July 7, 2025 • 38 mins
In case you missed it, the US passed One Big Beautiful Bill on Friday. But what does it all mean — for Australia and the world? We need all the explanations. Fortunately, our US correspondent Amelia Lester joins Mia, Jessie and Em V to unpack Trump's latest 'feat'.
And, our favourite astronaut Katy Perry has announced a new way to separate. Move over 'conscious uncoupling' because you've just been dethroned.
Plus, Princess Treatment. What is it and what do women have to do to get it? Surprisingly, it takes more effort than you might think to achieve this most royal of treatments.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to mummea out loud where women come to debrief.
I am Jesse Stevens, I'm me Friedman and I'm m Burnham.
And here's what's on our agenda for today, Monday, the
seventh of July. The Princess Treatment is being covered everywhere
from The Guardian to the New York Times. So what
is it and what's the problem?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Plus what micro dramas women are talking about and why
I think it's none of our business?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill has passed. But exactly
why is it? Singular, big and beautiful? Amelia Lester is
here to explain. But first, Over the weekend, Melbourne witnessed
a disturbing surge in anti Semitic violence that has shaken
the city's Jewish community and has drawn condemnation from leaders
(01:04):
both in Australia and abroad. On Friday night, in Arson
has set fire to the doors of the historic East
Melbourne Hebrew Congregation while around twenty worshipers were inside. Fortunately
no injuries were reported, but the incident has been described
as a cowardly act of violence and anti Semitism by
Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Australians have every right to be able to conduct their faith,
to engage with each other in peace and harmony. That
is the Australia that we cherish, and these actions have
no place in our country.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
In a separate incident, in estimated twenty protesters stormed Israeli
owned Miznan restaurant in Melbourne, CBD, shouting offensive chance. Additionally,
three vehicles were set allied at a business in Greensboro
in Melbourne's northeast, with anti Semitic graffiti sprayed on the
cars and nearby building. These coordinated attacks have been condemned internationally,
(02:05):
with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Nhnahu describing them as reprehensible
and calling for decisive action from the Australian government. In
response to the Victorian government has announced the creation of
a new Anti Hate Task Force to address the rising
tide of anti Semitism Mia in light of these latest
attacks on the Jewish community. And I say latest because
(02:28):
these certainly aren't the first. Surely we can all agree
that anyone who is a specific religion should not be
targeted for their faith.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Look, I'm so wary of anyone thinking that I'm speaking
on behalf of the Jewish community, or that I'm trying
to senter myself in this situation. I don't live in Melbourne.
I wasn't directly affected, but like every Jewish person in Australia,
ever since October seventh, we've lived in a different Australia,
one that we have really struggled to reconcile with the
(02:58):
one that we thought we lived in. Because I'm already
braced for people saying, but what about Palestine? But what
about Gaza? But what about the children? And this was
just a small thing, and how can you talk about
this when there are other things happening? And that's been
the reticence of many Jewish people, including me, for saying anything.
But I reject that because we always say on this show,
(03:20):
two things can be true. And you can be horrified
by what's happening in Gaza, you can also be horrified
about what happened on October the seventh, And you can
be incredibly distressed and horrified about synagogues being burned and
the anti Semitism that we've seen spread across Australia. Now
this is the latest and the most high profile, but
(03:41):
I don't know a Jewish person who hasn't experienced abuse, harassment, intimidation, threats.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Do you mean in the last twenty months or do
you mean yeah, more broadly.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, particularly in the last two years. And the Jewish
community in Australia is pretty small. There's only about one
hundred thousand or so of us, and pretty much every
single one of those people will have lost relatives in
the Holocaust, and most of those people will also probably
have relatives living in Israel, because you know, we're descended
(04:18):
from people who fled the Holocaust and fled Europe to Israel.
And the other thing that's been everywhere is these chants
of death to the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force. And
I just wanted to point out a couple of things
that I've been thinking about. I understand that people, you know,
and I don't agree with what Benjamin and Yaho's been doing,
like to be clear, many Jewish people, many Israeli people don't.
(04:43):
But I also don't agree with what Russia is doing
in the Ukraine. And many people didn't agree with what
America did in Iraq, but they weren't cheering and chanting
for the death of American soldiers or Russian soldiers. What
a government chooses to do is different to what the
armed forces do. I deployed, Yeah, they're deployed to do,
(05:03):
and they're deployed to follow orders. And you may disagree
with those orders, and I know that I do many
in many instances. But there's also something that people might
not know is that military service is compulsory in Israel.
Fifty percent of the IDF a female, and you have
to go and do military service for two years when
you're eighteen, when you finish school. So when you talk
(05:27):
about the IDF, that is Israel, that is the Israeli
population essentially. Yeah, it's a very very strange time.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
You're so right about the IDF. And to be clear,
some of the reports, the videos that many people will
have seen, the testimony about how members of the IDF
have perpetrated violence over the last two years or so
is indefensible. But I keep thinking, not.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
All of them.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well, that's exactly it, right, So this is a simplification,
but sometimes I think that's useful. I keep thinking what
Hamas did on October seven, and what the Israeli government
has done in the months since are these acts of
unimaginable cruelty. They are the result of dehumanizing a group
of people, right, just taking away their humanity and letting
(06:14):
hate fester. And that's why perpetuating that is so unhelpful.
So if you're chanting death to Blah, you're repeating exactly
the same thing, right like, you're repeating the pattern of
hate that has led to this absolute devastation.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I want to be clear, not everybody that opposes the
war in Gaza is anti Semitic. No, not everybody who
is pro Palestinian is anti Semitic. Some are, But I
don't think you can argue that setting on fire a synagogue,
targeting Jewish businesses, abusing Jewish business owners and people online
(06:56):
just because they're Jewish, which is what's happened to many
of us in the last two years, and continues to
happen every day, by the way, you can't argue that
that's anything other than anti Semitic. No matter how passionately
you feel and how distressed you are about what's happening
in Gaza, how anyone could think that this could help
(07:17):
is beyond me.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
It's why conversations around this have to be so nuanced
and so careful, because, as you say, criticism of Israel
is not anti Semitic, and there have been protests and
criticisms that I absolutely subscribe to. But this rise of
anti Semitism has also I think prevented some from speaking
(07:40):
out against the atrocities and what the UN and the
Human Rights Commission have called war crimes against Palestinian people,
because there's this question of who I am standing beside?
Am I standing beside someone who is lighting a synagogue
on fire? Because what I want to say about the
Israeli government and I've felt this when I've said things
(08:00):
about the treatment of Palestinian people, there have been people
with family in Israel or people who say to me,
you are perpetuating antisemtism. I obviously, I'm married into a
Jewish family, don't agree with that, and I think that
that is a way of suppressing really important conversations. We
live in a Western democracy. I would criticize the Australian government.
(08:22):
They have done things that I find a borring and unacceptable,
and I would the US government will probably criticize them today.
But that doesn't mean that every single person in that
demographic is answerable to what a government.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And you don't chant for the death of Australian soldiers. No, no,
And it's shocking to me. And people will say, oh,
how can you compare what someone says at Glastonbury, you know,
the performers that were leading Chance to Death to the
idea of how can you compare that to what's going
on in Gaza. You have to stay focused. It's like
just because one is terrible doesn't mean that you don't
(08:56):
call out the other.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I think it's probably really important to note as well
the rise of Islamophobia, particularly since there was this report
about how, particularly in the two weeks following October seven,
the experience of Muslim Australians, particularly women and children, being
harassed and abused on the street. There was a case
in this report that was recently released of a mosque
(09:20):
basically being desecrated with fecal matter. Like, there have been
instances like that, and that is exactly the same thing, right,
It's like a group does something that we find deplorable
and we punish people on the other side of the
world that has nothing to do with that. Yeah, So
I think that it's worth acknowledging that it's happening to
many groups who are being sort of swept up in
(09:43):
this when you know what a synagogue in Melbourne has
to do with the decisions of Benjamin Netnahoo. And I
must say when Benjamin Netanya who came out with that
statement and he said reprehensible anti Semitic attacks, he said,
these are severe hate crimes that must be uprooted. I
was like, net Yahoo, I don't think you're any in
any position to be denouncing hate crimes right now, Like
(10:04):
this is where the complication comes in.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Don't we all have to denounce hate cremes wherever?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
For me, this is the scale of this is terrifying.
