December 20, 2018 • 36 mins
Joshua David Stein and Krishna Andavolu, the former host of "Weediquette" on Viceland, talk about smoking marijuana and the strains that today's kids will be smoking when they've grown into belligerent teenagers. The two dads, vape pens in hand, look to Leafly's David Downs about the bright future of getting high and the dark future of worring about your kids getting high.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to the Fatherly Podcast. My name is Joshua David Stein.
So I'm sitting here with Kristna Volo. Hello, Yeah, we
got it. I'm going to jump right into it. Christian
knows a ton about weed. I know nothing about weed.
This episode is about weed. We're gonna talk to Christian,
who is the host of Viceland's wid Quette, literally the
(00:39):
pre eminent show about weed. And we're also going to
give a call to David Downs, who is the California
editor of Leafley. He is a cannabis journalist. You gotta
always be on call even if there's cannabis use in
your life. And I'm curious about how to incorporate it
into my life as a dad, whether I'm doing the
right thing, how to talk to them about it. Also
(01:01):
the idea that weed was such an act of rebellion
as a kid, And think about it in ten years,
when your kids fourteen and minds, you know whatever, fifteen sixteen,
it'll probably be adult used recreation and normal legal here. Yea,
it won't be at all what it was like for
us growing up. And I'm really curious about what that's
(01:22):
going to look like. Welcome, very foggy podcast. I hope
you are enjoying the show. When you were growing up
and you smoked, what was your relationship to weed? Like
it was bad? Like, you know, I was taught that
(01:44):
weed was bad and that when you smoke it, you
are doing something bad your brain, You're wasting your time,
and you know, you're just kind of associating with those
who you shouldn't just by nature of the chemical. And
you know, my parents are Hindu, very traditional from India, um,
(02:06):
and so it was really it more than just being weed.
It represented kind of the depravity of Western culture. That
makes sense. And so how did they feel when you
became a cannabis journalist. Well, and this is sort of
how the show started. I call my mom. I'm pretty
stoned in a weed growing facility. And I called my
(02:28):
mom and I tell her I've got a new show
and it's about weed. And I thought, I know, it's
really nervous doing this, and this this was like not
this is like the creative director of the channel at
the times, like Jones is idea. I'm sorry, but it was.
It was super fun working with him on the show.
But what I mean to say, it's like it was
the idea of him and another producer named Brendan Fitzgerald,
(02:51):
like call your mom. And the reason that happened was
because we when we made it on the web, I
interviewed the president of Uruguay, which she was the first
country to fully legalize marijuana for adults. So we went
down there. We did like kind of a travel story,
and you know, I met some people and we were
able to score interview with the president and so I
smoked a joint like in his presence, on his property,
(03:14):
and he was like, yeah, totally go for it. But
so I told my parents that are like, hey, journalism
jobs going so great, guys, I like interviewed the president
of a country. She mike on her end, Oh my mom, No,
we just got it through the phone was on speaker phone.
Uh that she didn't know I was gonna call so
and in other case, so I had to do that
(03:34):
call to my parents the day before the Uruguay story
came out because I didn't tell him I smoked weed
on camera. So I had to break to them like, hey,
I'm smoking pot on camera, and that it kind of
devastated them, Like it took a while for us to
kind of get through that, and it was a little
bit of a joke, but also kind of the the
(03:56):
crucible of the show was like, can my mom be
cool with me smoking weed? And that kind of kicked
it all off, And that's the kind of relationship my
dad to boot like as well, do you see legalization
affecting I don't know, like, how do you see it
affecting families? And how do you see it affecting not
on a maybe not on a systemic level, but you
(04:18):
were talking about how it's really about how people interact
with the plant themselves. So how do you see widespread
legalization affecting how dad's behave with their kids? When you're
like a little high, it can be easier to relate
to your child's logic, emotions and otherwise. My biggest problem
(04:40):
with communicating with my kid is scaring him with anger,
with like big adult things. And I think and so
if I like, get if I yell, or if I like,
do you know, get a little tense because something is
like bothering me or something's wrong or did something wrong
like that is the biggest barrier for our communication. So
(05:02):
what I found is from time to time it can
help me sand off those like shitty reactions to little
things like I don't get frustrated, he doesn't get frustrated.
We start like, we call her, we have a great time.
I think I do have this like underlying insecurity that
something terrible is going to happen and I'm gonna be
(05:22):
too high to help them. Sure, but I'd probably be
too enough to help them even if I wasn't high
so well, I mean, one way to help that out
is potentially have your partner around also, so that there's
someone who's there, who who is holding the ball of
responsibility the conscious and then every once in a while
she could be that, you know, you could hold the
(05:43):
ball of responsibility and she could so like there's there's
ways through that feeling. Um, but I would I mean,
I you know, I would say that I think there's
something there. I don't know if it's like real or
imagined in so far as your stone and so you're like,
I'm like having child brain, but you think you're relating
(06:04):
to your kids, Like, okay, so we're gonna talk to
David Downs, who is the California editor for Leafley, which is,
as you might guess, a website covering all things cannabis.
I think you have some pretty good thoughts about the
future of weed. Hey David, Hey Josh, thanks for having me.
Hi Krishna, Hello, so nice to be amongst another head.
(06:27):
I'm very curious, as Dad's how we all relate to
cannabis um and you guys know so much more than
I do about the state of the industry about where
things are going. I only have my own outdated prejudices
really of how I grew up smoking weed and what
it meant when I was sixteen or seventeen whenever I
(06:48):
was doing it. We're all raising kids, say, but you
have two kids, right, Yes, I do? And how old
are they? Ages? Five and two? Man, I'm in the
ship right now. Well, Christia, yours is two and a
half for two and a half plus, yeah exactly, yeah,
an applied one sorry mind five and six. So we're
(07:13):
all kind of initive in some way. But I would
just be curious to hear from you Christia and you, David,
how how do you integrate being a father and being
a I don't even know the word. I feel very
lame here. You could be a patient, if you're a
medical user, you could just be an adult. Use is
(07:37):
sort of the in vogue term for what we used
to call recreational use. One of the first sort of
episodes that we did for television with We to kit Um,
you know, I had to do with children who are
using massive amounts of th HC to help treat and
help them with the side effects of cancer medications and
the cancer and help treat the cancer itself. And the
(07:59):
parents also smoked pot, and some of them smoked like
a lot of pot around their kids. And it does
it strikes you was a little strange, It's visually distasteful.
Perhaps I'm interested to hear from you. David also like
what your experiences are, because we're both kind of studying
it from a journalistic standpoint, but we're also kind of
living it. I imagine. Yeah, I mean, part of me
(08:21):
feels like I'm in a bubble here in San Francisco. Um,
but I certainly did not grow up in the bubble
of San Francisco. And there's plenty of people who see
any association between cannabis and parenting as like a reason
to repeal legalization as a whole. They hold it to
a different standard than they do uh alcohol consumption, which is,
(08:41):
you know, curious because inside the bubble um. You know,
you would never really ask somebody how do they integrate,
you know, alcohol into their lives or how do they
integrate wine into their life? They would sort of snicker
at you because of UM, it's just not something they
think about with cannabis or some of these other substances.
