May 16, 2025 • 46 mins
A very famous woman has talked us through her boob job online, and... it’s spon con. Discount code and all. Is this really what we’re doing now?
Also on today's ep, tree huggers (including Holly), are going to love this one. 'Minge on a tree' is a new internet trend and WTF does that even mean?
Plus, a whistleblower’s memoir, a fix for your face and a very useful newsletter: it's recommendations.
And our Best & Worsts, including Mia’s missed deadlines, a very icky sexy guy, and Jessie's competitive TV meltdown.
What To Listen To Next:
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- Listen: The Most Mocked Woman In The World
- Listen: What If Love Never Finds You?
- Listen: Mia On The Met Gala 2025 – Fashion, Lore & Drama
- Listen: WTF Just Happened? The Election, Prince Harry & Nagi
- Listen: Mia On The Met Gala 2025 – Fashion, Lore & Drama
What to read:
- 'Stepford Skin' is why all your fave celebs look the same as they did 20 years ago.
- The big problem with plastic surgeons weighing in on what 'work' celebrities have had done.
- This 22-year-old shared her skincare method online. People were horrified.
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Credits
Hosts: Mia Freedman, Jessie Stephens & Holly Wainwright
Group Executive Producer: Ruth Devine
Executive Producer: Emeline Gazilas
Audio Producer: Leah Porges
Video Producer: Josh Green
Junior Content Producers: Coco & Tessa
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
If we aren't allowed to notice that women who are
in their forties and fifties and even sixties look like
they're in their twenties and thirties, if we're not even
allowed to notice that and wonder how they've done it,
then what effect does that have on us?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud and to
our Friday show. Where as you know, we don't have
anything to do with the news, nothing at all. We
just have a good time today today, not today today,
It's Friday, the sixteenth of May. And I'm Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And again we're coming to you from the roads, the
roads seamless so far. Friends, Again, we're coming to you
from the road. So forgive us if we're a little
bit glitchy. But friends, how good was Bristolle on Wednesday night?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh Brisbane, you always deliver. You are possibly the most
unhinged trap we play too, but in the best way,
in the best way.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
They're always so much fun. We always go you know
who'd love this Brisbane and indeed they do.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Tomorrow night we're in Sydney and next Thursday we're in Melbourne,
so we will see you next week. But on today's show,
a very famous woman has talked us through her boob
job online and it's spon con. Is this what we're
doing now? We've got recommendations including a whistleblower's memoir, a
(01:45):
Fix for Your Face, and a very useful newsletter, and
are best of worse, which are a very icky sexy guy,
MIA's Missing Deadlines and Jesse's TV meltdown. It's our best
and worst of the week. But first, Mia.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Fes, you missed it. There is a new thing that
you can do on the weekend to heal yourself and
get back to nature, and it's called putting you in
on a tree. Pardon I love everything about this story now.
Minge is an affectionate form of slang for vagina or volva,
(02:19):
whatever you want to call it. I think it's a
British thing. Hole is it it is?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I don't know that affection is the world, but let's
go with it. Let's go with it.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
We're going to reclaim it in the same way we've
reclaimed the C word. Victoria Emes is a comedian. She's
an online mum mate, and she's got a fitness app
called Fitbitches. She makes a lot of content and she
has shown something that she likes to do and suggested
that maybe it would benefit all of us. Here's a
little grab of the reel that she recently posted.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
But have you got your minge around the tree recently?
Because I'm good a vouch for this. This is one
of the most healing things that you can do. All
you need a tree and a minge.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Now we just need to adopt a sort of very
comfortable position there, arms right.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Round, give it a big squeeze.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
And then, if you like, if you're feeling fruity, little kiss,
just to say thanks love nature for being such a beautiful, wondrous.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I just, oh, is anyone else marry me?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Absolutely sold?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Now I know this isn't a visual medium, So in
case you're just listening to this, I need to point
out a couple of things. First of all, she's not naked,
because we don't want to get splinters in our bits.
Not good. Secondly, she sort of just like hugs the
tree and presses herself into it. She don't hump the tree.
It's not aggressive if there's no thrusting. It's just like
(03:53):
you know, some people talk about earthing. They go and
take off their shoes and they stand on the ground.
This is just connecting your lady parts to mother Nature.
I think it's actually quite beautiful.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I don't want to be disrespectful to royalty, but Princess
Kate's been talking a lot lately about how nature has
helped her get through a difficult time. Yeah, and I'm
wondering if this is the next logical step for all
of us who love a bit of a tree hug
is to take the relationship from platonic to romantic. I
think I can see it in my future. I do.
I actually am one of those tree huggers. When I
(04:24):
see a beautiful tree in nature, I ask it for permission. No,
you don't a big squeeze. I love trees like I
love trees. So this lady has just opened up a
whole new world for me.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
And I think it is critical as you say that
it is done with pants on, or at least under
pants on, because there's splinters, but there's also ants bark
that could get lodged, and then you might need to
go to the emergency room, and we don't want that.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Maybe it would pecker be careful of those.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
A bird, a worm. None of that's fun. But I
will say that I feel as though we keep making
up fancy words and fancy practices for just go outside
and engage somewhat with nature, which I think is always
just a good thing. You'll feel better, whether it's your
minge on a tree, whether it's your fate on the grass.
(05:14):
It's just nice to go out and reconnect with the
world around us.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It is just remember to keep your ecosystems to yourself.
You need the tree to keep their ecosystem over there,
and we keep our ecosystems in our pants. They don't
need to merge.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Actress Selma Hayek has a new neck, Australian influencer Inde
Clinton has a new nose, and Megan Trainer has new boobs.
One woman is taking us along for the journey, another
is an ambassador for a brand new non invasive treatment,
and the third is posting sponsored content encouraging anyone motivated
(05:51):
to make a change of their own to visit a
board certified plastic surgeon near you. Let's start Withindy Clinton.
She's got three kids, she's got two point one million
followers on Instagram, She's massive on TikTok, and she rose
to fame because she's sort of the antithesis to the
bar and Bay Earth mother aesthetic. She was very real
(06:12):
about the chaos of motherhood anyway. Recently, she made the
decision to get a rhinoplasty to resolve an injury after
a surfing accident, and when she first announced it to
her followers, this was after she'd done it, she was
visibly shaking. She explained that she didn't want to tell them,
but they were going to be able to see it,
so she wanted to be upfront without actually promoting the procedure.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
I don't want to talk about this. I would rather
just do this and hide it because I don't want
to promote this, and I don't want to sound like
I'm promoting this because I'm doing this for myself. I
am getting my nose done next month a rhinoplastic surgery.
I don't know if I'm going to post my recovery
and all of that, like throughout that. I haven't decided
that yet, just because I'm not trying to monetize off
(06:55):
this or anything, I genuinely just want to get it done,
recover and move on with my life.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Seems reasonable. Then there's Salmahayek, a fifty eight year old
actress who is now an ambassador full a non invasive
skin tightening and lifting tree she uses on her neck,
and she get this interview with The Cut where she
said she felt like she'd started to look and this
is a quote like a turkey, but didn't want to
go under the knife. But here's where things get a
(07:21):
little murky. A few months ago, singer Meghan Trainer posted
sponsored content on Instagram for a breast augmentation and lift.
Here's a little bit of what she said.
Speaker 7 (07:31):
It's Meghan Trainer and I've got some big news to share.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yep, I got my moves done.
Speaker 7 (07:36):
As you know, I'm in a super busy chapter of
my life. I've been touring, working and mummying really hard.
So recently I've decided to do something just for me.
I got a breastlift and augmentation. Finally, after having two kids,
living a healthier lifestyle and losing weight, I couldn't be happier.
Speaker 8 (07:56):
With my decision. I am so obsessed.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
The music makes it sound really fun.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I started off going, Yeah, I'm into this, that's fine,
and then when she started going into quite a lot
of details about the specifics of the actual implants, I
started to feel a bit icky.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yes, so this is also in among sponsored content for
laundry detergent and Elf cosmetics. And then the natural progression is,
of course her breast implants.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You know what I was confused about, Jesse. She was
wearing a cardigan buttoned up to the neck all the
way through the video, and I kept being like, and
I'm not proud of myself with this. Show me the boobs,
show us your tits, show me the boobs I'm imagining.
And obviously this is conjecture that in the negotiation she
would have been like, I will do sponkn for your boobs,
(08:40):
but I will be keeping all my clothes on.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You would think the client would say, we want the
product front and center, we want that to be really highlighted,
get the boobs out, But no, she has it's a negotiation.
I guess a line in the sand. How celebrities do
or don't talk about the work they have done is
something they and the rest of the culture is navigating
in real time. Does advertising invasive surgery to your eighteen
(09:04):
point three million followers as though it is nothing more
than a new bra feel weird to you too?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Maya? Do you know who I was thinking about when
you started talking about this is Julia Morris because she
got and it's called an upper bleph for a plasty
where you basically get your eyelids a bit chopped out
of your eyelids so they're not so droopy, very common procedure. Now,
she wasn't sponsored, but she was very transparent about it.
And the thing is that when you've got the demands
(09:32):
of social media and people with public profile, people will
notice and comment if you look different. And then there
are some people like Indick Clinton who publish content all
the time, and if she was going to try to
hide something, she'd have to not post anything for two weeks.
So I always I'm in favor of transparency. I think
transparency is great. Where it gets a little bit conflicting
(09:55):
is when it's sponsored. And listening to that was really
helpful listening to that because I found what Julia Morris
did really helpful.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
When you've got.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Salma Hayek and Meghan Traina being paid to say stuff.
It's really easy to infuse that with their actual personal testimonial.
But a breast augmentation and lift is a really big deal.
I've had friends who've had even just reductions and any
kind of surgery. There's a lot of recovery and it's
always a lot more than you think it's going to be.
