August 5, 2025 • 19 mins
The conflict in Gaza has entered a volatile new chapter, with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly ordering a full military occupation of the territory; but what does that actually mean?
This comes as one of the largest pro-Palestinian rallies in Australian history brought Sydney to a standstill over the weekend, demanding action on the escalating crisis.
And in headlines today, James Vlassakis, the youngest man convicted over the Snowtown murders, has been granted parole after 26 years in prison; Australia’s eSafety Commissioner says YouTube and Apple are failing to tackle child sexual abuse material on their platforms; Volodymyr Zelenskiy has spoken with Donald Trump about ending the war, stronger sanctions on Russia, and a $46 billion drone deal; Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan have walked the red carpet in Sydney for the Australian premiere of Freakier Friday.
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Hosts: Taylah Strano & Tahli Blackman
Guest: Dr Jessica Genauer, Senior Lecturer In International Relations at Flinders University
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey, I'm table Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily
news podcast, The Quickie. The conflict in Gaza has entered
a volatile new chapter with major implications for the region
and the world. Israeli leader Benjamin Etna, who has made
clear his intention for a full military occupation of the area.
So what would that actually look like? Before we get there,
(00:45):
He's Tarlie Blackman with the latest from the Quicki newsroom
for Wednesday, August six.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks Taylor. James Blasakas, the youngest man convicted over South
Australia's infamous Snowtown murders, has been granted parole after twenty
six years behind bars. He was found guilty of four
of the eleven killings carried out between nineteen ninety two
and nineteen ninety nine, and was sentenced to life in
prison with the minimum term ofiring in August twenty twenty five.
(01:11):
At its monthly meeting on Tuesday, the South Australian Parole
Board approved his release, stating Blasarkus no longer poses a
risk to the community. He will first move to Adelaide's
pre release center for up to twelve months to undergo resocialization.
Blasarkus was nineteen at the time of the crimes and
later gave key evidence against co offenders John Bunting and
(01:32):
Robert Wagner, who were both serving life without parole. Victim's
advocates say the decision brings renewed pain, reminding the public
that for families of murder victims, the trauma continues long
after a sentence ends. Australia's e Safety Commissioner has accused
major tech firms, especially YouTube and Apple, of failing to
act on child sexual abuse material. In a report released
(01:55):
on Wednesday, Commissioner Julie Inman Grant said the company's are
turning a blind eye to online crimes against children. YouTube
and Apple were unable to disclose the number of user
reports they receive, all the time it took to respond,
and neither the company answered basic questions about their safety measures.
Last week, the federal government included YouTube in its under
(02:16):
sixteen social media ban, as the Commissioner ad buys, reversing
its exemption. The report found widespread safety gaps, including failure
to block abuse links, poor reporting tools, and limited use
of detection technology. While Google says it's using AI and
hash matching tools to remove content, the Commissioner says many
platforms had ignored repeated warnings to improve protections. Ukrainian President
(02:40):
Violonimi Zelensky has spoken with US President Donald Trump about
ways to end the war in Ukraine, tougher sanctions on Russia,
and a major drone deal between the two countries. Trump
has reportedly given Russian President Vladimir Putin a deadline of
Friday to agree to peace or face new sanctions, including
one hundred percent tariffs on countries that buy Russian oil.
(03:02):
Zelensky said Trump is aware of ongoing Russian strikes in
Kiev and other cities. Sources close to the Kremlin say
Pudin is unlikely to back down, still aiming to take
full control of four Ukrainian regions before entering peace talks.
Zelenski also confirmed progress on a US drone deal worth
around forty six billion dollars, highlighting the growing role of
(03:24):
defense commerce in the conflict. European allies have pledged more
than one point five billion dollars in extra support with Denmark,
saying the funds will be available immediately. Hollywood stars Jamie
Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan have reunited on the red
carpet in Sydney for the Australian premiere of Disney's Freakier Friday.
