doesn't give you any context in how long was it
going on?

Speaker 3 (42:41):
No, And then he says something that I didn't like
about how their marriage was kind of a fantasy and
the dream was starting to break. I really hate it
when an affair like this happens and they're kind of
like well, you know there was a problem with the marriage,
even if that's true. Yeah, just like it attempts to
place blame on the other person in a way that
I think is really unhelpful.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
Like life can get hard, you don't have to cheat
on your partner. You can have open discussions with them
and act like an adult.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
And in the relationship that's allowed.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
But is there a good way to be a famous
person or a public person and to come back from
a cheating scandal without looking like a dick. Because I'm
thinking about I mentioned before Wife Guy, Trademark, Wife Guy
David Beckham very famously there was a big cheating scandal
with Heat and Posh in the noughties. Their strategy has
always been don't talk about it. Just don't talk about it,

(43:31):
just don't go there, just don't give it oxygen. Even
in their documentary, the Beckham Documentary, it was kind of
referenced as we went through a hard time. Some of
the headlines even about that story were a bit edited.
So they've never given it fuel. Now this guy is
giving it a lot of fuel in a way, but
he's still kind of talking around it. As you say, Jesse,
he's calling it a scandal a problem in my marriage.

(43:53):
He's not like, is there a way for a cheater,
particularly a male cheater, although maybe we don't see female
cheaterers talking about publicly to win back a female audience,
do you reckon?

Speaker 3 (44:03):
So that's a good point about the female audience. That
I should say as well is that eighty percent of
the try guys all was young women. And I think
that's the other important factor, and that I don't think
his crime was in fidelity. I think his crime was
being inauthentic. Yes, people felt as though I was sold
this version of you, and now I saw someone in

(44:25):
an article compare him to someone that was a literal criminal,
and I went, no, No, he's not a criminal. He did
something bad that a lot of people do. I mean
even the word bad, like it's very moralizing, like who
are any of us to judge?

Speaker 2 (44:37):
But she says she felt betrayed, So yeah, so we
know that for her, cheating was a line. Like we've
talked about this when it was the Coldplay couple. You
don't always know what's going on in people's marriages. You
don't always know where they're up to and whether or
not they're separating or not. You don't always know. Maybe
they're open, maybe they're not. But she has clearly said
here like this devastated me and I will never forgive you.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
But I think what you said, Jesse then is so
true in that the audience that he was catering to,
being majority women, are going to be a lot harder
to win back than if your audience is majority men.
Like Donald Trump, for example, has famously cheated on his
wives and so on and said awful things about women,
and yet it doesn't really matter for him that much
because the majority of his supporters are men. And I

(45:20):
think if you are catering to women, women are so
much more judgmental of you if you have hurt another woman,
unless for whatever reason, the Internet hates that woman, which
could be for various reasons. So we don't hate Ariel.
We like Ariel. So that's why it's going to be
really tough for him to come back unless he takes
full responsibility, which it sounds like he is definitely not done.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Well.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
It's funny, right because even the name of the podcast
being rock Bottom, like if he went to the best
crisis PR team in the world, which I reckon he has,
and he said what's from a move. I think this
is exactly what they would tell him to do. I
think they'd say, laylo, try and repair things to some extent.
You don't have to get back together, but show that

(46:01):
she can tolerate you. That's a good start. Willing enough
to come on your podcast is enough? Yes, Yes, platform
her because the big thing is always like, well you
got your say, she didn't hers, So give her her say.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
There's someone else, though, isn't there who isn't getting a say?
The other woman in this situation, which is why these
things are so thorny to discuss, because we always talk
about like you can tell your truth, but your truth
nearly always involves someone else and their truth. So maybe
also wherever that woman is, the woman who was in
the photos that got sent to Ariel, this will blow
all this up for her as well. Like if I

(46:33):
was you know, we're all done our time as internet journalists.
Whatever happened to the woman that ned Fulmer was passing
in that restaurant, like, it also blows that back up
for her. So there's another strategy here, which is that
ned Fulmer came back to make an interesting and original
podcast about something that had nothing to do with his
personal life.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
See, I don't think that was ever an option. I
reckon that he's brand now is rock bottom, Like that's
his brand and he needs white wife guy, and he
needs to own it and go I'm the guy that
was spat out by the internet ruthlessly. I'm going to
explore that in a series with like bearing All, And

