17.11.22 TASMANIA TALKS FULL PODCAST

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Listenlive at Tasmania Talks dot com au.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
It is Tasmania Talks with Alan on a Thursday. Big
show coming up today, We've got Vetcorner coming up after eleven.
We've also got Bridget Archer coming up after ten. But
yesterday we were reminded once again exactly how precarious this
Russian situation really is. Every couple of weeks something seems
to happen and it makes everyone sit up and take notice.
We've got powerstations being shot at, which makes everyone get

(00:28):
very nervous. Yesterday morning we had a couple of Russian
made missiles that landed in Poland, which has the potential
if indeed it was a deliberate act by Russia, it
means that all of NATO is basically at war with Russia,
which is a bad situation all round. To try and

(00:48):
make sense of it, Head of Politics and International Relations
at UTAs School of Social Sciences, it's Matt Killingsworth. Good morning, Matt,
how are you. I'm very well. This is just another
reminder of just how precarious this whole situation is and
how I guess close we keep coming to this becoming
basically World War three isn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, I think you're right. I think the exactly. I
think it's a reminder of the risks of miscalculation, the
reminder of that when missiles are wizzing around, there is
always the sort of the chance of misinterpretation and things
going wrong, and that's exactly what's happening at the moment.

(01:30):
I think the news this morning, though, suggests that we've
sort of stepped back from the precipice with for lots
of reasons. So both the Polish president and the head
of NATO have confirmed that they were in fact Ukraine
air defense missiles that landed in Poland and unfortunately anapologies,

(01:52):
obviously unfortunately killed two people. And yet Stottenburg from NATO
has been very much on the front foot in saying
that he still hold Russia responsible for this because they
are flying, because of they are launching missiles so close
to the Ukraine or heading to so close to the
to the Ukraine Poland border.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's I mean, we keep getting told that once Russia, well,
we're not going to do it now. But at the beginning,
we were told that once Russia managed to take over Ukraine,
they were going to move on to other countries, and
I guess now, and that's probably why all these other
countries are helping Ukraine out in this on this for
this whole thing.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Is very much so.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
I mean, how close are we with NATO. I mean,
what would it take for NATO to just say, look,
we've had enough, that's it, We're shutting this down. We're
going to finish it off. I mean, are we getting
close to that or not?

Speaker 3 (02:48):
No, No, NATO is being and so this is where
this is where. So what we had with the most
recent we had a quite lengthy explanation from Stoltenburg about
how the while there is Article five in the Washington Treaty,
which is the NATO Treaty, that says an attack on
one is an attack on all, he made it very
clear that that isn't necessarily a triggering mechanism, that it

(03:10):
also requires the country attacked to request help from NATO,
and that there's a political decision making process over which
NATO will then decide through its executive, through its executive,
whether it will trigger Article five. So there are a
few processes that will still that were still to go through. However,
your point is really valid because the war in Ukraine

(03:31):
as you know, has encouraged both Finland and Sweeming to
apply for NATO membership and they have subsequently been been
admitted to NATO.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
And so the the the.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Relevance of NATO, I don't think has ever been stronger,
but there is also NATO has been very very careful
in its language to sort of and an understanding of
NATO of boots on the ground in Ukraine changes the
complexity of this war entirely. And that's where you get
the World War three scenario that you alluded to in

(04:08):
your introduction.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
That's where that's where Putin decides that it's the world
against him, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (04:14):
It is? And and I think that the still the
existential threat here remains not necessarily and I remain terribly
afraid that person in becoming an increasingly irrational actor is
going to test NATO's resilience and my greatest theory that
he will test it through the use of a theater

(04:36):
or a tactical style of nuclear weapon. I think that
remains really greatest. Yeah, yeah, that and that would that
would definitely test the resolve of NATO on how they
would respond to the use of again not a not
a massive sort of hydrogen bomb Nagasaki Horozomas style, but
a tactical nuclear weapon. That's that I think presents the

(04:58):
greatest test of NATO's resolve.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
What would happen if that happened? What would NATO do?

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Indeed, And that's the question, you're indeed, and this is
where So if there would be division in NATO, I
imagined there would be countries such as Poland, for example,
probably the British, and probably the Americans who would be
wanting to be on the front foot. Germany, for example,
would be very reluctant to enter into a war because

(05:23):
of its militaristic pass So again, this is the this
is the calculations that would go on with with how
NATO would respond.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
I yesterday morning I kind of thought whether Belarus was
somewhere in there, because I think last I heard tell
me if I'm wrong here. This is just off the
top of my head. I think Russian troops were going
to Belarus. That is that, right? Am I making that up?

Speaker 3 (05:48):
No, you're not.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
That is true.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Very strong ally of Russia and has been involved in
the conflict. In fact, in the beginning of the conflict,
Russian Russian troops entered through the north of Ukraine, and
they intended to take Kiev. They entered through Belarus. They
regularly have military exercise with Belarus. So no, you're you're
definitely correct about that.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
I sort of wondered whether these rocket well, I mean,
it's now been disproven, but I did wonder whether they
could have come from there. What would happen if something
did happen out of Belarus? Would that escalate the situation?

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yes, indeed, and there is multiple points of escalation. And
it's really interesting and you say that this is this
being disproven. Uklaim president of Voladi Menzelinski, is still claiming
that these were Russian missip.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, I wonder if he's playing politics or whether he
knows something else.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
You know, very much, so very much. So it's important
for him to be able to be able to sort
of continue to point to Russia as a bad guy.
And it's not a good look obviously for him for
his air defense system to have been responsible for this mistake.
So again, there is still that all of those unknown

(07:02):
with respects to this war that continue to sort of
inflame and already really really fraught situation in the region.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
It's getting weirder and weirder. How do you reckon this
is going to finish? There? You go look into your
crystal ball, man.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, this is a really good question. I've sort of
got three ways this for finish, and there's I think
this is how this is proceeding to the moment. The
least sort of palatable option is that with the European
winter coming up, that this is going to enter into
an attritional war where Russia is no longer going to
be on the offensive, but they are also going to

(07:38):
sort of conduct defensive military operations and continue to sort
of lob heavy weapons and heavy armory into civilian based areas,
and there will be a little bit of advancement and
then a little bit of counter advancement, but nothing will
happen for a long period of time. That's a bad option.
The second option is the one that it seems that
the Americans are pushing a little bit of the moment,

(08:00):
which is encouraging Jolinski to go to the negotiating table.
And I think and he's made it very clear that
the only sort of context under which he will negotiate
is if the starting point is a return to pre
twenty fourteen Ukraine border. So that's so that's Russian troops
out of don Yetsk, out of Lagans, out of Crimea,

(08:23):
and it's and so the pressure is going to come
from Ukraine's western allies. As the war becomes more expensive,
as for example, energy supplies in Europe start to dwindle
in the cold weather, there is going to be pressure
on Jolinski to start sort of having overtures of diplomacy.
So I think they're the two scenarios under which this

(08:45):
will this will happen. I can't see a scenario in
which Putin unilaterally retreats. He has invested too much of
his own political capital and legitimacy in this war, So yeah,
I think that's there. They're there too, most likely scenario.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
It's going to be hard for Putin to make it
look like he's won anything, and this really isn't it
if he just said okay, yeah, it's just going to
be a really hard spin. I'm sure he's going to
try and spin. He might be able to do it
in Russia, but it's not going to win by the
way this is going. I heard a while ago that
the Russians are actually running out of missiles and things.
Is that a possibility to I think I heard that
the missiles that they were using were progressively getting older

(09:24):
and older, and eventually they were most likely to run
out of the things.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, so this is the other issue. So as the
sanctions bie and as the trade sanction of sanctions especially
bite the capacity that Russia has to continued biting this
wall as it now is calling up reserves. As the
war becomes increasingly unpopular, and as Russia's economy continues to tank,

(09:51):
I think they are no longer paying back international debt
gets there, it becomes fascinating in the geopolitical and what
will the role of countries like Iran even China be,
for example, in supplying Russia with possible So Iran already
supplies Russia with drones, So I guess they're sort of

(10:13):
the next part of that of who wants to be
with them openly be supporting Indeed, all those drones.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
They're causing a lot of trouble over there, And I
think at one stage they were saying, oh, no, those
drones were sent before the war, but it's now become
apparent that's not the case indeed, So I mean it's
a bad look for them to have been dealing with Russia.
But it's not doing Ukraine any good, is it? These
drones going over They've managed to kill a lot of
people so far.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yes, And I think Iran is sort of the the
of the opinion that we're already a pariah state with
the West. They're providing arliaments and drones to Russia. Is
not going to make us any more of a paria state.
So this is an opportunity for us to share exactly,
and then sort of my enemy's enemy is my friend
type of scene here. And I think I think in

(11:00):
some ways this is the same case with India, who
also continues to sort of buy Russian arms and continues
to buy a Russian energy as well. So the geo
politics have just remained fascinating.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
It's very confusing MH. Seventeen of course, which after the
murder of thirty eight Australians on board along with a
whole bunch of other people, this going to soon after
many years, be some sort of a handing down of
a verdict. What are we expecting there?

Speaker 3 (11:28):
So there will be a handing There's a report that
the verdict will be handed down in a court, a
Dutch court in the Hague, where four people are three
Russians and a Ukrainian has been tried in absentia and
have been blamed for the for the attack on seventeen

(11:54):
and then facts for firing the missile that shot it down.
The missile most intelligence and it's been confirmed that the
missile came from Russian back militia controlled don Bath. The
Russians refuse to hand over the suspects, they will most
likely be found guilty. It is unlikely, unfortunately, they will

(12:16):
serve any time in prison. But I think this here
is a some degree as much as it's not the
sort of the justice that especially the families of the
thirty eight Astralians would be looking for, there will be
some degree of closure I think post the post the
announcement from the Netherlands, either today or tomorrow, I'm fairly sure.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
So we're expecting individuals to be found guilty as opposed
to Russia as a state to be found guilty of this.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Indeed, so this is a court that's unable to sow
anything that would be finding Russia guilty of crimes would
be the International Court of Justice, a Dutch court, and
the way that this trial again three Russians, so Igor Grinken,
Sergo Dubinsky, Ole Kulatov, who were variously either members of

(13:06):
the military intelligence or Russian intelligence but also working for
the Ministry of Defense for the so called don Bats
militia and Leonard Leonard Kashenko who's the Ukrainian who was
also were a militiaman in twenty fourteen. So it will

(13:28):
be only those. But having said that, the Dutch court
has also alluded to the fact that they believe that
the orders for the attack came directly from the Ministry
of Defense and possibly also at the behest of the
Russian President Vladimir Pusin.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
So the escapegoats these individuals indeed very much so.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
But again the Russians are protecting them. They will not
hand them over. They have said that handing them over
would would release Russian military secrets, and it's the type
of language you would expect. But it's unlikely that they'll
serve any time in prison, especially especially in the Netherlands.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
The whole thing is just bizarre, isn't it, And talking bizarre,
He's back. Trump is back, He's decided he's going to
go again. People in the Republican Party going to go
for Trump or are they going to go for the
other guy. Ron just sent us he's the governor of Florida,
isn't he? Who are they going to pick?

