December 8, 2025 • 22 mins
Forget everything you thought you knew about your ageing journey: from your mid-twenties, your collagen levels are on a downward trajectory! And if you want to hold onto the bounce of your baby cheeks, you need to understand the science of stimulation.
To get the real facts, Kelly's talking to cosmetic doctor Dr. Yalda for a straight-up, science-based discussion about collagen stimulators (one of the most buzzed-about treatments in aesthetics)! We cover everything from setting realistic expectations (results can take months!) to the critical role of your lifestyle (yes, you need to be eating enough protein!). Plus, Dr. Yalda reveals the biggest red flags to watch out for when choosing a practitioner and chats the two bizarre TikTok beauty trends that she thinks should be banned forever.
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Hosts: Kelly McCarren
Guest: Dr Yalda Jamali
Producer: Sophie Campbell
Audio Producer: Tegan Sadler
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a mum with mea podcast. Makeup is
my therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey, beauty lovers, it's kel here and welcome back to
the formula. Now, before we dive into today's episode, I
need to give you a quick heads up about how
we are going to be talking about the treatments today.
So you'll notice that doctor Yoda and I are using
very general terms things like collagen stimulating treatments and volumeizing,
(00:46):
rather than specific brand names or product names. That is
because brand names and products are really heavily regulated by
the TGA, and it's the only way that we can
have this conversation and stay compliant. But if you go
away and google what these terms mean, you will understand
what we are referring to. So we are doing this
(01:06):
week in try to give you educational content where possible,
while following all the guidelines because no one wants to
get into trouble. This whole conversation is joeneral in nature.
It doesn't take anyone's individual circumstances into account, so please
always speak to a qualified health practitioner before considering any
(01:26):
sort of cosmetic treatment. I've always been honest about treatments
I try, and today we are diving straight into collagen stimulators,
one of the most talked about treatments in esthetics right now,
which I've tried a bunch of them over the past
few years and they're pretty damn good. Today, I'm joined
by doctor Yalder from Epios Cosmetic Clinic to break down
(01:48):
the real science behind these treatments. Doctor Yalder, Welcome to
the formula.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You are such beautiful skill.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
But how all right, doctor Yalder? Can you please I
just said that so seriously, Doctor Yolder, can you please
kick things off for us by explaining what an earth
a collagen stimulator is and how does it work?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Very good question.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
A collagen stimulator is actually an umbrella term. It's a
tome that's been thrown around everywhere, but I think it's
important to kind of discuss what that entails. It could
be as simple as your skin care. Some skincare can
stimulate collagen how well, when use peptides, retinoids, vitamin C.
So there are lots of evidence to suggest that skincare
(02:32):
can stimulate collagen.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Because it's promoting that cell turnover.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Absolutely and also some ingredients can penetrate to the middle
layer of the skin, the dermis, and that's where our fibroblasts,
the cells that are essentially responsible for making our collagen
and elastin live and it can kind of wake them up.
Fibroblasts are really important when it comes to collagen stimulation.
But yeah, so the variety of treatments that falls under
(02:56):
this is quite big.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And for anyone playing along at home, I mean, I'm
sure that most ubis are aware. But if someone is
like that, why why are we looking for more collagen
or why are we trying to stimulate it? We could
use your six month old baby as a good example. Absolutely,
that's perfect skin exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So his skin at the moment is very plump, and
that's because it's perfect as plump is soft, it's constantly
regenerating itself. It's daily, sometimes even hourly. When you're reaching
your twenties and your thirties, your cell turnover is so
slow compared to when you were a baby, and that's
why we get the skin changes. And then also it's
important to note that from your mid twenties, unfortunately, we
(03:35):
lose collagen. It's a downward trajectory. Basically, downward spiral exactly.
And look, it comes with the joy of being a lot.
I don't want to put like a negative onto this.
Aging is a privilege.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
As you get older. Yes, you might not have as
much college, but you actually don't care.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, and also like you've lived life, you've got experiences
instead of it. But yeah, this is why people are
talking about it because as we lose collagen, you essentially
your skin is not as firm as plump and then
those fine lines and wrinkles are more noticeable. So that's
why people are going towards these treatments.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So let's just say that someone is looking for some
sort of a collagen stimulator. Before we get into the
technical stuff, walk me through what the experience would look
like like what does someone actually go through when they
walk into the door to walking back out.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So most of my patients, they will require a consultation
to begin with. If someone is completely new to cosmetic treatments,
I don't really think it's the right thing to do
to treat them on the same day. They're kind of
bombarded with so much information in the consult that they
kind of need a bit of time to go away.
