September 15, 2025 • 43 mins
The assassination of Charlie Kirk dominated the news all weekend. As the arguments rage online, we unpack the aftermath and what it means for political discourse moving forward.
Then, a royal twist. Prince Harry’s return to the UK may have changed everything—and yes, it involves a specific cake with serious meaning.
Plus, Jessie’s trend of the week: the 'mayor walk'. It’s power, it’s pep, it’s posture—and apparently, one of us was born to do it. (Mia, please sit down.)
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Jessie Stephens and Amelia Lester
Group Executive Producer: Ruth Devine
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a Mother and Mere podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to mum mea out loud What women are actually
talking about on Monday, the fifteenth of September. I am
Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm me and Friedman because hollywaen Right is sick.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Amelia Last.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And here's what's on our agenda for today. The assassination
of Charlie Kirk in broad daylight, the aftermath and what
it all means.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Plus Prince Harry went back to the UK last week
and it has changed everything.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
And what is a mayor walk? And can doing one
transform my mood? But first we have to talk about
Charlie Kirk. I just want to obviously start by saying
how horrifying it was to hear, and a lot of
out louders will have seen or will have had people
in their household, friends and family and kids who saw
(01:02):
the whole footage of a thirty one year old man
being a sated in front of thousands of people in
broad daylight while he was talking on a college campus.
And I didn't actually know who Charlie Kirk was, and
so I was trying to I felt like I was
playing catch up because I was like, what just happened?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Who is this guy?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
And my teenagers were like, you don't know who Charlie
Kirk is?
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, No.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
He was very familiar to young people because he was
all over TikTok and had started this movement where he
sort of goes on college campuses and debates people. But
I didn't know who he was, and so all I
was reeling from was the shock. And my kids friends
were messaging them telling them to be careful on social
media because some of their friends had seen the full video.
(01:50):
I've got friends with primary school age children who saw
it because within you know, seemingly minutes of the attack,
it was circulating everywhere. Every second reel you would see
on TikTok and every second Instagram post was this incredibly
violent footage of a man being murdered.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Essentially, how did you guys feel when you heard?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Well?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I think I had two reactions. It was really upsetting
to think about this man who has two young children
being killed and seeing that footage is something that is
really hard to take. But then the second thing that
was why it really hit me is because it's an
act of political violence. And remember when Trump was almost
assassinated a year ago, there was an attempt on his life.
(02:29):
When I heard that news, I burst into tears because
there's something so uniquely disturbing about the idea of someone
being killed for what they say, and it makes us
all feel unsafe.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think I agree with you. I found it really shocking.
I found the way that the events transpired sort of
in real time from the other side of the world,
quite unusual, in that we had the President of the
United States declaring him dead before anyone else knew that
was the case. We'd seen the footage, people didn't know
(03:03):
if he died or not.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And then by the time I came to the story,
it was all you must have been up earlier than
I was here.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You did know who Charlie Kirk was.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, I was very familiar with Charlie Kirk. He's been
all over my Instagram and TikTok for twelve months. As
you say, he's thirty one. He's widely credited as the
guy who is very much responsible for getting the younger
vote to galvanize around Trump. There is a very convincing
argument that Trump would not have been elected if it
weren't for child.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I did not know that he was that significant.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, and so Charlie Kirk, just to give you a
little bit more background, he was not simply a conservative influencer,
like he was in with Donald Trump and in with
Donald Trump's family. So do you remember the false reports
about eating family pets Haitians eating family pets around the
time of one of the debates.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
The dog.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, So Charlie Kirk was instrumental in perpetuating that myth,
Like he was so on the Internet that he had
the power to basically go, this is the story we're
going to tell, and he handle he was.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Which was a completely untrue.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Story, completely untrue. So he basically had a handle on
the young conservative movement and in terms of getting Trump
in office in both twenty sixteen and twenty twenty four,
there's a through line with Charlie Kirk, like he started
up in twenty twelve and was like, let's make conservative
politics cool again. Let's go and own the Libs. And
(04:30):
he was able to galvanize this whole generation of people
and be like, we're for real American values. Hahna. Social
media in a way that was very new, and this
debate platform that we were talking about a few months
ago he popularized that lately. Yes, he was the guy.
That's what Turning Point USA is, which he co founded.
(04:51):
It was about educating young people on conservative values.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So can I ask, because you say that he's been
in your algorithm for a year now, I guess that's
because you're watching these videos. That's why he keeps popping up.
And what is it about him that inspired such strong connections?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I would always stop because I found it so infuriating.
And it was because it was like he thought that
because he spoke really fast and used lots of words
in the same vein as someone like Ben Shapiro, who
is the facts, don't care about your feelings conservative guy,
that he was owning someone and showing out the hypocrisy
and the weakness of their argument. But really he was
(05:27):
just talking really really loud over the top of people.
To me, it was such an indictment on the state
of debate. Like, I found it incredibly depressing. But he
also came up in a lot of conversations I have
with friends because every now and then they'd go, ah,
did he kind of make a good point about this thing?
Because he could be very, very persuasive, but he was
(05:48):
arguing for really dangerous, really upsetting political views. The idea
that he would be assassinated for speaking, you know, his
beliefs was just I can't think of another word other
than shocking. And a lot of people felt the need
to say this, but like, I don't think I've ever
(06:09):
agreed with a word that Charlie Kirk has said, and
I've actually seen a lot of them. But that doesn't
mean that political violence or that someone losing their life
for what they're saying is allowed. And I think I
found it. There were two sides. There was the holding
him up as a martyr, and then there was barely
the news had dropped. I don't even think his kids
(06:31):
would have barely known what had happened to him yet,
and there was glee. It was such a uniquely Internet moment.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
What made me so shocked was the butt I disagree
with you. I don't think there was two sides. I
think there was probably three, because there was the people
who were just like, this is just terrible, and I
would put myself in that camp.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I think those people didn't post, well.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
No, but why do you have to post? This is
what made me feel so heartsick. Apart from the human
heartsick story of a father with two children, age one
and three, and a wife who it's unclear whether she
was there or she wasn't there, but it doesn't matter.
It's been televised globally essentially via the internet. Firstly, why
(07:12):
does everybody have to come on social media and make
a statement like what is that about? Secondly, the people
who come on and say this is bad, but I
didn't agree with what he said, or but sometimes violence
is necessary. I saw some people say but sometimes violence
is necessary. These are respectable mainstream commentators. You know why
(07:36):
when is violence necessary?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You Know what I notice more than anything this weekend
is that there's something really interesting about who people are
talking to. The extremes are talking to each other, and
if you're not exposed to one extreme, it looks like
someone is staring at the sky, shaking their fist, saying
something that doesn't make sense. It's like, why is the
butt necessary? The reason why people went that way is
because on the other side you saw the reaction of
(08:01):
conservatives in the US. It was as though this man
was some kind of messiah, and he was someone who
lacked empathy throughout his life, and he was someone who
defended gun ownership, and he was someone who had said,
we're going to have a few regret.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
About if this matters.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Can we just agree that we don't kill people if
we disagree with what they stand for, or what they say,
or what they believe. My exhaustion and my despair at
the last few days has been, you know exactly what's
going to happen. Some people are going to celebrate it,
then there's going to be opinions written, and then there'll
be backlash to the opinions and hot takes of hot takes,
(08:39):
and everyone will try to cancel each other if you
say something, what should you say? And it's like, firstly,
you don't need to say anything, and secondly, you can
just say this is tragic. Can we all agree that
we don't kill people that we disagree with.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
This reminds me a little bit mea of when school
shootings happen and we're told that we're not allowed to
politicize them. And now it's not the time to talk
about gun control because that would be somehow desecrating the
memory of these children who were gunned down by weapons
that should never have been available to ordinary citizens.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Do you know what I've also thought about so much
is that this culture And we've noticed as people who've
been online for you know, getting close to two decades
now and writing opinion at the beginning, you know, in
the twenty tens, early twenty tens, people would say I
disagree with you. You know, there would be opinion sites and
other people would have opinions. It then became over the
(09:34):
last sort of five to ten years, you need to
delete it, take it down, apologize for what you said,
because this feeling of having an opinion out there that
you didn't agree with became so intolerable to a generation.
And it was part of cancel culture as well. Right,
So someone said something you didn't agree with. It's not
I disagree with this person and you debate them or
(09:56):
you choose not to engage with them anymore. It's they
need to be punished, they need to be canceled or
wiped out.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
But that's coming from both sides of me. I agree,
I agree this is Happeningvative forces in the US are
gathering to make lists of everyone who said things about this.
I agree, they didn't think.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Were And to me, it's not a left and right.
To me, it's our culture. Well, of the Internet of
if I disagree.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
With you, you.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Can't exist, and that is a through line to assosciation,
which is terrifying.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't know. I think that they might be disparate issues,
because what I worry about is we look at this
and go, oh, it's it's left and right. It's the
progressives on the internet have lost their mind. Hang on,
we know very little about the person who did this.
One man shot that bullet, and he will have had
a motive and an upbringing and was very pro guns
and all of that. And I do not like holding
(10:45):
a whole political spectrum to account for an act of
very specific political violence. You're allowed to go online and
criticize someone, absolutely, go for it. I mean, Charlie Kirk
did that, as was he's right. But political violence, we
know begets political violence. I think that's what's scary.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
And I think that you said something before, Jesse, that
we need to talk more about, which is that this
was a very online event. And Mia, you directed my
attention to an Instagram post from doctor Raymond Nichols. He wrote,
you were never meant to witness someone's final breath and
then laugh at a TikTok. You weren't built for that.