I always think back to the Bondie attacks, and I
remember saying on the podcast how I had this deep
fear that before the man was uncovered, I thought he
was going to be brown because I knew all the
ramifications that come from someone who looks like me and
has the same skin color as me. And then watching
(10:31):
these attacks happen, even though the story is something that
originally for me personally felt so distance and overseas, and
now it's come home, just feels like it's heightened it
to a level that I did not expect, because when
one community is threatened, it threatens the safety of us all.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
In a moment, there's a new way to split up,
and our favorite astronaut, Katie Perry, has confirmed she's doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Celebrity split announcements are always a very rich text occasionally,
I mean my favorite ones are when they say we've
never been more in love, Yes, we are the best
shifts of friends. Yeah, and will remain in each other's
hearts and lives.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And something about a path that's like split but still intersecting,
but closer than ever before. But we live in different homes.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And sometimes you like, is this an engagement announcement or
are you divorcing anyway? Occasionally these announcements gift us with
a new vernacular to use in our own lives. Remember
Conscious Uncoupling that was in twenty fourteen. It entered the
lexicon back then thanks to Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin,
And on Friday, Katie Perry and Orlando Bloom added to
(11:37):
the cannon. The scurrilous gossip about their breakup was finally
confirmed with a story in The New York Post, and
it read due to the abundance of recent interest and
conversations surrounding their relationship, representatives have confirmed that Orlando and
Katie have been shifting their relationship over the past many
months to focus on co parenting. They will continue to
(11:59):
be seen together as a family as their shared priority
is and always will be raising their daughter with love, stability,
and mutual respect. And as you shifted any relationships recee.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I love the word shift because it feels like it's
one of those words similar to conscious uncoupling, where it's
not my fault, it's not your fault, it's the universe's fault.
We just shifted.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So it's just like you just take a tonic plates.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, And I think I'm going to start adopting that word,
like when you're like, what happened to that guy? We shifted.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Like that sphere.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I love the idea of a PR team googling synonyms
for breakup and trying to find a new one. It's
such a as you say, mayor a rich text on
how many different euphemisms there are. I don't think Orlando
and Katie are in a great place right now. They
are shifting so that Orlando is hanging with Sidney Sweeney
and Katie is grinding on a boat and I saw
(12:53):
her in some bikinis looking gorgeous, and I did think
that's what all of us need during our relaunch phase.
I have to rely I've had to rely on my
girlfriends to take my pictures when I've been dumped and
I've gone I need to let the world know single
I'm ready to mingle it. And yeah, yeah, then I've
got to say to my girlfriends, we need a photo shoot. Yes,
(13:16):
I need to look like we haven't staged a photo shoot,
and I need to look really good. She has a
whole paparazzi apparatus that she can call and be like,
I'm on a boat, I'm looking great.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I also thought another interesting addition to the cannon was
this sentence, they will continue to be seen together as
a family, not they will continue to spend time together
as a family, but they will continue to be seen together,
which means, don't get all excited when we're papped together.
It doesn't mean we're getting back together. I thought that
was interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
That is interesting. I actually do know exactly where they
got the word shift from, though, Where do you guys
know the influencer tinks. She's massive on TikTok. She's known
as TikTok's older sister, and she's a big dating influencer
who went viral during COVID. She wrote a book called
The Shift, and that's a book that every woman reads
(14:06):
after she's just been dumped because it's about changing our minds.
I'm dating to becoming singled again. I know Katie Perry
was reading that book on that boat. Well, she helpless
is going just a shift.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It's a shift.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Let's talk about princess treatment. If you're at a restaurant
and how you interact with the wheat staff and the hostess.
If I am at a restaurant with my husband, I
do not talk to the hostess. I do not open
many doors, and I do not order my own food.
It's not in any sense like you're a better than
the hostess. You're just letting your husband lead and be vasculine.
Hear me the reservation, he's taking you out, Let him
(14:39):
do the logistics.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Look, I don't hate that.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Does your partner give you the princess treatment? Is it
wrong to want it? And what does that even mean?
The term princess treatment originated on TikTok like everything, but
has since been interrogated by the Guardian and The New
York Times, so it's very serious. Legit is legit. Here's
what it actually means. It means your partner treats you
like royalty. They and let's be honest, because all the
(15:07):
examples I've seen are women talk about men treating them
like princesses. I suppose it could apply to same sex.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I know, I know women who are in same sex
relationships who request.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
The prince relationships where the man is definitely the prince.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So this is what happens. They open the door for you,
they pull out your chair, they order for you, they
shower you with gifts. But the question is, what does
the princess have to do in return? You have to
create a frictionless home. You don't burden him with your emotions.
You let your husband lead or your partner lead. And
be masculine. One creator explains that you need to lean
(15:46):
into your softness and you need to look after yourself.
You've got to exercise. Specifically, it says drink lots of water.
And I'm going to assume that's just good advice. Yeah, advice,
free health advice. But also I just chuck this in.
I think you probably need to pluck your chin hair.
I think that's part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Why do you look at me when you said that?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Confuse? So from what I understand this, I of it's
not new women talking about oh, he treats me like
a princess, right, They don't usually Like when I've heard
that expression in the past, it's not usually implied that
they have to do anything. It's more a statement about
him and how he feels or how their partner feels
(16:29):
about them.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
But this whole genre of princess treatment, like we just
heard there, is about turning it into this proactive situation
that you can make a man create, like exactly by
doing certain things, so you almost give him no choice.
Or is it about how to sort of encourage or maintain.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
The idea is that the princess treatment is a dynamic,
and that you by knowing how to accept a compliment,
by knowing how to walk, by knowing how to giggle
properly and respond to the messages, then you can kind
of encourage the princess treatment. And it's women offering each
other advice and this feels tradwife for Jason, it's because
it's absolutely trad wife ad Jason. But m do you
(17:14):
think there's actually a problem with a woman wanting to
be treated like a princess?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I actually think it's a bit different to what you said.
I don't think it's about wanting to be a princess.
I think the way that she worded this particular video,
it's in the sense that men want women who act
like princesses, so this is how you become one. And
I think she's gone. I think that's where she's getting at,
which is the same with the tradwife thing, right, Like
(17:40):
I think, and this is just a personal experience from
some of the men I've dated right now, there's like
this underlying need that it seems like these women are
coming together because there's something that's a bit off in
their relationship, so they're trying to find different ways on
how to maintain it or how to justify, how to
justify it.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's been on it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's the same thing with these dating experts on TikTok.
And the only reason they're experts is because I've just
dated a lot, I should be on there. And it's
this way of like even when when you started that video,
let's talk about princess treatment. And I'm like, we're not talking.
You're talking, and you're basically just telling us you're doing
something that you just really like to do. I don't
think it's a princess treatment. I think she just has Honestly,
(18:21):
I think she just has a kink to be treated
that way, and she's just telling us that this is
what she likes.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Oh, I think this is so interesting. So because trad
wife doesn't sound like a club you want to join, right,
But who doesn't want to be treated like a princess?
Until you think about the princesses that you can think
of Megan for a minute, Kate, Mary, Diana. They don't
really have voices, they don't really have control over their
(18:46):
own destiny. They're scrutinized constantly for their appearance is the
primary way that they communicate the.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Job of a princess's beauty and babies.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, they don't make demands, they don't have bad days.
That's so interesting. So when I first met my husband,
every guy i'd been out with before him had been
what's the opposite of a princess? They treated me like that.
They just didn't like you. Yeah, they were just dickheads.