Think about it, Think about whether that's the right treatment
(04:43):
that we've recommended. The pricing's also really important. And also
the other thing is is that because we can't show
our work online in terms of like before and afters,
I kind of find that.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It's a bit strange.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You can, like the patient can't ask for a portfolio
and you can show them in the room, but it
puts them like on the spot and you kind of like, hey,
do you want me to kind of so do you
want me to come out?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
It's an awful lot of life.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, it's a bit intimidating. They've just met you, they've
seen your work, they've got all of this information, and
it's better for them to go away think about it,
make sure you're the right practitioner for them, make sure
they're happy to spend that money and then come back.
So if a patient walks through the door, depending on
what age they are, we would sit with them, look
at what their concerns are. You can't address all concerns
(05:31):
with all treatments, so kind of prioritizing the concerns based
on their budget coming up the treatment plan. Most of
these treatment plans will have a course like it's not
really a one off making sure that they're happy with
the maintenance program as well, and then if they're happy,
they would book another appointment for the actual treatment, and
then that's really where the relationship starts from. It's a relationship.
I would hate to say that it's you know, you
(05:53):
come and see me once and then you're really happy
for ten years. Unfortunately that doesn't even happen with surgery,
So it's a relationship. I guess that initial consults really
important both for the patient and the practitioner to kind
of make sure that they gel.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, you don't want someone that is going to be
coming to you all the time and winging about every
single thing, and you want a good patient as well.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Sure thing I might and I always talk about.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know, you touched on it's not just a one
off thing that if someone has got some money to
spend and they're thinking about going and getting a facial
treatment or a facial whatnot. I'm always like, just go
and buy one to two really good serums because you're
going to get more benefits out of that than just
like a random one off. It's like going to the
gym once.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, it's for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I kind of talk about it in terms of tears right,
You've got to make sure that your home stuff is
you've got it down to a tee, your skincare, whether
you're on an led lighte, you know, you're you've got
a really good lifestyle in terms of exercising and not
smoking and UV protection and eating enough protein. So you've
got to make sure that that's kind of at least
(06:56):
like vaguely healthy.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And then rather than someone that uses soap no sunscreen, yeah,
like like the smokes a pack and then they're like, yeah,
please help.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Exactly exactly, And I think just touching up on that
as well.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
In terms of collagen production.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Your body cannot make collisen from thin air, Like your
body's making that collagen.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
So you have to fuel it.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So you've got to have enough protein and take is
that why we have protein? Well, you need protein because
of just like the building blocks of life, your little
amino acids. You know.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I always like I'm a dietitian's worst arme because I'm
a vegetarian that hates most protein powder, hate it, hate it.
I try like most protein.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But it is really important if you want colagen induction treatments,
like whatever the treatment is, whether it's like a device
or an inclinic treatment or a skin care. It can
only do what you kind of allowing your body to do, so.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You need to.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I think you're the first person that's actually convinced me
feel for the skin. I'm always power for the skin.
I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Like people will be like, oh, don't you have no energy?
I'm like no, I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Fine, yeah, but now like my skin, my skin, it's important.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Let me have my protein.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
What trends are you seeing in this type of treatment?
So are people asking for it or you sort of
telling people about it? Because that's the thing where it's
like no one can really talk about these things, so
is it word of mouth? And are a lot of
different age groups coming in?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
So this is just based on my experience and in
my clinic, I find that the younger patients and my
younger I mean twenty five to thirty five are really
clude on, really clude on right. And fortunately or unfortunately,
there are lots of videos from other countries where they
can talk about these treatments. So they've done their research
a little bit and they come to me and they're like, hey,
(08:45):
I'm thinking about xysor treatment, what do you think? And
we can talk about it, whereas I think thirty five upwards,
it's usually me recommending it based on their concerns. So
I think in terms of the trends, it's hard to say,
because every now and then there's a new device, there's
a new product, and then it gets a bit of
a hype, and look, what may work for you, you
(09:07):
may not work for your friend. Yeah, because it's really
depending on your body and all of these collagen induction treatments.
Your collagen can be stimulated through different pathways.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
And does it also depend on the treatment how often
you would need to go in to see results? Like
are most people seeing you, most of your patients seeing
you a couple of times a year or once a month.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So in terms of like treatments, yes, very rarely would
you just need like a worn off, it's usually at least.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
A course of two to six yes, okay, which is
then good for people to keep in mind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, And also like depending on the treatment modality that
you choose, it comes with a cost unfortunately, so you've
got to make sure that you can kind of follow
the whole course through.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And then have a good skincare routine obviously at home.
