July 22, 2025 • 19 mins
Australia has joined 24 other nations in signing a renewed call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, but questions remain about whether this diplomatic push will actually work.
As the humanitarian crisis deepens and reports emerge of Palestinians being killed while waiting for aid, we examine what this latest international effort means.
And in headlines today The Prince of Darkness, lead singer of heavy metal band Black Sabbath and star of reality television Ozzy Osboure has died aged 76; Accused childcare pedophile Joshua Dale Brown's court case has been delayed as detectives say they need more time to gather evidence against him; The first person to claim the scalp of an opposition leader at a federal election Ali France, has recounted her path to parliament in an emotional first speech; According to local health officials a six-week-old infant is among 15 people who have died of starvation in the Gaza Strip in the past 24 hours, with malnutrition killing Palestinians faster than at any point in the 21-month war
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Hosts: Taylah Strano & Claire Murphy
Guest: Dr Jessica Genauer, Senior Lecturer in International Relations at Flinders University
Audio Producer: Lu Hill
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily
news podcast, The Quickie. Yesterday we awoke to the news
that Australia, along with twenty four other nations, had signed
a renewed call for seatsfire in Gaza. So will this
new push for peace actually work before we get there?
Hughes Claire Murphy with the latest from the Quicki News
(00:41):
room for Wednesday, July twenty.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Three, Thanks Taylor. The Prince of Darkness, lead singer of
heavy metal band Black Sabbath and star of reality television,
Ozzy Osbourne has died, aged seventy six. The rocker, who
is credited with being one of the founders of heavy
metal music, lived a chaotic rock star life during the
height of his band's fame, filled with drugs, alcohol and
making music. Then there was that iconic and controversial moment
(01:07):
in nineteen eighty two when during a life performance in Iowa,
Osborne bit the head off a bat, something the singer
said he knows will end up written on his Tombstone,
While he split with the band in the late seventies
due to his excessive substance abuse issues. Osborne went on
to have a successful solo career, crediting his later in
life success to his wife Sharon, who start alongside him
(01:28):
in the two thousand and two reality show The Osborne's.
It was through the show that people saw a different
side to the Prince of Darkness, showing inside into the
life of an aging rock star still struggling with staying
sober and having disagreements with two of his younger children,
Kelly and Jack. Black. Sabbath got back together in twenty
eleven to play a farewell tour, also releasing a new
album in twenty thirteen, which top both UK and US chants,
(01:52):
Osborne saying he didn't like how he and the band
had ended back in the day and felt like he
could now rest his head and die happy man. His
health deteriorated over time, and he stopped performing with the
band in twenty seventeen and had to stop touring as
a solo artist in twenty twenty three, but not before
performing in the closing ceremony of the twenty twenty two
UK Commonwealth Games. Earlier this year, he announced his last
(02:14):
ever show at his beloved football team, Aston Villa's stadium,
singing from a black throne that rose up from the
depths of the stage below. His family released a statement
saying it is with more sadness than mere words can
convey that we have to report that our beloved Ozzie
Osbourne has passed away this morning. He was with his
family and surrounded by love. We ask everyone to respect
(02:35):
our family privacy at this time. Accused pedophile Joshua Dale
Brown's court case has been delayed as detectives say they
need more time to gather evidence against him. The childcare
worker did not appear for a brief hearing in the
Melbourne Magistrate's Court yesterday when prosecutors applied to extend his
committal mentioned date. Brown was due to return to court
in September, but Magistrate Donna Beacos on Tuesday granted the
(02:58):
prosecution's application to push his next hearing back to February ten.
She accepted detectives needed more time for their investigation and
it was likely more charges would be laid in the interim.
It's a led which Brown abused eight children aged under
two at a Point Cook Center in Melbourne Southwest between
April twenty twenty two and January twenty twenty three. The
Creative Garden Early Learning Center was one of the twenty
(03:21):
four childcare sites Brown worked out across Melbourne between January
twenty seventeen and his arrest. The charge sheets state he
intentionally sexually touched an unknown child where the touching was
contrary to community standards of acceptable conduct, on thirteen separate occasions.