And so when we first got together, I was really
(19:17):
had no experience of someone opening a door or wanting
to pay for my dinner or anything. And I really
pushed back on it. Not opening the door so much,
but like we'd go out and I'd grab my wallet
and he goes, you don't have to grab your wallet,
and I'd be like, I get angry with him. I'm like,
stop trying to make me high on you. And I'm
(19:37):
financially independent woman, and yeah, it didn't feel safe to me,
Like I had this inherent suspicion of what it meant
to not be independent, because the princesses aren't independent. They're
only princesses usually because their parents are royalty or their
husband's royalty.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
But I feel like what he was doing was not
like princess treatment. He was just being nice. I think
the princess treatment that I take issue is is like
the list of the stuff that the guy does is
just nice, that's just chivalry. To me, it's the stuff
that the woman has to do, Okay, a princess treatment.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Going yeah, like not make eye contact with the server,
not order what you want to eat.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Not have any big emotions, look unpopular opinion. I just
I'm a bit exhausted by feeling like I have to
have a take on everyone's relationship now and TikTok. It's
like it's trying to force me to do.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
That and princess narcissist.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There are so essential dynamics within other people's relationships that
I don't understand. Like I look at my parents, I'm like, yeah,
I don't really understand that part of your.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Marriage at all.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
But that's not any of my business. That's totally fine.
And I think that when we think that in order
to have good, healthy relationships, there are boxes we need
to tick which we're constantly being told, like your partner
should be doing this, this, this, this, this, this, I
feel like that's when things get really toxic. Like I
was listening to these experts recently talk about the psychology
(21:03):
of romance, and they were talking about how every relationship
has its own culture. That was the word they used.
You have your own culture, and in that culture, you
almost have a shared language, you have shared rituals, You
have just this pattern and this dynamic that only makes
sense to you if you made that sound or that
voice in the company of anyone else. They would not
find it endearing or cute. It's like the history that's shared. Yeah,
(21:25):
and you know that things go wrong when the culture
when that thing you always do that makes them laugh
doesn't make them laugh anymore, and you go ooh, there's
something off in our culture. But you don't need to
compare if you feel like, oh, see, our friend's gone
play tennis every weekend and we have never really played tennis,
and maybe that's how a relationship should be. Like that's
(21:46):
where I think things start to get really complicated. And
with the princess treatment, it's like, I just don't want
any stranger on the internet telling me what my relationship
should look like. I don't want any of that. I'm
absolutely fine. If you want to be treated like a
princess and that's part of your culture, all power to you.
I actually think there's no problem with that. If you
(22:08):
don't want to talk to waits to. I mean it's
a little bit rude, but absolutely. And he does this
and he pays for things, and you like diamonds fabulous.
But this thing about everyone being an expert, I'm just like, oh,
we're all negotiating our own relationships privately, Like I don't
think it's anything we can ever properly perform.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
After the break, our US correspondent Emelia is going to
tell us what the hell the Big Beautiful Bill is
and what it's going to mean for us out loud as.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
If you want to listen to us every day of
the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and mea subscriber.
Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and
support us, and a big thank you to all our
current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Last week, the United States has of representatives past Donald
Trump's tax cut and spending package, which he has called
the One Big Beautiful Bill. Now, we've talked about the
BBB before here on out Loud.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
To be mixed up with a BBL. Oh, that's a
different thing.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Different.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, and just consult your doctor if you want a
Brazilian buck lift. But this is bad in a whole
new deal.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's been different. Yes, when it actually passed, I feel
like that's when me and my friends started really talking
about it. None of us really understood what it meant,
and I didn't want to do a disservice to the
out loudest, so we bought in my direct competitor, Amelia
Lester here in the Studo today.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
This is so humble of you, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Very uncharacteristic.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
It's very different than me as well, Amelia. What does
this mean?
Speaker 6 (23:43):
So people are calling this the worst thing the US
government has ever done, so I think it's worth unpacking
a little bit, and I divided it up into winners
and losers.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Okay, great, if you'll indulge me.
Speaker 6 (23:54):
Winners rich people the extension of huse huge tax cuts
are the very richest Americans, so they will be loving it.
Ice are big winners here, I says. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement,
the people who round up immigrants and typically are wearing
face masks and then push them into unmarked mans and
take them away to El Salvador. They're getting two hundred
billion Australian dollars. To put it in perspectives, this blew
(24:17):
my mind. That is more than the total budget of
the Israeli military just for this one, sort of like
secondary police force. People who like gold they are celebrating
today because thirty eight billion dollars has been given to
Trump's Golden Dome idea, which is modeled on Israel's Iron.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Dome like a missile shield.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
Problem is that's actually estimated to cost about eight hundred
billion to build, and also experts say it's a nonsensical idea.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Losers. Is that like the wall, remember the walls?
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Like the wall. Yeah, he's given some money for that too.
Don't worry, losers, students, big increase in the cost of
university student loan debt is set to skyrocket. Young people
generally are a little concerned because it's adding five trillion
Australian dollars to the national debt, and that's going to
fall on younger Americans. People who believe in climate change
are losing out today, Trump says calls very beautiful and
(25:10):
when farms are ugly as hell. This is very much
a death sentence for wind and solar and also perhaps
for electric vehicles in the US as well. So Elon's
not pleased about that, Elon Musk. Trump wants people to
use oil and gas. Princeton researchers say that this bill
is going to increase US greenhouse emissions by more than
Australia's total emissions year on year. Oh my god, and
(25:31):
poor people. Three million Americans will lose access to food stamps,
which they used to buy groceries. Twelve million will lose
access to healthcare through a government program that provides it
to the poorest Americans.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Any questions, And is there even one tiny thing that's
good about this? Because this bill is like every single
bad thing you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
It's done.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Yeah. Look, he has thrown some bones to poorer people,
so people who earn tips don't have to pay tax
on them. I guess that's good, even though economists say
that doesn't make sense. But you are first, no, not really.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
My understanding is that this was like a nine hundred
and eighty page piece of legislation. Is common to shove
a whole lot of disparate pieces of legislation into one
and then hustle it through.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Yes, that's become increasingly common for both parties. It's because
Congress is so dysfunctional that the only way you can
pass things is by calling it a budget bill, even
when it encompasses lots of other stuff. So that is
actually a bipartisan trend in recent years.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And this is the equivalent of their budget.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yes, And how about the Republicans? Did they all vote
for this? Did they say, all of them except two,
and one of those two didn't vote for it because
he didn't think the cuts to food stamps and health
care went far enough.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Okay, and the Democrats are I imagine, stumping their faith.
Speaker 6 (26:47):
Yeah, every Democrat voted against it, and they did sort
of all these silly things like talk.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
For nine hours to try and delay the vote on
stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
But ultimately jd Vance is the tiebreaker vote in the Senate,
so he sort of swept in and made sure that
it happened.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Oh that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Can I be very selfish and ask a question about
will this bill impact Australia?
Speaker 6 (27:08):
I think it will have two. This kind of spending
has never been seen before in the US. They're basically
putting the entire country on a credit card. What that
means is there's likely to be an increase in interest rates,
and when interest rates and economic volatility increase in the US,
we inevitably see that happen in Australia. Did that answer
your question?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It did. I'm very depressed. I'm sad, but it did
answer my question.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
How loud as you may have noticed that we've stopped
saying what women are talking about as a descriptor at
the start of the show, and there's a good reason
for it, and here it is. I think when we
first came up with that line, there was much more
of a monoculture women and I'm using air quotes there.
