July 26, 2024 • 50 mins
Is your family toxic? If you’re unsure, there’s a handy quiz to find out online. In this episode we discuss the rise in people cutting off family members from their lives and the complexities that come with doing so.
Plus… a really good Aussie celebrity beauty product, the Olympic adjacent doco everyone is talking about and a productivity classic - it’s our recommendations.
And we wrap up the week with our best and worst which include a different kind of outage, a groundbreaking new fashion trend and Luna’s latest skill.
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- Listen to our latest episode: The Shameful Sh*t That Keeps Us Up At Night
- Listen to Monday's episode: Joe Finally Listened (To Jill?)
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- Listen: The Mortifying Ways We Tried To Get Our Exes Back
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What To Read:
- Read: There's only one correct time to eat dinner.
- Read: 'It's not selfish or a trend': Why millennials are cutting off their parents.
- Read: 'You second guess yourself.' The unique pain of cutting off narcissistic parents.
- Read: 'After years of family trauma, I tried to talk to my mum. She said she needed a break from me.'
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CREDITS:
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Mia Freedman & Jessie Stephens
Producer: Emeline Gazilas
Audio Production: Leah Porges
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mama Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Do you guys say the story about the olympian who
chopped off his finger?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Oh, no, tell me about that. I saw it, but
I didn't really understand.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What I've done isomo clickbait of you, because like very hyperbolic.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
He didn't headline.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I was like, do you know what I immediately thought?
I was like, was it in the wood chopping? Wait?
I used to show.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, he's a hockey sports.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Fer.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Her to tell.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Us he injured the end of his finger, and he
knew that if he had to go to the Olympics
with this injury, then he wouldn't be able to compete
to compete in what so hockey? He's a hockey dude.
He got the end of his finger chopped off, as
in he professionally, professionally and like he had the on
advice medical advice or that kind of thing. Anyway, my
second cousin or some ship so I saw the story, right, yeah,
(01:11):
some Irish like mum's cousin or whatever. My mum keeps
being like, what are your cousins. There's a hockey player
for the Olympics, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And
then I saw this picture and I was like, I'm
pretty sure it's my bloody cousin.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Christmas next Christmas, Kansas. He reaches for the ham. Okay,
are we ready? Hello? And welcome to Mama Mia out
Loud and to our Friday show where we take a
break from the news cycle and breathe out. I have
(01:43):
nothing else happens like it would just be nice for
a while, wouldn't it. Today It's Friday, the twenty sixth
of July. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Me a Freedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And on the show today, is your family Toxic? If
you don't know, there's a handy quiz you can take
to find out online, Plus a really good Aussie celebrity
beauty product, the Olympic adjacent docco everyone is talking about,
and a productivity classic recommendations and best it was of
the week, including a different kind of outage, a groundbreaking
(02:15):
new fashion trend, and Luna's latest skill. But first, Mere Friedman.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
In case you missed it, there is only one correct
time to eat dinner and I've been doing it all along.
Forget seven thirty pm. The correct time to eat dinner
aligns with a toddler and according to the most acclaimed
restauranteurs across Sydney, this isn't just about when you eat
at home. The most popular dinner booking time is six pm.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Wow, that's early, isn't it. Apparently it's a big shift,
right because we used to eat much later we did.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Restaurant booking platforms have all confirmed this breaking news. One
platform claimed, based on the millions of reservations booked over
the last six months, six pm is the most popular
time for dining out, and more analysis showed that six
pm is our favorite time slot across Australia and five
pm is also offering the largest year on year growth.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
That's wild the bookings. Well, I read this article and
it said that they've had to bring forward opening times
because it used to be that seven thirty eight point
thirty were the most popular, and a big city like Sydney,
so they often wouldn't open till six. But they've had
to change their whole structure because now we're all kids.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I've heard a lot of people from overseas speaking recently
about how Australia shuts down too early, because they say,
if they've come from New York or London, they go
to go and have dinner at nine nine thirty and
everywhere is closed. When we were doing our live shows,
we'd come off stage at nine o'clock nine fifteen and
you couldn't find anywhere to go and get some food.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's the only time I've found it annoying because I've
noticed I've got a group of girlfriends and we go
out to dinner. We've got a standard booking and it's crept.
It started at six o'clock and it's crept. It's now
five thirty year. I don't know how. We were sitting
there the other night and a group of very elderly
ladies came in just as we were leaving home in
(04:09):
bed by seven thirty.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
The theory is COVID broke us, made us all want
to be home more, made us make cocktails at home,
made us do all that stuff more in the house.
So we've just shifted earlier and earlier. Also, we're not
working in the office as much, so it's not like, oh,
I won't be able to get out of the office
before half plus five. But I want to know, if
you're not in a restaurant, if you're just at home,
(04:32):
what time do you like to eat dinner?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
The correct time is seven thirty. I'm sorry, it just
is based on what based on my stomach, seven point
thirty is the time that universally it's the vibe.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
What about when you were growing up? What time did
you eat dinner when you were growing up? Seven? Probably?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, I think seven thirty feels late to me.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yes, yeah, it does because you're not finished till eight
and eight. You're you're edging towards bed.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But English we are six six because the.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Sun goes down at three. What's difficult, though, is then
a little baby comes along and all the advice I've
been going to the out loud as asking for advice
on my baby that throws all her food on the floor,
and they say you've got to sit down and eat
with her. I'm like, but she has dinner at five
point thirty and I'll.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Come and heat with her.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
That's still like, can she go to your restaurant looking
because no one's eating in our house.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
This is exactly when it all changes, right, because if
I'm allowed to just live my life how I want
to live my life. I'm a seven thirty person too.
Definitely I am, definitely and often later eight. It's not
good for you, apparently.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
No, I'm on to dessert by seventhing.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Often eight o'clock or later on the weekend. But when
my kids were small and everyone said you have to
eat together, I was like, I'm not eating at five.
I'm just not. Also, it's not practical for lots of
people who don't get home from work, so we always
had kids tea, then the kids go to bed, then
grown up seat. But the problem with that is that
pushes you later and later too.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
In my house, we sort of it's a bit like
a choose your own adventure. Just wandering into the kitchen
when you're hungry. That's always amazed me get something wonder off.
I want to know what I allowed to do.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I have two more theories as to why our dinner
keeps getting like comically early. One is the right of
this five am club bullshit.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh that's true.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
If you've got to be up at five, you've got
to be in bed by what nine or something, And
so I reckon that's why people are getting up earlier
and The second reason is lockout laws lack of night life.
So if you did want to have a night we
know there's nowhere to go, right, So if you have
an eight o'clock dinner and then it's just ten o'clock
and then what, it's not like you can go and
get a drink.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I have a different theory. I think it's because there's
lots of good stuff to watch on streaming.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, and that is one of the things that's floated
in this too, is that the COVID times that also
made us watch everything at home makes you want to
be home. Did you know that Elon Musk has fathered
twelve children? It's one of my favorite fat Does Elon
Musk know that he's jokes? Of course he does. Anyway,
A quick rundown of Musk's crew that we know about devastatingly. Actually,
(06:59):
he lost his first baby with his first wife, who's
a Canadian writer called Justin Wilson to SIDS at only
ten weeks old. They then went on to have twins
and then triplets vire IVF. I didn't know that. So
his oldest kids are those kids, the kids he had
with Justine Wilson. Then he had three kids with the
singer Grimes. And now he's had three kids with one
(07:20):
of his executives at Neuralink, which is one of his businesses,
called Chevon Zillis. So that's all the children.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Is he still with Chevon?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Who knows?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I don't know if they're with I don't think that's
a thing.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Oh, okay, all right, he don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
He tends to just inseminate them, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
He's not having a man. I don't think it's a
conventional arrangement. But I don't know that. But why am
I telling you this? I'm so glad you asked. It's
because at least one of his adult children have cut
him off legally filing to drop his name from THEIRS.
That's because his daughter, Vivian, who's twenty years old, is
trans and her father Elon refuses to recognize that fact,
(07:56):
and he's publicly stated recently that Vivian fell victim to
a woke mind virus. Okay, Elon. He's not alone in
being a high profile father whose children want nothing to
do with him, though Brad Pittstell to Shiloh, for example,
Tom Cruise's daughter. Sorry, they're two more examples. Considering the
context of those that Brad Pitt is alleged to have
(08:17):
abused Shiloh's mom in front of her, and Tom Cruise
is reported to have cut off his daughter's mother over
well maybe religion scientology for shartology. Who could blame them,
But they are also examples of a growing group of
young people and not so young people who are being
advised and assisted in cutting off family members who are
(08:37):
deemed toxic.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I finally cut my mom off. He hate that this
is my reality. I don't want to be the child
who has to cut off their only living parent because
the dynamic is so abusive and toxic.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Why cutting my dad out of my life was the
best thing that ever happened for our relationship.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I went no contact with my sister a little over
a year ago. It just goes to show sometimes your family,
sometimes your family are your biggest hears.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I am no longer accepting toxic behavior just because we
call each other family.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
As I've been going through therapy, I have just realized
how toxic some.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Family dynamics and relationships can be because we've allowed our
families to treat us any type of way.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
In fact, there are a lot of coaches online who
will help you do it, and there are a lot
of people online who will cheerlead you through the process.
One of these people is a guy called Patrick Tian.
He is a coach who'll help you understand if you
need to cut off your family and how to do.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It, and he will sell you all the things that
you need to do it, including the template of an
email courses.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
A bit like the breakup coaches that we spoke about
last week. I'm really conflicted about this guy, a bit
like the breakup coaches again. He has these different sort
of strategies to decide whether you need to go no
contact or just some contact with parents who are problematic.
And he has a sort of quiz online that's like
a map that you can follow, and it says do
you need to cut your family off? And the answers
(10:13):
are yes, you do or no, they're just a bit difficult.
Twom is just one of the people who has these
webinars and all these things who will coach you in
how to do it. And then there's a trend on
TikTok and other social media platforms of people kind of
cheering you on and guiding you through it.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, like strangers who would just say, yeah, you should
definitely cut your parents off.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Family estrangement is a growing business. What do we think
about that.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
There is a reason why if if you've been seeing
a psychologist for a lot of years and you have
complicated family dynamics, that psychologist probably hasn't told you to
cut your mum or your dad or your siblings off.
And that is because as part of their training, they
do no harm. They can't do anything to you or
(11:01):
guide you in a way that could potentially lead you
to harm. And also it is not part of their extensive,
extensive training to coach you necessarily and to make decisions
for you. You'll notice this that they'll offer feel about
that Jesse exactly. And it can be quite frustrating because
you think, I just want you to tell me whether
(11:21):
or not I should quit my job, and they will
not tell you that. They will help you make the
decision because that's empowering. That's how you get a bit
of self esteem, and that's what they're there for. They're
a psychologist. So I find this incredibly distressing, and I've
been reading a lot about it. You find is a
life coach. The coaches who are coming on suggesting that
(11:43):
you should cut yourself off from family members. I've been
keeping a close eye on this for years, right because
it does seem to be bubbling up, and every time
we write a story on the website about estrangement, it
goes viral, and.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I have both sides. Actually, there's a really big group
of parents of adult children who are estranged from their children,
who feel very aggrieved about it, and whenever we write
about that too on Mamma Mia, we get a huge,
huge response.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And my initial feeling has been, like I believe so
much in the family unit. I don't mean a mum
and a dad and kids. I mean whether it's a
relationship with a grandparent or a sibling or your chosen family.
