December 1, 2025 • 28 mins
Have you ever ordered a tiny little beauty product and then it arrived in a huge box filled with enough bubble wrap to choke a whale? Well we have, and the guilt is real. Today, we're deep diving into a topic that is becoming non-negotiable for all of us: sustainable beauty.
Our guest is the entrepreneur who solved her own business's massive packaging problem—she's the co-founder and CEO of Hero Packaging, servicing over 45,000 online retailers, and the author of Sell Anything Online, Anaita Sarkar. Get ready to find out what the future of our beauty routines looks like with less waste—and how to spot the Greenwashing! Plus, Anaita shares her six best tips for any brand wanting to cut through a crowded market.
PRODUCTS MENTIONED:
Hero Packaging Eco Friendly Packaging
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Hosts: Kelly McCarren
Guest: Anita Sakar
Audio Producer: Tegan Sadler
Video Producer: Artemi Kokkaris
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to I'MM with mea podcast. Makeup is my therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hello, and welcome to you beauty. This is the formula
and I'm Keeley mccarrott. Have you ever ordered a tiny,
little beauty product and then it arrived in a huge
box filled with enough bubble wrap to choke a whale?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know I have, and the guilt is real.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Today we're deep diving into a topic that is becoming
non negotiable for all of us, sustainable beauty.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Our guest is the entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Who solved her own business's massive packaging problem and accidentally
became Australia's leading expert in eco friendly shipping.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
She's the co founder and CEO of Hero.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Packaging, servicing over forty five thousand online retailers, and the
author of Sell Anything Online. Get ready to find out
what the future of our routines looks like with less waste.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Welcome to the Formula.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Anita Sukha, you're such beautiful skill But how all right?
So let's start with the moment that changed everything. You've
told the story of seeing your own children playing in
a pile of plastic waste from your first business. Like,
explain how you felt in that moment and what was
(01:30):
the exact spark that made you decide I really need
to solve this problem with waste.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, that's a big question. I wasn't explaining. Also, what
your first business, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So before Hero, I had this other business which was
like personalizing leather goods onto you know, bags and wallets
and things, and I loved it. It was called Olivia
and Co.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And it was like a direct copy of you know,
The Daily Edited. I just wanted to get out of.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
A nine to five and I started this business and
I just loved it. Like I realized that that's all
I wanted to do in my life was be in business.
And so this small business was growing and it was
like one order a day, ten orders a day, and
then there was this one moment, like it was peak
season and I had sixty orders coming in a day
and I was so excited.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It was school holidays. I was packaging orders.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I got my two girls, who were really young at
the time, and they came in and they were packing
with me, and it was just like this one moment
I looked around the room and it was packages everywhere,
like piled up sixty eighty packages, all plastic, all single use,
and my kids were sitting there in the middle of
the piles, like playing with all that waste and thinking
it was so cool and tying it up and platting it.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And I was like, that's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I never really thought about waste before, like all sustainability.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It wasn't really something that I grew up with.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But I looked around the room and I was like,
m that looks really terrible, and I can't believe this
is one business, one business day, one person making all
this waste, and it's going to go straight into the bin.
And so it was that moment I looked around and
I was like, I think I want to make a
change for my business and I don't want to use
this plastic. And it was just like a tiny little
(03:08):
thought that I had, and I went home and I
was like, I'm just going to find the solution when
I really was like creating Hero, before even creating the business,
all I wanted to do was just not use plastic
in my own business. It was not meant to be
a business idea. I just didn't want to use all that.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
More so that you thought I need to find a
better way to package my product.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Correct. I wanted something so that I wasn't putting the.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Burden on my customers to like throw it in the
bin and feel crap about it.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
And for anyone playing along at home, when you think
about how much waste there was from sixty sales in
the day, let us take a moment to think about
what the factory of Shean would look.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Like exactly exactly. It's actually terrified. Have you actually ordered
from Shean?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
No, I am morally opposed. But then someone pointed out
that it's not that much better from Amazon. I have
ordered on Amazon, so I'm like, I, actually, that's so true.
I haven't ordered from Shean, but I have seen the
halls on TikTok Oh.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
They're discussing it's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's actually just waste everywhere, Like they're ripping open these
packages and it's just one person buying four things, but
the plastic waste.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Is still lower.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
And it's also like then they just are ordering ridiculous
things for the views and it's the amount of consumption
and waste that companies like and I will say at
least on Amazon, you're only purchasing things that you need,
like you're not doing holes. Yes, well i've never seen
anyone go this is what I got in my Amazon hall.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
No, they do in America, and that's coming here, right,
So they're going to do like all the halls here
because all the fashion is coming here that hasn't launched on.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Amazon yet that's coming. Unfortunately, it's all just plastic crap.
It is it is.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So you went out and you were like, Okay, I
can't find it, and then that's when you decided to
talk to us about that process.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Then well, oh rats, it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, what existed was boxes and paper packaging, both horrible
for my business. Boxes super expensive to ship it just
like three x to my shipping fee.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And then paper was like you put a little droplet
of water on it and it just like breaks apart.
So I was like, I can't use anything like that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And then I went to Woolies and I saw a
fruit and vegetable bag which was compostible, and I was like.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's what I want, that's what I need, and.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So I just took that concept and I took a
photo and I sent it to Ali Barber Manufacturers and
I was like, go make this for me, and they
were like, this is not possible. Took me nine months,
but I was like a dog with a bone. I
was like, I got to solve this thing. And then
nine months later I got my first prototype, which actually
looked good and it looked and acted like plastic, but
(05:36):
it was like strong. And then I put in my
home compost bin and I could see it breaking down
and I was like, oh my god, I think I've
solved my own problem. This is the coolest thing ever.
I guess as an entrepreneur, you just feel so excited
because you're like, I think I solved this. It's all
you want to do in life. You just want to
solve problems. And so then I was like, great, I'm
going to do it. The problem that I had was
that I needed to order ten thousand as a minimum
(05:59):
order quantity.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
How was I going to use ten thousand?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I was shipping sixty orders a day, and so then
I asked all my business friends if they wanted it,
and they were like hell yeah. And so then I
was like, oh my god, I think I've got a business.
