April 6, 2025 • 26 mins
In today's candid episode, fitness guru and girl-dad Sam Wood gets refreshingly honest about the behind-the-scenes challenges of raising four daughters. He shares the very relatable conundrum of what happens when different parenting styles cause tension, and how couples counselling helped him and his wife Snez navigate their way through.
Sam opens up about his initial hesitations and the common misconception that therapy is just for relationships in serious trouble - which theirs wasn't. And, he reveals how it's been game-changing for their relationship that was already 'good' but how it made it 'even better'. This conversation goes beyond the perfect Instagram family moments, offers real talk, and lifts a stigma on what so many parents experience, but rarely openly discuss.
THE END BITS
WIN $10k to use towards a cleaner*
Visit nestlebabyandme.com.au/pausethechores to enter!
*Promotion starts between 24/03/25 (AEDT) – 31/07/25 (AEST). AU residents 18+. Max 1 entry p/person. Draw: Unit 3/2 Cross St, Brookvale NSW 2100 at 10am AEST on 05/08/25. Prize: $10,000 transferred to winner’s bank account. Winner notified and published on nestle.com.au/productnews/winners by 12/8/25. Claim prize by 5pm AEDT on 12/11/25. Unclaimed prize draw occurs 13/11/25. Promoter: Nestle Australia Ltd. Full T&Cs at www.nestlebabyandme.com.au/pausethechores. Permit No's: ACT TP 25/00355 & SA T25/260.
Head here to get a yearly subscription for just $39. and use the code MONTHOFTGM
We’re listening! Send us a voice message, email us at tgm@mamamia.com.au
We’ve compiled all the best resources for new mums in a free newsletter. Join the mailing list.
LINKS TO EVERYTHING MENTIONED:
Annaliese's article on 50-50 custody and microgrief
CREDITS:
Host: Tegan Natoli, Annaliese Todd
With thanks to Sam Wood
Producer: Tina Matolov
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hello and welcome to this glorious mess.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We are embracing the chaos together, ditching the judgment. I
am Teak Natoli, mum of three little kids.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And I'm Annals Todd, single parent to one teen and
one tween age sons.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Today we are thrilled to have Sam Wood, fitness entrepreneur
and guru who has truly made his mark on the
Australian wellness landscape. Sam Wood is one of Australia's leading
health and fitness experts and founder of twenty eight by
Sam Wood, one of Australia's most trusted at home online
fitness programs. You probably know Sam from The Bachelor way
(00:59):
back in twenty fifteen, where he fell in love with
his now wife Snez, a single mom with then nine
year old Ebe.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
They have four daughters together now and Tea. We're going
in deep with Sam today, which you know we love.
We love getting deep because he shines a light on
the complexities around when you have clashing parenting styles with
your partner, which is such a common conundrum. Yes, and
he very openly shares the journey that led them to
couples counseling.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
How refreshing is it to hear, especially a known male,
talk about complexities in relationships but also things like couples
counseling And you know, I suppose looking at their two
different parenting styles from the outside inn do you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It's just it's very refreshing to hear it is, and
it's vulnerable, and it's so nice of him to share rall.
I know, because I think I think it really could
potentially help a lot of people. Yeah, and we love
getting dad views on this show, don't we. We don't
hear them too often, but we love them when we do.
But first, Tigs, here's what's going on in my group chat. So, Tigs,
I wrote an article for Mum and Mia recently and
(02:05):
it lit up a few of my group chats. It
was called I have fifty fifty custody and nobody talks
about the silent micro grief micro grief of what So
obviously it's not in any way comparable to grief of
losing a child, and that was not the intent. And
it's micro grief means that you have small amounts of
(02:28):
grief when you're apart from them, when you share custody.
And so it was about just missing on the little
moments that just happen in the ordinary hours of the day,
not knowing how they had a day at school, and
just sometimes how when you're alone and the house just
feels so vast and like eerily silent. And it's not
(02:50):
like I sit around and wallow, because you know, I
talk a lot about the silver linings of single parenting
and I love my breaks. But sometimes, like grief, micro
grief will sneak up on you. It's not linear, and
it'll hit you just in a moment. You might be
out having the best day of your life on a
weekend without your kids, and then you turn around and
you see a kid that's your age and they're like
(03:12):
cuddling their mum. Yeah, and it just hits you.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Look, I know we joke about it a lot on here,
you know how you know, oh, you've got your week
off and I'm so jealous.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
But I do also imagine that part of that goes
against all your maternal instincts, do you know what I mean? Like,
it doesn't feel right that you can't just pick up
your phone and call your kid, which maybe I'm sure
you can, but you know, I just like it's not
a natural thing as mums or as parents in general
to have this controlled time on or time off. Yes,
(03:42):
and I suppose when you're in a fifty to fifty
custody that's just what you have to oblige by.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And I talked about how you learn to turn off
the mum reflex, yeah, and which must be like quite
a process to actually do at first. Yeah, like anything,
but you have to turn it off because otherwise you'd
be constantly thinking about them. So you compartmentalize and you
switch off that reflex. It's just sometimes it's still yeah,
(04:10):
but I think, look, it really resonated with obviously a
lot of people in the same situation, and it just
it was a week where I just had a bad
week and I just wrote about it because it's like therapy,
and it came out, well, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
And if you haven't had a read of that yet,
we will leave the link in the show notes. So, Annalise,
you caught up with Sam Wood, who has four daughters,
my gosh and his wife of Snares. That is a
very female filled household, isn't it. Yes, he's been through
(04:45):
the tricky teen years with a nineteen year old and
the youngest is just two, and they're still in the trenches.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And Sam has quite the story to share from reality
TV heartthrob to fitness mogul and dedicated girl dad. Welcome
to this glorious mess, Sam Wood.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So in nine years, you have produced four daughters.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
I have sort of in a way. Yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Really is.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So it's ten years this year since The Bachelor, coming
up to the ten year anniversary, which just I can't
believe how quickly it's gone. But I can't believe how
much my life's changed. You know, I was a single,
lost guy really, you know, sort of had thought by
that stage of my life at thirty five years old,
(05:38):
i'd be at least in a serious relationship if I'm married,
maybe with kids already, and I wasn't and was thinking, oh,
this hasn't really panned.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Out how I thought it would.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
You know, And then in a blink of an eye
it all changed really really quickly, with Snares and Ivy
coming into my life and now three more little girls, and.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, it's we're in the trenches, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
The little ones are two, five and seven, and ev
he's nineteen and lives on the other side of the world.
