November 10, 2024 • 26 mins
Fairy smut, spicy reads and sexy books... whatever you want to call it, what was once looked down upon as silly women's literature has grown into a multi billion dollar business.
The rise of genres like Romantasy is seeing legions of women delve into reading like never before, with books once hidden on the back of the shelf book now being turned into huge movies and television shows (looking at you Rivals, 50 Shades Of Grey et al.)
Today we take a look back at romance and erotica for women and why it’s now out of the shadows, and yes, this one's not for little ears.
THE END BITS
Support independent women's media
Check out The Quicky Instagram here
Liked this episode? Listen to these:
The History Of High Heels Did Not Start With Women
I'm A Feminist, But Do I Secretly Wanna Be A Tradwife?
Pucker Up! The Politics & Pleasure Of Red Lipstick
Toxic Femininity: Are Women Trained To Hate Each Other?
Join the Month of MOVE
Get $30 off a Mamamia subscription and get unlimited access to our feel-good exercise app. Head here to get a yearly subscription for just $39.
GET IN TOUCH
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice note or email us at thequicky@mamamia.com.au
CREDITS
Host: Claire Murphy
With thanks to:
Lilian Kovats, Sales Director Hachette Australia
Executive Producer: Taylah Strano
Audio Producers: Tegan Sadler
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on. Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma
MEA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie. Just a heads
up to start. We are talking about sexy books today,
So if you have little is around that you don't
(00:32):
want asking some interesting questions, maybe pop your headphones in
for this one. There's a new TV show currently playing
on OSSI TV screens and it is very, very saucy.
Did the Prime Minister give you permission to fuck a
journalist in the onboard tournament?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Lou Tony w.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Plebian Rivals on Disney Plus is the screen adaptation of
one of Dame Jilly Cooper's iconic novels, part of a
series that back in their day, were referred to as Bonkbusters.
But Dame Gilly's books aren't the only spicy stories written
by women for women that are hitting our screens right now,
and the rise of genres like romanticy sing regions of
(01:10):
women delve into the world of fairy erotica. Okay, who
am I kidding? It's referred to as very smart. The
once hidden on the back of the shelf book is
finally out and proud and on the coffee tables and
bedsides of millions around the world. Today we take a
look back at romance and erotica for women and why
it's now out of the shadows. But first, here's the
letters from the Quickie newsroom. Monday, November eleven. The body
(01:32):
of former One Direction star Lim Paine has been repatriated
to the UK, with his funeral set to take place
this week. The date of the gathering, which will reportedly
see Paine's former One Direction bandmates Simon Cowe, who helped
the then Young Boys become stars, his seven year old
son Bear, and former partner Sheryl Cole attend is set
for this week. His family has called for privacy, but
(01:54):
some British tabloids have been speculating about the funeral's date,
time and location, with fans urging others not to turn
up and try to get photos of people in mourning.
This is your friendly reminder at that Liam was a son,
a brother and a father. If you're thinking of going
to Limpaine's funeral, think again. Authorities are still investigating the
(02:15):
death of the singer after he fell from the balcony
of his hotel in Argentina on October sixteen. They've now
officially ruled out suicide, concluding Pain was not fully conscious
or was in a state of decreased or a complete
loss of consciousness when he fell, so it wasn't intentional.
He was alone in the room at the time, so
there's no insinuation that he was pushed either. Three people
(02:36):
were arrested and charged over Paine's death late last week,
charging a friend of the singer with abandonment for allegedly
breaching his duty of care. The person is said to
be Pain's manager, who found to answer several calls from
police and who found to notify Pain's family that he'd
relapsed into drug use a cocktail of substances found in
the toxicology reports. The two others are a hotel employee
(02:59):
and a drug dealer who've been charged with supplying the substances,
including pink cocaine, a cocktail of ecstasy, ketamine, caffeine, and
a psychedelic It was reported yesterday the police are also
searching for the singer's missing Rolex watch, which he's seen
wearing in the CCTV footage in the hours before his death,
but was not located in the search immediately after the
(03:20):
police were called. Investigators searched the homes of the three
people who've been arrested and the two women who spent
time with the singer before his death, but all failed
to turn up the time piece. They're now going to
research the hotel room where Payne was staying at the
time of his death. The room remains sealed off while
the investigation continues. Donald Trump has been filled in calls
(03:41):
from world leaders after his election win, the former and
now president elect securing the two final states of Nevada
and Arizona, a clean sweep of all seven battleground states.
Trump spoke to Ukraine President Vladimir Zelenski the day after
the election result was called. According to sources, Trump was
at his Florida resort when the call came through. They
(04:01):
had a brief and cordial conversation before Trump reportedly handed
the phone to his friend Elon Musk. Zelensky reportedly thanked
Musk for the use of his Styling satellite system, which
is aiding Ukrainian troops on the front line as they
continue to fight the Russian invasion. During his campaign, Trump
has cast doubt on the US's continued commitment to supporting
Ukraine as the war with Russia drags on for more
(04:23):
than two and a half years, also suggesting the US
may force Ukraine into a truce with Russia. Celebrity chef
Jamie Oliver has pulled sales of his new kid's book
after the plotline revealed an offensive story about Indigenous Australians.
Titled Billy and the Epic Escape, it's a sequel to
the chef and author's first kids fantasy series. This time
(04:44):
it follows a young First Nations girl who's living in
foster care who's kidnapped by the bad guy because she
is more in connection with nature. The book also mixes
up languages and cultures from several different Aboriginal nations. The books,
published at Penguin Random House, admitted there was no consultation
with any Indigenous organizations or people prior to the book's release.