On the way through because otherwise eight enough protein.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Let's be clear, none of these collagen stimulators are going
to replace a facelift. What realistic limitations or expectations that
people could have.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Funnily, people who have had facelifts, my patients, they need
a lot more of these treatments.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Really.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, look face, Well they've got less skin.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well maybe that's why it does.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It does nothing for your skin. A facelift does nothing
for you, Like it doesn't it pull it? Okay, let's
look at Christiana right. She has been you know, in
the news quite a lot about how amazing she looked
post her facelift, and then over the last couple of
weeks and was like, oh my god, I've seen updated
photos of that.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
She doesn't look as good.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh yeah, I've missed this update. Yeahs Is it just
that she stopped? Was it less filtered photos? No?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I think it's because.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Obviously, initially when you have a facelift, there's a lot
of inflammation, so your skin is really tight and it
just drops yep. So also, the facelift does nothing for
the actual skin quality. So once that inflammation has dropped,
that skin creepiness can come back in So Unfortunately, collagen
induction treatments target the skin specifically, So anyone who has
(11:10):
had a facelift, they kind of got to continue having
these treatments. And often I find that because they're desperate
for the treatment to look quite natural and in keeping
with the rest of their body as well, then I'm
doing collision induction treatments on their neck, on their deck.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Letage, on their hands.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
On their hands, So it's kind of like never ending.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
What's the strangest place someone's asked for collagen? Knees? Knees? Yeah,
actually that kind of makes sense. Knees can get a
little bit creepy.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, crinkly, Yeah, especially people that play sports and stuff,
and they're quite conscious of it.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Knees, Elbows, I wonder I've always had awful elbows.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, I've not done many elbows, but I've done.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Maybe you'll see me soon some collagen in my elbows place.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But yeah, Unfortunately, like a facelift and these collagen induction
treatments are completely different treatment modalities.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
You can't even you kind of no.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Just because you've had a face lift doesn't mean like
it's the same skin.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
It's the same skin.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Sure, some of it's been chopped off and pulled in
certain places, but it is the same skin, especially like
under the eyes, your neck, the thinner parts of your
face and neck.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
How do collagen stimulating treatments differ from traditional volumizers? And
when I say volumizers, I mean the things that people
were getting that made them look like ducks back.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
In the day, So completely different treatment modalities. Some and
I'm saying like I'm thinking one or two options can
add a little volume in terms of the collagen induction treatments,
but most of them don't add volume, and they cannot
augment your face. So if you're after you know, a
(12:53):
better side profile for example, these treatments can help a
little bit because it will tighten your skin a bit
by having a bit more collagen and elastin, but they
don't do what volumizers do.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
How long until people start seeing results from these sorts
of collagen stimulation treatments.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So the less downtime you get with a treatment, so
the more like natural, low key treatment, the longer it's
going to take for you to see results. Usually you
will see the best results of it. For example, six
to nine months after treatment, I'd got it done for
my wedding, So if you are essentially prepping for a
big event as well, don't expect these treatments just to
(13:33):
do magic overnights. You really really need to plan ahead
for these treatments. But going back on too, like when
people can see the results. If you are having collagen
induction treatments, the older that you are as well, the
harder it's going to be for your body to make
that collagen. So just really manage your expectations. Don't compare
yourself to your friends. Different treatments, different practitioners, different bodies,
(13:55):
but you just do have to give it months after
the treatment to see results, and sometimes you actually forget
what you used to look like.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
So I have patients who.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Come in and like, oh, I don't think I've seen anything.
But then the good news is we take clinical fun
whidos and you can kind of show them look you
turn because you don't see these tiny changes every day
in yourself exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Well, if you're looking yourself every single day when you're
doing your skincare and makeup, and the feel.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Of your skin is really important as well, because remember,
collagen makes skin feel more elastic and plump. Yeah, it's
not just the look of it is the feel as well.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
We've all seen social media horror stories. What red flags
should people watch out for when choosing a practitioner.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think Australia is a little bit better than other countries.
Like in the UK, you can have a beautian with
very minimal experience performing quite high risk treatments for example,
and Australia it's doctors and nurses only. However, there are
some beauticians that can perform some of these energy based
(14:52):
devices and needling treatments as well.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
But they're not allowed to go to depths that absolutely yeah,
So they.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Do have their limitations, and with limitations comes like results variations.
The one thing I would say is that you you
have to be able to manage complications. That's the most
important part. So if you are going to someone doesn't
matter how many years they've been doing this for, do
they manage their own complications or do they have to
(15:21):
give you to a doctor to manage your complications?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right? So how would you figure that out? Though?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So most nurses would have to have a prescribing doctor
to prescribe medication to manage complications. So if you did
go to, for example, a nurse and I've got lots
of great nursing colleagues who are very good at doing this,
but there will need a doctor to manage any complications
that comes.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yes, okay in terms.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Of prescription, unless there are a prescribing nurse, which there's
not many of them in Australia based on training. So
it's really important to be really confident in your practitioner.
