April 4, 2025 • 13 mins
Netflix's confronting new series Adolescence has everyone talking about how young boys are being exposed to dangerous online ideologies and incel culture.
But beyond just highlighting the problem, what can actually be done to protect our kids from this digital rabbit hole?
THE END BITS
Support independent women's media
Check out The Quicky Instagram here
Tell us what's important to you this election: Take the Mamamia Votes survey here
GET IN TOUCH
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice note or email us at thequicky@mamamia.com.au
CREDITS
Hosts: Taylah Strano & Claire Murphy
Guests: Simone Heng, Human Connection Specialist & Author of Let's Talk About Loneliness
Executive Producer: Taylah Strano
Audio Producer: Lu Hill
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hi It's Analyse. Just
dropping into your feed because I wanted to share this
episode of Mamma MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie,
because host Taylor does a deep dive on the Netflix
series Adolescence. Now, if you're a parent of teen or tweens,
(00:37):
you have watched it. You are terrified and you are
left scratching your head thinking where to from here.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So Taylor has got an expert on board, and she's
going to hold our hands, our very terrified hands, as
we navigate this uncharted territory. What do we do with
our teens and tweens? How do we keep them safe?
Is it even possible? So I really wanted to share
this episode for all of the other terrified parents of
(01:05):
teens and tweens. So deep breath, We've got this.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hey, I'm Taylor Strado. This is Mamma Mere's twice daily
news podcast, The Quickie. If you've watched Netflix's new series Adolescence,
you've probably been left with the same gut wrenching question
I have, what the hell are we supposed to do
about all of this, Jamie?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
If you do not situ fucking way down, do not
tell me where to say down.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
You do not control Why look at me now?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It shows us just how early young boys are being
exposed to dangerous online ideologies. But knowing the problem exists
isn't enough anymore. We need solutions next answering the question
Adolescence asks. Like everyone else, I've been watching Adolescents on
(01:57):
Netflix and I can't stop thinking about it. The four
part series paints a confronting picture of how young boys
are being exposed to in cell ideology and extreme content online.
In cells, short for involuntary celibate, is a belief system
where individuals, mostly men, feel entitled to sex or romantic
relationships that blame women and society for their lack of success.
(02:21):
It often involves toxic views on gender roles and resentment
towards women, feeling a cycle of frustration, isolation, and in
extreme cases violence. It's the kind of thing that keeps
you up at night, especially if you're a parent, and
even if you're not. I don't have kids, but I
am genuinely worried about the world we're creating. And how
one makes the choice to bring kids into that world
(02:43):
when there's a chance they'll fall victim to insult culture,
regardless of how good a job you do as a parent.
We're seeing boys as young as nine or ten stumbling
across red pill content, getting sucked into echo chambers of
toxic masculinity and becoming increasingly isolated from the real world.
And the scariest part, many parents don't even know it's happening.
(03:06):
Their kids might be watching gaming videos one minute and
the next the fored increasingly extreme content through clever algorithms.
But here's the thing, Well, Adolescence does an excellent job
of highlighting the problem. It leaves us with a burning question,
what can we actually do about it? Simoone Hang is
a human connection specialist and best selling author of Let's
(03:29):
Talk About Loneliness. She's been researching this exact issue. Simone,
what were your initial thoughts when you watched Adolescents?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
So it's so funny. I was like, yes, this is
everything I've been studying and reading about and talking about
on stages. But now they've narrativized it and it's gone mainstream.
So the sad thing was it didn't shock me, but
it should. But I'm the auntie to twenty five children
around the world, and I got calls the messages from
the parents of all of my friends around this. What's
(03:57):
interesting is all of these studies and these books, and
of course my speeches and stuff, they're not going to
the demographic that needs to see this. And so I
thought adolescence is wonderful because it's actually hitting the demographic
of busy mum's, busy dads who get to sit down
and watch this in a really easy and palatable and
efficient way.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So this is obviously an extreme case scenario. Not every
child or boy particularly who falls into these viewing habits
or these situations or subcultures is necessarily going to end
up allegedly stabbing a classmate to death. It is an
extreme case. But it also is really interesting that it
focuses on young boys. Why are they in particular maybe
(04:37):
more vulnerable to this kind of online radicalization.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Well, you've got to look at the different ways we
are taught as genders to connect. For example, women are
very vulnerable with their inner circle of intimate connections. We
share things that hurt us, we share quite deeply. And
the studies show that men connection is more shallow and wide,
so they'll have friends, but they don't disclose what could
be hurting them, but certainly not going to say I
(05:01):
feel lonely and unattractive and isolated, as we find out
with this young boy in the series. So I think
this lack of vulnerability with their hues because of these
toxic masculinity ideas, make young boys specifically vulnerable and more
lonely during certain points of adolescence maybe than girls.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Why is it that boys maybe struggle to express their
emotions more than girls.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Generally men have just been conditioned. And I guess we
could make a leap to how we evolved in tribes.
