Microefficiencies & The Politics Of A Mean Group Chat

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Muma Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to Mummia out Loud, where women come to debrief.
I am Jesse Stevens, I'm.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Me Friedman, I'm Amelia Loster.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
And here's what's on our agenda for today, Friday, the
eleventh of July. The world is not Made for Me.
That is a tongue in cheek title of a newsletter
we read this week, and we have some feedback.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Plus I want to talk about micro efficiencies and all
the tiny genius ways people are saving time. And I
predict that we're going to have an argument about this
one because I think it's awesome. Who doesn't want to
save time? And Jesse will no doubt say it's capitalism's soul.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
I haven't even been able to reply yet, and you're already.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm ready.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Our recommendations include a gloriously escapist rom com, a brand
new Luis throu dot O, and Mia for all the
Perry girls in the room has a protein hack igive.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
One can benefit from protein, not just perry people.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
In case you missed it, it's a Friday and I'm
breaking all the rules of podcasting because hollywoodn't let me
do this, but Maya I don't listen to you, so
I'm just going with it. I'm bringing an optical allusion
to the program today.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Okay, will allow?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
I saw something called the Koffer illusion. Has anyone heard
of this?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
No? No?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
So it was in the Guardian and apparently how you
see it depends on where you live. See what exactly.
The reason why I'm breaking the rules is because this
is an auditory medium, and what I'm talking about is
an optical illusion. So the Coffer illusion is basically.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh, you're going to describe an optical illusion.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I'll show you two in the podcast for Yeah,
so this is it. I want you to tell me.
Do you see squares or do you see circles?

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Squares? Maya? Squares?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Okay, so we all see squares. We'll put it on
the outout Instagram and you can see what you think.
The reason I find this interesting is because the reason
we all see squares is because people in western industrialized
countries see things in a specific way because we are
so used to seeing environments with straight lines and right angles.
So that's how our eyes now interpret things, whereas they

(02:14):
showed this same allusion to people in rural Namibia, one
of the most sparsely populated places on Earth, and they
saw circles.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
How can you see circles in that?

Speaker 4 (02:26):
I know?

Speaker 2 (02:26):
This is what's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
That's like blue dress, green dress.

Speaker 5 (02:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Sometimes I like to let me look at it and
see if I can make my circles.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Is there better listening than oh, I can see circles.
So the silence of me are looking at an image.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
I can see circle. They've gone. Oh, I can see
them again. The circles are in between the squares. Is
the idea that I just got in touch with my
rural roots?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, exactly right. Now, why does this matter? It matters
because we see things not as they are friends, but
as we are, which feels like it sort of sums
up everything on a Friday. How profound?

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Is that? Like a magic eye? Do you see circles? Yeah? Yeah,
I just saw the circle and did they disappear again?
When you focus on it, you can see.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, this is riveting. I can't believe we have it.
One more podcast towards I know.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
I think every week optical Illusion of the Week, and
listeners could listen to us, be like, it's a duck. No,
it's a hat.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Is this why your number one and we aren't.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
I can't believe that.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
I want to tell you a story about a woman
called Veronica Pullin. She lives somewhere called the Isle of Wight,
which sounds made up.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
It does sound a little bit made up, but it
is absolutely not. It is off the coast of England.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
I didn't do geography. I'm very bad with places. I
just learned that Copenhagen is in I've forgotten to Denmark. Denmark.
I thought it was in the Netherlands. Okay, anyway, back
to Veronica. Veronica likes tea, which is why I'm interested
in this story. Every time she wants a cup, she

(04:02):
makes two, one milk here than the other. Because Veronica
likes her tea lukewarm, which is an important detail. She
drinks the milkier one first because adding more milk makes
it the right temperature, so she can drink that straight away,
and she lets the other one sit for forty minutes
until it reaches optimum temperature, and then she drinks that one.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
And you thought my optical illusion was riveting?

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Wow, I can hear us climbing the charge. Anyone got
any questions about Veronica and her tea.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I hate it when people talk about their tea because
I don't drink tea and I don't get it. Okay, well, Amelia,
anything to add to the tea.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
I'm interested in where this is going because it reminds
me of something. Keep going.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
I'm glad you ask. It's all about micro efficiencies because
it takes Veronica's kettle five minutes to boil, so by
making two cups at a time. Just don't hate the player,
hate the game. Okay, she saves five minutes with every
second cup. This is tea mass Keep up. Wait, over

(05:04):
twenty four hours, Veronica saves twenty minutes, and across two
years she has saved more than ten full days.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Do you know what Americans do with their tea to
save time? They pop it in the microwave.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
I put my coffee in the microwave every day because
I want you.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Going on, tangents, Listen. It's called a micro efficiency what
Veronica does with the two cups of tea, and lots
of people are finding ways to hack time out of
their daily lives. I'm very interested in this story. They're
on the rise, according to a story in the Guardian
this week where I learned about Veronica and some other examples.
Let me share them with you. Laying close out the