You know, complications do happen. These treatments have got risks,
everyone does, so you just go to go to someone
that can manage you in terms of your treatments. You
(16:06):
have to care.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Word of mouth is always really good, absolutely, Like I
don't ask people that you trust or whose face you like,
and I always say, look at the practitioner's face because
it's subjective of course of what you think is beautiful, and.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Beauty is objective and subjective exactly definitely.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
But so if your practitioner has got way too much
or like you like, I think just it's a good
sort of guide of if you've both got the sort
of same. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
A lot of patients say that.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Who is the ideal candidate for collagen stimulation?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
So the ideal candidate, I would say, is probably someone
in their thirties, Am I a N because you're on
the you know, you're still getting your menstruation cycle, You've
still got your estrogen. Esigen is directly linked to making
more collagen. So the younger that you are, the more
likely you are to make collagen because you've got the
issues on your side. So in your thirties, I would
(17:04):
say is a really good age because you're starting to
see the science aaging a little bit, and your body
is still capable of making the collagen. Whereas if you
are you know, postmenopause or paramenopause, your body will need
a lot more treatments to make the same amount of collagen.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
If you could ban one beauty trend or treatment myth
from TikTok, what would it be?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Can I have two?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Absolutely, beef tallow Oh my god, please get rid. It's
essentially a natural animal fat, cow fat, cow fat.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
The people are smearing, yeah, all of that face, Yes,
and look at also putting it on them as like
a sunscreen protecting me from the sun. No, No, it's.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Not burning you.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, sizzling, sizzling you like bacon or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It is, beef like a burger. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know where that's come from, but I think
it needs to stop.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Musting as a vegetarian yuck extra Like I'm just like, yeah,
there's so many better evidence based products on the market,
and there are like lots of different brands like, oh,
we're like extra clean and extract.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
You brought it in your kitchen, it's not clean.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
And then evidence it doesn't exist, So let's just go
towards evidence based products. Number two is this like morning
shed oh my, where they like kind of like demonmify
their faces from.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Their whole body. Sometimes they don't have kids. They must
not have kids.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I can't even it.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Must be the world's greatest sleeper, Like I can't sleep
in a comfortable bed with nothing. Yeah, so let alone.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Can you imagine how much time you can, say, read
a book or something.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, you could solve world hunger. You could not. You
shouldn't put that sort of pressure on people. But it's
not doing anything.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And for people that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Don't know, it's when people go to bed with like
a seventeen chin strap, a mouth tape, like forehead wrinkle
like patches.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
With like their hair in a bond it and heatless curls,
which if you can't say.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
You're fine, let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But like this is the adding of all and then
they'll sleep with like a girdle around their middle and
like every everything is just taped and locked into place.
Like what happens if someone breaks into your house, Well
they'd actually run. Actually, it could be really good for
that because it just runs straight out there.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Zero evidence, zerovidence, waste of time.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Everyone's like I looked better. Well, I think that just
putting on your morning skin you're having a cold show,
you'd get the same results.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Honestly, decent retinol in the evening. Yeah, it's gonna sunscreen,
increase your cell turnover sunscreen in the morning.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Maybe out of visive and see if you.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Want, what trends do you see for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I think because of and this is not a negative
thing at all, because of you know, the treatment options
in the.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Weight loss category.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
There are a lot of patients who are losing significant
amounts of weight, which impacts their face as well and
the aging process. And look, the fat pads in our
face is what keeps us looking you for, you know,
like your rosy cheeks and your apples stuff, which is so.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Like I can't deal with the buckle fat removal. The
buckle yeah, the buckle FA and like, do I get
it removed? It will disappear as you get older. Keep
it for youth.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah. I think the buckle fat removal look, I look
good in people who are like say, in their forties
fifties and they're getting the jowls because the buckle fat's
kind of moved down, But in the younger patients they
can look quite gaunt yeah afterwards. So I think volumeization
might make her come back because I can already see
a little bit of a trend in clinic. I think
the skincare is getting more and more innovative with what
(20:42):
we can do at home as well. So I think
better skincare in terms of pigmentation, in terms of collagen
stimulation very likely. I think exosomes as well. If anyone
that doesn't know, exosomes can be topical in your skin care,
or it could be topical in inclinic treatments, which kind
of think about them like little messengers that send signals
(21:03):
to the cells in your body to repair and regenerate.
They can be found in both skincom and in clinic treatments.
They've already been a big hype about them, but I
think there'll be probably more companies coming out with different brands.
Hopefully some really good data as well will come come
about from them as well, because they're fairly new treatments,
so we are still pending really good research behind them
(21:25):
as well, as I'm hoping that will make her a
better come through for more informed decision making for patients.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, we'll have to get you back next year then
so we can talk more about that. See what we've got,
will you, Bierz. I learned so much from that conversation
with doctor Elder. Firstly, I am too poor to have
some of these treatments. Secondly, well I need to be
consuming a lot more protein and then maybe I won't
even need them. So I hope you did too. It's
really refreshing to hear some science behind these treatments and
(21:57):
someone that isn't like she wasn't trying to sell us
anything because she literally can't. Like she was just giving
us the facts. And if you loved this episode, make
sure you're following us on Instagram at ubid podcast, check
out our YouTube channel even on watch this conversation over there,
and subscribe to our beauty newsletter. You'll find everything in
the show notes. Bye.