Brown is also accused of producing and transmitting child abuse material,
engaging in sexual activity in the presence of children, and
(03:44):
sexually penetrating children under the age of twelve. According to
local health officials, a six week old infant is amongst
fifteen people who've died of starvation in the Gaza Strip
in the past twenty four hours, with malnutrition killing Palestinians
faster than at any point in the twenty one month war.
The family of the child, Yusuf, could not find baby
formula to feed him, his uncle Adam al Safidi, explaining
(04:08):
that they couldn't get milk any anywhere, and even if
they did, it's one hundred dollars US for a tub.
Three of the other Palestinians who died of hunger over
the last day, were also children. Israeli forces have killed
nearly sixty thousand Palestinians in airstrikes, shelling and shootings since
the launch of their assault on the Gaza Strip in
response to attacks on Israel by the Hamas militant group
(04:29):
that killed twelve hundred people and captured more than two
hundred and fifty hostages. In October twenty twenty three. For
the first time since the war began, Palestinian officials say
dozens and now also dying of hunger. The first person
to claim the scalp of an opposition leader at a
federal election has recounted her path to Parliament In an
emotional first speech. Dixon MP Ali France, who unseated former
(04:52):
Opposition leader Peter Dutton at the may Pole, spoke of
the painful loss of her nineteen year old son, Henry,
who died from leukemia in February twenty twenty four after
an eighteen month battle. In her first speech to Parliament,
she spoke of her late son's courage and him being
the drive behind her campaign. He told her many times
that this election was her time. He was convinced she
(05:13):
would win and said a number of times. Don't make
me the excuse for you not doing important things. She
went on to say his words his courage were with
her every day of the campaign and that Henry was
instrumental in getting her to this place. Miss Franz says
her epic journey to sitting in Federal Parliament was not
part of any grand plan, but rather the result of
hundreds of little steps. That's the latest news headlines, and
(05:36):
if you're after more celebrity news, head to link in
our show notes for the spills daily entertainment headlines.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Thanks Claire. Next, the latest call for an end to
the war in Gaza. Yesterday's episode of The Quickie focused
on a new era of Australian politics. But as sitting
of the forty eighth Parliament got underway inside Parliament House,
outside a three day rally was concluding. Thousands of people
(06:04):
came together demanding the Australian government take a tougher stance
and impose real sanctions on Israel for their part in
the humanitarian crisis still unfolding in Gaza. Now, as all
of that was happening, Australia's Foreign Minister, Pennywoe Co signed
a joint statement with twenty four other countries demanding that
Israel end its more on the Gaza Strip and lift
(06:26):
all restrictions on aid. Reported numbers show seventeen thousand Palestinian
children have now been killed by Israeli military action in
Gaza during the twenty two month long conflict. Recent reports
verified by the United Nations say that more than eight
hundred people have died while trying to get food and
aid in Gaza. Many of these debts happened near new
(06:48):
distribution centers managed by a local organization called the Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation, which is supported by the United States and Israel. Now.
This group began working after aid delivery by the United
Nations was reduced. Some international aid groups and UN officials
have raised concerns about the new system and its impact
(07:09):
on safety and humanitarian access. Back to that joint statement.
