December 27, 2018 • 40 mins
Joshua David Stein and new co-host (and "Wall Street Journal" columnist) Jason Gay speak to Mike Colter, the actor America knows as Luke Cage, about showing kids weakness and what it's like to parent when you're ripped out of your mind and have a really deep and intimidating voice. Colter offers some hot takes on children's literature and parenting classes. Sweet Christmas!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to the Fatherly Podcast. I am your host, Joshua
David Stein, and I'm joined for the first time by
my co host, currently checking his email on his phone.
Responding on email, it's even worse. It's worse, Jason Kay, Hey, Jason, Hey,
hold on. Check. As I just said, all right, there
(00:35):
I go. Today, we'll be talking to a real life superhero.
Luke Cage, a k humanities my culture. That's how he
walked around. It's like, Hi, I'm humanity, is my culture
also put in some tank like an exotic fish, came
up with abilities. I just want to be left the
(00:57):
hell alone. It's true, we'll be talking to my culture.
The actor, who is perhaps best known for playing uh
Luke Cage on Netflix is unfortunately just canceled here is strangely,
and we'll get into he is also a father. As
we'll get into. He has two daughters, one who's quite new.
He's portrayed in the arts as this like bulletproof guy
(01:20):
and then him doing push ups with his daughter on
his back and posting like ridiculous amounts of baby. You know,
and I wanted and I want to to well, like
I said, I'm just obsessed. I mean there's no I
could try to like shroud out in some other um
(01:41):
conceptual ship, but that's not true. He always, as far
as I can tell, portrays really strong characters. And there's
something about his voice which I'm eager to hear. I
r L very low and his persona certainly is sort
of invincible. And in fact, Luke Cage's bulletproof. And I'm
curious how much he keeps that up, how much that
(02:04):
is true in his personal life with his daughter. I mean,
I don't know, this is your experience, but I also,
as a father struggle a little bit with how much
to raise a curtain in front of my own kids,
to show them my own emotional struggles, my own vulnerabilities,
my uh my emotions, you know. And I'm curious what
(02:28):
his as as you said, he is the closest thing
you and I have to a superhero. What his experiences
as well, how much to let the children behind the
curtain of the real Joshua. There's a little wizard of
Hams back they're going, it's like pulling levers. You're grounded.
(02:48):
My heart's broken. You're grounded, deep seated insecurity. Welcome to
the Fatherly Podcast. I hope you'll enjoy this show. Jason, Um,
(03:14):
I know a little bit about you. One of the
things I admire most is your Wikipedia head shot. Oh thanks, yeah,
but tell me a little bit more about Well, I'll
just for the listener at home. He's in the head shot.
At least he swave clean cut, in a suit, I
think with glasses. Uh, in studio, he is I look
(03:35):
like the after shot. That the after Now it's like
you know, I've I've fallen on hard times. That photo
was taken because a handful of years ago, now five
years ago, I was on a very short lived television
show with Regis Philpin called Crowd Goes Wild. It was
(03:56):
a sports show, as a sports panel show, it asked
about uh seven months. It was a live studio show,
and as part of the hype machine for it, they
took these very airbrushed photographs and I've never looked better.
You know that was your peak that I peaked there. Yes, well,
(04:17):
they they photoshopped me. They gave me extra chin, they
gave me pectorals, my glasses were improved. Yeah. That there's
very little of actual me and that head shot. So
you're a sports guy, that's true. I am a sportswriter
by trade. I worked primarily at the Wall Street Journal.
That is my big job, and it's where the four
(04:41):
one k is benefits. That's where the town car outside
waiting to pick me up is. Yeah, I'm just kidding
about that. It's on the subway like everybody else, just
like build a bath in Bloomberg before him um and
importantly in Germaine for this podcast. Yeah you are what? Yes?
I am a father. I have two children, have a
(05:02):
son named Jesse who was five, soon to be six,
and a daughter named Jojo who was three, soon to
be four. They're they're terrible children, but we're keeping them.
Is Jojo her given name or the nickname? It is not,
you have detected properly. It is a nickname. Her real
name is Josie. Jojo was a um shortened version that
(05:22):
her brother gave to her, So it's stuck. We like
Jojo Gay. I mean that is a wild name, right.
I always think great things are going to come from
Jojo Jojo Gay. I mean, like you know you might
think this way too. I mean I think in terms
of byelines, what's that byline gonna like? And Jojoe Gay?
I mean I feel like she's like fifty yards down
the field already with that name sports reference. Yeah. Something
(05:45):
you should know about me before we really get into
this is I am not a sports guy whatsoever, and
I don't understand that many sports and um, so when
you make sports references, please just let me know what
you're talking about. Well, good news for you is that
if you want to be in sports media, you don't
really need to know about sports either. So you know
(06:07):
you're fit right in. But you do, and you've you've
been interested in sports your whole life or a little bit.
You know. I grew up, you know, in a sporty town,
did all the visual stuff. I grew up in Massachusetts
in a leafy town called Belmont. Yeah, is sporty, soccer, basketball, baseball.
Um brother was much more athletically gifted. My father was
(06:30):
a high school tennis coach in the city of Cambridge, Massachusetts, UH,
for forty years. So I grew up around that. Um,
but you know I was I was never gonna go pro.
You know, it's not happening for me. So you know,
my only ticket to sitting anywhere near professional athletics was
with the laptop. Let's get this, dude, on the phone.
(06:52):
I was going, Dad, how about you? This is Joshua
David Stein and I'm joined by Jason. How are you
Jason's something and Hi guys, my older daughter is uh yeah,
she's three and a half. And then I got a
new born, so I got some time on that. But
you know that will get the first one through first.
And um, you know nothing, these are these are and
(07:13):
for the listeners so they'll be clear. This is a
private school we're looking at. And um, if you can
be so lucky, sure do it. And if not, find
the best public school you can find. But we do
the best we can. You know, hopefully we can continue
to sender the private school that if that's what happens.