You're listening to a mum with mea podcast. Makeup is
my therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey, beauty lovers, it's kel here and welcome back to
the formula. Now, before we dive into today's episode, I
need to give you a quick heads up about how
we are going to be talking about the treatments today.
So you'll notice that doctor Yoda and I are using
very general terms things like collagen stimulating treatments and volumeizing,
(00:46):
rather than specific brand names or product names. That is
because brand names and products are really heavily regulated by
the TGA, and it's the only way that we can
have this conversation and stay compliant. But if you go
away and google what these terms mean, you will understand
what we are referring to. So we are doing this
(01:06):
week in try to give you educational content where possible,
while following all the guidelines because no one wants to
get into trouble. This whole conversation is joeneral in nature.
It doesn't take anyone's individual circumstances into account, so please
always speak to a qualified health practitioner before considering any
(01:26):
sort of cosmetic treatment. I've always been honest about treatments
I try, and today we are diving straight into collagen stimulators,
one of the most talked about treatments in esthetics right now,
which I've tried a bunch of them over the past
few years and they're pretty damn good. Today, I'm joined
by doctor Yalder from Epios Cosmetic Clinic to break down
(01:48):
the real science behind these treatments. Doctor Yalder, Welcome to
the formula.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You are such beautiful skill.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
But how all right, doctor Yalder? Can you please I
just said that so seriously, Doctor Yolder, can you please
kick things off for us by explaining what an earth
a collagen stimulator is and how does it work?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Very good question.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
A collagen stimulator is actually an umbrella term. It's a
tome that's been thrown around everywhere, but I think it's
important to kind of discuss what that entails. It could
be as simple as your skin care. Some skincare can
stimulate collagen how well, when use peptides, retinoids, vitamin C.
So there are lots of evidence to suggest that skincare
(02:32):
can stimulate collagen.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Because it's promoting that cell turnover.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Absolutely and also some ingredients can penetrate to the middle
layer of the skin, the dermis, and that's where our fibroblasts,
the cells that are essentially responsible for making our collagen
and elastin live and it can kind of wake them up.
Fibroblasts are really important when it comes to collagen stimulation.
But yeah, so the variety of treatments that falls under
(02:56):
this is quite big.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And for anyone playing along at home, I mean, I'm
sure that most ubis are aware. But if someone is
like that, why why are we looking for more collagen
or why are we trying to stimulate it? We could
use your six month old baby as a good example. Absolutely,
that's perfect skin exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So his skin at the moment is very plump, and
that's because it's perfect as plump is soft, it's constantly
regenerating itself. It's daily, sometimes even hourly. When you're reaching
your twenties and your thirties, your cell turnover is so
slow compared to when you were a baby, and that's
why we get the skin changes. And then also it's
important to note that from your mid twenties, unfortunately, we
(03:35):
lose collagen. It's a downward trajectory. Basically, downward spiral exactly.
And look, it comes with the joy of being a lot.
I don't want to put like a negative onto this.
Aging is a privilege.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
As you get older. Yes, you might not have as
much college, but you actually don't care.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, and also like you've lived life, you've got experiences
instead of it. But yeah, this is why people are
talking about it because as we lose collagen, you essentially
your skin is not as firm as plump and then
those fine lines and wrinkles are more noticeable. So that's
why people are going towards these treatments.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So let's just say that someone is looking for some
sort of a collagen stimulator. Before we get into the
technical stuff, walk me through what the experience would look
like like what does someone actually go through when they
walk into the door to walking back out.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So most of my patients, they will require a consultation
to begin with. If someone is completely new to cosmetic treatments,
I don't really think it's the right thing to do
to treat them on the same day. They're kind of
bombarded with so much information in the consult that they
kind of need a bit of time to go away.
Think about it, Think about whether that's the right treatment
(04:43):
that we've recommended. The pricing's also really important. And also
the other thing is is that because we can't show
our work online in terms of like before and afters,
I kind of find that.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
It's a bit strange.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You can, like the patient can't ask for a portfolio
and you can show them in the room, but it
puts them like on the spot and you kind of like, hey,
do you want me to kind of so do you
want me to come out?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
It's an awful lot of life.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, it's a bit intimidating. They've just met you, they've
seen your work, they've got all of this information, and
it's better for them to go away think about it,
make sure you're the right practitioner for them, make sure
they're happy to spend that money and then come back.