(05:42):
night before I do that, wearing slip on shoes so
you don't have to waste time with laces or buckles
or even zips or even bending down. You step into
your shoes and you keep walking. Think of the time
You'll say, boiling water once and putting it in a
flask so you don't have to reboil the kettle. And
a lot of people do things like pre prepping a
week's worth of lunches on a Sunday. Also not making

(06:03):
your bed because if no one's going to see it
and you don't care. There's two aspects to micro efficiencies.
Part it's about batching, so doing things once instead of
doing them from scratch each time. And partly it's about
cutting down decision making.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
What do you think so I think that this was
invented by Barack Obama? Do you know why I think
that I do? Jesse, Let me explained, because you're looking blank.
In twenty twelve, there was a Vanity Fair profile of
Barack Obama written by Michael Lewis, who is probably the
world's greatest profile writer, and in this profile he revealed
something that I still think about at least once a week,

(06:39):
right MEO, Yeah, yeah, we talk about it often. We
talk about it often. And in the profile, Obama told
Michael Lewis that he only wears blue or gray suits.
And the reason is, he says, I'm trying to pare
down decisions. I don't want to make decisions about what
I'm eating or wearing because I have too many other
decisions to make. Then a couple months after that, there

(07:00):
was a New York Times profile of Obama and it
was revealed by his friends that he has the same
snack every evening. I know what you're going to say,
It's seven seven.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
How do I know this? And I don't know my
children to my buffone numbers.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
He later said it was a joke. No one believed
him that was real because it was his friends telling
the Times it wasn't him. And I think what's so
interesting about this is that Michelle Obama, who he is
married to, has expressed frustration about his microefficiencies on many occasions.
They're clearly cut from different cloths. She has said, you

(07:34):
can't control everything. My number one daily habit is I
give myself permission to be happy and to prioritize myself.
That is spoken like someone who has never batched hot
water in the therma.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
I think that's very passive aggressive Michelle. I think she
should be because you're a micro person.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
You're eating the same lunch every day.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right, Oh, you're obsessed to life? Is microefficiency?

Speaker 3 (07:56):
No?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
But for me and Obama, it's about making less decisions
in a day, right. And for a lot of people
that's why they do it because they find choice overwhelming.
And I understand that either they find it over all
like Obama, he's got so many decisions to make it
in the day. He doesn't want to have to go,
oh what will I do? But for me, also the

(08:16):
microefficiencies that I'm really into are the time saving ones because,
for example, the reason I decide what I'm going to
wear the night before, it's not that it saves me
time because I might try on or you know, play
around with five different things, but it's a lot less
stressful than doing it in the morning. So I steal

(08:38):
time from the morning the night before.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
So, yeah, this is this idea that you kind of
do something in the present that will make your future easier.
Like that's the philosophy, right, And there's this Japanese concept
of kaisen. Kaizen is actually a business philosophy and it's
a tiny ongoing changes. So when there's moments of tension
in your life, it's like, Okay, how do we fix
this by one percent? And the one percents eventually add

(09:03):
up to something that substantially can be felt. So I
asked people in the office about like their examples of
like microfishing it sees rad and they had squats while
brushing their teeth. I'll get my squats in. No one
hear me out. No one just brushes their teeth anymore.
It's you always use it to clean your bathroom, or
you do it in the shower.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
So you clean your bathroom with your toothbrush.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
No, no, you're brushing your teeth. How many people look
in the mirror and brush their teeth for three minutes
doing nothing else. You'll watch a TikTok video, You'll be
in the shower while you do it. You'll tidy up
a few she It's so true.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
I've started to go and look at my clothes and
decide what I'm going to wear the next day when
I brush your tee.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, because we've got to fill every minute alarms for everything,
getting Siri to write your texts. Someone else said that
the microwave. Whenever they set the microwave in their house,
like even for two minutes or whatever, it becomes a
test of how much they done.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Turn it into supermarket sweep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
I do it all the time, And I'm like, can
I unpack the dishwasher in the forty five seconds?

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Oh, that's really smart because I am forever popping up
because I can't stand waiting for a toaster or a
microwave or a kettle. I'm always drinking lukewarmed a warm
bread and cold food that I can't be bothered to
wait for the full time. But I should just multitask
and do something else during that time.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, So it becomes about doing multiple things at once,
which is funny because while that is efficient, and maybe
it is for these little tasks, but it's not actually
effective for like the big things that you want to
get done for deep work, for substantial stuff. Every expert
in every study will tell you that multitasking isn't good
for us. That single tasking is how we get our

