December 11, 2025 • 47 mins
It's the time of the year when you have to rub up against other people in all kinds of ways. And so obviously Jessie, Holly and Em needed to bring an updated etiquette guide. So, what's a great question, what's a rude one and do you always, always need to give a gift receipt?
And, are you struggling to make a big decision about the new year? Of course you are. We have a new framework to help: Is this a Hat, Haircut or Tattoo problem?
Plus, a dilemma for the ages: Is a straight man cheating if he continually 'likes' another woman’s Instagram posts? Thankfully, a court has cleared this up.
And of course, recommendations: Something to make life easier, something to make yourself smell lovely and something to make the Gen Xers feel smug.
Support independent women's media
Em recommends the Ouai hair and body mist in the scent St Barts
Jessie recommends the Dinner Ladies Christmas dishes
Holly recommends the essay in the New York Times, Is Gen X Actually the Greatest Generation? and creating a lucky dip of loved Christmas movies using an empty jar.
What To Listen To Next:
- Listen to our latest episode: Jessie's Twin Pregnancy Update: They're Doing What Now?
- Listen: The Performers Who Have Had Enough Of Australia
- Listen: Things You Fantasise About When You're Single
- Listen: The Most Surprising Relationship Red Flag
- Listen: The Seven Year Friendship Rule
- Listen: The 6 Different Types Of People Pleasers
- Listen: The Thing You Can’t Say About Having Kids
- Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
Watch Mamamia Out Loud:
What to read:
- An expert told us there are 5 things a partner will do before they cheat on you.
- 'Just 10 Christmas gifts that won't end up in the "re-gift" pile.'
- Exactly what to wear to your work Christmas party, according to a fashion editor.
- A definitive list of the 13 best Christmas movies of all time.
- My boss is about to become my mother-in-law. So I wrote a list of 7 rules for her to follow.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to I'm MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Have you decided what you want for your birthday?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh? I've told Brent what I want and I hope
he was paying attention. Yeah, yeah, because I want my
little Bunning's glass greenhouse thing. Jesus crash this beautiful necklace.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Okay, Okay, god no, I think it's better to have
those lists because my mom.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I used to be like nearly my whole life until
the last few years. I'm like a surprise me person
because I love surprises, like I genuinely do. But it's
just twenty years of missus twenty years.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Yeah, it's just like it's time to just ask.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
It's time exactly. He's a lovely man that this is
not his strength. Yes, yeah, time to be specific, you know,
save us all a little bit of aggs, send some cash. Hello,
and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women
are actually talking about on Friday, the twelfth of December.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm Wayne right, I'm m vern Em and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
And here's what made our agenda for today. It's been
a dilemma for the ages. Is a straight man cheating
if he likes other women's posts on Instagram. Yes, Thankfully,
for those of us who are a little bit more
conflicted than them, a court has cleared this up.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
It is also social season, and we are well overdue
for an Ediica guide where we tell you exactly how
to behave because we're well equipped.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
And if you're struggling to make a decision at the moment,
ask yourself, is it a hat, a haircut, or a tattoo.
We stumbled across a decision framework that promises to change
your life.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
But first, as I mentioned, there has often been debate
about whether or not it's okay to like other people's
posts on social media. So if you're a straight man
in a relationship with a woman, is it okay for
you to like other women's posts? Now? I have always
said yes, I don't own your life likes, but you
m say absolutely not. Give me some context here about it.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Firstly, if it's going to be a like that's going
to embarrass me as your girlfriend, you can't be liking
that photo.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
What kind of light would embarrass you?
Speaker 5 (02:21):
A photo of a model who doesn't even know you exist,
and you're constantly liking every single photo she posts, She's
going to see.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It so like Siddy Sweeney, let's say official account. Presumably
she posts something she gets a million likes when she posts.
If your significant other is one of the people who
likes that, you don't like that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I think that's a bit embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
It's embarrassing.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
I actually have a story here, and I can't believe
I witnessed this firsthand. I was dating a guy and
he was looking at a photo from Selena Gomez and
it was a carousel, and it was like, the first
one was like her looking really really sexy, and he
liked it, and the second one was her with Benny Blanco,
and then he like.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
A witness that I was dating here. I think this
lovely deluded gentleman thought that Selena might be like, I'm
looking through the lists of all the names. She's the
most followed person. I'm looking through the lists of all
the names to decide who I might go on a
random date with.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
You, and like, she doesn't need your like, whereas if
your partner is liking a photo of Dame Judy dench
yeplay on.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Okay, this is confusing. So it's lucky that some courts
around the world have ruled on this. You might have
seen some headlines around the place that in the country Turkia,
which is in like southeast Europe, a divorce court has
just ruled that a husband's interacting with other women on
social media platforms did constitute cheating, and it's being reported
(03:53):
around the world this particular case as a kind of
world first proof that Instagram liking is cheating. Now, obviously
there's a lot more going on here, there's a lot
more going on in this relationship. There's a lot more
going on in this this particular divorce case, but it
is the first time that the court held up an
action that said social media, including likes on photos of
(04:15):
the opposite sex, can be interpreted as conduct undermining trust
and dignity in a marriage. Such online behavior, the court said,
may justify divorce when it causes emotional harm and erodes
the foundation of the relationship. And in that particular case,
when the woman was saying, part of why I'm divorcing
(04:36):
this dude, is he continually doing that liking connecting with
women on Instagram. I don't like it was one of
the reasons why the court ruled in her favor. So
people are seeing this. It's not exactly as simplistic as this,
of course, but they're saying this is the first time
that liking an Instagram post has contributed to a cheating
(04:58):
not prosecution. What's the word well inclaim.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
In Australia we have no fault divorce. Yeah, so if
you and your partner get divorced, no one needs to
prove that it was someone else is fault, right, whereas
in other places in the world you do prove fault.
And this is a way of going he was at
fault because he was liking.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And that thought you might be getting better, more favorable
divorce settlement exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
And what I want in court is I need that
picture displayed.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I need it displayed.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
I need us to prosecute the nuance of that photo.
Is it a graduation photo of an ex where we're
just encouraging her future endeavors clap clap, look at you go?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Or is that allowed by the way I think we're
allowed to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Whereas if it is a your ex is taken up
bikini modeling and there's eleven photos in a carousel and
he's like con zooming and he's going on the Instagram
stories fire emojing exactly, and maybe a DM going it
looks like you're well, that crossing a line and I
need a judge to say that, like I need a
(06:05):
judge to say it, and then a ward.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
And I think it's also the where in the claim
it says that he was constantly doing that, so I
can imagine there would have been a conversation of her going,
I don't like when you do this, and he does it,
And you can tell exactly how much they do it
by their Instagram explore page. If you go onto someone's
Instagram explore page, and I assume with this person here,
(06:28):
his Instagram explore page is just all these.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Women in bikinis. They are like, you have a tendency.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
To like a lot, whereas mine is all left one drivers,
which is me in my personal business.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But this is why this is murky, right Jesse, Like
this particular divorce, ACiE, we don't know the particulars here,
but like, in general, is it illegal for your partner
to like looking at pictures of women and bikinis on Instagram?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You heard the court It is a little bit legal.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
It is, And in fact, I would like I would
like to have their eyes to add in another piece
of legislation that I think is missing, okay, which is
my mum in law does still like and I've spoken
about this before, photos of Luca's X and I just
it's time.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
To stop it.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
She's trolling you, She's trolling me, And it's like.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Is Luca allowed to like those photos? Look?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
When I brought it up on this podcast a year ago,
it does appear he has stopped. Mother in law was
a different level though, because I feel as though she's
too encouraging.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Do you think she's also in the DMS going how
are you doing?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We miss you? We miss you in this family?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
And I think that when there's a court, when Luca
and I go to court over something, I'm going to
be bringing that up. This lady has been too encouraging
to the exes, and I don't appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It feels pointed.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
So social season is amongst us, which means that it's
time where people on the internet tell other people on
the internet how to behave Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Us included Yes.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
A subject writer named Hannah Park published a piece titled
modern day social Etiquette you should live.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And die by.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Now.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
This is not like a fancy, fancy etiquette guide where
you're making like a five course meal. This is for
people who just happen to attend things during the social season.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And get easily confused.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
And we've done a few of these for our subscriber
out Louders.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
In fact, we have one subscriber episode coming up specifically
about Christmas, New Year and the holiday season. But then
this one I just found during like a very busy
social period. I just need some guidance. And there are
a few things on there that I'm doing that I
didn't realize.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
We're rude, Okay, can I read out some Yes, always
pour someone else's water or wine before your own.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
This is a lesson that Jesse has learned.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, I'd be explicitly told by someone I used to
work with, and I think of her every time I
do it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Now. I didn't know we had to do that. Of
course you have to do that, oh my god, because
sometime sometimes.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
They're quite heavy, so you know when you pick it up,
and I can't be doing this.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Before God, or at least you offer.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You have to offer an intolerance to water, and you
don't want.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
To, you don't want to present them. It tastes like spin.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
No, that's why you should always just give you.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So if you go like this and they go you up,
that's fine. Don't lick your fingers. Oh, I always like
tricky because the thing like finger food is tricky. You know,
like if you're at a fancy event and somebody is
bringing around finger food, you know how they always offer
(09:37):
you a CANape and a napkin.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Do you call it a CANape?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I call it a cap It's called a can I
think I'm just being stupid.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Cannot pey and a napkin.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But you've got a glass in hand, so you never
take the napkin because then you're in a pickle, a pickle.
Then you don't know what what to do, so you eat,
and then you've got to lick your fingers or wipe
a mod dress?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You do you got a fancy dress.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You don't want to do that. Some people who lick
their fingers make it quite audible.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I know what you may.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I also think over the way kend I was indulging
in a cheesel, which I hadn't had. No, while you
can't eat a cheesel without looking, licking.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Fingers is the best bit.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
It's the best bit because you've got the salt on it. Like,
what am I meant to do with my cheesel?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You know what you do? You roll it between.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
And I like, sprinkle it into your mouth.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I'm really glad that.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We've nailed the cheesel etiquette in this holiday guide. Early on.