(03:44):
It's been more than twenty years since the original Freaky
Friday became a global hit, and now the iconic mother
daughter duo Tess and Anna Coleman are back. In the sequel.
Anna is now a mum herself, juggling a blended family
when things once again take a seriously freaky turn. At
the Sydney premiere in Bondai Junction, both stars shared heartfelt
(04:04):
reflections on their long friendship. Jamie Lee Curtis became emotional
recalling that Lindsay Lohan was just fifteen when they filmed
the original, saying I was a mother to her then
and now I'm a mother to her again. Freaky of
Friday marks Lohan's major return to Hollywood after years away.
The stars have toured the world promoting the film, where
it's Australian cinema release set for this Thursday.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Thanks Charlie. Next an update on what's happening in Gaza.
It was a weekend of extraordinary scenes in Sydney as
the city was brought to a standstill by one of
the largest pro Palestinian rallies in recent memory. The organizers
(04:49):
of the march, the Palestinian Action Group, say up to
three hundred thousand people marched across the CBD and Tubor Bridge,
while the police put attendants at closer to ninety thousand,
but everyone agrees it was one of, if not the
largest turnouts of a public demonstration in Australia's history. Now,
this outpouring came as the world media reported last week
(05:11):
of a rising death toll in Gaza due to starvation
and attacks on Palestinians trying to access the little aid
being allowed into the area. Meanwhile, last week Kamas and
Islamic Jihad that's an ally of the terrorist organization, released
footage and images of hostages in Gaza, showing two men
who appeared weak and emaciated. Back on October seven, twenty
(05:34):
twenty three, when Hamas launched an attack on Israel, two
hundred and fifty one hostages were taken. While the numbers
are hard to pinpoint exactly right now, there's about forty
nine still being held in Palestinian territory. Twenty seven of
those hostages, the Israeli military says are dead. Yesterday, there
was another major development in the region. Israeli Prime Minister
(05:57):
Benyumin Ntnyahu has reportedly ordered the military to move ahead
with a full occupation of the Gaza Strip, a decision
that pushes the conflict into uncertain territory. A memo sent
to cabinet members suggest that Netnya, who made the call
on his own and told military leadership to either get
on board or step aside. One senior official close to
(06:19):
the Prime minister was quoted in Israeli media as saying,
the die is caste. We are going full occupation of
the Gaza Strip, despite pushback from within the israel Defense
Forces and former military leaders. Netna who reportedly plans to
seek formal backing from his cabinet. As images of these
developments circled the globe, calls for a restraint and de
(06:40):
escalation grow louder. Leaders from the UN, European Union, and
human rights organizations warned that a full occupation could make
things even more dangerous for both Palestinians and hostages inside Gaza.
Back here, at Home. Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi has called
for a ceasefire and says he's been trying to speak
directly with Netna who to push for civilian protection and
(07:03):
aid access. He's also been in touch with the leader
of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoudabas as part of those reports,
once again reiterating Australia's commitment to a two state solution
between Israel and Palestine. Australia has also pledged an additional
twenty million dollars in humanitarian aid to Gaza. Now, diplomatic
(07:23):
efforts do continue, but with the Israeli military ordered to
seize all areas of Gaza, the world is watching for
what happens next. To help us unpack the fallout from
this decision and what that could mean for the future
of the region, we're joined by senior lecturer in International
Relations at Flinders University, doctor Jessica Genawer. Jess So Benjamin
Netna who has ordered a full military occupation of Gaza,
(07:47):
what does that actually mean? What would it look like?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
So this means that essentially Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netnya
who is making official which is that the Israeli government
is not planning a full military withdrawal from the Gaza Strip,
and that in fact the end point here for the
Israeli government some kind of military presence in the Gaza strips.
(08:10):
So it remains to be seen exactly what that looks like.
