August 7, 2025 • 49 mins
Is anyone ACTUALLY a genius? We discuss some fascinating new commentary on the subject, including what the modern day genius looks like and whether they even exist anymore.
Also, there’s something off about a new viral social media influencer. Does it matter if no-one we’re looking at is human anymore? We've got some thoughts we want to share with the group.
And our recommendations, including the best broccoli you'll ever eat, Em’s surprising cosmic recommendation you need to do today, and a handful of gardening hacks from our veggie patch enthusiast.
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Recommendations
Em wants you to learn about the Lion's Gate Portal
Jessie wants you to try Magic Broccoli by Recipetin Eats
Holly wants you to check out the Le Sac Kneeler and Plant Labels from Bunnings
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women are
talking about on Friday, August the eighth. I'm Holly Waynwright,
I'm Jesse Stephens.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
And I'm Emmnham.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And here's what's on our agenda for today.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
Is anyone actually a Genius? A new book has a
lot to say on the subject, including what the modern
day genius looks like?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Does it matter if no one we're looking at, watching,
listening to is even human anymore? How to spot the
AI influencers.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
And we've got some recommendations including something comfy to wear,
a cosmic manifestation. Today's date is actually very important for that,
and Holly, you have an ultimate gardening huck.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Of course you do.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But first, there is a particular woman that we haven't
heard from in a little while. So she has a
blonde can I speak to the manager Bob? She has
a tennis bracelet that jingles when she points to people
I know, I know of whom is she has a
bit of a temper. Yeah, I'm talking about the Karen.
Do you remember the Karen?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
And then if we decide as a culture that it
was a little bit misogynistic because we couldn't identify the
male Karen.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Is that do we throw that Karen's amongst us?
Speaker 6 (01:28):
Did?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Yes, Karen's protested and they said absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
But I think it's entered the lexicon in a way
that can't be retracted. Like my kids talk all the
time about did you Karen them? Or did you get Karen? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So the reason we came to Karen and not everyone
named Karen is essentially a Karen. So it became a
meme of a name where Karen was given, usually to
a middle aged white woman who was described as entitled, demanding,
and casually racist. And yes, a lot of women was
like this has turned into a slur and it's very misogynistic.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
And it was used because that's a really important definition.
I think that it was being used against any woman
who was assertive at all. Yes, So if there were
as an instance of like I don't know, speaking or
asking for a refund or whatever, then it's like, is
that Karen or is that just a woman advocating for us?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And the reason the name Karen was chosen was because
it was a largely popular name, especially for the generation
to kind of late Gen X early boomers. So TikToker
Cassidy Lee posted a video saying it's time we find
the millennial version of a Karen, which prompted another creator,
Jessica Gallagher, to do a deep dive into popular millennial
names to choose our new Karen.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Here's a bit of her video.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
That Lisa, Jennifer, or Jessica. I'm guessing it's gonna be
Jessica because I don't know. I feel like Jessica, like
Jennifer's like jen seems nice, like Jenna's nice. She goes
by Jennifer, probably not that nice. Jessica will mess you up.
Jess is going to fight somebody if she gets angry.
So I feel like it's gonna be Jessica. I just
(03:01):
feel it. I'm sorry Jessica's out there, but like the
next Karen's going to be Jessica.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Jessica, are you Jessica.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
I'm not. I'm just Jesse.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I thought I.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Wondered about that because I never ever think of you
as a Jessica, never ever. Not that there same thing
wrong with Jessica's tore the Jessica's out there, but I
suddenly thought, it's Jessea Jessica.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
No, I'm not on the official bertificate. I'm just Jesse.
But I thought, this is America. What we need to
do for journalistic integrity here is work out. Because I
like their methodology, which is finding out the popular name.
I've kind of peaked millennial, so I went back and went,
all right, let's say peak millennial. Let's go nineteen eighty nine, right,
because that's sort of right in between. And what was
(03:41):
the most popular girl's name in Australia.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It was Jessica, although I also looked for Australian millennial
names that were big, and I also found Amelia and Mia.
So I don't know. I think we know Jessica show.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We all know Jessica, who fits a description, who could
fight someone if they need to. Also, it reminded me
of Lena Dunham's Too Much on Netflix, like Jessica was
her name, the main character's name, and I think that
was the most perfect name for that generation of women.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
That's so true. There's a feistiness to people who go
by Jessica. I do not mean that as a criticism,
but I do think that there's a bit of a fisiness.
I also wondered if Sarah knew a lot of Sarah's
and the other one. Every second girl at school was
named Laura, and so I think Laura could also be one.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I know what my generation is going to be? What
Maddie true?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
We sometimes in the Mama Mirror office we have up
to six Maddies just rubbing it out there.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
And they're not Madeline. They're not Madeline, they're not even mads.
They're all MADDI.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yes, it's all spelled differently. It's very hard to keep up.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Is anyone actually a genius?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (04:48):
Me?
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Do we actually believe in genius? Yes? M does? Who
fits a definition? And what do all of them seem
to have in common?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
We're all brown women? Sidebar.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I don't know if you noticed, but the last time
we talked about charisma and who's got charisma on the show?
And did you see that the out louders we're all
in the Facebook group saying Emily, I.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Just reported them. I reported them, and I locked and
deleted trolling occurring in this group.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I did will see a single one of those. If
you want to post them again and feel free to.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
And tag them specifically. British journalist Helen Lewis has just
published a new book called The Genius Myth, A Curious
History of Dangerous Ideas, and she recently sat down on
the podcast Honestly to present a sort of history and
critique of genius. Here's a little bit of what they
talked about.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
What is our definition of genius in the West today?
Speaker 8 (05:39):
Well, Samuel Johnson and his dictionary had a definition that
was a man possessed of superior faculties, and I think
that probably sums it up quite nicely. It's this idea
that there are some people who are just in a
kind of you know, class by themselves.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
One of the ideas that you talk about in your
book is that some of these people who we think
of as geniuses, some of these people who do exceptional things,
are largely or at least partially the result of timing
and location and luck.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
Paul Graham, who I think is one of the most
interesting and value thinkers, has this idea about the milanaise Leonardo.
Why is there no Leonard da Vinci but born in Milan?
And he says, because you don't just need Leonardo. You
need Florence, you need this incredibly fertile, creative city. And
I think that's very true. Elon Musk in Pretoria would
not be the richest man in the world. He needed America.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
So here's the crux of her argument. The West is
incredibly invested in this idea of genius. And we can
tell a lot about what a society values by who
it labels as a genius. Right, it's intrinsically exclusionary, and
it's often a license to behave badly. Yet we can't
give this idea up. We like to believe that there's
(06:50):
something innate about it, almost natural. Someone's born a genius,
and we elevate them into sort of something almost divine.
We also see genius as quite compatible with mental illness.
The genius often suffers a tragic death, maybe young, maybe
as a result of their own torturous mind, and we
all accept that there is often times a cost to
(07:11):
the people who love them. So she writes about how
genius has been perpetuated by great man history, which is
the idea that history is basically shaped by the story's
actions decisions of extraordinary men. She writes, we find it
intuitively easy to understand human size stories where someone does something,
whereas vague wafts of social change driven by multiple factors
(07:32):
might get academics excited but tend to leave everyone else
board to tears. I want to know how long did
it take you two to realize that the term genius
is entirely synonymous with men?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
And not that long?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Unfortunately, when I hear the word genius, even before I
knew we were doing the segment, I just saw the
word genius immediately. Albert Einstein just came up in my head.
And then it was always like the same type of
man who looked like Albert Einstein. I picture like a
man in some sort of like science gear with like glasses,
(08:07):
and he's white, and he's tall, and he wearing these
like goggles and he's doing some science experiments. It's like
it's always the same picture, and that picture is the
exact same through our generations.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And he's too busy brushes here,
too busy brushes.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
It's got a lot more.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Going on, Yeah, exactly. How about you, Holly, do you
think that genius is something that culturally we see as
reserved for men.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yes, but we also know there are so many structural
reasons for that, right, Like it's only relatively recently that
women were allowed to go to universities and be scientists
and all that kind of stuff. So you know, there's
a whole lot of very obvious structural things about that
that then also extend to all minorities everywhere, you know,
like colleges and universities were the preserve of the white elite.
(08:49):
You know, there were times in history where Jewish people
weren't allowed to go into universities there. So there's a
whole lot of very very structural, problematic history that leads
you to having this very narrow thing of geniuses. But
when I think about this, and when I was thinking
about this after we were talking about it, I'm interested
in creative genius, right because of course, like I stand art, right,
(09:11):
like when I say art, like reading music, whatever, in
a way that I don't understand science. So I was
thinking about creative genius and who gets labeled that also
mostly men, of course. But I think that we need
to move from the idea that someone is a genius
in the same way we need to like unpick the
idea that happiness is a destination rather than a series
(09:33):
of moments is that there are works of genius. But
whether that person is a genius and then everything they
touch forevermore is genius, I think is disproven. So I
think you could argue that like Hamilton, is a work
of genius. Right, Does that mean that Lynn Manuel Miranda,
the man who wrote it, is a genius? Not necessarily.
He's written a lot of other good musical songs, but
(09:55):
they're not all that good, you know what I mean?
Do you think that the Beatles were genius? It's like
Sergeant Peppers. You could argue that's a work of genius,
but not everything they did was great, and also they
needed the circumstances, the time, the partnership, the moment lift
to that level. I think about women now who are
operating on a very high level, as Taylor Swift a genius.
(10:16):
Is Oprah Wimfrey a genius for what she did, like
in changing the culture and the media, you know, like
it's beyond their genius because she made lemonade like or
is it that you can have moments of genius? I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
If the word genius can be applied to artists or
art specifically, because art is subjective.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
So I think with art, it's.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
More talent, right, And is it like everyone who's talented
also a genius or just because Hamilton was viewed by
millions and millions of people? Is that the reason why?
Speaker 5 (10:48):
I think it's it's just about the idea that there
is almost something divine or superhuman within certain individuals that
allows them to attain or create something greater than what
the average person can create. So like Beethoven or Mozart,
I think they're treated as whether or not you like
their music, you go I would consider them a genius.
(11:11):
And it's interesting that when we look at their stories
and the tragedies that befel them are really important parts
of their mythology, one hundred percent almost feels like it
equals the balance, Like we almost like our geniuses to
efface tragedy because we go, oh, okay, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
There's a cost.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
There's a cost, like the cost, Like I.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Disagree with the idea that you can't have artistic genius
because I don't mean a lot of people bought that record.
