April 25, 2025 • 39 mins
When was the last time you cried in front of someone else? Or shared a deep conversation that left you feeling fulfilled? Well friends, we've found a magical list of questions that might be the shortcut to connection. We unpack the secrets of supercommunicators.
Plus - Holly's favourite lip products, a book Jessie needs everyone to read, and an article about the most wild new cosmetic procedure we've heard yet... it's our recommendations.
And, our bests and worsts including a camping Nicole, a family sick-fest, and some feedback for Nana.
Support independent women's media
Get your tickets to the Mamamia Out Loud Live 2025 All or Nothing Tour Presented By Nivea Cellular
Get your merch for Mamamia Out Loud
What To Listen To Next:
- Listen to our latest episode: Sex Toys, Borrowing Money & A Dad's Group Chat Faux Pas
- Listen: The Influencer Who's Changed Too Much & Liz Hurley's Hard Launch
- Listen: Katy Perry, Gayle King & THAT Blue Origin Space Flight
- Listen: Another Little Treat: The Tyranny Of Looking Like You Haven't Tried
- Listen: A Little Treat: This Special Live Show Recording Spilt 10 Years of Tea
- Listen: The Exact Science To Keep You Enjoying Your Job
- Listen: A Very 2025 Diss Track. No Notes.
- Listen: Clare Stephens - We Have Questions
- Listen: A Reality TV Showdown & Coachella's Three Levels Of Cool
- Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts
Sign up to the Mamamia Out Loud Newsletter for all our recommendations and behind-the-scenes content in one place.
Recommendations:
Jessie wants you to read The Safekeep Novel by Yael van der Wouden
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
When you're looking at mastering effective communication, there are three
different fundamental types of conversations that occur in every interaction,
right and the biggest chance of miscommunication is when one
person thinks they're having one type of conversation and someone
else thinks they're having another. As I was prepping for
the show and reading about this, I was having a
(00:41):
text argument with someone. It was a man, and he
thought we were having a.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Practical, practical conversation and emotional conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And then I realized in the course of the conversation
that I was having an emotional conversation about how I feel.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud and
to our Friday show, where you know, we don't do news.
We just do talking. Nothing from the outside is breaking
into our bubble. Today is also a public holiday, of course,
it's an Zac Day, but we thought we would do
an episode for you anyway, because you might have been
up since really early at the dawn service. You might
be baking anzac Vicki's. You might just be going to
(01:21):
the beach, but yeah, what you deserved them.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
You might have the day off. There are some hard
working out ladders who are working today a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But anyway, we digress.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm Holly wayIn right, I'm Mere Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And on today's show, when was the last time you
cried in front of someone else? And would you tell
a complete stranger the answer to that question? Welcome to
the list of magic questions, which are shortcuts to connection,
plus one of the twenty five lip products in my handbag,
a book and an article about a cosmetic procedure you've
likely never heard of, its recommendations, and our best and worst,
(01:57):
which include camping, nicoles, a family sick fest, and Nana singing.
But first, Mere Friedman, in.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Case you missed it, being polite to your chat GPT
bot could be doing some damage to the world. This
is confusing news for everyone who uses phrases like please
and thank you when they talk to an AI tool
like chat GPT. I do I always say please.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Me too, I'm told to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I don't really say thank you. But what it does
is that it increases the amount of energy required to
process whatever you've asked the chatbot to do. That's what
Sam Altman, who is the boss of Open Ai, has
said this week when someone asked him about the electricity
that powers AI and all the energy required, and he
said that politeness increases costs for his company by tens
(02:43):
of millions of dollars per year. Now, for those not
yet using AI, you can do all sorts of things
for free, so it doesn't cost you directly to say
please and thank you in case you're wondering, and it
doesn't change the accuracy or the quality of the results
that you get. It just means that the computer has
to think a bit harder before answering you.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So just about extra words or is it about those words?
In particular?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It's about extra words and phrases, and it has to
be polite back to you. Now, there are two reasons
why people tend to use thank you and please if
they do. The first is ethically because it's a robot,
but maybe we don't want to be mean to the robots.
And the second is just in case the robots take over,
we want to, you know, fitting good with them.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Reason I would say is that it is about setting
a precedent if you get into the habit of barking orders,
which I have found with my Siri, with my like
all of the things that I tell to do things.
And I think, firstly, I don't want my daughter just
hearing me yell orders at things all the time. And secondly,
if I speak to something that is serving me like that, yeah,
(03:50):
then how long until it bleeds into the workplace where
you know your boss is speaking to the assistant with
the same level of.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Oh, you talk to someone in the service industry.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Exactly, real human without a please and think.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But then I was also told, and maybe this isn't true,
but when we have had a training and things is
that if you're polite to it, it will be polite
to you, which is the same aunt in the world,
right karma. You put out what you want to get back,
and so I don't want my robot to shout at
me no.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But it takes more energy, so it uses up more
energy and the cost of energy. Obviously, the energy required
to process all of the AI queries is powered by electricity, which.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
And Holly, you're onto something, because there actually was a
study that found they had people all across the world
because manners are very different in different countries, there are
different versions of please and thank you, and they found
that you got thirty percent worse results without manners. So
you're on chat GPT whatever it is. They will omit information.
Sometimes there are errors, like apparently you get better results
(04:52):
if you speak.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
That's finally what chat GPT told me. I did some
research this morning and it said it will not affect
the quality. It does talk back to you. However, you
talk to it so like I've trained mine that it'll
just be I'll be like, thanks, that's an awesome answer.
Could you try doing it with a little bit more
brevity or in bullet points, and then it'll go thanks
(05:16):
so much for your detailed feedback. That's amazing, And it's like,
are you feel cool? Like it's I think so much
of what people are scared about with AI is that
it's so dehumanized, and it is because you are actually
talking to people and things that don't exist. But by
making it as human as possible, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So res Altman suggesting that we should stop saying please
and thank you, because he's like, if you're worried about
the environmental impacts of AI, then the way to deal
with it is short and to the point.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Not really, he was more tongue in cheek. It's costing
us a lot of money more, but it's worth it
if it means that the world is being populated by
better manners. I will bear that cost.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
This is the most Silicon Valley, just telling us that
it's less efficient to be polite. That's where Silicon Valley
leads us.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I like MEA's theory that we're playing the long game
and we have to be nice to our future over lords.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Like they're keeping a list somewhere.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
They'd be like me is the one who.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Always says that thanks, great job. She complimented my outfit.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
How do I become a super communicator? You know those
people who can talk to just about anyone about anything,
and not just small talk. They find themselves in deep,
interesting conversations with strangers. Apparently there is a name for
these people, and they are super communicators, and any of
us can become one with the right training. A new
(06:39):
podcast by Charles Dowig called super Communicators explores the science
of connection and offers very practical advice on how to
have more interesting and fulfilling conversations. Here's a little bit
of that podcast.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
The next time you're on an airplane or on a bus,
or you're at a party, or you're making small talk
with someone, turn to them and ask them a deep question.
And you might think to yourself, this is going to
be weird, it's going to be really awkward. But I
think what you'll find is that if you ask a
question with genuine curiosity, the other person is delighted to
(07:12):
answer it, and then you should ask another question and
share something about yourself and then eventually ask them, so,
just out of curiosity, when's the last time you cried
in front of another person.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Central to this is something called magical questions. They have
been studied and determined by psychologists to increase intimacy between
two people. And at the most basic level, it means
that you meet someone right and you just have a
chat and they go, I'm a teacher.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Now.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The logical next question for a lot of people would
be what school, what year, what long have you been
how long have you been a teacher? Exactly? And we
know that they're like more close questions, and the advice
here is that your next question should be why what
made you go into teaching?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I would feel like that was had some judgement, me too,
why a teacher?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yes? Why would you ever? Because I wanted to be
What why questions prompt people to talk about their values, beliefs,
or experiences, which brings us to the thirty six questions
that lead to love? Do you to remember this essay?
It was published who just over ten years ago. It
was modern Love Essay originally, and then the New York
Times published all the questions And it came originally from
(08:19):
a study called the fast Friends Procedure, which doesn't sound
very sexy, but a woman named Mandy len Catron was
interested in this research and she found herself on a
date with a man that she was interested in, and
they were talking about whether you can fall in love
with anyone and relationships and connection, and she said, well,
there's this study. Let's go through these thirty six questions.