Now it comes back often and and so there's never
a dull moment. And I don't know, it's exhausting, but
I wouldn't stop it for anything, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah. Well, and on behalf of single mothers everywhere, thank
you for publicly declaring that we deserve love and choosing
single mom. I loved that ten years ago, and now
as a single mom, I love it even more.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It's really nice to hear.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Actually, it's amazing how many messages I've received, not not
in the last year or two, but yeah, back then,
back when it all happened, my Instagram inbox was just
flooded with messages of that sentiment of thank you.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'd lost hope.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
You've given me hope, you know, like I mean even
talking to Snares. I mean Snares only went on the
show because Evie sort of pushed her, Yeah, which I
in a bit of a joking way, like I don't
think Evie pushed her, thinking you're gonna come back and
my life's going to change as much as it did.
That's mum, you should do this for a bit of fun.
And but Snaz said to me many times and spoken
(07:12):
about it openly, that she really didn't think she'd have
another partner. She'd kind of resided to the fact, or
just she was very comfortable with the fact that it's
her and Evy and she loves that and so be it,
you know, And never in her wildest dreams did I
think she thinks she'd have three more.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Kids and it would all end. And there are moments
where she probably says, shit, I get in this mess.
But you know, like.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
If we were both forty four, I reckon she'd want
two more yeah, And she loves kids. And Harper is
three in May, and she is really having not difficulty,
but she does not want halfer to grow up.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Like Harper is my little baby.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I know she's going to be my last little baby,
and I just don't want it to ever grow up.
Because she would definitely want more babies if we probably
weren't forty for and wanted to eventually.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Come out the other side.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Definitely. And then as well, you start thinking about all
the lasts when you know it's your last one and
it's just so heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Oh you should see the hoarding that he's going on.
It is, but that's.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Thes We do not have a place to keep all
this stuff. It's like the garage. No, it's like a museum.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Like all the ropers and the toys and everything, and
the booty.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Is the first or the last of something that there's
a sentimental justification for every single thing that's being hoarded
in their house. At the moment, it's it's bordering on ridiculousness.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Coming up after the short break, Sam talks about going
to marriage counseling and how he resisted it at first
but now sees it as such a valuable tool for
communication and connection. So I read somewhere that you didn't interview,
and in it you said that you guys have parenting
styles that a world's apart saying it. So you said,
(09:15):
I'm much harder. I think they need discipline and structure
and boundaries. And Snares doesn't know what any of those
three words. He said, you said, effing me, and then
it said and then he laughed. So obviously it.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Sounds like something I might say to a mate, maybe
not in an interview, but look, and we balance each
other out a little bit. So I'm not suggesting my
way is better, but I think my way stems from
the fact my dad was very hard on me, and.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I didn't like it at the time, but I'm.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Very grateful for it now, and I think it's held
me in really good stead in my adult life that
he was so tough on me. And you know, oh,
he's old school, and even when my mom passed away
when I was fifteen, he softened a little bit, but
he probably softened from a ten to a nine. I
don't think he softened that much. And I think all
(10:13):
of those tough lessons, having to work stuff out for myself,
having to go out and earn money and not being
given things and all that kind of stuff that really
really helped me work myself out, grow up, understand, you know,
have some perspective, and all of that kind of stuff.
And I guess, I guess the most challenging time during
(10:38):
those you know, thus far, during those differing parenting techniques
or ideals with Snares, was when Ev was a teenager,
because I was I absolutely think of myself as EV's dad,
not a stepdad, but that was a really testing time
for ev and my relationship and in turn for Snazz
(10:59):
in my relationship because it was COVID and Evie was
working herself out as a fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Sixteen year old.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
She was pretty challenging, as most girls of that age
are during that stage.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And you guys were in Melbourne, which had the world's.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Longest yeah, and when we were locked down for two years,
and Avie was struggling with that, and so it was
sort of in a pressure cooker environment with her going
through all this and.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Hi, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I thought she needed more discipline and says like she doesn't,
and that put straight on our relationship. And then as
the stepdad, you don't know how hard to push before
you're pushing too hard. But I always sort of said
I'm doing her a disservice but not treating her exactly
as I would as her dad. And then you know,
and then with the little ones, Sneeze has always said, oh,
(11:50):
you know, you're different to them. She doesn't say that
all the time, but we've had that conversation. The reason
I'm different to them is they're two and four. Like,
It's got nothing to do with the fact that you know,
I'm maybe stepdad. That's absolutely not why I'm different. When
they are ten, they are going to be treated the same.
