October 20, 2025 • 35 mins
She's the beauty journalist turned skincare founder who survived one of the biggest cancel culture storms in beauty history. This week on The Formula, Susan Yara is revealing how she went from reviewing products to creating Naturium - one of the most talked-about skincare brands in the industry, built on the philosophy of "biocompatible" formulations that actually work with your skin.
We're getting the full story behind the controversial launch that led to an 18-month FTC investigation, how she bounced back stronger than ever, and the recent acquisition by ELF Beauty. Susan is sharing the biggest overpriced scams in the beauty aisle, why she thinks strength training is as important as skincare after 35, and her top 5 Naturium products that she swears by. Get ready for some serious insider knowledge.
PRODUCTS MENTIONED:
Naturium Vitamin C Complex $39
Naturium Multi Peptide Advanced Serum $47
Naturium Barrier Bounce Serum $45
Naturium Skin Renewing Retinol Body Lotion $49
Naturium KP Body Scrub & Mask $36
Naturium Niacinamide Cleansing Gelée 3% $34
CE Ferulic Vitamin C Serum (SkinCeuticals) $258
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CREDITS:
Hosts: Kelly McCarren
Guest: Susan Yara
Producer: Sophie Campbell
Audio Producer: Tegan Sadler
Video Producer: Artemi Kokkaris
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on Makeup is My Therapy. I'm obsessed and
I don't even feel guilty of body. Hello and welcome
to the formula. I'm Kelly McCarron, and today I'm chatting
(00:33):
with the one and only Susan Yarra, founder of Notorium
and someone with two decades I think over two decades
of industry experience. You are such beautiful skill. But how
let's get straight into talking about beauty though. So welcome Susan,
(00:53):
As I've already gleefully said, I'm just so excited. And
the ubis are going to like when I tell you
that this is probably going to be their favorite episode. Yeah,
they're going to be just so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
No pressure, no pressure, pressure. But with the ubi's that
you call them newbies, by the way.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Isn't it cute?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So cute?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I think they didn't like it, like people here didn't
like it to begin with. But I was like, guys,
it's fun to have like a little bit of a nickname.
I reckon, Yeah, you had a decade as a beauty journalist,
which gave you incredible inside a goss that other brand
founders or people that are sort of thinking about getting
into the industry that be obsessed to the kill for it.
(01:33):
Did you always plan on using your time reviewing as
market research? And what happened when you decided to create Noturium? Like,
can you walk us through that process?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, you know, I never intended to create a brand
because the thought of creating a brand seem like torture
to me. Right there are already plenty of brands on
the market. It's a lot of work. It's a lot
of work. The chances of it actually succeeding are really
slim since there are so many brands out there. I mean,
we see so many celebrity and influencer brands that don't
make it right. And so it never was an intention.
(02:05):
I always thought, I just want to be I truly
started as a news journalist and then eventually made my
way into beauty and it was from there that you know,
it started to click for me a lot. And you know,
it's funny every time I meet, like yesterday, we did
a media day with press and so this is like
the traditional beauty editors and stuff, and we always laugh
because it's the same story. I'm sure you've experienced this too.
(02:26):
It's like you meet a founder and they say, you know,
I created this because this didn't exist in the market,
but we've been pitched this same concept a thousand times,
like well, like I was just told that yesterday by
another brand founder that was to the market, you know.
So I didn't want to follow that kind of a path.
It was to me it was really important to educate.
When I started as a YouTuber, right, I had really
(02:47):
start to focus in on cosmetic treatments towards the very
end of being a beauty editor, and I was at
a magazine called New Beauty Magazine, and there we were
really focused on plastic surgery and in office treatments and skincare, right,
And that's where it clicked for me that there were
a lot of people that didn't know what was available
to them that celebrities were always doing. So that was
a big driving force for me when it came to
(03:09):
starting my utibe tube channel. Is I really wanted people
to know what options they had because back then you
couldn't even get a celebrity to admit they had botox.
Right now we have facelifts being admitted left and right
from people like Chris Jenner.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Still a lot of people are very sacretive, aren't they.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, we have no idea what Jaylo's ever done besides
olive oil.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Olive oil exactly. Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So it was never the intention to start a beauty brand.
It was always to educate people and really give them
the information they needed so they can make some informed decisions.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
And what moment though, did you go, oh, I kind
of need to do this or I want to do this.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It was probably midway through the channel. The channel is
a little over I want to say, it's like twelve
years old now, and it was probably midway through. We
were about at like six hundred thousand subscribers at the time.
It really started to click when I started skincare reaction videos,
because I had been educating on skincare and cosmetic treatments
for a few years at that point, but there was
(04:01):
something about these skincare reaction videos where it started to
click for everyone on how they should be using their
skincare products. And it dawned on me. It was because
there was this like education portion of it, and then
there was an entertainment portion of it, and every celebrity
that I was reviewing, they were doing a lot of
the same mistakes and using the same types of products,
and so people were starting to see like, Okay, this
(04:22):
is making sense to me now. And once that really
started to happen, then people started saying to me, well,
why don't you start a brand. So when I started
looking at the market, when I have all the analytics
from my own YouTube channel and social media, I can
see what price point people are spending, what retailers they're
shopping at, what types of products they're gravitating towards, what
kinds of ingredients they're interested in, what skin issues they have, right,
(04:43):
So I started looking at that a little bit. But
then I started looking at the existing brands on the market,
and what really stood out to me was that we
didn't need another beauty brand or another skincare brand, but
what we could use was another brand that fixes all
these little tiny issues that we complain about all the time.
So every product that we've created for Anitarium, they're really
thoughtfully formulated. We say that they're biocompatible, meaning that they
(05:06):
are compatible with your skin. Right, your skin recognizes the ingredients.
We use technology like encapsulation, but we use pH levels
that are a little bit more comfortable for your skin.
And actually an editor asked me this yesterday. She's like,
if that's the case, then why don't all brands formulate
at a pH level that's comfortable for your skin? And
I said to her, well, if you think about like
your classic vitamin C serum, right, like the cephrulic right,
(05:28):
it's an amazing formula, right, But the way that they
formulate it they use they call it free a scorbic acid,
meaning that it's just like floating in the formulation. And
when you do it like that, then it has to
be at a pH level that's acidic. It's not that
they're not considering a person's skin. pH they're considering, well,
they want this to work for your skin exactly. But
(05:48):
then that low pH level that makes it acidic, that
can actually be irritating to people's skin. Right. It's like
we tell everyone all the time, don't exploit your skin
too much, don't overdo it because you'll, you know, ruin
your skin barrier, you'll get irritation. But then we tell
them to slap on a vitamin C every single morning,
and if it's at a low pH level, you're essentially
using an expollion every way. Right, So these are the
(06:08):
things that we start thinking about. Like our Bye Din'tee
complex serum, we use a conjugated ascorbic acid. So what
that means is that it's encapsulated basically with gold and glutathion,
but then it also with the glutathion keeps the ascorbic
acid a little bit more stable, so you're you're getting
a lot more benefit from this ascorbic acid. And because
it's almost living in its own little formula, you know,
like ice Breaker's gum. Yeah, when you'd like chew it,
(06:30):
you feel the little bubbles of flavor burst in your mouth.
It's kind of the same concept. This ascorbic acid is
living in these little bubbles that you can't see or feel,
and then as you manipulate it on your skin, then
it starts to burst. So then we can make this
formula a much more comfortable formula because it's not dependent.
The ascorbic acid isn't dependent on the formula it lives in.
It's living in its own little formula. So then we've
got this second formula where it's hyaluronic acid in it, glycerine,
(06:54):
there's more antioxidant properties, and it feels nice head smell exactly.
I mean the ham smell actually just comes from ferulic acid.
So ferullic acid has that kind of a like a
barbecue kind of sent to it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Hot doggie.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, it's a living you know, hot dog water. But
you're getting a lot of benefits from it. So it's
like it evens that we called our the smell of efficacy.
I like that. Yeah, So that's that's how we think
about all of our products, is how can we make
this a little bit better? You want a flip phone
with your vitamin C strem or do you want the iPhone?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
But I do also think that something has to be
said for you've clearly just this wealth of knowledge, and
if you have a platform, you know, you were saying
that yesterday you were speaking about, oh, like another influencer,
a celebrity launching a brand, there is something to be
said about someone with such a wealth of knowledge that
it would be almost a disservice to yourself not to
(07:49):
and then just let the big like the big umbrella
companies sort of pay you a tiny fee in comparison,
to what they're going to be making back for you
to recommend their product when you don't one hundred percent
know every single thing about that product, why not create
your own.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, you know, for me besides, you know, like being
really thoughtfully formulated when we when we're working on these products.