Speaker 3 (14:28):
It's a really interesting one, and I don't know, so
I guess the announcement was no great surprise. The announcement
had all of the things that we expected from a
Trump announcement, some of the things that weren't. There were
notable or prominent Republicans at the launch. Trump's advantages that
he will get a lot of money, and money is

(14:49):
extraordinarily important in US elections. It's a really interesting one,
I sense, and again this is me crystal balling, and
much of this could go wrong. The Republican Party is
deeply divided, I think after the midterms in which a
number of high profile Trump endorsed candidates didn't win seats
that they were expected to win. And here I'm talking

(15:11):
especially Senate seats in Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Georgia as well.
I think so pre prior to the midterms, I think
this was going to be when when that red wave
was expected, that this was going to be almost a
coronation of when Trump announced.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well, I think everyone's saying that this announcement was pretty
low key for a Trump announcement. It was pretty local.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Indeed, and it didn't and Trump. It didn't have the
energy of other Trump rallies and announcements either. It was
pretty flat. And he was flat too. I mean, I
love him or loath him, he is engaging in some respect.
This was really sort of again, very flat and unengaging.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
If he's run for this, that means somehow he can't be.
He can't he can't be dragged off to prison, on
to court and all the rest of it. For things
that all the allegations is that part of the plan here,
is that all it is? Does he just simply not
expect to get through but he's just on a bad time?
Is that something that mean? Does that sound right to

(16:20):
you or not?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
It's not that he can't be. It just makes it
harder to do it because why why does it.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Make it harder? How does it make it harder?

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Because it becomes then hyper political. It stops being legal.
If you arrest a candidate who is running for presidency,
that then stops being a solely legal issue. And then,
and so especially when, for example, under a Democrat administration,
when the Attorney general is a Democrat appointed position. When

(16:52):
it then so, so the fear is then that this
becomes partisan rather than legal. So if he wasn't running,
it becomes a whole lot easier to try him as
Joe's citizen rather than Donald Trump candidate for president of
the United States.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
So they were going to do it, Yeah, they should
have done it before he announced his running for this,
I guess if they were going to do anything.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
And this has been one of the criticisms of Merrick Garland,
who was the Attorney General. This has been that Garland
had to move before the midterms if he was going
to and especially on things such as the allegation that
he stole documents from the White House, especially on some
of the allegations that have come out of the January
sixth Committee. I understand Georgia are not moving fast on

(17:35):
accusations of voter fraud, but it does become much more
difficult to launch a legal case against the political candidate.
So it's not that him running protects him. And in fact,
even if he can, there is no protection under the
US Constitution for a fall fallons can run for.

Speaker 5 (17:54):
President of the United States.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, it's weird, isn't.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
It excluding, Yes, it is, it is so. But I
think you're right that this is. This is I think
a strategy to avoid prosecution. Whether whether prosecutors allow him
to sort of do it is another story.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
How bizarre, How bizarre? Yeah, how bizarre.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Just my fear is that even if he even if
he doesn't win, he's going to create a lot of
chaos and carnage on the way. I think the Republican Party,
while it might not be the party of Trump, they
have adopted a lot of his ideas, and I think
what they might be looking for is someone with his
ideas but without all of the trouble that comes with it.

(18:37):
And in that way, in that respect, Ron de Sanders
is that person. But we saw what Donald Trump does
two opponents in.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Debates them he shreds them. Yeah, he'll say out in
our lives, and people believe him because he says it
so well. Ron de Santos has been described as Trump Light,
which I don't know if that's a good thing for
him or a bad thing it anyway.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
He's a make America great candidate, but he does it
with a more subtle I mean, some people might remember,
for example, Ron de Santas was the person that flew
migrants refugees from Texas to Florida then to Martha's vineyard
to make a case about the poorest nature of the
US border. He does, he does these type of things.

(19:25):
I don't think he is the political performer that Trump is.
He's hugely popular in Florida. I mean, Florida is a
swim state, and anyone Florida in a cantor. So I
think there are other candidates we shouldn't forget as well.
Mike Pence, the former Vice president, will probably put his
hand up. There will be there will be other members

(19:46):
I think of the Nicky Hayley, former UN ambassador, will
probably put her hand up. So it's won't to be
just a two horse race, but I think it will
be around money and the Sanders and Trump, I think
have the best capacity to raise funds.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
Well.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
If tru time, he might not bother much. I guess
he might just go along with the go through with
the motions and not worry about it.

Speaker 6 (20:05):
Now.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
At the launch, Gina ryanha, what the hell was she
doing there?

Speaker 3 (20:09):
I saw this and I haven't heard. I saw the
pictures of this, and now it's in the papers and
there was no announcement. I don't think there's been anything
on her on her web page. I don't think she
I don't know if she was invited.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I thought you were going to say she may have
not wanted anyone to know she was there.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Well, yeah, but she's a fairly high profile public figure.
I don't think you can do. And the army photo
I'm in the photo that that revealed her was there
was actually she was in the background of a photo
with one of the Trump's sums and his wife. So yeah,
when we talk about sort of the high theater of

(20:48):
Donald Trump, I think this sort of fits into that
category of high.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
It's just weird. I just don't know where that one
fits in anyway. All right, look backtracking before I let
you go, I'm just going to ask you this. It's
probably a question that's way too early in the whole
piece of this. But going back to Russia Ukraine, is
there going to be reparations for Ukraine out of this.
Russia is never going to agree to pay anything back
to Ukraine. It's going to be up to the rest
of the world, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
It is, But I think there's also a case there
is a scenario that I play out with some of
my colleagues at the university, where there is perhaps a
change of administration in Russia, that there is a Western
at least someone who is sympathy the West, becomes president.

(21:34):
Putin is over thrown that there is a scenario in
which they are offered money to help rebuild Ukraine, but
on the proviso, for example, that they hand over indict
it war criminals to an international tribunal. So I think
there is plus. I mean, there's also the opportunity, for example,

(21:54):
to freeze accounts on a variety of things in that way.
But no, it will not be purely out of the
good nature of Russia for spending the money to rebuild.
And Angelinski has said, I mean there have been talks
about a Ukraine Marshall Plan. We are talking that sort
of size of investment with the amount of infrastructure that

(22:16):
has been destroyed during his war.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Gosh, it's a complicated thing all round. And who who
however this ends, it's not going to end well, I
don't suppose it's just as long as it ends quicker.
Are you surprised that Putin's still kicking honestly?

Speaker 3 (22:32):
No, No, the nature of his regime and his so
I mean, I understand that sort of assessing his health
has become a sort of a cottage industry. But the
degree of his control over the political apparatus, the media,
popular sentiment in Russia is quite extraordinary. He is a

(22:54):
modern totalitarian, and so with respect to his ability to
remain in power, no, I'm not surprised. It's because of
the control and absolute control that he has over so
many of the leaders of power in this there was
a fraudient sleep I'm going to say Soviet Union.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
He wants it back, that he wants it back, he
wants it back, but it's not going to happen. Richard
just said he's the Trump of Russia. So there you go.
I don't know where well that's entirely true or not,
but anyway, it probably is. Look, I'll tell you what it's.
It's the unfolding and I'm reckoning. It's going to go
on for a fair bit longer, I'm sure, and you'll
be following it. Absolutely. We'll talk again down the track

(23:31):
ahead of Politics and International Relations at Utah School of
Social Sciences. Matt Killingsworth, thanks for your time this morning.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
This is as many of your talks coming up to
half past nine.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Listen live at Tasmania talks dot com.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Donau on the line right now. Once again, it's been
so long. Greg Barnes, Hello again, Good morning on we
keep meeting like this. People are going to talk, you know,
they will, they will, they will. Look, I tell you what,
there's been a few everyone's too talking about Ashley at
the moment, but it seems to be it's closing in
twenty twenty four. And something that I didn't ask you

(24:07):
on Monday less was what the hell happens to all
the people in there? There's ten people in there at
last count. What happens to them?