(05:05):
The National Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander Education Corporation says the
book Bok is contributing to the Eurasia trivialization and stereotyping
of First Nations peoples and experiences Oliver has apologized and
removed the book from sale, saying he was devastated to
have caused offense, saying it was never his intention to
misinterpret this deeply painful issue. Australians around the nation will
(05:28):
pause for a minute at eleven am today to honor
those who died in military conflicts around the world Remembrance
Day formerly Armistice Day, which marked the date the peace
Agreement to end World War One was signed. Now Caesar
stopped to remember the millions of lives that were lost
in the Great War and the wars that came after.
It will be lit up at eleven am with the
word love. Governor General Sam Mostyn will deliver the memorial
(05:51):
dress at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. In Sydney,
the sales of the Opera House will lit up with
poppies as the sun rose this morning and will again
as the sun sets tonight. That's what's going on in
the world today. Next, sexy books written for women by
women are all the rage, and there's no signs of
them going away anytime soon. When I was a kid,
(06:21):
I remember my mum reading Meals and Boone's novels. They
were small paperbacks adorned with pictures of ruggedly handsome men,
often with a gorgeous woman by his side or in
his arms, with titles like Taming Laura, Doctors in Dispute,
and The Devil's Bride. They were written by women for women,
and as is so often with many things like this,
they were considered a little bit taboo, a little bit tacky,
(06:44):
something you didn't brag about in literature circles, something to
be tucked away after reading, not displayed out on a bookshelf.
Of course, romance novels have been around for way longer
than the one hundred years of meals and Boone. Jane
Austen and Charlotte Bronte are considered icons of the genre,
telling stories of heterosexual women and men. But if you've
never read a romance novel before, we can tell you
(07:05):
they all mostly follow the same pattern. Women meets men
and they must overcome some personal struggle to finally understand
that they do indeed love each other, and then it
ends with a fairly happy ever after vibe. But when
journalists Dame Jilly Cooper's Rutshier Chronicles novels started to be
released in the mid nineteen eighties, the landscape was changing.
(07:26):
Not only were the characters falling in love. What if
no one ever loves me?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I'm mess you someone?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I love you?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
They were experiencing incredible heartbreak Do.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You even really exist?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And they were getting busy between the sheets.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Too delightfully ambitious of your little brother? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I try, but well many read these stories, Dame Jilly
Cooper selling more than eleven million copies in the UK,
a lot and her nineteen eighty five book Writers making
the BBC List of one hundred Important English Language Novels
in the Love, Sex and Romance section. Still, the genre
(08:18):
was kept pushed a little to the back of the bookshelf.
That was until the likes of Julia Quinn and Sarah J.
Mass arrived on the scene. Julia Quinn is the author
behind the Bridgeton series kicking off with an offer from
a Gentleman in two thousand and one. The book since
made into the wildly popular TV series on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Come Your Friends, Forgive Me. I do not know what
I was thinking.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I don't very much like to be more than friends
so much more.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Fifty Shades of Gray, written by E. L. James, was
released in twenty eleven and subsequently made into a movie,
but unlike Bridgeton, Fifty Shades was seen as something a
bit more taboo, almost to be looked down on due
to its much more sexual content.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You're a satist, I'm a dominant. What does that mean?
It means I want you to willingly surrender yourself to me.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Why would I do that to pleasure more?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Many discovered Quinn's Bridgeton series retrospectively post show Nothing has
made waves in the romance, well technically romanticy genre of
late then. Sarah J. Mass' is a court of Thorns
and roses, known by its acronym Akata.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Colleague Nicole was the first to get a lot of
us here at Mamma Mia onto the Akatar series and says,
the books just hit right where you don't maybe know
your deep dark desires live.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I love the Aquitar series because I'm a thirty six
year old mother who is overwhelmed, exhausted, tired, stressed all
those really boring things, and Akata allows me to escape
to a world where there's no real problems. I mean, besides,
you know, the end of the world and all that,
But there's magic, there's money, there's saucy sex scenes, and
let's face it, as much as I'm a feminist, I think,
(10:08):
deep down I just want to be rescued.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Sarah J. Mus three series have now sold more than
thirty eight million copies worldwide. The hashtag akatar has been
used and viewed billions of times. Rebecca Yaris's Steamy Dragon
Fourth Wing series has also been a big hit, the
first book selling two million copies in just six months.
A twenty twenty three study on romance book genre sales
(10:32):
revealed that it is the highest earning fiction genre of
them all, pulling in one point four to four billion
dollars in revenue and selling over thirty nine million printed
units in twenty twenty three. It ends with US author
Colleen Hoover and Emily Henry, who's best known for her
novel Beach Read, make up the line's share of the
romance global market. Romance readers are high volume consumers, too.
(10:55):
Seventy eight percent finish a book at least once a month,
the vast majority of them through their Kindle e reader
or on their phone. The average romance reader is forty
two years old, Caucasian and married, but the eighteen to
forty four age group is bus catching up at forty
four percent, twenty nine percent admit carrying a romance novel
with them, Forty six percent read at least one a week.
(11:17):
Compared to twenty twenty one global data, the sale of
romance novels is up thirty six percent, So Ozzie's into
it too. Lillian Kovats is a sales director for publisher
Hatchet Australia. Lillian, for those who have just discovered the
romance genre, it might seem like it went from being
nowhere to being everywhere overnight, but have we actually seen
an uptick in readers of the genre in recent years.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
It really started to kick off in our market during
the COVID years, during the lockdown years, so romance really
started to serge sort of twenty twenty twenty twenty one
through to the end of twenty twenty three, the category
is up two hundred and fifty three percent on where
it was in twenty nineteen, so that is really significant growth.