Most of the ways that we connect with each other
came back to that time when we were trying to
survive on the savannah as hunter gatherers. And I guess
that the alpha male in the tribe, which is what
the other men emulated to become, were able to reduce
(05:50):
the appearance of fear in a challenge. That's how they
became the alpha males. And there's this saying the most
powerful person in the room is the person with the
most calm breast, So the alpha male had the ability
to not show fear and therefore survived in conflict and
rose to the top of the tribe. So I guess,
if I wanted to make a really big extrapolation, that
(06:11):
could be where this idea of not being vulnerable with
your peers has come from.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So then what are some of the risks when boys
choose to seek that connection or that community online as
opposed to in their actual inner circle with their family
and their schoolmates in the schoolyard.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think for both genders, you go to high school,
we're forming our social identity and it can be very,
very triggering. And let's then add to this a generation
where because of the use of the Internet and what
is called asynchronous communication, that's basically where two people do
not have to be present at the same time. So
it's a generation where conflict is very, very uncomfortable. Let's
(06:48):
add on to the fact that you're learning who you are,
You're getting bullied, you're being teased, there's all this online trolling,
there's all these chat rooms, there's all these new ways
to be ostracized. Social rejection for human beings is one
of our worst fears.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Simon. As I kept watching adolescents, something kept steaking with me,
which is, well, what are we supposed to do with it?
I feel like I was just being suffocated by this
dread and this foreboding as the episodes kept moving through
hour by hour, And the conversation that I've been having
with a lot of people recently is that question of,
well what now? The show didn't really wrap it up
(07:25):
in a nice, neat little package because that's not right. Well,
that's not how life works, and I'm very willing to
admit that, but it doesn't actually help address the issue
that parents out there are facing. So say, if a
parent has just discovered that their kid is engaging with
this sort of stuff online, something tells me to throw
their phone away and lock them in their bedroom forever.
Isn't the right thing to do? What kind of advice
(07:47):
or what kind of things would you say? Are the
answers here?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yeah? So, number one, technology we know is not going anywhere.
Young kids' addiction to devices are always going to be
higher when they are lonely, so that makes them more vulnerable.
So using technology as the way station, not for destination,
can the parents look at where they can make sure
their child is actually having an in person interaction based
off connecting online and make sure that that's a positive interaction.
(08:14):
I know that's really really difficult to do. I watch
a lot of my friends struggle with their own kids
and this issue. I think it is about being more
invasive sometimes with exactly as you saw the father saying
in the last episode, it's almost like impossible to be
on them all the time. But maybe we could have
(08:34):
I go up in the Asian parenting system where the
term helicopter parent would be an understatement. We were surveiled.
Things are very invasive, but I think it has some
benefits watching what the interactions are, having a look at
is my child getting in person interactions and are these
positively polarized interactions. Secondly, the parent also needs to have
(08:55):
their own boundaries. We put our own phones away in
the presence of the child because the child is going
to be mirroring the parents' behavior. So if you are
out with the kids, you just default to looking down
the phone. You're just modeling to the kid. That technology
use paramount over in person connection, and it's in person
connection that satiates us. We do get a little bit
(09:16):
of dopamine off social media, off the internet, but it's
like the junk food equivalent of real life human connection.
It doesn't give us the long term well being boosts,
and we need to insulate them from loneliness. Loneliness is
what is the foundation for the addiction to the devices.
So making sure they're socially well connected, monitoring the use,
(09:36):
and having your own boundaries that they can see modeled
for where the phone comes out and when you yourself
retreat to your own devices in your room and close
the door. As a parent, so there are quite a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Of parents in my life who've just straight out told
me I won't be watching adolescents. I can't do that.
It's too painful. I've got kids, it's too close to home.
