May 28, 2025 • 38 mins
Hugh Jackman and Deborra-Lee Furness — their divorce has been simmering for years. So why the sudden searing statement and drip-feeding leaks to the press? Mia, Holly and Jessie decode the sneaky whispers and what they might really mean.
Meanwhile, two Aussie states have flipped the script on ADHD diagnosis and treatment. It's a massive shake-up — and it could change millions of lives.
Plus, a shove to the face — yes, an actual one — might be more than just a viral moment. We're breaking down the real story behind the Emmanuel Macron's French presidential push.
And if you're wondering what a textbook hard relaunch looks like, look no further than J.Lo at the AMAs. It's a vibe and we're here for it.
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What To Listen To Next:
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- Listen: Is OnlyFans Cheating?
- Listen: A Bro-Podcast Storm & All The Fashion Week Beef
What to read:
- Hugh Jackman and Deborra-Lee Furness' marriage ended 2 years ago. Now Deborra’s made a final decision.
- 'I was diagnosed with ADHD at 30. Here's what no one tells you about the grief.'
- 'I have two sons with autism and one with ADHD. I can now see all of the signs.'
- The moment the tide turned for Jennifer Lopez.
- Every single look from this year's AMAs red carpet.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. It was the American
Music Awards gist, and in the absence of any announcement
of a new Taylor Swift album, it served instead as
Jay Low's Hard. She danced to a medley of the
year's biggest song. She passed some dances which got people going,
(00:34):
oh those girls and boys.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
This is me on Instagram after being dumped. This is
like an interpreted dance of my behavior. I'm kissing him,
I'm in a body suit, I'm just looking at hard,
I'm singing all the songs and it was just my
relatable things.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Shaking my very famous booty.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia. Out loud what women
are actually talking about? On Wednesday, the twenty eighth of May,
we are back together and we are in our new studio.
Are we feeling fresh?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Feeling fresh and fancy? Have to say, pods are an
audio medium except when they're not. So we are in
our lovely studio because podcasts have to be videoed now.
So Mum and me moved into a new office this
week and that means new studios for all our podcasts.
And I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I think
our lads is nice.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I feel like I've started a new job.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I was saying to someone before I was walking around,
you know when you're just a bit irritable, And yesterday
I was walking around irritable and I went, you've not
gone to the toilet. You really need to do a week.
But I don't know where the toilet is. And I
had to just say five minutes, going, let's find the toilet.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I saw you a lot yesterday and every time you
just be wandering past, going do you know where the
do you know where the toilet is?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I feel like I've started a new job.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
If you want to see our wonderful new studios, which
are super beautiful and all furnished by the fancy Benton
and Fenton, you'll see them on our socials because all
the videos that we're filming for out Loud, now we're
in our fancy studios and you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It looks like a beautiful apartment.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Well, I don't know that anybody's fancy anyway. Who are
we back to business?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm Holly Wayne right and I'm Jesse Stevens and on
the show. Today, two states have rewritten the rules on
accessing some of the most prescribed meds in the country.
Also the French president his wife and the shove no
one was supposed to see, and the woman being kept
alive for her unborn child. But first Mia.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
In case you missed it, Debory Finesse has officially filed
for divorce from Hugh Jackman. And you might be thinking, wait,
haven't they been divorced for a while, He's got a
new partner, And you'd be right and also wrong. They
were married in nineteen ninety six, so almost thirty years ago,
and then in September twenty twenty three they announced they
(02:51):
were separating, so that's like a good eighteen months ago.
In January this year, Hugh Jackman did his first pap
walk with Sutton Foster, who was a co star in
musical they were both in together in Broadway, and the
timeline of when their relationship started and when his marriage ended,
I think everyone can agree it's a little fuzzy.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
It's a bit fuzzy. And Sutton Foster has also of
course split with her husband. They are also in the
midst of divorce proceedings.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes, so this week. The fact that Debra le filed
means that they've reached a private settlement that has covered
spousal support and all the financial matters. They've got two
kids who I think have both moved out of home.
I think they're over eighteen. The divorce is also uncontested,
so it just needs a judge to sign it off.
(03:42):
There've been reports that there's been quite a lot of
jocking behind the scene, as with any marriage split. But
what's interesting about this is both are leaking a little bit.
And it's interesting because not since January when Sutton Foster
and Hugh Jackman did quite a few pap walks and
they were filmed patching it in and out burger in
the car, they've gone a bit quiet. So there were
(04:04):
some rumors has Hugh Jackman and Sutton Foster broken up? Oh,
but then they popped up a again in what was
again very clearly a pat walk. They seem to be
her moving into his apartment, and then they were dressed
and sort of walking around I think in either La
or New York. The Daily Mail reported this morning that
a source close to Jackman says that he is looking
(04:26):
forward to the future and not looking back, which is
a bit shots fired. And then they said in a
statement sent to Daily Mail, Deborah Lee said, my heart
and compassion goes out to everyone who has traversed the
traumatic journey of betrayal. It's a profound wound that cuts deep. However,
I believe in a higher power and that God, the universe,
whatever you relate to as your guidance is always working
(04:49):
for us.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
The word betrays Yeah, that's not shots fired. That's like
the nuclear button husband push.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So, Daily Mail, how sure are we that that is
a quote by Deborahlely because that feels out of character.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It does. It's interesting, hole and I had the same conversation.
You're the expert in this hole. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I'm not entirely sold that. She said that because
it hasn't been widely reported by more reputable sources. But
Mia said before both sides are leaking. It could be
the kind of thing that oh slips out and then
oh no, I never said that. Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Right I care? I think she's really hurt.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Why would she do that now?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I think probably because they've reached their agreement, And yet
it hasn't been completely stamped. So I imagine within the agreement,
and I'm spitballing, that there would be non disparagement clauses
and that they would agree not to talk about each
other to the press.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
That's a kind of negative way, right the public people
put in divorce correct settlements.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So she might be just getting in this little window
between them agreeing and it being finalized.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh that's interesting. I have a quick question about this.
Why has this not seemed to taint Hugh Jackman's brand?
Why is it that Hugh Jackman still He was recently
in BONDI My sister saw him on the beach. Everyone
was going, Hi, Hugh. He was walking around with his
shirt off, with satin no on his own. Do you
think that it's because he was married to Deborah Lee
for such a long time. He's not the guy that
(06:16):
goes from one woman to another. It does appear that
there was some kind of betrayal. Insiders say that maybe
it was emotional rather than physical. There's no evidence that
they were kind of like hooking up on set and
then Deborah found like, we don't know, but do you
think this will stick to him?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, because he hasn't done anything wrong, like as in,
you know, obviously it's not great if he was still
with Deborah when he met Sutton. But he and Deborah
were together for decades. He was always a real wife guy.
He only ever sang her praises. They were together to
a whole lot of stuff. I entirely understand if she's furious,
of course, but like people have done a lot worse
(06:52):
and there's still big movie stars.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I think if he had had his next relationship with
someone who is in her twenties or even thirties, that
would have been different. And I think maybe if Deborah
Lee was like a beloved national treasure. I think she
is a beloved national. I don't think she's known very well.
I think that one of the things about their relationship
is that she parked her career, so she kind of
(07:14):
stopped acting when they got together for reasons. You know,
they had family in his career was huge, and they
moved all over the world for that, and so people
don't really know much about her, so there's not a
sense of feeling the betrayal on her behalf, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Speaking of hot divorces, it was the American Music Awards
yesterday and in the absence of any announcement of a
new Taylor Swift album, which some people thought was going
to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right when is rep TV coming?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
She just get on with it. She's so lazy, that Taylor,
She's so lazy, or any big names there at all. Really,
it served instead as j Loo's hard relaunch. As we know,
she went through a very painful divorce. Not actually, I
was going to say for the second time, but that's
not true. They never got married the first time, didn't
they she and Ben Affleck. But she went through a
divorce last northern summer and had to cancel her tour.
