February 3, 2025 • 36 mins
The inexcusable harassment of a famous Australian woman, or a justified public intervention? The tabloid shaming of Kate Ritchie and her words to the trolls.
Plus, has your labia gone? Can we chat about it? A spicy weekend column wants menopausal women to stop banging on about their bodies. Sure, thanks. We've got some feedback.
And, Princess Catherine’s epic, inspirational act of micro-pettiness. We're here for it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on labia majora.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
So majora is the outside, Monora is inside. And you're
telling me that I'm gonna lose anything.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
When you say outside, do you mean lips or do
you mean outside flaps and inside flaps?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I mean outside flaps majora, inside flaps and manora cor.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And then plus lips are a different thing. What are
they called?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
What?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I don't know?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You have three sets? No, you have to go to
the doctr Of.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Course Mia has more than I'm at top of the labia.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You're not meant to have three la You're only meant
to have two anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what
women are actually talking about on Monday, the third of February.
I am hollywaen right, I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Mea Friedman and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And on the show today, the inexcusable harassment of a
famous Australian woman or a justified public invention, the tabloid
shaming of Kate Ritchie. Also Where's your Labiagonne? And other
things menopausal women should shut the hell up about, according
to a viral column in this weekend's Papers, and Princess
Catherine's epic act of micro pettiness. But first, Miya has
(01:26):
an urgent update for us from the Grammy's Red Carpet look.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I actually think it's incredibly sad and disturbing, which are
not usually words that you would associate with a red
carpet at a major awards show. But in case you
have missed it, Bianker Sensori, who is an Australian architect
and model. She's thirty years old and is married to
Kanye West. They met when she was head of architecture
(01:49):
at Yeasy and I don't think we've spoken about it
much on the show, but increasingly over the time they've
been together, he parades her essentially like a naked trophy
in public, where he is sometimes wearing a mask, sometimes
he's fully covered, and she's always almost naked or naked.
They've appeared on The Grammy's Red Carpet and she is
(02:09):
actually naked. She's wearing this tiny, sheer little thing but
with nothing on it. You can see full badge, full
bumful boobs.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
We'll post a picture on the Mummy or out loud
Instagram so that you can see what we're talking about.
But when you say she's full, like, do you think
she's got something kind of see through over the she.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Does, so it's like, imagine something completely clear, just you
can see full vadge.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh can you keep she doesn't have pews.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
This is the only picture you're going to see from
the Grammy's Red Carpets. Stay. We talk a lot about
the attention economy. That is what's going on here is
They're like, look, there's a naked lady on the red carpet,
and I was really upset about it, and then I
remembered I've already seen her naked so many times. I
think I know what she had for breakfast.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, it's pretty what's Kanye West wearing next her?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
He's wearing a black T shirt, black pants, he always
wears that, and sunglasses. They both look pretty miserable. He
always looks very pouty. His mental health has been said
to be questionable, but a lot of things about him
are very questionable, and a lot of people have mental
health issues and don't behave like Kanye waste.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
You think there's a dress code like an airport lounge.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, there's been a lot of naked red carpets over
the years. This makes them look quaint, do you remember,
I think it was Rose McGowan once it turned up
in just a few tassels and a beaded g stream that.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Our line was nipples.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So there are reports that they weren't even invited to
the Grammys, which Kanye makes a habit of getting on
stage and doing things when he's not invited. Remember this
is famously where he went and harassed Taylor Swift and
got on stage and said that Beyonce should have won.
Bianco Sensori and Kanye were reportedly asked to leave after
the red carpet. Well, we know that the more nude
(03:46):
you are, the more attention you get, right because, as
Holly said, we're in an attention economy, and they're the
rules of the red carpet. But there's something very sinister
about this because she's not there by herself, She's never
photographed alone. She's always there as his dole doll.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know, there are rumors.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
That he locks up her clothes at home, doesn't let
her wear clothes. It appears to be a very coercive
and controlling relationship. Of course, we don't know because she
hasn't said anything. Maybe she really enjoys it. We probably
won't know until down the track. This is something that
he did in a slightly different way with Kim Kardashian.
She was very much mocked for her lack of style.
(04:27):
She well, like body condresses. The Kardashians didn't really have style.
And when he got together with her, he quite famously
started dressing her in, you know, designer clothes, and she
appeared to be quite complicit in that. And interestingly, since
they ended their marriage, she's continued to dress in ways
that aren't dissimilar to that. And what he did is
sort of transform her into a bit of a fashion
(04:50):
icon and someone who could then be on the cover
of Vogue. But this is very different because it's never
about the clothes, it's about her naked body. Yeah, and
you might remember when he briefly dated Julia Fox. She
said that on their date they went out to dinner
and then he took her to this he wanted to
throw away all her clothes and then he took her
to this room where there were lots of clothes to wear.
So he's clearly a very controlling person, and I just
(05:14):
I don't want to be condescending and not give her
agency or power, but I find.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It very disturbing.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Of course, there are many other looks on the red
carpet apart from this, involve actual clothes, that involve actual clothes,
And of course some people are actually going to get
awards tonight for things that they have done and songs
they have sung, rather than.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Their bodies or their clothes.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So we will be doing a full Grammys recap tomorrow
on our Tuesday episode.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The splash on the front of The Daily Mail on
Friday was of a woman sitting on the grass in
a Sydney park, apparently crying as she talks into her phone.
Her car is idling thereby. Her child is in the
passenger seat. The report that accompanies the pictures says that
not long before, she had visited a bottle shop and
went to pick up her daughter from school. All of
this is reported in detail. That's confusing unless you know
(06:02):
the context. The context is that the woman was one
of Australia's most famous and beloved actors and presenters, Kate
Ritchie and she won I was most likely being followed
by a photographer because earlier in the week she had
delayed returning to her job on breakfast Radio. Now since
that happened, the story has kept rolling. Over the weekend,
the Male had pictures of all her team visiting her
(06:24):
at her home, presumably to decide what they were going
to say and how they were going to address these images.
If ever, the Male kept reporting it. The so called
bombshell bottle shop photos, as they said, were published because
they know that Kate is a woman who has before
spoken about her issues with alcohol. Jesse, as we went
into the studio today, Kate Richie released a statement about
(06:46):
what's going on with her. What did she say?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Her statement reads, I struggle with mental health issues at
times which are deeply personal. This has proven to be
a bigger challenge than I imagined, so I've decided to take
a break from the show and the team who I
love to focus on my health. I want to thank
all of those who are helping me through this very
difficult time. I love you. Thank you Noba for being
there when I need you. This is also a problem
(07:09):
many other are struggling with. They know what it's like.
The images of me taken last week show that I
wasn't okay on that day. My struggle is not helped
by the relentless stalking of me by the paparazzi. In fact,
they are making it much worse due to their constant harassment.
They significantly add pressure and make my recovery that much
(07:29):
more difficult to those profiting from invading my privacy. A
simple question, would you treat, say, your sister, mother, or
daughter the same if they had similar challenges? Please reconsider
and stop and think of the harm you are inflicting
and give me the space and privacy I need. Thank
you to my wonderful family, all the NOVA listeners and
(07:50):
many others who are sending their love and support. I
appreciate it more than you can imagine. Thank you, Kate.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Such a great statement, I think because the thing that's
interesting about this is the justification for running those kind
of images, And perhaps the reaction that the male we're
expecting is that it's a gotcha, like, look at this
famous woman out of control in public. She clearly hasn't
dealt with her demons. We know that Kate has been
fined in twenty twenty two for DUI. She has spoken
(08:18):
publicly about her struggles with alcohol before. There was another
incident late last year that never made it to court
or anything, but the male reported about her in a
traffic incident at a school. The thing is is that
the Internet didn't really respond with that kind of glee.