Your soul wasn't designed to hold that kind of weight
(11:22):
and then move on like it's nothing.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I think that part of the shock. This sounds sort
of ridiculous, but I thought about how many videos had
popped up of Charlie Kirk, and often I watched the
whole thing. I was trying to understand it. That man's
face had become very familiar to me. To watch that
man die was an incredibly confronting thing because of the
level of familiarity I suppose so many of us had,
(11:45):
and the reaction. You can look at the reaction from
all sides. I heard some journalists talking about it, and
journalists knew him as a man. They'd sat with him,
and they traveled with him, and he was a flesh
and blood person who some people liked, some people didn't.
And the fact that even after he died, it was
like for some people that wasn't an I just went
(12:08):
the man isn't breathing anymore.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, Like, don't you think that's a result of dehumanizing
people in the first place.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah. And in terms of the political violence, begetting political violence,
people are scared.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I think it's also about the fact that people are.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Scared, terrified. I mean if I was getting up on
stage and that sounds ridiculous, but I think that the
media class is kind of having this moment of if
we live in a culture where you can't sit on
stage and say what you think, we'll.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Look at Salmon Rushti.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah, it wasn't that long ago that someone tried to
murder him.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
But also the building up of him as a martyr,
which is happening right now. I mean people are scared,
Like ordinary Americans who don't speak into microphones for a
living are scared because when you build someone up as
a martyr and then you say that the martyr has
been killed, it leaves you to wonder what actions will
be taken as a result of that.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, and to your point before, Amelia, about this happening
across the spectrum. Three months ago, Melissa Hortman, who was
a Democrat and her husband was shot and killed in
their home. Now President Donald Trump refused to say her name.
In the past, when Jay k was assassinated, when Martin
Luther King was assassinated, there was at least this sense
of like we can stand here as a political class,
(13:14):
hold hands and say we disavow this across the spectrum,
this does not happen. But now you get the but
what about thing because a moment like this happens and
you have Elon Musk right, the left is the party
of murder. Like that's just not I agreeful.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
And I think back to what you said Jesse before
about there were two groups of people. This all comes
down to the algorithm and the internet. I think that
the reason it can feel so demoralizing being online and
make you despair is that you do only see the
extremes and they are not symbolic of how most people
(13:52):
feel about anything.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And the problem was, we see the extremes. We saw
this happen, and maybe that's why it was such a
big deal. Do you think, because in some ways this
feels like a bigger deal than when the Trump assassination
attempt happen.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
The reason I heard someone say that it felt like
a bigger deal, and I'm not American and I wouldn't know,
but maybe you can speak to this, Amelia, is that
there is a tragically a blueprint for attempted assassinations or
assassinations of American presidents. You know, there was JFK, there
was the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan, the attempted assassination
(14:27):
of Trump. That's why it was like, it was shocking,
but it wasn't surprising, the attempted assassination of Trump. Charlie Kirk,
As far as I understand, Jesse, he wasn't a political candidate.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
He didn't hold office.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
He had no actual impact on the leavers of government,
unlike someone say, even Anelon Musk, who was actually in
there doing things.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
At the behatal.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
He was powerful, but he was influential exactly. He was influential.
And the people that said this is what made my
blood curdle is that the people who were like, sometimes
violence is necessary, and I'm like, what, so, it's necessary
if you disagree with the person. But then if someone
uses that justification because they disagree with you to be
(15:10):
violent against you, Suddenly, oh no, it's only necessary when
I disagree with the person's views, and that that's not
a democracy.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
That's You've christiz for me as to why this is
such a big deal. Why we're talking about this on
a Monday when it happened on a Thursday on the
other side of the world, And it's because he was
famous and was killed because of his words. He wasn't
in office, he didn't have actions to criticize or condemn.
He just had words.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
This is why we protest, and this is why we speak,
and this is why we debate, and we do all
of those things. And in the course of a debate,
you can entirely lack empathy. And I want to sort
of acknowledge space for that, because Charlie Kirk did dehumanize
a lot of people, he did hurt a lot of people.
But just because he lacked empathy doesn't mean that in
the wake of his death we need to like, that's
(16:01):
not how I.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Know unless you believe that words of violence. And then
the logic all through line is that, well, if someone's
been violent to me with their words, I can be
violent to them with a gun.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And that's a terrifying.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Reality in a moment, how Harry's trip to the UK
has suddenly changed everything. The Duchess of Sussex's jams have
been arriving on us doorsteps this week and last week.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I have an unpopular opinion. I think they're too cheap.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
How much are they They're nine dollars and I think, yeah,
I think it's seven dollars postage.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But like with all this fuss, I reckon.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
I mean, I wouldn't have bought them, but I think
she could have sold them for like thirty dollars.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I completely agree. Agree, is there expensive postage?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Seven dollars?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Apparently there was some twine and some dried lavender on it, so.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Okay, that was just a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It makes it film mass produced. I completely agree. And
I don't know if you heard this or even if
it made it into the cup for Friday's episode, but
you know, we spoke to a tower card reader on
Friday and one of our questions was whether Holly will
ever get her hands on a jam.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I think there's a lot of it available now.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't know how hard she get in Australia Maya,
and she said she will get the jam, but maybe
not the jam.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
That she wanted. It might be, which isn't that how
life goes? So this is not about the jam. Prince
Harry's had a really good couple of days. Let me explain.
He took a thirty six hour trip to Kiev in
Ukraine over the weekend and he was promoting his Invictus
Games foundation there, but Before that, he went to the.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
UK for a few days and had a balloon animal
sword fight with a small child.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Oh so sel photos. He went, He visited sick children,
He got out and about in the community. He was smiling,
he was laughing. The UK press called it old Harry
is back again, because you know, he's only been to
the UK recently for lawsuits and has looked very dow
funerals and funerals.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So was he in the UK as part of an
Invictus Games thing too, I'm just wondering.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
No, it was essentially a little unofficial royal visit. So
he went in part because he really wanted to meet
with his dad and it was unclear whether he was
going to And if you recall last week on the show,
I cited some reporting that said that his dad was
not going to meet with him. And the reason why
his dad was not going to meet with him is
because his other son, William has absolutely next this. He
(18:22):
says he's not allowed to meet with Harry. It's sort
of the same as Prince Andrew. Once you're out, you're out,
you can't be let back in. He said unforgivable things
about Kate. He implied that Kate was racist about his
children's skin color.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And that she was cold.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I've got a lot of sympathy for this idea because
can you imagine, given that so many private conversations were
relaid both in the Netflix documentary that harn Meghan did
and in Spare his memoir, like even meeting with Charles,
I think trust would be very much in tatters.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, and you know, I don't think it's unusual when
there are two children to sort of play off each
other to their parents. I remember once you and me
were talking about how fun it is to complain about
our sibling to our parents and then to see whether
or not they agree with you.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
And complain to our sibling about our parents exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So all of this has said that he didn't know
whether he was going to get to meet with him. Well,
guess what. Charles was coming down to London from Balmoral
for his weekly cancer treatment and he met with Harry.
This is a huge deal. They have not met since
February twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Do we know where they met?
Speaker 4 (19:27):
They met at Clarence House's house and the perhaps were
tipped off by the Palace to show Harry driving.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
In in his range.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Driver now apparently they really pulled out all the stops.
Harry has a beloved chocolate biscuit cake that Charles made
sure was laid out for him. Clearly this was a
real attempt by both sides to repair things.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
So the queen had this tradition of afternoon tea diplomacy
where if she really wanted something or she really wanted
someone to make them feel special, she would lay on
the full English afternoon tea with the proper sandwiches. And
she loved a bit of cake. So there was this
special cake that she would have, this chocolate biscuit cake,
which is quite as really good does and Harry loves it.
(20:12):
So there was a lot of people were saying, well,
when Harry goes, if he gets the chocolate biscuit cake
that is like the real symbol of an olive branch,
except in chocolate cake.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Form, and he got it tasty. So the question is why.
The question is why Charles went against the heir to
the throne and his eldest son's stated wish to meet
with his Maverick younger son, who has also not said
very nice things about him in the past. So why
did Charles do this? Mea what's your theory.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I had no theories. There's two that are going around.
There's a newsletter call the Royalists that I read by
a royal reporter called Tom Sykes, which I'm getting so
much value out of.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He has said that.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
The media is very focused on the split between Charles
and Harry, but what no one's really noticed is the
split between Charles and William. And he said that's the
big story because Charles believes that William is lazy, essentially
because he does not have nearly as many public engagements.