Is it's um less, less salient because it's so so
(09:04):
happening sort of everywhere. You know, you think of the
prototypical soccer practice after school on a Friday evening in
San Francisco, and like there's vape pens there, you know, UM,
and there's people talking. They're talking about there, you know,
cannabis stocks and exchange traded funds. There's a cannabis et
f now, UM and that and that speaks to, you know,
(09:28):
a value system that makes other people's hair sort of
stand on end and you know might reflect their own
experiences or those of their loved ones with cannabis and
in really different contexts and UM, so it is really personal.
And for me, UM, when I abstract substance use around children,
you know, some principles emerge that you know, sort of
(09:49):
supersede the particular substance, Like you can ever be incapacitated.
As a parent, you always need to be able to
UM administer first aid, UM be a vigilant caregiver to
these young ones, and sometimes drive to the hospital is needed.
And I think that's a standard that people who use
alcohol or other substances, or even don't sleep enough or
(10:09):
do other stuff can fall short on. And so that's
the sort of standard I set in my life, is like,
you've got to always be the on call, even if
there's cannabis use in your life. And you know, another
big one is obvious is like from a health perspective,
is you you don't expose really anyone to smoke without
their permission. UM. Let a lot of people who can't
(10:31):
have a give consent. So you know, you're not allowed
to smoke cigarettes around my kid. We don't smoke cannabis
around them, um, you know, and we limit their exposure
to all other types of smoke. Which is really crazy
this week because we've been indoors for seven days straight.
I have a five and a two year old, you know,
and we've been inside because of the smoke from the fires.
(10:54):
What is that like? They said, you sound like hell?
It is hell? Um. They shut down UM public school tomorrow.
So we're in the middle of you know, getting child
care for that. UM. And you don't expose your kid
to find particulate matter from wildfire and you probably shouldn't
be exposing him to you know, cannabis. Smoke in your home,
UM certainly is bad optics. And it really is a
(11:17):
chance to interrogate a lot of exposures and think through like, well,
why are we sitting around this campfire? We're moving away
from word wood burning stoves as a society, um, you know,
and then it starts to get fuzzy because it comes
down to values, right, and like we think about this
every day as a parents, how you're modeling and um,
you know, what you're showing your kids you want to do.
(11:37):
And like when I think about use of all substances,
now I think about, um, what that looks like in
front of a kid. Certainly that's what experts are telling
me to um look at and UM and so I
discon you know, discontinued sort of alcohol use in in
general in front of my kids. That's UM in any
(11:57):
way sort of what did the experts say? Like, you
don't want to come home and be like, God, I
had such a terrible day, I need a beer. Like
you don't want to be medic you don't want to
use it as a You're you're modeling behaviors, and so
if you want to turn alcohol into a crutch, that's
a good way to like tell your kid it's kind
of okay, you know, Like I think that also just
(12:19):
to jump in a little like, you know, I drink
cocktails around my kid anyway, right now I'm now listening.
Maybe not, but just the idea that if you want to,
if you want to raise kids to also be able
to use cannabis as adults and I responsible, you know,
not in the shadows, And wouldn't it also make sense
(12:41):
to use cannabis in front of them from an early
age so they can model, so you can model responsible use.
This would be like the French model of I think
that's like the initial woke reaction, but when you drill
down a little bit into it, you know, there's a
lot of things that I might be okay with my
adult child doing, but I don't necessarily do in front
of them because I'm not trying to, you know, model
(13:03):
that behavior for them. Like think of little things like profanity.
Some people, people are all over the spectrum on how
much they cuss in front of their kids. But the
people who don't cuss in front of their kids, even
if they cuss a lot in their life, I don't
want their kids to get in trouble in school, don't
want them using that language around other kids. UM. Want
them to know that there's a time and place and
it's certainly not around children and as a child. UM,
(13:28):
And again that's like a personal thing. I definitely come
from a religious family where manners were important and language
was important, and you know, so we're all sort of
modeling these things, and it being apparent causes you to
interrogate your values and your ner authenticity about living those values,
and clearly we all fall short. UM. But I think
(13:50):
we're trying to raise kids that are better than us.
I don't know if that's something they're gonna end up
in therapy for, but UM, I think you do want
them to, UM be their best self, and so you
put your best self forward and that might mean reduces
just you know, just so you know, my middle initials woke. UM.
(14:10):
We're gonna name this podcast in dads. That's three work dads. Well,
maybe we're jumping ahead a little bit, because I think
there's you and I have both titraded our usage as
general stoner's and dads to a point where we've already
found the homeostasis that's going to carry us forward to
being the best dad's possible. I think partly what in
(14:32):
this moment of a culturation of cannabis into like normal
lifestyles is like what you know, what is the limit
for you? What's the limit for you? Max? What's the
limit for me? Max? Like I know that I should
only have like a couple of glasses of wine, you know,
at dinner or a beer at the barbecue, because if
there's two, then I'm like a little loopy when I
if I want to drive home. Um, So I have
(14:55):
my own sort of baseline. I think I think that
the issue for the so so for the um the
general more general population who isn't quite as like stone. Yeah,
we just doesn't spong as my pot as we do.
You know, Like there's there's a different there's a lot
of bigger barrier to entry in to get to the
(15:15):
point that we're out well, I mean, can we also
just can I just break in? And I sound I
feel like a prude and I feel like definitely like
the old fashioned one in this conversation, but um like
it's still illegal in a lot of places, and to me,
that is a huge it's a hard there's no of
child protective services, and some child protective services in some
(15:37):
counties in America, you might as well be doing heroin
in front of your kid because they go by the
federal scheduling and they say it's schedule one next to
heroin and PCP. We're going to hold on to your
kids for a couple of nights in YadA YadA ya.
I mean that I will hopefully, I want to have
child protective services called on me, you know, in the
near future. But it's like even even absent that even
(16:01):
the idea that I'm doing something illegal, Yeah, there is
that danger aspect of what if I get caught, But
I also feel like caught up in the in the
societal norm. So this is an illegal thing I'm doing,
and I'm as a as a parent, I feel and
even as a person not being a parent, I feel
(16:21):
very hesitant and nervous about doing it. I mean, obviously
that's changing where we will be in ten years, which
we can talk about in a second. Where we are now, um,
and where we were fifteen years ago. One of the
impetus is for this whole conversation is because, um, a
couple of weeks ago, I went out to Las Vegas
for the opening of a Medmen retail store. UM, and
(16:43):
it was a crazy trip. They they flew us to Rho.
We drove to their growth facility and Mustang. Then we
got back on the plane that went back to Vegas.
Then went to Vegas and you know, went to there
their apple store. It looks like an apple store, but
it's got can of this and like, um, we can
call it weed or pot? Yeah, can someone tell me
(17:05):
how to call it? They tell me to call it cannabis. Dave,
you might have a different context on this, you know,
but you can think it's really context based on this show.
It's definitely weed, probably not dope. Dope. I I'm fine
with dope. I'm fine with any end of all words
for it, because I think like it's it is in
and of itself, not just one plant. You know, It's
(17:25):
like it has so many different flavors and in like
ways of making you feel and like so to me,
it is what it is to you, And like I've
always liked weed, I've always like pot. I feel little
like it's sort of like when and and I might
be wrong on this and this is only my own opinion,
and other people can other and other people's you know.
(17:46):
What I mean say is like other like woke cannabis.