(10:26):
And obviously that gets brushed down into the carpet because
when you're sponsored, you only talk about the good stuff.
So I feel like maybe I like the transparency part
of it, but it's not completely transparent because it just
really is spin.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I agree with me or on that, because we should
be clear that here in Australia we actually have very
strict regulations about what you can and can't promote when
it comes to cosmetic procedures and even some cosmetic products
like sunscreen. So this isn't necessarily all content that you
would be able to see in quite the same way here.
But that's the problem is that we all know and
(11:03):
everybody does know this. I think we've become much more
digitally literate around this, but.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Hol I've got a question, we do see it here
right because they go on social media and talk about it.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You do see it here, but there are very strict rules.
So there are some brand names you can't use, there
are some things you cannot advocate for. You can say
that you've used it, but you can't necessarily say that
it worked. Like there's a lot of different guidelines around it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
But we can still see what Meghan Trainer says and
what Sama says, right, Like, it's not blocked in Australia.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
No, no, it's not blocked, but that's not Australian approved content,
got it. It wouldn't be approved here. But the thing
is is for exactly the reasons that you say that,
we know that when you make a deal to do
sponsored content, whatever it is, you agree what you are
and aren't going to say. It doesn't mean that it's
not honest to a point, but it means that you
might airbrush certain things, and that is clearly what's going
(11:54):
on here. I don't really have a problem with it,
except for the fact that it clearly signals a mainstreaming
of quite serious procedures. But I think that's happening anyway.
Like I think that things that we used to think
were quite extreme, whether that be injections or weight loss
drugs or whatever. We used to maybe think we're sort
(12:14):
of for the one percent. As that trickles down and
becomes more available and cheaper and more democratized, then of
course everybody wants to find new ways to sell it
to you. I don't know, it still feels strange to
be like, I remember when Gwyneth Paltrow didn't out now
add for a particular type of anti wrinkle injector that
she was claiming was more natural than some others, and
(12:37):
listening to it, and I think we've got a grab.
We can plain in a bit. But it's jarring because
you're just like, oh, you're actually selling me things to
put inside myself. It just feels a bit icky, but
I think it's inevitable.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
I ad met I wasn't a fan of anti wrinkle injections.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Then I found one.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's different, one that's uniquely purified.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It does feel like we're going that way, and I'm
with Maya that the stakes feel a lot higher when
someone is going under an anesthetic and we know about
things like breast implant illness. Right as you say, what
we're not seeing with Megan Trainer is the recovery. In fact,
(13:20):
she's saying it was really quick, it was really easy.
I couldn't believe how good I felt. And you think, well,
if it wasn't any of those things, you wouldn't really
be able to say. I feel quite differently about Samahayak though,
because it's non invasive, and I'm grappling with where my
line is and why. And it made me think of
(13:42):
there were a few Australian influences a few years ago
who worked with a very famous Australian cosmetic surgeon. It
was very unclear whether they got discounted treatments in exchange
for maybe collaborating or sharing their image, and there were
tummy tucks and breast augmentation, and they cited this particular
(14:05):
doctor and he now has a class action suit out
against him.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Do you mean from women who had procedures that didn't
go very.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Well, exactly right, really really serious complications and really serious allegations.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
It's easier to think, oh, you know, it's all great
and I had it and blah blah blah, and what
the internet doesn't always show the reality.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
You're right, and it feels different. I remember Kelly McCarron,
who is the host of New Beauty and is on
a bunch of Mum Maya podcasts. She a few years
ago showed a realistic recovery from a nose job. I
had never seen anything like that. It was so candid.
It was the bruising, it was the packing, it was
(14:46):
the months of recovery. The honesty was so refreshing because
she wasn't trying to sell us anything, which I think
to your point, Mea is Julia Morris as well. There's
a transparency to that. But when your message has to
be filtered because you're being paid, and we also don't
(15:07):
know the specifics of the co tract right, like were
you going to get this surgery anyway? Was a surgery
paid for or you then paid on top for all
of those things. I think we kind of have to
know if we're going to get spon con for having
your body cut open.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, it's a bit ethically murky, isn't it. It was
interesting because a couple of weeks ago and halfaway turned
up at a fashion show in Paris, and there was
a lot of talk on the internet about her having
a new face, and there were cosmetic surgeons who had
not operated on her and she has not made any
comment about it. But in the same way that people
(15:45):
apply their forensic lenses to true crime stories, people also
do that to the faces of women in the public
eye often. And there were a whole lot of postmade
and cosmetic surgeons coming out and saying here's what I
think she's had done, and this and this and this,
and then there were close ups of what people said
was some filler in her jaw, and everyone was trying
(16:06):
to figure it out.
Speaker 8 (16:06):
We need to talk about and Hathaway's facial changes, because
she is looking exceptional. This is her yesterday and she's
looking different. So let's talk about what I think she's
had done. This is Anne in two thousand and seven,
and she's always been well known to have very elegant
and feminine looking features that are well proportioned. In twenty
twenty three, we can see some very subtle signs of
aging in the mid and lower face now at the
(16:27):
age of forty two. To achieve this appearance, I think
she's had botox, a surgical browlift, upper blephoplasty, rhinoplasty, lit filler,
and within the last nine to twelve months, possibly a
deep plane face and necklift.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
There's two ways to look at it. There's the way
of saying, well, that's really mean we should just not
talk about women's faces and we should leave women alone,
and I totally get that. Then there's the idea that
if we aren't allowed to notice that women who are
in their forties and fifties and even sixties look like
they're in their twenties and thirties, if we're not even
allowed to notice that and wonder how they've done it,
(17:05):
then what effect does that have on us?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I understand the reluctance to say specifically what you've had done, though,
because what is your line between transparency and BBC and
well and being instructive? Right because Indy Clinton, for example,
was trying to be very clear, I've had this done
some reasons I'll share with you, maybe some reasons that
aren't any of our business, but I'm not telling you
(17:29):
that you need a nose job. And you could see
with Meghan Trainer's messaging it was a bit like I saw.
I'm wondering if it was Megan Note with someone else
I saw who had done spon con with Maybe it
was light posuction and they had a part of their
caption that said, if something bothers you three times a day,
change it, and I thought, oh, that is so that
(17:52):
so toxic.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Meghan's message is interesting because it's when she says, you know,
I'm working really hard and I'm mumming really hard, and
I wanted to do something just for me. It's like
repositioning surgery or self care. That's really interesting too. But
to Hathaway. The thing that I have an issue with
about that is I think that it's an entirely different
thing when people tell you what they're doing or they're
(18:16):
open about it, all those things to being forensically invasive
on a woman's face, like we have no idea what
Unhathaway did to her face or if she did anything
to her face. And everybody's there with their zoom in's
and their circles, and these days, you know, the A list,
the pinnacle of beauty. The people we hold up as
a pinnacle beauty have access to all As I just said,
(18:38):
that will all trickle down eventually, but they have access
to things we don't even know about, and they're getting
all kinds of infusions and injections and peptides and this
and that, and it's like, what do we want from them,
you know, do we want X rays and blood types?
And like, it's just I do have a problem with
acause I think it turns up the surveillance on every woman,
which we already weighs really heavily on us.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
All.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
How do you two feel about this?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
If you went to Megan Trainer's link in bio where
she will tell you all about the implant trademark, blah
blah blah. Is there a disc code, mayor there's a
discount code? Oh, you too can get two hundred and
fifty dollars off your breast augmentation. Oh how do you
feel about that?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Not good?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I don't feel good because then, also, what responses if
I go and get her discount code and use it
and my boob job goes horribly wrong, or I die
under an esthetic or something happens. What is her responsibility there? Like,
I know, legally probably nothing, but ethically encouraging someone to
(19:42):
have cosmetic surgery. Yeah with a discount code. Wow, out louders.
In a moment, something for your face, something smart to watch,
and an audio book that Holly's got inter ears right
now in his recommendations, outlauders, we've got a listener dilemma,
and we need your collective wisdom to help us and
(20:03):
our partners at UI solve it. So here's the problem
from our listener. I'm a mother to a beautiful three
month baby. My partner and I decided before our child
was born that we wouldn't share photos on social media
for privacy reasons. We made this very clear to both
our families, including my mother in law. Last week, I
was scrolling through Facebook when I discovered she's posted dozens
of photos of our baby, including bathtime pictures and private
(20:27):
family moments. And when I reminded her of our rule,
she just left it off, saying everyone loves seeing the
photos and that she's just a proud grandmother. My partner
doesn't want to cause family drama and suggested we let
it go let them. But yesterday I noticed she's created
a dedicated my Precious Grandchild album that she regularly updates.
(20:48):
I value our relationship, but this feels like she's completely
ignoring our wishes as parents. But the question is what
do you do next?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I have the answer. I have the definitive answer. I
don't even need your input. Do you want know what
it is?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Please your husband, partner, even you, if you want to.
When she is not looking, you take her phone, take
her phone, you change her settings, and you change her
settings on Facebook so that a select group of people
can see those photos. Just make sure that it's super private.
Maybe it's a few family members, or maybe it's the
one hundred friends that she has on Facebook, and no
(21:22):
one else can see it, and then you move on
with your life. It's coming from a really good place.
She's very proud. I understand the reluctance, because you go,
I don't know whose hands these photos are going to
end up in. I totally get it. But years ago,
I think the four of us kids went on to
Mum's Facebook tweaked a few settings. She got upset. She said,
(21:44):
no one's like I'm a post anymore. And I was like,
you can't imagine why. I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And stevens, my engagements dropped and not happy.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It must be the algorithm. No, no, no, we fiddled
with your settings. Sometimes you need a little settings fiddle
to solve family drama.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's really good advice. It's much better than mine, because
I was just going to make you a partner, go
and have a fight with his mother, Yours is much better,
much better. Advice out loud as what would you do?