Women were generally talking about the same broad cultural and
(27:53):
news stories ten years ago. But now things have changed
so much, and it's all mostly down to the way
algorithms and social have really sent us down these highly specific,
individualized rabbit holes, and the monoculture's sort of been flattened
by these very specific subcultures. So you might think everyone's
(28:17):
talking about a specific thing, when in fact you're just
in a rabbit hole or on a particular algorithm. And
the more content you consume about that particular thing, anything
from Trump to the bezos wedding, the more of it
you'll be served, So it ends up perpetuating itself. And
the other thing that's happened is the way the algorithm
has really flattened that distinction between what's important and what's
(28:41):
not important, And it's often what's not important that gets
the most traction, maybe because it's a distraction, I don't know,
but TikTok is particularly rife with microdramas, very low stakes
arguments between either professional content creators having drama or just
random people who decide that they need to share something
(29:02):
that's going on in their life. And I just wanted
to do a quick round the grounds of some of
the microdramas we act accidentally learned about while scrolling over
the weekend. Jesse Am hit me up.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Okay, so mine has been There's a beautiful bridle store
in Sydney and you already had your wedding there. I know,
but my algorithm is like, hey, you were married, it's
time for your second wedding, all right, do you need
another dress? Basically, this bride comes out and says that
she paid fifteen thousand dollars for a wedding gown, which
is a lot, but anyway, no judgment, and it isn't
(29:35):
the right fit. And she says that this bridal store
has done nothing to help her. She's like, I've paid
all of this money. Now I need to do four
thousand dollars in alterations, and I keep emailing to get
help from them because they've stuffed up. This is their
issue and they're not replying, and she's really angry.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
So I'm going to stop you there. That sounds like
customer service and a feedback form.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Okay, well, then what happened is that the bridal store
came out and they said, excuse me, we are being
absolutely defamed over here, and we will have you know
that the time between her getting her measurements and us
delivering the dress she ordered, she lost a significant amount
of weight and that's why it didn't fit. And I
got to the end of.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That and I was like, like, did something happen?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Now they're meeting in person? I think today. I think
they're sitting down for a meeting today, and I kind
of know where the story is so I could go
and hang out there. But I didn't need to know
any of that. In fact, that was an email chain
that I was compied into. Yes that I don't need.
I have no say. I've been c seed on an
email chain that is none of my business. Go sort
(30:32):
it out. Why am I being brought into this? M
What drama have you been consuming?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay, so Fourth of July recently happened on the fourth
of July in the US.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was just last week, the fourth
of ve Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
There was this woman who came up on my TikTok
feed balling her eyes out. She's sitting in the car,
balling her eyes out, and it was story.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Time gets me every time?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
What happened to you everytime? So she was saying, how
it was Fourth of July and she's new to the
area and she's a single mom with kids, and she
was invited by one of her kids parents to a party,
a Fourth of July party, which is a huge, huge
deal in America. You don't want to spend Fourth of
July alone. So she went to this party. She bought
a salad that she said cost her forty dollars to make.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Why do I know how much? This frandom moment and.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
She also put a photo in it and looked really good.
It was like an antipesto situation.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Okay, okay, that's important.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Sally expends and stuff. And she says she got there
and then she was like introducing herself to everyone, but
everyone seemed very cold. And then suddenly like the woman
who owns the house came in and was like, why
are you here, Like you went invited. She felt very like,
oh my god, I thought I was invited, Like why
is everyone being so mean? To me and then like
have a great drive back, like really sarcastically, and she
(31:46):
was so so upset she had to bring her kids
back in her car. Her friend who invited her apologized
and she drove back and she said she ruined her
son's Fourth of July and that story like lived with
me for the whole weekend. I was so upset. I
was like, this poor woman. I wonder what she's going
to do. Now, what's it going to be like at school?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Don't see see me, don't see see me. I've got
There are two that I had on the weekend. One
is an influencer called Sarah's Day Gore is Elijah. Yeah,
yeah you on this she was happened to do a
fragrance collaboration with a female founded fragrance brand called who
Is Elijah?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Who Is Elijah?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think I might have some of those. They're not
doing it anymore, but we don't know why. And so
there's a statement from all statements everyone's been making statements,
don't see me, Like sometimes business things don't work out.
I didn't need to know that. I want to be
removed from this nighted. The other one is a content
(32:44):
creator who I don't know accused another content creator who
I also don't know, of copying her content, which I've
never seen before. But then, of course, now I've gone
and seen both of their content, and do you think inside?
I don't care. I want to be just. I wanted
to remove Mia has left the chat, except the chat
is the Internet. And then a third content creator then
(33:07):
came and weighed in on her opinion, and I also
was dissed by this, for I can't.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
What's happening here is that content needs a hero and
a villain, right, we need to be rooting for someone,
and I think that's why that content is so addictive.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But none of this is any of my business. Why
is everything and maybe this is ironic because we're in
a podcast, but why is everything performed for an audience?
Speaker 6 (33:35):
Well?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think that there's a few things right. I'm thinking
about the fourth of July woman. I'm thinking about the
Brighter Woman. You have two choices in those situations. You
could confront the person that you're having the issue with
directly and have it out privately, or you could find
that confrontation too much and you could go and privately
in your living room, quietly, with no two eyes in
(33:56):
front of you and no one to maybe challenge your
version of events, yell at the internet. And I know
which one's easier, the yelling at the internet, right. And
it's the equivalent of Jesse going to dinner, which I
did last night, and telling a story about Luca where
Luca has no right of reply. And I can tell
you in that story there is a hero and a villain. Yeah,
(34:17):
And what I don't need is anyone to cross examine
Luca on the witness stand that.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
He doesn't need to make a real in response.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
He doesn't need, he does not need to get to
tell my narrative. I get a lot of people to
applaud me and go, Jesse, you are so right, and
I go, yes, I know I am so right, and
then I move on with my life. It's the equivalent
of the dinner table, where you just need people to
kind of give you that positive reinforcement I think.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
And main character energy.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
But then don't she run the risk? Like I think
about my fourth of July person, And doesn't she run
the risk? Because now she's gone so viral, like she's
everywhere and I have notifications turned on for her because
I am waiting for a response from someone at the
actual party.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Because I think her story is not true. I mean,
I had some questions about what occurred because I think
she walked in and she did something unusual, because you
look at it and you go Doctor Phil used to
have a line where it was like, if it doesn't
make sense, come on, there's got to be one of us.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You need all the povs.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, I need all of the point of view.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
But maybe this is just I guess, but it works
for you.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Men know those stories, so like you were in it.
You're invested at a point.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
But I don't care. I'm not saying I'm so clever
and I'm just, you know, such an intellectual that I'm
not interested in microdramas. I am, but it's quite hard
to hold them all in your head when you're following,
like it's almost like a passive thing where and then
you're suddenly in it.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yes, it's a new and beautiful I reckon. It's how
we are consuming. We've always needed this, We've always needed
like little gossipy French Revolution times the first time they
had a printing press, so they had little gossip sections
because they were like everyone Regiton needs a little bitch sometimes,
and I feel as though that's now moved to TikTok,
(36:02):
where it's I love something that's low steaks, no one dies,
there's no massive accusations at play. And in the defense
of some like who among us has not had a
moment where we have felt hard done by and thought
I'd love to go and spray them on the dae.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, But the difference in all seriousness, and I also
understand that very human desire to when you feel wronged,
you want to go.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
It's your only power, but you want to.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Find someone who will go that's fucked what happened to you. However,
when you do it online, there are real world consequences
for those other people that you're talking about, whether it's
a brand, whether it's an individual, and they didn't necessarily
want to be brought into this narrative either. So the
decision to then create content about a private situation, whether
it's a transaction or a business transaction, or a social transaction,
(36:51):
or a breakup or something that's gone wrong, you're then
opening that person up to huge real works.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
But I suppose that's the democratization of the phone, right is,
because it's the one thing that we all have. And
I remember having a situation with an airline right this
was overseas and an airline that screwed me over so much,
and I was like, I just want to post because
I know that if I post, I didn't but if
I did, then they'd have to respond. And they are
treating me like a bug on the bottom of their shoe,
(37:20):
like they don't care about me. It was like, this
terrible customer service. What power do you have other than
spraying them on the internet. So I think that that's
where we all find ourselves. A big thank you to
all of you, the out louders for listening to today's
show and our fabulous team for putting this show together,
and out Louders, if you liked Amelia's very helpful explanation
all as today, then we have trapped in the studio
(37:44):
and we've gone. There are a few other terms we
would like you to explain to us. There is so
much happening in the US, from Alligator Alcatraz to the
bill that everyone's talking about, to what the hell is
going on with Elon that we wanted explained. It is
such a fascinating episode that is going live tomorrow, so
keep an eye out for that. For all our subscribers,
we will be back in your ears tomorrow. Bye bye bye,
(38:08):
shout out to any he Mum and me are subscribers listening.