The other thing that really stood out to me is
when I became a beauty editor, I grew up really poor. Right,
we didn't have a lot, but my mom loves skincare,
She's Korean, and we would kind of just buy whatever
we could, right. I think everyone deserves to love their skin.
When you love your skin, you're your happiest, Your makeup
(08:23):
goes on nicely, you feel good, you know skin. When
you have you know, like acne or anything like melasma,
it can really weigh on you. It can be a
very psychological problem. You start to feel sad about yourself.
You don't have as much self esteem. So when you
love your skin, it doesn't have to be perfect, but
when you feel like it's healthy and it's glowy and
you're proud of it, then you feel your best. Right,
(08:44):
So I think everyone deserves to love their skin and
be able to buy products that they really see some
changes to their skin or they feel like it's efficacious
for their skin. So it has to be at a
price point that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So, being in the beauty industry, we see the margins
on these products, right, we know that they don't have
to cost hundreds of dollars, and a lot of the
time they're expensive because they're spending like fifty percent of
their budget on the packaging, right and not clocketing. So
instead of doing that, we really make sure we are
pricing everything at a price that just makes sense where
you can be consistent with your skin care routine and
(09:15):
feel okay with spending the money on re upping your
skin care routine every month when you need to. And
that occurred to me because when I first became a
beauty editor, I started getting all these beautiful, you know
PR packages, you know, creams that were like hundreds of
dollars and serums that were in a pack that cost
hundreds of dollars exactly in a PR pack that costs
hundreds of dollars, and I didn't have to pay for it.
So I would take it home to my mom, you know,
(09:36):
I'd be like, Mom, I don't love this, you know,
it's this cream is expensive, it's beautiful, And then I'd
come back a couple months later and it would be
sitting untouched on her dresser, and I would ask her,
why why didn't you use this? You're gonna love it,
and she'd say, well, you told me it's expensive, so
I don't want to waste it. And I feel like
it doesn't even matter what what you know, income level
you're at. Everyone feels this way. You spend hundreds of
(09:58):
dollars and sometimes thousands of dollars on your skin care routine,
you're much more precious with it. We wait, there's actually
a term for it in the industry. It's called vanity products. Right.
These are products that sit a little more untouched on
your vanity because you don't want to waste them. You
spent so much money on it. But then, guess what,
You're not consistent. You're not and they go off in
you're just not using them, right, And so there's no
(10:20):
point in some ways of having that. I love a
boogie product, I love clothing, and I love having a
bougie moment, right, but when it comes to your daily
skincartine where you want to see some change with your skin,
you have to be able to spend an amount of
money that makes.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Sense to you and that you're going to reach for
those products every single.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Day, every day to routain them exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So let's dive right into the launch. You were a
trusted voice and not just through your decade as a
beauty journalist, but across all of the social media platforms
like at Mixed Makeup and the beauty community has grown up.
I loved that. And then you're accused of a breach
of trust of not disclosing your role with a Nutreum,
(11:00):
which I think is like a lot of people do
things like this.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, you know, actually it was more of a like
a miscommunication and I'm such a stubborn person. Yeah, this
is like start of lockdown. I actually was working on
a completely different brand and because of this lockdown, I
was working with a contract manufacturer in Korea. They were
the first to get hit with COVID, right of course,
so they send me this strange email, like I thought
there was a zombie apocalypse coming because they're like, we've
(11:24):
been working with you, we know, for like the last
six eight months on launching this brand with you, but
we have to put a stop to all new clients.
They didn't ask me for money and not think. They
were just like, we have to stop. If you want
hand sanitizer, we can do that with you. And at
first I'm like, this is like February twenty twenty. Yeah,
so I'm kind of like, what is going on here,
you know? And it really showed me that I had
(11:45):
a lot of audacity thinking I could bootstrap a brand
by myself, because all that time and money I'd put
into it was just gone with one email. So I
started reaching out to everybody I knew in the industry,
and one of those people was my former business partner,
Ben Bennett of The Center, which is an incubator for
a lot of brands that we know and love. Right now,
he had launched Atorium already. He was like a soft launch,
and I said to him, how are you getting these
(12:06):
beautiful formulas at such such a sharp price point? It
really was fantastic to see because even for my own
brand that I was working on, it was I was
never going to be able to charge these kinds of prices.
It was going to have to be a little bit
more expensive because I just didn't have the ability to
order as much.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Master Yeah, which people don't realize that, like, how does Kima,
which is a very cheap Australian rayteller, charge five dollars
for a creame because they're not ordering high quality ingredients
and they're ordering millions and millions of units at a time.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
That's how Yeah, So I was really just reaching out
to him to see how he was doing this and
also if he could maybe help me because I didn't
have a contract manufacturer. And that's probably one of the
hardest things when you're trying to start a beauty brand
is to find a contract manufacturer that will take you seriously,
because if you think about it, they're getting people reaching
out all the time saying that they want to start
a beauty brand, but how do they They have to
discern who's going to be worth their time and right,
(12:55):
so we start chatting and you know, like we're in lockdown.
Suddenly everyone thinks we're only going to be in lockdown
for like two weeks and then.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And then it's like, you know, this bit of a
novelty thing. Yeah, people are dancing to Caro Baskin on
the internet.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Are happening, right, and he at some point like we're
now like a month into lockdown, and I say to him,
you know, would you want to work with me on
my brand? And he says, this is such a strange
time and it's a terrible time to start a brand.
At the time, it was right, we hadn't hit this
boom of e calm yet in you know, like in
the lockdown, And so he was like, instead of working
on two separate brands, why don't we work on this
(13:30):
one brand together. It's a baby brand. You've already given
me so much perspective on how you would want this
brand to look like, what you would want it to
look like. Why don't we just work on this together?
That would make more sense. So I had already spoken
about the brand because it wasn't my brand online, right,
and so, you know, like I stopped talking about it
because then we go into like legal discussions and everything.
At some point, things were getting really weird online. It
(13:52):
was like the strangest mindset I'd ever seen online, where
people were getting canceledleft or right.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
People wanted to be cranky at someone.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, there was a lot going on, and one thing
led to another, and it was like, and this is
where the stubbornness in me comes in. So I definitely
have a part to play in this, you know, where
people started kind of like digging into like, well, what
is it that Susan's done wrong in her past? And
I'm a pretty squeaky clean person online, so I think
it almost was frustrating to people trying to find anything
on there, yeah, because I've been on I'd been online
(14:21):
for years, you know, like You're never going to find
anything on my Twitter or anything, like, I just don't
have anything.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right I ALWAYO think like I've often thought about this,
and I'm like, there probably would be something out there
that I would have done or said, But I'm not
the same person that I was ten years ago, and
it would be weird if everyone was.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, but even at that, they still didn't find anything
on me. Right, But then I can't even remember what
it was. What was it? I was so close to
we were about to we had like made this like
agreement finally, our our lawyers were just waiting for them
to send us our final agreements, and we were going
to be signing on the diet line. And I was
a co owner, co founder of Naurium, right. So this
is like two and a half months later, and I
(15:00):
have not spoken about the brand online again since we're
in these negotiations. And then there's this little there was
this thing that started happening on social media, a trend
where it was called the Pullupper, shut Up challenge, and
it was where they were asking beauty brands to post
online how many people of color they had in their
executive leadership. Right, And so my business partner Ben sends
(15:20):
me a text and he's like, you know, he's like,
you and I are not white, like, and we might
as well. He's like, we're getting some DMS. He's like,
we might as well post a little something vague. You're
about to sign this contract, so like we'll just post
something vague, right, Like, it wasn't signed completely, so he
didn't want to put our names or anything. So he
posts on the social media he says, you know, the
two founders are Asian and Asian Hispanic. And then he
(15:42):
had a few employees already working for him, and I
remember this post goes up and I looked at it.
I was like, yeah, Asian Hispanic is very specific, like
in the skincare industry. And he goes, well, if anyone
puts together that that's you, that means that they like
love you, right, they they're like really paying attention. I
was like, I guess that's true, Like we'll be able
to explain the whole thing of how this came about.