They mostly showed the kind of empathy that Kate's asking
for in that statement right.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
In fact, the statement is really telling because she is
saying the paparazzi are making it worse. And what I
found over the weekend on TikTok and then Constance Hall,
who has one point five million followers on Facebook, one
hundred percent empathy is what I saw. It was like
we were being baited to shame this woman, and our
(08:59):
instincts to shame a mother, which are often particularly strong.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, I saw some pushback, and I think it's worth
pointing out. And you know, obviously we stand our love
to Kate and to anyone who's going through this.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And I don't know anyone who.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Looked at those pictures or that video, and a lot
of people did and didn't feel a bit sick that
they were even looking at it, and then didn't feel
overwhelmingly sad and sorry for her. I think, though, there
are two things that complicate this a little bit that
some people were talking about, and that is that she
(09:39):
was driving with her child in the car, and that
she was on a public road, and we don't know
whether she was affected by substances, but as she says herself,
she was clearly distressed and not in good shape, and
she stumbled as she went to get in the car.
And some people have said, why didn't the photographers intervene?
(10:01):
Why didn't they either prevent her from getting in the car.
Why didn't they see if she was okay? Why didn't
they offer to call an uber. I don't think shaming
is ever the answer, because it was very much designed
for people to judge. I mean, that's what paparazzi shots are.
That's the business model of the Daily Mail, right. Yeah,
And interestingly, even all the Daily Mail comments will surprisingly lovely.
(10:22):
But what do we do with that the fact that
as a society we want people to get help, We
absolutely do, but we also don't want them on our roads,
but also driving children.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What did they do to stop?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah? Exactly. The whole world doesn't need to know about that,
do you know what? I mean? They could have if
we're concerned about road safety, that's one issue, and maybe
stop the woman from getting in the car, or call
the police or whatever. Does the nation yet to know,
like does that worldwide humiliation help? Is it going to
push anybody direct?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Has been argued by some people, probably media organizations that
ran this is that by surfacing those photos, an intervention
clearly happens. This is I'm not saying that I agree
with this, but that they were doing a public service
by bringing this to a head.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Any evidence would tell you that this is not the
way to go about it by media. No, but this
is well, that's this is a lesson that we have
learned a hundred times. And we've talked about the intense
issues with the Internet and all its flaws. But to me,
this was a moment where the Internet showed its power,
(11:32):
which is that they were calling bullshit on this blatant
cruelty and that we have seen Amy Winehouse, we have
seen justin Bieber, we have seen Britney Spears. All of
these people go down a certain road, and we have
evolved in terms of our understanding of addiction. So shame
and addiction are like magnets, and shame is one of
(11:57):
the biggest hurdles to recovery. And that's what Kate talked
about in that statement, was that you do not shame
someone out of illness, you don't shame someone out of.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Addiction, but sometimes you need to shame the people around
them to take action to protect that person and to
protect vulnerable people in their care.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But I think that's disingenuous. Not from Eumia, but that
argument is I think, no, I know, I know you're not,
but I think it's a disingenuous argument because it presumes
a lot of things. It presumes that there wasn't already
a lot of steps in place for Kate to deal
with what she's clearly dealing with. That that is why
she wasn't at work in the first place, that she
doesn't have people around her who are helping her. It
(12:38):
presumes that, oh, well, the paparazzi stepped in and held
up a mirror and Kate, Richie or and you know,
you mentioned some other celebrity names there, Jesse, But there's
much closer to home than that. I interviewed Julie Goodwin
for mid This exact thing happened to her. She was
struggling with an alcohol problem and she was busted for dui,
(12:58):
and it was one of the many points along the
road that definitely pushed her to get.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Help, but not child in the car.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
But the public nature of it was not, in fact
that pushed her down a much much darker mental health
road that saw her suicidal. It's not that an addict
or somebody struggling with mental health won't go that moment
when I got in the car with my kid. That's
not what happened with Julie Goodwin, and we don't know
that's what happened here, but you know, in an addict's journey,
that moment where I put myself in that danger and
(13:29):
other people in danger was definitely one of the pivotal points,
that moment where I had that fight with that person,
that moment where I spent all my money, all those things,
But the public shaming that he.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Actually was so different to Kate Richie than it was
to say mis Shelle bridges.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
A lot of public goodwill towards Kate Richie. I think
people really love her.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
We've known her all like all her life, pretty much
since she was for her.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, and I do think that we have changed how
we look at these stories. I've even noticed and this
isn't about celebrity. But if you are walking down the
street and someone is behaving in a way, maybe they're yelling,
maybe they're having an episode, maybe they're having a moment.
Ten years ago, I would see people pull their phones
out and there was this instinct to just film. Right recently,
(14:14):
I was walking down the street and that moment happened,
and I saw someone do it, and I saw someone
else say put it away. I reckon that we have
this broader public understanding that that is not how we
behave that there is something morally degenerate, disgusting and virtuous
about that kind of behavior, and it's undignified. It's not
giving dignity to the person that you're filming. So if
(14:36):
I saw someone getting in the car and they were intoxicated,
I might called police. I might, but I wouldn't get
my phone out because that's not how.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
That's not your that's not your business model. Kate, If
you are listening and to anyone who is struggling at
the moment, we send love and we're rooting for you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, we
will pop some resources and links in the show notes.
Have you checked on your labbier lately because it might
(15:09):
not be there anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yes, this.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Is CSI labia.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Apparently, the disappearing labbier is a menopausal symptom that affects
up to eighty five percent of women.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But hardly anyone's talking about it. Maybe we didn't notice.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, wait, the same you can hear is everyone putting
their hand in their path?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
May have you checked your labby recently?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Well, hang on.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Your hands.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
We are in a public space.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Well it's still there, I think, Holly, have you checked
your But the other thing.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Is, you know there's two types.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
There's the manora and the minordia majora MAJORA. I don't
even know the name. Okay, have you heard the catchy
little song?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Have A listened to?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
This?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Side labia majora?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So majora is the outside? Manora is inside, and you're
telling me that I'm gonna lose.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
When you say outside, do you mean lips or do
you mean outside flaps and inside flaps?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I mean outside flaps and majora inside flaps of manora? Right?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And then plus lips are a different thing. What are
they called? What? I don't know?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You have three sets? No, you have to go to
the doc bar of.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Course mia has more.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I'm at top of the lab.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
You're not meant to have three la You're only meant
to have two.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Anyway during menopause.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Apparently, did you grow an extra pair?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I could have.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Dropping estrogen levels. Unlikely because too much estrogen.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
That is, so you take anyone else have eight labia?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
No, But apparently both the inner and the outer lips
of the vulver can literally shrink and in some cases
completely disappear, and it can start as early as your
thirties or your forties, just keeps coming. The medical term
is vaginal atrophy and it comes with some not so
fun effects like dryna's itching and painful sex. But here's
the thing, apparently you don't have to just cop it.
(17:05):
There are treatments available are from over the counter moisturizers
to prescription istrogen cree.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Because gen X women stood up and they said, not
our lips. You can take everything, but not our minora.
