So, We Sat Down With A Tarot Card Reader

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hello, out louders. Just a quick note from me before
we start today's show.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Just a reminder that on.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Fridays we always like to take a break away from
the news cycle and give you something metea or lighter, lighthearted,
have a bit of fun towards the end of the week.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
Now on for a little bit of Friday fun.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Welcome to mum mea Out Loud. What women are actually
talking about on Friday, the twelfth of September. I'm not
Hollywayne right, she is here, but I'm trying to save
her voice.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Holly, go on.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
I'm sorry I sound a bit bad today, out Louders.
I feel fine, but you're going to put up with
this for a little bit.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
It gets better. I'm sure it'll get better.

Speaker 6 (01:00):
And I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm Amelia Laster And just
before we get started, I wanted to let you know
that Holly has taken over the MoMA MEA out Loud substack.
I know there's a lot of substacks demanding your attention
these days, but all.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
This is so good it is and it's free.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
It's free, which is great.

Speaker 6 (01:17):
I do have to say that she wrote this one
a couple of weeks ago, and you can tell she's
a writer because I know she really thinks through what
she's going to write, what she's going to say. And
it was really memorable. It was about this one time
that she wanted to kill Jesse, and what it actually
got into was some really juicy, complicated thinking around jealousy
and around professional jealousy and friendship jealousy. And I just

(01:40):
can't stop thinking about it, and how lovely to get
that in my inbox.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
So we'll pop alink and the sheds.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
On our agenda for today.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
If you hear the words love and sex addict, what
pops into your head? I think for me, it's like
a famous manner David Dukovney, you're always cheating on his wife, right,
And it's a bit of an excuse all it used
to be what popped up before I interviewed his Gilbert recently,
because maybe a love and sex addict looks like a
world famous female author whose love stories have inspired.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Plus I somehow convinced both of you to let us
do an entire segment with a tarot card reader who
I saw privately a few weeks ago, and I made
her sit down with us, and she predicted things that
there's no way she could have known.

Speaker 6 (02:25):
And we've got some recommendations for your weekend. One is
so tense that you'll be biting your nails, and another
is very sexy.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
You might be reaching for the smelling salts business.

Speaker 6 (02:36):
In case you missed it, grown women and toddlers are
converging on one thing, and that thing is the importance
of baths.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
BAF time, BAF time.

Speaker 6 (02:45):
Thank you forget catching up over spicy margaritas. The new
way that women are talking to each other and spending
time together is to soak in a sauna.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
The New York.

Speaker 6 (02:55):
Times this week reported on what it called the smoking
hot return of bathing culture.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Now I love going for a sauna.

Speaker 6 (03:04):
There's a place here in Sydney that every month I
go with a friend of mine and we do a
sauna and we just feel so wonderful afterwards, and our
skin glows, and then we do go and get a
spicy margarita. But the important thing is that we first
did the healthier thing, going for a sauna. Is to
enter a healthy third space. One of the women says
to the Times, it's cheap, it's good for you. It
doesn't evolve drinking. It's not your home, it's not a bar.

(03:26):
It's a third space. And there's more of a focus
these days on preventative health. I think post pandemic, everyone's
looking for ways to feel better, to feel well, and
you are doing your body a favor.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
When you go to the sauna, I have questions, go,
do you have to get naked in front of each other?

Speaker 6 (03:42):
No? The way that most saunas work. In fact, every
sauna I can think of going to, you wear a
bathing suit or a swimsuit, single sex, mix, sex, mix sex.
The sauna that I go to has very bright lighting,
which is good because no, it's good because then you
know that it's clean. I actually get a little nervous
when you got a one that's trying to be very

(04:03):
erotic and dark, because you don't want to do that
with strangers. And also you don't want to see like little.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Bits of hair bathouses are popping up all Sydney. You
into it. Jesse, I am.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
I went recently with my mum and Claire and it
was the same because I think that when you hang
out with people. I have found this recently where you go,
I don't want to go out for a really expensive
dinner or a cocktail, like things are just so expensive,
and you can go to a bath house. There's been
a bunch pop up sort of all around the city,
and the point of the bath house is the idleness,

(04:34):
like they're sitting there for a long period of time.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
And I was reading this, how long do you go for?

Speaker 3 (04:38):
I reckon, we were there for two hours and just
laid around. There's kind of a really hot bath, and
then there's one that's a little bit cooler, and then
they even had the cold plunges, which I was like,
absolutely no interest. But I was reading this substack all
about the rise in bathing because what happened was they
were massive in ancient Rome, and like I've been to

(04:59):
one in Turkey and all over the world, and due
to a number of factors, including interestingly the AIDS epidemic,
bath houses were closed across like the US and Europe
and a lot of places, they just kind of disappeared.
And also because we all got our own plumbing, so
we had a bath at home, so who needs these
public ones, but there's been this rise, especially post COVID,

(05:23):
for this preventative health wellness idleness thing that we're all
kind of interested in. I found that funny because it's
also turned into In this sub stack, it said it's
turned into this hydrotherapy meat circuit training. You see some
people go and they've got to do cold lunch hop
plunch it.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
And it was saying, no, no, The point of the
bath house is that you sit no phone.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
You literally can't take your phone exactly.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
You have to just be and it's about boredom and
letting your mind rest.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
And even the ancient.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Romans would talk about how they got ideas and stuff
in their bars.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
We don't have any of these down my way. I'm
going to come to Sydney just for a bath day.
That's great.

Speaker 6 (06:04):
I did just go to one in Brisbane because I
went to Brisbane on a quick trip and the first
thing I looked up was whether or not there was
a bath house.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
There was a spectacular one.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Because you used to live in Japan.

Speaker 6 (06:13):
Thank you, thanks for bringing that up. I'm so did
you go yeah all the time. Fact, that's where I
got into it. Typically there, it's very common once a week,
say to go with your family to the bath house.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
As a family. So it's not single family.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Actually it is divided into sexes. There.