It could be to the full extent as Bnniminetna, who
was suggesting of full military control by Israel over the
entire Gaza Strip, or it might look more like a
buffer zone that's under military control from Israel. But it
does seem that the Israeli government has no intention of
(08:31):
a full military withdrawal from Gaza.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So we spoke about this previously, this idea of well
what is the end goal for Israel and for Benumintnya
who And at that point, jess You had said that
maybe they didn't even know what the point in this
conflict was and what they were continuing to do. Does
this feel like maybe there's more of a firmed up
idea of what the end goal is now?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I would say yes and no, because even something like
a military occupation of the Gaza Strip is not really
any sort of clear political end goal for Israel. So
there was this objective of eliminating Hamas as any kind
of governance or fighting force. But that's actually quite an
(09:18):
elusive goal that would be almost impossible to achieve because
when would you stop and say, yes, that objective has
been achieved. So at this point in time, her Maas
has certainly been severely degraded. Most of the Hamas level
of leadership that were in control when October seven happened
have essentially been assassinated since then, So you could say, yes,
(09:43):
a fair amount of that objective has already been achieved,
but you're never going to be able to say every
single person who ever took up arms for Hamas has
been completely eliminated. And then if we look at a
broader political objective, reoccupying the gars of Strip from Israel's perspective,
really just perpetuates an ongoing and intractable complex that's been
(10:06):
going on for many decades prior to those October seven
attacks from Hamas and then Israel's response to those attacks
with the military operation in the Gaza Strip, So it
still doesn't seem like there's any game plan or broader
strategy beyond military engagement. So ongoing military operations that are
(10:27):
going to lead to the kind of humanitarian situation that
we're seeing right now in the Gaza Strip and aren't
really resolving the conflict at any kind of more substantial level.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So this is a conflict, as we know, between Israel
and Hamas, the terrorist organization. But of course people living
in that area, that place that is constantly under fire
are Palestinians who don't necessarily have absolutely anything to do
with Hamas. What would it mean for them, the Palestinians
currently living in Gaza if a full military occupation were
(11:00):
to take place.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
So none of this is good news for Palestinians living
in the Gaza Strip. People living in Gaza, the main
concern right now is getting food, getting water, getting military supplied,
So that's going to be the key focus of people
currently living in the Gaza Strip. This isn't going to
be helped by Israeli military presence in the Gaza Strip.
(11:25):
One of the things about the whole conflict that makes
it so complex and the situation so dire for people
in the Gaza Strip is that there's no free passage
in and out of Gaza for people who live there,
So really people within the strip are dependent on that
aid getting in and those borders are controlled partly by Israel,
(11:46):
partly by Egypt, but essentially Israel consolidating their military presence
is not going to alleviate that humanitarian crisis.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
What led Benjamin naw Who to make this call? Do
you think, because it is quite an escalation, do you
think maybe the hostage photos and videos that were released
last week by Hamas and Islamic g Hard had anything
to do with this?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well, that's right. I think that Binnim and Netna, who
is primarily motivated by domestic concerns and by his domestic populations,
So he has, on the one hand, people within his
own government who sit even further to the rights and
more hyper nationalists than even he is himself, and those
(12:31):
people would certainly be in favor of Israel maintaining a
military presence in Gaza. But then he also has the
broader Israeli population who, whilst they might not be happy
about the ongoing Israeli military operation in Gaza, are very
concerned about those Israeli hostages and Israeli hostages that are
known to still be alive. And we have the release
(12:53):
of videos of a couple of hostages just recently. For
Viniman Netna, who he thinking about his own political survival,
and he sort of knows that if he uses the
playbook of security, if he reinforces the narrative around Israel
being under attack and Israel's defense, that that is more
(13:14):
likely to consolidate his power domestically, which is partly why
I think he just keeps going down the road of
a military approach to the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians
and really not looking at any kind of political pathway.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
How has this move been received then, both, I guess
internally within Israel and also on the world stage, So I.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Think that those are two quite separate things. I think
that within Israel, whilst there is a large proportion of
the population who are not in favor of Binyaminetnyahu himself,
probably a majority of the population thinks first and foremost
about Israel's security and defense as a primary objective. So
(14:02):
there's probably less resistance to the idea of some kind
of ongoing military presence for the Israeli defense force in Gaza,
less resistance to that idea within Israel than there would
be internationally. So internationally, the key concern right now is
the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and getting that humanitarian belief
(14:23):
into the Gaza strip. That's the thing that is uppermost
in the minds of most countries around the world, and
even to the extent that we've seen President Trump in
the US saying that he's also not happy about the
ongoing humanitarian crisis. So in that regard, the response to
this kind of statement from Prime Minister biniam and Netnia,
who would not be one of support, It would be
(14:45):
one of thinking, well, how is that actually going to
alleviate the humanitarian situation and is it going to help
it all with those conditions on the ground.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
We know that the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanizi has
secured a phone call with the Palace did in authority.