(08:04):
Remember she's had a few divorces. Well, she said, think
this one was the most public and brutal, very brutal,
and she canceled her tour. And she's been a little
bit licking her wounds since then, but not anymore because
she came out, She hosted, She changed her out for
eight times, very ja Lo. I love that she danced
to a medley of the year's biggest songs like full
choreographed room tunes to like Charlie XYX and Shiboozi and
(08:26):
Kendrick and all the cool tunes. Chapel roone, interestingly, not
her own, not her own. She passed some dancers which
got people going.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh those boys, the girls and boys.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
She's got a big tour this summer in Europe and
the Middle East, and she had Vega States to announce,
so she is like back of the back back, And
there's even a rumored situationship with Lewis Hamilton. The race
Oh I like that for her apparently has always fancied
Jlo and was on the record of sa, yeah, he's
a little bit of a pantsman, but he's on the
(09:00):
record of saying that he really hoped he'd bump into
it at the met Gala one year because he wants
to tell her that he's always loved her. And then
there was a picture of them together at a photo shoot,
like a very posed That's pessional picture.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Everyone needs after a breakup is someone saying I've always true.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
But what I love about j Lo she does nothing
fifty percent right. As Lady Gossip said today, if she
was at your backgyard barbecue, or if she's hosting the
amas its sequence Its dances, it's eight costume changes, it's
a full choreograph routine. We've all got a bit like that.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I saw snippets of this on Instagram and TikTok, and
I thought, this is me on Instagram after being dumped.
This is like an interpretive dance of my behavior on
I'm kissing him, I'm in a body suit, I'm just
looking at hart, I'm singing all the songs, and it
was just relatable.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Things, shaking my very famous booty. I've read a little
bit of backlash about her sort of queer baiting and
kissing women and kissing men, and it was giving a
little bit of two thousand and three Madonna and Brittany.
But I feel like when you watch the whole performance,
which sort of went for seven minutes, that was a
minor part of it, and that's kind of just table stakes. Now.
(10:08):
It's sort of what everybody does to show that they're
modern and relevant. I mean every performer in that way.
That idea of sexual fluidity is kind of like what
you have to do if you're a pop star. But
she also reminded the world that she's a dancer, like
others may sing better than her, others may act better
than her.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I sat through that movie You Made Me started as.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
A dancer, and this is her now.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
You may have seen the news that GPS in New
South Wales will be among the first in Australia to
diagnose and prescribe medication for children and adults with ADHD.
As it stands, most people in the country who are
seeking a diagnosis or ongoing medication for the condition need
to see a pediatrician. For kids or adults need to
(10:56):
see a psychiatrist, which is incredibly expensive and also involves
lengthy wait times, which we've talked about on the podcast before. Yeah,
if you can even find one whose books aren't closed, yeah, yeah, No.
I have people in my life who to wait up
to a year or more. I remember when I first
tried to get an appointment a few years ago, and
it was just coming out of COVID.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
The wait list was two years.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
An appointment can be hundreds and hundreds of.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Dollars five hundred and six thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
So what's happening is For example, the Guardian spoke to
a woman named Suzanne Grobkey who was making an eight
hour round trip. She lives in the mid North coast
of New South Wales and she was making an eight
hour round trip every three months to see a pediatrician
to get access for the medicine for a twelve year
old and doctor Rebecca Hoffman shared in a press release
about this new initiative that families are spending upwards of
(11:46):
five thousand dollars on getting an assessment, a diagnosis, and
the medication.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I understood that, you know, there were gatekeepers for being
diagnosed and getting your first access to that medication, but
once you're on it, I assumed that it was something
a script that your GP could refill, but that's not
the case. And so every I can't remember for six
months or twelve months, I have to have a conversation
with my psychiatrist who died it knows me to just
(12:11):
essentially check in and it's just over telehealth. It doesn't
take long, but it costs several hundred dollars, whereas formality.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Really, yeah, I'm on antidepressants, have been for ten years,
and I can get my script filled just with my GP.
I don't have to say a psychiatrist for that. So
it's different depending on the meds. So what do these
reforms actually mean in practice? So one thousand gps will
be specially trained to provide ongoing ADHD prescriptions.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So not just any GP.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Not just any GP, and so if you want to
go and say can I get a repeat, then they
can do that. One hundred GPS will be enabled to
diagnose and prescribe the medication, so an even fewer amount
will be trained funded by the New South Wales government
to go. You are now able to sit in your
office and diagnose ADHD.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That doesn't seem like a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
It's not a lot, it's not I would guess that
this has a lot to do with regional areas, the
regional areas of New South Wales where it's harder, they
will probably resource. The state government in Western Australia is
putting forward similar proposals in terms of breaking these barriers,
and in Queensland GPS can prescribe certain ADHD meds for
children without specialist approval. So this is an ongoing discussion
(13:20):
around the country and I don't think anyone would be
surprised to see this change in other states over the
coming years. Holly, what are the experts saying in regards
to these reforms.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Well, some psychiatrists are expressing concern over it. I don't
want to be cynical, but I might not find that
that surprising because if the psychiatrists are at the moment
the only people who can do it, and suddenly they
won't be, they may have a little bit of a
territorials Yeah, claim about that, but I'm not obviously saying
that about all psychiatrists. But Dr Patrick mcgury, for example,
(13:53):
wrote an op ed about it a few weeks ago
actually when it was just being proposed, saying that he
really worried it would worsen an over prescription because as
we know, prescribing of ADHD meds has tripled in the
past ten years, like it's skyrocketing forever. Write of complicated reasons.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, it would be surprising if anyone listening right now didn't
know someone who had it or had been diagnosed in
the last few years.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So he's worried that it will become overprescribed. But gps
are broadly welcoming it, So the College of General Practitioners
are saying that it will have life changing impacts when
it comes to accessing timely and affordable ADHD care for
families across the state. Now, I don't want to offer
opinions about medical matters. I don't know enough about it.
(14:38):
In the diagnostic space. But in my personal experience, it
would be life changing for a GP to be able
to prescribe this kind of medication because my child was
diagnosed when we lived in the city and we were
on a waiting list. And also you just have to
take whoever you can get in the pediatric space who
can do it, which I'm sure they're all qualified and
(14:59):
it's fine, but so you're on a very long waiting list,
then you go through a very difficult and long procedure
to get your prescription. And then when we moved from
the city to the regions, all the waiting lists were
more on the year long. And so you don't want
to let go of your city pediatrician, which is you
know you mentioned in the Introjessea woman from the mid
North Coast in this eight hour trip. You don't want
(15:20):
to let go of that person in the city, So
you're kind of plogging up their books in a way
while you wait to get into this person in your region.
And also you can't be in any way choosy about
the person in your region. You just whoever's got their
books open and whoever can do it, whether they like
it or not. And some pediatricians for very good reasons,
will have their own opinions about whether or not ADHD
(15:42):
meds are being over prescribed, so you might have to
go through another procedure to sort of prove yourself again.
I understand that. But if once my child was diagnosed,
we could just refill the medication at the GP, it
would save time, it would save money, it would just
be a lot easier. But what I don't know, because
I'm not an expert, so I don't want to make
(16:04):
you know blanket claims is I don't know if it
would be a thorough I don't know that. From my
personal experience, I can see why this would be a
desirable shift. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I've read a bit by Patrick mcgurray, who is a
psychiatrist and former Australian of the Year. He does a
lot with youth mental health and his op ed that
he wrote was really interesting because a lot of people
talked about his point about over prescribing, but in fact
he's got more of a focus on what he calls
inappropriate diagnosis, where he says we've got underdiagnosis and overdiagnosis.
(16:38):
So the people who really really need it, like people
in the regions, like kids, who can't get into the
pediatrician are suffering, while you've got other people who, he says,
aren't meeting the criteria. And his concern and again none
of us are experts, but he's a voice I feel
like is interesting in this space. His concern is that
ADHD symptoms crossover with a lot of other complex mental
(17:01):
health disorders, so you would want those gps to be
specialized in actually a number of things so that when
someone comes to you, He says, this thing where you
come seeking a diagnosis is new. Where you sit there
and you go, I have ADHD and I want my
medication is almost a transactional consumerist model that he's sort
(17:23):
of blowing the whistle on and going, what we don't
want is any medication, like medication I take, has side effects,
So we don't want someone to have those side effects
or to have negative impacts if that's not the correct diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And is this all about We've discussed before social media
and in a way the fact that now there is
so much information out there and people diagnosing themselves and others,
and not only with ADHD, but anxiety or whatever. So
when you say people are going into a medical professional
and saying, I have this, give me my meds. It's
because they've ticked all the boxes on that wanting to
(17:58):
be flippant, they've ticked all the boxes on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Or and it's social.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
But he talks about contagion even more broadly than that,
that it is something that you're hearing about and we've
talked about it. I saw a TikTok the other day
that said, if you often find that you're putting your
leg up on a couch, then that could be a
sign and psychiatrist will go it's like a spectrum, like
same as hypertension or blood pressure or whatever, where people
will sit on it. But something being a diagnosis is
(18:22):
how it impacts your life. So he has just kind
of been reluctant, as has doctor Ian Hickey, who is
another really prominent voice. He was on the project last
night talking about it and just saying he's a bit
worried about the inappropriate prescribing and inadequate assessment, because when
you get an ADHD diagnosis, you want a full history.