In twenty twenty three, romance books are count of for
(12:02):
nearly really over sixty two million dollars worth of sales
in the Australian market, and that's continued this year. So
romance and saga books so far in twenty twenty four
are up over twelve percent, and the science fiction fantasy
portion of that, which can include some romanticy which is
a subcategory, is up over eighty percent.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So definitely still seeing.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Growth, lots of new authors coming in all the time,
and still yeah, really exciting part of the book industry.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And which authors are we seeing are really hitting the
mark here in Australia.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
So it's still very much romance led in that sort
of that traditional romance space. We have a lot of
billionaire romance, so our top authors are people like Anna
Hong who's done lots of billionaire romance series.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Like the Twisted series.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But we are seeing some new trends coming through and
the fastest growing, as I said, is romanticy. So the
number one author in that category is one of ours,
Rebecca Yarros, with her Fourth Wing series, and that has
brought a whole lot of new people into the genre
who maybe didn't think that romance was so much for them,
or romance readers who didn't think that fantasy was for them,
and quite a lot of male readers as well. Interestingly,
(13:08):
so there are some of the lastest growing areas. Sports
romance has always done very well, and there's been some
ice hockey romance that started out. Our author Anahong has
started a Premier League romance series, so we're definitely seeing
a shift into the sport area. Cowboys are perennially popular,
so we've got Elsie Silver and Lilah Stage who are
(13:28):
at the top of the charts writing their cowboy romances.
So yeah, definitely lots of different subjtions within the very
broad romance genre.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And are we seeing any signs of that slowing down?
I know you said, sales are still looking pretty healthy
this year. Any signs that that's backing off at all?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
No, not really backing off at all. It is just
a category that keeps evolving with people's tastes. Like I said,
it really started with much more obvious contemporary romance, but
it has shifted much more into the romanticy space. We
see certain genres rise and fall as they gain popularity
on new authors come into space, but yeah, certainly overall
(14:05):
not dropping off, just a lot more of choice in
the category now.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Someone who has read some of the spiciest, sexiest, smuttiest
books in recent years is Tierney Reads, a content creator
and soon to be author herself, who regularly posts recommendations
for spicy books on TikTok and Instagram.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Books I read and loved that.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
I wouldn't want my family to know I read and
love why's that, Teerney?
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Do you know?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Maybe it's we could creed and she goes to pound
down with two step cousins. Yes, at the same time,
I never used to read spicy books. I've gone from
like zero to one hundred. I want all the trigger warnings,
I want all the semen, I want dicks, I want balls,
I want vaginas, give me everything. Give me a watch
these romance with four hot cops, and I'll disassociate and
disappear down that deep, dark hole real quick.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Teanney, You're forgiven. If you can't remember the very first
I couldn't tell you the title of the one I read.
But do you remember your first spicy book and how
it made you feel?
Speaker 6 (15:01):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Definitely. So I read my first spicy book.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
It was back in twenty twenty two, so a couple
of years ago now, and it it was called A
Court of Thorn and Roses. You've probably heard of it.
It's by Sarah J. Mass, and she's a really big
romanticy author. That's how I came across my first spicy book.
My best friends were reading it at the time and
they were just talking about it, and I felt left
out of this conversation, and one of them just said,
(15:28):
you need.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
To read this, and I did, and I spiraled it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Talk to me about that spiral, because obviously the Sarah J. Massworld,
for those who've not read A Courd of Thorn and Roses,
is huge, and it's multi universal, and there's different series
that all sort of connecting together. And so what was
it about that first book you think that got you hooked.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
I just had no idea that there were romance books
that existed like that. I mean, of course i'd heard
of the old mills and Boons that you know, our
aunties and our mums might have hidden in a chest
in their cupboard, but I just had no idea that
there were different sub genres under the romance umbrella. So
I had no idea that fantasy could tie in romance,
(16:08):
and that sort of opened up the gate to start
exploring different subgenres under romance as well. It was just
I feel as though it was almost a little bit
empowering because while I was reading, it just opened up
different conversations with my friends, and it sort of just
didn't stop from there.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
It kind of just snowballed.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Can we talk about how it sometimes impacts your sex
life too, because many women talk about having read these
books and it really opening their eyes and sort of
reinvigorating their sex life. Would you say that you've had
that experience?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I would.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
I think that the romance novels offer a safe space
for women to explore different forms of intimacy, whether it's
you know, relationship dynamics, different sort of kinks, And I
just think by reading it provides a judgment free way
for readers to imagine what might appeal to them or
understand sort of new perspectives on attraction and pleasure. And
(17:03):
I just feel like it helps normalize talking about desire,
even when we're trying.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
To discover it.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You've mentioned the subgenres. Can you give us an idea
of just how many there are?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
To know?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
There is like way too many to list of, but
this is a safe space you can use words. Please
give us an idea of the different kinds of subgenres
you've come across in your spicy book reading journey.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
Sure, I've come across Monster smart or monster romance, which
has a little bit more sort of sci fi tied
into it, so it might be aliens. Then you've got
your lafia romances, you've got contemporary romances. I've come across
dark romance, which is actually very popular fantasy romance. And
(17:48):
then there's sort of little tropes underneath that that people
look for and it helps them shop for a book.
So there might be billionaire romance, there might be you know,
single parent romance.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Do you know what a couple of my friends are
really into, which I wasn't expecting is ice hockey romance?
Speaker 6 (18:05):
That one snack up on me as well. I don't
watch sport, but the first time I read a spicy
hockey romance book, I loved it. And I didn't know
what it was about it, and I still don't, but
there's something in it. And I remember the first book
that I read was Icebreaker by Hannah Grace, and I
think that was a lot of people stepping stone into
(18:26):
hockey romance.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
When did you start reviewing these books on social media?