Like fifteen out of fifteen people said yes. So I
was like, I think I've got a business idea, and
that's kind of where it all started.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And what do you think made people say yes straight away?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Because obviously it is more expensive than plastic I'm assuming
it is. Yeah, what do you think drove that? And
you she'll just straight away yes from everyone.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I think it's because I use the word sustainable, and
I said, do you want to not use plastic anymore?
I've got this alternative? Can you test it for me?
Would you be interested in just trying it? It was
just a trying moment and they were all like, absolutely,
we want to try that.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I really love that though, because I have to admit
that I am often quite cynical, I think, and I
just always assume that a lot of companies choose the
sustainable option if there is one, because they want to
be able to tell their customers that they are a
sustainable brand. Yeah, they're looking after things on a eco front.
(07:04):
So it's actually quite not that they didn't even know
if they would be able to market as such, I
guess yeah, but that they were straight away like yes.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I mean I think for them it was like if
there is something even a little bit better than what
I'm currently using?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Why not give it a go? When Yeah, I guess
they're witnessing the sheer amount of shit and everyone is right.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
And then also what I find is that customers tend
to complain a lot, and rightfully, so they complain and
they ask questions and they're constantly hounding businesses now about like, hey,
so where do I put this? Do I put this
in the bin? Do I put it in a recycling bin?
What do I do with it? Like I feel like
I'm buying all your bottles of stuff?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
What do I do with it?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
There's no instructions, and so business owners are always trying
to solve that for their customers too.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So it was like a really easy.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yes, yeah yeah, because I guess then they're making up
that cost because they're not dealing with hundreds of customer
inquiries per day. Yeah, so we've all felt that pang
of just oh. And I mean it happens to me
still so often where I will get something I've ordered
or it's pr and it's a giant.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Box that arrives at my house. Yeah, oh cool, what's in?
That's fine?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
The amount of just plastic and crap that's inside that
box for a product that's like a couple of lip glosses.
It's just insane. So we've all sort of had one
of those experiences, I think with plastic. But it was
that pang that then led you to heroes. So were
you for a while then using it for that monogrammed
(08:29):
leather goods sprant?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, that's all I used it for, And then it
wasn't that you dove straight into the hero business now.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So I just remember calling my husband when everyone said
yes they want to try it. I remember calling him going, hey,
I think I've got a business idea and he's like,
what's new.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
He was like, explore it.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And he said to me, I think this is a
really good idea. If you can get our first one
hundred paying customers, I'll leave my job and I'll join
you in that. And so he was like, if you
can do that for me, I'll actually leave my job.
So I was like, challenge accepted. So my job was
to get one hundred paying customers. And you know what,
the way I did that was so clever, Thank you
(09:05):
very much.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Me.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I did a Google ad and I basically like ran
it to a page where I was giving away free mailers,
and I just said, take a free mailer. And then
a week later we had over one thousand people. And
I said to my husband, I'm like, we've got a
thousand customers. He's like, no, they haven't paid for anything yet,
So until you get a hundred. And then about two
months later we had seventy percent of them come back,
which is our first seven hundred paying customers. And then
(09:27):
I was like, oh, I got a business.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
He quit his job, Oh my god, within a few months.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, what do you think is the biggest thing in
sustainable packaging that a lot of brands are going to
jump on or are jumping on right.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Now from what I've seen.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Okay, you know we've heard about this one hundred times,
but refillable packaging is like a huge thing. So like Dermalogica,
for example, they're like focused on refills, constant refills. They
can get a little bit confusing and a little bit messy,
and they're very hard logistically to do, but refills are
a huge one.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And so it's how many things you can't refill?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You can't I'm going to and people don't buy it,
I know, Like that's something that they're focused on. I
think something else is, you know what brands should be
focused on is like more information and more education.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's actually not that hard to do.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So if I was a brand, I would be having
like you know, if you have your beauty products or
you've got a box or something, and they're like, but
I have no space to put on like recycle or
do this or do that, or it's made from XYZ.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Have a little QR code.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I would just want all beauty, any brand to have
a QR code and that can go to a live
page that you can constantly update and has all the
stuff on there.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's something that I think is like such a small
thing that brands can do, but they don't. I think
another thing that brands are doing, which I think is
awesome so tbh or like the breakout hack, what she's
doing is using sugar cane like materials for all of
her beauty packaging as well. So that's like renewable sources
and it's also much easier at end of life. It's
(11:00):
just like a really good natural product that you can use.
So I think there's like a bunch of things that
you can do, but big brands they need to do
is one is think about the consumer first refills. If
customers don't like them and they're not going to use them,
stop focusing on them. Maybe focus on education and teaching
people to not over consume first.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I would say, that's like number one. How do you
think that we can do that? Though? How do you
think businesses can do that?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Because for me as a podcaster, the way that I
do it is I'm like, I know that I'm recommending
another new Miscara, but I'm not telling you to go
buy it. I'm telling you to go buy it if
you're looking for a new one exactly like wait until
you're done finished. You don't need six miscas.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
No one does.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So that's one thing. Another thing I would say is
like multi use products would be really good at this.
So instead of going like buy a shampoo and a
body wash and a face wash and this and that,
and you've got like nine hundred steps in your shower routine,
there are some really cool brands out there that are
like amalgamating I guess few things in one so like
the hair wash as a soap is a body wash
(12:03):
as well, and it works in both capacities. Even do
you with that little hack back in the day. What's
that Dandriff brand that is nice or something?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, the people are that as a face wise, yes,
and like you can actually clear a lot of your
acne with that. And it's an anti Dandriff shampoo as
well because it's antibacterial. Antibacterial, so like multi use products
can actually save on a lot of waste too. It's
like a really simple thing that brands can do.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
What's the biggest thing that you see beauty companies do
in terms of green washing? Because I think that that
is more rife than ever, Like with the people saying
different claims or saying that you can compost something but
you can't, or clean beauty.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
In all of those silly claims, you are saying exactly
the right thing.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I think it's when you use words like we are
more sustainable than before, You're like, uh.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Than what though, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I think it's like the little words in there that
they use eco friendly and sustainable green washing. There was
a study done where they asked a whole like thousands
of consumers what they look for in beauty products when
it comes to labeling, and the first one that they
voted on was non toxic second one was cruelty free,
and the third one was sustainable.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
But what all three of those things are just marketing words, right?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And do you know what's so interesting about this is
that sustainability in a lot of big brands is actually
under the marketing department and not under like product.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Because it just means, like this perception is everything exactly.