What do you say to that.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I guess adolescence triggers this kind of state of the
world conversation to those parents, Okay, if you don't want
to watch adolescents, I highly recommend Jonathan Height's book it's
called The Anxious Generation. It will allow them to read
about what's happening in a less emostly triggering way than
watching adolescents. Because I don't think denial is the answer.
(10:18):
Technology is not going to be removed. It's only going
to increase, and with that increase means easier access to
these subcultures and these different places where adolescent boys and
girls are looking for belonging online. And if you're super
busy you have hard to read put the audiobook on
in the car as you drive. But it's absolutely like
(10:38):
essential knowledge for parent in the year twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Simon. Finally, on the flip side of that conversation, people
who aren't parents and are consuming things like adolescents, myself included.
I've been having another conversation parallel to this discussion, which
is really struggling after watching adolescence with the fact that
if I have a kid, this could be my reality,
regardless of how good a job you do as a parent. Oh,
(11:04):
is there a hope for us? Still? Like, is this
something that isn't actually as big a deal as things
like adolests it's making out to me, Or is it
just now that we have to go into those big
life choices armed with the knowledge of this could happen
and this is how you deal with it.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I feel more hopeful for you because I feel the
technology divide between by the time you have kids and
your child is a teenager will not be as big
as it is for my generation from forty one this year.
We are the last generation to have had an analog childhood.
So our gap between being able to monitor our teenage
kid's use of technology is very wide because we were
(11:42):
later adopters. We weren't born with devices. Whereas I feel
maybe by the time you are the parent of a teenager,
you're going to be just as web fluent as they are,
and then your ability to understand what's going on. I mean,
there's that scene in episode one, I think where the
father is being explained to the colors of the emojis
(12:02):
by their child and the secret in cell language that
the father has no idea about in the subculture, And
that's quite possibly because the gap between that parent and
that child was very huge. I think maybe if you're
one of the generations that were born with devices, you're
going to be more easily in the loop of what
(12:22):
they're doing than maybe someone like me my age.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So mine, you've answered all my questions and you've put
my anxieties at rest a little bit there.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I still think we're living in a beautiful world, but
I'm a real realist about it, and we need to
raise children and villages like I'm a super hands on
Auntie because I feel with all of the bombardment of
these new technologies and these new subcultures that can become
available when kids are vulnerable and lonely, like that we
need the village because maybe your teenage kid tells Auntie
(12:51):
something that they're not going to tell their direct parents,
and so we need to come together in community and
villages and help raise our kids.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So many cool aunties that I told so many things too,
I would.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Never tell my parents exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with
us today. The quickie is produced by me Haalo Strano
and Claire Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hi It's Analyse. Just
dropping into your feed because I wanted to share this
episode of Mamma MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie,
because host Taylor does a deep dive on the Netflix
series Adolescence. Now, if you're a parent of teen or tweens,
(00:37):
you have watched it. You are terrified and you are
left scratching your head thinking where to from here.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So Taylor has got an expert on board, and she's
going to hold our hands, our very terrified hands, as
we navigate this uncharted territory. What do we do with
our teens and tweens? How do we keep them safe?
Is it even possible? So I really wanted to share
this episode for all of the other terrified parents of
(01:05):
teens and tweens. So deep breath, We've got this.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hey, I'm Taylor Strado. This is Mamma Mere's twice daily
news podcast, The Quickie. If you've watched Netflix's new series Adolescence,
you've probably been left with the same gut wrenching question
I have, what the hell are we supposed to do
about all of this, Jamie?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
If you do not situ fucking way down, do not
tell me where to say down.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
You do not control Why look at me now?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It shows us just how early young boys are being
exposed to dangerous online ideologies. But knowing the problem exists
isn't enough anymore. We need solutions next answering the question
Adolescence asks. Like everyone else, I've been watching Adolescents on
(01:57):
Netflix and I can't stop thinking about it. The four
part series paints a confronting picture of how young boys
are being exposed to in cell ideology and extreme content online.
In cells, short for involuntary celibate, is a belief system
where individuals, mostly men, feel entitled to sex or romantic
relationships that blame women and society for their lack of success.
(02:21):
It often involves toxic views on gender roles and resentment
towards women, feeling a cycle of frustration, isolation, and in
extreme cases violence. It's the kind of thing that keeps
you up at night, especially if you're a parent, and
even if you're not. I don't have kids, but I
am genuinely worried about the world we're creating. And how
one makes the choice to bring kids into that world
(02:43):
when there's a chance they'll fall victim to insult culture,
regardless of how good a job you do as a parent.