If you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so. There's a link in the episode description
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to mummea out loud where women come to debrief.
I am Jesse Stevens, I'm me Friedman and I'm m Burnham.
And here's what's on our agenda for today, Monday, the
seventh of July. The Princess Treatment is being covered everywhere
from The Guardian to the New York Times. So what
is it and what's the problem?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Plus what micro dramas women are talking about and why
I think it's none of our business?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill has passed. But exactly
why is it? Singular, big and beautiful? Amelia Lester is
here to explain. But first, Over the weekend, Melbourne witnessed
a disturbing surge in anti Semitic violence that has shaken
the city's Jewish community and has drawn condemnation from leaders
(01:04):
both in Australia and abroad. On Friday night, in Arson
has set fire to the doors of the historic East
Melbourne Hebrew Congregation while around twenty worshipers were inside. Fortunately
no injuries were reported, but the incident has been described
as a cowardly act of violence and anti Semitism by
Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Australians have every right to be able to conduct their faith,
to engage with each other in peace and harmony. That
is the Australia that we cherish, and these actions have
no place in our country.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
In a separate incident, in estimated twenty protesters stormed Israeli
owned Miznan restaurant in Melbourne, CBD, shouting offensive chance. Additionally,
three vehicles were set allied at a business in Greensboro
in Melbourne's northeast, with anti Semitic graffiti sprayed on the
cars and nearby building. These coordinated attacks have been condemned internationally,
(02:05):
with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Nhnahu describing them as reprehensible
and calling for decisive action from the Australian government. In
response to the Victorian government has announced the creation of
a new Anti Hate Task Force to address the rising
tide of anti Semitism Mia in light of these latest
attacks on the Jewish community. And I say latest because
(02:28):
these certainly aren't the first. Surely we can all agree
that anyone who is a specific religion should not be
targeted for their faith.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Look, I'm so wary of anyone thinking that I'm speaking
on behalf of the Jewish community, or that I'm trying
to senter myself in this situation. I don't live in Melbourne.
I wasn't directly affected, but like every Jewish person in Australia,
ever since October seventh, we've lived in a different Australia,
one that we have really struggled to reconcile with the
(02:58):
one that we thought we lived in. Because I'm already
braced for people saying, but what about Palestine? But what
about Gaza? But what about the children? And this was
just a small thing, and how can you talk about
this when there are other things happening? And that's been
the reticence of many Jewish people, including me, for saying anything.
But I reject that because we always say on this show,
(03:20):
two things can be true. And you can be horrified
by what's happening in Gaza, you can also be horrified
about what happened on October the seventh, And you can
be incredibly distressed and horrified about synagogues being burned and
the anti Semitism that we've seen spread across Australia. Now
this is the latest and the most high profile, but
(03:41):
I don't know a Jewish person who hasn't experienced abuse, harassment, intimidation, threats.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Do you mean in the last twenty months or do
you mean yeah, more broadly.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, particularly in the last two years. And the Jewish
community in Australia is pretty small. There's only about one
hundred thousand or so of us, and pretty much every
single one of those people will have lost relatives in
the Holocaust, and most of those people will also probably
have relatives living in Israel, because you know, we're descended
(04:18):
from people who fled the Holocaust and fled Europe to Israel.
And the other thing that's been everywhere is these chants
of death to the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force. And
I just wanted to point out a couple of things
that I've been thinking about. I understand that people, you know,
and I don't agree with what Benjamin and Yaho's been doing,
like to be clear, many Jewish people, many Israeli people don't.
(04:43):
But I also don't agree with what Russia is doing
in the Ukraine. And many people didn't agree with what
America did in Iraq, but they weren't cheering and chanting
for the death of American soldiers or Russian soldiers. What
a government chooses to do is different to what the
armed forces do. I deployed, Yeah, they're deployed to do,
(05:03):
and they're deployed to follow orders. And you may disagree
with those orders, and I know that I do many
in many instances. But there's also something that people might
not know is that military service is compulsory in Israel.
Fifty percent of the IDF a female, and you have
to go and do military service for two years when
you're eighteen, when you finish school. So when you talk
(05:27):
about the IDF, that is Israel, that is the Israeli
population essentially. Yeah, it's a very very strange time.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
You're so right about the IDF. And to be clear,
some of the reports, the videos that many people will
have seen, the testimony about how members of the IDF
have perpetrated violence over the last two years or so
is indefensible. But I keep thinking, not.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
All of them.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well, that's exactly it, right, So this is a simplification,
but sometimes I think that's useful. I keep thinking what
Hamas did on October seven, and what the Israeli government
has done in the months since are these acts of
unimaginable cruelty. They are the result of dehumanizing a group
of people, right, just taking away their humanity and letting
(06:14):
hate fester. And that's why perpetuating that is so unhelpful.
So if you're chanting death to Blah, you're repeating exactly
the same thing, right like, you're repeating the pattern of
hate that has led to this absolute devastation.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I want to be clear, not everybody that opposes the
war in Gaza is anti Semitic. No, not everybody who
is pro Palestinian is anti Semitic. Some are, But I
don't think you can argue that setting on fire a synagogue,
targeting Jewish businesses, abusing Jewish business owners and people online
(06:56):
just because they're Jewish, which is what's happened to many
of us in the last two years, and continues to
happen every day, by the way, you can't argue that
that's anything other than anti Semitic. No matter how passionately
you feel and how distressed you are about what's happening
in Gaza, how anyone could think that this could help
(07:17):
is beyond me.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
It's why conversations around this have to be so nuanced
and so careful, because, as you say, criticism of Israel
is not anti Semitic, and there have been protests and
criticisms that I absolutely subscribe to. But this rise of
anti Semitism has also I think prevented some from speaking
(07:40):
out against the atrocities and what the UN and the
Human Rights Commission have called war crimes against Palestinian people,
because there's this question of who I am standing beside?
Am I standing beside someone who is lighting a synagogue
on fire? Because what I want to say about the
Israeli government and I've felt this when I've said things
(08:00):
about the treatment of Palestinian people, there have been people
with family in Israel or people who say to me,
you are perpetuating antisemtism. I obviously, I'm married into a
Jewish family, don't agree with that, and I think that
that is a way of suppressing really important conversations. We
live in a Western democracy. I would criticize the Australian government.
(08:22):
They have done things that I find a borring and unacceptable,
and I would the US government will probably criticize them today.
But that doesn't mean that every single person in that
demographic is answerable to what a government.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And you don't chant for the death of Australian soldiers. No, no,
And it's shocking to me. And people will say, oh,
how can you compare what someone says at Glastonbury, you know,
the performers that were leading Chance to Death to the
idea of how can you compare that to what's going
on in Gaza. You have to stay focused. It's like
just because one is terrible doesn't mean that you don't
(08:56):
call out the other.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I think it's probably really important to note as well
the rise of Islamophobia, particularly since there was this report
about how, particularly in the two weeks following October seven,
the experience of Muslim Australians, particularly women and children, being
harassed and abused on the street. There was a case
in this report that was recently released of a mosque
(09:20):
basically being desecrated with fecal matter. Like, there have been
instances like that, and that is exactly the same thing, right,
It's like a group does something that we find deplorable
and we punish people on the other side of the
world that has nothing to do with that. Yeah, So
I think that it's worth acknowledging that it's happening to
many groups who are being sort of swept up in
(09:43):
this when you know what a synagogue in Melbourne has
to do with the decisions of Benjamin Netnahoo. And I
must say when Benjamin Netanya who came out with that
statement and he said reprehensible anti Semitic attacks, he said,
these are severe hate crimes that must be uprooted. I
was like, net Yahoo, I don't think you're any in
any position to be denouncing hate crimes right now, Like
(10:04):
this is where the complication comes in.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Don't we all have to denounce hate cremes wherever?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
For me, this is the scale of this is terrifying.