Share your thoughts in the Mama Mia outloud Facebook group
and also share any dilemmas that you want our help
with in the Facebook group or email us at out
loud at momamea dot com dot au.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
weekend with our very best recommendations. Who wants to go first?
I'll go first. You know how I'm loving audiobooks at
the moment, particularly memoir right. For me, audiobooks are at
their absolute best when it comes to memoirs.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I want to ask you about that because I agree
I struggle with fiction on audiobooks.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It really depends on the voice. So I've listened to
Demon Copperhead, which is one of my favorite ever books.
I listened to that as fiction and they have this
amazing actor. Lots of people are saying they enjoy our
fiction Jesse on audio because I guess they're already audio
trained people. But it's all about the act. But I
agree with Youmir that for me, nonfiction and memoir in
(23:14):
particular is really good in audio. So I'm listening to
a very famous Ish book. It's been out for a while.
Mea recommended it to me weeks ago, called Careless People,
and it's by a New Zealand woman called Sarah Williams.
If it sounds familiar to you, but you're not sure why,
it would have been roundly promoted as the fact that
(23:35):
she was the Facebook whistleblower. So Sarah win Williams is
a young Ish Kiwi as I said, young idealistic woman
who wanted desperately to go and work at Facebook in
its early days. In its earliest days, she'd already managed
to get her way to Washington, d C. Where she
was working as a diplomat in the New Zealand Embassy,
a job which she said was not that busy really,
because no one cared about New Zealand in America. These
(23:58):
are her words, not mine. And she saw this shiny
citadel of you know, new media and social media and
thought what it could do for democracy and all this stuff,
and went to work there right. What follows is an
account of basically her working at relatively high levels at Facebook.
She became their kind of international envoy. So she was
the person who had to go into Myanmar, for example,
(24:21):
and try and talk the government into allowing Facebook to
be open there, or you know, introduced Mark Zuckerberg to
presidents of various countries, greased the wheels of international diplomacy,
and over her time there, that job becomes bigger and
bigger as Facebook's influence grows. Now, that's all great, but
it doesn't sound that sexy. But this book, in my opinion,
(24:43):
is so well written and so sexy that it works
on lots of different levels. It also is the story
of an idealistic, workaholic young woman who absolutely loves her job,
coming slap bang up to the reality of what it
means to work that hard when then you have a family,
and suddenly, like Sheryl Samberg's telling her that she needs
to hire a nanny and stop talking about her baby
(25:04):
in the office, she comes up against all kinds of
slightly strange sexual innuendo. She's expected to put herself in
harm's way and put the job above all things. Ever,
her husband starts going, what are you doing with your life?
And it's just I just loved it.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Can I just ask? Because I've listened to a few
interviews with her, and I'm gonna be honest, sometimes instead
of reading the book, I just listened to podcast interviews
with authors where I'm interested in their work. Do you
think this is a book where it's worth actually listening
to the whole book.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Well, for me, it is, because I'd listened to podcast
interviews too. And the thing is that, obviously we know
this because we conduct podcast interviews. You can't get everything in,
so you choose an angle and go with it. Obviously,
there's really interesting, deep stuff here about Facebook's responsibility in
political situations in developing countries, So if you're interested in that,
it's there. But the stuff that really grabbed me more
(25:54):
was the personal stuff and the personal cost and also
the process of watching, like the scales fall from someone's eyes.
What did you think, Mia, Yeah, it took quite a long.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Time for the scales to fall. I really liked it
at first. I agree it's written in a really engaging way,
and we should say, of course, Facebook have said a
lot of the book is not true, and there are
parts of.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
The book that is true, but they've tried to block it.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
There's been legal action and tried to stop her from
doing interviews about it. Tried to get it poulped I
also have read from you know, some journalists who just
have discredited her a little bit. But I think it's
a really interesting story because it's the story about a
time like she's in the room where it happens, or
she was in the room where it happens at a
(26:37):
time when Facebook went from a sort of a social
media app to being a global superpower. She was there
in that transition and worked very closely with Cheryl, and
when Cheryl became Cheryl Sandberg and threw lean in the
launch of Leanin, and.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
She's actually very funny about that. Mia. When Cheryl's promoting
lean in, all the female Facebook executives and there aren't
actually that many at that point, I have to help her.
They have to turn up to all the launches and
do all the jobs that Cheryl basically says women shouldn't
do when they're at work, like hand out the name
tags off around the cup and she's like, hold on,
I like an international diplomat. It's very funny. But she's pregnant,
(27:14):
so she's really good vision.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
She's great, and she has to try and get the
world leaders to be photographed next to Cheryl holding Cheryl's books.
Chinese president stuff anyway, and you know there's some salacious
stuff in there about like Mark Zuckerberg offering to name
his firstborn after President she in China. But it's really interesting.
I have to say I didn't finish it. I was
(27:37):
listening also on audiobook, and I got about two thirds
of the way and then I just it was feeling
a little bit repetitive to me, and I sort of
wandered off. But it's definitely if you're interested in tech
and that world. It's not too techy, but a kind
of a real life, funny business memoir. It's pretty gripping.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Maya, what's your recommendation.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
My recommendation is a moisturizer. I have, as out loud
as may know, been struggling with roseasia for the last
year or so, which is so boring. I've been having
bits of laser for it. Here's my discount code. No,
but something that my dermatologist recommended, because when you've got
roseasia and your skin feels sore and irritated, what you
(28:18):
think you want to do is to put really sort
of thick, calming heavy creams on it, or oils or
something because it can feel sort of so sore, but
that's actually terrible for it. You need to not put
heavy creams or oils on roseatia skin when it's flaring up.
So there's a product by laroche Pose called Toleran probably
(28:41):
you say it in French, and it's basically for rosetia.
It's called visible redness reducing cream. I've had to pretty
much stop using serums or anything on my cheeks, which
is thanks for your sympathetic I know, I know, I
see them too hard, and it's not something that really
goes away. It's just something that you have to kind
(29:02):
of adapt to, and so it's really blown up my
whole skin routine. But in the day, this Tolerian by
Lauchep is just a really good calming thing to put
under makeup, to put you know, it's pretty much the
only skincare I can news on my cheeks now. Anyway.
You can just get it from the chemist. Lauris Pose
is a great basic brand for anyone particular who's got
sensitive skin issues. It's not prescription or anything, but like
(29:24):
any skincare, check the label to make sure it's the
right thing for you. Don't take my word for it,
and there is no discarnt code.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
My recommendation this week is a newsletter, and it is
the newsletter I've noticed that I always open, so I
subscribed a while ago out loud as might remember, especially
during pregnancy, I got very into Emily Osta. And Emily
Osta she is the patron saint of pregnant women. She
is a woman who gives you all the data on
(29:52):
how much coffee you can drink, what exercise to do
during pregnancy. And she does all of that because she
has a PhD in economics from Harvard.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So she vibes than not vibes.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
It is all data. And if you are a data
driven person who just wants the information given to you plainly,
without opinion, without spin, and without being sold anything, then
Emily Ostra is brilliant. So she has this newsletter. It's
called parent Data. She said an email the other week
which was called why are autism rates going up? And
(30:27):
no opinion, no judgment, nothing. It's really really topical in
the US at the moment because of the way that
the Make America Healthy Again movement has co opted conversations
around autism. And she just presented what the data says,
what the data says about whether it's a case of
(30:48):
more diagnoses, whether it is more people are being born
with autism. She really goes into it and presents it
very plainly.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
What does she say? What's the reason?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I mean, and this is a thing about data is
that it's quite complex, But essentially she says that it's both.
She kind of acknowledges the vaccine thing and just says
there is no data anywhere to suggest that vaccines cause autism,
and then she kind of goes on with it. It's
not an opinion, it's just like, I can give you
all of these studies, and she says that the definition
(31:20):
of autism changed and since then you've got a lot
of people that you know, the scope of people and
obviously people being diagnosed later in life, but that it
also looks like and this is difficult for data to
actually identify, but it does look like there are more
people who are being born with these particular issues, and
da data, I won't do it justice, but I found
it really really enlightening. And then she had a great
(31:42):
infographic recently that I sent a friend. It was like
a graph about how many times on average children wake
up overnight, so you know, in the first few months.
Let's say it's an average of three times in an
internet age where you only hear the horror stories and
it seems like no child ever sleeps. It is so
refreshing to see that and go for most families by
(32:04):
the time a child is too they're sleeping through the night.
Like she's just very, very matter of fact, love her work.
She'd one on the best way to discipline a child again,
throwing in all the data, She'll say, we don't know
about this. We know that smacking isn't great, that kind
of thing, like, she's just fantastic. So that's parent data
by Emily Osta. A bit off. It's behind a pay wall,
(32:26):
but I don't pay for it. I just get the
free ones and I find them fantastic. After the break,
we share the highs and lows of our week in
Best and Worst.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
of the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week. And a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's time for Best and Worse. This is the part
of the show where we share a little bit about
our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst this week?
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So it's a bit of a tongue in cheek worst,
but I really need to workshop it, particularly with Mia,
and that is that I recorded an episode of Mid
this week, which, as many outlouders would probably know, is
the other podcast I host conversations for gen X women
who are anything but where I got my style roasted.
So it was an episode about fashion and clothes and
(33:32):
I did it with this amazing woman called Grace Lamb,
who we actually had on the last season of Mid
talking about hormones. But she is a former editorial director
at Vogue. She's a real fashion guru type who now
lives back in Australia. She's lived all over the world
and she advises women, particularly slightly older women over forties
women about what touet?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
What did she say?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So I sent her, as part of my homework for this,
a million selfies of me in various outfits. Right, So
I sent her all these mirror selfies that I've taken
over the last couple of years of like me thinking
I look great going to work. She was like, and
I don't want to give it all away, but she
was like, and this SWE need me as feedback. She
(34:15):
told me first of all, to cut my hair short, short, short,
like short, short, short.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Short like how short?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Little Bob Holly, the little bomb is what she basically
told me to do.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Also told me to throw away my red shoes.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh shots fired.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
She told me that my jeans, my obsession with my
wide legg jeans is fine, but they should be even wider.