And can you talk to me about the kind of
response you got when you first started doing it.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Sure, So I first started reading and reviewing these books
towards the end of twenty twenty two, So it was
just after I finished reading the Card of Thorn and
Roses series by Sarah J. Mass and that's when I
downloaded TikTok and I had never heard about book talk,
so that's when I started reading all of those. For
the most part, the response was really positive. I did
(18:56):
get the occasional more than anything. It was an occasional
man piping in sort of saying that your friends might
see this, and what will happen if your family sees this,
and it's kind of dropping that stigma and just normalizing it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, that's something you do sometimes mention in your videos
that like, oh my god, my family's going to see this.
But like, let's dive right on in. How has your
family responded to it?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Do you know what?
Speaker 6 (19:19):
They've been so positive, and they've been really really supportive
of it.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I'm married, I've been married for nearly eight years. My
husband's really supportive of it, and I.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
Think they can see that I've become a lot more
confident as a person just from reading and talking about this,
because I mean at the beginning, it wasn't an easy
thing to do, and it's not easy to jump online
and be authentic and so open about what you're reading
with people. But after a while you realize it does
become normal and there shouldn't be societal expectations around it.
(19:50):
They shouldn't be stigma around it. It's recognizing that they're valuable.
They explore emotions and relationships and human desires rather than
just spice.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
It's not like a porn movie or a graphic magazine, like,
there's a hell of a lot more to it, right.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
There is a lot more to it, and I think
a lot of people just don't necessarily realize that, and
you won't until you read it, and I can understand that,
but yeah, there is a lot more to it.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
So it's been a couple of years since you've started
doing this. I mean, I personally have seen a real
increase in both women and men sharing their sexy book recommendations,
and even men telling other men, Hey, if you're trying
to find a way to spice up your sex life,
go pick up the book your woman is reading and
get a few ideas. Like have you really seen an
explosion in this?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
Definitely I really really have, and I think that a
lot of it I actually put down to the self
published in the authors. I think that it explores diverse representation,
so I think with more genres, more relationships and characters,
I feel as though it reflects a variety of experiences
and different identities, and people can resonate with personal experiences,
(20:56):
and I just feel like it would make the reader
feel validated and more confident about expressing their love and
their experience or the connection to the book and the characters.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So definitely that's something too worth exploring in that romance
novels of old were generally heterosexual relationships, whereas modern day
spicy books are like all kinds of combinations of straight,
queer and everything in between. Right.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
Yeah, Definitely there's a movement in promoting sexual positivity for everybody,
and I think everybody can relate to love and romance
and sexual desires, and romance just doesn't exclude And that's
what I really really love about it. It resonates with
readers because they're just beginning to see characters who reflect
their lives and experiences, and it's just becoming more increasingly
(21:49):
inclusive over time, and I just think it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Why do you think it is happening now though, tiny,
because like Akatara, Cordthorne and Roses, as you mentioned, like
that was written all the way back or released back
in twenty fifteen, but many of us are only really
discovering this series now. Why do you think in twenty
twenty four it's really sort of found its niche in
book talk and in readership across the world.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
I think that platforms like Instagram, TikTok or books talk,
there's also good Reads, they've created communities of romance readers
and writers, so not only can you connect with fellow readers,
but you can also actually speak one on one with
the authors that you love. And I just feel like
these platforms have allowed open discussions about romance and smart
(22:36):
and normalizing what was once considered to be taboo and
creating excitement around you know, new releases, character tropes, spicy scenes,
and I think with the rise of ebooks and audio
books as well, it's just created.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
A much more immersive experience for readers.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
And I think that it's become a lot more accessible
because of them too.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I'd love to get your take on turning these books
into films or TV series, because we've seen Dame Deey
Cooper's books turned into the TV show Rivals, which is
now hit our screens. There's been a rumor circulating for
quite some time that Akataskar be turned into a TV show,
but the when, who and how of that still remains
a bit of a mystery. How do you feel about
bringing these characters to life, because there's going to be
(23:18):
a whole bunch of people who are like, that's not
my recent.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
I think it is really divided, but I think it
will also just expose readers and viewers to new things.
Like if you take Bridgitton for example, that was Julia
Quinn and I hadn't heard of the series before watching it,
and I knew that that really took off and it
was amazing for her. And you couldn't buy the books
(23:43):
anywhere because people wanted to continue the story and wanted
to read and wanted to immerse themselves in it.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So I think there's a real divide.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
I think it can be quite difficult, but it can
also be really exciting. It gives authors so many wonderful
opportunities as well. I'm not sure if you've heard of
The After Series by Anna Todd. So that's a movie
franchise that initially started in romance books, and that was
way back in the early twenty ten, so she was
sort of one of the OG's at the same time
(24:11):
as Fifty Shades of Gray, and she just wrote fan
fiction and it's changed her life because it's turned into
a book series, which then subsequently turned into a TV
series and movies. So I think there's definitely the risk
of people not feeling as though the characters were represented
as they were in their mind. But I think it
(24:33):
also opens up a channel for people to explore new
things and get to connect with books.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You know, So romance and romanticy readers are coming out
of the woodwork and bring it with them less shame,
more spice, an increased level of exposure to the women
who write them, and a whole lot more interesting knowledge
about what really gets them going. But of course we
won't leave your hanging. Here are some books that Tenney
says sit at the top of her recommendation list, and
(25:01):
make sure you check back in on our show notes
in January, we'll pop a link in to Tenne's new book,
The Other Brother.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
So I will always recommend the London Mistic series by
an author named Rosa Lucas. It's a trilogy and it's
about three multi multi millionaires and they're a little bit
boisterous and it's them on their little journeys to find love,
but they all come in unexpected ways. So I would
definitely recommend that to people who are looking for something
(25:27):
fun and if they've not read spicy romance books before.