Speaker 6 (06:30):
A fun fact is that in Japan they did bathe
nude co ed until the Americans came in the late
nineteenth century and made it weird and they're like, oh,
we should put clothes on. They made it weird, but
it's a very family activity.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
I did one in Turkey years ago. I've never forgotten about.
Where they wash your hair and they exfoliate. I remember
watching things come off my skin. This is amazing.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Koreans are also great at that too.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
I was silk. I came out just like sliding all
over the place. I would love it.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
I don't think Western cultures know how to exfoliate it.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
No, So I interviewed Elizabeth Gilbert a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
You haven't stopped talking about. I know I was a
little bit obsessed. I did it for a special episode
of No Filter. I don't know that there would be
many out loud as. You've never heard of Liz Gilbert,
but if you haven't, she wrote Eat, Pray, Love right,
so almost twenty years ago now, and that's one of
those rare books that just exploded into a cultural thing, right,
millions and millions of copies, Western women all over the

(07:28):
place going I need to go and find myself somewhere.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
She really contributed to the over tourism of Balie.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
She did. Julia Roberts played her in a movie. Anyway,
we didn't talk about any of that, Right, She's become
obviously a very big sort of cultural figure in a
certain kind of I hate to say self helpy world,
but probably in that self helpy universe, right, And not
very many of us have much in common with Liz Gilbert.
I wouldn't say she's exceptionally rich these days. You know,

(07:57):
she's had a life of many extremes that are documented
in her books. But I reckon that quite a lot
of women would have a little bell ringing in their
head when she talks about what her new book is about,
which is about being a sex and love addict. So
at the front of this book, her book is a
memoir about the last few years of her life, well
actually the last decade or so of her life, including

(08:20):
her relationship with Raya Elias, who she If you followed
her on social you would know all these things, but
if you didn't. She famously left her second husband for Raya.
Raya was her best friend of many years, but when
she was diagnosed with cancer, Liz realized that actually she
was in love with Raya and this was a romantic relationship,
and they got together and Liz was with her until
she died, and a whole lot of shit went down.

(08:41):
And that's what the book's about. But also it's about
sex and love addiction, which I reckon lots of women
will be like hmmm. At the front of this book,
she says, I am a sex and love addict. I
have caused tremendous harm to myself and others through my
decades of sex and love addiction. I have inserted myself
into other people's relationships, and I've broken up families. I

(09:03):
have lied to myself and others. I have hurt people
who I promised to cherish. I have crossed boundaries with friends.
I've run away from people who cared about me and
towards people who didn't. I've cheated on people and allowed
myself to be cheated on. I've tried to buy love
with money. She goes on, I've committed and accepted shameful objectification.
I've used people's bodies as drugs, both sedatives and stimulants.

(09:25):
I've treated my own body with terrible disrespect, and I
have never been able to stop. Now, what do you
think when you hear that?

Speaker 3 (09:34):
There were elements of what she said there and also
in interviews I've been reading over the last few weeks
where I thought, I find that deeply relatable. She said
that she has felt lost in the endless search for connection,
and I thought, yeah, I think that's a deeply human experience.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
But when I.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Hear something like that and she gets into the details
of how she behaved, I stopped relating with a lot
of what she was talking about and thought, oh, I
actually think I've been in relationships with people who have
had sex and love addictions.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
You know people who or I know people.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
And I think that for me, the biggest red flag
has been in fidelity and a really fast on intense
relationship that when the whether it's dopamine or the adrenaline
that kicks off a relationship, once that begins to settle,
the person seems to lose interest and go and find

(10:32):
it somewhere else, which I suppose is very much like
an addiction like they're looking for another hit, like a
hit for someone to validate them in a new way
that one partner can't consistently do.

Speaker 5 (10:46):
The parallels that she paints a lot in this book
because Rayo was a drug addict right who'd been in
recovery for a lot of years but lapsed in the
last months of her life.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Really, she says, addicts of.

Speaker 5 (10:56):
All kinds use substances and things to take their pain away,
to make them feel better, and love and sex addicts
do that with relationships. One of the problems with it
is is we all idolize this level of romantic So
just a couple of things, she says, are quite typical
of the love and sex addict that might ring bells
right overlapping relationships so often not ending one too, you've

(11:17):
got another one to go to, throwing yourself into them,
completely pouring all your time and resources into them. And
she says women in particular, we're programmed to give, give, give,
so it's something that women are more likely to do often,
this idea that this relationship will make everything great, like.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
He will heal me, This will heal me, My life will.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
Be fabulous because now I am loved this person will
fix everything. But then, as you've sort of said Jesse,
as the haze clears and as she points out, someone
has to get up and go to work or do
other things for their family, or just basically go back
to life. The enrangement of abandonment where you're kind of like,
after all I did for you, and now you haven't
fixed me, and you're furious and you move on to

(11:58):
the next partner. I think I was a bit like
that in my youth, so I probably wasn't an addict,
but I know people like that.

Speaker 6 (12:06):
Okay, but aren't we just papologizing bad decisions here? Like
the thing that I can't get on board with is
in using the language of addiction. It's almost like grafting
her bad decisions onto what is more of a medical issue.
Another person who's called themselves a sex addict is Harvey Weinstein.

(12:27):
That was his big excuse when he was found out.
He said, I'm a sex addict and going to rehab
now that he was thrown in prison. And obviously Liz
Gilbert hasn't done anything wrong in a criminal way, but
he used it sort of like an excuse, sort of
like to say, I couldn't help myself. And what I
find difficult about that is we all have these neurotransmitters

(12:48):
in our brain that are triggered when we fall in LoVa,
when we're attracted to someone. We've all got to deal
with that flood of dopamine, and we all want more
of it. It feels really good to fall in love.
I think we can all agree on that. But the
Liz Gilberts and Harvey Weinstein's of the world as saying,
but I wanted more of it because it felt really good.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Can both be true though, because it's like I enjoy
a glass of wine, right, but I don't enjoy a
glass of wine as much as someone who has a
real dependence on alcohol. And that doesn't absolve that person
from getting behind the wheel. It doesn't absolve that person
from acting violently if they've had too much to drink.

(13:26):
But there are clearly people who are more predisposed to
addiction and to chasing those highs.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
And also it's the glass of wine analogy. You can
have a glass of wine or two glass of wine,
but not have to keep going. And I guess her
point is that we might have all experienced the highs
of the dopamine highs of love and lust. Let's hope
we have at some point in our lives and wanted
to chase it again. But some people are less like
just can't not. I mean, I get your Weinstein example,

(13:57):
and I think that, just like lots of addictions and
mental health conditions, it can be used as an excuse.
But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
No, that's a good point.

Speaker 6 (14:05):
You know, the DSM, it's this book that has all
the psychological conditions, and that's sort of what is recognized
by health insurance companies and governments. In order to assess
psychological conditions. They looked into whether or not to include
love and sex addiction in the GSM. It is not
in the DSM, and the reason is because there are
no physical symptoms of the drawal.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
So there is a big.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
Difference between an alcohol addiction and the love and sex addiction.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Because I find that interesting too, because there's an I
think it was in an interview I was reading with
Elizabeth Gilbert where she was saying, it's not an exaggeration.
The closest I've ever come to both suicide and murder
was because of my addiction to another person and She
says people kill themselves and each other every day because
of relationship fixation and obsession. People routinely lose everything their health, serenity, jobs, money,

(14:52):
families because of romantic devastation and dysfunction, and still they
have trouble walking away. And I got to the end
of that sentence and I went, I am uncomfortable with
a narrative that says that domestic violence is the first
thing my mind goes to. There people who physically hurt
or endanger people they purport to love. I feel very

(15:15):
uncomfortable putting a love and sex addiction, but I label
on that.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
Don't think you have to like it's interesting your point, Amelia, Like,
of course you could say there's no physical.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Withdrawal, so therefore it can't be a real addiction.