They probably plant a tree a year. Yeah, maybe reduced
plastic by five percent over the past twenty years. Correct,
It is just a marketing term, just like toxic non toxic. Well,
does that mean everything's toxic in a large enough dose?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You can't say chemical free either. Everything is a chemical.
It doesn't make sense. So what I want is like
when you are looking at a product, I want you
to train yourself and basically look at it and go, Okay,
someone has said they are a clean beauty product or
they are sustainable. How just ask yourself how? And so
when you ask yourself that question, it's like, okay, doesn't
say anywhere on the bottle what that means. So sometimes
(14:11):
what brands will do is go, we are more green
or we are eco friendly. This bottle is made from
fifty percent bio based materials. And then you have to
like look a little bit further and go you're made
from bio based materials, which actually means the other fifty
percent is petroleum based. Then it also means it can't
go in a recycle bin because it's mixed materials. You're
not making sense. So instead of saying that I'm sustainable,
(14:33):
do you know what brands should floody do, which I
would love is actually just have something on their website
or their report or whatever which says like, we are struggling,
but this is what.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
We're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, you know, I just would love to see a
little bit more transparency around this as well.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
When you're looking at the bottle or package of something,
there's a huge difference between someone that's just said non toxic,
which means nothing, or this product doesn't have XYZ in it,
which might be specific ingredients you're looking like just the
language different. I think it's specifics, exact use, color and fun.
(15:09):
At what stage did hero packaging turn into really fun colors?
I'm sure that it wasn't or did it from the
get go?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It was from the get go. I mean, packaging is
boring as hell.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Sustainability is boring as hell too, Like cardboard boxes are boring.
That's what we do with manufactured boxes all day long,
and so decided to make it a little bit fun. Well,
we have to because and I think that if any
brand is starting and you don't have a personality, what
you're doing is selling a product and you could probably
get that product anywhere. So what you need to do
is have some kind of personality to shine through, to
(15:40):
cut through the noise. Like one thing we did was
so we have compostible packaging, right, we started with three colors, pink, black,
and white. And the pink we chose was like that
millennial pink, you know, Frank Body style, And we thought, well,
Frank body was big at the time, and I remember
just thinking, if we have that pink, so many brands
are trying to copy them, and they're going to use
our pink. And they did, and we got tagged and
(16:02):
we got shared and mentioned on social media so much.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It was like one of the best things that we did.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So we realized that color is actually a big part
of selling our packaging, which a lot of.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
People wouldn't consider. They would just think, oh, just make
it make it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Back, yeah, make it white, like you're plain, that's all
you need, and like that's what packaging is. It's boring,
but packaging can actually like make the entire experience so good.
And you know, when you're starting a brand, the best
thing that can happen to you is like people tag you. Yeah,
you have to be taggable for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yes, to say like thank you for like this looks
like a present or.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yes, and they want to take a photo of it.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yes. I always think of Glossy Air as a good
example of like just brilliant branding. Yes, because I was
in New York once and went into I don't care
about the products, but I went into the store to
take a photo and to like look around at everything
because it was just so esthetic and so oh it's
so beautiful, and the whole experience I so lovely, Like
you want to buy something even if the products aren't good,
because it's an experience.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
But no over consumption, yes, exactly the pouch.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
No, But that happens to me with Charlotte Tilbury too,
you know, because it's so like glittery and like glam
and you think, oh if I because I.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Could look like that, Yeah, I'll look like that very
face tuned, blurring person with glitter over them. That's what
I want when we think about like you touched on refills,
but they're still quite messy.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Is that actually logistically helping? Do you think?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Is it something that's actually going to be really convenient
and scalable for people? Because so many, as you said,
so many people are introducing it into their business model,
and to be completely honest, it is sometimes in really
ridiculous categories.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't know if it's truly scalable, if I'm honest
with you, because I feel like big businesses might be
able to make it work, but it's actually not what
they're trying to do. It's what the customer will end
up doing. And the customer is going to end up
buying the same product in the same bodle over and
over again rather than buy the refills and read and
like pour.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
In something and do something like that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Unless you're making it super easy, like putting a little
fun in there, and then you're like helping them to
do it, it's so.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Hard giving them an incentive, a really good incentive.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yes, Like so exactly, what's that one where you can
return your bottles and get like ten cents you know
kids do that, like you return plastic bottles and then
you get that you can do things like that too,
but ultimately free refills, like but you had to go
in store or something that would be cool.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Oh my god, that would be so then a lot
of people would still them. How would the business make money?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Though, Well, they've got a charge of awful lot for
the upfront bottle and have it just so beautiful that
a lot of people want it. But it's probably then
only like we get free refills for a year and
then you've got to pay for the next year or
something like that, like a subscription.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, maybe that, Yeah, I think that might be the
right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I love a subscription model. But the problem is is
that in this society of overconsumption is that people are
always wanting to try different things. Something on TikTok and
they'll be like, I want to try that new cool brand.
Who cares about the old one? Like, no one's loyal
to different.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It's the social media side of things that it's made
it so much worse.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I have fallen victim to this, Like I do it.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I'm disappointed. Yeah, as good as what it looked like online.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
We can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
This planet is actually not going to survive if we
keep working.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Like it exactly and we are well.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I'm saying that to you as someone that recommends things though,
but once again, it's if.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You need it.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
There was this last year we were talking about a
couple of things from Kmart and then it was sold out.
It like every came up and it's like, guys, yeah,
love that, you love and trust our recommendation so much,
but I'm pretty sure not every single.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Person in Australia needed it. YEP, I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And now you can see Kmart doing the dupes right
like they're doing the MC style dupes as well, and
it's just that thing of like that younger consumer. I
was actually listening to one of your episodes, like that
younger consumer is like really going after these high end products,
but they want the dupe version and they're just buying
them left, right and center. I just I have an
eleven year old girl and her birthday party was they
(20:06):
all just said to me.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I said, what do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And they said, we just want to go to kmart
and buy like all the skincare jubes. And I was like, no,
can we go and play like mini golf or something.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, that's what they mean. Caramont is fine. I will
say it's going on.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
If I was.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Eleven eleven and buying skincare Jube, no no, I was like, no,
that's not happening.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
What would you say with Hero was the biggest challenge
in trying to make the packaging sustainable? You said it
took nine months?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Did it took nine months to make it sustainable and
to make it what I wanted?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
That was the That was the biggest challenge of all time.