But I went to public, public school and I turned
out okay at it. You know, I'm not that bad.
I went to South Carolina. I wasn't which it was
(07:34):
at the time. I gotta tell you it was one
of the worst um states in the country in terms
of education, and the county I was in was probably
one of the worst in that state. So that I
always joked, I'm probably from the dumbest place in the
entire planet. You know, it's it's it's like, that's how
bad I felt like my education UM could be or
(07:54):
might have been. UM depends on how much you you know,
you get out of it. I mean, you know, you
kind of get out what you put in. But but
in some ways, I think I'm lucky, you know, I was.
I was a gifted student. But it's all relative because
I mean, I don't know how that really translates, you know,
to everything else in the world, you know what I mean,
How does that shape your decisions about kids in schooling though?
(08:15):
Because on one hand, you're like, oh, you obviously recognize
the you know, how great it would be to have
an excellent education. On the other hand, you might have
the opinion, well, it doesn't really matter because look it
worked out for me. Oh no, I'm honest. People that goes,
you know, I'm not. I mean people something to me.
People who believe that they're one there, they're the anomaly there.
(08:37):
People who are the anomaly, who are the exception to
the rule, who actually try to sell other people that
they're special. I hate I hate that because I don't
believe that for one second. I don't believe it for
one second. I believe once you achieve success and you
know you can look at yourself and go, I did
it all, and you can forget about everybody is around you,
and you can discount all the chances of luck that
(08:59):
probably played into it. Where you go to school, who
helped you out. I'm one of the people that I
do believe your product of your environment more so than anything.
Of course, an exception to the rule. But if you
give me a kid nine times out attend, and you
put him in a greade school with a great family
and a great upbringing, all this stuff versus a kid
who's gonna be put into the worst upbringing, the worse scenario.
Sure that kid may may may succeed. The kid that
(09:21):
who's put into the bac scenario, they may succeed. But
I'm gonna bet on the other kid. If I'm if
you're talking percentages here, nine times I attend, the other
kid's gonna do better. And I don't want to hear
about expence of the rule. If you were to tell
me about the exception to the rule, you want to
put your kid into that exception, then go ahead. If
you want to set your kid up for failure and
hope that they think that's your that's your thing. I'm
trying to do the best I can for the kid
because I don't believe that you know that that's the
(09:43):
way you should do things. I think everybody should have
the same opportunities, even playing field that where you know
who's who's who's really um an achiever, mom and dad
always looking up where you know what I mean? You know,
you're absolutely right. There is this sort of like exceptional
as a myth that happens in this country where people
think that because they got somewhere, they got there on
their own merit entirely, and they won't acknowledge any kind
(10:03):
of like luck or privilege. There's a sports metaphor for this,
isn't there right? People who are born on third burn
on third base? Yeah, um oh yeah yeah wow. I
never heard that, Yeah, barn on third base and think
they hit a triple. I think that's I love that.
I gotta use that one. But I think that these
(10:24):
conversations about happening at a younger age are really good
because you know, we see it all the time now
in our national conversation or national argument. More seems like
that people just feel like, you know, by virtue where
they're standing, it's only on the basis of their own merit.
The only people that have to buy into that to
sleep at night or poor people. Let's be honest that
if you don't buy into that, it is a horrible
(10:46):
thing to go to sleep and know that you're that
you're that your child in set up failure in that
unless you can find a way to get them that
that's you know, we have to buy these these things
that and I don't want people to you know, be
bamboos with you know, we should have an even blame
feel How much do you want to communicate and um,
tell your kids about you know, your experience growing up
in South Carolina. How important is it for you to
(11:09):
let them know. I guess you could say how good
they got it? I think, um, I think it's important
to try to always beat it into them because I
think if this around them, let's just literally let's just guys, listeners,
listeners eating. If we're not we're not beating anyone any
no one's been being beat. Um. I think it's it's
(11:31):
important to sort of reiterate and to expose them to
things that they may not have known about their parents,
especially their parents came from a meager beginnings um, because otherwise,
you know, I got to find a way to get
to foster character. You know, I want to get her
a job. I wanted her to do things. I wanted
to struggle a little bit. I want them to have
to earn some things. So however I can get infused
(11:53):
them with character because I didn't have to, I didn't
need it. Cut I had jobs after jobs, I mean,
cutting grass, mowing lawns, UM, working at fish markets, working
at vendors and get games, UM working bagging groceries, UM,
aerating lawns, landscaping. I mean, you you name the job
I did it. I couldn't, so there's no I got
plenty of characters, So I'm good with that. I just
(12:14):
gotta figure out for them how to make sure that
if if things go well, and they continue to go well,
they don't think that this is how life works. You know.
I gotta take it back home to South Carolina where
I'm from. Um, I used to live on a dirt road.
They finally paved it about eight years ago. So now
the dirt road's gone. That would have been nice to
show the dirt road that that's not gonna be there. Um. So,
and I you know, so I gotta find ways to
make sure that they know that the world is not
(12:36):
normally this uh, this glittered with um with with gold
in the sense like you know, waking up having a
variety of things to eat in the pantry that just
you know, like having you know, that's that's a weird thing.
We didn't have a variety of things, you know. I
pretty much the same things every morning. It's actually it
was either a Bologney sandwich or like a bowl of cereal.
(12:58):
And depending on which did it was, it was like Daddy,
I want my pan sharkol lot no, no, no, none
of that. I didn't I go up for coffee now,
And I think I mean to them, that's normally gonna
Starbucks because their job. He never went up for coffee.
There was no such thing in going out for coffee.
We made They made coffee and tea at home, and
I literally would take like warm they would toast bread
(13:19):
and you would dip that in there. I think there
was like some British thing can be dipping into tea
and with butter, and so that was it. I mean,
there was no such things. My mom went out for coffee,
doesn't that didn't happen in the childhood of no story,
No Chy, we didn't know what that. I don't know
what that was. Mike, do you find that the side
of parenthood that you know? And I feel the same way.