I mean, the irony of all of this is that
(18:44):
some people who are seeing pediatricians and seeing psychiatrists, they're
not doing the full thing. Because they're so busy that
they don't have that kind of capacity.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Saying I had to jump through a lot of hoops
sounds flipped. But before my diagnosis, I had to go
through a lot of sort of checkpoints. And it wasn't
just a simple oh yeah, here's a checklist, take no ye.
And in fact, I got diagnosed by cologist who specializes,
but she wasn't able to prescribe medication, and I just
(19:13):
assumed that my GP could once I had a diagnosis.
But then I had to start the process again with
a psychiatrist that took a lot longer to get into.
Because it's important to understand that ADHD meds are very
very tightly controlled. They're among the most tightly controlled drugs
that you can be prescribed. You're not allowed to get
your script more than a day or two before it's due.
(19:36):
It's very strict and that's designed to protect people and
to make sure the medication is not being misused. So look,
I don't feel equipped to really have any opinions about
it because I've got my diagnosis and I've got my medication,
and it's really easy to have views about it from
this side of the fence. I share all the concerns
(19:59):
that have been flagged. And I also know what it
can be like to be on a waiting list or
not be able to afford to see someone. You know,
I've got a lot of people in my life. I've
been helped many of them through it. If your life
is unmanageable because you have not been diagnosed and medicated,
it's really unmanageable.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, and a lot of pediatricians have said it can
impact if you're waiting a year, what can happen in
that year in terms of development, in terms of schoolwork,
in terms of like that can be a really distressing
year and it can have developmental impacts if that person
can't get the help they need.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It's true. And I also understand people who are like,
why is half my kids class on ADHD meds? I
also get that.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
In a moment, what the French president has said about
his wife shoving him right in the face. Did we
all see the video of what happened between the French
president Macron and his wife at the open door of
a plane in Vietnam this week?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I could talk about this for one year.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So I've been thinking about.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
If you didn't cameras were focused on Macran he landed
in Hanoi, and they were focused on the door of
the plane. You've seen these shots a million times, like
Head of State walks off play and walks downstairs, right,
But in the split second between you know, the door
opening and Macron stepping into what was supposed to be
the camera frame, you see these two hands in this
(21:21):
red pink coat like pushing him right in the face,
in the face, very shocking, very quick, very sudden. And
then you see Macron gathering himself quite quickly.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
When he realizes that the plane doors open.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yep, and like doing his royal wave and walking down
the stairs.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
What it looked like was that he was shocked at
what had happened. He was engaging with that situation. And
then there's a moment and I'm projecting this. I wasn't there,
but it's as though he looks to see if the
cameras are on him, and he kind of clocks it
and goes, I've got to acknowledge the cameras.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Then, of course, his wife Brigitte walks down the stairs
behind him, wearing the coat, so we know that the
hands were hers. This footage spun around the world in seconds,
and it took about twenty four hours, I think, for
the President to work out how to respond. At first
the line would fake news didn't happen, but by today
it was a joke. Mi chron said, my wife and
(22:15):
I were squabbling. We were rather joking, and I was
taken by surprise. It's become a kind of planetary catastrophe,
and some are even coming up with theories. Have you
two seen these theories? And what do we think is
an appropriate response to something like this being caught on camera,
because I can't think of very many examples of it
(22:36):
happening before.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Well, imagine if the genders had been reversed, it would
have been a very different story for a lot of
very understandable reasons. So I don't think you can always
apply that equivalency. But I think we have no choice
but to take him at his word. I mean, what
can you do if he says that we can't say
(22:57):
it was something other than what he says it was,
which is just mucking around.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And can we say what we think we saw? Because
it looks pretty damning from my I went and watched it,
and as always happens, you get the commentary before you
watch it. But it does look damning.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
It looks as it doesn't look like joking around.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
It doesn't look like joking around.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So the other thing that complicates it, right, is that
there's a big corner of the Internet who hate Macron
and constantly spread theories about him and his wife. Right,
because he and his wife have I think we can
say unconventional history.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Remind me, Brigitte.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Is seventy two and Macron is forty seven. Exactly how
it all went down, we don't know. But we do
know that they met when he was fifteen and she
was thirty nine.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Here's what we do.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, wait, was she his teacher?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yes, so she had three children and was married when
she met Emmanuel Macron who was fifteen and in her
daughter's class. And Emmanuel Macron's parents thought that he was
seeing the daughter, that there was a relationship going on,
and then they have found they've spoken in this book
where they then found out that it wasn't that he
was seeing this.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
The woman who of his classmate.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Of his the mother of his classmate, and she has
said basically when things started and when their relationships started,
and when they knew it was special, is not for
anyone else to know they haven't shared that.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's very Mary Kay Laturno and Villie Flower. Remember, I
mean he was twelve, but she was I think his
teacher or worked at his school or something. And she
ended up going to jail but had children with him,
and they ended up after she got released from jail,
they got married.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
So I was thinking about the age gap is similar
to if Anthony ALBERIZI had a wife who was my age, right,
that's probably like a similar age gap and age gaps whatever.
I think that the part about this story that troubles
people is how old they were when they met.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, that's the bit that troubles people.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
They have been together for decades and decades now though,
right the people who were very invested in the conspiracy
theories because they are always everywhere. They also like to
spread the rumor that she is transgender, which appears to
be entirely false. They like to spread rumors like the
fact that they say he was doing cocon of train
earlier this year. Did you see that there was a
(25:08):
video of him on a train with the German Chancellor
and the UK Prime Minister and he was picking up
a tissue. But there's a large section of the internet
who believes it was a bag of white powder. Broadly,
they like to paint him as a sort of short, inauthentic,
girly man like in direct contrast to say, a tall
alpha like one Donald Trump. The theory of why these
(25:30):
conspiracy theories go so fast is broadly because of his
very strong support of Ukraine and criticism of Russia.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So there are lots of people on the Internet who
love to spin the macron theory. And that's why if
you've seen memes and videos of this go around fast,
a lot of them say things like gurly Man gets slapped,
and you know they're because the.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Problem with this so it's the Russian bot farms. It is,
and that's what he has seen it.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It's in the Russian bot farms. But the problem is
this video is rare, so it doesn't help the conspiracy theories,
which I'm not suggesting any of them are true at all,
But this is one of those situations where something happens
that falls deliciously almost into the hands of the people
who want to believe these things about him.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Anyway, But isn't not all those conspiracy theories, That's not
what this relates to. Like, the worst reading of this
is that it was DV, that it's somehow an abusive relationship.
Now we don't know what happened just before the door opened,
and also what he said might be true. They might
have just been mucking around.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
No way, and he has said in his statement, and
I actually really respect this position. Is he came out
and said that video is real. He could have said
it was fair. If it was Donald Trump, he'd have
said it was fake. You denied, yeah, but he's gone,
that was real. And the video where you thought me
doing cocaine is real. It was actually a tissue. And
just I have detractors who were really uncomfortable with my
(26:50):
relationship with Zelenski and my support of Ukraine. And this
is the Internet going into overdrive. But the way that
it has now been narrativized or positioned is saying this
is humiliating for France. Look how weak France is.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes, emasculated, that's what all of this is about, right,
It's not what that video was about. But all of
the conspiracy theory stuff is about that. It's about emasculating him,
which is the narrative about this bossy older wife who
may or maybe not abuses him, and it is possibly
even not even who she says she is, and all
of these things, and look how weak and pathetic France is.
(27:27):
The problem is is this video being real really doesn't
help any of that stuff, and he is going to
be in real.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Trouble, which tells us something about how we view men
who experience violence at the hands of their female partners,
which is that it has been made fun of, it
has been undermined, it has been an example of how
he's not man enough. There's no way that the undercurrent
of like making fun of him would exist if this
(27:53):
were the other way around, which I think is really
sad and troubling. After the break, the real life story
of the woman being kept alive to incubate her unborn child.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
in the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week, and a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
There's a story coming out of the US that is
raising a lot of questions around not just abortion laws,
but around the ethics and what you believe constitutes human life.