I just think that's central to mental health is having
that support system. So I've always been like, you need
some support system, even if it's chosen. You can have
toxic parents, but you've got a unit. However, in my
(12:34):
life in the last few years, I have had two
friends have absolutely catastrophic falling out with close, close family
members and I could not support them more wholeheartedly in estrangement.
So I think that it's so case by case in
terms of whether or not and in fact, in both
of these I wouldn't say that abuse is a factor.
(12:57):
I think that we've probably got to carve out any
physical sexual emotional abuse is one thing you need to
protect yourself. And I would support anyone in that this
isn't a case of abuse. But cut off their family
members did what ten years of therapy wouldn't have been
able to do, which was like protect themselves. And I've all.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
The energy and toxicity and negativity that you carry around
with you when you're constantly thinking about how to deal
with this relationship that's making your life worse, not better.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think it's very interesting this idea. I have recently
interviewed someone called Africa Brook about what she calls the
Age of intolerance, and it was more about cancel culture, actually,
but this is kind of similar in a way. It's
like canceling your family. And we were talking about this
age of intolerance and this idea that we used to
accept a certain amount of friction and discomfort in our
(13:50):
lives for better and for worse. The worse scale, it's
sort of like we'll just suck it up, you know.
And at the better scale, it's like, well, if you
cut off everybody that you disagree with or that you
have conflict with, you get to end up being fairly
isolated in your life. We were talking about this idea
of how much dysfunction do you just accept is par
(14:15):
of the course in family relationships, and when does it
become pathologized, like it actually is toxic? And what does
toxic even mean. It's toxic just something that makes you
feel a bit bad or a bit sad. And when
I watch some of these videos of this guy on
his YouTube channel and he's talking about here are the
six childhood trauma triggers, and it's like, it's all just very.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
It's very general.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Let's use an example that isn't too extreme, right because
Elon musk I could not fault his daughter for choosing
not to engage with you. If your parents exactly your humanity,
that is fair enough.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So use it less publicly like the things use it
as a political force.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It's horribly So let's use a less extreme example and
prosecute that like a very common one. Because one of
the things that is difficult about family is they have
a lot of expectations about who you are, right, And
let's say that every time you go spend time with
your mother or your father, you can feel their disappointment
in you, like that you haven't lived up to whatever
expectations they had of you. Maybe you didn't get married,
(15:18):
maybe you didn't have children. Maybe your career isn't that
successful and they were really ambitious for you. Maybe they
feel you haven't lived up to your potential. Maybe you're
doing a job they don't approve of. Whatever. So let's
just imagine that every time you hang out with that family,
you feel that they project that and you feel shit
about yourself, and you leave that family dinner or that
you know, visit to granny or whatever, just always feeling crap.
(15:41):
If we use that example, so it's not abuse, it's
not extreme, it's not denying you humanity, but it is
it makes you feel shit all the time. Are you
allowed to just opt out? I would say yes, you
absolutely are.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Well, you're in adults, so of course you can.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But what do we think about that? Does that fall
into this thing that you're saying about, like, can't we
just deal with a bit of discomforting?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
There's a difference between opting out and estrangement.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
What's the difference between opticum and estrangement. If I just
keep saying every time Mum calls me and says can
you come over on Sunday, I say, oh no, sorry,
I'm busy, or like can you come to this thing? No,
I can't, And then six months have gone by and
I haven't seen her. Is that estrangement er opting out?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I don't think it is. So a lot of this.
There is actually almost a process and a rule book
for estrangement, and there's a special letter that you send
and it's basically like you were toxic. I'm not according
to this particularly, yes, exactly right, and it's no contact,
like absolutely, I'm not going back and forth.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You're dead to me.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, you're not justifying yourself and that you've got parents
saying I'm grieving this more than I grieved the loss
of a parent like that. There's an enormous amount of
pain with that, and in some cases perhaps it's justified.
But if you are finding yourself in context, whether it
be with friends or sometimes it's extended family, like you
even find that the family Christmas at the end of
the year makes you feel like shit, you have every
(16:57):
right to be like, I'm not going to put myself Yeah,
in that as without cutting yourself entirely off right.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Okay, my flag here and I agree with all of that,
is when you go to therapy, generally, there'll be things
about your childhood and the way you were parented that
were less than optimal. For most people, particularly gen X's
who grew up in the seventies when free range parenting
was kind of the way it all happened, benig neglect
(17:26):
we call it. We were parented in a very different
way to the way we parent which is a lot
more like helicopters. And so I think that there's a
pretty common thing when you go to therapy that you
get very angry with your parents for a while and
you're like, oh, this thing that happened to me when
I was a kid, that's the reason i'm this or
i'm that, And I went through that, and I'm sure
my kids have gone through that. In fact I know
(17:47):
I have. Then you come out the other side of it,
and I don't know as when I had kids that
I became a little more compassionate and a little more understanding,
and my parents expressed regret for like, you know, the
fact that they used to fight in front of me
or whatever it was, and there was no abuse in
my house at all, But you know, it was the
seventies and our parents back then were a lot more
(18:07):
focused on their own lives than doing the right thing
by their kids all the time. And there's so many
things I've done wrong to my kids, so many things
you don't mean to, but you're operating with the best
tools that you had at that time. So I think
what you say whole. The distinction for me is if
you go and it's still in current present tens where
they're making you feel terrible, then I agree. You don't
(18:30):
want to put yourself in that situation if you're historically
angry about the fact that you know, maybe there wasn't
food on the table every night because they were out
partying or something, and that was just a period of
their lives, or again, I don't want to talk about neglect,
but their parenting of you is suboptimal, and you're angry
with them now as people in their seventies or eighties,
(18:52):
that can be incredibly cruel, And I don't know if
i'd support I'm.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Going to struggle with a bit with this. I think
everybody's got different views on family and like, as you
said at the beginning, Jesse, family is very very central
to you and your life, and it is to you
to me right, and it is to me too. Of
course I have my own family, and of course, but
I don't think that the point of being a parent
is that I own you and you have to hang
(19:16):
out with me and you have to be in my
life and it doesn't matter how I treat you. And
again I'm not talking about extremes. You just have to
because I warned you. Yeah, And you're like, I think
we all are individuals and the family unit is important,
but it's not given, Like it's not a given if
you when you think of family, you think a very
positive thing. But for a lot of people, they don't.
(19:39):
They think of family and they think of a very
negative thing or a very oppressive thing, or something that
makes their life more difficult and they can't let go
of anger or they can't like go of issues, And
why would they put themselves through that just because you're
supposed to and because our culture likes to say family
comes first bloodstick of the water, they'll be the ones
with you at the end. Like that's not really.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
People profiting off family estrangement because this guy, and you know,
businesses are businesses, and if he's helping peop, great, But
if someone is selling products and trying to funnel you
literally into paying him money to do a thing, then
that's not a therapist, is not that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
There's also a sinister element to community. And the sinister
element can be that when you come in and you're estranged,
what I'm projecting on you is what happened to me.
So let's say I was the victim of abuse from
my family, and then you come in. And one example
in this New York Times article was someone said many
have had absent or workaholic fathers, for instance. That is trauma.
(20:48):
It is abandonment, it is neglect. Now we can have
an argument about whether having a workaholic father is yeah,
trauma or not.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
But I mean, I don't think that's the same as
about minute No.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
It depends.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yes. I don't think it is either. Right, So you
come in with that, which is just like I had
a father who was away a lot, which is a pain.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, absolutely, two jobs and was not known yet.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
But then I project what happened to me onto you,
and I welcome you into the community. And then the
way that they're talking as well, is they're going, oh,
every time I think I might reach out to my
father again, yeah, I go to the community. In the community,
don't do it toxic. Yeah, And so you think there
are so many nuances within that, and you also know
that there are people who any relationships, anyone could drop
(21:31):
dead at any minute. And you hear people express regret
over not reconciling, but things that were never said. So
part of this movement as well is that you send
the letter and you don't read or receive or engage
with what comes back. And that's not really how life works,
like it does if you're in a domestic violence situation.
(21:52):
It does if again.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It's like blocking someone on Instagram, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But if it's something like there was something that happened
in your childhood that you want to work through. I
believe that a lot of resolution can probably take place
on the other side of a few really difficult conversations,
and that every relationship you have will be imperfect, like
there's going to be flaws in it.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
That's true, and hopefully a lot of resolution can be
had on the other side of difficult conversations. But that's
something that happens in movies. Right, like that doesn't really
happen that much in real life for some people, they
are they've dug in, you've dug in. This isn't impass.
Somebody here has to decide what can I live with?
And yes, ideally we're all the bigger person and go, yeah,
(22:33):
I'll go and hang out with dad, even though every
time I go out and hang out with Dad, I
walk out of there feeling like one centimeter t all
or you could go, you know what. It takes me
so long to build myself back up again after I
do that. I'm just not putting myself through it anymore.
It doesn't mean he's a monster, but it's not something
I want in my life. I think the fact that
there's a support community for that is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I jumped on and did the test because I wanted
to saye.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
What some of the friendly toxic is he his family? Not?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, I think all our families are toxic to very degree.
But there were some questions that were so clear that
I went, this is actually a really good thing to consider.
And then there were others that were just so general,
and I just find the length this general. Again, A
qualified psychologist, a qualified counselor won't use broad strokes terms.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I feel like it's leading the witness. It's leading the witness,
and you go, oh, my family was above fifty percent toxic.
Therefore I should cut contact and buy these resources.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
That might not be the best thing. So some of
the questions were so you kind of decide, I agree,
like this happened all the time. This didn't happened at all.
Eye witnessed or experienced harsh, critical and disrespectful communication from
family members or caregivers.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Disrespectful I mean when you're seven, like and your parents says,
go to your room.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Or emotional neglect, even an emotional neglect is a real
thing with a very specific definition. But in this it
said defined it as not being a priority, feeling like
you're not a priority. I think that everyk in the
world has felt like they're not a priority because they weren't.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
You know who feels like they're always a priority? Nightmares like, yes,
spoiled nightmares, who are just that's who Donald Trump grows
up to be. Look, I think if I really dig
deep into why I'm so against it is that it
is my biggest fear. It is my absolute biggest fear.
Because I've done a lot of terrible things as a mother,
like just not on purpose and not like terrible terrible things.
(24:20):
But what if my kids decide to cut me off?
I would I couldn't cope.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
It's a shift too. It feels like there's a point
at which the children have the power.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, yes, that's the thing is. That's what I mean though,
is that you don't just deserve that. You have to
work right. You don't just get that connection because you're
their mother, Like you have to be someone they want
to be around.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Out loud as if this is you know, something that's
going on in your life or something that's gone on
in your life. We're thinking of you as sending our love.