He used that call to call for more aid and
also doubling down on our commitment to a two state solution.
We also know that Albo has been trying to a
phone call with Benjamin Etnahu. What do you think the
nature of that call would be. What would he be
saying to him if he was able to get through.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Our Prime minister would be trying to emphasize the importance
of addressing the humanitarian crisis. I think he would certainly
support for example, Israel's right to exist, in Israel's right
to defend itself, but at the same time he would
want to bring up the fact that there is real
(15:39):
humanitarian issues on the ground in Gaza and that they
need to be dealt with. Unfortunately, I don't think that
Australia is front of mind for the Israeli government. I
don't think that necessarily we would have a lot of
leverage or a lot of sway over Israeli government's decision making. However,
(16:00):
I imagine that those would be the points that Prime
Minister Albanezi would want to emphasize.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I want to talk just quickly, Jess about a little
bit close at a home here in Australia. We saw
obviously at the weekend that very very large protest that
happened across Sydney and the Sydney Harbor Bridge and other
parts of Australia as well. We know that the Prime
Minister has put forward that call again or a two
state solution for a ceasefire and more aid in Gaza. Previously,
(16:27):
the Liberal leader Susan Lee had avoided saying there was
starvation in Gaza. She dodged questions on it there's now
mixed messaging from within the Liberals and Nationals in terms
of the rest of Federal Parliament. Where did they sit
because I feel like Labor it's been pretty clear where
they are coming from when it comes to this conflict.
But what about the other parties?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So the Liberals and the Nationals are generally going to
be supportive of Israel as a nation state, and they're
going to want to differentiate themselves from the Labor Party.
And actually, in this case, the Australian Labor Party has
taken a relatively centrist dance. So I think it's been
(17:09):
tricky for the coalition to distinguish themselves from Labor in
this instance. Given what we're seeing regarding the humanitarian crisis
and the kind of pictures that are coming out, I
think that this really goes across the political spectrum in Australia,
that populations are distressed to see the kind of conditions
(17:31):
on the ground in Gaza, and so I think that
the Liberals and the Nationals are aware, and I think
that's what led to Suzanlai's comments that they do need
to respond and condemn any kind of severe humanitarian crisis
that is becoming increasingly broadcast around the world.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Just finally, on the protest front, jess Police say that
they put figures at about ninety thousand people who attended
that Sydney rally at the weekend. Organizers say it was
closer to three hundred thousand, and an expert on crawd
management told The Guardian he also thought that it was
significantly higher than what the police estimated. Do you think
(18:11):
that's intentional that they're downplaying the number or is it
just that's how police clocked it up.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I mean, it is hard to estimate a crowd of
that size, and I think that crowd numbers do end
up inevitably becoming a political issue because it says something
about the sentiment in the broader Australian population. We know
that typically for every one person who actually goes out
(18:38):
and joins the protest, there'll be another ten or twenty
sitting at home who share similar sentiments but are actually
going to go out and protest. So as soon as
you see very large crowds, you're starting to think about, well,
what does this mean about the spread of public opinion
across the Australian society more broadly, so, yes, I think
there is a political aspect to it, But on the
(19:00):
other hand, I don't think that the exact number is
necessarily critical, in that it's obvious that there were tens
of thousands of people who were involved in the protest
over the weekend, and it's clear that that does represent
a shift in broader sentiment in Australian society, which I
think currently is starting to go across both sides of
(19:23):
the political spectrum. And I think that it's when it
becomes clear that public opinion has shifted towards a clear
majority opinion across the population that political actors really do
start to change their foreign policy stance as a result.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with
us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano
and Charlie Blackman, with audio production by Lou Hill.