That is the weirdest shit I've ever heard. It's so good.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
It's extra flavor. It's like an extra back.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
Okay, if you know the name of a bird or
plant while walking outside with friend, share it with the group.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Such nonsense.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I just disagree, like, I rather not. I rather walk
to silence.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know that. I will totally do that, Yeah, because
you know how I am with my nature and even
I know that's annoying when people come to stay with
us where we live down the coast and walk around,
I go, look at that, that's a great heron.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Look at that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That's a plover. Look at that it's a Pelican. Nobody
wants They all look like the same bird. Nobody wants that.
So I just have to say it inside my head, like, yes, Holly,
you do know things, Okay.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
When someone tells a story, ask a follow up question
before telling your own.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I loved this.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
I think it's a really simple way to make sure
that you don't get into that dynamic of both of
you just monologuing or whatever. And sometimes I go, you know,
you'll find yourself midway through a conversation and go I've
been talking too much, and you try and diffuse it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I like that as just like, yeah, always ask something
else or I just wait for your.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
T If you're telling a story and you can tell
they just want to say something, yeah what they think
is better.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is very nice, polite.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Light.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
If you're telling a story and then someone else starts
telling their story, don't look at your phone.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Well, if you're one up in my story, I'm looking
at my phone.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Who I see this all the time. I see this
all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
In a group setting, someone will speak and then when
they're done speaking and someone else starts speaking.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
And often it'll be one person.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It could be the quieter person at the table, could
be someone who said less, I see someone touch the
and I think that is the root of single pin.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Okay, where should the phone be?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Never within eyesight, not on the table or anything, unless
you are my obstecution.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Or maybe a parent with the baby at home with
a babysitter. Yeah, but then these days we've often got watches.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Vibrate for that, aren't we Aren't we paying the babysitter
to sort it.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I just feel like that's none of your business.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Or maybe a single girl, if you have a better lineup, yeah, true, true, yeah,
but if you can check that.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's why phone belongs in pocket. When you go do
a way, check your phone. But I don't think we
are doing it within because when one person pulls their
phone out, everything's ruined. Everyone's checking their phone and we've
just broken the like social.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Code its bond offer to help old people walk up
the stairs or across the streets.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, of course, duh. But just be careful what your
boundary of old people.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Is, because Holly hates it when I offer. When I
say to her, do you need help in the lift?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You can really poised at the social event if you
get that wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Okay, I understand the difference between nice questions versus nosy questions.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
This is very tricky. I don't think I know what
this is.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So apparently it's nosy and rude to ask what someone
does for living, or like how's work going?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Or something to do?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
With work.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
The general consensus, and what this article said was that
that's a rude question and you have to get more creative.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That's that's the first thing I asked me too. So
this is interesting because I'm finding that I've got less
and less tolerance for small talk as I get older.
I don't know if it's the hormones. I don't know if
it's the age or what it is. But I used
to be quite a fan of small talk. I remember
years ago coaching you Jesse on office small talk, because
I was like, it's important, it's the social code. You
just how is your weekend fine? How was your weekend fine?
(14:01):
But my tolerance for it is dropping. And do you
remember there was an article in The Guardian a while
ago from a woman who even up small talk. Yes,
And this was interesting because she had some suggestions, because
often the suggestions for this are too intense, things like
what's bringing you joy today? Like I don't want a
stranger to ask me that, But she said that was.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Exactly I find that question.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
This article was written by Claire Easton, was in the Guardian.
She's a writer and she had to go to like
a sort of event where she didn't know very many
people that normally would be small talk, but she'd sworn
off it. The first person I spoke to at the
show as a freelance photographer, what's your star side? I asked, Oh,
I feel like I have to know about star signs
I believe, looked pleasantly surprised, and then answered Aquarius and
(14:46):
we spoke comfortably for ten minutes. The next person I encountered,
I asked, what was your art teacher at school? Like?
By the end of the evening I had several fun
and enjoyable conversations. My rules were simple without being rude.
I would quickly deflect all questions about well being, where
they're transport, or children's academic achievements, and offer instead something
I found genuinely interesting. When Barista asks, how are you
(15:08):
enjoying the sun? I pivoted to I like spring, but
autumn is my favorite season. What's yours? What do we
think about this? What do we think about more interesting questions?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
I agree that we can get to more interesting places.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I think you can sound like you're forcing it a bit.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You can't row a dog in an interesting question.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
The one that I like is because I will see
a lot of people over this period where, to be
completely honest, I've forgotten what they do for work. I'm
not sure if they're working at the moment. Yep, I
don't know if they're retired. I don't like I just
haven't been keeping up. And so what you're meant to
say is what's been keeping you busy?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And I quite like.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
That, Hey, uncle, blah, what's been keeping you busy? And
then at least it's open, and then you can kind
of follow them there rather than making any assumptions about
what their life looks like at the moment.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Yeah, I actually like that. I have one uncle who
known since I was born. Every single year at Christmas,
he always asks me where do I work?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And I've only worked at one place.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, every single year.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I was thirty before one uncle stopped saying how's boost juice?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
But I still enjoy This is the problem with small talk, right,
is that no one's really listening, no one really cares,
no one's going to remember. Obviously, I find it awkward
to jump into something deep with people you don't know
very well. I don't think you should necessarily do that.
But something about the world, something about the day that's
not you know, just how are you busy? How are
(16:34):
you busy? Or you know, like, I don't know. I
just think we've got to be better than that. And
I haven't quite cracked it.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
But I think sometimes it's stepping stones, right, And then
you come across something really interesting, but you can't force it,
and you also don't want to sound like you're prying,
which I guess is the point about being nosy. There
are some people who are going into this season with
things they really don't want to talk about, well with bruises,
they don't want pressed.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
If you're emotionally intelligent, you can tell that. So if
I say to you, how are you and your eyes
filled with I'm going to change your subject ye pretty fast.
I like saying, what have you been watching lately?
Speaker 6 (17:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
No, no, I do. I do like that. I do
like everyone reads yeah, but everyone watches something.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It's very true.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
We want to jump into though, Hi, uncle Bob, what
have you been watching lately? That over watch your.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Start signed Bob, And then like Aquarius, I'm like, I
don't know anything.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Anything about that, and now we're stuck.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And now it was stuck.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
There was one that I realized I've been doing that
I didn't know was rude. But I will stop, which
is apparently you've got to stop walking into places, whether
that is a restaurant, a venue, a home and ask
for a phone charge.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
That apparently is very rude, rude. I've done it at
the gym.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I've done it at like I am constantly asking strangers
to charge my phone and it's like, I need to
sort out the battery life on my phone.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's what I need.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, but then you have to remember to charge the portable.
I never do. People bought me those before, and I'm like,
you are assuming that I have ever gott to charge
this if I can't charge my phone, But it's correct.
I do like that one in here where the etiquette
is like don't leave the house with uncharged devices. Brent
never has this device charged. He's always like, I'm nearly
out of juice.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
He says, day, can't charge your phone, Come on now.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I also liked if you find yourself in an interaction
where someone is cleaning, join them in cleaning. I went
through all the comments on this and there were just
really good basic ones. And you often do see You'll
be in a situation where a woman is in the
kitchen cleaning dishes, and someone will talk at her.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
It might be me and holding a glass of wine
trying to scrub around the elbow.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, mum, do you know where the rest of the
wine is? And Mum's just like sweating and stuff, and
it's like you, no, you should probably pick up a teacher.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I wonder if there's a line in that, out louders,
We'll have to tell us, because very good rule of thumb.
If you're at someone's house and they're hosting you and
there cleaning, always jumping off for help, some people do
not like you're doing that. Some people are get upset
about and then because also you're going to have come
with a lot of questions to that situation. Where does
this go? Where does that go?
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Cloth?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Where's your glasses? Where's your both? Some people don't like that.
I like that. I'm like, go for your life, clean
as much as you like. I'm going to go sit
down with my wine and you're going to clean up
the kitchen. But I'd love to know what out loud,
I think the line is about that one.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, yeah, true, true.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
I think it's like even get everything away, like collecting
things and putting them in the sink at least, is
like you've done some of the job.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Look like you're doing something.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Just fiddle, yeah, wipe a table, yeah, fiddle and even
put ttawel in left hand, right hand, left hand, right hand,
but just appear to be helping.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
That's absolutely moving around.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I liked as well. Understand the purpose of a group chat.
It is not for logistics, it's not for disagreements. Those
should happen one on one.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
This is genius. As we've talked about a few times,
I'm not as into group chats as everybody else because
I just find it overwhelming. And this is particularly what
I hate about them is where people are fighting about
things or where people are just saidlessly going is it
two or is it three?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, this isn't the place.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Okay, But how about we were speaking recently about what
dish you bring, and I have group chats that are
just like I'm bringing the salad, I'm bringing the rolls,
I'm bringing the bla. I prefer to be told what
to bring. Is that just a passive thing. I'll just
wait till the end, give me the shit thing. But like,
I'm not going to jump in when the group chat's
going off with everyone with their special things, because you
(20:41):
get fifty four messages and then you go, I don't know,
I don't know what's left?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Is someone writing this?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:47):
I think there needs to be an organizer. So yeah,
no what everyone's bringing, because one time I did go
to a Christmas thing and there were five salads, yeah,
and like three prawns.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah, that was it.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Exactly allocate, allocate people's strengths.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I have one last etiquete question.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I wanted to ask, Oh, yes, because I saw this
in the comments and oh I didn't know this.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
When you give someone.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
A gift, you should always give them the gift receipt.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Do you do this no, so they can exchange it?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Do you think there's a price, because I decided that
if it's less than thirty bucks, I'm not giving them
the gift receipt, and if it's a child, I'm probably
not giving them the gift receipt. Right, But if I've
spent a decent amount of money on a family member
and there's a chance I need to exchange or it's
not quite right, what do we think?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
That's really interesting? Because I think it's rude to give
the gift receipt really but maybe that's an individual thing.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Because a gift re seat doesn't say how much it was,
but it entitles you to go on.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, maybe it depends, like if it's an item of clothing, yes, yeah,
because sizing is an issue. Okay, But otherwise I think
it's a bit rude because it kind of says, I
bought you this thing, but you might hate it. I
think we should be assuming that you're gonna like it.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
I have been occasions where I've given a gift receipt
because I want them to enjoy the gift I'm giving,
but I don't give it to them.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Straight like that. I just say I have the receipt.