I mean it changed the game, right, Like if you
create a piece of work that literally becomes so influential,
it creates a movement, or it influences a generation. And
in the same way that what Jess is talking about
about how we like to think genius is divine, we
(11:51):
also like to think that that level of creativity is divine,
that you know, there was a moment in time where
this person was channeling this. And we love the narrative
of the tortured creative genius. You can list a million
of them. They have to die a horrible death, as
you say, Jess, usually by their on hand. And one
of the things that Helen Lewis talks about in this
interview that's she's like, cozy domesticity is not part of
(12:12):
the genius story, like it has to ruin you. So
Elon Musk, who she brought up in that clip and
is a very good avatar for how he consider genius
now is broadly considered to be a genius of some kind,
and his very messy and controversial personal life is almost
seen to be a part of that genius where you
couldn't expect a great man like that. And when I
(12:35):
say great man, I'm bringing a a certain amount of sarcasm.
And also I'm like talking about like the things he's
created and the things he's made. We also know now
that like the destructive side of that is huge. But
if you're just taking that on board, like you'd be like,
we couldn't expect a man like that to have a
boring like home life where to care for his fourteen Yeah, exactly,
(12:56):
Like he's about to not have fourteen children with lots
of lots of different people and have unconventional relationships. It's
part of his myth. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
So the tech innovator, Lewis argues, is the modern day genius.
And I think what we do in calling someone a
genius rather than someone who has created a work of
genius or was struck by genius, And I think the
idea of it being a lightning strike is a lot
better because I reckon the second someone believes they're a genius,
it's all downhill from there. Like I think that you should.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Never elon, must definitely definitely does.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
And because we've got this mythology I hear this all
the time, not just immediate but in conversations with people,
is that we will be talking about him, and women
in particular will be horrified by the fact he has
all of these kids who he doesn't appear to look after,
and he certainly doesn't have any kind relationship with any
of the mother's is enthusiasm for far right exactly. So
(13:47):
we excuse the fact that he's a bully, that he
exploits people, things that have happened at Tezla politics, and
how that's become a little bit of a mess. We
excuse all of that because we go, well, would we
expect a genius to kind of treat people nicely? Like,
we have a completely different criteria for him, And I
wonder if by that measure women will never get away
(14:08):
with that and would never get away with all the mess.
The problem with genius too is that I think that
once someone like Elon Musk is given that label, which
I think he's then internalized, is that we assume, or
he assumes, that a genius is transferable to all things.
So we don't even like to think that someone is
just a genius in one domain. We love the Leonardo
(14:28):
da Vinci idea that you're kind of this innovator and
you're this artist and you can invent things, and like,
you can do lots of things. So it's like Elon
then goes into politics and everyone goes, well, he's a genius,
and then like he goes and opens a new business,
and it's like he's a That's not how it works. Like,
some people are incredibly skilled at some things, but it
doesn't mean that your whole self is this remarkable, extraordinary
(14:53):
thing that can bestow success upon whatever you touch.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I think it also comes down to what genius goes
hand in hand with, and for me, it goes hand
in hand with popularity and opportunity and money. So similar
to the Mozart example, I feel like Mozart, but we
see him as a genius because he was the only
person doing that in his time, and now there are
so many Mozart esque people out who have perfect pitch,
(15:18):
who are developing amazing compositions, who if they were in
Mozart times, would be his direct competitor. But because there's
so many of them, we want to see genius as
like an exclusive thing where you can't have too many
geniuses because then you all just end up being like
the same pool of talent. You have to have one
genius who's like above.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
The rest of them, yes, and who tells a particular story.
So I was thinking about the movies I love the most,
often the story of a genius. Right, I love those
movies like a biopic that's Bob Dylan, that it's recently Elvis, right,
and Elvis existed and whether or not he appropriated or
was inspired by black artists is a topic of a
lot of historical conversation. But Elvis doesn't exist without the
(15:59):
black artists that came before him. We don't consider the
black artists genius.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yea, they don't consider Elvis genius. Who considers Elvis genius?
People his songs like he's performed, but the fact you
have to be the source to be the genius.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
But it's like your criteria for genius artist is different
from our criteria of genius.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
But I think there is a solid argument that, like,
you have to have created the thing. Elvis is charisma
plus opportunity, yeah, plus a moment in time. And he
was amazingly charismatic and good at what he did. But
he wasn't a genius. He didn't create it, you know
what I mean? So are genius is inventors to a point,
whether they're inventing, Like so, Shakespeare is widely considered to
(16:43):
be a genius. Right, and if he was just a
guy who was good at putting on other people's plays,
then that totally changes whether or not he's a genius,
you know what I mean. Taylor Swift is an interesting
example because she's now had a couple of decades of
sustained success of music that she's written that you could
definitely argue has influenced generations, has influenced the music industry,
has changed the game. No one ever suggests that Taylor
(17:06):
Swift is a genius? Have you ever heard anyone say
that Swifties like no who obviously would say that, but
the culture does not consider her to be so Kanye
West they say think that all the time. Yeah, even
though I mean not so much now obviously, because he's
veered so far into the most awful behavior.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
But I don't think all that. I think he's work
got worse.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Well, that's also true, but I think that there was
a level of behavior that was being excused because he
was a genius and his early albums and works of genius,
and then it became like you just can't so.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
You can't sep braid the art from the genius.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Well you can for a long time, but then I
think a line has been crossed, and I think that
you could argue that Kanye has but even before that,
people would call him a genius all the time, and
they wouldn't call Taylor Swifted genius.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So it is associated with men essentially, yeah, yeah, but
also like with the support that men get. Because I
was reading about Jeff Bezos and his divorce from his
wife and everyone was saying how much Mackenzie was going
to earn from this divorce forgetting that Jeff Bezos was
able to be Jeff Bezos because she managed and looked
after all of the kids, because she was driving him
(18:12):
everywhere while he wrote business plans in the car. So
does he get all the ownership for being that genius
because if he didn't have that support, would he be there?
Speaker 5 (18:21):
And that's what this book talks about as well. It
has a really interesting note written by Albert Einstein to
his wife which is basically like I mean, it translates
to basically, you my slafe, Like these men who achieved
such greatness needed someone or an apparatus behind them that
did all the other stuff. And like George orwell there
(18:42):
was that book recently written about his wife and the
genius that was maybe within them too.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Would we want to be a genius? Are you secretly
hoping that your daughter's a genius Jesse. I mean, obviously
she is. Yeah, we know that she is, but like,
would you wish genius on anyone one of the things?
Is interesting because you're talking about Mozart right earlier on,
unless I'm mixing him up with one of the other
men in weeks who were really good at the piano.
He was good from the minute he could walk right,
like there is.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
A belief prodigy. There's a prodigy?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Is he sat down at a piano and he wasn't
playing chopsticks like he was already going and so they
were wheeling him around Europe to play for kings and
like a freak show.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
So he was like a born genius.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Well that's the argument. But is that something you want?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
My instinct is to say no.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
But then secret hope is.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
But I'm thinking about talent, right and how there is
something so unknowable. I do not think that as human
beings we understand talent. We don't understand where it comes
from why, which is why some people have it exactly.
And there's this egalitarian view that we're all equal and
if we just did our ten thousand hours in practice,
we'd all be equal. And we know that's just not true.
(19:51):
There are some people that are born with such amazing talent,
and some of that gets realized due to luck, some
of it.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Does privilege and history and blah blah blah.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Yeah, and others will never know it because of those constraints.
But I do find something endlessly fascinating about studying talent
and knowing.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Where it came from.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Out louders, in a moment, does it even matter if
you're human anymore?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Out loud as, We have a listener dilemma and we
need your collective wisdom to help us and our partners.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
UI solve it.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Please.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Okay, So here's a problem from our listener. It says,
my best friend and I have been close for over
fifteen years. We've been through divorces, career changes, and raising
our kids together. We've always been brutally honest with each other,
which is why the situation is tearing me apart. She's
been with her partner for four years now, and they're
actively house hunting and discussing blending their family since they
(20:50):
both have kids from previous marriages. After her difficult divorce
six years ago, she often tells me how relieved she
is to finally be with someone who she can truly
depend on. Here's coming, Here's my dilemma. I was swiping
through a dating app late one night when I came
across her partner's profile. At first I thought it was old,
(21:11):
but one of his photos was from a friend's fortieth
birthday dinner last month.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Rookie move.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I recognize the restaurant and the watch he was wearing,
which she bought him. Do I tell my best friend
or stay quiet and hope she discovers it herself. Do
I confront him? What do you do next? This man
should be penalized for being stupid. He is not a
genius in a way.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Mozart's rolling in great.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
She has to tell this friend immediately. That's yeah, I
needs tell her friend immediately. I have been in this
position before, where it is someone I am simply not
close enough to. It's like an acquaintance, and you go,
I don't feel like I know enough details to just
throw you. Like if we were sitting around having dinner
and that was something we did all the time, I'd
probably tell you. But otherwise I just feel like I'm prying,
(21:58):
and I don't want you to think I'm getting any
glee from sharing this information, and would you tell.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
A friend so that they're really close friends. What she
does is she takes screenshots of the dating profile. She
either calls her friend or tells her in person, send
send the screenshots, and then gives her a little time
to sort out what she wants to do. Be there
if her friend needs her to be there, but also
give her space.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
And then check in in a few weeks.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I would need to be told over the phone because
I wouldn't be able to control my response. And I
don't want to be sitting there at a dinner when
the entrees haven't come out having a sob.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
This is a serious shit. They're about to blend their families.
You've got to go round there.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
You've got to sit to her cow that's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
You've got to not be in a public place. You've
got to go around there and be on and sit
on the couch and show her the pictures. And then
you have to allow her to do what she wants
to do with that information. She might say, oh, yeah,
like we've got an open thing, or like oh you know,
blah blah, like she might have reasons, and then you
also have to accept those But you're right, Jesse Is
it's only okay if you're close, Yeah, really close. Otherwise
(22:58):
it's not okay.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And I don't think in front of him straight away, No,
maybe a bit later.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Out louders, what would you do next? Share your thoughts
in the Mummere out loud Facebook group, and if you
have a dilemma, send it to us at our loud
at mummia dot com dot au. We love to hear
your dilemmas and we love to help.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Does it matter that the people we're aspiring to be
look like, create like be around these days are not
even people at all. Once upon a time, little girls
tortured themselves with the images of beautiful women in magazines
striding through fashion shoots with their long legs and their
oddly symmetrical faces, and we were, like, she exists. I
(23:36):
just didn't get blessed.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
With that question mark as to whether that person we
were looking at did exist.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, this is true. So and those women were photoshopped. Yes, right,
they were six foot tall, and they did have long legs,
and they were much more beautiful than us, But they
also were.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Touched up, they had a few more pause than it
looked like on the front page.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Of that magazine.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Then the influencers came first to static and then moving imagery,
and they were real, but they used filters, face tune,
that one that makes you look like you're always in
the sunset, all that kind of stuff, I call it
that kind of stuff. They use that. So they were real,
but they were like enhanced, and now they're just straight
up not real. There was a story last week that
(24:15):
we didn't talk about because we were sort of tossing
up this, well, have we ever really aspired to look
like real people? About the fact that Vogue could run
an advertising spread. It wasn't a Vogue fashion spread. It
was an advertising spread from guests that used an ai
model and stated that they did. And then this week
we met this woman called Mia on social media and
not our Maya. Just to be clear, Mia is very real,
(24:38):
Jesse tell us about Miya.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
Miya Zilu is an influencer. She has one hundred and
sixty seven thousand followers on Instagram and if you go
to her profile, if you were just scrolling through, you'd
think she was real. She's out and about, she's having dinner.