Second challenge I will say is that sustainable products are
more expensive, So trying to convince every brand in Australia
to buy sustainable products, even though they want to be
a sustainable brand, they can't justify the price and therefore they'll.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Go back to the cheaper products.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
The cheaper and nasty thing is that's a really big
part of my business that we're trying to convince people.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, like that, it's really important.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So what we do, actually I think it's pretty smart,
is try and educate the end customer to demand sustainability
from the brands that they buy from. So we're not
educating the brands we're educating the end consumers to demand
that from from the brands.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, you went the opposite from industry, the big dogs.
How do you think people can cut through the noise
in a crowded market?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So I actually came prepared for this question, by the way,
because I have like six things that I want to
tell everyone that I think that they need to do.
So the first one is, instead of thinking about being better,
I want everyone to think about being remarkably different from
anyone else. So if you're starting, don't think about like,
how can I be better than that brand?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Or No, it doesn't work if someone will come and
beat you with that.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I think being remarkably different is such an interesting way
to look at things. So, for example, there's so much
talk about clean beauty. You know everyone is clean beauty
now right, There is a brand that's come out and
said we're dirty beauty, and I love that love because
it's about creating skincare from the soil and they use
grounded stuff and they call it dirty beauty and I.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Was like, so just to play at different, it shows
how silly the whole clean beauty.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yes, exactly. I want everyone to think about being really different.
Second thing I would do is to immediately go and
send out your products and gain feedback from one hundred
people straight away. Those people are going to be everything
to you because you need to know how to improve
really quickly. I would also say create the VIP focus
group and the breakout hack. Like Rach does this really well.
(22:39):
Every time she launches a new product or a brand,
she has a focus group or multiple focus groups where
she asks them questions and then iterates her products based
on their feedback, so they feel like they've created the
products with her. She has buy in from them, and
then they go and tell all their friends, so immediately
she's got inbuilt customers, which I just love. Number four
(23:00):
is I play pickleball.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I don't know. I forgot about you and the pickaball.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Okay, when I were talking, you were like going on
about pickleballs.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I feel the same about netball, do you really?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Sir? Still yes? Neple is for like you when you're eleven.
It's not for eleven year olds.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I don't know if I've met any grown ups who play,
you've met me. Well, I love pickleball, and my point
is that, like if I was starting a beauty brand,
I would niche down so much into something like to
the point of obsession.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So it's like, I love pickleball, you love netple.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I would create a beauty or skincare brand based on
you know, women who love pickleball.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Chafe from it all.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, you know, something really specific and like go right down,
because then you've got your customers, even if it's one
hundred people, like, you've got them for life.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And I think that could be the product to go
to for that group.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I forget who said it, but I was listening to
someone speak once and they pointed out, all you need
is a hundred people that believe in you, willing to
spend one hundred dollars over the course of a year.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And that's one hundred thousand dollars, that's ten thousand.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Oh but no, it's exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You need to get a thousand raving fans basically. And
it's like, if you have a thousand raving fans, max
is not where I write, but is no put me
on the court watch miss Slay. So it's exactly that
you need to have a thousand people and if they
are so obsessed with you, then that's the one thing
that you need. That's all you need because they'll go
and tell other people as well. But the way to
(24:33):
get a thousand is really to like niche down. The
fifth point I want to say is be your own media.
So not just like founder content, like everyone is doing
this founder content. What I would do is like have
like infographics. I would have reports on like the things
that you're doing, like beauty reports and information. You know,
if people are on this podcast, that's amazing for their brand, right,
(24:55):
but if they don't have the opportunity to come on
something like this, create your own podcast, become your own media,
and like actually get the word out that you are
knowledgeable and you're like an authority.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
In the space that you're in, because then I guess
you get lots of opportunities to talk about things that
you're knowledgeable.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But then therefore your product as well, correct because you
don't talk about your product at all with the media.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
But if you are so knowledgeable about that industry, people like,
if she knows so much about that, that product's.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Going to be good. Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And number six, and this is the fun one is
like if I'm starting a beauty brand, I want to
get in front of people in real life, like do
your activations do the little pop ups, like get in
front of people, do host a little event. You know,
when I was trying to sell my book, I didn't
know really how to get the word out there, and
so I just hosted this lunch. It cost me two
thousand dollars okay, for this lunch, I had to pay
(25:43):
for I think fifteen people, and I just invited like
people in business that I knew, and just by them
posting about it and then saying like I love this book.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Or like I love being at this lunch. I sold
hundreds of books that day. So, like in real life things,
there's nothing that can be because.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
The thing is is that I guess even if those
people didn't have huge followings or anything, a lot of
people that do follow them would be keen business owners.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Or keen niching down exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Jumping ten years into the future, looking back at the
beauty industry and our sustainability efforts today, what's one thing
that you hope the industry does less of and one
thing that you hope we start doing more of to
truly earn the title of a more sustainable future In
ten years.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I think it's exactly what you said.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
One thing that everyone should be doing less of is
the over consumption and the running to the store when
there's a trending video. Okay, please like really second guess
that temptation to go and run and buy something that's trending.
I have done that one hundred times, and it's so silly.
Every single time I regret it. I'm like, it's a
nice product, but like, oh my god, I didn't need it.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
It's also embarrassing. Why not embarrassing, but why do you
want the same thing that everyone else has got?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I feel like it's just a dopamine hit. We can't
help it. We've got to control it somehow. So I
would like that to be the less part of it.
The more I would say is this is going to
sound a little bit high level, but more regulation from governments.