And so the reason I need to ask me about
this is that are there some people who just really
want you to be cool but maybe you're not? So
I was like, I came off the call and it
was really fun, so it's a tongue in TWI. I
(34:55):
was also like, oh wow, all the things I thought, like,
you know, I love my long hair and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You know, well I think I do don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Any what do you think me? I should I be listening?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
This is my view about style. If anyone is happy
with their style, I don't think you should force someone
to change it. But if you're in that kind of
in between where you just don't quite feel right in yourself,
Because when we say we've got nothing to wear. We
just mean our clothes don't match how we want to feel.
(35:28):
And you have been talking about whether it's getting a
fringe or getting a haircut or I don't know what
to do with my hair or whatever. So it's not
like that's out of the blue, you know what I
mean if you were like, oh no, I love my hair.
Like I know some people who their hair is their thing,
and even if it might look better a different way,
they're really happy with it and it's a very strong
part of their identity in which case have at it
(35:49):
don't change anything, but it depends what you want. I
love hearing what people think I should do or where
or how I should look, and then you decide which
of those things you'll take and which you won't.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
It's interesting that episode will come up soon. I can't
wait for Out Loudest to weigh in and Mea to
weigh in. But I was like excited, me I would.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
That's my dream.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
It was fun. It was fun my best And this
is controversial because I know not everybody agrees, but I
have been watching videos of Walton Goggins on SNL.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Is he good?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
And it has been making my life. Walton Goggins, as
many of us know, is the guy, the controversial guy
on White ladis Rick. The internet became briefly obsessed with
him as a kind of anti sex symbol sex symbol,
and I have to say, I'm kind of on that team.
And then he hosted SNL this week, and look, I'm
(36:44):
like many people, I don't love love SNL, but I
do like the way we consume it now, which is
just short clips of the best bits. And in the
introduction he gets his mother up out of the audience
and they dance together, and then he does this like
cloggy tap dance and nothing has ever been hotter in
my life. Can Daan love that guy? He makes me
(37:05):
so happy.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
God, he can dance, and he's very confident, and he's
a bit where they say, people keep asking me how
it feels to suddenly be a sex symbol at fifty three,
and he's like, I have to be honest, it feels
fucking fantastic. And I'm like, I bet it does. Want
And I know that people think that maybe he did
something with a that, but we don't know. It's all
pure speculation. I don't know what it is about him,
(37:29):
but I may have been watching that on repeat.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Do you know what's funny is that I didn't see
it when he was on White Lotus, like because it
was his character. I wasn't familiar with him as an actor,
and I've found because I'm not attracted to depressed, sleazydoo people,
that's just not my vibe. And I know I've got
a lot of friends who are who would be like, oh,
get their nickers off for him immediately, like the character
(37:54):
of Rick. But when I've seen him on like the
met Galla Red Carpet and then clips from SNL, He's
looked really happy and I can see the sexy, I
can see the appeal because the darkness I've found just
a complete turn off. But yeah, he does look like
he's having the time of his life.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I think he's very polarizing, isn't he, Because some women
are just like, Eh, get him away from me, and
other women are like, oh, and I'm afraid, yeah, you're.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
That guy me or what's your worst?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
My worst is that I have been struggling with deadlines.
Someone said something about me just offhandedly in a joky
way a few weeks ago that really hit because it's
something that i've been feeling kind of insecure about They
said something about making announcements and not following through, not
executing on things, and I know that's something I do,
(38:40):
and I hate it about myself. And the reason that
I'm very suited to digital media and before that, magazines
is because they were externally imposed deadlines. Like in magazines,
the magazine has to get on the stands whether you're
ready or not, so I liked that. When I'm in
charge of my own time, I find that much much
more challenging. And because there's this project I've been bloody
(39:02):
talking about for so long, and there's other things that
I want to do, there's no deadline for them. And
you know, when you just don't do something for a
really long time, it just all the energy drains out
of it, and then suddenly you look at it and
you go, oh, I don't really even want to do
you anymore. I missed the window to jump through when
I was feeling really motivated, So I've been struggling with
that for a while. But my best is that I
(39:25):
have jumped through that window and made myself accountable and
moved forward with a whole lot of things that I
wanted to do. And just getting them out of my head.
Oh that feeling of I should, I should, I should
That's why I stopped writing books, because it's like, oh,
I should do that, I should, I should, And then
every minute that you're not working, you feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Tell me how you did it, Tell me how you
made yourself accountable. Did you have a trick? Did you
give yourself a deadline? Did you get someone else to
give you a deadline? Because I reckon this is really common.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah I did. I was in a meeting with other
people and I said give me a deadline because they're like,
what is this thing that you've been talking about? And
I'm like, oh, I just need to do this. So
I told them to give me a deadline, and I
just last weekend sat down and just did it. And
it felt so good. Sometimes I trick myself and I say,
I'm just going to do it for twenty minutes. So
(40:17):
I started by doing that, you know, with a little
Pomedora timey can just do it on your phone. You
just go look. After twenty minutes, I can stop. And
then the thing is that it's the starting that's the
hard part. Once I was actually doing it, I got
really into it, but I just find it hard to
get into flow. So that's been my week, Jesse, What
about you?
Speaker 3 (40:34):
My worst is starting the cleanout that you can't finish.
I'm doing a lot of cleaning out at the moment.
And I was looking at my bathroom cupboard and I went, look,
my medication is too high. My moisturizer is I can
never get it. I'm going to do all of this.
And I had it written down last week on my
to do list. I went, that's your weekend job. You're
(40:55):
going to clean out your cupboard. And I was a
particular person on Saturday morning that I no longer recognize.
But I got up and I went and I'd had
a coffee and just went, yeah, we're going to do it,
and you know, get Lerner involved, like it can be
a whole family affair. So I take everything out and
then I looked at it and went, oh, no, yeah,
(41:15):
it's gone. It's gone. That person has left the building.
She's gone on a plane. I don't know where she is.
But I have no desire to do this because I
think that the payoff isn't even that great. All it
is is that I can find my moisturizer. But I
can find my moisturizer now it's just in the scene.
So now it's still there, and we're a week later,
(41:36):
and I'm finding it very difficult to wash my hands
because there's a lot of things. And I put it
on Instagram and a lot of people said just throw
it out or put it in a bag, or just
shove it back in. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Just shove it back in, just put it exactly where
you got it from.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
That's how I feel about my fridge. You know, very
often I'll get home, I might have been away for
a couple of days, and the fridge is just like oh,
and I'm like, if I was rich, I'd just buy
another fridge.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
And it's like there are two hair elastics, two retainers,
a clip, and an empty bottle of something, And I'm like,
who am I to know where these things should go?
I don't have the mental capacity to work out the
positioning of any of these things. I might just leave
my house, burn it to the ground, and just move on.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
See that's when I just go onto Amazon and go
you know what I really need is some containers, some
crylic things to organize. Instead of actually organizing my life,
I'll like download an app, or I'll buy a storage container,
or I'll go to office works because that feels easier
and more interesting than actually doing their thing. Do you
(42:43):
know what will help you is well, you could try
the twenty minutes method, but also if you've got a
deadline to do something else that's actually important, and suddenly, yes,
you'll go you know what, I really should be cleaning
out my compas.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
That's what I need to do. And someone say if
I leave it there for long enough, LUKEA will just
throw it out, which I think is actually correct.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Sign another book deal.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
This has been like a procrastinator support.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Yeah, oh yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
So my best is that this week I was on
a television show on the ABC called House of Games.
I filmed it a few months ago now and it
has only just come out. It's hosted by Claire Hooper
and I was on with Rays Nicholson, Gillian Cosgrove and Costa.
After Costa is just such a.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Lit He's just a human ray of sunshine.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
His clothes are so cool. He has like overalls with
flowers on them. Holly, I think that's your fashion icon.
I think you should go to Costa for style.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Do you know, I met him on the red carpet
at the Logis. He's had his whole beard decorated with flowers.
He had all flowers and he had on a flower crown.
He looked incredible.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
See that's you, Holly. You just need flowers in your
head and in your beard, right. And the thing about
this show was that it was like the most extreme
version of exposure therapy I've ever done, because what I
discovered while on set was that I have a pathological
fear of losing and a pathological fear of looking stupid.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
But you're so competitive. What were the rules of the game?
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So they were games that and you can see it.
Lucra and I have been watching some of the episodes.
You can see the look on my face where I'm
clearly there's an expression I do when I'm not following,
And you can tell with every game that it really
took me a few goes to understand what we were
doing here. And if anyone thinks that behind the scenes
they give you more information, they don't. It's like you
know when someone explains to you a card game and
(44:33):
you just nod, but none of it's going in. That
was me for most of that we you have to
sing or dance. I didn't have to sing or dance,
but I realize it under that pressure, your brain goes blank.
And I'm sitting there going you look like such an idiot.
I desperately wanted to win. And what's horrifying is how
clear that is on television.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I can't wait to watch this. How many to bring
me so much joy?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It was at six point thirty every night this week,
so you can catch up on all of them five
in a row. But look, it was so much fun
and I feel very lucky that I get the opportunity
to do new and fun things where I have a
steep learning curve. But I wanted to be like surprisingly
good at it, and spoiler, I was not.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
That's all we've got time for today and this week
out Louder is a massive thank you to all of
you for being here with us, and as we've been
recording from all different corners of the country and our
houses in different places. We'll be back in your ears
next week, but Jesse and Mia beat us out.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Our audio producer Leah Porges, our video producer Josh Green,
Our junior content producers Coco and Tessa. We will see
you in Sydney tomorrow Night out Louders.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Bye, Peekaboo, Peekaboo. We have a subscriber episode that I'm
here to tell you about. If you are not ready
to say goodbye, I like this. I like this little
trick that we do. At the end, we thought we'd
leave you with a little bit of a conversation we
had about an out louder who discovered her friend shares
their text messages with her husband and sometimes when she
gets replies, the husband has actually written them. Also, do
(46:15):
you put in for group gifts for your newly divorced friends?