Also another one is the Off Campus series by l Kennedy,
So that's a series of spicy hockey romances which will
also soon be adapted into a TV series. So I
would recommend getting onto those. That's a five book series
and they're just.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Brilliant and what would you say, is like the darkest,
most twisted one you've ever read.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
So some people will find Credence by Penelope Douglas to
be a little bit confronting only because it's a little
bit taboo.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
But I really loved that book. I really loved that
book and I recommend it a lot. And another one
would be God of Pain by Riena Kent. That's a
part of the Legacy of God's series Just Case that
I hadn't.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
Really heard of before, so it was quite enlightening.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
The Guggie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our
Executive producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by tig and
Sadler
You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on. Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma
MEA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie. Just a heads
up to start. We are talking about sexy books today,
So if you have little is around that you don't
(00:32):
want asking some interesting questions, maybe pop your headphones in
for this one. There's a new TV show currently playing
on OSSI TV screens and it is very, very saucy.
Did the Prime Minister give you permission to fuck a
journalist in the onboard tournament?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Lou Tony w.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Plebian Rivals on Disney Plus is the screen adaptation of
one of Dame Jilly Cooper's iconic novels, part of a
series that back in their day, were referred to as Bonkbusters.
But Dame Gilly's books aren't the only spicy stories written
by women for women that are hitting our screens right now,
and the rise of genres like romanticy sing regions of
(01:10):
women delve into the world of fairy erotica. Okay, who
am I kidding? It's referred to as very smart. The
once hidden on the back of the shelf book is
finally out and proud and on the coffee tables and
bedsides of millions around the world. Today we take a
look back at romance and erotica for women and why
it's now out of the shadows. But first, here's the
letters from the Quickie newsroom. Monday, November eleven. The body
(01:32):
of former One Direction star Lim Paine has been repatriated
to the UK, with his funeral set to take place
this week. The date of the gathering, which will reportedly
see Paine's former One Direction bandmates Simon Cowe, who helped
the then Young Boys become stars, his seven year old
son Bear, and former partner Sheryl Cole attend is set
for this week. His family has called for privacy, but
(01:54):
some British tabloids have been speculating about the funeral's date,
time and location, with fans urging others not to turn
up and try to get photos of people in mourning.
This is your friendly reminder at that Liam was a son,
a brother and a father. If you're thinking of going
to Limpaine's funeral, think again. Authorities are still investigating the
(02:15):
death of the singer after he fell from the balcony
of his hotel in Argentina on October sixteen. They've now
officially ruled out suicide, concluding Pain was not fully conscious
or was in a state of decreased or a complete
loss of consciousness when he fell, so it wasn't intentional.
He was alone in the room at the time, so
there's no insinuation that he was pushed either. Three people
(02:36):
were arrested and charged over Paine's death late last week,
charging a friend of the singer with abandonment for allegedly
breaching his duty of care. The person is said to
be Pain's manager, who found to answer several calls from
police and who found to notify Pain's family that he'd
relapsed into drug use a cocktail of substances found in
the toxicology reports. The two others are a hotel employee
(02:59):
and a drug dealer who've been charged with supplying the substances,
including pink cocaine, a cocktail of ecstasy, ketamine, caffeine, and
a psychedelic It was reported yesterday the police are also
searching for the singer's missing Rolex watch, which he's seen
wearing in the CCTV footage in the hours before his death,
but was not located in the search immediately after the
(03:20):
police were called. Investigators searched the homes of the three
people who've been arrested and the two women who spent
time with the singer before his death, but all failed
to turn up the time piece. They're now going to
research the hotel room where Payne was staying at the
time of his death. The room remains sealed off while
the investigation continues. Donald Trump has been filled in calls
(03:41):
from world leaders after his election win, the former and
now president elect securing the two final states of Nevada
and Arizona, a clean sweep of all seven battleground states.
Trump spoke to Ukraine President Vladimir Zelenski the day after
the election result was called. According to sources, Trump was
at his Florida resort when the call came through. They
(04:01):
had a brief and cordial conversation before Trump reportedly handed
the phone to his friend Elon Musk. Zelensky reportedly thanked
Musk for the use of his Styling satellite system, which
is aiding Ukrainian troops on the front line as they
continue to fight the Russian invasion. During his campaign, Trump
has cast doubt on the US's continued commitment to supporting
Ukraine as the war with Russia drags on for more
(04:23):
than two and a half years, also suggesting the US
may force Ukraine into a truce with Russia. Celebrity chef
Jamie Oliver has pulled sales of his new kid's book
after the plotline revealed an offensive story about Indigenous Australians.
Titled Billy and the Epic Escape, it's a sequel to
the chef and author's first kids fantasy series. This time
(04:44):
it follows a young First Nations girl who's living in
foster care who's kidnapped by the bad guy because she
is more in connection with nature. The book also mixes
up languages and cultures from several different Aboriginal nations. The books,
published at Penguin Random House, admitted there was no consultation
with any Indigenous organizations or people prior to the book's release.
(05:05):
The National Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander Education Corporation says the
book Bok is contributing to the Eurasia trivialization and stereotyping
of First Nations peoples and experiences Oliver has apologized and
removed the book from sale, saying he was devastated to
have caused offense, saying it was never his intention to
misinterpret this deeply painful issue. Australians around the nation will
(05:28):
pause for a minute at eleven am today to honor
those who died in military conflicts around the world Remembrance
Day formerly Armistice Day, which marked the date the peace
Agreement to end World War One was signed. Now Caesar
stopped to remember the millions of lives that were lost
in the Great War and the wars that came after.