And she couldn't believe how she felt at the end
(08:41):
of it, so she pens this modern Love essay, which
then goes viral. Ten years have passed, they're still together,
they're getting married, she's interviewed on this podcast. The key
to those questions are that they're not about politics, they're
not about the TV show you're watching. They are about
mutual and progressive self disclosure. They're not about the facts
of our lives, but how we feel about them. So
(09:02):
there are questions like do you have a secret hunch
about how you will die? If you could wake up
tomorrow having gained any one quality or ability, what would
it be? Or how do you feel about your relationship
with your mother? Holly? In a way, this seems obvious,
right right?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Question on the plane?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Why questions? Open ended? Why are we so reluctant to
ask why questions?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Because they're no scense. It's so funny because I actually
I love this because small talk is exhausting, right, and
I hate it, and I'd much rather have a proper
conversation with somebody in a social situation. But if somebody
turned round to me on an airplane and said to me,
how do you really feel about your relationship with your mother?
(09:47):
I would probably push them out of the door.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Well, that's why the way that it's designed, these thirty
six questions is progressive exactly. So it starts don't start back.
One of the early ones is dinner party, alive or dead?
Who comes like something? That's a bit of a game.
And then as it goes on you kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Because once you start really telling the truth, because small
talk is basically like armor for us all to wear,
right where we can all rob up near each other
in social situations, but we're not giving any vulnerability and
no one has to give any back. We're just all
just there like smiling and like clinking eyeglasses whatever. And
as soon as you start actually telling the truth about things,
you feel very vulnerable because I don't know you, I
(10:26):
don't trust you, right, so you have to build a
level of trust for me to tell you that I
have been in work situations not at MoMA MIA, but
over the years of my working life where you know,
you'll go to like management training and the first thing
is we're going to play an ice breaker game and
they'll ask a question, a really personal question, tell us
a secret about something you did you're ashamed of, and
I'm like, I will be making up the answer to
(10:48):
that question.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Because you have to earn this y the right to
have somebody's vulnerability, And interviewers know this. Right when you're
interviewing someone, you have to get there quite quickly, but
at least you're already engaged in a contract, which is
like I'm going to ask you things that I wouldn't
ask you if I make you on a plane. M
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I think as well, central to that is the mutual
self disclosure. So I think you would get a totally
different result if we sat down and I said, may Or,
I'm going to ask you thirty six questions in a row,
and then I went, it would be a totally interview.
Well that's an interview rather than having two people go
all right, we're entering into a contract where we're going
to maybe share things we would not ordinarily.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
It's so funny when you sent me this podcast to
listen to, because Jason, my husband, has always described me
as a super communicator, and I'd never heard the expression
other than him using it to describe me. I mean,
I kind of understood what he meant. Obviously, he's someone
who doesn't like talking very much. He's deeply introverted, and
I wouldn't say that I'm extroverted. But this whole thing,
(11:48):
I kept waiting for the aha moment in it, but
it is all. It just describes me. And I don't
say that to big note myself because it's often makes
people uncomfortable, like I seem to have missed the part
where you learn how to do small talk. And that's
why No Filter suited me for so long as a podcast,
because it gave me permission to do this, which is
(12:13):
my natural default mechanism. So we were away on holidays
last week and I met someone in the bar. They
were sitting with a mutual friend, and I started talking
to her, and I won't disclose what we spoke about,
but within about two or three questions, we were just
talking about something in her life that was very, very deep.
(12:35):
And sometimes I just go, how did I get here?
Like I actually can't even deconstruct so the way I'm
able to do that, And I've never met anyone who
objects to it, like people are usually very disarmed by it.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I think that's what they're trying to say in this podcast,
but also that there are some people where this does
come naturally, and for those of us who maybe it
doesn't come as naturally and we're a little bit more
shy or reticent to open up a conversation, sometimes we
look at people like you and go, what are the
mechanics behind that? How do yousel?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Closure is important in the early reviews for No Filter,
people would always say, Oh, she talks too much about
herself about me, And that's very deliberate because the way
you get someone to trust you and the way you
make them feel like it's more of a conversation and
less of an interrogation is by being vulnerable first. And
so I would do that, and what we learned is
(13:31):
to actually just cut out my bits because no one
needs to hear my stories. But it works very well.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So it also can be a good deflection though, because
if I'm in a small talk situation and I was
just away on a trip where every day I had
to sit next to, like not even every day, every
meal time set next people I didn't know, I don't
really want to talk about myself in those situations. So
getting other people to talk about themselves is the key,
which is a little unfair and a little unbalanced, but
people love talking about themselves. Once you get them going
(14:01):
on something, they're passionate.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, for me, it's an energy conserving tool as well.
In a social situation, it's an energy conserving tool because
most people really do like talking about themselves. You're life hole,
and it means that I can deflect. I once went
to dinner with two women who are a couple, and
I was quite friends with them, and a little way
in they'd obviously been talking about me, because they went, no,
that's enough questions for us. We want to ask you
(14:24):
how you're going.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I always hate that.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, when I'm like, oh, okay, well, clearly I've gone
into interviewer mode, which I do when I'm tired or
you know, feeling like talking.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
The second episode had a bunch of stuff about nonverbal communication,
which you know we talked about a lot, but it
was it was really specific. So apparently like confidence can
be read by the distance between your ear lobes and
your shoulders. That was a big one. What do you
mean so posture? That's why posture is seen as really important,
Like when someone stands up straight like they can often
(15:00):
make you feel a lot more at ease, that sort
of thing. The second thing was hands on the table,
so they said that if you're in a business meeting,
or if you're in a word scenario, let's say you're
running a meeting, people might walk out and go, I
don't know, I just got a weird vibe. I just
wasn't feeling it, and it'll be some unconscious thing that
they can't even name. But if you had your hands
under the table, they don't have the same level of trust.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Bloody, language is really important, so you should never cross
your arms, always, never have your energy blocked. You will
instinctively do that as a way to sort of protect
yourself without even realizing it. The ideal thing is for
someone to show the inside of their wrists. If you
can find a way to show the inside of your
wrists and your palms, that's very disarmy.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Like dong rolling on their back.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Correct. And the other way to really show someone that
you're listening is to tilt your head a dog. Yeah,
like a dog. You just go like that and raise
your eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The raising eyebrows it's called an eyebrow flash. You're not
meant to do it too often, but it says like
I'm interested in compelled by what you're saying. But I
was thinking about the impact of injectibles, and our face
is not moving like maybe they once if you can't
actually move your eyebrows or even like what do they
(16:14):
call it when you're like replicating or mirroring the expressions
of the person you're talking to.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, you know, as part of this book Charles Doig
is really interesting, and he said, when you're looking at
mastering effective communication, there are three different fundamental types of
conversations that occur in every interaction, right, And the biggest
chance of miscommunication is when one person thinks they're having
one type of conversation and someone else thinks they're having another.
(16:40):
So the three types of practical conversations, which is, you know,
decision making or problem solving. The second one is emotional conversations,
how do we feel about feelings, empathy? And the third
one is social conversations, and that's exploring identity, relationships and
social roles. And it's so funny that as I was
prepping for the show and reading about this, I was
having a text argument with someone and they thought it
(17:05):
was a man could have been my husband, and he
thought we were having.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
A practical, a practical conversation, an emotional conversation, and he was.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Very confused by the enormity of my responses to something
that seemed really practical. And then I realized in the
course of the conversation that I was having an emotional
conversation about how I feel. And I think that happens
a lot. I know it happens a lot with me.
When I'm talking to men, including my sons, I'm always
having an emotional conversation, but they, in most cases think
(17:35):
that they're having a practical conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So when was the last time he cried in front
of someone else? Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
The last time I cried in front of someone else
was in in public cry. I cried in public, which
is always the worst. You know, things the wheels are
falling off. Oh yeah, when I was at a medical
center because Luna had hurt herself and she would not
stop crying, and I just broke down and the woman
at reception was so so lovely. Luca walked in, he'd
(18:02):
been at work and came to get us. He went
to Luna, and then the woman at reception said, I
think your wife needs a cuddle.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Oh, And then that made me cry more, and I
just I got a mask because I went maybe if
I wear the mask high enough, no one will see
the tears under the mask.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
But that was not my finest moment. When was the
last time you cried?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I have tried very hard to never cry in front
of other people, even Brent, I hate it. I like
to cry by myself. That's my preferred crying situation. But
I did cry, yeah, in front of Brent. He's probably
the only person who sees me cry very much. And
it was one of those frustrated It was about tax.