People can differ in this opinion. But when I say
the word cannabis, I feel like I'm stretching a little
bit where I'm trying to make it um. I'm trying
to make it legitimate by way of using a scientific words.
Well that's which, which is fine, and if that's what
you if that you need to do that in legal
sort of settings, and you need to do that in
medical settings. But in sort of like bro Dad's like
(18:11):
I think you know not none of us in this room,
or like if you smoke pot, you're losing, should go
to jail. No, but but my but all I've saved.
But when I was out in Vegas, all of those people,
all the men men like pr and all the like
the marketing people, they all call it cannabis and they
(18:31):
do it for reasons, right, and they don't call And
it was really funny. You go to the store and
it's beautiful. It's pretty beautiful. They have all their bud
or whatever which they call flower, which I actually like,
I'm on flower. I think it's beautiful. Did They have
their um joints which they call pre roles and it's
just short for pre roll to joint, right, But they
have their whole sort of um ore got it's an
(18:54):
our god. But it's very sanitized. It's very like above board.
They're so concerned with it being above board. And I
had never experienced that before ever, because I've never been
in a legal state, so like for me to see
this display now they have their own like it's called
state made. It's like boutique flavors like Zen, which is
some percentage of THHC and some percentage of CBD. Like
(19:16):
it's all man and they're beautifully packaged. It's like being
at Bergdore and they felt like walking into Bergdorf Goodman
and you know, um, blew your mind. It did blow
my mind because we're living in a brave new weed world.
But also that's legal. They're like, it's not legal here.
They haven't, you know. I'm like, what's the well, it's
(19:37):
not talking about critical criminology with your kid. I mean,
you don't want to make them too much of a
seditious revolutionary But I think maybe by thirteen you start
talking about pnumberal laws and you know, laws and how
you can, how enforceable they are, and the sort of
real politic of criminal justice and discretion. It's it's a
big conversation. It's definitely a learning topic, a learning moment topic.
(20:02):
We'll be right back after a quick word from our sponsors.
I mean, for me, I felt, um, how did I
feel in Vegas? I felt, um, well high because they
gave me a vape pen, which I used a lot
for the first time in like twenty years. We should
(20:24):
talk about vapens actually, if I can just jump in,
because I think that if we're if the conversation here
is like, how do we integrate weed into responsible dadhood
that we love. The answer is to vapen because like
it is, uh, it doesn't smell a bunch. You can
get different, you know, you have to source the vapen
that you want, but like as an accessory, as something
(20:46):
that has psychoactively, like you know, psychoactively changes your your
brain chemistry for moments and doesn't you know, put off
huge stoner putting your kid in danger vibes, it's the
weed pen, and I think, like, yeah, at soccer practice,
there's the there's the weed pen. Like, there's a weed
pen in a lot of places, not just along there,
and be like, the amount of modalities you're going to
(21:08):
see is explode your entire framework of cannabis. In terms
of the rock you're cured flower bud. You know, that's
literally the lowest common denominator from the fields. It's going
to be like any other agricultural product. I mean there's
little two and a half milligram THHC mint sitting in
my weed fridge right now. Um, you have a weed fridge. Yeah,
they gave me one to test, called a cure door.
(21:29):
So like the wine appreciation, you know, you sort of
we looked at the human vocabulary of cannabis, but it's
the same thing with wine. It's the same snobby sort
of you know vocabulary. I will say, the overall feeling
I got from Vegas was um, a little disconcerted, because
(21:49):
medmen is like, I'm not an anti corporate revolutionary. However,
I remember wearing my like drug rug and playing hacky
Sack in high school, and I understand that's like an
outdated version of what it means to be a stoner.
But when I was in high school and I was
that's what I did, right, And I bought shitty weed
(22:10):
from this dude down the street in art class, and
it was like a countercultural whatever the suburbs of Philadelphia.
But it was like it was like we were rebelling,
and I really liked it, and I liked the values
of those kids listening to Medeski, Martin and Wood really
not that great, but we're just like bunk. Yeah, terrible
(22:34):
desert punk, but keep going. Okay. So so I had
that whole idea in my head of what weed culture
was weet dope culture. So then I go out to
Vegas and their growth facility is beautiful. I mean it's
like state of the art, spotless obviously, like it's they
use like the highest level of cleanliness for food product
(22:56):
and like the one guy who works there is from
drift Goals and the other a guy who works there
is from like the industrial flower market, and it's the
highest quality and highest production uh marijuana I've ever seen. Um.
I mean, I've never been to a growth facility before.
But then we go and we have this like uh,
(23:17):
beautifully catered lunch, and they're spending thousands of dollars on
us as journalists to go out and see. Yeah, and
it's clearly a corporate it's clearly a corporate corporation. And
they have a ton of money. There's a ton of
money in the cannabis industry. And to me to see
this thing, which was a little bit outside of the
(23:38):
standard economy be subsumed and sucked up into the vortex
of late capitalism is a bummer. You know, that's a
real privileged position. You know, there's like a hundred secondly
and privileged. I mean, there's a hundred thousand Californians that
did not get arrested for pot this year. Um. New
York City arrests were down percent off peaks thanks to
(24:01):
decriminalization efforts. Um. But yeah, I mean, castalism is a
bit and it's here and nothing's exempt, not cannabis. Um.
You know, benef I just got back in your mind
and I gotta go in five minutes. So I just
want to get my thoughts in here because I think
(24:22):
about this, which is that like Vegas is Vegas, and
Vegas is gonna do Vegas. It's a city that was
built on a crime and uh, and it's a thermodynamic
you know, abomination. It's you know, when we're all gone,
Vegas is going to be one of the reasons why
they said why, Um, but you know that's Vegas culture.
People thought cannabis was going to change all these cultures,
(24:44):
but all these cultures are just um, you know, assimilating cannabis.
And in Vegas, I saw cannabis fully assimilated twenty four
hours a day, you know, packaged, you know, really precise
sort of product for you know, the human nervous system,
you know, among a suite of products for the human
nervous system in Vegas. And so yeah, it's like very
(25:07):
head spinning, but it's also very much of a time,
both the commercialization of it and the assimilation of it
into more cultures than any stoner could imagine. Um, what
are your personal feel like? Do you feel ruined regret
or do you feel like that's a useless emotion because
that's just the way the world is going. Do you
feel nostalgic? Um? Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't
(25:30):
feel regret and I don't feel hopeless. I think people
are claiming their cannabis culture. There's just going to be
more rooms in that mansion, and some of them are
going to be really shitty rooms. And you don't have
to go in those rooms, and you know, you can
encourage other people not to. UM. I don't have an
answer for the broader question of like capitalism, but I think,
you know, certainly cannabis values should interrogate like capitalism, and
(25:53):
we should be looking at, you know, how it can
be more like cannabis or was When are you going
to talk to your kids about I mean they're young,
but when are you going to kind of broach the
subject with them, especially because that's your job. You know,
Developmental people always tell you to like start the conversation
young and keep it broad, you know, let them ask
the questions, don't give them too much information. Um, but
(26:16):
you know, always be keeping those lines of communication open. Certainly,
people who talk about drugs and talking to kids about
drugs think of like Marcia Rosenbong rosen Bomb at Drug
Policy Alliance. I think of Rick Steves, the travel writer
has a great sort of framework. He's like, it's not
quantum physics, man, there's a bunch of ship we don't
let kids use. You're not allowed to touch my chainsaws,
(26:39):
to stay out of the liquor cabinet and stay out
of my weed. Like we'll cross that bridge down the line,
and I think that's a good place to start. But
I'm asking you like personally, yeah, so um, access control
and then classification as an adult thing. If you see it,
don't touch it, get an adult. You know. We can
(26:59):
have further conversations about this down the line, and that's
really all. Like a five year old needs to know.