Speaker 5 (24:14):
Well, the idea of the government was to set up
in the north and south of the state centers which
actually deal with trouble young people so that we can
steer them out of the criminal justice system quickly, more quickly.
And that means you know, making sure they're close to family,
making sure they're close to psychological support services, and you know,

(24:38):
supports in trying to plug them back into education, into skills.
In other words, the sort of wrap around services you
need because we know that you know, simply punishing kids
just does not work well.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
The fact the fact that it's out in the open
there in the middle of practically nowhere, is not good.
I mean, I've heard stories of people. I've had stories
of people that have been in there. They've come to
the end of the thing, that's time to go home,
and they just get stuck outside on the road and
they have to try and work their way back to
Devinport or Loncester or wherever they're from. It's miles well.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
And also one of the problems is getting for example,
psychologists and psychiatrists who work with these kids to get
them to go there. And that's no criticism of them.
They've got their own practices. They've then got to drive there.
You know, they're not all sitting there in Delaraine. One
of the problems with Ashley has been that successive governments
have been told to close it. They've kept it open
for one reason, one reason only. It's been an employment

(25:30):
scheme for Delaraine. Now that's no criticism of the people
who work there. It's no criticism of the people in Delaraine.
But you don't run a youth justice center just because
you want to employ twenty five or thirty people from
the local town should not be the basis upon which
you run it.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Well, Roger Yen, she was. I asked him just a
while ago the other day about how many people are
actually working there, and I think he said kind of
about fifteen, although it seems to be up and down
because they're having trouble funding people to work there. And
I wondered why that would be the case.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
Well, that's certainly been an issue for some time, and
I think made worse by virtue of the fact that
people just don't want to work there. I mean, people
are saying the place is going to close. It's a
discredited model. I'd be interested in working with kids in
an environment which is safer for kids but also is

(26:21):
near urban centers. I mean, you know, to have I
mean to have a youth justice center stuck out in
the middle of nowhere, which effectively it is. It was
an extraordinary move in the first place, but I think
the major concern is that the minister can't guarantee that
these kids will remain safe between now in twenty twenty four.
To have the government being mentioned in dispatches in the

(26:45):
United Nations this week is not a good look. And
you know, the government I've never understood why the government's
going to take three years to close it because we're
talking about such a small number of kids. If you're
talking about two or three hundred people understand, but you're
talking about at the moment the minister saying ten children. Now,

(27:08):
you know, we move heather on earth to get football
matches here, we move heaven on earth to do other
things that we want in Tasmania. These are the most
vulnerable members of our society and we need to fix
things quickly.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's been there a long time and it's going to
be there for a couple more years. I suppose. Do
we know what sort of problems are cause putting somebody
in there? I mean, if you are.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
Well, well, I mean the problem is you've got one
hundred percent graduation rate to Risdon and I'm not exaggerating.
So if you end up in Ashley, which is yeah,
if you end up in Ashley, which is the last
option for a sentencing magistrate or judge, you are pretty
well guaranteed to end up in Risdon.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
You're on the road.

Speaker 5 (27:48):
Now. The reason for that is because you know, either
you've been let down by the system or there's been
a bunch of reasons why you've ended up in Ashleigh,
but you not going to get the support and the networks.
And there are many, many reasons for that. But firstly,
it's a punitive model. I mean, the fact is that
you've got kids locked in their rooms for periods of

(28:09):
time now because of a shortage of stuff. Now the
government can dress that up by saying, oh, well that's okay,
we look up to these kids. That is a punit
of models and it's not working. Now. People will say
to me, oh, well, you know, you don't want to
be too soft on these kids. Actually, it's harder for
the kids and it's harder for workers to work with
them in an intense fashion and simply shunting them off

(28:30):
to Ashley. And if you want to reduce crime, the
best way to do it is to work with these
kids on giving them opportunities in life so that they
don't continue to head down the path that they've always
continued from Ashley, and that is down the road to risdam.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
I mister Yench before he I asked him about the
time in their room and he said that it was
to try and stop them from fighting. Is that a
good reason or is that just pointing it lack of staff.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
Well, I don't know where he's getting his briefings from
the fact that the government is saying the best we
can do is to keep kids in their room because
we want to stop them fighting just tells you how
derelict mister Gensy is when it comes to his duty
of care.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
I mean, you know he ought to.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
Be saying I'm not going to tolerate that as an answer.
Do better, and if it means, for example, removing kids
from actually then remove them. I mean why are they there?
I mean some of them are there on remand in
other words, they're there because they haven't got bail. Let's
get smarter about you know, is there a safer place
for these children while they await their cases, you know,

(29:37):
in terms of secure accommodation, etc. It's simply not good
enough for the minister to continue to tread water and
to say, as as he's said to you, you know,
well we've got to stop them fighting, so we just
keep them in their rooms is an extraordinary statement in
this day and.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Age, considering it's a controlled environment. Should ROGERI. Yenchby in
a position to absolutely get guarantee the safety of these kids.
I asked him a few times, yes or no? Are
they safe? And he wouldn't quite say they were safe
in a controlled environment. Should that be easy to answer?

Speaker 5 (30:10):
Of course? Of course, of course it should, And you
are right to ask the question. And the fact that
he answered in the way that he didn't prevaricate it
was extraordinary. Again, he's got a duty of care at
the state, not personally, but he's got a duty of
care as minister, as has the state to keep these
children safe. To say I can't guarantee it is an
admission of failure and a dangerous admission of failure, because

(30:31):
what's he's saying, Look, you know something terrible happens, then
you know I warned you that I couldn't really keep
them safe. So the government's got to be saying absolutely,
we'll keep them safe. And if that means we have
to remove kids from Ashley and put them into safer
environments and will do that quickly, then so be it.
It has to be done.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
This model seems to be all over Australia where you
had images of that boy in Darwin in the spithood
and all that sort of stuff, and there was more
footage of another kid being dragged out of a door,
which was even the footage was terrible. You could see
what was going on and the kid walked out of
the door completely unaware of what was going to happen,
and suddenly he was on the ground. What the hell
are we doing?

Speaker 5 (31:10):
So we've got a serious problem in this country. We've
got Banksy hell over in Western Australia, which is a disaster.
We've got don Dale which continues to spark a royal commission.
We've got Ashley here, We've had routine problems in Victoria.
We've got a serious problem with the model we use,
which effectively is a jail model. It's a primitive jail

(31:31):
model for vulnerable young kids. And we continue to get
national and international exposure of the brutality and violence of
these places and what they're doing to kids. It does,
I think require at this point now on national leadership.
It's time for the federal government to step up and
say let's get the states and territories together. Yes, you're
responsible for this, but we've got a crisis.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
After a four Corners expert, we had a Royal commission.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
We did have a Royal commission on Dondale, but that
was about That was a Northern Territory response, funded and
essentially driven by the federal government.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
But what we.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
Need is a nationwide examination of how we're doing this,
because it's not just a question of the media exposure.
It's the damage that's being done. And I've acted for
and worked with people who are now, say nineteen twenty
twenty one, who've been in those situations, and they are damaged.
And it's not a question of you know, lawyer's ambulance changing.

(32:26):
They are damaged people, and therefore they're much more vulnerable
or much more likely to enter into the criminal entering
into the criminal justice system, which means, of course the
community is less safe. So we need a national strategy
on it.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
New South Wales just a while ago they had those inspections.
I think the UN carried out inspections New South Wales
and another state, was it Northern Territory wouldn't even allow
them to come in and have a look. What are
they trying to hide something or what?

Speaker 5 (32:52):
Of course they are, of course they are. They don't
want the exposure. I mean, you know when countries like
China do that, we say that's shocking, that's terrible. I
want to let the un in well, we've got state
governments in Australia doing exactly the same, refusing to be accountable,
and particularly in the case of the Northern Territory, just
extraordinary that after the Royal Commission and the international outrage

(33:13):
over Dondale, not only is the place still going, but
we saw on four corners, you know, on Monday night
that the ongoing problems at Dondale which the state government,
the territory government has simply done nothing about. And again,
you know you're talking about you're talking about our future here,
you're talking about a bunch of kids who represent the

(33:34):
future of our society, part of the future of our
society and smart justice. So it's not soft or hard
smart justicees. Let's get let's let's get them out of
the criminal justice system. What do we have to do
to do that. Let's try things, but let's do it
in a human way, because that's usually the way you
get the best results.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
To fix this, the federal government, you reckon, should step in.
What should they do?

Speaker 5 (33:56):
Well, they need to, as they sometimes do in relation
to national issues, get state and territory ministers around the
table and said we've got to form a national strategy.
There's got to be and this is not just about
one territory or one state. This is a systemic problem
around Australia and we need a national strategy. We need
to have standards, We need to move away from the

(34:16):
current unit of model and we need to look at
that and do that on a nationwide basis.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
We've done it with mental.

Speaker 5 (34:23):
Health for example, where the commonwealths played a large role
as you know, in mental health strategies around Australia. We've
done it in other areas of policy and it's sorely
needed in relation to vulnerable children in the justice system.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
All right, well, I guess we'll just sit back and
watch and wait and see what they do. If indeed
they do anything, hopefully something will come of it. Pretty well.

Speaker 5 (34:43):
Thanks, I mean you've done a great job with this
story this week because I think and you know, getting
the Minister to discuss the matter, I think it's the
first step, but you've highlighted the inadequacies of the issues.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
So well, well, hopefully we'll get it out there and
people will keep talking. People tend to move on fairly,
and with Christmas coming up exactly, Greg Barns, thank you
very much. Again for chatting and we'll talk again down
the track. Have a good one, much appreciated.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
That's Greg Barns list alive at Tasmania Talks dot com dot.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Au on the line. Right now. We have the Federal
member for Bass bridget Arn't you Good morning?

Speaker 4 (35:19):
Hello Aaron? How are you?

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I'm all right, Tom, all right? Where are you calling for? Well,
we're calling you, but where are you at the moment?
Are you in Tasmania? Are you on the mainland.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
I am at beautiful Bridport this morning. Got a bit
of morning up in the northeast today, So talking to
you from Bridport where it's amazing. If if anyone's got
the day off, head the Bridport, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
It's a good spot to be blue skies we've got
I've got a few clouds, but it's looking good. Tell
you what before I'd move on. Just something that's come
through just a while ago. You may or may not
be able to fix this. I don't know what your
what your connections are like. We had a lady called Fiona.
She called and she's in public housing and she has
nice stove. It's your department. Can you fix this for her?

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Well?

Speaker 4 (36:03):
I can certainly have a guy. It's not my department,
department person, I probably know the person whose.

Speaker 7 (36:09):
Department it is.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
Yeah, the owner would like to ring my office six
double three four seven zero double three and we'll see
what we can do to help.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
She's got the turkey already to go, but she reckons
she's not going to even be able to cook it
by Christmas, which is a worry. So she's been promised
and promised for this damn stove and it hasn't eventuated.
Apparently they're waiting for it to come from the mainland.
Don't we have stoves in Tasmania.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
You think we might.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah, it's a bit of it.

Speaker 7 (36:37):
Yeah, give us a call.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
We'll see if we can help.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
You out there. We go look at that. Maybe we've
fixed it. Parliament is resuming very soon. You're looking forward
to it?