So even though Charles has been having cancer treatment for
(21:13):
the past twelve months, he's done one hundred and seventy
five engagements. But William has been very clear about family
first and wellness first, and Charles is of the queen thinking,
which is duty first. You never put anything above your
duty as a royal.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
And by the way, there's another dynamic land on top
of that, which is that William thinks he's going to
modernize the monarchy and he gets so fed up with
how Charles is very stuffy and he likes wearing his uniforms,
and he thinks this is all like very old fashioned,
and he thinks that putting his family first is showing
that he's doing a lot to modernize the monarchy.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
He's like, let's make the monarchy cool again.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So do you think that maybe Harry and Charles had
a little bit of a bitch about William.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I think Charles would have probably been more discreet than that,
because you know, you don't trust.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Harry, right, yeah, but you know with your mum you like, yeah, no,
you don't go full into it. You see how fire
you kind of go. How's William? Oh? Has he been
working hard?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
It's not a lot of engagements.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
That's true, And it's funny when Harry was in London
last week, suddenly Kate and William filled their diary with
some more engagements.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Did you read the profile in the Guardian about the
interview that he interviewed?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
And so he took a Guardian journalist with him on
this trip to Ukraine, which is really interesting. He's got
two new media advisors. What did you think of that.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Interviewinating so number one with the Guardian, which they even
say at the side of the article, this is a
really weird choice to have the Guardian go with him,
because the Guardian is a very openly Republican media outlets.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So is he he hates the monarchy too.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And then the second thing that's interesting about him going
to Ukraine. This is his second trip to Ukraine since
Russia's invasion, William has not been at all. William is
desperate to go, but because he's the heir to the throne,
they've said that it's not safe for him to go.
So there's been reporting that he was incredibly rankled by
the fact that Harry gets to go and show his
(23:11):
valor and his bravery stepping through the bombed out buildings,
and William just has to hang around on the Estonian
border with Russia because he's not allowed to go into Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I thought this was I thought of all the things
Harry and he's Montecito home with his la wife and.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
All of that.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I just thought of all the things he could do.
He doesn't need to be in Ukraine, like he doesn't
does no. I know he's got the Invictors games, but
I actually really respect his commitment to that cause. And
I read about him and he had this great quote
about like nobody should feel embarrassed or ashamed about their disabilities,
and it's about flipping from sympathy to admiration and respect,
(23:49):
like it's just a cause that's so consistent with him
and his life and his military experience. And I just
read that and I got to the end and went, yeah,
people really respect you because you kind of do know
what you're talking about, and you've chosen this cause and
stick with it.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
He also gave a million pounds to a charity in
the UK, and a lot of people thought this was
a little bit ghosh to give this amount of money.
But then Americans pointed out, who were very comfortable talking
about money, that William's Earthshot Prize, which also gives a
cash prize out to people, isn't even funded by William.
It's funded by private donors. So in other words, Harry
(24:22):
is putting his money where his mouth is in a
way that William is not.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
I can see how galling it would be for William
because Harry, and this is why the Queen was so
uneasy and vetoed Harry and Meghan's request to be part
time royals, because when you're half in, half out, he
gets to come and do these quasi royal tours. It
looks like a royal walks like a royal smells like
(24:47):
a royal but isn't officially royal, So that helps him
make commercial deals back in America because he's this pretend royal,
but he's not governed by any of the limitations of
being royal. So, for example, William can't go and do
what he does in Ukraine because it's too much of
a security risk.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Right and yet Megan, on the shortbread biscuits that went
out in the US this week, apparently on the packaging,
it says, these remind me of my time living in
the UK when I used to have tea and biscuits.
And you know, she's playing off this idea that these
are the biscuits that she probably hate at Buckingham Palace.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Speaking of Megan, she has given Harry some very good
advice that came through in the Guardian interview. So Harry
only mentions her once, but says that she tells him
that telling the truth is the most efficient way to leave.
I love that and now he lives by that.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I think that's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I think it's brilliant. She's so wise, our Meghan, and
I thought I could do it a little of that.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Remember when she said she didn't google him before they
were sorry the Guardian article. Did you read it, Jessea, Yeah,
I forget. So he is really.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
At pains in that to say, yes, I missed the UK,
but I also love my life in the US. And
people have been saying that he's been looking very miserable lately,
so maybe he's unhappy, but he was really at pains
to paint his life in the US is one that
he's very fulfilled in. Do you feel like that was
doth protest too much? Or did it feel convincing to you?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Totally convincing, totally convincing that he is not to love
and that they kind of said, oh, you know, you
whinge and yeah, someone who's always got something to complain about.
But he was saying everything I've spoken about is just
getting my version of what was already on the record
out there. It was a rite of reply and now
I've said it. He does seem happy, he does seem light.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
But here is where we need to move into rampant
speculation and mea, I want your thoughts on this. He
clearly wants in on some kind of royal or quasi
royal existence. He's been missing the shaking of hands and
the jousting with sick kids, and he wants some of that.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
He wants to be on the balcony.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
It's not clear Meghan wants that. In fact, I would
say that Megan feels much more comfortable doing exactly what
she's doing, which is pursuing a more traditional American or
Hollywood conception of celebrity. Or you do the TV shows
and then you sell associated branded products. These two intentions
are in conflict with each other.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Disagree because I think that what makes Meghan, the only
thing that makes Meghan different from any other influencer is
the Dutchess part. So they need the royal adjacency to
make money in the US and to retain their power,
and their income is directly linked to that royal adjacency.
(27:25):
If they're just Harry and Meghan, well you know, then
they're the same as like poshen Becks or any old
famous albeit world famous couple. There were two things in
that interview that really jumped out at me. The first
was when he said the next year is all about
my father. I'm like, okay, well, Charles is sicker than
we thought. And the second thing was the last line
(27:46):
where the journalist talked about how popular he is in Ukraine,
and because there's so many people who've got disabilities in
Ukraine who've been injured in the war, he's hugely famous
because of his Invictors games work right, and so he
was like mobbed in Ukraine. And the journalist recounted to
Harry that he'd asked one of the people, why do
you like him so much? And they said, oh, it's
just dis great royal. But he seems to do things
(28:08):
his own way. And when he said that to Harry,
Harry said, you know who else did their things their
own way? My mum. And I was like, oh, the
feeling that William and Harry must have in who has
claimed to Diana's legacy, because Harry has written so much
about his devastation and Diana and Diana and he is
(28:30):
like her in a lot of way, and William hasn't.
And there's this idea that somehow William wasn't affected by
her loss and isn't still affected by her loss, just
because he doesn't emote in that kind of American way.
You'd have to say that William, and I guess he could,
but that's not really the vibe of the monarch and
(28:51):
future monarch.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
It's such a funny and U forbidding family. There was
some other news last week. Paul Barrow, Diana's former butler.
He wrote something about the last days of Queen Elizabeth's
life and he had some inside sources there. And apparently
she didn't even tell her family that she being diagnosed
with cancer. She told her ladies in waiting, and she
told people around her, but she was concerned that as
(29:12):
she told the family, they'd say, you got to get
off the throne and we're going to put in a
regency ruling until you pass. And I just can't imagine
being in a family where you have to decide if
it's strategically okay for you to mention that you're dying.
MM after the.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Break, why you need to start going on mayor walks?
And I'm going to reveal who at this table is
an absolute expert in them.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Do you want daily outloud access? Why wouldn't you?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma
MEA subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to
get us in your ears five days a week, and
a huge thank you if you're already a subscriber.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
If you're feeling a bit flat, bit isolated, bit lonely.
A woman named Anna Syrian wants you to try what
she has termed the mayor walk. The writer she has
a substat called ambitious Softy says what she does is
she walks into the hub of her local neighborhood. So
think your local cafe, right, and she sets a challenge
(30:15):
for herself to embody the energy of a small town mayor. Right,
what does that look like? You have to assume everyone
is happy to see you. You have to make eye
contact with all dogs and all babies. You must carry
a warmth and lightness out in the community for specifically
ten to twenty minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
She's said, right, that amount of time is doable.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Is your limit?
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
She says this is the best way that she's managed
to make connections in her small community. Amelia, would you
say you have mayor energy?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Absolutely not. I think I have spoken on this podcast
about how my neighbors in my apartment building complain to
the strata that I was not friendly enough.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
But that is I feel like something what happened to me?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
But that is I think why I adore this. It's
a challenge, like even to do it for ten to
twenty minutes. It's scared me a little bit, and that's
how I know I must do it. So I tried
it this morning. I got on the bus and I
said good morning to the bus driver and then he
said something unintelligible back to me. But I felt like
I'd set off on the right foot and I'm going
to try this. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Can you try it in your own house?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I think the home could do with some maor energy
because you maya to call you out, you have mad
small town mayor energy in the office.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So what happens is this is how I imagine it going.
You get in the lift, you take a deep breath,
you close your eyes, you have a moment, you go
turn on the math, and then you walk out of
the lift. And because you happen to own this business,
you don't get to walk in like a MILLIONA and
I do where we put our heads down and hide
in the barthroend. You've got to have some kind of
present and you walk in and you have your queen
(31:58):
wave that you do to people. Yes, and they.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Don't got queen waves.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Oh sorry, you're shaking hands.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
You're not actually shaking people's heads and wave that's what
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And then you're going you have your prepared small talk,
you start touching people's clothes questionable.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Maybe whether that's my version of over the.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Wave yep, And then you just go, how's your weekend?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Da?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Da da, And you are like this this socialite that
turns it on ten to twenty minutes. And then you
go and hide in your office and when you see me,
you're like high like because you know you don't have
to go full mayor on me. But not the mayor
view to other people. I think that people who own businesses, wow,
have to turn on the.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Mayor, do you know?