Oh and finding companies that do the wrong thing. Just
(27:13):
give them a fine for doing crappy business practices, for
saying words like eco friendly without backing it up, using
materials that are awful and can't be recycled or you know,
can't it has to go into landfill, like have like
a teered system I know in the UK they've implemented that,
but just having more regulation around that exactly tax those
(27:33):
businesses that are doing the wrong thing, and then the
burden is not on the customer.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It's on the businesses to do the right thing. Well,
thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I feel like I could just keep talking, but we've
already been talking for an.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Hour, so so have we. That was such a good conversation.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I just adore her, and I'm sure that everyone loved
that conversation as much as I loved having it. You
can find all of the links to Hero Packaging and
Anita's book in our show notes. Make sure to hit
subscribes you don't miss any of our next deep dives,
and thanks for tuning in to the formula
Speaker 1 (28:13):
H
You're listening to I'MM with mea podcast. Makeup is my therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hello, and welcome to you beauty. This is the formula
and I'm Keeley mccarrott. Have you ever ordered a tiny,
little beauty product and then it arrived in a huge
box filled with enough bubble wrap to choke a whale?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know I have, and the guilt is real.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Today we're deep diving into a topic that is becoming
non negotiable for all of us, sustainable beauty.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Our guest is the entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Who solved her own business's massive packaging problem and accidentally
became Australia's leading expert in eco friendly shipping.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
She's the co founder and CEO of Hero.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Packaging, servicing over forty five thousand online retailers, and the
author of Sell Anything Online. Get ready to find out
what the future of our routines looks like with less waste.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Welcome to the Formula.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Anita Sukha, you're such beautiful skill But how all right?
So let's start with the moment that changed everything. You've
told the story of seeing your own children playing in
a pile of plastic waste from your first business. Like,
explain how you felt in that moment and what was
(01:30):
the exact spark that made you decide I really need
to solve this problem with waste.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, that's a big question. I wasn't explaining. Also, what
your first business, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So before Hero, I had this other business which was
like personalizing leather goods onto you know, bags and wallets
and things, and I loved it. It was called Olivia
and Co.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And it was like a direct copy of you know,
The Daily Edited. I just wanted to get out of.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
A nine to five and I started this business and
I just loved it. Like I realized that that's all
I wanted to do in my life was be in business.
And so this small business was growing and it was
like one order a day, ten orders a day, and
then there was this one moment, like it was peak
season and I had sixty orders coming in a day
and I was so excited.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It was school holidays. I was packaging orders.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I got my two girls, who were really young at
the time, and they came in and they were packing
with me, and it was just like this one moment
I looked around the room and it was packages everywhere,
like piled up sixty eighty packages, all plastic, all single use,
and my kids were sitting there in the middle of
the piles, like playing with all that waste and thinking
it was so cool and tying it up and platting it.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And I was like, that's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I never really thought about waste before, like all sustainability.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It wasn't really something that I grew up with.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But I looked around the room and I was like,
m that looks really terrible, and I can't believe this
is one business, one business day, one person making all
this waste, and it's going to go straight into the bin.
And so it was that moment I looked around and
I was like, I think I want to make a
change for my business and I don't want to use
this plastic. And it was just like a tiny little
(03:08):
thought that I had, and I went home and I
was like, I'm just going to find the solution when
I really was like creating Hero, before even creating the business,
all I wanted to do was just not use plastic
in my own business. It was not meant to be
a business idea. I just didn't want to use all that.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
More so that you thought I need to find a
better way to package my product.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Correct. I wanted something so that I wasn't putting the.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Burden on my customers to like throw it in the
bin and feel crap about it.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
And for anyone playing along at home, when you think
about how much waste there was from sixty sales in
the day, let us take a moment to think about
what the factory of Shean would look.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Like exactly exactly. It's actually terrified. Have you actually ordered
from Shean?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
No, I am morally opposed. But then someone pointed out
that it's not that much better from Amazon. I have
ordered on Amazon, so I'm like, I, actually, that's so true.
I haven't ordered from Shean, but I have seen the
halls on TikTok Oh.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
They're discussing it's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's actually just waste everywhere, Like they're ripping open these
packages and it's just one person buying four things, but
the plastic waste.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Is still lower.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
And it's also like then they just are ordering ridiculous
things for the views and it's the amount of consumption
and waste that companies like and I will say at
least on Amazon, you're only purchasing things that you need,
like you're not doing holes. Yes, well i've never seen
anyone go this is what I got in my Amazon hall.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
No, they do in America, and that's coming here, right,
So they're going to do like all the halls here
because all the fashion is coming here that hasn't launched on.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Amazon yet that's coming. Unfortunately, it's all just plastic crap.
It is it is.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So you went out and you were like, Okay, I
can't find it, and then that's when you decided to
talk to us about that process.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Then well, oh rats, it doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, what existed was boxes and paper packaging, both horrible
for my business. Boxes super expensive to ship it just
like three x to my shipping fee.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And then paper was like you put a little droplet
of water on it and it just like breaks apart.
So I was like, I can't use anything like that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And then I went to Woolies and I saw a
fruit and vegetable bag which was compostible, and I was like.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's what I want, that's what I need, and.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So I just took that concept and I took a
photo and I sent it to Ali Barber Manufacturers and
I was like, go make this for me, and they
were like, this is not possible. Took me nine months,
but I was like a dog with a bone. I
was like, I got to solve this thing. And then
nine months later I got my first prototype, which actually
looked good and it looked and acted like plastic, but
(05:36):
it was like strong. And then I put in my
home compost bin and I could see it breaking down
and I was like, oh my god, I think I've
solved my own problem. This is the coolest thing ever.
I guess as an entrepreneur, you just feel so excited
because you're like, I think I solved this. It's all
you want to do in life. You just want to
solve problems. And so then I was like, great, I'm
going to do it. The problem that I had was
that I needed to order ten thousand as a minimum
(05:59):
order quantity.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
How was I going to use ten thousand?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I was shipping sixty orders a day, and so then
I asked all my business friends if they wanted it,
and they were like hell yeah. And so then I
was like, oh my god, I think I've got a business.
Like fifteen out of fifteen people said yes. So I
was like, I think I've got a business idea, and
that's kind of where it all started.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And what do you think made people say yes straight away?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Because obviously it is more expensive than plastic I'm assuming
it is. Yeah, what do you think drove that? And
you she'll just straight away yes from everyone.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I think it's because I use the word sustainable, and
I said, do you want to not use plastic anymore?
I've got this alternative? Can you test it for me?