We're seeing boys as young as nine or ten stumbling
across red pill content, getting sucked into echo chambers of
toxic masculinity and becoming increasingly isolated from the real world.
And the scariest part, many parents don't even know it's happening.
(03:06):
Their kids might be watching gaming videos one minute and
the next the fored increasingly extreme content through clever algorithms.
But here's the thing, Well, Adolescence does an excellent job
of highlighting the problem. It leaves us with a burning question,
what can we actually do about it? Simoone Hang is
a human connection specialist and best selling author of Let's
(03:29):
Talk About Loneliness. She's been researching this exact issue. Simone,
what were your initial thoughts when you watched Adolescents?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
So it's so funny. I was like, yes, this is
everything I've been studying and reading about and talking about
on stages. But now they've narrativized it and it's gone mainstream.
So the sad thing was it didn't shock me, but
it should. But I'm the auntie to twenty five children
around the world, and I got calls the messages from
the parents of all of my friends around this. What's
(03:57):
interesting is all of these studies and these books, and
of course my speeches and stuff, they're not going to
the demographic that needs to see this. And so I
thought adolescence is wonderful because it's actually hitting the demographic
of busy mum's, busy dads who get to sit down
and watch this in a really easy and palatable and
efficient way.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So this is obviously an extreme case scenario. Not every
child or boy particularly who falls into these viewing habits
or these situations or subcultures is necessarily going to end
up allegedly stabbing a classmate to death. It is an
extreme case. But it also is really interesting that it
focuses on young boys. Why are they in particular maybe
(04:37):
more vulnerable to this kind of online radicalization.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Well, you've got to look at the different ways we
are taught as genders to connect. For example, women are
very vulnerable with their inner circle of intimate connections. We
share things that hurt us, we share quite deeply. And
the studies show that men connection is more shallow and wide,
so they'll have friends, but they don't disclose what could
be hurting them, but certainly not going to say I
(05:01):
feel lonely and unattractive and isolated, as we find out
with this young boy in the series. So I think
this lack of vulnerability with their hues because of these
toxic masculinity ideas, make young boys specifically vulnerable and more
lonely during certain points of adolescence maybe than girls.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Why is it that boys maybe struggle to express their
emotions more than girls.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Generally men have just been conditioned. And I guess we
could make a leap to how we evolved in tribes.
Most of the ways that we connect with each other
came back to that time when we were trying to
survive on the savannah as hunter gatherers. And I guess
that the alpha male in the tribe, which is what
the other men emulated to become, were able to reduce
(05:50):
the appearance of fear in a challenge. That's how they
became the alpha males. And there's this saying the most
powerful person in the room is the person with the
most calm breast, So the alpha male had the ability
to not show fear and therefore survived in conflict and
rose to the top of the tribe. So I guess,
if I wanted to make a really big extrapolation, that
(06:11):
could be where this idea of not being vulnerable with
your peers has come from.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So then what are some of the risks when boys
choose to seek that connection or that community online as
opposed to in their actual inner circle with their family
and their schoolmates in the schoolyard.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I think for both genders, you go to high school,
we're forming our social identity and it can be very,
very triggering. And let's then add to this a generation
where because of the use of the Internet and what
is called asynchronous communication, that's basically where two people do
not have to be present at the same time. So
it's a generation where conflict is very, very uncomfortable. Let's
(06:48):
add on to the fact that you're learning who you are,
You're getting bullied, you're being teased, there's all this online trolling,
there's all these chat rooms, there's all these new ways
to be ostracized. Social rejection for human beings is one
of our worst fears.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Simon. As I kept watching adolescents, something kept steaking with me,
which is, well, what are we supposed to do with it?
I feel like I was just being suffocated by this
dread and this foreboding as the episodes kept moving through
hour by hour, And the conversation that I've been having
with a lot of people recently is that question of,
well what now? The show didn't really wrap it up
(07:25):
in a nice, neat little package because that's not right. Well,
that's not how life works, and I'm very willing to
admit that, but it doesn't actually help address the issue
that parents out there are facing. So say, if a
parent has just discovered that their kid is engaging with
this sort of stuff online, something tells me to throw
their phone away and lock them in their bedroom forever.
Isn't the right thing to do? What kind of advice
(07:47):
or what kind of things would you say? Are the
answers here?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yeah? So, number one, technology we know is not going anywhere.