(10:38):
meaningful work done. And I worry that trying to constantly
optimize and this focus on productivity isn't good for our
bigger tasks. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (10:48):
I see what he's saying. So Veronic has saved ten
days over two years. But your point is she just
saved a few minutes each day. It's not like you
can go, right, well, I'm gonna tackle a big project
for a few minutes.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Say also think it becomes habit forming.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Right.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
It's like if I'm at work and I am the
worst at this, Like I will go to the gym,
and I'll go while I'm at the gym, I won't
feel bad about being at the gym. If I can
get through all of my emails and approve these five things.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
Won't feel bad.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
I got tripped up on that.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Too, Yeah, because I'll feel like I should be at
home with lunar, like I should have stayed these This
is a catholic thing.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
No, I think this is a really little kids thing.
This is a mother guilt thing when you feel like
you're stealing time from your child. Remember when you used
to think.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
That, Yes, it's like, if I have to do another
half an hour of work, I might as well do
it while at the gym. And so I'm at the gym,
I'm constantly walking and working and trying to do all
of those things.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
And I think another thing you lose is it's in
those in between moments where ideas come to yeah, and
sometimes the ideas are very mundane, like I realized yesterday
while I was folding laundry that I had an appointment
today that I'd forgotten about. But sometimes they can be
really big things, like big projects. Big breakthroughs happen when

(12:02):
you were tying your shoelacers, because you're not a toddler
and you can tie your shoelacers and still get things done.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
That So every time I meditate, I have to have
a pencil and paper next to me because I will
remember things I've forgotten, like I don't.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Think you're meant to have Do you stop meditating to
then make notes?

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Or I have to do what I do. I'm meditating
and I go, shit, I forgot to do this. Shit,
I've got to do this. And then I make an
acronym in my head so that I don't forget all
of the things I've just remembered, so I'll be like,
try and remember letters that help you remember the thing,
and I'm like, this is I'm doing it wrong?

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Am I?

Speaker 4 (12:35):
Josey failed?

Speaker 3 (12:37):
I also read in that article that you mentioned me.
Another micro efficiency someone mentioned really depressed me. Someone said
that during their workday they write down who is what'sapping
them in a list so that they can address the
messages in the evening. But sometimes my friends are sending
me urgent messages about things that are happening.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Time you write it down in the list, you might
as well just also, why do you need a list?
That's what your phone is.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
That's insane, Jesse.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
I'm surprised at you because I thought you'd come back
with capitalism them trying to make machines.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
You worry about that because the micro efficiency thing has
come from like we are the factory, we are the worker,
we are the manager. We have to optimize every single moment, right,
and that.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Happens, we can recognize that.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Happened in the workplace, and then it's now happened to
do with health, fitness, lifestyle. A lot of micro efficiencies
aren't about the workplace. They're about what you're doing at home.
Hacks hacks, hacked, little life hacks. And my worry is
that if we get into the habit of always having
to do three things at once in order to feel
productive enough, then what do we do? And I have

(13:46):
found this when we shift our gear into day at
home with child and the point of that day isn't productivity.
I think that can be quite a shocking.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
It's so funny about what you say is that one
of the things I always found most stressful about having
little kids and spending time with him and taking care
of them is firstly it's boring, but secondly I just
felt this pull of all the other things I should
be doing. And now when I'm with Lunar, it's the opposite.
It's like my purest joy is to not be doing

(14:17):
anything else and just to be with her.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, and I think that's what time is, right, Like
if we think about we look at time as this
finite resource, right where it's like we've all got the
same hours in the day, and how are you going
to spend.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
A finite resource? But even calling it a resource is.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Interesting, right when time is actually this like malleable experience
where for example, every hour is not equal. The thing
that makes us feel time is the experience of change.
So it's like how two weeks at home feels like nothing,
and then you go you recently went away, Amelia. When
you're in a different context and you're noticing all different things,

(14:55):
suddenly time expands and it doesn't become so mundane. And
I worry that with microefficiencies, is that why our life
is just feeling so fast?

Speaker 3 (15:04):
I think that's such an interesting observation, and it reminds
me that when I moved to a st earlier from
the US last year, a friend who was a psychologist
told me that they've done studies that show that people
who undergo big life disruptions or changes experience their life
as longer. They are experiencing time slowing down. And when

(15:26):
I moved here, the first three months felt like three years.
And then with a five year old and a seven
year old, I'm back now on the roller coaster of
like every month goes by in the blink of a
n eye. But I literally slowed down time in terms
of how I experienced it for those first three months
that I was here, when everything was new.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Is that why when I go on holidays I always
want to come home early. It feels too long. No
matter how long my holiday is or how long I
think I want to go for, when I'm there, it
feels too long.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
And it's the same reason why when you were driving
somewhere new, it always feels like longer getting there, yes,
than driving home.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Because you're noticing all of the context curt.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
To it in a way where when you're driving home,
you're probably less cog of what's passing you, don't you.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Think Also this idea of stealing time, the sense that
we used to be very accepting because we knew nothing
else of boredom, periods of fellow time where you were
in a queue, or when you were driving somewhere and
there wasn't a screen and there wasn't a podcast to
listen to you when you're walking.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
The dog, which is also when we often feel time, yeah,
whereas now we don't feel time.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
That's not That's also why so many organized religions structure
a certain day or a certain time where you are
meant to put everything else aside and experience time.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
And see, this is my concern. I was listening to
there's this great author who writes a lot about time.
Her name's Jenny O'Dell. She was interviewing a mum who
you know, was in the world of mum hacks, life hacks,
all of that, and she said that she feels like
this micro efficiency thing is the equivalent of telling someone
if you just didn't have your morning coffee, you could