When it comes to Perry menopause and menopause, there's one
woman who would like you all to say less. And
that woman is not me. Despite speaking about your lobbyers,
before I'd even had my coffee on a Monday morning,
(17:33):
I welcome the chats as I'm a lovely person.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
As it's also coming for you, my friend.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yes, I'm not for a long time.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Hold onto your lobby disappear. We could start your thirties listening.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I stumbled across this article in The Australian over the
weekend by Sasha Callahan about how we are treating menopause
like an enemy to be defeated. But at what point
do we just accept we're getting old and give.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Up the fight?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Callahan says, all women are talking about is this bloody
menopause thing. You can't even open a bottle of rose
without someone talking about their drivers.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
She argues, she's been to dinner with me and.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Every ailment from anxiety to tiredness, to your skin changing
to irritability is blamed on menopause. There's no more coming
to terms with that. Apparently we instead have to, and
this is a quote, put ourselves through a biochemical process
of rejuvenation in the hope that we can hold off
to kline and death.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Is she talking about medication? Is she talking? Is hrt?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Also? How old is she?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I would like to know that information, but I didn't
look it up because we play the ball, not the.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Person need to up my hit because I want to
swell her in.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
She says that Perry has become a case of self
I D rather than anything recognizably medical. You say, you reckon,
you're experiencing Perry, and the hormones will be described, and
all this awareness raising is probably very welcomed by the
manufacturers of HRT. You too seem irritable. Is it time
you just accepted menopause and got on with.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It down and accepted position?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Because we're not fight It's not about fighting it right.
She says that you know, you can't open a bottle
of rose without someone talking about the driver vagina. I
know lots of menopausal women who also feel a bit
icky about that, about how intimate were expected to go.
Now everybody like, what's going on with your vagina? What's
going If that's not your thing, it doesn't have to
be your thing. But the great thing about all this
(19:30):
yapping that gen X has been doing is that for
a long time, more than a third of women have
had quite debilitating symptoms with all kinds of issues that
related to their hormones, Perry and menopause, and we.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Didn't even realize they were related to our hormone. We
didn't just would have vagina was for.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
We thought we were losing it, we thought we were
going crazy. We were branded as angry and all the
things that Sasha thinks we should embrace, and medical research
wasn't being done and nobody was doing anything about it.
Whereas it's funny, how often when men, as they get older,
things start to droop. Perhaps there's a little pill for
that like this.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Do you think that sometimes, playing Devil's advocate, we can
flate real symptoms like in som now, brain fog, anxiety,
what happens to your bones, like real stuff, all kinds
of stuff with the more superficial that maybe that's what
some people are going. It's one thing to want to
be able to sleep, but you know, thinking that buying
(20:27):
a cream or something is going to wind back the
clock is you know, ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Well it might in you downstairs, but I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I think that there's a difference between saying I don't
want to look like I'm getting older, which happens also,
funnily enough, during perry and menopause, and as you say,
those superficial signs, but every single symptom that my HRT
treats and every single symptom that women talk about, whether
you choose to take hit or not, there are other
(20:57):
ways to treat it, and even just knowing what causes something.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Arguing too, does it need to be treated, well.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It only needs to be treated inverted commas if it's
negatively affecting your life. Right, And there's no argument that
there is a bit of a gold rush going on,
like drink this tea, rub this cream on, take these
supplements like this candle. There is no question that that's
all happening out there. That's definitely real. Because GEDEX women
have started talking about something, as we said, that hadn't
been being talked about before. We've been talking about it
(21:26):
for apparently thirty seconds, and that we're all being told
to shush. You don't need to treat things unless they're
really impacting your life. But as Mia said before, a
lot of it really does impact a lot of women's
lives for a period of time. And not being able
to ask your doctor without being dismissed as being hysterical,
surely that is just an information exchange. Right.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Women have been accepting everything that happens to their bodies
naturally for tens of thousands of years. And this reminded
me a little bit of the conversation we have about childbirth,
that it's like, yeah, it's this natural thing, and like, yeah,
women have been doing it forever. Why are you trying
to resist this natural process? And the thing about doing
anything naturally is that inherent within nature is there's a
(22:10):
lot of violence and a lot of pain, suffering and
suffering and potentially death and like really scary stuff. And
so if you want menopause to happen naturally without these interventions,
what we've seen is women leaving the workforce prematurely, having
brain fogs so badly that you can't form a coherent thought.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, I think that the two things for me, the
two sides of it. There's the shame which I think
all of this talk about dry vaginas and everything, even
though you might roll your eyes, it's all about bringing
something out of the shamehole that's been a fantastic thing
when it's happened to mental health, when it's happened to miscarriage.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It also prepares domestic charag surprise.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And also they might actually be pleasantly surprised, because not
everybody does get all that stuff, so you might be like, oh, look,
that didn't happen to me.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, And then there's the suffering part, which is there's
twenty five percent of women will have no symptoms, good
for them, awesome, twenty five percent of women will have
incredibly debilitating symptoms that will really imp on their life,
and the rest of us will probably be somewhere in
the middle, which is where i'd say I fall. And
it's very subjective whether you choose to do something about
(23:19):
it or not, buy cream, take hormones, whatever. But information
is power. We know that, and I think that a
lot of this has also been about retraining doctors because
the level of misinformation and buck up little camper vibes
from the medical profession for a really long time has
(23:41):
really damaged women.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So I think it's all good.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
On the nineteenth of January this year, the suburb of
Dural police were contacted and subsequently recovered a caravan on
a residential property rural property. That caravan contained an amount
of explosives and some indication that those explosives might be
used in some form of anti Semitic attack.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
That was a New South Wales Deputy Police Commissioner David Hudson.
Australia's current national terrorism threat level remains probable after a
number of hate fueled attacks against the Jewish community, including,
as Hudson referred to their the discovery of a caravan
in Jural, a suburb of Sydney packed with explosives. Despite
(24:27):
New South Wales's Premier Chris Min's being briefed about the
caravan the following day on January twenty, the information was
purposely not passed on to Prime Minister Anthony Aarbernezi Minns
says that's because it was a strictly confidential investigation. Very
few people were aware of it and very few people
needed to know about it. He said, I take that
(24:48):
responsibility very seriously. The information about the caravan was leaked
by the Daily Telegraph and since debates have surfaced about
who should have known and when I kept thinking reading
these I trust the police, I trust the state government,
and if informing the public or the PM would risk
an investigation, then I totally understand not release this information
(25:10):
to the public. Mia. These threats are specifically aimed at
the Jewish community, a community that you belong to. Do
you think the public has a right to know when
something happens like that.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I hate to sit on the fence of two things
can be true. But I understand the reasoning, the well
intentioned reasoning, of not informing the Jewish community, or in
fact the wider community about this so they could try
and solve the crime and catch the perpetrators. However, and
I don't speak for the Jewish community at all, I
just speak for myself. I would have liked to know,
(25:49):
because I think when you are part of a group
of people that are being targeted and targeted every day
in terrifying ways. You know, in the streets and suburbs
near where I live, synagogues and cars and houses and
daycare centers and schools are being firebombed and vandalised every day,
(26:11):
and there are helicopters flying low twenty four to seven.
The threat is real, and the threat has increased now.
The Jewish community, everyone I have spoken to, is feeling
incredibly distressed, incredibly unsafe. And I think, again we talk
about information is power. You might make different decisions if
you knew that the threat was not I can't believe
(26:33):
I'm saying just about cars being set on fire and
daycare centers being set on fire but about mass casualty
events and people talking about blowing up a synagogue that
I have attended, the Jewish Museum, which I have also
attended just in the last few weeks, which my children attend,
people would make different choices. They might make different choices. Now,
(26:56):
synagogues were packed on Friday because everybody wanted to go
and show their support. I went to synagogue. Did I
take my granddaughter?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
No? I didn't because I knew. So you make risk assess.