(12:11):
When they are fifteen, they are going to be treated
the same. And you know it says, can't crystal ball that,
So that's my word again, her going, well, we'll see,
and I'm like, well, I promise you this is the
this is my sort of take on parenting.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
But yeah, we do.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
We do butt heads a lot on on boundaries and
what they need.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And I get frustrated that snarz does.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
And you said just before we jumped on air, you know,
because you guys a couple of goals, which I know
you're being but we're not like everyone sort of thinks, well,
you guys have got it all worked out.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
We don't have it worked out. We are a.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Dog's breakfast, like it's it's a madhouse, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And it's stressful and we're exhausted.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
And you know, we're probably like everybody else, Like Instagram
doesn't necessarily portray the snapshot that is the life withinside
our house.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
But it's.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
I guess my biggest frustration is says I'll ask the
kids to do something, whether it's evil harper and if
they don't she does it for them.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Oh yes, and yeah, I'm a bit like that.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, And I think part of the time it's just
like I just we just need to get on with things.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'm just going to do it.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Okay, Are we going to sit here and have an
episode for forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
While of you have repair of shoes?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:34):
But what then they work it out and then they
manipulate the situation. You know, Harper, who's not even three,
manipulates the situation. Evie became the queen of manipulating situation,
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
So do you find that they're like, they'll go to mum,
you know, who's like more soft touch instead of play
you guys off. So how do you navigate that? Because
this is for people listening, this is so common.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Look, I think I think the most important thing that
we do is we have private conversations once the kids
are in bed about things that we're seeing and discovering.
And it goes both ways. I mean, Snaz come to
me and say, look, you might not have picked up,
(14:22):
but Willow is actually really sensitive about something at the moment,
and it's probably not the thing you should be tough
on because she you know, we had and I'm like,
I actually didn't pick that, and it's really beneficial, or
in a says might be working and I'll have the
kids by myself, which doesn't happen that often, but I
(14:42):
get brilliant learnings when I've got them by myself because
they can't go to mum. And it's so like the
dynamic completely changes and I go, Hunt, we did this,
and they did it. The reason they don't do it
is because they know you're going to do it for them.
And She's like, no, I don't think Hunt, I'm telling you.
They went upstairs, they got themself dressed. It happened in
(15:04):
a normal timeframe, Like they are fully capable. They just
see you and go, Mum's going to do it for me.
They are fully capable. And I'm not talking about tiding
the house from top to bottom and driving the car,
like just basic little things getting ready, getting organized.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
So yeah, I mean, Sez and I've also spoken.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
You know, we went and did some couples sessions that
was sort of recommended by a friend of ours, and
we saw a husband and wife couple's team and so
they they're both psychologists and they're eighty years old and
they're a husband and wife and we saw them as
a couple and that was a It was a really
(15:48):
interesting but beneficial experience because all of a sudden there's impartial,
not guidance.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But almost.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Perspective.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah, perspective. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
People hear couples counseling, marriage counseling and they go, oh,
it's doom and gloom. But it's actually about learning communication techniques.
It's actually not about navigating conflict. It's actually about how
to communicate through conflict healthily.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
It was a really proactive, positive experience rather than we're
hanging on by a thread our relationship. You know, our
relationship's good, but that really that really made our relationship better.
And having even just a safe place, a place without
distraction and manic noise to get stuff off your chest,
(16:40):
you know, you'd go back, to go forwards to kind
of be like, well, why do you think you are
the way you are? Where does that stem from? And
you know that stuff that perhaps you know about yourself,
even though you probably don't reflect on as much as
you should. But having here when I heard Snaiz talk
about this is why I am how I am, and
(17:01):
a lot of it's from being a single mum and
a lot of it's European Macedonian background.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I'm a Croatians, yeah, right, so I totally get you
smother them.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, And it was really interesting to me. I mean,
Evie now lives in New York and snays can't do
the things for.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Her because they're on the opposite sides of the world.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And I can't believe how much EV's changed in six
months because she now has no option.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And it's so like I love it, yes, but.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I mean it breaks's heart that they're so far apart
that I don't love that part of it. But to
see how much EV's grown in just six months without
making how to be there to do things for her.
I mean, if Evie had stayed in Melbourne's do Uni
Snaars has this idea that Eve's going to be living with.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Us till she's forty five.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
That is my worst.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Nightmare, and not from my point of view, but from
Evie's point of view. Like, honestly, if he stays that
her way, we'd be building a new story on top
of a new story, and we'd all be living to
it with each other.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
To eighty five, which is just not what I want
to happen. So we are a long way apart.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
But I think to answer your question, understanding where the
other person's coming from, having discussions outside of the madness,
you know, actually having a really nice ten minute conversation
about what's going on, not in front of the kids
and not being distracted by the kids has been really
powerful for us and something that we don't do enough.