Of course, Tax makes me cry, just like I feel
(18:45):
so overwhelmed by all this and why aren't you helping
me with it? And he's like, I can't. It was
one of those conversations which was not Again, he probably
thought he was having a practical conversation. I thought we
were going to see the bookkeeper and I'm like.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
But you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I'm sorry overwhelmed and.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Tax is never not emotional.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Maya.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I went through a long period of crying a lot,
including at work when I was really overwhelmed, really frustrated,
which is there's just nothing worse than crying in a
work situation because women will often cry in those situations
because they're frustrated or they're frustrated with themselves or whatever
it is. And that was the case with me. I
was just annoyed at myself. But that was a long
(19:26):
time ago. I haven't cried at work for ages, not
for years, but it would have been with Jason he's
usually the only one that sees me cry. And again,
not as much like when I was going through perimenopause,
I reckon I cried every day. I was so easy
to cry, not always in front of people, often in
front of people, and to the point where I just
(19:47):
felt like I had no control. And there've been other
times when when I was taking you know, I still do,
but at the start of taking antimsa iity medication, I
sort of didn't cry for about five or six years
full stop. But there's something that's just so vulnerable in
crying in front of other people.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You know. The thing that I love the most about
this is that with talk and the election and politics
and vision and all that kind of stuff, the idea
that there are so many other things to talk about, yeah,
and so many other things that are actually connective to
you that we ignore that we can find in other people,
and that there's a lot of whether it's surface or not,
(20:24):
but there are ways to have enriching and meaningful conversations
with literally anyone.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Can I ask you if our out loud as are
going to a long weeken barbecue, what do you reckon?
Are three of these magic questions that aren't necessarily like
the really deep show me all your insides, Yeah, but
are really good ones from the list for that kind
of situation.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
This one, and I remember reading something about it. Someone
clever has said it before, which is some version of
what are you most passionate about? What are you passionate about?
What are you interested in at the moment? Something like that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I know Elizabeth Gilbert, that's what she asked, because you
can imagine meeting someone like that, they're constantly people wanting
to talk to them. And it was a very good
deflecting conversation. She said, what are you excited about right now?
I thought that was great because in terms of passionate,
that can almost be a bit of pressure, like, oh god, I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
What are you excited about?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
What are you excited about right now? And immediately I
could tell her. I told her about this book that
I was, you know, in the middle of writing, and
she ended up endorsing that book. It was such a
clever question because I could tell she didn't want to talk,
but it was a generous question, and you know, I
thought it was really it was a good one, what
are you excited about right now? Also, I just always
(21:37):
ask what should I watch next?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, that's good small talk if you're.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Reaching for something. I know that small talk. It's not
a particularly deep question, but it can. The key I
think is follow up questions. When you're talking to someone,
you've just got to listen to what they're saying and
look for the openings in what they're saying. That are
the tangents out loud.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
As in a moment. It's stuff to read and stuff
to smear on your mouth. Come back for our recommendations, vibes, ideas, atmosphere,
something usual file.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
This is my best recommendation. Good.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Look, it's Friday, so of course you want to help
me set up your weekend. Who wants to go first?
You two have been away, You've probably got someone. Yes.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I actually I've brilliant one.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I have such a good one.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I have a book and I had heard so many
people recommend this book. But it is historical fiction, and
I thought it sounded like hard work, and I was like,
I want to relax. It just delivered everything that I
possibly wanted, and every review is spot on. It is
a book called The Safe Keep by yah Elle vander Odin.
It was nominated, I think it was long listed for
the Booker Prize this year. Like it is very, very buzzy,
(22:45):
but it's about a woman named Isabelle who lives in
this house in the Netherlands post World War Two, so
it's nineteen sixty one. Her brother's girlfriend comes and stays
with her for a summer, and it's about the relationship
that evolves between the two of them. It's sexy, it's
a sexy book, but there's also a fascinating twist that
(23:06):
complicates the whole thing. It is stunningly written, and it's
like quite poetic, but also really insightful about what Europe
looked like in the decades after World War Two. I
imagined that, and I've studied World War Two. I didn't
realize that what country you went back to, whether you
went back to if you were a Jewish person who
(23:29):
ended up in the camps in World War Two, I
thought that countries looked after you, that Sweden or France
or the Netherlands looked after you very different depending on
where you went back to. And this is about what
was lost and what's yours and fascinating, fascinating. So it's
called The Safe Keep. You must read it.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I'm going to jump in because I've got a silly one,
whereas I think is a smart too, because it's just
a lipstick, you know how, maybe.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Not all from lipsticks are very important.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
We were recently recording our Apple Show. Do you remember
we were before our Apple Show recently? Emilia Lester was
there and she just said to me, Holly showed me
all the lip products in your bag.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
You know how much at open questions, Flia is such
she should write the thirty six questions for hollywaen I
fall in love with you and the first question is
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Maybe why shee I fell in love so fast as friends.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Because I do always have twenty five lip products in
my bag at any one time. And today or yesterday,
I was clearing out my bag and I realized the
most used because it's the one I have to replace
the most often. And I was like, I should just
recommend that it's a bit basic, but hey, and it is.
Nas it's like a lip bar, it's a bag, it's
(24:42):
a barm so it's like shiny shear.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Okay, it's sheer, but it's pigmented.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's pigmented, but just a little bit. But the good
thing about it is because it's called afterglow Right. The
shade I was called Dolceavida and it's forty six dollars,
which is a lot of money. But the thing that
is great about it and I have used many times,
is because it's so popular at Dubecity. Soh m COD
do a version very similar, even in the same square
thing because the thing I love about the square thing
it's easy to find in my bag with all the
(25:08):
other lip products.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And also don't pull out a tampon misteak, you.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Just reach for the square one. Mco Dupe one is
eleven bucks and they've got the same shade, what's very
similar shade.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I've used that dole. They're brilliant and they're really good
if you don't want to look like you've got a
full on lipy, like if you want something to.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Like it, it's a little bit done but not color yeap.
And the other thing is if you don't have like
just a lip balm and your lips are feeling dry,
it's like that in between and then in between the
MC and the nas Mecha Dooo one too. It's about
thirty bucks, and so they're like a lip balm with
a bit of tint that I realize I use down
to the absolute stop all the.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
You know what, I'm just going to throw in an
extra one. This is a product that I use every
single day that I just every now and then go,
this is a great products. Lana Lips Lips with a
little bit of pigment. Single day I put that on
my lip and it just I never get chapped and
it's just so good love.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Okay, maya take this away.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I always get really excited about recommending a book or
a TV show, and then I realized that my record
are just whatever you guys have recommended. But like a
month later, so I've had to dig deep and I
actually I'm going to recommend an article I read on
Muma Mia about leg lengthening surgery. This is a bit
of a personal obsession of mine, not because I want
to have it done, but just because I've always been
(26:26):
fascinated by it and I didn't know that it was
happening in Australia and I didn't know that women were
getting it.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Wait, so it's an elective. Women in Australia can choose
to get their legs lengthened taller.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
So it's a surgery that was originally I guess created
or pioneered for people who had defects in their legs
or needed to be taller for you know, I guess
health reasons, or had made like.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
A discrepancy and they're left in their right because that
can cause heaps.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Of issues, exactly right. And so now in the same
way that a lot of things that are now used
esthetically were originally used for medical reasons, so it is
with leg lengthening surgery. So what happens is they basically
break your legs. They break both of your legs, They
put them in cages, and then there are like magnets
in the bone and they keep stretching them like by
(27:16):
a millimeter.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Every stay because you would need something the bone.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So what it does is that it's like your bone
thinks I learned this in the article. Your bone thinks
it's been fractured, so it rushes to repair it, and
it like builds new bone around so it's taller. You
can get a few centimeters. It's really disturbing just where
so in America a lot of men are doing it.
You know, short kings. Not everybody can marry a cock edman.