(17:06):
afford a house. So we telling people that if you
just stole two seconds while you're brushing the teeth to
wipe down the bathroom, then you would find all this time.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
And you suddenly stretched yes and visit your grandmother.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Time never opens up. We never find that.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Is that because we just feel it now with our
phone all of that spare time.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yes. And also, as we've been discussing, I think nowadays
we experience time as going by and more quickly because
we're packing too much.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
In Yeah, yeah, I agree, out louders, in a moment
of very serious conversation about what it's like to experience
the world as a short person and as a tall person.
We discuss right after the.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Break out louders, we've got a listener dilemma, and we
need your collective wisdom to help us solve it. Please,
here is the problem from our listener. I was accidentally
added to an Instagram group chat called Lisa Watch. Lisa
is one of my mates. I quickly worked out that
it's full of gossip about my friend. There are five

(18:04):
other people in it, including a few mutual friends, and
they've been sharing screenshots of Lisa's Instagram story and even
her text messages. From what I can see, this has
been going on for a while, and honestly, it's made
me feel pretty sick. I've no idea what to do.
Do I stay in the chat so I can keep
an eye on what they're saying about Lisa. Do I
quietly leave and pretend I never saw it, or do
I screenshot everything and tell Lisa what's going on behind

(18:26):
her back? The question is what do you do next?

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Amelia Lester, This is such an interesting dilemma because I
think we can all relate to it on some level.
I was thinking it immediately took me to a group
chat I was in with some old friends, and one
of the friends was not well liked by the other
members of the group, and often there'd be a bit
of snarky commentary off thread about this woman about things

(18:53):
that she had said in the group.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
You say off thread? So was there another group that
was the same people except for her.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
It would be more like one on one or a
case in person. And then I realized in a discernible shift,
every time I posted in this group, I could feel
them talking.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
About what I'd said off thread.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
You know, you can just hear the.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Side that experience.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
I've had that, and you know what they're saying, and
you kind of start playing up to the caricature of
yourself that you know that they're complaining about. And what
I took from that is no one's immune to this,
and nor am I going to pretend that I haven't,
you know, screenshot something that I think is ridiculous and
complain to a friend about it. It's no one's pure

(19:38):
in this situation. But the point is if they're saying
this about Lisa and they're Lisa's friend, they may well
be saying it about you too. And I do think
the organized nature of this chat is taking it to
the next level.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I think it's calling it Lisa Watch. I mean, that's brutal.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
It's taking it to a whole other level of cruel,
and I just question whether these friends are even what
staying in touch.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
With Would you do, Jesse, would you leave the group?

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Would you tell Lisa immediately leave the group? And I
would not tell Lisa. I really I believe very strongly
in not telling people things like that that they don't
need to know. I'm trying to think of that she.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Kind of does need to know it because these are
as I understand the writing here. These people, some of
them are friends with Lisa.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
I'm trying to think though, if there was a group
of people, there are people I mates with who I
reckon probably have side groups where they went to Lisa.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
It's gonna hurt her so much.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, I reckon. It's like if someone came to me
and said, hey, you know that person they actually say
X and zed about you, I'd be like, I probably
didn't need to know about x Y and zed meya.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
In the nineties, I loved doctor Phil because he always
gave scripts for how to have difficult conversations. And I
know that you have a script for me. What's the
script of how you tell Lisa?

Speaker 1 (20:46):
I don't tell her. There is no script.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I don't want don't What do you do, though, do
you think you leave the group?

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I leave the group?

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Do you say anything?

Speaker 1 (20:53):
And yes, I would say, guys, I'm not comfortable being
in this group. I wish I hadn't been added. So
you shame them and then you leave.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
You actually totally would say that that.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
I would, And then I'd also, as you say, Amelia,
I'd have a good think about, oh I feel about
these people in this group. I remember the Kardashians had
a thing where they had a group that was not Courtney,
and then we started a group that was not Holly.
Holly was in it, and it was called not Holly
for a really long time. What was you mean, Holly?

(21:26):
It was not Holly. So I think get out of
the group and shame them on your way out.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
I just think that while we all do this thing
where we complain about mutuals on the internet, starting this
group to talk about this woman and calling it Lisa
watch is a whole other level, And I think Lisa
needs to know that these are people who call themselves
her friend.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Would you tell the details or would you just say Linda.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
No, I wouldn't tell the details, but I'd open up
a conversation with Lisa about the friends in this group
and about how's that relationship going, and.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Because then she'll be like, what did they say? Yeah,
I just think sometimes these honesty like it might make
you feel better, it might alleviate some of the guilt
about what you know having been in that group, But
all it's going to bring Lisa is a world of
pain in her Ya. You're right, so I actually think
you said a word before that I would say, I'd say, guys,
this is very high school. I feel really uncomfortable being here.