Speaker 5 (15:29):
But we all know there's a whole lot of gray
area problem, red flag drinking and all kinds of substance
abuse that wouldn't necessarily fit that definition, right. And I
think it really rang bells for me because it's the
chasing of the high that I really understand from people
around me, and the obsession. It's like the way I
feel every time I see people who are always on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Going, I am more in love than I have ever been.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
This is unbelievable. This is gonna fast on, fast off obsession.
Limerens like, we all get.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
It, and why we're all so skeptical when we see
it too, because it feels dangerous.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
And what Gilbert was saying is that for her, after
Raya's death, what she realized was this big, glorious love
story narrative that she'd told herself and the world was true.
They were deeply in love and they had this amazing relationship.
But the code dependent because she says that women are
generally more comfortable with the word codependent, but it's the
same thing.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Really.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
She says, she knows lots of women are uncomfortable saying
sex addiction, but she says, I've used I learned early,
and lots of women do that. You can use sex
to control people and get people to do what you want.
And so you know, she thinks it's absolutely valid to
be in there. She's like, that was a big love story,
but we're just so comfortable with that narrative. We overlook
all the messes and the toxicity and the codependence. And

(16:46):
I get that anyway, when I interviewed her. I said,
now you are aware of this and living a sober life,
as she calls it, from sex and love. I said,
does that mean you have to stay single forever? And
she said no, but if I was going to date again,
because she's been on her own now after her dad,
she went on what she calls a binge, and some
people who are deep in this story would remember her

(17:07):
posting a picture of being with a guy not long
after Raya died and being like, I've found love again.
She now says that was very much a binge. Anyway,
when I said to it, do you have to stay
sober and single and alone?

Speaker 2 (17:20):
This is what she said.

Speaker 7 (17:21):
I'm not sure that anyone would recommend partnering up with me,
you know what I mean, Like if like, does anyone.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Really want to be my fourth spouse?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
You know, like, does.

Speaker 7 (17:31):
Anybody like does anybody really want to tackle this? Like?
I think it's a public service for me, honestly to
love people in a different way, and to love people
in a way where I can show up in truly
generous love, which I'm great at as a friend, and
I'm great at as a family member, and I'm great
at as a community member.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
But if that.

Speaker 7 (17:51):
Should change, then I've got this sober dating plan that
includes items like no two week long first dates, like
You're not going to go on a date with somebody
and two weeks later they're living with you, Like we're
not doing that. Like no opening bank accounts for people,
like no lavish gifts to try to seduce. No, no

(18:11):
going on big, glamorous, romantic trips with someone who I've
only known for a month, because I've got to stay
in reality and make sure that, like anyone can fall
in love with someone on a tropical island, we have
to see whether this actually works in the real world.
And no constant texting between dates, because I can get
sucked into that and lost in that, and I have
to go like if I'm going to go on a date,

(18:32):
I have to come home afterwards and I won't see
you again for a week. Because I need to remember
that I love my life. If I need to remember
that I have friends, that I have a dog, that
I have a career, you know, all these things that
I throw away when I fall into desperate obsession and
fixation on somebody, I've got to hold onto. So that's
a plan that's in place.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
So apparently that's another sign as well that you might
be someone struggling with love and sex addiction. In some
of the articles I read about it, if you're someone
who goes through a periods of going I'm not dating dating,
I have to go completely stone cold not see anyone.
That feels like the only way you can take control,
because you know you can't half do it.

Speaker 6 (19:12):
I guess what I'm struggling with is that by using
the word addiction, she's then sort of like implying that
she needs a sort of recovery plan and that's what
she just has outlined to wholly hear, or an addiction
management plan. It makes me think of this essay that
was in The New York a couple of weeks ago
by Gia Tolantino, which was to coincide with the book release.
It was called Elizabeth Gilbert's Latest Epiphanies, and she makes

(19:35):
the point that Elizabeth Gilbert has become really a self
help writer, as you kind of gestured to it the beginning, Holly,
and what she's selling is not just beautiful writing. She's
got a ton of that, and not just a sort
of really compelling story, but also almost like tips for
how to live a better life. And by using the
word addiction, she's saying, I'm going to teach you how

(19:55):
to not make these bad decisions anymore. But maybe it's
just a matter of every decision you make trying to
make a better one, rather than having an addiction management plan.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, and I wondered too. I mean, I know the
book is very complex and goes in a lot of
different directions, and Holly so does your interview. But I
actually found the other strand of this almost more interesting.
And that was the theme of Caregiver Collapse, because she
talks about these feelings that she had towards Raya, and
she says, you know, basically I wanted to end Raya's

(20:26):
life or potentially and end my own. The vulnerability and
the lack of shame to put that down on the page,
which is going to outrage a lot of people already
there are reviews and people saying you've disrespected Raya's memory
by committing some of these things to paper. The reason
I really respect that is I think that will speak

(20:47):
to a lot of people. Not that people do it,
but the intensity of the caregiver relationship, whether or not
you call yourself an addict, the way in which your
boundaries disappear, the burnout, like I cannot imagine what it
would be to care for someone dying of cancer.

Speaker 5 (21:06):
I agree obviously one hundred percent, and that part of
the book is so powerful and so interesting. But it's
also very specific, like that particular example is very specific
to what they were going through. But what I really like,
I take all the criticism about Liz Gilbert being a
guru and all those things, but the honesty in all
of this, I just think is breathtaking Because admitting that you,

(21:29):
you know, when you fall in love with someone, you
try and control them again, is something that I know
a lot of people will relate to having had that
done to them, you know. And sometimes that looks like generosity,
and sometimes that looks like caregiving, and sometimes it looks
like whisking them away on holiday or whatever it is,
or texting you every minute or all of those things.
I just think is really really bold. I think it's

(21:49):
really bold to be able to say I recognize that
I am part of this, this is what I try
and do to people in the name of love. I
just really admire it. You know, when you listen to
those list of things that she says she can't do.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
Some of it, obviously is very.

Speaker 5 (22:04):
Unrelatable, like lavishing money on people and all that kind
of stuff is not stuff that we're doing. Buying range Rover, yeah, exactly,
she bought in Ray's last day, she bought a Rolex
and a Range Rover in the apartment and da da
da da da. But also I think that what's more
relatable though, for many people, is like texting all the time,
allowing yourself to be swept up in this idea that
this is it, this is real, and this time it's

(22:26):
going to be different, and this time it's going to
be different.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I just think a lot of us live our lives
like that.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
If this segment brought up any issues for you, then
there are some resources in our show notes.

Speaker 5 (22:36):
And if you want to listen to the interview, it's
on a No fil a special episode of No Filter
that dropped yesterday out Louders.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
In a moment we sat down with a Tarot card
reader to explore our curiosity and cynicism and of course
to get a cheeky glimpse into the future. We decided
to do something a bit different today and by way
I mean me. I forced us all to sit down

(23:02):
with a tarot card reader. A little while ago, this
tarot card reader came in. Her name is Evelyn. She
came into the office and she did readings and everyone
who saw her just went that blew my mind. That
was incredible. They had these stories that just went around
the office. So next time she came in, I booked in.