(27:45):
Some short kings just want to be taller, and so
a lot of men used to get it. I read
a really long piece in GQ about it many years ago,
but now it's not a common procedure. It's very controversial
among orthopedic surgeons because it's correct purely elective. I mean,
the recovery and the pain and all of those things
is immense. It's very expensive. You don't get anything back
(28:09):
on Medicare, which is actually good to know because if
that's where our Medicare dollars were going, it would be
a problem. But it's just a fascinating article. We'll put
a link to it in the show notes after the
break the camping, Nicole family, holiday sickness, and some feedback
for Nana. It is our best and Worst of the week.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Want unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers. Follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
It's time for best and Worst, the peaks the troughs
of our lives. Holly, you go first, what's your worst
of the week?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So regular outlouders well know, and as you certainly do
that every Easter I go camping with my original Mothers group,
so much so that I have written a book inspired by.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
That weekend I went. It's good weather for Hollies camp.
It was because sometimes it's miserable.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Oh Easter weekend was glorious. So it's my best and
my worst. But the worst was the fact that it's
making an appearance of my worst is actually sparked by
an out louder's post this week, which made me realize
a cold hard truth about myself. Right, so, an out
louder called Rose May Foster posted in the out Louder's
Facebook gred, this was so good that she is in
(29:33):
the coal and she is going camping for the first
time with a group of families, just like I do.
Just so any out louders who aren't familiar with our
law no nicoles. It was a term coined by the
great Australian comedian Geraldine Hickey, but it's the name for
a woman in a friendship group who always does the organizing.
She's the one who books the table and knows sends
(29:53):
around the menu and all that. In the Easter context,
our out louder is in a coal and so she said.
The weeks before, she was sending messages to the group
being like, should we group by this? Should we group
by that? And everyone was like, don't worry about it,
We're chill, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
She right.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Then it comes to have we got enough eggs? She
means Easter eggs? Yes, is the collective reply. But a
nicole knows to dig deeper, says Rose. Person one has
big eggs, Person two has small eggs. Person three has
little kinder bunnies. Yes, there's enough chocolate to feed all
the kids, but do they all have the same or
will there be tears? Am I the only one who
thinks that the kids will crack it if the bunny
(30:29):
brings visibly different things for different kids. Don't even get
me started on the baskets and the ears. And one
of the girls is like, oh, that's awesome. We should
have just let you organize it, and she's.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Like, I'm losing my mind.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
She was on your trip. She has could have been
my friend.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I haven't had to buy Easter eggs for children for
some time now, and I've been alarmed to see these
new trend of Easter baskets all over social media, and
people making Easter baskets almost like a Christmas stocking filled
with presents.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, sometimes we don't do any of that. But what
this post made me realize is I am always the
person who goes, don't worry about it, right, I'm always
the person We've got loads of chocolate, don't even worry
about it. I haven't even thought about it. And then
I get there and go, oh, that's right. This nicole
hates me, like, not me personally, but all I represent
(31:19):
in the world, which is like she'll be long had
looking them whole of mirrors. I have friends like this
who will be the one who when your child is
melting down because indeed, you only got them a shitty
little kinder surprise and someone else got a giant six
foot bunny has thought of that and has brought a spare.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Also, you could use it as an opportunity to teach resilience.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Well you could, And that's the way I look at it.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Me capitalism.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
If my kid doesn't get the Easter egg of their dreams,
deal with its sister anyway. So my worst realization that
I am indeed a terrible friend in and the bane
of all nicholes everywhere. But my best was the Easter
camping because although I always moan about it, and we
did indeed end up, I moan about the labor involved.
(32:00):
We did end up sleeping on the floor because the
blow up mattress collapsed. And the kids who are teenagers
definitely are getting naughtier as they like in a different
way than they were when they were little, and so
there's more vigilance required in that regard, and sometimes there's
where they were shoes and all that. It is actually
definitely one of my favorite times of the year because
these women that I go on this trip with and
(32:21):
their partners, they are funny and we have known each
other a long time, and watching the way the kids
interact with each other is so entertained.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
How many kids are they now?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
There would be like fifteen kids, oh wow, maybe more.
And the thing is is, you know that girls grow first,
So the last few years the girls have been quite
grown up and the boys haven't. And then this year
all the boys are like six foot and they've.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
All got shoulders, like, oh wow, we're actually camping. We
just a whole lot of people, but we still had
to do an egg hunt, they still had to be
even though they were like, we didn't need ag hunt.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Then on Easter Sunder, they were all.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Like, where where's the egg hut?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
And because Brent had gone off camping first without me
because I was doing something else, and I met him there,
obviously he hadn't remembered any of the eggs, so I
had to do an early morning supermarket Easter bunny swoop
on Sunday. Anyway, it was the best of times, the
worst of times, and I loved it, and that was
my used to camp.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
My worst was we went on holiday last week with
the in laws with.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Two together ye.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Generations, that's what we were. It was delightful. But the
day that we actually got there, Luna got sick, right,
so she was sick, and then I think she managed
to make everyone sick. There was tonsladis going around And
I said, nearly every day, I said, I've actually never
felt so well.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
You said that, I know, well.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I wanted to touch wood, I wanted to go spit
on the ground.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
YEP, I said, I am feeling because you know, you
keep checking in, you go nap. Never felt better. I'm
feeling really healthy. My throat is top notch.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
And she needed to say this a lot because in
the past she's been patient zero that has infected the
wide effect.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
And I needed everyone to know that I wasn't patient zero.
Luna was taken up with her anyway. I keep going
feeling great, looking great, just like I'm active lively. She said,
never ever better, You ever felt better. And then on
the Monday night, I went to bed, slept like a
dream because I was feeling so well, and then at
(34:20):
one am woke up and went, oh, And that's when
the vomiting started. And for about nine hours I think
on the hour, got up through up, oh, and it
was like the first one, I went, maybe this is
a one off. And then when the second one happened,
I went, this is not a one off. And it
just kept going. And what I forgot about food poisoning
(34:40):
and I don't know what I ate, which is so annoying,
and no one else got sick, so no idea what
it was. But once the throwing up stopped, I felt
like shit for days, like the dehydration and your whole
body sore and you're tired, appetite wasn't great. Ended up
having to go to the doctor because I was like,
I still feel terrible, and she said, You've got to
(35:03):
be careful with dairy and sugar, and I was like,
Eastree is my favorite. So what I had to do
was gone by a whole lot of eggs on sale,
put them aside, and go. Your Easter is coming. Your
Easter will come anyway. My best was that it was
actually it was lovely to be away, and I just
got so much sleep.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I got so much.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Sleep, Like Luna would get up early, hang out with Nana.
Nana loves the morning with Luna, make her some wheat bits,
and it was just delightful to spend time with everyone.
So it was very restorative.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
My worst is that I like to sing you did
it for your hsc apparently who told you that? And anyway,
the other day, Luna was in the bath and she
was grizzling about something and I just started to sing
because I thought that'll calm her down. In the past,
when she was little, I can't remember, there's a particular
(36:01):
sort of hymn that I used to sing her, or
like a folk song, I don't even know what you'd.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Call it, but she quite liked that when she was when.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
She was a tiny baby, well.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Actually we don't know if she liked it.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Before she could speak, she didn't protest anyway. I started
singing and she just looked at me and said, Nana
sing all done? And I thought someone's been getting in
your ear. They someone has polluted the pure waters of
my granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Did you all done?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Or did you persist? She gave another crack.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I tried my best. Obviously, being away with the family,
it was great touch what I did not get sick.
But I have started seriously weight training, so you know
my hyperfixations. I have just realized because I was I
think I've said before, I was got my weighted vest
(36:57):
I've been lifting. Then I realized I've been lifting weights
that are way too light. I need to really level
up a lot. And so now I have and tell
you more about it.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Full of bar bells and kettle bells and stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Now, yes, well, because I've got there's men in my house,
so you know, they get used by a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
And how much are we lifting so much?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I don't want to disclose it because I don't want
to intimidate anybody who's listening. No, I'm still pretty pathetic,
But what I'm really enjoying is because I've just sort
of done the same form of exercise for so many years.
I like to sort of set and forget the same
way I do with my lunches or my breakfasts. I
never feel anything from it. I don't get very tired.
I never feel any muscle anything because I never ever
(37:41):
challenged my muscles like I can feel some things happening. Yeah,
And it's a real shift away also for gene x women.
We grew up in this diet culture and it was
always about cardio and about burning and about looking a
certain weight and all of those things. And this is
just very different. This is about lifting for longevity and
brain health and bone density and all of that kind
(38:03):
of stuff. Yeah. I listened to the podcast interview that
mel Robins did with Stacy Simms that everyone's talking about.