You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey, I'm table Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily
news podcast, The Quickie. The conflict in Gaza has entered
a volatile new chapter with major implications for the region
and the world. Israeli leader Benjamin Etna, who has made
clear his intention for a full military occupation of the area.
So what would that actually look like? Before we get there,
(00:45):
He's Tarlie Blackman with the latest from the Quicki newsroom
for Wednesday, August six.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks Taylor. James Blasakas, the youngest man convicted over South
Australia's infamous Snowtown murders, has been granted parole after twenty
six years behind bars. He was found guilty of four
of the eleven killings carried out between nineteen ninety two
and nineteen ninety nine, and was sentenced to life in
prison with the minimum term ofiring in August twenty twenty five.
(01:11):
At its monthly meeting on Tuesday, the South Australian Parole
Board approved his release, stating Blasarkus no longer poses a
risk to the community. He will first move to Adelaide's
pre release center for up to twelve months to undergo resocialization.
Blasarkus was nineteen at the time of the crimes and
later gave key evidence against co offenders John Bunting and
(01:32):
Robert Wagner, who were both serving life without parole. Victim's
advocates say the decision brings renewed pain, reminding the public
that for families of murder victims, the trauma continues long
after a sentence ends. Australia's e Safety Commissioner has accused
major tech firms, especially YouTube and Apple, of failing to
act on child sexual abuse material. In a report released
(01:55):
on Wednesday, Commissioner Julie Inman Grant said the company's are
turning a blind eye to online crimes against children. YouTube
and Apple were unable to disclose the number of user
reports they receive, all the time it took to respond,
and neither the company answered basic questions about their safety measures.
Last week, the federal government included YouTube in its under
(02:16):
sixteen social media ban, as the Commissioner ad buys, reversing
its exemption. The report found widespread safety gaps, including failure
to block abuse links, poor reporting tools, and limited use
of detection technology. While Google says it's using AI and
hash matching tools to remove content, the Commissioner says many
platforms had ignored repeated warnings to improve protections. Ukrainian President
(02:40):
Violonimi Zelensky has spoken with US President Donald Trump about
ways to end the war in Ukraine, tougher sanctions on Russia,
and a major drone deal between the two countries. Trump
has reportedly given Russian President Vladimir Putin a deadline of
Friday to agree to peace or face new sanctions, including
one hundred percent tariffs on countries that buy Russian oil.
(03:02):
Zelensky said Trump is aware of ongoing Russian strikes in
Kiev and other cities. Sources close to the Kremlin say
Pudin is unlikely to back down, still aiming to take
full control of four Ukrainian regions before entering peace talks.
Zelenski also confirmed progress on a US drone deal worth
around forty six billion dollars, highlighting the growing role of
(03:24):
defense commerce in the conflict. European allies have pledged more
than one point five billion dollars in extra support with Denmark,
saying the funds will be available immediately. Hollywood stars Jamie
Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan have reunited on the red
carpet in Sydney for the Australian premiere of Disney's Freakier Friday.
(03:44):
It's been more than twenty years since the original Freaky
Friday became a global hit, and now the iconic mother
daughter duo Tess and Anna Coleman are back. In the sequel.
Anna is now a mum herself, juggling a blended family
when things once again take a seriously freaky turn. At
the Sydney premiere in Bondai Junction, both stars shared heartfelt
(04:04):
reflections on their long friendship. Jamie Lee Curtis became emotional
recalling that Lindsay Lohan was just fifteen when they filmed
the original, saying I was a mother to her then
and now I'm a mother to her again. Freaky of
Friday marks Lohan's major return to Hollywood after years away.
