September 10, 2025 • 46 mins
There's a new species of male that's captured Amelia's attention. He's a literature loving, matcha drinking, standup guy that seems to capture the female gaze perfectly. Except: none of it's real. He's faking it. La Lester explains.
Plus, we have to revisit the Coldplay kiss cam cheating scandal. The latest update changes EVERYTHING, and now? Well, now Jessie wants to renew her wedding vows.
And, welcome to The Great Lock In. It's your chance to put the last remaining months before the New Year to good use. But a certain Stacey Hicks confesses she would much prefer to Lock Out instead. So, why do all our goals suddenly feel urgent, and what's a lazy gewl to do when everyone's obsessed with self-optimisation?
Support independent women's media
What To Listen To Next:
- Listen to our latest episode: The New Rules Of Etiquette For Every Age
- Listen: A Theory About Kate Middleton's Hair & The Secret To Small Talk
- Listen: The Family Drama We Can't Stop Thinking About
- Listen:The Princess Test & Trump's Bruised Hand
- Listen: An Entirely Random List Of Things We Deem Offensive
- Listen: The Millionaire CEO Going Viral For A… Snatch
- Listen: The Snow Globe Effect & Brad Pitt’s Victory Lap
- Listen to Parenting Out Loud: The 'Normal' We Need To Interrogate & The Father's Day Rethink
- Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here
Watch Mamamia Out Loud:
What to read:
- There's a type of man fooling everyone, and you've probably dated him.
- 'I date men less attractive than me. Here's what people get wrong.'
- Platonic asks whether men and women can be friends. Then refuses to answer the question.
- 'Leonardo DiCaprio says he’s emotionally 35 — which explains a lot about men in their 30s.'
- It was the 'affair' that broke the internet. Nobody saw Astronomer's next move coming.
- 'Like the woman we’re thinking about after the "affair" video, I was the wife who was left behind.'
- 'I confronted my cheating partner. Then my phone pinged with something I never saw coming.'
- 'I grew up being called the smart girl. No one warned me what could happen next.'
THE END BITS:
Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com
Mamamia studios are styled with furniture from Fenton and Fenton
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message<
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Welcome to Mumma out Loud.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
What women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the tenth
of September.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I am Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I am Amelia Lester, and I am Stacy Hicks.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Feeling in for Holly and Holly is off today.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Stacy, you busted the door down because you it's not customary,
but you say.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You have a midweek recommendation.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I'm just breaking the rules. I busted in. I've
got one. It's good. I promise, I promise it's good.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, we're going to save it till the end of
the show. Here is what is on our agenda for today.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
There's been an update to the infamous Coldplay concert affair
and it will change the way you view relationships.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
There are two new species of men that we need
to be looking out for in the wild.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And the great lock in. Why all your goals suddenly
feel urgent? And self optimization is very much on the agenda.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
But first, in case you missed it, a new season
of Succession Disdrupped.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Give it to Me please just kidding.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
What actually happened was the Murdoch family, on whom the
TV show Succession is based, have finally figured out how
to divide up ninety four year old Rupert Murdoch's billions.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I know you were worried for them.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's so stressful.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
What actually happened was apparently they hadn't even thought about
this until they started watching Succession, and then they looked
at each other and said, hang on, we've got to
figure out what to do with these billions because Rupert
will probably slip his mortal coil soon. So this cued
many years of infighting, many many years. They ended up
in a court room in Nevada, which is in the
(01:54):
middle of the desert. Apparently there's a state laws that
are a bit more flexible than in other states, and
they all started fighting each other and they figured out
what to do. Let me explain how they figured it out.
There are four older children from Rupert Murdoch's first two marriages,
Kendall Connor, Ship.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And the one who gets nothing.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
There are two from his marriage to Wendy Dang. We
can set those two aside. They just want the money.
They're not interested in the power so we don't have
to worry about them. We're just talking about the four
older kids from the two first marriages. The problem is
they don't agree politically. Lachlan Murdock, who was Rupert's favorite,
he's all in on Fox News, which is how Rupert
(02:39):
has made a lot of his money. He loves the
fact that Fox News pushed Donald Trump into the presidency.
He's a big conservative. Some people say he's even more
right wing than Rupert, and he wanted to go full
steam ahead with Fox News. The other three older siblings
not fans of Fox News, not fans of Donald Trump,
not fans of the conservative news empire, and they wanted
(02:59):
to change it. So there were many, many years of
in fighting. But it turns out that those three older
siblings have been reassured with the offer of one point
seven billion dollars to walk away and never interfere with
Fox News again.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's fine, got to do it, Yes, I mean, I'm
good to me that.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, Lachlan takes over Fox News when Rupert dies and
goes full steam ahead on the conservative bent of Fox News,
and the other three just get to enjoy some time
on yachts. They've promised they'll never get involved with Fox
News ever again.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Okay, so this is my theory because interesting timing is
what I'll say. On Friday, Stacy, did you listen to
Friday's episode?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I sure did.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Okay, well, it's an episode you would know that we
talked about the Google doc that everyone needs to fill
out the satche before the spreadsheet, right, that you need
to fill out before you die. So my theory is
that Rupert listened as he often does, and he went,
I've got to get to the bottom of this because
you never know, you never know when your time's up.
And so he went through he put in his Facebook password,
(03:59):
Twitter password like details of what he wanted to happen
with his mail, and then he just wrote Lachlan.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
He just said, Lachlin, and I'm all in on.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Lock clank go with Lachlin. I think that's probably what happens.
But I don't think that they're going to be talking
to each other anytime soon. So James Murdoch, who some
people say is the smartest Murdoch some people, Yeah, if
you're listening Rupert and Lachlin, and he has spoken about
how Rupert was really mean to him all through this
(04:27):
Rupert's lawyers in a deposition said things to him like
have you ever done anything successful on your own? And
also why were you too busy to say Happy Birthday
to your father when he turned ninety?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Oh that's petty.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So James was very upset about all of that, and
I think it's safe to say that Lachlin and James
are kind of like the new William and Harry. They're
not talking and I don't see a reconciliation in the
cards anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And is important to my millennial reference point is that
Lachlan is of course married to Sarah Murdoch, form the
host of Australia's Next Top Models, and that's what matters.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That's what matters. Yeah, okay, So we always talk about
how the world's small, fragmented than ever now it's impossible
to gain mass attention. But nothing quite united the world
quite like the Coldplay concert chating scandal. Like you would
have been hard pressed to find someone who didn't know
the details of that, so you'd probably never even heard
of the company astronomer before the CEO, Andy Byron, was
(05:26):
called canoodling on the kiss can That's the only way
to describe it. Isn't it with his chief people officer,
Kristin Cabot back in July July. This moves fast. I
feel like that was yesterday. So despite them reportedly being
in happy marriages, this occurred. The world made memes about it.
But there's been an update to the story now that
(05:48):
might change how you look at it. So it pops
back up in the headlines again a few weeks ago,
because Cabot officially filed for divorce last month. But now,
in a statement to People, Cabots soon to be ex
husband Andrew Cabbot, has confirmed that they were separated long
before the Coldplay concert occurred. He says several weeks so
maybe not long before, but several weeks before, and they
(06:10):
had made the decision to be divorced before that night.
Now we don't know if the same is the case
for Andy Byron. He's never spoken publicly, but you know,
suffered huge ramifications from this story, had to step down,
as did Kristin Cabot. Neither of them have spoken, but
this is a pretty crucial detail in this story that
no one was privy to, and yet everyone has made
(06:31):
their decisions about it and moved on. So do you
feel like, this changes it for you, Jesse.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It changes everything.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
And I feel like at the time we were saying,
we don't know what the arrangement of someone else's marriage is.
We don't know if they're still together. It was two
seconds of footage and people jumped on so fast, and
images of her and her husband were released pretty immediately.
(06:58):
You can't retract the headlines and the comments and all
of that on the internet forgets fast because even the
way that it works is that everything's just the new
update now, but no one's reading the new update because
the virality and the intensity of that moment has passed.
So the narrative, it was never about the facts or
the truth or you know, the reality of their marriage.
(07:20):
It was about a narrative that was corporate dishonesty. Yeah,
the way that we are tricked and manipulated and they
just flaunt the rules, those people at the top of
the corporate ladder. And we liked that narrative and it
was neat, and then we moved on and then the
details sort of don't matter. I'm watching this now and
(07:41):
I'm like, okay, are we retracting the opinion cases?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Well, yeah, this just makes me think about an adage
that my mom has always passed along to me, which is,
you don't know what is happening in someone else's marriage,
no matter how much you think you know, even if
it's your best friend at alone, some random person on
the internet, you just can never actually tell what the
dynamic is. And I feel like that's really relevant in
(08:05):
the Internet age, because the way we think we understand
people's relationships is what they post on social media or
how they act on social media. And don't you think
that the people who talk the most about how happy
they are on social media are often the ones who
end up coming out and saying it's all falling apart.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, totally. The people who are always loudest about their
relationships are always the ones that you end up suddenly
seeing the breakup post from on the notes app on
their Instagram.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Even Jennifer Lopez j LO as I as I know
her was gushing about how she'd never felt more beautiful
than when she was with Ben Affleck, and then a
couple of weeks later they were filing for divorce. Like,
I feel like you're protesting too much, You trying to
prove something to.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, fast on, fast off, Yeah, I always worry about that,
and I have a theory.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We spoke I remember maybe a few months.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Ago about vow renewals, because remember Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola
Peltzbeckham were getting their vows renewed, and it's like, oh,
is that a is that almost like a red flag
that you kind of feel the need to display your
love after two years?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yes, And the loudness of it I think makes people
feel a little bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And yeah, what are you trying to prove? What are
you trying to say to us? Here? We get it,
you're married.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
What's behind it?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
But then I was talking to some friends last night
and have you seen the images from that of our
renewal with yes, so pictures of it's not just of
our renewal, Like she's in a wedding dress, Nicola pel Oh, Yeah,
like and she's looking stunning.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And we were saying, she's changed her.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Hair, right, So she was blonde the first time she
got married, and now she's a brunette.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
She's looking great, And that's key.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
It's key because it feels like when Mea gets a haircut.