Have group gifts gone too far? We have a lot
of thoughts that we share in this episode. A link
will be in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening. If you
love the show and want to support us as well,
subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very best way
to do so. There is a link in the episode
description
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
If we aren't allowed to notice that women who are
in their forties and fifties and even sixties look like
they're in their twenties and thirties, if we're not even
allowed to notice that and wonder how they've done it,
then what effect does that have on us?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud and to
our Friday show. Where as you know, we don't have
anything to do with the news, nothing at all. We
just have a good time today today, not today today,
It's Friday, the sixteenth of May. And I'm Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And again we're coming to you from the roads, the
roads seamless so far. Friends, Again, we're coming to you
from the road. So forgive us if we're a little
bit glitchy. But friends, how good was Bristolle on Wednesday night?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh Brisbane, you always deliver. You are possibly the most
unhinged trap we play too, but in the best way,
in the best way.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
They're always so much fun. We always go you know
who'd love this Brisbane and indeed they do.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Tomorrow night we're in Sydney and next Thursday we're in Melbourne,
so we will see you next week. But on today's show,
a very famous woman has talked us through her boob
job online and it's spon con. Is this what we're
doing now? We've got recommendations including a whistleblower's memoir, a
(01:45):
Fix for Your Face, and a very useful newsletter, and
are best of worse, which are a very icky sexy guy,
MIA's Missing Deadlines and Jesse's TV meltdown. It's our best
and worst of the week. But first, Mia.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Fes, you missed it. There is a new thing that
you can do on the weekend to heal yourself and
get back to nature, and it's called putting you in
on a tree. Pardon I love everything about this story now.
Minge is an affectionate form of slang for vagina or volva,
(02:19):
whatever you want to call it. I think it's a
British thing. Hole is it it is?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I don't know that affection is the world, but let's
go with it. Let's go with it.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
We're going to reclaim it in the same way we've
reclaimed the C word. Victoria Emes is a comedian. She's
an online mum mate, and she's got a fitness app
called Fitbitches. She makes a lot of content and she
has shown something that she likes to do and suggested
that maybe it would benefit all of us. Here's a
little grab of the reel that she recently posted.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
But have you got your minge around the tree recently?
Because I'm good a vouch for this. This is one
of the most healing things that you can do. All
you need a tree and a minge.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Now we just need to adopt a sort of very
comfortable position there, arms right.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Round, give it a big squeeze.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
And then, if you like, if you're feeling fruity, little kiss,
just to say thanks love nature for being such a beautiful, wondrous.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I just, oh, is anyone else marry me?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Absolutely sold?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Now I know this isn't a visual medium, So in
case you're just listening to this, I need to point
out a couple of things. First of all, she's not naked,
because we don't want to get splinters in our bits.
Not good. Secondly, she sort of just like hugs the
tree and presses herself into it. She don't hump the tree.
It's not aggressive if there's no thrusting. It's just like
(03:53):
you know, some people talk about earthing. They go and
take off their shoes and they stand on the ground.
This is just connecting your lady parts to mother Nature.
I think it's actually quite beautiful.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I don't want to be disrespectful to royalty, but Princess
Kate's been talking a lot lately about how nature has
helped her get through a difficult time. Yeah, and I'm
wondering if this is the next logical step for all
of us who love a bit of a tree hug
is to take the relationship from platonic to romantic. I
think I can see it in my future. I do.
I actually am one of those tree huggers. When I
(04:24):
see a beautiful tree in nature, I ask it for permission. No,
you don't a big squeeze. I love trees like I
love trees. So this lady has just opened up a
whole new world for me.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
And I think it is critical as you say that
it is done with pants on, or at least under
pants on, because there's splinters, but there's also ants bark
that could get lodged, and then you might need to
go to the emergency room, and we don't want that.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Maybe it would pecker be careful of those.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
A bird, a worm. None of that's fun. But I
will say that I feel as though we keep making
up fancy words and fancy practices for just go outside
and engage somewhat with nature, which I think is always
just a good thing. You'll feel better, whether it's your
minge on a tree, whether it's your fate on the grass.
(05:14):
It's just nice to go out and reconnect with the
world around us.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It is just remember to keep your ecosystems to yourself.
You need the tree to keep their ecosystem over there,
and we keep our ecosystems in our pants. They don't
need to merge.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Actress Selma Hayek has a new neck, Australian influencer Inde
Clinton has a new nose, and Megan Trainer has new boobs.
One woman is taking us along for the journey, another
is an ambassador for a brand new non invasive treatment,
and the third is posting sponsored content encouraging anyone motivated
(05:51):
to make a change of their own to visit a
board certified plastic surgeon near you. Let's start Withindy Clinton.
She's got three kids, she's got two point one million
followers on Instagram, She's massive on TikTok, and she rose
to fame because she's sort of the antithesis to the
bar and Bay Earth mother aesthetic. She was very real
(06:12):
about the chaos of motherhood anyway. Recently, she made the
decision to get a rhinoplasty to resolve an injury after
a surfing accident, and when she first announced it to
her followers, this was after she'd done it, she was
visibly shaking. She explained that she didn't want to tell them,
but they were going to be able to see it,
so she wanted to be upfront without actually promoting the procedure.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
I don't want to talk about this. I would rather
just do this and hide it because I don't want
to promote this, and I don't want to sound like
I'm promoting this because I'm doing this for myself. I
am getting my nose done next month a rhinoplastic surgery.
I don't know if I'm going to post my recovery
and all of that, like throughout that. I haven't decided
that yet, just because I'm not trying to monetize off
(06:55):
this or anything, I genuinely just want to get it done,
recover and move on with my life.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Seems reasonable. Then there's Salmahayek, a fifty eight year old
actress who is now an ambassador full a non invasive
skin tightening and lifting tree she uses on her neck,
and she get this interview with The Cut where she
said she felt like she'd started to look and this
is a quote like a turkey, but didn't want to
go under the knife. But here's where things get a
(07:21):
little murky. A few months ago, singer Meghan Trainer posted
sponsored content on Instagram for a breast augmentation and lift.
Here's a little bit of what she said.
Speaker 7 (07:31):
It's Meghan Trainer and I've got some big news to share.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yep, I got my moves done.
Speaker 7 (07:36):
As you know, I'm in a super busy chapter of
my life. I've been touring, working and mummying really hard.
So recently I've decided to do something just for me.
I got a breastlift and augmentation. Finally, after having two kids,
living a healthier lifestyle and losing weight, I couldn't be happier.
Speaker 8 (07:56):
With my decision. I am so obsessed.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
The music makes it sound really fun.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I started off going, Yeah, I'm into this, that's fine,
and then when she started going into quite a lot
of details about the specifics of the actual implants, I
started to feel a bit icky.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yes, so this is also in among sponsored content for
laundry detergent and Elf cosmetics. And then the natural progression is,
of course her breast implants.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You know what I was confused about, Jesse. She was
wearing a cardigan buttoned up to the neck all the
way through the video, and I kept being like, and
I'm not proud of myself with this. Show me the boobs,
show us your tits, show me the boobs I'm imagining.
And obviously this is conjecture that in the negotiation she
would have been like, I will do sponkn for your boobs,
(08:40):
but I will be keeping all my clothes on.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You would think the client would say, we want the
product front and center, we want that to be really highlighted,
get the boobs out, But no, she has it's a negotiation.
I guess a line in the sand. How celebrities do
or don't talk about the work they have done is
something they and the rest of the culture is navigating
in real time. Does advertising invasive surgery to your eighteen
(09:04):
point three million followers as though it is nothing more
than a new bra feel weird to you too?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Maya? Do you know who I was thinking about when
you started talking about this is Julia Morris because she
got and it's called an upper bleph for a plasty
where you basically get your eyelids a bit chopped out
of your eyelids so they're not so droopy, very common procedure. Now,
she wasn't sponsored, but she was very transparent about it.
And the thing is that when you've got the demands
(09:32):
of social media and people with public profile, people will
notice and comment if you look different. And then there
are some people like Indick Clinton who publish content all
the time, and if she was going to try to
hide something, she'd have to not post anything for two weeks.
So I always I'm in favor of transparency. I think
transparency is great. Where it gets a little bit conflicting
(09:55):
is when it's sponsored. And listening to that was really
helpful listening to that because I found what Julia Morris
did really helpful.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
When you've got.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Salma Hayek and Meghan Traina being paid to say stuff.
It's really easy to infuse that with their actual personal testimonial.
But a breast augmentation and lift is a really big deal.
I've had friends who've had even just reductions and any
kind of surgery. There's a lot of recovery and it's
always a lot more than you think it's going to be.
(10:26):
And obviously that gets brushed down into the carpet because
when you're sponsored, you only talk about the good stuff.
So I feel like maybe I like the transparency part
of it, but it's not completely transparent because it just
really is spin.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I agree with me or on that, because we should
be clear that here in Australia we actually have very
strict regulations about what you can and can't promote when
it comes to cosmetic procedures and even some cosmetic products
like sunscreen. So this isn't necessarily all content that you
would be able to see in quite the same way here.
But that's the problem is that we all know and
(11:03):
everybody does know this. I think we've become much more
digitally literate around this, but.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Hol I've got a question, we do see it here
right because they go on social media and talk about it.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You do see it here, but there are very strict rules.