The stars have toured the world promoting the film, where
it's Australian cinema release set for this Thursday.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Thanks Charlie. Next an update on what's happening in Gaza.
It was a weekend of extraordinary scenes in Sydney as
the city was brought to a standstill by one of
the largest pro Palestinian rallies in recent memory. The organizers
(04:49):
of the march, the Palestinian Action Group, say up to
three hundred thousand people marched across the CBD and Tubor Bridge,
while the police put attendants at closer to ninety thousand,
but everyone agrees it was one of, if not the
largest turnouts of a public demonstration in Australia's history. Now,
this outpouring came as the world media reported last week
(05:11):
of a rising death toll in Gaza due to starvation
and attacks on Palestinians trying to access the little aid
being allowed into the area. Meanwhile, last week Kamas and
Islamic Jihad that's an ally of the terrorist organization, released
footage and images of hostages in Gaza, showing two men
who appeared weak and emaciated. Back on October seven, twenty
(05:34):
twenty three, when Hamas launched an attack on Israel, two
hundred and fifty one hostages were taken. While the numbers
are hard to pinpoint exactly right now, there's about forty
nine still being held in Palestinian territory. Twenty seven of
those hostages, the Israeli military says are dead. Yesterday, there
was another major development in the region. Israeli Prime Minister
(05:57):
Benyumin Ntnyahu has reportedly ordered the military to move ahead
with a full occupation of the Gaza Strip, a decision
that pushes the conflict into uncertain territory. A memo sent
to cabinet members suggest that Netnya, who made the call
on his own and told military leadership to either get
on board or step aside. One senior official close to
(06:19):
the Prime minister was quoted in Israeli media as saying,
the die is caste. We are going full occupation of
the Gaza Strip, despite pushback from within the israel Defense
Forces and former military leaders. Netna who reportedly plans to
seek formal backing from his cabinet. As images of these
developments circled the globe, calls for a restraint and de
(06:40):
escalation grow louder. Leaders from the UN, European Union, and
human rights organizations warned that a full occupation could make
things even more dangerous for both Palestinians and hostages inside Gaza.
Back here, at Home. Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi has called
for a ceasefire and says he's been trying to speak
directly with Netna who to push for civilian protection and
(07:03):
aid access. He's also been in touch with the leader
of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoudabas as part of those reports,
once again reiterating Australia's commitment to a two state solution
between Israel and Palestine. Australia has also pledged an additional
twenty million dollars in humanitarian aid to Gaza. Now, diplomatic
(07:23):
efforts do continue, but with the Israeli military ordered to
seize all areas of Gaza, the world is watching for
what happens next. To help us unpack the fallout from
this decision and what that could mean for the future
of the region, we're joined by senior lecturer in International
Relations at Flinders University, doctor Jessica Genawer. Jess So Benjamin
Netna who has ordered a full military occupation of Gaza,
(07:47):
what does that actually mean? What would it look like?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
So this means that essentially Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netnya
who is making official which is that the Israeli government
is not planning a full military withdrawal from the Gaza Strip,
and that in fact the end point here for the
Israeli government some kind of military presence in the Gaza strips.
(08:10):
So it remains to be seen exactly what that looks like.