It will be lit up at eleven am with the
word love. Governor General Sam Mostyn will deliver the memorial
(05:51):
dress at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. In Sydney,
the sales of the Opera House will lit up with
poppies as the sun rose this morning and will again
as the sun sets tonight. That's what's going on in
the world today. Next, sexy books written for women by
women are all the rage, and there's no signs of
them going away anytime soon. When I was a kid,
(06:21):
I remember my mum reading Meals and Boone's novels. They
were small paperbacks adorned with pictures of ruggedly handsome men,
often with a gorgeous woman by his side or in
his arms, with titles like Taming Laura, Doctors in Dispute,
and The Devil's Bride. They were written by women for women,
and as is so often with many things like this,
they were considered a little bit taboo, a little bit tacky,
(06:44):
something you didn't brag about in literature circles, something to
be tucked away after reading, not displayed out on a bookshelf.
Of course, romance novels have been around for way longer
than the one hundred years of meals and Boone. Jane
Austen and Charlotte Bronte are considered icons of the genre,
telling stories of heterosexual women and men. But if you've
never read a romance novel before, we can tell you
(07:05):
they all mostly follow the same pattern. Women meets men
and they must overcome some personal struggle to finally understand
that they do indeed love each other, and then it
ends with a fairly happy ever after vibe. But when
journalists Dame Jilly Cooper's Rutshier Chronicles novels started to be
released in the mid nineteen eighties, the landscape was changing.
(07:26):
Not only were the characters falling in love. What if
no one ever loves me?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I'm mess you someone?
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I love you?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
They were experiencing incredible heartbreak Do.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You even really exist?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And they were getting busy between the sheets.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Too delightfully ambitious of your little brother? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I try, but well many read these stories, Dame Jilly
Cooper selling more than eleven million copies in the UK,
a lot and her nineteen eighty five book Writers making
the BBC List of one hundred Important English Language Novels
in the Love, Sex and Romance section. Still, the genre
(08:18):
was kept pushed a little to the back of the bookshelf.
That was until the likes of Julia Quinn and Sarah J.
Mass arrived on the scene. Julia Quinn is the author
behind the Bridgeton series kicking off with an offer from
a Gentleman in two thousand and one. The book since
made into the wildly popular TV series on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Come Your Friends, Forgive Me. I do not know what
I was thinking.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I don't very much like to be more than friends
so much more.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Fifty Shades of Gray, written by E. L. James, was
released in twenty eleven and subsequently made into a movie,
but unlike Bridgeton, Fifty Shades was seen as something a
bit more taboo, almost to be looked down on due
to its much more sexual content.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You're a satist, I'm a dominant. What does that mean?
It means I want you to willingly surrender yourself to me.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Why would I do that to pleasure more?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Many discovered Quinn's Bridgeton series retrospectively post show Nothing has
made waves in the romance, well technically romanticy genre of
late then. Sarah J. Mass' is a court of Thorns
and roses, known by its acronym Akata.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Colleague Nicole was the first to get a lot of
us here at Mamma Mia onto the Akatar series and says,
the books just hit right where you don't maybe know
your deep dark desires live.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I love the Aquitar series because I'm a thirty six
year old mother who is overwhelmed, exhausted, tired, stressed all
those really boring things, and Akata allows me to escape
to a world where there's no real problems. I mean, besides,
you know, the end of the world and all that,
But there's magic, there's money, there's saucy sex scenes, and
let's face it, as much as I'm a feminist, I think,
(10:08):
deep down I just want to be rescued.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Sarah J. Mus three series have now sold more than
thirty eight million copies worldwide. The hashtag akatar has been
used and viewed billions of times. Rebecca Yaris's Steamy Dragon
Fourth Wing series has also been a big hit, the
first book selling two million copies in just six months.
A twenty twenty three study on romance book genre sales
(10:32):
revealed that it is the highest earning fiction genre of
them all, pulling in one point four to four billion
dollars in revenue and selling over thirty nine million printed
units in twenty twenty three. It ends with US author
Colleen Hoover and Emily Henry, who's best known for her
novel Beach Read, make up the line's share of the
romance global market. Romance readers are high volume consumers, too.
(10:55):
Seventy eight percent finish a book at least once a month,
the vast majority of them through their Kindle e reader
or on their phone. The average romance reader is forty
two years old, Caucasian and married, but the eighteen to
forty four age group is bus catching up at forty
four percent, twenty nine percent admit carrying a romance novel
with them, Forty six percent read at least one a week.
(11:17):
Compared to twenty twenty one global data, the sale of
romance novels is up thirty six percent, So Ozzie's into
it too. Lillian Kovats is a sales director for publisher
Hatchet Australia. Lillian, for those who have just discovered the
romance genre, it might seem like it went from being
nowhere to being everywhere overnight, but have we actually seen
an uptick in readers of the genre in recent years.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
It really started to kick off in our market during
the COVID years, during the lockdown years, so romance really
started to serge sort of twenty twenty twenty twenty one
through to the end of twenty twenty three, the category
is up two hundred and fifty three percent on where
it was in twenty nineteen, so that is really significant growth.
In twenty twenty three, romance books are count of for
(12:02):
nearly really over sixty two million dollars worth of sales
in the Australian market, and that's continued this year. So
romance and saga books so far in twenty twenty four
are up over twelve percent, and the science fiction fantasy
portion of that, which can include some romanticy which is
a subcategory, is up over eighty percent.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So definitely still seeing.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Growth, lots of new authors coming in all the time,
and still yeah, really exciting part of the book industry.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
And which authors are we seeing are really hitting the
mark here in Australia.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
So it's still very much romance led in that sort
of that traditional romance space. We have a lot of
billionaire romance, so our top authors are people like Anna
Hong who's done lots of billionaire romance series.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Like the Twisted series.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But we are seeing some new trends coming through and
the fastest growing, as I said, is romanticy. So the
number one author in that category is one of ours,
Rebecca Yarros, with her Fourth Wing series, and that has
brought a whole lot of new people into the genre
who maybe didn't think that romance was so much for them,
or romance readers who didn't think that fantasy was for them,
and quite a lot of male readers as well. Interestingly,
(13:08):
so there are some of the lastest growing areas. Sports
romance has always done very well, and there's been some
ice hockey romance that started out. Our author Anahong has
started a Premier League romance series, so we're definitely seeing
a shift into the sport area. Cowboys are perennially popular,
so we've got Elsie Silver and Lilah Stage who are
(13:28):
at the top of the charts writing their cowboy romances.