I always think back to the Bondie attacks, and I
remember saying on the podcast how I had this deep
fear that before the man was uncovered, I thought he
was going to be brown because I knew all the
ramifications that come from someone who looks like me and
has the same skin color as me. And then watching
(10:31):
these attacks happen, even though the story is something that
originally for me personally felt so distance and overseas, and
now it's come home, just feels like it's heightened it
to a level that I did not expect, because when
one community is threatened, it threatens the safety of us all.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
In a moment, there's a new way to split up,
and our favorite astronaut, Katie Perry, has confirmed she's doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Celebrity split announcements are always a very rich text occasionally,
I mean my favorite ones are when they say we've
never been more in love, Yes, we are the best
shifts of friends. Yeah, and will remain in each other's
hearts and lives.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And something about a path that's like split but still intersecting,
but closer than ever before. But we live in different homes.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And sometimes you like, is this an engagement announcement or
are you divorcing anyway? Occasionally these announcements gift us with
a new vernacular to use in our own lives. Remember
Conscious Uncoupling that was in twenty fourteen. It entered the
lexicon back then thanks to Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin,
And on Friday, Katie Perry and Orlando Bloom added to
(11:37):
the cannon. The scurrilous gossip about their breakup was finally
confirmed with a story in The New York Post, and
it read due to the abundance of recent interest and
conversations surrounding their relationship, representatives have confirmed that Orlando and
Katie have been shifting their relationship over the past many
months to focus on co parenting. They will continue to
(11:59):
be seen together as a family as their shared priority
is and always will be raising their daughter with love, stability,
and mutual respect. And as you shifted any relationships recee.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I love the word shift because it feels like it's
one of those words similar to conscious uncoupling, where it's
not my fault, it's not your fault, it's the universe's fault.
We just shifted.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
So it's just like you just take a tonic plates.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, And I think I'm going to start adopting that word,
like when you're like, what happened to that guy? We shifted.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Like that sphere.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I love the idea of a PR team googling synonyms
for breakup and trying to find a new one. It's
such a as you say, mayor a rich text on
how many different euphemisms there are. I don't think Orlando
and Katie are in a great place right now. They
are shifting so that Orlando is hanging with Sidney Sweeney
and Katie is grinding on a boat and I saw
(12:53):
her in some bikinis looking gorgeous, and I did think
that's what all of us need during our relaunch phase.
I have to rely I've had to rely on my
girlfriends to take my pictures when I've been dumped and
I've gone I need to let the world know single
I'm ready to mingle it. And yeah, yeah, then I've
got to say to my girlfriends, we need a photo shoot. Yes,
(13:16):
I need to look like we haven't staged a photo shoot,
and I need to look really good. She has a
whole paparazzi apparatus that she can call and be like,
I'm on a boat, I'm looking great.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I also thought another interesting addition to the cannon was
this sentence, they will continue to be seen together as
a family, not they will continue to spend time together
as a family, but they will continue to be seen together,
which means, don't get all excited when we're papped together.
It doesn't mean we're getting back together. I thought that
was interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
That is interesting. I actually do know exactly where they
got the word shift from, though, Where do you guys
know the influencer tinks. She's massive on TikTok. She's known
as TikTok's older sister, and she's a big dating influencer
who went viral during COVID. She wrote a book called
The Shift, and that's a book that every woman reads
(14:06):
after she's just been dumped because it's about changing our minds.
I'm dating to becoming singled again. I know Katie Perry
was reading that book on that boat. Well, she helpless
is going just a shift.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It's a shift.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Let's talk about princess treatment. If you're at a restaurant
and how you interact with the wheat staff and the hostess.
If I am at a restaurant with my husband, I
do not talk to the hostess. I do not open
many doors, and I do not order my own food.
It's not in any sense like you're a better than
the hostess. You're just letting your husband lead and be vasculine.
Hear me the reservation, he's taking you out, Let him
(14:39):
do the logistics.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Look, I don't hate that.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Does your partner give you the princess treatment? Is it
wrong to want it? And what does that even mean?
The term princess treatment originated on TikTok like everything, but
has since been interrogated by the Guardian and The New
York Times, so it's very serious. Legit is legit. Here's
what it actually means. It means your partner treats you
like royalty. They and let's be honest, because all the
(15:07):
examples I've seen are women talk about men treating them
like princesses. I suppose it could apply to same sex.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I know, I know women who are in same sex
relationships who request.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
The prince relationships where the man is definitely the prince.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
So this is what happens. They open the door for you,
they pull out your chair, they order for you, they
shower you with gifts. But the question is, what does
the princess have to do in return? You have to
create a frictionless home. You don't burden him with your emotions.
You let your husband lead or your partner lead. And
be masculine. One creator explains that you need to lean
(15:46):
into your softness and you need to look after yourself.
You've got to exercise. Specifically, it says drink lots of water.
And I'm going to assume that's just good advice. Yeah, advice,
free health advice. But also I just chuck this in.
I think you probably need to pluck your chin hair.
I think that's part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Why do you look at me when you said that?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Confuse? So from what I understand this, I of it's
not new women talking about oh, he treats me like
a princess, right, They don't usually Like when I've heard
that expression in the past, it's not usually implied that
they have to do anything. It's more a statement about
him and how he feels or how their partner feels
(16:29):
about them.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
But this whole genre of princess treatment, like we just
heard there, is about turning it into this proactive situation
that you can make a man create, like exactly by
doing certain things, so you almost give him no choice.
Or is it about how to sort of encourage or maintain.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
The idea is that the princess treatment is a dynamic,
and that you by knowing how to accept a compliment,
by knowing how to walk, by knowing how to giggle
properly and respond to the messages, then you can kind
of encourage the princess treatment. And it's women offering each
other advice and this feels tradwife for Jason, it's because
it's absolutely trad wife ad Jason. But m do you
(17:14):
think there's actually a problem with a woman wanting to
be treated like a princess?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I actually think it's a bit different to what you said.
I don't think it's about wanting to be a princess.
I think the way that she worded this particular video,
it's in the sense that men want women who act
like princesses, so this is how you become one. And
I think she's gone. I think that's where she's getting at,
which is the same with the tradwife thing, right, Like
(17:40):
I think, and this is just a personal experience from
some of the men I've dated right now, there's like
this underlying need that it seems like these women are
coming together because there's something that's a bit off in
their relationship, so they're trying to find different ways on
how to maintain it or how to justify, how to
justify it.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's been on it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It's the same thing with these dating experts on TikTok.
And the only reason they're experts is because I've just
dated a lot, I should be on there. And it's
this way of like even when when you started that video,
let's talk about princess treatment. And I'm like, we're not talking.
You're talking, and you're basically just telling us you're doing
something that you just really like to do. I don't
think it's a princess treatment. I think she just has Honestly,
(18:21):
I think she just has a kink to be treated
that way, and she's just telling us that this is
what she likes.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Oh, I think this is so interesting. So because trad
wife doesn't sound like a club you want to join, right,
But who doesn't want to be treated like a princess?
Until you think about the princesses that you can think
of Megan for a minute, Kate, Mary, Diana. They don't
really have voices, they don't really have control over their
(18:46):
own destiny. They're scrutinized constantly for their appearance is the
primary way that they communicate the.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Job of a princess's beauty and babies.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, they don't make demands, they don't have bad days.
That's so interesting. So when I first met my husband,
every guy i'd been out with before him had been
what's the opposite of a princess? They treated me like that.
They just didn't like you. Yeah, they were just dickheads.