Amongst Australia, signatories include New Zealand, Japan, and a host
of European countries, but two prominent names are missing from
that statement, the United States and Germany, who've chosen not
to add their voices. American officials have described the joint
letter as disgusting, and Germany, while expressing deep concern privately
(07:33):
have refrained from the coordinated step, along with a handful
of other European states. That raises a tough question. Without
broad international unity, including Israel's most powerful ally, how much
hope is there that this diplomatic pressure will actually lead
to change. For their part, Israel promptly rejected the letter,
(07:54):
calling it disconnected from reality and accusing the signatories of
sending the wrong message to Hamas. Meanwhile, the humanitarian cost
does grow. Food supplies are running out, medical services have crumbled,
and more than two million guns, half of them children
now face unspeakable levels of suffering. The United Nations and
(08:16):
UNICEF say Gaza is the deadliest place in the world
right now to be a child.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
So what's next?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Will this push from Australia and twenty four other key
allies make a difference? Is there any chance of a
permanent ceasefire to help us unpack it all? We're joined
by seeing the lecturer in international relations at Flinders University,
doctor Jessicenauer. Jess Now, this is not the first time
that nations have bounded together calling for a seasfire like this,
signing a joint statement does this time, though, seem different
(08:47):
to you.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So I think that what we're seeing is an intensification
of activity from countries primarily in Europe, but also including
European partners such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand in
this case also Japan, calling for something to change, something
(09:08):
to shift in the humanitarian crisis that we're seeing ongoing
in the Gaza Strip and the ongoing war between Israel
and Hamas and all of the fallout and human costs
from that war. However, at the same time, whilst this
does seem symbolically important and that maybe these type of
(09:31):
statements are becoming a little more widespread in terms of
the number of countries that are signing up, we're still
not really seeing anything tangible coming out of these sort
of efforts. So, yes, there's a statement. Yes, the statement
calls for a ceasefire, calls for the release of hostages,
calls for an end to the humanitarian crisis, but it
(09:52):
doesn't actually impose any kind of costs if those actions
do not take place.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So notably, of the twenty five nations who did co sign,
the United States and other countries like Germany did not
sign this latest call immediate seats fire can you give
us a bit of insight into why that might be.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, that's right. So importantly Germany didn't sign who kind
of have their own relationship with Israel and have been
very reticent to be critical of Israel, even though they
have started to become a little more critical of some
aspects of what's happening since Israel's response to those October
seven attacks from Hamas, and some of that goes all
(10:36):
the way back to the Second World War and then
obviously the Holocaust and the ongoing relationship between Germany and
Israel as a result of that. I think the other
country that we really need to pay attention to is
the United States, and very significantly, the United States is
not a signatory to this statement, and in many ways
that does make the statement quite toothless, because, yes, you
(11:01):
can put out a declaration, but the question is if
you're trying to change the behavior of a state. So,
if this group of countries is actually trying to change
israel behavior, what is the mechanism or the pathway to
actually change a state's behavior. That state would need to
believe that there are going to be costs imposed on
them if they do not comply with what's being requested,
(11:24):
and as we've seen, the United States is really probably
the only country that has that kind of leverage currently
over Israel and could actually compel the Israeli government to
change policy or change TAC if they wanted to. But
it's another question whether the Trump administration will pursue that path.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It's interesting, though, right because Donald Trump himself has touted
being able to get this ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel.
He's been quite vocal about wanting that to be the case,
but they haven't signed on to this document. What would
it take for the US to sign on?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, that's right. So I don't think that the US
under a Trump administration would ever sign a sort of collaborative,
multi party declaration such as this, because it's just not
really the modus operandi of the Trump government. But what
I do think we would see is that Trump himself
and his administration would very much like to see some
(12:24):
kind of cessation of hostilities or more permanent ceasefire in
the Israel Hamas war, and they would like to claim
exclusive credit for that unilaterally as the United States. Now,
I think that what Trump is finding is that pushing
towards a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas is much more
complicated than, for example, the ceasefire that took effect between
(12:46):
Iran and Israel, because essentially Iran and Israel were both
willing to agree to the terms of that ceasefire, Whereas
between Israel and Hamas it's more complicated because there are
just red lines for both sides that they are not
willing to agree to and that the US really hasn't
managed to make much movement on, which is around number one,
(13:09):
will there remain an Israeli military presence in the Gaza
Strip And that's a real indivisible issue between the two sides.