People might not know this, but every time Maya gets
a haircut. She wants new headshots, and she says.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
We have to make a new art.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Were like, we can't just design our lives around you
and your haircut now, because you're changing it all the time.
So I think that sometimes with marriages and with weddings,
we think, well, now I'm a brunette wife, and so
I need images to reflect who I am now, and
we'll all say how we look back at our pictures
and go, well, I wouldn't mind redoing a bit of
(10:15):
a photo shoot. I was six months pregnant. I wouldn't
mind having a little bit of a waste.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
My wedding day was called Stormageddon in the papers the
next day, so you can imagine the humidity that I
had to deal with as a curly girl, so the
hair was not at prime. I would love to renew
for that reason alone.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Your husband doesn't need to be there, no see you
in a photography me exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I do have regrets about the fact that I got
married in maybe the most humid place in the world
at the most humid time of year, and I wore
my hair down because I was going for Kate Middleton vibes.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That was what we thought looked good.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Back then and now I'm like, that was not very
practical of me. The hair should have been up.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
We were saying, it's like, you think you're gonna wake
up on your wedding day because we're sold like this
kind of princess lie that we're going to wake up
on our.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Wedding day and look like a bride.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
But you wake up and you still have your face,
and you still have your body, and it's still you
still and you smile like an idiot, and do you
look at pictures You're like, my photographer was absolutely brilliant,
but like, I am not the stuff of Bridle magazines.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
But in my vowur renule, perhaps I will be. Perhaps
I will be.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I know is Nicola Peltzberg. And that's why we will
get a vour nule every two years for the rest
of time.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Three and a half sorry, very significant date.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Time has flown exactly three and a half years.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
I'm just wondering to bring it back to the Coldplay
couple if what their big mistake was here was that
they looked so guilty instead of leaning into what we
now understand to be kind of like hot divorce energy,
they were feeling themselves there at the Chris Martin serenade
until the camera came onto them.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Because they were time.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
That was their crime. They looked guilty rather than embracing
the energy of divorces.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
There was a great article in the Sidney Morning Herald
at the time by Tim Duggan, who writes a lot
about work and career, and he was saying that what workplaces,
all workplaces should have is something called a relationship.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Registry, and that's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You need to have it because I wonder if when
they hid. There's a lot of ways to read it, right,
it's maybe to protect the children. We don't know if
the other guy in it. I'm sure like it does
look like maybe he was still in Yes, but her
maybe she didn't want our kids to know. Also, the
workplace might not have known yet. And stats show that
(12:38):
like between one in three and two in three people
have had a relationship in the workplace.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I think I know someone.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I think that.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We work as the one in three because anyone else
had I have.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I'm also married to my former co.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Work in three. You're the odd one out of me.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I cannot imagine doing it, but God bless you well.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It says that what you should have is like a
relationship registry where the whole office doesn't need to know,
but because of things like conflicts of interests and promotions
and you know, lines of management and everything, you just
let them know. You can just put it on like
to your HR person. I mean, the issue is she
was at HR. Maybe she put it in. Maybe she
did put it in exactly. And the issue is too
(13:20):
what if you want to declare the relationship but both
of you are married, Like, is that something that the
workplace can condone? Are they the morality police or are
they just kind of watching how it kind of plays
out in the workplace?
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Can I can I ask a little bit of an
intrusive question, Stacy, when you got together with your now
husband at work, don't you have to tell HR and
sort of the HighRes up at some point? And how
did you decide when to do that?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
We did, and we then had the conversation over well,
I don't want to go in. You go in, you go,
you go tell him, you go telling me what you
are closer with him, you've been here longer, you go
let him know. So that's what we did. It's so awkward.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
It was very.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Awkward, and when the person had all gone south very quickly,
which you know it might have done. So how did
you decide? It was kind of like maybe a month
in and it was kind of.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Like brushed at each other.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I guess so. So it was
because return and have.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
A hook up and then be like, oh, I'm declaring
it to HR and they're like don't, it's over.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And then you're sitting together in an editorial meeting kitchen stories. Yeah,
so it's a very delicate space. But even other people
in this company got pulled into this story that weren't
even part of this story. Yeah, and this is another
thing that has flown under the radar. It got corrected
at some point along the line, but no one even
knows that the woman that was standing next to them
(14:43):
in the clip. Do you remember there was a woman
that kind of had this look on her face as
the kiss cam came on to them, like oh, they've
just got stung and I just need to stand as
still as possible and hope no one spots me. People
said that that was the other person that worked in
HR at the company, and they found photos it was
not her.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
She was not.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Involved in any way in the story. But that is
now something that people believe about that company. So it's
funny how these things will just move along now is
fact that that will forever be known as part of
the story. There was also a fake statement from Andy Byron,
the CEO, that got widely circulated on the day not real.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Also she resigned right yeah, and I'm looking back at it,
going she'd do anything wrong?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Did she?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Like?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I know that reputationally they can go. It caused maybe
a bit of damage, although they actually capitalized off it.
They got Gwyneth Paltrow in an ad, but I don't
know why she had to listen.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
I think when you're head of h R, it's a
bit unfortunate that she's caught in this way. But look,
I think the biggest problem with it was maybe the
Coldplay of it all. If this was at an Oasis concert.
You know, the northern summer has been punctuated with Oasis concerts,
and they're coming here soon, I think that's very on
brand Oasis. They're bad boys, like you kind of expect
(15:58):
people to be having affairs, So it felt like Coldplay
was just too wholesome. Coldplate is, as someone once said,
to me, coldplay is kind of like the porridge of
popular music. It's good for you, it's fibrous, but it's
not where you should be having affairs. I say, next
time this happens, do it at an oasis. Concept in
a moment, beware the performative male. We give you the
(16:21):
signs of how to spot one in the wild. Okay,
I'm going to describe a type of man you may
have seen out and about recently. Let me know if
this rings any bells. He's got a canvas tote bag.
He's carrying a matcher. He might have a paperback book
(16:42):
that you yourself have on your bedside table. Think Sally Rooney,
Jacob ALORDI is it him? He might have a laboo
boo dangling from a carabiner attached to the belt loop
of his wide leg jeans. Is this ringing any bells, ladies?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, I see such creatures on the train.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yes, this is a creature that we can now name.
This man has been identified. He is known as the
performative male. Move over the softboy. This is the performative male.
He's not just in touch with his emotions. He is
performing his emotions and muma me as Katie Powers wrote
a great piece for The Sight kind of summing him up.
(17:20):
She said, he puts his headphones in, picks up his matcher,
opens his book to the first page. He is a
cocktail of green flags, a man written for the female gaze.
So Katie talks about you know, none of these behaviors
are problematic. In fact, I think a man reading a
Sally Rooney book and drinking a matcher quite delightful. He's
getting his antioxidants in and he's educating himself with acclaimed
(17:44):
female writer. But I think that the issue with this
type of man, and the reason why he's been given
this name, the performed of male, is because he's just
doing it for the gram. He's just doing it to
impress women. He's not actually doing it because he loves
tortured irish protagonists and green tea. So I think also
reminds me a little bit of the sensitive new age
(18:05):
guy from the nineties, the snag. Does anyone remember that?
And I'm kind of one How unique is this new
type of man? Or is it just that every generation
has to name that man who's trying a little bit
too hard to be a feminist?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I hate this. I hate the term.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Why because it's the male equivalent of the pick me girl.
And I shudder when I hear the term pic me girl.
I find it so degrading and so sexist.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Can you just describe quickly what a pickme goal is,
because I've never really understood that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So often it's used to talk about a young woman
who seeks validation and attention by acting in a way
that they believe men will find desirable. So what annoys
me about it is that, like, the male gaze is
so just a fixture of our culture, and then when
any of us play to it as we are socialized
(18:58):
to do, we're then punished as well. And like the
idea that a heterosexual person would do something to impress
the opposite sec like, yeah, that happens all the time.
I hear women use it against other women all the time,
and I just think putting people into categories like that
is icky.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
So you think it's a bit mean, I think.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's a bit mean.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And as you say, Amelia, none of those qualities, like
some of the other qualities I saw were like men
who paint their nails or kind of play with gender
a little bit, or maybe they talk about their sisters
a lot, or offer to go and buy you some
tampons or something.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Like all of those things.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
At what point are we actually just punishing men for
transgressing our ideas of masculine boundaries.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
But I think the difference with this and how it
seems to get defined, it's not about men who are
doing things that you would traditionally see as more feminine,
like the nail painting. It's more about how they're performing
their love of femininity.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Should we want men to try and like play with
different like even if they have their Sally Rooney and
maybe they'll hate it, But like I thought we were
in cocouraging men to read, like isn't that a god?
Just sit there with your book and maybe they'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
But it's if they actually read it, Jesse's when it's
they're on the table at ten different angles for them
to post it on the Instagram to get validation from
women that they're reading it.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That in itself a bit of a power in version
that men are suddenly aware of the female guess, that
the male gaze has like impacted us all so much
that now they're not only aware of the female gaze,
but they're pandering to it.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Great, we could do with a bit more of that.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
No bit, Jesse, This is justin Baldoni. You're saying how
great this is that they're pandering to the female gaze.
But have you ever spoken to a man who talks
about how he's a feminist every second sentence? It's very annoying?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yes, But have you ever spoken to a woman who, like,
I know a lot of women who talk about feminism
and social justice issues and all of that, and they're assholes?