So there are some brand names you can't use, there
are some things you cannot advocate for. You can say
that you've used it, but you can't necessarily say that
it worked. Like there's a lot of different guidelines around it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
But we can still see what Meghan Trainer says and
what Sama says, right, Like, it's not blocked in Australia.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
No, no, it's not blocked, but that's not Australian approved content,
got it. It wouldn't be approved here. But the thing
is is for exactly the reasons that you say that,
we know that when you make a deal to do
sponsored content, whatever it is, you agree what you are
and aren't going to say. It doesn't mean that it's
not honest to a point, but it means that you
might airbrush certain things, and that is clearly what's going
(11:54):
on here. I don't really have a problem with it,
except for the fact that it clearly signals a mainstreaming
of quite serious procedures. But I think that's happening anyway.
Like I think that things that we used to think
were quite extreme, whether that be injections or weight loss
drugs or whatever. We used to maybe think we're sort
(12:14):
of for the one percent. As that trickles down and
becomes more available and cheaper and more democratized, then of
course everybody wants to find new ways to sell it
to you. I don't know, it still feels strange to
be like, I remember when Gwyneth Paltrow didn't out now
add for a particular type of anti wrinkle injector that
she was claiming was more natural than some others, and
(12:37):
listening to it, and I think we've got a grab.
We can plain in a bit. But it's jarring because
you're just like, oh, you're actually selling me things to
put inside myself. It just feels a bit icky, but
I think it's inevitable.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
I ad met I wasn't a fan of anti wrinkle injections.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Then I found one.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's different, one that's uniquely purified.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It does feel like we're going that way, and I'm
with Maya that the stakes feel a lot higher when
someone is going under an anesthetic and we know about
things like breast implant illness. Right as you say, what
we're not seeing with Megan Trainer is the recovery. In fact,
(13:20):
she's saying it was really quick, it was really easy.
I couldn't believe how good I felt. And you think, well,
if it wasn't any of those things, you wouldn't really
be able to say. I feel quite differently about Samahayak though,
because it's non invasive, and I'm grappling with where my
line is and why. And it made me think of
(13:42):
there were a few Australian influences a few years ago
who worked with a very famous Australian cosmetic surgeon. It
was very unclear whether they got discounted treatments in exchange
for maybe collaborating or sharing their image, and there were
tummy tucks and breast augmentation, and they cited this particular
(14:05):
doctor and he now has a class action suit out
against him.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Do you mean from women who had procedures that didn't
go very.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Well, exactly right, really really serious complications and really serious allegations.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
It's easier to think, oh, you know, it's all great
and I had it and blah blah blah, and what
the internet doesn't always show the reality.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
You're right, and it feels different. I remember Kelly McCarron,
who is the host of New Beauty and is on
a bunch of Mum Maya podcasts. She a few years
ago showed a realistic recovery from a nose job. I
had never seen anything like that. It was so candid.
It was the bruising, it was the packing, it was
(14:46):
the months of recovery. The honesty was so refreshing because
she wasn't trying to sell us anything, which I think
to your point, Mea is Julia Morris as well. There's
a transparency to that. But when your message has to
be filtered because you're being paid, and we also don't
(15:07):
know the specifics of the co tract right, like were
you going to get this surgery anyway? Was a surgery
paid for or you then paid on top for all
of those things. I think we kind of have to
know if we're going to get spon con for having
your body cut open.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, it's a bit ethically murky, isn't it. It was
interesting because a couple of weeks ago and halfaway turned
up at a fashion show in Paris, and there was
a lot of talk on the internet about her having
a new face, and there were cosmetic surgeons who had
not operated on her and she has not made any
comment about it. But in the same way that people
(15:45):
apply their forensic lenses to true crime stories, people also
do that to the faces of women in the public
eye often. And there were a whole lot of postmade
and cosmetic surgeons coming out and saying here's what I
think she's had done, and this and this and this,
and then there were close ups of what people said
was some filler in her jaw, and everyone was trying
(16:06):
to figure it out.
Speaker 8 (16:06):
We need to talk about and Hathaway's facial changes, because
she is looking exceptional. This is her yesterday and she's
looking different. So let's talk about what I think she's
had done. This is Anne in two thousand and seven,
and she's always been well known to have very elegant
and feminine looking features that are well proportioned. In twenty
twenty three, we can see some very subtle signs of
aging in the mid and lower face now at the
(16:27):
age of forty two. To achieve this appearance, I think
she's had botox, a surgical browlift, upper blephoplasty, rhinoplasty, lit filler,
and within the last nine to twelve months, possibly a
deep plane face and necklift.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
There's two ways to look at it. There's the way
of saying, well, that's really mean we should just not
talk about women's faces and we should leave women alone,
and I totally get that. Then there's the idea that
if we aren't allowed to notice that women who are
in their forties and fifties and even sixties look like
they're in their twenties and thirties, if we're not even
allowed to notice that and wonder how they've done it,
(17:05):
then what effect does that have on us?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I understand the reluctance to say specifically what you've had done, though,
because what is your line between transparency and BBC and
well and being instructive? Right because Indy Clinton, for example,
was trying to be very clear, I've had this done
some reasons I'll share with you, maybe some reasons that
aren't any of our business, but I'm not telling you
(17:29):
that you need a nose job. And you could see
with Meghan Trainer's messaging it was a bit like I saw.
I'm wondering if it was Megan Note with someone else
I saw who had done spon con with Maybe it
was light posuction and they had a part of their
caption that said, if something bothers you three times a day,
change it, and I thought, oh, that is so that
(17:52):
so toxic.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Meghan's message is interesting because it's when she says, you know,
I'm working really hard and I'm mumming really hard, and
I wanted to do something just for me. It's like
repositioning surgery or self care. That's really interesting too. But
to Hathaway. The thing that I have an issue with
about that is I think that it's an entirely different
thing when people tell you what they're doing or they're
(18:16):
open about it, all those things to being forensically invasive
on a woman's face, like we have no idea what
Unhathaway did to her face or if she did anything
to her face. And everybody's there with their zoom in's
and their circles, and these days, you know, the A list,
the pinnacle of beauty. The people we hold up as
a pinnacle beauty have access to all As I just said,
(18:38):
that will all trickle down eventually, but they have access
to things we don't even know about, and they're getting
all kinds of infusions and injections and peptides and this
and that, and it's like, what do we want from them,
you know, do we want X rays and blood types?
And like, it's just I do have a problem with
acause I think it turns up the surveillance on every woman,
which we already weighs really heavily on us.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
All.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
How do you two feel about this?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
If you went to Megan Trainer's link in bio where
she will tell you all about the implant trademark, blah
blah blah. Is there a disc code, mayor there's a
discount code? Oh, you too can get two hundred and
fifty dollars off your breast augmentation. Oh how do you
feel about that?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Not good?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I don't feel good because then, also, what responses if
I go and get her discount code and use it
and my boob job goes horribly wrong, or I die
under an esthetic or something happens. What is her responsibility there? Like,
I know, legally probably nothing, but ethically encouraging someone to
(19:42):
have cosmetic surgery. Yeah with a discount code. Wow, out louders.
In a moment, something for your face, something smart to watch,
and an audio book that Holly's got inter ears right
now in his recommendations, outlauders, we've got a listener dilemma,
and we need your collective wisdom to help us and
(20:03):
our partners at UI solve it. So here's the problem
from our listener. I'm a mother to a beautiful three
month baby. My partner and I decided before our child
was born that we wouldn't share photos on social media
for privacy reasons. We made this very clear to both
our families, including my mother in law. Last week, I
was scrolling through Facebook when I discovered she's posted dozens
of photos of our baby, including bathtime pictures and private
(20:27):
family moments. And when I reminded her of our rule,
she just left it off, saying everyone loves seeing the
photos and that she's just a proud grandmother. My partner
doesn't want to cause family drama and suggested we let
it go let them. But yesterday I noticed she's created
a dedicated my Precious Grandchild album that she regularly updates.
(20:48):
I value our relationship, but this feels like she's completely
ignoring our wishes as parents. But the question is what
do you do next?
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I have the answer. I have the definitive answer. I
don't even need your input. Do you want know what
it is?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Please your husband, partner, even you, if you want to.
When she is not looking, you take her phone, take
her phone, you change her settings, and you change her
settings on Facebook so that a select group of people
can see those photos. Just make sure that it's super private.
Maybe it's a few family members, or maybe it's the
one hundred friends that she has on Facebook, and no
(21:22):
one else can see it, and then you move on
with your life. It's coming from a really good place.
She's very proud. I understand the reluctance, because you go,
I don't know whose hands these photos are going to
end up in. I totally get it. But years ago,
I think the four of us kids went on to
Mum's Facebook tweaked a few settings. She got upset. She said,
(21:44):
no one's like I'm a post anymore. And I was like,
you can't imagine why. I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And stevens, my engagements dropped and not happy.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It must be the algorithm. No, no, no, we fiddled
with your settings. Sometimes you need a little settings fiddle
to solve family drama.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's really good advice. It's much better than mine, because
I was just going to make you a partner, go
and have a fight with his mother, Yours is much better,
much better. Advice out loud as what would you do?
Share your thoughts in the Mama Mia outloud Facebook group
and also share any dilemmas that you want our help
with in the Facebook group or email us at out
loud at momamea dot com dot au.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
weekend with our very best recommendations. Who wants to go first?
I'll go first. You know how I'm loving audiobooks at
the moment, particularly memoir right. For me, audiobooks are at
their absolute best when it comes to memoirs.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I want to ask you about that because I agree
I struggle with fiction on audiobooks.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It really depends on the voice. So I've listened to
Demon Copperhead, which is one of my favorite ever books.
I listened to that as fiction and they have this
amazing actor. Lots of people are saying they enjoy our
fiction Jesse on audio because I guess they're already audio
trained people. But it's all about the act. But I
agree with Youmir that for me, nonfiction and memoir in
(23:14):
particular is really good in audio. So I'm listening to
a very famous Ish book. It's been out for a while.