Three months ago, a woman called Adrianna Smith. She's a
thirty year old nurse and a mother from Atlanta, Georgia.
She was experiencing severe headaches and she was nine weeks
(28:49):
pregnant at the time. This is back in February. She
was discharged after she turned up at hospital and sent
home without scans, and her boyfriend found her the next
day collapsed, rushed her back to hospital and she had
blood clots in her brain and she was declared brain dead.
As I said, she has a boyfriend and also a
seven year old son.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
In Georgia, there's something called the Life Act which came
into effect in twenty nineteen, and it bans all abortions
after six weeks, except in the case of rape, incest,
or maternal life endangerment, and there is no exception for
brain dead patients. So now Adriana since that day has
been on life support at Emory University Hospital. It's been
(29:32):
three months so far. The fetus is now twenty three
weeks and doctors plan to keep her there essentially as
a human incubator, until she has reached thirty two weeks gestation,
at which time they feel they can probably birth the
baby via cesarian section, and her family will then be
(29:52):
left to choose what to do with her.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
This is because when she went in there, they could
detect that the baby had a heartbeat, and so it
was against the law correct to curatically turn off her.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Linda, what would happen in Australia, Like this sounds really
a really dumb question, but I had never can this
scenario before.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, this wouldn't happen in Australia, but the Georgia Attorney
General's Office claims that the law doesn't require life support
for brain dead patients if they're pregnant. But the hospitals
fear liability because there are a lot of groups who
will then use this and try to sue the hospital
and embroil them in a whole legal thing and try
(30:32):
to sue the doctors, and the doctors could go to
jail or the nurse or whoever it is literally unplugs
the machine could be charged with murder.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I wonder what the mother would have wanted, That's my
big question.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, and I also want to know what her family want.
I think that changes how I feel about this story.
Like if everybody involved is like, this is not what
she would have wanted. Then it's a different story in
a way to if her family is saying she would
have absolutely wanted this.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Nobody can know what she would have wanted because she
was an otherwise seemingly healthy thirty year old woman who
was newly pregnant. Her boyfriend was the father of that child.
He hasn't given a state yet. And this family actually
hasn't spoken much except for her mother, and she has
given very limited sort of commentary. But her name's April Newkirk,
(31:20):
and what she has said is that the family might
have continued the pregnancy, but they wanted the autonomy of
whether or not to do that. And she's in one
statement she's given, she said, it's torture for me. I
see my daughter breathing, but she's not there. We should
have had a choice. My grandson may be blind, he
may not be able to walk because the other thing
(31:41):
is that there've been complications with the fetus. There's been
fluid on the brain detected, potential blindness and mobility issues.
The hospital hasn't commented, and her mother has said, I'm
not suggesting we would have chosen to enter her pregnancy.
I'm emphasizing that we should have had the option. It
should have been left up to the family.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Of course, because even from nutrition to all of the
things that a fetus is able to absorb from a
mother like this woman isn't there Like I just I
had never considered this.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And the financial hardship placed on the family. So yeah,
what happens exactly? Her boyfriend and seven year old son
are coming to visit her every day. Now, how do
you explain to a seven year old And Adriana's mother
has said this, you know, he comes and he visits
his mother, but with no hope that she might recover.
Like it's done. She's not going to survive on her
(32:34):
own as soon as the tube is taken out. So
it's just the most handmade's tale type of story. And
this is the kind of thing that's happening in America
now since Roversus Wade was repealed, and these draconian laws
are being applied not in every state, but in a
lot of states. And it really sees a woman and
(32:57):
a woman's body as purely a vessel with no legal rights,
no autonomy, but just essentially a human incubator.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Before we go, do you too know much about the
enhanced games.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
But I'm excited because they sound like they're better than
just normal games.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I saw a picture of James Magnuson the swimmer looking
like he'd been pumped up with a bicycle pump, like,
just looking so steroided up.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
He essentially has. So the Enhanced Games is like the Olympics,
but for people who want to take all the drugs.
So it's the Olympics on steroids and literally ill on steroids.
And it's the brainchild of an Ossie businessman named Aaron Desuza,
and it is set to happen in May next year.
But the reason there are so many headlines about it
at the moment is because World Aquatics, so the like
(33:46):
swimming organization, has come out and said the event is
like clowns, jruggling knives is their quote, and they will
sanction athletes who compete even if they haven't used performance
enhancing drugs.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So are the athletes competing who aren't planning on using
performance enhancing drugs?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Well, James Magnuson, so he's an Ausi swimmer who has
competed in two Olympics, and he a few weeks ago
called out to Cam macavoy and Cam Macavoy is the
Aussie who won the fifty meters freestyle, so he's like
the world's fastest swimmers.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
He's like a current Olympian, current Olympic champion.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, does not take drugs. And he did a call
out to Cam and said, I want you to compete
in the enhanced Game.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
So the idea is like, I'm on loads of drugs,
you're on non Can these drugs make me faster than you?
That the idea of these games.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yes, And also like we don't necessarily want everyone to
be on the drugs. What we want is to see
what happens if there is no drug testing, Like are
you still the world's fastest man?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Because in many ways, and I was reading that they've
been offering like millions of dollars to these current athletes.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
They're talking like, I'll give you a million dollars Cam
to come and swim.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And you don't have to have to take drugs. What
the Olympic Federation is now saying is that even if
you compete and you're not taking any drugs and you
pass all the drug tests, you will still probably be
banned from future Olympic competition because you're bringing the sport
into disrepute because when you think about it, the enhanced
games need the undrugged athletes to lose or to win.
(35:19):
But otherwise it's not interesting. It's just drugs against drata.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
They need to they need like a control. Yeah, this
is what I wonder, because I don't know anything about swimming.
Could I just take loads of steroids and be really,
really good in the point these people don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
They have to, but Hollywood also have to commit to
a training regime, I would say. And as it stands,
and this is early days, and obviously it hasn't happened yet,
but like you've not got roided up swimmers beating Cammack
a voice time, Like you don't have that yet. And
I guess it's a big experiment. But Ariane Tipmus came
out as well and said, not for ten million dollars
(35:56):
would I compete?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It's interesting because I would think if I was a
swimmer who still had a couple of Olympics in me,
I'd probably be like no. But if I was a
swimmer who probably was because they have a short competitive life,
and if I thought my last Olympics was behind, I
would take the money.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Wouldn't you. Well, it's a pretty degrading way to go
out because you know you're going to get smashed. You're
associated with what is essentially going to be a bit
of a freak show. Yeah, and that's why people are
going to tune in because it's going to be these
people with these very enormous malformed bodies from drugs competing
and it's going to be like watching a car craft.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Well, someone could die and that's the thing on.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, you're ruining all my fun, Jesse, I was excited
about the enhanced game, but like.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
The impact that this stuff has on your heart and
like your body, like it's going to.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Be and your penis, yeah and have y. But is
it all sports or it's just swimming?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
So it is a number of sports. I don't think
we know exactly how many are, but swimming has been
the focus because James Magnuson has been a public figure,
like the face of it, the face of it, And
you're right. So World Aquatics came out and said that
you're basically bound by an integrity code and you are
bringing the sports reputation into disrepute because you're kind of
(37:08):
giving validity to this thing that is going to be
held in Vegas and one of the biggest supporters is
Donald Trump Junior, so it's really well respected.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
It's a big money making Yeah, Jaylo might perform. Yeah,
she'll be there swimming. She'd have the best costume.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Chris Joan is pretty enhanced.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
She could be a face a free A massive thank
you to you out louders for being with us here
on today's show in our new home, and to our
fabulous team for putting it all together. We're going to
be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Our Mummy out Loud newsletter, which a lot of you
subscribe to. We're in the process of relaunching. What happens
with the relaunch.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
We're just getting up a few things, we're cooking up.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
A few things. We're going to rest it for a
few weeks. We're doing some work behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Blah blah blah. It's got scaffolding all around.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
It exactly exactly, and you just can't access You can
smell the fresh payment exactly. You can't access the building
for a couple of weeks around it. But then when
the scaffolding comes off, big shine in your building.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Anything you need to find, you find in the show
notes or on our socials. Exactly sorry, self out out
loud as you're smart. Before we go though, We did
a subscriber episode yesterday about one of us having an
ambition crisis, and it was Jesse.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I've already started Yeah, I've already started getting some dms
from some listeners with actually really helpful advice back excellent.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
We needed an intervention, so Holly and I did intervene.