(18:29):
But when we do do it, we really see some
good growth and some good learnings.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So it's communication, and then it's about being a team
in front of the kids.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah, And I think I think sitting down and
going you know, without the distraction, without the phone, saying
let's talk about this properly, just you know, creating a
little ten minute window, which is easier said than done,
you know, because you're so exhausted by the end of
the day, it's probably the last thing you feel like doing.
You kind of feel like switching off completely and just
(18:59):
winding down. But just to do that, I don't know,
every couple of weeks and stay connected to what you're
seeing with the kids and what you're getting frustrated with
with the other person and all that kind of stuff
tends to work quite well.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I think.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Ye, so you are a couple of goals, so honest, we.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Would be This sounds like this is something we do
really well in a routine. We're a bit haphazard with it,
and it's funny. As I talk to you, I'm just
reminding myself, why don't we do this more?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
We should be this more.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
It actually really is where the gold happens, and we
need to be better at it for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well that's the takeaway for everyone today, including that's right.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
This is a counseling system. This has been very beneficial.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I love this. This is my jam. It's my jam.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I can tell that.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So can we just circle back a minute? How did
you initially feel about couples counseling?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Were you open to the idea?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I really didn't want to go and see someone. I
mean I got defensive and I think I think as
soon as it was.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Suggested, it was like, but what's wrong with that? You know?
It was it was like, why do we need what
do we need to fix?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
This is such a common thing where women want to
go and see someone. How did snares get you there?
What was their tricks?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
So I think I think I was defensive on two fronts.
I think I was defensive because it was Snars' Snaarz
instigated it. I also think it was it was sort
of a double up of that because.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
The idea came from her friend and I was a bit.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like and her friend was having far more serious relationship
issues than us, so I instantly went, well, of course
they need to see someone we don't, you know, And
so I think.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It was funny. It flipped.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
It actually flipped over time though, because I I hated it.
I hated the idea of it, but then I actually
really saw the benefit of it, and I and I think,
you know, after three or four sessions, I think Snais
was a bit more like that was really good, wasn't it.
I'm glad we did it, almost like we're done with it.
(21:18):
And I was a bit like, I was more of
the line that, yeah, I think we should keep doing
it for a little while.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So, yeah, but how did you drop that defense and get.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
There say has said we're going with you like it
or not.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
That's what happened, Yeah, and I went and so yeah,
I didn't go kicking and screaming, but I wasn't wrapped
about the idea.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Even walking in the door.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
But I don't know, I think we just you just
don't talk to people in a sort of neutral setting.
And then these people are such they're so good at
what they do, and they're such professionals. And it was
really disarming that it was a male and female and
they were eighty.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You know that they've lived it.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
They've lived it like there's not much they haven't seen,
either individually or together with couples and in relationships, and
they were so calming and so so good at getting
you to be vulnerable, and so good at I don't know,
letting us speak in turn like sneeze and I often
(22:28):
get agitated and what starts out with good intent can
turn into a bit of a petty argument. And it
just never got to that stage because you're just you're
with other people, and I don't know if it was
you didn't want to embarrass yourself and get an argument
in front of this person, it was just more they
facilitated such a such a healthy, balanced, you know, you go,
(22:52):
I go type of conversation that you know, there there
was real benefit in that. And as I say said,
I think I need to revisit that because I don't
I don't think you just fix something and then you go, yep,
we're done there. That was a great I don't know,
I'm not saying we put a band aid overthing, but
we made some real inroads. And I think then you
(23:13):
consolidate and you try to put some of those learnings
into practice in your home with boundaries and communication techniques
and ways to communicate to the kids.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
And little boards on the wall where they're.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Marking off tasks and all that kind of stuff. And
that's been really helpful for us. But that's not to
say we shouldn't go back and almost do chapter two
and learn again and grow totally.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And it's a constant work in progress. Like relationships take work,
but it's the reward, right, Yeah, it's a reward at
the end.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It is.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It is, And there's I don't know, there's nothing more
calming than when your relationship, like just just the way
you can handle the challenges that the kids throw at
you and the stress that work throws at you. Like
when your relationship's good eight out of tens for like
three out of tens and vice versa. Like if you're
(24:04):
stressed or you're fighting just little things at work or
little things with the kids, escalate and feel so much
bigger than they are.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I think, yeah, totally, well, Sam, thank you so much
for giving us your time and sharing such vulnerable insight
into your life. It's been really heartwarming and I've loved
getting to know you.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I loved hearing a male perspective on this, and you know,
like even in my marriage, we've done marriage counseling before
and couples counseling.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
And it is interesting to hear.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like for women, I find, especially when it comes to parenting,
like there is no wrong or right. You know, no
one's way is wrong, no one's way is right, and
so when it's affecting your relationship, it's it is like
you need that unbiased third party to come in and
be the mediator or to teach you and give you
tools into how to constructively resolve any issues.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
In the matter.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And like, I have found that so useful in my
in my marriage, and I like to be honest, the
more you talk about having couples.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Counseling, the more you realize that most couples are having
couples exactly so, but no one does talk about it,
and I loved yes that he talked about it, and
he shared this absolutely and very refreshing. It's lifting a
stigma which shouldn't exist because he said, he said, I
thought that that meant the end you got to couples counseling.