And then also what will be the governance of the
Gaza Strip? And on those two issues, we haven't managed
to get any agreement between Israel and Hamas.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Jess, we spoke to you back in August last year,
specifically about what is acceptable in war. We've seen so
many horrific reports coming out of this part of the
world in the last eighteen odd months. Does targeting people
waiting for aid land in that territory of what is
acceptable in war or have we crossed into another point here,
(13:47):
because we saw lots of reports in the last week
or so about hundreds of people being targeted as they
waited to receive their aid, their food, their water rations,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
One of the core principles of international humanitarian law is
that countries must make a distinction between combatants and non combatants.
And that's because even in war zones which are by
their very nature quite inhumane, because people are trying to
kill other people, which is ultimately an inhumane act, at
(14:17):
the same time, we want to be able to ensure
that people who are existing within those war zones can
still remain alive, can still get access to basic food stuffs, water, medicines,
et cetera. Now it does seem to be the case
that in Gaza, approximately two million people still in Gaza
(14:38):
are not getting free access to food, to clean water,
to medicines. So, yes, that is an area where as
we often see with international law, arguments are made to
both sides, and it's not that with international law it's
always clear cut. But I think that we can say
with the escalating humanitarian crisis in Gaza that we are
(15:00):
seeing a situation where the general population is not getting
access to the basic needs that they require in order
to live in a decent and reasonable way, and that
is one of those core principles. There should be a
distinction between combatants and non combatants in a war zone.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
What's this done to Israel's standing in the global community?
I mean, the International Criminal Court issued to rest warrants
for Benjamin Etnahu and the former defense minister you are
gallant back in November last year. How does the rest
of the world in general see and interact with Israel
at this point in time.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So I think that after Hamas's attacks on October seventh,
twenty twenty three, there was actually a lot of outrage
looking on at those attacks, and there was a lot
of sympathy for Israel in some ways as a result
of those events. But I think that since then, as
we've seen the air strikes continue on the Gaza Strip
(16:00):
and the borders to the Gaza Strip are essentially closed
and enough aid is not getting in for the people
who are there. So as we're seeing this situation he
knew and grind on month after months, I think we
are definitely seeing a decline in support from Israel from
countries who are even quite strong supporters of Israel. So
(16:20):
we've seen the Australian government has typically had quite a
good relationship with Israel, and I think in some ways
wants to maintain that across some dimensions. We have countries
like the UK that have had a good and long
standing relationship with Israel, but we are seeing increasingly countries
speaking out and saying, look, it's not that we don't
support Israel at all, it's not that we don't support
(16:42):
Israel's right to exist, but there has to be some
action now taken to address the clear humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned Australia there. Does it
feel like maybe the Prime Minister is taking a more
hardline approach? I mean, last week we saw him describe
the reported killings of those Palestinians seeking aid as completely
indefensible and that Israel is losing support by its own actions.
Do we feel like maybe the Toney shifting ever so
slightly within our own government?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think that overall the Albanesi government has taken quite
a cautious approach to their stance on Israel, and some
of that was before the last federal election, where they
were really trying to make sure that they didn't come
out too strongly. I think to either side in some ways,
they made some statements condemning Israel's actions, but at the
(17:33):
same time didn't really follow those up with anything further.
I think we're seeing a slight shift in tone, but
I think that this is very much coming along with
Australia's partners and allies around the world, with the exclusion
of the United States, but partners and allies in Europe
Canada who are making even stronger statements themselves. So I
(17:56):
think that under that umbrella, Australian government is feeling a
little more comfortable to start to change tone themselves without
stepping out too far ahead of what our partners around
the world a saying and doing. So I would say overall, yes,
a slight shift in tone, but a generally cautious approach
from the Albanese government.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
All right, just what happens now? Then? Twenty five of
these nations have signed onto this push for immediate ceasefire.