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And also people who work in the service industry. Oh
when when you're in any way customer facing and you've
just nailed why I'm so tired, Because I've often said
when I'm at work, I feel the responsibility to walk
the floor so people can see me. I've got to
be interested in everyone, and I genuinely am.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
You must embrace babies. If there's a baby in the office,
it is like you must hold the baby. Make a fast.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
When you're the mayor or the owner of a business,
you know that people's interactions with you carry weight, and
if you are in a bad mood or distracted or
absent or whatever, they can take that personally in a
way that they might not if you're a regular coworker.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's like being in front of house.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, it's almost like being a little bit famous, right,
because everyone knows who you are, even if you don't
know who they are yet, because it might be their
first day, right, and like you haven't met them before,
but you've got to give them a memorable experience because
the mayor.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
This reminds me that I had a boss at a
magazine I used to work out who was quite famous,
and he's not an a winter or famous, but he's
up there for journalists. And his strategy was he would
walk around the office once a day, and you knew
that he'd come and see you, and you kind of
wanted to prepare for it by putting something on your
desk to start the conversation, because the one thing you
(33:53):
couldn't be was boring. So you might put a book
on your desk, or you might put a new snack
or some kind of offering to the boss on his
male walk so that when he came round to see
you you had something to riff on, and then you'd
make that connection as he went on his walk.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
That's genius, because I think people can become very anxious
when they have to talk to the mayor, because I
think it's not just business owners, but it's also managers.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I remember when.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
My boss used to come into my office when I
worked in magazines. I would always have like sporting equipment,
not actual sport equipment, but like there'd be an umbrella
that he would pretend was a golf club, or they'd
be like a ball that he could like throw in
the garbage bin, and that sort of facilitated his mayoral experience.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I have found that I've gone a bit full mayor
when I'm with Luna throughout the commit Like when I
was just on my own, I could just walk through
and be anonymous or whatever. But when I'm with Luna,
I almost want to present the world as this open,
exciting everyone's our friend, and I turn into a different
version of myself because I want to model what a kind, good,
(34:56):
engaged person looks like, which is entirely performative, Like I've
got to go all right, let's put on my acting hat.
So The other day, I took Leona. It was a
really cold day. We were hanging out the morning. We
walked past this guy I see all the time. I
say high to him, who is currently homeless, and we
stopped and I went, would you like a coffee? Let's
go and get this maun of coffee loner, and I thought,
(35:16):
and that was for Luna, Like I'd like to believe
that I'm a kind person. But I went, Luna needs
to see her mum being a mayor. And so when
on board it, she tried to steal the bickie off
the top and I went, no, no, no, that's not
good form, Luna, we're being the mayor, went and gave
it to him, and I was like, this is how
I should behave every single day, Like it makes you
feel so good about yourself because you're connected with the community.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
All the studies show that happiness comes from interactions that
you have with acquaintances or strangers. Yeah, the friendships and
the relationships, those are the draining ones.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
That's why so many of us suffered during COVID drive
because we didn't have we were deprived of those interactions.
Do you remember when we were finally let out of
our houses and we would have these long conversations with
strangers in like queues or on buses. I think it's
so interesting this idea of a mayor walk because a
mayor is different to a royal and different to a celebrity.
(36:07):
Because a mayor is accessible and a mayor is relatable
and accountable.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
And of service.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
You're of service.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
So I also think I think this is why I
hate having birthday parties, because you have to put on
your mayor hand. Oh and the thing about this that
I loved was I've got ten to twenty minutes, maybe
twelve minutes in me a full mayor mode.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You're right hosting a party, you have to be a mayor.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I hate because the thing is I have a birthday
party and you invite all your friends there, and I'm like,
I can't do three.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Do you know what it's worth? Kids' birthday parties where
you're unclear on the name of any of the people
you've invited to know, how can you be the mayor.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
When you don't know people's name and it just goes
on and on. It's like, I feel as though you
do ten minutes, you set it up, and then everyone
else you know what you need a sub in mayor.
You need to then go here's a baton. Now you
be the mayor, because I can't.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Suspect I've got it.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
My best tip for mayor's if you find yourself in
a mayor situation.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Great to see you.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Great to see you.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Not nice to meet you because maybe you've met before
and you've forgotten.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Really, it's great to see you.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
See do you think this whole conversation people have thought
we're talking about the male horse, female horse? Is it
a female horse?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
My biggest takeaway is that mea thinks an umbrella is
sporting equipment. Before we go, I have gone full domestic
goddess and I want to share it with you. I
know how to make a scone according to the Country
Women's Association, as you know, are the experts on this.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Did you do a course?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
A course this weekend? Sorry, of course she does.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Such unusual things, Amelia.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
This weekend I had a friend visiting from the US
and she has a baby and is very frazzled, and
I was trying to think of what's a really Australian
thing we can do that's not cliched, And it so
happened that in my neighborhood. There was a Country Women's
Association course on how to make the perfect scone, and
I thought, that's the most Australian thing I can.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Know, Amelia. It's very with love Megan of you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I think it's when you just say course, how long?
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Is it a weekly thing?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Oh? Did you have? It was a very rigorous three
hours and we had to get involved with the making
of the scones. But I learned a lot of really
fascinating things.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Okay, please please tell us I do love U scne?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Can I just put that out of there?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Love us gone? Did you bring any I did not
because I ate them all. We made pumpkin. We made
a savory SCN with cheese and olive. The best cheese
mixer of SCN is parmesan and cheddar half half, and
we made a regular SCN. And then we made a
lemonade scan which I'm going to make with my kids
because they're really easy.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Have you heard a lemonade? S gone?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It's just lemonade, flour and cream.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
Really yummy.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I thought you put cream on a SCN, not in
a skin.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
You can make it in the scon So the main
thing I want to leave you with because the big,
big thing she said about how to make the perfect
scne is you do not twist. Let me explain. When
you are cutting the scon out of your dough, there's
a temptation, there's a temptation to twist the cutter into
the dough.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I do
with Plato.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
You must never twist. It inhibits the skon's ability to rise,
and to me, it's full potential.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Jesse, you can't inhibit the scone.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Never twist, Never twist.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I'm undermining as a foundation needs to be free.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Okay, do you have any other questions for.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Me in terms of the tray, Like how close are
we're putting the scones together?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Good question. They should not be touching. This is a
common misconception of fact. I heard from someone in the
office here who thought that you were meant to sort
of have them lightly kiss each other. No, I thought
they can in.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
A miss and tray me.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh, you've really upset everyone. Now you're not going to
be invited back. I think that Amelia and Brent Holly's
Brent who won the scone competition's gone off. Yeah, I
think that there should be a competition, except.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
It's just no, I'm going to win because I'm going
to leave you with a couple more tips. Keep everything
cold so you don't need to sift flower, which is
great because I never truly understood how to sift flower.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I never understood the purpose.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
I didn't know that the purpose is so you don't
have lumpskys well anyway, keep it in the freezer and
you never have to sift together again. Keep your flower
in the freezer. And another thing is that when you've
made the scones and you've put them on the baking tray,
whipping into the fridge for a little bit, then turn
the oven on so they get a little bit of
a chill before you get them in the ovens.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Few more steps and I'm happy.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
The final tip that I want to leave you with,
and this is important, you cannot overmix. It's a lazy
girl taking exercise, which is also.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
The role apparently doves for cookies. Yeah you want to.
I think that maybe you're not meant to with cookies.
You're like, they're really good when you take them, go.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
What a bit rubbery?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, it just doesn't let them rise and then cream
and jam. I want to see if we have thoughts
on what goes first.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Okay, I think jam goes first.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I would think cream and then jam as the top
er off for us.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
So it turns out that the reason why people are
even putting jam on top is because of Instagram. Like
this is like like it's always been understood you're meant
to put the jam on first and then the cream.
This is a cwa's doctrine, and I am inclined to
believe them on everything, including scones. But they speculate that
because we now want to make everything pretty for social media,
(41:00):
that's why there's been this pernicious shift towards putting the
jam on top of it. It's like porn. It's like porn.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Be honest, I don't be food porn, but like the
reason that there are certain things that you see in porn,
like no pubic care, is because it looks better on camera.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
That's so much like nouns.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
It's like, Scott, I don't know what the CWA would
endorse that, but let's let's run with it.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Maybe they of course for that, Probably not they probably
they don't.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
A big thank you to all of you the out loud.
It's fun. It's been so much fun that might come by.
We might we might even invite you for listening to
today's show and our fabulous team.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
For me interrupting you.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
No, not really. Look, I've missed your energy. I've missed
your mayor energy. You're well behaved today, you were, you
were prepared.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
My best foot forward.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
You've got a good energy. You're allowed back. Friends, don't
forget you. You think I should keep in you just
keep interrupting, don't you.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
One at a time, you compared SCons to porn. I
don't think that's her being on good behavior.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
You can watch us on YouTube. Have you've been watching
us on YouTube?
Speaker 5 (42:05):
Man?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
I have?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Actually, how do we look? I've got some notes? No,
you look great.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Thank you will be back in your ears.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Tomorrow before we go, though. If you're feeling that pressure
of the end of the year, and I know it's coming,
you might enjoined last Wednesday's episode. It's related. We talked
about the great lock in. This is a phrase I'm
using all the time now, and I used it with
my babysitter and she was so impressed that I knew
this phrase. So listen to that. And here's a little
taste of it.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Lucking guys, Stacy, are you locking in?
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Can I lock it out? Get me out, leave me
on the outside. I just feel like this is like
New Year's Resolutions rebranded, except we have to do them
every quarter, and I'm just like, I've failed already ten days.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Into the month. I don't want to do it. I
don't want to do it. But how fundamentally resent having
to think about the year in terms of quarters? I
am an accountant, Yes, Amelia?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
How about like, are you going to run a marathon?
Are you training for?
Speaker 5 (43:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:03):
You know that, Jesse. That's so funny that you asked
me that. I am just trying to go to exercise
classes and stay silent during them. That's just my goal here.