If you do want something else, offer from this website.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I remember getting a few books for Christmas and there
was a gift recept accompanied, and I thought that was
a good case.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Because you might have had some of those.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I might have had them, I might have read them,
I might have whatever, And that's a really easy thing
to go and exchange or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I think it's really funny. I always think that's about
gifts when it's Christmas, is that part of giving a
gift is that it's supposed to be somebody else's vision
of you, right, Like, it's not just about the thing itself.
Otherwise we just all give each other money. And obviously
you do give people money, like teenagers just want money
or things. But if you've gone to the trouble of
(22:56):
choosing a thing for a person, I think it's a
bit transactional to always just be like, oh, you could
just have the one hundred dollars, you know what I mean? Yeah,
I know, because an ideal world you've chosen and that
person should at least pretend that they like it, Like
if it doesn't fit or if you've already got it
or anything like that, then sure.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
But like, but something very personal like jewelry given books,
like I would find that's like such a personal gift.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
But if I brought you a necklace, right and you
hated it and so you just went and swapped it
for a hat.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Yeah, it sounds likely.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Just wasteful, a bit like, well I didn't buy you
that at all, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
But it's more about you.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Than then you'd be like, where's that necklace and be
like a home, would.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You like my new hat?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I'm going to put a pole in the out Louders
Facebook group about whether we think it is polite etiquette
to include a gift receipt, because that is.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Something I cannot quite decide.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Out louders in a moment, is the decision you're currently
facing a hat, a haircut, or a tattoo we discuss.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Out louders.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
We've got a listener dilemma, and we need your collective
wisdom to help us and our partners UI solve it.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Please.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Here is the problem. From an out louder. I have
a work and family dilemma. I work with my mother
in law and we get along fine, except her perfume.
It gives me a headache on the good days and
a full migraine on the worst days. I've asked her
repeatedly not to wear perfume to work, and have told
her when I've had to go home with centrigered migraines,
but she still wears it every day and it causes
(24:43):
me pain. Please help me find a way to get.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Her to stop once and for all. The question is
what do you do next?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You can tell I could barely wait to jump in
on this because this is a meedy one. Yeah, Because
the thing is, is this a passag maneuver? Because if
she knows it's giving her daughter and Laura, ifn you're
an expert in this particular Jesse, she knows it's giving
her order Laura headache. Or do you think that maybe
she doesn't believe it? You know how, there's a sort
of sometimes that oh, such a snowflake with your eye
(25:17):
roll migrains, like you know what I mean? That kind
of vibe perfume can be.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
It's a very personal firing.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Some people feel undressed without it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yes, yes, and you can wear it for years and years.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Like it's a big thing to ask someone with someone
not to wear it, Like I understand that, and it's
an awkward thing to broach. I would say something along
the lines of.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think I might be allergic to your perfume. How
annoying is that?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And I would just kind of put it on me
and go like, I know that's really annoying, but I'm
having this like allergic reaction, Like I would put it
in that framework rather than kind of suggest I wonder
if she's been too subtle about it.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Maybe you know how some people are allergic to artificial sense,
but they're not allergic to natural sense. What if you
found out a scent that you're not allergic to, and
you bought your mother in law a present of that
perfect with a gift receipt. Yep, yep, yeah, with a
gift receipt. And you are like, I think this would
be lovely for you and it won't give me a headache.
(26:17):
And then see what happens. Although perfume is a tricky
thing to buy something, I was also thinking that.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Or I say, let's go a bit rogue and every
time your mother in law, especially at work, walks past
you or going into a meeting room that you're in,
just go, oh oh, no, does anyone have a spray
something just came in and I don't know what that is?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
What is that smell with deathol? And like just spray
itel like she smells bad? Yeah, yeah, that'll word evil Genie.
I think that it really works.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Out loud is what would you do next? Share your
thoughts in the mummir out loud Facebook group. Also, if
you have a dilemma, send it to us at out
loud at momamea dot com, dot a you We would
love to help. Apparently there are only three different types
of decisions and working out what kind of decision you're
facing can be life changing me. It's sent through this
(27:09):
substack note this week that quotes James Clear And if
anyone is looking for a book in January that promises
to change your life, Atomic habits, audiobook, hard copy, whatever
it is, you know what great gift.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
If you know the persuct hasn't read.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
It, that book spikes every jam.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Every January that book goes off. I have read it.
I bloody love it.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
But this actually isn't from that book. He has a
newsletter which I would also recommend. But it's his theory,
and here's what he writes. Most decisions are like hats.
Try one, if you don't like it, put it back
and try another. The cost of a mistake is low,
so move quickly and try a bunch of hats. Some
decisions are like haircuts. You can fix a bad one,
(27:47):
but it won't be quick and you might feel foolish
for a while. That said, don't be scared of a
bad haircut. Trying something new is usually a risk worth taking.
If it doesn't work out, by this time next year,
you will have moved on, and so will everyone else.
A few decisions are like tattoos. Once you make them,
you have to live with them. Some mistakes the era
of maybe you'll move on for a moment, but then
(28:09):
your glance in the mirror and be reminded of that
choice all over again, even years later, the decision leaves
a mark. When you're dealing with an irreversible choice, move
slowly and think carefully.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Oh, I love this. My question is, do you.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Think it's that simple to always classify a decision like
I can definitely see hats, and I can see tattoos,
But there are some decisions even I feel like I'm
facing at the moment where I don't know how to
classify them. And in fact, maybe there's something between a
haircut and a tattoo that we need a name for.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 5 (28:44):
I also think with haircut, I feel like, because it's
the middle one, sometimes what might be a haircut in
the moment feels like a tattoo decision. Ye, or you
might mistake it for a hat decision and then you
just snowball. Because I have thought about this quite a bit,
and I think I treat a lot of my haircut
decisions as hat decisions. Really give me an example, like
(29:08):
actual haircut, Remember when I dyed my hair blue.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
But that's okay because that was a hat decision. The
blue goes away, but it was a haircut decision. I
had that for a year. Well, it was a literal
haircut decision.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I wonder if hair dye is the one between the
haircut and a tattoo, right, because a haircut's one thing. Yeah,
I've cut my hair too shot, I've gotten a full
fringe that hasn't suited me. There's some bad months. I've
also screwed up the dye, and there's some bad years.
There's some real damage.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It takes a lot to fix. And it's not as
simple as.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Just like, I'm still a haircut decision. Though, Let's give
some real life applications. Resigning from a job when you
don't have another job yet because it's making you miserable.
Is that a haircut or a hat or a tattoo?
A haircut? I think it's a haircut, right, Yeah, And
it might be really difficult because you might have a
(30:06):
period of time where you are skinned where you realize
you're going to have to either go back to that
job or get one just the same because your dream
job hasn't turned up yet. Whatever. It probably ticks the
box of in a year, will it have sorted itself
out in some way? And the haircut definition, right, we.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Go, what gift am I gonna buy? What am I
gonna have for lunch? Really simple ones that we make
every day, and we probably fret over some of those
things for longer than we should.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Yeah, because I feel like some people's hats are different
to other people's hats. Like I take my hat decisions
sometimes quite seriously.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, even like work decisions that I know are fairly
I have been known at work to treat a hat
like a tattoo and to go, no, if we make
this small change, then it's gonna be permanent, and it's
gonna be And it's like, nah, you've got to evolve
more quickly than that and kind of be impulsive.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Moved into a new place.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
That's the one I'm struggling with.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
That's a haircut decision too. No, it's not, I think
I think the tattoo, No, it's not, because you could
move back, you know what I mean. Like the haircut,
it's still a haircut. It's a drastic haircut. It's a
buzz cut, like it's not a trim, you know. So
maybe the haircut, like what you're looking for here is
also it's a buzz cut, not a trim, so the
growback will be bad, but if you really really want
(31:24):
to try it. Sometimes we talk ourselves out of things
because we're like, it's forever, but it's not forever. Okay,
you can come back. We all know people who've been
places and come back again.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yes, but a bad investment, a bad money decision, whether
that's marrying someone who spends all the money, whether that
is buying a place you shouldn't have, whatever, a bad
money decision can be attached to.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
That's so true. But the thing is is there are
or even within this framework, there are always going to
be things that are beyond your control. So like buying
a house in a place that then suddenly the price
is drop or whatever, like, that's not really something you
can control. So it might have started out as a
haircut decision, more often to a tattoo decision because you've
lost all your money. But there are some things you
(32:11):
can't control.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Okay. So one of the true tattooed choosing.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
To have kids children possibly the ultimate tattoo decision. Right
who you married. You could argue that's a buzz cut
decision as well.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
I don't think you should go into marriage thinking it's
a haircut.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I don't know tattoos they are a tattoo decision. Like
that's well, you can, It's true there are not that
many fol But I think one of the ways this
is really helpful is also to sometimes remind yourself of
what might be a hat for you could be a
haircut for someone else. So if you're a manager, for example,
at work, if you're making a decision that affects how
(32:51):
you work, it's a hat decision, right, like, because who
cares if it doesn't work out? Doesn't matter. If you're
making a decision that affects how everyone on the team
has to work, it's a haircut decision because that's going
to have more repercussions for everybody and it's going to
be harder to undo. So it's like this might be
a helpful framework to be able to think, well, it
doesn't matter to me, it's just a hat, but to
(33:12):
that person, it's a haircut.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I have a lot of trouble making all sorts of decisions,
and I get a bit of decision paralysis, and I
think it's because I look at almost all situations in
life and I feel as though there is a right decision,
or there is a perfect decision, and there is a
wrong decision. It's almost like it's a test, and I go,
if you stuff this up, there will be enormous grammifications
(33:36):
or whatever, which is perfectionism, and it's not true. It's
like an illusion. It's just you've got to take the
course or whatever. But in that way, I think you
can spend so much of your life focusing on the
small scale ones, whereas I was reading something that said
you should spend like ten percent of your day really
thinking about the tattooed decisions, because we actually don't spend
(33:59):
that much time. Some people always know they want kids,
some people don't. We talked about that recently. But the
tattooed decisions I think we put off, don't meaningfully engage with,
and we can get swept up in them and they go, oh,
I made this permanent decison, or I've been making a
decision for ten years and it landed me in a
place I don't want to be.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
But I don't believe there is such a thing as
a perfect decision ever. I think that every single big,
big choice you make will still have some things about
it that are a bit shit, you know what I mean.
I think that there are you know, we had that
whole conversation on out Loud last week about children and
whether or not it was okay to say sometimes like
I sometimes think about what would happen if I've made
a different choice, and we talked about whether that was okay,
(34:38):
and I think it is. It's not really true that
there is one perfect choice.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, but I hate the feeling like this is such
a low stakes one. But you're trying to plan a holiday.