There's a lot of things in the house that he's
not allowed to touch. The garden shears, electrical outlets, you know. Yeah,
but but but you they ask why, Like anytime I
forbid anything, there is an inevitable why that comes right
after it. Forbid is the wrong word. But anytime there's
(27:19):
a rule, there's like wait, wait, why, especially if it's
a new rule. Right, So that's that's kind of like
where the wise with all kids, Like we're five wise
from existence basically, so like yeah, yeah, I just yeah,
why like what are the wise that you give? I
guess is the question for right now? For a four,
(27:40):
five and a two year old. What's still working is
that like this is adult stuff. There's a lot of
adult stuff. It's it's a four adults, that's all you
need to know. And uh, you know, like so yeah,
I mean I'm going to maintain that policy until they're
an adult. I don't want them using cannabis underage, even
if they live in San Francisco and go to public
school like the the you know, I don't want to
(28:03):
meet drinking alcohol. That's actually something too to highlight specifically
is that, like from ages sixty five, specifically, heavy cannabis use,
which is to say, multiple times a week, is is
shown has been shown for for decades to be quite
detrimental to cognitive development. It's um ya, light cannabis used,
(28:24):
which just like one once time, once a month or
you know, something like that not so bad. So it's
really just like, you know, you want your kids who
are teenagers, who are like in the throes of countercultural
rebellion and just like the fun of being a kid
in smoking pot, to understand that yeah, it's cool to
smoke pot every once in a while, but just don't
do it all the time, just like drinking frank it's
a middle way. You're not saying you're you're not precluding
(28:47):
it with such a heavy hand that there's so interesting
that they can't even have the conversation. It's what you
were saying, David about keeping the lines of communication open.
I do think disproportionality with regard to like, you know,
punishing kids for of these behaviors can really discredit you
as a parent. Um I think where you punished heavily
for a Candida. Yeah, I think like my mom threatened
(29:08):
to put me in Christian school. And when you're like
thirteen or fourteen or fifteen, you know, switching schools and
go into like a parochial school, it seems like the
end of the world. My parents would threaten that we
moved back to India, Oh my god, which would have
been but they would have hated that more than I
would have been. But what's so funny is that when
I was in high school and I spoke to me
and I went back home and I was like, I
(29:29):
used to walk in and I'd be like, Mom, I'm high,
and she'd be like, fucking white people. Yeah, she's just
like going to Is that true, She's just like, yeah, cool,
go to sleep. Yeah, I've been high in my life too. Congratulations. No,
but that's nice. You were able to be super honest.
I think that's that I was trying to get a
rise out of her. She wouldn't give me a rise.
(29:51):
But of the three of us, I'm the one who's like, no, no,
pod pot and you guys are all like it's fine. Yeah.
I think I'm hoping my kids rebel and become like
a nice you know, actuary and some type of public
bonds analysts. You know, they're like I saw dad, he
was a writer about weed. Yeah he looked Yeah, that
looked like a lot of fun. You know, I'm gonna go,
(30:15):
Uh well, David, thank you for joining us. Stay safe
as safe as you can. Thank you. Thanks man. It
was great talking. Yeah, it was great to catch catch
you know, catchy Krishna. And nice to meet you, Josh,
and uh see you guys next time. Wait, Krishna, h
do you want to hear word from our sponsors? Depends? Yeah,
(30:37):
me too. I felt a little insulted by that conversation,
but you know, it's okay, and I can feel insulted.
I think he brought up some good points about my reactions,
which I admit are like a little naive, but it
still has some questions. This is a really tough person conversation,
(31:01):
and I think it's it's easy to kind of put
maxims and rules and like a big bright lines between things.
But we're talking about really difficult things to talk about,
which is like and the consequence is gonna be big
and real. I think what we're talking some of the discomfort,
(31:21):
I think is we're talking about how we relate to
pleasure because for you know, like why is medicinal medicinal marijuana?
What does it medical marijuana? Like? Why is medical marijuana? Okay?
But recreational use is not, like what's wrong with's just
getting high to get high and be and have a
good time. Like when I came back from Vegas, I was, um, well,
(31:46):
So in Vegas it's an adult use state, recreational state, right,
New York is still a medical In New York, it's
still cloaked in this medical language, whereas in Vegas it's
completely made into a commodity, just like a prod like
here is then here's fun, here is like whatever else.
(32:06):
I feel pretty conflicted about both aspects of it. I'm
having an intense reaction because I can see the future
of cannabis and it's big farma, like big farm is
gonna buy these companies once they're once they're on the
other side of fighting against legalization, they're going to cash in.
(32:26):
What we thought about in and weeticett was who what
is the fight for the soul of the plan? The
issue to me is more about individuals relationships to it
than societies relationships to it, because I think what's so
interesting about pot, unlike maybe alcohol maybe not, is that
experiences with it very greatly, like the way that you
(32:48):
react to it, the way that I react to it, Max,
Like we're it's all. It's not as simple as like
I had a couple of beers, like you know, I danced.
So that's why I think the question of like the
big societal stuff and about capitalism and where the the
industry going, Like you're right, these are huge open ended questions,
but I'm the interest to me is like, well, what
(33:10):
does it mean for your life? And what does it
mean for like how you experience pleasure when you want
to how you experience fatherhood. Um, Christia, well, thank you
for talking about weed with me. I haven't had anyone
to talk about it with. Christian. This is our our
last podcast together. Am I ever going to see you again? Uh, alright,
(33:32):
so no, I think so I think we become friends
or like I I like hanging out with you and
talking to you, so I did. Uh, I introduced you
as a friend earlier in one of these things. So
I feel like even and we learned that we had
a mutual friend James. Shout out to James James Auder
back your kids cool Shamus. Um, Christia, it has been
a wonderful time talking with you over the course of
(33:54):
these episodes. I feel like you have brought I don't know,
a very deeply knowledgeable and curious perspective that I didn't have.
And and uh, You've been a wonderful partner. And thank you.
Thank you for having me and allowing me into your
dan of dad. Dam. You might want to go get
(34:26):
high now. I think I actually am going to go
get high at home. Um. Thank you Krishna A. Davlin
for being my conversation partner. Thank you to David Downs
of Leafley for being for taking time out of his
burning life to talk about marijuana with us. Thank you
(34:48):
to Max Savvage Levinson for producing the podcast, and Decosha
Turma for being our engineer. Andrew Berman is the executive producer.
I'm Joshua David Stein. I'm the I produced it, and
I'm the host. So like every episode, this episode of
The Fatherly Podcast was born out of a deep seated
insecurity and ignorance on my part. It's time about weed.
(35:11):
But if you're listening and you have questions about being
a dad, questions about the podcast, questions about just life,
give us a call on our hotline. It's a seven
through two number, Krishna. That's central New Jersey, probably Middlesex
County and Brunswick seven through two five seven one. That's
(35:32):
seven through two four five seven one. And if you
like what you heard, subscribe to The Fatherly Podcast on
I Heart Radio or and review it kindly on iTunes.