So if a patient walks through the door, depending on
what age they are, we would sit with them, look
at what their concerns are. You can't address all concerns
(05:31):
with all treatments, so kind of prioritizing the concerns based
on their budget coming up the treatment plan. Most of
these treatment plans will have a course like it's not
really a one off making sure that they're happy with
the maintenance program as well, and then if they're happy,
they would book another appointment for the actual treatment, and
then that's really where the relationship starts from. It's a relationship.
I would hate to say that it's you know, you
(05:53):
come and see me once and then you're really happy
for ten years. Unfortunately that doesn't even happen with surgery,
So it's a relationship. I guess that initial consults really
important both for the patient and the practitioner to kind
of make sure that they gel.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, you don't want someone that is going to be
coming to you all the time and winging about every
single thing, and you want a good patient as well.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Sure thing I might and I always talk about.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know, you touched on it's not just a one
off thing that if someone has got some money to
spend and they're thinking about going and getting a facial
treatment or a facial whatnot. I'm always like, just go
and buy one to two really good serums because you're
going to get more benefits out of that than just
like a random one off. It's like going to the
gym once.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, it's for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I kind of talk about it in terms of tears right,
You've got to make sure that your home stuff is
you've got it down to a tee, your skincare, whether
you're on an led lighte, you know, you're you've got
a really good lifestyle in terms of exercising and not
smoking and UV protection and eating enough protein. So you've
got to make sure that that's kind of at least
(06:56):
like vaguely healthy.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And then rather than someone that uses soap no sunscreen, yeah,
like like the smokes a pack and then they're like, yeah,
please help.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Exactly exactly, And I think just touching up on that
as well.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
In terms of collagen production.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Your body cannot make collisen from thin air, Like your
body's making that collagen.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
So you have to fuel it.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So you've got to have enough protein and take is
that why we have protein? Well, you need protein because
of just like the building blocks of life, your little
amino acids. You know.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I always like I'm a dietitian's worst arme because I'm
a vegetarian that hates most protein powder, hate it, hate it.
I try like most protein.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
But it is really important if you want colagen induction treatments,
like whatever the treatment is, whether it's like a device
or an inclinic treatment or a skin care. It can
only do what you kind of allowing your body to do, so.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You need to.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I think you're the first person that's actually convinced me
feel for the skin. I'm always power for the skin.
I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Like people will be like, oh, don't you have no energy?
I'm like no, I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Fine, yeah, but now like my skin, my skin, it's important.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Let me have my protein.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
What trends are you seeing in this type of treatment?
So are people asking for it or you sort of
telling people about it? Because that's the thing where it's
like no one can really talk about these things, so
is it word of mouth? And are a lot of
different age groups coming in?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
So this is just based on my experience and in
my clinic, I find that the younger patients and my
younger I mean twenty five to thirty five are really
clude on, really clude on right. And fortunately or unfortunately,
there are lots of videos from other countries where they
can talk about these treatments. So they've done their research
a little bit and they come to me and they're like, hey,
(08:45):
I'm thinking about xysor treatment, what do you think? And
we can talk about it, whereas I think thirty five upwards,
it's usually me recommending it based on their concerns. So
I think in terms of the trends, it's hard to say,
because every now and then there's a new device, there's
a new product, and then it gets a bit of
a hype, and look, what may work for you, you
(09:07):
may not work for your friend. Yeah, because it's really
depending on your body and all of these collagen induction treatments.
Your collagen can be stimulated through different pathways.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
And does it also depend on the treatment how often
you would need to go in to see results? Like
are most people seeing you, most of your patients seeing
you a couple of times a year or once a month.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So in terms of like treatments, yes, very rarely would
you just need like a worn off, it's usually at least.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
A course of two to six yes, okay, which is
then good for people to keep in mind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, And also like depending on the treatment modality that
you choose, it comes with a cost unfortunately, so you've
got to make sure that you can kind of follow
the whole course through.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And then have a good skincare routine obviously at home.