Maybe you're looking at January and you're going, where am
I going to go?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's a hair cut, not a hat because it's expensive
and of involved usually if you're going away with other
people it involves them too.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
And you go and you think, even how I'm going
to spend the holidays, like am I going to go away?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Am I not? Who am I going to spend it with?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Whatever?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And you do something, You go made the wrong decision.
I've gone to the wrong place.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I've booked the wrong hotel or Airbnb, and I should
have done this instead, Like I hate sitting in that discount.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
And see that was me on the holiday, and it
was like a solo holiday by myself. I'm okay with
that decision if I had planned that for other people,
like my friends or family. I even get this when
I am planning, like taking my friends out to dinner
at a restaurant. If I'm choosing the restaurant, and like
they complain about like how their steak is cooked or
(35:36):
like the service was too slow.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
I think that's my fault.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
You take it on and I think that is the criticism.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, yeah, And then it.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Freaks me out because I'm like I always tell everyone.
I was like, I'm sheep. I need to follow.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
I don't want to lead, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I think there's another rule about these decisions, right, other
people's tattoo decisions. You have to just support the decision
they've made. I saw this poem on Instagram the other
day that I thought was very true, and it was like,
be kind about the names your friends give to their children,
praise their hair cuts, love their tattoos. It doesn't really
matter if that's what you would do, which is one
(36:11):
hundred percent true, right, because there's no more of a
dickhead test than you show them your tattoo your literal
tattoo and they go, oh, like what I have to
do or tell them you know, oh, we're calling her
ballerina and they're like, oh, it's like no, Like the
these are tattooed decisions, and if you like the person involved,
you have to say great choice.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
I noticed this about dating as well, like you can
tell when your friend is kind of not interested in
someone versus when they're obsessed with the person they're dating
by how other people react to when they show them photos.
Because like, if he's show a photo of like a
random guy, and you're like, I kind of like him,
it's a bit of a dick to me, then they're like, oh,
I don't like his hair, I don't like.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
This he's too short.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
But if it's like someone else, it could be the
exact same guy, and you're like, I love this man,
and everyone's so cute.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
He's so hot.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, he's amazing, he looks kind.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
So I always appreciating Like that, always so good feedback.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I also I read something called the regret test, which
I thought was really helpful, which was about there are
so many iterations of this, but imagine yourself in ten years,
which choice would minimize regret and which choice makes me proud?
And it was saying that this is so much better
than pros and cons, Like how when you look back
in ten years, what I regret.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Not making this decision?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Because sometimes the decision is not making one and that's
also one that you have to kind of live with.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Oprah says. We were talking about Oprah Wisdom on the
show this week, and she says, if you don't know
what to do, do nothing because like often, many things
in life will sort themselves out, not everything, quite a
few you will, whereas quick action can often be the mistake.
The truth of it is, though you know, even with
all this hat, haircut, tattoos, often it'll be the tiniest
(37:51):
decisions that you make that will change your life. Did
you get on the bus with that guy who turned
out to be the person of your dreams? Did you
pick up the phone when somebody called you about a
dream job? Did you you know?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (38:03):
It is like, sometimes it's just the decision. You don't
know a big you think the hats exactly, that's magical.
After the break. Recommendations for something to read, eat and
smell this weekend, including mine one, which is a piece
about the greatest generation ever.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
One unlimited out loud access.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively from Mum
and Maya. Subscribers follow the link in the show notes
to get us in your ears five days a week.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Out loud as it's Friday, and you know what happens
on Friday. We give you recommendations of things to watch, read, eat,
do whatever with, spray self with. I think perhaps Adam's
going to do I forgot my prop.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Oh no, we're on YouTube, You're on you and I
wanted to show everyone. Just pretend it's on my desk
so I might take a photo and post it in
the out Outers groupe. It is literally going to be
everyone's favorite summer cent. So it's the away hair and
body missed in the sense Saint Barts. I think they
only have one cent so far in Australia. It's from Sephora.
(39:26):
It's basically a body missed and it smells so good.
It smells like a summer holiday. It's like coconuty and
pineapplely and fresh and tropical. It is a little bit
pricier than a usual body miss. I have a small
one in my handbag. It's like fifty five dollars. A
bigger one is seventy dollars. But it's so like good
(39:47):
that it lasts a whole day. So I use it
as a perfume.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I was gonna say, what's different, what's the difference really
between a body? Miss? Okay, so perfume we go, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Because it's like so it smells really really good and
it's so strong, I only go hair, chest, crotch.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Something, not purposely doing it there.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
It's just like that's where like the rest of your
body is surely yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, got it? Like no, no, yeah, yeah, I'm sure
there's something about like clothes.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
On yeah yeah, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
It just smells so fresh and good. And I've been
getting a lot of compliments on it.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh I like that from so Fara.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Well, I have a recommendation that's a little bit city centric,
but I think there's an underlying principle which we can
all adopt this Christmas.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
I was speaking to a friend recently who's having a
tough time. This is not a period that she's particularly
looking forward to. They're having a Christmas but big emotional
mental load and they just went, we're outsourcing and she
found that Dinner Ladies does Christmas dishes and Dinner Ladies
is this great. It's a Australian lady startup started in
New South Wales. Really good for if you know anyone
(41:02):
who is unwell or postpartum or whatever, great thing to
send them a Dinner Ladies voucher. And it's like home cooked,
real ingredients, locally sauced good food. It's not it's really
really good food. And they cater for Christmas, which I
had no idea about. So you can get your ham
and your turkey and your side salads and your dessert.
(41:24):
I've got to bring an entree for something, and they've
got like g roast tomato tart. They've got duck sausage rolls,
that kind of stuff that you can buy and then
and it's kinder. It's kind of for me to bring
something from Dinner Ladies.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I think you mean that make it yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, that make it myself.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
It's not cheap, but that's because it's quality food. And
if everyone pitches in for the catering. That's a good idea,
which I know some families do a whip around. Yeah,
and you know what, do it in place of a gift,
just go you know what, we're not doing gifts. Everyone
put in forty five bucks for food, and we'll just
give each other the gift of not spending the day
in the kitchen, because we know it often comes down
(42:02):
to one or five sweaty ladies in the kitchen. And
if you don't feel like doing that this year, then
outsource that is. I love the gift that you should
give yourself. Holly, what have you got?
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I've got an essay that is going to be very
interesting to a certain portion of our audience, which.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Is in the New York Times.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
And it's like one of those you know, like those
interactive essays that have videos when you can scroll and
things pop out, and it's called is Gen X actually
the Greatest Generation?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I didn't click on that. I saw the headline. Now
I was like, this is not any of.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
My business, and it's all about Generation X. And it
has collected together a lot of the icons, American icons
obviously of Generation X for this very satisfying photo shoot
that has everyone from Claire Danes to like Christian Slater
and Amy Mann and Neve Campbell and Jennine Grufferlo and
all these like Generation X icons in these really big
(42:59):
photo shoots, which is great. But then the writer of
this piece is a really big, serious New York Times.
Piece is called Amanda fourteen. And it's the most satisfying
read because what I've decided, I think about generations. We
talk about generations all the time on this show, right,
because they're sort of arbitrary boundaries that are supposed to
say a lot about you, and I think we all
(43:19):
know that they don't really, but they also do. It's
like to misquote Julia Gillard, I think they don't say
everything about you, Yeah, but they definitely say.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Something about It's a cultural reference point by which it's
like a color palette by which you see the world.
And what's interesting is that we all have completely different ones.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, And because the technology that's available to you, the
big cultural touchstones, of course they influence you. Of course
it would be weird if they didn't. And gen X
were some of the things that she says in this
that there so good because it's basically about gen X
creativity because The people who are all interviewed in them
were some of the filmmakers and musicians, and it's about
the iconic gen X albums and gen X movies, all
(43:57):
of which are excellent. But also this what makes gen
X special, which is that they're the last generation who
were not online until they were adults. But they went
through that whole change, but they had childhoods that did
not have technology in them. They were latch key kids.
It was before helicopter parenting. So they're often discussed as
(44:17):
being this cohort of like lots of divorced parents too,
So this cohort of like unpatrolled, unsupervised teens roaming the world.
You know, like, this is what gen X was, like,
this is what the kids in Stranger Things are meant
to be and the kids in et are meant to be,
and you know all of those and how that fostered
a certain amount of tolerance for boredom and creativity and
(44:38):
all these things. And it's just such a beautiful and
interesting essay. So I'm recommending that, particularly to anyone who
is gen X. If you're wondering what gen X is,
there's a bit of argument whether it's you were born
between nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty or whether you're born
between nineteen sixty four and nineteen eighty four. Either way,
I'm pretty much slap bang in the middle of that.
(44:58):
And those either a boomer or gen X, Yeah, what happened,
And with some of the things in it that are
very true. They're talking about gen X heroes and how
we never expected our heroes to be perfect. We always
had our characters had the freedom to be flawed. And
I was reading that and being like, yes, that's what
I'm always arguing that there's no obligation to be exemplary.
We have a sensibility that's very much about rejecting norms.
(45:21):
Blah blah blah blah blah. There's probably never going to
be a gen X president. They were saying of the US,
we've probably missed that gap. Obama just would squeak in
if you took the sixty one and Real so full
of all these really interrithing things. I absolutely loved it.
And if it is your era, it's like classic gen
X movies Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, the Breakfast Club sixty Okay,
(45:43):
it's like a walk down memory Lane in nineteen ninety four,
definitely maybe came our ill communication pilafe. I'm probably talking
in a language you don't understand. Anyway, it's an epic essay,
but I'm throwing in one extra tiny little recommendation, which
is a very wholesome one. This is the most megan
thing I ever do in the year. And I think
I might have mentioned it before, but at the beginning
of December, me and Billy did this on the weekend
(46:04):
and it was so satisfying. We get a jar, an
empty jar, and we write down all the Christmas movies
that we love on pieces of paper and we put
them in the jar and we put the lid on it.
And then whenever it's movie night, which is like weekend
nights and stuff, you go in and you pull a
random one out and we watch a Christmas movie and
it's our little jar of Christmas movies. And if you've
got kids, it's the best thing ever. That's a cue.