Have a listen to Jesse's crisis. Tell us that if
you think our advice is any good, we'll pop a
link in the show notes and we'll be back in
your ears soon. Bye.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best way to
do so. There's a link in the episode description
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. It was the American
Music Awards gist, and in the absence of any announcement
of a new Taylor Swift album, it served instead as
Jay Low's Hard. She danced to a medley of the
year's biggest song. She passed some dances which got people going,
(00:34):
oh those girls and boys.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
This is me on Instagram after being dumped. This is
like an interpreted dance of my behavior. I'm kissing him,
I'm in a body suit, I'm just looking at hard,
I'm singing all the songs and it was just my
relatable things.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Shaking my very famous booty.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia. Out loud what women
are actually talking about? On Wednesday, the twenty eighth of May,
we are back together and we are in our new studio.
Are we feeling fresh?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Feeling fresh and fancy? Have to say, pods are an
audio medium except when they're not. So we are in
our lovely studio because podcasts have to be videoed now.
So Mum and me moved into a new office this
week and that means new studios for all our podcasts.
And I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I think
our lads is nice.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I feel like I've started a new job.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I was saying to someone before I was walking around,
you know when you're just a bit irritable, And yesterday
I was walking around irritable and I went, you've not
gone to the toilet. You really need to do a week.
But I don't know where the toilet is. And I
had to just say five minutes, going, let's find the toilet.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I saw you a lot yesterday and every time you
just be wandering past, going do you know where the
do you know where the toilet is?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I feel like I've started a new job.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
If you want to see our wonderful new studios, which
are super beautiful and all furnished by the fancy Benton
and Fenton, you'll see them on our socials because all
the videos that we're filming for out Loud, now we're
in our fancy studios and you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It looks like a beautiful apartment.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Well, I don't know that anybody's fancy anyway. Who are
we back to business?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm Holly Wayne right and I'm Jesse Stevens and on
the show. Today, two states have rewritten the rules on
accessing some of the most prescribed meds in the country.
Also the French president his wife and the shove no
one was supposed to see, and the woman being kept
alive for her unborn child. But first Mia.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
In case you missed it, Debory Finesse has officially filed
for divorce from Hugh Jackman. And you might be thinking, wait,
haven't they been divorced for a while, He's got a
new partner, And you'd be right and also wrong. They
were married in nineteen ninety six, so almost thirty years ago,
and then in September twenty twenty three they announced they
(02:51):
were separating, so that's like a good eighteen months ago.
In January this year, Hugh Jackman did his first pap
walk with Sutton Foster, who was a co star in
musical they were both in together in Broadway, and the
timeline of when their relationship started and when his marriage ended,
I think everyone can agree it's a little fuzzy.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
It's a bit fuzzy. And Sutton Foster has also of
course split with her husband. They are also in the
midst of divorce proceedings.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes, so this week. The fact that Debra le filed
means that they've reached a private settlement that has covered
spousal support and all the financial matters. They've got two
kids who I think have both moved out of home.
I think they're over eighteen. The divorce is also uncontested,
so it just needs a judge to sign it off.
(03:42):
There've been reports that there's been quite a lot of
jocking behind the scene, as with any marriage split. But
what's interesting about this is both are leaking a little bit.
And it's interesting because not since January when Sutton Foster
and Hugh Jackman did quite a few pap walks and
they were filmed patching it in and out burger in
the car, they've gone a bit quiet. So there were
(04:04):
some rumors has Hugh Jackman and Sutton Foster broken up? Oh,
but then they popped up a again in what was
again very clearly a pat walk. They seem to be
her moving into his apartment, and then they were dressed
and sort of walking around I think in either La
or New York. The Daily Mail reported this morning that
a source close to Jackman says that he is looking
(04:26):
forward to the future and not looking back, which is
a bit shots fired. And then they said in a
statement sent to Daily Mail, Deborah Lee said, my heart
and compassion goes out to everyone who has traversed the
traumatic journey of betrayal. It's a profound wound that cuts deep. However,
I believe in a higher power and that God, the universe,
whatever you relate to as your guidance is always working
(04:49):
for us.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
The word betrays Yeah, that's not shots fired. That's like
the nuclear button husband push.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So, Daily Mail, how sure are we that that is
a quote by Deborahlely because that feels out of character.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It does. It's interesting, hole and I had the same conversation.
You're the expert in this hole. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I'm not entirely sold that. She said that because
it hasn't been widely reported by more reputable sources. But
Mia said before both sides are leaking. It could be
the kind of thing that oh slips out and then
oh no, I never said that. Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Right I care? I think she's really hurt.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Why would she do that now?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I think probably because they've reached their agreement, And yet
it hasn't been completely stamped. So I imagine within the agreement,
and I'm spitballing, that there would be non disparagement clauses
and that they would agree not to talk about each
other to the press.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
That's a kind of negative way, right the public people
put in divorce correct settlements.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So she might be just getting in this little window
between them agreeing and it being finalized.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh that's interesting. I have a quick question about this.
Why has this not seemed to taint Hugh Jackman's brand?
Why is it that Hugh Jackman still He was recently
in BONDI My sister saw him on the beach. Everyone
was going, Hi, Hugh. He was walking around with his
shirt off, with satin no on his own. Do you
think that it's because he was married to Deborah Lee
for such a long time. He's not the guy that
(06:16):
goes from one woman to another. It does appear that
there was some kind of betrayal. Insiders say that maybe
it was emotional rather than physical. There's no evidence that
they were kind of like hooking up on set and
then Deborah found like, we don't know, but do you
think this will stick to him?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, because he hasn't done anything wrong, like as in,
you know, obviously it's not great if he was still
with Deborah when he met Sutton. But he and Deborah
were together for decades. He was always a real wife guy.
He only ever sang her praises. They were together to
a whole lot of stuff. I entirely understand if she's furious,
of course, but like people have done a lot worse
(06:52):
and there's still big movie stars.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I think if he had had his next relationship with
someone who is in her twenties or even thirties, that
would have been different. And I think maybe if Deborah
Lee was like a beloved national treasure. I think she
is a beloved national. I don't think she's known very well.
I think that one of the things about their relationship
is that she parked her career, so she kind of
(07:14):
stopped acting when they got together for reasons. You know,
they had family in his career was huge, and they
moved all over the world for that, and so people
don't really know much about her, so there's not a
sense of feeling the betrayal on her behalf, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Speaking of hot divorces, it was the American Music Awards
yesterday and in the absence of any announcement of a
new Taylor Swift album, which some people thought was going
to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right when is rep TV coming?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
She just get on with it. She's so lazy, that Taylor,
She's so lazy, or any big names there at all. Really,
it served instead as j Loo's hard relaunch. As we know,
she went through a very painful divorce. Not actually, I
was going to say for the second time, but that's
not true. They never got married the first time, didn't
they she and Ben Affleck. But she went through a
divorce last northern summer and had to cancel her tour.
(08:04):
Remember she's had a few divorces. Well, she said, think
this one was the most public and brutal, very brutal,
and she canceled her tour. And she's been a little
bit licking her wounds since then, but not anymore because
she came out, She hosted, She changed her out for
eight times, very ja Lo. I love that she danced
to a medley of the year's biggest songs like full
choreographed room tunes to like Charlie XYX and Shiboozi and
(08:26):
Kendrick and all the cool tunes. Chapel roone, interestingly, not
her own, not her own. She passed some dancers which
got people going.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh those boys, the girls and boys.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
She's got a big tour this summer in Europe and
the Middle East, and she had Vega States to announce,
so she is like back of the back back, And
there's even a rumored situationship with Lewis Hamilton. The race
Oh I like that for her apparently has always fancied
Jlo and was on the record of sa, yeah, he's
a little bit of a pantsman, but he's on the
(09:00):
record of saying that he really hoped he'd bump into
it at the met Gala one year because he wants
to tell her that he's always loved her. And then
there was a picture of them together at a photo shoot,
like a very posed That's pessional picture.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Everyone needs after a breakup is someone saying I've always true.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
But what I love about j Lo she does nothing
fifty percent right. As Lady Gossip said today, if she
was at your backgyard barbecue, or if she's hosting the
amas its sequence Its dances, it's eight costume changes, it's
a full choreograph routine. We've all got a bit like that.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I saw snippets of this on Instagram and TikTok, and
I thought, this is me on Instagram after being dumped.