And then immediately, like two hours later, it's like Reddit
(16:02):
post and it's like conspiracy theories. Susan Yara is the
owner of Notarium and has not disclosed this, and she's
been like lying to us this whole time. Nine yes,
and it completely blew up. But because I'm such a
stubborn person, I didn't give the story the background. I
was like, this is none of your business. So and
you know, like in hindsight, it actually even people on
my team like Anna, She was like, I don't feel
(16:24):
good about you not telling the story. You might as
well just tell the story. And I was like no,
they're exactly like this is so rude of them to
be like trying a little bit like.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
That sometimes, Like I'm just like fuck you at home,
like stupid little keyboard. She can't be trusted?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Why, Yeah, Like what did I do to you? Nothing?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, you're just bored and cranky at home. I'm trying
to find someone to.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Blame, yeah, exactly. So this turned into I'm like really
summarizing the story. There was so much more that went
into it, and that turned into a much bigger story
than I ever expected it to be. I get a
call suddenly from the FTC, which is, you know, the
government branch that handles you know, all of this kind
of stuff like any online advertising and stuff, and they're like,
we have never received so many complaints about an influence
(17:09):
or before. So I had to go into like a
year and a half long investigation to show them that
I had not been committed on anythod. Yeah, and because
of that investigation started, I actually couldn't say anything about
it online. So my chance to actually explain what happened
got shut down because now we were in an investigation.
And of course at the very end of that investigation
(17:30):
they come back and they're like, yeah, there's nothing to
see here. And when I tell you it's an investigation,
it's very very intense, Like you have to hand over
every form of communication you've ever had with anybody involved
with the brand. So like even your most private conversations, right,
Like you could be talking about like your like intimate
life and all that stuff with your friend, but if
that person was slightly involved with the brand. Then you're
(17:51):
handing over everything. You cannot erase any of these messages.
You're not, you know, blocking everything off or anything. They
want to see, every form of communication and any legal things,
all of it to be able to make sure that
you were not committing fraud.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
But then a ten month's lada when they finally go, yeah,
you actually did absolutely nothing. Everyone's moved on. They canceling
someone else exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So at that and you're just like, hello, yeah, it's like, well,
I guess any I'm going to apologize anyone. No, And
I actually did try to explain it, and then you
it's and it turns out you get the same thing
over and over again. It's like people go back and
listen to the things that you've said and they're like
trying to catch your lies and stuff, and you know,
you'd realize you just can't win, so there's no point
in continuing to try to explain it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But
when you were being slammed by peers in the industry
and people that you know had been looking up to
you for so long, what's the one thing you kept
telling yourself so that you could continue on and keep
working on the brand or did you sometimes think, oh,
I'm going to lose all of this that I've worked on.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
You know, there was a moment where I, like for
about two or three days where I was just getting
hit left and right with all these I mean, people
are crazy when they're upset with you people.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And people are cruel. Don't forget that it's a real person.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
On the other end, there's almost like extremes. And I
tried to explain this to some people. It's like, yes,
there are like the normal people who think that they're
like they're really just trying to like correct things and
they just want what's right. They're like they're a little
bit self righteous people, you know. But then there are
the crazies who see this and they latch onto it
and they take it to an extreme level. Right, they
might not even know who you are, but they're like, yes,
we're going to cancel this person. And then it's like
(19:24):
you deserve to die because people were passing away right
when it was COVID, right, so they're like it should
be you who dies like that kind of thing, or
your children should be taken away, and.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
You're rating this just sitting and I'm a very normal
pus and just like.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
What I'm like with a six month old at home
at oh, tired and breastfeeding and like trying to figure out,
like I'm also in lockdown, and you know, and like
people assume because you're a content creator, you must have
a legal team and a PR team and all this
sudden we're just like sitting there like this is so crazy.
There was like a few days where I just like
shut everything down. I was like, this might be over
cried a few days. But then I when I logged
(19:58):
back in, I started to realize what I was noticing
was what I was paying attention to. Where a bunch
of people that were negative, who probably didn't even know
who I was, never followed me in the first place,
besides like a handful, Right, But there's like this also
also this group of people who are just latching onto
some kind of a conspiracy theory that they don't like. Right,
But then the majority of the people are actually sending
(20:19):
really loving, carrying supportive messages. Right, even if they were upset,
they were like I don't know exactly what happened, but
you have taught me so much about skincare. You have
been part of my life for the last few years
you as a mom, Like, I've been part of that
journey too, because I was also a mom at the
same time. And you start to realize that you've got
this very supportive community and they're stronger than the negative voices,
(20:39):
right exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It's just it's easiest at the time to focus on
the cranky one percent that are yelling the loudest.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
What people don't realize is that content creators and influences
because of the parasocial relationship. But they're not celebrities. They
don't have big teams around them protecting them. So when
they jump online, they see everything and it's not normal
or natural for anyone to read what thousands of people
(21:11):
think about them and trying to cancel them and telling
them that they wish that they would die. Yeah, Like,
it's not Oh no, it.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Definitely weighs on you. And honestly, it did change my
relationship with social media, right, Like, my excitement for being
online definitely slowed shifted.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, which makes sense.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But I'm back, But you're back, baby, But I'm back.
I got over it.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Moving on from all of that nonsense, The brand not
only survived but it has gone on to thrive. Do
you think that any part of that crazy launch sort
of became a weak kind of marketing.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Blitz, do you? Yeah? And I have to give it
also to the Center team, right, they were very supportive, like,
you know, an investor, could you know see all this
this pulling on and pull And that was actually my
biggest worry at the time was that then Bennett in
the Center, We're going to be like, yeah, this is
too risky for us. You're too big of a risk
for us to be working with. But instead they went
(22:11):
stronger with me, They like locked hands with me, and
we went harder. We were like, we're going to show
everybody this is going to be the best brand that
we ever create.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And as you were touching on earlier, the Terium is
very famous for pouring money into the formula rather than
I mean, your packaging is really nice, though it's not like.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It yeah, but you know, it's very it's not very
custom like a lot of brands will customize a lot
of the true.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes, and I guess like it's not. It doesn't come
in like a box with I don't know, flowers on it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, Yeah, those little portions. There are some things that
we customize, like our caps that say urium, but that's
a very simple customization exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, what is the biggest overpriced scam in the beauty aisle?
Like if you're just walking up and down that you
are as an insider, are just like, oh my goodness,
this has got to end. I've got to just debunk
it for the audience.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean, I think for me it's seeing I think
now that people are understanding ingredients a little bit more,
they understand this a little bit more. But you know,
when you're looking at some of these really basic ingredientshyaluronic acid, serum,
mineral oil, petrolotum, these are called commodity ingredients, meaning that
you get these at the cheapest level possible because they're
so abundant. Right, They're not bad ingredients. These are great ingredients.
(23:21):
They do exactly what they're supposed to do, but they
don't cost a lot, right compared to newer ingredients that
are put out in the market. Right, So when you
see a brand that's based around you know, they're hyaluronic
acid that's in every single serum, or you know, an
ingredient that's not it's just not doing the most it's
not doing the heavy lifting. Then you're kind of like,
why would you spend hundreds of dollars on this? Right?
(23:43):
And it bothers me to see people spending hundreds of
dollars because they're just they're just sold on this marketing story.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Because someone told them too, or yeah, somebody told.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Them to marketing story. You've seen celebrities using it, and
the celebrities aren't spending any money on this, they're getting
it for free. So people are just being convinced, right.
I even tell people, you know, like just because a
brand has a patent on this, like ingredient technology or something,
that doesn't necessarily mean it does anything. That's just part
of the marketing, right. Yeah. So it's like, you know,
(24:13):
I think that it's really important to be discerning when
you're spending this amount of money.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And I think consumers are getting so much more savvy, yeah,
for sure, with how we shop and want to learn
and educate ourselves about beauty.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And so it's really it's not about like I'm not
telling people they shouldn't buy the products, right, It's more
like just be aware of what you're buying.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
You recently had an acquisition by ELF? Is it L
for E L L L.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, it's confusing because they do have like they do
have the dots. It's the dots, but it's because it
stands for eyes lips faced.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Oh that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But they go by ELF and they use LF a lot,
like they they have elphisms is what they call it.
So they'll be like, like what the ELF?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
You know, like, yeah, all cute, very cute. That is
a huge sleigh. Yeah, thank you, congratulations. What were they
able to bring to the table that you you're a
very successful founder, but you simply could not just achieve
on your own.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Well, I think what people don't realize is if you're
an indie brand, you're always gonna have cash flow issue. Right.