And so when we first got together, I was really
(19:17):
had no experience of someone opening a door or wanting
to pay for my dinner or anything. And I really
pushed back on it. Not opening the door so much,
but like we'd go out and I'd grab my wallet
and he goes, you don't have to grab your wallet,
and I'd be like, I get angry with him. I'm like,
stop trying to make me high on you. And I'm
(19:37):
financially independent woman, and yeah, it didn't feel safe to me,
Like I had this inherent suspicion of what it meant
to not be independent, because the princesses aren't independent. They're
only princesses usually because their parents are royalty or their
husband's royalty.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
But I feel like what he was doing was not
like princess treatment. He was just being nice. I think
the princess treatment that I take issue is is like
the list of the stuff that the guy does is
just nice, that's just chivalry. To me, it's the stuff
that the woman has to do, Okay, a princess treatment.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Going yeah, like not make eye contact with the server,
not order what you want to eat.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Not have any big emotions, look unpopular opinion. I just
I'm a bit exhausted by feeling like I have to
have a take on everyone's relationship now and TikTok. It's
like it's trying to force me to do.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
That and princess narcissist.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
There are so essential dynamics within other people's relationships that
I don't understand. Like I look at my parents, I'm like, yeah,
I don't really understand that part of your.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Marriage at all.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
But that's not any of my business. That's totally fine.
And I think that when we think that in order
to have good, healthy relationships, there are boxes we need
to tick which we're constantly being told, like your partner
should be doing this, this, this, this, this, this, I
feel like that's when things get really toxic. Like I
was listening to these experts recently talk about the psychology
(21:03):
of romance, and they were talking about how every relationship
has its own culture. That was the word they used.
You have your own culture, and in that culture, you
almost have a shared language, you have shared rituals, You
have just this pattern and this dynamic that only makes
sense to you if you made that sound or that
voice in the company of anyone else. They would not
find it endearing or cute. It's like the history that's shared. Yeah,
(21:25):
and you know that things go wrong when the culture
when that thing you always do that makes them laugh
doesn't make them laugh anymore, and you go ooh, there's
something off in our culture. But you don't need to
compare if you feel like, oh, see, our friend's gone
play tennis every weekend and we have never really played tennis,
and maybe that's how a relationship should be. Like that's
(21:46):
where I think things start to get really complicated. And
with the princess treatment, it's like, I just don't want
any stranger on the internet telling me what my relationship
should look like. I don't want any of that. I'm
absolutely fine. If you want to be treated like a
princess and that's part of your culture, all power to you.
I actually think there's no problem with that. If you
(22:08):
don't want to talk to waits to. I mean it's
a little bit rude, but absolutely. And he does this
and he pays for things, and you like diamonds fabulous.
But this thing about everyone being an expert, I'm just like, oh,
we're all negotiating our own relationships privately, Like I don't
think it's anything we can ever properly perform.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
After the break, our US correspondent Emelia is going to
tell us what the hell the Big Beautiful Bill is
and what it's going to mean for us out loud as.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
If you want to listen to us every day of
the week, you can get access to exclusive segments on
Tuesdays and Thursdays by becoming a Mum and mea subscriber.
Follow the link in the show notes to subscribe and
support us, and a big thank you to all our
current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Last week, the United States has of representatives past Donald
Trump's tax cut and spending package, which he has called
the One Big Beautiful Bill. Now, we've talked about the
BBB before here on out Loud.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
To be mixed up with a BBL. Oh, that's a
different thing.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Different.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, and just consult your doctor if you want a
Brazilian buck lift. But this is bad in a whole
new deal.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's been different. Yes, when it actually passed, I feel
like that's when me and my friends started really talking
about it. None of us really understood what it meant,
and I didn't want to do a disservice to the
out loudest, so we bought in my direct competitor, Amelia
Lester here in the Studo today.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
This is so humble of you, and thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Very uncharacteristic.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
It's very different than me as well, Amelia. What does
this mean?
Speaker 6 (23:43):
So people are calling this the worst thing the US
government has ever done, so I think it's worth unpacking
a little bit, and I divided it up into winners
and losers.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Okay, great, if you'll indulge me.
Speaker 6 (23:54):
Winners rich people the extension of huse huge tax cuts
are the very richest Americans, so they will be loving it.
Ice are big winners here, I says. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement,
the people who round up immigrants and typically are wearing
face masks and then push them into unmarked mans and
take them away to El Salvador. They're getting two hundred
billion Australian dollars. To put it in perspectives, this blew
(24:17):
my mind. That is more than the total budget of
the Israeli military just for this one, sort of like
secondary police force. People who like gold they are celebrating
today because thirty eight billion dollars has been given to
Trump's Golden Dome idea, which is modeled on Israel's Iron.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Dome like a missile shield.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
Problem is that's actually estimated to cost about eight hundred
billion to build, and also experts say it's a nonsensical idea.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Losers. Is that like the wall, remember the walls?
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Like the wall. Yeah, he's given some money for that too.
Don't worry, losers, students, big increase in the cost of
university student loan debt is set to skyrocket. Young people
generally are a little concerned because it's adding five trillion
Australian dollars to the national debt, and that's going to
fall on younger Americans. People who believe in climate change
are losing out today, Trump says calls very beautiful and
(25:10):
when farms are ugly as hell. This is very much
a death sentence for wind and solar and also perhaps
for electric vehicles in the US as well. So Elon's
not pleased about that, Elon Musk. Trump wants people to
use oil and gas. Princeton researchers say that this bill
is going to increase US greenhouse emissions by more than
Australia's total emissions year on year. Oh my god, and
(25:31):
poor people. Three million Americans will lose access to food stamps,
which they used to buy groceries. Twelve million will lose
access to healthcare through a government program that provides it
to the poorest Americans.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Any questions, And is there even one tiny thing that's
good about this? Because this bill is like every single
bad thing you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
It's done.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Yeah. Look, he has thrown some bones to poorer people,
so people who earn tips don't have to pay tax
on them. I guess that's good, even though economists say
that doesn't make sense. But you are first, no, not really.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
My understanding is that this was like a nine hundred
and eighty page piece of legislation. Is common to shove
a whole lot of disparate pieces of legislation into one
and then hustle it through.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Yes, that's become increasingly common for both parties. It's because
Congress is so dysfunctional that the only way you can
pass things is by calling it a budget bill, even
when it encompasses lots of other stuff. So that is
actually a bipartisan trend in recent years.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
And this is the equivalent of their budget.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yes, And how about the Republicans? Did they all vote
for this? Did they say, all of them except two,
and one of those two didn't vote for it because
he didn't think the cuts to food stamps and health
care went far enough.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Okay, and the Democrats are I imagine, stumping their faith.
Speaker 6 (26:47):
Yeah, every Democrat voted against it, and they did sort
of all these silly things like talk.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
For nine hours to try and delay the vote on
stuff like that.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
But ultimately jd Vance is the tiebreaker vote in the Senate,
so he sort of swept in and made sure that
it happened.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Oh that's horrific.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Can I be very selfish and ask a question about
will this bill impact Australia?
Speaker 6 (27:08):
I think it will have two. This kind of spending
has never been seen before in the US. They're basically
putting the entire country on a credit card. What that
means is there's likely to be an increase in interest rates,
and when interest rates and economic volatility increase in the US,
we inevitably see that happen in Australia. Did that answer
your question?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It did. I'm very depressed. I'm sad, but it did
answer my question.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
How loud as you may have noticed that we've stopped
saying what women are talking about as a descriptor at
the start of the show, and there's a good reason
for it, and here it is. I think when we
first came up with that line, there was much more
of a monoculture women and I'm using air quotes there.