(22:18):
And then Amelia has left the chat.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Out loud as what would you do next? Share your
thoughts in the mummea out loud Facebook group and also
if you have a dilemma, you can send it to
us at out loud at maummeya dot com dot au.
We would love to help. The world was not built
for me. That is a very melodramatic, tongue in cheek
title of a newsletter by Sabrina Molu all about the
experience of being five foot tall, otherwise known.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
As Sabrina Carpenter Quite short?

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, how total are you? I am about five one
five two around there? I think, look, I too am
quite short and m vernum actually sent me this newsletter right,
and I was like, okay, I have never genuinely had
the sense that the world was not built for me,
and I would like to just take a moment for
all of us to put on the table. We know

(23:06):
that there are people who the world is not built for,
for example, people with this abilities. That is why this
article is tongue in cheek and very silly. And so
I looked at it and I went, m this is
a bit of silliness. I'm going to ignore it. And
then I read it and I went, you know what?
She makes some compelling points.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
What are you sitting on right now, Jesse?

Speaker 2 (23:20):
I'm sitting on a cushion. I always need to sit
on a cushion. That is because I'm short. It is
also because I have issues with my proportions, which is
a particularly short upper half. Here are three of the
most compelling points she makes. The first barstools and medieval
torture devices. She says they're not made for sitting, they're
made for dangling. Maya, do you identify with that?

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, I never feel very I mean, I'm five. Isn't
it funny we still save feet?

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I still think of height in feet. I'm about five
foot five.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Probably bullshit, No you're not. You've just pulled that out
of nowhere. You're maybe five three five, No, you are
very okay, this is just lies that you're telling it,
and you can.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Come one hundred and sixty five centimeters.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
You're a danglar. You definitely die.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Oh yeah, I'd never feel secure on a barstool.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Okay, how about this is the second point of three.
Maxi dresses are a hazard nowational security. She says they
were not made for me. They were made for statues
outside the met Maya, can you wear a Maxi dress?

Speaker 1 (24:15):
I can? Am I always successful? And do I fall over?

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yes, Amelia, how tall are you look?

Speaker 3 (24:21):
I'm five to seven. The world I think was made
for I have no complaints.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
The third point she makes are jim machines are a
personal attack. I actually agree with this. The seats are just,
but do they really is a question. I adjust them
and I'm still like, well, I'm not touching the bottom
of the.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Foot, okay, like bicycles, like.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Bicycles and stuff. I'm just like, this doesn't really work.
Look now. One point she makes is about airplane seats,
and I was like, short girls cannot complain about planes.
So in the interests of balance, we invited one Stacey Hicks.
She is mom and Maya's deputy editor. That is important,
But you know what's more important. Stacey stands at six
foot one oh yeah, otherwise known as one hundred and

(25:02):
eighty seven center meters. I've never even looked Stacy in
the eye till she's just sat down beside me.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
She's not sitting on a cushion, but she does have
some books underneath her microphone to make it taller.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Otherwise microphone has a booster seat.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Pe Yes, other way, your nipples were talking to the
microphone exactly, Stacy.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Now, I know Stacey's here to complain about how hard
it is to be the height of a supermodel, and
I'm totally willing to hear her out on that. I
do have to point out that before we started recording,
Stacey announced that she got dressed in the dark. Today
she still looks like a supermodel. Yeah, i'd like how
I want to get the world's tiniest violin. I'm here,
Stacy out look.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
That is very generous of you. I don't want to
minimize the plight of short people like I see you.
Why I'll see you here very far away. I see
you like I am a foot above you, But I
do see you but just from the opposite end of
the spectrum. Like plane seats, my knees have never known
a minute of peace. They are jammed against a seat

(26:03):
on a bus, on a train. On a plane, you
are basically in business class twenty four seven. Actually, that's
like spacious for you. Dangle away. I don't care. It's
better than being folded up like a little prawn.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I do think this when you get the advantage of
sometimes having a spare seat next to you in the
right pretzel position, I can have a bed out of
two seats exactly like that would what maybe you should.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
I would have to put my legs on the person
across the aisle to be able to do that. That
is not happening for me.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
If this is a complaint about the world was not built, yea,
how is the world not built for tall people?

Speaker 4 (26:37):
Oh, Jesse, let me list the waist. You hit your
head on everything. I have a bruise right now, Lucky
we're filming. That is from hitting my head on a
lamp shade that was not made for me. Maxi dresses
look like MIDI dresses. Meati dresses look like mini dresses.
Mini dresses look like tops. So nothing looks right.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Where I can wear tops as dressed exactly, I would
look absurd.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I want to counter that short girl problem. Sure you
should see the bottom of my jeans because they have
picked up everywhere I've ever been. They are so scuffed,
they are so dirty, they are disgusting. Talk to me
at the bottom of your jean's. I bet their pretending
you know what.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
My ankles are out all the time, pets and never
long enough.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
She has to shave her uncles because they're always in visible.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
C and short people. They like to say, oh, but
you know, my pants are like billowing on the ground.
But to you, I say, you can take them up.
I can't add like a little fringing to the bottom
of mine, I would look crazy.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
Maya would add, maybe we should do that.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Do you quite like it? Stacey? Is another problem that
whenever anyone meets you for the first time, they invariably blurt.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Out, oh, you're tall.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
It is unbelievable. When I first met my husband, he
thought I was exaggerating because he's the exact same height
as me and has never experienced it. No one has
commented on his height. But when we are in grocery stores,
when we're with our daughter. People strangers come and tap
me to turn me around to say, wow, you're so.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Tall, and what's your response?