Some people chose not to send their children to Jewish
schools or Jewish daycares or changed enrollments. A lot of
us where Mugga David Star of David necklaces, particularly at
the moment around our next at universities in public, we
might choose to hide those. And I can't believe I'm
(27:25):
even saying this, but I think everybody's doing their best
at a time that is shocking. And I'm not going
to backseat drive and criticize what the police are doing
at all, but I just think it's worth putting forward
that perspective as well.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
After the break, We've got an inspirational act of micro
pettiness to share.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
With you unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every
Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
You may have seen that our conversation on last week's
show where we're identified a phenomenon called micro pettiness where
people do tiny, often i perceptibly petty things as a
way to make themselves feel better.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
We were viral, didn't We turns out that out louders
very bad. I'm self identified as the most petty of
any podcast community, and they're like, oh, I have some examples.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Our big boss Ruth came up with this. It's a
totally original syndrome phenomenon micropenniness, and we're leaning in. I
think that one of the people who clearly saw that
video and said hold my beer is Princess Kate Middleton because.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
She zone for being micro petty.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Well, no, she's not.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
You would think she would definitely rise above that. However,
Kensington Palace has announced that she will no longer share
details of her outfits with the public when she goes
to a public occasion. Now this isn't entirely new, but
they have announced it. They tested this out when she
visited Wales recently, and the reason being they say it's
(29:08):
not about micropetty at all.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
They say they want to shift focus from her fashion
to her actual work.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I think Kate has come back from her year off
of being treated for cancer with big knop energy. That's
what I think, yea, even though this seems like a
tiny thing. So what they mean is usually say Kate
goes and opens a bridge or goes to a childcare
center or whatever she does. Obviously, press releases come out.
They tell you where she was, They tell you who
(29:37):
she met, who she shook hands with, what the main
points were, and they tell you what she was wearing.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I didn't realize. They tell you that the.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Media want to know, right, they always want to know,
no matter what, and they got the facts in front
of them. The media will still want to know, and
we'll go and find out. We could all do a
reverse Google image search in a hot minute for the
latest pair of nude pumps.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
It's not ideal because now it won't be confirmed. Now
it might be that it might not be that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
But what she's doing is She's saying, I am no
longer being complicit in your obsession with.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
My clothes over I'm not going to make you job.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Easier for not known for being rebellious. But this is
basically Jesse every time Maya puts her phone to her
for a fit check, and Jesse gets her back up
and shrugs and goes, I don't know what I'm wearing.
I don't care. That's what Kate's doing.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's about what I'm saying. She's what I'm wearing.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Kate's going like, I'm doing my job. I'm wearing clothes.
I know you're taking my picture. Do you want me
to talk about my clothes. I'm not going to talk
about my clothes. Let's talk about early childhood interventions. Let's
talk about that. And everyone goes, no, we want to
talk about your hat.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
She's like, no, I mean one, what Kate's been through,
I'm sure has impacted this decision, but as well the
climate in the UK at the moment, in terms of
cost of living, in terms of really serious political issues
that are being discussed, and the lives like friends that
I know in London, things really hard at the moment.
Does it feel a bit on the nose to have
(30:55):
you know, Kate saying this is from Zara.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
No, I think that would and the thing is that
about her unlike Megan.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
It's interesting.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
It's a real passag thing that the media often does
with women that don't do it with Kate. They only
do it with women that are more polarizing. So, for example,
they'll do it to Zoe Foster Blake. They did it
for a while where paparazzi would follow her around and
then they would say, you know, her outfit is worth
X amount of dime. I was thinking that they would
go and price it all. They do it to Megan Marklek, right,
(31:26):
but they don't usually do it to Kate. And Kate
also doesn't wear very high end things. And there's also
an understanding like the queen, you know that she's not
a fashion plate. But you know who this is bad
for is the fashion industry. I mean, it's not that
bad because, as Holly said, it's not like that information
won't they can cut their hand up they say that's
our skirt. They can you know, then allowed to take
(31:47):
freebies the rules. This is one of the things that
Megan hated. She's like, why can't I get free clothes.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And that's why what you'll often get as a journalist
is you'll get an email from the fashion label saying,
Kate Middleton wore my skirt. Here's a picture of Kate
Midleton wearing my skirt. But they didn't send that skirt Kate.
Because Kate can't get freebies, she has to pay for
her clothes. It's one of the royal rules. And she
also often gets a lot of crap for repeating it.
Outfits right maya.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yes, And I actually think that she uses this very strategically.
Someone else who does this very well is Cate Blanchette,
where they will, you know, their publicist will confirm that, yes,
this is the same dress that Kate wore to the
opening of The Something of the Something in twenty twenty three,
and she's had it altered or she's just wearing it again.
And people really like that, and the media really like
(32:32):
that too, because it means that they can show the
two dresses side by side and look at it then
and look at it now. But there's an instagrammer and
journalist called Elizabeth Holmes. She's right for the Wall Street Journal.
She's now sort of made a specialty. She's not that
Elizabeth Holmes writing about royals, and she's got a brand
or Instagram page called so Many Thoughts, and she has
taken a very journalistic approach to analyzing the wardrobes of
(32:55):
royal women, everyone from the Queen to Diana to now
Princess Kate and Megan Mirkale. And her point is, or
her philosophy is that because royal women can't speak, they
really don't have a voice, right, as Megan Michael also
complained about understandably, and they signify a lot, They say
a lot through the clothes that they wear. That's one
(33:16):
of their primary forms of communication. So I think it's
very micro petty, and I don't say that as a criticism.
I think the principle of it is awesome.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I agree. I wonder if this had something to do
with what happened in November. So in November she made
an appearance at the Remembrance Day event, and her appearance
was so scrutinized. We talked about it on the show.
People made awful comments about aging and close ups of
her face and all that kind of stuff. And I've
(33:48):
got this image in my head of Kate going home
stumping her feet and being like, why can't I just
go to work like everyone else? Why can't I just
go to work and do my job and not have
it be about my appearance being dissected in some sort
of public sport.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I think you spot on there, Jesse, because that's what
you signed up for. Unfortunately that's the job.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
But the tricky part have to be. But Kate is
at a turning point because she's getting to her forties,
because she is no longer a hot young thing in
inverted commas, the scrutiny on her is going to shift.
So it's always been about her weight and her hair
and whatever, but now it's going to be about how
she's aging, because welcome to being a grown up woman.
It'll be like, let's count the wrinkles, let's decide whether
(34:28):
or not she's had any treatments, she had any surgery,
hows she had burtos. That is going to be all
the discourse about her appearance, and she can't control that,
but she can control how much she participates in it.
And I feel like, to your point, Mire, You're so right,
they're not allowed to speak, so silence is kind of
her only power, right, Yeah, So she can go. I
(34:48):
know you're going to do that, and it's really going
to piss me off. This is my job to turn
up to things and you're going to see me with
your eyes and have thoughts about it. But I'm not
playing that game anymore and stomping her foot.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
As you said, do you know what you can also
tell is that she's not a woman who enjoys clothes.
They're certain great, no, no, but that does got nothing
to do with it. There's certain women who love it,
who love clothes. Meghan Markel loves clothes. I love clothes.
Doesn't mean that you two don't look great, particularly you Jesse.
Some women just don't like you genuinely. It's not fun
(35:23):
for you. It's not interesting for you. You like a nice outfit,
you like to look good, and you do look good,
but it doesn't feed you and you get no joy
from it.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Really, I don't release exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And that's why.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
And I think Kate genuinely brings her no joy and
you can just see that. So I think that that
is also part of it, is just saying this does
nothing for me. I'm not going to play the game.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
We've got time for it. Out louders, thank you so
much for being with us here on this Monday. Well,
if we're going to have a show where we can't
stop me from talking about Labia anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That woman's right. I actually am inclined to agree with her.