On the way through because otherwise eight enough protein.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Let's be clear, none of these collagen stimulators are going
to replace a facelift. What realistic limitations or expectations that
people could have.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Funnily, people who have had facelifts, my patients, they need
a lot more of these treatments.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Really.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, look face, Well they've got less skin.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well maybe that's why it does.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It does nothing for your skin. A facelift does nothing
for you, Like it doesn't it pull it? Okay, let's
look at Christiana right. She has been you know, in
the news quite a lot about how amazing she looked
post her facelift, and then over the last couple of
weeks and was like, oh my god, I've seen updated
photos of that.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
She doesn't look as good.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh yeah, I've missed this update. Yeahs Is it just
that she stopped? Was it less filtered photos? No?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I think it's because.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Obviously, initially when you have a facelift, there's a lot
of inflammation, so your skin is really tight and it
just drops yep. So also, the facelift does nothing for
the actual skin quality. So once that inflammation has dropped,
that skin creepiness can come back in So Unfortunately, collagen
induction treatments target the skin specifically, So anyone who has
(11:10):
had a facelift, they kind of got to continue having
these treatments. And often I find that because they're desperate
for the treatment to look quite natural and in keeping
with the rest of their body as well, then I'm
doing collision induction treatments on their neck, on their deck.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Letage, on their hands.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
On their hands, So it's kind of like never ending.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
What's the strangest place someone's asked for collagen? Knees? Knees? Yeah,
actually that kind of makes sense. Knees can get a
little bit creepy.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, crinkly, Yeah, especially people that play sports and stuff,
and they're quite conscious of it.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Knees, Elbows, I wonder I've always had awful elbows.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, I've not done many elbows, but I've done.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Maybe you'll see me soon some collagen in my elbows place.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But yeah, Unfortunately, like a facelift and these collagen induction
treatments are completely different treatment modalities.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
You can't even you kind of no.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Just because you've had a face lift doesn't mean like
it's the same skin.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
It's the same skin.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Sure, some of it's been chopped off and pulled in
certain places, but it is the same skin, especially like
under the eyes, your neck, the thinner parts of your
face and neck.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
How do collagen stimulating treatments differ from traditional volumizers? And
when I say volumizers, I mean the things that people
were getting that made them look like ducks back.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
In the day, So completely different treatment modalities. Some and
I'm saying like I'm thinking one or two options can
add a little volume in terms of the collagen induction treatments,
but most of them don't add volume, and they cannot
augment your face. So if you're after you know, a
(12:53):
better side profile for example, these treatments can help a
little bit because it will tighten your skin a bit
by having a bit more collagen and elastin, but they
don't do what volumizers do.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
How long until people start seeing results from these sorts
of collagen stimulation treatments.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So the less downtime you get with a treatment, so
the more like natural, low key treatment, the longer it's
going to take for you to see results. Usually you
will see the best results of it. For example, six
to nine months after treatment, I'd got it done for
my wedding, So if you are essentially prepping for a
big event as well, don't expect these treatments just to
(13:33):
do magic overnights. You really really need to plan ahead
for these treatments. But going back on too, like when
people can see the results. If you are having collagen
induction treatments, the older that you are as well, the
harder it's going to be for your body to make
that collagen. So just really manage your expectations. Don't compare
yourself to your friends. Different treatments, different practitioners, different bodies,
(13:55):
but you just do have to give it months after
the treatment to see results, and sometimes you actually forget
what you used to look like.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
So I have patients who.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Come in and like, oh, I don't think I've seen anything.
But then the good news is we take clinical fun
whidos and you can kind of show them look you
turn because you don't see these tiny changes every day
in yourself exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Well, if you're looking yourself every single day when you're
doing your skincare and makeup, and the feel.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Of your skin is really important as well, because remember,
collagen makes skin feel more elastic and plump. Yeah, it's
not just the look of it is the feel as well.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
We've all seen social media horror stories. What red flags
should people watch out for when choosing a practitioner.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I think Australia is a little bit better than other countries.
Like in the UK, you can have a beautian with
very minimal experience performing quite high risk treatments for example,
and Australia it's doctors and nurses only. However, there are
some beauticians that can perform some of these energy based
(14:52):
devices and needling treatments as well.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
But they're not allowed to go to depths that absolutely yeah,
So they.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Do have their limitations, and with limitations comes like results variations.
The one thing I would say is that you you
have to be able to manage complications. That's the most
important part. So if you are going to someone doesn't
matter how many years they've been doing this for, do
they manage their own complications or do they have to
(15:21):
give you to a doctor to manage your complications?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right? So how would you figure that out? Though?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So most nurses would have to have a prescribing doctor
to prescribe medication to manage complications. So if you did
go to, for example, a nurse and I've got lots
of great nursing colleagues who are very good at doing this,
but there will need a doctor to manage any complications
that comes.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yes, okay in terms.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Of prescription, unless there are a prescribing nurse, which there's
not many of them in Australia based on training. So
it's really important to be really confident in your practitioner.