(13:39):
You want to instill kind of um values in your
child to understand, you know, the advantages that they've had,
especially in comparison to people who came before them, but
also you know, against a very natural, like you know,
tendency of parents to spoil and and say like, oh,
you know, my folks could never do this for me,
but I can. So I want to give them this advantage.
(14:01):
And and how do those things compete against each other
if they did with you? Well, I'll tell anyone, um Um,
I'll say this. I'll say anyone who thinks that it's
not about you, It's not about you trying to have
your kid live the life that you wish you had
when you were a kid, because you're ruining them. The
(14:22):
life you had as a kid is created who you
are and allows you if you're lucky enough to be successful.
That's why you're successful. Don't don't forget that, but to
try to make now, why take all of that and
then go I want to show off with my kids.
Why put all the stuff that you thought you should have.
Your kid is not at all you know, you know
you know that. Yeah, the kid is of you, not
(14:43):
a redo, not a redo. Now some people I suddenly
do that the other way, but they're not successful to
try to live my casity through their kids, and that's
dangerous to either one is probably unhealthy. Um. I'll tell
people this. This happened the last couple of weeks because
I just had a new addition to the family, got
the new daughter. Yeah, her name is Chazelle. So it's
like it's like Chad she a C A C h
(15:07):
A z E L L E. So it's like Chad
L chazell um. And I call Chads or chad Z's
what we call her, um because I like the name Chad.
It gives her option that she's not you can't tell
us male, female, you don't know where she's from general,
and it's kind of cool. So yeah, um, but when
Chads came along, now she's very stute and very smart,
became very difficult all of a sudden because there's a
(15:29):
new addition. And what I realized and what I quickly
realized that we didn't really know how to deal with it.
So I employ implore any parent out there, who who
who who does not have it all together right now,
make sure you take a class, read a book, or
go to a seminar, because I was doing some things
right and some things I was not doing right at all.
That was most mostly because I was winging it. You know,
(15:50):
the parent, this is the hardest job we have, and
we usually don't have any experience for any sort of
like prep for it, Like nobody ever thinks about it,
Like you get a kid. It is the hardest thing
you're gonna have to do in your life. And then
you don't read a book, you don't take a class.
I mean, we do with everything else. We do with driving,
we deal with our jobs, we do with everything else
they're gonna be good at, except parenting. So I went
(16:11):
to the seminar, and I gotta tell you, man, I
took so much, so many notes, and I came back
and what I was able to accomplish in a matter
of two weeks with my daughters, it's amazing. And it's
only because I was able to apply some of the
techniques and things that were tried and true by experts
to my kid, and it makes total sense, it makes
it makes me a better parent, and then my kid,
my kid now is more responsive and loves me even
(16:32):
more than she did before. I'm from shock that what
that that I was? I thought I could do this
without like going to some sort of classes. We read
books and stuff. But you know, I really didn't think
that it was that important to really seek out professional
help about guiding in your your child. What did you
feel like you were doing that you need the most
help with, Well, you've you brought it up, you said,
(16:53):
like spoiling your kid. There's about ten different categories of
parenting and and all of us falls are one of them,
if not more than one of them, and one of
them a link. One of them is giving in too much.
One of them is too much attention. When they fall,
like you, you you nurture them too much. The others
are like you know, you're you're the yes parent. You
don't want conflict. You always give them what they want
because it feels better than having them argue with you
(17:14):
or having to have any sort of resistance. Um, you know,
the helicopter parent, the lawnmower parent, people who go a
hand the kid and try to get out rid of
all of the of the um of the stuff that
could possibly hinder their child. They try to go and
do that before the kid even gets there. I mean,
there's so many levels to bad parenting that you know
you can't even imagine. Um, But I'm asking about you specifically, me,
(17:40):
me specifically. Well, I'll tell you I was the I
was a Joe Sergeant parent. I was I was doing
the Joel Sergeant parent. And I think I'm actually going
a post months ago about it. Um my voice, having
this big voice, learning to make sure I use it
and temperate, because I don't want to make sure that
she thinks that this is normal two people for people
to yell, I don't yell lot, but having a big voice,
(18:01):
it's it's it's almost like gal because for me, if
I say something very very you know, like I've raised
my voices a little bit and I just I just
make it makes that much more of an emphasis or
an impact on her. So I have to sort of
understand that I have to use the words and really
don't really don't don't. I don't want to frighten my
kid with my voice. What I'm trying to say. So
the drill started. The thing that I was doing was
(18:22):
just basically, there's no no nonsense kind of thing. Do
this or else, do this or else, you know, like,
you know, not really communicating with her. She's a very
smart kid. Just talking to her, tell her exactly because
she'll listen. You know, you get about two or three
sentences with a three year old if they're smart, in
which they'll pay you attention. After that they'll tune you out.
And I learned you have to say that you want
(18:43):
the first three sentences and just make it efficient and
then they'll get it. See, this is what I want
you to do. And if you don't do this, this
is what's gonna happen in the world. That is it.
That is it. That's all you got, what you want,
what's gonna happen they don't do it, and that's you know,
and the stuff, like I guess, it's really all you have. Hey, Mike,
(19:04):
I'm punching this in after you hung up, But let's
hear from our sponsors. Mike. Let me ask you about
co parenting, which is an ongoing theme in my own home.
(19:27):
Does include that my home includes a three year old
daughter as well, um my wife feels that we need
to be on the same page, that if I have
an alternative parenting style to hers, it will be disastrous
for the upbringing of the children. I feel like, well,
you know, I think of it like, you know, to
use another sports term, you know, it's like an offensive
(19:48):
and a defensive coordinator. Here. You know, we can have like,
you know, a little different playing styles often. You know,
for my wife and I are trading off. But she
feels much more strongly than I to do that that
you've got to be on the same page or else
the kids are just going to run wild over you.