I think you're interviewing.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I recently that weight training is better for your brain.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
THANKU. And I was like, that's good. I don't like doku. Yeah,
got to get me else.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Came up, do it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
That's all We've got time for friends. Thank you for
being with us here on this short week. A massive
thank you for all of you who are listening to
today's show, Jesse and Mia, please thank how Marvel's team.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I think, thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer Leah
Poor Jess.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Our video producer Josh Green, and our junior content producers
Coco and Tessa. We will see you all in your
ears will We'll be back in your ears on Monday.
Well well, Hi. Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening.
If you love the show and want to support us
as well, subscribing to mom and Miya is the very
(39:01):
best way to do so. There is a link in
the episode descriptions
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
When you're looking at mastering effective communication, there are three
different fundamental types of conversations that occur in every interaction,
right and the biggest chance of miscommunication is when one
person thinks they're having one type of conversation and someone
else thinks they're having another. As I was prepping for
the show and reading about this, I was having a
(00:41):
text argument with someone. It was a man, and he
thought we were having a.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Practical, practical conversation and emotional conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And then I realized in the course of the conversation
that I was having an emotional conversation about how I feel.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out Loud and
to our Friday show, where you know, we don't do news.
We just do talking. Nothing from the outside is breaking
into our bubble. Today is also a public holiday, of course,
it's an Zac Day, but we thought we would do
an episode for you anyway, because you might have been
up since really early at the dawn service. You might
be baking anzac Vicki's. You might just be going to
(01:21):
the beach, but yeah, what you deserved them.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
You might have the day off. There are some hard
working out ladders who are working today a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But anyway, we digress.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm Holly wayIn right, I'm Mere Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And on today's show, when was the last time you
cried in front of someone else? And would you tell
a complete stranger the answer to that question? Welcome to
the list of magic questions, which are shortcuts to connection,
plus one of the twenty five lip products in my handbag,
a book and an article about a cosmetic procedure you've
likely never heard of, its recommendations, and our best and worst,
(01:57):
which include camping, nicoles, a family sick fest, and Nana singing.
But first, Mere Friedman, in.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Case you missed it, being polite to your chat GPT
bot could be doing some damage to the world. This
is confusing news for everyone who uses phrases like please
and thank you when they talk to an AI tool
like chat GPT. I do I always say please.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Me too, I'm told to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I don't really say thank you. But what it does
is that it increases the amount of energy required to
process whatever you've asked the chatbot to do. That's what
Sam Altman, who is the boss of Open Ai, has
said this week when someone asked him about the electricity
that powers AI and all the energy required, and he
said that politeness increases costs for his company by tens
(02:43):
of millions of dollars per year. Now, for those not
yet using AI, you can do all sorts of things
for free, so it doesn't cost you directly to say
please and thank you in case you're wondering, and it
doesn't change the accuracy or the quality of the results
that you get. It just means that the computer has
to think a bit harder before answering you.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So just about extra words or is it about those words?
In particular?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It's about extra words and phrases, and it has to
be polite back to you. Now, there are two reasons
why people tend to use thank you and please if
they do. The first is ethically because it's a robot,
but maybe we don't want to be mean to the robots.
And the second is just in case the robots take over,
we want to, you know, fitting good with them.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Reason I would say is that it is about setting
a precedent if you get into the habit of barking orders,
which I have found with my Siri, with my like
all of the things that I tell to do things.
And I think, firstly, I don't want my daughter just
hearing me yell orders at things all the time. And secondly,
if I speak to something that is serving me like that, yeah,
(03:50):
then how long until it bleeds into the workplace where
you know your boss is speaking to the assistant with
the same level of.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Oh, you talk to someone in the service industry.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Exactly, real human without a please and think.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
But then I was also told, and maybe this isn't true,
but when we have had a training and things is
that if you're polite to it, it will be polite
to you, which is the same aunt in the world,
right karma. You put out what you want to get back,
and so I don't want my robot to shout at
me no.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But it takes more energy, so it uses up more
energy and the cost of energy. Obviously, the energy required
to process all of the AI queries is powered by electricity, which.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
And Holly, you're onto something, because there actually was a
study that found they had people all across the world
because manners are very different in different countries, there are
different versions of please and thank you, and they found
that you got thirty percent worse results without manners. So
you're on chat GPT whatever it is. They will omit information.
Sometimes there are errors, like apparently you get better results
(04:52):
if you speak.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
That's finally what chat GPT told me. I did some
research this morning and it said it will not affect
the quality. It does talk back to you. However, you
talk to it so like I've trained mine that it'll
just be I'll be like, thanks, that's an awesome answer.
Could you try doing it with a little bit more
brevity or in bullet points, and then it'll go thanks
(05:16):
so much for your detailed feedback. That's amazing, And it's like,
are you feel cool? Like it's I think so much
of what people are scared about with AI is that
it's so dehumanized, and it is because you are actually
talking to people and things that don't exist. But by
making it as human as possible, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So res Altman suggesting that we should stop saying please
and thank you, because he's like, if you're worried about
the environmental impacts of AI, then the way to deal
with it is short and to the point.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Not really, he was more tongue in cheek. It's costing
us a lot of money more, but it's worth it
if it means that the world is being populated by
better manners. I will bear that cost.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
This is the most Silicon Valley, just telling us that
it's less efficient to be polite. That's where Silicon Valley
leads us.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I like MEA's theory that we're playing the long game
and we have to be nice to our future over lords.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Like they're keeping a list somewhere.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
They'd be like me is the one who.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Always says that thanks, great job. She complimented my outfit.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
How do I become a super communicator? You know those
people who can talk to just about anyone about anything,
and not just small talk. They find themselves in deep,
interesting conversations with strangers. Apparently there is a name for
these people, and they are super communicators, and any of
us can become one with the right training. A new
(06:39):
podcast by Charles Dowig called super Communicators explores the science
of connection and offers very practical advice on how to
have more interesting and fulfilling conversations. Here's a little bit
of that podcast.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
The next time you're on an airplane or on a bus,
or you're at a party, or you're making small talk
with someone, turn to them and ask them a deep question.
And you might think to yourself, this is going to
be weird, it's going to be really awkward. But I
think what you'll find is that if you ask a
question with genuine curiosity, the other person is delighted to
(07:12):
answer it, and then you should ask another question and
share something about yourself and then eventually ask them, so,
just out of curiosity, when's the last time you cried
in front of another person.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Central to this is something called magical questions. They have
been studied and determined by psychologists to increase intimacy between
two people. And at the most basic level, it means
that you meet someone right and you just have a
chat and they go, I'm a teacher.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Now.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The logical next question for a lot of people would
be what school, what year, what long have you been
how long have you been a teacher? Exactly? And we
know that they're like more close questions, and the advice
here is that your next question should be why what
made you go into teaching?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I would feel like that was had some judgement, me too,
why a teacher?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yes? Why would you ever? Because I wanted to be
What why questions prompt people to talk about their values, beliefs,
or experiences, which brings us to the thirty six questions
that lead to love? Do you to remember this essay?
It was published who just over ten years ago. It
was modern Love Essay originally, and then the New York
Times published all the questions And it came originally from
(08:19):
a study called the fast Friends Procedure, which doesn't sound
very sexy, but a woman named Mandy len Catron was
interested in this research and she found herself on a
date with a man that she was interested in, and
they were talking about whether you can fall in love
with anyone and relationships and connection, and she said, well,
there's this study. Let's go through these thirty six questions.
And she couldn't believe how she felt at the end
(08:41):
of it, so she pens this modern Love essay, which
then goes viral. Ten years have passed, they're still together,
they're getting married, she's interviewed on this podcast. The key
to those questions are that they're not about politics, they're
not about the TV show you're watching. They are about
mutual and progressive self disclosure. They're not about the facts
of our lives, but how we feel about them. So
(09:02):
there are questions like do you have a secret hunch
about how you will die? If you could wake up
tomorrow having gained any one quality or ability, what would
it be? Or how do you feel about your relationship
with your mother? Holly? In a way, this seems obvious,
right right?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Question on the plane?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Why questions? Open ended? Why are we so reluctant to
ask why questions?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Because they're no scense. It's so funny because I actually
I love this because small talk is exhausting, right, and
I hate it, and I'd much rather have a proper
conversation with somebody in a social situation. But if somebody
turned round to me on an airplane and said to me,
how do you really feel about your relationship with your mother?