I think at one stage she might be at Wimbledon.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Like she's she's a wedding, she's at lunch, she's traveling,
she's like, I know real people whose Instagram fees look
exactly like.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Yes, there's one picture of her cat. The thing is
that Miya is not a real person, even in her bio.
It says ai influencer. There's this big pushback from influencers
from models. I'm a bit confused just to what she
is selling or if this is just something that agencies
approving they can do.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I think maybe she's selling the services of the YESI
agency you've made her.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Because from the model perspective, it's really interesting that you
used to have a shoot in a magazine to promote
your clothes, but now with e commerce you need so
many thousands of images that a lot of those brands
are saying we can't keep up. And the way that
that cuts costs is incredibly alluring when you would say
potentially also under eckle.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
So my daughter who looks lots of fast fashion, and
she's often showing me a picture. It'll be some you know,
far away round in place, but she'll be like, always
show me a picture and saying this dress that thing,
and the person is clearly not real. And the way
it works is you can take a flat lay picture
of your dress and then it can go onto an
ai model. These women are almost always unbelievably skinny. For sir,
(26:14):
look exactly the same white blonde. They all look like
Claudia Schiffer in nineteen ninety six, but like very skinny.
Whatever as it does me, yeah, as does me absolutely.
Then there's this band called the Velvet sundown On that.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Sounds like came up with a terrible name.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Well, the thing is is so this this was around
a few weeks ago too, and I didn't know what
to make of it. But then to play you a
little bit of one of their songs, right, this song
has way more than two and a half million streams
on Spotify.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Dust all the wind boots on the ground smoking the sky.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
Pease found rivers run rare, The drums were all slow.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Tell me brother, where do we go?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Raision?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
So they can create robots now that sound like they
smoked day.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Which is interesting. But yes, you look terrified that song.
I'm leaning right in huge.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And the thing is is the band have like loads
of imagery. They all look a certain way. They're sort
of like a big uous in their background. They're like
rugged and they look like they sound, and that has
millions of streams.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
I know that all music is iterative, but that sounds
so iterative. It sounds like four other songs.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
But so does most I know.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
But there's something about knowing how much was scraped in
order to artificially generate creativity that makes me feel nauseous.
I hate it.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
But why do you want to know?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Like, what would that change?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well?
Speaker 5 (27:53):
I think that there are two types of people right
when I and I actually think. This comes right back
to the genius conversation. When I consume something I love,
whether that's television, something i've read, a painting, I almost
always google the person. I really want to know about
the person because often I want to know what influenced it.
I have to know a little bit about their lives.
(28:15):
The random people I follow on Instagram that are just
from something I saw, Like even a musical. I'll go
to a musical and just become obsessed with the lead
and so to me, that music has no depth or
soul or resonance because there's nothing true about it, Like
there's nothing true.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Well, this is what's interesting and what I wanted to
talk about. Right, So that song has all these streams
and it went to number one, and that's why everybody
got upset. And then it turned out that one of
the things that platforms like Spotify and Apple Music of
fighting is fake streaming. Right, So robots are listening to
the robots. There are all these feeds that are being
screwed with by basically like AI bots, you just stream
(28:53):
stream streamstream, and lots of genuine artists feeds are being
infiltrated by this, and it's partly a ploy to be
able to gain the algorithms and all this stuff. So
we might be living in a world where the robots
are listening to the robots. I want to dig in
on your question, M was does it matter? Does it
matter that it doesn't exist? When? To be honest, looking
at her feed, I know a lot of real influences,
(29:15):
and some of them I actually know and I love
them to bits, but their feeds look like they're fake. Right,
So does it matter? That's my question I'm getting to
is does it matter?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think it matters in certain situations, like with the
fashion model.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
The one thing.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I really like that I felt like e commerce websites
were doing really well with fashion where they were starting
to show models of different sizes on their website. So
if I wanted to buy a dress, I would be
able to find a model who was kind of my size,
so I knew exactly how that dress would fit me.
And now if you have an AI model, it's not
even like seeing the piece of clothes you want on
(29:50):
someone who's not your size, but seeing that piece of
clothing look like something that fits a certain type of
body that is completely fake, yeah, to make it more
appealing to you. And then you get the piece and
you're like, what the heck is this? This is human different,
So that is like a very selfish reason. Obviously that
model is also taking over other people's and photographers jobs
(30:10):
and editors jobs. But with the fake Mia on Instagram,
the AI influencer, there's something so interesting about her profile
that I can't look away from.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
And I think it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Was the first AI model that I genuinely couldn't tell
was AI because and if you look really closely at
her photos and zoom in, she does have certain floors
like human floors, like there's this carousel where she's at
I think a basketball game and I zoomed in on
her shoes and her the skin around her ankles are
a bit red where her shoe would have naturally rubbed
(30:45):
against And it's like little things like that. There's a
photo of her with the band aid on her arm,
and it's little things like that where I feel like
we're going to be in dangerous waters, especially if she's
going to be starting to market products and things like
that as an actual influencer, because we actually don't know
the face behind of who's getting that money and who's
actually promoting that product.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
She even has feelings, right, there's a post on her
feed where she's being sad about the trolls and it's
like she's kind of pointing to the bad messages, which
is really interesting because again that's a trope that we
see real people doing in real life. So it's like
we are so predictable and memorable in the content that
we create and consume that the robots have just totally
(31:28):
got a sus right. They're like, this is exactly the
kind of post that an influencer in her twenties who
looked like me and was in Eurosummer would make and
would do. And it's true, like the wedding. I'm at,
I'm seeing her friends, I'm seeing like it's a whole world,
and I can't decide if it matters or not.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Oh matters so much, it's so grossly dystopian. The biggest
thing to me is the money the jobs, right, is
that it's not just the models that are getting replaced
for Vogue to publish them for Vogue.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Here's what's interesting, because let's remember it wasn't Vogue who
made no, No No, but they rablish it, which is in
a photo shoot. If you zoom out from the model,
you've got, like the person who gets this sandwiches. You've
got the photographer, the hairstylist, the makeup artist, so the
stylist for the clothes. You've got the photographer's assistant. You've
got the person who book the studio. You've got the
person who runs the studio, sits on reception as You've
got a whole industry around this industry as it were.
(32:24):
And it isn't the first time, obviously that humans have
lost their jobs to automation, but it is nothing. The
scale is so huge.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
It's at the loss of that artistry. And I think
you can look at certain things like even the music
or the image or the model and go, oh well,
it's not even that good. And to me, that argument's
completely redundant because it's going to get better and better,
like if we haven't read the best poem ever written
by Ai yet, like we'll get there, probably in the
next six months. But the issue of copyright makes me sick. Meya,
(32:55):
her face hasn't been drawn by someone. It is an
amalgamation of other people's faces who didn't get paid, like
you didn't even own your own face. So they've thrown
in all these faces. And there are all these arguments
that people are trying to make and it's like, no, no,
this is just like late stage dystopian capitalism when no
one gets paid anymore for any labor.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
I do agree, and I worry about what we need
people for it all anymore. But if you pull back
to these images, these influencers, the beauty standard, the band
if I like boring middle of the road rock music,
and I listen to that and I like it. I
just I'm always wrestling with the idea of like does
it matter that he's not writing about something real? Like
(33:37):
does it really I think about my kids, who on
their social media platforms that they're on. They at first
would be like, huh, look at this terrible AI, right,
but now they actively love AI content and they'll show me,
look at this amazing AI. Like they are entertained by
the things that AI can do, and they don't see
it as scary in the way that we do because
they don't maybe understand the scale, but also they don't
(33:59):
have skin in the game in that way that we do.
There's something almost amazing about it.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I think it's hard with kids particularly and how they
get influenced by AI, because I feel like when you're young,
anything that you indulge, whether it's like music or TV
or movies, comes with that added layer of education of
like seeing something and then finding passion for something and going, oh,
I could do that, I could write that book, I
could make a movie like that, I could star in that,
(34:27):
and then finding out that no, you can't because that
was just fake and now that doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
So how do you feel, m if you listen to
a song and you went, Okay, I love this song
and you're playing it and playing it and then you
learned it was AI, Like, does that undermine it for you?
Can you see a world in which your favorite song
was AI generated.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I can in the future. I can't write now because
I still think if I were to like a song
and then only after the fact find out it's AI,
I'd be super embarrassed. Yeah, and feel like I have
such basic takes. Why would you be embarrassed? Because I
think it comes with the layer of like you are
such a basic bitch, Like of course you would like that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
But I can see the appeal for and this is
depressing in itself, but the appeal for the people who
create this stuff, right, whether it's models, musicians, writers, anybody.
Humans are annoying. They have opinions, they have demands, they
want input. They might have a ten per tandrum theym
have a bad day. They might have PMS, they might
have addiction issues, they might be the deadline, they have dietaries.
(35:23):
Like they're annoying. Robots have no demands of you. And
I know I call them the robots, and I know
that's not what it is. And you can see why
that is so appealing to a business that's like, well,
I no longer have to think about auditioning models, dealing
with models. The model might be like I don't like
how I look in that way. I don't like or
the writer who's late, the writer who's like, that's what's sad.
(35:44):
We're like flattening the idea that anyone should have agency
who's creating a thing.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
I find the question of diversity really interesting. So diversity
has even been considered as a thing for such a
short period of time, right where if you were a
woman of color or you were plus size, finally you
got a job. Right now, if you want to virtue
signal your diversity, you can just change the color of
your model. Yeah, you don't have to hire any And
(36:09):
I seen that being reported in like in a positive
light that it's like, well, we've really increased the diversity
of representation in our fashion shoots like the fake Babe
get paid fad in her family. After the break, we
have some brilliant records. I'm breaking all the rules and
em has some advice about how to manifest.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma MIA's subscribers. Follow the link
in the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week, and a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
weekend with our best recommendations. Polly May is not here,
so I hear that you've gone a little bit roguod recommendation.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
So excited. Can you hear the joy in my voice?
Not that May is not here. I missed her course,
but it's given me free rain to do some gardening
wreckos worms involved, No worms involved. The thing is is
that gardeners around the nation are getting tingly because winter's
nearly finished and spring is a very busy time in
the garden.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
They're coming out of hibernation.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
I work upon Sunday morning. I already bored you with
what happened when I work up on Saturday morning. Welcome
to my Sunday. On Sunday morning, I woke up. I
had a message from a gardening friend who was like,
get to the plant stall now, because it's nearly freaking spring.
You need to get your stuff in. I'm like, I'm there.