You know, like, sometimes people are just assholes. I keep
seeing these new terms, even like himbo is the other
one that's.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Going No, no, let me tell you about the other
way please, just could be an interesting in contrast, So
we've got the performative males, which unsurprisingly have been a
species explored by, among other publications, The Guardian Lads come
in with its hot take on Travis Kelsey, who I
thought was pretty universally I thought he was nice.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
No, apparently he's not just a himbo, he's a who
me man? And that's a problem. Let me explain the
who me man? So this is the guy who comes
across as done but lovely but is actually full of
strategy and calculations. They refuse to talk about politics, but
that's only because they've decided that being a political works
(21:47):
for them. So Travis. That's why Travis is kind of
the patron saint of this crowd, because think about the
fact that Donald Trump says on social media that he
hates Taylor Swift. Shortly afterwards, Travis Kelsey has asked if
he will ever go to the White House if he
wins a big football game, and Travis says, yeah, why not,
It'll be an honor. And that's the problem with the
(22:08):
who me man. It's a lot of why not, Oh,
I don't really have views on politics. Oh I don't
do politics. And there's lots of other examples of this
kind of man in popular culture. Think about like Glenn Powell.
People thought he was having an affair with Sidney Sweeney
when they did a forgettable movie together and she got
all the heat for it, but he just sort of
sat in the corner looking Hanson with his square jaw,
(22:29):
not weighing in, or even Jason Momoa. I didn't really
know about this, but the Slate article tells me that
I thought he was a lovable lunk, But no, apparently
there's allegations he's been drinking a lot on set and
getting really unpleasant. So that's the Homi man. But then
I'm thinking, how do men win? Because we're told that
they talk too much about feminism, they're a performative male,
(22:51):
they don't talk about feminism enough. They are wo me.
And then you just got the in cells in the middle.
So is there a right way to be a man
these days?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And do we force them into the end? Like I
don't want to patronize men? And I think that it's
like the idea.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I was listening to someone speak recently who was talking
about how we all go, how.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Do you be a good man? What a feature of
a good man? Like that the first problem?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
By the way, talking about how to be a good man? Yes,
And it's like nails on a chalk water.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yes, And she just went, can we just talk about
being a good person? Like they're the same criteria, the
same qualities. There's a tone of contempt that I think
underlies a lot of these Internet conversations, and I found
it in abundance in that Slate article that was like
men can tell when people are being sort of needlessly
(23:40):
cruel about them even there was a line in the
Slate article that said football is by its very nature
and inherently American sport and therefore inherently political. It's unavoidable
for a white man in professional football to be non partisan,
and I was like, I can see how that becomes exhausting.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, but this to get back to the performative man,
this is about them pretending to be a feminist, not
actually being one, and that's why people have such strong
feelings about it. So I wanted to make sure that
the audience know how to spot this man in the world.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Give me more exams, Okay, So I.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Polled our Mamma Mia team, who had a lot of
strong feelings. I got flooded, quite frankly, with the things
that make you a performative man. So there's ones that
we've kind of talked about, like proudly having the tampons
in the console of the car to kind of show
their they're an ally to the women. I think that's helpful.
They carry the canvas hope we know that one. They
(24:33):
usually own a shirt that says the future is female,
but don't ask you any questions.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
On a date.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
This is why they're getting annoyed, which is fair enough.
They have a lot of these feminist books you speak of,
you know, like The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath. They've
got that on their bookshelf. But if you look closely,
the spine is not crat it's there for display. It's
not there to be read or betty. Yet they're reading
them in public, but they're making sure they're angled up
so everyone can see what they're reading in public.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Stacy, have you ever done that? Maybe a little bit?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Have we ma just a book to have in our
bag for those moments when other people will see our cover.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
That's the problem with the ca Have I allowed the
corner of my book into an esthetic photo of my
feet on the beach?
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Mate?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Have you amazed? Am I a performative man?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I think, Amelia Stacy. We did a subscriber episode recently
that was a lot of fun and it has inspired
a lot of input from the out loudest. We came
across a substack newsletter by a writer called rich Childless Godmother.
That's an unusual name, it is it is, which was
(25:43):
just a list of low steaks, silly things that she
deemed offensive. For example, she said arriving exactly on time
for anything is incredibly offensive.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
No, that one's incredible. Do that every day of my life,
food five minutes earlier.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Late, food intolerances as opposed to allergies. She's like, nah,
I find that offensive. And look, we decided to add
our own and in this episode we talked about island
disc goes incredibly offensive.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I'm going to one next month, I think, Stacey, I'll
see myself.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Out fruit salads that are eighty percent melon. Oh yeah,
I think everyone agrees. That's just highly offensive. When you
order a sandwich it's not cut in half. And one
of mine was when I'm eating a muffin and I
believe that brown thing to be chocolate and it ends up.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Being a raising Oh yeah, jale.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So offensive, just.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
A day ruiner, right. I wanted your contributions to things
that you deem offensive, please, Stacy.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I have so many loose leaf tea I drink five
cups a day. I don't want the admin. What are
you doing?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I don't even know how you're meant to use it, Like,
is it just bruins something.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You've got to put it in a little.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's meant to be a point of meditation and contemplation
in your days.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I don't like it, especially at a cafe. I'm paying
you to give me admin.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Now I have to find always ends up tasting bitter
because two yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And you get like eleven different pieces of contraption and
you're like, I look like an engineer.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And then always one bit ends up in your mouth.
There's always a strike, got it? And I also don't like,
speaking of cafes, the big shared tables in the middle
where you get seated right next to a stranger. Don't
like that either. Oh that's so fair. It annoys me.
Can tuna just that it exists?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
How else does one consume tuna?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I just the smell? I can't. But that's also because
I sat next to a person on a plane who
ate it on a plane, and I think it's more
that they were personally offensive to me, and my most
controversial one, I dared bring it up before I came in.
I don't like people reverse parking. Wait, that's more safe
and responsible. Just drive into the spot. I don't have
(27:52):
time for you to refresh.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Okay, Stacey. So I'm a famously bad driver and I
need to step up on my soapbox. Here I recently
took some refresher driving last year.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
You can do that.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Wow, it doesn't work very well. I could certainly try it,
and they told me that you have to reverse in
because it's something about the wheels and you'll get into
an accident. And if you don't, that's what people told me.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But I just don't. I don't want to wait for
you to reverse in.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You know what it is.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
It's embarrassing to watch someone do it and you just
feel cringe. And then I try and reverse in and
I don't make it, so I try again, and it's like,
I don't want to watch people fail.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, if you're going to do it, execute quickly and
correctly perfectly.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Some people call it parking like a spy because you
can make a quicker exit when you reverse it.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
This has played on my views. When people win like
a big award or get like a huge job, they
say that they're humbled by the Yeah, that's literally the
exact opposite of what it is.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
No, your head growing as it should, good on you. Yeah,
but you're not humbling.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, you're humbled when you lose.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, when you in exactly, thank you I've got a few,
and I'm going to say my most controversial one, just
like Stacey did for last first one. People who talk
and exercise classes in an attempt to ingratiate themselves to
the instrument Jesse.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It is absolutely not. I can't talk, I can't breathe.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Like, I want to save my thoughtful questions about how
to engage my core until the end of the class,
so that I am a rating everyone else's time, and
then the instructor and I will become very good friends
and go to coffees together. Yes, but do not waste
my time during the class with your performative questions.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Were just trying to get out of doing more reps,
That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well, but the irony is the rest of the class
needs to do more for your question, and I'm like,
I'm holding I'm pulsing.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Coffee shops where you can't add your own sugar or worse.
One time I was in London, not known for its
brilliant coffee, sorry listeners listening from the British Isles, and
I went to a coffee shop in Clapham and asked
for sugar, and they said they didn't have any sugar.
In the cafe, and.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That I called them police.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Listen, I'm prepared to have Italian's man'splaying coffee. Yeah, but
no a British barista mansplaining coffee to me was a problem.
The phrase pick your brain. Oh, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I hate it. I hate it, I completely.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I want that.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Wearing shoes inside the house. But I think that's just
sort of a rule of nature. Really, it's not a
controversial one. Sitting on the aisle on the bus like,
I'm sorry, is this your personal limousine? Like, move across.
And sometimes I will simply make a point of asking
them to move when there are plenty of other seats,
because I want to affirm and confirm with them that
(30:41):
this is public transportation.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
It's part of the social contract, exactly, It's.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Part of the social contract. And don't put your bag
on the seat. Your bag is not precious unless it's
an Hermare's burken. I don't want it on the seat,
in which case likely not the bus. Final one. This
is really controversial. Umbrellas. I think they're antisocial.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Oh my goodness, because.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
You're just always poking people, you suddenly lose all sense
of personal space. You should be wearing a raincoat.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Rank that's actually a great ada.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
You've blown my mind a bit because the other thing
about umbrellas is that I often do use an umbrella,
but what I find is that I come inside if
they don't have a place to put it. I'm also
just dripping wet umbrella water, which I feel like safety.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Little plastic bag.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yes, but sometimes I don't have it and.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
It's probably choking turtles.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Actually, that's actually so true, all right.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I have a few additional ones that I wanted to
add to unsolicited texts with deals on injectibles, like it's
just a Tuesday and it's like, we have a great
deal for you to just get so many injectibles, and
I'm like, okay, that's such.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
A good point. I feel like I'm never going to
book a beauty treatment that I got texted about.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
No, No, I feel offended. One hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I don't want my injectibles discount. Why have they on sale?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
When I tell someone I have a two year old
and they don't gasp and ask how I'm old enough
to have a child.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Oh, every time I do it, I pause and.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I'm like mate, and they just go on with things,
and I'm like, wow, okay, that's actually really rude. When
it appears that someone's wearing runners with no socks, I
feel a bit sick because I just think about their shoe,
like their force and the sweat, and I don't like
it walking into someone's bathroom after they've had a shower
and it's steamy. Yeah, it feels yuck, Like it feels
(32:26):
like I'm too close to their naked, unclean buddy.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
And it also feels like the word moist is just
hanging in the air.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And actually, can I add that to the list of
things we are defensive?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
That were And.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Sometimes it's mixed with someone's deodorant. I remember being in
a hostel once and I was in somewhere in the
US it's really humid and going into the communal bathroom
and it was just steam and other people's deodorant, and
I was like, I actually just yuck. And my last
one is any physical evidence that a human being has
consumed cereal?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I mean mush in the sink, Like if I got
into the work kitchen and there was remnants of like
corn flakes and milk stuck to a plate, Like I
just think there's something about breakfast that irks me a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
The Outlouders sent through some really good ones. Should we
just run through a few?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
My favorite was Natalie who wrote people that drive around
with music blasting through their speakers that are attached to
the outside of their cars. Yes, this happens in New Zealand. Natalie,
it happens in Australia too.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I hate it.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Also, Adele, I completely agree with this one. Seeing people
brushing their teeth even in movies and stuff. I don't
like it, but any again, it's any evidence. It's like
the glob of toothpaste.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Anything to do with being reminded that people have bodies
and require sustenance.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I think all their mouths, I think. I just don't
like human mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And some people are very aggressive with it. I yeh,
that's what it is. And I loved Natalie's. This is
one that I absolutely agree with. People that use their
phones to text and still have the keyboard sound on
so you can hear the thumbs and the driving.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Us Barbara actually had This was my favorite because I
thought it the other day. She had when people are
walking along like on a footpath in a non designated
area smoking The other day, I was genuinely offended by
a man who was walking down I had Luna in
the pram just like.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Like, is that chu legal?