(23:23):
I'd never seen tarat card read it before. She drew
a card that said, your mum's having issues with sleep.
I didn't know she was having issues with sleep, I
asked her.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
She said, oh yeah, I am, Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, something about my brothers and conversations they were having
about something they were going to do together, something about
our holiday I was going on and where I was
going to go when my plans for the next twelve
months really spot on, and I ran out and I
went may. I saw this terrort card reader and she
is nothing if not common, And so when she realized
I loved it, she pushed the next person out of

(23:54):
the way went in also mind blown. So I decided
that we should get Evelyn in.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes she did. First, how did you feel about that?

Speaker 6 (24:05):
I felt fine about it, But then my feelings changed,
but set it up.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
So I was like, why don't we get Evelyn in,
tell us what's gonna happen in the future. You know what, guys,
we should just do personal readings and broadcast them to
the world.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Great idea.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
And I just saw this expressions on people's faces and
I was like, guys, I think this will be great content.
And so what we did is last week we invited
her into our studio. We asked a lot of questions.
We have some silly questions. We asked about the future
of the show, we asked about Maya, and then we
did have personal readings. Amelia, tell me why your feelings changed.

(24:39):
Had you ever seen a Tara I'd read it before.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
No, I hadn't.

Speaker 6 (24:41):
I've always been interested in it. It's obviously been around
for centuries. I mean, this must be something to it.
I felt fine about it. But then what really surprised
me is the day rolled around and Everylyn came in,
and all of a sudden, I started to feel incredibly anxious,
like in a way that I could not have predicted.
People could tell in the room that producers are just like,

(25:01):
are you okay? Like I was just I really clenched up.
I felt really tense.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Do you know why.

Speaker 6 (25:06):
I think it's because, whether or not you bully even it,
there's a possibility that this person is going to tell
you something about the future that you don't want to hear,
and that lack of control was really scary to me.
I just didn't know. You don't normally have a conversation
with someone where they could say anything about your life
and you just have to sort of nod and take

(25:28):
it because this is what's happening is predestined. So I
think it really brought up issues for me in terms
of my kind of control freak personality and being told
things that I maybe didn't want to hear. So I
actually said to her, can you not tell me anything bad.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
About the future?

Speaker 6 (25:41):
And She's like, oh, yeah, that's a very common request
and I can absolutely fulfill that.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
How about you, Holly, I feel like I tried to
get your boorday.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
I was definitely gay.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
I'm not necessarily a believer, and I'm also not necessarily
a skeptic. I've spoken on the show before about how
my late mother in law was a psychic, so that
opened my mind a lot too various possibilities of You know,
I guess I'm a gray area person, right, So I
was open to Evelyn, but I was trying to be
take it the grain of salt.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Did you get nervous too?

Speaker 2 (26:13):
You know what?

Speaker 5 (26:13):
She was so loved, which I think must be one
of the skills of people who do this kind of work.
She was very good at putting us at ease, or
at least because I went in very like boundaried in
my head. But within five minutes I was just asking
her everything. So when if anyone listens to my private reader,
I apologize and advanced.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
For that because she was very good at making me relax.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
I came out of there going, oh great, great, great,
But since then I've kind of chilled out about it
and gone some of that, yes, some of that.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
No, Okay, all right, it is time to hear how
a little session with Evelyn went. Today we have psychic
and Taro reader Evelyn Santorro with us. Evelyn, welcome, Thank you,
it's so exciting to be here today.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
Oh we are so excited to have you.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
I wanted to ask to begin with, how did you
get into taro? Where did the interest come from?

Speaker 8 (27:04):
It was very very young and growing up. I used
to love reading, and my family were avid readers. My
mum was very much into science and my dad was
into politics and history, and so we spent a lot
of time in old bookstores. And I was just gravitating.
I mean, in between Judy Bloom and the Babysitters Club,
I'd gravitate towards what is now known as the self
help section or the spirituality section, and back then was

(27:26):
known as the mystical or the occult. And I just
was drawn to these tarot carts and I'd pick them
up and look at them and then read. And then
after many many months, my mom came home with them
and said, this is something that you might want to
know more about or discover more about. And then we
just had someone in our neighborhood. I was growing up

(27:47):
in Argentina, so I grew up in South America. The
woman took me under her wing, and so she helped
guide me along for about four or five years, and
then she passed and then I continued the journey on
my own.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
So that's how I started.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
And do you think that it's learned or is there
something innate? Like do you feel as though even that
instinct you had to gravitate towards it. Is it something
you feel like you've always had.

Speaker 8 (28:10):
Perhaps, But I think everyone has something. I think we
all have some sort of intuition. And for me, the
tarot is just a tool that taps into something that
then unlocks some answers. For others, I know people who
might be able to read your coffee cup, for example,
or they might do pal mystery or pick up a
bit of jewelry and give you information based on that.

(28:32):
But for me it was the tarot. But I really
believe everyone has something that's in them already. It's whether
you pay attention to it or not.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
How does taro work?

Speaker 5 (28:42):
Like basically, if somebody comes for a reading and we're
about to do that, how does it work?

Speaker 8 (28:47):
So when you come for a reading, what usually would
happen is the way I do the reading is I
ask your date of birth and then pick up the
energy around your date of birth, which will give me
what's going on for you at the moment. So the
taro is a bit of a storytelling tool. Where have
you come from, where are you at the moment, and
where are you headed? And what will bubble up first?
So we do a general reading until you pick ten

(29:09):
cards and.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Your general reading.

Speaker 8 (29:11):
It's as if the universe gives you what you want
to know and a little extra of what you may
be ignoring. So it's like, well, I'm here to know
about love well, but there might be something more about
what direction you're going in your career, for example, or
you're taking a trip, or there's a baby coming or
something like that, and then you can ask any questions.

Speaker 6 (29:30):
What happens if you pull bad cards. That's what's always
sort of scared me is the prospect of what if
I hear something I don't want to hear, how do
you manage that.

Speaker 8 (29:40):
I've had experiences with people who would come in and
are very fearful, and so usually you can ask that
you can say there's something that you're scared about hearing today.
Usually it's about people departing close ones or if there's
an illness or something like that. But usually people come
in and say, I just want to know. I want
to know. People curious and that's why they seek a reader.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
There's ethics around if you pull a card and it's like,
you know, especially death, I mean, that's the biggest question
that people often have. You you have boundaries around whether
you will communicate that people or not.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yes, definitely, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
And so do you feel like people have the right
to know that or you kind of hold it back.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
It depends on the client.

Speaker 8 (30:21):
So There'll be times where someone will come in and
I'll say something like there might be some sad news
coming on this side of the family or a friend,
and probe a little on whether they're open to hearing,
and if they're not, then I just sit back. It
all depends on how well you know the person. So
I have clients that I've known for many, many years
and others that are brand new. So it's tough. It's

(30:41):
a tough territory.