So yeah, definitely lots of different subjtions within the very
broad romance genre.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And are we seeing any signs of that slowing down?
I know you said, sales are still looking pretty healthy
this year. Any signs that that's backing off at all?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
No, not really backing off at all. It is just
a category that keeps evolving with people's tastes. Like I said,
it really started with much more obvious contemporary romance, but
it has shifted much more into the romanticy space. We
see certain genres rise and fall as they gain popularity
on new authors come into space, but yeah, certainly overall
(14:05):
not dropping off, just a lot more of choice in
the category now.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Someone who has read some of the spiciest, sexiest, smuttiest
books in recent years is Tierney Reads, a content creator
and soon to be author herself, who regularly posts recommendations
for spicy books on TikTok and Instagram.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Books I read and loved that.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
I wouldn't want my family to know I read and
love why's that, Teerney?
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Do you know?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Maybe it's we could creed and she goes to pound
down with two step cousins. Yes, at the same time,
I never used to read spicy books. I've gone from
like zero to one hundred. I want all the trigger warnings,
I want all the semen, I want dicks, I want balls,
I want vaginas, give me everything. Give me a watch
these romance with four hot cops, and I'll disassociate and
disappear down that deep, dark hole real quick.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Teanney, You're forgiven. If you can't remember the very first
I couldn't tell you the title of the one I read.
But do you remember your first spicy book and how
it made you feel?
Speaker 6 (15:01):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Definitely. So I read my first spicy book.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
It was back in twenty twenty two, so a couple
of years ago now, and it it was called A
Court of Thorn and Roses. You've probably heard of it.
It's by Sarah J. Mass, and she's a really big
romanticy author. That's how I came across my first spicy book.
My best friends were reading it at the time and
they were just talking about it, and I felt left
out of this conversation, and one of them just said,
(15:28):
you need.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
To read this, and I did, and I spiraled it.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Talk to me about that spiral, because obviously the Sarah J. Massworld,
for those who've not read A Courd of Thorn and Roses,
is huge, and it's multi universal, and there's different series
that all sort of connecting together. And so what was
it about that first book you think that got you hooked.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
I just had no idea that there were romance books
that existed like that. I mean, of course i'd heard
of the old mills and Boons that you know, our
aunties and our mums might have hidden in a chest
in their cupboard, but I just had no idea that
there were different sub genres under the romance umbrella. So
I had no idea that fantasy could tie in romance,
(16:08):
and that sort of opened up the gate to start
exploring different subgenres under romance as well. It was just
I feel as though it was almost a little bit
empowering because while I was reading, it just opened up
different conversations with my friends, and it sort of just
didn't stop from there.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
It kind of just snowballed.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Can we talk about how it sometimes impacts your sex
life too, because many women talk about having read these
books and it really opening their eyes and sort of
reinvigorating their sex life. Would you say that you've had
that experience?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I would.
Speaker 6 (16:42):
I think that the romance novels offer a safe space
for women to explore different forms of intimacy, whether it's
you know, relationship dynamics, different sort of kinks, And I
just think by reading it provides a judgment free way
for readers to imagine what might appeal to them or
understand sort of new perspectives on attraction and pleasure. And
(17:03):
I just feel like it helps normalize talking about desire,
even when we're trying.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
To discover it.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You've mentioned the subgenres. Can you give us an idea
of just how many there are?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
To know?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
There is like way too many to list of, but
this is a safe space you can use words. Please
give us an idea of the different kinds of subgenres
you've come across in your spicy book reading journey.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
Sure, I've come across Monster smart or monster romance, which
has a little bit more sort of sci fi tied
into it, so it might be aliens. Then you've got
your lafia romances, you've got contemporary romances. I've come across
dark romance, which is actually very popular fantasy romance. And
(17:48):
then there's sort of little tropes underneath that that people
look for and it helps them shop for a book.
So there might be billionaire romance, there might be you know,
single parent romance.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Do you know what a couple of my friends are
really into, which I wasn't expecting is ice hockey romance?
Speaker 6 (18:05):
That one snack up on me as well. I don't
watch sport, but the first time I read a spicy
hockey romance book, I loved it. And I didn't know
what it was about it, and I still don't, but
there's something in it. And I remember the first book
that I read was Icebreaker by Hannah Grace, and I
think that was a lot of people stepping stone into
(18:26):
hockey romance.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
When did you start reviewing these books on social media?
And can you talk to me about the kind of
response you got when you first started doing it.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Sure, So I first started reading and reviewing these books
towards the end of twenty twenty two, So it was
just after I finished reading the Card of Thorn and
Roses series by Sarah J. Mass and that's when I
downloaded TikTok and I had never heard about book talk,
so that's when I started reading all of those. For
the most part, the response was really positive. I did
(18:56):
get the occasional more than anything. It was an occasional
man piping in sort of saying that your friends might
see this, and what will happen if your family sees this,
and it's kind of dropping that stigma and just normalizing it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, that's something you do sometimes mention in your videos
that like, oh my god, my family's going to see this.
But like, let's dive right on in. How has your
family responded to it?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Do you know what?