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I'm like, because all the second hand smoke was just
like lofting. You know what, if you want to smoke,
go for it. But the idea of doing it on
a street like near a library where Luna was just going,
I just went, that's very antisocial.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Judith, I've got a bone to pick with you. Yours
was pedestrians dawdling across the intersection when there is a
long line of cars waiting for them. Pick up the pace. People, No,
I disagree, Judith. As a pedestrian, I am the one
who was not contributing to our carbon footprint. I am
the one getting out into the fresh air. And no
(34:52):
matter how long the line of cars is, I take
my time when I'm walking.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
One of those is actually offended. And Judith, I'm with
you on this. You're offended that it's not a light
Like sometimes.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I look at it and I go, we've got some
city planning.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Found some common ground for me and Judith.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yes, what you want is for it to be a
light so that the traffic works, but it is a real,
real issue around train stations.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I just go and make it a lot. I'm sorry,
I didn't think about that. That's true.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
More out loud as.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
We had so much fun with that subscriber episode. I
just I have so many more. I have like a
notes out that is just brimming with things that annoy me.
If you're looking for something fun to listen to, you
can find that subscriber episode in our show notes. After
the break, is it time for the Great lock In?
We discuss one unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes
(35:42):
every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers.
Follow the link in the show notes to get us
in your ears five days a week. And a huge
thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
If you are part of supet In and the Great
lock In of twenty twenty five, this is how you're
actually getting to Stephen sister.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It is the Great lock In season, and not a
lock in where you hide yourself from world, but where
you lock in on yourself for the.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Rest of the year.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
You guys are going to see all over your few
page of people joining the lock In.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Are we feeling inspired?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
What is a lock in?
Speaker 4 (36:22):
What are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
So, according to the New York Times, we're entering the
Great Locking Era. It is a term that has been
popularized by social media users who are embarking on a challenge. Now,
this challenge is similar to do we remember seventy five hard?
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I didn't participate in it, but I remember it.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I remember criticizing it from afar.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Yes, what is seventy four?
Speaker 3 (36:46):
It was seventy five days and it's like a health
and fitness challenge and it was like drink this much
water and read eight pages of a book and do
ten thousand steps and da da da dad, like it
was a mad challenge all the Winter Arc which was
last year's version of this, And it's a Northern Hemisphere
trend where individuals commit to setting and achieving significant personal
(37:07):
goals in the colder months in the lead up to
sort of New Year, and it's meant to counteract the
instinct to hibernate.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's dry July.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah exactly, Yeah, except you just tick off everything and
you become a better version of yourself in colder.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Australians are like, you're just going to try not to
drink alcohol for a month. In the Northern Hemisphy, they're like,
I'm going to write a book.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, in four months exactly. While we in Australia, obviously
we're not entering the cooler months. It does feel like
we are.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Suddenly barreling towards the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
We spoke about the term lock in a few months
ago because it's a gen Z popularized sort of slang term,
and it's about entering a state of deep focus and
concentration aka putting your phone down for four minutes and being.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Like I'm locked in, right.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
But the idea is that we are all going to
hunker down for the rest of the year and do
all the things that we said we set out to
do in January when we were fundamentally different people. We're
going to run that marathon, We're going to clean out
the cupboard, we're going to get that promotion. We're going
to increase our savings. Stacy, are you locking in?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Can I lock out? Get me out? Leave me on
the outside. I just feel like this is like New
Year's Resolutions rebranded, except we have to do them every
quarter and I'm just like I've failed already. We're you know,
ten days into the month. I don't want to do it.
I don't want to do it, but.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
I have fundamentally resent having to think about the year
in terms of quarters. I am an accountant.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
How about your goal, so, Stacy, have you simply achieved
them all?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I don't even remember what they were even from last week.
But I feel like this is part of the success
society that we're in now. Like I was reading this
article in medium about that and how it's seen now
as the holy grail of human existence. Like you have
to be striving for the next thing, getting that promotion,
Like you can't just be seen to be enjoying yourself
(38:58):
eversting coasting, Did you lock in? Jesse?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
I love the idea of locking in.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I just read this and I went, I need new stationary,
Like I need a new notebook.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
People, what do you mean?
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Like one which has like a little pitchure of you
at the top and it says from the desk of
Jesse Steep.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. And maybe a personalized
pen that costs a little bit too much money. Like
I just feel like I was speaking to a business
owner recently who was saying that in Australia, things wind
down and they basically like switch off on Melbourne Cup Day.
They're thinking January on Melburne Cup Day, which is November
the four.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
No. But this is why this lockin idea is a
fundamentally Northern Hemisphere concept, because we are on the verge
of silly season. So I learned recently that silly season
is apparently just an Australian and British invention. It's not
discussed around the world. I had to explain to my
American partner what a silly season was. Americans don't have
(39:53):
a silly season. It's just always fundamentally low key silly there.
And I know it's just about to happen here because
I said to two friends of mine who are very busy,
who I just had dinner with, can we see each
other before Christmas? And then we realized it's already gotten
to the point where it's like after Christmas.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
There are four months left.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Maybe they just didn't want to see me again, but
they said they were too busy.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I think we have a third of a year left.
I don't know why I'm doing the same because I'm like, guys,
it's basically holidays like come on, the goals can't be achieved, Amelia.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
How about like are you going to run a marathon?
Are you training for?
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:28):
You know that, Jesse. That's so funny that you asked
me that. I am just trying to go to exercise
classes and stay silent during them. That's just my goal here.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
But I feel like we're just trying to set up
too many ways for ourselves to fail. Like everything feels
like it's very achievement in milestone based now, Like even
with parenting now, don't you feel like, at least like
having little kids, everything is about leaps and milestones. And
I don't think our parents' generation would have had a clue,
like when we were meant to roll over, Well, it's
about enrichment.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Also, you nailed it before, Jesse. I can say this
because m Venom's not here right now.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Jen Z.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
It has to stop coming up with phrases mean not
looking at TikTok, and the.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Irony is they keep coming up with those phrases and
sharing them on TikTok.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
She's going to come at me because this is what
you have to do.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Participants in the lock In, Locked In, Great lock In,
whatever they call it challenge are encouraged to share their
personal pledges online and to upload daily progress updates to
hold themselves accountable. And it's like, you would get more
done if you're creating less content.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Is like the general, the general, stop talking about locking down.
Maybe you could get your.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Goals exactly before we go, Stacy, you are bursting with
a midweek reco That's not it's blasphe for me, But.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Do you find that offensive?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
You're fucked with the format? Please take the floor, Stacy.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Okay, are you both Team Conrad or Team Jeremiah?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Is this a reality show?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
No, it's not.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I don't know what that is?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Okay, good. So, depending on where the listeners sit, can
either hear them screaming at their phone right now telling
me that they are Team Conrad, which is the correct answer, FYI,
or they're like you two and look very confused.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Is this Twilight?
Speaker 1 (42:20):
No, it's kind of the new iteration of Twilight. Yes.
So what I'm talking about is the show called the
Summer I turned pretty okay.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
I keep seeing the abbreviation of this, which is like six, like,
what are we It's like to.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Submer it and I'm going, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
You? Yes, so this show is like a teen drama. Like,
make no mistake, I'm not meant to be watching it.
But all millennial women at the moment that I seem
to have conversations with are saying to me, are you
watching the Summer I Turn pretty? I'm catching up on
the Summer I turn pretty. It has hit fever pitch.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Because I thought this wasn't a new show. I thought
people were talking about this a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
No, so it's in the third season now. The finale
is next week. But I want you to hear it.
I want you to hear what this show sounds like,
just to get the vibe.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
My family spends every summer in Cousins Beach with my
mom's best friend and her two sons and Jeremiah. They've
always seen me as a little kid, but this summer,
so you go later, it's different. Damn you work hot,
Stop flirting with my sister.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Do you want to be with him? Be with you
is all I've ever worn it. Okay, it's great, be
with me.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Then I watched an episode of this a few years ago.
I remember they go to a beach. She's like and
everyone's like, Wow, you've turned into a woman.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I'm like, eh, it's like that classic you took your
glasses off and suddenly you're hot. Yeah, but she turned sixteen.
They go to Cousins Beach in the Hamptons in this story,
and her family holidays every year with the Fisher family.
So this Conrad and Jeremiah are the brothers who are
around her age as well as her own brother. So
the main character is Isabelle Conklin. So they nickname her Belly
(43:57):
for some strange reason unclear. That's the nickname of this girl,
and both the boys fall for her and drama and shoes.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
So this is like the handreds are so fancy? Is
that like rich people? Drama? Like is that the vibe?
Speaker 1 (44:11):
So the Fisher family is rich, but Belly's family is not.
They are just friends of this family, so like swept
into this world every summer and spend all of this
time with them. And look, the dialogue's not great, the
plot pretty unbelievable. The two brothers would just go so
hard over one one family friend a bit weir, but
(44:31):
you won't care because it's like a version of the
OC Like did you watch the Okay, it gives you
that like heartsick, like excited feeling team, I've.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Got an older reference. Is it like Dawson's Creek?
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Exactly? That was the other one I was going to reference.