(47:13):
I think that we've seen a lot of men, even
like the Louis c ks is, like they've got to
be the canceled dude. They have to kind of wear
that for a while, right, even all their specials are
like cords anything.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
You're so right, But as Murphy's just said, that works
okay for your brand if your brand was never squeaky
clean in the first place. Like the reason why you're
Donald Trump's and your Charlie Sheen's. You were talking about
that doco the other day, Like everybody knows that they
are not morally, you know, untouchable when it comes to
the cheating on their wives. Is probably good for their
brand in some twisted way. They're not pretending. You hit

(47:47):
the nail on the head before, Jesse when you said
it's about the inauthenticity, which is why some people get
canceled for things that other people can say freely. It's
because they're like, well, I thought you were somebody different.
I didn't think you were that person.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Ellen DeGeneres her not being kind.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Because everyone was like, but she's the nice lady who
dances on the show. But it's interesting because your point
about this is a great strategy to come back into
viewing people at the bottom of pylons is that it
depends because he can't put himself in company of genuine victims,
do you know what I mean, Like people who have
genuinely been misrepresented, bullied, Like he can't really put himself

(48:22):
in the company of that when he was having an
affair with a co worker and just was not smart
enough to be private about it.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
Be interesting to see who his next guest lineup is,
because you're right, it would be pretty difficult for him
to connect with someone who's been canceled for other reasons.
But if his list of candidates is like other men
who've done things like that, might be interesting to hear
how men speak to other men about these moments. But
I think trotting out Ariel for EP one, I think

(48:54):
I could see what they were trying to do with that.
They want to blow open all the cobwebs. They don't
want anyone to ask any more questions. They want that
out of the way upfront, like stop talking about it,
let's move on with this.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Now new podcast idea.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
But I'm really interested to see who these next guests
are going to be, because I think.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
That will then mark what kind of guy this guy is.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
I also think you nailed it in there. There's lots
of enthusiasm for Ariel because very often when a public
man is cheating and then his wife comes out and
says that she stood by him in whatever capacity, she
usually does say that she forgave him. She usually says
I knew he wasn't being himself. I knew he was
going through a hard time. I know there's a lot
of love here, and so to hear Ariel say quite

(49:36):
so clearly, no fuck no about this, I think there'll
probably be a lot of women cheering.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
And the question is whether this relaunch is gonna work,
because he has every right to come back. He can
lost whatever show he wants.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
You could argue that losing your job for a private
you know, is not really fair, but as we've already
unpacked as largely because he was being fraudulent in his
representation exactly.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
But we don't have any obligation to listen or to
enjoy or to consume the content. And I can't really
see it being because he's his role was. He described
himself as a comedian before, and this all has to
get very serious in order for him to wear it
and try and build back his reputation. And I don't

(50:20):
see it working.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Great hobby, I hope a pottery businesses a lot of
cops that say fuck no at the bottom of it.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Out loud as a massive thank you to all of
you for being with us here today, and to you
Claire Murphy of course for filling from Melia Lester, and
to everybody for putting up with my slightly wobbly voice. Friends,
don't forget that if you want to see our glorious faces.
This is what Need got wrong is he didn't realize
he was Internet famous at a level that we know.
This is why you can't scream at your daughter in public. No,

(50:50):
I see, I can't choke passion pop at any school function.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
No, the role is Claire, you can't cheat in public.
It's got to be behind closed doors. That's a number
one role of having your face on the internet.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
Look, I'm glad you told me that because I would
never have worked that out on my own without you
killing me.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
If you want to be able to recognize us causing
mister Mere's in public, you need to go over to YouTube. YouTube.

Speaker 4 (51:13):
Please don't judge me for my middle age PRAM, which
will be in some kind of condition by the time
you see.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
It, and we will be back in your ears tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Out Loud as before we go, Parenting out Loud, your
favorite news show is in its own feed, so you
need to go and follow it. At Parenting out Loud.
There are new apps every Saturday and it is hosted
by Monic Bowley, Amelia Lester and Stacy Hicks. And in
the latest episode, they talk about the rise of something
called stealth mum and why more and more women are

(51:41):
choosing not to share that they're parents. Plus they also
have a chat about the new rule book around praise
and why millennial parents are overthinking things.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
No, I.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
It's a great episode. There's a link in our show notes.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Bye bye.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Shout out to any mom and mea subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
Subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way
to do so. There's a link in the episode description.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Pay then say, taking the sect cost

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