It could be to the full extent as Bnniminetna, who
was suggesting of full military control by Israel over the
entire Gaza Strip, or it might look more like a
buffer zone that's under military control from Israel. But it
does seem that the Israeli government has no intention of
(08:31):
a full military withdrawal from Gaza.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So we spoke about this previously, this idea of well
what is the end goal for Israel and for Benumintnya
who And at that point, jess You had said that
maybe they didn't even know what the point in this
conflict was and what they were continuing to do. Does
this feel like maybe there's more of a firmed up
idea of what the end goal is now?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I would say yes and no, because even something like
a military occupation of the Gaza Strip is not really
any sort of clear political end goal for Israel. So
there was this objective of eliminating Hamas as any kind
of governance or fighting force. But that's actually quite an
(09:18):
elusive goal that would be almost impossible to achieve because
when would you stop and say, yes, that objective has
been achieved. So at this point in time, her Maas
has certainly been severely degraded. Most of the Hamas level
of leadership that were in control when October seven happened
have essentially been assassinated since then, So you could say, yes,
(09:43):
a fair amount of that objective has already been achieved,
but you're never going to be able to say every
single person who ever took up arms for Hamas has
been completely eliminated. And then if we look at a
broader political objective, reoccupying the gars of Strip from Israel's perspective,
really just perpetuates an ongoing and intractable complex that's been
(10:06):
going on for many decades prior to those October seven
attacks from Hamas and then Israel's response to those attacks
with the military operation in the Gaza Strip, So it
still doesn't seem like there's any game plan or broader
strategy beyond military engagement. So ongoing military operations that are
(10:27):
going to lead to the kind of humanitarian situation that
we're seeing right now in the Gaza Strip and aren't
really resolving the conflict at any kind of more substantial level.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
So this is a conflict, as we know, between Israel
and Hamas, the terrorist organization. But of course people living
in that area, that place that is constantly under fire
are Palestinians who don't necessarily have absolutely anything to do
with Hamas. What would it mean for them, the Palestinians
currently living in Gaza if a full military occupation were
(11:00):
to take place.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
So none of this is good news for Palestinians living
in the Gaza Strip. People living in Gaza, the main
concern right now is getting food, getting water, getting military supplied,
So that's going to be the key focus of people
currently living in the Gaza Strip. This isn't going to
be helped by Israeli military presence in the Gaza Strip.
(11:25):
One of the things about the whole conflict that makes
it so complex and the situation so dire for people
in the Gaza Strip is that there's no free passage
in and out of Gaza for people who live there,
So really people within the strip are dependent on that
aid getting in and those borders are controlled partly by Israel,
(11:46):
partly by Egypt, but essentially Israel consolidating their military presence
is not going to alleviate that humanitarian crisis.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
What led Benjamin naw Who to make this call? Do
you think, because it is quite an escalation, do you
think maybe the hostage photos and videos that were released
last week by Hamas and Islamic g Hard had anything
to do with this?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well, that's right. I think that Binnim and Netna, who
is primarily motivated by domestic concerns and by his domestic populations,
So he has, on the one hand, people within his
own government who sit even further to the rights and
more hyper nationalists than even he is himself, and those
(12:31):
people would certainly be in favor of Israel maintaining a
military presence in Gaza. But then he also has the
broader Israeli population who, whilst they might not be happy
about the ongoing Israeli military operation in Gaza, are very
concerned about those Israeli hostages and Israeli hostages that are
known to still be alive. And we have the release
(12:53):
of videos of a couple of hostages just recently. For
Viniman Netna, who he thinking about his own political survival,
and he sort of knows that if he uses the
playbook of security, if he reinforces the narrative around Israel
being under attack and Israel's defense, that that is more
(13:14):
likely to consolidate his power domestically, which is partly why
I think he just keeps going down the road of
a military approach to the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians
and really not looking at any kind of political pathway.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
How has this move been received then, both, I guess
internally within Israel and also on the world stage, So I.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Think that those are two quite separate things. I think
that within Israel, whilst there is a large proportion of
the population who are not in favor of Binyaminetnyahu himself,
probably a majority of the population thinks first and foremost
about Israel's security and defense as a primary objective. So
(14:02):
there's probably less resistance to the idea of some kind
of ongoing military presence for the Israeli defense force in Gaza,
less resistance to that idea within Israel than there would
be internationally. So internationally, the key concern right now is
the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and getting that humanitarian belief
(14:23):
into the Gaza strip. That's the thing that is uppermost
in the minds of most countries around the world, and
even to the extent that we've seen President Trump in
the US saying that he's also not happy about the
ongoing humanitarian crisis. So in that regard, the response to
this kind of statement from Prime Minister biniam and Netnia,
who would not be one of support, It would be
(14:45):
one of thinking, well, how is that actually going to
alleviate the humanitarian situation and is it going to help
it all with those conditions on the ground.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
We know that the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanizi has
secured a phone call with the Palace did in authority.