Is Dawson's Creek. It is exactly like that. Like it's corny,
you won't care, You'll love it.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Is it on Netflix?
Speaker 1 (44:55):
No on Amazon Prime, Amazon Prime And across the city,
across Sydney, multiple pubs are shutting down on Wednesday nights
to hold these viewing parties. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Dropping once a week at the moment, yeah, once a week.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
That's why I was really escapist and lovely. Maybe what
I'll lock in on?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Yeah, you should lock in on binging this by next
Wednesday so you can watch the finale.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
A big thank you to all the out Louders for
listening to today's show and our fabulous team for putting
it together and friends, do not forget.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
You can also watch us on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And if you enjoyed this episode, maybe you want to
give a friend a kick up the bum and tell
them that they need to lock in because they've not
achieved any of their goals.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Send them this episode.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
We are finding new out Louders every day and it
is always such a joy.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
We will be back in your ears tomorrow. Bye bye.
Shout out to any mom and Mia subscribers listening.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
If you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
There's a link in the episode description
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Welcome to Mumma out Loud.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
What women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the tenth
of September.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I am Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I am Amelia Lester, and I am Stacy Hicks.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Feeling in for Holly and Holly is off today.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Stacy, you busted the door down because you it's not customary,
but you say.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You have a midweek recommendation.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I'm just breaking the rules. I busted in. I've
got one. It's good. I promise, I promise it's good.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Well, we're going to save it till the end of
the show. Here is what is on our agenda for today.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
There's been an update to the infamous Coldplay concert affair
and it will change the way you view relationships.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
There are two new species of men that we need
to be looking out for in the wild.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And the great lock in. Why all your goals suddenly
feel urgent? And self optimization is very much on the agenda.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
But first, in case you missed it, a new season
of Succession Disdrupped.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Give it to Me please just kidding.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
What actually happened was the Murdoch family, on whom the
TV show Succession is based, have finally figured out how
to divide up ninety four year old Rupert Murdoch's billions.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I know you were worried for them.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's so stressful.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
What actually happened was apparently they hadn't even thought about
this until they started watching Succession, and then they looked
at each other and said, hang on, we've got to
figure out what to do with these billions because Rupert
will probably slip his mortal coil soon. So this cued
many years of infighting, many many years. They ended up
in a court room in Nevada, which is in the
(01:54):
middle of the desert. Apparently there's a state laws that
are a bit more flexible than in other states, and
they all started fighting each other and they figured out
what to do. Let me explain how they figured it out.
There are four older children from Rupert Murdoch's first two marriages,
Kendall Connor, Ship.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And the one who gets nothing.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
There are two from his marriage to Wendy Dang. We
can set those two aside. They just want the money.
They're not interested in the power so we don't have
to worry about them. We're just talking about the four
older kids from the two first marriages. The problem is
they don't agree politically. Lachlan Murdock, who was Rupert's favorite,
he's all in on Fox News, which is how Rupert
(02:39):
has made a lot of his money. He loves the
fact that Fox News pushed Donald Trump into the presidency.
He's a big conservative. Some people say he's even more
right wing than Rupert, and he wanted to go full
steam ahead with Fox News. The other three older siblings
not fans of Fox News, not fans of Donald Trump,
not fans of the conservative news empire, and they wanted
(02:59):
to change it. So there were many, many years of
in fighting. But it turns out that those three older
siblings have been reassured with the offer of one point
seven billion dollars to walk away and never interfere with
Fox News again.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's fine, got to do it, Yes, I mean, I'm
good to me that.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, Lachlan takes over Fox News when Rupert dies and
goes full steam ahead on the conservative bent of Fox News,
and the other three just get to enjoy some time
on yachts. They've promised they'll never get involved with Fox
News ever again.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Okay, so this is my theory because interesting timing is
what I'll say. On Friday, Stacy, did you listen to
Friday's episode?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I sure did.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Okay, well, it's an episode you would know that we
talked about the Google doc that everyone needs to fill
out the satche before the spreadsheet, right, that you need
to fill out before you die. So my theory is
that Rupert listened as he often does, and he went,
I've got to get to the bottom of this because
you never know, you never know when your time's up.
And so he went through he put in his Facebook password,
(03:59):
Twitter password like details of what he wanted to happen
with his mail, and then he just wrote Lachlan.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
He just said, Lachlin, and I'm all in on.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Lock clank go with Lachlin. I think that's probably what happens.
But I don't think that they're going to be talking
to each other anytime soon. So James Murdoch, who some
people say is the smartest Murdoch some people, Yeah, if
you're listening Rupert and Lachlin, and he has spoken about
how Rupert was really mean to him all through this
(04:27):
Rupert's lawyers in a deposition said things to him like
have you ever done anything successful on your own? And
also why were you too busy to say Happy Birthday
to your father when he turned ninety?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Oh that's petty.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
So James was very upset about all of that, and
I think it's safe to say that Lachlin and James
are kind of like the new William and Harry. They're
not talking and I don't see a reconciliation in the
cards anytime soon.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And is important to my millennial reference point is that
Lachlan is of course married to Sarah Murdoch, form the
host of Australia's Next Top Models, and that's what matters.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
That's what matters. Yeah, okay, So we always talk about
how the world's small, fragmented than ever now it's impossible
to gain mass attention. But nothing quite united the world
quite like the Coldplay concert chating scandal. Like you would
have been hard pressed to find someone who didn't know
the details of that, so you'd probably never even heard
of the company astronomer before the CEO, Andy Byron, was
(05:26):
called canoodling on the kiss can That's the only way
to describe it. Isn't it with his chief people officer,
Kristin Cabot back in July July. This moves fast. I
feel like that was yesterday. So despite them reportedly being
in happy marriages, this occurred. The world made memes about it.
But there's been an update to the story now that
(05:48):
might change how you look at it. So it pops
back up in the headlines again a few weeks ago,
because Cabot officially filed for divorce last month. But now,
in a statement to People, Cabots soon to be ex
husband Andrew Cabbot, has confirmed that they were separated long
before the Coldplay concert occurred. He says several weeks so
maybe not long before, but several weeks before, and they
(06:10):
had made the decision to be divorced before that night.
Now we don't know if the same is the case
for Andy Byron. He's never spoken publicly, but you know,
suffered huge ramifications from this story, had to step down,
as did Kristin Cabot. Neither of them have spoken, but
this is a pretty crucial detail in this story that
no one was privy to, and yet everyone has made
(06:31):
their decisions about it and moved on. So do you
feel like, this changes it for you, Jesse.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It changes everything.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
And I feel like at the time we were saying,
we don't know what the arrangement of someone else's marriage is.
We don't know if they're still together. It was two
seconds of footage and people jumped on so fast, and
images of her and her husband were released pretty immediately.
(06:58):
You can't retract the headlines and the comments and all
of that on the internet forgets fast because even the
way that it works is that everything's just the new
update now, but no one's reading the new update because
the virality and the intensity of that moment has passed.
So the narrative, it was never about the facts or
the truth or you know, the reality of their marriage.
(07:20):
It was about a narrative that was corporate dishonesty. Yeah,
the way that we are tricked and manipulated and they
just flaunt the rules, those people at the top of
the corporate ladder. And we liked that narrative and it
was neat, and then we moved on and then the
details sort of don't matter. I'm watching this now and
(07:41):
I'm like, okay, are we retracting the opinion cases?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Well, yeah, this just makes me think about an adage
that my mom has always passed along to me, which is,
you don't know what is happening in someone else's marriage,
no matter how much you think you know, even if
it's your best friend at alone, some random person on
the internet, you just can never actually tell what the
dynamic is. And I feel like that's really relevant in
(08:05):
the Internet age, because the way we think we understand
people's relationships is what they post on social media or
how they act on social media. And don't you think
that the people who talk the most about how happy
they are on social media are often the ones who
end up coming out and saying it's all falling apart.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, totally. The people who are always loudest about their
relationships are always the ones that you end up suddenly
seeing the breakup post from on the notes app on
their Instagram.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Even Jennifer Lopez j LO as I as I know
her was gushing about how she'd never felt more beautiful
than when she was with Ben Affleck, and then a
couple of weeks later they were filing for divorce. Like,
I feel like you're protesting too much, You trying to
prove something to.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, fast on, fast off, Yeah, I always worry about that,
and I have a theory.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We spoke I remember maybe a few months.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Ago about vow renewals, because remember Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola
Peltzbeckham were getting their vows renewed, and it's like, oh,
is that a is that almost like a red flag
that you kind of feel the need to display your
love after two years?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yes, And the loudness of it I think makes people
feel a little bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And yeah, what are you trying to prove? What are
you trying to say to us? Here? We get it,
you're married.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
What's behind it?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
But then I was talking to some friends last night
and have you seen the images from that of our
renewal with yes, so pictures of it's not just of
our renewal, Like she's in a wedding dress, Nicola pel Oh, Yeah,
like and she's looking stunning.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And we were saying, she's changed her.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Hair, right, So she was blonde the first time she
got married, and now she's a brunette.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
She's looking great, And that's key.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
It's key because it feels like when Mea gets a haircut.
People might not know this, but every time Maya gets
a haircut. She wants new headshots, and she says.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
We have to make a new art.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Were like, we can't just design our lives around you
and your haircut now, because you're changing it all the time.
