June 12, 2025 • 47 mins
It popped up in The White Lotus, has reached peak celebrity level in Hollywood with everyone from Taylor Swift to Jennifer Anniston a fan, and is the latest personality test we’re using to put ourselves neatly into boxes (because chaos is exhausting). Welcome to the resurgence of the Enneagram.
On today's episode, Jessie, Holly and friend of the pod, Claire Murphy discuss why, for some, it's just a numbers game, and for others, the Enneagram is a map by which to live.
Plus, in recommendations: Murphy brings a spicy book series, Jessie’s all over (at last) a buzzy docuseries, and Holly’s been glued to a delicious new TV binge.
And in Best & Worst: a celeb’s viral video that's very Holly.com, a cursed algorithm that haunts our hosts, and a wholesome Saturday night family feast.
Support independent women's media
Recommendations
Claire recommends The Kingdom of Lies by Stacia Stark.
Jessie recommends Drive To Survive on Netflix.
Holly recommends Sirens on Netflix.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to
Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday Show where
we just talk about stuff. We walk away from the
news cycle and we just have fun and we.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Don't get any complaints about that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Actually we don't.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
People are very happy.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Generally speaking, people are like, yay, Friday Show, love it
and joining us today on the Friday Show is want
to play Murphy.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
You might know me from such other Mamma Mia podcasts
as The Quickie and our new health podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Well, you can call me Claire everywhere.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Because I'm very excited to be back out loud today.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You see that I skipped the date because it's a
superstitious problem.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, and you're getting quite where we weren't.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I am getting quite.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I stick you right there, because Friday the thirteenth is
not unlucky.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It is the patriarchy.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
It is actually a day for the goddess of fertility, Frayer,
and it was supposed to be all about women, which
is why Christianity, I'm presuming, turned it around to be
something that was bad for everybody. So no, Friday the
thirteenth not unlucky. We celebrate Freyer, the Goddess of fertility.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
This is why we have Murphy on the show, because.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
We just go off vibes. I'm here with a fact better.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So I'm Holly Wayne right, and this is Friday, the
celebration day for Freyer, the Goddess of fertility.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm Jesse Stevens. I'm excited about Friday the thirteen. It
sounds a bit sexy, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It is Go and get up the duff again. You've
still got a uterist that is functional.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Go your hardest, Okay, let's bring it doing things back.
Thank you Murphy on today's show, What's Your Number? Why
Hollywood is obsessed with personality tests right now, and why
putting ourselves in boxes has never been more appealing. Also
recommendations include one of Jesse's trademark late adoptions to a
TV classic, Murphy's new romanticy obsession, and a delicious TV binge.
(02:05):
And our best and worst of the week include very
holy Celebrities, labor inducing dance, No I wonder who that,
a pretty twisted algorithm, and a very wholesome Saturday night.
But first, Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
In case you missed it, sober sauna raves are the
new night out.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Sober sauna raves.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, so what does a sauna party look like? You
might ask? Well, one writer for a publication called ID
just attended an event in London and it began with
a non alcoholic presecca, followed by a dance in a
sweat soapd sauna where everyone is in their swimwear. And
my favorite detail of this article was when the author said,
(02:51):
I begin to feel unpleasantly hot, and yeah, mate, you're
in a sauna. There's a trombonist, there's a cold plunge,
there's a trombonist. I thought it was It looked to
me like a saxophone. But in the article trombonist. Is
that how you would say it, Claire.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I would presume so.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
But why well, they need some music, they need some
live music in the sauna. I don't even know how
they made.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It from bonus makes logic sense, I guess exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And it's all set up to give you a very
fun night without paying the price the next day. Now,
this is not just a phenomenon occurring on the other
side of the world. There are some happening in a
bunch of capital cities everywhere, and sauna use is exploding
in Australia, similarly to the cold plunge, which we discussed
on the podcast a little while ago. Claire, did you
go to a sauna rave on the weekend? Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
You know, that's my regular Saturday evening friends. My first
reaction to this is a visceral, like full body no
thank you. But then a part of me was like,
this might be like the great leveler, because there is
no way that I can compete with a woman in
a nightclub who knows how to do makeup properly because
I don't, And so like, I rock in already looking
(03:59):
probably slightly sweaty and red. So I feel like everybody
is going to be more than slightly sweaty and very red.
And there's no brand of makeup that I know on
the market that can survive.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
A sauna rave. So I feel like maybe this is
a great leveler where we can all just look at
each other and see each other like real faces, maybe.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
As we are. Because the other thing is you don't
need a hot nightclub dress. Now we're in a dress
now you're just in some whatever, potentially new, which is
again great level.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And very slippery. I like the idea of how slippery
everything is in this place.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I don't know, but sauna wood is different. You know,
if you've been in a sauna and they're made of
that wood, that's like really good.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
But I'm in all the bodies, we are all weird, culippery,
a very slippery. I'm from the nineties, and a good
rave should feel like a sauna. That's the whole point.
You're supposed to get sweaty and hydrate. That is the
key to it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Feel like Holly, you weren't on non alcoholic proseccos.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's how I feel white.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I'm gonna say something controversial. Is it wrong to not
want to be too hot or too cold? Because I
feel like you're not allowed to say that anymore. That
I like being in a lovely temperature. I went to
a one of those spars that have opened up recently.
You pay forty bucks and there's like a steam room
and a sauna and a cold plunge, a lot of
that about at the moment, and I just went, well,
this pool is I don't know, thirty degrees. That's great,
(05:19):
I'll just sit in a spa. I don't need to
be uncomfortable for a moment. Like and I was looking
at these other people getting in their coal plunge and
their sweating.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I just what you're the goldilocks of spa culture. This
is too hot and this is too cold.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
But like, can we be honest? These temperature extremes belonged
to people who existed before us, Right we evolved away
from requiring to be immune from extreme temperatures because we
created air conditioning and central heating and like combustion heaters.
So are we evolving to want to be twenty four degrees?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So true, the true every day of the.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Exactly and people who were freezing invented very, very big jackets.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What number are you? Apparently, I'm a nine. Threes are
best in terms of riches and fame, but sevens are happiest.
Taylor Swift is a three, Aniston is a six, Amy
Pop is an eight, Zuckerberg is a five, Glennan Doyle
is a four. If you have no idea what I'm
talking about, welcome. We're talking about anyagrams, because right now
(06:21):
it seems like everybody is talking about anygrams. So either
of you two know what your anagram number is.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, I for some reason did a course years.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Ago, a whole course, so not just an online quiz.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
No, I'm trying to remember the reason. But I think
someone was doing a course in it and needed people
to work on. So I was like a lure, like
a rat. You're a subject, like a labrat. I was
a subject and I came back as and I loved
your introduction, Hollywayn Wright, because I am a type three.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You are a three.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I am a Taylor Swift. She's called the achiever. My
basic fear is worthlessness, and my basic desire is to
feel valuable and worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So ambitious, right driven, image oriented, success oriented. Now, Murphy,
we might get to you in a minute, because I
have a feeling you reject all have words. Yes, So
to explain a little bit about what the eneagram is,
here's an expert in the space, Jackie Pollock from Human Leadership,
giving us a quick summary.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
The anigram is a model. In fact, some people refer
to it as a map, and it represents nine different
ways of viewing the world. So think of it like
nine different type patterns, and the patterns are around how
we feel, how we think, and how we behave. The
aniogram goes much deeper. It doesn't just look at what
(07:41):
you do. It explores why you do it. It's the
core motivation that sits underneath why we do what we do.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And the way that you find out your eniogram number
is you do a test, either a free online one
which I'm sure is very accurate, or a full course
like our friend Jesse Stevens. You can get us into
this or not, and it will present you with a
list of basic statements and then rate your response to them.
Those statements might be just things like I enjoy being
(08:12):
by myself more than being with others, and you kind
of go agree, disagree, strongly agreed, or you get that stuff,
and then it sorts you like the sorting hateah into
a number, as you have touched on Jesse. Three is
the achiever. Some others include I won't do them all,
but some others include the reformer, which is type one principled, purposeful,
self controlled, the individualist Type four sensitive, expressive, dramatic, self absorbed,
(08:38):
the loyalist that's our friend Jennifer Aniston coming in at
number six, committed, security or inted, responsible, and anxious. I'm
a nine apparently, which is a peacemaker. I don't know
if I am, really, but apparently I think I am
easy going, receptive, agreeable, complacent. That's me. And the reason
that we're talking about this because this model has actually
been around for ages, been around for more than seventy years,
(08:59):
and it has all kinds of different backgrounds which are
quite complicated. But right now everybody's quite into self optimization,
which is often seen as a bit of a reaction
to uncontrollable circumstance dances. I don't know if that rings
any bells anyone. Then we turn to this kind of
making order. But also because of celebrities as always right
so famously, the White Lotus creator Mike White loves an anagram,
(09:23):
makes his cast do them, also does them for all
his characters. Ideally he likes it if they match up, then.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
That makes total sense. He's a storyteller. He needs like
there's a sense of you work within an archetype and
then you might disrupt it. But I understand why it's
consistent with Mike White very much.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
And people like AaB Pohlar get all their mates to
take them. Apparently that sounds like a fun night. I
have a theory about personality types, which is, no matter
how scientific or how spiritual, whether or not you like
them depends on your personality. To so Murphy, for example,
you reject all of them, am I corrects.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Reject is a harsh word, but yes, I feel like
you can lump enneagrams in with the same type of thing,
like which friends character are you? You quizzes or all
these horoscopes that you know, whichever rising moon or whatever
you have yourself in Like, I get it, I know
why people do it. I understand it. We all want
to understand ourselves better, and we like giving ourselves little labels.
(10:22):
We like to tell people what those labels are. And
I would really like to know when you do these
quiz whether you are one hundred percent truthful or whether
you can ever be because you have ideas about who
you are, but whether you really can actually express them
the way that others see you as a whole different thing.