It was really interesting chat. And we'll pop a link
to that episode in the show notes. I guarantee you
will be using it a lot. Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Shout out to any Mum and MAA subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to Mom and Maa is the very best way
to do so. There's a link in the episode description
You're listening to a Mother and Mere podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to mum mea out loud What women are actually
talking about on Monday, the fifteenth of September. I am
Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm me and Friedman because hollywaen Right is sick.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Amelia Last.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And here's what's on our agenda for today. The assassination
of Charlie Kirk in broad daylight, the aftermath and what
it all means.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Plus Prince Harry went back to the UK last week
and it has changed everything.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
And what is a mayor walk? And can doing one
transform my mood? But first we have to talk about
Charlie Kirk. I just want to obviously start by saying
how horrifying it was to hear, and a lot of
out louders will have seen or will have had people
in their household, friends and family and kids who saw
(01:02):
the whole footage of a thirty one year old man
being a sated in front of thousands of people in
broad daylight while he was talking on a college campus.
And I didn't actually know who Charlie Kirk was, and
so I was trying to I felt like I was
playing catch up because I was like, what just happened?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Who is this guy?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
And my teenagers were like, you don't know who Charlie
Kirk is?
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, No.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
He was very familiar to young people because he was
all over TikTok and had started this movement where he
sort of goes on college campuses and debates people. But
I didn't know who he was, and so all I
was reeling from was the shock. And my kids friends
were messaging them telling them to be careful on social
media because some of their friends had seen the full video.
(01:50):
I've got friends with primary school age children who saw
it because within you know, seemingly minutes of the attack,
it was circulating everywhere. Every second reel you would see
on TikTok and every second Instagram post was this incredibly
violent footage of a man being murdered.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Essentially, how did you guys feel when you heard?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Well?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I think I had two reactions. It was really upsetting
to think about this man who has two young children
being killed and seeing that footage is something that is
really hard to take. But then the second thing that
was why it really hit me is because it's an
act of political violence. And remember when Trump was almost
assassinated a year ago, there was an attempt on his life.
(02:29):
When I heard that news, I burst into tears because
there's something so uniquely disturbing about the idea of someone
being killed for what they say, and it makes us
all feel unsafe.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think I agree with you. I found it really shocking.
I found the way that the events transpired sort of
in real time from the other side of the world,
quite unusual, in that we had the President of the
United States declaring him dead before anyone else knew that
was the case. We'd seen the footage, people didn't know
(03:03):
if he died or not.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And then by the time I came to the story,
it was all you must have been up earlier than
I was here.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You did know who Charlie Kirk was.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, I was very familiar with Charlie Kirk. He's been
all over my Instagram and TikTok for twelve months. As
you say, he's thirty one. He's widely credited as the
guy who is very much responsible for getting the younger
vote to galvanize around Trump. There is a very convincing
argument that Trump would not have been elected if it
weren't for child.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I did not know that he was that significant.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, and so Charlie Kirk, just to give you a
little bit more background, he was not simply a conservative influencer,
like he was in with Donald Trump and in with
Donald Trump's family. So do you remember the false reports
about eating family pets Haitians eating family pets around the
time of one of the debates.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
The dog.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, So Charlie Kirk was instrumental in perpetuating that myth,
Like he was so on the Internet that he had
the power to basically go, this is the story we're
going to tell, and he handle he was.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Which was a completely untrue.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Story, completely untrue. So he basically had a handle on
the young conservative movement and in terms of getting Trump
in office in both twenty sixteen and twenty twenty four,
there's a through line with Charlie Kirk, like he started
up in twenty twelve and was like, let's make conservative
politics cool again. Let's go and own the Libs. And
(04:30):
he was able to galvanize this whole generation of people
and be like, we're for real American values. Hahna. Social
media in a way that was very new, and this
debate platform that we were talking about a few months
ago he popularized that lately. Yes, he was the guy.
That's what Turning Point USA is, which he co founded.
(04:51):
It was about educating young people on conservative values.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So can I ask, because you say that he's been
in your algorithm for a year now, I guess that's
because you're watching these videos. That's why he keeps popping up.
And what is it about him that inspired such strong connections?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I would always stop because I found it so infuriating.
And it was because it was like he thought that
because he spoke really fast and used lots of words
in the same vein as someone like Ben Shapiro, who
is the facts, don't care about your feelings conservative guy,
that he was owning someone and showing out the hypocrisy
and the weakness of their argument. But really he was
(05:27):
just talking really really loud over the top of people.
To me, it was such an indictment on the state
of debate. Like, I found it incredibly depressing. But he
also came up in a lot of conversations I have
with friends because every now and then they'd go, ah,
did he kind of make a good point about this thing?
Because he could be very, very persuasive, but he was
(05:48):
arguing for really dangerous, really upsetting political views. The idea
that he would be assassinated for speaking, you know, his
beliefs was just I can't think of another word other
than shocking. And a lot of people felt the need
to say this, but like, I don't think I've ever
(06:09):
agreed with a word that Charlie Kirk has said, and
I've actually seen a lot of them. But that doesn't
mean that political violence or that someone losing their life
for what they're saying is allowed. And I think I
found it. There were two sides. There was the holding
him up as a martyr, and then there was barely
the news had dropped. I don't even think his kids
(06:31):
would have barely known what had happened to him yet,
and there was glee. It was such a uniquely Internet moment.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
What made me so shocked was the butt I disagree
with you. I don't think there was two sides. I
think there was probably three, because there was the people
who were just like, this is just terrible, and I
would put myself in that camp.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I think those people didn't post, well.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
No, but why do you have to post? This is
what made me feel so heartsick. Apart from the human
heartsick story of a father with two children, age one
and three, and a wife who it's unclear whether she
was there or she wasn't there, but it doesn't matter.
It's been televised globally essentially via the internet. Firstly, why
(07:12):
does everybody have to come on social media and make
a statement like what is that about? Secondly, the people
who come on and say this is bad, but I
didn't agree with what he said, or but sometimes violence
is necessary. I saw some people say but sometimes violence
is necessary. These are respectable mainstream commentators. You know why
(07:36):
when is violence necessary?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You Know what I notice more than anything this weekend
is that there's something really interesting about who people are
talking to. The extremes are talking to each other, and
if you're not exposed to one extreme, it looks like
someone is staring at the sky, shaking their fist, saying
something that doesn't make sense. It's like, why is the
butt necessary? The reason why people went that way is
because on the other side you saw the reaction of
(08:01):
conservatives in the US. It was as though this man
was some kind of messiah, and he was someone who
lacked empathy throughout his life, and he was someone who
defended gun ownership, and he was someone who had said,
we're going to have a few regret.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
About if this matters.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Can we just agree that we don't kill people if
we disagree with what they stand for, or what they say,
or what they believe. My exhaustion and my despair at
the last few days has been, you know exactly what's
going to happen. Some people are going to celebrate it,
then there's going to be opinions written, and then there'll
be backlash to the opinions and hot takes of hot takes,
(08:39):
and everyone will try to cancel each other if you
say something, what should you say? And it's like, firstly,
you don't need to say anything, and secondly, you can
just say this is tragic. Can we all agree that
we don't kill people that we disagree with.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
This reminds me a little bit mea of when school
shootings happen and we're told that we're not allowed to
politicize them. And now it's not the time to talk
about gun control because that would be somehow desecrating the
memory of these children who were gunned down by weapons
that should never have been available to ordinary citizens.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Do you know what I've also thought about so much
is that this culture And we've noticed as people who've
been online for you know, getting close to two decades
now and writing opinion at the beginning, you know, in
the twenty tens, early twenty tens, people would say I
disagree with you. You know, there would be opinion sites and
other people would have opinions. It then became over the
(09:34):
last sort of five to ten years, you need to
delete it, take it down, apologize for what you said,
because this feeling of having an opinion out there that
you didn't agree with became so intolerable to a generation.
And it was part of cancel culture as well. Right,
So someone said something you didn't agree with. It's not
I disagree with this person and you debate them or
(09:56):
you choose not to engage with them anymore. It's they
need to be punished, they need to be canceled or
wiped out.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
But that's coming from both sides of me. I agree,
I agree this is Happeningvative forces in the US are
gathering to make lists of everyone who said things about this.
I agree, they didn't think.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Were And to me, it's not a left and right.
To me, it's our culture. Well, of the Internet of
if I disagree.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
With you, you.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Can't exist, and that is a through line to assosciation,
which is terrifying.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't know. I think that they might be disparate issues,
because what I worry about is we look at this
and go, oh, it's it's left and right. It's the
progressives on the internet have lost their mind. Hang on,
we know very little about the person who did this.
One man shot that bullet, and he will have had
a motive and an upbringing and was very pro guns
and all of that. And I do not like holding
(10:45):
a whole political spectrum to account for an act of
very specific political violence. You're allowed to go online and
criticize someone, absolutely, go for it. I mean, Charlie Kirk
did that, as was he's right. But political violence, we
know begets political violence. I think that's what's scary.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
And I think that you said something before, Jesse, that
we need to talk more about, which is that this
was a very online event. And Mia, you directed my
attention to an Instagram post from doctor Raymond Nichols. He wrote,
you were never meant to witness someone's final breath and
then laugh at a TikTok. You weren't built for that.