Would you be interested in just trying it? It was
just a trying moment and they were all like, absolutely,
we want to try that.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I really love that though, because I have to admit
that I am often quite cynical, I think, and I
just always assume that a lot of companies choose the
sustainable option if there is one, because they want to
be able to tell their customers that they are a
sustainable brand. Yeah, they're looking after things on a eco front.
(07:04):
So it's actually quite not that they didn't even know
if they would be able to market as such, I
guess yeah, but that they were straight away like yes.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I mean I think for them it was like if
there is something even a little bit better than what
I'm currently using?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Why not give it a go? When Yeah, I guess
they're witnessing the sheer amount of shit and everyone is right.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
And then also what I find is that customers tend
to complain a lot, and rightfully, so they complain and
they ask questions and they're constantly hounding businesses now about like, hey,
so where do I put this? Do I put this
in the bin? Do I put it in a recycling bin?
What do I do with it? Like I feel like
I'm buying all your bottles of stuff?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
What do I do with it?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
There's no instructions, and so business owners are always trying
to solve that for their customers too.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So it was like a really easy.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yes, yeah yeah, because I guess then they're making up
that cost because they're not dealing with hundreds of customer
inquiries per day. Yeah, so we've all felt that pang
of just oh. And I mean it happens to me
still so often where I will get something I've ordered
or it's pr and it's a giant.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Box that arrives at my house. Yeah, oh cool, what's in?
That's fine?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
The amount of just plastic and crap that's inside that
box for a product that's like a couple of lip glosses.
It's just insane. So we've all sort of had one
of those experiences, I think with plastic. But it was
that pang that then led you to heroes. So were
you for a while then using it for that monogrammed
(08:29):
leather goods sprant?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, that's all I used it for, And then it
wasn't that you dove straight into the hero business now.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So I just remember calling my husband when everyone said
yes they want to try it. I remember calling him going, hey,
I think I've got a business idea and he's like,
what's new.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
He was like, explore it.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And he said to me, I think this is a
really good idea. If you can get our first one
hundred paying customers, I'll leave my job and I'll join
you in that. And so he was like, if you
can do that for me, I'll actually leave my job.
So I was like, challenge accepted. So my job was
to get one hundred paying customers. And you know what,
the way I did that was so clever, Thank you
(09:05):
very much.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Me.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I did a Google ad and I basically like ran
it to a page where I was giving away free mailers,
and I just said, take a free mailer. And then
a week later we had over one thousand people. And
I said to my husband, I'm like, we've got a
thousand customers. He's like, no, they haven't paid for anything yet,
So until you get a hundred. And then about two
months later we had seventy percent of them come back,
which is our first seven hundred paying customers. And then
(09:27):
I was like, oh, I got a business.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
He quit his job, Oh my god, within a few months.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, what do you think is the biggest thing in
sustainable packaging that a lot of brands are going to
jump on or are jumping on right.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Now from what I've seen.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Okay, you know we've heard about this one hundred times,
but refillable packaging is like a huge thing. So like Dermalogica,
for example, they're like focused on refills, constant refills. They
can get a little bit confusing and a little bit messy,
and they're very hard logistically to do, but refills are
a huge one.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And so it's how many things you can't refill?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You can't I'm going to and people don't buy it,
I know, Like that's something that they're focused on. I
think something else is, you know what brands should be
focused on is like more information and more education.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's actually not that hard to do.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So if I was a brand, I would be having
like you know, if you have your beauty products or
you've got a box or something, and they're like, but
I have no space to put on like recycle or
do this or do that, or it's made from XYZ.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Have a little QR code.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I would just want all beauty, any brand to have
a QR code and that can go to a live
page that you can constantly update and has all the
stuff on there.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's something that I think is like such a small
thing that brands can do, but they don't. I think
another thing that brands are doing, which I think is
awesome so tbh or like the breakout hack, what she's
doing is using sugar cane like materials for all of
her beauty packaging as well. So that's like renewable sources
and it's also much easier at end of life. It's
(11:00):
just like a really good natural product that you can use.
So I think there's like a bunch of things that
you can do, but big brands they need to do
is one is think about the consumer first refills. If
customers don't like them and they're not going to use them,
stop focusing on them. Maybe focus on education and teaching
people to not over consume first.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I would say, that's like number one. How do you
think that we can do that? Though? How do you
think businesses can do that?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Because for me as a podcaster, the way that I
do it is I'm like, I know that I'm recommending
another new Miscara, but I'm not telling you to go
buy it. I'm telling you to go buy it if
you're looking for a new one exactly like wait until
you're done finished. You don't need six miscas.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
No one does.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So that's one thing. Another thing I would say is
like multi use products would be really good at this.
So instead of going like buy a shampoo and a
body wash and a face wash and this and that,
and you've got like nine hundred steps in your shower routine,
there are some really cool brands out there that are
like amalgamating I guess few things in one so like
the hair wash as a soap is a body wash
(12:03):
as well, and it works in both capacities. Even do
you with that little hack back in the day. What's
that Dandriff brand that is nice or something?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, the people are that as a face wise, yes,
and like you can actually clear a lot of your
acne with that. And it's an anti Dandriff shampoo as
well because it's antibacterial. Antibacterial, so like multi use products
can actually save on a lot of waste too. It's
like a really simple thing that brands can do.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
What's the biggest thing that you see beauty companies do
in terms of green washing? Because I think that that
is more rife than ever, Like with the people saying
different claims or saying that you can compost something but
you can't, or clean beauty.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
In all of those silly claims, you are saying exactly
the right thing.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I think it's when you use words like we are
more sustainable than before, You're like, uh.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Than what though, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I think it's like the little words in there that
they use eco friendly and sustainable green washing. There was
a study done where they asked a whole like thousands
of consumers what they look for in beauty products when
it comes to labeling, and the first one that they
voted on was non toxic second one was cruelty free,
and the third one was sustainable.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
But what all three of those things are just marketing words, right?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And do you know what's so interesting about this is
that sustainability in a lot of big brands is actually
under the marketing department and not under like product.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Because it just means, like this perception is everything exactly.
They probably plant a tree a year. Yeah, maybe reduced
plastic by five percent over the past twenty years. Correct,
It is just a marketing term, just like toxic non toxic. Well,
does that mean everything's toxic in a large enough dose?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You can't say chemical free either. Everything is a chemical.