Humans are so weird that we feel like we've got
to understand every tiny molecule as it's lined up and
(10:47):
comes out as our personality. It feels like a supplement
for religion, Like if you feel like you don't have
a faith, or you don't have something to believe in,
that these kinds of things can kind.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Of feel that void a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
So like I believe in enneagrams as much as I
believe in Catholicism, which is like zero oh.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay, spoken like a true eight challenger, powerful, decisive, will, full,
confrontational jesse. That's a throat out about Catholicism right there.
It's Friday. I don't know if I want to go.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
It's the interrupt but they're like nothing against people who
believe in Catholicism or want to believe that enneagrams describe
their friends spirituality, or want to find out which friends
character they are. Like if that makes you feel good,
I'm not going to stop you, but I don't subscribe.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
It's interesting your spiritual point because what I found interesting
that I learned at this course I did, yes, was
that there's this overlap of people sort of within Christianity,
like faith based institutions, who are very interested in this.
I agree with you that humans are desperate for a
coherent narrative and that is what religion and faith gave
(11:55):
us a few generations ago. And obviously we know that
religious adherence is going down, So there is this kind
of gap that people are trying to fill. On the
one hand, I go, is it doing any harm If
people find that this helps them, if it help understand
themselves and their own motivations, and maybe that's a good thing.
But on the other hand, do we end up using
(12:16):
personality tests as an excuse? So if Holly finds that
she's the peacemaker, next time you come into contact with conflict,
do you go, well, I'm not good at conflict? Like
is there something that stunts our growth mindset or our
understanding is people that are ever changing rather than set
in stone.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
But also then do you ignore parts of yourself for
the sake of being that number three that you want
to be? So if you want to be a peacemaker
and you want to work at that, and that is
actually naturally part of your personality, but you kind of
suppress it because you're like, well that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Doesn't fit the narrative.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yeah, Like you know, it's like do you want to
subscribe to all of this and make it your identity?
So like I don't walk around saying, oh, guys, my
name's Claire and I'm such a Scorpio eight like, it
just doesn't a lot of people who I am right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
This is interesting because a lot of people do. I
think your point, Jesse, by how useful it is. Obviously
there are experts in this field who could go deep
about how useful it is. But over my course of
my career, I've been sent to quite a few management
courses and things like that by various employers, and they
love a personality test, right, those kind of things. And
one of the points of that is you're supposed to
(13:26):
find out who you are, but then you're also supposed
to be able to identify who your team is and
work out how better to manage them or manipulate them. Basically,
that's a negative word for get the best out of them, right,
And so that's what it's used for, and it can
be very useful. When I was younger, like you, Claire,
I think I have eight rising in that, I was like,
(13:48):
don't put me in a box, man, like you can't
describe all my complexities by this simple number. I won't
have it. But it was very useful for me to learn,
as like a young person that everybody's motivations are different
and when you understand what matters to different people in
different ways. You can make work, for example, more satisfying
(14:08):
for them. That's a truth that is interesting. But I
do think that people do use it as a personal brand.
Like if everybody in Hollywood is loving doing the enneagrams
and ambitious successful people tend to be threes, then three
is the most high status, you know what I mean,
So everybody wants to be that, so it kind of
shifts the testing.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I saw a term that I thought was really an
interesting way of putting it, which is, we are experiencing
the rise of curated selfhood like and the interrogation of
selfhood in a new way, which I understand that people
might turn their nose up to. And there is a
study phenomenon called the Barnum effect, which is if you
(14:48):
make anything broad or flattering enough, then people will see
themselves in it. So, Holly, I guarantee that if we swapped,
then I could probably see a lot of parts in
myself in your aneagram, and you the same to me.
But I also don't want to undermine people who have
found this really useful and have done legitimate research in
(15:09):
this space. And ultimately it's about understanding how fundamentally different
a lot of us are. We are motivated by entirely
different things, often want different things, We have different values,
and to try and understand that often makes us a
better partner, or a better friend.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or a better the way we can walk around thinking, well,
everybody's like me, they ought to be exactly Yeah, I
think what I think.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah, And I guess I'm going to be hypocritical here
because if you look at the kind of person that
I am, I'm very much an in the moment person.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I'm not a future planner.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I'm not someone who sets down with their manager every
year and says, here's my five year success plan.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Like, I'm just not that person. So for me to
try and.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Think of these things as ways to better understand myself
in a bigger picture, I'm not seeking enlightenment. My motivation
is to be as happy and as successful as I
can be in this moment today, talking to you too,
recording this episode ab out loud, like that is how
my mind works. So I guess for me, these things
(16:12):
feel like fantasy because it's like I'm not striving to
achieve a better me. I'm striving to achieve a better
community around me, if you know what I mean, Like
I want to be a good person, and so I
hope that I am a good person, and I hope
that my actions show that I'm a good person. But
I'm not into, like, I don't know, achieving some next
(16:32):
level of enlightenment.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
We definitely won't like such. You definitely won't like this
next bit then, because Jesse's right about how curated self
is having a big moment, and everyone in my life
has been passing around this link this week to this
soul reading chat GPT plug in.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Right, Oh my god, I've seen this.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, so what you do is you And I'm not
recommending this to anybody, but may this be a cautionary tale.
You go to it, it asks you for your name,
your date of birth, your place of birth, and where
you live now so data harvesting we call that data.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And you're big bank details.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And then it gives you a spookly correct soul reading.
And I tried it today and it told me that
I was a story keeper and a natural narrator, and
I was like, wow, Jesse, this thing is really.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
She interrupted me from my work, Claire, and she turned
to me and said, Jesse, you won't believe it. It's
so accurate. And I could see her head getting bigger
and bigger, and I turned to Holly and I went, mate,
they've googled you. They've googled you author Holly Wayne, right,
you idiot.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
But also too, I want to know someone who's done
a soul reading. And chat GPT's come back and said,
you are a dark black sludge on society who should
literally just live as a hermit and not impact another
human being for as long as you shall live. Like,
no one's getting that soul run now, anyone's getting happy
rainbows and unicorns.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And as Jesse rightly points out chat GPT, it's just
carrying me into and I was like, wow, it's right,
And she's like, you are a dickhead. I know other
people who live by numbers, like the numerology, and then
of course there are star signs. We talked for a
while about how they've been having a moment, and I've
still got that app on my phone that oh yeah
every day. Today. It told me that today was a
(18:15):
good day to accept that I have responsibilities, which seems
quite rude. And then it told me I should be
aspiring to inbox zero, which is nonsense, and to declutter
my desk, and I'm sensing a theme here, and I
think that it's a points. It starts ganging upon.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Me as someone who achieves in bog zero every single day.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh stop it, Okay, Now she's definitely exhibiting more of a.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Form I am, I suppose haunted by the question like
who is in there? Right like? And I think that's
actually a deeply existential, deeply spiritual question that I am
lacking the framework to answer. And something about these tests
is like scratches the surface.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
See, I'm of the opinion like who is in there
is none of my business. It's literally just exist and
be good, be nice to people, and don't be a dick.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
This is a key to happiness right here. From Playmouth.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Out Louders in a moment, some recommendations for your weekend,
including two TV shows and a very sexy book series.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Out Louders, We've got a listener dilemma and we need
your collective wisdom to help us and our partners UI
solve it. Please. So here's the problem. I think I've
been a bad friend, says our listener, and I'm not
proud of it. I've canceled on my best friend a
few times recently, but last Friday was the worst timing ever.
I texted her an hour before our dinner to say
I couldn't make it because I was exhausted after a
(19:41):
hectic work week. What I didn't know was that she'd
planned to tell me some really difficult news that night.
She'd just been made redundant at work and was completely
devastated about it. Instead of having someone to talk to,
she ended up alone in a restaurant before heading home.
I only found out the next day when she posted
a vague when it rains its pause comment on social media.
(20:02):
When I messaged her, she told me everything and mentioned
she'd specifically wanted our catch up to talk about it
because she needed support. Now her replies my messages is
short and I can tell she's hurt. I feel terrible.
I've been that friend who keeps saying let's reschedule without
realizing the impact. I want to make it right, but
I worry I've damaged our friendship. The question is what
(20:22):
do you do next?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
A grand gesture? It's time for a grand gesture. I
think sent flowers, even a phone call, show up to
a doorstep. I reckon, You've got to do something that
you own it and you apologize. And I'll also say
that what I've noticed my friends and I doing recently
is when something like this happens and you really need
to see them, we say it because you don't want
(20:46):
to put the other person in a position where, for
very good reason, they cancel and they don't know how
important that catch up was to you. I had a
friend going through something recently and he said, Hey, the
Tuesday catch up, I really need it, and I was like, okay,
that's good, I will not canceling. Yeah, yeah, exactly right,
Like I'll make sure I.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Don't Murphy, what do you think she should do next?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You have been a really shit friend.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I'm sorry to say that out loud, but as you
get old, it gets harder and harder to make time
to sit down with your friends and have conversations like
life will take you over and it will spin you
off in different stratospheres, and it gets increasingly more difficult
to bring you all back together to support each other.
And I'm eternally grateful for my friendship group who do
show up, but there have been friends over the years
(21:28):
who have let me down and who have left me
hanging when I've needed them at the most important times
of my life, and I really have never truly fully
forgiven them for it.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And it's something that's probably I need to work on too.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
But I feel like in a situation like this, in
order to be forgiven for not being there at a
moment where you absolutely needed to be there, it's just time,
all you can do is keep chipping away back at
your friend. Let them know fully take responsibility. I'm so sorry.
That was really shitty of me. Don't try and justify it,
(22:05):
and just let them know how important they are to
you despite this moment where some of our moments we're
not one moment in particular, but that might change the
future of your friendship forever.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So bear that in mind and just do.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Your best to repair that by just turning up and
being present.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Out Louders, what would you do next? Share your thoughts
in the mummea out loud Facebook group. Also, if you
have a dilemma, send it to us at out loud
at mummea dot com dot au. We would love to help.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Vibes ideas atosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Okay, friends, it's Friday, of a week with a long
weekend so it feels even better. We want to help
set up your weekends with our best recommendations.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Holly, would you please do the honest first.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I know a lot of out louders have already watched this,
But if there are out louders who are like, should
I or shouldn't I? The answer is yes, sirens, Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yes to watch it. Loved it, loved it, loved it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I haven't and I've heard with that like it's good
but not good is fair?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It's not perfect, but what it is is very satisfying.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
What is this place? And why does everyone look like
an easter egg? Is this still their property? Mikilah, she's
my boss. I get to call her Kiki. It's a
really special honor. Hey, hey, well shielding a scepter? This
is this is my sister. I didn't know you existed,
trust me. So and I are very close.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And why didn't she tell me about you?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Where are your tattoos?