You've got to do what's good for you.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
weekend with our very best recommendations. Maya, what have you got?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Get the mood with Simone Biles Rising? Not that anyone
wants Bile Rising, but Simone Biles Rising is brilliant. It
is a doco on Netflix. I think it's like two
or three parts. Of course, the story has not been completed.
Because Simone Biles is the gymnastics superstar who withdrew from
the twenty twenty Tokyo Olympics due to mental health concern
(25:39):
American We talked about it on the show. I forge
the greatest of all time, not just the greatest of
all time gymnast, but I think the greatest of all
time athletes. According to how many world championships she's won
in her sport.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
I forgot because Tokyo was three years ago. I forgot that.
It bothers me. How you say gymnast?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yes, it was the twenty twenty Tokyo Olympics that was
held into twenty twenty one, and she was a gymnast, gymnast, gymnast?
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Oh it annoys me? How you say it?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Anyway, Anyway, she was the premiere gym nask in her
general I need you to sell this to me, because
although I know that she's amazing, now reminded me who
she was.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I've seen all those like she Yeah, No, one's done
so many twisting. Why would I watch a documentary about
gym nasts.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Well, gymnastics is such an interesting spot, is there? A
lot of the doco is about her comeback and the
fact that she got what's called the twisty so she
was doing the vault at the Olympics and in midair
she forgot where she was. And you know, it can
look like all these little things jumping around and doing tricks,
but actually they're incredible athletes and they can be killed
(26:41):
in critically catastrophically injured in their sport, which is something
that you wouldn't say of like basketball or swimming. And
so she decided to pull out because she said mentally
she wasn't capable of continuing. She recognized that there was
a would be a risk to her life if she
did it, and stuffed up.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I've always had really good intuition about things, and unfortunately
I felt that way about the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Simone is a once in a lifetime athlete.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
She's not just dominant, she is clushing herself.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Now. The greatest ever is a phone liles.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Wow, Never in my life have I seen her do that.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Never, So having these mental blocks and then Janu recently.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Some more files.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Is out of the competition tonight.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But remember she was also a survivor of Larry Nassa,
who was the physiotherapist of the USA Women's gymnastas two. Yeah,
a little bit, and she talks about a little bit
and about how she thought she was okay, but you know,
she won her first tournament as an underdog when she
was about fifteen, and she said every tournament she's ever
(28:02):
been in since then, and she's now twenty six, the
expectation has been that she'll win and she has so
imagine that pressure. So the fact that she's come back
at the age of twenty six, which is going to
make her the oldest gymnast I think ever in the
American team, maybe the oldest gymnast in Olympic history to compete,
is a really big deal. So the documentary, I was
(28:23):
listening to an interview the maker of the documentary and said,
it's interesting making a documentary where the end of it
isn't written yet because who knows how she'll go. I mean,
it's going to be all eyes in Paris to see
how she goes. It was about what that process was
coming back, really really interesting in her husband, and there's
a funny part Jesse where he talks about meeting They
(28:44):
met on the Apps and they went on a date
and he's a pro NFL player and she got out
of her range drover and he said, I got scared
because she was so small. I've never ever seen someone
so small before.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Look at you watching a sports documentary?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Where is it? Netflix?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Netflix? That's that gymnastics I always love. That's the only
thing I watched in the Olympics, Holly, how about you?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I have a biute product. Look, you know I'm bougie.
Lee Campbell calls me a boogie bitch when it comes
to beauty, and I am a bit. I have to say.
I like a bit of a splurge when it comes
to be.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Both boogie and basic. That's what we love about it.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It's just I contain multitudes as I like that about
myself too. When I was in Sydney recently and I
took Matilda to one of the fancy makeup stores Mecca,
and I remembered how much everything costs, I was like,
oh shit, And I remembered why this is such a
good record, right. Celeste Barber has just released a beauty range.
(29:38):
Now we all know who celest Barbara is. She is
a influencer, content creator, comedian actress. She just released a
makeup range and people are a little bit irolly about
some celebrity makeup ranges and skincare ranges. Because everybody's got
one now, right, so it's like, oh, are they any
good whatever? And the thing is, is that one of
these products that's in this range. I've been using it
(30:00):
for the past week as I've been on holiday and
doing different things, and it's bloody great. Right. It's called
Bam Bam Bam, which a is a really good name,
but it's called Bambam because it does three things. It's
a lip cheek, an eye tint, and it's twenty two bucks,
which is not bad. It's not super cheap, but it's
nowhere near the few use Well. I've been using it
on my cheeks and my lips, and the thing is
(30:21):
the reason I'm recommending it is I have a very
expensive product that does the same things, which I also
really like, but it costs like three times that legs.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, I think it costs more than three times.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, maybe not quite that much, but yeah, a lot
a lot more. And I was like, I bet it
won't last. I bet it will wear off quickly, and
I was wrong. It's really good. It's got a bit
of not shine, not in a glittery way, but a
bit of like glow to it, and it stays the
pigment is strong and it stays.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
You can only buy it online.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
You can only buy it online, so you have to
buy it from her brand, which is called Booy Beauty.
And I haven't tried everything, so I'm not recommending the
whole range. But this bam bam bam blush thing lip
thing I think is really good. So I will now
try the other thing.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, I tried the where the hell is my nourished lipstick?
To be clear, we weren't saying any product mayor was
when we went to our office and stole it or
stole it. And I tried that and it was a
really good because I like a lip tint, not like
a lipstick, and it was pigmented.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Big fan. Yes, good good products. So I'm reckoing Booy
dot com. I think is the site twenty two dollars
affordable and good.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I am recommending a book that I listened to on
Audible over the summer and I forgot to recommend it,
and then I've been listening to interviews with the author since,
and I was like, why did I never recommend that
Atomic Habits by James Clear.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I started listening to that too Audible.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh that's a productivity classic. Right, it's been around a while.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
It has. I think it's been like New York Times
bestseller list forever. And the reason I'm recommending it now
is because we're in the media slump. A lot of
people are feeling like the habits have gone out the window.
We had goals in regards to remember those remember goals.
There was exercise. If you feel like you're a bit
disorganized or your life is a bit chaotic and you
(32:05):
need to kind of get on top of it all again,
listen to this book or read this book. I liked
listening to it almost as a podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That was my idea too. And then yeah, I obviously
didn't get in the habit at well enough because I
didn't complete it.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
He said kind of that, can you give me an
example of an atomic habit that I should, like, give
me an example of what I would get if I
listened to this.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
He says that every habit you have is a vote
for the person you want to be. And he says,
shell up yeap that. His other big thing is you
think you don't have habits, but you do, you just
didn't choose them. So if you don't choose what time
you're going to get up, or you don't choose what
you're going to do. You do have a way of
doing things, they're just not intentional. He has specific hacks
about like exercise and I think laying your shoes out
and all that kind of stuff, which you will have heard.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Before done any of the hacks or was it just
do these things or is it about his how to
make the right habits stick for you?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
It was about values, like knowing what your values are
and then knowing what you want your life to look like,
how to stick at a habit, the science of habits,
how long it takes, but also was just like a
real analysis of how habits everything. They're all that matters really,
from everything from if you want to spend time with
family or career ambitions or whatever. It's like, it's just habits.
(33:16):
And the atomic habit thing is so clever because an
atom is a tiny little thing, but atomic is explosive,
like it affects your whole life. So your think from
making your bed or whatever like actually does have these impacts.
And I can honestly say that that book changed my life.
I'm not a routined person. I'm not good at habits.
I am now I would say that I've got a
(33:38):
way that I do things that I commit to and
it's just stuck with me. He's very very good.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Okay, Yeah, I'll get back into that. If you want
to get all our recommendations in one place, you've got
to sign up for the Mom and Mere out Loud newsletter.
It's written by our friend m Vernum, so it's always
funny this week. In there, you'll also be able to
find out what day of the week are you quiz,
which we spoke about a couple of weeks ago. There's
going to be a link to how you can sign
up for the newsletter and make sure you never miss
(34:05):
out in our show notes.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Hello, this is Rainy. I call it from a hotel
overnight shift where I monitor all the security operations for
the hotel large hotel, and I just wanted to say
I love your show and that's where I'm listening from
in my overnights.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I need it.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
I need a dose of Australia because I live in
another country and it really helps to hear your voices
and hear all the news and everything from Australia. Again,
thanks so much, ladies, and keep up the good work.
I Love Mama Mia and I Love Mamia out Loud.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mom
and Mia out Loud just for Mamma and Mia subscribers.
Follow the link in the show notes to get your
daily dose of out Loud and a big thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
It's time for Best and Worst of the Week, where
we recap some of the things that have gone on
in our personal lives that have been well highs and lows. Really,
I'm going to start. The rules are that we start
with the low and we end on a high. My
low is being a bad friend. My friends have every
right to cut me off because I've got two friends
(35:32):
who are going through difficult things at the moment. One
is going through a health issue and the other one
recently lost someone who's close to her. And the friends
know each other not through me, but they sort of
keep in touch with each other broadly through me. When
each of them heard what had happened to the other,
they each asked me for the other person's address so
(35:54):
that they could send them a care package. I'm in
the middle sending both of these people who are going
through really tough things. The address of the other person
so that they could send. Have I sent either of
them anything? I have not, and I'm paralyzed because I
don't know what to send.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
There's lots of discussions in the outlouders about what to
say people, do you say? The big one is dinner ladies.
I love a dinner ladies about her. Yeah, because food
is the thing that it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Never no one's ever sad about food.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
But you know, when I did that episode about grief
on mid with Jackie Bailey, who's an expert, she says,
chocolate or whatever somebody's thing is, so she loves chocolate, right,
And she says she has a group of girlfriends who
whenever Jackie has lost someone, and as you would know
if you listened to the episode she's lost, a lot
of people will just send her a big box of
giant dairy milk bars and it always makes her smile,
(36:50):
gives her a treat like just something like silly like
that that you know they love. So if they love
a particular kind of cake or for if.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I don't know, because both of these friends live in
different cities.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
To me, that's what post is for.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Hence I've got everyone's addresses now, and so I'm passing
them on to each other, and I'm just like, oh,
I feel so bad about myself. They should send me
something because I feel bad.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I'm sure you've made them feel good in other ways
you might not have seen I have. You've probably sent
them funny little memes.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I've provided them with helpful information, like the stresses of
other people. No, not really. Sometimes I'll provide a little
bit of distraction, but I'm just a bit useless with
that stuff. Anyway, I will do better. My best is
that leopard print is back, not just back as a trend,
but well because I'm a basic bitch back in my head.