(46:24):
Oh I like it. We watched Jingle all the Way
on the weekend with Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to find a toy.
It was not a particularly great movie, but it is
die Hard. There's fun. Oh Diehard's in there. Oh yeah,
Diehard's in there. All the classics are in there. So
I'll put a picture up of our little jar of
Christmas movies.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Thank you so much for joining us, and do not
forget that Saturdays are when Parenting out Loud drops That
has Monique Bowley, Amelia Lester, and Stacy Hicks. New episode
dropping tomorrow. Find it in its own feed by searching
Parenting out Loud and tap follow so you don't miss
an episode.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
A link, as always, will be in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
And before we go, big thank you to our team
group executive producer Ruth Devine, Executive producer Sashatanic.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Senior audio producer is Leah Porges, our video producer is
Josh Green, and our.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Junior content producer is Tessa Kodovic. Bye bye, Mamma. Mia
acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've
recorded this podcast.
You're listening to I'm MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Have you decided what you want for your birthday?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh? I've told Brent what I want and I hope
he was paying attention. Yeah, yeah, because I want my
little Bunning's glass greenhouse thing. Jesus crash this beautiful necklace.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Okay, Okay, god no, I think it's better to have
those lists because my mom.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I used to be like nearly my whole life until
the last few years. I'm like a surprise me person
because I love surprises, like I genuinely do. But it's
just twenty years of missus twenty years.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Yeah, it's just like it's time to just ask.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
It's time exactly. He's a lovely man that this is
not his strength. Yes, yeah, time to be specific, you know,
save us all a little bit of aggs, send some cash. Hello,
and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women
are actually talking about on Friday, the twelfth of December.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm Wayne right, I'm m vern Em and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
And here's what made our agenda for today. It's been
a dilemma for the ages. Is a straight man cheating
if he likes other women's posts on Instagram. Yes, Thankfully,
for those of us who are a little bit more
conflicted than them, a court has cleared this up.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
It is also social season, and we are well overdue
for an Ediica guide where we tell you exactly how
to behave because we're well equipped.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
And if you're struggling to make a decision at the moment,
ask yourself, is it a hat, a haircut, or a tattoo.
We stumbled across a decision framework that promises to change
your life.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
But first, as I mentioned, there has often been debate
about whether or not it's okay to like other people's
posts on social media. So if you're a straight man
in a relationship with a woman, is it okay for
you to like other women's posts? Now? I have always
said yes, I don't own your life likes, but you
m say absolutely not. Give me some context here about it.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Firstly, if it's going to be a like that's going
to embarrass me as your girlfriend, you can't be liking
that photo.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
What kind of light would embarrass you?
Speaker 5 (02:21):
A photo of a model who doesn't even know you exist,
and you're constantly liking every single photo she posts, She's
going to see.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It so like Siddy Sweeney, let's say official account. Presumably
she posts something she gets a million likes when she posts.
If your significant other is one of the people who
likes that, you don't like that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I think that's a bit embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
It's embarrassing.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
I actually have a story here, and I can't believe
I witnessed this firsthand. I was dating a guy and
he was looking at a photo from Selena Gomez and
it was a carousel, and it was like, the first
one was like her looking really really sexy, and he
liked it, and the second one was her with Benny Blanco,
and then he like.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
A witness that I was dating here. I think this
lovely deluded gentleman thought that Selena might be like, I'm
looking through the lists of all the names. She's the
most followed person. I'm looking through the lists of all
the names to decide who I might go on a
random date with.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
You, and like, she doesn't need your like, whereas if
your partner is liking a photo of Dame Judy dench
yeplay on.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Okay, this is confusing. So it's lucky that some courts
around the world have ruled on this. You might have
seen some headlines around the place that in the country Turkia,
which is in like southeast Europe, a divorce court has
just ruled that a husband's interacting with other women on
social media platforms did constitute cheating, and it's being reported
(03:53):
around the world this particular case as a kind of
world first proof that Instagram liking is cheating. Now, obviously
there's a lot more going on here, there's a lot
more going on in this relationship. There's a lot more
going on in this this particular divorce case, but it
is the first time that the court held up an
action that said social media, including likes on photos of
(04:15):
the opposite sex, can be interpreted as conduct undermining trust
and dignity in a marriage. Such online behavior, the court said,
may justify divorce when it causes emotional harm and erodes
the foundation of the relationship. And in that particular case,
when the woman was saying, part of why I'm divorcing
(04:36):
this dude, is he continually doing that liking connecting with
women on Instagram. I don't like it was one of
the reasons why the court ruled in her favor. So
people are seeing this. It's not exactly as simplistic as this,
of course, but they're saying this is the first time
that liking an Instagram post has contributed to a cheating
(04:58):
not prosecution. What's the word well inclaim.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
In Australia we have no fault divorce. Yeah, so if
you and your partner get divorced, no one needs to
prove that it was someone else is fault, right, whereas
in other places in the world you do prove fault.
And this is a way of going he was at
fault because he was liking.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And that thought you might be getting better, more favorable
divorce settlement exactly.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
And what I want in court is I need that
picture displayed.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I need it displayed.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
I need us to prosecute the nuance of that photo.
Is it a graduation photo of an ex where we're
just encouraging her future endeavors clap clap, look at you go?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Or is that allowed by the way I think we're
allowed to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Whereas if it is a your ex is taken up
bikini modeling and there's eleven photos in a carousel and
he's like con zooming and he's going on the Instagram
stories fire emojing exactly, and maybe a DM going it
looks like you're well, that crossing a line and I
need a judge to say that, like I need a
(06:05):
judge to say it, and then a ward.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
And I think it's also the where in the claim
it says that he was constantly doing that, so I
can imagine there would have been a conversation of her going,
I don't like when you do this, and he does it,
And you can tell exactly how much they do it
by their Instagram explore page. If you go onto someone's
Instagram explore page, and I assume with this person here,
(06:28):
his Instagram explore page is just all these.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Women in bikinis. They are like, you have a tendency.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
To like a lot, whereas mine is all left one drivers,
which is me in my personal business.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But this is why this is murky, right Jesse, Like
this particular divorce, ACiE, we don't know the particulars here,
but like, in general, is it illegal for your partner
to like looking at pictures of women and bikinis on Instagram?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You heard the court It is a little bit legal.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
It is, And in fact, I would like I would
like to have their eyes to add in another piece
of legislation that I think is missing, okay, which is
my mum in law does still like and I've spoken
about this before, photos of Luca's X and I just
it's time.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
To stop it.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
She's trolling you, She's trolling me, And it's like.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Is Luca allowed to like those photos? Look?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
When I brought it up on this podcast a year ago,
it does appear he has stopped. Mother in law was
a different level though, because I feel as though she's
too encouraging.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Do you think she's also in the DMS going how
are you doing?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We miss you? We miss you in this family?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
And I think that when there's a court, when Luca
and I go to court over something, I'm going to
be bringing that up. This lady has been too encouraging
to the exes, and I don't appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It feels pointed.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
So social season is amongst us, which means that it's
time where people on the internet tell other people on
the internet how to behave Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Us included Yes.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
A subject writer named Hannah Park published a piece titled
modern day social Etiquette you should live.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And die by.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Now.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
This is not like a fancy, fancy etiquette guide where
you're making like a five course meal. This is for
people who just happen to attend things during the social season.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And get easily confused.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
And we've done a few of these for our subscriber
out Louders.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
In fact, we have one subscriber episode coming up specifically
about Christmas, New Year and the holiday season. But then
this one I just found during like a very busy
social period. I just need some guidance. And there are
a few things on there that I'm doing that I
didn't realize.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
We're rude, Okay, can I read out some Yes, always
pour someone else's water or wine before your own.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
This is a lesson that Jesse has learned.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, I'd be explicitly told by someone I used to
work with, and I think of her every time I
do it.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Now. I didn't know we had to do that. Of
course you have to do that, oh my god, because
sometime sometimes.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
They're quite heavy, so you know when you pick it up,
and I can't be doing this.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Before God, or at least you offer.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You have to offer an intolerance to water, and you
don't want.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
To, you don't want to present them. It tastes like spin.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
No, that's why you should always just give you.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So if you go like this and they go you up,
that's fine. Don't lick your fingers. Oh, I always like
tricky because the thing like finger food is tricky. You know,
like if you're at a fancy event and somebody is
bringing around finger food, you know how they always offer
(09:37):
you a CANape and a napkin.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Do you call it a CANape?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I call it a cap It's called a can I
think I'm just being stupid.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Cannot pey and a napkin.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But you've got a glass in hand, so you never
take the napkin because then you're in a pickle, a pickle.
Then you don't know what what to do, so you eat,
and then you've got to lick your fingers or wipe
a mod dress?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You do you got a fancy dress.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
You don't want to do that. Some people who lick
their fingers make it quite audible.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I know what you may.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I also think over the way kend I was indulging
in a cheesel, which I hadn't had. No, while you
can't eat a cheesel without looking, licking.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Fingers is the best bit.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
It's the best bit because you've got the salt on it. Like,
what am I meant to do with my cheesel?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You know what you do? You roll it between.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
And I like, sprinkle it into your mouth.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I'm really glad that.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We've nailed the cheesel etiquette in this holiday guide. Early on.
That is the weirdest shit I've ever heard. It's so good.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
It's extra flavor. It's like an extra back.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
Okay, if you know the name of a bird or
plant while walking outside with friend, share it with the group.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Such nonsense.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I just disagree, like, I rather not. I rather walk
to silence.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know that. I will totally do that, Yeah, because
you know how I am with my nature and even
I know that's annoying when people come to stay with
us where we live down the coast and walk around,
I go, look at that, that's a great heron.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Look at that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That's a plover. Look at that it's a Pelican. Nobody
wants They all look like the same bird. Nobody wants that.