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I remove them?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Are imagine sister tattoo? Kiki said it was trashy. My
sister seems to really worship your wife.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, Kiki has that effect on people.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yes, breath.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Ten out of ten Mine, Take My Gun.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's based on a play right by this woman called
Molly Smith Metzler, and the premise is there are these
sisters who have sort of lost touch over to and
one of them is at home looking after their sick
dad and the other one, the younger one, has gone
off and lived her life. And when the older one
goes to find the younger one, she finds that she's
living on this beautiful island sort of like Nantucket. Think
(24:24):
the perfect couple, Think Nantucket with this very charismatic, cult
leader kind of woman called Kiki, and she is her
personal assistant, and all kinds of shit goes down. The
thing that's great about it is the performances unbelievable. So
Keiky is played by Julianne Moore, who is an amazing actress,
the sisters, and Megan Fahi from White and Millie Olcock,
(24:47):
who is the Australian actress who is in Upright with
Tim Minchin and who's now massive in Hollywood because she's
so oh she is the most watchable person.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
And so she was in Games How's the Dragon?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, she's a House of Dragons person, and now she
is in this and she plays the sort of the
wayward younger sister. If you like. It's really interesting because
on the surface of it, it seems like a romp,
like it's very stylistically gorgeous to look at, but actually
the subject matter is quite heavy, like it deals with
class stuff and childhood trauma stuff and addiction. But it's
(25:22):
just so good. And Kevin Bacon did I mention.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I'm okay, you've convinced me that sounds really good.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It's really good. It's kind of like a cap center bread. Oh.
The tone's a bit weird because it does go between
this really heavy stuff to this kind of slightly ridiculous stuff.
But the ending, the twist is good. It's satisfying. I
thoroughly enjoyed it. I would happily waste several hours of
my life watching it again.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
It also brings a bit of a paranormal vibe to it, too,
which you never fully quite know whether it is or
it isn't.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
What I like the best about this is you think
you know a character and you start to get to
like them, and then you don't like them anymore, and
then you get to like them, and then you don't
like them.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
It is like literally clear on and off the whole time.
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's really well written. It's called Sirens and it's on Netflix.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Well, I also have a Netflix recommendation. It's an indie
little documentary.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Oh no, Jess always bringing me Indian little documentaries. Please
tell it's called Drive to Survive. How old is Drive
to Survive? Jesse?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Well, I've started at season one because I never watched it.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
What season is currently in the splash?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
It's maybe like seven nine, something.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Like that indie little docer that has completely changed the
face of a sport and industry, racing.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Yeah, these guys have an almost fighter pilot mentality, and
that's what separates them from mere mortals.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
All I ever do is pray for a safe race.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I never ought that I'd be there one day watching
my son. For me, it's harder after hard that they yeah, yeah,
failure a failure.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
The season I'm watching is set in twenty eighteen. They
know nothing yet of the COVID.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Oh god, and here's you will remember that we were
back then.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Amazing exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
You'll never have heard this before. But guys, you don't
have to be inter racing to enjoy horse racing. I
do I mean the car racing. I don't care about
anything less than the cars and the room, and I
don't get it. And it's Lucas. He's so deep in
it and has loved it since he was a little kid.
And Claire got into it and I went, all right, fine,
I'll watch one episode. And I am so deep in
(27:37):
the drama, the bitchiness, the cars, the inn team fighting,
the neck muscles, so you know how they've all got
really thick next because I've got to work out the
next which is fine.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
The helmets are heavy.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
The helmets are the force of the force, the force Holly,
the way you've got to go into a turn, like
I like being in Monaco and then I'm in Belgium
and Daniel Ricardo just won and I was like.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
He just real life.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Put a Facebook status spoiler Daniel Ricardo one in Monaco.
I've finally learned how to say the word Grand Prix
like it's really it's so much fun. So look, it's
a great one to watch with your partner if they
love it. But it's one of the best docoes.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It is I have watched it. It's really good. But
it's so interesting the phenomena of It is so interesting
now because it literally has changed the face, like when
it was the one in Melbourne this year and all
the celebrities go to the fashion on the grid and
all that. None of that was really a thing before
Drive to Survive and it was seen as a bit daggy.
And now every sport has one of these docos and
(28:40):
most of them are not very good.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
And the way that it's brought women in because women
are suddenly like, oh, I'm here for the storyline.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
But even if I don't, I've always been fans and
supporters of Grand Prixs, like we've forgotten kind of part
of the fandom of Grand Prix, and this has kind
of highlighted the fact that we've been here the whole time.
Not we me personally don't watch racing, but women have
been there the whole time, and this is kind of
highlighting just how.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Much they are a part of it already.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Did you know that there's nothing that says that a
Formula one driver has to be You can be a
man or of woman. It's just that are there any women? No,
there's not.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
There's been attempts coming up through ranks of various other
racing sports, but none have made it to the Formula
one track.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yet, Claire, what is your recommendation?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I feel like it is my duty now every time
I come on this show to discuss very smart because
it's become part of my identity on out loud. If
you recall back in the day, I read you some
pages from the Aquitar series, which I think Hollie is
still slightly damaged by. But I am here to recommend
you a different series because after you finished reading Akata
(29:45):
or Crescent City or Throne of Glass or any of
the Sarah J. Mass books, you come to the end
and you have posts Sarah J. Mass depression because there's
no more books and we have to wait for the
next ones. You get a little bit of a thrill
out of you know, Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, and
then you have to wait for those books to keep
being written, and you're in a black hole.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So bloody authors aren't writing them fast enough? Oh then not,
Holy make up your patterns. People.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I'm sending desperate social media messages, which I'm sure i'm
the only one, to my favorite authors telling them to
hurry it along, and they don't respond.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I don't know why.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
But let me tell you about Stacia Stark's series. It's
called Kingdom of Lies. It has filled a hole in
my life that left me just flailing about after Sarah J.
Mass's books ran out. There's four in the series that
starts off with the Court So Cruel and lovely. It
is a epic world building adventure that involves humans and
(30:43):
hybrids and Fay and the crossing over and the love
stories between them. Plus they're also fighting in epic war
in order to allow hybrids to continue to exist in
this world. There's so many great characters. The male characters
are written just Chef's Kiss beautifully, and the female characters,
which is in my brand of Romanticy, they are strong, sassy,
(31:08):
like powerful in credible women.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Kingdom of Lies. If you're in an Akatar hole, this
will get you out of it.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Can I ask you a quick question, Claire? If you
are someone who has never dipped your toe in, but
you are going all right, maybe I got to start?
Where am I starting? What's the book I pick up tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Okay, there's two.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Because the thing that got me into Romanticy was our
colleague Nicole constantly walking around the office saying, akata I
had no idea what she was talking about. She's like,
you got to read it, you gotta read it, and
I was like, I don't even know what that is.
Someone finally handed me It's up short for a Court
of Thorns and Roses. Someone handed me that book and
I have not stopped reading Romanticy ever since. It sucked
(31:45):
me in and has done nearly everyone I know, but
the people who were holding out, like my mum and.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
My sister and me and Jesse and you and Jesse.
For them it was fourth wing.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
It was not so much fairy smart but dragon romance,
not with dragons, dragon adjacent. So the world building in
these stories are so incredible, Like the attention to detail
hell in creating these universes is like, they are my
two main recommendations Akata the original and you must go
(32:18):
to book two. If you read book one, you must.
You cannot leave it a book one, Okay, you cannot.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
We do need to do this, Jesse. You know, it's
interesting because when I meet people I don't know and
they find out I write books, women will say to
me what kind of books do you write? Which I
find a very difficult question to add, what is your
I don't know, I don't know, but I know the answer.
They want me to give fair ites, not me to
say romanticy, because they always want to tell me about
(32:48):
those books, like the amount of women I meet everywhere
all over Like who are just saying the books that
got me back into reading the books I can't stop reading.
I've read fifteen you know of them? Blah blah, It's
so interesting how much everybody loves them so well?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Do you know what I love too? Is like when
I meet new people.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
So my husband brought a couple around for dinner who
he works with now and will having a discussion and
you know where you're trying to find your common ground
with new people, And all it took for me was to.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Say to her, oh are you a reader? And like
that was it.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
The rest of the night we discussed all our favorite
romanticy books and we're our best friends now.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Like it.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Honestly, the community surrounding this is just it's next level.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It's so good. You got to get into.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
It, Okay, this Kingdom of lies? It recommending? Is it spicy? Yes,
of course.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I don't read anything other than I think probably like
a level three spice is my minimum. Now I've tried
level five not for me. Three and four yeah, okay.
Note there are some books that I have read that
I'm absolutely no thank you, but three four level Spice
is about my jam and I would put this at
about a level three and a half. So some of
(33:54):
those scenes are written in a way that like had
me thinking about it for quite a long time afterwards.
After the break, an argument about Beije, some wacky algorithms,
and some Saturday night fun.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's our best and Worst of the week.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
One unlimited out Loud acts. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
of the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week. And a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It's time for best and Worst. This is the part
of the show where we share a little more from
our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I've got a bone pick with you, Jesse Stevens. I
don't know if you're aware of this, Murphy, but Stevens
has been cheating on Mamma Mia out Loud. I had
heard rumors. Is this being confirmed? Yes, it's been confirmed.
She is presenting a show called Parenting out loud see
what they did. Then with one Amelia Lester, who is
also sometimes on.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Out loud, yes, she would know.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
And it's about all things parenting. It's not really about parenting,
it's about stories that parents would be interested in. And
because Jesse and Amelia are on it, it's very intelligent
and entertaining and I thoroughly enjoyed it. However, thank you.