Young kids' addiction to devices are always going to be
higher when they are lonely, so that makes them more vulnerable.
So using technology as the way station, not for destination,
can the parents look at where they can make sure
their child is actually having an in person interaction based
off connecting online and make sure that that's a positive interaction.
(08:14):
I know that's really really difficult to do. I watch
a lot of my friends struggle with their own kids
and this issue. I think it is about being more
invasive sometimes with exactly as you saw the father saying
in the last episode, it's almost like impossible to be
on them all the time. But maybe we could have
(08:34):
I go up in the Asian parenting system where the
term helicopter parent would be an understatement. We were surveiled.
Things are very invasive, but I think it has some
benefits watching what the interactions are, having a look at
is my child getting in person interactions and are these
positively polarized interactions. Secondly, the parent also needs to have
(08:55):
their own boundaries. We put our own phones away in
the presence of the child because the child is going
to be mirroring the parents' behavior. So if you are
out with the kids, you just default to looking down
the phone. You're just modeling to the kid. That technology
use paramount over in person connection, and it's in person
connection that satiates us. We do get a little bit
(09:16):
of dopamine off social media, off the internet, but it's
like the junk food equivalent of real life human connection.
It doesn't give us the long term well being boosts,
and we need to insulate them from loneliness. Loneliness is
what is the foundation for the addiction to the devices.
So making sure they're socially well connected, monitoring the use,
(09:36):
and having your own boundaries that they can see modeled
for where the phone comes out and when you yourself
retreat to your own devices in your room and close
the door. As a parent, so there are quite a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Of parents in my life who've just straight out told
me I won't be watching adolescents. I can't do that.
It's too painful. I've got kids, it's too close to home.
What do you say to that.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I guess adolescence triggers this kind of state of the
world conversation to those parents, Okay, if you don't want
to watch adolescents, I highly recommend Jonathan Height's book it's
called The Anxious Generation. It will allow them to read
about what's happening in a less emostly triggering way than
watching adolescents. Because I don't think denial is the answer.
(10:18):
Technology is not going to be removed. It's only going
to increase, and with that increase means easier access to
these subcultures and these different places where adolescent boys and
girls are looking for belonging online. And if you're super
busy you have hard to read put the audiobook on
in the car as you drive. But it's absolutely like
(10:38):
essential knowledge for parent in the year twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Simon. Finally, on the flip side of that conversation, people
who aren't parents and are consuming things like adolescents, myself included.
I've been having another conversation parallel to this discussion, which
is really struggling after watching adolescence with the fact that
if I have a kid, this could be my reality,
regardless of how good a job you do as a parent. Oh,
(11:04):
is there a hope for us? Still? Like, is this
something that isn't actually as big a deal as things
like adolests it's making out to me, Or is it
just now that we have to go into those big
life choices armed with the knowledge of this could happen
and this is how you deal with it.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I feel more hopeful for you because I feel the
technology divide between by the time you have kids and
your child is a teenager will not be as big
as it is for my generation from forty one this year.
We are the last generation to have had an analog childhood.
So our gap between being able to monitor our teenage
kid's use of technology is very wide because we were
(11:42):
later adopters. We weren't born with devices. Whereas I feel
maybe by the time you are the parent of a teenager,
you're going to be just as web fluent as they are,
and then your ability to understand what's going on. I mean,
there's that scene in episode one, I think where the
father is being explained to the colors of the emojis
(12:02):
by their child and the secret in cell language that
the father has no idea about in the subculture, And
that's quite possibly because the gap between that parent and
that child was very huge. I think maybe if you're
one of the generations that were born with devices, you're
going to be more easily in the loop of what
(12:22):
they're doing than maybe someone like me my age.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So mine, you've answered all my questions and you've put
my anxieties at rest a little bit there.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I still think we're living in a beautiful world, but
I'm a real realist about it, and we need to
raise children and villages like I'm a super hands on
Auntie because I feel with all of the bombardment of
these new technologies and these new subcultures that can become
available when kids are vulnerable and lonely, like that we
need the village because maybe your teenage kid tells Auntie
(12:51):
something that they're not going to tell their direct parents,
and so we need to come together in community and
villages and help raise our kids.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So many cool aunties that I told so many things too,
I would.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Never tell my parents exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with
us today. The quickie is produced by me Haalo Strano
and Claire Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com