It's really hard to get cash because you're I think
people who are freelancers and contractors understand this. You might
not get paid for something for months, but you still
have to continue working.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And you still have to produce the amount to produce.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
The products, pay people, pay your contractors, like you have
to have cash, right, So there's like this there's this
give and take that's happening with your business. And if
you're a business, that's like really growing fast. That weighs
on you even harder because it's even harder to keep
up right, to manage that flow. And so that was
one of our big things was that it becomes continuously
(25:44):
stressful to do that. It's not that we couldn't do it,
but it is. It's stressful, and you have to figure
out how to get cash.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Two, when you're joining with a big company like Elf
that already has a lot of distribution and power, I
guess behind their name, you're getting economies of scale. So
like now we can place you know, orders that are
a little bit bigger, but they're already placing massive orders
with this one company or something, So now we're getting
a better deal as a whole. Right, They've got the
inn when it comes to you know, like talking to
(26:10):
the Sephora team, right, like they trust that if Elf
is behind us, this brand is going to be a
good brand to work with, and not like an indie
brand where there's going to be these ups and downs
because you know, an indie brand is still struggling a
little bit, right, So when you've got a big company
like Elf behind you, you can do so much more.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So you managed to successfully transition from a full time
creator to a very very wildly successful founda. What is
the one unglamorous but essential piece of advice you have
for any content creator listening to this right now, who
thinks maybe I should launch a brand?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
You know, I think what content creators don't realize I
see this right now happening all the time, is that
they think they're content creators first. And I understand that sentiment.
They want to be loyal to their community. They want
to make sure their communities feel like they're still serving
them with their content. But at some point you have
to choose, right, like, are you going to be focusing
(27:03):
on your content or your bread and butter?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Right?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And your bread and butter should be that business that
you're creating, and that business. Yeah, sure, you're content. It
relies a little bit on your content, for sure. But
when you become a founder and you're trying to build
a true brand, you have to give it your all,
just like you did when you start at your social media. Right.
It is a business, but this is going to be
a harder business to try to run because there's so
many more logistics that are going on behind it. When
(27:26):
you're a content creator, it is hard. It's an amazing
privileged position to be in, right, because you get to
do something that you love and make lots of money
doing it right if you're successful at it. But the
difference is you're focusing on yourself right. When you are
starting a brand, you are not focusing on yourself anymore.
It's not about you, it's about your employees, it's about
the customer, it's about the products, it's about you know,
(27:48):
the business operations that are happening. And so you really
have to shift that focus. And you can't be a
content creator first, you know. And also you shouldn't be
launching a brand that's focused on something you've never talked
about or sold on your own channel. It still blows
my mind when I talk to content creators and they're like,
I've been thinking about starting a brand, and it's like, oh, really,
have you talked about skincare before? Have you talked about
alcohol before?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Or whatever it is?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
They're like no, It's like, well, then what makes you
think that you should be selling them?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, or that you're going to do better than the
wildly successful brands that are out there in that Niche.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Exactly, Yeah, Like what are you bringing to the table.
That's different.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I have so many favorite nuturian products my brand. I
want to know what your favorite five. And I know
that this probably changes all the time, and it's like
trying to You're asking me to choose favorite child children,
But in this very moment, what would be your top five?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I actually do have some favorite children, so do I.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I mean, it's not my brand, but so do I.
Barry Bounce in all time. It was one of my
top products from last year across the entire market. It
is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah. I love Barrier Bounds as well. It's a really
unique formula. Yeah, it's a reversal emulsion, meaning that it
actually starts with oil as the beast instead of water
as a beast.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So I think that's why I love it so much,
because I'm so dry.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yes, yeah, And the thing with like a pure oil
is that it really just kind of sits on the
surface of your skin. But when you create it like this,
it's more of a moisturizer, so then you do get
some hydration and some penetration of the skin, so it
feels a lot more nourishing for your skin than a
pure oil. My top top top Holy Grail product is
our Multipeptide Advanced Serum. I think there's nothing on the
(29:32):
market like it. It's this beautiful, milky kind of texture.
It has encapsulated copper peptides in it, which makes the
copper peptides a little bit more stable because they are antioxidants.
It also means that you don't have to worry about
what they're interacting with. Use it as much as you want, morning, nighttime,
with what other products, with other ingredients, you're not going
to have a negative interaction at all. And that's actually
(29:53):
the case with all of our serums. People ask, can
I use your retinol in the daytime? Sure, go for it.
It's encapsulated. You don't have to think too hard about it.
Use our serums. But I love the Multipeptide Advanced Serum.
It does have a little bit of a barbecue smell
because we do have encapsulated through like acid in it,
which is it's very slight because it's encapsulated, so you
get it at first, but then it dissipates. So that's
one of my all time favorites. I love the entire
(30:15):
multipeptide collection.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
The cream.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
The cream is amazing, right.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I have gotten so many people onto that what is
in it that makes you.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Glow, it's actually not prelescent. What it is is that
we are using ingredients that are superhumanctants. Essentially, it's beautiful.
Peptides are humactants. That's like what I tell people when
they're confused about peptides. At the very least, they're going
to hydrate your skin and plump it up. But it's
also the way that we created the texture of it
starts off feeling really rich and thick, yes, but then
as you rub it, it has this beautiful water break
(30:42):
and it feels light suddenly. So it's all about the
way it was formulated that gives you that prelescent look
to your skin. That's one of my top ones as well,
but I wouldn't say it's in my top five. If
I have to choose five, I don't know yet. That's okay,
But the serum, the serrum is absolutely in the top five.
Our new milkytner, which is not here yet but hopefully
if it g you know, I always tell people this,
if you want a product here, tell the retailer that
(31:02):
this is what you want, because that helps them understand
what the customer is looking for as well. We have
a newer milky toner. It's part of our Multibrite collection.
Is really hydrating and nourishing for the skin. It feels
very light, but it also has ingredients like azalic acid.
It's an azalic acid derivative, which really helps with so
many different skin issues. It can help with visible redness,
it can help to balance your oil production, if you
(31:23):
have clogg pores. It very slightly exfoliates your skin. It
can help with evening your skin tone. So it's doing
a lot more than just your typical milky tone or
that hydrates. It's actually helping with a lot of these
skin issues. And it's so easy to use. I have
it on right now. I love it. We have a
retinal body lotion that is incredible. Yeah, well, I'll have
to give you some. I'll have to get you some.
(31:43):
I would also say that I love our Niosinomide cleansing Gela.
It's to me, I feel like people really underestimate their
cleansing step. Right. I'm all about a double cleanse. But
if I have to choose of the five, the cleansing
Gela is my favorite of our cleansers, and that's because
it really cleanses your skin well, but it doesn't strip
your skin, so then you have really nice, fresh, clean
skin as you go into your skin caroutine, and the
(32:04):
skincare routine gets to do what it's supposed to do
instead of trying to balance your skin back out right,
And I'd say, geez, what would be lucky?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Number five?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Probably our KP Body Scrub is also in my top
five because it travels with me everywhere. It's an expoliant
of physical expoliant. It's the only physical expoliant that we
have that has, you know, like this true like a
graininess to it. It also has ah's in it, like
glycolic acid, and it exfoliates your skin so well. It
feels creamy. You get that physical expoliation on your body,
(32:33):
which feels it feels good. If you're not rough with
your skin, you just like really use it nicely. It
can make your skin feel like dolphin skin. Oh my god,
I actually feel.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Feel oh oh my goodness, yes, and I feel like
a dry Desser's. So that beautiful.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
We're going to make sure that changes.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Finally, after so many years trialing beauty products and treatments,
what are some other products and treatments you love or
that are essential to your routine.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, okay, so I think that cosmetic treatments. I say
this all the time. Just because I have a skincare brand.
It doesn't mean that I rely solely on skincare, absolutely,
you know, like I really believe there's a power in
choosing the right in office treatments or even plastic surgery
if you need it, if you feel like you need
it right, nobody ever needs it needs it, and then
combining that with your at home skin care team to
maintain everything that you've been doing for your skin. Right.
(33:22):
If I'm not trying to look like I'm in my twenties,
I want to look like a better version of myself
in my forties.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
That's it exactly, you know, Like I've had enough sleepe,
That's exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
It, really, And I'm not angry all the time, you know,
not thinking so hard. The other thing that I think
is really important for people is especially for women as
we're aging, you hit thirty five, start strength training. I
love my pilates. I love, you know, any other kinds
of workouts, especially the group ones where I get to
be with my girlfriends and we make it a date, right,
But those are complementary to your strength training. We need
(33:53):
to strength train, and we need it for our health,
for the way we look. It's going to it's just
going to be really beneficial for you. You know, like
it's working on your metabolism, so you are actually losing
weight if that's what you want to achieve, but you're
also feeling strong, you know. I think that's really important
for people. I think women don't take that as seriously.