I nearly had to pull over my car and call
you when I heard you defending all things beige when
it comes to baby clothes, nursery decor, interior design, furniture, bedding.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Hides, vomit, hides pooh like, hides urine.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Are you Kim Kardashian. This is the question because I
cannot wait for the beige days to go right. I
hate now that you walk into any I mean, I'm
not doing a lot of interior decorating, and don't get
me wrong, but if I am thinking about new bedding,
you whatever, and everything is beige and all the fancy
people's houses a beige that I see on the internet,
(35:49):
and it just makes me really sad, and I'm very
upset with you. Jesse. I thought more, I thought more
of you.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I thought you might like a bit of oatmeal, a
bit of flats, bit of just all the different shades
of beige. And I was talking about it in the show,
especially with kids. There's too many colors, there's too many sounds.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
There's nothing sadder than a really cute little kid in
a really tasteful oatmeal. Little kids are meant to be
in ridiculous clubs.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Have you seen the TikTok account said beige children? I
think it's called it.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Like a lady who points out sad beige children's out.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I'm going because, honestly, like I understand where you're coming from.
Because when I had my kids, which is a long
time ago now Matilda's fifteen, I was very anti the
blue pink thing, you know, because I'm that person, right,
So I was very anti the blue pink thing. So
I was all about neutrals, and I thought, like you,
I thought that might be a good idea. And then
I realized how sad it was to have a little
(36:45):
baby in a tasteful what might we call that paste?
We might call that color paste, and overall we might
call that one porridge. I don't know, but whatever it is,
it's sad. And then also as soon as Matilda exerted
her free will, she struck back with a whole lot
of nylon sequin flammable colors that I had no control
(37:08):
over anymore, and.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Then she went through her BINDI ow an, you're right,
it was a whole thing, and.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
It was a whole thing. But it's like when I
see and you know, I'm a big fan of Kimmy
the esteemed lawyer, Kim Kardashian, But when I see her
house and her children and they're all just in those colours,
even her graduation gowns and the hats, remember all in
those colors, I'm like, duh, dog, got a bit of emerald.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Green put on the But I agree. I agree that
some a Peter be living in prisons, and I have
feedback about that. I do think maybe we need it.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
To be fair. I think prisons are more of a
colorful environment.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Than If you want to find things to argue with
Jesse about, you can listen to that treacherous show she's
making an Amelia parenting out Loud. You'll find it in
a link in these show notes, or a new episode
will drop tomorrow and you can find it in the
This Glorious Mess feed My best, however, was Oh my god,
I've been dying to talk to you about this.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I need to know how you feel.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Go on, I also need you to explain it to
me a little bit, Jesse. So, one of my favorite obsessions,
as all out louders know, is Megan Duchess of Megan.
I love her not at all things Megan. She likes baige,
she never wears color. She's all neutrals and black, as
she was in this particular video. So as a little treat,
(38:22):
late last week, Megan dropped a video for I think
it was Lily Bett's birthday, the controversially named Lily Bet,
their youngest child. It was her birthday and Megan decided
to give us all a gift, which was a video
from inside the delivery suite where she and Prince Harry
are dancing to some inexplicably terrible song that's supposed to
(38:43):
bring on labor. Jesse, what was she doing?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Okay, how did you miss this? This is a trend
at around the time Lillabet was born where everyone who
was pregnant Laura Byrne did it. A bunch of people
on the internet would dance to that song heavily pregnant
like Steph CLEAs Smith would have done it. They danced
sexy isn't the word.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
They're dropping it low to get the baby out right.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
That's exactly it. That is exactly so.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
There's a bit of like twerking kind of going on
and lots of dancing, and the idea is to bring
on labor. Yes, and in this video, if you haven't
seen it out louders, please do yourself a favor because
Meg's is really good. So clearly she's she's showing off
some really good dancing rhythms, even in forty two weeks
or whatever. She was Harry not so much. Harry's moves
(39:28):
not so.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Is that the most delightful part of that video was
like watching him into the frame and you're like, you
are so embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
This is so cute and he's giving it this and
it's like, oh my god, did you sit down? Fresh
princes have won to see those sit down.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I thought it was fun.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I loved it. I loved it, And what I also
loved is because it was Megan. Then of course the
conspiracy started. People are like, her bump's not real, her
bump looks funny. She clearly had like monitors, tens, machines,
whatever on under her black dress, which is fine, but
that was some highlight of my week. I might have
watched that video fifty times over that cold weekend.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
I like the idea that all along they were creating content.
I just like that, and then they're drip feeding it.
It's like, I want lockdown style tiktoks, some more dancers
like just that they were doing that in I thought,
imagine if you're a nurse and you walked in and
just doing this weird.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Git but don't get in frame, don't get him frame.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
They're just like us. My worst I talked about a
lot this week, but definitely project ending that was the
end of an era and I'm just sad I wouldn't
get to see my friends as much anymore. My best
though was I had a voucher from my mum for
Christmas that we hadn't spent yet, and we booked an
advance to this restaurant which is at the Opera House
called Midden and my Dd So it is Australian indigenous
(40:47):
ingredients and it is literally at the Opera House. It
was Lucra and I Claren Rory, which I think since
the girls were born. The four of us without the
girls have spent like, you know, that's maybe our second dinner.
So it's so special when the four of us can
spend time us really interesting tastes. So there was an
amazing egg plant. We kangaroo. There was emu.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Are you an adventurous eater in general?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I'm not. I'm not.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
And so the fact that I loved it. Look, there
were some great roast potatoes. It's a great helmus. They
are beat they exactly beige. And the dam part the bread.
Because when we did a bunch of Northern Territory tourism
stuff a few years ago, we had this tour guide
who showed us about the berries and all the different tastes.
And there are jokes sometimes about how Australia doesn't have
(41:37):
a cuisine. Yeah, we've got the longest you know, running
population ever in Australia, forty thousand years. And the food
is so interesting and so nutritious and so yummy. And
to actually sit there and eat it and celebrate all
of those flavors.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Was so much and so sustainable and yes, seasonal and brilliant.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I love that exactly fun of kangaroo.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
This was just a little bit too fu for me.
But Claara and Luca had some crocodile.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I love crocodile. You can get it a pizza at
the Australian the Pub.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
It's delicious, really Okay, Claire, what was your worst?
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I need you all to steal yourselves for a minute,
because I'm about to play you something and it is
not good.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
So I now work on another podcast called Well, where
we are busting some myths about women's health. Now, unfortunately,
part of that means I need to find out what
the misinformation is that women are being fed about their bodies. Yes,
and what that has done has tragically interrupted my social
media algorithm. So I now get served not only really
(42:41):
great videos about women's health, but really really awful ones too.
And I don't mean misinformation, I mean corners of the
Internet I never thought.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I would tread.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Oh, for example, there is a certain group of men
in the world who are a little bit too obsessed
with women's menstrual cycles. Okay, if you are easily grossed out,
please just I don't know, look away for a second.
This won't take long. It's a lot, Okay, have a
(43:13):
listen to this.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Did my gooey little kitten leave her menstrul cup out
for daddy.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
You're such a good girl, Thank you, kitten.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Oh, it's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
It tastes like salty milk, and coins salty milk.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
It is exact exactly what you think. Does happened? Just happened?
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Oh my goodness. And that's not the kind of stuff
that's in your fairy smart that's no, no bridge too
far for you, okay. I will also point out another
woman who makes quote unquote Koda muffins Oh, which also
involve her menstrel cup being poured into the batter of
her muffins, which she claims is her husband's favorite.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Wow, it must be full of goodness, right, I guess
it's full of goodness, that's I mean, yes.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
But also body, the body can just get rid of things.
Sometimes it just wants to get rid of it, and
we just say bye bye and we do a foe.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
We don't put it back in.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
No, we don't have to put it back in.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
And I'm if we'll.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Reach a stage now how we used to will be
grossed out by breast milk, Like, will.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
We get to a point where where. I'm not sure
we will.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
But I'm just wearing it around. They make breast milk
like necklaces. Maybe we'll have a beautiful menstrual ring or something.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I'm really maybe into this. Your algorithm sounds terrified.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
It is messed up.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
So on that note, let's move into the best of
my week. As I leave you to be forever traumatized
by that bit of audio, Can I give a shout
out to the Arctic freeze we are currently explained in Australia.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Oh my god, I love cold weather so much.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
I live in the wrong country obviously, or the right country,
depending on who you speak to, because there's lots of
people who now live in Australia who used to live
in the Northern Hemisphere who have realized how ill equipped
Australian homes are winter. Oh yes, and they are like
we thought we'd come to Australia and be warm. I'm sorry, no,
that's not the case. We don't have enough insulation or
central heating to deal with that. You will need to
wear your north face vest inside. But I am a
(45:11):
cold lover. I love nothing more than wooly jumpers, puffy jackets,
hot water bottles. I have moved into our new house.