Your soul wasn't designed to hold that kind of weight
(11:22):
and then move on like it's nothing.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I think that part of the shock. This sounds sort
of ridiculous, but I thought about how many videos had
popped up of Charlie Kirk, and often I watched the
whole thing. I was trying to understand it. That man's
face had become very familiar to me. To watch that
man die was an incredibly confronting thing because of the
level of familiarity I suppose so many of us had,
(11:45):
and the reaction. You can look at the reaction from
all sides. I heard some journalists talking about it, and
journalists knew him as a man. They'd sat with him,
and they traveled with him, and he was a flesh
and blood person who some people liked, some people didn't.
And the fact that even after he died, it was
like for some people that wasn't an I just went
(12:08):
the man isn't breathing anymore.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah, Like, don't you think that's a result of dehumanizing
people in the first place.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah. And in terms of the political violence, begetting political violence,
people are scared.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I think it's also about the fact that people are.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Scared, terrified. I mean if I was getting up on
stage and that sounds ridiculous, but I think that the
media class is kind of having this moment of if
we live in a culture where you can't sit on
stage and say what you think, we'll.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Look at Salmon Rushti.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah, it wasn't that long ago that someone tried to
murder him.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
But also the building up of him as a martyr,
which is happening right now. I mean people are scared,
Like ordinary Americans who don't speak into microphones for a
living are scared because when you build someone up as
a martyr and then you say that the martyr has
been killed, it leaves you to wonder what actions will
be taken as a result of that.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, and to your point before, Amelia, about this happening
across the spectrum. Three months ago, Melissa Hortman, who was
a Democrat and her husband was shot and killed in
their home. Now President Donald Trump refused to say her name.
In the past, when Jay k was assassinated, when Martin
Luther King was assassinated, there was at least this sense
of like we can stand here as a political class,
(13:14):
hold hands and say we disavow this across the spectrum,
this does not happen. But now you get the but
what about thing because a moment like this happens and
you have Elon Musk right, the left is the party
of murder. Like that's just not I agreeful.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
And I think back to what you said Jesse before
about there were two groups of people. This all comes
down to the algorithm and the internet. I think that
the reason it can feel so demoralizing being online and
make you despair is that you do only see the
extremes and they are not symbolic of how most people
(13:52):
feel about anything.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
And the problem was, we see the extremes. We saw
this happen, and maybe that's why it was such a
big deal. Do you think, because in some ways this
feels like a bigger deal than when the Trump assassination
attempt happen.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
The reason I heard someone say that it felt like
a bigger deal, and I'm not American and I wouldn't know,
but maybe you can speak to this, Amelia, is that
there is a tragically a blueprint for attempted assassinations or
assassinations of American presidents. You know, there was JFK, there
was the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan, the attempted assassination
(14:27):
of Trump. That's why it was like, it was shocking,
but it wasn't surprising, the attempted assassination of Trump. Charlie Kirk,
As far as I understand, Jesse, he wasn't a political candidate.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
He didn't hold office.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
He had no actual impact on the leavers of government,
unlike someone say, even Anelon Musk, who was actually in
there doing things.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
At the behatal.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
He was powerful, but he was influential exactly. He was influential.
And the people that said this is what made my
blood curdle is that the people who were like, sometimes
violence is necessary, and I'm like, what, so, it's necessary
if you disagree with the person. But then if someone
uses that justification because they disagree with you to be
(15:10):
violent against you, Suddenly, oh no, it's only necessary when
I disagree with the person's views, and that that's not
a democracy.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
That's You've christiz for me as to why this is
such a big deal. Why we're talking about this on
a Monday when it happened on a Thursday on the
other side of the world, And it's because he was
famous and was killed because of his words. He wasn't
in office, he didn't have actions to criticize or condemn.
He just had words.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
This is why we protest, and this is why we speak,
and this is why we debate, and we do all
of those things. And in the course of a debate,
you can entirely lack empathy. And I want to sort
of acknowledge space for that, because Charlie Kirk did dehumanize
a lot of people, he did hurt a lot of people.
But just because he lacked empathy doesn't mean that in
the wake of his death we need to like, that's
(16:01):
not how I.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Know unless you believe that words of violence. And then
the logic all through line is that, well, if someone's
been violent to me with their words, I can be
violent to them with a gun.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And that's a terrifying.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Reality in a moment, how Harry's trip to the UK
has suddenly changed everything. The Duchess of Sussex's jams have
been arriving on us doorsteps this week and last week.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I have an unpopular opinion. I think they're too cheap.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
How much are they They're nine dollars and I think, yeah,
I think it's seven dollars postage.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But like with all this fuss, I reckon.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
I mean, I wouldn't have bought them, but I think
she could have sold them for like thirty dollars.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I completely agree. Agree, is there expensive postage?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Seven dollars?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Apparently there was some twine and some dried lavender on it, so.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Okay, that was just a little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It makes it film mass produced. I completely agree. And
I don't know if you heard this or even if
it made it into the cup for Friday's episode, but
you know, we spoke to a tower card reader on
Friday and one of our questions was whether Holly will
ever get her hands on a jam.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I think there's a lot of it available now.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't know how hard she get in Australia Maya,
and she said she will get the jam, but maybe
not the jam.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
That she wanted. It might be, which isn't that how
life goes? So this is not about the jam. Prince
Harry's had a really good couple of days. Let me explain.
He took a thirty six hour trip to Kiev in
Ukraine over the weekend and he was promoting his Invictus
Games foundation there, but Before that, he went to the.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
UK for a few days and had a balloon animal
sword fight with a small child.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Oh so sel photos. He went, He visited sick children,
He got out and about in the community. He was smiling,
he was laughing. The UK press called it old Harry
is back again, because you know, he's only been to
the UK recently for lawsuits and has looked very dow
funerals and funerals.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
So was he in the UK as part of an
Invictus Games thing too, I'm just wondering.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
No, it was essentially a little unofficial royal visit. So
he went in part because he really wanted to meet
with his dad and it was unclear whether he was
going to And if you recall last week on the show,
I cited some reporting that said that his dad was
not going to meet with him. And the reason why
his dad was not going to meet with him is
because his other son, William has absolutely next this. He
(18:22):
says he's not allowed to meet with Harry. It's sort
of the same as Prince Andrew. Once you're out, you're out,
you can't be let back in. He said unforgivable things
about Kate. He implied that Kate was racist about his
children's skin color.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And that she was cold.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I've got a lot of sympathy for this idea because
can you imagine, given that so many private conversations were
relaid both in the Netflix documentary that harn Meghan did
and in Spare his memoir, like even meeting with Charles,
I think trust would be very much in tatters.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, and you know, I don't think it's unusual when
there are two children to sort of play off each
other to their parents. I remember once you and me
were talking about how fun it is to complain about
our sibling to our parents and then to see whether
or not they agree with you.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
And complain to our sibling about our parents exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So all of this has said that he didn't know
whether he was going to get to meet with him. Well,
guess what. Charles was coming down to London from Balmoral
for his weekly cancer treatment and he met with Harry.
This is a huge deal. They have not met since
February twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Do we know where they met?
Speaker 4 (19:27):
They met at Clarence House's house and the perhaps were
tipped off by the Palace to show Harry driving.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
In in his range.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Driver now apparently they really pulled out all the stops.
Harry has a beloved chocolate biscuit cake that Charles made
sure was laid out for him. Clearly this was a
real attempt by both sides to repair things.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
So the queen had this tradition of afternoon tea diplomacy
where if she really wanted something or she really wanted
someone to make them feel special, she would lay on
the full English afternoon tea with the proper sandwiches. And
she loved a bit of cake. So there was this
special cake that she would have, this chocolate biscuit cake,
which is quite as really good does and Harry loves it.
(20:12):
So there was a lot of people were saying, well,
when Harry goes, if he gets the chocolate biscuit cake
that is like the real symbol of an olive branch,
except in chocolate cake.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Form, and he got it tasty. So the question is why.
The question is why Charles went against the heir to
the throne and his eldest son's stated wish to meet
with his Maverick younger son, who has also not said
very nice things about him in the past. So why
did Charles do this? Mea what's your theory.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I had no theories. There's two that are going around.
There's a newsletter call the Royalists that I read by
a royal reporter called Tom Sykes, which I'm getting so
much value out of.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He has said that.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
The media is very focused on the split between Charles
and Harry, but what no one's really noticed is the
split between Charles and William. And he said that's the
big story because Charles believes that William is lazy, essentially
because he does not have nearly as many public engagements.
So even though Charles has been having cancer treatment for
(21:13):
the past twelve months, he's done one hundred and seventy
five engagements. But William has been very clear about family
first and wellness first, and Charles is of the queen thinking,
which is duty first. You never put anything above your
duty as a royal.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
And by the way, there's another dynamic land on top
of that, which is that William thinks he's going to
modernize the monarchy and he gets so fed up with
how Charles is very stuffy and he likes wearing his uniforms,
and he thinks this is all like very old fashioned,
and he thinks that putting his family first is showing
that he's doing a lot to modernize the monarchy.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
He's like, let's make the monarchy cool again.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So do you think that maybe Harry and Charles had
a little bit of a bitch about William.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I think Charles would have probably been more discreet than that,
because you know, you don't trust.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Harry, right, yeah, but you know with your mum you like, yeah, no,
you don't go full into it. You see how fire
you kind of go. How's William? Oh? Has he been
working hard?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
It's not a lot of engagements.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
That's true, And it's funny when Harry was in London
last week, suddenly Kate and William filled their diary with
some more engagements.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Did you read the profile in the Guardian about the
interview that he interviewed?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
And so he took a Guardian journalist with him on
this trip to Ukraine, which is really interesting. He's got
two new media advisors. What did you think of that.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Interviewinating so number one with the Guardian, which they even
say at the side of the article, this is a
really weird choice to have the Guardian go with him,
because the Guardian is a very openly Republican media outlets.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So is he he hates the monarchy too.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And then the second thing that's interesting about him going
to Ukraine. This is his second trip to Ukraine since
Russia's invasion, William has not been at all. William is
desperate to go, but because he's the heir to the throne,
they've said that it's not safe for him to go.