Mea recommended it to me weeks ago, called Careless People,
and it's by a New Zealand woman called Sarah Williams.
If it sounds familiar to you, but you're not sure why,
it would have been roundly promoted as the fact that
(23:35):
she was the Facebook whistleblower. So Sarah win Williams is
a young Ish Kiwi as I said, young idealistic woman
who wanted desperately to go and work at Facebook in
its early days. In its earliest days, she'd already managed
to get her way to Washington, d C. Where she
was working as a diplomat in the New Zealand Embassy,
a job which she said was not that busy really,
because no one cared about New Zealand in America. These
(23:58):
are her words, not mine. And she saw this shiny
citadel of you know, new media and social media and
thought what it could do for democracy and all this stuff,
and went to work there right. What follows is an
account of basically her working at relatively high levels at Facebook.
She became their kind of international envoy. So she was
the person who had to go into Myanmar, for example,
(24:21):
and try and talk the government into allowing Facebook to
be open there, or you know, introduced Mark Zuckerberg to
presidents of various countries, greased the wheels of international diplomacy,
and over her time there, that job becomes bigger and
bigger as Facebook's influence grows. Now, that's all great, but
it doesn't sound that sexy. But this book, in my opinion,
(24:43):
is so well written and so sexy that it works
on lots of different levels. It also is the story
of an idealistic, workaholic young woman who absolutely loves her job,
coming slap bang up to the reality of what it
means to work that hard when then you have a family,
and suddenly, like Sheryl Samberg's telling her that she needs
to hire a nanny and stop talking about her baby
(25:04):
in the office, she comes up against all kinds of
slightly strange sexual innuendo. She's expected to put herself in
harm's way and put the job above all things. Ever,
her husband starts going, what are you doing with your life?
And it's just I just loved it.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Can I just ask? Because I've listened to a few
interviews with her, and I'm gonna be honest, sometimes instead
of reading the book, I just listened to podcast interviews
with authors where I'm interested in their work. Do you
think this is a book where it's worth actually listening
to the whole book.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Well, for me, it is, because I'd listened to podcast
interviews too. And the thing is that, obviously we know
this because we conduct podcast interviews. You can't get everything in,
so you choose an angle and go with it. Obviously,
there's really interesting, deep stuff here about Facebook's responsibility in
political situations in developing countries, So if you're interested in that,
it's there. But the stuff that really grabbed me more
(25:54):
was the personal stuff and the personal cost and also
the process of watching, like the scales fall from someone's eyes.
What did you think, Mia, Yeah, it took quite a long.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Time for the scales to fall. I really liked it
at first. I agree it's written in a really engaging way,
and we should say, of course, Facebook have said a
lot of the book is not true, and there are
parts of.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
The book that is true, but they've tried to block it.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
There's been legal action and tried to stop her from
doing interviews about it. Tried to get it poulped I
also have read from you know, some journalists who just
have discredited her a little bit. But I think it's
a really interesting story because it's the story about a
time like she's in the room where it happens, or
she was in the room where it happens at a
(26:37):
time when Facebook went from a sort of a social
media app to being a global superpower. She was there
in that transition and worked very closely with Cheryl, and
when Cheryl became Cheryl Sandberg and threw lean in the
launch of Leanin, and.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
She's actually very funny about that. Mia. When Cheryl's promoting
lean in, all the female Facebook executives and there aren't
actually that many at that point, I have to help her.
They have to turn up to all the launches and
do all the jobs that Cheryl basically says women shouldn't
do when they're at work, like hand out the name
tags off around the cup and she's like, hold on,
I like an international diplomat. It's very funny. But she's pregnant,
(27:14):
so she's really good vision.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
She's great, and she has to try and get the
world leaders to be photographed next to Cheryl holding Cheryl's books.
Chinese president stuff anyway, and you know there's some salacious
stuff in there about like Mark Zuckerberg offering to name
his firstborn after President she in China. But it's really interesting.
I have to say I didn't finish it. I was
(27:37):
listening also on audiobook, and I got about two thirds
of the way and then I just it was feeling
a little bit repetitive to me, and I sort of
wandered off. But it's definitely if you're interested in tech
and that world. It's not too techy, but a kind
of a real life, funny business memoir. It's pretty gripping.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Maya, what's your recommendation.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
My recommendation is a moisturizer. I have, as out loud
as may know, been struggling with roseasia for the last
year or so, which is so boring. I've been having
bits of laser for it. Here's my discount code. No,
but something that my dermatologist recommended, because when you've got
roseasia and your skin feels sore and irritated, what you
(28:18):
think you want to do is to put really sort
of thick, calming heavy creams on it, or oils or
something because it can feel sort of so sore, but
that's actually terrible for it. You need to not put
heavy creams or oils on roseatia skin when it's flaring up.
So there's a product by laroche Pose called Toleran probably
(28:41):
you say it in French, and it's basically for rosetia.
It's called visible redness reducing cream. I've had to pretty
much stop using serums or anything on my cheeks, which
is thanks for your sympathetic I know, I know, I
see them too hard, and it's not something that really
goes away. It's just something that you have to kind
(29:02):
of adapt to, and so it's really blown up my
whole skin routine. But in the day, this Tolerian by
Lauchep is just a really good calming thing to put
under makeup, to put you know, it's pretty much the
only skincare I can news on my cheeks now. Anyway.
You can just get it from the chemist. Lauris Pose
is a great basic brand for anyone particular who's got
sensitive skin issues. It's not prescription or anything, but like
(29:24):
any skincare, check the label to make sure it's the
right thing for you. Don't take my word for it,
and there is no discarnt code.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
My recommendation this week is a newsletter, and it is
the newsletter I've noticed that I always open, so I
subscribed a while ago out loud as might remember, especially
during pregnancy, I got very into Emily Osta. And Emily
Osta she is the patron saint of pregnant women. She
is a woman who gives you all the data on
(29:52):
how much coffee you can drink, what exercise to do
during pregnancy. And she does all of that because she
has a PhD in economics from Harvard.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So she vibes than not vibes.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
It is all data. And if you are a data
driven person who just wants the information given to you plainly,
without opinion, without spin, and without being sold anything, then
Emily Ostra is brilliant. So she has this newsletter. It's
called parent Data. She said an email the other week
which was called why are autism rates going up? And
(30:27):
no opinion, no judgment, nothing. It's really really topical in
the US at the moment because of the way that
the Make America Healthy Again movement has co opted conversations
around autism. And she just presented what the data says,
what the data says about whether it's a case of
(30:48):
more diagnoses, whether it is more people are being born
with autism. She really goes into it and presents it
very plainly.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
What does she say? What's the reason?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I mean, and this is a thing about data is
that it's quite complex, But essentially she says that it's both.
She kind of acknowledges the vaccine thing and just says
there is no data anywhere to suggest that vaccines cause autism,
and then she kind of goes on with it. It's
not an opinion, it's just like, I can give you
all of these studies, and she says that the definition
(31:20):
of autism changed and since then you've got a lot
of people that you know, the scope of people and
obviously people being diagnosed later in life, but that it
also looks like and this is difficult for data to
actually identify, but it does look like there are more
people who are being born with these particular issues, and
da data, I won't do it justice, but I found
it really really enlightening. And then she had a great
(31:42):
infographic recently that I sent a friend. It was like
a graph about how many times on average children wake
up overnight, so you know, in the first few months.
Let's say it's an average of three times in an
internet age where you only hear the horror stories and
it seems like no child ever sleeps. It is so
refreshing to see that and go for most families by
(32:04):
the time a child is too they're sleeping through the night.
Like she's just very, very matter of fact, love her work.
She'd one on the best way to discipline a child again,
throwing in all the data, She'll say, we don't know
about this. We know that smacking isn't great, that kind
of thing, like, she's just fantastic. So that's parent data
by Emily Osta. A bit off. It's behind a pay wall,
(32:26):
but I don't pay for it. I just get the
free ones and I find them fantastic. After the break,
we share the highs and lows of our week in
Best and Worst.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
of the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week. And a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's time for Best and Worse. This is the part
of the show where we share a little bit about
our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst this week?
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So it's a bit of a tongue in cheek worst,
but I really need to workshop it, particularly with Mia,
and that is that I recorded an episode of Mid
this week, which, as many outlouders would probably know, is
the other podcast I host conversations for gen X women
who are anything but where I got my style roasted.
So it was an episode about fashion and clothes and
(33:32):
I did it with this amazing woman called Grace Lamb,
who we actually had on the last season of Mid
talking about hormones. But she is a former editorial director
at Vogue. She's a real fashion guru type who now
lives back in Australia. She's lived all over the world
and she advises women, particularly slightly older women over forties
women about what touet?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
What did she say?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So I sent her, as part of my homework for this,
a million selfies of me in various outfits. Right, So
I sent her all these mirror selfies that I've taken
over the last couple of years of like me thinking
I look great going to work. She was like, and
I don't want to give it all away, but she
was like, and this SWE need me as feedback. She
(34:15):
told me first of all, to cut my hair short, short, short,
like short, short, short.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Short like how short?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Little Bob Holly, the little bomb is what she basically
told me to do.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Also told me to throw away my red shoes.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh shots fired.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
She told me that my jeans, my obsession with my
wide legg jeans is fine, but they should be even wider.
And so the reason I need to ask me about
this is that are there some people who just really
want you to be cool but maybe you're not? So
I was like, I came off the call and it
was really fun, so it's a tongue in TWI. I
(34:55):
was also like, oh wow, all the things I thought, like,
you know, I love my long hair and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You know, well I think I do don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Any what do you think me? I should I be listening?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
This is my view about style. If anyone is happy
with their style, I don't think you should force someone
to change it. But if you're in that kind of
in between where you just don't quite feel right in yourself,
Because when we say we've got nothing to wear. We
just mean our clothes don't match how we want to feel.