That's so exciting anyway. So in the spirit of exciting
gardening time, friends, I've got two gardening wrecos both of
(37:47):
you are going to think I'm so sad.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
No, I feel I'm left out.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I don't even have a balcony.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I know a lot of this is me for a
long time, but one is for aneela. Do you know
what aneela is?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I absolutely how do you even ask me such a
Is it an instrument like a rake?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Anela like a it's Aneela is a comfy pad that
you put on the ground so you can.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Used to have one of those.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
No, no, but it's not because you're exactly you could
steal one from church. It's not just because of your
old knees. And sure the median age range perhaps suggests that,
but it's also dirt right, so like it's been raining
a lot where I live lately, So when I'm kneeling
down to get in my veggie beds and everything, I
get filthy. So you get a kneeler so that you
(38:34):
can put it down. And my one that I've got
that I'm going to recommend.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
But are you wearing your best white while your got it?
Speaker 7 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
But I just don't want to be covered and shit,
I don't want my needs to be wet and sogging.
Then I won't stay down there as long get late.
The one I'm recommending is a little bit of a
boogie when you can get Niela's everywhere. But I like
this one because it's pretty and it's got a handle
so you could like carry it around. And it's from
the SAC, who I've recommended before because they make really
good gardening belts and they're about to release a really
good hat which I can't wait to get. But the
(39:01):
SAC make really nice looking gardening things, and mine has
got pin stripes and it's very pretty. I know you
want me to stop, but I've got one more thing.
The other one is one of the problems with being
maybe it's me, maybe it is again back to the
median age. I forget all the time when I've planted, right.
So I'll go to the plant stall at my farmer's
market and I'll buy all these little seedlings.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Oh you bought your neel yesterday, and I'll.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Be like, I think there's a piece. Those are broccoli,
those are what? Those are tomatoes? And then you get
home and you're like, I can't remember what they are
and I've put them in the ground and I can't
remember what they are, and.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
Can you find out when they grow well you do
and some you do Jesse.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
But also you need to treat some of them differently.
Some need full shade, some mid part shade, some need
more water. I mean, come on, who am I talking to?
It's like a gender reveal anyway, So the ticky thing
is is you write the names on lolly sticks and
you stick them in and then the rain comes and
they're gone. So anyway, I bought myself some really nice
little plant things and you can get them from Bunnings.
(39:56):
They're really cheap. But also the ones I've got are
these boogie slate ones that you write on with chalk.
I don't know how they're going to go.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
They look nice.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
There are a whole different level of gardener.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Now, well I'm not, but there's a bit of me
that is, so I've got my basic Bunnings ones, and
then there's a bit of me that's like, what if
I tried the slate ones, maybe they'll work. And they
are from this place I buy seeds from called Veggie
and Garden Seeds, which is a really really good seed
place everybody. And they are slate and me right on
them with chalk and they look great. But it means
you can use them over and over.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I like to think that if all of us contributed
our skills, we would make up one very mediocre tad wife.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
We can just all make You can do the gardener,
you what would I do?
Speaker 4 (40:35):
That's true?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Fair?
Speaker 7 (40:37):
You know what?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
God look good.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
She looks real good, and you can make things in
your them out loud as who do not like my
niche veggie content. I apologize to the rest of you.
You're welcome, am.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
I want to know your recommendation?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Okay, good, because I know I feel so much better
for mine after doing that. It is a big day
for astrology girls, and I'm doing you all the service
by telling you.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
It is the eighth of August.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Huge day because the Lion's Gate portal is open where
has been opened since the twenty eighth of July, and
it closes on the twelfth of August.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
See that an actual shit?
Speaker 4 (41:16):
It's a portal in this.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Can I see it close?
Speaker 4 (41:20):
It's like a big metaphorical door.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
So the lion Gage Portal is a moment where the
sun in Leo is in alignment with three important celestial markers.
The star series, which is the brightest Star, Ryan's Belt
and Earth. Okay, and when the portal opens, it's like
all our manifestations are on steroids.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
So now I don't.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Believe I get left at for my guarden.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
We need to manifest a lot right now. So everyone
today manifests to.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Your recommendation is manifesting.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I promise you, whatever you manifest today, it will happen.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
How do you manifest do you?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Just like?
Speaker 2 (41:56):
You can do it different ways, like meditation, journaling, like
thinking about something. My friends like write something on a
note then put it under their pillow.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Or bury it in the garden. I have one question
for you about this, the practical manifestation question and its
conversation genuine conversations happening with my friends recently. Okay, my
friend changes her password on all her devices to the
things she's manifesting at any given time. So she was
like for ages, she was saving up to try and
buy a house, and so she'd be like new house
twenty twenty five, the password on everything. And the point
(42:26):
of it was is that you're manifesting. Man, every time
you do it, I love you putting it into the world.
And think of how many times a day your type
of password in do we recommend this and will this
particularly work today?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I don't know about that. I think your friend's manifesting
to be hacked. If anything, I think just theickuld really
strong passwords is my practical recommendation. But I want to
give you guys my credentials for this. Okay, okay, because
I actually have.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Could done so.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
I was the most skeptical person of this stuff until
two weeks ago, because something happens. Okay, you guys have
heard of your Sadden return?
Speaker 5 (42:58):
Yes, oh yeah, how old are you?
Speaker 4 (43:00):
I'm twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
So your sudden return happens between like twenty seven, like
your late twenties, and then it happens again in your
late fifties. Basically, it takes sat In around twenty nine
years to make a full circle around the sun before
it's in the same place as when you were born,
and it says that something massive happens, and then she's
really something you're aware of, like a big thing happens,
which is a catalyst for your.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Next stage of life.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I never knew what my Saturn return was, and I
was so angry about it because I never knew the
time I was born, and that's really important you need
to know the time you're born, the date you're born,
where you were born, and then those things you find
out your birth chart, and then they're able to tell
your sudden return. And I was over drinks with a
friend and they all knew that said in return, they
all knew the time they were born. And it's one
of those things that makes me so angry.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Because I don't understand. So at the time that you're born,
something cataclysmic happens, you.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Need to know the time you've born to find out
your birth chart, essentially, and I never knew.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
My mom said she forgot.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
It's not on my birth certificate, and I was I
was having this conversation of yelling at my friends saying
I've never known.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I've never known.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I get a text message from my mom and it's
a photo and it's a piece of paper. So I've
talked about on podcast how my grandfather passed away recently
and my parents were cleaning out his bedroom and they
found a piece of paper from when I was born
that has my weight, my length, the date, my name,
my parents, and the time I was born.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Oh wow, I think you manifested well.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
My friends were like, that's a bit woo woo, and
I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm not really like I
didn't really believe in anything in that moment. But then
I took the time. I didn't even think of this.
I took the time, and I was like, oh, I
can finally find out when my sudden returns happening. So
I looked at my sudden return and it was on
the twenty second of March this year, which was the
day my grandfather was hospitalized and he died a few
days after.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Wow. So it was a period of incredible transition.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, that's made me go, whoa, that is a sign
that I think that's a sign.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
So now I'm a.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Woo woo gir Oh, I'm I'm manifesting. Everyone like do it, Like,
just do some journaling, go for a walk, just have
some mean time. What I've been doing since twentieth of
July is just been going on long walks and then
kind of like manifesting and it ends up being like
a meditation kind of thing. Yep, so you just end
up feeling good regardless.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
Yeah, I do a lot of journals.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I'm speechless.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
You can do this whole you can garden while you
do it.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
I'm gonna garden while whatever you want, it's gonna happen.
Some crystals in the happens.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
Well, I have something for you to wear while your garden. Nice,
especially with Niela. Leave my Nila alone.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It's cool. I'm going to share a picture of it
and everyone's gonna go. I wish myn Niela was as
cool as that.
Speaker 5 (45:31):
I have been shopping a lot on Deeper, as I've
talked about. I have bought these Lulu Lemon high Rise
Flares and I just bought my second pair. That's how
good these pants are right now because they're on Deep
hop their secondhand, which is why I don't feel any guilt,
and you get them for way reduced and often that
Maya has are where secondhand active war where wear gross?
(45:54):
Shut up, man, you're not even eat right.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
We can still She's not here, but I can hear.
Speaker 5 (46:01):
These ones I've bought. I think one pair still have
the tags on. They are perfect for like exercising, but
also it's just my uniform when I'm not at work.
I have these Flair have you seen them?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Like You've been talking about them for some time, but
Amelia Lester have changed.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Do you wear them to pilates.
Speaker 5 (46:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Luca hates them, which is none of
my It doesn't like a flat He hates them. He
says it reminds him of his grandmother. Anyway. But I
have a second recommendation that, Holly, you're going to really
like good broccoli.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Yes, I've been growing it.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
Yes, well, I have a recipe. Have you done magic broccoli?
Nagi's magic Brocoli?
Speaker 4 (46:42):
This sounds really good.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
So excited because I literally have some very good broccoli
in the garden.
Speaker 5 (46:47):
What am I going to do about broccoli? Every night?
I've had a real toxic I do not like broccoli
most of the time, too soft. She does this magic
broccoli recipe which is like roasted really really crunchy, and
I swear it is like eating a chip. So you
put it in and like you've got your olive oil,
salt and pepper whatever, throat in the oven really really
(47:08):
hot flight twenty minutes and you do a little switch
through comes out and it looks like brown like because
it's so crispy.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Brussels sprouts are good like that.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
Yes, anyway, that's how you make him yummy?
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Right?
Speaker 5 (47:18):
Why having like boiled broccoli? Yuck? So then take it
out and like you can put lemon or parmesan or something.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Oh yeah, and hungry.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
This is I could eat a plate I can't handle.
How Like, I just feel like a better person ever
since I eat broccoli all the time, and like I
think I've become too healthy. You know, I still like
my chocolate after my broccoli. But the broccoli, I.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Like this from my garden, Jessie, and then you're gonna
be doing like double goodness.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
Oh it's so so yummy. We've been.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
It goes like a bit nutty, right yeah, like similarly
with Brussels sprouts.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
And just the crunch of it is like that's I've
been waiting my whole life for crunchy broccoli. So magic
broccoli that is recipue and Eate's recipe link in the
show notes that's.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
The best recommend it between the portal in the sky
and the crunchy I mean, come on, guys, your weekend's
going to be absolutely banging, all right. I think that's
all we've got time for friends. I think she's lucky
because things are getting a bit weird. Thank you so
much for being here with us all week. We're going
to be back in your ears next week. Jesse and
m thank all our wonderful team.
Speaker 5 (48:21):
Please a big thank you to our group executive producer
Ruth Devine, executive producer Emiline Gazillis.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Our senior audio producers Leah Porgees, our video producer Josh Green,
and our junior content producers are Coco and Tessa out Louders.
We know you're not ready to say goodbye, so if
you're looking for something else to listen to, on yesterday's
subscriber episode, we tackle breakups a lot of experience between
three of us, some more than others. I'd say one
(48:48):
out louder is dealing with the breakup for the first
time in twenty years, and there was the other out
louder who knew her friend's partner wanted to dump her.