So there's been reporting that he was incredibly rankled by
the fact that Harry gets to go and show his
(23:11):
valor and his bravery stepping through the bombed out buildings,
and William just has to hang around on the Estonian
border with Russia because he's not allowed to go into Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I thought this was I thought of all the things
Harry and he's Montecito home with his la wife and.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
All of that.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I just thought of all the things he could do.
He doesn't need to be in Ukraine, like he doesn't
does no. I know he's got the Invictors games, but
I actually really respect his commitment to that cause. And
I read about him and he had this great quote
about like nobody should feel embarrassed or ashamed about their disabilities,
and it's about flipping from sympathy to admiration and respect,
(23:49):
like it's just a cause that's so consistent with him
and his life and his military experience. And I just
read that and I got to the end and went, yeah,
people really respect you because you kind of do know
what you're talking about, and you've chosen this cause and
stick with it.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
He also gave a million pounds to a charity in
the UK, and a lot of people thought this was
a little bit ghosh to give this amount of money.
But then Americans pointed out, who were very comfortable talking
about money, that William's Earthshot Prize, which also gives a
cash prize out to people, isn't even funded by William.
It's funded by private donors. So in other words, Harry
(24:22):
is putting his money where his mouth is in a
way that William is not.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
I can see how galling it would be for William
because Harry, and this is why the Queen was so
uneasy and vetoed Harry and Meghan's request to be part
time royals, because when you're half in, half out, he
gets to come and do these quasi royal tours. It
looks like a royal walks like a royal smells like
(24:47):
a royal but isn't officially royal, So that helps him
make commercial deals back in America because he's this pretend royal,
but he's not governed by any of the limitations of
being royal. So, for example, William can't go and do
what he does in Ukraine because it's too much of
a security risk.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Right and yet Megan, on the shortbread biscuits that went
out in the US this week, apparently on the packaging,
it says, these remind me of my time living in
the UK when I used to have tea and biscuits.
And you know, she's playing off this idea that these
are the biscuits that she probably hate at Buckingham Palace.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Speaking of Megan, she has given Harry some very good
advice that came through in the Guardian interview. So Harry
only mentions her once, but says that she tells him
that telling the truth is the most efficient way to leave.
I love that and now he lives by that.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I think that's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I think it's brilliant. She's so wise, our Meghan, and
I thought I could do it a little of that.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Remember when she said she didn't google him before they
were sorry the Guardian article. Did you read it, Jessea, Yeah,
I forget. So he is really.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
At pains in that to say, yes, I missed the UK,
but I also love my life in the US. And
people have been saying that he's been looking very miserable lately,
so maybe he's unhappy, but he was really at pains
to paint his life in the US is one that
he's very fulfilled in. Do you feel like that was
doth protest too much? Or did it feel convincing to you?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Totally convincing, totally convincing that he is not to love
and that they kind of said, oh, you know, you
whinge and yeah, someone who's always got something to complain about.
But he was saying everything I've spoken about is just
getting my version of what was already on the record
out there. It was a rite of reply and now
I've said it. He does seem happy, he does seem light.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
But here is where we need to move into rampant
speculation and mea, I want your thoughts on this. He
clearly wants in on some kind of royal or quasi
royal existence. He's been missing the shaking of hands and
the jousting with sick kids, and he wants some of that.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
He wants to be on the balcony.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
It's not clear Meghan wants that. In fact, I would
say that Megan feels much more comfortable doing exactly what
she's doing, which is pursuing a more traditional American or
Hollywood conception of celebrity. Or you do the TV shows
and then you sell associated branded products. These two intentions
are in conflict with each other.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Disagree because I think that what makes Meghan, the only
thing that makes Meghan different from any other influencer is
the Dutchess part. So they need the royal adjacency to
make money in the US and to retain their power,
and their income is directly linked to that royal adjacency.
(27:25):
If they're just Harry and Meghan, well you know, then
they're the same as like poshen Becks or any old
famous albeit world famous couple. There were two things in
that interview that really jumped out at me. The first
was when he said the next year is all about
my father. I'm like, okay, well, Charles is sicker than
we thought. And the second thing was the last line
(27:46):
where the journalist talked about how popular he is in Ukraine,
and because there's so many people who've got disabilities in
Ukraine who've been injured in the war, he's hugely famous
because of his Invictors games work right, and so he
was like mobbed in Ukraine. And the journalist recounted to
Harry that he'd asked one of the people, why do
you like him so much? And they said, oh, it's
just dis great royal. But he seems to do things
(28:08):
his own way. And when he said that to Harry,
Harry said, you know who else did their things their
own way? My mum. And I was like, oh, the
feeling that William and Harry must have in who has
claimed to Diana's legacy, because Harry has written so much
about his devastation and Diana and Diana and he is
(28:30):
like her in a lot of way, and William hasn't.
And there's this idea that somehow William wasn't affected by
her loss and isn't still affected by her loss, just
because he doesn't emote in that kind of American way.
You'd have to say that William, and I guess he could,
but that's not really the vibe of the monarch and
(28:51):
future monarch.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
It's such a funny and U forbidding family. There was
some other news last week. Paul Barrow, Diana's former butler.
He wrote something about the last days of Queen Elizabeth's
life and he had some inside sources there. And apparently
she didn't even tell her family that she being diagnosed
with cancer. She told her ladies in waiting, and she
told people around her, but she was concerned that as
(29:12):
she told the family, they'd say, you got to get
off the throne and we're going to put in a
regency ruling until you pass. And I just can't imagine
being in a family where you have to decide if
it's strategically okay for you to mention that you're dying.
MM after the.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Break, why you need to start going on mayor walks?
And I'm going to reveal who at this table is
an absolute expert in them.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Do you want daily outloud access? Why wouldn't you?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Muma
MEA subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to
get us in your ears five days a week, and
a huge thank you if you're already a subscriber.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
If you're feeling a bit flat, bit isolated, bit lonely.
A woman named Anna Syrian wants you to try what
she has termed the mayor walk. The writer she has
a substat called ambitious Softy says what she does is
she walks into the hub of her local neighborhood. So
think your local cafe, right, and she sets a challenge
(30:15):
for herself to embody the energy of a small town mayor. Right,
what does that look like? You have to assume everyone
is happy to see you. You have to make eye
contact with all dogs and all babies. You must carry
a warmth and lightness out in the community for specifically
ten to twenty minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
She's said, right, that amount of time is doable.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Is your limit?
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
She says this is the best way that she's managed
to make connections in her small community. Amelia, would you
say you have mayor energy?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Absolutely not. I think I have spoken on this podcast
about how my neighbors in my apartment building complain to
the strata that I was not friendly enough.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
But that is I feel like something what happened to me?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
But that is I think why I adore this. It's
a challenge, like even to do it for ten to
twenty minutes. It's scared me a little bit, and that's
how I know I must do it. So I tried
it this morning. I got on the bus and I
said good morning to the bus driver and then he
said something unintelligible back to me. But I felt like
I'd set off on the right foot and I'm going
to try this. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Can you try it in your own house?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I think the home could do with some maor energy
because you maya to call you out, you have mad
small town mayor energy in the office.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So what happens is this is how I imagine it going.
You get in the lift, you take a deep breath,
you close your eyes, you have a moment, you go
turn on the math, and then you walk out of
the lift. And because you happen to own this business,
you don't get to walk in like a MILLIONA and
I do where we put our heads down and hide
in the barthroend. You've got to have some kind of
present and you walk in and you have your queen
(31:58):
wave that you do to people. Yes, and they.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Don't got queen waves.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Oh sorry, you're shaking hands.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
You're not actually shaking people's heads and wave that's what
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And then you're going you have your prepared small talk,
you start touching people's clothes questionable.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Maybe whether that's my version of over the.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Wave yep, And then you just go, how's your weekend?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Da?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Da da, And you are like this this socialite that
turns it on ten to twenty minutes. And then you
go and hide in your office and when you see me,
you're like high like because you know you don't have
to go full mayor on me. But not the mayor
view to other people. I think that people who own businesses, wow,
have to turn on the.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Mayor, do you know?