The downside is that I gave away on my leopard
(37:39):
because I decided you get to a certain ag well,
I thought I got to a certain age, and I
was a bit hungover from because I was very much
a Leopard fan. Leopard is a neutral Carol Baskin, Oh
you cool gets and kittens.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
It's Carol at Big Cat Rescue.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
You get to a certain age, and I was giving
a bit of Carol Baskin from Tiger King, and that's
not a happy time for any of us. It was
happened during lockdown. We'll watch that. I don't know what's
happened to Carol. Carol did like a leopard print. I
just was starting to feel a bit oh no, So
I got rid of all my leopard print and now
I have to buy all new leopard print.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I got into the lift the other day and there
was a leopard in the lift and it was Mea,
and she was just decked out, ra just in her leopard,
talking about her leopard, looking at herself in the mirror
in her leopard, talking about how sad she was she's
thrown out her leopard. And I went, it's honestly not
even nine o'clock on a Monday, and this is a lot.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
My daughter told me leopard was back, because, like you know, souprey,
I've got leopard jeans and everything, and she's leopard jeans.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I bought a pair of cotton on leopard jeans for
like fifty five bucks there on sale, like oversized leopard jeans,
And have you worn those yet? No? Because I got
the wrong side, so I have to buy them again. Anyway,
Leopard is back and I'm happy about it. Bless you.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Okay, My worst is remember how last Friday there was
that big crowd strike outage and no one could do anything.
I can one up that because on Saturday I went
back home to where I live, which out loud as
may or may not know, is in a regional area
of New South Wales, and.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
We had a power cut.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
And since I've moved to the regions, we have power cuts.
I'd say all the time. It would be an exaggeration,
but frequently. How often we've lived in our new house
for eighteen months. The day we moved in, we had
a power cut, and I'd say we've probably had about
four more every time the weather's a bit weird anytime, What.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Does it take a long time for them to fix?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
And so what happens is and any regional out louders
right now will be nodding because this is the thing.
All the lights go out, everything goes off. It's freezing cold,
the heaters are down. We can't have a hard shower,
I can't put the heater on, so it's cold in
your house, cold everywhere for day rum and you get
a text message that says power outed. You're like, yeah,
I can see that. We don't know when it's going
to come back. But we're hoping sometime before and then
(39:51):
it's a bit like you know when Telstra tell you
when someone's coming, it'll be like sometime before two thirty
am or whatever, and maybe it will and maybe it won't.
And on Saturday afternoon it went out at about because
it was windy, was really windy down where we were,
and I think some power lines blew over. It went
out at about four and it was beginning to get dark,
and I had one of Billy's little friends came back
with us to stay over, and I was like, how
(40:12):
am I going to entertain this? Can't charge your phones,
can't charge your tech, so no screens, no lights.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You could go in the car and charge through you
if you've got to charge.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Luckily, our local and this is also lots of regional places.
Our local got our local pub and the club like
have gener yeah, yeah, because they know that the power
goes out a lot. So we all had to go
to the pub for dinner and then just hope it
was We came back to the house and it was
pitch black, and all anyone does is in the Facebook
groups is like, is your power out? Should power out?
(40:42):
Sho your power coming back? You know how local Facebook
groups or everything some powers back and ours wasn't, and
I was like, how am I going to entertain these kids?
And so we right, We've got a box that we
keep under the sync now that I've been nagging Brent
to do for ages. It's candles, torches, lamps because it
happened so often, and so we had all candles and stuff,
and I was like, it's going to be one of
those wholesome like we're going to wrap ourselves in doing
(41:04):
this because it's freezing and play board games or something,
and sang God that just before the board game was
cracked open, the lights came back on and we could
watch a movie, which is what we did. But the
board game dealow point, life's hard when there's no power.
I'm just putting it out there and shout out to
regional like louders who have to put up with that
more than most. My best though, was something that happened
(41:26):
when I was in the city. So I had a
couple of days off at the end of last week
and hung out with my family in Sydney and we
had a great time. And I did forget that I
was also going to recommend Twisters, which is the big
new action movie and Glenn Powell we went see that.
It was just so much fun and Glenn Powell, did
you like it? Brad Pitt from the nineties, one hundred
percent loved it great, very, very enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
So you saw that at Imax and it was like all.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Twisty green Yep. It was so much fun and the
kids loved it. We had a great time. So I
recommend that for a family outing. Then the next day
we did something much more cultural. I don't know anything
about art right, but I love portraits. So whenever I'm
in London, I always me and my friends will always
go to the National Portrait Gallery because it's got portraits
of like celebrities from now and then you know royals
(42:08):
from back in the day. And I portraits because I
love people and I love nosing that. The Archibald Prize
has been on at the Art Gallery of New South Wales,
which is a portrait competition and I've never ever been
in my whole life. Oh, I love the archim because
it's all portraits.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That's the only art that I can understand.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, portraits, and I love the diversity of it because
you'd think portraits are all going to look the same,
but they don't. So we went to the Archibald and
then this great thing happened, which is why it was
my best. My favorite portrait in there, because you can
all vote, was this piece by an artist called Natasha
Bienniek and it was called self Portrait with Florence and
(42:44):
it just, to use a wanky term, it just spoke
to me, right, I just loved this painting. And it's
a painting of a very tired mother holding a small child,
and it's just very detailed her paintings, as I discovered,
because she had another one in there, a very like realistic,
like very and it was really small and there was
(43:05):
just something about it that was so powerful. And so
I read the you know the thing me on the
side and Florence is her daughter. She calls her Flossy
and she's three. And what Natasha wrote in this thing
is she said, she follows me around the house and
yearns for my voice as she's falling asleep. I wanted
to make a painting that reflected the intensity of that bond.
And the painting is of a moment. I'm exhausted, I
(43:25):
haven't slept properly in years, and I'm trying to balance
my studio practice with parenting. At times, I found it
challenging to be a productive artist and an attentive mother,
and I think many working mothers find themselves in a
similar situation. No shit, she said, I wanted this painting
to continue the conversation and the thing is and the
reason this is my best That's exactly what I got
from it before reading the thing.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Do you know look in that you showed me before?
And I was just like reached into my heart. The
look on the mother's face and the very specific way
her daughter is sitting on yes, and.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
The look on the daughter's face, and there's so much
love in it. It's not like a wingy portrait, not
that the portrait could win. Do you anyway even better?
To make this my absolute best? I took a picture
of it. I put it on my Instagram and I
tagged Natasha and I said this was my favorite picture
in the archiebald I voted for it, and Natasha answered
and said, oh my god, I'm an out louder. Oh
(44:21):
I was sure, she said, I can't believe you're really
like my portrait. I'm so glad it spoke to you.
And she has another amazing painting in the Art Gally
of New South Wales called Bath, which is of her
cleaning a bath, which sounds but it's so good. Again.
She's very into like exploring domesticity and work and I
was like, I can't believe we have out loud as
that talented, except of course I can played all off.
(44:42):
I was like, that is amazing and it was my
best of the week and oh, that's hard. That's speaks
to you. You know, it sounds high for Luton, but
it's like it's just the stuff that makes.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
The wolf you felt seen.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
My worst is I've spoken before about my pop with
his dementia and just watching how quickly the deterioration happens.
And it wasn't that long ago that he was very
independent and very sharp and like really proud, and he
valued himself so much on being useful, like he was
a person that came over and helped with things. And
(45:17):
even I was there the other day. He got out
a high chair that he'd built because he's really like
carpentry and stuff, and he'd built that for my cousin
that was there, and Luna was in the high chair
and I just thought, oh, things have changed so much,
like he's Yeah, just watching someone disappear a bit in
front of you is quite confronting, and I think that
(45:37):
there's this tendency to want to look away because it's
really confronting. But at the same time you don't. There
must be such loneliness because he can't even recall, like
an hour later, he doesn't even know it's there, so
he must just feel lonely. Every minute, every minute must
be an eternity like it.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
That's kind so hard, And then you sort of say
to yourself, I've got a weekend, I've got limited amount
of time. Yeh, I'm going to go. He won't even
remember that I've been there. No, why am I going?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
And my auntie who's just like he's a saint, like
she just cares for him, and it's you know, I
don't want to say thankless, but you know, there are
so many women in particular that are caring for parents
and it's just the hardest job in the world. My
best is I've got two quick ones. The first is
I've been trying to teach Luna sign language.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
I know she is one of those she's journey into
one like Hi, my daughter's going to be I've been
talented all the sign language.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
She's doing hs mad.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
But the thinking is right that it makes them less frustrated.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yes, that it can help you.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
No, I know, and I want to apologize. I sounded
so dismissive. Then there'll be lots of moms and parents
listening to this coverer. But it's like in my circles,
the moms who were teaching the sign language, they were
the very high level moms.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
You know what I'm saying, Alley, No one's teaching the
second kid the sign language.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I can.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Everyone's teaching the first kid the sign language. And that's
why I've got time. So I've been trying to teach
to her. It's just so funny. She looks at me like,
I don't know what you're doing. Then the other day,
Luca gives her a potato chip. Right, probably shouldn't give
a potato chip, but Alas that's where we were, gives
it to it and she ate it and she was
just overcome, right, and she's going mo, mo mo, like
I want more, and she's pointing and she's shaking her
(47:13):
arms around and she's like, dad's dad, how else do
I communicate to you that I would like that another one.
She then looks Luca in the eye, gets her sign
and she goes more. She's never said the word more before.
She says Mama, dad and nana.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
So it was the motivation that was yes, yes, she
just looked she did her things high value treat.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
And just went high value more like clear as anything.
And it was like she was out of her bag
of tricks and she won't you guys are gonna make
me do this?
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Aren't you must?
Speaker 3 (47:44):
And now she just every time she wakes up, it's
just more like constantly does.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
She think that means chips? Though she's doing it hoping that.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
We open her book, and she goes more like turn
the page, turn page. Honestly, have you ever met anyone
that's so clever? And my other best is that I
have been working on scripts like the last few months,
just a few television show things that anyone who knows
anything about the script stuff knows that you just got
(48:12):
probably won't get anywhere, It probably won't get made. All
of that might so you get it. To get to
the point where you've actually written a script is like
feels like an enormous achievement. And this week Claire and
I submitted the first script that we've kind of from
the beginning of the process to the end, wrote an episode,
wrote this pilot. I can't explain what kind of process
it was. It's the first creative process that I felt
(48:34):
like was easy. It was really weird.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Because it was just the two of you. This is strife,
which was a group thing and a different headwriter, and
you wrote one of the episodes together, but this was
yours from idea yeap all the way through.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
And it's comedy, and it was just like I felt
like I was writing bits to make clear laugh, and
then she would edit it to make me laugh. And
we just went back and forth, and I just I
looked at Luca last night and I said to him,
if I get the feedback that this is a piece
of shit that I don't want to make it, I
don't care because I just really enjoyed writing it, which
I've never had before. I've always been so tied to
the outcome. And I just kind of went.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
It's her atomic habits. I think it's she's learned to
appreciate the journey.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah, the journey, not the destination.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Yeah, So I'm feeling growing about it, Aren't I just an'?
I just so it's been a great week.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Before we go, I want to know what ship keeps
you up at night, because on yesterday's subscriber episode out Louders,
we shared the moments from our lives that we think
about at two am. I've actually thought of another one,
which I'm going to see. What's for another episode? I've
got another bad one. Oh, I've got another really bad one.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I was being plagued by these embarrassing moments that I
just randomly wanted to share with you both and unpaw Yours.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Were funny and embarrassing and mine was just awful. If
you want to listen, there's a link in the show
notes and you can share your own embarrassing moments that
keep you awake at night.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Louders. Goodness a louder Friday, isn't it out Louders? Thank
you so much for being with us through another week.