We're all about doing something like plarates more and it's
(34:14):
so important to start strength training. And when I say
strength training, I mean like go heavy on your wits,
work up to you know, like be a badass in
the gym.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, go work make someone like make a big buff dude,
go like she really lifting.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
It's it's and you feel really accomplished afterwards.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Well, thank you so much, Susan. I could literally pick
your brain all day. You know everything about everything. This
is my job. But thank you, and think just we're
so excited to have you here to play with the
products in store now.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me and
happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Whoa, I am just even more blown away by Susan
than I was prior and I'm sure everyone is too,
and yay that we can now go into Sophora to
properly play with the products and figure out what our
fabs are. Follow us on TikTok and Instagram, at you
Beauty Pod or at you Beauty Podcast, Subscribe to our
newsletter and we'll be back in You is an guyes
(35:10):
next week. Bye, mm hmmm mm hmmmm mm hmmm
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Hm
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on Makeup is My Therapy. I'm obsessed and
I don't even feel guilty of body. Hello and welcome
to the formula. I'm Kelly McCarron, and today I'm chatting
(00:33):
with the one and only Susan Yarra, founder of Notorium
and someone with two decades I think over two decades
of industry experience. You are such beautiful skill. But how
let's get straight into talking about beauty though. So welcome Susan,
(00:53):
As I've already gleefully said, I'm just so excited. And
the ubis are going to like when I tell you
that this is probably going to be their favorite episode. Yeah,
they're going to be just so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
No pressure, no pressure, pressure. But with the ubi's that
you call them newbies, by the way.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Isn't it cute?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So cute?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I think they didn't like it, like people here didn't
like it to begin with. But I was like, guys,
it's fun to have like a little bit of a nickname.
I reckon, Yeah, you had a decade as a beauty journalist,
which gave you incredible inside a goss that other brand
founders or people that are sort of thinking about getting
into the industry that be obsessed to the kill for it.
(01:33):
Did you always plan on using your time reviewing as
market research? And what happened when you decided to create Noturium? Like,
can you walk us through that process?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, you know, I never intended to create a brand
because the thought of creating a brand seem like torture
to me. Right there are already plenty of brands on
the market. It's a lot of work. It's a lot
of work. The chances of it actually succeeding are really
slim since there are so many brands out there. I mean,
we see so many celebrity and influencer brands that don't
make it right. And so it never was an intention.
(02:05):
I always thought, I just want to be I truly
started as a news journalist and then eventually made my
way into beauty and it was from there that you know,
it started to click for me a lot. And you know,
it's funny every time I meet, like yesterday, we did
a media day with press and so this is like
the traditional beauty editors and stuff, and we always laugh
because it's the same story. I'm sure you've experienced this too.
(02:26):
It's like you meet a founder and they say, you know,
I created this because this didn't exist in the market,
but we've been pitched this same concept a thousand times,
like well, like I was just told that yesterday by
another brand founder that was to the market, you know.
So I didn't want to follow that kind of a path.
It was to me it was really important to educate.
When I started as a YouTuber, right, I had really
(02:47):
start to focus in on cosmetic treatments towards the very
end of being a beauty editor, and I was at
a magazine called New Beauty Magazine, and there we were
really focused on plastic surgery and in office treatments and skincare, right,
And that's where it clicked for me that there were
a lot of people that didn't know what was available
to them that celebrities were always doing. So that was
a big driving force for me when it came to
(03:09):
starting my utibe tube channel. Is I really wanted people
to know what options they had because back then you
couldn't even get a celebrity to admit they had botox.
Right now we have facelifts being admitted left and right
from people like Chris Jenner.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Still a lot of people are very sacretive, aren't they.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, we have no idea what Jaylo's ever done besides
olive oil.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Olive oil exactly. Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So it was never the intention to start a beauty brand.
It was always to educate people and really give them
the information they needed so they can make some informed decisions.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
And what moment though, did you go, oh, I kind
of need to do this or I want to do this.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It was probably midway through the channel. The channel is
a little over I want to say, it's like twelve
years old now, and it was probably midway through. We
were about at like six hundred thousand subscribers at the time.
It really started to click when I started skincare reaction videos,
because I had been educating on skincare and cosmetic treatments
for a few years at that point, but there was
(04:01):
something about these skincare reaction videos where it started to
click for everyone on how they should be using their
skincare products. And it dawned on me. It was because
there was this like education portion of it, and then
there was an entertainment portion of it, and every celebrity
that I was reviewing, they were doing a lot of
the same mistakes and using the same types of products,
and so people were starting to see like, Okay, this
(04:22):
is making sense to me now. And once that really
started to happen, then people started saying to me, well,
why don't you start a brand. So when I started
looking at the market, when I have all the analytics
from my own YouTube channel and social media, I can
see what price point people are spending, what retailers they're
shopping at, what types of products they're gravitating towards, what
kinds of ingredients they're interested in, what skin issues they have, right,
(04:43):
So I started looking at that a little bit. But
then I started looking at the existing brands on the market,
and what really stood out to me was that we
didn't need another beauty brand or another skincare brand, but
what we could use was another brand that fixes all
these little tiny issues that we complain about all the time.
So every product that we've created for Anitarium, they're really
thoughtfully formulated. We say that they're biocompatible, meaning that they
(05:06):
are compatible with your skin. Right, your skin recognizes the ingredients.
We use technology like encapsulation, but we use pH levels
that are a little bit more comfortable for your skin.
And actually an editor asked me this yesterday. She's like,
if that's the case, then why don't all brands formulate
at a pH level that's comfortable for your skin? And
I said to her, well, if you think about like
your classic vitamin C serum, right, like the cephrulic right,
(05:28):
it's an amazing formula, right, But the way that they
formulate it they use they call it free a scorbic acid,
meaning that it's just like floating in the formulation. And
when you do it like that, then it has to
be at a pH level that's acidic. It's not that
they're not considering a person's skin. pH they're considering, well,
they want this to work for your skin exactly. But
(05:48):
then that low pH level that makes it acidic, that
can actually be irritating to people's skin. Right. It's like
we tell everyone all the time, don't exploit your skin
too much, don't overdo it because you'll, you know, ruin
your skin barrier, you'll get irritation. But then we tell
them to slap on a vitamin C every single morning,
and if it's at a low pH level, you're essentially
using an expollion every way. Right, So these are the
(06:08):
things that we start thinking about. Like our Bye Din'tee
complex serum, we use a conjugated ascorbic acid. So what
that means is that it's encapsulated basically with gold and glutathion,
but then it also with the glutathion keeps the ascorbic
acid a little bit more stable, so you're you're getting
a lot more benefit from this ascorbic acid. And because
it's almost living in its own little formula, you know,
like ice Breaker's gum. Yeah, when you'd like chew it,
(06:30):
you feel the little bubbles of flavor burst in your mouth.
It's kind of the same concept. This ascorbic acid is
living in these little bubbles that you can't see or feel,
and then as you manipulate it on your skin, then
it starts to burst. So then we can make this
formula a much more comfortable formula because it's not dependent.
The ascorbic acid isn't dependent on the formula it lives in.
It's living in its own little formula. So then we've
got this second formula where it's hyaluronic acid in it, glycerine,
(06:54):
there's more antioxidant properties, and it feels nice head smell exactly.
I mean the ham smell actually just comes from ferulic acid.
So ferullic acid has that kind of a like a
barbecue kind of sent to it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Hot doggie.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, it's a living you know, hot dog water. But
you're getting a lot of benefits from it. So it's
like it evens that we called our the smell of efficacy.
I like that. Yeah, So that's that's how we think
about all of our products, is how can we make
this a little bit better? You want a flip phone
with your vitamin C strem or do you want the iPhone?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
But I do also think that something has to be
said for you've clearly just this wealth of knowledge, and
if you have a platform, you know, you were saying
that yesterday you were speaking about, oh, like another influencer,
a celebrity launching a brand, there is something to be
said about someone with such a wealth of knowledge that
it would be almost a disservice to yourself not to
(07:49):
and then just let the big like the big umbrella
companies sort of pay you a tiny fee in comparison,
to what they're going to be making back for you
to recommend their product when you don't one hundred percent
know every single thing about that product, why not create
your own.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, you know, for me besides, you know, like being
really thoughtfully formulated when we when we're working on these products.
The other thing that really stood out to me is
when I became a beauty editor, I grew up really poor. Right,
we didn't have a lot, but my mom loves skincare,
She's Korean, and we would kind of just buy whatever
we could, right. I think everyone deserves to love their skin.
When you love your skin, you're your happiest, Your makeup
(08:23):
goes on nicely, you feel good, you know skin. When
you have you know, like acne or anything like melasma,
it can really weigh on you. It can be a
very psychological problem. You start to feel sad about yourself.