(09:47):
I would probably push them out of the door.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Well, that's why the way that it's designed, these thirty
six questions is progressive exactly. So it starts don't start back.
One of the early ones is dinner party, alive or dead?
Who comes like something? That's a bit of a game.
And then as it goes on you kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Because once you start really telling the truth, because small
talk is basically like armor for us all to wear,
right where we can all rob up near each other
in social situations, but we're not giving any vulnerability and
no one has to give any back. We're just all
just there like smiling and like clinking eyeglasses whatever. And
as soon as you start actually telling the truth about things,
you feel very vulnerable because I don't know you, I
(10:26):
don't trust you, right, so you have to build a
level of trust for me to tell you that I
have been in work situations not at MoMA MIA, but
over the years of my working life where you know,
you'll go to like management training and the first thing
is we're going to play an ice breaker game and
they'll ask a question, a really personal question, tell us
a secret about something you did you're ashamed of, and
I'm like, I will be making up the answer to
(10:48):
that question.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Because you have to earn this y the right to
have somebody's vulnerability, And interviewers know this. Right when you're
interviewing someone, you have to get there quite quickly, but
at least you're already engaged in a contract, which is
like I'm going to ask you things that I wouldn't
ask you if I make you on a plane. M
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I think as well, central to that is the mutual
self disclosure. So I think you would get a totally
different result if we sat down and I said, may Or,
I'm going to ask you thirty six questions in a row,
and then I went, it would be a totally interview.
Well that's an interview rather than having two people go
all right, we're entering into a contract where we're going
to maybe share things we would not ordinarily.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
It's so funny when you sent me this podcast to
listen to, because Jason, my husband, has always described me
as a super communicator, and I'd never heard the expression
other than him using it to describe me. I mean,
I kind of understood what he meant. Obviously, he's someone
who doesn't like talking very much. He's deeply introverted, and
I wouldn't say that I'm extroverted. But this whole thing,
(11:48):
I kept waiting for the aha moment in it, but
it is all. It just describes me. And I don't
say that to big note myself because it's often makes
people uncomfortable, like I seem to have missed the part
where you learn how to do small talk. And that's
why No Filter suited me for so long as a podcast,
because it gave me permission to do this, which is
(12:13):
my natural default mechanism. So we were away on holidays
last week and I met someone in the bar. They
were sitting with a mutual friend, and I started talking
to her, and I won't disclose what we spoke about,
but within about two or three questions, we were just
talking about something in her life that was very, very deep.
(12:35):
And sometimes I just go, how did I get here?
Like I actually can't even deconstruct so the way I'm
able to do that, And I've never met anyone who
objects to it, like people are usually very disarmed by it.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I think that's what they're trying to say in this podcast,
but also that there are some people where this does
come naturally, and for those of us who maybe it
doesn't come as naturally and we're a little bit more
shy or reticent to open up a conversation, sometimes we
look at people like you and go, what are the
mechanics behind that? How do yousel?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Closure is important in the early reviews for No Filter,
people would always say, Oh, she talks too much about
herself about me, And that's very deliberate because the way
you get someone to trust you and the way you
make them feel like it's more of a conversation and
less of an interrogation is by being vulnerable first. And
so I would do that, and what we learned is
(13:31):
to actually just cut out my bits because no one
needs to hear my stories. But it works very well.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
So it also can be a good deflection though, because
if I'm in a small talk situation and I was
just away on a trip where every day I had
to sit next to, like not even every day, every
meal time set next people I didn't know, I don't
really want to talk about myself in those situations. So
getting other people to talk about themselves is the key,
which is a little unfair and a little unbalanced, but
people love talking about themselves. Once you get them going
(14:01):
on something, they're passionate.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, for me, it's an energy conserving tool as well.
In a social situation, it's an energy conserving tool because
most people really do like talking about themselves. You're life hole,
and it means that I can deflect. I once went
to dinner with two women who are a couple, and
I was quite friends with them, and a little way
in they'd obviously been talking about me, because they went, no,
that's enough questions for us. We want to ask you
(14:24):
how you're going.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I always hate that.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, when I'm like, oh, okay, well, clearly I've gone
into interviewer mode, which I do when I'm tired or
you know, feeling like talking.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
The second episode had a bunch of stuff about nonverbal communication,
which you know we talked about a lot, but it
was it was really specific. So apparently like confidence can
be read by the distance between your ear lobes and
your shoulders. That was a big one. What do you
mean so posture? That's why posture is seen as really important,
Like when someone stands up straight like they can often
(15:00):
make you feel a lot more at ease, that sort
of thing. The second thing was hands on the table,
so they said that if you're in a business meeting,
or if you're in a word scenario, let's say you're
running a meeting, people might walk out and go, I
don't know, I just got a weird vibe. I just
wasn't feeling it, and it'll be some unconscious thing that
they can't even name. But if you had your hands
under the table, they don't have the same level of trust.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Bloody, language is really important, so you should never cross
your arms, always, never have your energy blocked. You will
instinctively do that as a way to sort of protect
yourself without even realizing it. The ideal thing is for
someone to show the inside of their wrists. If you
can find a way to show the inside of your
wrists and your palms, that's very disarmy.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Like dong rolling on their back.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Correct. And the other way to really show someone that
you're listening is to tilt your head a dog. Yeah,
like a dog. You just go like that and raise
your eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The raising eyebrows it's called an eyebrow flash. You're not
meant to do it too often, but it says like
I'm interested in compelled by what you're saying. But I
was thinking about the impact of injectibles, and our face
is not moving like maybe they once if you can't
actually move your eyebrows or even like what do they
(16:14):
call it when you're like replicating or mirroring the expressions
of the person you're talking to.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, you know, as part of this book Charles Doig
is really interesting, and he said, when you're looking at
mastering effective communication, there are three different fundamental types of
conversations that occur in every interaction, right, And the biggest
chance of miscommunication is when one person thinks they're having
one type of conversation and someone else thinks they're having another.
(16:40):
So the three types of practical conversations, which is, you know,
decision making or problem solving. The second one is emotional conversations,
how do we feel about feelings, empathy? And the third
one is social conversations, and that's exploring identity, relationships and
social roles. And it's so funny that as I was
prepping for the show and reading about this, I was
having a text argument with someone and they thought it
(17:05):
was a man could have been my husband, and he
thought we were having.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
A practical, a practical conversation, an emotional conversation, and he was.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Very confused by the enormity of my responses to something
that seemed really practical. And then I realized in the
course of the conversation that I was having an emotional
conversation about how I feel. And I think that happens
a lot. I know it happens a lot with me.
When I'm talking to men, including my sons, I'm always
having an emotional conversation, but they, in most cases think
(17:35):
that they're having a practical conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So when was the last time he cried in front
of someone else? Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
The last time I cried in front of someone else
was in in public cry. I cried in public, which
is always the worst. You know, things the wheels are
falling off. Oh yeah, when I was at a medical
center because Luna had hurt herself and she would not
stop crying, and I just broke down and the woman
at reception was so so lovely. Luca walked in, he'd
(18:02):
been at work and came to get us. He went
to Luna, and then the woman at reception said, I
think your wife needs a cuddle.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Oh, And then that made me cry more, and I
just I got a mask because I went maybe if
I wear the mask high enough, no one will see
the tears under the mask.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
But that was not my finest moment. When was the
last time you cried?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You know?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I have tried very hard to never cry in front
of other people, even Brent, I hate it. I like
to cry by myself. That's my preferred crying situation. But
I did cry, yeah, in front of Brent. He's probably
the only person who sees me cry very much. And
it was one of those frustrated It was about tax.