Speaker 5 (30:43):
Does everybody kind of want to know the same things?
Like what are the most common questions you get asked?
And then what are some of the more unusual questions
you've been asked.

Speaker 8 (30:51):
Look, I've been doing professional readings for a long time,
since I was twenty two. The main ones are the usual,
the love you know, will I meet my other half?

Speaker 4 (31:00):
Will it go well? Health career?

Speaker 8 (31:03):
But then things have changed, I think so in the
last ten to fifteen years there's been more of a
final push on things. Trips are always a popular one.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Where am I going this year?

Speaker 8 (31:13):
Am I able to get away? Will I have a holiday?
I guess the most unusual unusual things. I've lost something,
can you see where it is? I had someone come
into the Mind, Body Spirit Festival a few years ago
and said, I just want to know where I've left
the remote control. I've tired the whole house apart.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
I can't find it. Where is it? Is it in
the kitchen?

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Is it here?

Speaker 8 (31:37):
Is it there? And I don't know if she ever
found it?

Speaker 2 (31:41):
So you didn't know where it was.

Speaker 8 (31:43):
So I told her where I thought it was. So
we looked at the cards. She said, Okay, I'll go
back and have a look, but she can come back
to let me know.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
So no idea.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
What are your three favorite cards? What cards do you really.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Like to draw for people?

Speaker 8 (31:55):
So there are three fantastic cards out of the seventy
eight to either start with or end with. And that's
the World, which is a fabulous card. It means completion
or it means that your goals have been realized. The
other is the Magician. So if you have a challenge
coming up, the Magician finds many different ways for you

(32:15):
to get out of that problem. And to solve that problem,
and it can manifest people coming into your life to
help you with that issue. And the other card is
the Sun. The Sun is absolute positivity. It's a lovely card.
It means a period of happiness, usually after a very
long period of sadness or feeling of the loss of

(32:35):
not really knowing, of not having the right information or
the tools to move ahead with whatever it is you need.
So those cards are fantastic. They're resolution cards.

Speaker 6 (32:44):
How does what you do extend into your everyday life,
Your ability to tap into your intuition in this way
when you're not pulling cards for people, how does it
affect how you live your life?

Speaker 1 (32:54):
It's really interesting.

Speaker 8 (32:55):
So I've been in the corporate world for a very
very very long time. Tara was always something I did
on the side as a weekend thing just to keep grounded,
but it often seeped into my everyday life in intuition
with the people that I work with. It ruined a
relationship I had with a lovely psychologist. Well, I was

(33:17):
seeing a psychologist during a really hard breakup. So it
was a divorce, it was awful divorce, and so she
was helping with communication after separation and so one day
she was talking and I started to go off into
a bit of a trance and saw an image of
her hugging a male and crying. And then I stopped
and I remembered she had said to me the year

(33:37):
before I saw her for three years that she had
lost her mother in law, and so I thought, oh,
this must be me tapping into their grief. It must
be her husband. And so I said, oh, how's your
husband doing the loss of his mum, And then she
just blurted out that the husband had left her, that
he finally could live his life freely, and after thirty

(33:58):
three years they'd been living a lie. So it all
just came out. And so suddenly the relationship of counselor
or psychologist patient, yeah, it crossed that boundary. So we
could no longer cont you knew that relationship, and I
had to see another psychologist.

Speaker 5 (34:13):
That yeah, okay, we have some questions about our office ghost,
don't we.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
Yes, we do.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Okay, so you have come in. And before you came in,
there were people in the office who were here when
we were doing the office move, and they went, there's
some weird stuff happening. And then you came in and
we had a few questions. What did you sense when
you came into the office?

Speaker 8 (34:34):
A heavy feeling in three different spots of the office.
So the office is quite a lovely, cheery place, especially
in the back area. There's a lot of creativity where
somewhere near that place called the Lemonade.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Room, yep, that's us where they're there.

Speaker 8 (34:49):
That's a fabulous spot. But then there are other spots
where I'd walk around and that I'd feel different things.
And it wasn't just because of the building. There were
different things going on for different people, and I could
separate out what was there because of the person. But
this was a different sense. It was the sense of
something that shouldn't be here, needed to transcend and move on.
But it's still stuck. And that's in the kitchen, it's

(35:11):
in that little office space and for Mia and in
your other studio.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I mean, people are now kind of looking out for
things and experiencing certain things. But what should people do,
Like are we meant to encourage this like ghost to
move on? Do we say hi to her when we
walk in in the morning, Like what would you recommend
you invite it to move on to where it needs
to be so if it's a she and if you
named her.

Speaker 5 (35:42):
Yes, because this is a female, mostly female workplace. But
you're right, like, there's no, we don't know that.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
We don't we don't, we don't know that.

Speaker 8 (35:51):
Yeah, so you could definitely ask her to go where
she needs to be gently in a nice way. Sometimes
they're just stuck, not knowing how to move on, why
to move on, or feeling like they haven't resolved something here.
There's that, but they will only go if they want to.
It's not like we have any power to really do
anything on that.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
I had an additional question about Taro in that it's
about the president, it's about the future. Can you connect
with a lot of people, I imagine, go at times
of grief if they've lost someone just Taro also allow
you to connect with people who have passed.

Speaker 8 (36:24):
I think that happens not through Taro, but through the person.
So if the person has mediumship, I've connected with people
that have passed very rarely, but that's because I'm not
a person that goes after that contact.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
I know that there are people who.

Speaker 8 (36:39):
Love to go to mediums and they will say, Okay,
I'm here, let's see who comes through I'm not one
for that. I think that if the person comes through,
it's for a specific reason. There's an unresolved issue, there's
a message of comfort because you're going through something huge
on this side, and maybe that message is for you
to continue to.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Resolve whatever it is you need to.

Speaker 8 (37:00):
And move on. But it isn't something that I would
seek or would want from my clients.

Speaker 5 (37:07):
Can I ask you what we're about to do? Someestion
for the outlauders, for each of us. But there will
be some outlouders listening to this, Evelyn, who are like,
what a load of nonsense?

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yes? What a load of tosh?

Speaker 4 (37:17):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (37:17):
And you must get that quite a bit right, Like
what do you say to the skeptics, Like is this
the sort of if you believe, then you believe? And
if you don't, then why are you worried about it?
Like how do you handle that?

Speaker 7 (37:27):
No?

Speaker 8 (37:28):
I think it's good to be a skeptic. I think
that's great because we should be this way with everything
in life. When you meet someone and you fall in love,
you need to have that caution, don't you. I mean,
you don't just rushing to everything. It's the same sort
of thing with this I mean, when you're going to
see a psychic or whoever, you need to go with
caution and take things with a grain of salt. It's

(37:49):
the same when you go and ask for financial information,
show me the evidence. I guess, right, So someone will
say to you, I'm great, I'm going to make you
a million dollars follow my financial advice. Well, show me
your portfolio. What have you done for other clients? I mean,
this is the same thing in terms of being skeptic
because of the subject matter. Is there something out there?