Oh yeah, Well, the thing is, I think it's like
it's the bide and conquer. I mean, I think she's
(20:09):
right to to a certain degree. You know, one person
usually defers to the other in some way, shape or
form the parenting. Like if I'm home less, have I
come in, Like recently, I have been home so more,
which which is great, especially now the baby's here. Um,
before I wasn't home as much, so I would defer
to her. I basically if Noles would ask me something,
I would basically kind of let me talk to your
(20:30):
mom or what did your mom say? I'm home now?
So I'm leading the charge. I established what I want
and now she asked me, what did your dad saying,
which is it feels great because I feel like I'm
actually doing more um now and I like that. I
like that having that hands on because if i'm you know,
I leave again, I'm doing the best I can right
now to make this connection with my kids. So I
think you do have to be in the same page
(20:52):
because the kids will try and figure out who will
give them what they want. If you if you show weakness,
then you're in trouble. One you decide that you're gonna
give her something that mom said, now you're gonna Actually
it's not a backfire. And I've seen it with our situation.
Me and my wife on the same page, and the
nanny is a little behind, and nanny used to be
the favorite person in the house. Now that the nanny
(21:13):
is behind and not the same page, and she sort
of gives into my daughter. My daughter respects her less
and she will take advantage of that and she will
not listen to her and she will shop a challenge
her and I see it. So you have to be
on the same page. But it's a pretty large page.
It's a very large page, and the page just basically
goes whatever has been established and said, follow through with that.
And and but what's great about what I learned is
(21:36):
that you break your child because your child's like three, right.
The great thing about it, and this is help was
very helpful breaking the day up into three quarters so
you don't the child doesn't have to be successful for
all of the day, And that's great. I just realized
that that that helped a lot. Having my daughter have
a successful quarter is much is much more effective than
trying to have her be successful the entire day, because
(21:56):
she will fail. She will make mistakes, and when she does,
now I gotta either hold to the you know, hold
her to the fire, or or give in. So how
do I do that? So I realized, if I just
get her short little increment of time to succeed, if
she does well, I can reward her. I can get
her yes, you've done this well. And she fails a
couple of times, she gets to do over. Eventually like
(22:17):
I like, I'll say, you didn't do this, so now
you can't have this because you said you were gonna
do and you didn't do that. Now she has not
gotten that and she can't have that, but in a
couple of hours, in the other phase of the day,
which comes after her nap, she can start over. Now
she can maybe get that thing against if she can
do these other things, so she has a chance to
fail and succeed and not have to hold you know.
(22:38):
And it's and it's good because they can't remember what
they didn't talk in the morning to like that. I
remember so. Um. One of the reasons where before you
came on, we were talking about superheroes. And one of
the things that I'm so interested in asking you because
of your unique um, you know, your personal story and
also your professional life is about parents as superheroes. And Jason,
(23:01):
you're talking about it too. It's like when you're a kid,
you kind of see your parents. At least I saw, well,
I can't lie my dad was not a hero. But um,
but there's a tendency to see, you know, parents and superheroes.
And now I have a I have a five. What
do I have? I have a five and a six
year old, and I'm very aware of trying to lift
(23:26):
the curtain a little to let them see that I
am struggling as a dad. You know, it's not perfect
that sometimes I struggle with sadness or I struggle with anger,
And I wonder if someone you know, like you said,
your voice is something you carry with you professionally into
your personal life. And how much with your daughter, how
much with your family do you show the weakness is
(23:51):
a show like hut? So yeah, well, I think I
think you have to have a sort of unified front
in front of the child to certainly agree for a
little while. I mean, he's three. I don't think you know.
I think she's able. Her her emotions are all over
the place. For the most part, she's pretty good until
she can't. She doesn't get addressed, so she's not as
stable as most people. When I when I see when
(24:12):
I when I when her, when she sees me. I
want her to at least I think for now that
dad stuff is together, even with that stuff as because
because we all know, emotions are too complex and sometimes explain,
and my daughter is very smart. She talks and articulates
her feelings very well, and sometimes people just tell her
you know, um, so until you know Dad's not feeling
(24:33):
well a day because it does or her mommy is
not feeling well because of that. But very rarely do
we really do that because ultimately, you know, emotions are
still complex for her age, and what we're working on
right now with her, and it's until she's probably like five,
is emotional intelligence is pretty much all we're trying to
work on right now because everything else, you know, we're
working on other stuff, numbers and the letters, but the
(24:53):
emotionals on intelligence has become the biggest part of her
journey now because what I was told and I'm hope
mean that this is this will transcend to her. You know,
you want to read a likable kid, And I was like, well,
I didn't really think about that. They won't you a
realy a likable kid because it's going to fall them
the rest of their life and they're not likable as
a kid, they probably won't be likable as an adult.
(25:14):
No one will invite them the parties. No one won't
want to hang out with them, No one want to
be around them because they don't have good you know,
social glass, just social skills. So when I when I
when I when, I try to keep my emotions at
an even teal because when you're all over the place
and you and especially not you know, I didn't realize this.
But if you're volatile, if you argue in front of
your kid, if you raise your voice a lot, if
(25:35):
you if you cry a lot, if you if you
just what if you do, it rubs off on them.
So if you can sort of be even keel, they
can process things better because they they they'll still process it,
but they won't outwardly demonstrate it. And this is no
good for actors. I mean, actors are supposed to be
all over the place, but as a child, you have
to sort of try to bring into society. It's you know,
(25:56):
as an artist, this is all great. You know, my
teachers like tids are the best actors because they always
do what they feel. And then they have no sensors,
you know, they have not They just do and that's great.
But we're trying to raise, you know, good individuals that
can conform society. And so I'm trying to find a
way to make sure that she has a chance to
develop a little bit before she is exposed to emotions. UM.
(26:19):
And I don't think anytime should I be showing her um,
should I be showing her certain emotions because ultimately she
needs to be able to process them. And if you
can sort of keep her in that that that zone.