Of course, Tax makes me cry, just like I feel
(18:45):
so overwhelmed by all this and why aren't you helping
me with it? And he's like, I can't. It was
one of those conversations which was not Again, he probably
thought he was having a practical conversation. I thought we
were going to see the bookkeeper and I'm like.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
But you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I'm sorry overwhelmed and.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Tax is never not emotional.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Maya.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I went through a long period of crying a lot,
including at work when I was really overwhelmed, really frustrated,
which is there's just nothing worse than crying in a
work situation because women will often cry in those situations
because they're frustrated or they're frustrated with themselves or whatever
it is. And that was the case with me. I
was just annoyed at myself. But that was a long
(19:26):
time ago. I haven't cried at work for ages, not
for years, but it would have been with Jason he's
usually the only one that sees me cry. And again,
not as much like when I was going through perimenopause,
I reckon I cried every day. I was so easy
to cry, not always in front of people, often in
front of people, and to the point where I just
(19:47):
felt like I had no control. And there've been other
times when when I was taking you know, I still do,
but at the start of taking antimsa iity medication, I
sort of didn't cry for about five or six years
full stop. But there's something that's just so vulnerable in
crying in front of other people.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You know. The thing that I love the most about
this is that with talk and the election and politics
and vision and all that kind of stuff, the idea
that there are so many other things to talk about, yeah,
and so many other things that are actually connective to
you that we ignore that we can find in other people,
and that there's a lot of whether it's surface or not,
(20:24):
but there are ways to have enriching and meaningful conversations
with literally anyone.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Can I ask you if our out loud as are
going to a long weeken barbecue, what do you reckon?
Are three of these magic questions that aren't necessarily like
the really deep show me all your insides, Yeah, but
are really good ones from the list for that kind
of situation.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
This one, and I remember reading something about it. Someone
clever has said it before, which is some version of
what are you most passionate about? What are you passionate about?
What are you interested in at the moment? Something like that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I know Elizabeth Gilbert, that's what she asked, because you
can imagine meeting someone like that, they're constantly people wanting
to talk to them. And it was a very good
deflecting conversation. She said, what are you excited about right now?
I thought that was great because in terms of passionate,
that can almost be a bit of pressure, like, oh god, I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
What are you excited about?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
What are you excited about right now? And immediately I
could tell her. I told her about this book that
I was, you know, in the middle of writing, and
she ended up endorsing that book. It was such a
clever question because I could tell she didn't want to talk,
but it was a generous question, and you know, I
thought it was really it was a good one, what
are you excited about right now? Also, I just always
(21:37):
ask what should I watch next?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, that's good small talk if you're.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Reaching for something. I know that small talk. It's not
a particularly deep question, but it can. The key I
think is follow up questions. When you're talking to someone,
you've just got to listen to what they're saying and
look for the openings in what they're saying. That are
the tangents out loud.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
As in a moment. It's stuff to read and stuff
to smear on your mouth. Come back for our recommendations, vibes, ideas, atmosphere,
something usual file.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
This is my best recommendation. Good.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Look, it's Friday, so of course you want to help
me set up your weekend. Who wants to go first?
You two have been away, You've probably got someone. Yes.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I actually I've brilliant one.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I have such a good one.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I have a book and I had heard so many
people recommend this book. But it is historical fiction, and
I thought it sounded like hard work, and I was like,
I want to relax. It just delivered everything that I
possibly wanted, and every review is spot on. It is
a book called The Safe Keep by yah Elle vander Odin.
It was nominated, I think it was long listed for
the Booker Prize this year. Like it is very, very buzzy,
(22:45):
but it's about a woman named Isabelle who lives in
this house in the Netherlands post World War Two, so
it's nineteen sixty one. Her brother's girlfriend comes and stays
with her for a summer, and it's about the relationship
that evolves between the two of them. It's sexy, it's
a sexy book, but there's also a fascinating twist that
(23:06):
complicates the whole thing. It is stunningly written, and it's
like quite poetic, but also really insightful about what Europe
looked like in the decades after World War Two. I
imagined that, and I've studied World War Two. I didn't
realize that what country you went back to, whether you
went back to if you were a Jewish person who
(23:29):
ended up in the camps in World War Two, I
thought that countries looked after you, that Sweden or France
or the Netherlands looked after you very different depending on
where you went back to. And this is about what
was lost and what's yours and fascinating, fascinating. So it's
called The Safe Keep. You must read it.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I'm going to jump in because I've got a silly one,
whereas I think is a smart too, because it's just
a lipstick, you know how, maybe.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Not all from lipsticks are very important.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
We were recently recording our Apple Show. Do you remember
we were before our Apple Show recently? Emilia Lester was
there and she just said to me, Holly showed me
all the lip products in your bag.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
You know how much at open questions, Flia is such
she should write the thirty six questions for hollywaen I
fall in love with you and the first question is
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Maybe why shee I fell in love so fast as friends.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Because I do always have twenty five lip products in
my bag at any one time. And today or yesterday,
I was clearing out my bag and I realized the
most used because it's the one I have to replace
the most often. And I was like, I should just
recommend that it's a bit basic, but hey, and it is.
Nas it's like a lip bar, it's a bag, it's
(24:42):
a barm so it's like shiny shear.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Okay, it's sheer, but it's pigmented.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's pigmented, but just a little bit. But the good
thing about it is because it's called afterglow Right. The
shade I was called Dolceavida and it's forty six dollars,
which is a lot of money. But the thing that
is great about it and I have used many times,
is because it's so popular at Dubecity. Soh m COD
do a version very similar, even in the same square
thing because the thing I love about the square thing
it's easy to find in my bag with all the
(25:08):
other lip products.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And also don't pull out a tampon misteak, you.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Just reach for the square one. Mco Dupe one is
eleven bucks and they've got the same shade, what's very
similar shade.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I've used that dole. They're brilliant and they're really good
if you don't want to look like you've got a
full on lipy, like if you want something to.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Like it, it's a little bit done but not color yeap.
And the other thing is if you don't have like
just a lip balm and your lips are feeling dry,
it's like that in between and then in between the
MC and the nas Mecha Dooo one too. It's about
thirty bucks, and so they're like a lip balm with
a bit of tint that I realize I use down
to the absolute stop all the.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
You know what, I'm just going to throw in an
extra one. This is a product that I use every
single day that I just every now and then go,
this is a great products. Lana Lips Lips with a
little bit of pigment. Single day I put that on
my lip and it just I never get chapped and
it's just so good love.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Okay, maya take this away.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I always get really excited about recommending a book or
a TV show, and then I realized that my record
are just whatever you guys have recommended. But like a
month later, so I've had to dig deep and I
actually I'm going to recommend an article I read on
Muma Mia about leg lengthening surgery. This is a bit
of a personal obsession of mine, not because I want
to have it done, but just because I've always been
(26:26):
fascinated by it and I didn't know that it was
happening in Australia and I didn't know that women were
getting it.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Wait, so it's an elective. Women in Australia can choose
to get their legs lengthened taller.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
So it's a surgery that was originally I guess created
or pioneered for people who had defects in their legs
or needed to be taller for you know, I guess
health reasons, or had made like.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
A discrepancy and they're left in their right because that
can cause heaps.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Of issues, exactly right. And so now in the same
way that a lot of things that are now used
esthetically were originally used for medical reasons, so it is
with leg lengthening surgery. So what happens is they basically
break your legs. They break both of your legs, They
put them in cages, and then there are like magnets
in the bone and they keep stretching them like by
(27:16):
a millimeter.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Every stay because you would need something the bone.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So what it does is that it's like your bone
thinks I learned this in the article. Your bone thinks
it's been fractured, so it rushes to repair it, and
it like builds new bone around so it's taller. You
can get a few centimeters. It's really disturbing just where
so in America a lot of men are doing it.
You know, short kings. Not everybody can marry a cock edman.
(27:45):
Some short kings just want to be taller, and so
a lot of men used to get it. I read
a really long piece in GQ about it many years ago,
but now it's not a common procedure. It's very controversial
among orthopedic surgeons because it's correct purely elective. I mean,
the recovery and the pain and all of those things
is immense. It's very expensive. You don't get anything back
(28:09):
on Medicare, which is actually good to know because if
that's where our Medicare dollars were going, it would be
a problem. But it's just a fascinating article. We'll put
a link to it in the show notes after the
break the camping, Nicole family, holiday sickness, and some feedback
for Nana. It is our best and Worst of the week.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Want unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday exclusively for Mum and MEA subscribers. Follow the
link in the show notes to get us in your
ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
It's time for best and Worst, the peaks the troughs
of our lives. Holly, you go first, what's your worst
of the week?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So regular outlouders well know, and as you certainly do
that every Easter I go camping with my original Mothers group,
so much so that I have written a book inspired by.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
That weekend I went. It's good weather for Hollies camp.