It means you're dire, and they weren't dire. They just
needed some communication tools. And it's been so helpful, and
(25:32):
so I love that he's put that out there, and
I hope that it helps people just remove the stigma
because there shouldn't be one.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Absolutely, And look, especially in this situation, when it's about
benefiting the kids and your family dynamic, then you know
you've got nothing to lose. It can only be a
good thing. Well, you do have so much to lose,
and that's why it's so important. You've got nothing to
lose in improving it. You've got nothing to lose by
going to counseling. Exactly what I'm exactly. But we loved
(25:58):
having him on and loved that he shared that. And
he's a really good dude. I really enjoyed meeting him.
He's a nice guy. Thank you for listening to this
glorious mess. We hope you enjoyed the episode, and we'd
love it if you left us a rating all review
if you did. This episode was produced by Tina Madialov
with audio production by Jacob Brown. We'll see you next week. Bye,
You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hello and welcome to this glorious mess.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We are embracing the chaos together, ditching the judgment. I
am Teak Natoli, mum of three little kids.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And I'm Annals Todd, single parent to one teen and
one tween age sons.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Today we are thrilled to have Sam Wood, fitness entrepreneur
and guru who has truly made his mark on the
Australian wellness landscape. Sam Wood is one of Australia's leading
health and fitness experts and founder of twenty eight by
Sam Wood, one of Australia's most trusted at home online
fitness programs. You probably know Sam from The Bachelor way
(00:59):
back in twenty fifteen, where he fell in love with
his now wife Snez, a single mom with then nine
year old Ebe.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
They have four daughters together now and Tea. We're going
in deep with Sam today, which you know we love.
We love getting deep because he shines a light on
the complexities around when you have clashing parenting styles with
your partner, which is such a common conundrum. Yes, and
he very openly shares the journey that led them to
couples counseling.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
How refreshing is it to hear, especially a known male,
talk about complexities in relationships but also things like couples
counseling And you know, I suppose looking at their two
different parenting styles from the outside inn do you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It's just it's very refreshing to hear it is, and
it's vulnerable, and it's so nice of him to share rall.
I know, because I think I think it really could
potentially help a lot of people. Yeah, and we love
getting dad views on this show, don't we. We don't
hear them too often, but we love them when we do.
But first, Tigs, here's what's going on in my group chat. So, Tigs,
I wrote an article for Mum and Mia recently and
(02:05):
it lit up a few of my group chats. It
was called I have fifty fifty custody and nobody talks
about the silent micro grief micro grief of what So
obviously it's not in any way comparable to grief of
losing a child, and that was not the intent. And
it's micro grief means that you have small amounts of
(02:28):
grief when you're apart from them, when you share custody.
And so it was about just missing on the little
moments that just happen in the ordinary hours of the day,
not knowing how they had a day at school, and
just sometimes how when you're alone and the house just
feels so vast and like eerily silent. And it's not
(02:50):
like I sit around and wallow, because you know, I
talk a lot about the silver linings of single parenting
and I love my breaks. But sometimes, like grief, micro
grief will sneak up on you. It's not linear, and
it'll hit you just in a moment. You might be
out having the best day of your life on a
weekend without your kids, and then you turn around and
you see a kid that's your age and they're like
(03:12):
cuddling their mum. Yeah, and it just hits you.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Look, I know we joke about it a lot on here,
you know how you know, oh, you've got your week
off and I'm so jealous.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
But I do also imagine that part of that goes
against all your maternal instincts, do you know what I mean? Like,
it doesn't feel right that you can't just pick up
your phone and call your kid, which maybe I'm sure
you can, but you know, I just like it's not
a natural thing as mums or as parents in general
to have this controlled time on or time off. Yes,
(03:42):
and I suppose when you're in a fifty to fifty
custody that's just what you have to oblige by.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And I talked about how you learn to turn off
the mum reflex, yeah, and which must be like quite
a process to actually do at first. Yeah, like anything,
but you have to turn it off because otherwise you'd
be constantly thinking about them. So you compartmentalize and you
switch off that reflex. It's just sometimes it's still yeah,
(04:10):
but I think, look, it really resonated with obviously a
lot of people in the same situation, and it just
it was a week where I just had a bad
week and I just wrote about it because it's like therapy,
and it came out, well, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
And if you haven't had a read of that yet,
we will leave the link in the show notes. So, Annalise,
you caught up with Sam Wood, who has four daughters,
my gosh and his wife of Snares. That is a
very female filled household, isn't it. Yes, he's been through
(04:45):
the tricky teen years with a nineteen year old and
the youngest is just two, and they're still in the trenches.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And Sam has quite the story to share from reality
TV heartthrob to fitness mogul and dedicated girl dad. Welcome
to this glorious mess, Sam Wood.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So in nine years, you have produced four daughters.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
I have sort of in a way. Yeah, it.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Really is.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So it's ten years this year since The Bachelor, coming
up to the ten year anniversary, which just I can't
believe how quickly it's gone. But I can't believe how
much my life's changed. You know, I was a single,
lost guy really, you know, sort of had thought by
that stage of my life at thirty five years old,
(05:38):
i'd be at least in a serious relationship if I'm married,
maybe with kids already, and I wasn't and was thinking, oh,
this hasn't really panned.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Out how I thought it would.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
You know, And then in a blink of an eye
it all changed really really quickly, with Snares and Ivy
coming into my life and now three more little girls, and.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, it's we're in the trenches, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
The little ones are two, five and seven, and ev
he's nineteen and lives on the other side of the world.