You don't have as much self esteem. So when you
love your skin, it doesn't have to be perfect, but
when you feel like it's healthy and it's glowy and
you're proud of it, then you feel your best. Right,
(08:44):
So I think everyone deserves to love their skin and
be able to buy products that they really see some
changes to their skin or they feel like it's efficacious
for their skin. So it has to be at a
price point that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So, being in the beauty industry, we see the margins
on these products, right, we know that they don't have
to cost hundreds of dollars, and a lot of the
time they're expensive because they're spending like fifty percent of
their budget on the packaging, right and not clocketing. So
instead of doing that, we really make sure we are
pricing everything at a price that just makes sense where
you can be consistent with your skin care routine and
(09:15):
feel okay with spending the money on re upping your
skin care routine every month when you need to. And
that occurred to me because when I first became a
beauty editor, I started getting all these beautiful, you know
PR packages, you know, creams that were like hundreds of
dollars and serums that were in a pack that cost
hundreds of dollars exactly in a PR pack that costs
hundreds of dollars, and I didn't have to pay for it.
So I would take it home to my mom, you know,
(09:36):
I'd be like, Mom, I don't love this, you know,
it's this cream is expensive, it's beautiful, And then I'd
come back a couple months later and it would be
sitting untouched on her dresser, and I would ask her,
why why didn't you use this? You're gonna love it,
and she'd say, well, you told me it's expensive, so
I don't want to waste it. And I feel like
it doesn't even matter what what you know, income level
you're at. Everyone feels this way. You spend hundreds of
(09:58):
dollars and sometimes thousands of dollars on your skin care routine,
you're much more precious with it. We wait, there's actually
a term for it in the industry. It's called vanity products. Right.
These are products that sit a little more untouched on
your vanity because you don't want to waste them. You
spent so much money on it. But then, guess what,
You're not consistent. You're not and they go off in
you're just not using them, right, And so there's no
(10:20):
point in some ways of having that. I love a
boogie product, I love clothing, and I love having a
bougie moment, right, but when it comes to your daily
skincartine where you want to see some change with your skin,
you have to be able to spend an amount of
money that makes.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Sense to you and that you're going to reach for
those products every single.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Day, every day to routain them exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So let's dive right into the launch. You were a
trusted voice and not just through your decade as a
beauty journalist, but across all of the social media platforms
like at Mixed Makeup and the beauty community has grown up.
I loved that. And then you're accused of a breach
of trust of not disclosing your role with a Nutreum,
(11:00):
which I think is like a lot of people do
things like this.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, you know, actually it was more of a like
a miscommunication and I'm such a stubborn person. Yeah, this
is like start of lockdown. I actually was working on
a completely different brand and because of this lockdown, I
was working with a contract manufacturer in Korea. They were
the first to get hit with COVID, right of course,
so they send me this strange email, like I thought
there was a zombie apocalypse coming because they're like, we've
(11:24):
been working with you, we know, for like the last
six eight months on launching this brand with you, but
we have to put a stop to all new clients.
They didn't ask me for money and not think. They
were just like, we have to stop. If you want
hand sanitizer, we can do that with you. And at
first I'm like, this is like February twenty twenty. Yeah,
so I'm kind of like, what is going on here,
you know? And it really showed me that I had
(11:45):
a lot of audacity thinking I could bootstrap a brand
by myself, because all that time and money I'd put
into it was just gone with one email. So I
started reaching out to everybody I knew in the industry,
and one of those people was my former business partner,
Ben Bennett of The Center, which is an incubator for
a lot of brands that we know and love. Right now,
he had launched Atorium already. He was like a soft launch,
and I said to him, how are you getting these
(12:06):
beautiful formulas at such such a sharp price point? It
really was fantastic to see because even for my own
brand that I was working on, it was I was
never going to be able to charge these kinds of prices.
It was going to have to be a little bit
more expensive because I just didn't have the ability to
order as much.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Master Yeah, which people don't realize that, like, how does Kima,
which is a very cheap Australian rayteller, charge five dollars
for a creame because they're not ordering high quality ingredients
and they're ordering millions and millions of units at a time.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
That's how Yeah, So I was really just reaching out
to him to see how he was doing this and
also if he could maybe help me because I didn't
have a contract manufacturer. And that's probably one of the
hardest things when you're trying to start a beauty brand
is to find a contract manufacturer that will take you seriously,
because if you think about it, they're getting people reaching
out all the time saying that they want to start
a beauty brand, but how do they They have to
discern who's going to be worth their time and right,
(12:55):
so we start chatting and you know, like we're in lockdown.
Suddenly everyone thinks we're only going to be in lockdown
for like two weeks and then.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
And then it's like, you know, this bit of a
novelty thing. Yeah, people are dancing to Caro Baskin on
the internet.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Are happening, right, and he at some point like we're
now like a month into lockdown, and I say to him,
you know, would you want to work with me on
my brand? And he says, this is such a strange
time and it's a terrible time to start a brand.
At the time, it was right, we hadn't hit this
boom of e calm yet in you know, like in
the lockdown, And so he was like, instead of working
on two separate brands, why don't we work on this
(13:30):
one brand together. It's a baby brand. You've already given
me so much perspective on how you would want this
brand to look like, what you would want it to
look like. Why don't we just work on this together?
That would make more sense. So I had already spoken
about the brand because it wasn't my brand online, right,
and so, you know, like I stopped talking about it
because then we go into like legal discussions and everything.
At some point, things were getting really weird online. It
(13:52):
was like the strangest mindset I'd ever seen online, where
people were getting canceledleft or right.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
People wanted to be cranky at someone.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, there was a lot going on, and one thing
led to another, and it was like, and this is
where the stubbornness in me comes in. So I definitely
have a part to play in this, you know, where
people started kind of like digging into like, well, what
is it that Susan's done wrong in her past? And
I'm a pretty squeaky clean person online, so I think
it almost was frustrating to people trying to find anything
on there, yeah, because I've been on I'd been online
(14:21):
for years, you know, like You're never going to find
anything on my Twitter or anything, like, I just don't
have anything.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right I ALWAYO think like I've often thought about this,
and I'm like, there probably would be something out there
that I would have done or said, But I'm not
the same person that I was ten years ago, and
it would be weird if everyone was.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, but even at that, they still didn't find anything
on me. Right, But then I can't even remember what
it was. What was it? I was so close to
we were about to we had like made this like
agreement finally, our our lawyers were just waiting for them
to send us our final agreements, and we were going
to be signing on the diet line. And I was
a co owner, co founder of Naurium, right. So this
is like two and a half months later, and I
(15:00):
have not spoken about the brand online again since we're
in these negotiations. And then there's this little there was
this thing that started happening on social media, a trend
where it was called the Pullupper, shut Up challenge, and
it was where they were asking beauty brands to post
online how many people of color they had in their
executive leadership. Right, And so my business partner Ben sends
(15:20):
me a text and he's like, you know, he's like,
you and I are not white, like, and we might
as well. He's like, we're getting some DMS. He's like,
we might as well post a little something vague. You're
about to sign this contract, so like we'll just post
something vague, right, Like, it wasn't signed completely, so he
didn't want to put our names or anything. So he
posts on the social media he says, you know, the
two founders are Asian and Asian Hispanic. And then he
(15:42):
had a few employees already working for him, and I
remember this post goes up and I looked at it.
I was like, yeah, Asian Hispanic is very specific, like
in the skincare industry. And he goes, well, if anyone
puts together that that's you, that means that they like
love you, right, they they're like really paying attention. I
was like, I guess that's true, Like we'll be able
to explain the whole thing of how this came about.
And then immediately, like two hours later, it's like Reddit
(16:02):
post and it's like conspiracy theories. Susan Yara is the
owner of Notarium and has not disclosed this, and she's
been like lying to us this whole time. Nine yes,
and it completely blew up. But because I'm such a
stubborn person, I didn't give the story the background. I
was like, this is none of your business. So and
you know, like in hindsight, it actually even people on
my team like Anna, She was like, I don't feel
(16:24):
good about you not telling the story. You might as
well just tell the story. And I was like no,
they're exactly like this is so rude of them to
be like trying a little bit like.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
That sometimes, Like I'm just like fuck you at home,
like stupid little keyboard. She can't be trusted?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Why, Yeah, Like what did I do to you? Nothing?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, you're just bored and cranky at home. I'm trying
to find someone to.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Blame, yeah, exactly. So this turned into I'm like really
summarizing the story. There was so much more that went
into it, and that turned into a much bigger story
than I ever expected it to be. I get a
call suddenly from the FTC, which is, you know, the
government branch that handles you know, all of this kind
of stuff like any online advertising and stuff, and they're like,
we have never received so many complaints about an influence
(17:09):
or before. So I had to go into like a
year and a half long investigation to show them that
I had not been committed on anythod. Yeah, and because
of that investigation started, I actually couldn't say anything about
it online. So my chance to actually explain what happened
got shut down because now we were in an investigation.