Israel has already rejected the statement, saying that the situation
is the fault of Hamas. Where do we go from here?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
So I don't honestly think that this statement will be
the deciding factor. I think the deciding factor will be
does Trump actually try to put a large amount of
pressure on the Israeli Prime Minister to accept a cessation
of hostilities. We know that Hamas there are ongoing negotiations
that involve Katar as well. We know that Hamas would
(18:49):
accept some kind of cessation of hostilities, but they would
like a more permanent ceasefire. There are still those sticking
points between Israel and Hamas on the details of that agreement,
Israel saying they would agree, but with certain points that
Hamas doesn't agree to. So I think the question is,
would President Trump really apply a lot of pressure on
bidimin Netna to get to at a minimum a sixty
(19:12):
day ceasefire, and then we might see that occurring, although
it still leaves in doubt a longer and more permanent
ceasefire agreement.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with
us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano
and Clare Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.
You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily
news podcast, The Quickie. Yesterday we awoke to the news
that Australia, along with twenty four other nations, had signed
a renewed call for seatsfire in Gaza. So will this
new push for peace actually work before we get there?
Hughes Claire Murphy with the latest from the Quicki News
(00:41):
room for Wednesday, July twenty.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Three, Thanks Taylor. The Prince of Darkness, lead singer of
heavy metal band Black Sabbath and star of reality television,
Ozzy Osbourne has died, aged seventy six. The rocker, who
is credited with being one of the founders of heavy
metal music, lived a chaotic rock star life during the
height of his band's fame, filled with drugs, alcohol and
making music. Then there was that iconic and controversial moment
(01:07):
in nineteen eighty two when during a life performance in Iowa,
Osborne bit the head off a bat, something the singer
said he knows will end up written on his Tombstone,
While he split with the band in the late seventies
due to his excessive substance abuse issues. Osborne went on
to have a successful solo career, crediting his later in
life success to his wife Sharon, who start alongside him
(01:28):
in the two thousand and two reality show The Osborne's.
It was through the show that people saw a different
side to the Prince of Darkness, showing inside into the
life of an aging rock star still struggling with staying
sober and having disagreements with two of his younger children,
Kelly and Jack. Black. Sabbath got back together in twenty
eleven to play a farewell tour, also releasing a new
album in twenty thirteen, which top both UK and US chants,
(01:52):
Osborne saying he didn't like how he and the band
had ended back in the day and felt like he
could now rest his head and die happy man. His
health deteriorated over time, and he stopped performing with the
band in twenty seventeen and had to stop touring as
a solo artist in twenty twenty three, but not before
performing in the closing ceremony of the twenty twenty two
UK Commonwealth Games. Earlier this year, he announced his last
(02:14):
ever show at his beloved football team, Aston Villa's stadium,
singing from a black throne that rose up from the
depths of the stage below. His family released a statement
saying it is with more sadness than mere words can
convey that we have to report that our beloved Ozzie
Osbourne has passed away this morning. He was with his
family and surrounded by love. We ask everyone to respect
(02:35):
our family privacy at this time. Accused pedophile Joshua Dale
Brown's court case has been delayed as detectives say they
need more time to gather evidence against him. The childcare
worker did not appear for a brief hearing in the
Melbourne Magistrate's Court yesterday when prosecutors applied to extend his
committal mentioned date. Brown was due to return to court
in September, but Magistrate Donna Beacos on Tuesday granted the
(02:58):
prosecution's application to push his next hearing back to February ten.
She accepted detectives needed more time for their investigation and
it was likely more charges would be laid in the interim.
It's a led which Brown abused eight children aged under
two at a Point Cook Center in Melbourne Southwest between
April twenty twenty two and January twenty twenty three. The
Creative Garden Early Learning Center was one of the twenty
(03:21):
four childcare sites Brown worked out across Melbourne between January
twenty seventeen and his arrest. The charge sheets state he
intentionally sexually touched an unknown child where the touching was
contrary to community standards of acceptable conduct, on thirteen separate occasions.
Brown is also accused of producing and transmitting child abuse material,
engaging in sexual activity in the presence of children, and
(03:44):
sexually penetrating children under the age of twelve. According to
local health officials, a six week old infant is amongst
fifteen people who've died of starvation in the Gaza Strip
in the past twenty four hours, with malnutrition killing Palestinians
faster than at any point in the twenty one month war.