Women were generally talking about the same broad cultural and
(27:53):
news stories ten years ago. But now things have changed
so much, and it's all mostly down to the way
algorithms and social have really sent us down these highly specific,
individualized rabbit holes, and the monoculture's sort of been flattened
by these very specific subcultures. So you might think everyone's
(28:17):
talking about a specific thing, when in fact you're just
in a rabbit hole or on a particular algorithm. And
the more content you consume about that particular thing, anything
from Trump to the bezos wedding, the more of it
you'll be served, So it ends up perpetuating itself. And
the other thing that's happened is the way the algorithm
has really flattened that distinction between what's important and what's
(28:41):
not important, And it's often what's not important that gets
the most traction, maybe because it's a distraction, I don't know,
but TikTok is particularly rife with microdramas, very low stakes
arguments between either professional content creators having drama or just
random people who decide that they need to share something
(29:02):
that's going on in their life. And I just wanted
to do a quick round the grounds of some of
the microdramas we act accidentally learned about while scrolling over
the weekend. Jesse Am hit me up.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Okay, so mine has been There's a beautiful bridle store
in Sydney and you already had your wedding there. I know,
but my algorithm is like, hey, you were married, it's
time for your second wedding, all right, do you need
another dress? Basically, this bride comes out and says that
she paid fifteen thousand dollars for a wedding gown, which
is a lot, but anyway, no judgment, and it isn't
(29:35):
the right fit. And she says that this bridal store
has done nothing to help her. She's like, I've paid
all of this money. Now I need to do four
thousand dollars in alterations, and I keep emailing to get
help from them because they've stuffed up. This is their
issue and they're not replying, and she's really angry.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
So I'm going to stop you there. That sounds like
customer service and a feedback form.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Okay, well, then what happened is that the bridal store
came out and they said, excuse me, we are being
absolutely defamed over here, and we will have you know
that the time between her getting her measurements and us
delivering the dress she ordered, she lost a significant amount
of weight and that's why it didn't fit. And I
got to the end of.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That and I was like, like, did something happen?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Now they're meeting in person? I think today. I think
they're sitting down for a meeting today, and I kind
of know where the story is so I could go
and hang out there. But I didn't need to know
any of that. In fact, that was an email chain
that I was compied into. Yes that I don't need.
I have no say. I've been c seed on an
email chain that is none of my business. Go sort
(30:32):
it out. Why am I being brought into this? M
What drama have you been consuming?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay, so Fourth of July recently happened on the fourth
of July in the US.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was just last week, the fourth
of ve Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
There was this woman who came up on my TikTok
feed balling her eyes out. She's sitting in the car,
balling her eyes out, and it was story.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Time gets me every time?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
What happened to you everytime? So she was saying, how
it was Fourth of July and she's new to the
area and she's a single mom with kids, and she
was invited by one of her kids parents to a party,
a Fourth of July party, which is a huge, huge
deal in America. You don't want to spend Fourth of
July alone. So she went to this party. She bought
a salad that she said cost her forty dollars to make.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Why do I know how much? This frandom moment and.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
She also put a photo in it and looked really good.
It was like an antipesto situation.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Okay, okay, that's important.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Sally expends and stuff. And she says she got there
and then she was like introducing herself to everyone, but
everyone seemed very cold. And then suddenly like the woman
who owns the house came in and was like, why
are you here, Like you went invited. She felt very like,
oh my god, I thought I was invited, Like why
is everyone being so mean? To me and then like
have a great drive back, like really sarcastically, and she
(31:46):
was so so upset she had to bring her kids
back in her car. Her friend who invited her apologized
and she drove back and she said she ruined her
son's Fourth of July and that story like lived with
me for the whole weekend. I was so upset. I
was like, this poor woman. I wonder what she's going
to do. Now, what's it going to be like at school?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Don't see see me, don't see see me. I've got
There are two that I had on the weekend. One
is an influencer called Sarah's Day Gore is Elijah. Yeah,
yeah you on this she was happened to do a
fragrance collaboration with a female founded fragrance brand called who
Is Elijah?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Who Is Elijah?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think I might have some of those. They're not
doing it anymore, but we don't know why. And so
there's a statement from all statements everyone's been making statements,
don't see me, Like sometimes business things don't work out.
I didn't need to know that. I want to be
removed from this nighted. The other one is a content
(32:44):
creator who I don't know accused another content creator who
I also don't know, of copying her content, which I've
never seen before. But then, of course, now I've gone
and seen both of their content, and do you think inside?
I don't care. I want to be just. I wanted
to remove Mia has left the chat, except the chat
is the Internet. And then a third content creator then
(33:07):
came and weighed in on her opinion, and I also
was dissed by this, for I can't.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
What's happening here is that content needs a hero and
a villain, right, we need to be rooting for someone,
and I think that's why that content is so addictive.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But none of this is any of my business. Why
is everything and maybe this is ironic because we're in
a podcast, but why is everything performed for an audience?
Speaker 6 (33:35):
Well?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think that there's a few things right. I'm thinking
about the fourth of July woman. I'm thinking about the
Brighter Woman. You have two choices in those situations. You
could confront the person that you're having the issue with
directly and have it out privately, or you could find
that confrontation too much and you could go and privately
in your living room, quietly, with no two eyes in
(33:56):
front of you and no one to maybe challenge your
version of events, yell at the internet. And I know
which one's easier, the yelling at the internet, right. And
it's the equivalent of Jesse going to dinner, which I
did last night, and telling a story about Luca where
Luca has no right of reply. And I can tell
you in that story there is a hero and a villain. Yeah,
(34:17):
And what I don't need is anyone to cross examine
Luca on the witness stand that.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
He doesn't need to make a real in response.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
He doesn't need, he does not need to get to
tell my narrative. I get a lot of people to
applaud me and go, Jesse, you are so right, and
I go, yes, I know I am so right, and
then I move on with my life. It's the equivalent
of the dinner table, where you just need people to
kind of give you that positive reinforcement I think.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
And main character energy.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
But then don't she run the risk? Like I think
about my fourth of July person, And doesn't she run
the risk? Because now she's gone so viral, like she's
everywhere and I have notifications turned on for her because
I am waiting for a response from someone at the
actual party.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Because I think her story is not true. I mean,
I had some questions about what occurred because I think
she walked in and she did something unusual, because you
look at it and you go Doctor Phil used to
have a line where it was like, if it doesn't
make sense, come on, there's got to be one of us.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You need all the povs.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, I need all of the point of view.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
But maybe this is just I guess, but it works
for you.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Men know those stories, so like you were in it.
You're invested at a point.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
But I don't care. I'm not saying I'm so clever
and I'm just, you know, such an intellectual that I'm
not interested in microdramas. I am, but it's quite hard
to hold them all in your head when you're following,
like it's almost like a passive thing where and then
you're suddenly in it.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yes, it's a new and beautiful I reckon. It's how
we are consuming. We've always needed this, We've always needed
like little gossipy French Revolution times the first time they
had a printing press, so they had little gossip sections
because they were like everyone Regiton needs a little bitch sometimes,
and I feel as though that's now moved to TikTok,
(36:02):
where it's I love something that's low steaks, no one dies,
there's no massive accusations at play. And in the defense
of some like who among us has not had a
moment where we have felt hard done by and thought
I'd love to go and spray them on the dae.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, But the difference in all seriousness, and I also
understand that very human desire to when you feel wronged,
you want to go.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
It's your only power, but you want to.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Find someone who will go that's fucked what happened to you. However,
when you do it online, there are real world consequences
for those other people that you're talking about, whether it's
a brand, whether it's an individual, and they didn't necessarily
want to be brought into this narrative either. So the
decision to then create content about a private situation, whether
it's a transaction or a business transaction, or a social transaction,
(36:51):
or a breakup or something that's gone wrong, you're then
opening that person up to huge real works.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
But I suppose that's the democratization of the phone, right is,
because it's the one thing that we all have. And
I remember having a situation with an airline right this
was overseas and an airline that screwed me over so much,
and I was like, I just want to post because
I know that if I post, I didn't but if
I did, then they'd have to respond. And they are
treating me like a bug on the bottom of their shoe,
(37:20):
like they don't care about me. It was like, this
terrible customer service. What power do you have other than
spraying them on the internet. So I think that that's
where we all find ourselves. A big thank you to
all of you, the out louders for listening to today's
show and our fabulous team for putting this show together,
and out Louders, if you liked Amelia's very helpful explanation
all as today, then we have trapped in the studio
(37:44):
and we've gone. There are a few other terms we
would like you to explain to us. There is so
much happening in the US, from Alligator Alcatraz to the
bill that everyone's talking about, to what the hell is
going on with Elon that we wanted explained. It is
such a fascinating episode that is going live tomorrow, so
keep an eye out for that. For all our subscribers,
we will be back in your ears tomorrow. Bye bye bye,
(38:08):
shout out to any he Mum and me are subscribers listening.
If you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so. There's a link in the episode description
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.