So I think that sometimes with marriages and with weddings,
we think, well, now I'm a brunette wife, and so
I need images to reflect who I am now, and
we'll all say how we look back at our pictures
and go, well, I wouldn't mind redoing a bit of
(10:15):
a photo shoot. I was six months pregnant. I wouldn't
mind having a little bit of a waste.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
My wedding day was called Stormageddon in the papers the
next day, so you can imagine the humidity that I
had to deal with as a curly girl, so the
hair was not at prime. I would love to renew
for that reason alone.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Your husband doesn't need to be there, no see you
in a photography me exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I do have regrets about the fact that I got
married in maybe the most humid place in the world
at the most humid time of year, and I wore
my hair down because I was going for Kate Middleton vibes.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That was what we thought looked good.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Back then and now I'm like, that was not very
practical of me. The hair should have been up.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
We were saying, it's like, you think you're gonna wake
up on your wedding day because we're sold like this
kind of princess lie that we're going to wake up
on our.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Wedding day and look like a bride.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
But you wake up and you still have your face,
and you still have your body, and it's still you
still and you smile like an idiot, and do you
look at pictures You're like, my photographer was absolutely brilliant,
but like, I am not the stuff of Bridle magazines.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
But in my vowur renule, perhaps I will be. Perhaps
I will be.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I know is Nicola Peltzberg. And that's why we will
get a vour nule every two years for the rest
of time.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Three and a half sorry, very significant date.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Time has flown exactly three and a half years.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
I'm just wondering to bring it back to the Coldplay
couple if what their big mistake was here was that
they looked so guilty instead of leaning into what we
now understand to be kind of like hot divorce energy,
they were feeling themselves there at the Chris Martin serenade
until the camera came onto them.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Because they were time.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
That was their crime. They looked guilty rather than embracing
the energy of divorces.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
There was a great article in the Sidney Morning Herald
at the time by Tim Duggan, who writes a lot
about work and career, and he was saying that what workplaces,
all workplaces should have is something called a relationship.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Registry, and that's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You need to have it because I wonder if when
they hid. There's a lot of ways to read it, right,
it's maybe to protect the children. We don't know if
the other guy in it. I'm sure like it does
look like maybe he was still in Yes, but her
maybe she didn't want our kids to know. Also, the
workplace might not have known yet. And stats show that
(12:38):
like between one in three and two in three people
have had a relationship in the workplace.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I think I know someone.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I think that.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We work as the one in three because anyone else
had I have.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I'm also married to my former co.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Work in three. You're the odd one out of me.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I cannot imagine doing it, but God bless you well.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It says that what you should have is like a
relationship registry where the whole office doesn't need to know,
but because of things like conflicts of interests and promotions
and you know, lines of management and everything, you just
let them know. You can just put it on like
to your HR person. I mean, the issue is she
was at HR. Maybe she put it in. Maybe she
did put it in exactly. And the issue is too
(13:20):
what if you want to declare the relationship but both
of you are married, Like, is that something that the
workplace can condone? Are they the morality police or are
they just kind of watching how it kind of plays
out in the workplace?
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Can I can I ask a little bit of an
intrusive question, Stacy, when you got together with your now
husband at work, don't you have to tell HR and
sort of the HighRes up at some point? And how
did you decide when to do that?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
We did, and we then had the conversation over well,
I don't want to go in. You go in, you go,
you go tell him, you go telling me what you
are closer with him, you've been here longer, you go
let him know. So that's what we did. It's so awkward.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
It was very.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Awkward, and when the person had all gone south very quickly,
which you know it might have done. So how did
you decide? It was kind of like maybe a month
in and it was kind of.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Like brushed at each other.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I guess so. So it was
because return and have.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
A hook up and then be like, oh, I'm declaring
it to HR and they're like don't, it's over.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And then you're sitting together in an editorial meeting kitchen stories. Yeah,
so it's a very delicate space. But even other people
in this company got pulled into this story that weren't
even part of this story. Yeah, and this is another
thing that has flown under the radar. It got corrected
at some point along the line, but no one even
knows that the woman that was standing next to them
(14:43):
in the clip. Do you remember there was a woman
that kind of had this look on her face as
the kiss cam came on to them, like oh, they've
just got stung and I just need to stand as
still as possible and hope no one spots me. People
said that that was the other person that worked in
HR at the company, and they found photos it was
not her.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
She was not.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Involved in any way in the story. But that is
now something that people believe about that company. So it's
funny how these things will just move along now is
fact that that will forever be known as part of
the story. There was also a fake statement from Andy Byron,
the CEO, that got widely circulated on the day not real.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Also she resigned right yeah, and I'm looking back at it,
going she'd do anything wrong?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Did she?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Like?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I know that reputationally they can go. It caused maybe
a bit of damage, although they actually capitalized off it.
They got Gwyneth Paltrow in an ad, but I don't
know why she had to listen.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
I think when you're head of h R, it's a
bit unfortunate that she's caught in this way. But look,
I think the biggest problem with it was maybe the
Coldplay of it all. If this was at an Oasis concert.
You know, the northern summer has been punctuated with Oasis concerts,
and they're coming here soon, I think that's very on
brand Oasis. They're bad boys, like you kind of expect
(15:58):
people to be having affairs, So it felt like Coldplay
was just too wholesome. Coldplate is, as someone once said,
to me, coldplay is kind of like the porridge of
popular music. It's good for you, it's fibrous, but it's
not where you should be having affairs. I say, next
time this happens, do it at an oasis. Concept in
a moment, beware the performative male. We give you the
(16:21):
signs of how to spot one in the wild. Okay,
I'm going to describe a type of man you may
have seen out and about recently. Let me know if
this rings any bells. He's got a canvas tote bag.
He's carrying a matcher. He might have a paperback book
(16:42):
that you yourself have on your bedside table. Think Sally Rooney,
Jacob ALORDI is it him? He might have a laboo
boo dangling from a carabiner attached to the belt loop
of his wide leg jeans. Is this ringing any bells, ladies?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, I see such creatures on the train.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yes, this is a creature that we can now name.
This man has been identified. He is known as the
performative male. Move over the softboy. This is the performative male.
He's not just in touch with his emotions. He is
performing his emotions and muma me as Katie Powers wrote
a great piece for The Sight kind of summing him up.
(17:20):
She said, he puts his headphones in, picks up his matcher,
opens his book to the first page. He is a
cocktail of green flags, a man written for the female gaze.
So Katie talks about you know, none of these behaviors
are problematic. In fact, I think a man reading a
Sally Rooney book and drinking a matcher quite delightful. He's
getting his antioxidants in and he's educating himself with acclaimed
(17:44):
female writer. But I think that the issue with this
type of man, and the reason why he's been given
this name, the performed of male, is because he's just
doing it for the gram. He's just doing it to
impress women. He's not actually doing it because he loves
tortured irish protagonists and green tea. So I think also
reminds me a little bit of the sensitive new age
(18:05):
guy from the nineties, the snag. Does anyone remember that?
And I'm kind of one How unique is this new
type of man? Or is it just that every generation
has to name that man who's trying a little bit
too hard to be a feminist?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I hate this. I hate the term.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Why because it's the male equivalent of the pick me girl.
And I shudder when I hear the term pic me girl.
I find it so degrading and so sexist.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Can you just describe quickly what a pickme goal is,
because I've never really understood that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So often it's used to talk about a young woman
who seeks validation and attention by acting in a way
that they believe men will find desirable. So what annoys
me about it is that, like, the male gaze is
so just a fixture of our culture, and then when
any of us play to it as we are socialized
(18:58):
to do, we're then punished as well. And like the
idea that a heterosexual person would do something to impress
the opposite sec like, yeah, that happens all the time.
I hear women use it against other women all the time,
and I just think putting people into categories like that
is icky.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
So you think it's a bit mean, I think.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's a bit mean.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And as you say, Amelia, none of those qualities, like
some of the other qualities I saw were like men
who paint their nails or kind of play with gender
a little bit, or maybe they talk about their sisters
a lot, or offer to go and buy you some
tampons or something.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Like all of those things.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
At what point are we actually just punishing men for
transgressing our ideas of masculine boundaries.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
But I think the difference with this and how it
seems to get defined, it's not about men who are
doing things that you would traditionally see as more feminine,
like the nail painting. It's more about how they're performing
their love of femininity.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Should we want men to try and like play with
different like even if they have their Sally Rooney and
maybe they'll hate it, But like I thought we were
in cocouraging men to read, like isn't that a god?
Just sit there with your book and maybe they'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
But it's if they actually read it, Jesse's when it's
they're on the table at ten different angles for them
to post it on the Instagram to get validation from
women that they're reading it.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That in itself a bit of a power in version
that men are suddenly aware of the female guess, that
the male gaze has like impacted us all so much
that now they're not only aware of the female gaze,
but they're pandering to it.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Great, we could do with a bit more of that.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
No bit, Jesse, This is justin Baldoni. You're saying how
great this is that they're pandering to the female gaze.
But have you ever spoken to a man who talks
about how he's a feminist every second sentence? It's very annoying?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yes, But have you ever spoken to a woman who, like,
I know a lot of women who talk about feminism
and social justice issues and all of that, and they're assholes?
You know, like, sometimes people are just assholes. I keep
seeing these new terms, even like himbo is the other
one that's.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Going No, no, let me tell you about the other
way please, just could be an interesting in contrast, So
we've got the performative males, which unsurprisingly have been a
species explored by, among other publications, The Guardian Lads come
in with its hot take on Travis Kelsey, who I
thought was pretty universally I thought he was nice.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
No, apparently he's not just a himbo, he's a who
me man? And that's a problem. Let me explain the
who me man? So this is the guy who comes
across as done but lovely but is actually full of
strategy and calculations. They refuse to talk about politics, but
that's only because they've decided that being a political works
(21:47):
for them. So Travis. That's why Travis is kind of
the patron saint of this crowd, because think about the
fact that Donald Trump says on social media that he
hates Taylor Swift. Shortly afterwards, Travis Kelsey has asked if
he will ever go to the White House if he
wins a big football game, and Travis says, yeah, why not,
It'll be an honor. And that's the problem with the
(22:08):
who me man. It's a lot of why not, Oh,
I don't really have views on politics. Oh I don't
do politics. And there's lots of other examples of this
kind of man in popular culture. Think about like Glenn Powell.
People thought he was having an affair with Sidney Sweeney
when they did a forgettable movie together and she got
all the heat for it, but he just sort of
sat in the corner looking Hanson with his square jaw,
(22:29):
not weighing in, or even Jason Momoa. I didn't really
know about this, but the Slate article tells me that
I thought he was a lovable lunk, But no, apparently
there's allegations he's been drinking a lot on set and
getting really unpleasant. So that's the Homi man. But then
I'm thinking, how do men win? Because we're told that
they talk too much about feminism, they're a performative male,
(22:51):
they don't talk about feminism enough. They are wo me.