We have a wood fire and it is like that,
Oh my god, It's the most calming thing in the
world to just sit like. I don't even turn the
TV on. I literally just stare at the fire in
our laund room for hours.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I couldn't be more. I can't stand the cold. I
hate it.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
I hate it.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
I grew up in it like it's normal for me,
but I can't. I'm like, please, I just like the
temperature to be always, like you're saying about saunas. I
just like to get out of bed and not have
to think about whether it's hot or cold.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Yeah, just right.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
But do you not like putting on like gloves and
a scarf and a.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Beanie and walking out on like a really crisp morning
with like a really hot mug of tea, Like, oh delightful.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
We'll leave that with you. No, no, I I mean
I did do that this weekend. I was checking on
the plants with like twenty five layers on, but I
wasn't having a good time.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
That sounds like my ideal Sunday morning.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
That is all we have time for, my friends. Thank
you for being with us on another week through Mama
Mia out loud, we appreciate you. We also appreciate our
incredible team, so Jesse and Claire read them out.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer is
Leah Porgies.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
And video producer Josh Green. And our junior content producers
are Coco and Tessa.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Our studios. If you are watching us or if you
have seen us on socials, you'll know how beautiful they
are are styled with furniture from Fenton and Fenton and
you can find out more about that at Fenton Andfenton
dot com dot au.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Goodbye, Ye and out loud. As If you want another
little treat something to listen to, we thought we'd leave
you with a little bit of a conversation we had
on our subscriber episode yesterday. It was a really interesting one. Holly,
em and I unpacked the thirty six questions that you
need to ask to fall in love, and what we
did is we did some of them and you will
find out whether or not we are fell in love
(47:07):
by the end. A link as always be in the
show notes. Shout out to any Mum and me a
subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want
to support us, subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very
best way to do so. There's a link in the
episode description
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to
Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday Show where
we just talk about stuff. We walk away from the
news cycle and we just have fun and we.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Don't get any complaints about that.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Actually we don't.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
People are very happy.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Generally speaking, people are like, yay, Friday Show, love it
and joining us today on the Friday Show is want
to play Murphy.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
You might know me from such other Mamma Mia podcasts
as The Quickie and our new health podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Well, you can call me Claire everywhere.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Because I'm very excited to be back out loud today.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You see that I skipped the date because it's a
superstitious problem.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, and you're getting quite where we weren't.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I am getting quite.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I stick you right there, because Friday the thirteenth is
not unlucky.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It is the patriarchy.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
It is actually a day for the goddess of fertility, Frayer,
and it was supposed to be all about women, which
is why Christianity, I'm presuming, turned it around to be
something that was bad for everybody. So no, Friday the
thirteenth not unlucky. We celebrate Freyer, the Goddess of fertility.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
This is why we have Murphy on the show, because.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
We just go off vibes. I'm here with a fact better.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So I'm Holly Wayne right, and this is Friday, the
celebration day for Freyer, the Goddess of fertility.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm Jesse Stevens. I'm excited about Friday the thirteen. It
sounds a bit sexy, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It is Go and get up the duff again. You've
still got a uterist that is functional.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Go your hardest, Okay, let's bring it doing things back.
Thank you Murphy on today's show, What's Your Number? Why
Hollywood is obsessed with personality tests right now, and why
putting ourselves in boxes has never been more appealing. Also
recommendations include one of Jesse's trademark late adoptions to a
TV classic, Murphy's new romanticy obsession, and a delicious TV binge.
(02:05):
And our best and worst of the week include very
holy Celebrities, labor inducing dance, No I wonder who that,
a pretty twisted algorithm, and a very wholesome Saturday night.
But first, Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
In case you missed it, sober sauna raves are the
new night out.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Sober sauna raves.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, so what does a sauna party look like? You
might ask? Well, one writer for a publication called ID
just attended an event in London and it began with
a non alcoholic presecca, followed by a dance in a
sweat soapd sauna where everyone is in their swimwear. And
my favorite detail of this article was when the author said,
(02:51):
I begin to feel unpleasantly hot, and yeah, mate, you're
in a sauna. There's a trombonist, there's a cold plunge,
there's a trombonist. I thought it was It looked to
me like a saxophone. But in the article trombonist. Is
that how you would say it, Claire.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I would presume so.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
But why well, they need some music, they need some
live music in the sauna. I don't even know how
they made.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It from bonus makes logic sense, I guess exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And it's all set up to give you a very
fun night without paying the price the next day. Now,
this is not just a phenomenon occurring on the other
side of the world. There are some happening in a
bunch of capital cities everywhere, and sauna use is exploding
in Australia, similarly to the cold plunge, which we discussed
on the podcast a little while ago. Claire, did you
go to a sauna rave on the weekend? Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
You know, that's my regular Saturday evening friends. My first
reaction to this is a visceral, like full body no
thank you. But then a part of me was like,
this might be like the great leveler, because there is
no way that I can compete with a woman in
a nightclub who knows how to do makeup properly because
I don't, And so like, I rock in already looking
(03:59):
probably slightly sweaty and red. So I feel like everybody
is going to be more than slightly sweaty and very red.
And there's no brand of makeup that I know on
the market that can survive.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
A sauna rave. So I feel like maybe this is
a great leveler where we can all just look at
each other and see each other like real faces, maybe.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
As we are. Because the other thing is you don't
need a hot nightclub dress. Now we're in a dress
now you're just in some whatever, potentially new, which is
again great level.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And very slippery. I like the idea of how slippery
everything is in this place.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I don't know, but sauna wood is different. You know,
if you've been in a sauna and they're made of
that wood, that's like really good.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
But I'm in all the bodies, we are all weird, culippery,
a very slippery. I'm from the nineties, and a good
rave should feel like a sauna. That's the whole point.
You're supposed to get sweaty and hydrate. That is the
key to it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Feel like Holly, you weren't on non alcoholic proseccos.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's how I feel white.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I'm gonna say something controversial. Is it wrong to not
want to be too hot or too cold? Because I
feel like you're not allowed to say that anymore. That
I like being in a lovely temperature. I went to
a one of those spars that have opened up recently.
You pay forty bucks and there's like a steam room
and a sauna and a cold plunge, a lot of
that about at the moment, and I just went, well,
this pool is I don't know, thirty degrees. That's great,
(05:19):
I'll just sit in a spa. I don't need to
be uncomfortable for a moment. Like and I was looking
at these other people getting in their coal plunge and
their sweating.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I just what you're the goldilocks of spa culture. This
is too hot and this is too cold.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
But like, can we be honest? These temperature extremes belonged
to people who existed before us, Right we evolved away
from requiring to be immune from extreme temperatures because we
created air conditioning and central heating and like combustion heaters.
So are we evolving to want to be twenty four degrees?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So true, the true every day of the.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Exactly and people who were freezing invented very, very big jackets.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What number are you? Apparently, I'm a nine. Threes are
best in terms of riches and fame, but sevens are happiest.
Taylor Swift is a three, Aniston is a six, Amy
Pop is an eight, Zuckerberg is a five, Glennan Doyle
is a four. If you have no idea what I'm
talking about, welcome. We're talking about anyagrams, because right now
(06:21):
it seems like everybody is talking about anygrams. So either
of you two know what your anagram number is.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, I for some reason did a course years.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Ago, a whole course, so not just an online quiz.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
No, I'm trying to remember the reason. But I think
someone was doing a course in it and needed people
to work on. So I was like a lure, like
a rat. You're a subject, like a labrat. I was
a subject and I came back as and I loved
your introduction, Hollywayn Wright, because I am a type three.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You are a three.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I am a Taylor Swift. She's called the achiever. My
basic fear is worthlessness, and my basic desire is to
feel valuable and worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So ambitious, right driven, image oriented, success oriented. Now, Murphy,
we might get to you in a minute, because I
have a feeling you reject all have words. Yes, So
to explain a little bit about what the eneagram is,
here's an expert in the space, Jackie Pollock from Human Leadership,
giving us a quick summary.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
The anigram is a model. In fact, some people refer
to it as a map, and it represents nine different
ways of viewing the world. So think of it like
nine different type patterns, and the patterns are around how
we feel, how we think, and how we behave. The
aniogram goes much deeper. It doesn't just look at what
(07:41):
you do. It explores why you do it. It's the
core motivation that sits underneath why we do what we do.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And the way that you find out your eniogram number
is you do a test, either a free online one
which I'm sure is very accurate, or a full course
like our friend Jesse Stevens. You can get us into
this or not, and it will present you with a
list of basic statements and then rate your response to them.
Those statements might be just things like I enjoy being
(08:12):
by myself more than being with others, and you kind
of go agree, disagree, strongly agreed, or you get that stuff,
and then it sorts you like the sorting hateah into
a number, as you have touched on Jesse. Three is
the achiever. Some others include I won't do them all,
but some others include the reformer, which is type one principled, purposeful,
self controlled, the individualist Type four sensitive, expressive, dramatic, self absorbed,
(08:38):
the loyalist that's our friend Jennifer Aniston coming in at
number six, committed, security or inted, responsible, and anxious. I'm
a nine apparently, which is a peacemaker. I don't know
if I am, really, but apparently I think I am
easy going, receptive, agreeable, complacent. That's me. And the reason
that we're talking about this because this model has actually
been around for ages, been around for more than seventy years,
(08:59):
and it has all kinds of different backgrounds which are
quite complicated. But right now everybody's quite into self optimization,
which is often seen as a bit of a reaction
to uncontrollable circumstance dances. I don't know if that rings
any bells anyone. Then we turn to this kind of
making order. But also because of celebrities as always right
so famously, the White Lotus creator Mike White loves an anagram,
(09:23):
makes his cast do them, also does them for all
his characters. Ideally he likes it if they match up, then.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
That makes total sense. He's a storyteller. He needs like
there's a sense of you work within an archetype and
then you might disrupt it. But I understand why it's
consistent with Mike White very much.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
And people like AaB Pohlar get all their mates to
take them. Apparently that sounds like a fun night. I
have a theory about personality types, which is, no matter
how scientific or how spiritual, whether or not you like
them depends on your personality. To so Murphy, for example,
you reject all of them, am I corrects.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Reject is a harsh word, but yes, I feel like
you can lump enneagrams in with the same type of thing,
like which friends character are you? You quizzes or all
these horoscopes that you know, whichever rising moon or whatever
you have yourself in Like, I get it, I know
why people do it. I understand it. We all want
to understand ourselves better, and we like giving ourselves little labels.
(10:22):
We like to tell people what those labels are. And
I would really like to know when you do these
quiz whether you are one hundred percent truthful or whether
you can ever be because you have ideas about who
you are, but whether you really can actually express them
the way that others see you as a whole different thing.
Humans are so weird that we feel like we've got
to understand every tiny molecule as it's lined up and
(10:47):
comes out as our personality. It feels like a supplement
for religion, Like if you feel like you don't have
a faith, or you don't have something to believe in,
that these kinds of things can kind.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Of feel that void a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
So like I believe in enneagrams as much as I
believe in Catholicism, which is like zero oh.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay, spoken like a true eight challenger, powerful, decisive, will, full,
confrontational jesse. That's a throat out about Catholicism right there.
It's Friday. I don't know if I want to go.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
It's the interrupt but they're like nothing against people who
believe in Catholicism or want to believe that enneagrams describe
their friends spirituality, or want to find out which friends
character they are. Like if that makes you feel good,
I'm not going to stop you, but I don't subscribe.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
It's interesting your spiritual point because what I found interesting
that I learned at this course I did, yes, was
that there's this overlap of people sort of within Christianity,
like faith based institutions, who are very interested in this.