So I just have to say it inside my head, like, yes, Holly,
you do know things, Okay.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
When someone tells a story, ask a follow up question
before telling your own.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I loved this.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
I think it's a really simple way to make sure
that you don't get into that dynamic of both of
you just monologuing or whatever. And sometimes I go, you know,
you'll find yourself midway through a conversation and go I've
been talking too much, and you try and diffuse it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I like that as just like, yeah, always ask something
else or I just wait for your.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
T If you're telling a story and you can tell
they just want to say something, yeah what they think
is better.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is very nice, polite.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Light.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
If you're telling a story and then someone else starts
telling their story, don't look at your phone.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Well, if you're one up in my story, I'm looking
at my phone.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Who I see this all the time. I see this
all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
In a group setting, someone will speak and then when
they're done speaking and someone else starts speaking.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
And often it'll be one person.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It could be the quieter person at the table, could
be someone who said less, I see someone touch the
and I think that is the root of single pin.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Okay, where should the phone be?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Never within eyesight, not on the table or anything, unless
you are my obstecution.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Or maybe a parent with the baby at home with
a babysitter. Yeah, but then these days we've often got watches.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Vibrate for that, aren't we Aren't we paying the babysitter
to sort it.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I just feel like that's none of your business.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Or maybe a single girl, if you have a better lineup, yeah, true, true, yeah,
but if you can check that.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's why phone belongs in pocket. When you go do
a way, check your phone. But I don't think we
are doing it within because when one person pulls their
phone out, everything's ruined. Everyone's checking their phone and we've
just broken the like social.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Code its bond offer to help old people walk up
the stairs or across the streets.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, of course, duh. But just be careful what your
boundary of old people.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Is, because Holly hates it when I offer. When I
say to her, do you need help in the lift?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You can really poised at the social event if you
get that wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Okay, I understand the difference between nice questions versus nosy questions.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
This is very tricky. I don't think I know what
this is.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So apparently it's nosy and rude to ask what someone
does for living, or like how's work going?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Or something to do?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
With work.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
The general consensus, and what this article said was that
that's a rude question and you have to get more creative.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That's that's the first thing I asked me too. So
this is interesting because I'm finding that I've got less
and less tolerance for small talk as I get older.
I don't know if it's the hormones. I don't know if
it's the age or what it is. But I used
to be quite a fan of small talk. I remember
years ago coaching you Jesse on office small talk, because
I was like, it's important, it's the social code. You
just how is your weekend fine? How was your weekend fine?
(14:01):
But my tolerance for it is dropping. And do you
remember there was an article in The Guardian a while
ago from a woman who even up small talk. Yes,
And this was interesting because she had some suggestions, because
often the suggestions for this are too intense, things like
what's bringing you joy today? Like I don't want a
stranger to ask me that, But she said that was.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Exactly I find that question.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
This article was written by Claire Easton, was in the Guardian.
She's a writer and she had to go to like
a sort of event where she didn't know very many
people that normally would be small talk, but she'd sworn
off it. The first person I spoke to at the
show as a freelance photographer, what's your star side? I asked, Oh,
I feel like I have to know about star signs
I believe, looked pleasantly surprised, and then answered Aquarius and
(14:46):
we spoke comfortably for ten minutes. The next person I encountered,
I asked, what was your art teacher at school? Like?
By the end of the evening I had several fun
and enjoyable conversations. My rules were simple without being rude.
I would quickly deflect all questions about well being, where
they're transport, or children's academic achievements, and offer instead something
I found genuinely interesting. When Barista asks, how are you
(15:08):
enjoying the sun? I pivoted to I like spring, but
autumn is my favorite season. What's yours? What do we
think about this? What do we think about more interesting questions?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
I agree that we can get to more interesting places.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I think you can sound like you're forcing it a bit.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You can't row a dog in an interesting question.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
The one that I like is because I will see
a lot of people over this period where, to be
completely honest, I've forgotten what they do for work. I'm
not sure if they're working at the moment. Yep, I
don't know if they're retired. I don't like I just
haven't been keeping up. And so what you're meant to
say is what's been keeping you busy?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And I quite like.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
That, Hey, uncle, blah, what's been keeping you busy? And
then at least it's open, and then you can kind
of follow them there rather than making any assumptions about
what their life looks like at the moment.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Yeah, I actually like that. I have one uncle who
known since I was born. Every single year at Christmas,
he always asks me where do I work?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And I've only worked at one place.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, every single year.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I was thirty before one uncle stopped saying how's boost juice?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
But I still enjoy This is the problem with small talk, right,
is that no one's really listening, no one really cares,
no one's going to remember. Obviously, I find it awkward
to jump into something deep with people you don't know
very well. I don't think you should necessarily do that.
But something about the world, something about the day that's
not you know, just how are you busy? How are
(16:34):
you busy? Or you know, like, I don't know. I
just think we've got to be better than that. And
I haven't quite cracked it.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
But I think sometimes it's stepping stones, right, And then
you come across something really interesting, but you can't force it,
and you also don't want to sound like you're prying,
which I guess is the point about being nosy. There
are some people who are going into this season with
things they really don't want to talk about, well with bruises,
they don't want pressed.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
If you're emotionally intelligent, you can tell that. So if
I say to you, how are you and your eyes
filled with I'm going to change your subject ye pretty fast.
I like saying, what have you been watching lately?
Speaker 6 (17:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
No, no, I do. I do like that. I do
like everyone reads yeah, but everyone watches something.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It's very true.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
We want to jump into though, Hi, uncle Bob, what
have you been watching lately? That over watch your.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Start signed Bob, And then like Aquarius, I'm like, I
don't know anything.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Anything about that, and now we're stuck.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And now it was stuck.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
There was one that I realized I've been doing that
I didn't know was rude. But I will stop, which
is apparently you've got to stop walking into places, whether
that is a restaurant, a venue, a home and ask
for a phone charge.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
That apparently is very rude, rude. I've done it at
the gym.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
I've done it at like I am constantly asking strangers
to charge my phone and it's like, I need to
sort out the battery life on my phone.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's what I need.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, but then you have to remember to charge the portable.
I never do. People bought me those before, and I'm like,
you are assuming that I have ever gott to charge
this if I can't charge my phone, But it's correct.
I do like that one in here where the etiquette
is like don't leave the house with uncharged devices. Brent
never has this device charged. He's always like, I'm nearly
out of juice.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
He says, day, can't charge your phone, Come on now.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I also liked if you find yourself in an interaction
where someone is cleaning, join them in cleaning. I went
through all the comments on this and there were just
really good basic ones. And you often do see You'll
be in a situation where a woman is in the
kitchen cleaning dishes, and someone will talk at her.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
It might be me and holding a glass of wine
trying to scrub around the elbow.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, mum, do you know where the rest of the
wine is? And Mum's just like sweating and stuff, and
it's like you, no, you should probably pick up a teacher.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I wonder if there's a line in that, out louders,
We'll have to tell us, because very good rule of thumb.
If you're at someone's house and they're hosting you and
there cleaning, always jumping off for help, some people do
not like you're doing that. Some people are get upset
about and then because also you're going to have come
with a lot of questions to that situation. Where does
this go? Where does that go?
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Cloth?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Where's your glasses? Where's your both? Some people don't like that.
I like that. I'm like, go for your life, clean
as much as you like. I'm going to go sit
down with my wine and you're going to clean up
the kitchen. But I'd love to know what out loud,
I think the line is about that one.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, yeah, true, true.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
I think it's like even get everything away, like collecting
things and putting them in the sink at least, is
like you've done some of the job.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Look like you're doing something.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Just fiddle, yeah, wipe a table, yeah, fiddle and even
put ttawel in left hand, right hand, left hand, right hand,
but just appear to be helping.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
That's absolutely moving around.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I liked as well. Understand the purpose of a group chat.
It is not for logistics, it's not for disagreements. Those
should happen one on one.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
This is genius. As we've talked about a few times,
I'm not as into group chats as everybody else because
I just find it overwhelming. And this is particularly what
I hate about them is where people are fighting about
things or where people are just saidlessly going is it
two or is it three?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, this isn't the place.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Okay, But how about we were speaking recently about what
dish you bring, and I have group chats that are
just like I'm bringing the salad, I'm bringing the rolls,
I'm bringing the bla. I prefer to be told what
to bring. Is that just a passive thing. I'll just
wait till the end, give me the shit thing. But like,
I'm not going to jump in when the group chat's
going off with everyone with their special things, because you
(20:41):
get fifty four messages and then you go, I don't know,
I don't know what's left?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Is someone writing this?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (20:47):
I think there needs to be an organizer. So yeah,
no what everyone's bringing, because one time I did go
to a Christmas thing and there were five salads, yeah,
and like three prawns.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah, that was it.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Exactly allocate, allocate people's strengths.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I have one last etiquete question.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I wanted to ask, Oh, yes, because I saw this
in the comments and oh I didn't know this.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
When you give someone.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
A gift, you should always give them the gift receipt.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Do you do this no, so they can exchange it?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Do you think there's a price, because I decided that
if it's less than thirty bucks, I'm not giving them
the gift receipt, and if it's a child, I'm probably
not giving them the gift receipt. Right, But if I've
spent a decent amount of money on a family member
and there's a chance I need to exchange or it's
not quite right, what do we think?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
That's really interesting? Because I think it's rude to give
the gift receipt really but maybe that's an individual thing.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Because a gift re seat doesn't say how much it was,
but it entitles you to go on.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, maybe it depends, like if it's an item of clothing, yes, yeah,
because sizing is an issue. Okay, But otherwise I think
it's a bit rude because it kind of says, I
bought you this thing, but you might hate it. I
think we should be assuming that you're gonna like it.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
I have been occasions where I've given a gift receipt
because I want them to enjoy the gift I'm giving,
but I don't give it to them.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Straight like that. I just say I have the receipt.
If you do want something else, offer from this website.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I remember getting a few books for Christmas and there
was a gift recept accompanied, and I thought that was
a good case.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Because you might have had some of those.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I might have had them, I might have read them,
I might have whatever, And that's a really easy thing
to go and exchange or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I think it's really funny. I always think that's about
gifts when it's Christmas, is that part of giving a
gift is that it's supposed to be somebody else's vision
of you, right, Like, it's not just about the thing itself.
Otherwise we just all give each other money. And obviously
you do give people money, like teenagers just want money
or things. But if you've gone to the trouble of
(22:56):
choosing a thing for a person, I think it's a
bit transactional to always just be like, oh, you could
just have the one hundred dollars, you know what I mean? Yeah,
I know, because an ideal world you've chosen and that
person should at least pretend that they like it, Like
if it doesn't fit or if you've already got it
or anything like that, then sure.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
But like, but something very personal like jewelry given books,
like I would find that's like such a personal gift.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
But if I brought you a necklace, right and you
hated it and so you just went and swapped it
for a hat.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Yeah, it sounds likely.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Just wasteful, a bit like, well I didn't buy you
that at all, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
But it's more about you.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Than then you'd be like, where's that necklace and be
like a home, would.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You like my new hat?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I'm going to put a pole in the out Louders
Facebook group about whether we think it is polite etiquette
to include a gift receipt, because that is.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Something I cannot quite decide.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Out louders in a moment, is the decision you're currently
facing a hat, a haircut, or a tattoo we discuss.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Out louders.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
We've got a listener dilemma, and we need your collective
wisdom to help us and our partners UI solve it.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Please.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Here is the problem. From an out louder. I have
a work and family dilemma. I work with my mother
in law and we get along fine, except her perfume.