I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
It's my pseudonyms. That that is my pseudonym riting in
the Australian. So my boss will not stop talking about
a vaginal Dryna.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Rose, No, Rose, it's just come up.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I started to put it s Vernon.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
I wasn't even on the show and I heard her
talking about needing that bomb for her driver Jina, and
she's a child.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Okay, that's me.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I didn't start this. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
We'll be back with our Grammys round up tomorrow. We'll
see you that.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Check on your Manora.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Shout out to any Mom and Maya subscribers listening. If
you love the show and want to support us as well,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
There is a link in the episode description
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on labia majora.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
So majora is the outside, Monora is inside. And you're
telling me that I'm gonna lose anything.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
When you say outside, do you mean lips or do
you mean outside flaps and inside flaps?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I mean outside flaps majora, inside flaps and manora cor.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And then plus lips are a different thing. What are
they called?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
What?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I don't know?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You have three sets? No, you have to go to
the doctr Of.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Course Mia has more than I'm at top of the labia.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You're not meant to have three la You're only meant
to have two anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what
women are actually talking about on Monday, the third of February.
I am hollywaen right, I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Mea Friedman and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And on the show today, the inexcusable harassment of a
famous Australian woman or a justified public invention, the tabloid
shaming of Kate Ritchie. Also Where's your Labiagonne? And other
things menopausal women should shut the hell up about, according
to a viral column in this weekend's Papers, and Princess
Catherine's epic act of micro pettiness. But first, Miya has
(01:26):
an urgent update for us from the Grammy's Red Carpet look.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I actually think it's incredibly sad and disturbing, which are
not usually words that you would associate with a red
carpet at a major awards show. But in case you
have missed it, Bianker Sensori, who is an Australian architect
and model. She's thirty years old and is married to
Kanye West. They met when she was head of architecture
(01:49):
at Yeasy and I don't think we've spoken about it
much on the show, but increasingly over the time they've
been together, he parades her essentially like a naked trophy
in public, where he is sometimes wearing a mask, sometimes
he's fully covered, and she's always almost naked or naked.
They've appeared on The Grammy's Red Carpet and she is
(02:09):
actually naked. She's wearing this tiny, sheer little thing but
with nothing on it. You can see full badge, full
bumful boobs.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
We'll post a picture on the Mummy or out loud
Instagram so that you can see what we're talking about.
But when you say she's full, like, do you think
she's got something kind of see through over the she.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Does, so it's like, imagine something completely clear, just you
can see full vadge.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Oh can you keep she doesn't have pews.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
This is the only picture you're going to see from
the Grammy's Red Carpets. Stay. We talk a lot about
the attention economy. That is what's going on here is
They're like, look, there's a naked lady on the red carpet,
and I was really upset about it, and then I
remembered I've already seen her naked so many times. I
think I know what she had for breakfast.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, it's pretty what's Kanye West wearing next her?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
He's wearing a black T shirt, black pants, he always
wears that, and sunglasses. They both look pretty miserable. He
always looks very pouty. His mental health has been said
to be questionable, but a lot of things about him
are very questionable, and a lot of people have mental
health issues and don't behave like Kanye waste.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
You think there's a dress code like an airport lounge.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, there's been a lot of naked red carpets over
the years. This makes them look quaint, do you remember,
I think it was Rose McGowan once it turned up
in just a few tassels and a beaded g stream that.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Our line was nipples.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
So there are reports that they weren't even invited to
the Grammys, which Kanye makes a habit of getting on
stage and doing things when he's not invited. Remember this
is famously where he went and harassed Taylor Swift and
got on stage and said that Beyonce should have won.
Bianco Sensori and Kanye were reportedly asked to leave after
the red carpet. Well, we know that the more nude
(03:46):
you are, the more attention you get, right because, as
Holly said, we're in an attention economy, and they're the
rules of the red carpet. But there's something very sinister
about this because she's not there by herself, She's never
photographed alone. She's always there as his dole doll.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know, there are rumors.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
That he locks up her clothes at home, doesn't let
her wear clothes. It appears to be a very coercive
and controlling relationship. Of course, we don't know because she
hasn't said anything. Maybe she really enjoys it. We probably
won't know until down the track. This is something that
he did in a slightly different way with Kim Kardashian.
She was very much mocked for her lack of style.
(04:27):
She well, like body condresses. The Kardashians didn't really have style.
And when he got together with her, he quite famously
started dressing her in, you know, designer clothes, and she
appeared to be quite complicit in that. And interestingly, since
they ended their marriage, she's continued to dress in ways
that aren't dissimilar to that. And what he did is
sort of transform her into a bit of a fashion
(04:50):
icon and someone who could then be on the cover
of Vogue. But this is very different because it's never
about the clothes, it's about her naked body. Yeah, and
you might remember when he briefly dated Julia Fox. She
said that on their date they went out to dinner
and then he took her to this he wanted to
throw away all her clothes and then he took her
to this room where there were lots of clothes to wear.
So he's clearly a very controlling person, and I just
(05:14):
I don't want to be condescending and not give her
agency or power, but I find.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It very disturbing.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Of course, there are many other looks on the red
carpet apart from this, involve actual clothes, that involve actual clothes,
And of course some people are actually going to get
awards tonight for things that they have done and songs
they have sung, rather than.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Their bodies or their clothes.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So we will be doing a full Grammys recap tomorrow
on our Tuesday episode.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The splash on the front of The Daily Mail on
Friday was of a woman sitting on the grass in
a Sydney park, apparently crying as she talks into her phone.
Her car is idling thereby. Her child is in the
passenger seat. The report that accompanies the pictures says that
not long before, she had visited a bottle shop and
went to pick up her daughter from school. All of
this is reported in detail. That's confusing unless you know
(06:02):
the context. The context is that the woman was one
of Australia's most famous and beloved actors and presenters, Kate
Ritchie and she won I was most likely being followed
by a photographer because earlier in the week she had
delayed returning to her job on breakfast Radio. Now since
that happened, the story has kept rolling. Over the weekend,
the Male had pictures of all her team visiting her
(06:24):
at her home, presumably to decide what they were going
to say and how they were going to address these images.
If ever, the Male kept reporting it. The so called
bombshell bottle shop photos, as they said, were published because
they know that Kate is a woman who has before
spoken about her issues with alcohol. Jesse, as we went
into the studio today, Kate Richie released a statement about
(06:46):
what's going on with her. What did she say?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Her statement reads, I struggle with mental health issues at
times which are deeply personal. This has proven to be
a bigger challenge than I imagined, so I've decided to take
a break from the show and the team who I
love to focus on my health. I want to thank
all of those who are helping me through this very
difficult time. I love you. Thank you Noba for being
there when I need you. This is also a problem
(07:09):
many other are struggling with. They know what it's like.
The images of me taken last week show that I
wasn't okay on that day. My struggle is not helped
by the relentless stalking of me by the paparazzi. In fact,
they are making it much worse due to their constant harassment.
They significantly add pressure and make my recovery that much
(07:29):
more difficult to those profiting from invading my privacy. A
simple question, would you treat, say, your sister, mother, or
daughter the same if they had similar challenges? Please reconsider
and stop and think of the harm you are inflicting
and give me the space and privacy I need. Thank
you to my wonderful family, all the NOVA listeners and
(07:50):
many others who are sending their love and support. I
appreciate it more than you can imagine. Thank you, Kate.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Such a great statement, I think because the thing that's
interesting about this is the justification for running those kind
of images, And perhaps the reaction that the male we're
expecting is that it's a gotcha, like, look at this
famous woman out of control in public. She clearly hasn't
dealt with her demons. We know that Kate has been
fined in twenty twenty two for DUI. She has spoken
(08:18):
publicly about her struggles with alcohol before. There was another
incident late last year that never made it to court
or anything, but the male reported about her in a
traffic incident at a school. The thing is is that
the Internet didn't really respond with that kind of glee.