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Ah, Yeah? Back to back to Canberra next week for
the final two sitting weeks of the year, and still
quite a bit ahead of us for the rest of
the year. Notably, and of being interest in particular to me,
will be the introduction of the legislation for a federal
Anti Corruption Commission.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
What do you think of the new model which is
kind of the old model with a few changes that
have got a few people riled up. What's your thoughts?

Speaker 4 (37:15):
Yeah, look, I think overall it's a pretty good bill.
I think that there will be you know, some and
the committee report that has come back has really achieved
sort of generally multi party support, which is very important.
And I've always said that we have to have an
anti corruption commission that is not political. You know, as

(37:39):
soon as it becomes politicized, then it's failed at the
first test because people can't trust it. So it's important
that you know, it's broadly accepted, and it does seem
that we have a model that has that broad support.
There will be some you know, arguing around the edges.
I think around things like public hearing for examples.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
That's the sticking. What do you think about that? What's
your what's your opinion?

Speaker 4 (38:06):
Well, I think it is critically important that there is
a capacity for the Commission to hold public hearings, which
there is in the current bill. I think that in
my view, this idea of exceptional circumstances might be going
a bit too far, and I think that my preference

(38:27):
would be that that public hearings are conducted in the
in the public interests. So I think those will be
the types of the debate that will expect to see
in the next week or so as that legislation comes through.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Do you risk upsetting your side of politics by saying
that out loud? Well, been there, done that already.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
Yeah, okay, it's not no one their votes for me.
The people who vote for me a right here in
Northern Tasmania, and it's always my job to put their
interest first.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
That's how it goes. Do you think Peter Dutton and
crew will vote for this if that exceptional circumstances for
public hearings is scraped out of the bill?

Speaker 4 (39:12):
Look, I think what that they're trying to do and
they're not alone on this. In fact, the government is
also in favor of the exceptional circumstances clause. And I
can see that what they are trying to do is
to provide some layers of protection for people's personal reputation.
And that's important as well. And we have seen some

(39:34):
terrible outcomes at times out of these sort of bodies
where people are falsely accused or are later found to
have been cleared, but they have had reputational damage on
the way through and there's some very tragic stories of
people self harming and suiciding as a result of these
anti corruption bodies. So it is important to make sure

(39:56):
that there are protections for people, and I confident that
within the legislation there are some layers of protection to
guard against that. But I can see that that's what
they're trying to do additionally with the exceptional circumstances, But
my view is that that's a bit of a step
too far and not necessarily necessary, because the discretion will

(40:21):
sit with the commissioner to make it, to make it
weather in the public interest anyway.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yep, it's hard to get that balance, right. I guess
if you completely make it private and secret, I guess
then you run the risk that once something begins, if
somebody outside of the system doesn't know that something is
going on, if they've got information to add to a
certain investigation, they won't know that they even should be
speaking up. If that makes sense, I think, yes.

Speaker 7 (40:50):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
But I think it's also about the public having trust
in the institution itself. They want to be able to
say that it's as transparent as possible and has that accountability,
and that's important. But there are also other ways to
achieve that, and in this case there'll be you know,
a commissioner, an inspector, there's parliamentary oversight. And I think

(41:12):
the really important part is that the legislation will be
subject to a review in five years time, so it
will give a chance for it to begin its work
and to then be reviewed and see where those gaps
or things might be. So I think all of those

(41:33):
safeguards are important.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
What does Helen Haynes think of the thing? Because she's
been working on this for years. Is she happy with
the final result?

Speaker 6 (41:41):
Now?

Speaker 4 (41:42):
I think, you know, And I can't speak obviously for Helen,
but I work quite quite closely with her, and you know,
I think she shared some of the concerns that I
have around exceptional circumstances, for example, and the other sort
of critical piece of the puzzle, which sits outside of

(42:04):
the legislation itself under some other legislation, but which I
understand may come forward as well, and is a particular
concern of Helen's and of mine, is around protections for
whistle blowers as well. People need to have confidence that
if they come forward to give information about corruption, for example,

(42:25):
that that they are protected in doing that, and we
do not currently have strong protections for whistle blowers, so
that's also important part.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
We take them to court, don't we. That's what we
do with whistle blowers at the moment. It's I'm not
sure how you can change that.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
Well, I think you need to have protections because otherwise
people don't don't come forward, and then if they're not
coming forward, then the Commission is not able to do
to do its job.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Do you think people generally there's a horrible question to ask,
but do people generally think the politicians corrupt? What do
you reckon?

Speaker 4 (43:02):
I don't know that people think that they're corrupt, and
you know, all the evidence shows that corruption, genuine corruption
is at low levels in Australia. But I think that
there's a whole sort of spectrum of behavior that people consider,
you know, to be lacking in integrity all the way

(43:23):
through to corruption. And I think it's fair to say
that people, you know, don't rate politicians as the most
trusted profession going around, and I think that's both disappointing
but also it's very important to change it because we
need communities to have trust and confidence in elected officials

(43:47):
and public officials. Because we often have to give them
really important information. I think the pandemic has demonstrated that.
You know, if people don't have trust and confidence in
their elected officials, you know that they're not they're not
going to have confidence in the information that's been provided
as well. So it's all very very important.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
I think that's definitely a case of the moment because
some of what they're saying doesn't really make sense. But anyway,
it's the politics is becoming too apparent rather than the health.
I think that, and.

Speaker 4 (44:21):
I think people want to have trust and confidence, you know,
in the people that they represent, and certainly as an
elected representative, I want people to have trust and confidence
in me so that we can help, you know. That's
the bottom line.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah, that's it. Well, we've had lots of people that have, yeah,
added to that list of people that can't be trusted.
I suppose over the years people that have been found goody,
the idiobeads and all those I guess, so that just
reinforces it. The workplace bill, that's another one that labor
are hoping to get through. They've got a lot of
stuff to get through in a pretty short length of time.
How do you reckon that's going.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Look, I think they've still got a bit of work
to do in the Senate and and certainly I know
Senator Lambi and Senator Tyrrell have some concerns, as does
Senator Pocop And you know that that will be debated,
I imagine in the Senate in these next next few weeks.
I think that you know, the government and I spoke

(45:24):
when I spoke on it in the House. You know,
Whilst I think everybody supports the aims of the bill
to create more secure work and increase pay for people,
nobody would would argue with that. I think it is
important to make sure that you take your time and
get the balance right with some of those things and

(45:44):
try to avoid any unintended consequences as well.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
What do you see as an unintended consequence? What what
risks are here?

Speaker 4 (45:53):
Look, I think that there are risks in relation to
additional pressures on particularly small business, and that seems to
be one of the particular sticking points that people have
consistently raised in opposition.

Speaker 7 (46:08):
To the bill.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
At a time when obviously the economy is quite challenged,
it's a difficult space for workers but also for businesses
as well, and you know, I wouldn't want to say
in a situation where as I said in my speech,
you know, if you achieve higher wages but you don't

(46:29):
have a job that can probably conserves out.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Is it the definition of what a small business is
as according to the bill? Is that the problem? Because
I think at the moment it's twenty five staff and
I think David Pocock is arguing that they should be higher.
What do you reckon that?

Speaker 4 (46:44):
I think that's right, and I think it's an additional
burden on businesses that you know, don't have often a
capacity to cope with more a greater regulatory burden for example.
So yeah, I think the size of small business and
that was an issue that was consistently raised in the

(47:05):
debate in the Lower House as well as well as
things like the multienployer bargaining, and those seem to be
some of the more contentious points that I think, certainly
send a Pocock and others are now turning their mind
to with.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Only I think it's fourteen percent of people in Australia
in a union, would it really become as you guys
are saying, not you guys, but the Liberal Party you know,
like a mass striking event. I mean, it's not likely
to get to that, is it.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Look, I would hope not.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
I would hope not. Would I don't think about it.
It would be necessarily, you know, in anyone's best interest
to see more sort of strike action and things like that.
You know, unions play an important role, and I'm not
going to go out bashing unions. You know, I see
the gooodwork that you insue for work is in our community.

(48:04):
And I was, I was getting my own speech. You know,
I've worked in casual and in secure work all of
my all of my working life, mostly in hospitality, and no,
I do understand that challenge both as a worker and
also you know the challenges that small business owners face
as well. You know, it's not an fix, and it's

(48:26):
important to get on and do that work, but you
know it needs to be done diligently and in good faith.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
In my opinion, I keep seeing graphs everywhere and it
sort of shows the amount of money that companies are
making versus the amount of money that people are taking home.
And I wonder whether these graphs are skewed somehow because
of well, the gas would be one that would would
come to mind straight away. But there's a lot of
really big companies making a lot of money. Are they

(48:54):
skewing this sort of thing? Do you think small businesses
are in a position to pay more? I suppose that's
the question.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Yes, I mean, I think there's such a lot of
variability amongst businesses, the size of the businesses, the sectors
they operate in. You know, it's not a it's not
a homogeneous landscape, and so of course that makes it
difficult to make policies to fit everyone, you know, because
they're not all all the same.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
But of course.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Businesses at the moment, like everybody else, like all all
of the population, are having increased costs as well, you know,
and supply issues, and we're still sort of feeling the
effects of the pandemic as much as anything else. So
it's a it's a difficult time. And I think to add,

(49:44):
you know, additional layers of regulation on top of some
of those quite small businesses might be the straw that
bakes the camel's back, and that that's the type of
thing that I think we just need to be mindful
of as we go through. It's not to say that
you shouldn't do should booth things. You just have to
make sure that you're listening and are adjusting as you

(50:07):
go if something comes up that you haven't for.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Seen, just trying and foresee all of things. Something else
that I looked at just a while ago, and it's
a bit of a worry. It's in the news in
regards to COP twenty seven in Egypt, which is just
finished up, and they've got a Climate Change Performance Index
which apparently ranks countries as far as their climate change.

(50:32):
We're ranked fifty five out of a list of sixty three,
which is pretty bad, mainly because of our obsession with
developing new colon gas projects. What's your opinion on that.
I mean, we're doing this forty three percent that the
government keep talking about is probably at the low end
of what's necessary. But we have this obsession with colon gas.

(50:55):
How can we stop that? How can we get around that?