Speaker 6 (19:19):
They've been so positive, and they've been really really supportive
of it.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I'm married, I've been married for nearly eight years. My
husband's really supportive of it, and I.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
Think they can see that I've become a lot more
confident as a person just from reading and talking about this,
because I mean at the beginning, it wasn't an easy
thing to do, and it's not easy to jump online
and be authentic and so open about what you're reading
with people. But after a while you realize it does
become normal and there shouldn't be societal expectations around it.
(19:50):
They shouldn't be stigma around it. It's recognizing that they're valuable.
They explore emotions and relationships and human desires rather than
just spice.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
It's not like a porn movie or a graphic magazine, like,
there's a hell of a lot more to it, right.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
There is a lot more to it, and I think
a lot of people just don't necessarily realize that, and
you won't until you read it, and I can understand that,
but yeah, there is a lot more to it.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
So it's been a couple of years since you've started
doing this. I mean, I personally have seen a real
increase in both women and men sharing their sexy book recommendations,
and even men telling other men, Hey, if you're trying
to find a way to spice up your sex life,
go pick up the book your woman is reading and
get a few ideas. Like have you really seen an
explosion in this?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
Definitely I really really have, and I think that a
lot of it I actually put down to the self
published in the authors. I think that it explores diverse representation,
so I think with more genres, more relationships and characters,
I feel as though it reflects a variety of experiences
and different identities, and people can resonate with personal experiences,
(20:56):
and I just feel like it would make the reader
feel validated and more confident about expressing their love and
their experience or the connection to the book and the characters.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So definitely that's something too worth exploring in that romance
novels of old were generally heterosexual relationships, whereas modern day
spicy books are like all kinds of combinations of straight,
queer and everything in between. Right.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
Yeah, Definitely there's a movement in promoting sexual positivity for everybody,
and I think everybody can relate to love and romance
and sexual desires, and romance just doesn't exclude And that's
what I really really love about it. It resonates with
readers because they're just beginning to see characters who reflect
their lives and experiences, and it's just becoming more increasingly
(21:49):
inclusive over time, and I just think it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Why do you think it is happening now though, tiny,
because like Akatara, Cordthorne and Roses, as you mentioned, like
that was written all the way back or released back
in twenty fifteen, but many of us are only really
discovering this series now. Why do you think in twenty
twenty four it's really sort of found its niche in
book talk and in readership across the world.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
I think that platforms like Instagram, TikTok or books talk,
there's also good Reads, they've created communities of romance readers
and writers, so not only can you connect with fellow readers,
but you can also actually speak one on one with
the authors that you love. And I just feel like
these platforms have allowed open discussions about romance and smart
(22:36):
and normalizing what was once considered to be taboo and
creating excitement around you know, new releases, character tropes, spicy scenes,
and I think with the rise of ebooks and audio
books as well, it's just created.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
A much more immersive experience for readers.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
And I think that it's become a lot more accessible
because of them too.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I'd love to get your take on turning these books
into films or TV series, because we've seen Dame Deey
Cooper's books turned into the TV show Rivals, which is
now hit our screens. There's been a rumor circulating for
quite some time that Akataskar be turned into a TV show,
but the when, who and how of that still remains
a bit of a mystery. How do you feel about
bringing these characters to life, because there's going to be
(23:18):
a whole bunch of people who are like, that's not
my recent.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
I think it is really divided, but I think it
will also just expose readers and viewers to new things.
Like if you take Bridgitton for example, that was Julia
Quinn and I hadn't heard of the series before watching it,
and I knew that that really took off and it
was amazing for her. And you couldn't buy the books
(23:43):
anywhere because people wanted to continue the story and wanted
to read and wanted to immerse themselves in it.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So I think there's a real divide.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
I think it can be quite difficult, but it can
also be really exciting. It gives authors so many wonderful
opportunities as well. I'm not sure if you've heard of
The After Series by Anna Todd. So that's a movie
franchise that initially started in romance books, and that was
way back in the early twenty ten, so she was
sort of one of the OG's at the same time
(24:11):
as Fifty Shades of Gray, and she just wrote fan
fiction and it's changed her life because it's turned into
a book series, which then subsequently turned into a TV
series and movies. So I think there's definitely the risk
of people not feeling as though the characters were represented
as they were in their mind. But I think it
(24:33):
also opens up a channel for people to explore new
things and get to connect with books.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You know, So romance and romanticy readers are coming out
of the woodwork and bring it with them less shame,
more spice, an increased level of exposure to the women
who write them, and a whole lot more interesting knowledge
about what really gets them going. But of course we
won't leave your hanging. Here are some books that Tenney
says sit at the top of her recommendation list, and
(25:01):
make sure you check back in on our show notes
in January, we'll pop a link in to Tenne's new book,
The Other Brother.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
So I will always recommend the London Mistic series by
an author named Rosa Lucas. It's a trilogy and it's
about three multi multi millionaires and they're a little bit
boisterous and it's them on their little journeys to find love,
but they all come in unexpected ways. So I would
definitely recommend that to people who are looking for something
(25:27):
fun and if they've not read spicy romance books before.
Also another one is the Off Campus series by l Kennedy,
So that's a series of spicy hockey romances which will
also soon be adapted into a TV series. So I
would recommend getting onto those. That's a five book series
and they're just.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Brilliant and what would you say, is like the darkest,
most twisted one you've ever read.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
So some people will find Credence by Penelope Douglas to
be a little bit confronting only because it's a little
bit taboo.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
But I really loved that book. I really loved that
book and I recommend it a lot. And another one
would be God of Pain by Riena Kent. That's a
part of the Legacy of God's series Just Case that
I hadn't.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
Really heard of before, so it was quite enlightening.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
The Guggie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our
Executive producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by tig and
Sadler
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.