(38:10):
I don't believe that. I guess that's up to each person.
I've seen a lot of things that I can't explain.
I can't say that I'm not a believer, but I
can't say that I'm one hundred percent believer. And I'm
going to go out and evangelize and convince others either.
Everyone has their own journey, Thank.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
You so much. So are we going to pull some
cards just for it?

Speaker 5 (38:30):
Like?

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yes, questions from now.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
We've got a few sort of silly light questions that
we're going to start with that are specific to ask
in the out louders. Why don't Holly do you want
to go first?

Speaker 7 (38:40):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (38:41):
So, what do I need to do? Evelyn?

Speaker 5 (38:43):
So these are questions, so we're not going to get
heavy in this one.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
That's for later.

Speaker 5 (38:48):
That's for later. These are some questions that I know
the out louders want to know. Okay, what should I do?

Speaker 8 (38:53):
So you need to shuffle the cards, think of the
out louders. Their fate is in your hands.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Very grateful to the out Louders. Not a very good shuffler,
as you can see. That's good no Vegas blackjack for me.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
So what do we need to what's your question?

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (39:12):
So one of the first, very important questions. I'm famous
in the out loud world for being a bit obsessed
with the royals. Oh Am, I ever going to get
a jar of Megan Michael's jam.

Speaker 8 (39:25):
So I need you to spread those out, all of them. Yes,
and let's pick three. I need you to think of
the jam.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
Okay, I'm visualizing the jam. I actually tried to order
some last night. The raspberry was all gone. There was
only marmalade, and then they wouldn't ship it here anyway.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
Okay, Okay, Now does she pick pick three?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Pick three?

Speaker 8 (39:46):
Which ones are calling to? Okay, let's see which ones?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Do I turn them over or do you turn them over?

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Hand them over less?

Speaker 8 (39:54):
Let's see, so we've got the full.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Oh god, that's not a surprise.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
The fool is.

Speaker 8 (40:00):
First, the Queen of Wan's and the moon. You are
going to get a jar of jam, but the moon
shows me that it isn't the one you want. So
you're going to be a little confused with the choice
you're going to be given. It could even be one
that is new. It could be a type of.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Mistraw you're going to get Aprico. Yeah, it could be one.

Speaker 8 (40:23):
It could be the one that hasn't she's releasing new basis. Okay,
So it could be one of the ones that you
haven't heard of yet because there's more information coming. But
Queen of One's, you will get it. It just won't
be the one you're expecting.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
And where does the fall?

Speaker 8 (40:40):
The fall is the start of a new journey. So
this is the very first card of the seventy eight
and the reason why the fall is jumping off a
cliff like that is taking a leap of faith. So
you're going to make connections, connection with her and grab that.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
Jam maybe in the UK.

Speaker 6 (41:01):
In her eyes right now, I feel so.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
I'm going to ask a bit of a juicy out
Loud great myself, Mayor and Holly have been hosting out
Loud for a lot of years. We've been working together
for ten years, and we've got Amelia and m who
are also our hosts. And I have just a broad
question about the dynamics and the relationship and what you
see in our future as a.

Speaker 6 (41:28):
Show, okay, And can I piggyback on that and ask
do you prefer yes? No?

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Or is it okay to ask something no? No, that's it?

Speaker 7 (41:35):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (41:36):
All right?

Speaker 4 (41:37):
So I picked three cards? Okay oop, see.

Speaker 8 (41:40):
So really think about that as bad as shuffling as
I am.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
She's spreading them out.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Oh that's a good card.

Speaker 8 (41:48):
You said that was a good card, right, it's a
great card. Oh that's a great cud.

Speaker 4 (41:52):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (41:52):
So the Queen of Swords, you do have a great
dynamic between you, but there is someone here with a
feeling it's like you need to lift their confidence or
there's a feeling there's imposter syndrome going on with one
of you, one of your people. However, one that's resolved,
you've got the world. It'll go very very well between you.

(42:14):
So the world is that what I was saying before
that excellent realization. And the Night of Wan's is expansion
to other places, otherlands, other things.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Oh Loud's going global.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Yeah, oh I love there.

Speaker 8 (42:28):
It's very good, It's fantastic. But there's something here that
needs to just be resolved. So maybe just take on
that power and yeah, an.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
Issue with confidence maybe yes? Yeah, right, okay, I like
that one a lot, thank you.

Speaker 6 (42:41):
So yeah, I'm feeling in for me and I've discovered
recently there's a WhatsApp group that the main hosts are
on and I'm not in it. Oh and my first
question is will I ever be added to it? And
I kind of think I know the answer that I
kind of want to have them hear it and sit

(43:02):
with their discomfort. Oh dearly thinking about this WhatsApp group
and all the links I'm missing. Yep, I can see
it in my mind's eye.

Speaker 8 (43:14):
See ah, the kind of mystery, the Queen of cups
information being withheld Ace of ones. Okay, so Ace of
Ones is You'll definitely be added to the group. So
this is you realizing your goal.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
See but the.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
World in your hand. I finally have what I wanted.

Speaker 8 (43:31):
The Nine of Ones is You've made a mountain out
of a mold.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
It wasn't that great? Comfortable with Queen of Cups and there.

Speaker 8 (43:44):
So Queen of Cups, she's the holder of secrets. So
usually when the Queen of Cups appears, it's because you're
yet to discover something. So there's information being withheld and
you're about to discover information, and that's you there, Ace
of ones. The goal coming through great WhatsApp.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
That's good is how quickly Ameliar exits.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
Once she's joined.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
It's not an interesting chat. It's just me as sending
links that Holly and I like.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Which I probably.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
Fantastic card.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
I have one last question, which is I would love
you to pull three cards for the out loudest for
the people who are listening.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Is it possible to do that?

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Then?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Tub like pick each maybe because represent.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
I think I think that would be best.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yes, do you want to grab the cards? Jesse or Amelia?

Speaker 1 (44:35):
I'm happy, Oh yeah, you better do this.

Speaker 4 (44:37):
Yeah, I'll do as a host special shuffle.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Because I wonder that sometimes sometimes I'm on TikTok and
I see someone doing a taro reading and I'm.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Like, is that how it works?

Speaker 7 (44:48):
Like?

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Do you have to be in a room with someone like,
how do you find do it on zoom?

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Ah, so it's not necessarily about the energy. That's interesting.
And I have one more question too, are your cards?

Speaker 5 (44:59):
Are these cards very particular and important to you, this
particular set of cards. Yeah, so the Taro reader, you
will have your cards, your cards.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
Let's go like this and we'll all pick one.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
This is for you a lot out louders, not for us,
and we'll just find out what.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Your vibe is.