Speaker 4 (51:00):
I suppose my opinion would be it's not going to
get any easier to deal with it. The longer you
take to deal with it, you know, the problems going
going to persistent, and it'll probably get harder to deal
with if you don't make steps forward to address that.
To transition to take the action that you need to make.

(51:22):
So yes, I mean we all accept that we have
had and to continue to have, you know, a reliance
on colon gas, were export colon gas and other resources
and and all of that is well and good, but
you need to start to take those steps to to

(51:44):
do what you can to address this global climate challenge
that we all that we all face, and Australia has
to play its path in that along with the rest
of the world. And we can't continue to just kind
of kick the can down the road because the climates
emergency will get worse and the problem of transition will

(52:06):
not get any easier the longer you delay.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
We keep hearing this, I quote ten years of inaction,
surrounded by people who were involved in that ten years
of inaction. Is it hard to say that out loud?

Speaker 4 (52:23):
Yeah? Look, I mean, as I said, you know, I
never shy away from a difficult conversation, and I have
been quite open and on the record previously saying you know,
I think that we need to do more. I think
we should have already have done more. But we shouldn't
wait now.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
To begin.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
We shouldn't be you know, we shouldn't be looking backwards
either you know, I think that's not necessarily helpful, true
or otherwise, you know, it's just not helpful. What we
need to do is start now and take the action
that's required to urgently address this issue.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Have you got any ideas as far is what we
can do from right now?

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Well, I think we can. What we need to do
is start by you know, and we've talked about before.
Put the climate wars aside, stop talking about the ideology
of it. I think we need to accept and have
broad acceptance of the problem, and if there's debate to
be had, then you know, maybe it's on how we
get there, but not on where we're going. And I

(53:24):
think we're still arguing about where we should be going.
And I think it's time to put that aside and
be able to come to the discussion in a pragmatic,
solutions driven way, you know, across the political device in
your life, because you know that caravan has moved on
and the world just cannot wait so our action.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
You sounding like a Greenie. I was going to say,
you're in the wrong party. I don't know how I
keep saying that, bridget Actia, you're in the wrong party.
I'm not sure where you fit in there. You don't
fit into any of them, do you.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Well, it's interesting, you know that I sort of have
also previously said, you know, the care for the environment
is actually in the Liberal Party's statement of beliefs. You
know that we care for the environment for future generations.
So I think it holds absolutely to those values. And
that's not necessarily inconsistent with business and industry. And I

(54:23):
think that it's amitt to suggest that that it is.
And in fact, business and industry are doing more than
government when it comes to looking at how they can
can transition, including here in Tasmania. You know, people like
Belvaleluminium for example. You know, they are miles ahead in

(54:45):
terms of looking at their you know, their carbon reduction
plans and things like that. So it's not inconsistent. And
I think that's what I mean about the climate laws
and the ideology. You know, it's not an either or proposition.
You know, it is possible to support jobs, to support

(55:08):
business and industry, and to look after the environment and
decarbonize at the same time.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
We can have it all with power prices going up,
inflation about to hit. How do you reckon Christmas is
going to look for the average person in Bass hopefully,
hopefully Fiona will have a stove. But for the rest
of us, how do you reckon that's going to look?

Speaker 4 (55:30):
Yeah, look, I think it's already a difficult time for
many people right across the country, and here in Northern
Tasmania no different, you know. And I'm sort of talking
to people every day and hearing stories about how they
are already sort of having difficulty coping. We really still

(55:51):
have this very urgent housing issue and terrible stories of
people living in really terrible conditions, and more needs to
be done to address that issue, as well as those
border cost of living issues.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
And you know, should the federal government be doing more
the state government? Every time they talk about the lack
of housing and people living in cars and people living
in the park and stuff. Whenever they start talking, it
always starts with in months or years. It's never instant.
We need something fairly instant. It is the federal government.
Do you think able to deliver something quicker than what

(56:33):
the state keeps suggesting?

Speaker 4 (56:36):
I think it's part of the challenge is that it
is very difficult to obviously, you know, build houses, more houses,
increase supply, you know, at the snap of your fingers.
That obviously does take time, but I think that's cold
comfort to somebody who's currently fleeking with their family and
a can New.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
South Wales government. New South Wales government I saw on
TV had a stack of odds they called them. They're
just basically transportable houses. I suppose why are we not
looking at something like that?

Speaker 4 (57:08):
Yeah, look, I think it's a good question. And you know,
I think there needs to be a view to short
and medium and longer term solutions. And I think government
has certainly turned its mind to the longer term solutions
and maybe some of the medium term solutions, but I
think that there does need to be some greater work

(57:29):
done on some of those short term solutions. And it's
not just as simple as putting somebody in a you know,
in a pod or whatever. People have got, you know,
different family circumstances, and I think importantly you still need
to make sure that people are afforded you know, human

(57:49):
bignessy and other supports that they need as.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Well to I know, I know if people living in
the park and living in caves, that's probably that's not
human dignity at all. That's just horrible.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
No, it's not. But I think, you know, the solution
is not necessarily, you know, just to put them somewhere
to set and forget, if you know what I mean. Like,
I think that there needs to be we need to
find a short term accommodation options for people, but we also,
in my view, need to provide additional sort of resourcing

(58:27):
for those other supports, social supports and other things that
people need because they're often vulnerable not just due to
lack of housing, but also whole range of other things,
former disability, domestic violence. It needs to be more of

(58:47):
that support as well.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Each person's got a story. But I'm hearing more and
more people that are actually working, living in their cars,
and you know what I mean, They're not the traditional
people that you would think of when you think of
a homeless person. They're people who are going to school,
they're going to work, but there's nowhere to live, so
they're in their cast. It's a worry. Chris andipass I
took to him a while ago on here from Ozzie Homelands,

(59:10):
and he was saying that probably by about Christmas is
when we're going to see the first wave of people
falter on their mortgages because the interest rates have gone up,
and he reckons. Just before Christmas or around Christmas is
about when it's going to kick in and people are
going to actually have to just get out of their houses.
So this problem in the next month or so may

(59:30):
actually get worse.

Speaker 4 (59:32):
Yes, I think it's been something of a bit of
a perfect storm in terms of availability of housing, intrast
rates going up, other cost of living pressures, and a
whole range of sort of things impacting. I would say
to people, anybody that's listening that he's got any concerns
about that, for example, you know, don't leave it to

(59:53):
reach out for help as well, you know, reach out
to your financial institutions, reach out new utility companies, all
of those sorts of things like the sooner that you
can get ahead of it, you know, people are there
to help and assist you, just don't leave it too late,
I think would be my advice to people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
There's a lot of people. Right at the end, just
before I let you go, I've just had a message
put through here from Richard who's in the other room
doing stuff. He's saying that apparently counselors in New South
Wales are looking at three D printed houses. Have you
ever heard of those?

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
I have heard of this, yes, and some of the
tiny house options as well. You know, so they are
not necessarily a long term solution for people. But I
do think that we need to be more creative and
more innovative in finding, you know, and implementing short term solutions,

(01:00:51):
emergency solutions for people while we're building new housing stock
and those sorts of things, which is all great, but
people who are living in their tents now can't wait, can't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Wait for the long term solutions. Absolutely. Yeah, So Richard
just said that apparently there's a bunch of them or
a couple of them in Dubbo at the moment, so
they must be pretty new. So I don't know how
you three D printer house. I can't picture it, but
obviously it can be done. How interesting, bridget ARCHI I'll
let you get back to whatever it was you're doing.
What are you going to be doing this morning? You're
going to be just looking back at the ocean, at

(01:01:24):
the beach there or what are you going to be doing? Well?

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
That would be very nice, and I have enjoyed looking
at that view while I've been.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Talking, sitting there looking at bridge for a beach.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
Yes I am, but I'm headed off to Branks Home
first and then back to Scott's. I've got a few meetings,
but I will be doing a mobile office from about
twelve thirty outside the Cottage Bakery at scott Stars. So
anyone up there wants to come and say hello, he's
got an issue like with their stoves. You come down

(01:01:58):
and see me. I'll be happy to have it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Come and have a winge to Bridget Archer. Excellent stuff, yeah,
she said, come winge, winge complain here, Bridget Archer, whinging. Welcome, absolutely,
you come with your gripes, Bridget Archer. I federal remember
for Bess. Thanks for your time this morning. It's been terrific.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
Norine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Listen live at Tasmania Talks dot com dot au.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
It is to as many a Talks and twenty two
to eleven will They say that one of the things
in life that you don't get trained for, you just
get lobbed with, is becoming a parent. For other jobs,
you need lots of training to become a good parent.
You just have to work it out for yourself. But
Triple P International Carrie Marquis Dodds is on the line,
and she has a few hints and tips on how

(01:02:42):
to be a parent and exactly what does it take
to be a good parent?

Speaker 6 (01:02:45):
Gid A Carol, Good morning, Ellen, how are you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
I'm very well. I'm not a parent, though I have
no idea, but I see other parents and there's suddenly
there's suddenly parents and they think, oh my goodness, what
am I going to do? What do they do? Most people?
Most people seem to work it out for themselves. But
it's a long slog, isn't it.

Speaker 6 (01:03:04):
It is a long slog, And we go to lessons
to learn how to burst a baby, but we then
are sent home with our little bundle of joy and
not necessarily given the tips and advice that we need,
especially in those early months when sleeping and crying patterns
are going to be front and center for most parents,

(01:03:25):
And how do we respond and support our baby during
those times?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Will you give it to their grandparents, don't you?

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
Well, it's great if you've got that support network, and
families do much better when they do have a family
and support network to help them, because it's exhausting those
first few months. But the good news is that there
is proven, practical strategies available to support parents. We don't
want parents to go through the trial and error and
struggle by themselves. Who want them to know that there

(01:03:53):
are proven tips and they can get online twenty four
to seven now with our online Triple P programs some
tips that might help them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Okay, So, just looking through some of the research that
you've done, I can see here that sixty seven percent
of parents struggle with time management. Forty three percent of
parents admit to being unsure of action to take when
children are misbehaving. Gosh, I guess a lot of this
comes down to the child. I guess if the child's

(01:04:22):
really annoying, I guess it would be harder. I guess
fifty one percent of concerned about their children reaching their
full potential, and thirty nine percent do not think their
children are performing at their optimum level. It's how do
you engauge these things if you're a parent.