We love hanging out with you and each other. Actually,
this episode is produced by the wonderful Emilyin and Gozillas.
There's been audio production by Leah Porge's so big thank
you to them too, and all of our creative team
and we will be back in your ears next week.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Shout out to any Mum and Mia subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way
to do so. There's a link in the episode description
You're listening to a MoMA mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mama Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Do you guys say the story about the olympian who
chopped off his finger?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
No?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Oh, no, tell me about that. I saw it, but
I didn't really understand.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What I've done isomo clickbait of you, because like very hyperbolic.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
He didn't headline.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I was like, do you know what I immediately thought?
I was like, was it in the wood chopping? Wait?
I used to show.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, he's a hockey sports.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Fer.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Her to tell.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Us he injured the end of his finger, and he
knew that if he had to go to the Olympics
with this injury, then he wouldn't be able to compete
to compete in what so hockey? He's a hockey dude.
He got the end of his finger chopped off, as
in he professionally, professionally and like he had the on
advice medical advice or that kind of thing. Anyway, my
second cousin or some ship so I saw the story, right, yeah,
(01:11):
some Irish like mum's cousin or whatever. My mum keeps
being like, what are your cousins. There's a hockey player
for the Olympics, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And
then I saw this picture and I was like, I'm
pretty sure it's my bloody cousin.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Christmas next Christmas, Kansas. He reaches for the ham. Okay,
are we ready? Hello? And welcome to Mama Mia out
Loud and to our Friday show where we take a
break from the news cycle and breathe out. I have
(01:43):
nothing else happens like it would just be nice for
a while, wouldn't it. Today It's Friday, the twenty sixth
of July. I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Me a Freedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And on the show today, is your family Toxic? If
you don't know, there's a handy quiz you can take
to find out online, Plus a really good Aussie celebrity
beauty product, the Olympic adjacent docco everyone is talking about,
and a productivity classic recommendations and best it was of
the week, including a different kind of outage, a groundbreaking
(02:15):
new fashion trend, and Luna's latest skill. But first, Mere Friedman.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
In case you missed it, there is only one correct
time to eat dinner and I've been doing it all along.
Forget seven thirty pm. The correct time to eat dinner
aligns with a toddler and according to the most acclaimed
restauranteurs across Sydney, this isn't just about when you eat
at home. The most popular dinner booking time is six pm.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Wow, that's early, isn't it. Apparently it's a big shift,
right because we used to eat much later we did.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Restaurant booking platforms have all confirmed this breaking news. One
platform claimed, based on the millions of reservations booked over
the last six months, six pm is the most popular
time for dining out, and more analysis showed that six
pm is our favorite time slot across Australia and five
pm is also offering the largest year on year growth.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
That's wild the bookings. Well, I read this article and
it said that they've had to bring forward opening times
because it used to be that seven thirty eight point
thirty were the most popular, and a big city like Sydney,
so they often wouldn't open till six. But they've had
to change their whole structure because now we're all kids.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I've heard a lot of people from overseas speaking recently
about how Australia shuts down too early, because they say,
if they've come from New York or London, they go
to go and have dinner at nine nine thirty and
everywhere is closed. When we were doing our live shows,
we'd come off stage at nine o'clock nine fifteen and
you couldn't find anywhere to go and get some food.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's the only time I've found it annoying because I've
noticed I've got a group of girlfriends and we go
out to dinner. We've got a standard booking and it's crept.
It started at six o'clock and it's crept. It's now
five thirty year. I don't know how. We were sitting
there the other night and a group of very elderly
ladies came in just as we were leaving home in
(04:09):
bed by seven thirty.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
The theory is COVID broke us, made us all want
to be home more, made us make cocktails at home,
made us do all that stuff more in the house.
So we've just shifted earlier and earlier. Also, we're not
working in the office as much, so it's not like, oh,
I won't be able to get out of the office
before half plus five. But I want to know, if
you're not in a restaurant, if you're just at home,
(04:32):
what time do you like to eat dinner?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
The correct time is seven thirty. I'm sorry, it just
is based on what based on my stomach, seven point
thirty is the time that universally it's the vibe.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
What about when you were growing up? What time did
you eat dinner when you were growing up? Seven? Probably?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, I think seven thirty feels late to me.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yes, yeah, it does because you're not finished till eight
and eight. You're you're edging towards bed.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
But English we are six six because the.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Sun goes down at three. What's difficult, though, is then
a little baby comes along and all the advice I've
been going to the out loud as asking for advice
on my baby that throws all her food on the floor,
and they say you've got to sit down and eat
with her. I'm like, but she has dinner at five
point thirty and I'll.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Come and heat with her.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
That's still like, can she go to your restaurant looking
because no one's eating in our house.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
This is exactly when it all changes, right, because if
I'm allowed to just live my life how I want
to live my life. I'm a seven thirty person too.
Definitely I am, definitely and often later eight. It's not
good for you, apparently.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
No, I'm on to dessert by seventhing.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Often eight o'clock or later on the weekend. But when
my kids were small and everyone said you have to
eat together, I was like, I'm not eating at five.
I'm just not. Also, it's not practical for lots of
people who don't get home from work, so we always
had kids tea, then the kids go to bed, then
grown up seat. But the problem with that is that
pushes you later and later too.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
In my house, we sort of it's a bit like
a choose your own adventure. Just wandering into the kitchen
when you're hungry. That's always amazed me get something wonder off.
I want to know what I allowed to do.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I have two more theories as to why our dinner
keeps getting like comically early. One is the right of
this five am club bullshit.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh that's true.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
If you've got to be up at five, you've got
to be in bed by what nine or something, And
so I reckon that's why people are getting up earlier
and The second reason is lockout laws lack of night life.
So if you did want to have a night we
know there's nowhere to go, right, So if you have
an eight o'clock dinner and then it's just ten o'clock
and then what, it's not like you can go and
get a drink.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I have a different theory. I think it's because there's
lots of good stuff to watch on streaming.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, and that is one of the things that's floated
in this too, is that the COVID times that also
made us watch everything at home makes you want to
be home. Did you know that Elon Musk has fathered
twelve children? It's one of my favorite fat Does Elon
Musk know that he's jokes? Of course he does. Anyway,
A quick rundown of Musk's crew that we know about devastatingly. Actually,
(06:59):
he lost his first baby with his first wife, who's
a Canadian writer called Justin Wilson to SIDS at only
ten weeks old. They then went on to have twins
and then triplets vire IVF. I didn't know that. So
his oldest kids are those kids, the kids he had
with Justine Wilson. Then he had three kids with the
singer Grimes. And now he's had three kids with one
(07:20):
of his executives at Neuralink, which is one of his businesses,
called Chevon Zillis. So that's all the children.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Is he still with Chevon?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Who knows?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I don't know if they're with I don't think that's
a thing.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Oh, okay, all right, he don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
He tends to just inseminate them, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
He's not having a man. I don't think it's a
conventional arrangement. But I don't know that. But why am
I telling you this? I'm so glad you asked. It's
because at least one of his adult children have cut
him off legally filing to drop his name from THEIRS.
That's because his daughter, Vivian, who's twenty years old, is
trans and her father Elon refuses to recognize that fact,
(07:56):
and he's publicly stated recently that Vivian fell victim to
a woke mind virus. Okay, Elon. He's not alone in
being a high profile father whose children want nothing to
do with him, though Brad Pittstell to Shiloh, for example,
Tom Cruise's daughter. Sorry, they're two more examples. Considering the
context of those that Brad Pitt is alleged to have
(08:17):
abused Shiloh's mom in front of her, and Tom Cruise
is reported to have cut off his daughter's mother over
well maybe religion scientology for shartology. Who could blame them,
But they are also examples of a growing group of
young people and not so young people who are being
advised and assisted in cutting off family members who are
(08:37):
deemed toxic.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I finally cut my mom off. He hate that this
is my reality. I don't want to be the child
who has to cut off their only living parent because
the dynamic is so abusive and toxic.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Why cutting my dad out of my life was the
best thing that ever happened for our relationship.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I went no contact with my sister a little over
a year ago. It just goes to show sometimes your family,
sometimes your family are your biggest hears.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I am no longer accepting toxic behavior just because we
call each other family.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
As I've been going through therapy, I have just realized
how toxic some.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Family dynamics and relationships can be because we've allowed our
families to treat us any type of way.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
In fact, there are a lot of coaches online who
will help you do it, and there are a lot
of people online who will cheerlead you through the process.
One of these people is a guy called Patrick Tian.
He is a coach who'll help you understand if you
need to cut off your family and how to do.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It, and he will sell you all the things that
you need to do it, including the template of an
email courses.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
A bit like the breakup coaches that we spoke about
last week. I'm really conflicted about this guy, a bit
like the breakup coaches again. He has these different sort
of strategies to decide whether you need to go no
contact or just some contact with parents who are problematic.
And he has a sort of quiz online that's like
a map that you can follow, and it says do
you need to cut your family off? And the answers
(10:13):
are yes, you do or no, they're just a bit difficult.
Twom is just one of the people who has these
webinars and all these things who will coach you in
how to do it. And then there's a trend on
TikTok and other social media platforms of people kind of
cheering you on and guiding you through it.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, like strangers who would just say, yeah, you should
definitely cut your parents off.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Family estrangement is a growing business. What do we think
about that.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
There is a reason why if if you've been seeing
a psychologist for a lot of years and you have
complicated family dynamics, that psychologist probably hasn't told you to
cut your mum or your dad or your siblings off.
And that is because as part of their training, they
do no harm. They can't do anything to you or
(11:01):
guide you in a way that could potentially lead you
to harm. And also it is not part of their extensive,
extensive training to coach you necessarily and to make decisions
for you. You'll notice this that they'll offer feel about
that Jesse exactly. And it can be quite frustrating because
you think, I just want you to tell me whether
(11:21):
or not I should quit my job, and they will
not tell you that. They will help you make the
decision because that's empowering. That's how you get a bit
of self esteem, and that's what they're there for. They're
a psychologist. So I find this incredibly distressing, and I've
been reading a lot about it. You find is a
life coach. The coaches who are coming on suggesting that
(11:43):
you should cut yourself off from family members. I've been
keeping a close eye on this for years, right because
it does seem to be bubbling up, and every time
we write a story on the website about estrangement, it
goes viral, and.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I have both sides. Actually, there's a really big group
of parents of adult children who are estranged from their children,
who feel very aggrieved about it, and whenever we write
about that too on Mamma Mia, we get a huge,
huge response.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And my initial feeling has been, like I believe so
much in the family unit. I don't mean a mum
and a dad and kids. I mean whether it's a
relationship with a grandparent or a sibling or your chosen family.
I just think that's central to mental health is having
that support system. So I've always been like, you need
some support system, even if it's chosen. You can have
toxic parents, but you've got a unit. However, in my
(12:34):
life in the last few years, I have had two
friends have absolutely catastrophic falling out with close, close family
members and I could not support them more wholeheartedly in estrangement.