I agree with you that humans are desperate for a
coherent narrative and that is what religion and faith gave
(11:55):
us a few generations ago. And obviously we know that
religious adherence is going down, So there is this kind
of gap that people are trying to fill. On the
one hand, I go, is it doing any harm If
people find that this helps them, if it help understand
themselves and their own motivations, and maybe that's a good thing.
But on the other hand, do we end up using
(12:16):
personality tests as an excuse? So if Holly finds that
she's the peacemaker, next time you come into contact with conflict,
do you go, well, I'm not good at conflict? Like
is there something that stunts our growth mindset or our
understanding is people that are ever changing rather than set
in stone.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
But also then do you ignore parts of yourself for
the sake of being that number three that you want
to be? So if you want to be a peacemaker
and you want to work at that, and that is
actually naturally part of your personality, but you kind of
suppress it because you're like, well that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Doesn't fit the narrative.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yeah, Like you know, it's like do you want to
subscribe to all of this and make it your identity?
So like I don't walk around saying, oh, guys, my
name's Claire and I'm such a Scorpio eight like, it
just doesn't a lot of people who I am right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
This is interesting because a lot of people do. I
think your point, Jesse, by how useful it is. Obviously
there are experts in this field who could go deep
about how useful it is. But over my course of
my career, I've been sent to quite a few management
courses and things like that by various employers, and they
love a personality test, right, those kind of things. And
one of the points of that is you're supposed to
(13:26):
find out who you are, but then you're also supposed
to be able to identify who your team is and
work out how better to manage them or manipulate them. Basically,
that's a negative word for get the best out of them, right,
And so that's what it's used for, and it can
be very useful. When I was younger, like you, Claire,
I think I have eight rising in that, I was like,
(13:48):
don't put me in a box, man, like you can't
describe all my complexities by this simple number. I won't
have it. But it was very useful for me to learn,
as like a young person that everybody's motivations are different
and when you understand what matters to different people in
different ways. You can make work, for example, more satisfying
(14:08):
for them. That's a truth that is interesting. But I
do think that people do use it as a personal brand.
Like if everybody in Hollywood is loving doing the enneagrams
and ambitious successful people tend to be threes, then three
is the most high status, you know what I mean,
So everybody wants to be that, so it kind of
shifts the testing.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I saw a term that I thought was really an
interesting way of putting it, which is, we are experiencing
the rise of curated selfhood like and the interrogation of
selfhood in a new way, which I understand that people
might turn their nose up to. And there is a
study phenomenon called the Barnum effect, which is if you
(14:48):
make anything broad or flattering enough, then people will see
themselves in it. So, Holly, I guarantee that if we swapped,
then I could probably see a lot of parts in
myself in your aneagram, and you the same to me.
But I also don't want to undermine people who have
found this really useful and have done legitimate research in
(15:09):
this space. And ultimately it's about understanding how fundamentally different
a lot of us are. We are motivated by entirely
different things, often want different things, We have different values,
and to try and understand that often makes us a
better partner, or a better friend.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or a better the way we can walk around thinking, well,
everybody's like me, they ought to be exactly Yeah, I
think what I think.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah, And I guess I'm going to be hypocritical here
because if you look at the kind of person that
I am, I'm very much an in the moment person.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I'm not a future planner.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I'm not someone who sets down with their manager every
year and says, here's my five year success plan.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Like, I'm just not that person. So for me to
try and.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Think of these things as ways to better understand myself
in a bigger picture, I'm not seeking enlightenment. My motivation
is to be as happy and as successful as I
can be in this moment today, talking to you too,
recording this episode ab out loud, like that is how
my mind works. So I guess for me, these things
(16:12):
feel like fantasy because it's like I'm not striving to
achieve a better me. I'm striving to achieve a better
community around me, if you know what I mean, Like
I want to be a good person, and so I
hope that I am a good person, and I hope
that my actions show that I'm a good person. But
I'm not into, like, I don't know, achieving some next
(16:32):
level of enlightenment.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
We definitely won't like such. You definitely won't like this
next bit then, because Jesse's right about how curated self
is having a big moment, and everyone in my life
has been passing around this link this week to this
soul reading chat GPT plug in.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Right, Oh my god, I've seen this.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, so what you do is you And I'm not
recommending this to anybody, but may this be a cautionary tale.
You go to it, it asks you for your name,
your date of birth, your place of birth, and where
you live now so data harvesting we call that data.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And you're big bank details.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And then it gives you a spookly correct soul reading.
And I tried it today and it told me that
I was a story keeper and a natural narrator, and
I was like, wow, Jesse, this thing is really.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
She interrupted me from my work, Claire, and she turned
to me and said, Jesse, you won't believe it. It's
so accurate. And I could see her head getting bigger
and bigger, and I turned to Holly and I went, mate,
they've googled you. They've googled you author Holly Wayne, right,
you idiot.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
But also too, I want to know someone who's done
a soul reading. And chat GPT's come back and said,
you are a dark black sludge on society who should
literally just live as a hermit and not impact another
human being for as long as you shall live. Like,
no one's getting that soul run now, anyone's getting happy
rainbows and unicorns.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And as Jesse rightly points out chat GPT, it's just
carrying me into and I was like, wow, it's right,
And she's like, you are a dickhead. I know other
people who live by numbers, like the numerology, and then
of course there are star signs. We talked for a
while about how they've been having a moment, and I've
still got that app on my phone that oh yeah
every day. Today. It told me that today was a
(18:15):
good day to accept that I have responsibilities, which seems
quite rude. And then it told me I should be
aspiring to inbox zero, which is nonsense, and to declutter
my desk, and I'm sensing a theme here, and I
think that it's a points. It starts ganging upon.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Me as someone who achieves in bog zero every single day.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh stop it, Okay, Now she's definitely exhibiting more of a.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Form I am, I suppose haunted by the question like
who is in there? Right like? And I think that's
actually a deeply existential, deeply spiritual question that I am
lacking the framework to answer. And something about these tests
is like scratches the surface.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
See, I'm of the opinion like who is in there
is none of my business. It's literally just exist and
be good, be nice to people, and don't be a dick.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
This is a key to happiness right here. From Playmouth.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Out Louders in a moment, some recommendations for your weekend,
including two TV shows and a very sexy book series.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Out Louders, We've got a listener dilemma and we need
your collective wisdom to help us and our partners UI
solve it. Please. So here's the problem. I think I've
been a bad friend, says our listener, and I'm not
proud of it. I've canceled on my best friend a
few times recently, but last Friday was the worst timing ever.
I texted her an hour before our dinner to say
I couldn't make it because I was exhausted after a
(19:41):
hectic work week. What I didn't know was that she'd
planned to tell me some really difficult news that night.
She'd just been made redundant at work and was completely
devastated about it. Instead of having someone to talk to,
she ended up alone in a restaurant before heading home.
I only found out the next day when she posted
a vague when it rains its pause comment on social media.
(20:02):
When I messaged her, she told me everything and mentioned
she'd specifically wanted our catch up to talk about it
because she needed support. Now her replies my messages is
short and I can tell she's hurt. I feel terrible.
I've been that friend who keeps saying let's reschedule without
realizing the impact. I want to make it right, but
I worry I've damaged our friendship. The question is what
(20:22):
do you do next?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
A grand gesture? It's time for a grand gesture. I
think sent flowers, even a phone call, show up to
a doorstep. I reckon, You've got to do something that
you own it and you apologize. And I'll also say
that what I've noticed my friends and I doing recently
is when something like this happens and you really need
to see them, we say it because you don't want
(20:46):
to put the other person in a position where, for
very good reason, they cancel and they don't know how
important that catch up was to you. I had a
friend going through something recently and he said, Hey, the
Tuesday catch up, I really need it, and I was like, okay,
that's good, I will not canceling. Yeah, yeah, exactly right,
Like I'll make sure I.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Don't Murphy, what do you think she should do next?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You have been a really shit friend.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
I'm sorry to say that out loud, but as you
get old, it gets harder and harder to make time
to sit down with your friends and have conversations like
life will take you over and it will spin you
off in different stratospheres, and it gets increasingly more difficult
to bring you all back together to support each other.
And I'm eternally grateful for my friendship group who do
show up, but there have been friends over the years
(21:28):
who have let me down and who have left me
hanging when I've needed them at the most important times
of my life, and I really have never truly fully
forgiven them for it.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And it's something that's probably I need to work on too.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
But I feel like in a situation like this, in
order to be forgiven for not being there at a
moment where you absolutely needed to be there, it's just time,
all you can do is keep chipping away back at
your friend. Let them know fully take responsibility. I'm so sorry.
That was really shitty of me. Don't try and justify it,
(22:05):
and just let them know how important they are to
you despite this moment where some of our moments we're
not one moment in particular, but that might change the
future of your friendship forever.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So bear that in mind and just do.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Your best to repair that by just turning up and
being present.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Out Louders, what would you do next? Share your thoughts
in the mummea out loud Facebook group. Also, if you
have a dilemma, send it to us at out loud
at mummea dot com dot au. We would love to help.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Vibes ideas atosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Okay, friends, it's Friday, of a week with a long
weekend so it feels even better. We want to help
set up your weekends with our best recommendations.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Holly, would you please do the honest first.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I know a lot of out louders have already watched this,
But if there are out louders who are like, should
I or shouldn't I? The answer is yes, sirens, Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yes to watch it. Loved it, loved it, loved it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I haven't and I've heard with that like it's good
but not good is fair?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It's not perfect, but what it is is very satisfying.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
What is this place? And why does everyone look like
an easter egg? Is this still their property? Mikilah, she's
my boss. I get to call her Kiki. It's a
really special honor. Hey, hey, well shielding a scepter? This
is this is my sister. I didn't know you existed,
trust me. So and I are very close.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And why didn't she tell me about you?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Where are your tattoos?