Speaker 6 (01:04:36):
Yeah, it's really tricky. And what we're finding I guess
is there's a real lack of confidence among parents at
the moment, and they've probably been thrown for six a
bit over the last few years with the COVID pandemic.
Financial stress is now really impacting on adults.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
We've got.

Speaker 6 (01:04:53):
Natural weather events which are causing concern across the nation.
So when family or the adults are not feeling confident
in their own ability, then it's very hard for them
to be consistent and to also look after the needs
of other people, so their children. And when parents are
not confident, they waiver and children get the message that

(01:05:16):
some days it's okay to do this behavior and the
next day it's not okay. So when those expectations aren't
really clear, that's when children struggle as well. So if
we can help adults to take care of themselves and
the stresses that they're dealing with, then it's easier to
look after and support our children.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Do single parents have a harder job? I'm guessing things
like time management for a single parent that would be
much harder, wouldn't it.

Speaker 6 (01:05:39):
Yeah, Well, I guess every family has challenges because you've
got to fit in if you're on your own, or
if you've got extended family time with them, and if
you're working or not working, or extracurricular activities, if you've
got one child or six children, So there's always time
challenges that we're always juggling, and I think that's impacting
families a lot more than in previous decades. We're just

(01:06:02):
so busy. We've got so many things that we need
to get to and sometimes we forget to just slow
down talk to our children about what's happening and why
we're doing certain things, so that we're bringing them along
with us on all our daily activities.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
What makes a good parent.

Speaker 6 (01:06:18):
Our good parents are warm and nurturing, loving, and their
responsive to their children, so when their children comes to
you with a need, we're able to stay calm and
support them, taking interest in what they're doing. And the
other part of it is that we're really consistent and
have clear limits and expectations for our children's behavior.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Okay, so that sums it up. And what makes a
good child? That's the other thing too, I guess is
there a definition of a good child or is that variable?

Speaker 6 (01:06:48):
What we're really looking for for children is to give
them the skills that they're going to need to do
well in life. And one of the key things we
know nowadays is resilience and that ability to boun back
and get back up when you get knocked down or
you get disappointed, and so that ability to cope with
life's ups and downs. That's a really important factor for

(01:07:09):
children's life success. And then obviously children who are confident
and able to look after themselves that they're resilient, confident
and confident, that would be fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
That would be That would be what you would order
if you could kick the boxes.

Speaker 6 (01:07:23):
That's right, And we have to work hard to get
to those to that outcome. It's not easy. It's a
daily activity. So, like we said though, now with Australian
Government funding, our Triple P online programs are freely available
across Tasmania, so all families with children under twelve. There's
a version specifically for families with babies and then one

(01:07:44):
for the preschooler and primary schoolers.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
So how do these work? You jump online and what
do you just put your concern in there? Or how
does it work? What do you see when you log on?

Speaker 6 (01:07:55):
Yeah, it's actually a modulized program on the wear. So
you register and then you start to write your own
little workbook and your own plan online about what it
is that you want to want to be changing and
looking at. So you're setting your own goals and then
each week you check back in and learn some more information.

(01:08:15):
There's video examples and little exercises for you to do,
and some practice activities. So it's over six to eight
weeks that you'd go through the modules, but you can
log on twenty four to seven, create your user name
and password and use whatever device you like, whether you're
on your smartphone, your.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
Tablet's computer, And this would answer some of those questions
I mean parents, If I was a parent, I would
be thinking to myself, should my kid be speaking now?
Or is he or she ahead or behind? Or am
I doing this right? Am I just causing confusion? You
know what I mean? Are the other questions that can be.

Speaker 6 (01:08:50):
Answer absolutely, So there's some information about developmental milestones, particularly
in that baby version, about what you should be expecting
from your little bub but they're not Also, the key
things that we find families asked about is establishing good
bedtime routines, establishing meal time routines, and getting out of

(01:09:10):
the door in the morning where everyone's calm and with
everything that they need.

Speaker 5 (01:09:14):
For the day.

Speaker 6 (01:09:15):
So there's certainly tips to help set up those activities
and routines, and they are things that when you're a
parent you'll realize they happen every day and every day
you've got to think what are we going to have
for dinner? And is there going to be a battle
or are we going to get through this? And then
what's the bedtime routine going to be? Like? Are we
all going to get to bed on time and get
the sleep that we need so we're ready for the
next day.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Some kids are just more energetic than other kids. Is
there some sort of tips that we can give to
parents now that would help with that? I mean, some
kids are just absolutely unstoppable and the parents. You can
see the parents when you go to the shop and
you can just see them. You think you haven't you
haven't had too much red cordial that stuff, just had
that fed through to me, and you can just see

(01:09:58):
that they are there wit say what can we do
for them right now?

Speaker 6 (01:10:03):
And I think it's really important. We have really sick
expectations that there's no such thing as a perfect child
who just stampsified their parent and does everything that they're told.
We'd be pro concerned that they're too anxious or too
compliant if that was the case. So we've got to
recognize that we all have our own temperaments, and we
all have our own history and other things that we
bring with us. But the key things are planning ahead,

(01:10:25):
letting our children know what's going to happen, where we're going, why,
how they can help you on that little outing that
you're going on. We can always engage children in finding
the vegamide and the corn flakes. Everyone can recognize those
key things on the shelves, and then working out what
sort of hayoff I guess or reward there is for

(01:10:46):
our children once we've done the activity that we have
to do, so we can go to the park, or
we can play a game or visit a special friend.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
So the key is bribery.

Speaker 6 (01:10:57):
Well it's not really bribery if we're needed to do
things that are pro social and cooperative, but there's certainly
this is what we need to do now, and this
is what you can look forward to when we've done
the jobs that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:10):
We have to do.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Excellent, all right, now, where do we fund all these courses?
Where do we look?

Speaker 5 (01:11:15):
Yees?

Speaker 6 (01:11:15):
So we can just jump online on our website which
is triple P t R I P, L E P
Hyphenparenting dot net dot au and just find the program
that suits your age group.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
And that's all there is to it.

Speaker 6 (01:11:29):
That's all there is, simple twenty four to seven.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Easy now, easy as that, easy as there. All right. Now, well, look,
if I become I'm not going to become a parent.
It's not going to happen. But I'm sure people listening
to other people probably saying the same thing. They probably
it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen.
But then somehow it does and they're suddenly they'll be
looking for this.

Speaker 6 (01:11:49):
Carol Markey, you'd be the best uncle and the best helper,
so you don't necessarily have to be the biological parent
to be having a look at some chips in a
vice as well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
You're scaring me. Your good care, Carol, Margie Dards, thank
you very much from Triplet International. It's been a good chat.
Talk to you soon.

Speaker 4 (01:12:10):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Buye list alive at Tasmania Talks dot com dot au.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Tas Mania Talk's Weather and on the line from the
Bomb we have Blenda Blenda, Good morning to you, Good
morning to you. A few flood alerts still floating around,
floating around, get.

Speaker 8 (01:12:31):
It, yeah yeah, Look, still sitting at the moderate level
at the Cressy pumps. It's just sort of reached the
moderate level last night. The expectation is that it will
start to come down but moderate at the Cressy pumps,
with minor flooding steel currents of the South Esk and
the Meander rivers, without moderate flood warning at the Macquarie River.

(01:12:52):
So yeah, still have a little bit of water around. Look,
we're not going to see a whole lot more falling
out of the skies over the next.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Or two though.

Speaker 8 (01:13:01):
Across the North today it's generally fine across the North.
There might be some light showers about the west, the
south of the southeast, and we might see something up
into the northeast this afternoon, but generally across the central
North and the Northwest Coaster fine today, although a little cloudy.
It started out clear this morning, but looking on our
satellite imagery it's starting to see that cloud pop up,
so expector a partly cloudy afternoon for most centers across

(01:13:24):
the North. So temperature is still relatively mild, like it
was cold this morning. Once hasn't had a minimum of
three degrees and I saw Smifton I think it was
got down to one and a half, so a pretty
cool start, but temperatures generally mid to high teens, Loncester
nineteen and Fought eighteen, Bernie seventeen, Sheffield seventeen, King Island sixteen,

(01:13:46):
straw And sixteen with a possible shower their Flinders Island seventeen,
Scottsdale ands and Helen seventeen and Swansea sixteen and most
of those locations are partly cloudy, just the chest of
some showers about Strawn and King Island there easy is that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Is it too early to look for the weekend? Anything
good looking looking?

Speaker 8 (01:14:03):
Yeah, look something light across the north tomorrow in terms
of a light shower, but look there won't be much around.
But look the weekend, it does look like we're going
to see some rain coming in again. So the expectation
is that we'll see that rain develop about the northwest,
so coming from the northwest, and it's going to extend
right across the north and indeed right across the state
in the evening time. So temperatures will start out a

(01:14:26):
little warmer ahead of that rain. We'll see those winds
from the north they start to freshen, but rain on
its way to extend statewide by the evening. But then
Monday Sunday is going to clear out to the east.
But we're going to see some more showers come in
behind the rain. But look, it'll probably be in the
evening before we see those showers increase across the north again.

(01:14:47):
And Monday, Look we've got another cold outbreak on the way,
so we're talking cold air, small hail coming with those showers,
and snow down to the six hundred meter mark again
through the central Plateau and and what have you. So
it's it's really it doesn't know what's summer yet. I mean,
it's not summer yet. No talking about snow to six

(01:15:08):
hundred meters late November.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Gosh, all right, well right, it's not on Christmas Day
at one stage. People still talk about that. But Linda,
what have we got currently? What are the currents? Quickly?

Speaker 8 (01:15:17):
Oh, yep, certainly I can have a look at those
for us sally around about thirteen to fourteen degrees across
the board, So for us here, and how about we're
at thirteen months and fifteen when you're thirteen and a half,
Devenport's fourteen, King Ireland thirteen, Strawn thirteen, Flinder's Island fourteen,
and Saint Helen's is sitting on fifteen degrees, So mid
mid to high mid mid teens.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Currently looking pretty good. All right, Blinda, talk to you tomorrow.
You've got time to change your mind about the weekend. Okay,
thank you, Yeah, talk to you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
So listen live at Tasmania Talks dot com dot.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Au and on the phone. Right now we're going to
We're going far far away, far far far away, further
than you think. Talking to astrophysicist Brad Taker, of course
from the Mount Stromlow Observatory. Good I Brad, how are
you today? Good?