So I think that it's so case by case in
terms of whether or not and in fact, in both
of these I wouldn't say that abuse is a factor.
(12:57):
I think that we've probably got to carve out any
physical sexual emotional abuse is one thing you need to
protect yourself. And I would support anyone in that this
isn't a case of abuse. But cut off their family
members did what ten years of therapy wouldn't have been
able to do, which was like protect themselves. And I've all.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
The energy and toxicity and negativity that you carry around
with you when you're constantly thinking about how to deal
with this relationship that's making your life worse, not better.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think it's very interesting this idea. I have recently
interviewed someone called Africa Brook about what she calls the
Age of intolerance, and it was more about cancel culture, actually,
but this is kind of similar in a way. It's
like canceling your family. And we were talking about this
age of intolerance and this idea that we used to
accept a certain amount of friction and discomfort in our
(13:50):
lives for better and for worse. The worse scale, it's
sort of like we'll just suck it up, you know.
And at the better scale, it's like, well, if you
cut off everybody that you disagree with or that you
have conflict with, you get to end up being fairly
isolated in your life. We were talking about this idea
of how much dysfunction do you just accept is par
(14:15):
of the course in family relationships, and when does it
become pathologized, like it actually is toxic? And what does
toxic even mean. It's toxic just something that makes you
feel a bit bad or a bit sad. And when
I watch some of these videos of this guy on
his YouTube channel and he's talking about here are the
six childhood trauma triggers, and it's like, it's all just very.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
It's very general.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Let's use an example that isn't too extreme, right because
Elon musk I could not fault his daughter for choosing
not to engage with you. If your parents exactly your humanity,
that is fair enough.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So use it less publicly like the things use it
as a political force.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It's horribly So let's use a less extreme example and
prosecute that like a very common one. Because one of
the things that is difficult about family is they have
a lot of expectations about who you are, right, And
let's say that every time you go spend time with
your mother or your father, you can feel their disappointment
in you, like that you haven't lived up to whatever
expectations they had of you. Maybe you didn't get married,
(15:18):
maybe you didn't have children. Maybe your career isn't that
successful and they were really ambitious for you. Maybe they
feel you haven't lived up to your potential. Maybe you're
doing a job they don't approve of. Whatever. So let's
just imagine that every time you hang out with that family,
you feel that they project that and you feel shit
about yourself, and you leave that family dinner or that
you know, visit to granny or whatever, just always feeling crap.
(15:41):
If we use that example, so it's not abuse, it's
not extreme, it's not denying you humanity, but it is
it makes you feel shit all the time. Are you
allowed to just opt out? I would say yes, you
absolutely are.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Well, you're in adults, so of course you can.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But what do we think about that? Does that fall
into this thing that you're saying about, like, can't we
just deal with a bit of discomforting?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
There's a difference between opting out and estrangement.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
What's the difference between opticum and estrangement. If I just
keep saying every time Mum calls me and says can
you come over on Sunday, I say, oh no, sorry,
I'm busy, or like can you come to this thing? No,
I can't, And then six months have gone by and
I haven't seen her. Is that estrangement er opting out?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
I don't think it is. So a lot of this.
There is actually almost a process and a rule book
for estrangement, and there's a special letter that you send
and it's basically like you were toxic. I'm not according
to this particularly, yes, exactly right, and it's no contact,
like absolutely, I'm not going back and forth.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You're dead to me.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, you're not justifying yourself and that you've got parents
saying I'm grieving this more than I grieved the loss
of a parent like that. There's an enormous amount of
pain with that, and in some cases perhaps it's justified.
But if you are finding yourself in context, whether it
be with friends or sometimes it's extended family, like you
even find that the family Christmas at the end of
the year makes you feel like shit, you have every
(16:57):
right to be like, I'm not going to put myself Yeah,
in that as without cutting yourself entirely off right.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Okay, my flag here and I agree with all of that,
is when you go to therapy, generally, there'll be things
about your childhood and the way you were parented that
were less than optimal. For most people, particularly gen X's
who grew up in the seventies when free range parenting
was kind of the way it all happened, benig neglect
(17:26):
we call it. We were parented in a very different
way to the way we parent which is a lot
more like helicopters. And so I think that there's a
pretty common thing when you go to therapy that you
get very angry with your parents for a while and
you're like, oh, this thing that happened to me when
I was a kid, that's the reason i'm this or
i'm that, And I went through that, and I'm sure
my kids have gone through that. In fact I know
(17:47):
I have. Then you come out the other side of it,
and I don't know as when I had kids that
I became a little more compassionate and a little more understanding,
and my parents expressed regret for like, you know, the
fact that they used to fight in front of me
or whatever it was, and there was no abuse in
my house at all, But you know, it was the
seventies and our parents back then were a lot more
(18:07):
focused on their own lives than doing the right thing
by their kids all the time. And there's so many
things I've done wrong to my kids, so many things
you don't mean to, but you're operating with the best
tools that you had at that time. So I think
what you say whole. The distinction for me is if
you go and it's still in current present tens where
they're making you feel terrible, then I agree. You don't
(18:30):
want to put yourself in that situation if you're historically
angry about the fact that you know, maybe there wasn't
food on the table every night because they were out
partying or something, and that was just a period of
their lives, or again, I don't want to talk about neglect,
but their parenting of you is suboptimal, and you're angry
with them now as people in their seventies or eighties,
(18:52):
that can be incredibly cruel, And I don't know if
i'd support I'm.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Going to struggle with a bit with this. I think
everybody's got different views on family and like, as you
said at the beginning, Jesse, family is very very central
to you and your life, and it is to you
to me right, and it is to me too. Of
course I have my own family, and of course, but
I don't think that the point of being a parent
is that I own you and you have to hang
(19:16):
out with me and you have to be in my
life and it doesn't matter how I treat you. And
again I'm not talking about extremes. You just have to
because I warned you. Yeah, And you're like, I think
we all are individuals and the family unit is important,
but it's not given, Like it's not a given if
you when you think of family, you think a very
positive thing. But for a lot of people, they don't.
(19:39):
They think of family and they think of a very
negative thing or a very oppressive thing, or something that
makes their life more difficult and they can't let go
of anger or they can't like go of issues, And
why would they put themselves through that just because you're
supposed to and because our culture likes to say family
comes first bloodstick of the water, they'll be the ones
with you at the end. Like that's not really.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
People profiting off family estrangement because this guy, and you know,
businesses are businesses, and if he's helping peop, great, But
if someone is selling products and trying to funnel you
literally into paying him money to do a thing, then
that's not a therapist, is not that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
There's also a sinister element to community. And the sinister
element can be that when you come in and you're estranged,
what I'm projecting on you is what happened to me.
So let's say I was the victim of abuse from
my family, and then you come in. And one example
in this New York Times article was someone said many
have had absent or workaholic fathers, for instance. That is trauma.
(20:48):
It is abandonment, it is neglect. Now we can have
an argument about whether having a workaholic father is yeah,
trauma or not.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
But I mean, I don't think that's the same as
about minute No.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
It depends.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Yes. I don't think it is either. Right, So you
come in with that, which is just like I had
a father who was away a lot, which is a pain.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, absolutely, two jobs and was not known yet.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
But then I project what happened to me onto you,
and I welcome you into the community. And then the
way that they're talking as well, is they're going, oh,
every time I think I might reach out to my
father again, yeah, I go to the community. In the community,
don't do it toxic. Yeah, And so you think there
are so many nuances within that, and you also know
that there are people who any relationships, anyone could drop
(21:31):
dead at any minute. And you hear people express regret
over not reconciling, but things that were never said. So
part of this movement as well is that you send
the letter and you don't read or receive or engage
with what comes back. And that's not really how life works,
like it does if you're in a domestic violence situation.
(21:52):
It does if again.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It's like blocking someone on Instagram, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But if it's something like there was something that happened
in your childhood that you want to work through. I
believe that a lot of resolution can probably take place
on the other side of a few really difficult conversations,
and that every relationship you have will be imperfect, like
there's going to be flaws in it.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
That's true, and hopefully a lot of resolution can be
had on the other side of difficult conversations. But that's
something that happens in movies. Right, like that doesn't really
happen that much in real life for some people, they
are they've dug in, you've dug in. This isn't impass.
Somebody here has to decide what can I live with?
And yes, ideally we're all the bigger person and go, yeah,
(22:33):
I'll go and hang out with dad, even though every
time I go out and hang out with Dad, I
walk out of there feeling like one centimeter t all
or you could go, you know what. It takes me
so long to build myself back up again after I
do that. I'm just not putting myself through it anymore.
It doesn't mean he's a monster, but it's not something
I want in my life. I think the fact that
there's a support community for that is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I jumped on and did the test because I wanted
to saye.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
What some of the friendly toxic is he his family? Not?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, I think all our families are toxic to very degree.
But there were some questions that were so clear that
I went, this is actually a really good thing to consider.
And then there were others that were just so general,
and I just find the length this general. Again, A
qualified psychologist, a qualified counselor won't use broad strokes terms.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I feel like it's leading the witness. It's leading the witness,
and you go, oh, my family was above fifty percent toxic.
Therefore I should cut contact and buy these resources.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
That might not be the best thing. So some of
the questions were so you kind of decide, I agree,
like this happened all the time. This didn't happened at all.
Eye witnessed or experienced harsh, critical and disrespectful communication from
family members or caregivers.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Disrespectful I mean when you're seven, like and your parents says,
go to your room.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Or emotional neglect, even an emotional neglect is a real
thing with a very specific definition. But in this it
said defined it as not being a priority, feeling like
you're not a priority. I think that everyk in the
world has felt like they're not a priority because they weren't.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
You know who feels like they're always a priority? Nightmares like, yes,
spoiled nightmares, who are just that's who Donald Trump grows
up to be. Look, I think if I really dig
deep into why I'm so against it is that it
is my biggest fear. It is my absolute biggest fear.
Because I've done a lot of terrible things as a mother,
like just not on purpose and not like terrible terrible things.
(24:20):
But what if my kids decide to cut me off?
I would I couldn't cope.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
It's a shift too. It feels like there's a point
at which the children have the power.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, yes, that's the thing is. That's what I mean though,
is that you don't just deserve that. You have to
work right. You don't just get that connection because you're
their mother, Like you have to be someone they want
to be around.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Out loud as if this is you know, something that's
going on in your life or something that's gone on
in your life. We're thinking of you as sending our love.
You've got to do what's good for you.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
weekend with our very best recommendations. Maya, what have you got?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Get the mood with Simone Biles Rising? Not that anyone
wants Bile Rising, but Simone Biles Rising is brilliant. It
is a doco on Netflix. I think it's like two
or three parts. Of course, the story has not been completed.
Because Simone Biles is the gymnastics superstar who withdrew from
the twenty twenty Tokyo Olympics due to mental health concern
(25:39):
American We talked about it on the show. I forge
the greatest of all time, not just the greatest of
all time gymnast, but I think the greatest of all
time athletes. According to how many world championships she's won
in her sport.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
I forgot because Tokyo was three years ago. I forgot that.