Speaker 8 (45:16):
Oh wow, so you've picked very good cards. Seven of Cups.
So this is all about their life and the life
path and the King of Cups is all about sentimental things.
So the out louders now are going through a time
of great sentimentality sensitivity. Anything to do with whatever they're
listening to will really affect them. So that's the King

(45:38):
of Cups.

Speaker 7 (45:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (45:39):
There's lots of energy around water signs in particular, So
if you're an out louder that's a Scorpio, a Pisces,
or a Cancrian, this would probably really affect you because
that's the card that represents them. The other thing, too,
is Amelia's picked a great card for the out louders
so there's great news coming for these guys in the

(45:59):
next two weeks. So I don't know, you might have
a great update for them on the show or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yes, that's the excitement, all right, two weeks. We're going
to be looking out for it. We'd love to ask Evelyn.
So Maya is taking a few months off and she is,
which is very unusual for her, Which is very unusual.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
She's taking a bit of long service.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Leave the out louders. They're worried about me because they're
not hearing from her nearly enough. And I think we
all want to know how things are going, Okay, what
the future holds for her in the next few months,
like she kind of had plans to travel to do
some work projects. Like what do things look like for
her over the next few.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
And if you feel any Copenhagen.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Vie, Yes, whether she's going to go or not go,
we're very curious. Shall I pick the car?

Speaker 8 (46:50):
Yeah, let's pick for her, but we've got to think
about her. Yeah, okay, so we'll start with three. So
what I can see for Mea at the moment is
she doesn't really want to hear about anything. So that's
her kind of protecting her space. See she's covering her ears.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Wow, she hates what we're doing.

Speaker 8 (47:10):
So there's a real shutting herself off from everything. Although
she's never been that like, she's never been as disconnected
as now. So this is leads into the next card,
the Chariot, which shows an internal discomfort for her during
this time. So while she is shutting herself up and saying,
I don't want to hear or listen or know what's

(47:33):
going on. And it may not even be work, it
may be other things that are going could be things
going on in the media or anything else. There is
a discomfort and so she will be working through that.
And that's the Chariot, and it's a fantastic card to
get because that actually means a lot of growth.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Through discomfort, we grow.

Speaker 8 (47:52):
And then she has the card of strength, and Mia
will be back and stronger than ever. And so her
cards are quite good. Can you pick another two for me?
I just want to see if that travel pops up.
I mean, we're doing a very quick, short version of
what you would normally do for some one's reading.

Speaker 6 (48:11):
No.

Speaker 8 (48:11):
Look, I see, wow, the Hermit card. She's really taking
this time to be on her own. To grow, to
think about what she needs, and to try to focus
five of swords. You'll see the angel here in this
card is cautioning to stay still, to contemplate, and stop
being such a person that rushes around and tries to

(48:32):
fix everything at once.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
That doesn't sound like me.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
That's amazing, that's amazing, very very interesting. I think that
we don't tell me and we watch how the future
pans out under the next few weeks.

Speaker 4 (48:45):
And months, but she won't listen anyway.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Out ladders. We can't wait to see if those predictions
resonated with you. And look, I am I think quite
a logical science research person, but there is something I
don't know what it is about this year where I
quite like leaning into the unexplainable, Like I wouldn't change

(49:13):
decisions I make or put all my stock into it,
but I just it weirdly makes me feel I kind
of like the idea that the future is set and
I don't have to worry too much. We could have
spoken to Evelyn for ours, and in fact we maybe did.
We had one on one Tarry readings with her, and
predictably things got quite personal. In fact, what we did

(49:34):
is that we all left the room for each other
so that it could just be us and one producer
and now the outlouders and all the out louders of course,
and interestingly, the first card she picked for each of
us is really revealing, like it said something about our
current frame of mind. What we're going to do is
share those readings as subscriber episodes next week. And if

(49:54):
you want to get in touch with Evelyn, she's in
high demand because the moment the her office has her
on retainer.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Now she just comes in every day.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
She is on Instagram and we will pop a link
in the show notes and out Louders, I would love you.
It's a Friday, Let's have a little bit of woo.
I would love the outlo is to grab to jump
into the Facebook group and share what Tara card readers
have told them yes and if they came.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
True and just your best stories.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
I love that stuff so much.

Speaker 6 (50:22):
After the break, some gripping true crime, X rated, bread making,
and a whole lot of ham are recommendations this week.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Truly run the Gamut.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Follow the link at the show notes.

Speaker 5 (50:40):
To get us in your ears five days a week,
and a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

Speaker 6 (50:52):
Vibes ideas Atosphere stopping casual, something fun.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
This is my best recommendation.

Speaker 6 (50:59):
It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
weekend with some of our best recommendations.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Jesse, what have you got?

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Okay, I'm going to go first. I cannot believe we
have not talked about.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
This documentary yet.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
It is all over Netflix, Unknown Number, the high School
cat f Oh.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
I've seen that. Okay, explain what it is.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah, all right, So it is very Netflix in the
way it's made. People will understand that. But the story
is wild. The setup is that there's a teenage girl
named Lauren, and Lauren is it in a relationship with Owen.
They're like fourteen, right, And as soon as they start dating,
she gets these weird messages from an unknown number. They
start to get pretty pretty threatening, as though the person

(51:38):
sort of wants to be with Owen, and they get
more and more persistent, and they end up spanning more
than a year. And the weird thing about the messages
is that they contain details that only someone very close
to her would know. So it's often like something that
happens in class, or what she's wearing, or really deep insecurities,
and so all the parents take it to the school

(51:59):
and the school goes is it this classmate or this classmate?
At one point they wonder if it's Lauren herself. And
it gets so bad and like so sexual and almost
violent some of these threats that the FBI gets involved.
And it's quite tech savvy what this person is doing.
It's not just an unknown number, but it's like they're
putting it through a computer that generates a different number.

(52:20):
So you block that number and there's a new one, right,
and even Owen and Lauren break up. The next person
Owen see it starts getting these messages and the twist
of this documentary, what everyone's talking about is who is
behind it?

Speaker 6 (52:33):
But do we actually find out? Because I'm annoyed by
Netflix documentaries that leave me hanging.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Yes, I hate that when it's basically like with theories
and I'm like, no, no, no, theories. Oh we find
out and it gets deep and once you watch.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
These people like cooperating, yes.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
All of them, all of them are being into like everyone,
and so once you watch that documentary, which you will
just have a lot of feelings about. There is then
an article in the cut, which is a long form
feature about this that was actually written before the documentary
that gives you even more details about very small town,

(53:09):
the suspicions this sounds so they thought it was.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I wonder if it's number one on Netflix, right? You wonder?

Speaker 4 (53:15):
It's so good?

Speaker 3 (53:17):
So you have to go and read that too, And
if I watch it too, Can we talk about it
this week? I think we have to because I can't
stop thinking about it.