I think it's better for her, not too high, not
too low. Mike, I can't imagine that you're three and
a half year old. I'm sure she's quite smart, is
fully aware of what her father does for a living. Uh,
(26:40):
And have you given that some thought about what that
will be like when your children know that you're in
public life and not just in public life, like in
a public life that their friends get to see at
school and all that. You know, it just depends. I've
learned that. You know, it's about demographics right now, like
she is three and a half year before, you know,
(27:02):
unless I'm doing Disney stuff like Disney like stuff that
her friends are gonna be watching, they probably I'm dealing
with their parents at this point, the parents. So that's it.
So I don't know that I'll ever be, you know,
I don't know. I don't know will I ever be
in the situation where my stuff is stuff that her
friends will watch, because it's the age disparity of the
(27:23):
age difference there, so um, that actually might work up
my benefit and by chance, if it does start a
cross over, because I feel like at this point, she'll
always it will always be like, you know, older people
telling her about her father, but not necessarily her friends.
And if it does come to a point where her
friends are actually aware of flo him and stuff like that,
I don't think it's gonna make much a difference because
(27:44):
I think, ultimately, I don't think kids really um kids
really take it too seriously because if you're if you're
around your kid all the time, you're just dad. You
just you're just dad. Seen you on a screen yet though,
Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah, she's seen me, and she
and she gets excited. She talked to like, what's going
on with what's that doing? My my wife will ever
(28:05):
watch UM, will let her watch UM me on talk shows?
Do you think in terms of time management this is
gonna sound paradoxical, but I felt since having children that
I've become a better worker because I don't have screw
around time anymore. There's no like room for like just
sitting on the catch and doing nothing, which was a
(28:25):
significant part of my twenties. Um, and I've become a
better but you know, I'm just you know, I don't
have time to mess around. Do you feel that already?
Oh yeah? PlayStation went in the box years ago. Video game.
That's just you know, that just doesn't help. Man. You know,
people always old with movies. I kind of time to
(28:45):
go up, don't movie? What are you talking about? I
catched on a plane. I can set on a plane
or a hotel room from my hand held advice. And
I'm away working family, you know, home. But I mean
I did. If you have all the cool piece enough
to spare time to just do stuff that you normally
would have done, it didn't exist anymore. And that's coming
from the man from Netflix. And it's not like it
(29:09):
used to be. Like I'll be honest, I mean I
just I just binged um, you know, botting me stop.
But he was on the deuce. I just ped that
and took that created the banding that I watched that
in a time where I was the bottle feeding my newborn,
um watching her trying to put her down, like if
she take a little while go down or um at
night where I got to bed, and you know, like
literally I'm in the band. I'm watching a little episode
if I go little bit, so I'm not done like
(29:30):
three three or four days. But I mean, you know,
and I haven't seen anything in a while now, so
you don't have as much time as you used to have.
That's what your bottle feeding is peak binge viewing, you
know for me, like, man, I just I mowed through
stuff and I had the bottle feed my kids. I watched. Yeah,
that was my max television consumption moment. I feel like
(29:53):
I was like making those bottles feeders for men when
they actually remember the meet the poppers had both really horrible,
because that's that would be really useful, so useful. Just kids.
You know, my newborn does think sometimes if she's looking
for do you have you do you have big packs?
(30:13):
I will say. My daughter's like dat booby shoot another techno.
Your breast pets are big, Like why is big? You're
like bench pressing. They are the most candid human beings alive.
They're bad breath detectors, like it's going on. Yeah, I
kissed Argue this morning and he looks at me. He goes, sorry,
(30:35):
he's fine, he got sorry, dad, bad breath just giving
your kids, give me a break. He could let us
slide exactly. Oh good point, Mike, But hold that thought,
because I want to hear from people who want to
sell our listeners things. Mike, let me ask you another thing.
(31:00):
You know, Joshua deals with this in his private life.
But you know, you are a recognizable person. So when
you were out with your family and you know, you
go to Chuck E Cheese or disney World or wherever
else the hand of the family decides to go, Um,
there are gonna be people are gonna ask for selfies
and so on, and you know, I want to chat
(31:20):
you up. And you know, I don't know how you
draw those kinds of lines. You know, it's probably different
when you're on your own or you know, in a
professional environment versus with your family, because you want to
protect that family. Part two. Yeah, I mean it, it's
touching go. I mean there's times, you know, disney Land,
I don't. I don't. I don't do that. I don't
entertain it disney Land because you know, the Reasland. I'm
like I and I was wearing hat and cheese. I
(31:41):
usually grow my beard out pretty good, and I was
find that if I'm not walking on a lot of people,
I think people usually don't tend to think that's me
anyway they go when would he wouldn't be walking around here?
Like why he that? You know? And so I think
that happened a lot. So I tend to, I think
the less you try to do to uh, to protect
yourself sometimes it makes it actually easier to go on
(32:03):
and notice if you just if you know what I mean, like,
the less you're trying to make a big deal out
of I tend to just like I said, you know
where shades had and I just you know, keep quiet
and I just move about very very quietly my daughter
and kids, and they do recognize me. I'll get me
not out of stuff. And I don't do do it
where places where I know if I do, it is
going to continue. And for the most part, people give
(32:24):
me a break when you would be with my kids.
I used to kids my chid up from the hold
them and I'm like, I'm like, like my kids, I
usually you usually leave it on to go. Well, you know,
some people don't. But you know, for the most things,
they thought, oh he's rich his kids, you know, and
don't go And if they don't, I was just I
was just poking my kids. I shile, I'm wrong. Sorry,
you got my kids, you know, like a kid, you know. Mike,
Can I throw in one last question because you do
(32:45):
have one of the great artists of voices. Which is
what's your go to book right now for reading to
your children? Oh? Wow, there's um is it? Um? Marina
the Ballerina. I think it is in the Ballerina Marina,
but I think it's Marina Martina the Ballerina as Martina
Marina Martina, that's my wife and Martina the Mallerina. Um.
(33:08):
It's a book that actually I think the been the
film with Jamie Bill called Skin. One of the producer's wife,
right wrote that children's book and talking about you know
that at dinner time and he gave me a Martini
autograph copy of it. And I'm always looking for new books,
um to to to read to her. So that's one.