Speaker 4 (28:02):
I say, am I, I say thank you for letting
me know. And then they instantly realized that it's like
they just can't hold it in.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Do people ask if you're an athlete?

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yes, and that's worse because very coat.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
Everyone asks if I did basketball or netball, and like
a lot of tall people will know, like your brain's
a long way from your legs and your arms the
coordination you're athletic.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, it must be. I see I got to have
an excuse at school when I was like, well I'll
never be a professional netballer. Yeah, everyone's still you didn't
even come into it. I am.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Vernon was saying to us on this topic that if
she dates a very tall guy, like someone over six',
one it's very uncle because she's is that?

Speaker 4 (28:50):
True, yes she's a.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
REGULAR i nearly said, normal she's a.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Thank.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
You which is the.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Average height of An australian. Woman see this is you
trying to be the common, Woman. Mayor it's one hundred
and sixty five centimeters or five, four Which i'm a basic.
Bitch simply. Not what we're going to do, is after,
this we're going to do An instagram. Story, yeah, WELL
i get out of tape measure and prove to you That.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I'm not one hundred and. Sixty BUT i want to
know why it's a betrayal of the.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Sisterhood.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah, well we were talking about this out there because
another one of our colleagues is five foot, flat, yeah
and dates a man who's six foot. One and we,
said you're just not a girl's. Girl you've stolen from
the tall girl pool because the Smaller, yes, YES i,
mean of course we could date a shorter, man but
generally they don't want to date a taller, woman so

(29:39):
the pool is very. Small, ironically did.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
You find that when you were dating that there Was.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Yeah LIKE i THINK i would have been open to
dating someone a little bit shorter than, me but there
is that thing of, oh is everyone staring at me
even more now because in COMPARISON i look so much.
Taller it's why When Nicole kivman And Tom cruise broke,
up she said that she could finally wear.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Heels, yeah but then she Married Keith, urban which makes no.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Sense she likes the short.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
KING i want to ask if you were.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
HEELS i do sometimes now As i've gotten. Older NOW i,
go you know, What everyone stares at, me comments on it,
anyway SO i might as well just go a little bit.
Further like to everyone who's down at about five, FOOT
i just look like a building, anyway so you might
as well add on a few extra. Centimeters SO i just.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Roll with it.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
Now but even on my wedding, day which was ten
years ago, NOW i wore flats AND i was, like,
yes the dress is, long no one can even, see
So i'll just be as close to the ground AS
i possibly.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Can are there any other grievances you've got the? Microphone
are there any other grievances about how the world is
built that just Makes stacy's life?

Speaker 4 (30:36):
Harder. Yes WHEN i have to hug any of, you
you're at my boo, pipe so to be, Polite i'll lean,
forward which then means my torso is about a meter
away from. You so it's just. Awkward no matter what's
actually so that.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Is you, know it's very.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Hard i've got quite small. Feet why won't anyone think of?

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Me how does that make your life? Harder go, on
try and think of one, way your chooes are actually
cheaper because you often get them from the kid. Section,
TRUE i don't.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Know sometimes MAYBE i topple over because they're too shut.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Feet and also the hardest one of, all get out
you're violent. AGAIN i never get called. Cute yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Cute, Yeah oh that's so. True ACTUALLY i think.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
You're, Cute SO i win this. ARGUMENT i thank.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
YOU i think. YOU i reckon the world is harder
if you're really. TALL i actually agree with.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
YOU a tall, WOMAN i think very very.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
Trull and you can never sneak out of a, party
WHICH i would.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Hate thank.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
God you can never smike.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Bomb not, tall you can't smoke.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Bomb you could hide Under stacy's, cloak and you could
have a C.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
It's an outfit that a tall woman could Totally after the,
break we've got some recommendations for, you including a documentary
that will make you feel, smarter a film with our Favorite,
daddy and your new favorite party starter Loud.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
As if you want to listen to us every day
of the, week you can get access to exclusive segments
On tuesdays And thursdays by becoming A mum and mea.
Subscriber follow the link in the. Show so it's to
subscribe and support, us and a big thank you to
all our current.

Speaker 6 (32:13):
Subscribers vibes ideas, atmosphere something, casual something.

Speaker 7 (32:24):
Fun this is my best.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
Recommendation It's, friday so we want to help set up
your weekend with the very best recommendations we. Have, jesse
why don't you go?