We discuss whether she tell her or let things play
out on their own. Tap the link in our show
notes to check it out.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
Bye Bye Bye. Shout out to any Mum and me
A subscribers listening. If you love the show and you
want to support us, prescribing to MoMA MAA is the
very best way to do so. There's a link in
the episode description
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what women are
talking about on Friday, August the eighth. I'm Holly Waynwright,
I'm Jesse Stephens.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
And I'm Emmnham.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
And here's what's on our agenda for today.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
Is anyone actually a Genius? A new book has a
lot to say on the subject, including what the modern
day genius looks like?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Does it matter if no one we're looking at, watching,
listening to is even human anymore? How to spot the
AI influencers.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
And we've got some recommendations including something comfy to wear,
a cosmic manifestation. Today's date is actually very important for that,
and Holly, you have an ultimate gardening huck.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Of course you do.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But first, there is a particular woman that we haven't
heard from in a little while. So she has a
blonde can I speak to the manager Bob? She has
a tennis bracelet that jingles when she points to people
I know, I know of whom is she has a
bit of a temper. Yeah, I'm talking about the Karen.
Do you remember the Karen?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:20):
And then if we decide as a culture that it
was a little bit misogynistic because we couldn't identify the
male Karen.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Is that do we throw that Karen's amongst us?
Speaker 6 (01:28):
Did?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Yes, Karen's protested and they said absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
But I think it's entered the lexicon in a way
that can't be retracted. Like my kids talk all the
time about did you Karen them? Or did you get Karen? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So the reason we came to Karen and not everyone
named Karen is essentially a Karen. So it became a
meme of a name where Karen was given, usually to
a middle aged white woman who was described as entitled, demanding,
and casually racist. And yes, a lot of women was
like this has turned into a slur and it's very misogynistic.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
And it was used because that's a really important definition.
I think that it was being used against any woman
who was assertive at all. Yes, So if there were
as an instance of like I don't know, speaking or
asking for a refund or whatever, then it's like, is
that Karen or is that just a woman advocating for us?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And the reason the name Karen was chosen was because
it was a largely popular name, especially for the generation
to kind of late Gen X early boomers. So TikToker
Cassidy Lee posted a video saying it's time we find
the millennial version of a Karen, which prompted another creator,
Jessica Gallagher, to do a deep dive into popular millennial
names to choose our new Karen.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Here's a bit of her video.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
That Lisa, Jennifer, or Jessica. I'm guessing it's gonna be
Jessica because I don't know. I feel like Jessica, like
Jennifer's like jen seems nice, like Jenna's nice. She goes
by Jennifer, probably not that nice. Jessica will mess you up.
Jess is going to fight somebody if she gets angry.
So I feel like it's gonna be Jessica. I just
(03:01):
feel it. I'm sorry Jessica's out there, but like the
next Karen's going to be Jessica.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Jessica, are you Jessica.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
I'm not. I'm just Jesse.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I thought I.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Wondered about that because I never ever think of you
as a Jessica, never ever. Not that there same thing
wrong with Jessica's tore the Jessica's out there, but I
suddenly thought, it's Jessea Jessica.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
No, I'm not on the official bertificate. I'm just Jesse.
But I thought, this is America. What we need to
do for journalistic integrity here is work out. Because I
like their methodology, which is finding out the popular name.
I've kind of peaked millennial, so I went back and went,
all right, let's say peak millennial. Let's go nineteen eighty nine, right,
because that's sort of right in between. And what was
(03:41):
the most popular girl's name in Australia.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It was Jessica, although I also looked for Australian millennial
names that were big, and I also found Amelia and Mia.
So I don't know. I think we know Jessica show.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We all know Jessica, who fits a description, who could
fight someone if they need to. Also, it reminded me
of Lena Dunham's Too Much on Netflix, like Jessica was
her name, the main character's name, and I think that
was the most perfect name for that generation of women.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
That's so true. There's a feistiness to people who go
by Jessica. I do not mean that as a criticism,
but I do think that there's a bit of a fisiness.
I also wondered if Sarah knew a lot of Sarah's
and the other one. Every second girl at school was
named Laura, and so I think Laura could also be one.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I know what my generation is going to be? What
Maddie true?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
We sometimes in the Mama Mirror office we have up
to six Maddies just rubbing it out there.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
And they're not Madeline. They're not Madeline, they're not even mads.
They're all MADDI.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yes, it's all spelled differently. It's very hard to keep up.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Is anyone actually a genius?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (04:48):
Me?
Speaker 5 (04:49):
Do we actually believe in genius? Yes? M does? Who
fits a definition? And what do all of them seem
to have in common?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
We're all brown women? Sidebar.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I don't know if you noticed, but the last time
we talked about charisma and who's got charisma on the show?
And did you see that the out louders we're all
in the Facebook group saying Emily, I.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Just reported them. I reported them, and I locked and
deleted trolling occurring in this group.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I did will see a single one of those. If
you want to post them again and feel free to.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
And tag them specifically. British journalist Helen Lewis has just
published a new book called The Genius Myth, A Curious
History of Dangerous Ideas, and she recently sat down on
the podcast Honestly to present a sort of history and
critique of genius. Here's a little bit of what they
talked about.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
What is our definition of genius in the West today?
Speaker 8 (05:39):
Well, Samuel Johnson and his dictionary had a definition that
was a man possessed of superior faculties, and I think
that probably sums it up quite nicely. It's this idea
that there are some people who are just in a
kind of you know, class by themselves.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
One of the ideas that you talk about in your
book is that some of these people who we think
of as geniuses, some of these people who do exceptional things,
are largely or at least partially the result of timing
and location and luck.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
Paul Graham, who I think is one of the most
interesting and value thinkers, has this idea about the milanaise Leonardo.
Why is there no Leonard da Vinci but born in Milan?
And he says, because you don't just need Leonardo. You
need Florence, you need this incredibly fertile, creative city. And
I think that's very true. Elon Musk in Pretoria would
not be the richest man in the world. He needed America.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
So here's the crux of her argument. The West is
incredibly invested in this idea of genius. And we can
tell a lot about what a society values by who
it labels as a genius. Right, it's intrinsically exclusionary, and
it's often a license to behave badly. Yet we can't
give this idea up. We like to believe that there's
(06:50):
something innate about it, almost natural. Someone's born a genius,
and we elevate them into sort of something almost divine.
We also see genius as quite compatible with mental illness.
The genius often suffers a tragic death, maybe young, maybe
as a result of their own torturous mind, and we
all accept that there is often times a cost to
(07:11):
the people who love them. So she writes about how
genius has been perpetuated by great man history, which is
the idea that history is basically shaped by the story's
actions decisions of extraordinary men. She writes, we find it
intuitively easy to understand human size stories where someone does something,
whereas vague wafts of social change driven by multiple factors
(07:32):
might get academics excited but tend to leave everyone else
board to tears. I want to know how long did
it take you two to realize that the term genius
is entirely synonymous with men?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
And not that long?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Unfortunately, when I hear the word genius, even before I
knew we were doing the segment, I just saw the
word genius immediately. Albert Einstein just came up in my head.
And then it was always like the same type of
man who looked like Albert Einstein. I picture like a
man in some sort of like science gear with like glasses,
(08:07):
and he's white, and he's tall, and he wearing these
like goggles and he's doing some science experiments. It's like
it's always the same picture, and that picture is the
exact same through our generations.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And he's too busy brushes here,
too busy brushes.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
It's got a lot more.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Going on, Yeah, exactly. How about you, Holly, do you
think that genius is something that culturally we see as
reserved for men.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yes, but we also know there are so many structural
reasons for that, right, Like it's only relatively recently that
women were allowed to go to universities and be scientists
and all that kind of stuff. So you know, there's
a whole lot of very obvious structural things about that
that then also extend to all minorities everywhere, you know,
like colleges and universities were the preserve of the white elite.
(08:49):
You know, there were times in history where Jewish people
weren't allowed to go into universities there. So there's a
whole lot of very very structural, problematic history that leads
you to having this very narrow thing of geniuses. But
when I think about this, and when I was thinking
about this after we were talking about it, I'm interested
in creative genius, right because of course, like I stand art, right,
(09:11):
like when I say art, like reading music, whatever, in
a way that I don't understand science. So I was
thinking about creative genius and who gets labeled that also
mostly men, of course. But I think that we need
to move from the idea that someone is a genius
in the same way we need to like unpick the
idea that happiness is a destination rather than a series
(09:33):
of moments is that there are works of genius. But
whether that person is a genius and then everything they
touch forevermore is genius, I think is disproven. So I
think you could argue that like Hamilton, is a work
of genius. Right, Does that mean that Lynn Manuel Miranda,
the man who wrote it, is a genius? Not necessarily.
He's written a lot of other good musical songs, but
(09:55):
they're not all that good, you know what I mean?
Do you think that the Beatles were genius? It's like
Sergeant Peppers. You could argue that's a work of genius,
but not everything they did was great, and also they
needed the circumstances, the time, the partnership, the moment lift
to that level. I think about women now who are
operating on a very high level, as Taylor Swift a genius.
(10:16):
Is Oprah Wimfrey a genius for what she did, like
in changing the culture and the media, you know, like
it's beyond their genius because she made lemonade like or
is it that you can have moments of genius? I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
If the word genius can be applied to artists or
art specifically, because art is subjective.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
So I think with art, it's.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
More talent, right, And is it like everyone who's talented
also a genius or just because Hamilton was viewed by
millions and millions of people? Is that the reason why?
Speaker 5 (10:48):
I think it's it's just about the idea that there
is almost something divine or superhuman within certain individuals that
allows them to attain or create something greater than what
the average person can create. So like Beethoven or Mozart,
I think they're treated as whether or not you like
their music, you go I would consider them a genius.
(11:11):
And it's interesting that when we look at their stories
and the tragedies that befel them are really important parts
of their mythology, one hundred percent almost feels like it
equals the balance, Like we almost like our geniuses to
efface tragedy because we go, oh, okay, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
There's a cost.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
There's a cost, like the cost, Like I.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Disagree with the idea that you can't have artistic genius
because I don't mean a lot of people bought that record.
I mean it changed the game, right, Like if you
create a piece of work that literally becomes so influential,
it creates a movement, or it influences a generation. And
in the same way that what Jess is talking about
about how we like to think genius is divine, we
(11:51):
also like to think that that level of creativity is divine,
that you know, there was a moment in time where
this person was channeling this. And we love the narrative
of the tortured creative genius. You can list a million
of them. They have to die a horrible death, as
you say, Jess, usually by their on hand. And one
of the things that Helen Lewis talks about in this
interview that's she's like, cozy domesticity is not part of
(12:12):
the genius story, like it has to ruin you. So
Elon Musk, who she brought up in that clip and
is a very good avatar for how he consider genius
now is broadly considered to be a genius of some kind,
and his very messy and controversial personal life is almost
seen to be a part of that genius where you
couldn't expect a great man like that. And when I
(12:35):
say great man, I'm bringing a a certain amount of sarcasm.