They mostly showed the kind of empathy that Kate's asking
for in that statement right.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
In fact, the statement is really telling because she is
saying the paparazzi are making it worse. And what I
found over the weekend on TikTok and then Constance Hall,
who has one point five million followers on Facebook, one
hundred percent empathy is what I saw. It was like
we were being baited to shame this woman, and our
(08:59):
instincts to shame a mother, which are often particularly strong.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, I saw some pushback, and I think it's worth
pointing out. And you know, obviously we stand our love
to Kate and to anyone who's going through this.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And I don't know anyone who.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Looked at those pictures or that video, and a lot
of people did and didn't feel a bit sick that
they were even looking at it, and then didn't feel
overwhelmingly sad and sorry for her. I think, though, there
are two things that complicate this a little bit that
some people were talking about, and that is that she
(09:39):
was driving with her child in the car, and that
she was on a public road, and we don't know
whether she was affected by substances, but as she says herself,
she was clearly distressed and not in good shape, and
she stumbled as she went to get in the car.
And some people have said, why didn't the photographers intervene?
(10:01):
Why didn't they either prevent her from getting in the car.
Why didn't they see if she was okay? Why didn't
they offer to call an uber. I don't think shaming
is ever the answer, because it was very much designed
for people to judge. I mean, that's what paparazzi shots are.
That's the business model of the Daily Mail, right. Yeah,
And interestingly, even all the Daily Mail comments will surprisingly lovely.
(10:22):
But what do we do with that the fact that
as a society we want people to get help, We
absolutely do, but we also don't want them on our roads,
but also driving children.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
What did they do to stop?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah? Exactly. The whole world doesn't need to know about that,
do you know what? I mean? They could have if
we're concerned about road safety, that's one issue, and maybe
stop the woman from getting in the car, or call
the police or whatever. Does the nation yet to know,
like does that worldwide humiliation help? Is it going to
push anybody direct?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Has been argued by some people, probably media organizations that
ran this is that by surfacing those photos, an intervention
clearly happens. This is I'm not saying that I agree
with this, but that they were doing a public service
by bringing this to a head.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Any evidence would tell you that this is not the
way to go about it by media. No, but this
is well, that's this is a lesson that we have
learned a hundred times. And we've talked about the intense
issues with the Internet and all its flaws. But to me,
this was a moment where the Internet showed its power,
(11:32):
which is that they were calling bullshit on this blatant
cruelty and that we have seen Amy Winehouse, we have
seen justin Bieber, we have seen Britney Spears. All of
these people go down a certain road, and we have
evolved in terms of our understanding of addiction. So shame
and addiction are like magnets, and shame is one of
(11:57):
the biggest hurdles to recovery. And that's what Kate talked
about in that statement, was that you do not shame
someone out of illness, you don't shame someone out of.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Addiction, but sometimes you need to shame the people around
them to take action to protect that person and to
protect vulnerable people in their care.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But I think that's disingenuous. Not from Eumia, but that
argument is I think, no, I know, I know you're not,
but I think it's a disingenuous argument because it presumes
a lot of things. It presumes that there wasn't already
a lot of steps in place for Kate to deal
with what she's clearly dealing with. That that is why
she wasn't at work in the first place, that she
doesn't have people around her who are helping her. It
(12:38):
presumes that, oh, well, the paparazzi stepped in and held
up a mirror and Kate, Richie or and you know,
you mentioned some other celebrity names there, Jesse, But there's
much closer to home than that. I interviewed Julie Goodwin
for mid This exact thing happened to her. She was
struggling with an alcohol problem and she was busted for dui,
(12:58):
and it was one of the many points along the
road that definitely pushed her to get.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Help, but not child in the car.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
But the public nature of it was not, in fact
that pushed her down a much much darker mental health
road that saw her suicidal. It's not that an addict
or somebody struggling with mental health won't go that moment
when I got in the car with my kid. That's
not what happened with Julie Goodwin, and we don't know
that's what happened here, but you know, in an addict's journey,
that moment where I put myself in that danger and
(13:29):
other people in danger was definitely one of the pivotal points,
that moment where I had that fight with that person,
that moment where I spent all my money, all those things,
But the public shaming that he.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Actually was so different to Kate Richie than it was
to say mis Shelle bridges.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
A lot of public goodwill towards Kate Richie. I think
people really love her.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
We've known her all like all her life, pretty much
since she was for her.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, and I do think that we have changed how
we look at these stories. I've even noticed and this
isn't about celebrity. But if you are walking down the
street and someone is behaving in a way, maybe they're yelling,
maybe they're having an episode, maybe they're having a moment.
Ten years ago, I would see people pull their phones
out and there was this instinct to just film. Right recently,
(14:14):
I was walking down the street and that moment happened,
and I saw someone do it, and I saw someone
else say put it away. I reckon that we have
this broader public understanding that that is not how we
behave that there is something morally degenerate, disgusting and virtuous
about that kind of behavior, and it's undignified. It's not
giving dignity to the person that you're filming. So if
(14:36):
I saw someone getting in the car and they were intoxicated,
I might called police. I might, but I wouldn't get
my phone out because that's not how.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
That's not your that's not your business model. Kate, If
you are listening and to anyone who is struggling at
the moment, we send love and we're rooting for you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, we
will pop some resources and links in the show notes.
Have you checked on your labbier lately because it might
(15:09):
not be there anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yes, this.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Is CSI labia.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Apparently, the disappearing labbier is a menopausal symptom that affects
up to eighty five percent of women.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But hardly anyone's talking about it. Maybe we didn't notice.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, wait, the same you can hear is everyone putting
their hand in their path?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
May have you checked your labby recently?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Well, hang on.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Your hands.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
We are in a public space.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Well it's still there, I think, Holly, have you checked
your But the other thing.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Is, you know there's two types.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
There's the manora and the minordia majora MAJORA. I don't
even know the name. Okay, have you heard the catchy
little song?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Have A listened to?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
This?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Side labia majora?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
So majora is the outside? Manora is inside, and you're
telling me that I'm gonna lose.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
When you say outside, do you mean lips or do
you mean outside flaps and inside flaps?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I mean outside flaps and majora inside flaps of manora? Right?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And then plus lips are a different thing. What are
they called? What? I don't know?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You have three sets? No, you have to go to
the doc bar of.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Course mia has more.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I'm at top of the lab.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
You're not meant to have three la You're only meant
to have two.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Anyway during menopause.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Apparently, did you grow an extra pair?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I could have.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Dropping estrogen levels. Unlikely because too much estrogen.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
That is, so you take anyone else have eight labia?
Speaker 4 (16:42):
No, But apparently both the inner and the outer lips
of the vulver can literally shrink and in some cases
completely disappear, and it can start as early as your
thirties or your forties, just keeps coming. The medical term
is vaginal atrophy and it comes with some not so
fun effects like dryna's itching and painful sex. But here's
the thing, apparently you don't have to just cop it.
(17:05):
There are treatments available are from over the counter moisturizers
to prescription istrogen cree.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Because gen X women stood up and they said, not
our lips. You can take everything, but not our minora.
When it comes to Perry menopause and menopause, there's one
woman who would like you all to say less. And
that woman is not me. Despite speaking about your lobbyers,
before I'd even had my coffee on a Monday morning,
(17:33):
I welcome the chats as I'm a lovely person.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
As it's also coming for you, my friend.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yes, I'm not for a long time.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Hold onto your lobby disappear. We could start your thirties listening.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I stumbled across this article in The Australian over the
weekend by Sasha Callahan about how we are treating menopause
like an enemy to be defeated. But at what point
do we just accept we're getting old and give.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Up the fight?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Callahan says, all women are talking about is this bloody
menopause thing. You can't even open a bottle of rose
without someone talking about their drivers.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
She argues, she's been to dinner with me and.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Every ailment from anxiety to tiredness, to your skin changing
to irritability is blamed on menopause. There's no more coming
to terms with that. Apparently we instead have to, and
this is a quote, put ourselves through a biochemical process
of rejuvenation in the hope that we can hold off
to kline and death.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Is she talking about medication? Is she talking? Is hrt?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Also? How old is she?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I would like to know that information, but I didn't
look it up because we play the ball, not the.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Person need to up my hit because I want to
swell her in.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
She says that Perry has become a case of self
I D rather than anything recognizably medical. You say, you reckon,
you're experiencing Perry, and the hormones will be described, and
all this awareness raising is probably very welcomed by the
manufacturers of HRT. You too seem irritable. Is it time
you just accepted menopause and got on with.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It down and accepted position?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Because we're not fight It's not about fighting it right.