The family of the child, Yusuf, could not find baby
formula to feed him, his uncle Adam al Safidi, explaining
(04:08):
that they couldn't get milk any anywhere, and even if
they did, it's one hundred dollars US for a tub.
Three of the other Palestinians who died of hunger over
the last day, were also children. Israeli forces have killed
nearly sixty thousand Palestinians in airstrikes, shelling and shootings since
the launch of their assault on the Gaza Strip in
response to attacks on Israel by the Hamas militant group
(04:29):
that killed twelve hundred people and captured more than two
hundred and fifty hostages. In October twenty twenty three. For
the first time since the war began, Palestinian officials say
dozens and now also dying of hunger. The first person
to claim the scalp of an opposition leader at a
federal election has recounted her path to Parliament In an
emotional first speech. Dixon MP Ali France, who unseated former
(04:52):
Opposition leader Peter Dutton at the may Pole, spoke of
the painful loss of her nineteen year old son, Henry,
who died from leukemia in February twenty twenty four after
an eighteen month battle. In her first speech to Parliament,
she spoke of her late son's courage and him being
the drive behind her campaign. He told her many times
that this election was her time. He was convinced she
(05:13):
would win and said a number of times. Don't make
me the excuse for you not doing important things. She
went on to say his words his courage were with
her every day of the campaign and that Henry was
instrumental in getting her to this place. Miss Franz says
her epic journey to sitting in Federal Parliament was not
part of any grand plan, but rather the result of
hundreds of little steps. That's the latest news headlines, and
(05:36):
if you're after more celebrity news, head to link in
our show notes for the spills daily entertainment headlines.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Thanks Claire. Next, the latest call for an end to
the war in Gaza. Yesterday's episode of The Quickie focused
on a new era of Australian politics. But as sitting
of the forty eighth Parliament got underway inside Parliament House,
outside a three day rally was concluding. Thousands of people
(06:04):
came together demanding the Australian government take a tougher stance
and impose real sanctions on Israel for their part in
the humanitarian crisis still unfolding in Gaza. Now, as all
of that was happening, Australia's Foreign Minister, Pennywoe Co signed
a joint statement with twenty four other countries demanding that
Israel end its more on the Gaza Strip and lift
(06:26):
all restrictions on aid. Reported numbers show seventeen thousand Palestinian
children have now been killed by Israeli military action in
Gaza during the twenty two month long conflict. Recent reports
verified by the United Nations say that more than eight
hundred people have died while trying to get food and
aid in Gaza. Many of these debts happened near new
(06:48):
distribution centers managed by a local organization called the Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation, which is supported by the United States and Israel. Now.
This group began working after aid delivery by the United
Nations was reduced. Some international aid groups and UN officials
have raised concerns about the new system and its impact
(07:09):
on safety and humanitarian access. Back to that joint statement.