It doesn't make sense. So what I want is like
when you are looking at a product, I want you
to train yourself and basically look at it and go, Okay,
someone has said they are a clean beauty product or
they are sustainable. How just ask yourself how? And so
when you ask yourself that question, it's like, okay, doesn't
say anywhere on the bottle what that means. So sometimes
(14:11):
what brands will do is go, we are more green
or we are eco friendly. This bottle is made from
fifty percent bio based materials. And then you have to
like look a little bit further and go you're made
from bio based materials, which actually means the other fifty
percent is petroleum based. Then it also means it can't
go in a recycle bin because it's mixed materials. You're
not making sense. So instead of saying that I'm sustainable,
(14:33):
do you know what brands should floody do, which I
would love is actually just have something on their website
or their report or whatever which says like, we are struggling,
but this is what.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
We're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, you know, I just would love to see a
little bit more transparency around this as well.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
When you're looking at the bottle or package of something,
there's a huge difference between someone that's just said non toxic,
which means nothing, or this product doesn't have XYZ in it,
which might be specific ingredients you're looking like just the
language different. I think it's specifics, exact use, color and fun.
(15:09):
At what stage did hero packaging turn into really fun colors?
I'm sure that it wasn't or did it from the
get go?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It was from the get go. I mean, packaging is
boring as hell.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Sustainability is boring as hell too, Like cardboard boxes are boring.
That's what we do with manufactured boxes all day long,
and so decided to make it a little bit fun. Well,
we have to because and I think that if any
brand is starting and you don't have a personality, what
you're doing is selling a product and you could probably
get that product anywhere. So what you need to do
is have some kind of personality to shine through, to
(15:40):
cut through the noise. Like one thing we did was
so we have compostible packaging, right, we started with three colors, pink, black,
and white. And the pink we chose was like that
millennial pink, you know, Frank Body style, And we thought, well,
Frank body was big at the time, and I remember
just thinking, if we have that pink, so many brands
are trying to copy them, and they're going to use
our pink. And they did, and we got tagged and
(16:02):
we got shared and mentioned on social media so much.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It was like one of the best things that we did.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So we realized that color is actually a big part
of selling our packaging, which a lot of.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
People wouldn't consider. They would just think, oh, just make
it make it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Back, yeah, make it white, like you're plain, that's all
you need, and like that's what packaging is. It's boring,
but packaging can actually like make the entire experience so good.
And you know, when you're starting a brand, the best
thing that can happen to you is like people tag you. Yeah,
you have to be taggable for that to happen.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yes, to say like thank you for like this looks
like a present or.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yes, and they want to take a photo of it.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yes. I always think of Glossy Air as a good
example of like just brilliant branding. Yes, because I was
in New York once and went into I don't care
about the products, but I went into the store to
take a photo and to like look around at everything
because it was just so esthetic and so oh it's
so beautiful, and the whole experience I so lovely, Like
you want to buy something even if the products aren't good,
because it's an experience.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
But no over consumption, yes, exactly the pouch.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
No, But that happens to me with Charlotte Tilbury too,
you know, because it's so like glittery and like glam
and you think, oh if I because I.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Could look like that, Yeah, I'll look like that very
face tuned, blurring person with glitter over them. That's what
I want when we think about like you touched on refills,
but they're still quite messy.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Is that actually logistically helping? Do you think?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Is it something that's actually going to be really convenient
and scalable for people? Because so many, as you said,
so many people are introducing it into their business model,
and to be completely honest, it is sometimes in really
ridiculous categories.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't know if it's truly scalable, if I'm honest
with you, because I feel like big businesses might be
able to make it work, but it's actually not what
they're trying to do. It's what the customer will end
up doing. And the customer is going to end up
buying the same product in the same bodle over and
over again rather than buy the refills and read and
like pour.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
In something and do something like that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Unless you're making it super easy, like putting a little
fun in there, and then you're like helping them to
do it, it's so.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Hard giving them an incentive, a really good incentive.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yes, Like so exactly, what's that one where you can
return your bottles and get like ten cents you know
kids do that, like you return plastic bottles and then
you get that you can do things like that too,
but ultimately free refills, like but you had to go
in store or something that would be cool.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Oh my god, that would be so then a lot
of people would still them. How would the business make money?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Though, Well, they've got a charge of awful lot for
the upfront bottle and have it just so beautiful that
a lot of people want it. But it's probably then
only like we get free refills for a year and
then you've got to pay for the next year or
something like that, like a subscription.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, maybe that, Yeah, I think that might be the
right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I love a subscription model. But the problem is is
that in this society of overconsumption is that people are
always wanting to try different things. Something on TikTok and
they'll be like, I want to try that new cool brand.
Who cares about the old one? Like, no one's loyal
to different.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It's the social media side of things that it's made
it so much worse.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I have fallen victim to this, Like I do it.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I'm disappointed. Yeah, as good as what it looked like online.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
We can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
This planet is actually not going to survive if we
keep working.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Like it exactly and we are well.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I'm saying that to you as someone that recommends things though,
but once again, it's if.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You need it.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
There was this last year we were talking about a
couple of things from Kmart and then it was sold out.
It like every came up and it's like, guys, yeah,
love that, you love and trust our recommendation so much,
but I'm pretty sure not every single.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Person in Australia needed it. YEP, I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
And now you can see Kmart doing the dupes right
like they're doing the MC style dupes as well, and
it's just that thing of like that younger consumer. I
was actually listening to one of your episodes, like that
younger consumer is like really going after these high end products,
but they want the dupe version and they're just buying
them left, right and center. I just I have an
eleven year old girl and her birthday party was they
(20:06):
all just said to me.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I said, what do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And they said, we just want to go to kmart
and buy like all the skincare jubes. And I was like, no,
can we go and play like mini golf or something.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, that's what they mean. Caramont is fine. I will
say it's going on.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
If I was.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Eleven eleven and buying skincare Jube, no no, I was like, no,
that's not happening.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
What would you say with Hero was the biggest challenge
in trying to make the packaging sustainable? You said it
took nine months?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Did it took nine months to make it sustainable and
to make it what I wanted?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
That was the That was the biggest challenge of all time.