This is like an interpretive dance of my behavior on
I'm kissing him, I'm in a body suit, I'm just
looking at hart, I'm singing all the songs, and it
was just relatable.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Things, shaking my very famous booty. I've read a little
bit of backlash about her sort of queer baiting and
kissing women and kissing men, and it was giving a
little bit of two thousand and three Madonna and Brittany.
But I feel like when you watch the whole performance,
which sort of went for seven minutes, that was a
minor part of it, and that's kind of just table stakes. Now.
(10:08):
It's sort of what everybody does to show that they're
modern and relevant. I mean every performer in that way.
That idea of sexual fluidity is kind of like what
you have to do if you're a pop star. But
she also reminded the world that she's a dancer, like
others may sing better than her, others may act better
than her.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I sat through that movie You Made Me started as.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
A dancer, and this is her now.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
You may have seen the news that GPS in New
South Wales will be among the first in Australia to
diagnose and prescribe medication for children and adults with ADHD.
As it stands, most people in the country who are
seeking a diagnosis or ongoing medication for the condition need
to see a pediatrician. For kids or adults need to
(10:56):
see a psychiatrist, which is incredibly expensive and also involves
lengthy wait times, which we've talked about on the podcast before. Yeah,
if you can even find one whose books aren't closed, yeah, yeah, No.
I have people in my life who to wait up
to a year or more. I remember when I first
tried to get an appointment a few years ago, and
it was just coming out of COVID.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
The wait list was two years.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
An appointment can be hundreds and hundreds of.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Dollars five hundred and six thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
So what's happening is For example, the Guardian spoke to
a woman named Suzanne Grobkey who was making an eight
hour round trip. She lives in the mid North coast
of New South Wales and she was making an eight
hour round trip every three months to see a pediatrician
to get access for the medicine for a twelve year
old and doctor Rebecca Hoffman shared in a press release
about this new initiative that families are spending upwards of
(11:46):
five thousand dollars on getting an assessment, a diagnosis, and
the medication.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I understood that, you know, there were gatekeepers for being
diagnosed and getting your first access to that medication, but
once you're on it, I assumed that it was something
a script that your GP could refill, but that's not
the case. And so every I can't remember for six
months or twelve months, I have to have a conversation
with my psychiatrist who died it knows me to just
(12:11):
essentially check in and it's just over telehealth. It doesn't
take long, but it costs several hundred dollars, whereas formality.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Really, yeah, I'm on antidepressants, have been for ten years,
and I can get my script filled just with my GP.
I don't have to say a psychiatrist for that. So
it's different depending on the meds. So what do these
reforms actually mean in practice? So one thousand gps will
be specially trained to provide ongoing ADHD prescriptions.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So not just any GP.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Not just any GP, and so if you want to
go and say can I get a repeat, then they
can do that. One hundred GPS will be enabled to
diagnose and prescribe the medication, so an even fewer amount
will be trained funded by the New South Wales government
to go. You are now able to sit in your
office and diagnose ADHD.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That doesn't seem like a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
It's not a lot, it's not I would guess that
this has a lot to do with regional areas, the
regional areas of New South Wales where it's harder, they
will probably resource. The state government in Western Australia is
putting forward similar proposals in terms of breaking these barriers,
and in Queensland GPS can prescribe certain ADHD meds for
children without specialist approval. So this is an ongoing discussion
(13:20):
around the country and I don't think anyone would be
surprised to see this change in other states over the
coming years. Holly, what are the experts saying in regards
to these reforms.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Well, some psychiatrists are expressing concern over it. I don't
want to be cynical, but I might not find that
that surprising because if the psychiatrists are at the moment
the only people who can do it, and suddenly they
won't be, they may have a little bit of a
territorials Yeah, claim about that, but I'm not obviously saying
that about all psychiatrists. But Dr Patrick mcgury, for example,
(13:53):
wrote an op ed about it a few weeks ago
actually when it was just being proposed, saying that he
really worried it would worsen an over prescription because as
we know, prescribing of ADHD meds has tripled in the
past ten years, like it's skyrocketing forever. Write of complicated reasons.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, it would be surprising if anyone listening right now didn't
know someone who had it or had been diagnosed in
the last few years.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
So he's worried that it will become overprescribed. But gps
are broadly welcoming it, So the College of General Practitioners
are saying that it will have life changing impacts when
it comes to accessing timely and affordable ADHD care for
families across the state. Now, I don't want to offer
opinions about medical matters. I don't know enough about it.
(14:38):
In the diagnostic space. But in my personal experience, it
would be life changing for a GP to be able
to prescribe this kind of medication because my child was
diagnosed when we lived in the city and we were
on a waiting list. And also you just have to
take whoever you can get in the pediatric space who
can do it, which I'm sure they're all qualified and
(14:59):
it's fine, but so you're on a very long waiting list,
then you go through a very difficult and long procedure
to get your prescription. And then when we moved from
the city to the regions, all the waiting lists were
more on the year long. And so you don't want
to let go of your city pediatrician, which is you
know you mentioned in the Introjessea woman from the mid
North Coast in this eight hour trip. You don't want
(15:20):
to let go of that person in the city, So
you're kind of plogging up their books in a way
while you wait to get into this person in your region.
And also you can't be in any way choosy about
the person in your region. You just whoever's got their
books open and whoever can do it, whether they like
it or not. And some pediatricians for very good reasons,
will have their own opinions about whether or not ADHD
(15:42):
meds are being over prescribed, so you might have to
go through another procedure to sort of prove yourself again.
I understand that. But if once my child was diagnosed,
we could just refill the medication at the GP, it
would save time, it would save money, it would just
be a lot easier. But what I don't know, because
I'm not an expert, so I don't want to make
(16:04):
you know blanket claims is I don't know if it
would be a thorough I don't know that. From my
personal experience, I can see why this would be a
desirable shift. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I've read a bit by Patrick mcgurray, who is a
psychiatrist and former Australian of the Year. He does a
lot with youth mental health and his op ed that
he wrote was really interesting because a lot of people
talked about his point about over prescribing, but in fact
he's got more of a focus on what he calls
inappropriate diagnosis, where he says we've got underdiagnosis and overdiagnosis.
(16:38):
So the people who really really need it, like people
in the regions, like kids, who can't get into the
pediatrician are suffering, while you've got other people who, he says,
aren't meeting the criteria. And his concern and again none
of us are experts, but he's a voice I feel
like is interesting in this space. His concern is that
ADHD symptoms crossover with a lot of other complex mental
(17:01):
health disorders, so you would want those gps to be
specialized in actually a number of things so that when
someone comes to you, He says, this thing where you
come seeking a diagnosis is new. Where you sit there
and you go, I have ADHD and I want my
medication is almost a transactional consumerist model that he's sort
(17:23):
of blowing the whistle on and going, what we don't
want is any medication, like medication I take, has side effects,
So we don't want someone to have those side effects
or to have negative impacts if that's not the correct diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And is this all about We've discussed before social media
and in a way the fact that now there is
so much information out there and people diagnosing themselves and others,
and not only with ADHD, but anxiety or whatever. So
when you say people are going into a medical professional
and saying, I have this, give me my meds. It's
because they've ticked all the boxes on that wanting to
(17:58):
be flippant, they've ticked all the boxes on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Or and it's social.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
But he talks about contagion even more broadly than that,
that it is something that you're hearing about and we've
talked about it. I saw a TikTok the other day
that said, if you often find that you're putting your
leg up on a couch, then that could be a
sign and psychiatrist will go it's like a spectrum, like
same as hypertension or blood pressure or whatever, where people
will sit on it. But something being a diagnosis is
(18:22):
how it impacts your life. So he has just kind
of been reluctant, as has doctor Ian Hickey, who is
another really prominent voice. He was on the project last
night talking about it and just saying he's a bit
worried about the inappropriate prescribing and inadequate assessment, because when
you get an ADHD diagnosis, you want a full history.