Have a wonderful week.
Welcome to the Fatherly Podcast. My name is Joshua David Stein.
So I'm sitting here with Kristna Volo. Hello, Yeah, we
got it. I'm going to jump right into it. Christian
knows a ton about weed. I know nothing about weed.
This episode is about weed. We're gonna talk to Christian,
who is the host of Viceland's wid Quette, literally the
(00:39):
pre eminent show about weed. And we're also going to
give a call to David Downs, who is the California
editor of Leafley. He is a cannabis journalist. You gotta
always be on call even if there's cannabis use in
your life. And I'm curious about how to incorporate it
into my life as a dad, whether I'm doing the
right thing, how to talk to them about it. Also
(01:01):
the idea that weed was such an act of rebellion
as a kid, And think about it in ten years,
when your kids fourteen and minds, you know whatever, fifteen sixteen,
it'll probably be adult used recreation and normal legal here. Yea,
it won't be at all what it was like for
us growing up. And I'm really curious about what that's
(01:22):
going to look like. Welcome, very foggy podcast. I hope
you are enjoying the show. When you were growing up
and you smoked, what was your relationship to weed? Like
it was bad? Like, you know, I was taught that
(01:44):
weed was bad and that when you smoke it, you
are doing something bad your brain, You're wasting your time,
and you know, you're just kind of associating with those
who you shouldn't just by nature of the chemical. And
you know, my parents are Hindu, very traditional from India, um,
(02:06):
and so it was really it more than just being weed.
It represented kind of the depravity of Western culture. That
makes sense. And so how did they feel when you
became a cannabis journalist. Well, and this is sort of
how the show started. I call my mom. I'm pretty
stoned in a weed growing facility. And I called my
(02:28):
mom and I tell her I've got a new show
and it's about weed. And I thought, I know, it's
really nervous doing this, and this this was like not
this is like the creative director of the channel at
the times, like Jones is idea. I'm sorry, but it was.
It was super fun working with him on the show.
But what I mean to say, it's like it was
the idea of him and another producer named Brendan Fitzgerald,
(02:51):
like call your mom. And the reason that happened was
because we when we made it on the web, I
interviewed the president of Uruguay, which she was the first
country to fully legalize marijuana for adults. So we went
down there. We did like kind of a travel story,
and you know, I met some people and we were
able to score interview with the president and so I
smoked a joint like in his presence, on his property,
(03:14):
and he was like, yeah, totally go for it. But
so I told my parents that are like, hey, journalism
jobs going so great, guys, I like interviewed the president
of a country. She mike on her end, Oh my mom, No,
we just got it through the phone was on speaker phone.
Uh that she didn't know I was gonna call so
and in other case, so I had to do that
(03:34):
call to my parents the day before the Uruguay story
came out because I didn't tell him I smoked weed
on camera. So I had to break to them like, hey,
I'm smoking pot on camera, and that it kind of
devastated them, Like it took a while for us to
kind of get through that, and it was a little
bit of a joke, but also kind of the the
(03:56):
crucible of the show was like, can my mom be
cool with me smoking weed? And that kind of kicked
it all off, And that's the kind of relationship my
dad to boot like as well, do you see legalization
affecting I don't know, like, how do you see it
affecting families? And how do you see it affecting not
on a maybe not on a systemic level, but you
(04:18):
were talking about how it's really about how people interact
with the plant themselves. So how do you see widespread
legalization affecting how dad's behave with their kids? When you're
like a little high, it can be easier to relate
to your child's logic, emotions and otherwise. My biggest problem
(04:40):
with communicating with my kid is scaring him with anger,
with like big adult things. And I think and so
if I like, get if I yell, or if I like,
do you know, get a little tense because something is
like bothering me or something's wrong or did something wrong
like that is the biggest barrier for our communication. So
(05:02):
what I found is from time to time it can
help me sand off those like shitty reactions to little
things like I don't get frustrated, he doesn't get frustrated.
We start like, we call her, we have a great time.
I think I do have this like underlying insecurity that
something terrible is going to happen and I'm gonna be
(05:22):
too high to help them. Sure, but I'd probably be
too enough to help them even if I wasn't high
so well, I mean, one way to help that out
is potentially have your partner around also, so that there's
someone who's there, who who is holding the ball of
responsibility the conscious and then every once in a while
she could be that, you know, you could hold the
(05:43):
ball of responsibility and she could so like there's there's
ways through that feeling. Um, but I would I mean,
I you know, I would say that I think there's
something there. I don't know if it's like real or
imagined in so far as your stone and so you're like,
I'm like having child brain, but you think you're relating
(06:04):
to your kids, Like, okay, so we're gonna talk to
David Downs, who is the California editor for Leafley, which is,
as you might guess, a website covering all things cannabis.
I think you have some pretty good thoughts about the
future of weed. Hey David, Hey Josh, thanks for having me.
Hi Krishna, Hello, so nice to be amongst another head.
(06:27):
I'm very curious, as Dad's how we all relate to
cannabis um and you guys know so much more than
I do about the state of the industry about where
things are going. I only have my own outdated prejudices
really of how I grew up smoking weed and what
it meant when I was sixteen or seventeen whenever I
(06:48):
was doing it. We're all raising kids, say, but you
have two kids, right, Yes, I do? And how old
are they? Ages? Five and two? Man, I'm in the
ship right now. Well, Christia, yours is two and a
half for two and a half plus, yeah exactly, yeah,
an applied one sorry mind five and six. So we're
(07:13):
all kind of initive in some way. But I would
just be curious to hear from you Christia and you, David,
how how do you integrate being a father and being
a I don't even know the word. I feel very
lame here. You could be a patient, if you're a
medical user, you could just be an adult. Use is
(07:37):
sort of the in vogue term for what we used
to call recreational use. One of the first sort of
episodes that we did for television with We to kit Um,
you know, I had to do with children who are
using massive amounts of th HC to help treat and
help them with the side effects of cancer medications and
the cancer and help treat the cancer itself. And the
(07:59):
parents also smoked pot, and some of them smoked like
a lot of pot around their kids. And it does
it strikes you was a little strange, It's visually distasteful.
Perhaps I'm interested to hear from you. David also like
what your experiences are, because we're both kind of studying
it from a journalistic standpoint, but we're also kind of
living it. I imagine. Yeah, I mean, part of me
(08:21):
feels like I'm in a bubble here in San Francisco. Um,
but I certainly did not grow up in the bubble
of San Francisco. And there's plenty of people who see
any association between cannabis and parenting as like a reason
to repeal legalization as a whole. They hold it to
a different standard than they do uh alcohol consumption, which is,
(08:41):
you know, curious because inside the bubble um. You know,
you would never really ask somebody how do they integrate,
you know, alcohol into their lives or how do they
integrate wine into their life? They would sort of snicker
at you because of UM, it's just not something they
think about with cannabis or some of these other substances.
Is it's um less, less salient because it's so so
(09:04):
happening sort of everywhere. You know, you think of the
prototypical soccer practice after school on a Friday evening in
San Francisco, and like there's vape pens there, you know, UM,
and there's people talking. They're talking about there, you know,
cannabis stocks and exchange traded funds. There's a cannabis et
f now, UM and that and that speaks to, you know,
(09:28):
a value system that makes other people's hair sort of
stand on end and you know might reflect their own
experiences or those of their loved ones with cannabis and
in really different contexts and UM, so it is really personal.