Speaker 7 (01:16:05):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
I'm well, I'm well. Finally they got the atomus up
and off in the US. They've been trying for a
few weeks, haven't I they have.

Speaker 7 (01:16:14):
The first attempt was actually way back in August twenty eighth. Yeah,
when they started to do that, they had a temperature
sensor problem in the tank, especially it was the bit warmer.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
And then the second time they had a leak of
some sort.

Speaker 7 (01:16:31):
The fix to the first time was to fill it
up slower, so when they did that a few days
later they did, but then they had a massive leak
which they had to replace the seal because obviously leaking
fuel and explosions is never a good thing, and then
they were gonna they fixed it after a couple of weeks,
but then they had Hurricane Ian go through the Florida

(01:16:54):
and coasts and Cuba and that sort of thing. So
then they said, all right, well we'll just wait until
that's done. Then they scheduled for Monday, but they had
Hurricane Nicole, and they eventually got it last night. Though
they got it last night after technical and hurricanes. There
was no hurricanes. They had a few technical small snags
along the way, but they got there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
It's amazing these things because we kind of become what
we sort of assume that it's something easy to do,
but it actually isn't, isn't it. It's hard. It's still
hard to do.

Speaker 7 (01:17:24):
It's hard.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
You know, there are so many things that have to work.

Speaker 7 (01:17:28):
And you know, a rocket is a giant controlled explosion, right,
that's reasly is what it is that you strap people
to the top of. So you want to make sure
it works and you know all of the systems. If
you just think about how often you know your car
has a problem, they need the service, you need to
replace something, a light goes out, and then you think
about all that. The safety checks an aeroplane does a

(01:17:49):
rocket is that, you know, times one hundred if not more,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:17:53):
All, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 7 (01:17:55):
So all these moving parts, everything has to work right.
And so they and they obviously extra a high degree
of caution to make sure that's the case as well.
And so they say, you kind of get complacent that, hey,
it's going to happen. But it did happen, and that
was the key part.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Did they have this many problems back in nineteen sixty
nine when they went to the moon.

Speaker 7 (01:18:14):
Or well we do when we often forget that there
was In fact, the Apollo won the first Apollo mission
and a disaster. The three astronauts perished to the testing
of it. In fact, one of the reasons why Artemus
has no people on it is lessons learnt from that.
They're testing everything in one go without people, so if
something goes wrong, you know, yes, you would lose a rocket,

(01:18:38):
that would be said, but no one will lose their life,
you know. Even on the Apollo eleven mission, they had
to enact something called the Red Team, and the Red
Team was enacted actually last night as well. And the
Red Team we focus on the bravery employees of the astronauts.
The Red teams are a group of people who say, yep,
we will go tinker with the rocket when it's fully
ready to ignight and fuel ending right underneath were that happened. Yeah,

(01:19:01):
you know, it's like saying I'm going to go stick
poke the bear with a giant steak. You know, that's
what they're signing up for. They had to do that
on the Polo Levin due to a little malfunction they
had to fix on the rocket pad when the fuel
was loaded. They had to do the same thing last night,
so you know, and that's the point is we often
don't you know, once it's worked, we don't really remember

(01:19:22):
all those little pauses and tweaks and problems that go ahead.
We just focus on, hey, it went to the moon
and people landed, and just as we will be focusing
the rest of the time in the future on hey,
Artemis one worked and now we'll be sending people and
that sort of thing to the.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Yeah, so this is in why are we going to
the moon? Because I mean, adamus Is is sort of
like a stepping stone towards going back to the moon again.
Why do we need to go there? Is there something
there that we haven't seen yet?

Speaker 7 (01:19:47):
Well, so there's a couple of reasons. One of them
is to build a longer presence on the Moon. The
Apollo missions only went there for a few days and
they did lots of amazing things. These missions will stay
a lot longer, and that's actually the build a semini
semi permanent presence on the Moon does actually allow an
amazing amount of science. You know, we don't reflect just
how much science happened from Apollos. This is going to

(01:20:09):
be dramatically different. But then it's also to get equipment
ready and pave the way to get to Mars, right,
because it's not just let's go to the Moon, it's
let's get to the Moon on the way to Mars.
And it's kind of like a race, right. You know,
you don't just learn how to ride a bike and
then go ride the Tour de France. Sorry, you know,

(01:20:30):
you don't learn to drive a car and go in
the Bathor's five hundred. You ease your way into it.
And that's what the moon is about. You don't jump
to that Bathar's five hundred, which is Mars. Get eas
your way onto the highway, get used to that before
you go to the next level and that's what the
moon and Artemis is all about.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Pretty fascinating stuff. So what are we going to be
putting on on Mars? It's McDonald's.

Speaker 7 (01:20:52):
I mean, the moon will essentially turn into a servo.
You know, the idea.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Is God exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:20:59):
I mean, the moon has ice and that's the other
thing is ice is H two O HJO can actually
be converted into rocket fuel. The rocket Artemis uses liquid
hydrogen and liquid oxygen, so it's the same ingredients that
we have. So the Moon will essentially kind of be
seven to eleven, just with fresher food, so you know,

(01:21:20):
are zoom. But and then you know, Mars will be
the big exploration. That's the big goal.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
What is on Mars? Why do we need to get
to Mars? What's the goal here?

Speaker 7 (01:21:32):
Is one of the big questions is is that idea
of looking for life understanding marsh we when we think
of the history of Earth and we compare it to
say Venus and Mars, Venus kind of went one way
in terms of crazy weird planet. Mars went the other way.
Venus has a very thick atmosphere, very hot, right with greenhouse.

(01:21:55):
Mars kind of went the opposite way. So it will
tell us a lot about Earth actually studying Mars and
maybe in the future studying Venus with probes or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
And then it's that.

Speaker 7 (01:22:05):
Question of life and that sort of thing. So that's
one of the big questions. But even then, it's kind
of if we can do Mars, well, maybe we'll send
things further into the moons of Jupiter or something like that.
Probably not people, but probes, and that's the big quest.
I mean, some people talk about living on Mars. You
know that that's a very distant dream. But you know,
sending people to Mars in the twenty forties is not

(01:22:27):
that exaggerated. If all the stuff on the moon can work.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
That's just amazing, isn't it absolutely amazing. We've come such
a long way. I mean, people say that we're ruining
this Earth, so maybe we should try and find somewhere
in an alternative place. Is that an option or is
that just people talk?

Speaker 7 (01:22:45):
Yeah, people talk about it, But you know, Mars is
Mars is really terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
I mean, I don't think anyone wants to live there
that I mean, really it's I mean, some people.

Speaker 7 (01:22:55):
Do, but it's you know, I always say, you don't
have a flock of people moving to centralist right. You know,
it's a you know, central Australia is a hard place
to live in terms of resources. Mars is that time's
you know thirty or forty, so it's going to be tricky.
It will be possible to have some sort of experiments

(01:23:15):
and some sort of you know, potentially based or science
operation there in terms of long term living for people.
I don't think it's really practical.

Speaker 5 (01:23:23):
I wouldn't be.

Speaker 7 (01:23:24):
Signing up, let's say that. But it does help us
understand things.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:23:28):
One of the things that's different and also with these
missions is.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
It's not just a US thing as well.

Speaker 7 (01:23:35):
There's a lot of Australian work. You know, there there
will be an Australian rover that goes on Artemis four.
Not just the communications people are building science experiments. There's
actually a lot of work going in food, right. You know,
people can need to eat when they go to the
Moon or Mars. You can't just have frize food and
that sort of thing, so there's actually a lot of
lessons and work to be done and how to develop

(01:23:58):
crops and that sort of thing that can deal with
the limits of space and that means actually, that's very
interesting for growing him here on Earth as well. So
there's a lot of those overlaps, and that's a lot
of what Australia is going to be focusing on in
the next ten to twenty years.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
The pathm makes me inter just just amazing is the fact.
I mean years ago people from England, say, didn't even
know Australia was here, and then they discovered Australia and thought,
oh wow, there's there's a whole place here. We didn't
even know this was here. We're sort of at that
point with space, aren't we. Do you think we're ever
going to be looking you know, just whizzing to Mars

(01:24:32):
for lunch and then coming back again or whatever.

Speaker 7 (01:24:35):
Is this just say, maybe not Mars, but you know,
the idea of kind of travel maybe just around Earth
and into space. I don't think it's as dramatically in
the distant future as one may imagine, you know, I
don't think it's one hundred years into the future type thing.
I think it's as he said, more recent than you
know to people navigating and exploring on Earth. Yeah, as

(01:24:58):
he said, in terms of how much progress is happen,
there's so much happening in space. And that's also why
it's different, because so many countries and groups are doing it.
You're not just relying on the US and Russia. And
it's not just a race to one place. It's a
whole new body of research and exploration and investigation that
we find ourselves in and the technology allows us to
do new things that we just never could.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
Have in the past.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
It's just you know, and this is.

Speaker 7 (01:25:22):
Going to be the exciting, you know, part of the
next ten to twenty years. You know, people have been
waiting with this are when are humans going back to
the Moon and all that inspiration? And now there's just
so many things happening one after another, you know, for
people like me to read the exciting field to be in,
and it just means all that much more discovery and
exploration ahead of us on Near Earth, on the Moon,

(01:25:45):
Mars and further Gosha.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
Are you gonna put your hand up for it? No,
not a chance, Not a chance. Really.

Speaker 7 (01:25:52):
When you know how sausage is made, you don't eat sausage.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Right, you live it to someone else to actually be
the guinea pig in there.