(35:28):
And you have been talking about whether it's getting a
fringe or getting a haircut or I don't know what
to do with my hair or whatever. So it's not
like that's out of the blue, you know what I
mean if you were like, oh no, I love my hair.
Like I know some people who their hair is their thing,
and even if it might look better a different way,
they're really happy with it and it's a very strong
part of their identity in which case have at it
(35:49):
don't change anything, but it depends what you want. I
love hearing what people think I should do or where
or how I should look, and then you decide which
of those things you'll take and which you won't.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
It's interesting that episode will come up soon. I can't
wait for Out Loudest to weigh in and Mea to
weigh in. But I was like excited, me I would.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
That's my dream.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
I know.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
It was fun. It was fun my best And this
is controversial because I know not everybody agrees, but I
have been watching videos of Walton Goggins on SNL.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Is he good?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
And it has been making my life. Walton Goggins, as
many of us know, is the guy, the controversial guy
on White ladis Rick. The internet became briefly obsessed with
him as a kind of anti sex symbol sex symbol,
and I have to say, I'm kind of on that team.
And then he hosted SNL this week, and look, I'm
(36:44):
like many people, I don't love love SNL, but I
do like the way we consume it now, which is
just short clips of the best bits. And in the
introduction he gets his mother up out of the audience
and they dance together, and then he does this like
cloggy tap dance and nothing has ever been hotter in
my life. Can Daan love that guy? He makes me
(37:05):
so happy.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
God, he can dance, and he's very confident, and he's
a bit where they say, people keep asking me how
it feels to suddenly be a sex symbol at fifty three,
and he's like, I have to be honest, it feels
fucking fantastic. And I'm like, I bet it does. Want
And I know that people think that maybe he did
something with a that, but we don't know. It's all
pure speculation. I don't know what it is about him,
(37:29):
but I may have been watching that on repeat.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Do you know what's funny is that I didn't see
it when he was on White Lotus, like because it
was his character. I wasn't familiar with him as an actor,
and I've found because I'm not attracted to depressed, sleazydoo people,
that's just not my vibe. And I know I've got
a lot of friends who are who would be like, oh,
get their nickers off for him immediately, like the character
(37:54):
of Rick. But when I've seen him on like the
met Galla Red Carpet and then clips from SNL, He's
looked really happy and I can see the sexy, I
can see the appeal because the darkness I've found just
a complete turn off. But yeah, he does look like
he's having the time of his life.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I think he's very polarizing, isn't he, Because some women
are just like, Eh, get him away from me, and
other women are like, oh, and I'm afraid, yeah, you're.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
That guy me or what's your worst?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
My worst is that I have been struggling with deadlines.
Someone said something about me just offhandedly in a joky
way a few weeks ago that really hit because it's
something that i've been feeling kind of insecure about They
said something about making announcements and not following through, not
executing on things, and I know that's something I do,
(38:40):
and I hate it about myself. And the reason that
I'm very suited to digital media and before that, magazines
is because they were externally imposed deadlines. Like in magazines,
the magazine has to get on the stands whether you're
ready or not, so I liked that. When I'm in
charge of my own time, I find that much much
more challenging. And because there's this project I've been bloody
(39:02):
talking about for so long, and there's other things that
I want to do, there's no deadline for them. And
you know, when you just don't do something for a
really long time, it just all the energy drains out
of it, and then suddenly you look at it and
you go, oh, I don't really even want to do
you anymore. I missed the window to jump through when
I was feeling really motivated, So I've been struggling with
that for a while. But my best is that I
(39:25):
have jumped through that window and made myself accountable and
moved forward with a whole lot of things that I
wanted to do. And just getting them out of my head.
Oh that feeling of I should, I should, I should
That's why I stopped writing books, because it's like, oh,
I should do that, I should, I should, And then
every minute that you're not working, you feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Tell me how you did it, Tell me how you
made yourself accountable. Did you have a trick? Did you
give yourself a deadline? Did you get someone else to
give you a deadline? Because I reckon this is really common.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah I did. I was in a meeting with other
people and I said give me a deadline because they're like,
what is this thing that you've been talking about? And
I'm like, oh, I just need to do this. So
I told them to give me a deadline, and I
just last weekend sat down and just did it. And
it felt so good. Sometimes I trick myself and I say,
I'm just going to do it for twenty minutes. So
(40:17):
I started by doing that, you know, with a little
Pomedora timey can just do it on your phone. You
just go look. After twenty minutes, I can stop. And
then the thing is that it's the starting that's the
hard part. Once I was actually doing it, I got
really into it, but I just find it hard to
get into flow. So that's been my week, Jesse, What
about you?
Speaker 3 (40:34):
My worst is starting the cleanout that you can't finish.
I'm doing a lot of cleaning out at the moment.
And I was looking at my bathroom cupboard and I went, look,
my medication is too high. My moisturizer is I can
never get it. I'm going to do all of this.
And I had it written down last week on my
to do list. I went, that's your weekend job. You're
(40:55):
going to clean out your cupboard. And I was a
particular person on Saturday morning that I no longer recognize.
But I got up and I went and I'd had
a coffee and just went, yeah, we're going to do it,
and you know, get Lerner involved, like it can be
a whole family affair. So I take everything out and
then I looked at it and went, oh, no, yeah,
(41:15):
it's gone. It's gone. That person has left the building.
She's gone on a plane. I don't know where she is.
But I have no desire to do this because I
think that the payoff isn't even that great. All it
is is that I can find my moisturizer. But I
can find my moisturizer now it's just in the scene.
So now it's still there, and we're a week later,
(41:36):
and I'm finding it very difficult to wash my hands
because there's a lot of things. And I put it
on Instagram and a lot of people said just throw
it out or put it in a bag, or just
shove it back in. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Just shove it back in, just put it exactly where
you got it from.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
That's how I feel about my fridge. You know, very
often I'll get home, I might have been away for
a couple of days, and the fridge is just like oh,
and I'm like, if I was rich, I'd just buy
another fridge.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
And it's like there are two hair elastics, two retainers,
a clip, and an empty bottle of something, And I'm like,
who am I to know where these things should go?
I don't have the mental capacity to work out the
positioning of any of these things. I might just leave
my house, burn it to the ground, and just move on.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
See that's when I just go onto Amazon and go
you know what I really need is some containers, some
crylic things to organize. Instead of actually organizing my life,
I'll like download an app, or I'll buy a storage container,
or I'll go to office works because that feels easier
and more interesting than actually doing their thing. Do you
(42:43):
know what will help you is well, you could try
the twenty minutes method, but also if you've got a
deadline to do something else that's actually important, and suddenly, yes,
you'll go you know what, I really should be cleaning
out my compas.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
That's what I need to do. And someone say if
I leave it there for long enough, LUKEA will just
throw it out, which I think is actually correct.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Sign another book deal.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
This has been like a procrastinator support.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Yeah, oh yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
So my best is that this week I was on
a television show on the ABC called House of Games.
I filmed it a few months ago now and it
has only just come out. It's hosted by Claire Hooper
and I was on with Rays Nicholson, Gillian Cosgrove and Costa.
After Costa is just such a.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Lit He's just a human ray of sunshine.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
His clothes are so cool. He has like overalls with
flowers on them. Holly, I think that's your fashion icon.
I think you should go to Costa for style.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Do you know, I met him on the red carpet
at the Logis. He's had his whole beard decorated with flowers.
He had all flowers and he had on a flower crown.
He looked incredible.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
See that's you, Holly. You just need flowers in your
head and in your beard, right. And the thing about
this show was that it was like the most extreme
version of exposure therapy I've ever done, because what I
discovered while on set was that I have a pathological
fear of losing and a pathological fear of looking stupid.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
But you're so competitive. What were the rules of the game?
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So they were games that and you can see it.
Lucra and I have been watching some of the episodes.
You can see the look on my face where I'm
clearly there's an expression I do when I'm not following,
And you can tell with every game that it really
took me a few goes to understand what we were
doing here. And if anyone thinks that behind the scenes
they give you more information, they don't. It's like you
know when someone explains to you a card game and
(44:33):
you just nod, but none of it's going in. That
was me for most of that we you have to
sing or dance. I didn't have to sing or dance,
but I realize it under that pressure, your brain goes blank.
And I'm sitting there going you look like such an idiot.
I desperately wanted to win. And what's horrifying is how
clear that is on television.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I can't wait to watch this. How many to bring
me so much joy?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It was at six point thirty every night this week,
so you can catch up on all of them five
in a row. But look, it was so much fun
and I feel very lucky that I get the opportunity
to do new and fun things where I have a
steep learning curve. But I wanted to be like surprisingly
good at it, and spoiler, I was not.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
That's all we've got time for today and this week
out Louder is a massive thank you to all of
you for being here with us, and as we've been
recording from all different corners of the country and our
houses in different places. We'll be back in your ears
next week, but Jesse and Mia beat us out.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Our audio producer Leah Porges, our video producer Josh Green,
Our junior content producers Coco and Tessa. We will see
you in Sydney tomorrow Night out Louders.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Bye, Peekaboo, Peekaboo. We have a subscriber episode that I'm
here to tell you about. If you are not ready
to say goodbye, I like this. I like this little
trick that we do. At the end, we thought we'd
leave you with a little bit of a conversation we
had about an out louder who discovered her friend shares
their text messages with her husband and sometimes when she
gets replies, the husband has actually written them. Also, do
(46:15):
you put in for group gifts for your newly divorced friends?
Have group gifts gone too far? We have a lot
of thoughts that we share in this episode. A link
will be in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening. If you
love the show and want to support us as well,
subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very best way
to do so. There is a link in the episode
description
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