Speaker 2 (32:34):
First all? Right my recommendation is a. DOCUMENTARY i think
it came out in Like april on THE, bbc but
it's just dropped In australia ON ABC I. View it
Is louis through The. Settlers it's CALLED i have seen
everyone of his. Documentaries i'm obsessed with his, work and
about fourteen years ago he did a documentary on Ultra,
zionists which explored a very specific group of religious nationalists

(32:56):
In israel who were infringing on international law by building
their homes In palestinian.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Territory, Right they've always been quite controversial Within, israel both popular.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
A lot of criticism and scene as very much a fringe.
Group he revisited this so because it was released earlier this.
YEAR i think he filmed it in twenty twenty, four
certainly since the war, began so it tells the story
of these people who go Into palestinian communities who have, houses,
schools everything and force them, out knock down their, homes

(33:31):
destroy their water, supply and often it leads to. Violence
and what you see as well Is louis as a
White british man coming face to face with some members
of THE idf who were checking him at. Checkpoints there's
this really emotive scene of him with an Older palestinian
man and they kind of are walking around the city
and THERE'S i couldn't visualize the, checkpoints so to see

(33:53):
that was really. Insightful and then they get to a
point and it's Like louis can go this, way but
The palestinian man has to go a completely different way
and have all these papers checked and. Everything for, CONTEXT
i think this is. Important as you, Say, maya there Are,
israeli some are depicted in this documentary who actively protest these.
Settlements this is not Every. Israeli this is a very

(34:16):
specific group and it's been difficult to gauge. Precisely but
these settlements have been, unpopular but sentiment has certainly, changed
and this is Why louis did, It because sentiment has
changed Since october seven there's a sense that Some israeli
see it as a security measure that's almost creating more
distance between them and The, palestinians but it is understood
internationally as a total infringement on human. RIGHTS i watched

(34:40):
that and THEN i Watched No Other, land which is
The Academy award winning documentary About palestinians who go and
protest the creation of these. Settlements they tell a very similar.
STORY i also recommend. That so two brilliant, documentaries and
look like every, documentary these two, documentaries they tell one.
STORY i think it's a really really important. Story BUT
i know THAT i posted about This louis documentary of The,

(35:02):
weekend and there were some people saying there are documentaries
About october seven that you should, watch and SO i
know that there are lots bring this sort of subject,
matter AND i want to acknowledge. That BUT i just
think it's important to tell stories from lots of different,
perspectives and that's what these documentaries.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Offer mine is a movie that you need to go
and see at the cinema at the. Moment it is
a rom com and it is Called The. Materialists hey
are you?

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Single i'm a?

Speaker 7 (35:28):
Matchmaker give me a call if you want to meet.
SOMEBODY i deserve someone who fulfills all of my, criteria
nothing over twenty.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
PM i don't want someone who likes.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Cats i'm trying to.

Speaker 7 (35:38):
SETTLE i promise you're going to marry the love of your.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Life sweet so?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Much how many marriages are you responsible for? Now lucy?

Speaker 7 (35:47):
Nine if the girl asks for, us call drink water
has fun with a salary over five hundred grand always
missed you?

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Deliver you're a?

Speaker 4 (35:59):
Matchmaker do you want to drink sure cocin? Beer?

Speaker 5 (36:03):
Oh The dakota John Johnson Pedro pascal, Exactly it's just
A canadian Director selene's song who kind of is, LIKE
i think one of the most interesting modern artists thinking.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
About love and what love.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Is did you say past?

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Lives?

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yes AND i love love amaz yea, yeah, okay. Yeah
i've heard a lot about this. Movie what's?

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Like? Yeah so it has lots of THINGS i. Love for,
instance it has a dating montage Where Dakota johnson goes
on various dates with people In New york and like
has to sort of suss out.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
What type they, are which you've, done WHICH i have?

Speaker 3 (36:36):
DONE i love a dating. Montage it Has New York
city real, estate pawn there's a lot Of soho lofts
and Gorgeous Tribeca japanese restaurants love it and also a
love triangle Featuring Chris pine and as you Mentioned Pedro.
Pascal for, me it was kind of reminiscent of not
as good as but reminiscent OF i, think what is
the best from com of all? Time you ready for

(36:58):
weddings and a? Funeral? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah kind of
reminiscent of. That and it also has a lot to
do with pride and, prejudice And selen's song has talked
about that, too because it's really exploring issues around love and.
Money she basically has to choose no spoilers, here but
she has to choose between a rich man and a poor.
Man and it gave you a lot to talk about
with your friends, afterwards about those decisions that you make

(37:19):
in your twenties and thirties around who AM i going
to be with and how important is? Money And i've
heard good.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Things i've seen a lot of think, pieces which always
makes me want to go.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
In it's very. Polarizing you may hate, it but you
will have plenty to talk about. Afterwards and in the,
meantime you've spent two hours With Chris, Pine Pedro pascal
and Some New york real.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Estate there's worse, things.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Maya how about?

Speaker 3 (37:39):
You what's your?