And then you just got the in cells in the middle.
So is there a right way to be a man
these days?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And do we force them into the end? Like I
don't want to patronize men? And I think that it's
like the idea.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I was listening to someone speak recently who was talking
about how we all go, how.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Do you be a good man? What a feature of
a good man? Like that the first problem?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
By the way, talking about how to be a good man? Yes,
And it's like nails on a chalk water.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yes, And she just went, can we just talk about
being a good person? Like they're the same criteria, the
same qualities. There's a tone of contempt that I think
underlies a lot of these Internet conversations, and I found
it in abundance in that Slate article that was like
men can tell when people are being sort of needlessly
(23:40):
cruel about them even there was a line in the
Slate article that said football is by its very nature
and inherently American sport and therefore inherently political. It's unavoidable
for a white man in professional football to be non partisan,
and I was like, I can see how that becomes exhausting.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, but this to get back to the performative man,
this is about them pretending to be a feminist, not
actually being one, and that's why people have such strong
feelings about it. So I wanted to make sure that
the audience know how to spot this man in the world.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Give me more exams, Okay, So I.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Polled our Mamma Mia team, who had a lot of
strong feelings. I got flooded, quite frankly, with the things
that make you a performative man. So there's ones that
we've kind of talked about, like proudly having the tampons
in the console of the car to kind of show
their they're an ally to the women. I think that's helpful.
They carry the canvas hope we know that one. They
(24:33):
usually own a shirt that says the future is female,
but don't ask you any questions.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
On a date.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
This is why they're getting annoyed, which is fair enough.
They have a lot of these feminist books you speak of,
you know, like The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath. They've
got that on their bookshelf. But if you look closely,
the spine is not crat it's there for display. It's
not there to be read or betty. Yet they're reading
them in public, but they're making sure they're angled up
so everyone can see what they're reading in public.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Stacy, have you ever done that? Maybe a little bit?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Have we ma just a book to have in our
bag for those moments when other people will see our cover.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
That's the problem with the ca Have I allowed the
corner of my book into an esthetic photo of my
feet on the beach?
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Mate?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Have you amazed? Am I a performative man?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I think, Amelia Stacy. We did a subscriber episode recently
that was a lot of fun and it has inspired
a lot of input from the out loudest. We came
across a substack newsletter by a writer called rich Childless Godmother.
That's an unusual name, it is it is, which was
(25:43):
just a list of low steaks, silly things that she
deemed offensive. For example, she said arriving exactly on time
for anything is incredibly offensive.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
No, that one's incredible. Do that every day of my life,
food five minutes earlier.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Late, food intolerances as opposed to allergies. She's like, nah,
I find that offensive. And look, we decided to add
our own and in this episode we talked about island
disc goes incredibly offensive.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I'm going to one next month, I think, Stacey, I'll
see myself.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Out fruit salads that are eighty percent melon. Oh yeah,
I think everyone agrees. That's just highly offensive. When you
order a sandwich it's not cut in half. And one
of mine was when I'm eating a muffin and I
believe that brown thing to be chocolate and it ends up.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Being a raising Oh yeah, jale.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So offensive, just.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
A day ruiner, right. I wanted your contributions to things
that you deem offensive, please, Stacy.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I have so many loose leaf tea I drink five
cups a day. I don't want the admin. What are
you doing?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I don't even know how you're meant to use it, Like,
is it just bruins something.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You've got to put it in a little.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's meant to be a point of meditation and contemplation
in your days.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I don't like it, especially at a cafe. I'm paying
you to give me admin.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Now I have to find always ends up tasting bitter
because two yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And you get like eleven different pieces of contraption and
you're like, I look like an engineer.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And then always one bit ends up in your mouth.
There's always a strike, got it? And I also don't like,
speaking of cafes, the big shared tables in the middle
where you get seated right next to a stranger. Don't
like that either. Oh that's so fair. It annoys me.
Can tuna just that it exists?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
How else does one consume tuna?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I just the smell? I can't. But that's also because
I sat next to a person on a plane who
ate it on a plane, and I think it's more
that they were personally offensive to me, and my most
controversial one, I dared bring it up before I came in.
I don't like people reverse parking. Wait, that's more safe
and responsible. Just drive into the spot. I don't have
(27:52):
time for you to refresh.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
Okay, Stacey. So I'm a famously bad driver and I
need to step up on my soapbox. Here I recently
took some refresher driving last year.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
You can do that.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Wow, it doesn't work very well. I could certainly try it,
and they told me that you have to reverse in
because it's something about the wheels and you'll get into
an accident. And if you don't, that's what people told me.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But I just don't. I don't want to wait for
you to reverse in.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You know what it is.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
It's embarrassing to watch someone do it and you just
feel cringe. And then I try and reverse in and
I don't make it, so I try again, and it's like,
I don't want to watch people fail.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, if you're going to do it, execute quickly and
correctly perfectly.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Some people call it parking like a spy because you
can make a quicker exit when you reverse it.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
This has played on my views. When people win like
a big award or get like a huge job, they
say that they're humbled by the Yeah, that's literally the
exact opposite of what it is.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
No, your head growing as it should, good on you. Yeah,
but you're not humbling.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, you're humbled when you lose.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, when you in exactly, thank you I've got a few,
and I'm going to say my most controversial one, just
like Stacey did for last first one. People who talk
and exercise classes in an attempt to ingratiate themselves to
the instrument Jesse.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It is absolutely not. I can't talk, I can't breathe.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Like, I want to save my thoughtful questions about how
to engage my core until the end of the class,
so that I am a rating everyone else's time, and
then the instructor and I will become very good friends
and go to coffees together. Yes, but do not waste
my time during the class with your performative questions.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Were just trying to get out of doing more reps,
That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well, but the irony is the rest of the class
needs to do more for your question, and I'm like,
I'm holding I'm pulsing.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Coffee shops where you can't add your own sugar or worse.
One time I was in London, not known for its
brilliant coffee, sorry listeners listening from the British Isles, and
I went to a coffee shop in Clapham and asked
for sugar, and they said they didn't have any sugar.
In the cafe, and.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That I called them police.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Listen, I'm prepared to have Italian's man'splaying coffee. Yeah, but
no a British barista mansplaining coffee to me was a problem.
The phrase pick your brain. Oh, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I hate it. I hate it, I completely.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I want that.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Wearing shoes inside the house. But I think that's just
sort of a rule of nature. Really, it's not a
controversial one. Sitting on the aisle on the bus like,
I'm sorry, is this your personal limousine? Like, move across.
And sometimes I will simply make a point of asking
them to move when there are plenty of other seats,
because I want to affirm and confirm with them that
(30:41):
this is public transportation.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
It's part of the social contract, exactly, It's.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Part of the social contract. And don't put your bag
on the seat. Your bag is not precious unless it's
an Hermare's burken. I don't want it on the seat,
in which case likely not the bus. Final one. This
is really controversial. Umbrellas. I think they're antisocial.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Oh my goodness, because.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
You're just always poking people, you suddenly lose all sense
of personal space. You should be wearing a raincoat.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Rank that's actually a great ada.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
You've blown my mind a bit because the other thing
about umbrellas is that I often do use an umbrella,
but what I find is that I come inside if
they don't have a place to put it. I'm also
just dripping wet umbrella water, which I feel like safety.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Little plastic bag.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yes, but sometimes I don't have it and.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
It's probably choking turtles.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Actually, that's actually so true, all right.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I have a few additional ones that I wanted to
add to unsolicited texts with deals on injectibles, like it's
just a Tuesday and it's like, we have a great
deal for you to just get so many injectibles, and
I'm like, okay, that's such.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
A good point. I feel like I'm never going to
book a beauty treatment that I got texted about.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
No, No, I feel offended. One hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I don't want my injectibles discount. Why have they on sale?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
When I tell someone I have a two year old
and they don't gasp and ask how I'm old enough
to have a child.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Oh, every time I do it, I pause and.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I'm like mate, and they just go on with things,
and I'm like, wow, okay, that's actually really rude. When
it appears that someone's wearing runners with no socks, I
feel a bit sick because I just think about their shoe,
like their force and the sweat, and I don't like
it walking into someone's bathroom after they've had a shower
and it's steamy. Yeah, it feels yuck, Like it feels
(32:26):
like I'm too close to their naked, unclean buddy.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
And it also feels like the word moist is just
hanging in the air.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And actually, can I add that to the list of
things we are defensive?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
That were And.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Sometimes it's mixed with someone's deodorant. I remember being in
a hostel once and I was in somewhere in the
US it's really humid and going into the communal bathroom
and it was just steam and other people's deodorant, and
I was like, I actually just yuck. And my last
one is any physical evidence that a human being has
consumed cereal?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
So what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I mean mush in the sink, Like if I got
into the work kitchen and there was remnants of like
corn flakes and milk stuck to a plate, Like I
just think there's something about breakfast that irks me a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
The Outlouders sent through some really good ones. Should we
just run through a few?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
My favorite was Natalie who wrote people that drive around
with music blasting through their speakers that are attached to
the outside of their cars. Yes, this happens in New Zealand. Natalie,
it happens in Australia too.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I hate it.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Also, Adele, I completely agree with this one. Seeing people
brushing their teeth even in movies and stuff. I don't
like it, but any again, it's any evidence. It's like
the glob of toothpaste.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Anything to do with being reminded that people have bodies
and require sustenance.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I think all their mouths, I think. I just don't
like human mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And some people are very aggressive with it. I yeh,
that's what it is. And I loved Natalie's. This is
one that I absolutely agree with. People that use their
phones to text and still have the keyboard sound on
so you can hear the thumbs and the driving.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Us Barbara actually had This was my favorite because I
thought it the other day. She had when people are
walking along like on a footpath in a non designated
area smoking The other day, I was genuinely offended by
a man who was walking down I had Luna in
the pram just like.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Like, is that chu legal?