I mean, the irony of all of this is that
(18:44):
some people who are seeing pediatricians and seeing psychiatrists, they're
not doing the full thing. Because they're so busy that
they don't have that kind of capacity.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Saying I had to jump through a lot of hoops
sounds flipped. But before my diagnosis, I had to go
through a lot of sort of checkpoints. And it wasn't
just a simple oh yeah, here's a checklist, take no ye.
And in fact, I got diagnosed by cologist who specializes,
but she wasn't able to prescribe medication, and I just
(19:13):
assumed that my GP could once I had a diagnosis.
But then I had to start the process again with
a psychiatrist that took a lot longer to get into.
Because it's important to understand that ADHD meds are very
very tightly controlled. They're among the most tightly controlled drugs
that you can be prescribed. You're not allowed to get
your script more than a day or two before it's due.
(19:36):
It's very strict and that's designed to protect people and
to make sure the medication is not being misused. So look,
I don't feel equipped to really have any opinions about
it because I've got my diagnosis and I've got my medication,
and it's really easy to have views about it from
this side of the fence. I share all the concerns
(19:59):
that have been flagged. And I also know what it
can be like to be on a waiting list or
not be able to afford to see someone. You know,
I've got a lot of people in my life. I've
been helped many of them through it. If your life
is unmanageable because you have not been diagnosed and medicated,
it's really unmanageable.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, and a lot of pediatricians have said it can
impact if you're waiting a year, what can happen in
that year in terms of development, in terms of schoolwork,
in terms of like that can be a really distressing
year and it can have developmental impacts if that person
can't get the help they need.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It's true. And I also understand people who are like,
why is half my kids class on ADHD meds? I
also get that.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
In a moment, what the French president has said about
his wife shoving him right in the face. Did we
all see the video of what happened between the French
president Macron and his wife at the open door of
a plane in Vietnam this week?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I could talk about this for one year.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So I've been thinking about.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
If you didn't cameras were focused on Macran he landed
in Hanoi, and they were focused on the door of
the plane. You've seen these shots a million times, like
Head of State walks off play and walks downstairs, right,
But in the split second between you know, the door
opening and Macron stepping into what was supposed to be
the camera frame, you see these two hands in this
(21:21):
red pink coat like pushing him right in the face,
in the face, very shocking, very quick, very sudden. And
then you see Macron gathering himself quite quickly.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
When he realizes that the plane doors open.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yep, and like doing his royal wave and walking down
the stairs.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
What it looked like was that he was shocked at
what had happened. He was engaging with that situation. And
then there's a moment and I'm projecting this. I wasn't there,
but it's as though he looks to see if the
cameras are on him, and he kind of clocks it
and goes, I've got to acknowledge the cameras.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Then, of course, his wife Brigitte walks down the stairs
behind him, wearing the coat, so we know that the
hands were hers. This footage spun around the world in seconds,
and it took about twenty four hours, I think, for
the President to work out how to respond. At first
the line would fake news didn't happen, but by today
it was a joke. Mi chron said, my wife and
(22:15):
I were squabbling. We were rather joking, and I was
taken by surprise. It's become a kind of planetary catastrophe,
and some are even coming up with theories. Have you
two seen these theories? And what do we think is
an appropriate response to something like this being caught on camera,
because I can't think of very many examples of it
(22:36):
happening before.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Well, imagine if the genders had been reversed, it would
have been a very different story for a lot of
very understandable reasons. So I don't think you can always
apply that equivalency. But I think we have no choice
but to take him at his word. I mean, what
can you do if he says that we can't say
(22:57):
it was something other than what he says it was,
which is just mucking around.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And can we say what we think we saw? Because
it looks pretty damning from my I went and watched it,
and as always happens, you get the commentary before you
watch it. But it does look damning.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
It looks as it doesn't look like joking around.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
It doesn't look like joking around.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So the other thing that complicates it, right, is that
there's a big corner of the Internet who hate Macron
and constantly spread theories about him and his wife. Right,
because he and his wife have I think we can
say unconventional history.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Remind me, Brigitte.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Is seventy two and Macron is forty seven. Exactly how
it all went down, we don't know. But we do
know that they met when he was fifteen and she
was thirty nine.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Here's what we do.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, wait, was she his teacher?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yes, so she had three children and was married when
she met Emmanuel Macron who was fifteen and in her
daughter's class. And Emmanuel Macron's parents thought that he was
seeing the daughter, that there was a relationship going on,
and then they have found they've spoken in this book
where they then found out that it wasn't that he
was seeing this.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
The woman who of his classmate.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Of his the mother of his classmate, and she has
said basically when things started and when their relationships started,
and when they knew it was special, is not for
anyone else to know they haven't shared that.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's very Mary Kay Laturno and Villie Flower. Remember, I
mean he was twelve, but she was I think his
teacher or worked at his school or something. And she
ended up going to jail but had children with him,
and they ended up after she got released from jail,
they got married.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
So I was thinking about the age gap is similar
to if Anthony ALBERIZI had a wife who was my age, right,
that's probably like a similar age gap and age gaps whatever.
I think that the part about this story that troubles
people is how old they were when they met.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, that's the bit that troubles people.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
They have been together for decades and decades now though,
right the people who were very invested in the conspiracy
theories because they are always everywhere. They also like to
spread the rumor that she is transgender, which appears to
be entirely false. They like to spread rumors like the
fact that they say he was doing cocon of train
earlier this year. Did you see that there was a
(25:08):
video of him on a train with the German Chancellor
and the UK Prime Minister and he was picking up
a tissue. But there's a large section of the internet
who believes it was a bag of white powder. Broadly,
they like to paint him as a sort of short, inauthentic,
girly man like in direct contrast to say, a tall
alpha like one Donald Trump. The theory of why these
(25:30):
conspiracy theories go so fast is broadly because of his
very strong support of Ukraine and criticism of Russia.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So there are lots of people on the Internet who
love to spin the macron theory. And that's why if
you've seen memes and videos of this go around fast,
a lot of them say things like gurly Man gets slapped,
and you know they're because the.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Problem with this so it's the Russian bot farms. It is,
and that's what he has seen it.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It's in the Russian bot farms. But the problem is
this video is rare, so it doesn't help the conspiracy theories,
which I'm not suggesting any of them are true at all,
But this is one of those situations where something happens
that falls deliciously almost into the hands of the people
who want to believe these things about him.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Anyway, But isn't not all those conspiracy theories, That's not
what this relates to. Like, the worst reading of this
is that it was DV, that it's somehow an abusive relationship.
Now we don't know what happened just before the door opened,
and also what he said might be true. They might
have just been mucking around.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
No way, and he has said in his statement, and
I actually really respect this position. Is he came out
and said that video is real. He could have said
it was fair. If it was Donald Trump, he'd have
said it was fake. You denied, yeah, but he's gone,
that was real. And the video where you thought me
doing cocaine is real. It was actually a tissue. And
just I have detractors who were really uncomfortable with my
(26:50):
relationship with Zelenski and my support of Ukraine. And this
is the Internet going into overdrive. But the way that
it has now been narrativized or positioned is saying this
is humiliating for France. Look how weak France is.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yes, emasculated, that's what all of this is about, right,
It's not what that video was about. But all of
the conspiracy theory stuff is about that. It's about emasculating him,
which is the narrative about this bossy older wife who
may or maybe not abuses him, and it is possibly
even not even who she says she is, and all
of these things, and look how weak and pathetic France is.
(27:27):
The problem is is this video being real really doesn't
help any of that stuff, and he is going to
be in real.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Trouble, which tells us something about how we view men
who experience violence at the hands of their female partners,
which is that it has been made fun of, it
has been undermined, it has been an example of how
he's not man enough. There's no way that the undercurrent
of like making fun of him would exist if this
(27:53):
were the other way around, which I think is really
sad and troubling. After the break, the real life story
of the woman being kept alive to incubate her unborn child.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
in the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week, and a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
There's a story coming out of the US that is
raising a lot of questions around not just abortion laws,
but around the ethics and what you believe constitutes human life.
Three months ago, a woman called Adrianna Smith. She's a
thirty year old nurse and a mother from Atlanta, Georgia.
She was experiencing severe headaches and she was nine weeks
(28:49):
pregnant at the time. This is back in February. She
was discharged after she turned up at hospital and sent
home without scans, and her boyfriend found her the next
day collapsed, rushed her back to hospital and she had
blood clots in her brain and she was declared brain dead.