It gives me a headache on the good days and
a full migraine on the worst days. I've asked her
repeatedly not to wear perfume to work, and have told
her when I've had to go home with centrigered migraines,
but she still wears it every day and it causes
(24:43):
me pain. Please help me find a way to get.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Her to stop once and for all. The question is
what do you do next?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You can tell I could barely wait to jump in
on this because this is a meedy one. Yeah, Because
the thing is, is this a passag maneuver? Because if
she knows it's giving her daughter and Laura, ifn you're
an expert in this particular Jesse, she knows it's giving
her order Laura headache. Or do you think that maybe
she doesn't believe it? You know how, there's a sort
of sometimes that oh, such a snowflake with your eye
(25:17):
roll migrains, like you know what I mean? That kind
of vibe perfume can be.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
It's a very personal firing.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Some people feel undressed without it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yes, yes, and you can wear it for years and years.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Like it's a big thing to ask someone with someone
not to wear it, Like I understand that, and it's
an awkward thing to broach. I would say something along
the lines of.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think I might be allergic to your perfume. How
annoying is that?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And I would just kind of put it on me
and go like, I know that's really annoying, but I'm
having this like allergic reaction, Like I would put it
in that framework rather than kind of suggest I wonder
if she's been too subtle about it.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Maybe you know how some people are allergic to artificial sense,
but they're not allergic to natural sense. What if you
found out a scent that you're not allergic to, and
you bought your mother in law a present of that
perfect with a gift receipt. Yep, yep, yeah, with a
gift receipt. And you are like, I think this would
be lovely for you and it won't give me a headache.
(26:17):
And then see what happens. Although perfume is a tricky
thing to buy something, I was also thinking that.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Or I say, let's go a bit rogue and every
time your mother in law, especially at work, walks past
you or going into a meeting room that you're in,
just go, oh oh, no, does anyone have a spray
something just came in and I don't know what that is?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
What is that smell with deathol? And like just spray
itel like she smells bad? Yeah, yeah, that'll word evil Genie.
I think that it really works.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Out loud is what would you do next? Share your
thoughts in the mummir out loud Facebook group. Also, if
you have a dilemma, send it to us at out
loud at momamea dot com, dot a you We would
love to help. Apparently there are only three different types
of decisions and working out what kind of decision you're
facing can be life changing me. It's sent through this
(27:09):
substack note this week that quotes James Clear And if
anyone is looking for a book in January that promises
to change your life, Atomic habits, audiobook, hard copy, whatever
it is, you know what great gift.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
If you know the persuct hasn't read.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
It, that book spikes every jam.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Every January that book goes off. I have read it.
I bloody love it.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
But this actually isn't from that book. He has a
newsletter which I would also recommend. But it's his theory,
and here's what he writes. Most decisions are like hats.
Try one, if you don't like it, put it back
and try another. The cost of a mistake is low,
so move quickly and try a bunch of hats. Some
decisions are like haircuts. You can fix a bad one,
(27:47):
but it won't be quick and you might feel foolish
for a while. That said, don't be scared of a
bad haircut. Trying something new is usually a risk worth taking.
If it doesn't work out, by this time next year,
you will have moved on, and so will everyone else.
A few decisions are like tattoos. Once you make them,
you have to live with them. Some mistakes the era
of maybe you'll move on for a moment, but then
(28:09):
your glance in the mirror and be reminded of that
choice all over again, even years later, the decision leaves
a mark. When you're dealing with an irreversible choice, move
slowly and think carefully.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Oh, I love this. My question is, do you.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Think it's that simple to always classify a decision like
I can definitely see hats, and I can see tattoos,
But there are some decisions even I feel like I'm
facing at the moment where I don't know how to
classify them. And in fact, maybe there's something between a
haircut and a tattoo that we need a name for.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 5 (28:44):
I also think with haircut, I feel like, because it's
the middle one, sometimes what might be a haircut in
the moment feels like a tattoo decision. Ye, or you
might mistake it for a hat decision and then you
just snowball. Because I have thought about this quite a bit,
and I think I treat a lot of my haircut
decisions as hat decisions. Really give me an example, like
(29:08):
actual haircut, Remember when I dyed my hair blue.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
But that's okay because that was a hat decision. The
blue goes away, but it was a haircut decision. I
had that for a year. Well, it was a literal
haircut decision.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I wonder if hair dye is the one between the
haircut and a tattoo, right, because a haircut's one thing. Yeah,
I've cut my hair too shot, I've gotten a full
fringe that hasn't suited me. There's some bad months. I've
also screwed up the dye, and there's some bad years.
There's some real damage.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It takes a lot to fix. And it's not as
simple as.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Just like, I'm still a haircut decision. Though, Let's give
some real life applications. Resigning from a job when you
don't have another job yet because it's making you miserable.
Is that a haircut or a hat or a tattoo?
A haircut? I think it's a haircut, right, Yeah, And
it might be really difficult because you might have a
(30:06):
period of time where you are skinned where you realize
you're going to have to either go back to that
job or get one just the same because your dream
job hasn't turned up yet. Whatever. It probably ticks the
box of in a year, will it have sorted itself
out in some way? And the haircut definition, right, we.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Go, what gift am I gonna buy? What am I
gonna have for lunch? Really simple ones that we make
every day, and we probably fret over some of those
things for longer than we should.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Yeah, because I feel like some people's hats are different
to other people's hats. Like I take my hat decisions
sometimes quite seriously.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, even like work decisions that I know are fairly
I have been known at work to treat a hat
like a tattoo and to go, no, if we make
this small change, then it's gonna be permanent, and it's
gonna be And it's like, nah, you've got to evolve
more quickly than that and kind of be impulsive.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Moved into a new place.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
That's the one I'm struggling with.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
That's a haircut decision too. No, it's not, I think
I think the tattoo, No, it's not, because you could
move back, you know what I mean. Like the haircut,
it's still a haircut. It's a drastic haircut. It's a
buzz cut, like it's not a trim, you know. So
maybe the haircut, like what you're looking for here is
also it's a buzz cut, not a trim, so the
growback will be bad, but if you really really want
(31:24):
to try it. Sometimes we talk ourselves out of things
because we're like, it's forever, but it's not forever. Okay,
you can come back. We all know people who've been
places and come back again.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yes, but a bad investment, a bad money decision, whether
that's marrying someone who spends all the money, whether that
is buying a place you shouldn't have, whatever, a bad
money decision can be attached to.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
That's so true. But the thing is is there are
or even within this framework, there are always going to
be things that are beyond your control. So like buying
a house in a place that then suddenly the price
is drop or whatever, like, that's not really something you
can control. So it might have started out as a
haircut decision, more often to a tattoo decision because you've
lost all your money. But there are some things you
(32:11):
can't control.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Okay. So one of the true tattooed choosing.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
To have kids children possibly the ultimate tattoo decision. Right
who you married. You could argue that's a buzz cut
decision as well.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
I don't think you should go into marriage thinking it's
a haircut.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I don't know tattoos they are a tattoo decision. Like
that's well, you can, It's true there are not that
many fol But I think one of the ways this
is really helpful is also to sometimes remind yourself of
what might be a hat for you could be a
haircut for someone else. So if you're a manager, for example,
at work, if you're making a decision that affects how
(32:51):
you work, it's a hat decision, right, like, because who
cares if it doesn't work out? Doesn't matter. If you're
making a decision that affects how everyone on the team
has to work, it's a haircut decision because that's going
to have more repercussions for everybody and it's going to
be harder to undo. So it's like this might be
a helpful framework to be able to think, well, it
doesn't matter to me, it's just a hat, but to
(33:12):
that person, it's a haircut.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I have a lot of trouble making all sorts of decisions,
and I get a bit of decision paralysis, and I
think it's because I look at almost all situations in
life and I feel as though there is a right decision,
or there is a perfect decision, and there is a
wrong decision. It's almost like it's a test, and I go,
if you stuff this up, there will be enormous grammifications
(33:36):
or whatever, which is perfectionism, and it's not true. It's
like an illusion. It's just you've got to take the
course or whatever. But in that way, I think you
can spend so much of your life focusing on the
small scale ones, whereas I was reading something that said
you should spend like ten percent of your day really
thinking about the tattooed decisions, because we actually don't spend
(33:59):
that much time. Some people always know they want kids,
some people don't. We talked about that recently. But the
tattooed decisions I think we put off, don't meaningfully engage with,
and we can get swept up in them and they go, oh,
I made this permanent decison, or I've been making a
decision for ten years and it landed me in a
place I don't want to be.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
But I don't believe there is such a thing as
a perfect decision ever. I think that every single big,
big choice you make will still have some things about
it that are a bit shit, you know what I mean.
I think that there are you know, we had that
whole conversation on out Loud last week about children and
whether or not it was okay to say sometimes like
I sometimes think about what would happen if I've made
a different choice, and we talked about whether that was okay,
(34:38):
and I think it is. It's not really true that
there is one perfect choice.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, but I hate the feeling like this is such
a low stakes one. But you're trying to plan a holiday.
Maybe you're looking at January and you're going, where am
I going to go?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's a hair cut, not a hat because it's expensive
and of involved usually if you're going away with other
people it involves them too.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
And you go and you think, even how I'm going
to spend the holidays, like am I going to go away?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Am I not? Who am I going to spend it with?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Whatever?
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And you do something, You go made the wrong decision.
I've gone to the wrong place.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I've booked the wrong hotel or Airbnb, and I should
have done this instead, Like I hate sitting in that discount.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
And see that was me on the holiday, and it
was like a solo holiday by myself. I'm okay with
that decision if I had planned that for other people,
like my friends or family. I even get this when
I am planning, like taking my friends out to dinner
at a restaurant. If I'm choosing the restaurant, and like
they complain about like how their steak is cooked or
(35:36):
like the service was too slow.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
I think that's my fault.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
You take it on and I think that is the criticism.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, yeah, And then it.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Freaks me out because I'm like I always tell everyone.