You know, complications do happen. These treatments have got risks,
everyone does, so you just go to go to someone
that can manage you in terms of your treatments. You
(16:06):
have to care.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Word of mouth is always really good, absolutely, Like I
don't ask people that you trust or whose face you like,
and I always say, look at the practitioner's face because
it's subjective of course of what you think is beautiful, and.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Beauty is objective and subjective exactly definitely.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
But so if your practitioner has got way too much
or like you like, I think just it's a good
sort of guide of if you've both got the sort
of same. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
A lot of patients say that.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Who is the ideal candidate for collagen stimulation?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
So the ideal candidate, I would say, is probably someone
in their thirties, Am I a N because you're on
the you know, you're still getting your menstruation cycle, You've
still got your estrogen. Esigen is directly linked to making
more collagen. So the younger that you are, the more
likely you are to make collagen because you've got the
issues on your side. So in your thirties, I would
(17:04):
say is a really good age because you're starting to
see the science aaging a little bit, and your body
is still capable of making the collagen. Whereas if you
are you know, postmenopause or paramenopause, your body will need
a lot more treatments to make the same amount of collagen.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
If you could ban one beauty trend or treatment myth
from TikTok, what would it be?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Can I have two?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Absolutely, beef tallow Oh my god, please get rid. It's
essentially a natural animal fat, cow fat, cow fat.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
The people are smearing, yeah, all of that face, Yes,
and look at also putting it on them as like
a sunscreen protecting me from the sun. No, No, it's.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Not burning you.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, sizzling, sizzling you like bacon or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
It is, beef like a burger. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know where that's come from, but I think
it needs to stop.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Musting as a vegetarian yuck extra Like I'm just like, yeah,
there's so many better evidence based products on the market,
and there are like lots of different brands like, oh,
we're like extra clean and extract.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
You brought it in your kitchen, it's not clean.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
And then evidence it doesn't exist, So let's just go
towards evidence based products. Number two is this like morning
shed oh my, where they like kind of like demonmify
their faces from.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Their whole body. Sometimes they don't have kids. They must
not have kids.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I can't even it.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Must be the world's greatest sleeper, Like I can't sleep
in a comfortable bed with nothing. Yeah, so let alone.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Can you imagine how much time you can, say, read
a book or something.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, you could solve world hunger. You could not. You
shouldn't put that sort of pressure on people. But it's
not doing anything.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And for people that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Don't know, it's when people go to bed with like
a seventeen chin strap, a mouth tape, like forehead wrinkle
like patches.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
With like their hair in a bond it and heatless curls,
which if you can't say.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
You're fine, let's keep going.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But like this is the adding of all and then
they'll sleep with like a girdle around their middle and
like every everything is just taped and locked into place.
Like what happens if someone breaks into your house, Well
they'd actually run. Actually, it could be really good for
that because it just runs straight out there.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Zero evidence, zerovidence, waste of time.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Everyone's like I looked better. Well, I think that just
putting on your morning skin you're having a cold show,
you'd get the same results.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Honestly, decent retinol in the evening. Yeah, it's gonna sunscreen,
increase your cell turnover sunscreen in the morning.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Maybe out of visive and see if you.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Want, what trends do you see for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I think because of and this is not a negative
thing at all, because of you know, the treatment options
in the.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Weight loss category.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
There are a lot of patients who are losing significant
amounts of weight, which impacts their face as well and
the aging process. And look, the fat pads in our
face is what keeps us looking you for, you know,
like your rosy cheeks and your apples stuff, which is so.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Like I can't deal with the buckle fat removal. The
buckle yeah, the buckle FA and like, do I get
it removed? It will disappear as you get older. Keep
it for youth.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah. I think the buckle fat removal look, I look
good in people who are like say, in their forties
fifties and they're getting the jowls because the buckle fat's
kind of moved down, But in the younger patients they
can look quite gaunt yeah afterwards. So I think volumeization
might make her come back because I can already see
a little bit of a trend in clinic. I think
the skincare is getting more and more innovative with what
(20:42):
we can do at home as well. So I think
better skincare in terms of pigmentation, in terms of collagen
stimulation very likely. I think exosomes as well. If anyone
that doesn't know, exosomes can be topical in your skin care,
or it could be topical in inclinic treatments, which kind
of think about them like little messengers that send signals
(21:03):
to the cells in your body to repair and regenerate.
They can be found in both skincom and in clinic treatments.
They've already been a big hype about them, but I
think there'll be probably more companies coming out with different brands.
Hopefully some really good data as well will come come
about from them as well, because they're fairly new treatments,
so we are still pending really good research behind them
(21:25):
as well, as I'm hoping that will make her a
better come through for more informed decision making for patients.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Well, we'll have to get you back next year then
so we can talk more about that. See what we've got,
will you, Bierz. I learned so much from that conversation
with doctor Elder. Firstly, I am too poor to have
some of these treatments. Secondly, well I need to be
consuming a lot more protein and then maybe I won't
even need them. So I hope you did too. It's
really refreshing to hear some science behind these treatments and
(21:57):
someone that isn't like she wasn't trying to sell us
anything because she literally can't. Like she was just giving
us the facts. And if you loved this episode, make
sure you're following us on Instagram at ubid podcast, check
out our YouTube channel even on watch this conversation over there,
and subscribe to our beauty newsletter. You'll find everything in
the show notes. Bye.
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