Now it comes back often and and so there's never
a dull moment. And I don't know, it's exhausting, but
I wouldn't stop it for anything, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah. Well, and on behalf of single mothers everywhere, thank
you for publicly declaring that we deserve love and choosing
single mom. I loved that ten years ago, and now
as a single mom, I love it even more.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It's really nice to hear.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Actually, it's amazing how many messages I've received, not not
in the last year or two, but yeah, back then,
back when it all happened, my Instagram inbox was just
flooded with messages of that sentiment of thank you.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'd lost hope.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
You've given me hope, you know, like I mean even
talking to Snares. I mean Snares only went on the
show because Evie sort of pushed her, Yeah, which I
in a bit of a joking way, like I don't
think Evie pushed her, thinking you're gonna come back and
my life's going to change as much as it did.
That's mum, you should do this for a bit of fun.
And but Snaz said to me many times and spoken
(07:12):
about it openly, that she really didn't think she'd have
another partner. She'd kind of resided to the fact, or
just she was very comfortable with the fact that it's
her and Evy and she loves that and so be it,
you know, And never in her wildest dreams did I
think she thinks she'd have three more.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Kids and it would all end. And there are moments
where she probably says, shit, I get in this mess.
But you know, like.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
If we were both forty four, I reckon she'd want
two more yeah, And she loves kids. And Harper is
three in May, and she is really having not difficulty,
but she does not want halfer to grow up.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Like Harper is my little baby.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I know she's going to be my last little baby,
and I just don't want it to ever grow up.
Because she would definitely want more babies if we probably
weren't forty for and wanted to eventually.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Come out the other side.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Definitely. And then as well, you start thinking about all
the lasts when you know it's your last one and
it's just so heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Oh you should see the hoarding that he's going on.
It is, but that's.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Thes We do not have a place to keep all
this stuff. It's like the garage. No, it's like a museum.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Like all the ropers and the toys and everything, and
the booty.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Is the first or the last of something that there's
a sentimental justification for every single thing that's being hoarded
in their house. At the moment, it's it's bordering on ridiculousness.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Coming up after the short break, Sam talks about going
to marriage counseling and how he resisted it at first
but now sees it as such a valuable tool for
communication and connection. So I read somewhere that you didn't interview,
and in it you said that you guys have parenting
styles that a world's apart saying it. So you said,
(09:15):
I'm much harder. I think they need discipline and structure
and boundaries. And Snares doesn't know what any of those
three words. He said, you said, effing me, and then
it said and then he laughed. So obviously it.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Sounds like something I might say to a mate, maybe
not in an interview, but look, and we balance each
other out a little bit. So I'm not suggesting my
way is better, but I think my way stems from
the fact my dad was very hard on me, and.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I didn't like it at the time, but I'm.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Very grateful for it now, and I think it's held
me in really good stead in my adult life that
he was so tough on me. And you know, oh,
he's old school, and even when my mom passed away
when I was fifteen, he softened a little bit, but
he probably softened from a ten to a nine. I
don't think he softened that much. And I think all
(10:13):
of those tough lessons, having to work stuff out for myself,
having to go out and earn money and not being
given things and all that kind of stuff that really
really helped me work myself out, grow up, understand, you know,
have some perspective, and all of that kind of stuff.
And I guess, I guess the most challenging time during
(10:38):
those you know, thus far, during those differing parenting techniques
or ideals with Snares, was when Ev was a teenager,
because I was I absolutely think of myself as EV's dad,
not a stepdad, but that was a really testing time
for ev and my relationship and in turn for Snazz
(10:59):
in my relationship because it was COVID and Evie was
working herself out as a fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Sixteen year old.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
She was pretty challenging, as most girls of that age
are during that stage.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And you guys were in Melbourne, which had the world's.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Longest yeah, and when we were locked down for two years,
and Avie was struggling with that, and so it was
sort of in a pressure cooker environment with her going
through all this and.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Hi, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I thought she needed more discipline and says like she doesn't,
and that put straight on our relationship. And then as
the stepdad, you don't know how hard to push before
you're pushing too hard. But I always sort of said
I'm doing her a disservice but not treating her exactly
as I would as her dad. And then you know,
and then with the little ones, Sneeze has always said, oh,
(11:50):
you know, you're different to them. She doesn't say that
all the time, but we've had that conversation. The reason
I'm different to them is they're two and four. Like,
It's got nothing to do with the fact that you know,
I'm maybe stepdad. That's absolutely not why I'm different. When
they are ten, they are going to be treated the same.