He used that call to call for more aid and
also doubling down on our commitment to a two state solution.
We also know that Albo has been trying to a
phone call with Benjamin Etnahu. What do you think the
nature of that call would be. What would he be
saying to him if he was able to get through.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Our Prime minister would be trying to emphasize the importance
of addressing the humanitarian crisis. I think he would certainly
support for example, Israel's right to exist, in Israel's right
to defend itself, but at the same time he would
want to bring up the fact that there is real
(15:39):
humanitarian issues on the ground in Gaza and that they
need to be dealt with. Unfortunately, I don't think that
Australia is front of mind for the Israeli government. I
don't think that necessarily we would have a lot of
leverage or a lot of sway over Israeli government's decision making. However,
(16:00):
I imagine that those would be the points that Prime
Minister Albanezi would want to emphasize.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I want to talk just quickly, Jess about a little
bit close at a home here in Australia. We saw
obviously at the weekend that very very large protest that
happened across Sydney and the Sydney Harbor Bridge and other
parts of Australia as well. We know that the Prime
Minister has put forward that call again or a two
state solution for a ceasefire and more aid in Gaza. Previously,
(16:27):
the Liberal leader Susan Lee had avoided saying there was
starvation in Gaza. She dodged questions on it there's now
mixed messaging from within the Liberals and Nationals in terms
of the rest of Federal Parliament. Where did they sit
because I feel like Labor it's been pretty clear where
they are coming from when it comes to this conflict.
But what about the other parties?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
So the Liberals and the Nationals are generally going to
be supportive of Israel as a nation state, and they're
going to want to differentiate themselves from the Labor Party.
And actually, in this case, the Australian Labor Party has
taken a relatively centrist dance. So I think it's been
(17:09):
tricky for the coalition to distinguish themselves from Labor in
this instance. Given what we're seeing regarding the humanitarian crisis
and the kind of pictures that are coming out, I
think that this really goes across the political spectrum in Australia,
that populations are distressed to see the kind of conditions
(17:31):
on the ground in Gaza, and so I think that
the Liberals and the Nationals are aware, and I think
that's what led to Suzanlai's comments that they do need
to respond and condemn any kind of severe humanitarian crisis
that is becoming increasingly broadcast around the world.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Just finally, on the protest front, jess Police say that
they put figures at about ninety thousand people who attended
that Sydney rally at the weekend. Organizers say it was
closer to three hundred thousand, and an expert on crawd
management told The Guardian he also thought that it was
significantly higher than what the police estimated. Do you think
(18:11):
that's intentional that they're downplaying the number or is it
just that's how police clocked it up.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I mean, it is hard to estimate a crowd of
that size, and I think that crowd numbers do end
up inevitably becoming a political issue because it says something
about the sentiment in the broader Australian population. We know
that typically for every one person who actually goes out
(18:38):
and joins the protest, there'll be another ten or twenty
sitting at home who share similar sentiments but are actually
going to go out and protest. So as soon as
you see very large crowds, you're starting to think about, well,
what does this mean about the spread of public opinion
across the Australian society more broadly, so, yes, I think
there is a political aspect to it, But on the
(19:00):
other hand, I don't think that the exact number is
necessarily critical, in that it's obvious that there were tens
of thousands of people who were involved in the protest
over the weekend, and it's clear that that does represent
a shift in broader sentiment in Australian society, which I
think currently is starting to go across both sides of
(19:23):
the political spectrum. And I think that it's when it
becomes clear that public opinion has shifted towards a clear
majority opinion across the population that political actors really do
start to change their foreign policy stance as a result.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with
us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano
and Charlie Blackman, with audio production by Lou Hill.
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