I was like, I'm sheep. I need to follow.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
I don't want to lead, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I think there's another rule about these decisions, right, other
people's tattoo decisions. You have to just support the decision
they've made. I saw this poem on Instagram the other
day that I thought was very true, and it was like,
be kind about the names your friends give to their children,
praise their hair cuts, love their tattoos. It doesn't really
matter if that's what you would do, which is one
(36:11):
hundred percent true, right, because there's no more of a
dickhead test than you show them your tattoo your literal
tattoo and they go, oh, like what I have to
do or tell them you know, oh, we're calling her
ballerina and they're like, oh, it's like no, Like the
these are tattooed decisions, and if you like the person involved,
you have to say great choice.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
I noticed this about dating as well, like you can
tell when your friend is kind of not interested in
someone versus when they're obsessed with the person they're dating
by how other people react to when they show them photos.
Because like, if he's show a photo of like a
random guy, and you're like, I kind of like him,
it's a bit of a dick to me, then they're like, oh,
I don't like his hair, I don't like.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
This he's too short.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
But if it's like someone else, it could be the
exact same guy, and you're like, I love this man,
and everyone's so cute.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
He's so hot.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, he's amazing, he looks kind.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
So I always appreciating Like that, always so good feedback.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I also I read something called the regret test, which
I thought was really helpful, which was about there are
so many iterations of this, but imagine yourself in ten years,
which choice would minimize regret and which choice makes me proud?
And it was saying that this is so much better
than pros and cons, Like how when you look back
in ten years, what I regret.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Not making this decision?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Because sometimes the decision is not making one and that's
also one that you have to kind of live with.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Oprah says. We were talking about Oprah Wisdom on the
show this week, and she says, if you don't know
what to do, do nothing because like often, many things
in life will sort themselves out, not everything, quite a
few you will, whereas quick action can often be the mistake.
The truth of it is, though you know, even with
all this hat, haircut, tattoos, often it'll be the tiniest
(37:51):
decisions that you make that will change your life. Did
you get on the bus with that guy who turned
out to be the person of your dreams? Did you
pick up the phone when somebody called you about a
dream job? Did you you know?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Whatever?
Speaker 1 (38:03):
It is like, sometimes it's just the decision. You don't
know a big you think the hats exactly, that's magical.
After the break. Recommendations for something to read, eat and
smell this weekend, including mine one, which is a piece
about the greatest generation ever.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
One unlimited out loud access.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively from Mum
and Maya. Subscribers follow the link in the show notes
to get us in your ears five days a week.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Out loud as it's Friday, and you know what happens
on Friday. We give you recommendations of things to watch, read, eat,
do whatever with, spray self with. I think perhaps Adam's
going to do I forgot my prop.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Oh no, we're on YouTube, You're on you and I
wanted to show everyone. Just pretend it's on my desk
so I might take a photo and post it in
the out Outers groupe. It is literally going to be
everyone's favorite summer cent. So it's the away hair and
body missed in the sense Saint Barts. I think they
only have one cent so far in Australia. It's from Sephora.
(39:26):
It's basically a body missed and it smells so good.
It smells like a summer holiday. It's like coconuty and
pineapplely and fresh and tropical. It is a little bit
pricier than a usual body miss. I have a small
one in my handbag. It's like fifty five dollars. A
bigger one is seventy dollars. But it's so like good
(39:47):
that it lasts a whole day. So I use it
as a perfume.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I was gonna say, what's different, what's the difference really
between a body? Miss? Okay, so perfume we go, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Because it's like so it smells really really good and
it's so strong, I only go hair, chest, crotch.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Something, not purposely doing it there.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
It's just like that's where like the rest of your
body is surely yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, got it? Like no, no, yeah, yeah, I'm sure
there's something about like clothes.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
On yeah yeah, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
It just smells so fresh and good. And I've been
getting a lot of compliments on it.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh I like that from so Fara.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Well, I have a recommendation that's a little bit city centric,
but I think there's an underlying principle which we can
all adopt this Christmas.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
I was speaking to a friend recently who's having a
tough time. This is not a period that she's particularly
looking forward to. They're having a Christmas but big emotional
mental load and they just went, we're outsourcing and she
found that Dinner Ladies does Christmas dishes and Dinner Ladies
is this great. It's a Australian lady startup started in
New South Wales. Really good for if you know anyone
(41:02):
who is unwell or postpartum or whatever, great thing to
send them a Dinner Ladies voucher. And it's like home cooked,
real ingredients, locally sauced good food. It's not it's really
really good food. And they cater for Christmas, which I
had no idea about. So you can get your ham
and your turkey and your side salads and your dessert.
(41:24):
I've got to bring an entree for something, and they've
got like g roast tomato tart. They've got duck sausage rolls,
that kind of stuff that you can buy and then
and it's kinder. It's kind of for me to bring
something from Dinner Ladies.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I think you mean that make it yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, that make it myself.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
It's not cheap, but that's because it's quality food. And
if everyone pitches in for the catering. That's a good idea,
which I know some families do a whip around. Yeah,
and you know what, do it in place of a gift,
just go you know what, we're not doing gifts. Everyone
put in forty five bucks for food, and we'll just
give each other the gift of not spending the day
in the kitchen, because we know it often comes down
(42:02):
to one or five sweaty ladies in the kitchen. And
if you don't feel like doing that this year, then
outsource that is. I love the gift that you should
give yourself. Holly, what have you got?
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I've got an essay that is going to be very
interesting to a certain portion of our audience, which.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Is in the New York Times.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
And it's like one of those you know, like those
interactive essays that have videos when you can scroll and
things pop out, and it's called is Gen X actually
the Greatest Generation?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I didn't click on that. I saw the headline. Now
I was like, this is not any of.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
My business, and it's all about Generation X. And it
has collected together a lot of the icons, American icons
obviously of Generation X for this very satisfying photo shoot
that has everyone from Claire Danes to like Christian Slater
and Amy Mann and Neve Campbell and Jennine Grufferlo and
all these like Generation X icons in these really big
(42:59):
photo shoots, which is great. But then the writer of
this piece is a really big, serious New York Times.
Piece is called Amanda fourteen. And it's the most satisfying
read because what I've decided, I think about generations. We
talk about generations all the time on this show, right,
because they're sort of arbitrary boundaries that are supposed to
say a lot about you, and I think we all
(43:19):
know that they don't really, but they also do. It's
like to misquote Julia Gillard, I think they don't say
everything about you, Yeah, but they definitely say.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Something about It's a cultural reference point by which it's
like a color palette by which you see the world.
And what's interesting is that we all have completely different ones.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, And because the technology that's available to you, the
big cultural touchstones, of course they influence you. Of course
it would be weird if they didn't. And gen X
were some of the things that she says in this
that there so good because it's basically about gen X
creativity because The people who are all interviewed in them
were some of the filmmakers and musicians, and it's about
the iconic gen X albums and gen X movies, all
(43:57):
of which are excellent. But also this what makes gen
X special, which is that they're the last generation who
were not online until they were adults. But they went
through that whole change, but they had childhoods that did
not have technology in them. They were latch key kids.
It was before helicopter parenting. So they're often discussed as
(44:17):
being this cohort of like lots of divorced parents too,
So this cohort of like unpatrolled, unsupervised teens roaming the world.
You know, like, this is what gen X was, like,
this is what the kids in Stranger Things are meant
to be and the kids in et are meant to be,
and you know all of those and how that fostered
a certain amount of tolerance for boredom and creativity and
(44:38):
all these things. And it's just such a beautiful and
interesting essay. So I'm recommending that, particularly to anyone who
is gen X. If you're wondering what gen X is,
there's a bit of argument whether it's you were born
between nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty or whether you're born
between nineteen sixty four and nineteen eighty four. Either way,
I'm pretty much slap bang in the middle of that.
(44:58):
And those either a boomer or gen X, Yeah, what happened,
And with some of the things in it that are
very true. They're talking about gen X heroes and how
we never expected our heroes to be perfect. We always
had our characters had the freedom to be flawed. And
I was reading that and being like, yes, that's what
I'm always arguing that there's no obligation to be exemplary.
We have a sensibility that's very much about rejecting norms.
(45:21):
Blah blah blah blah blah. There's probably never going to
be a gen X president. They were saying of the US,
we've probably missed that gap. Obama just would squeak in
if you took the sixty one and Real so full
of all these really interrithing things. I absolutely loved it.
And if it is your era, it's like classic gen
X movies Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, the Breakfast Club sixty Okay,
(45:43):
it's like a walk down memory Lane in nineteen ninety four,
definitely maybe came our ill communication pilafe. I'm probably talking
in a language you don't understand. Anyway, it's an epic essay,
but I'm throwing in one extra tiny little recommendation, which
is a very wholesome one. This is the most megan
thing I ever do in the year. And I think
I might have mentioned it before, but at the beginning
of December, me and Billy did this on the weekend
(46:04):
and it was so satisfying. We get a jar, an
empty jar, and we write down all the Christmas movies
that we love on pieces of paper and we put
them in the jar and we put the lid on it.
And then whenever it's movie night, which is like weekend
nights and stuff, you go in and you pull a
random one out and we watch a Christmas movie and
it's our little jar of Christmas movies. And if you've
got kids, it's the best thing ever. That's a cue.
(46:24):
Oh I like it. We watched Jingle all the Way
on the weekend with Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to find a toy.
It was not a particularly great movie, but it is
die Hard. There's fun. Oh Diehard's in there. Oh yeah,
Diehard's in there. All the classics are in there. So
I'll put a picture up of our little jar of
Christmas movies.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Thank you so much for joining us, and do not
forget that Saturdays are when Parenting out Loud drops That
has Monique Bowley, Amelia Lester, and Stacy Hicks. New episode
dropping tomorrow. Find it in its own feed by searching
Parenting out Loud and tap follow so you don't miss
an episode.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
A link, as always, will be in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
And before we go, big thank you to our team
group executive producer Ruth Devine, Executive producer Sashatanic.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Senior audio producer is Leah Porges, our video producer is
Josh Green, and our.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Junior content producer is Tessa Kodovic. Bye bye, Mamma. Mia
acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've
recorded this podcast.
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