Second challenge I will say is that sustainable products are
more expensive, So trying to convince every brand in Australia
to buy sustainable products, even though they want to be
a sustainable brand, they can't justify the price and therefore they'll.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Go back to the cheaper products.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
The cheaper and nasty thing is that's a really big
part of my business that we're trying to convince people.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, like that, it's really important.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So what we do, actually I think it's pretty smart,
is try and educate the end customer to demand sustainability
from the brands that they buy from. So we're not
educating the brands we're educating the end consumers to demand
that from from the brands.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, you went the opposite from industry, the big dogs.
How do you think people can cut through the noise
in a crowded market?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So I actually came prepared for this question, by the way,
because I have like six things that I want to
tell everyone that I think that they need to do.
So the first one is, instead of thinking about being better,
I want everyone to think about being remarkably different from
anyone else. So if you're starting, don't think about like,
how can I be better than that brand?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Or No, it doesn't work if someone will come and
beat you with that.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I think being remarkably different is such an interesting way
to look at things. So, for example, there's so much
talk about clean beauty. You know everyone is clean beauty
now right, There is a brand that's come out and
said we're dirty beauty, and I love that love because
it's about creating skincare from the soil and they use
grounded stuff and they call it dirty beauty and I.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Was like, so just to play at different, it shows
how silly the whole clean beauty.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yes, exactly. I want everyone to think about being really different.
Second thing I would do is to immediately go and
send out your products and gain feedback from one hundred
people straight away. Those people are going to be everything
to you because you need to know how to improve
really quickly. I would also say create the VIP focus
group and the breakout hack. Like Rach does this really well.
(22:39):
Every time she launches a new product or a brand,
she has a focus group or multiple focus groups where
she asks them questions and then iterates her products based
on their feedback, so they feel like they've created the
products with her. She has buy in from them, and
then they go and tell all their friends, so immediately
she's got inbuilt customers, which I just love. Number four
(23:00):
is I play pickleball.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I don't know. I forgot about you and the pickaball.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Okay, when I were talking, you were like going on
about pickleballs.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I feel the same about netball, do you really?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Sir? Still yes? Neple is for like you when you're eleven.
It's not for eleven year olds.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I don't know if I've met any grown ups who play,
you've met me. Well, I love pickleball, and my point
is that, like if I was starting a beauty brand,
I would niche down so much into something like to
the point of obsession.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So it's like, I love pickleball, you love netple.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I would create a beauty or skincare brand based on
you know, women who love pickleball.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Chafe from it all.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, you know, something really specific and like go right down,
because then you've got your customers, even if it's one
hundred people, like, you've got them for life.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And I think that could be the product to go
to for that group.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I forget who said it, but I was listening to
someone speak once and they pointed out, all you need
is a hundred people that believe in you, willing to
spend one hundred dollars over the course of a year.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And that's one hundred thousand dollars, that's ten thousand.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Oh but no, it's exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You need to get a thousand raving fans basically. And
it's like, if you have a thousand raving fans, max
is not where I write, but is no put me
on the court watch miss Slay. So it's exactly that
you need to have a thousand people and if they
are so obsessed with you, then that's the one thing
that you need. That's all you need because they'll go
and tell other people as well. But the way to
(24:33):
get a thousand is really to like niche down. The
fifth point I want to say is be your own media.
So not just like founder content, like everyone is doing
this founder content. What I would do is like have
like infographics. I would have reports on like the things
that you're doing, like beauty reports and information. You know,
if people are on this podcast, that's amazing for their brand, right,
(24:55):
but if they don't have the opportunity to come on
something like this, create your own podcast, become your own media,
and like actually get the word out that you are
knowledgeable and you're like an authority.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
In the space that you're in, because then I guess
you get lots of opportunities to talk about things that
you're knowledgeable.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But then therefore your product as well, correct because you
don't talk about your product at all with the media.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
But if you are so knowledgeable about that industry, people like,
if she knows so much about that, that product's.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Going to be good. Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And number six, and this is the fun one is
like if I'm starting a beauty brand, I want to
get in front of people in real life, like do
your activations do the little pop ups, like get in
front of people, do host a little event. You know,
when I was trying to sell my book, I didn't
know really how to get the word out there, and
so I just hosted this lunch. It cost me two
thousand dollars okay, for this lunch, I had to pay
(25:43):
for I think fifteen people, and I just invited like
people in business that I knew, and just by them
posting about it and then saying like I love this book.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Or like I love being at this lunch. I sold
hundreds of books that day. So, like in real life things,
there's nothing that can be because.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
The thing is is that I guess even if those
people didn't have huge followings or anything, a lot of
people that do follow them would be keen business owners.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Or keen niching down exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Jumping ten years into the future, looking back at the
beauty industry and our sustainability efforts today, what's one thing
that you hope the industry does less of and one
thing that you hope we start doing more of to
truly earn the title of a more sustainable future In
ten years.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I think it's exactly what you said.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
One thing that everyone should be doing less of is
the over consumption and the running to the store when
there's a trending video. Okay, please like really second guess
that temptation to go and run and buy something that's trending.
I have done that one hundred times, and it's so silly.
Every single time I regret it. I'm like, it's a
nice product, but like, oh my god, I didn't need it.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
It's also embarrassing. Why not embarrassing, but why do you
want the same thing that everyone else has got?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I feel like it's just a dopamine hit. We can't
help it. We've got to control it somehow. So I
would like that to be the less part of it.
The more I would say is this is going to
sound a little bit high level, but more regulation from governments.
Oh and finding companies that do the wrong thing. Just
(27:13):
give them a fine for doing crappy business practices, for
saying words like eco friendly without backing it up, using
materials that are awful and can't be recycled or you know,
can't it has to go into landfill, like have like
a teered system I know in the UK they've implemented that,
but just having more regulation around that exactly tax those
(27:33):
businesses that are doing the wrong thing, and then the
burden is not on the customer.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It's on the businesses to do the right thing. Well,
thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I feel like I could just keep talking, but we've
already been talking for an.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Hour, so so have we. That was such a good conversation.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I just adore her, and I'm sure that everyone loved
that conversation as much as I loved having it. You
can find all of the links to Hero Packaging and
Anita's book in our show notes. Make sure to hit
subscribes you don't miss any of our next deep dives,
and thanks for tuning in to the formula
Speaker 1 (28:13):
H
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