And also I'm like talking about like the things he's
created and the things he's made. We also know now
that like the destructive side of that is huge. But
if you're just taking that on board, like you'd be like,
we couldn't expect a man like that to have a
boring like home life where to care for his fourteen Yeah, exactly,
(12:56):
Like he's about to not have fourteen children with lots
of lots of different people and have unconventional relationships. It's
part of his myth. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
So the tech innovator, Lewis argues, is the modern day genius.
And I think what we do in calling someone a
genius rather than someone who has created a work of
genius or was struck by genius, And I think the
idea of it being a lightning strike is a lot
better because I reckon the second someone believes they're a genius,
it's all downhill from there. Like I think that you should.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Never elon, must definitely definitely does.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
And because we've got this mythology I hear this all
the time, not just immediate but in conversations with people,
is that we will be talking about him, and women
in particular will be horrified by the fact he has
all of these kids who he doesn't appear to look after,
and he certainly doesn't have any kind relationship with any
of the mother's is enthusiasm for far right exactly. So
(13:47):
we excuse the fact that he's a bully, that he
exploits people, things that have happened at Tezla politics, and
how that's become a little bit of a mess. We
excuse all of that because we go, well, would we
expect a genius to kind of treat people nicely? Like,
we have a completely different criteria for him, And I
wonder if by that measure women will never get away
(14:08):
with that and would never get away with all the mess.
The problem with genius too is that I think that
once someone like Elon Musk is given that label, which
I think he's then internalized, is that we assume, or
he assumes, that a genius is transferable to all things.
So we don't even like to think that someone is
just a genius in one domain. We love the Leonardo
(14:28):
da Vinci idea that you're kind of this innovator and
you're this artist and you can invent things, and like,
you can do lots of things. So it's like Elon
then goes into politics and everyone goes, well, he's a genius,
and then like he goes and opens a new business,
and it's like he's a That's not how it works. Like,
some people are incredibly skilled at some things, but it
doesn't mean that your whole self is this remarkable, extraordinary
(14:53):
thing that can bestow success upon whatever you touch.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I think it also comes down to what genius goes
hand in hand with, and for me, it goes hand
in hand with popularity and opportunity and money. So similar
to the Mozart example, I feel like Mozart, but we
see him as a genius because he was the only
person doing that in his time, and now there are
so many Mozart esque people out who have perfect pitch,
(15:18):
who are developing amazing compositions, who if they were in
Mozart times, would be his direct competitor. But because there's
so many of them, we want to see genius as
like an exclusive thing where you can't have too many
geniuses because then you all just end up being like
the same pool of talent. You have to have one
genius who's like above.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
The rest of them, yes, and who tells a particular story.
So I was thinking about the movies I love the most,
often the story of a genius. Right, I love those
movies like a biopic that's Bob Dylan, that it's recently Elvis, right,
and Elvis existed and whether or not he appropriated or
was inspired by black artists is a topic of a
lot of historical conversation. But Elvis doesn't exist without the
(15:59):
black artists that came before him. We don't consider the
black artists genius.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yea, they don't consider Elvis genius. Who considers Elvis genius?
People his songs like he's performed, but the fact you
have to be the source to be the genius.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
But it's like your criteria for genius artist is different
from our criteria of genius.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
But I think there is a solid argument that, like,
you have to have created the thing. Elvis is charisma
plus opportunity, yeah, plus a moment in time. And he
was amazingly charismatic and good at what he did. But
he wasn't a genius. He didn't create it, you know
what I mean? So are genius is inventors to a point,
whether they're inventing, Like so, Shakespeare is widely considered to
(16:43):
be a genius. Right, and if he was just a
guy who was good at putting on other people's plays,
then that totally changes whether or not he's a genius,
you know what I mean. Taylor Swift is an interesting
example because she's now had a couple of decades of
sustained success of music that she's written that you could
definitely argue has influenced generations, has influenced the music industry,
has changed the game. No one ever suggests that Taylor
(17:06):
Swift is a genius? Have you ever heard anyone say
that Swifties like no who obviously would say that, but
the culture does not consider her to be so Kanye
West they say think that all the time. Yeah, even
though I mean not so much now obviously, because he's
veered so far into the most awful behavior.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
But I don't think all that. I think he's work
got worse.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Well, that's also true, but I think that there was
a level of behavior that was being excused because he
was a genius and his early albums and works of genius,
and then it became like you just can't so.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
You can't sep braid the art from the genius.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Well you can for a long time, but then I
think a line has been crossed, and I think that
you could argue that Kanye has but even before that,
people would call him a genius all the time, and
they wouldn't call Taylor Swifted genius.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So it is associated with men essentially, yeah, yeah, but
also like with the support that men get. Because I
was reading about Jeff Bezos and his divorce from his
wife and everyone was saying how much Mackenzie was going
to earn from this divorce forgetting that Jeff Bezos was
able to be Jeff Bezos because she managed and looked
after all of the kids, because she was driving him
(18:12):
everywhere while he wrote business plans in the car. So
does he get all the ownership for being that genius
because if he didn't have that support, would he be there?
Speaker 5 (18:21):
And that's what this book talks about as well. It
has a really interesting note written by Albert Einstein to
his wife which is basically like I mean, it translates
to basically, you my slafe, Like these men who achieved
such greatness needed someone or an apparatus behind them that
did all the other stuff. And like George orwell there
(18:42):
was that book recently written about his wife and the
genius that was maybe within them too.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Would we want to be a genius? Are you secretly
hoping that your daughter's a genius Jesse. I mean, obviously
she is. Yeah, we know that she is, but like,
would you wish genius on anyone one of the things?
Is interesting because you're talking about Mozart right earlier on,
unless I'm mixing him up with one of the other
men in weeks who were really good at the piano.
He was good from the minute he could walk right,
like there is.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
A belief prodigy. There's a prodigy?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Is he sat down at a piano and he wasn't
playing chopsticks like he was already going and so they
were wheeling him around Europe to play for kings and
like a freak show.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
So he was like a born genius.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Well that's the argument. But is that something you want?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
My instinct is to say no.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
But then secret hope is.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
But I'm thinking about talent, right and how there is
something so unknowable. I do not think that as human
beings we understand talent. We don't understand where it comes
from why, which is why some people have it exactly.
And there's this egalitarian view that we're all equal and
if we just did our ten thousand hours in practice,
we'd all be equal. And we know that's just not true.
(19:51):
There are some people that are born with such amazing talent,
and some of that gets realized due to luck, some
of it.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Does privilege and history and blah blah blah.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Yeah, and others will never know it because of those constraints.
But I do find something endlessly fascinating about studying talent
and knowing.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Where it came from.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Out louders, in a moment, does it even matter if
you're human anymore?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Out loud as, We have a listener dilemma and we
need your collective wisdom to help us and our partners.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
UI solve it.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Please.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Okay, So here's a problem from our listener. It says,
my best friend and I have been close for over
fifteen years. We've been through divorces, career changes, and raising
our kids together. We've always been brutally honest with each other,
which is why the situation is tearing me apart. She's
been with her partner for four years now, and they're
actively house hunting and discussing blending their family since they
(20:50):
both have kids from previous marriages. After her difficult divorce
six years ago, she often tells me how relieved she
is to finally be with someone who she can truly
depend on. Here's coming, Here's my dilemma. I was swiping
through a dating app late one night when I came
across her partner's profile. At first I thought it was old,
(21:11):
but one of his photos was from a friend's fortieth
birthday dinner last month.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Rookie move.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I recognize the restaurant and the watch he was wearing,
which she bought him. Do I tell my best friend
or stay quiet and hope she discovers it herself. Do
I confront him? What do you do next? This man
should be penalized for being stupid. He is not a
genius in a way.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Mozart's rolling in great.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
She has to tell this friend immediately. That's yeah, I
needs tell her friend immediately. I have been in this
position before, where it is someone I am simply not
close enough to. It's like an acquaintance, and you go,
I don't feel like I know enough details to just
throw you. Like if we were sitting around having dinner
and that was something we did all the time, I'd
probably tell you. But otherwise I just feel like I'm prying,
(21:58):
and I don't want you to think I'm getting any
glee from sharing this information, and would you tell.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
A friend so that they're really close friends. What she
does is she takes screenshots of the dating profile. She
either calls her friend or tells her in person, send
send the screenshots, and then gives her a little time
to sort out what she wants to do. Be there
if her friend needs her to be there, but also
give her space.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
And then check in in a few weeks.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I would need to be told over the phone because
I wouldn't be able to control my response. And I
don't want to be sitting there at a dinner when
the entrees haven't come out having a sob.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
This is a serious shit. They're about to blend their families.
You've got to go round there.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
You've got to sit to her cow that's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
You've got to not be in a public place. You've
got to go around there and be on and sit
on the couch and show her the pictures. And then
you have to allow her to do what she wants
to do with that information. She might say, oh, yeah,
like we've got an open thing, or like oh you know,
blah blah, like she might have reasons, and then you
also have to accept those But you're right, Jesse Is
it's only okay if you're close, Yeah, really close. Otherwise
(22:58):
it's not okay.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And I don't think in front of him straight away, No,
maybe a bit later.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Out louders, what would you do next? Share your thoughts
in the Mummere out loud Facebook group, and if you
have a dilemma, send it to us at our loud
at mummia dot com dot au. We love to hear
your dilemmas and we love to help.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Does it matter that the people we're aspiring to be
look like, create like be around these days are not
even people at all. Once upon a time, little girls
tortured themselves with the images of beautiful women in magazines
striding through fashion shoots with their long legs and their
oddly symmetrical faces, and we were, like, she exists. I
(23:36):
just didn't get blessed.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
With that question mark as to whether that person we
were looking at did exist.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, this is true. So and those women were photoshopped. Yes, right,
they were six foot tall, and they did have long legs,
and they were much more beautiful than us, But they
also were.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Touched up, they had a few more pause than it
looked like on the front page.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Of that magazine.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Then the influencers came first to static and then moving imagery,
and they were real, but they used filters, face tune,
that one that makes you look like you're always in
the sunset, all that kind of stuff, I call it
that kind of stuff. They use that. So they were real,
but they were like enhanced, and now they're just straight
up not real. There was a story last week that
(24:15):
we didn't talk about because we were sort of tossing
up this, well, have we ever really aspired to look
like real people? About the fact that Vogue could run
an advertising spread. It wasn't a Vogue fashion spread. It
was an advertising spread from guests that used an ai
model and stated that they did. And then this week
we met this woman called Mia on social media and
not our Maya. Just to be clear, Mia is very real,
(24:38):
Jesse tell us about Miya.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
Miya Zilu is an influencer. She has one hundred and
sixty seven thousand followers on Instagram and if you go
to her profile, if you were just scrolling through, you'd
think she was real. She's out and about, she's having dinner.