And of course at the very end of that investigation
(17:30):
they come back and they're like, yeah, there's nothing to
see here. And when I tell you it's an investigation,
it's very very intense, Like you have to hand over
every form of communication you've ever had with anybody involved
with the brand. So like even your most private conversations, right,
Like you could be talking about like your like intimate
life and all that stuff with your friend, but if
that person was slightly involved with the brand. Then you're
(17:51):
handing over everything. You cannot erase any of these messages.
You're not, you know, blocking everything off or anything. They
want to see, every form of communication and any legal things,
all of it to be able to make sure that
you were not committing fraud.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
But then a ten month's lada when they finally go, yeah,
you actually did absolutely nothing. Everyone's moved on. They canceling
someone else exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So at that and you're just like, hello, yeah, it's like, well,
I guess any I'm going to apologize anyone. No, And
I actually did try to explain it, and then you
it's and it turns out you get the same thing
over and over again. It's like people go back and
listen to the things that you've said and they're like
trying to catch your lies and stuff, and you know,
you'd realize you just can't win, so there's no point
in continuing to try to explain it.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But
when you were being slammed by peers in the industry
and people that you know had been looking up to
you for so long, what's the one thing you kept
telling yourself so that you could continue on and keep
working on the brand or did you sometimes think, oh,
I'm going to lose all of this that I've worked on.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
You know, there was a moment where I, like for
about two or three days where I was just getting
hit left and right with all these I mean, people
are crazy when they're upset with you people.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And people are cruel. Don't forget that it's a real person.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
On the other end, there's almost like extremes. And I
tried to explain this to some people. It's like, yes,
there are like the normal people who think that they're
like they're really just trying to like correct things and
they just want what's right. They're like they're a little
bit self righteous people, you know. But then there are
the crazies who see this and they latch onto it
and they take it to an extreme level. Right, they
might not even know who you are, but they're like, yes,
we're going to cancel this person. And then it's like
(19:24):
you deserve to die because people were passing away right
when it was COVID, right, so they're like it should
be you who dies like that kind of thing, or
your children should be taken away, and.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
You're rating this just sitting and I'm a very normal
pus and just like.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
What I'm like with a six month old at home
at oh, tired and breastfeeding and like trying to figure out,
like I'm also in lockdown, and you know, and like
people assume because you're a content creator, you must have
a legal team and a PR team and all this
sudden we're just like sitting there like this is so crazy.
There was like a few days where I just like
shut everything down. I was like, this might be over
cried a few days. But then I when I logged
(19:58):
back in, I started to realize what I was noticing
was what I was paying attention to. Where a bunch
of people that were negative, who probably didn't even know
who I was, never followed me in the first place,
besides like a handful, Right, But there's like this also
also this group of people who are just latching onto
some kind of a conspiracy theory that they don't like. Right,
But then the majority of the people are actually sending
(20:19):
really loving, carrying supportive messages. Right, even if they were upset,
they were like I don't know exactly what happened, but
you have taught me so much about skincare. You have
been part of my life for the last few years
you as a mom, Like, I've been part of that
journey too, because I was also a mom at the
same time. And you start to realize that you've got
this very supportive community and they're stronger than the negative voices,
(20:39):
right exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It's just it's easiest at the time to focus on
the cranky one percent that are yelling the loudest.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
What people don't realize is that content creators and influences
because of the parasocial relationship. But they're not celebrities. They
don't have big teams around them protecting them. So when
they jump online, they see everything and it's not normal
or natural for anyone to read what thousands of people
(21:11):
think about them and trying to cancel them and telling
them that they wish that they would die. Yeah, Like,
it's not Oh no, it.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Definitely weighs on you. And honestly, it did change my
relationship with social media, right, Like, my excitement for being
online definitely slowed shifted.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, which makes sense.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But I'm back, But you're back, baby, But I'm back.
I got over it.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Moving on from all of that nonsense, The brand not
only survived but it has gone on to thrive. Do
you think that any part of that crazy launch sort
of became a weak kind of marketing.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Blitz, do you? Yeah? And I have to give it
also to the Center team, right, they were very supportive, like,
you know, an investor, could you know see all this
this pulling on and pull And that was actually my
biggest worry at the time was that then Bennett in
the Center, We're going to be like, yeah, this is
too risky for us. You're too big of a risk
for us to be working with. But instead they went
(22:11):
stronger with me, They like locked hands with me, and
we went harder. We were like, we're going to show
everybody this is going to be the best brand that
we ever create.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And as you were touching on earlier, the Terium is
very famous for pouring money into the formula rather than
I mean, your packaging is really nice, though it's not like.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It yeah, but you know, it's very it's not very
custom like a lot of brands will customize a lot
of the true.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes, and I guess like it's not. It doesn't come
in like a box with I don't know, flowers on it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, Yeah, those little portions. There are some things that
we customize, like our caps that say urium, but that's
a very simple customization exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, what is the biggest overpriced scam in the beauty aisle?
Like if you're just walking up and down that you
are as an insider, are just like, oh my goodness,
this has got to end. I've got to just debunk
it for the audience.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean, I think for me it's seeing I think
now that people are understanding ingredients a little bit more,
they understand this a little bit more. But you know,
when you're looking at some of these really basic ingredientshyaluronic acid, serum,
mineral oil, petrolotum, these are called commodity ingredients, meaning that
you get these at the cheapest level possible because they're
so abundant. Right, They're not bad ingredients. These are great ingredients.
(23:21):
They do exactly what they're supposed to do, but they
don't cost a lot, right compared to newer ingredients that
are put out in the market. Right, So when you
see a brand that's based around you know, they're hyaluronic
acid that's in every single serum, or you know, an
ingredient that's not it's just not doing the most it's
not doing the heavy lifting. Then you're kind of like,
why would you spend hundreds of dollars on this? Right?
(23:43):
And it bothers me to see people spending hundreds of
dollars because they're just they're just sold on this marketing story.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Because someone told them too, or yeah, somebody told.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Them to marketing story. You've seen celebrities using it, and
the celebrities aren't spending any money on this, they're getting
it for free. So people are just being convinced, right.
I even tell people, you know, like just because a
brand has a patent on this, like ingredient technology or something,
that doesn't necessarily mean it does anything. That's just part
of the marketing, right. Yeah. So it's like, you know,
(24:13):
I think that it's really important to be discerning when
you're spending this amount of money.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And I think consumers are getting so much more savvy, yeah,
for sure, with how we shop and want to learn
and educate ourselves about beauty.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And so it's really it's not about like I'm not
telling people they shouldn't buy the products, right, It's more
like just be aware of what you're buying.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
You recently had an acquisition by ELF? Is it L
for E L L L.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, it's confusing because they do have like they do
have the dots. It's the dots, but it's because it
stands for eyes lips faced.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Oh that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
But they go by ELF and they use LF a lot,
like they they have elphisms is what they call it.
So they'll be like, like what the ELF?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
You know, like, yeah, all cute, very cute. That is
a huge sleigh. Yeah, thank you, congratulations. What were they
able to bring to the table that you you're a
very successful founder, but you simply could not just achieve
on your own.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Well, I think what people don't realize is if you're
an indie brand, you're always gonna have cash flow issue. Right.
It's really hard to get cash because you're I think
people who are freelancers and contractors understand this. You might
not get paid for something for months, but you still
have to continue working.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And you still have to produce the amount to produce.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
The products, pay people, pay your contractors, like you have
to have cash, right, So there's like this there's this
give and take that's happening with your business. And if
you're a business, that's like really growing fast. That weighs
on you even harder because it's even harder to keep
up right, to manage that flow. And so that was
one of our big things was that it becomes continuously
(25:44):
stressful to do that. It's not that we couldn't do it,
but it is. It's stressful, and you have to figure
out how to get cash.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Two, when you're joining with a big company like Elf
that already has a lot of distribution and power, I
guess behind their name, you're getting economies of scale. So
like now we can place you know, orders that are
a little bit bigger, but they're already placing massive orders
with this one company or something, So now we're getting
a better deal as a whole. Right, They've got the
inn when it comes to you know, like talking to
(26:10):
the Sephora team, right, like they trust that if Elf
is behind us, this brand is going to be a
good brand to work with, and not like an indie
brand where there's going to be these ups and downs
because you know, an indie brand is still struggling a
little bit, right, So when you've got a big company
like Elf behind you, you can do so much more.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So you managed to successfully transition from a full time
creator to a very very wildly successful founda. What is
the one unglamorous but essential piece of advice you have
for any content creator listening to this right now, who
thinks maybe I should launch a brand?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
You know, I think what content creators don't realize I
see this right now happening all the time, is that
they think they're content creators first. And I understand that sentiment.