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I remove them?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Are imagine sister tattoo? Kiki said it was trashy. My
sister seems to really worship your wife.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, Kiki has that effect on people.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yes, breath.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Ten out of ten Mine, Take My Gun.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's based on a play right by this woman called
Molly Smith Metzler, and the premise is there are these
sisters who have sort of lost touch over to and
one of them is at home looking after their sick
dad and the other one, the younger one, has gone
off and lived her life. And when the older one
goes to find the younger one, she finds that she's
living on this beautiful island sort of like Nantucket. Think
(24:24):
the perfect couple, Think Nantucket with this very charismatic, cult
leader kind of woman called Kiki, and she is her
personal assistant, and all kinds of shit goes down. The
thing that's great about it is the performances unbelievable. So
Keiky is played by Julianne Moore, who is an amazing actress,
the sisters, and Megan Fahi from White and Millie Olcock,
(24:47):
who is the Australian actress who is in Upright with
Tim Minchin and who's now massive in Hollywood because she's
so oh she is the most watchable person.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
And so she was in Games How's the Dragon?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, she's a House of Dragons person, and now she
is in this and she plays the sort of the
wayward younger sister. If you like. It's really interesting because
on the surface of it, it seems like a romp,
like it's very stylistically gorgeous to look at, but actually
the subject matter is quite heavy, like it deals with
class stuff and childhood trauma stuff and addiction. But it's
(25:22):
just so good. And Kevin Bacon did I mention.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I'm okay, you've convinced me that sounds really good.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It's really good. It's kind of like a cap center bread. Oh.
The tone's a bit weird because it does go between
this really heavy stuff to this kind of slightly ridiculous stuff.
But the ending, the twist is good. It's satisfying. I
thoroughly enjoyed it. I would happily waste several hours of
my life watching it again.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
It also brings a bit of a paranormal vibe to it, too,
which you never fully quite know whether it is or
it isn't.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
What I like the best about this is you think
you know a character and you start to get to
like them, and then you don't like them anymore, and
then you get to like them, and then you don't
like them.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
It is like literally clear on and off the whole time.
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It's really well written. It's called Sirens and it's on Netflix.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Well, I also have a Netflix recommendation. It's an indie
little documentary.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Oh no, Jess always bringing me Indian little documentaries. Please
tell it's called Drive to Survive. How old is Drive
to Survive? Jesse?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Well, I've started at season one because I never watched it.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
What season is currently in the splash?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
It's maybe like seven nine, something.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Like that indie little docer that has completely changed the
face of a sport and industry, racing.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Yeah, these guys have an almost fighter pilot mentality, and
that's what separates them from mere mortals.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
All I ever do is pray for a safe race.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I never ought that I'd be there one day watching
my son. For me, it's harder after hard that they yeah, yeah,
failure a failure.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
The season I'm watching is set in twenty eighteen. They
know nothing yet of the COVID.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Oh god, and here's you will remember that we were
back then.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Amazing exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
You'll never have heard this before. But guys, you don't
have to be inter racing to enjoy horse racing. I
do I mean the car racing. I don't care about
anything less than the cars and the room, and I
don't get it. And it's Lucas. He's so deep in
it and has loved it since he was a little kid.
And Claire got into it and I went, all right, fine,
I'll watch one episode. And I am so deep in
(27:37):
the drama, the bitchiness, the cars, the inn team fighting,
the neck muscles, so you know how they've all got
really thick next because I've got to work out the
next which is fine.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
The helmets are heavy.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
The helmets are the force of the force, the force Holly,
the way you've got to go into a turn, like
I like being in Monaco and then I'm in Belgium
and Daniel Ricardo just won and I was like.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
He just real life.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Put a Facebook status spoiler Daniel Ricardo one in Monaco.
I've finally learned how to say the word Grand Prix
like it's really it's so much fun. So look, it's
a great one to watch with your partner if they
love it. But it's one of the best docoes.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It is I have watched it. It's really good. But
it's so interesting the phenomena of It is so interesting
now because it literally has changed the face, like when
it was the one in Melbourne this year and all
the celebrities go to the fashion on the grid and
all that. None of that was really a thing before
Drive to Survive and it was seen as a bit daggy.
And now every sport has one of these docos and
(28:40):
most of them are not very good.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
And the way that it's brought women in because women
are suddenly like, oh, I'm here for the storyline.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
But even if I don't, I've always been fans and
supporters of Grand Prixs, like we've forgotten kind of part
of the fandom of Grand Prix, and this has kind
of highlighted the fact that we've been here the whole time.
Not we me personally don't watch racing, but women have
been there the whole time, and this is kind of
highlighting just how.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Much they are a part of it already.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Did you know that there's nothing that says that a
Formula one driver has to be You can be a
man or of woman. It's just that are there any women? No,
there's not.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
There's been attempts coming up through ranks of various other
racing sports, but none have made it to the Formula
one track.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yet, Claire, what is your recommendation?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I feel like it is my duty now every time
I come on this show to discuss very smart because
it's become part of my identity on out loud. If
you recall back in the day, I read you some
pages from the Aquitar series, which I think Hollie is
still slightly damaged by. But I am here to recommend
you a different series because after you finished reading Akata
(29:45):
or Crescent City or Throne of Glass or any of
the Sarah J. Mass books, you come to the end
and you have posts Sarah J. Mass depression because there's
no more books and we have to wait for the
next ones. You get a little bit of a thrill
out of you know, Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, and
then you have to wait for those books to keep
being written, and you're in a black hole.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So bloody authors aren't writing them fast enough? Oh then not,
Holy make up your patterns. People.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I'm sending desperate social media messages, which I'm sure i'm
the only one, to my favorite authors telling them to
hurry it along, and they don't respond.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I don't know why.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
But let me tell you about Stacia Stark's series. It's
called Kingdom of Lies. It has filled a hole in
my life that left me just flailing about after Sarah J.
Mass's books ran out. There's four in the series that
starts off with the Court So Cruel and lovely. It
is a epic world building adventure that involves humans and
(30:43):
hybrids and Fay and the crossing over and the love
stories between them. Plus they're also fighting in epic war
in order to allow hybrids to continue to exist in
this world. There's so many great characters. The male characters
are written just Chef's Kiss beautifully, and the female characters,
which is in my brand of Romanticy, they are strong, sassy,
(31:08):
like powerful in credible women.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Kingdom of Lies. If you're in an Akatar hole, this
will get you out of it.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Can I ask you a quick question, Claire? If you
are someone who has never dipped your toe in, but
you are going all right, maybe I got to start?
Where am I starting? What's the book I pick up tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Okay, there's two.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Because the thing that got me into Romanticy was our
colleague Nicole constantly walking around the office saying, akata I
had no idea what she was talking about. She's like,
you got to read it, you gotta read it, and
I was like, I don't even know what that is.
Someone finally handed me It's up short for a Court
of Thorns and Roses. Someone handed me that book and
I have not stopped reading Romanticy ever since. It sucked
(31:45):
me in and has done nearly everyone I know, but
the people who were holding out, like my mum and.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
My sister and me and Jesse and you and Jesse.
For them it was fourth wing.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
It was not so much fairy smart but dragon romance,
not with dragons, dragon adjacent. So the world building in
these stories are so incredible, Like the attention to detail
hell in creating these universes is like, they are my
two main recommendations Akata the original and you must go
(32:18):
to book two. If you read book one, you must.
You cannot leave it a book one, Okay, you cannot.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
We do need to do this, Jesse. You know, it's
interesting because when I meet people I don't know and
they find out I write books, women will say to
me what kind of books do you write? Which I
find a very difficult question to add, what is your
I don't know, I don't know, but I know the answer.
They want me to give fair ites, not me to
say romanticy, because they always want to tell me about
(32:48):
those books, like the amount of women I meet everywhere
all over Like who are just saying the books that
got me back into reading the books I can't stop reading.
I've read fifteen you know of them? Blah blah, It's
so interesting how much everybody loves them so well?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Do you know what I love too? Is like when
I meet new people.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
So my husband brought a couple around for dinner who
he works with now and will having a discussion and
you know where you're trying to find your common ground
with new people, And all it took for me was to.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Say to her, oh are you a reader? And like
that was it.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
The rest of the night we discussed all our favorite
romanticy books and we're our best friends now.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Like it.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Honestly, the community surrounding this is just it's next level.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It's so good. You got to get into.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
It, Okay, this Kingdom of lies? It recommending? Is it spicy? Yes,
of course.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I don't read anything other than I think probably like
a level three spice is my minimum. Now I've tried
level five not for me. Three and four yeah, okay.
Note there are some books that I have read that
I'm absolutely no thank you, but three four level Spice
is about my jam and I would put this at
about a level three and a half. So some of
(33:54):
those scenes are written in a way that like had
me thinking about it for quite a long time afterwards.
After the break, an argument about Beije, some wacky algorithms,
and some Saturday night fun.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's our best and Worst of the week.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
One unlimited out Loud acts. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
of the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week. And a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It's time for best and Worst. This is the part
of the show where we share a little more from
our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I've got a bone pick with you, Jesse Stevens. I
don't know if you're aware of this, Murphy, but Stevens
has been cheating on Mamma Mia out Loud. I had
heard rumors. Is this being confirmed? Yes, it's been confirmed.
She is presenting a show called Parenting out loud see
what they did. Then with one Amelia Lester, who is
also sometimes on.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Out loud, yes, she would know.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
And it's about all things parenting. It's not really about parenting,
it's about stories that parents would be interested in. And
because Jesse and Amelia are on it, it's very intelligent
and entertaining and I thoroughly enjoyed it. However, thank you.
I nearly had to pull over my car and call
you when I heard you defending all things beige when
it comes to baby clothes, nursery decor, interior design, furniture, bedding.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Hides, vomit, hides pooh like, hides urine.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Are you Kim Kardashian. This is the question because I
cannot wait for the beige days to go right. I
hate now that you walk into any I mean, I'm
not doing a lot of interior decorating, and don't get
me wrong, but if I am thinking about new bedding,
you whatever, and everything is beige and all the fancy
people's houses a beige that I see on the internet,
(35:49):
and it just makes me really sad, and I'm very
upset with you. Jesse. I thought more, I thought more
of you.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I thought you might like a bit of oatmeal, a
bit of flats, bit of just all the different shades
of beige. And I was talking about it in the show,
especially with kids. There's too many colors, there's too many sounds.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
There's nothing sadder than a really cute little kid in
a really tasteful oatmeal. Little kids are meant to be
in ridiculous clubs.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Have you seen the TikTok account said beige children? I
think it's called it.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Like a lady who points out sad beige children's out.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I'm going because, honestly, like I understand where you're coming from.