And for me, UM, when I abstract substance use around children,
you know, some principles emerge that you know, sort of
(09:49):
supersede the particular substance, Like you can ever be incapacitated.
As a parent, you always need to be able to
UM administer first aid, UM be a vigilant caregiver to
these young ones, and sometimes drive to the hospital is needed.
And I think that's a standard that people who use
alcohol or other substances, or even don't sleep enough or
(10:09):
do other stuff can fall short on. And so that's
the sort of standard I set in my life, is like,
you've got to always be the on call, even if
there's cannabis use in your life. And you know, another
big one is obvious is like from a health perspective,
is you you don't expose really anyone to smoke without
their permission. UM. Let a lot of people who can't
(10:31):
have a give consent. So you know, you're not allowed
to smoke cigarettes around my kid. We don't smoke cannabis
around them, um, you know, and we limit their exposure
to all other types of smoke. Which is really crazy
this week because we've been indoors for seven days straight.
I have a five and a two year old, you know,
and we've been inside because of the smoke from the fires.
(10:54):
What is that like? They said, you sound like hell?
It is hell? Um. They shut down UM public school tomorrow.
So we're in the middle of you know, getting child
care for that. UM. And you don't expose your kid
to find particulate matter from wildfire and you probably shouldn't
be exposing him to you know, cannabis. Smoke in your home,
UM certainly is bad optics. And it really is a
(11:17):
chance to interrogate a lot of exposures and think through like, well,
why are we sitting around this campfire? We're moving away
from word wood burning stoves as a society, um, you know,
and then it starts to get fuzzy because it comes
down to values, right, and like we think about this
every day as a parents, how you're modeling and um,
you know, what you're showing your kids you want to do.
(11:37):
And like when I think about use of all substances,
now I think about, um, what that looks like in
front of a kid. Certainly that's what experts are telling
me to um look at and UM and so I
discon you know, discontinued sort of alcohol use in in
general in front of my kids. That's UM in any
(11:57):
way sort of what did the experts say? Like, you
don't want to come home and be like, God, I
had such a terrible day, I need a beer. Like
you don't want to be medic you don't want to
use it as a You're you're modeling behaviors, and so
if you want to turn alcohol into a crutch, that's
a good way to like tell your kid it's kind
of okay, you know, Like I think that also just
(12:19):
to jump in a little like, you know, I drink
cocktails around my kid anyway, right now I'm now listening.
Maybe not, but just the idea that if you want to,
if you want to raise kids to also be able
to use cannabis as adults and I responsible, you know,
not in the shadows, And wouldn't it also make sense
(12:41):
to use cannabis in front of them from an early
age so they can model, so you can model responsible use.
This would be like the French model of I think
that's like the initial woke reaction, but when you drill
down a little bit into it, you know, there's a
lot of things that I might be okay with my
adult child doing, but I don't necessarily do in front
of them because I'm not trying to, you know, model
(13:03):
that behavior for them. Like think of little things like profanity.
Some people, people are all over the spectrum on how
much they cuss in front of their kids. But the
people who don't cuss in front of their kids, even
if they cuss a lot in their life, I don't
want their kids to get in trouble in school, don't
want them using that language around other kids. UM. Want
them to know that there's a time and place and
it's certainly not around children and as a child. UM,
(13:28):
And again that's like a personal thing. I definitely come
from a religious family where manners were important and language
was important, and you know, so we're all sort of
modeling these things, and it being apparent causes you to
interrogate your values and your ner authenticity about living those values,
and clearly we all fall short. UM. But I think
(13:50):
we're trying to raise kids that are better than us.
I don't know if that's something they're gonna end up
in therapy for, but UM, I think you do want
them to, UM be their best self, and so you
put your best self forward and that might mean reduces
just you know, just so you know, my middle initials woke. UM.
(14:10):
We're gonna name this podcast in dads. That's three work dads. Well,
maybe we're jumping ahead a little bit, because I think
there's you and I have both titraded our usage as
general stoner's and dads to a point where we've already
found the homeostasis that's going to carry us forward to
being the best dad's possible. I think partly what in
(14:32):
this moment of a culturation of cannabis into like normal
lifestyles is like what you know, what is the limit
for you? What's the limit for you? Max? What's the
limit for me? Max? Like I know that I should
only have like a couple of glasses of wine, you know,
at dinner or a beer at the barbecue, because if
there's two, then I'm like a little loopy when I
if I want to drive home. Um, So I have
(14:55):
my own sort of baseline. I think I think that
the issue for the so so for the um the
general more general population who isn't quite as like stone. Yeah,
we just doesn't spong as my pot as we do.
You know, Like there's there's a different there's a lot
of bigger barrier to entry in to get to the
(15:15):
point that we're out well, I mean, can we also
just can I just break in? And I sound I
feel like a prude and I feel like definitely like
the old fashioned one in this conversation, but um like
it's still illegal in a lot of places, and to me,
that is a huge it's a hard there's no of
child protective services, and some child protective services in some
(15:37):
counties in America, you might as well be doing heroin
in front of your kid because they go by the
federal scheduling and they say it's schedule one next to
heroin and PCP. We're going to hold on to your
kids for a couple of nights in YadA YadA ya.
I mean that I will hopefully, I want to have
child protective services called on me, you know, in the
near future. But it's like even even absent that even
(16:01):
the idea that I'm doing something illegal, Yeah, there is
that danger aspect of what if I get caught, But
I also feel like caught up in the in the
societal norm. So this is an illegal thing I'm doing,
and I'm as a as a parent, I feel and
even as a person not being a parent, I feel
(16:21):
very hesitant and nervous about doing it. I mean, obviously
that's changing where we will be in ten years, which
we can talk about in a second. Where we are now, um,
and where we were fifteen years ago. One of the
impetus is for this whole conversation is because, um, a
couple of weeks ago, I went out to Las Vegas
for the opening of a Medmen retail store. UM, and
(16:43):
it was a crazy trip. They they flew us to Rho.
We drove to their growth facility and Mustang. Then we
got back on the plane that went back to Vegas.
Then went to Vegas and you know, went to there
their apple store. It looks like an apple store, but
it's got can of this and like, um, we can
call it weed or pot? Yeah, can someone tell me
(17:05):
how to call it? They tell me to call it cannabis. Dave,
you might have a different context on this, you know,
but you can think it's really context based on this show.
It's definitely weed, probably not dope. Dope. I I'm fine
with dope. I'm fine with any end of all words
for it, because I think like it's it is in
and of itself, not just one plant. You know, It's
(17:25):
like it has so many different flavors and in like
ways of making you feel and like so to me,
it is what it is to you, And like I've
always liked weed, I've always like pot. I feel little
like it's sort of like when and and I might
be wrong on this and this is only my own opinion,
and other people can other and other people's you know.
(17:46):
What I mean say is like other like woke cannabis.
People can differ in this opinion. But when I say
the word cannabis, I feel like I'm stretching a little
bit where I'm trying to make it um. I'm trying
to make it legitimate by way of using a scientific words.