Amongst Australia, signatories include New Zealand, Japan, and a host
of European countries, but two prominent names are missing from
that statement, the United States and Germany, who've chosen not
to add their voices. American officials have described the joint
letter as disgusting, and Germany, while expressing deep concern privately
(07:33):
have refrained from the coordinated step, along with a handful
of other European states. That raises a tough question. Without
broad international unity, including Israel's most powerful ally, how much
hope is there that this diplomatic pressure will actually lead
to change. For their part, Israel promptly rejected the letter,
(07:54):
calling it disconnected from reality and accusing the signatories of
sending the wrong message to Hamas. Meanwhile, the humanitarian cost
does grow. Food supplies are running out, medical services have crumbled,
and more than two million guns, half of them children
now face unspeakable levels of suffering. The United Nations and
(08:16):
UNICEF say Gaza is the deadliest place in the world
right now to be a child.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
So what's next?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Will this push from Australia and twenty four other key
allies make a difference? Is there any chance of a
permanent ceasefire to help us unpack it all? We're joined
by seeing the lecturer in international relations at Flinders University,
doctor Jessicenauer. Jess Now, this is not the first time
that nations have bounded together calling for a seasfire like this,
signing a joint statement does this time, though, seem different
(08:47):
to you.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So I think that what we're seeing is an intensification
of activity from countries primarily in Europe, but also including
European partners such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand in
this case also Japan, calling for something to change, something
(09:08):
to shift in the humanitarian crisis that we're seeing ongoing
in the Gaza Strip and the ongoing war between Israel
and Hamas and all of the fallout and human costs
from that war. However, at the same time, whilst this
does seem symbolically important and that maybe these type of
(09:31):
statements are becoming a little more widespread in terms of
the number of countries that are signing up, we're still
not really seeing anything tangible coming out of these sort
of efforts. So, yes, there's a statement. Yes, the statement
calls for a ceasefire, calls for the release of hostages,
calls for an end to the humanitarian crisis, but it
(09:52):
doesn't actually impose any kind of costs if those actions
do not take place.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So notably, of the twenty five nations who did co sign,
the United States and other countries like Germany did not
sign this latest call immediate seats fire can you give
us a bit of insight into why that might be.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, that's right. So importantly Germany didn't sign who kind
of have their own relationship with Israel and have been
very reticent to be critical of Israel, even though they
have started to become a little more critical of some
aspects of what's happening since Israel's response to those October
seven attacks from Hamas, and some of that goes all
(10:36):
the way back to the Second World War and then
obviously the Holocaust and the ongoing relationship between Germany and
Israel as a result of that. I think the other
country that we really need to pay attention to is
the United States, and very significantly, the United States is
not a signatory to this statement, and in many ways
that does make the statement quite toothless, because, yes, you
(11:01):
can put out a declaration, but the question is if
you're trying to change the behavior of a state. So,
if this group of countries is actually trying to change
israel behavior, what is the mechanism or the pathway to
actually change a state's behavior. That state would need to
believe that there are going to be costs imposed on
them if they do not comply with what's being requested,
(11:24):
and as we've seen, the United States is really probably
the only country that has that kind of leverage currently
over Israel and could actually compel the Israeli government to
change policy or change TAC if they wanted to. But
it's another question whether the Trump administration will pursue that path.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It's interesting, though, right because Donald Trump himself has touted
being able to get this ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel.
He's been quite vocal about wanting that to be the case,
but they haven't signed on to this document. What would
it take for the US to sign on?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, that's right. So I don't think that the US
under a Trump administration would ever sign a sort of collaborative,
multi party declaration such as this, because it's just not
really the modus operandi of the Trump government. But what
I do think we would see is that Trump himself
and his administration would very much like to see some
(12:24):
kind of cessation of hostilities or more permanent ceasefire in
the Israel Hamas war, and they would like to claim
exclusive credit for that unilaterally as the United States. Now,
I think that what Trump is finding is that pushing
towards a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas is much more
complicated than, for example, the ceasefire that took effect between
(12:46):
Iran and Israel, because essentially Iran and Israel were both
willing to agree to the terms of that ceasefire, Whereas
between Israel and Hamas it's more complicated because there are
just red lines for both sides that they are not
willing to agree to and that the US really hasn't
managed to make much movement on, which is around number one,
(13:09):
will there remain an Israeli military presence in the Gaza
Strip And that's a real indivisible issue between the two sides.
And then also what will be the governance of the
Gaza Strip? And on those two issues, we haven't managed
to get any agreement between Israel and Hamas.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Jess, we spoke to you back in August last year,
specifically about what is acceptable in war. We've seen so
many horrific reports coming out of this part of the
world in the last eighteen odd months. Does targeting people
waiting for aid land in that territory of what is
acceptable in war or have we crossed into another point here,
(13:47):
because we saw lots of reports in the last week
or so about hundreds of people being targeted as they
waited to receive their aid, their food, their water rations,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
One of the core principles of international humanitarian law is
that countries must make a distinction between combatants and non combatants.