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And also people who work in the service industry. Oh
when when you're in any way customer facing and you've
just nailed why I'm so tired, Because I've often said
when I'm at work, I feel the responsibility to walk
the floor so people can see me. I've got to
be interested in everyone, and I genuinely am.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
You must embrace babies. If there's a baby in the office,
it is like you must hold the baby. Make a fast.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
When you're the mayor or the owner of a business,
you know that people's interactions with you carry weight, and
if you are in a bad mood or distracted or
absent or whatever, they can take that personally in a
way that they might not if you're a regular coworker.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's like being in front of house.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, it's almost like being a little bit famous, right,
because everyone knows who you are, even if you don't
know who they are yet, because it might be their
first day, right, and like you haven't met them before,
but you've got to give them a memorable experience because
the mayor.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
This reminds me that I had a boss at a
magazine I used to work out who was quite famous,
and he's not an a winter or famous, but he's
up there for journalists. And his strategy was he would
walk around the office once a day, and you knew
that he'd come and see you, and you kind of
wanted to prepare for it by putting something on your
desk to start the conversation, because the one thing you
(33:53):
couldn't be was boring. So you might put a book
on your desk, or you might put a new snack
or some kind of offering to the boss on his
male walk so that when he came round to see
you you had something to riff on, and then you'd
make that connection as he went on his walk.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
That's genius, because I think people can become very anxious
when they have to talk to the mayor, because I
think it's not just business owners, but it's also managers.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I remember when.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
My boss used to come into my office when I
worked in magazines. I would always have like sporting equipment,
not actual sport equipment, but like there'd be an umbrella
that he would pretend was a golf club, or they'd
be like a ball that he could like throw in
the garbage bin, and that sort of facilitated his mayoral experience.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I have found that I've gone a bit full mayor
when I'm with Luna throughout the commit Like when I
was just on my own, I could just walk through
and be anonymous or whatever. But when I'm with Luna,
I almost want to present the world as this open,
exciting everyone's our friend, and I turn into a different
version of myself because I want to model what a kind, good,
(34:56):
engaged person looks like, which is entirely performative, Like I've
got to go all right, let's put on my acting hat.
So The other day, I took Leona. It was a
really cold day. We were hanging out the morning. We
walked past this guy I see all the time. I
say high to him, who is currently homeless, and we
stopped and I went, would you like a coffee? Let's
go and get this maun of coffee loner, and I thought,
(35:16):
and that was for Luna, Like I'd like to believe
that I'm a kind person. But I went, Luna needs
to see her mum being a mayor. And so when
on board it, she tried to steal the bickie off
the top and I went, no, no, no, that's not
good form, Luna, we're being the mayor, went and gave
it to him, and I was like, this is how
I should behave every single day, Like it makes you
feel so good about yourself because you're connected with the community.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
All the studies show that happiness comes from interactions that
you have with acquaintances or strangers. Yeah, the friendships and
the relationships, those are the draining ones.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
That's why so many of us suffered during COVID drive
because we didn't have we were deprived of those interactions.
Do you remember when we were finally let out of
our houses and we would have these long conversations with
strangers in like queues or on buses. I think it's
so interesting this idea of a mayor walk because a
mayor is different to a royal and different to a celebrity.
(36:07):
Because a mayor is accessible and a mayor is relatable
and accountable.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
And of service.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
You're of service.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
So I also think I think this is why I
hate having birthday parties, because you have to put on
your mayor hand. Oh and the thing about this that
I loved was I've got ten to twenty minutes, maybe
twelve minutes in me a full mayor mode.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You're right hosting a party, you have to be a mayor.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I hate because the thing is I have a birthday
party and you invite all your friends there, and I'm like,
I can't do three.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Do you know what it's worth? Kids' birthday parties where
you're unclear on the name of any of the people
you've invited to know, how can you be the mayor.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
When you don't know people's name and it just goes
on and on. It's like, I feel as though you
do ten minutes, you set it up, and then everyone
else you know what you need a sub in mayor.
You need to then go here's a baton. Now you
be the mayor, because I can't.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Suspect I've got it.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
My best tip for mayor's if you find yourself in
a mayor situation.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Great to see you.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Great to see you.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Not nice to meet you because maybe you've met before
and you've forgotten.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Really, it's great to see you.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
See do you think this whole conversation people have thought
we're talking about the male horse, female horse? Is it
a female horse?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
My biggest takeaway is that mea thinks an umbrella is
sporting equipment. Before we go, I have gone full domestic
goddess and I want to share it with you. I
know how to make a scone according to the Country
Women's Association, as you know, are the experts on this.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Did you do a course?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
A course this weekend? Sorry, of course she does.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Such unusual things, Amelia.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
This weekend I had a friend visiting from the US
and she has a baby and is very frazzled, and
I was trying to think of what's a really Australian
thing we can do that's not cliched, And it so
happened that in my neighborhood. There was a Country Women's
Association course on how to make the perfect scone, and
I thought, that's the most Australian thing I can.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Know, Amelia. It's very with love Megan of you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I think it's when you just say course, how long?
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Is it a weekly thing?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Oh? Did you have? It was a very rigorous three
hours and we had to get involved with the making
of the scones. But I learned a lot of really
fascinating things.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Okay, please please tell us I do love U scne?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Can I just put that out of there?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Love us gone? Did you bring any I did not
because I ate them all. We made pumpkin. We made
a savory SCN with cheese and olive. The best cheese
mixer of SCN is parmesan and cheddar half half, and
we made a regular SCN. And then we made a
lemonade scan which I'm going to make with my kids
because they're really easy.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Have you heard a lemonade? S gone?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It's just lemonade, flour and cream.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
Really yummy.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I thought you put cream on a SCN, not in
a skin.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
You can make it in the scon So the main
thing I want to leave you with because the big,
big thing she said about how to make the perfect
scne is you do not twist. Let me explain. When
you are cutting the scon out of your dough, there's
a temptation, there's a temptation to twist the cutter into
the dough.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I do
with Plato.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
You must never twist. It inhibits the skon's ability to rise,
and to me, it's full potential.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Jesse, you can't inhibit the scone.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Never twist, Never twist.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I'm undermining as a foundation needs to be free.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Okay, do you have any other questions for.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Me in terms of the tray, Like how close are
we're putting the scones together?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Good question. They should not be touching. This is a
common misconception of fact. I heard from someone in the
office here who thought that you were meant to sort
of have them lightly kiss each other. No, I thought
they can in.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
A miss and tray me.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh, you've really upset everyone. Now you're not going to
be invited back. I think that Amelia and Brent Holly's
Brent who won the scone competition's gone off. Yeah, I
think that there should be a competition, except.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
It's just no, I'm going to win because I'm going
to leave you with a couple more tips. Keep everything
cold so you don't need to sift flower, which is
great because I never truly understood how to sift flower.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I never understood the purpose.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
I didn't know that the purpose is so you don't
have lumpskys well anyway, keep it in the freezer and
you never have to sift together again. Keep your flower
in the freezer. And another thing is that when you've
made the scones and you've put them on the baking tray,
whipping into the fridge for a little bit, then turn
the oven on so they get a little bit of
a chill before you get them in the ovens.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Few more steps and I'm happy.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
The final tip that I want to leave you with,
and this is important, you cannot overmix. It's a lazy
girl taking exercise, which is also.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
The role apparently doves for cookies. Yeah you want to.
I think that maybe you're not meant to with cookies.
You're like, they're really good when you take them, go.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
What a bit rubbery?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, it just doesn't let them rise and then cream
and jam. I want to see if we have thoughts
on what goes first.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Okay, I think jam goes first.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I would think cream and then jam as the top
er off for us.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
So it turns out that the reason why people are
even putting jam on top is because of Instagram. Like
this is like like it's always been understood you're meant
to put the jam on first and then the cream.
This is a cwa's doctrine, and I am inclined to
believe them on everything, including scones. But they speculate that
because we now want to make everything pretty for social media,
(41:00):
that's why there's been this pernicious shift towards putting the
jam on top of it. It's like porn. It's like porn.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Be honest, I don't be food porn, but like the
reason that there are certain things that you see in porn,
like no pubic care, is because it looks better on camera.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
That's so much like nouns.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
It's like, Scott, I don't know what the CWA would
endorse that, but let's let's run with it.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Maybe they of course for that, Probably not they probably
they don't.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
A big thank you to all of you the out loud.
It's fun. It's been so much fun that might come by.
We might we might even invite you for listening to
today's show and our fabulous team.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
For me interrupting you.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
No, not really. Look, I've missed your energy. I've missed
your mayor energy. You're well behaved today, you were, you
were prepared.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
My best foot forward.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
You've got a good energy. You're allowed back. Friends, don't
forget you. You think I should keep in you just
keep interrupting, don't you.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
One at a time, you compared SCons to porn. I
don't think that's her being on good behavior.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
You can watch us on YouTube. Have you've been watching
us on YouTube?
Speaker 5 (42:05):
Man?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
I have?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Actually, how do we look? I've got some notes? No,
you look great.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Thank you will be back in your ears.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Tomorrow before we go, though. If you're feeling that pressure
of the end of the year, and I know it's coming,
you might enjoined last Wednesday's episode. It's related. We talked
about the great lock in. This is a phrase I'm
using all the time now, and I used it with
my babysitter and she was so impressed that I knew
this phrase. So listen to that. And here's a little
taste of it.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Lucking guys, Stacy, are you locking in?
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Can I lock it out? Get me out, leave me
on the outside. I just feel like this is like
New Year's Resolutions rebranded, except we have to do them
every quarter, and I'm just like, I've failed already ten days.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Into the month. I don't want to do it. I
don't want to do it. But how fundamentally resent having
to think about the year in terms of quarters? I
am an accountant, Yes, Amelia?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
How about like, are you going to run a marathon?
Are you training for?
Speaker 5 (43:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:03):
You know that, Jesse. That's so funny that you asked
me that. I am just trying to go to exercise
classes and stay silent during them. That's just my goal here.
It was really interesting chat. And we'll pop a link
to that episode in the show notes. I guarantee you
will be using it a lot. Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Shout out to any Mum and MAA subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to Mom and Maa is the very best way
to do so. There's a link in the episode description
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