Because when I had my kids, which is a long
time ago now Matilda's fifteen, I was very anti the
blue pink thing, you know, because I'm that person, right,
So I was very anti the blue pink thing. So
I was all about neutrals, and I thought, like you,
I thought that might be a good idea. And then
I realized how sad it was to have a little
(36:45):
baby in a tasteful what might we call that paste?
We might call that color paste, and overall we might
call that one porridge. I don't know, but whatever it is,
it's sad. And then also as soon as Matilda exerted
her free will, she struck back with a whole lot
of nylon sequin flammable colors that I had no control
(37:08):
over anymore, and.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Then she went through her BINDI ow an, you're right,
it was a whole thing, and.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
It was a whole thing. But it's like when I
see and you know, I'm a big fan of Kimmy
the esteemed lawyer, Kim Kardashian, But when I see her
house and her children and they're all just in those colours,
even her graduation gowns and the hats, remember all in
those colors, I'm like, duh, dog, got a bit of emerald.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Green put on the But I agree. I agree that
some a Peter be living in prisons, and I have
feedback about that. I do think maybe we need it.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
To be fair. I think prisons are more of a
colorful environment.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Than If you want to find things to argue with
Jesse about, you can listen to that treacherous show she's
making an Amelia parenting out Loud. You'll find it in
a link in these show notes, or a new episode
will drop tomorrow and you can find it in the
This Glorious Mess feed My best, however, was Oh my god,
I've been dying to talk to you about this.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I need to know how you feel.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Go on, I also need you to explain it to
me a little bit, Jesse. So, one of my favorite obsessions,
as all out louders know, is Megan Duchess of Megan.
I love her not at all things Megan. She likes baige,
she never wears color. She's all neutrals and black, as
she was in this particular video. So as a little treat,
(38:22):
late last week, Megan dropped a video for I think
it was Lily Bett's birthday, the controversially named Lily Bet,
their youngest child. It was her birthday and Megan decided
to give us all a gift, which was a video
from inside the delivery suite where she and Prince Harry
are dancing to some inexplicably terrible song that's supposed to
(38:43):
bring on labor. Jesse, what was she doing?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Okay, how did you miss this? This is a trend
at around the time Lillabet was born where everyone who
was pregnant Laura Byrne did it. A bunch of people
on the internet would dance to that song heavily pregnant
like Steph CLEAs Smith would have done it. They danced
sexy isn't the word.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
They're dropping it low to get the baby out right.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
That's exactly it. That is exactly so.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
There's a bit of like twerking kind of going on
and lots of dancing, and the idea is to bring
on labor. Yes, and in this video, if you haven't
seen it out louders, please do yourself a favor because
Meg's is really good. So clearly she's she's showing off
some really good dancing rhythms, even in forty two weeks
or whatever. She was Harry not so much. Harry's moves
(39:28):
not so.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Is that the most delightful part of that video was
like watching him into the frame and you're like, you
are so embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
This is so cute and he's giving it this and
it's like, oh my god, did you sit down? Fresh
princes have won to see those sit down.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I thought it was fun.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I loved it. I loved it, And what I also
loved is because it was Megan. Then of course the
conspiracy started. People are like, her bump's not real, her
bump looks funny. She clearly had like monitors, tens, machines,
whatever on under her black dress, which is fine, but
that was some highlight of my week. I might have
watched that video fifty times over that cold weekend.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
I like the idea that all along they were creating content.
I just like that, and then they're drip feeding it.
It's like, I want lockdown style tiktoks, some more dancers
like just that they were doing that in I thought,
imagine if you're a nurse and you walked in and
just doing this weird.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Git but don't get in frame, don't get him frame.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
They're just like us. My worst I talked about a
lot this week, but definitely project ending that was the
end of an era and I'm just sad I wouldn't
get to see my friends as much anymore. My best
though was I had a voucher from my mum for
Christmas that we hadn't spent yet, and we booked an
advance to this restaurant which is at the Opera House
called Midden and my Dd So it is Australian indigenous
(40:47):
ingredients and it is literally at the Opera House. It
was Lucra and I Claren Rory, which I think since
the girls were born. The four of us without the
girls have spent like, you know, that's maybe our second dinner.
So it's so special when the four of us can
spend time us really interesting tastes. So there was an
amazing egg plant. We kangaroo. There was emu.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Are you an adventurous eater in general?
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I'm not. I'm not.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
And so the fact that I loved it. Look, there
were some great roast potatoes. It's a great helmus. They
are beat they exactly beige. And the dam part the bread.
Because when we did a bunch of Northern Territory tourism
stuff a few years ago, we had this tour guide
who showed us about the berries and all the different tastes.
And there are jokes sometimes about how Australia doesn't have
(41:37):
a cuisine. Yeah, we've got the longest you know, running
population ever in Australia, forty thousand years. And the food
is so interesting and so nutritious and so yummy. And
to actually sit there and eat it and celebrate all
of those flavors.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Was so much and so sustainable and yes, seasonal and brilliant.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I love that exactly fun of kangaroo.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
This was just a little bit too fu for me.
But Claara and Luca had some crocodile.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I love crocodile. You can get it a pizza at
the Australian the Pub.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
It's delicious, really Okay, Claire, what was your worst?
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I need you all to steal yourselves for a minute,
because I'm about to play you something and it is
not good.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
So I now work on another podcast called Well, where
we are busting some myths about women's health. Now, unfortunately,
part of that means I need to find out what
the misinformation is that women are being fed about their bodies. Yes,
and what that has done has tragically interrupted my social
media algorithm. So I now get served not only really
(42:41):
great videos about women's health, but really really awful ones too.
And I don't mean misinformation, I mean corners of the
Internet I never thought.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I would tread.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Oh, for example, there is a certain group of men
in the world who are a little bit too obsessed
with women's menstrual cycles. Okay, if you are easily grossed out,
please just I don't know, look away for a second.
This won't take long. It's a lot, Okay, have a
(43:13):
listen to this.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
Did my gooey little kitten leave her menstrul cup out
for daddy.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
You're such a good girl, Thank you, kitten.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Oh, it's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
It tastes like salty milk, and coins salty milk.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
It is exact exactly what you think. Does happened? Just happened?
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Oh my goodness. And that's not the kind of stuff
that's in your fairy smart that's no, no bridge too
far for you, okay. I will also point out another
woman who makes quote unquote Koda muffins Oh, which also
involve her menstrel cup being poured into the batter of
her muffins, which she claims is her husband's favorite.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Wow, it must be full of goodness, right, I guess
it's full of goodness, that's I mean, yes.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
But also body, the body can just get rid of things.
Sometimes it just wants to get rid of it, and
we just say bye bye and we do a foe.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
We don't put it back in.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
No, we don't have to put it back in.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
And I'm if we'll.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Reach a stage now how we used to will be
grossed out by breast milk, Like, will.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
We get to a point where where. I'm not sure
we will.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
But I'm just wearing it around. They make breast milk
like necklaces. Maybe we'll have a beautiful menstrual ring or something.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I'm really maybe into this. Your algorithm sounds terrified.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
It is messed up.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
So on that note, let's move into the best of
my week. As I leave you to be forever traumatized
by that bit of audio, Can I give a shout
out to the Arctic freeze we are currently explained in Australia.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Oh my god, I love cold weather so much.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
I live in the wrong country obviously, or the right country,
depending on who you speak to, because there's lots of
people who now live in Australia who used to live
in the Northern Hemisphere who have realized how ill equipped
Australian homes are winter. Oh yes, and they are like
we thought we'd come to Australia and be warm. I'm sorry, no,
that's not the case. We don't have enough insulation or
central heating to deal with that. You will need to
wear your north face vest inside. But I am a
(45:11):
cold lover. I love nothing more than wooly jumpers, puffy jackets,
hot water bottles. I have moved into our new house.
We have a wood fire and it is like that,
Oh my god, It's the most calming thing in the
world to just sit like. I don't even turn the
TV on. I literally just stare at the fire in
our laund room for hours.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I couldn't be more. I can't stand the cold. I
hate it.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
I hate it.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
I grew up in it like it's normal for me,
but I can't. I'm like, please, I just like the
temperature to be always, like you're saying about saunas. I
just like to get out of bed and not have
to think about whether it's hot or cold.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Yeah, just right.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
But do you not like putting on like gloves and
a scarf and a.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Beanie and walking out on like a really crisp morning
with like a really hot mug of tea, Like, oh delightful.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
We'll leave that with you. No, no, I I mean
I did do that this weekend. I was checking on
the plants with like twenty five layers on, but I
wasn't having a good time.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
That sounds like my ideal Sunday morning.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
That is all we have time for, my friends. Thank
you for being with us on another week through Mama
Mia out loud, we appreciate you. We also appreciate our
incredible team, so Jesse and Claire read them out.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer is
Leah Porgies.
Speaker 4 (46:29):
And video producer Josh Green. And our junior content producers
are Coco and Tessa.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Our studios. If you are watching us or if you
have seen us on socials, you'll know how beautiful they
are are styled with furniture from Fenton and Fenton and
you can find out more about that at Fenton Andfenton
dot com dot au.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Goodbye, Ye and out loud. As If you want another
little treat something to listen to, we thought we'd leave
you with a little bit of a conversation we had
on our subscriber episode yesterday. It was a really interesting one. Holly,
em and I unpacked the thirty six questions that you
need to ask to fall in love, and what we
did is we did some of them and you will
find out whether or not we are fell in love
(47:07):
by the end. A link as always be in the
show notes. Shout out to any Mum and me a
subscribers listening. If you love the show and you want
to support us, subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very
best way to do so. There's a link in the
episode description
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.