It bothers me. How you say gymnast?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yes, it was the twenty twenty Tokyo Olympics that was
held into twenty twenty one, and she was a gymnast, gymnast, gymnast?
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Oh it annoys me? How you say it?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Anyway, Anyway, she was the premiere gym nask in her
general I need you to sell this to me, because
although I know that she's amazing, now reminded me who
she was.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I've seen all those like she Yeah, No, one's done
so many twisting. Why would I watch a documentary about
gym nasts.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Well, gymnastics is such an interesting spot, is there? A
lot of the doco is about her comeback and the
fact that she got what's called the twisty so she
was doing the vault at the Olympics and in midair
she forgot where she was. And you know, it can
look like all these little things jumping around and doing tricks,
but actually they're incredible athletes and they can be killed
(26:41):
in critically catastrophically injured in their sport, which is something
that you wouldn't say of like basketball or swimming. And
so she decided to pull out because she said mentally
she wasn't capable of continuing. She recognized that there was
a would be a risk to her life if she
did it, and stuffed up.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I've always had really good intuition about things, and unfortunately
I felt that way about the Olympics.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Simone is a once in a lifetime athlete.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
She's not just dominant, she is clushing herself.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Now. The greatest ever is a phone liles.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Wow, Never in my life have I seen her do that.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Never, So having these mental blocks and then Janu recently.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Some more files.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Is out of the competition tonight.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But remember she was also a survivor of Larry Nassa,
who was the physiotherapist of the USA Women's gymnastas two. Yeah,
a little bit, and she talks about a little bit
and about how she thought she was okay, but you know,
she won her first tournament as an underdog when she
was about fifteen, and she said every tournament she's ever
(28:02):
been in since then, and she's now twenty six, the
expectation has been that she'll win and she has so
imagine that pressure. So the fact that she's come back
at the age of twenty six, which is going to
make her the oldest gymnast I think ever in the
American team, maybe the oldest gymnast in Olympic history to compete,
is a really big deal. So the documentary, I was
(28:23):
listening to an interview the maker of the documentary and said,
it's interesting making a documentary where the end of it
isn't written yet because who knows how she'll go. I mean,
it's going to be all eyes in Paris to see
how she goes. It was about what that process was
coming back, really really interesting in her husband, and there's
a funny part Jesse where he talks about meeting They
(28:44):
met on the Apps and they went on a date
and he's a pro NFL player and she got out
of her range drover and he said, I got scared
because she was so small. I've never ever seen someone
so small before.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Look at you watching a sports documentary?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Where is it? Netflix?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Netflix? That's that gymnastics I always love. That's the only
thing I watched in the Olympics, Holly, how about you?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I have a biute product. Look, you know I'm bougie.
Lee Campbell calls me a boogie bitch when it comes
to beauty, and I am a bit. I have to say.
I like a bit of a splurge when it comes
to be.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Both boogie and basic. That's what we love about it.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
It's just I contain multitudes as I like that about
myself too. When I was in Sydney recently and I
took Matilda to one of the fancy makeup stores Mecca,
and I remembered how much everything costs, I was like,
oh shit, And I remembered why this is such a
good record, right. Celeste Barber has just released a beauty range.
(29:38):
Now we all know who celest Barbara is. She is
a influencer, content creator, comedian actress. She just released a
makeup range and people are a little bit irolly about
some celebrity makeup ranges and skincare ranges. Because everybody's got
one now, right, so it's like, oh, are they any
good whatever? And the thing is, is that one of
these products that's in this range. I've been using it
(30:00):
for the past week as I've been on holiday and
doing different things, and it's bloody great. Right. It's called
Bam Bam Bam, which a is a really good name,
but it's called Bambam because it does three things. It's
a lip cheek, an eye tint, and it's twenty two bucks,
which is not bad. It's not super cheap, but it's
nowhere near the few use Well. I've been using it
on my cheeks and my lips, and the thing is
(30:21):
the reason I'm recommending it is I have a very
expensive product that does the same things, which I also
really like, but it costs like three times that legs.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, I think it costs more than three times.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, maybe not quite that much, but yeah, a lot
a lot more. And I was like, I bet it
won't last. I bet it will wear off quickly, and
I was wrong. It's really good. It's got a bit
of not shine, not in a glittery way, but a
bit of like glow to it, and it stays the
pigment is strong and it stays.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
You can only buy it online.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
You can only buy it online, so you have to
buy it from her brand, which is called Booy Beauty.
And I haven't tried everything, so I'm not recommending the
whole range. But this bam bam bam blush thing lip
thing I think is really good. So I will now
try the other thing.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, I tried the where the hell is my nourished lipstick?
To be clear, we weren't saying any product mayor was
when we went to our office and stole it or
stole it. And I tried that and it was a
really good because I like a lip tint, not like
a lipstick, and it was pigmented.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Big fan. Yes, good good products. So I'm reckoing Booy
dot com. I think is the site twenty two dollars
affordable and good.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I am recommending a book that I listened to on
Audible over the summer and I forgot to recommend it,
and then I've been listening to interviews with the author since,
and I was like, why did I never recommend that
Atomic Habits by James Clear.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I started listening to that too Audible.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh that's a productivity classic. Right, it's been around a while.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
It has. I think it's been like New York Times
bestseller list forever. And the reason I'm recommending it now
is because we're in the media slump. A lot of
people are feeling like the habits have gone out the window.
We had goals in regards to remember those remember goals.
There was exercise. If you feel like you're a bit
disorganized or your life is a bit chaotic and you
(32:05):
need to kind of get on top of it all again,
listen to this book or read this book. I liked
listening to it almost as a podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That was my idea too. And then yeah, I obviously
didn't get in the habit at well enough because I
didn't complete it.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
He said kind of that, can you give me an
example of an atomic habit that I should, like, give
me an example of what I would get if I
listened to this.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
He says that every habit you have is a vote
for the person you want to be. And he says,
shell up yeap that. His other big thing is you
think you don't have habits, but you do, you just
didn't choose them. So if you don't choose what time
you're going to get up, or you don't choose what
you're going to do. You do have a way of
doing things, they're just not intentional. He has specific hacks
about like exercise and I think laying your shoes out
and all that kind of stuff, which you will have heard.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Before done any of the hacks or was it just
do these things or is it about his how to
make the right habits stick for you?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
It was about values, like knowing what your values are
and then knowing what you want your life to look like,
how to stick at a habit, the science of habits,
how long it takes, but also was just like a
real analysis of how habits everything. They're all that matters really,
from everything from if you want to spend time with
family or career ambitions or whatever. It's like, it's just habits.
(33:16):
And the atomic habit thing is so clever because an
atom is a tiny little thing, but atomic is explosive,
like it affects your whole life. So your think from
making your bed or whatever like actually does have these impacts.
And I can honestly say that that book changed my life.
I'm not a routined person. I'm not good at habits.
I am now I would say that I've got a
(33:38):
way that I do things that I commit to and
it's just stuck with me. He's very very good.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Okay, Yeah, I'll get back into that. If you want
to get all our recommendations in one place, you've got
to sign up for the Mom and Mere out Loud newsletter.
It's written by our friend m Vernum, so it's always
funny this week. In there, you'll also be able to
find out what day of the week are you quiz,
which we spoke about a couple of weeks ago. There's
going to be a link to how you can sign
up for the newsletter and make sure you never miss
(34:05):
out in our show notes.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Hello, this is Rainy. I call it from a hotel
overnight shift where I monitor all the security operations for
the hotel large hotel, and I just wanted to say
I love your show and that's where I'm listening from
in my overnights.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I need it.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
I need a dose of Australia because I live in
another country and it really helps to hear your voices
and hear all the news and everything from Australia. Again,
thanks so much, ladies, and keep up the good work.
I Love Mama Mia and I Love Mamia out Loud.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Every Tuesday and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mom
and Mia out Loud just for Mamma and Mia subscribers.
Follow the link in the show notes to get your
daily dose of out Loud and a big thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
It's time for Best and Worst of the Week, where
we recap some of the things that have gone on
in our personal lives that have been well highs and lows. Really,
I'm going to start. The rules are that we start
with the low and we end on a high. My
low is being a bad friend. My friends have every
right to cut me off because I've got two friends
(35:32):
who are going through difficult things at the moment. One
is going through a health issue and the other one
recently lost someone who's close to her. And the friends
know each other not through me, but they sort of
keep in touch with each other broadly through me. When
each of them heard what had happened to the other,
they each asked me for the other person's address so
(35:54):
that they could send them a care package. I'm in
the middle sending both of these people who are going
through really tough things. The address of the other person
so that they could send. Have I sent either of
them anything? I have not, and I'm paralyzed because I
don't know what to send.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
There's lots of discussions in the outlouders about what to
say people, do you say? The big one is dinner ladies.
I love a dinner ladies about her. Yeah, because food
is the thing that it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Never no one's ever sad about food.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
But you know, when I did that episode about grief
on mid with Jackie Bailey, who's an expert, she says,
chocolate or whatever somebody's thing is, so she loves chocolate, right,
And she says she has a group of girlfriends who
whenever Jackie has lost someone, and as you would know
if you listened to the episode she's lost, a lot
of people will just send her a big box of
giant dairy milk bars and it always makes her smile,
(36:50):
gives her a treat like just something like silly like
that that you know they love. So if they love
a particular kind of cake or for if.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I don't know, because both of these friends live in
different cities.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
To me, that's what post is for.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Hence I've got everyone's addresses now, and so I'm passing
them on to each other, and I'm just like, oh,
I feel so bad about myself. They should send me
something because I feel bad.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I'm sure you've made them feel good in other ways
you might not have seen I have. You've probably sent
them funny little memes.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I've provided them with helpful information, like the stresses of
other people. No, not really. Sometimes I'll provide a little
bit of distraction, but I'm just a bit useless with
that stuff. Anyway, I will do better. My best is
that leopard print is back, not just back as a trend,
but well because I'm a basic bitch back in my head.
The downside is that I gave away on my leopard
(37:39):
because I decided you get to a certain ag well,
I thought I got to a certain age, and I
was a bit hungover from because I was very much
a Leopard fan. Leopard is a neutral Carol Baskin, Oh
you cool gets and kittens.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
It's Carol at Big Cat Rescue.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
You get to a certain age, and I was giving
a bit of Carol Baskin from Tiger King, and that's
not a happy time for any of us. It was
happened during lockdown. We'll watch that. I don't know what's
happened to Carol. Carol did like a leopard print. I
just was starting to feel a bit oh no, So
I got rid of all my leopard print and now
I have to buy all new leopard print.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I got into the lift the other day and there
was a leopard in the lift and it was Mea,
and she was just decked out, ra just in her leopard,
talking about her leopard, looking at herself in the mirror
in her leopard, talking about how sad she was she's
thrown out her leopard. And I went, it's honestly not
even nine o'clock on a Monday, and this is a lot.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
My daughter told me leopard was back, because, like you know, souprey,
I've got leopard jeans and everything, and she's leopard jeans.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I bought a pair of cotton on leopard jeans for
like fifty five bucks there on sale, like oversized leopard jeans,
And have you worn those yet? No? Because I got
the wrong side, so I have to buy them again. Anyway,
Leopard is back and I'm happy about it. Bless you.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Okay, My worst is remember how last Friday there was
that big crowd strike outage and no one could do anything.