The giving treaty I think is a great one. Yeah, class, Yeah,
(33:31):
that's a good one, yeah, I think. And then it
is the Curious George Books. But I gotta tell you
now that I'm reading reading those books to her, I
feel weird because it's always about this little monkey getting
in the trumpet I bought. Why am I reading this
book to her about doing stuff that somebody said not
to do and then he gets rewarded for it. This
makes no sense. I mean also there's a ugly colonial
underpinning of curious. Well, well, of course there and and
(33:54):
and and I told him if that once we got
the things, and I go, you know what, this is
probably not a great ide you, but we're going to
just finish this stuff and they would have thrown aways
and she won't notice. But yeah, there's this opinion. There's
no question about it. Well, thanks man, thank you very much.
Thank your point, and thank your point now not even worse,
but thanks you. Oh my god, Cala, thank you. I
(34:21):
can't tell impressive. Who has a more impressive voice culture.
I would like to rent that voice just for a week,
you know, like you know, I I sound like I'm like,
I don't know, like a character who should be in
like a mop commercial or something like that, you know,
but I want the gravitas of that voice. I would
love to hear your own unique gravitas. But don't you
(34:46):
want to hear Mike do like good Night Moon? I mean,
come on, I think he could make a killion audiobooks.
He really could really want Okay, fine, whatever you say, Yeah, alright,
I don't even need to see the rabbit. Um well
was I thought it was? I mean, I didn't know
if I was hoping that he would say, yeah, I
let my daughter see me cry. I think that would
(35:07):
make me feel better about myself letting my kids see
me cry. But I think he brought up a good
point that um kids need to be developmentally it needs
to be developmentally appropriate for them to see their parents
in a sort of extreme emotional state or you know,
not not as even keeled. Also, parental interviews should be
(35:30):
like longitudinal, don't you think, like, don't you want to
check in with four years? Next episode? Four years? When
you know, let's see how the you know, Mike's you know,
stringe and approached the parenting, which sounds awesome, you mean
the same page conversation. Well, it works out in a
practical context, because that's the hard part I find a parenting.
(35:53):
I can come up with all kinds of theories about
what I think is right, but you know, putting it
into real uses, that's where I suffer. Yeah, I feel
like the process of parenting is adopting strategies and then
letting them go. Adopting and letting go and not really
beating yourself up so much when you do inevitably let
it go and basically at the end of the day,
you're just gonna be. I think, although maybe this is cynical,
(36:15):
you're gonna be. There's not that wide of a range
of parenting that you can change, you know, but you
can get a little right. It's like, yeah, I also
love the idea. Can you imagine like you're you're leading
some parenting seminar, You've put up a few flyers around
the neighborhood, and all of a sudden, Luke Cage shows
up at your parenting seminar. I mean, how about that?
(36:37):
Though it's la so it's probably like Luke Cage and
the guy from Burne noticed they're all Matthew reaes Um.
I thought the part the fact that he needs to
be conscious of his voice at home also really struck me.
Not that I am professionally a voiceover artistle that you
(36:57):
couldn't tell from this podcast, but I do find that
being conscious of my own tone of voice with my
kids is a constant challenge because I do have a
tendency I think like him to be really stern or
to come across as much angrier than I actually feel.
But it's just like, oh, this is a voice you're
supposed to do when you say, you know, stop yelling
(37:20):
the word penis. You know, like, and you know your
kids are a little older than mine, but we're still
on the kind of you know, we have to wind
them down at the end of the night, which means
lowering your voice and not being as expressive. And my
wife is actually scolded me for being too demonstrative reading
(37:40):
books to them. She's like, you don't have to act
it out. They need to go to sleep. They're gonna
get dragons low dragons, sort of tacos. You know. Yeah,
I've been I've I've been reprimanded for you know, taking
a more activist approach to the bedtime reading. Uh. Yeah,
we're we're we're in the hellscape of late bedtimes right now. Well, Jason,
(38:05):
I enjoy talking to you. I enjoyed talking to Mike,
and uh, I guess that's it for this episode. You
can say that you enjoyed talking to Mike more than me.
I'm not going to take it personal, did I Well,
his phone line was a little bit crackle. Yeah, but
he is more famous, and he has that's I mean,
it's like not a better voice, it's an exponentially better
(38:25):
voice than this one. I don't, but I'm gonna work
on it. I'm gonna take up a three pack a
day cigarette habit. Now, I think you should just episode
you're going to not even recognize that. You should always
talk like you're putting people to bed. That's it, that's it,
that's it, and then you know by episode three, I'm
gonna sound like Tom Waits. Well, that's it for the
(38:57):
Fatherly Podcast. This episode jouring us next week when we're
talking to Matthias Jiro, who is He does some crazy
ship jumping off cliffs and he has a kid. I'm
curious about that he has. I'll hit it cliff recently
um jumping off of it. And David Chef, who wrote
a Beautiful Boy. He has a new book out with
his son called Hi. My name is Joshua David Stein.
(39:19):
I am your host of the Fatherly Podcast. This program
was produced by Max Savage Levinson. Hey Max, this guy?
What's your name? Jesse Shank Schultz. Jesse Schultz engineered it.
Andrew Berman is our executive producer. Oh yeah, our hotline
is a seven through two number. That's Jersey. It's seven
(39:39):
through two four one six four five seven one. Why
would you call it? You would call it if you're
struggling with any issues as a dad, or you want answers,
or you want us to ask questions again, it's seven
three two four one six four five seven one. Subscribe
on our Heart Radio and have great week. The bost
Welcome to the Fatherly Podcast. I am your host, Joshua
David Stein, and I'm joined for the first time by
my co host, currently checking his email on his phone.
Responding on email, it's even worse. It's worse, Jason Kay, Hey, Jason, Hey,
hold on. Check. As I just said, all right, there
(00:35):
I go. Today, we'll be talking to a real life superhero.