I think at one stage she might be at Wimbledon.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Like she's she's a wedding, she's at lunch, she's traveling,
she's like, I know real people whose Instagram fees look
exactly like.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Yes, there's one picture of her cat. The thing is
that Miya is not a real person, even in her bio.
It says ai influencer. There's this big pushback from influencers
from models. I'm a bit confused just to what she
is selling or if this is just something that agencies
approving they can do.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I think maybe she's selling the services of the YESI
agency you've made her.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Because from the model perspective, it's really interesting that you
used to have a shoot in a magazine to promote
your clothes, but now with e commerce you need so
many thousands of images that a lot of those brands
are saying we can't keep up. And the way that
that cuts costs is incredibly alluring when you would say
potentially also under eckle.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
So my daughter who looks lots of fast fashion, and
she's often showing me a picture. It'll be some you know,
far away round in place, but she'll be like, always
show me a picture and saying this dress that thing,
and the person is clearly not real. And the way
it works is you can take a flat lay picture
of your dress and then it can go onto an
ai model. These women are almost always unbelievably skinny. For sir,
(26:14):
look exactly the same white blonde. They all look like
Claudia Schiffer in nineteen ninety six, but like very skinny.
Whatever as it does me, yeah, as does me absolutely.
Then there's this band called the Velvet sundown On that.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Sounds like came up with a terrible name.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Well, the thing is is so this this was around
a few weeks ago too, and I didn't know what
to make of it. But then to play you a
little bit of one of their songs, right, this song
has way more than two and a half million streams
on Spotify.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Dust all the wind boots on the ground smoking the sky.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
Pease found rivers run rare, The drums were all slow.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Tell me brother, where do we go?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Raision?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
So they can create robots now that sound like they
smoked day.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Which is interesting. But yes, you look terrified that song.
I'm leaning right in huge.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And the thing is is the band have like loads
of imagery. They all look a certain way. They're sort
of like a big uous in their background. They're like
rugged and they look like they sound, and that has
millions of streams.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
I know that all music is iterative, but that sounds
so iterative. It sounds like four other songs.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
But so does most I know.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
But there's something about knowing how much was scraped in
order to artificially generate creativity that makes me feel nauseous.
I hate it.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
But why do you want to know?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Like, what would that change?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well?
Speaker 5 (27:53):
I think that there are two types of people right
when I and I actually think. This comes right back
to the genius conversation. When I consume something I love,
whether that's television, something i've read, a painting, I almost
always google the person. I really want to know about
the person because often I want to know what influenced it.
I have to know a little bit about their lives.
(28:15):
The random people I follow on Instagram that are just
from something I saw, Like even a musical. I'll go
to a musical and just become obsessed with the lead
and so to me, that music has no depth or
soul or resonance because there's nothing true about it, Like
there's nothing true.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Well, this is what's interesting and what I wanted to
talk about. Right, So that song has all these streams
and it went to number one, and that's why everybody
got upset. And then it turned out that one of
the things that platforms like Spotify and Apple Music of
fighting is fake streaming. Right, So robots are listening to
the robots. There are all these feeds that are being
screwed with by basically like AI bots, you just stream
(28:53):
stream streamstream, and lots of genuine artists feeds are being
infiltrated by this, and it's partly a ploy to be
able to gain the algorithms and all this stuff. So
we might be living in a world where the robots
are listening to the robots. I want to dig in
on your question, M was does it matter? Does it
matter that it doesn't exist? When? To be honest, looking
at her feed, I know a lot of real influences,
(29:15):
and some of them I actually know and I love
them to bits, but their feeds look like they're fake. Right,
So does it matter? That's my question I'm getting to
is does it matter?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think it matters in certain situations, like with the
fashion model.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
The one thing.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I really like that I felt like e commerce websites
were doing really well with fashion where they were starting
to show models of different sizes on their website. So
if I wanted to buy a dress, I would be
able to find a model who was kind of my size,
so I knew exactly how that dress would fit me.
And now if you have an AI model, it's not
even like seeing the piece of clothes you want on
(29:50):
someone who's not your size, but seeing that piece of
clothing look like something that fits a certain type of
body that is completely fake, yeah, to make it more
appealing to you. And then you get the piece and
you're like, what the heck is this? This is human different,
So that is like a very selfish reason. Obviously that
model is also taking over other people's and photographers jobs
(30:10):
and editors jobs. But with the fake Mia on Instagram,
the AI influencer, there's something so interesting about her profile
that I can't look away from.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
And I think it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Was the first AI model that I genuinely couldn't tell
was AI because and if you look really closely at
her photos and zoom in, she does have certain floors
like human floors, like there's this carousel where she's at
I think a basketball game and I zoomed in on
her shoes and her the skin around her ankles are
a bit red where her shoe would have naturally rubbed
(30:45):
against And it's like little things like that. There's a
photo of her with the band aid on her arm,
and it's little things like that where I feel like
we're going to be in dangerous waters, especially if she's
going to be starting to market products and things like
that as an actual influencer, because we actually don't know
the face behind of who's getting that money and who's
actually promoting that product.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
She even has feelings, right, there's a post on her
feed where she's being sad about the trolls and it's
like she's kind of pointing to the bad messages, which
is really interesting because again that's a trope that we
see real people doing in real life. So it's like
we are so predictable and memorable in the content that
we create and consume that the robots have just totally
(31:28):
got a sus right. They're like, this is exactly the
kind of post that an influencer in her twenties who
looked like me and was in Eurosummer would make and
would do. And it's true, like the wedding. I'm at,
I'm seeing her friends, I'm seeing like it's a whole world,
and I can't decide if it matters or not.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Oh matters so much, it's so grossly dystopian. The biggest
thing to me is the money the jobs, right, is
that it's not just the models that are getting replaced
for Vogue to publish them for Vogue.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Here's what's interesting, because let's remember it wasn't Vogue who
made no, No No, but they rablish it, which is in
a photo shoot. If you zoom out from the model,
you've got, like the person who gets this sandwiches. You've
got the photographer, the hairstylist, the makeup artist, so the
stylist for the clothes. You've got the photographer's assistant. You've
got the person who book the studio. You've got the
person who runs the studio, sits on reception as You've
got a whole industry around this industry as it were.
(32:24):
And it isn't the first time, obviously that humans have
lost their jobs to automation, but it is nothing. The
scale is so huge.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
It's at the loss of that artistry. And I think
you can look at certain things like even the music
or the image or the model and go, oh well,
it's not even that good. And to me, that argument's
completely redundant because it's going to get better and better,
like if we haven't read the best poem ever written
by Ai yet, like we'll get there, probably in the
next six months. But the issue of copyright makes me sick. Meya,
(32:55):
her face hasn't been drawn by someone. It is an
amalgamation of other people's faces who didn't get paid, like
you didn't even own your own face. So they've thrown
in all these faces. And there are all these arguments
that people are trying to make and it's like, no, no,
this is just like late stage dystopian capitalism when no
one gets paid anymore for any labor.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
I do agree, and I worry about what we need
people for it all anymore. But if you pull back
to these images, these influencers, the beauty standard, the band
if I like boring middle of the road rock music,
and I listen to that and I like it. I
just I'm always wrestling with the idea of like does
it matter that he's not writing about something real? Like
(33:37):
does it really I think about my kids, who on
their social media platforms that they're on. They at first
would be like, huh, look at this terrible AI, right,
but now they actively love AI content and they'll show me,
look at this amazing AI. Like they are entertained by
the things that AI can do, and they don't see
it as scary in the way that we do because
they don't maybe understand the scale, but also they don't
(33:59):
have skin in the game in that way that we do.
There's something almost amazing about it.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I think it's hard with kids particularly and how they
get influenced by AI, because I feel like when you're young,
anything that you indulge, whether it's like music or TV
or movies, comes with that added layer of education of
like seeing something and then finding passion for something and going, oh,
I could do that, I could write that book, I
could make a movie like that, I could star in that,
(34:27):
and then finding out that no, you can't because that
was just fake and now that doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
So how do you feel, m if you listen to
a song and you went, Okay, I love this song
and you're playing it and playing it and then you
learned it was AI, Like, does that undermine it for you?
Can you see a world in which your favorite song
was AI generated.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I can in the future. I can't write now because
I still think if I were to like a song
and then only after the fact find out it's AI,
I'd be super embarrassed. Yeah, and feel like I have
such basic takes. Why would you be embarrassed? Because I
think it comes with the layer of like you are
such a basic bitch, Like of course you would like that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
But I can see the appeal for and this is
depressing in itself, but the appeal for the people who
create this stuff, right, whether it's models, musicians, writers, anybody.
Humans are annoying. They have opinions, they have demands, they
want input. They might have a ten per tandrum theym
have a bad day. They might have PMS, they might
have addiction issues, they might be the deadline, they have dietaries.
(35:23):
Like they're annoying. Robots have no demands of you. And
I know I call them the robots, and I know
that's not what it is. And you can see why
that is so appealing to a business that's like, well,
I no longer have to think about auditioning models, dealing
with models. The model might be like I don't like
how I look in that way. I don't like or
the writer who's late, the writer who's like, that's what's sad.
(35:44):
We're like flattening the idea that anyone should have agency
who's creating a thing.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
I find the question of diversity really interesting. So diversity
has even been considered as a thing for such a
short period of time, right where if you were a
woman of color or you were plus size, finally you
got a job. Right now, if you want to virtue
signal your diversity, you can just change the color of
your model. Yeah, you don't have to hire any And
(36:09):
I seen that being reported in like in a positive
light that it's like, well, we've really increased the diversity
of representation in our fashion shoots like the fake Babe
get paid fad in her family. After the break, we
have some brilliant records. I'm breaking all the rules and
em has some advice about how to manifest.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma MIA's subscribers. Follow the link
in the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week, and a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
weekend with our best recommendations. Polly May is not here,
so I hear that you've gone a little bit roguod recommendation.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
So excited. Can you hear the joy in my voice?
Not that May is not here. I missed her course,
but it's given me free rain to do some gardening
wreckos worms involved, No worms involved. The thing is is
that gardeners around the nation are getting tingly because winter's
nearly finished and spring is a very busy time in
the garden.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
They're coming out of hibernation.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
I work upon Sunday morning. I already bored you with
what happened when I work up on Saturday morning. Welcome
to my Sunday. On Sunday morning, I woke up. I
had a message from a gardening friend who was like,
get to the plant stall now, because it's nearly freaking spring.
You need to get your stuff in. I'm like, I'm there.
That's so exciting anyway. So in the spirit of exciting
gardening time, friends, I've got two gardening wrecos both of
(37:47):
you are going to think I'm so sad.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
No, I feel I'm left out.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I don't even have a balcony.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I know a lot of this is me for a
long time, but one is for aneela. Do you know
what aneela is?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I absolutely how do you even ask me such a
Is it an instrument like a rake?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Anela like a it's Aneela is a comfy pad that
you put on the ground so you can.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Used to have one of those.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
No, no, but it's not because you're exactly you could
steal one from church. It's not just because of your
old knees. And sure the median age range perhaps suggests that,
but it's also dirt right, so like it's been raining
a lot where I live lately, So when I'm kneeling
down to get in my veggie beds and everything, I
get filthy. So you get a kneeler so that you
(38:34):
can put it down. And my one that I've got
that I'm going to recommend.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
But are you wearing your best white while your got it?