Speaker 7 (01:26:00):
I am glad there are people who want to be
that person. I am glad I am not that person.
You know, it takes us and that's the thing that
takes a special mindset and a special person to you know,
because you will have issues, you will have influences, you know,
to think about you maybe hundreds of thousands to millions
or billions. If you're going to Mars kilometers away from

(01:26:22):
Earth and the only person who can rely on the
other few people around you. You know, that takes a
special person. And I'm glad those people exist. But I'm
happy to stay firmly planted on Earth and enjoy the
groups of their labor.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
You do the work from back here. Look, we'll let
you get back to an astrophysicist Brad Tucker from the
Stromlow Observistory. It's been fascinating, absolutely amazing. I'm sure we
could have talked all day, but we've got to do
something else now. But look bad. Thanks thanks for chatting. Okay,
talk to you very soon. Take care.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
It is as many of talks listen live at Tasmania
talks dot com dot au has many a talk dead corner.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
On the line is doctor Jen Griffiths.

Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
Gooday, Jen, good morning, how are you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
I'm well I'm well, we're talking about arth writers just
a moment ago, and I said, I've got it in
my neck, and I think I've got a chicken that's
got our writer. It's gonna chicken get our writers.

Speaker 9 (01:27:18):
Jen, Oh, I don't see why not. They lots of
them live a very long life now, so there is
no reason why they couldn't get it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
As well.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
She sort of doesn't like to jump. She used to
just jump down from the top of the thing and
do a thing, but now she stands there and she's
very apprehensive now, and I think there's something going on here.

Speaker 9 (01:27:37):
Yeah, it certainly could be they can, because we can
certainly see it in their joints and things like that
and hips, so there's certainly no reason why they won't
get it, just like our cats and dogs and things
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
To continue on our very weird conversation that we were
just having off air in here, I'll check this question
to you, because that's probably a good question, the snakes
get our writers.

Speaker 9 (01:28:01):
Look, I'm not sure.

Speaker 6 (01:28:03):
I guess.

Speaker 9 (01:28:06):
You'd have to oppose that one to the exotics bits.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
I guess that's a strange question. But Richard just said
to me, I don't know, well, I suppose I can
ask them, I can ask Jan. I'm guessing it's it's
mostly older animals, dogs, cats, that sort of thing that
you would probably see.

Speaker 4 (01:28:23):
Yeah, so when we're diagnosing our critis.

Speaker 9 (01:28:26):
It is predominantly in our older pets. And again, you know,
our pets are living a lot longer because we have
such wonderful health care. We do so much for them,
and therefore we do see some of these aging changes
that do occur now. So, yes, the older ones that
are coming in a little bit stiff, a little bit
sore sometimes if they've had a big day at the

(01:28:46):
beach or something like that, owners might say, yeah, look
they were pretty sore the next day.

Speaker 8 (01:28:51):
And so those are just.

Speaker 9 (01:28:52):
Sort of subtle signs that you should be looking out
for if they're starting to struggle with with that, and
there's lots we can do to help them some.

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
I mean, no, I know some dog breeds are more
prone to it than others. Do you find that some
animals are more prone to it than others?

Speaker 9 (01:29:07):
Yeah, so I think there's lots of breeds certainly that
we do see. I mean, as they're aging, any breed
we'll see that can be affected by ours writers, some
dogs more than others. It just sometimes depends on the
conformation of their bones, their structure, whether they're overweight or not,
those sorts of things. So there are lots of variables

(01:29:29):
that contribute to it and make it worse. So we
do like to just try and sort of manage their weight.
And for those patients that have had potential, you know,
surgery previously when they were younger, so if they've had
joint injuries, so we do lots and lots of surgeries
on ruptured krushchuets and the knee, and those pets are

(01:29:50):
certainly at risk of getting ours writers as they get
older because they've had a joint injury and that sort
of goes without saying. Really, if we injure our joints
and things, you're more prone to getting degenerative change in
those joints. So we want to be looking out for
those those patients even more closely than normal.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
So, yeah, at the risk of sending horrible and suggesting
feeding one pet to another pet, should we be trying
to get our pets if they have our thriatis to
eat fish and stuff like that. Do the same rules
apply to pets as humans?

Speaker 9 (01:30:20):
Yeah, So it's not a not a silly thing to
think about. The amiga trees and sixes that are in
those of fathiacids and things can help with so fish
oil is a really nice thing that they.

Speaker 8 (01:30:33):
Can have, and people have it as well.

Speaker 9 (01:30:36):
Lots of the arthritis adjunctive therapies that are on the
market now are predominantly sort of the background to them
is things like marine mammalso and animals, so like green lips, muscle,
shark castilige and things, all sustainably sourced of course, but
it's you know, those sorts of things make a big

(01:30:58):
difference to the joint and help the proteins and the
cartilage within the joint. And that's what we're trying to
look after here, is we want to keep that cartilage
bed really nice and cushioned for those patients, because as
our writers gets worse, the cartilage starts to sort of
get eaten away, for like, and then you end up
eventually having bone rubbing off zone and that's what makes

(01:31:21):
it incredibly painful.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
That, of course, is the definition of arthritis in any creature,
I suppose. So, I mean there's things you can do,
I guess to make your pets like putting a step
up for the dog or whatever to get on the couch.
I've seen people do that before. Is that last resort
or is there other treatments that can be done.

Speaker 9 (01:31:40):
So there's lots of things that we can do for them,
and for me, it's about doing all of the things
rather than just relying on one therapieza to help your pet.
So I have two older pets myself. So I've got
an older Golden Retriever he's twelve years old, and I've
got a thirteen year old cat, and so I have
made a lot of changes for my dog. You know,

(01:32:01):
he can no longer get into the back of the
car without me lifting him. We're helping him with ramps
and things we have to lift him in and out.
He's also on those other therapies that I put in
his food to help him, so, like the Ameba threes
and fixers and so on. But also we do have
access now obviously to a lot of pain really for
our pets. So here's a multitude of meditations on the

(01:32:22):
market that we can use and that can be absolutely
life changing for them. Anti inflammatory medication really can make
a huge difference for them because when they have got
our writers. It's inflammation that often is present within those joints.
So if we can help reduce that inflammation makes a
bit different for their life, and those medications might be

(01:32:44):
needed just now and again, or they might be needed
continuously as they get older. And we can do lots
and lots of things to ensure that it's safe for
them to have it. So we do blood tests, we
check their kidneys and their liver function, because when you're
on medication long term, of course, it's very important to
make sure their body can withstand that and can process
that medication long term as well.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
Is there any opportunity for you know, like steroid injections
or anything like that. Does that work?

Speaker 9 (01:33:12):
In the past, steroids were the drug of choice, but
we've definitely moved well away from that now, so that's
not our first and foremost choice of treatment anymore. Side
effects of steroids can be quite significant, so we actually
avoid them more so with that we have nonsteroid or
anti inflamaties. Actually now that we use fast writers, and

(01:33:33):
they just are a lot more effective and much easier
to sort of titrait and give doses, and we try
and wean everyone down to the lowest effective dose for
them as well, So that's also really important. You know,
this is something that we can always be looking at
and managing and we can you know, reduce the dose

(01:33:53):
if they're doing really well, we can try and see
if they can go down to a lower dose. And
that's just again taking care of the patients as a whole.
So therefore we're helping their kidneys. We're not putting to
much pressure on their kidneys or their liver and things
like that. So there's also there's so many forms of
medication that we use now. We're very lucky to have
have access to that for our pets.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Yeah, Okay, Richards has said to me, does sheep sheep
dogs suffer from it? Which is probably a good question
actually because people they spend a lot of money on
sheep dogs. I've heard of sheep dogs being sold for
you know, eighty dollars, hundred thousand dollars and stuff.

Speaker 9 (01:34:30):
Yeah, they're yeah, they're a major part of their working,
you know, of a team on a farm. So absolutely
they might be potentially more prone to it. I guess
the more active that they are might be more prone
to injuries, I suppose as well, So that would be
something to certainly consider in those really active dogs, and
those are dogs that we do see that will rupture

(01:34:52):
cruciate ligaments and things like that because.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
They're changing direction and stuff all the time. I guess, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 9 (01:34:57):
Yeah, So absolutely they would be equally as affected as
our pet dogs that are, you know, sort of living
slightly more sedentary lifestyle, but they'll certainly be working pretty hard,
so they would be absolutely at risk of that. But
as a normal aging process then absolutely it goes about
saying most animals which would be prone to it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
As a general rule, if you've got a pet that's
got the beginnings of oarth, writers, should you be taking
it for walks and giving it exercise or should you
be trying to encourage it to slow down a bit?
What would be the best way to stop it from
sitting in big time?

Speaker 9 (01:35:33):
Yeah, So look, it's a fine balance. So these patients
certainly still need controlled exercise and that's really important. We
want their muscles working. And younger animals can be affected too,
so we have to consider for those patients that might
have hips pleasure or elbow displeasure, they can get authritis
very early on in life, so we do things like
hydrotherapy really yeah, and they go to the underwater treadmills

(01:35:58):
and things like that, so there's so much available for them.
But it's controlled exercise. It's a regime that is built around,
you know, with the with the nurse to do that
and to work them to a point where they're not
too exhausted and don't get too sore. But we're also
building their muscle as well to help look after those

(01:36:18):
those joints and to keep them really mobile. And that
goes that that's the same for our older pets too.
We still want them to enjoy going for a little
walk and you know, might love to go in the water.
Swimming is a lovely form of exercise where they're not
putting too much weight on those joints, but they're getting
fabulous exercise and working those muscles. So they're all important.
And if it's if they maybe have overdone it one day,

(01:36:41):
you might give them a rest day the next day.
So it's all about just sort of managing them appropriately
and just sort of seeing how they're coping day to day.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
Really yeah, Chi users a lot too, It isn't there
all right, I think we've probably covered it. I guess
there's nothing else that we should know about arthritis in pits.
We can all. We still don't know where the snake's
can get our thritis, do we We haven't. We haven't.
We haven't narrowed down on that as yet, So I
might have to do some I might have to do
some googling and just see where the snakes go. I
will do that. Actually I'll play a song and then

(01:37:11):
I might I might just do some googling because Google
knows everything. You know that it's going to be on there,
Doctor Jen Griffiths pet Corner. Thank you very much and
I'll talk to you down the track. Thank you, no worries,
thanks for having me by. Now I'm going to go
on Google. It's twenty four to twelve. This is Tasmania Talks.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
Listen live at Tasmania Talks dot com dot au