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I'm like, because all the second hand smoke was just
like lofting. You know what, if you want to smoke,
go for it. But the idea of doing it on
a street like near a library where Luna was just going,
I just went, that's very antisocial.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Judith, I've got a bone to pick with you. Yours
was pedestrians dawdling across the intersection when there is a
long line of cars waiting for them. Pick up the pace. People, No,
I disagree, Judith. As a pedestrian, I am the one
who was not contributing to our carbon footprint. I am
the one getting out into the fresh air. And no
(34:52):
matter how long the line of cars is, I take
my time when I'm walking.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
One of those is actually offended. And Judith, I'm with
you on this. You're offended that it's not a light
Like sometimes.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I look at it and I go, we've got some
city planning.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Found some common ground for me and Judith.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yes, what you want is for it to be a
light so that the traffic works, but it is a real,
real issue around train stations.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I just go and make it a lot. I'm sorry,
I didn't think about that. That's true.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
More out loud as.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
We had so much fun with that subscriber episode. I
just I have so many more. I have like a
notes out that is just brimming with things that annoy me.
If you're looking for something fun to listen to, you
can find that subscriber episode in our show notes. After
the break, is it time for the Great lock In?
We discuss one unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes
(35:42):
every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers.
Follow the link in the show notes to get us
in your ears five days a week. And a huge
thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
If you are part of supet In and the Great
lock In of twenty twenty five, this is how you're
actually getting to Stephen sister.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It is the Great lock In season, and not a
lock in where you hide yourself from world, but where
you lock in on yourself for the.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Rest of the year.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
You guys are going to see all over your few
page of people joining the lock In.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Are we feeling inspired?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
What is a lock in?
Speaker 4 (36:22):
What are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
So, according to the New York Times, we're entering the
Great Locking Era. It is a term that has been
popularized by social media users who are embarking on a challenge. Now,
this challenge is similar to do we remember seventy five hard?
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I didn't participate in it, but I remember it.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I remember criticizing it from afar.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Yes, what is seventy four?
Speaker 3 (36:46):
It was seventy five days and it's like a health
and fitness challenge and it was like drink this much
water and read eight pages of a book and do
ten thousand steps and da da da dad, like it
was a mad challenge all the Winter Arc which was
last year's version of this, And it's a Northern Hemisphere
trend where individuals commit to setting and achieving significant personal
(37:07):
goals in the colder months in the lead up to
sort of New Year, and it's meant to counteract the
instinct to hibernate.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's dry July.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Yeah exactly, Yeah, except you just tick off everything and
you become a better version of yourself in colder.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Australians are like, you're just going to try not to
drink alcohol for a month. In the Northern Hemisphy, they're like,
I'm going to write a book.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, in four months exactly. While we in Australia, obviously
we're not entering the cooler months. It does feel like
we are.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Suddenly barreling towards the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
We spoke about the term lock in a few months
ago because it's a gen Z popularized sort of slang term,
and it's about entering a state of deep focus and
concentration aka putting your phone down for four minutes and being.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Like I'm locked in, right.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
But the idea is that we are all going to
hunker down for the rest of the year and do
all the things that we said we set out to
do in January when we were fundamentally different people. We're
going to run that marathon, We're going to clean out
the cupboard, we're going to get that promotion. We're going
to increase our savings. Stacy, are you locking in?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Can I lock out? Get me out? Leave me on
the outside. I just feel like this is like New
Year's Resolutions rebranded, except we have to do them every
quarter and I'm just like I've failed already. We're you know,
ten days into the month. I don't want to do it.
I don't want to do it, but.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
I have fundamentally resent having to think about the year
in terms of quarters. I am an accountant.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
How about your goal, so, Stacy, have you simply achieved
them all?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I don't even remember what they were even from last week.
But I feel like this is part of the success
society that we're in now. Like I was reading this
article in medium about that and how it's seen now
as the holy grail of human existence. Like you have
to be striving for the next thing, getting that promotion,
Like you can't just be seen to be enjoying yourself
(38:58):
eversting coasting, Did you lock in? Jesse?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
I love the idea of locking in.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I just read this and I went, I need new stationary,
Like I need a new notebook.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
People, what do you mean?
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Like one which has like a little pitchure of you
at the top and it says from the desk of
Jesse Steep.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. And maybe a personalized
pen that costs a little bit too much money. Like
I just feel like I was speaking to a business
owner recently who was saying that in Australia, things wind
down and they basically like switch off on Melbourne Cup Day.
They're thinking January on Melburne Cup Day, which is November
the four.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
No. But this is why this lockin idea is a
fundamentally Northern Hemisphere concept, because we are on the verge
of silly season. So I learned recently that silly season
is apparently just an Australian and British invention. It's not
discussed around the world. I had to explain to my
American partner what a silly season was. Americans don't have
(39:53):
a silly season. It's just always fundamentally low key silly there.
And I know it's just about to happen here because
I said to two friends of mine who are very busy,
who I just had dinner with, can we see each
other before Christmas? And then we realized it's already gotten
to the point where it's like after Christmas.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
There are four months left.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Maybe they just didn't want to see me again, but
they said they were too busy.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
I think we have a third of a year left.
I don't know why I'm doing the same because I'm like, guys,
it's basically holidays like come on, the goals can't be achieved, Amelia.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
How about like are you going to run a marathon?
Are you training for?
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:28):
You know that, Jesse. That's so funny that you asked
me that. I am just trying to go to exercise
classes and stay silent during them. That's just my goal here.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
But I feel like we're just trying to set up
too many ways for ourselves to fail. Like everything feels
like it's very achievement in milestone based now, Like even
with parenting now, don't you feel like, at least like
having little kids, everything is about leaps and milestones. And
I don't think our parents' generation would have had a clue,
like when we were meant to roll over, Well, it's
about enrichment.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Also, you nailed it before, Jesse. I can say this
because m Venom's not here right now.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Jen Z.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
It has to stop coming up with phrases mean not
looking at TikTok, and the.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Irony is they keep coming up with those phrases and
sharing them on TikTok.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
She's going to come at me because this is what
you have to do.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Participants in the lock In, Locked In, Great lock In,
whatever they call it challenge are encouraged to share their
personal pledges online and to upload daily progress updates to
hold themselves accountable. And it's like, you would get more
done if you're creating less content.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Is like the general, the general, stop talking about locking down.
Maybe you could get your.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Goals exactly before we go, Stacy, you are bursting with
a midweek reco That's not it's blasphe for me, But.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Do you find that offensive?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
You're fucked with the format? Please take the floor, Stacy.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Okay, are you both Team Conrad or Team Jeremiah?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Is this a reality show?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
No, it's not.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I don't know what that is?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Okay, good. So, depending on where the listeners sit, can
either hear them screaming at their phone right now telling
me that they are Team Conrad, which is the correct answer, FYI,
or they're like you two and look very confused.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Is this Twilight?
Speaker 1 (42:20):
No, it's kind of the new iteration of Twilight. Yes.
So what I'm talking about is the show called the
Summer I turned pretty okay.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
I keep seeing the abbreviation of this, which is like six, like,
what are we It's like to.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Submer it and I'm going, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
You? Yes, so this show is like a teen drama. Like,
make no mistake, I'm not meant to be watching it.
But all millennial women at the moment that I seem
to have conversations with are saying to me, are you
watching the Summer I Turn pretty? I'm catching up on
the Summer I turn pretty. It has hit fever pitch.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Because I thought this wasn't a new show. I thought
people were talking about this a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
No, so it's in the third season now. The finale
is next week. But I want you to hear it.
I want you to hear what this show sounds like,
just to get the vibe.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
My family spends every summer in Cousins Beach with my
mom's best friend and her two sons and Jeremiah. They've
always seen me as a little kid, but this summer,
so you go later, it's different. Damn you work hot,
Stop flirting with my sister.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Do you want to be with him? Be with you
is all I've ever worn it. Okay, it's great, be
with me.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Then I watched an episode of this a few years ago.
I remember they go to a beach. She's like and
everyone's like, Wow, you've turned into a woman.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I'm like, eh, it's like that classic you took your
glasses off and suddenly you're hot. Yeah, but she turned sixteen.
They go to Cousins Beach in the Hamptons in this story,
and her family holidays every year with the Fisher family.
So this Conrad and Jeremiah are the brothers who are
around her age as well as her own brother. So
the main character is Isabelle Conklin. So they nickname her Belly
(43:57):
for some strange reason unclear. That's the nickname of this girl,
and both the boys fall for her and drama and shoes.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
So this is like the handreds are so fancy? Is
that like rich people? Drama? Like is that the vibe?
Speaker 1 (44:11):
So the Fisher family is rich, but Belly's family is not.
They are just friends of this family, so like swept
into this world every summer and spend all of this
time with them. And look, the dialogue's not great, the
plot pretty unbelievable. The two brothers would just go so
hard over one one family friend a bit weir, but
(44:31):
you won't care because it's like a version of the
OC Like did you watch the Okay, it gives you
that like heartsick, like excited feeling team, I've.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Got an older reference. Is it like Dawson's Creek?
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Exactly? That was the other one I was going to reference.
Is Dawson's Creek. It is exactly like that. Like it's corny,
you won't care, You'll love it.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Is it on Netflix?
Speaker 1 (44:55):
No on Amazon Prime, Amazon Prime And across the city,
across Sydney, multiple pubs are shutting down on Wednesday nights
to hold these viewing parties. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Dropping once a week at the moment, yeah, once a week.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
That's why I was really escapist and lovely. Maybe what
I'll lock in on?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Yeah, you should lock in on binging this by next
Wednesday so you can watch the finale.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
A big thank you to all the out Louders for
listening to today's show and our fabulous team for putting
it together and friends, do not forget.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
You can also watch us on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And if you enjoyed this episode, maybe you want to
give a friend a kick up the bum and tell
them that they need to lock in because they've not
achieved any of their goals.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Send them this episode.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
We are finding new out Louders every day and it
is always such a joy.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
We will be back in your ears tomorrow. Bye bye.
Shout out to any mom and Mia subscribers listening.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
If you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
There's a link in the episode description
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.