She says that you know, you can't open a bottle
of rose without someone talking about the driver vagina. I
know lots of menopausal women who also feel a bit
icky about that, about how intimate were expected to go.
Now everybody like, what's going on with your vagina? What's
going If that's not your thing, it doesn't have to
be your thing. But the great thing about all this
(19:30):
yapping that gen X has been doing is that for
a long time, more than a third of women have
had quite debilitating symptoms with all kinds of issues that
related to their hormones, Perry and menopause, and we.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Didn't even realize they were related to our hormone. We
didn't just would have vagina was for.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
We thought we were losing it, we thought we were
going crazy. We were branded as angry and all the
things that Sasha thinks we should embrace, and medical research
wasn't being done and nobody was doing anything about it.
Whereas it's funny, how often when men, as they get older,
things start to droop. Perhaps there's a little pill for
that like this.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Do you think that sometimes, playing Devil's advocate, we can
flate real symptoms like in som now, brain fog, anxiety,
what happens to your bones, like real stuff, all kinds
of stuff with the more superficial that maybe that's what
some people are going. It's one thing to want to
be able to sleep, but you know, thinking that buying
(20:27):
a cream or something is going to wind back the
clock is you know, ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Well it might in you downstairs, but I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I think that there's a difference between saying I don't
want to look like I'm getting older, which happens also,
funnily enough, during perry and menopause, and as you say,
those superficial signs, but every single symptom that my HRT
treats and every single symptom that women talk about, whether
you choose to take hit or not, there are other
(20:57):
ways to treat it, and even just knowing what causes something.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Arguing too, does it need to be treated, well.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It only needs to be treated inverted commas if it's
negatively affecting your life. Right, And there's no argument that
there is a bit of a gold rush going on,
like drink this tea, rub this cream on, take these
supplements like this candle. There is no question that that's
all happening out there. That's definitely real. Because GEDEX women
have started talking about something, as we said, that hadn't
been being talked about before. We've been talking about it
(21:26):
for apparently thirty seconds, and that we're all being told
to shush. You don't need to treat things unless they're
really impacting your life. But as Mia said before, a
lot of it really does impact a lot of women's
lives for a period of time. And not being able
to ask your doctor without being dismissed as being hysterical,
surely that is just an information exchange. Right.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Women have been accepting everything that happens to their bodies
naturally for tens of thousands of years. And this reminded
me a little bit of the conversation we have about childbirth,
that it's like, yeah, it's this natural thing, and like, yeah,
women have been doing it forever. Why are you trying
to resist this natural process? And the thing about doing
anything naturally is that inherent within nature is there's a
(22:10):
lot of violence and a lot of pain, suffering and
suffering and potentially death and like really scary stuff. And
so if you want menopause to happen naturally without these interventions,
what we've seen is women leaving the workforce prematurely, having
brain fogs so badly that you can't form a coherent thought.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, I think that the two things for me, the
two sides of it. There's the shame which I think
all of this talk about dry vaginas and everything, even
though you might roll your eyes, it's all about bringing
something out of the shamehole that's been a fantastic thing
when it's happened to mental health, when it's happened to miscarriage.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It also prepares domestic charag surprise.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And also they might actually be pleasantly surprised, because not
everybody does get all that stuff, so you might be like, oh, look,
that didn't happen to me.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, And then there's the suffering part, which is there's
twenty five percent of women will have no symptoms, good
for them, awesome, twenty five percent of women will have
incredibly debilitating symptoms that will really imp on their life,
and the rest of us will probably be somewhere in
the middle, which is where i'd say I fall. And
it's very subjective whether you choose to do something about
(23:19):
it or not, buy cream, take hormones, whatever. But information
is power. We know that, and I think that a
lot of this has also been about retraining doctors because
the level of misinformation and buck up little camper vibes
from the medical profession for a really long time has
(23:41):
really damaged women.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So I think it's all good.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
On the nineteenth of January this year, the suburb of
Dural police were contacted and subsequently recovered a caravan on
a residential property rural property. That caravan contained an amount
of explosives and some indication that those explosives might be
used in some form of anti Semitic attack.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
That was a New South Wales Deputy Police Commissioner David Hudson.
Australia's current national terrorism threat level remains probable after a
number of hate fueled attacks against the Jewish community, including,
as Hudson referred to their the discovery of a caravan
in Jural, a suburb of Sydney packed with explosives. Despite
(24:27):
New South Wales's Premier Chris Min's being briefed about the
caravan the following day on January twenty, the information was
purposely not passed on to Prime Minister Anthony Aarbernezi Minns
says that's because it was a strictly confidential investigation. Very
few people were aware of it and very few people
needed to know about it. He said, I take that
(24:48):
responsibility very seriously. The information about the caravan was leaked
by the Daily Telegraph and since debates have surfaced about
who should have known and when I kept thinking reading
these I trust the police, I trust the state government,
and if informing the public or the PM would risk
an investigation, then I totally understand not release this information
(25:10):
to the public. Mia. These threats are specifically aimed at
the Jewish community, a community that you belong to. Do
you think the public has a right to know when
something happens like that.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I hate to sit on the fence of two things
can be true. But I understand the reasoning, the well
intentioned reasoning, of not informing the Jewish community, or in
fact the wider community about this so they could try
and solve the crime and catch the perpetrators. However, and
I don't speak for the Jewish community at all, I
just speak for myself. I would have liked to know,
(25:49):
because I think when you are part of a group
of people that are being targeted and targeted every day
in terrifying ways. You know, in the streets and suburbs
near where I live, synagogues and cars and houses and
daycare centers and schools are being firebombed and vandalised every day,
(26:11):
and there are helicopters flying low twenty four to seven.
The threat is real, and the threat has increased now.
The Jewish community, everyone I have spoken to, is feeling
incredibly distressed, incredibly unsafe. And I think, again we talk
about information is power. You might make different decisions if
you knew that the threat was not I can't believe
(26:33):
I'm saying just about cars being set on fire and
daycare centers being set on fire but about mass casualty
events and people talking about blowing up a synagogue that
I have attended, the Jewish Museum, which I have also
attended just in the last few weeks, which my children attend,
people would make different choices. They might make different choices. Now,
(26:56):
synagogues were packed on Friday because everybody wanted to go
and show their support. I went to synagogue. Did I
take my granddaughter?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
No? I didn't because I knew. So you make risk assess.