(12:11):
When they are fifteen, they are going to be treated
the same. And you know it says, can't crystal ball that,
So that's my word again, her going, well, we'll see,
and I'm like, well, I promise you this is the
this is my sort of take on parenting.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
But yeah, we do.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
We do butt heads a lot on on boundaries and
what they need.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And I get frustrated that snarz does.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
And you said just before we jumped on air, you know,
because you guys a couple of goals, which I know
you're being but we're not like everyone sort of thinks, well,
you guys have got it all worked out.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
We don't have it worked out. We are a.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Dog's breakfast, like it's it's a madhouse, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And it's stressful and we're exhausted.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
And you know, we're probably like everybody else, Like Instagram
doesn't necessarily portray the snapshot that is the life withinside
our house.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
But it's.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
I guess my biggest frustration is says I'll ask the
kids to do something, whether it's evil harper and if
they don't she does it for them.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Oh yes, and yeah, I'm a bit like that.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, And I think part of the time it's just
like I just we just need to get on with things.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'm just going to do it.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Okay, Are we going to sit here and have an
episode for forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
While of you have repair of shoes?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:34):
But what then they work it out and then they
manipulate the situation. You know, Harper, who's not even three,
manipulates the situation. Evie became the queen of manipulating situation,
you know.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
So do you find that they're like, they'll go to mum,
you know, who's like more soft touch instead of play
you guys off. So how do you navigate that? Because
this is for people listening, this is so common.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Look, I think I think the most important thing that
we do is we have private conversations once the kids
are in bed about things that we're seeing and discovering.
And it goes both ways. I mean, Snaz come to
me and say, look, you might not have picked up,
(14:22):
but Willow is actually really sensitive about something at the moment,
and it's probably not the thing you should be tough
on because she you know, we had and I'm like,
I actually didn't pick that, and it's really beneficial, or
in a says might be working and I'll have the
kids by myself, which doesn't happen that often, but I
(14:42):
get brilliant learnings when I've got them by myself because
they can't go to mum. And it's so like the
dynamic completely changes and I go, Hunt, we did this,
and they did it. The reason they don't do it
is because they know you're going to do it for them.
And She's like, no, I don't think Hunt, I'm telling you.
They went upstairs, they got themself dressed. It happened in
(15:04):
a normal timeframe, Like they are fully capable. They just
see you and go, Mum's going to do it for me.
They are fully capable. And I'm not talking about tiding
the house from top to bottom and driving the car,
like just basic little things getting ready, getting organized.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
So yeah, I mean, Sez and I've also spoken.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
You know, we went and did some couples sessions that
was sort of recommended by a friend of ours, and
we saw a husband and wife couple's team and so
they they're both psychologists and they're eighty years old and
they're a husband and wife and we saw them as
a couple and that was a It was a really
(15:48):
interesting but beneficial experience because all of a sudden there's impartial,
not guidance.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But almost.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Perspective.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah, perspective. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
People hear couples counseling, marriage counseling and they go, oh,
it's doom and gloom. But it's actually about learning communication techniques.
It's actually not about navigating conflict. It's actually about how
to communicate through conflict healthily.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
It was a really proactive, positive experience rather than we're
hanging on by a thread our relationship. You know, our
relationship's good, but that really that really made our relationship better.
And having even just a safe place, a place without
distraction and manic noise to get stuff off your chest,
(16:40):
you know, you'd go back, to go forwards to kind
of be like, well, why do you think you are
the way you are? Where does that stem from? And
you know that stuff that perhaps you know about yourself,
even though you probably don't reflect on as much as
you should. But having here when I heard Snaiz talk
about this is why I am how I am, and
(17:01):
a lot of it's from being a single mum and
a lot of it's European Macedonian background.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I'm a Croatians, yeah, right, so I totally get you
smother them.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, And it was really interesting to me. I mean,
Evie now lives in New York and snays can't do
the things for.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Her because they're on the opposite sides of the world.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And I can't believe how much EV's changed in six
months because she now has no option.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And it's so like I love it, yes, but.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I mean it breaks's heart that they're so far apart
that I don't love that part of it. But to
see how much EV's grown in just six months without
making how to be there to do things for her.
I mean, if Evie had stayed in Melbourne's do Uni
Snaars has this idea that Eve's going to be living with.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Us till she's forty five.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
That is my worst.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Nightmare, and not from my point of view, but from
Evie's point of view. Like, honestly, if he stays that
her way, we'd be building a new story on top
of a new story, and we'd all be living to
it with each other.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
To eighty five, which is just not what I want
to happen. So we are a long way apart.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
But I think to answer your question, understanding where the
other person's coming from, having discussions outside of the madness,
you know, actually having a really nice ten minute conversation
about what's going on, not in front of the kids
and not being distracted by the kids has been really
powerful for us and something that we don't do enough.
(18:29):
But when we do do it, we really see some
good growth and some good learnings.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So it's communication, and then it's about being a team
in front of the kids.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah, And I think I think sitting down and
going you know, without the distraction, without the phone, saying
let's talk about this properly, just you know, creating a
little ten minute window, which is easier said than done,
you know, because you're so exhausted by the end of
the day, it's probably the last thing you feel like doing.
You kind of feel like switching off completely and just
(18:59):
winding down. But just to do that, I don't know,
every couple of weeks and stay connected to what you're
seeing with the kids and what you're getting frustrated with
with the other person and all that kind of stuff
tends to work quite well.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I think.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Ye, so you are a couple of goals, so honest, we.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Would be This sounds like this is something we do
really well in a routine. We're a bit haphazard with it,
and it's funny. As I talk to you, I'm just
reminding myself, why don't we do this more?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
We should be this more.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
It actually really is where the gold happens, and we
need to be better at it for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well that's the takeaway for everyone today, including that's right.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
This is a counseling system. This has been very beneficial.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I love this. This is my jam. It's my jam.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I can tell that.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So can we just circle back a minute? How did
you initially feel about couples counseling?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Were you open to the idea?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I really didn't want to go and see someone. I
mean I got defensive and I think I think as
soon as it was.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Suggested, it was like, but what's wrong with that? You know?