Well that's which, which is fine, and if that's what
you if that you need to do that in legal
sort of settings, and you need to do that in
medical settings. But in sort of like bro Dad's like
(18:11):
I think you know not none of us in this room,
or like if you smoke pot, you're losing, should go
to jail. No, but but my but all I've saved.
But when I was out in Vegas, all of those people,
all the men men like pr and all the like
the marketing people, they all call it cannabis and they
(18:31):
do it for reasons, right, and they don't call And
it was really funny. You go to the store and
it's beautiful. It's pretty beautiful. They have all their bud
or whatever which they call flower, which I actually like,
I'm on flower. I think it's beautiful. Did They have
their um joints which they call pre roles and it's
just short for pre roll to joint, right, But they
have their whole sort of um ore got it's an
(18:54):
our god. But it's very sanitized. It's very like above board.
They're so concerned with it being above board. And I
had never experienced that before ever, because I've never been
in a legal state, so like for me to see
this display now they have their own like it's called
state made. It's like boutique flavors like Zen, which is
some percentage of THHC and some percentage of CBD. Like
(19:16):
it's all man and they're beautifully packaged. It's like being
at Bergdore and they felt like walking into Bergdorf Goodman
and you know, um, blew your mind. It did blow
my mind because we're living in a brave new weed world.
But also that's legal. They're like, it's not legal here.
They haven't, you know. I'm like, what's the well, it's
(19:37):
not talking about critical criminology with your kid. I mean,
you don't want to make them too much of a
seditious revolutionary But I think maybe by thirteen you start
talking about pnumberal laws and you know, laws and how
you can, how enforceable they are, and the sort of
real politic of criminal justice and discretion. It's it's a
big conversation. It's definitely a learning topic, a learning moment topic.
(20:02):
We'll be right back after a quick word from our sponsors.
I mean, for me, I felt, um, how did I
feel in Vegas? I felt, um, well high because they
gave me a vape pen, which I used a lot
for the first time in like twenty years. We should
(20:24):
talk about vapens actually, if I can just jump in,
because I think that if we're if the conversation here
is like, how do we integrate weed into responsible dadhood
that we love. The answer is to vapen because like
it is, uh, it doesn't smell a bunch. You can
get different, you know, you have to source the vapen
that you want, but like as an accessory, as something
(20:46):
that has psychoactively, like you know, psychoactively changes your your
brain chemistry for moments and doesn't you know, put off
huge stoner putting your kid in danger vibes, it's the
weed pen, and I think, like, yeah, at soccer practice,
there's the there's the weed pen. Like, there's a weed
pen in a lot of places, not just along there,
and be like, the amount of modalities you're going to
(21:08):
see is explode your entire framework of cannabis. In terms
of the rock you're cured flower bud. You know, that's
literally the lowest common denominator from the fields. It's going
to be like any other agricultural product. I mean there's
little two and a half milligram THHC mint sitting in
my weed fridge right now. Um, you have a weed fridge. Yeah,
they gave me one to test, called a cure door.
(21:29):
So like the wine appreciation, you know, you sort of
we looked at the human vocabulary of cannabis, but it's
the same thing with wine. It's the same snobby sort
of you know vocabulary. I will say, the overall feeling
I got from Vegas was um, a little disconcerted, because
(21:49):
medmen is like, I'm not an anti corporate revolutionary. However,
I remember wearing my like drug rug and playing hacky
Sack in high school, and I understand that's like an
outdated version of what it means to be a stoner.
But when I was in high school and I was
that's what I did, right, And I bought shitty weed
(22:10):
from this dude down the street in art class, and
it was like a countercultural whatever the suburbs of Philadelphia.
But it was like it was like we were rebelling,
and I really liked it, and I liked the values
of those kids listening to Medeski, Martin and Wood really
not that great, but we're just like bunk. Yeah, terrible
(22:34):
desert punk, but keep going. Okay. So so I had
that whole idea in my head of what weed culture
was weet dope culture. So then I go out to
Vegas and their growth facility is beautiful. I mean it's
like state of the art, spotless obviously, like it's they
use like the highest level of cleanliness for food product
(22:56):
and like the one guy who works there is from
drift Goals and the other a guy who works there
is from like the industrial flower market, and it's the
highest quality and highest production uh marijuana I've ever seen. Um.
I mean, I've never been to a growth facility before.
But then we go and we have this like uh,
(23:17):
beautifully catered lunch, and they're spending thousands of dollars on
us as journalists to go out and see. Yeah, and
it's clearly a corporate it's clearly a corporate corporation. And
they have a ton of money. There's a ton of
money in the cannabis industry. And to me to see
this thing, which was a little bit outside of the
(23:38):
standard economy be subsumed and sucked up into the vortex
of late capitalism is a bummer. You know, that's a
real privileged position. You know, there's like a hundred secondly
and privileged. I mean, there's a hundred thousand Californians that
did not get arrested for pot this year. Um. New
York City arrests were down percent off peaks thanks to
(24:01):
decriminalization efforts. Um. But yeah, I mean, castalism is a
bit and it's here and nothing's exempt, not cannabis. Um.
You know, benef I just got back in your mind
and I gotta go in five minutes. So I just
want to get my thoughts in here because I think
(24:22):
about this, which is that like Vegas is Vegas, and
Vegas is gonna do Vegas. It's a city that was
built on a crime and uh, and it's a thermodynamic
you know, abomination. It's you know, when we're all gone,
Vegas is going to be one of the reasons why
they said why, Um, but you know that's Vegas culture.
People thought cannabis was going to change all these cultures,
(24:44):
but all these cultures are just um, you know, assimilating cannabis.
And in Vegas, I saw cannabis fully assimilated twenty four
hours a day, you know, packaged, you know, really precise
sort of product for you know, the human nervous system,
you know, among a suite of products for the human
nervous system in Vegas. And so yeah, it's like very
(25:07):
head spinning, but it's also very much of a time,
both the commercialization of it and the assimilation of it
into more cultures than any stoner could imagine. Um, what
are your personal feel like? Do you feel ruined regret
or do you feel like that's a useless emotion because
that's just the way the world is going. Do you
feel nostalgic? Um? Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't
(25:30):
feel regret and I don't feel hopeless. I think people
are claiming their cannabis culture. There's just going to be
more rooms in that mansion, and some of them are
going to be really shitty rooms. And you don't have
to go in those rooms, and you know, you can
encourage other people not to. UM. I don't have an
answer for the broader question of like capitalism, but I think,
you know, certainly cannabis values should interrogate like capitalism, and
(25:53):
we should be looking at, you know, how it can
be more like cannabis or was When are you going
to talk to your kids about I mean they're young,
but when are you going to kind of broach the
subject with them, especially because that's your job. You know,
Developmental people always tell you to like start the conversation
young and keep it broad, you know, let them ask
the questions, don't give them too much information. Um, but
(26:16):
you know, always be keeping those lines of communication open. Certainly,
people who talk about drugs and talking to kids about
drugs think of like Marcia Rosenbong rosen Bomb at Drug
Policy Alliance. I think of Rick Steves, the travel writer
has a great sort of framework. He's like, it's not
quantum physics, man, there's a bunch of ship we don't
let kids use. You're not allowed to touch my chainsaws,
(26:39):
to stay out of the liquor cabinet and stay out
of my weed. Like we'll cross that bridge down the line,
and I think that's a good place to start. But
I'm asking you like personally, yeah, so um, access control
and then classification as an adult thing. If you see it,
don't touch it, get an adult. You know. We can
(26:59):
have further conversations about this down the line, and that's
really all. Like a five year old needs to know.