Luke Cage, a k humanities my culture. That's how he
walked around. It's like, Hi, I'm humanity, is my culture
also put in some tank like an exotic fish, came
up with abilities. I just want to be left the
(00:57):
hell alone. It's true, we'll be talking to my culture.
The actor, who is perhaps best known for playing uh
Luke Cage on Netflix is unfortunately just canceled here is strangely,
and we'll get into he is also a father. As
we'll get into. He has two daughters, one who's quite new.
He's portrayed in the arts as this like bulletproof guy
(01:20):
and then him doing push ups with his daughter on
his back and posting like ridiculous amounts of baby. You know,
and I wanted and I want to to well, like
I said, I'm just obsessed. I mean there's no I
could try to like shroud out in some other um
(01:41):
conceptual ship, but that's not true. He always, as far
as I can tell, portrays really strong characters. And there's
something about his voice which I'm eager to hear. I
r L very low and his persona certainly is sort
of invincible. And in fact, Luke Cage's bulletproof. And I'm
curious how much he keeps that up, how much that
(02:04):
is true in his personal life with his daughter. I mean,
I don't know, this is your experience, but I also,
as a father struggle a little bit with how much
to raise a curtain in front of my own kids,
to show them my own emotional struggles, my own vulnerabilities,
my uh my emotions, you know. And I'm curious what
(02:28):
his as as you said, he is the closest thing
you and I have to a superhero. What his experiences
as well, how much to let the children behind the
curtain of the real Joshua. There's a little wizard of
Hams back they're going, it's like pulling levers. You're grounded.
(02:48):
My heart's broken. You're grounded, deep seated insecurity. Welcome to
the Fatherly Podcast. I hope you'll enjoy this show. Jason, Um,
(03:14):
I know a little bit about you. One of the
things I admire most is your Wikipedia head shot. Oh thanks, yeah,
but tell me a little bit more about Well, I'll
just for the listener at home. He's in the head shot.
At least he swave clean cut, in a suit, I
think with glasses. Uh, in studio, he is I look
(03:35):
like the after shot. That the after Now it's like
you know, I've I've fallen on hard times. That photo
was taken because a handful of years ago, now five
years ago, I was on a very short lived television
show with Regis Philpin called Crowd Goes Wild. It was
(03:56):
a sports show, as a sports panel show, it asked
about uh seven months. It was a live studio show,
and as part of the hype machine for it, they
took these very airbrushed photographs and I've never looked better.
You know that was your peak that I peaked there. Yes, well,
(04:17):
they they photoshopped me. They gave me extra chin, they
gave me pectorals, my glasses were improved. Yeah. That there's
very little of actual me and that head shot. So
you're a sports guy, that's true. I am a sportswriter
by trade. I worked primarily at the Wall Street Journal.
That is my big job, and it's where the four
(04:41):
one k is benefits. That's where the town car outside
waiting to pick me up is. Yeah, I'm just kidding
about that. It's on the subway like everybody else, just
like build a bath in Bloomberg before him um and
importantly in Germaine for this podcast. Yeah you are what? Yes?
I am a father. I have two children, have a
(05:02):
son named Jesse who was five, soon to be six,
and a daughter named Jojo who was three, soon to
be four. They're they're terrible children, but we're keeping them.
Is Jojo her given name or the nickname? It is not,
you have detected properly. It is a nickname. Her real
name is Josie. Jojo was a um shortened version that
(05:22):
her brother gave to her, So it's stuck. We like
Jojo Gay. I mean that is a wild name, right.
I always think great things are going to come from
Jojo Jojo Gay. I mean, like you know you might
think this way too. I mean I think in terms
of byelines, what's that byline gonna like? And Jojoe Gay?
I mean I feel like she's like fifty yards down
the field already with that name sports reference. Yeah. Something
(05:45):
you should know about me before we really get into
this is I am not a sports guy whatsoever, and
I don't understand that many sports and um, so when
you make sports references, please just let me know what
you're talking about. Well, good news for you is that
if you want to be in sports media, you don't
really need to know about sports either. So you know
(06:07):
you're fit right in. But you do, and you've you've
been interested in sports your whole life or a little bit.
You know. I grew up, you know, in a sporty town,
did all the visual stuff. I grew up in Massachusetts
in a leafy town called Belmont. Yeah, is sporty, soccer, basketball, baseball.
Um brother was much more athletically gifted. My father was
(06:30):
a high school tennis coach in the city of Cambridge, Massachusetts, UH,
for forty years. So I grew up around that. Um,
but you know I was I was never gonna go pro.
You know, it's not happening for me. So you know,
my only ticket to sitting anywhere near professional athletics was
with the laptop. Let's get this, dude, on the phone.
(06:52):
I was going, Dad, how about you? This is Joshua
David Stein and I'm joined by Jason. How are you
Jason's something and Hi guys, my older daughter is uh yeah,
she's three and a half. And then I got a
new born, so I got some time on that. But
you know that will get the first one through first.
And um, you know nothing, these are these are and
(07:13):
for the listeners so they'll be clear. This is a
private school we're looking at. And um, if you can
be so lucky, sure do it. And if not, find
the best public school you can find. But we do
the best we can. You know, hopefully we can continue
to sender the private school that if that's what happens.
But I went to public, public school and I turned
out okay at it. You know, I'm not that bad.
I went to South Carolina. I wasn't which it was
(07:34):
at the time. I gotta tell you it was one
of the worst um states in the country in terms
of education, and the county I was in was probably
one of the worst in that state. So that I
always joked, I'm probably from the dumbest place in the
entire planet. You know, it's it's it's like, that's how
bad I felt like my education UM could be or
(07:54):
might have been. UM depends on how much you you know,
you get out of it. I mean, you know, you
kind of get out what you put in. But but
in some ways, I think I'm lucky, you know, I was.
I was a gifted student. But it's all relative because
I mean, I don't know how that really translates, you know,
to everything else in the world, you know what I mean,
How does that shape your decisions about kids in schooling though?