They want to be loyal to their community. They want
to make sure their communities feel like they're still serving
them with their content. But at some point you have
to choose, right, like, are you going to be focusing
(27:03):
on your content or your bread and butter?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Right?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And your bread and butter should be that business that
you're creating, and that business. Yeah, sure, you're content. It
relies a little bit on your content, for sure. But
when you become a founder and you're trying to build
a true brand, you have to give it your all,
just like you did when you start at your social media. Right.
It is a business, but this is going to be
a harder business to try to run because there's so
many more logistics that are going on behind it. When
(27:26):
you're a content creator, it is hard. It's an amazing
privileged position to be in, right, because you get to
do something that you love and make lots of money
doing it right if you're successful at it. But the
difference is you're focusing on yourself right. When you are
starting a brand, you are not focusing on yourself anymore.
It's not about you, it's about your employees, it's about
the customer, it's about the products, it's about you know,
(27:48):
the business operations that are happening. And so you really
have to shift that focus. And you can't be a
content creator first, you know. And also you shouldn't be
launching a brand that's focused on something you've never talked
about or sold on your own channel. It still blows
my mind when I talk to content creators and they're like,
I've been thinking about starting a brand, and it's like, oh, really,
have you talked about skincare before? Have you talked about
alcohol before?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Or whatever it is?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
They're like no, It's like, well, then what makes you
think that you should be selling them?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, or that you're going to do better than the
wildly successful brands that are out there in that Niche.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Exactly, Yeah, Like what are you bringing to the table.
That's different.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I have so many favorite nuturian products my brand. I
want to know what your favorite five. And I know
that this probably changes all the time, and it's like
trying to You're asking me to choose favorite child children,
But in this very moment, what would be your top five?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I actually do have some favorite children, so do I.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I mean, it's not my brand, but so do I.
Barry Bounce in all time. It was one of my
top products from last year across the entire market. It
is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah. I love Barrier Bounds as well. It's a really
unique formula. Yeah, it's a reversal emulsion, meaning that it
actually starts with oil as the beast instead of water
as a beast.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So I think that's why I love it so much,
because I'm so dry.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yes, yeah, And the thing with like a pure oil
is that it really just kind of sits on the
surface of your skin. But when you create it like this,
it's more of a moisturizer, so then you do get
some hydration and some penetration of the skin, so it
feels a lot more nourishing for your skin than a
pure oil. My top top top Holy Grail product is
our Multipeptide Advanced Serum. I think there's nothing on the
(29:32):
market like it. It's this beautiful, milky kind of texture.
It has encapsulated copper peptides in it, which makes the
copper peptides a little bit more stable because they are antioxidants.
It also means that you don't have to worry about
what they're interacting with. Use it as much as you want, morning, nighttime,
with what other products, with other ingredients, you're not going
to have a negative interaction at all. And that's actually
(29:53):
the case with all of our serums. People ask, can
I use your retinol in the daytime? Sure, go for it.
It's encapsulated. You don't have to think too hard about it.
Use our serums. But I love the Multipeptide Advanced Serum.
It does have a little bit of a barbecue smell
because we do have encapsulated through like acid in it,
which is it's very slight because it's encapsulated, so you
get it at first, but then it dissipates. So that's
one of my all time favorites. I love the entire
(30:15):
multipeptide collection.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
The cream.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
The cream is amazing, right.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I have gotten so many people onto that what is
in it that makes you.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Glow, it's actually not prelescent. What it is is that
we are using ingredients that are superhumanctants. Essentially, it's beautiful.
Peptides are humactants. That's like what I tell people when
they're confused about peptides. At the very least, they're going
to hydrate your skin and plump it up. But it's
also the way that we created the texture of it
starts off feeling really rich and thick, yes, but then
as you rub it, it has this beautiful water break
(30:42):
and it feels light suddenly. So it's all about the
way it was formulated that gives you that prelescent look
to your skin. That's one of my top ones as well,
but I wouldn't say it's in my top five. If
I have to choose five, I don't know yet. That's okay,
But the serum, the serrum is absolutely in the top five.
Our new milkytner, which is not here yet but hopefully
if it g you know, I always tell people this,
if you want a product here, tell the retailer that
(31:02):
this is what you want, because that helps them understand
what the customer is looking for as well. We have
a newer milky toner. It's part of our Multibrite collection.
Is really hydrating and nourishing for the skin. It feels
very light, but it also has ingredients like azalic acid.
It's an azalic acid derivative, which really helps with so
many different skin issues. It can help with visible redness,
it can help to balance your oil production, if you
(31:23):
have clogg pores. It very slightly exfoliates your skin. It
can help with evening your skin tone. So it's doing
a lot more than just your typical milky tone or
that hydrates. It's actually helping with a lot of these
skin issues. And it's so easy to use. I have
it on right now. I love it. We have a
retinal body lotion that is incredible. Yeah, well, I'll have
to give you some. I'll have to get you some.
(31:43):
I would also say that I love our Niosinomide cleansing Gela.
It's to me, I feel like people really underestimate their
cleansing step. Right. I'm all about a double cleanse. But
if I have to choose of the five, the cleansing
Gela is my favorite of our cleansers, and that's because
it really cleanses your skin well, but it doesn't strip
your skin, so then you have really nice, fresh, clean
skin as you go into your skin caroutine, and the
(32:04):
skincare routine gets to do what it's supposed to do
instead of trying to balance your skin back out right,
And I'd say, geez, what would be lucky?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Number five?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Probably our KP Body Scrub is also in my top
five because it travels with me everywhere. It's an expoliant
of physical expoliant. It's the only physical expoliant that we
have that has, you know, like this true like a
graininess to it. It also has ah's in it, like
glycolic acid, and it exfoliates your skin so well. It
feels creamy. You get that physical expoliation on your body,
(32:33):
which feels it feels good. If you're not rough with
your skin, you just like really use it nicely. It
can make your skin feel like dolphin skin. Oh my god,
I actually feel.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Feel oh oh my goodness, yes, and I feel like
a dry Desser's. So that beautiful.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
We're going to make sure that changes.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Finally, after so many years trialing beauty products and treatments,
what are some other products and treatments you love or
that are essential to your routine.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, okay, so I think that cosmetic treatments. I say
this all the time. Just because I have a skincare brand.
It doesn't mean that I rely solely on skincare, absolutely,
you know, like I really believe there's a power in
choosing the right in office treatments or even plastic surgery
if you need it, if you feel like you need
it right, nobody ever needs it needs it, and then
combining that with your at home skin care team to
maintain everything that you've been doing for your skin. Right.
(33:22):
If I'm not trying to look like I'm in my twenties,
I want to look like a better version of myself
in my forties.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
That's it exactly, you know, Like I've had enough sleepe,
That's exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
It, really, And I'm not angry all the time, you know,
not thinking so hard. The other thing that I think
is really important for people is especially for women as
we're aging, you hit thirty five, start strength training. I
love my pilates. I love, you know, any other kinds
of workouts, especially the group ones where I get to
be with my girlfriends and we make it a date, right,
But those are complementary to your strength training. We need
(33:53):
to strength train, and we need it for our health,
for the way we look. It's going to it's just
going to be really beneficial for you. You know, like
it's working on your metabolism, so you are actually losing
weight if that's what you want to achieve, but you're
also feeling strong, you know. I think that's really important
for people. I think women don't take that as seriously.
We're all about doing something like plarates more and it's
(34:14):
so important to start strength training. And when I say
strength training, I mean like go heavy on your wits,
work up to you know, like be a badass in
the gym.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, go work make someone like make a big buff dude,
go like she really lifting.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
It's it's and you feel really accomplished afterwards.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Well, thank you so much, Susan. I could literally pick
your brain all day. You know everything about everything. This
is my job. But thank you, and think just we're
so excited to have you here to play with the
products in store now.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me and
happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Whoa, I am just even more blown away by Susan
than I was prior and I'm sure everyone is too,
and yay that we can now go into Sophora to
properly play with the products and figure out what our
fabs are. Follow us on TikTok and Instagram, at you
Beauty Pod or at you Beauty Podcast, Subscribe to our
newsletter and we'll be back in You is an guyes
(35:10):
next week. Bye, mm hmmm mm hmmmm mm hmmm
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Hm
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