As I said, she has a boyfriend and also a
seven year old son.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
In Georgia, there's something called the Life Act which came
into effect in twenty nineteen, and it bans all abortions
after six weeks, except in the case of rape, incest,
or maternal life endangerment, and there is no exception for
brain dead patients. So now Adriana since that day has
been on life support at Emory University Hospital. It's been
(29:32):
three months so far. The fetus is now twenty three
weeks and doctors plan to keep her there essentially as
a human incubator, until she has reached thirty two weeks gestation,
at which time they feel they can probably birth the
baby via cesarian section, and her family will then be
(29:52):
left to choose what to do with her.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
This is because when she went in there, they could
detect that the baby had a heartbeat, and so it
was against the law correct to curatically turn off her.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Linda, what would happen in Australia, Like this sounds really
a really dumb question, but I had never can this
scenario before.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, this wouldn't happen in Australia, but the Georgia Attorney
General's Office claims that the law doesn't require life support
for brain dead patients if they're pregnant. But the hospitals
fear liability because there are a lot of groups who
will then use this and try to sue the hospital
and embroil them in a whole legal thing and try
(30:32):
to sue the doctors, and the doctors could go to
jail or the nurse or whoever it is literally unplugs
the machine could be charged with murder.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I wonder what the mother would have wanted, That's my
big question.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, and I also want to know what her family want.
I think that changes how I feel about this story.
Like if everybody involved is like, this is not what
she would have wanted. Then it's a different story in
a way to if her family is saying she would
have absolutely wanted this.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Nobody can know what she would have wanted because she
was an otherwise seemingly healthy thirty year old woman who
was newly pregnant. Her boyfriend was the father of that child.
He hasn't given a state yet. And this family actually
hasn't spoken much except for her mother, and she has
given very limited sort of commentary. But her name's April Newkirk,
(31:20):
and what she has said is that the family might
have continued the pregnancy, but they wanted the autonomy of
whether or not to do that. And she's in one
statement she's given, she said, it's torture for me. I
see my daughter breathing, but she's not there. We should
have had a choice. My grandson may be blind, he
may not be able to walk because the other thing
(31:41):
is that there've been complications with the fetus. There's been
fluid on the brain detected, potential blindness and mobility issues.
The hospital hasn't commented, and her mother has said, I'm
not suggesting we would have chosen to enter her pregnancy.
I'm emphasizing that we should have had the option. It
should have been left up to the family.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Of course, because even from nutrition to all of the
things that a fetus is able to absorb from a
mother like this woman isn't there Like I just I
had never considered this.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And the financial hardship placed on the family. So yeah,
what happens exactly? Her boyfriend and seven year old son
are coming to visit her every day. Now, how do
you explain to a seven year old And Adriana's mother
has said this, you know, he comes and he visits
his mother, but with no hope that she might recover.
Like it's done. She's not going to survive on her
(32:34):
own as soon as the tube is taken out. So
it's just the most handmade's tale type of story. And
this is the kind of thing that's happening in America
now since Roversus Wade was repealed, and these draconian laws
are being applied not in every state, but in a
lot of states. And it really sees a woman and
(32:57):
a woman's body as purely a vessel with no legal rights,
no autonomy, but just essentially a human incubator.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Before we go, do you too know much about the
enhanced games.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
But I'm excited because they sound like they're better than
just normal games.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I saw a picture of James Magnuson the swimmer looking
like he'd been pumped up with a bicycle pump, like,
just looking so steroided up.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
He essentially has. So the Enhanced Games is like the Olympics,
but for people who want to take all the drugs.
So it's the Olympics on steroids and literally ill on steroids.
And it's the brainchild of an Ossie businessman named Aaron Desuza,
and it is set to happen in May next year.
But the reason there are so many headlines about it
at the moment is because World Aquatics, so the like
(33:46):
swimming organization, has come out and said the event is
like clowns, jruggling knives is their quote, and they will
sanction athletes who compete even if they haven't used performance
enhancing drugs.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So are the athletes competing who aren't planning on using
performance enhancing drugs?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Well, James Magnuson, so he's an Ausi swimmer who has
competed in two Olympics, and he a few weeks ago
called out to Cam macavoy and Cam Macavoy is the
Aussie who won the fifty meters freestyle, so he's like
the world's fastest swimmers.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
He's like a current Olympian, current Olympic champion.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, does not take drugs. And he did a call
out to Cam and said, I want you to compete
in the enhanced Game.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
So the idea is like, I'm on loads of drugs,
you're on non Can these drugs make me faster than you?
That the idea of these games.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yes, And also like we don't necessarily want everyone to
be on the drugs. What we want is to see
what happens if there is no drug testing, Like are
you still the world's fastest man?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Because in many ways, and I was reading that they've
been offering like millions of dollars to these current athletes.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
They're talking like, I'll give you a million dollars Cam
to come and swim.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And you don't have to have to take drugs. What
the Olympic Federation is now saying is that even if
you compete and you're not taking any drugs and you
pass all the drug tests, you will still probably be
banned from future Olympic competition because you're bringing the sport
into disrepute because when you think about it, the enhanced
games need the undrugged athletes to lose or to win.
(35:19):
But otherwise it's not interesting. It's just drugs against drata.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
They need to they need like a control. Yeah, this
is what I wonder, because I don't know anything about swimming.
Could I just take loads of steroids and be really,
really good in the point these people don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
They have to, but Hollywood also have to commit to
a training regime, I would say. And as it stands,
and this is early days, and obviously it hasn't happened yet,
but like you've not got roided up swimmers beating Cammack
a voice time, Like you don't have that yet. And
I guess it's a big experiment. But Ariane Tipmus came
out as well and said, not for ten million dollars
(35:56):
would I compete?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It's interesting because I would think if I was a
swimmer who still had a couple of Olympics in me,
I'd probably be like no. But if I was a
swimmer who probably was because they have a short competitive life,
and if I thought my last Olympics was behind, I
would take the money.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Wouldn't you. Well, it's a pretty degrading way to go
out because you know you're going to get smashed. You're
associated with what is essentially going to be a bit
of a freak show. Yeah, and that's why people are
going to tune in because it's going to be these
people with these very enormous malformed bodies from drugs competing
and it's going to be like watching a car craft.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Well, someone could die and that's the thing on.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, you're ruining all my fun, Jesse, I was excited
about the enhanced game, but like.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
The impact that this stuff has on your heart and
like your body, like it's going to.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Be and your penis, yeah and have y. But is
it all sports or it's just swimming?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
So it is a number of sports. I don't think
we know exactly how many are, but swimming has been
the focus because James Magnuson has been a public figure,
like the face of it, the face of it, And
you're right. So World Aquatics came out and said that
you're basically bound by an integrity code and you are
bringing the sports reputation into disrepute because you're kind of
(37:08):
giving validity to this thing that is going to be
held in Vegas and one of the biggest supporters is
Donald Trump Junior, so it's really well respected.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
It's a big money making Yeah, Jaylo might perform. Yeah,
she'll be there swimming. She'd have the best costume.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Chris Joan is pretty enhanced.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
She could be a face a free A massive thank
you to you out louders for being with us here
on today's show in our new home, and to our
fabulous team for putting it all together. We're going to
be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Our Mummy out Loud newsletter, which a lot of you
subscribe to. We're in the process of relaunching. What happens
with the relaunch.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
We're just getting up a few things, we're cooking up.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
A few things. We're going to rest it for a
few weeks. We're doing some work behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Blah blah blah. It's got scaffolding all around.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
It exactly exactly, and you just can't access You can
smell the fresh payment exactly. You can't access the building
for a couple of weeks around it. But then when
the scaffolding comes off, big shine in your building.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Anything you need to find, you find in the show
notes or on our socials. Exactly sorry, self out out
loud as you're smart. Before we go though, We did
a subscriber episode yesterday about one of us having an
ambition crisis, and it was Jesse.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I've already started Yeah, I've already started getting some dms
from some listeners with actually really helpful advice back excellent.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
We needed an intervention, so Holly and I did intervene.
Have a listen to Jesse's crisis. Tell us that if
you think our advice is any good, we'll pop a
link in the show notes and we'll be back in
your ears soon. Bye.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If
you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing to MoMA mia is the very best way to
do so. There's a link in the episode description
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