And that's because even in war zones which are by
their very nature quite inhumane, because people are trying to
kill other people, which is ultimately an inhumane act, at
(14:17):
the same time, we want to be able to ensure
that people who are existing within those war zones can
still remain alive, can still get access to basic food stuffs, water, medicines,
et cetera. Now it does seem to be the case
that in Gaza, approximately two million people still in Gaza
(14:38):
are not getting free access to food, to clean water,
to medicines. So, yes, that is an area where as
we often see with international law, arguments are made to
both sides, and it's not that with international law it's
always clear cut. But I think that we can say
with the escalating humanitarian crisis in Gaza that we are
(15:00):
seeing a situation where the general population is not getting
access to the basic needs that they require in order
to live in a decent and reasonable way, and that
is one of those core principles. There should be a
distinction between combatants and non combatants in a war zone.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
What's this done to Israel's standing in the global community?
I mean, the International Criminal Court issued to rest warrants
for Benjamin Etnahu and the former defense minister you are
gallant back in November last year. How does the rest
of the world in general see and interact with Israel
at this point in time.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
So I think that after Hamas's attacks on October seventh,
twenty twenty three, there was actually a lot of outrage
looking on at those attacks, and there was a lot
of sympathy for Israel in some ways as a result
of those events. But I think that since then, as
we've seen the air strikes continue on the Gaza Strip
(16:00):
and the borders to the Gaza Strip are essentially closed
and enough aid is not getting in for the people
who are there. So as we're seeing this situation he
knew and grind on month after months, I think we
are definitely seeing a decline in support from Israel from
countries who are even quite strong supporters of Israel. So
(16:20):
we've seen the Australian government has typically had quite a
good relationship with Israel, and I think in some ways
wants to maintain that across some dimensions. We have countries
like the UK that have had a good and long
standing relationship with Israel, but we are seeing increasingly countries
speaking out and saying, look, it's not that we don't
support Israel at all, it's not that we don't support
(16:42):
Israel's right to exist, but there has to be some
action now taken to address the clear humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned Australia there. Does it
feel like maybe the Prime Minister is taking a more
hardline approach? I mean, last week we saw him describe
the reported killings of those Palestinians seeking aid as completely
indefensible and that Israel is losing support by its own actions.
Do we feel like maybe the Toney shifting ever so
slightly within our own government?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think that overall the Albanesi government has taken quite
a cautious approach to their stance on Israel, and some
of that was before the last federal election, where they
were really trying to make sure that they didn't come
out too strongly. I think to either side in some ways,
they made some statements condemning Israel's actions, but at the
(17:33):
same time didn't really follow those up with anything further.
I think we're seeing a slight shift in tone, but
I think that this is very much coming along with
Australia's partners and allies around the world, with the exclusion
of the United States, but partners and allies in Europe
Canada who are making even stronger statements themselves. So I
(17:56):
think that under that umbrella, Australian government is feeling a
little more comfortable to start to change tone themselves without
stepping out too far ahead of what our partners around
the world a saying and doing. So I would say overall, yes,
a slight shift in tone, but a generally cautious approach
from the Albanese government.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
All right, just what happens now? Then? Twenty five of
these nations have signed onto this push for immediate ceasefire.
Israel has already rejected the statement, saying that the situation
is the fault of Hamas. Where do we go from here?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
So I don't honestly think that this statement will be
the deciding factor. I think the deciding factor will be
does Trump actually try to put a large amount of
pressure on the Israeli Prime Minister to accept a cessation
of hostilities. We know that Hamas there are ongoing negotiations
that involve Katar as well. We know that Hamas would
(18:49):
accept some kind of cessation of hostilities, but they would
like a more permanent ceasefire. There are still those sticking
points between Israel and Hamas on the details of that agreement,
Israel saying they would agree, but with certain points that
Hamas doesn't agree to. So I think the question is,
would President Trump really apply a lot of pressure on
bidimin Netna to get to at a minimum a sixty
(19:12):
day ceasefire, and then we might see that occurring, although
it still leaves in doubt a longer and more permanent
ceasefire agreement.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with
us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano
and Clare Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.
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