Speaker 6 (53:25):
I've got actually another kind of true crime thing. This
is on Disney and it's a show called The Twisted
Tale of Amanda Knox.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
I saw that and I wondered if i'd reach peak
commander now.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
And I know all that story.

Speaker 6 (53:37):
So I actually have a really bad memory. And the
best part about that is that true crime documentaries are
always super surprising. So remember American Crime Story, OJ Simpson
literally had no idea if he would even be found
guilty or not, saying at the television as the plot
twists unveiled. So maybe you need to take this recommendation

(53:58):
with a grain of salt. But this is an extraordinary
case let me explain to the one person who doesn't know,
like I don't. It happened in two thousand and seven.
Amanda Knox was an American student studying in Italy in Puglia.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
And Julia.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
Julia, and she spent years in prison after she was
wrongfully convicted of the murder of her British roommate. And
this is based on her memoir, so it's very much
from her perspective. But it's sort of in that genre
of like when you get caught up with law enforcement
in a foreign country and how scary that is and

(54:37):
you don't even understand what the police are saying to you.
I put Bridget Jones two in that same category, and
it's just really terrifying, and it looks it's not perfect.
In fact, it's got some really weird stylistic decisions. On
the night the murder took place, Amanda was with her
Italian boyfriend watching the movie Amelie. Was that grow that
we are liking, well done good, I'm glad and the

(54:58):
whole show is weirdly and whimsically done in the style
of the movie Emlie, which I know is super weird,
but I do like em Lee, so I guess that's fine.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Sometimes you've got to kind of mix up your true
crime story.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
I think it's because a lot of people probably do feel.

Speaker 6 (55:14):
Like they know the story very well, and it's it
is a very stylistic retelling, I would say, so I
have been really engrossed in it.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
It's a series, not one.

Speaker 6 (55:24):
It's a series, and it's one of those ones where
they're dropping week by week, so it's sort of old school.
So it hasn't actually even finished yet, but lots of
twists and turns are very tense.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Maybe I will give that a go. Actually, I'm looking
for something.

Speaker 6 (55:35):
If you're looking for true crime with a twist of
Emily Holly, what have you got.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
No true crime from me? You'll be surprised to hear.

Speaker 5 (55:43):
So I know that no one is watching my friend
Megan's season two of.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
It's not even on my Netflix.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Like when I turn on Netflix, it doesn't even acknowledge it.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
It knows you too well.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
Yeah, it still really upsets me that this show is
not called as Ever Megan. It's like or even this
is Megan now discussed brand disaster because it's called with
Love Megan, right, which come on, just get it up.

Speaker 6 (56:07):
It's actually two sign ups, Love Megan and as ever Meghan.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
That are two ways of email.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:13):
Anyway, she made as we've discussed on the show before
she made the second season, when she made the first
season of the show, it's the lifestyle cooking show. I'm
not recommending the whole thing, but i am recommending if
you've had a hard week, if life's just.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Been a little bit shit.

Speaker 5 (56:28):
This week watched the last episode, episode eight with Now
I'm going to get schooled on my pronunciation.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Spanish isn't my strength. I'm not doing that.

Speaker 5 (56:39):
Jose Andres soundly, so he's a really big deal Spanish chef.
And he's also the guy who started World's Central Kitchen,
which is an amazing organization that goes into disaster areas
and war zones, and he's started this organization basically sends
chefs in and they set up kitchens and they cook
meals for people, and they employ local chefs to do it.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
And it's a.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
Really really great course. They're in Gaza at the moment.
They've got an aim to serve a million meals a day. Anyway,
that's not what it's about. What it's about is that
Jose comes to Meghan's fatsy house that isn't really a house,
and his vibe is so amazingly strong.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
Does he make something yummy?

Speaker 5 (57:21):
They make a Spanish feast for the crew because it's
the last episode.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
That's nice.

Speaker 5 (57:25):
So for the whole eighty people crew of Megan's show,
none of whom acquite as glamorous as Meghan because they're
not ordinary people. But they're allowed in this episode to
eat oysters, to eat lobster, to drink kava, which is
like Spanish proseco out of a tea potty thing to
have a good time.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Well it's not a.

Speaker 5 (57:43):
Teapop, but apparently it's a traditional Spanish thing that looks
like a teapot and you teep it up like this
and the bubbles going to sound, and he tries to
a bit Meghan to do it, but she's not gonna
because on camera.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
That might and also she's wearing white linen exactly.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
He is such a vibe.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
He makes her like relax and she becomes quite cool,
and I just love it.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
It's such a good episode.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
So you don't want to watch the whole season, but
if you've had a hard day, just go watch the
Walking vibe. That is Jose Andress loosen Megan up over
some very good pay hour.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
That's all about.

Speaker 6 (58:17):
But we were told there was going to be something
sexy here. This doesn't sound that sexy.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
We need to talk about them with our ice trailer.

Speaker 5 (58:24):
Oh yes, So just for everybody to know this, this
is a week of retractions from me. Remember how I
said Kate wouldn't go blond, and then she went blonde.
And then I said, I'm not on board with this
adaptation of one of my favorite books because Margot Robbie
is wrong. Jacober LORDI is wrong. The director Emerald Fernell
was getting a bit too saucy. I watched the trailer

(58:44):
full retraction. Emerald Fanell in her we should just trust
because look, it's not going to please the classics like this,
you know it clearly is a very generous interpretation and
just a warning like they aren't know happy ending in
that situation.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
That's fine, but that looks hot.

Speaker 5 (59:02):
Heaving bosom like literally the eggs the needing.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
A lot of need.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
We are you with me?

Speaker 6 (59:08):
No, look, I mean jacob A Laudia Margat Robbie are
the two best looking people in the world. I could
stare at their faces. They're Aussie faces forever. I'm into
it now, Holly, you convinced me. Let's all go with
our frozen cokes on Valentina.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
Loved it, Love love love, Out Louders, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
I've got it for listening to today's show, and our
fabulous team for putting this show together. Friends, don't forget.
You can also watch us on YouTube. Holly, if she
could speak, would say, I have on a pretty shirt now.
A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Devine, executive producers Emmeline Gazillis and Sasha Tannic.

Speaker 6 (59:44):
Our senior audio producer is Leah Porge's video producer Josh Green,
and our junior content producers are Coco and Tessa Bye Bye.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
And out Louders. If you have wondered, if you have
been sitting there going why have they not done an
entire segment on Gwyneth Paltrow's biography.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
Fabulous question.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
I'd been asking that for ages.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Yes, we have exciting news, just like I forced Taro
these two for Squinne. So yesterday's subscriber episode is basically
your cheat sheet. I didn't read the book but for
some reason, Amelia did, and she gives us a very
helpful breakdown everything we need to know, all of the headlines,
including a very interesting detail about what Madonna wrote to

(01:00:27):
Gwyneth as a teenager. So relatable, such good advice. You
can listen to that via the link in our show notes.
Shout out to any Mother and Mia subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way
to do so. There's a link in the episode description.

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