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Recommendation mine is a.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Snack, now a bit of a disclaimer before we. Start
you may have heard On parenting Out, loud which you
two have been co hosting and which has been a huge.
Hit one of the sponsors on that show Is. Ninja
they do food preparation. Appliances, right this is not. Sponsored
this is not related to. THAT a few months, ago,

(38:01):
actually At, CHRISTMAS i bought from my son A ninja.
Slushy it's like a little machine that makes ice cream
out of, anything like. Yoga you can put, it you
can make.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Anything he's made mango ice cream for.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Us, yeah it was big On. Christmas. ANYWAY i can't
remember HOW i found this. OUT i think from. Him
he drinks a lot of these protein shakes in all different,
flavors AND i said to, him IF i put that
in The ninja, slushy CAN i make it into ice?
Cream because every NIGHT i have ice, cream usually with
cocoa pulps on. It AND i was, LIKE i need

(38:34):
to eat more. Protein i've got to be more micro
efficient and try to get more protein into more of my.
Food Pretty much ALL i do is try and shoehorn
protein into my. Meal so what IF i turned this
chocolate protein drink into ice? Cream AND i, did and it's.
Amazing does it taste?

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Good, yeah it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Taste quite like ice, cream but it's got protein in,
it and it's like ice. Cream and you can add
extra milk to, it or you can add you, KNOW
i can put anything in. THERE i can put some
banana in. THERE i can put, like, yeah that's My
and sometimes IF i want, Texture i'll put some rice
bubbles on it BECAUSE i don't drink like big milky protein.
Drinks BUT i love it in. Making is the clean

(39:14):
up a bit of a? Hassle, no it's just in
this little thing that you just rinse out and put.
On she can eat it straight out of the tub
that it gets made.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
In. OH i love that before we, GO i have
a best to throw into the. Mix we haven't been
doing best for the, worst but sometimes something happens THAT
i think is worth. Highlighting luna turned to this, WEEK
A Little angel turned To mayer And mum came over that.
Night we all had a. Champagne Not. Luna she didn't
have a. Champagne she had a, cake and then we
went to the. Zoo do you go to the zoo?

Speaker 6 (39:41):
Much?

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Emili?

Speaker 6 (39:42):
YEAH i love.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
It What's luna's favorite animal?

Speaker 2 (39:44):
There surprisingly the DINGOES i wouldn't. Have very charismatic they,
are and there are a lot like, dogs which we,
have SO i was, like, REALLY i would.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
THINK i also had a lot about the.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Snakes the snakes and the koalas were kind.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Of A kola's bit, sleepy a bit. Boring, yeah but
she like the snakes a.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Lot, yeah she does fantastic.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
IMPERSONATION i feel like what you are now as a toddler.
Parent how does the? Title you know WHAT i? Mean?

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Anymore two year olds get a bad rap and a
lot of the TIME i won't defend, them but they
are bloody. Cute they are really. Cute the language and.
Everything it's such a, fun fun stage and we're having to.
Celebrate we're having like A jewish naming, ceremony which is
going to be really. Cute we get to choose A
jewish name for her because Obviously lucas side the family
Is jewish and we want to raise her that. Way

(40:31):
and as with Every jewish, celebration there's a bluey.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Cake Definitely.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Kate yeah, yeah cake is.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
An early.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Night claire also bought her An Emma wiggle that's too,
cute so now she it's her Back obama. Uniform, yes isn't.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
It i'm feeling a little bit competitive With claire because
she loves This Emma wiggle costume so, much SO i
just keep buying her, clothes none of which she wants to.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
Wear she just wants to.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Wear she just wants to wear That Emma. Wiggle and
what we do is when it's, dirty family sits down
and watches the washing machine because she wants to Watch
Emma wiggle go round and round and. Around so it's an.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Activity it's a really fun special time.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Too it's just such a fun. Time but, Yeah luna's little, Birthday.
Tuly that is all we have time for. TODAY a
big thank you to all of you the out louders
for listening to today's. Show we will be back in
your ears next. Week we have been loving all your
feedback about parenting Out. Loud you've been so. Nice the
next episode drops This saturday with, Myself amelia And, stacey

(41:34):
and we talk about sleep. Separation we have a debate
about the hopeless, dads and we discuss why parents are
saying good night to the bedtime. Story if you want
to listen to, that you can find it in The
This glorious mess. Feed you can go and listen to
that from tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Morning, oh we've got to read you, Out read us.
OUT a big thank you to our Team Greef. Grief,
ruth who is our group executive, Producer Ruth. Devine she's
Called our audio producer Is Leah. Porge's our video Producer
i'm struggling, Today yeah, please video producer Is Josh.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Green and our junior content producers Are cocoa And. Tessa
thanks for the water. Bottle bye out Loud.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
As if you're not ready to say, goodbye we thought
we would leave you with a little bit of a
conversation we had on yesterday's subscriber episode with a few
of our. Dilemmas if you like the dilemma in today's,
episode we often Our thursday episodes are full of, very
very thorny. Dilemmas as, always a link will be in
the show notes shout out to Any mum AND mea subscribers.
Listening if you love the show and you want to support,

(42:39):
us subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best way
to do. So there's a link in the episode description

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