Speaker 7 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
But I just don't want to be covered and shit,
I don't want my needs to be wet and sogging.
Then I won't stay down there as long get late.
The one I'm recommending is a little bit of a
boogie when you can get Niela's everywhere. But I like
this one because it's pretty and it's got a handle
so you could like carry it around. And it's from
the SAC, who I've recommended before because they make really
good gardening belts and they're about to release a really
good hat which I can't wait to get. But the
(39:01):
SAC make really nice looking gardening things, and mine has
got pin stripes and it's very pretty. I know you
want me to stop, but I've got one more thing.
The other one is one of the problems with being
maybe it's me, maybe it is again back to the
median age. I forget all the time when I've planted, right.
So I'll go to the plant stall at my farmer's
market and I'll buy all these little seedlings.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Oh you bought your neel yesterday, and I'll.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Be like, I think there's a piece. Those are broccoli,
those are what? Those are tomatoes? And then you get
home and you're like, I can't remember what they are
and I've put them in the ground and I can't
remember what they are, and.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
Can you find out when they grow well you do
and some you do Jesse.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
But also you need to treat some of them differently.
Some need full shade, some mid part shade, some need
more water. I mean, come on, who am I talking to?
It's like a gender reveal anyway, So the ticky thing
is is you write the names on lolly sticks and
you stick them in and then the rain comes and
they're gone. So anyway, I bought myself some really nice
little plant things and you can get them from Bunnings.
(39:56):
They're really cheap. But also the ones I've got are
these boogie slate ones that you write on with chalk.
I don't know how they're going to go.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
They look nice.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
There are a whole different level of gardener.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Now, well I'm not, but there's a bit of me
that is, so I've got my basic Bunnings ones, and
then there's a bit of me that's like, what if
I tried the slate ones, maybe they'll work. And they
are from this place I buy seeds from called Veggie
and Garden Seeds, which is a really really good seed
place everybody. And they are slate and me right on
them with chalk and they look great. But it means
you can use them over and over.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I like to think that if all of us contributed
our skills, we would make up one very mediocre tad wife.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
We can just all make You can do the gardener,
you what would I do?
Speaker 4 (40:35):
That's true?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Fair?
Speaker 7 (40:37):
You know what?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
God look good.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
She looks real good, and you can make things in
your them out loud as who do not like my
niche veggie content. I apologize to the rest of you.
You're welcome, am.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
I want to know your recommendation?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Okay, good, because I know I feel so much better
for mine after doing that. It is a big day
for astrology girls, and I'm doing you all the service
by telling you.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
It is the eighth of August.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Huge day because the Lion's Gate portal is open where
has been opened since the twenty eighth of July, and
it closes on the twelfth of August.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
See that an actual shit?
Speaker 4 (41:16):
It's a portal in this.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Can I see it close?
Speaker 4 (41:20):
It's like a big metaphorical door.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
So the lion Gage Portal is a moment where the
sun in Leo is in alignment with three important celestial markers.
The star series, which is the brightest Star, Ryan's Belt
and Earth. Okay, and when the portal opens, it's like
all our manifestations are on steroids.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
So now I don't.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Believe I get left at for my guarden.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
We need to manifest a lot right now. So everyone
today manifests to.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Your recommendation is manifesting.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I promise you, whatever you manifest today, it will happen.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
How do you manifest do you?
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Just like?
Speaker 2 (41:56):
You can do it different ways, like meditation, journaling, like
thinking about something. My friends like write something on a
note then put it under their pillow.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Or bury it in the garden. I have one question
for you about this, the practical manifestation question and its
conversation genuine conversations happening with my friends recently. Okay, my
friend changes her password on all her devices to the
things she's manifesting at any given time. So she was
like for ages, she was saving up to try and
buy a house, and so she'd be like new house
twenty twenty five, the password on everything. And the point
(42:26):
of it was is that you're manifesting. Man, every time
you do it, I love you putting it into the world.
And think of how many times a day your type
of password in do we recommend this and will this
particularly work today?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I don't know about that. I think your friend's manifesting
to be hacked. If anything, I think just theickuld really
strong passwords is my practical recommendation. But I want to
give you guys my credentials for this. Okay, okay, because
I actually have.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Could done so.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
I was the most skeptical person of this stuff until
two weeks ago, because something happens. Okay, you guys have
heard of your Sadden return?
Speaker 5 (42:58):
Yes, oh yeah, how old are you?
Speaker 4 (43:00):
I'm twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
So your sudden return happens between like twenty seven, like
your late twenties, and then it happens again in your
late fifties. Basically, it takes sat In around twenty nine
years to make a full circle around the sun before
it's in the same place as when you were born,
and it says that something massive happens, and then she's
really something you're aware of, like a big thing happens,
which is a catalyst for your.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Next stage of life.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I never knew what my Saturn return was, and I
was so angry about it because I never knew the
time I was born, and that's really important you need
to know the time you're born, the date you're born,
where you were born, and then those things you find
out your birth chart, and then they're able to tell
your sudden return. And I was over drinks with a
friend and they all knew that said in return, they
all knew the time they were born. And it's one
of those things that makes me so angry.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Because I don't understand. So at the time that you're born,
something cataclysmic happens, you.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Need to know the time you've born to find out
your birth chart, essentially, and I never knew.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
My mom said she forgot.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
It's not on my birth certificate, and I was I
was having this conversation of yelling at my friends saying
I've never known.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I've never known.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I get a text message from my mom and it's
a photo and it's a piece of paper. So I've
talked about on podcast how my grandfather passed away recently
and my parents were cleaning out his bedroom and they
found a piece of paper from when I was born
that has my weight, my length, the date, my name,
my parents, and the time I was born.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Oh wow, I think you manifested well.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
My friends were like, that's a bit woo woo, and
I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm not really like I
didn't really believe in anything in that moment. But then
I took the time. I didn't even think of this.
I took the time, and I was like, oh, I
can finally find out when my sudden returns happening. So
I looked at my sudden return and it was on
the twenty second of March this year, which was the
day my grandfather was hospitalized and he died a few
days after.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Wow. So it was a period of incredible transition.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, that's made me go, whoa, that is a sign
that I think that's a sign.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
So now I'm a.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Woo woo gir Oh, I'm I'm manifesting. Everyone like do it, Like,
just do some journaling, go for a walk, just have
some mean time. What I've been doing since twentieth of
July is just been going on long walks and then
kind of like manifesting and it ends up being like
a meditation kind of thing. Yep, so you just end
up feeling good regardless.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
Yeah, I do a lot of journals.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I'm speechless.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
You can do this whole you can garden while you
do it.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
I'm gonna garden while whatever you want, it's gonna happen.
Some crystals in the happens.
Speaker 5 (45:21):
Well, I have something for you to wear while your garden. Nice,
especially with Niela. Leave my Nila alone.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It's cool. I'm going to share a picture of it
and everyone's gonna go. I wish myn Niela was as
cool as that.
Speaker 5 (45:31):
I have been shopping a lot on Deeper, as I've
talked about. I have bought these Lulu Lemon high Rise
Flares and I just bought my second pair. That's how
good these pants are right now because they're on Deep
hop their secondhand, which is why I don't feel any guilt,
and you get them for way reduced and often that
Maya has are where secondhand active war where wear gross?
(45:54):
Shut up, man, you're not even eat right.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
We can still She's not here, but I can hear.
Speaker 5 (46:01):
These ones I've bought. I think one pair still have
the tags on. They are perfect for like exercising, but
also it's just my uniform when I'm not at work.
I have these Flair have you seen them?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Like You've been talking about them for some time, but
Amelia Lester have changed.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Do you wear them to pilates.
Speaker 5 (46:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Luca hates them, which is none of
my It doesn't like a flat He hates them. He
says it reminds him of his grandmother. Anyway. But I
have a second recommendation that, Holly, you're going to really
like good broccoli.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
Yes, I've been growing it.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
Yes, well, I have a recipe. Have you done magic broccoli?
Nagi's magic Brocoli?
Speaker 4 (46:42):
This sounds really good.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
So excited because I literally have some very good broccoli
in the garden.
Speaker 5 (46:47):
What am I going to do about broccoli? Every night?
I've had a real toxic I do not like broccoli
most of the time, too soft. She does this magic
broccoli recipe which is like roasted really really crunchy, and
I swear it is like eating a chip. So you
put it in and like you've got your olive oil,
salt and pepper whatever, throat in the oven really really
(47:08):
hot flight twenty minutes and you do a little switch
through comes out and it looks like brown like because
it's so crispy.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Brussels sprouts are good like that.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
Yes, anyway, that's how you make him yummy?
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Right?
Speaker 5 (47:18):
Why having like boiled broccoli? Yuck? So then take it
out and like you can put lemon or parmesan or something.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Oh yeah, and hungry.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
This is I could eat a plate I can't handle.
How Like, I just feel like a better person ever
since I eat broccoli all the time, and like I
think I've become too healthy. You know, I still like
my chocolate after my broccoli. But the broccoli, I.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Like this from my garden, Jessie, and then you're gonna
be doing like double goodness.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
Oh it's so so yummy. We've been.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
It goes like a bit nutty, right yeah, like similarly
with Brussels sprouts.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
And just the crunch of it is like that's I've
been waiting my whole life for crunchy broccoli. So magic
broccoli that is recipue and Eate's recipe link in the
show notes that's.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
The best recommend it between the portal in the sky
and the crunchy I mean, come on, guys, your weekend's
going to be absolutely banging, all right. I think that's
all we've got time for friends. I think she's lucky
because things are getting a bit weird. Thank you so
much for being here with us all week. We're going
to be back in your ears next week. Jesse and
m thank all our wonderful team.
Speaker 5 (48:21):
Please a big thank you to our group executive producer
Ruth Devine, executive producer Emiline Gazillis.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Our senior audio producers Leah Porgees, our video producer Josh Green,
and our junior content producers are Coco and Tessa out Louders.
We know you're not ready to say goodbye, so if
you're looking for something else to listen to, on yesterday's
subscriber episode, we tackle breakups a lot of experience between
three of us, some more than others. I'd say one
(48:48):
out louder is dealing with the breakup for the first
time in twenty years, and there was the other out
louder who knew her friend's partner wanted to dump her.
We discuss whether she tell her or let things play
out on their own. Tap the link in our show
notes to check it out.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
Bye Bye Bye. Shout out to any Mum and me
A subscribers listening. If you love the show and you
want to support us, prescribing to MoMA MAA is the
very best way to do so. There's a link in
the episode description
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