I can one up that because on Saturday I went
back home to where I live, which out loud as
may or may not know, is in a regional area
of New South Wales, and.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
We had a power cut.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
And since I've moved to the regions, we have power cuts.
I'd say all the time. It would be an exaggeration,
but frequently. How often we've lived in our new house
for eighteen months. The day we moved in, we had
a power cut, and I'd say we've probably had about
four more every time the weather's a bit weird anytime, What.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Does it take a long time for them to fix?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
And so what happens is and any regional out louders
right now will be nodding because this is the thing.
All the lights go out, everything goes off. It's freezing cold,
the heaters are down. We can't have a hard shower,
I can't put the heater on, so it's cold in
your house, cold everywhere for day rum and you get
a text message that says power outed. You're like, yeah,
I can see that. We don't know when it's going
to come back. But we're hoping sometime before and then
(39:51):
it's a bit like you know when Telstra tell you
when someone's coming, it'll be like sometime before two thirty
am or whatever, and maybe it will and maybe it won't.
And on Saturday afternoon it went out at about because
it was windy, was really windy down where we were,
and I think some power lines blew over. It went
out at about four and it was beginning to get dark,
and I had one of Billy's little friends came back
with us to stay over, and I was like, how
(40:12):
am I going to entertain this? Can't charge your phones,
can't charge your tech, so no screens, no lights.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You could go in the car and charge through you
if you've got to charge.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Luckily, our local and this is also lots of regional places.
Our local got our local pub and the club like
have gener yeah, yeah, because they know that the power
goes out a lot. So we all had to go
to the pub for dinner and then just hope it
was We came back to the house and it was
pitch black, and all anyone does is in the Facebook
groups is like, is your power out? Should power out?
(40:42):
Sho your power coming back? You know how local Facebook
groups or everything some powers back and ours wasn't, and
I was like, how am I going to entertain these kids?
And so we right, We've got a box that we
keep under the sync now that I've been nagging Brent
to do for ages. It's candles, torches, lamps because it
happened so often, and so we had all candles and stuff,
and I was like, it's going to be one of
those wholesome like we're going to wrap ourselves in doing
(41:04):
this because it's freezing and play board games or something,
and sang God that just before the board game was
cracked open, the lights came back on and we could
watch a movie, which is what we did. But the
board game dealow point, life's hard when there's no power.
I'm just putting it out there and shout out to
regional like louders who have to put up with that
more than most. My best though, was something that happened
(41:26):
when I was in the city. So I had a
couple of days off at the end of last week
and hung out with my family in Sydney and we
had a great time. And I did forget that I
was also going to recommend Twisters, which is the big
new action movie and Glenn Powell we went see that.
It was just so much fun and Glenn Powell, did
you like it? Brad Pitt from the nineties, one hundred
percent loved it great, very, very enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
So you saw that at Imax and it was like all.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Twisty green Yep. It was so much fun and the
kids loved it. We had a great time. So I
recommend that for a family outing. Then the next day
we did something much more cultural. I don't know anything
about art right, but I love portraits. So whenever I'm
in London, I always me and my friends will always
go to the National Portrait Gallery because it's got portraits
of like celebrities from now and then you know royals
(42:08):
from back in the day. And I portraits because I
love people and I love nosing that. The Archibald Prize
has been on at the Art Gallery of New South Wales,
which is a portrait competition and I've never ever been
in my whole life. Oh, I love the archim because
it's all portraits.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That's the only art that I can understand.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, portraits, and I love the diversity of it because
you'd think portraits are all going to look the same,
but they don't. So we went to the Archibald and
then this great thing happened, which is why it was
my best. My favorite portrait in there, because you can
all vote, was this piece by an artist called Natasha
Bienniek and it was called self Portrait with Florence and
(42:44):
it just, to use a wanky term, it just spoke
to me, right, I just loved this painting. And it's
a painting of a very tired mother holding a small child,
and it's just very detailed her paintings, as I discovered,
because she had another one in there, a very like realistic,
like very and it was really small and there was
(43:05):
just something about it that was so powerful. And so
I read the you know the thing me on the
side and Florence is her daughter. She calls her Flossy
and she's three. And what Natasha wrote in this thing
is she said, she follows me around the house and
yearns for my voice as she's falling asleep. I wanted
to make a painting that reflected the intensity of that bond.
And the painting is of a moment. I'm exhausted, I
(43:25):
haven't slept properly in years, and I'm trying to balance
my studio practice with parenting. At times, I found it
challenging to be a productive artist and an attentive mother,
and I think many working mothers find themselves in a
similar situation. No shit, she said, I wanted this painting
to continue the conversation and the thing is and the
reason this is my best That's exactly what I got
from it before reading the thing.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Do you know look in that you showed me before?
And I was just like reached into my heart. The
look on the mother's face and the very specific way
her daughter is sitting on yes, and.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
The look on the daughter's face, and there's so much
love in it. It's not like a wingy portrait, not
that the portrait could win. Do you anyway even better?
To make this my absolute best? I took a picture
of it. I put it on my Instagram and I
tagged Natasha and I said this was my favorite picture
in the archiebald I voted for it, and Natasha answered
and said, oh my god, I'm an out louder. Oh
(44:21):
I was sure, she said, I can't believe you're really
like my portrait. I'm so glad it spoke to you.
And she has another amazing painting in the Art Gally
of New South Wales called Bath, which is of her
cleaning a bath, which sounds but it's so good. Again.
She's very into like exploring domesticity and work and I
was like, I can't believe we have out loud as
that talented, except of course I can played all off.
(44:42):
I was like, that is amazing and it was my
best of the week and oh, that's hard. That's speaks
to you. You know, it sounds high for Luton, but
it's like it's just the stuff that makes.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
The wolf you felt seen.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
My worst is I've spoken before about my pop with
his dementia and just watching how quickly the deterioration happens.
And it wasn't that long ago that he was very
independent and very sharp and like really proud, and he
valued himself so much on being useful, like he was
a person that came over and helped with things. And
(45:17):
even I was there the other day. He got out
a high chair that he'd built because he's really like
carpentry and stuff, and he'd built that for my cousin
that was there, and Luna was in the high chair
and I just thought, oh, things have changed so much,
like he's Yeah, just watching someone disappear a bit in
front of you is quite confronting, and I think that
(45:37):
there's this tendency to want to look away because it's
really confronting. But at the same time you don't. There
must be such loneliness because he can't even recall, like
an hour later, he doesn't even know it's there, so
he must just feel lonely. Every minute, every minute must
be an eternity like it.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
That's kind so hard, And then you sort of say
to yourself, I've got a weekend, I've got limited amount
of time. Yeh, I'm going to go. He won't even
remember that I've been there. No, why am I going?
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
And my auntie who's just like he's a saint, like
she just cares for him, and it's you know, I
don't want to say thankless, but you know, there are
so many women in particular that are caring for parents
and it's just the hardest job in the world. My
best is I've got two quick ones. The first is
I've been trying to teach Luna sign language.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
I know she is one of those she's journey into
one like Hi, my daughter's going to be I've been
talented all the sign language.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
She's doing hs mad.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
But the thinking is right that it makes them less frustrated.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yes, that it can help you.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
No, I know, and I want to apologize. I sounded
so dismissive. Then there'll be lots of moms and parents
listening to this coverer. But it's like in my circles,
the moms who were teaching the sign language, they were
the very high level moms.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
You know what I'm saying, Alley, No one's teaching the
second kid the sign language.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I can.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Everyone's teaching the first kid the sign language. And that's
why I've got time. So I've been trying to teach
to her. It's just so funny. She looks at me like,
I don't know what you're doing. Then the other day,
Luca gives her a potato chip. Right, probably shouldn't give
a potato chip, but Alas that's where we were, gives
it to it and she ate it and she was
just overcome, right, and she's going mo, mo mo, like
I want more, and she's pointing and she's shaking her
(47:13):
arms around and she's like, dad's dad, how else do
I communicate to you that I would like that another one.
She then looks Luca in the eye, gets her sign
and she goes more. She's never said the word more before.
She says Mama, dad and nana.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
So it was the motivation that was yes, yes, she
just looked she did her things high value treat.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
And just went high value more like clear as anything.
And it was like she was out of her bag
of tricks and she won't you guys are gonna make
me do this?
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Aren't you must?
Speaker 3 (47:44):
And now she just every time she wakes up, it's
just more like constantly does.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
She think that means chips? Though she's doing it hoping that.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
We open her book, and she goes more like turn
the page, turn page. Honestly, have you ever met anyone
that's so clever? And my other best is that I
have been working on scripts like the last few months,
just a few television show things that anyone who knows
anything about the script stuff knows that you just got
(48:12):
probably won't get anywhere, It probably won't get made. All
of that might so you get it. To get to
the point where you've actually written a script is like
feels like an enormous achievement. And this week Claire and
I submitted the first script that we've kind of from
the beginning of the process to the end, wrote an episode,
wrote this pilot. I can't explain what kind of process
it was. It's the first creative process that I felt
(48:34):
like was easy. It was really weird.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Because it was just the two of you. This is strife,
which was a group thing and a different headwriter, and
you wrote one of the episodes together, but this was
yours from idea yeap all the way through.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
And it's comedy, and it was just like I felt
like I was writing bits to make clear laugh, and
then she would edit it to make me laugh. And
we just went back and forth, and I just I
looked at Luca last night and I said to him,
if I get the feedback that this is a piece
of shit that I don't want to make it, I
don't care because I just really enjoyed writing it, which
I've never had before. I've always been so tied to
the outcome. And I just kind of went.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
It's her atomic habits. I think it's she's learned to
appreciate the journey.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah, the journey, not the destination.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Yeah, So I'm feeling growing about it, Aren't I just an'?
I just so it's been a great week.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Before we go, I want to know what ship keeps
you up at night, because on yesterday's subscriber episode out Louders,
we shared the moments from our lives that we think
about at two am. I've actually thought of another one,
which I'm going to see. What's for another episode? I've
got another bad one. Oh, I've got another really bad one.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
I was being plagued by these embarrassing moments that I
just randomly wanted to share with you both and unpaw Yours.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Were funny and embarrassing and mine was just awful. If
you want to listen, there's a link in the show
notes and you can share your own embarrassing moments that
keep you awake at night.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Louders. Goodness a louder Friday, isn't it out Louders? Thank
you so much for being with us through another week.
We love hanging out with you and each other. Actually,
this episode is produced by the wonderful Emilyin and Gozillas.
There's been audio production by Leah Porge's so big thank
you to them too, and all of our creative team
and we will be back in your ears next week.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Shout out to any Mum and Mia subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way
to do so. There's a link in the episode description
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