It was it was like, why do we need what
do we need to fix?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
This is such a common thing where women want to
go and see someone. How did snares get you there?
What was their tricks?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
So I think I think I was defensive on two fronts.
I think I was defensive because it was Snars' Snaarz
instigated it. I also think it was it was sort
of a double up of that because.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
The idea came from her friend and I was a bit.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Like and her friend was having far more serious relationship
issues than us, so I instantly went, well, of course
they need to see someone we don't, you know, And
so I think.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It was funny. It flipped.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
It actually flipped over time though, because I I hated it.
I hated the idea of it, but then I actually
really saw the benefit of it, and I and I think,
you know, after three or four sessions, I think Snais
was a bit more like that was really good, wasn't it.
I'm glad we did it, almost like we're done with it.
(21:18):
And I was a bit like, I was more of
the line that, yeah, I think we should keep doing
it for a little while.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So, yeah, but how did you drop that defense and get.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
There say has said we're going with you like it
or not.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
That's what happened, Yeah, and I went and so yeah,
I didn't go kicking and screaming, but I wasn't wrapped
about the idea.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Even walking in the door.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
But I don't know, I think we just you just
don't talk to people in a sort of neutral setting.
And then these people are such they're so good at
what they do, and they're such professionals. And it was
really disarming that it was a male and female and
they were eighty.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You know that they've lived it.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
They've lived it like there's not much they haven't seen,
either individually or together with couples and in relationships, and
they were so calming and so so good at getting
you to be vulnerable, and so good at I don't know,
letting us speak in turn like sneeze and I often
(22:28):
get agitated and what starts out with good intent can
turn into a bit of a petty argument. And it
just never got to that stage because you're just you're
with other people, and I don't know if it was
you didn't want to embarrass yourself and get an argument
in front of this person, it was just more they
facilitated such a such a healthy, balanced, you know, you go,
(22:52):
I go type of conversation that you know, there there
was real benefit in that. And as I say said,
I think I need to revisit that because I don't
I don't think you just fix something and then you go, yep,
we're done there. That was a great I don't know,
I'm not saying we put a band aid overthing, but
we made some real inroads. And I think then you
(23:13):
consolidate and you try to put some of those learnings
into practice in your home with boundaries and communication techniques
and ways to communicate to the kids.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
And little boards on the wall where they're.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Marking off tasks and all that kind of stuff. And
that's been really helpful for us. But that's not to
say we shouldn't go back and almost do chapter two
and learn again and grow totally.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And it's a constant work in progress. Like relationships take work,
but it's the reward, right, Yeah, it's a reward at
the end.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It is.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It is, And there's I don't know, there's nothing more
calming than when your relationship, like just just the way
you can handle the challenges that the kids throw at
you and the stress that work throws at you. Like
when your relationship's good eight out of tens for like
three out of tens and vice versa. Like if you're
(24:04):
stressed or you're fighting just little things at work or
little things with the kids, escalate and feel so much
bigger than they are.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I think, yeah, totally, well, Sam, thank you so much
for giving us your time and sharing such vulnerable insight
into your life. It's been really heartwarming and I've loved
getting to know you.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I loved hearing a male perspective on this, and you know,
like even in my marriage, we've done marriage counseling before
and couples counseling.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
And it is interesting to hear.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like for women, I find, especially when it comes to parenting,
like there is no wrong or right. You know, no
one's way is wrong, no one's way is right, and
so when it's affecting your relationship, it's it is like
you need that unbiased third party to come in and
be the mediator or to teach you and give you
tools into how to constructively resolve any issues.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
In the matter.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And like, I have found that so useful in my
in my marriage, and I like to be honest, the
more you talk about having couples.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Counseling, the more you realize that most couples are having
couples exactly so, but no one does talk about it,
and I loved yes that he talked about it, and
he shared this absolutely and very refreshing. It's lifting a
stigma which shouldn't exist because he said, he said, I
thought that that meant the end you got to couples counseling.
It means you're dire, and they weren't dire. They just
needed some communication tools. And it's been so helpful, and
(25:32):
so I love that he's put that out there, and
I hope that it helps people just remove the stigma
because there shouldn't be one.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Absolutely, And look, especially in this situation, when it's about
benefiting the kids and your family dynamic, then you know
you've got nothing to lose. It can only be a
good thing. Well, you do have so much to lose,
and that's why it's so important. You've got nothing to
lose in improving it. You've got nothing to lose by
going to counseling. Exactly what I'm exactly. But we loved
(25:58):
having him on and loved that he shared that. And
he's a really good dude. I really enjoyed meeting him.
He's a nice guy. Thank you for listening to this
glorious mess. We hope you enjoyed the episode, and we'd
love it if you left us a rating all review
if you did. This episode was produced by Tina Madialov
with audio production by Jacob Brown. We'll see you next week. Bye,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!