Some people chose not to send their children to Jewish
schools or Jewish daycares or changed enrollments. A lot of
us where Mugga David Star of David necklaces, particularly at
the moment around our next at universities in public, we
might choose to hide those. And I can't believe I'm
(27:25):
even saying this, but I think everybody's doing their best
at a time that is shocking. And I'm not going
to backseat drive and criticize what the police are doing
at all, but I just think it's worth putting forward
that perspective as well.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
After the break, We've got an inspirational act of micro
pettiness to share.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
With you unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every
Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
You may have seen that our conversation on last week's
show where we're identified a phenomenon called micro pettiness where
people do tiny, often i perceptibly petty things as a
way to make themselves feel better.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
We were viral, didn't We turns out that out louders
very bad. I'm self identified as the most petty of
any podcast community, and they're like, oh, I have some examples.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Our big boss Ruth came up with this. It's a
totally original syndrome phenomenon micropenniness, and we're leaning in. I
think that one of the people who clearly saw that
video and said hold my beer is Princess Kate Middleton because.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
She zone for being micro petty.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Well, no, she's not.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
You would think she would definitely rise above that. However,
Kensington Palace has announced that she will no longer share
details of her outfits with the public when she goes
to a public occasion. Now this isn't entirely new, but
they have announced it. They tested this out when she
visited Wales recently, and the reason being they say it's
(29:08):
not about micropetty at all.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
They say they want to shift focus from her fashion
to her actual work.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I think Kate has come back from her year off
of being treated for cancer with big knop energy. That's
what I think, yea, even though this seems like a
tiny thing. So what they mean is usually say Kate
goes and opens a bridge or goes to a childcare
center or whatever she does. Obviously, press releases come out.
They tell you where she was, They tell you who
(29:37):
she met, who she shook hands with, what the main
points were, and they tell you what she was wearing.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I didn't realize. They tell you that the.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Media want to know, right, they always want to know,
no matter what, and they got the facts in front
of them. The media will still want to know, and
we'll go and find out. We could all do a
reverse Google image search in a hot minute for the
latest pair of nude pumps.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
It's not ideal because now it won't be confirmed. Now
it might be that it might not be that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
But what she's doing is She's saying, I am no
longer being complicit in your obsession with.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
My clothes over I'm not going to make you job.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Easier for not known for being rebellious. But this is
basically Jesse every time Maya puts her phone to her
for a fit check, and Jesse gets her back up
and shrugs and goes, I don't know what I'm wearing.
I don't care. That's what Kate's doing.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's about what I'm saying. She's what I'm wearing.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Kate's going like, I'm doing my job. I'm wearing clothes.
I know you're taking my picture. Do you want me
to talk about my clothes. I'm not going to talk
about my clothes. Let's talk about early childhood interventions. Let's
talk about that. And everyone goes, no, we want to
talk about your hat.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
She's like, no, I mean one, what Kate's been through,
I'm sure has impacted this decision, but as well the
climate in the UK at the moment, in terms of
cost of living, in terms of really serious political issues
that are being discussed, and the lives like friends that
I know in London, things really hard at the moment.
Does it feel a bit on the nose to have
(30:55):
you know, Kate saying this is from Zara.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
No, I think that would and the thing is that
about her unlike Megan.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
It's interesting.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
It's a real passag thing that the media often does
with women that don't do it with Kate. They only
do it with women that are more polarizing. So, for example,
they'll do it to Zoe Foster Blake. They did it
for a while where paparazzi would follow her around and
then they would say, you know, her outfit is worth
X amount of dime. I was thinking that they would
go and price it all. They do it to Megan Marklek, right,
(31:26):
but they don't usually do it to Kate. And Kate
also doesn't wear very high end things. And there's also
an understanding like the queen, you know that she's not
a fashion plate. But you know who this is bad
for is the fashion industry. I mean, it's not that
bad because, as Holly said, it's not like that information
won't they can cut their hand up they say that's
our skirt. They can you know, then allowed to take
(31:47):
freebies the rules. This is one of the things that
Megan hated. She's like, why can't I get free clothes.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And that's why what you'll often get as a journalist
is you'll get an email from the fashion label saying,
Kate Middleton wore my skirt. Here's a picture of Kate
Midleton wearing my skirt. But they didn't send that skirt Kate.
Because Kate can't get freebies, she has to pay for
her clothes. It's one of the royal rules. And she
also often gets a lot of crap for repeating it.
Outfits right maya.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yes, And I actually think that she uses this very strategically.
Someone else who does this very well is Cate Blanchette,
where they will, you know, their publicist will confirm that, yes,
this is the same dress that Kate wore to the
opening of The Something of the Something in twenty twenty three,
and she's had it altered or she's just wearing it again.
And people really like that, and the media really like
(32:32):
that too, because it means that they can show the
two dresses side by side and look at it then
and look at it now. But there's an instagrammer and
journalist called Elizabeth Holmes. She's right for the Wall Street Journal.
She's now sort of made a specialty. She's not that
Elizabeth Holmes writing about royals, and she's got a brand
or Instagram page called so Many Thoughts, and she has
taken a very journalistic approach to analyzing the wardrobes of
(32:55):
royal women, everyone from the Queen to Diana to now
Princess Kate and Megan Mirkale. And her point is, or
her philosophy is that because royal women can't speak, they
really don't have a voice, right, as Megan Michael also
complained about understandably, and they signify a lot, They say
a lot through the clothes that they wear. That's one
(33:16):
of their primary forms of communication. So I think it's
very micro petty, and I don't say that as a criticism.
I think the principle of it is awesome.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I agree. I wonder if this had something to do
with what happened in November. So in November she made
an appearance at the Remembrance Day event, and her appearance
was so scrutinized. We talked about it on the show.
People made awful comments about aging and close ups of
her face and all that kind of stuff. And I've
(33:48):
got this image in my head of Kate going home
stumping her feet and being like, why can't I just
go to work like everyone else? Why can't I just
go to work and do my job and not have
it be about my appearance being dissected in some sort
of public sport.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I think you spot on there, Jesse, because that's what
you signed up for. Unfortunately that's the job.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
But the tricky part have to be. But Kate is
at a turning point because she's getting to her forties,
because she is no longer a hot young thing in
inverted commas, the scrutiny on her is going to shift.
So it's always been about her weight and her hair
and whatever, but now it's going to be about how
she's aging, because welcome to being a grown up woman.
It'll be like, let's count the wrinkles, let's decide whether
(34:28):
or not she's had any treatments, she had any surgery,
hows she had burtos. That is going to be all
the discourse about her appearance, and she can't control that,
but she can control how much she participates in it.
And I feel like, to your point, Mire, You're so right,
they're not allowed to speak, so silence is kind of
her only power, right, Yeah, So she can go. I
(34:48):
know you're going to do that, and it's really going
to piss me off. This is my job to turn
up to things and you're going to see me with
your eyes and have thoughts about it. But I'm not
playing that game anymore and stomping her foot.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
As you said, do you know what you can also
tell is that she's not a woman who enjoys clothes.
They're certain great, no, no, but that does got nothing
to do with it. There's certain women who love it,
who love clothes. Meghan Markel loves clothes. I love clothes.
Doesn't mean that you two don't look great, particularly you Jesse.
Some women just don't like you genuinely. It's not fun
(35:23):
for you. It's not interesting for you. You like a nice outfit,
you like to look good, and you do look good,
but it doesn't feed you and you get no joy
from it.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
Really, I don't release exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
And that's why.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
And I think Kate genuinely brings her no joy and
you can just see that. So I think that that
is also part of it, is just saying this does
nothing for me. I'm not going to play the game.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
We've got time for it. Out louders, thank you so
much for being with us here on this Monday. Well,
if we're going to have a show where we can't
stop me from talking about Labia anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That woman's right. I actually am inclined to agree with her.
I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
It's my pseudonyms. That that is my pseudonym riting in
the Australian. So my boss will not stop talking about
a vaginal Dryna.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Rose, No, Rose, it's just come up.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I started to put it s Vernon.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
I wasn't even on the show and I heard her
talking about needing that bomb for her driver Jina, and
she's a child.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Okay, that's me.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I didn't start this. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
We'll be back with our Grammys round up tomorrow. We'll
see you that.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Check on your Manora.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Shout out to any Mom and Maya subscribers listening. If
you love the show and want to support us as well,
subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to
do so.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
There is a link in the episode description
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Dateline NBC
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!