It was because sometimes it's miserable.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Oh Easter weekend was glorious. So it's my best and
my worst. But the worst was the fact that it's
making an appearance of my worst is actually sparked by
an out louder's post this week, which made me realize
a cold hard truth about myself. Right, so, an out
louder called Rose May Foster posted in the out Louder's
Facebook gred, this was so good that she is in
(29:33):
the coal and she is going camping for the first
time with a group of families, just like I do.
Just so any out louders who aren't familiar with our
law no nicoles. It was a term coined by the
great Australian comedian Geraldine Hickey, but it's the name for
a woman in a friendship group who always does the organizing.
She's the one who books the table and knows sends
(29:53):
around the menu and all that. In the Easter context,
our out louder is in a coal and so she said.
The weeks before, she was sending messages to the group
being like, should we group by this? Should we group
by that? And everyone was like, don't worry about it,
We're chill, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
She right.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Then it comes to have we got enough eggs? She
means Easter eggs? Yes, is the collective reply. But a
nicole knows to dig deeper, says Rose. Person one has
big eggs, Person two has small eggs. Person three has
little kinder bunnies. Yes, there's enough chocolate to feed all
the kids, but do they all have the same or
will there be tears? Am I the only one who
thinks that the kids will crack it if the bunny
(30:29):
brings visibly different things for different kids. Don't even get
me started on the baskets and the ears. And one
of the girls is like, oh, that's awesome. We should
have just let you organize it, and she's.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Like, I'm losing my mind.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
She was on your trip. She has could have been
my friend.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I haven't had to buy Easter eggs for children for
some time now, and I've been alarmed to see these
new trend of Easter baskets all over social media, and
people making Easter baskets almost like a Christmas stocking filled
with presents.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, sometimes we don't do any of that. But what
this post made me realize is I am always the
person who goes, don't worry about it, right, I'm always
the person We've got loads of chocolate, don't even worry
about it. I haven't even thought about it. And then
I get there and go, oh, that's right. This nicole
hates me, like, not me personally, but all I represent
(31:19):
in the world, which is like she'll be long had
looking them whole of mirrors. I have friends like this
who will be the one who when your child is
melting down because indeed, you only got them a shitty
little kinder surprise and someone else got a giant six
foot bunny has thought of that and has brought a spare.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Also, you could use it as an opportunity to teach resilience.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Well you could, And that's the way I look at it.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Me capitalism.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
If my kid doesn't get the Easter egg of their dreams,
deal with its sister anyway. So my worst realization that
I am indeed a terrible friend in and the bane
of all nicholes everywhere. But my best was the Easter
camping because although I always moan about it, and we
did indeed end up, I moan about the labor involved.
(32:00):
We did end up sleeping on the floor because the
blow up mattress collapsed. And the kids who are teenagers
definitely are getting naughtier as they like in a different
way than they were when they were little, and so
there's more vigilance required in that regard, and sometimes there's
where they were shoes and all that. It is actually
definitely one of my favorite times of the year because
these women that I go on this trip with and
(32:21):
their partners, they are funny and we have known each
other a long time, and watching the way the kids
interact with each other is so entertained.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
How many kids are they now?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
There would be like fifteen kids, oh wow, maybe more.
And the thing is is, you know that girls grow first,
So the last few years the girls have been quite
grown up and the boys haven't. And then this year
all the boys are like six foot and they've.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
All got shoulders, like, oh wow, we're actually camping. We
just a whole lot of people, but we still had
to do an egg hunt, they still had to be
even though they were like, we didn't need ag hunt.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Then on Easter Sunder, they were all.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Like, where where's the egg hut?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
And because Brent had gone off camping first without me
because I was doing something else, and I met him there,
obviously he hadn't remembered any of the eggs, so I
had to do an early morning supermarket Easter bunny swoop
on Sunday. Anyway, it was the best of times, the
worst of times, and I loved it, and that was
my used to camp.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
My worst was we went on holiday last week with
the in laws with.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Two together ye.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Generations, that's what we were. It was delightful. But the
day that we actually got there, Luna got sick, right,
so she was sick, and then I think she managed
to make everyone sick. There was tonsladis going around And
I said, nearly every day, I said, I've actually never
felt so well.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
You said that, I know, well.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I wanted to touch wood, I wanted to go spit
on the ground.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
YEP, I said, I am feeling because you know, you
keep checking in, you go nap. Never felt better. I'm
feeling really healthy. My throat is top notch.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
And she needed to say this a lot because in
the past she's been patient zero that has infected the
wide effect.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
And I needed everyone to know that I wasn't patient zero.
Luna was taken up with her anyway. I keep going
feeling great, looking great, just like I'm active lively. She said,
never ever better, You ever felt better. And then on
the Monday night, I went to bed, slept like a
dream because I was feeling so well, and then at
(34:20):
one am woke up and went, oh, And that's when
the vomiting started. And for about nine hours I think
on the hour, got up through up, oh, and it
was like the first one, I went, maybe this is
a one off. And then when the second one happened,
I went, this is not a one off. And it
just kept going. And what I forgot about food poisoning
(34:40):
and I don't know what I ate, which is so annoying,
and no one else got sick, so no idea what
it was. But once the throwing up stopped, I felt
like shit for days, like the dehydration and your whole
body sore and you're tired, appetite wasn't great. Ended up
having to go to the doctor because I was like,
I still feel terrible, and she said, You've got to
(35:03):
be careful with dairy and sugar, and I was like,
Eastree is my favorite. So what I had to do
was gone by a whole lot of eggs on sale,
put them aside, and go. Your Easter is coming. Your
Easter will come anyway. My best was that it was
actually it was lovely to be away, and I just
got so much sleep.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I got so much.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Sleep, Like Luna would get up early, hang out with Nana.
Nana loves the morning with Luna, make her some wheat bits,
and it was just delightful to spend time with everyone.
So it was very restorative.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
My worst is that I like to sing you did
it for your hsc apparently who told you that? And anyway,
the other day, Luna was in the bath and she
was grizzling about something and I just started to sing
because I thought that'll calm her down. In the past,
when she was little, I can't remember, there's a particular
(36:01):
sort of hymn that I used to sing her, or
like a folk song, I don't even know what you'd.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Call it, but she quite liked that when she was when.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
She was a tiny baby, well.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Actually we don't know if she liked it.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Before she could speak, she didn't protest anyway. I started
singing and she just looked at me and said, Nana
sing all done? And I thought someone's been getting in
your ear. They someone has polluted the pure waters of
my granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Did you all done?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Or did you persist? She gave another crack.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I tried my best. Obviously, being away with the family,
it was great touch what I did not get sick.
But I have started seriously weight training, so you know
my hyperfixations. I have just realized because I was I
think I've said before, I was got my weighted vest
(36:57):
I've been lifting. Then I realized I've been lifting weights
that are way too light. I need to really level
up a lot. And so now I have and tell
you more about it.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Full of bar bells and kettle bells and stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Now, yes, well, because I've got there's men in my house,
so you know, they get used by a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
And how much are we lifting so much?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I don't want to disclose it because I don't want
to intimidate anybody who's listening. No, I'm still pretty pathetic,
But what I'm really enjoying is because I've just sort
of done the same form of exercise for so many years.
I like to sort of set and forget the same
way I do with my lunches or my breakfasts. I
never feel anything from it. I don't get very tired.
I never feel any muscle anything because I never ever
(37:41):
challenged my muscles like I can feel some things happening. Yeah,
And it's a real shift away also for gene x women.
We grew up in this diet culture and it was
always about cardio and about burning and about looking a
certain weight and all of those things. And this is
just very different. This is about lifting for longevity and
brain health and bone density and all of that kind
(38:03):
of stuff. Yeah. I listened to the podcast interview that
mel Robins did with Stacy Simms that everyone's talking about.
I think you're interviewing.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
I recently that weight training is better for your brain.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
THANKU. And I was like, that's good. I don't like doku. Yeah,
got to get me else.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Came up, do it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
That's all We've got time for friends. Thank you for
being with us here on this short week. A massive
thank you for all of you who are listening to
today's show, Jesse and Mia, please thank how Marvel's team.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I think, thank you to our team group executive producer
Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer Leah
Poor Jess.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Our video producer Josh Green, and our junior content producers
Coco and Tessa. We will see you all in your
ears will We'll be back in your ears on Monday.
Well well, Hi. Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening.
If you love the show and want to support us
as well, subscribing to mom and Miya is the very
(39:01):
best way to do so. There is a link in
the episode descriptions
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.