There's a lot of things in the house that he's
not allowed to touch. The garden shears, electrical outlets, you know. Yeah,
but but but you they ask why, Like anytime I
forbid anything, there is an inevitable why that comes right
after it. Forbid is the wrong word. But anytime there's
(27:19):
a rule, there's like wait, wait, why, especially if it's
a new rule. Right, So that's that's kind of like
where the wise with all kids, Like we're five wise
from existence basically, so like yeah, yeah, I just yeah,
why like what are the wise that you give? I
guess is the question for right now? For a four,
(27:40):
five and a two year old. What's still working is
that like this is adult stuff. There's a lot of
adult stuff. It's it's a four adults, that's all you
need to know. And uh, you know, like so yeah,
I mean I'm going to maintain that policy until they're
an adult. I don't want them using cannabis underage, even
if they live in San Francisco and go to public
school like the the you know, I don't want to
(28:03):
meet drinking alcohol. That's actually something too to highlight specifically
is that, like from ages sixty five, specifically, heavy cannabis use,
which is to say, multiple times a week, is is
shown has been shown for for decades to be quite
detrimental to cognitive development. It's um ya, light cannabis used,
(28:24):
which just like one once time, once a month or
you know, something like that not so bad. So it's
really just like, you know, you want your kids who
are teenagers, who are like in the throes of countercultural
rebellion and just like the fun of being a kid
in smoking pot, to understand that yeah, it's cool to
smoke pot every once in a while, but just don't
do it all the time, just like drinking frank it's
a middle way. You're not saying you're you're not precluding
(28:47):
it with such a heavy hand that there's so interesting
that they can't even have the conversation. It's what you
were saying, David about keeping the lines of communication open.
I do think disproportionality with regard to like, you know,
punishing kids for of these behaviors can really discredit you
as a parent. Um I think where you punished heavily
for a Candida. Yeah, I think like my mom threatened
(29:08):
to put me in Christian school. And when you're like
thirteen or fourteen or fifteen, you know, switching schools and
go into like a parochial school, it seems like the
end of the world. My parents would threaten that we
moved back to India, Oh my god, which would have
been but they would have hated that more than I
would have been. But what's so funny is that when
I was in high school and I spoke to me
and I went back home and I was like, I
(29:29):
used to walk in and I'd be like, Mom, I'm high,
and she'd be like, fucking white people. Yeah, she's just
like going to Is that true, She's just like, yeah, cool,
go to sleep. Yeah, I've been high in my life too. Congratulations. No,
but that's nice. You were able to be super honest.
I think that's that I was trying to get a
rise out of her. She wouldn't give me a rise.
(29:51):
But of the three of us, I'm the one who's like, no, no,
pod pot and you guys are all like it's fine. Yeah.
I think I'm hoping my kids rebel and become like
a nice you know, actuary and some type of public
bonds analysts. You know, they're like I saw dad, he
was a writer about weed. Yeah he looked Yeah, that
looked like a lot of fun. You know, I'm gonna go,
(30:15):
Uh well, David, thank you for joining us. Stay safe
as safe as you can. Thank you. Thanks man. It
was great talking. Yeah, it was great to catch catch
you know, catchy Krishna. And nice to meet you, Josh,
and uh see you guys next time. Wait, Krishna, h
do you want to hear word from our sponsors? Depends? Yeah,
(30:37):
me too. I felt a little insulted by that conversation,
but you know, it's okay, and I can feel insulted.
I think he brought up some good points about my reactions,
which I admit are like a little naive, but it
still has some questions. This is a really tough person conversation,
(31:01):
and I think it's it's easy to kind of put
maxims and rules and like a big bright lines between things.
But we're talking about really difficult things to talk about,
which is like and the consequence is gonna be big
and real. I think what we're talking some of the discomfort,
(31:21):
I think is we're talking about how we relate to
pleasure because for you know, like why is medicinal medicinal marijuana?
What does it medical marijuana? Like? Why is medical marijuana? Okay?
But recreational use is not, like what's wrong with's just
getting high to get high and be and have a
good time. Like when I came back from Vegas, I was, um, well,
(31:46):
So in Vegas it's an adult use state, recreational state, right,
New York is still a medical In New York, it's
still cloaked in this medical language, whereas in Vegas it's
completely made into a commodity, just like a prod like
here is then here's fun, here is like whatever else.
(32:06):
I feel pretty conflicted about both aspects of it. I'm
having an intense reaction because I can see the future
of cannabis and it's big farma, like big farm is
gonna buy these companies once they're once they're on the
other side of fighting against legalization, they're going to cash in.
(32:26):
What we thought about in and weeticett was who what
is the fight for the soul of the plan? The
issue to me is more about individuals relationships to it
than societies relationships to it, because I think what's so
interesting about pot, unlike maybe alcohol maybe not, is that
experiences with it very greatly, like the way that you
(32:48):
react to it, the way that I react to it, Max,
Like we're it's all. It's not as simple as like
I had a couple of beers, like you know, I danced.
So that's why I think the question of like the
big societal stuff and about capitalism and where the the
industry going, Like you're right, these are huge open ended questions,
but I'm the interest to me is like, well, what
(33:10):
does it mean for your life? And what does it
mean for like how you experience pleasure when you want
to how you experience fatherhood. Um, Christia, well, thank you
for talking about weed with me. I haven't had anyone
to talk about it with. Christian. This is our our
last podcast together. Am I ever going to see you again? Uh, alright,
(33:32):
so no, I think so I think we become friends
or like I I like hanging out with you and
talking to you, so I did. Uh, I introduced you
as a friend earlier in one of these things. So
I feel like even and we learned that we had
a mutual friend James. Shout out to James James Auder
back your kids cool Shamus. Um, Christia, it has been
a wonderful time talking with you over the course of
(33:54):
these episodes. I feel like you have brought I don't know,
a very deeply knowledgeable and curious perspective that I didn't have.
And and uh, You've been a wonderful partner. And thank you.
Thank you for having me and allowing me into your
dan of dad. Dam. You might want to go get
(34:26):
high now. I think I actually am going to go
get high at home. Um. Thank you Krishna A. Davlin
for being my conversation partner. Thank you to David Downs
of Leafley for being for taking time out of his
burning life to talk about marijuana with us. Thank you
(34:48):
to Max Savvage Levinson for producing the podcast, and Decosha
Turma for being our engineer. Andrew Berman is the executive producer.
I'm Joshua David Stein. I'm the I produced it, and
I'm the host. So like every episode, this episode of
The Fatherly Podcast was born out of a deep seated
insecurity and ignorance on my part. It's time about weed.
(35:11):
But if you're listening and you have questions about being
a dad, questions about the podcast, questions about just life,
give us a call on our hotline. It's a seven
through two number, Krishna. That's central New Jersey, probably Middlesex
County and Brunswick seven through two five seven one. That's
(35:32):
seven through two four five seven one. And if you
like what you heard, subscribe to The Fatherly Podcast on
I Heart Radio or and review it kindly on iTunes.
Have a wonderful week.
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