(08:15):
Because on one hand, you're like, oh, you obviously recognize
the you know, how great it would be to have
an excellent education. On the other hand, you might have
the opinion, well, it doesn't really matter because look it
worked out for me. Oh no, I'm honest. People that goes,
you know, I'm not. I mean people something to me.
People who believe that they're one there, they're the anomaly there.
(08:37):
People who are the anomaly, who are the exception to
the rule, who actually try to sell other people that
they're special. I hate I hate that because I don't
believe that for one second. I don't believe it for
one second. I believe once you achieve success and you
know you can look at yourself and go, I did
it all, and you can forget about everybody is around you,
and you can discount all the chances of luck that
(08:59):
probably played into it. Where you go to school, who
helped you out. I'm one of the people that I
do believe your product of your environment more so than anything.
Of course, an exception to the rule. But if you
give me a kid nine times out attend, and you
put him in a greade school with a great family
and a great upbringing, all this stuff versus a kid
who's gonna be put into the worst upbringing, the worse scenario.
Sure that kid may may may succeed. The kid that
(09:21):
who's put into the bac scenario, they may succeed. But
I'm gonna bet on the other kid. If I'm if
you're talking percentages here, nine times I attend, the other
kid's gonna do better. And I don't want to hear
about expence of the rule. If you were to tell
me about the exception to the rule, you want to
put your kid into that exception, then go ahead. If
you want to set your kid up for failure and
hope that they think that's your that's your thing. I'm
trying to do the best I can for the kid
because I don't believe that you know that that's the
(09:43):
way you should do things. I think everybody should have
the same opportunities, even playing field that where you know
who's who's who's really um an achiever, mom and dad
always looking up where you know what I mean? You know,
you're absolutely right. There is this sort of like exceptional
as a myth that happens in this country where people
think that because they got somewhere, they got there on
their own merit entirely, and they won't acknowledge any kind
(10:03):
of like luck or privilege. There's a sports metaphor for this,
isn't there right? People who are born on third burn
on third base? Yeah, um oh yeah yeah wow. I
never heard that, Yeah, barn on third base and think
they hit a triple. I think that's I love that.
I gotta use that one. But I think that these
(10:24):
conversations about happening at a younger age are really good
because you know, we see it all the time now
in our national conversation or national argument. More seems like
that people just feel like, you know, by virtue where
they're standing, it's only on the basis of their own merit.
The only people that have to buy into that to
sleep at night or poor people. Let's be honest that
if you don't buy into that, it is a horrible
(10:46):
thing to go to sleep and know that you're that
you're that your child in set up failure in that
unless you can find a way to get them that
that's you know, we have to buy these these things
that and I don't want people to you know, be
bamboos with you know, we should have an even blame
feel How much do you want to communicate and um,
tell your kids about you know, your experience growing up
in South Carolina. How important is it for you to
(11:09):
let them know. I guess you could say how good
they got it? I think, um, I think it's important
to try to always beat it into them because I
think if this around them, let's just literally let's just guys, listeners,
listeners eating. If we're not we're not beating anyone any
no one's been being beat. Um. I think it's it's
(11:31):
important to sort of reiterate and to expose them to
things that they may not have known about their parents,
especially their parents came from a meager beginnings um, because otherwise,
you know, I got to find a way to get
to foster character. You know, I want to get her
a job. I wanted her to do things. I wanted
to struggle a little bit. I want them to have
to earn some things. So however I can get infused
(11:53):
them with character because I didn't have to, I didn't
need it. Cut I had jobs after jobs, I mean,
cutting grass, mowing lawns, UM, working at fish markets, working
at vendors and get games, UM working bagging groceries, UM,
aerating lawns, landscaping. I mean, you you name the job
I did it. I couldn't, so there's no I got
plenty of characters, So I'm good with that. I just
(12:14):
gotta figure out for them how to make sure that
if if things go well, and they continue to go well,
they don't think that this is how life works. You know.
I gotta take it back home to South Carolina where
I'm from. Um, I used to live on a dirt road.
They finally paved it about eight years ago. So now
the dirt road's gone. That would have been nice to
show the dirt road that that's not gonna be there. Um. So,
and I you know, so I gotta find ways to
make sure that they know that the world is not
(12:36):
normally this uh, this glittered with um with with gold
in the sense like you know, waking up having a
variety of things to eat in the pantry that just
you know, like having you know, that's that's a weird thing.
We didn't have a variety of things, you know. I
pretty much the same things every morning. It's actually it
was either a Bologney sandwich or like a bowl of cereal.
(12:58):
And depending on which did it was, it was like Daddy,
I want my pan sharkol lot no, no, no, none
of that. I didn't I go up for coffee now,
And I think I mean to them, that's normally gonna
Starbucks because their job. He never went up for coffee.
There was no such thing in going out for coffee.
We made They made coffee and tea at home, and
I literally would take like warm they would toast bread
(13:19):
and you would dip that in there. I think there
was like some British thing can be dipping into tea
and with butter, and so that was it. I mean,
there was no such things. My mom went out for coffee,
doesn't that didn't happen in the childhood of no story,
No Chy, we didn't know what that. I don't know
what that was. Mike, do you find that the side
of parenthood that you know? And I feel the same way.
(13:39):
You want to instill kind of um values in your
child to understand, you know, the advantages that they've had,
especially in comparison to people who came before them, but
also you know, against a very natural, like you know,
tendency of parents to spoil and and say like, oh,
you know, my folks could never do this for me,
but I can. So I want to give them this advantage.
(14:01):
And and how do those things compete against each other
if they did with you? Well, I'll tell anyone, um Um,
I'll say this. I'll say anyone who thinks that it's
not about you, It's not about you trying to have
your kid live the life that you wish you had
when you were a kid, because you're ruining them. The
(14:22):
life you had as a kid is created who you
are and allows you if you're lucky enough to be successful.
That's why you're successful. Don't don't forget that, but to
try to make now, why take all of that and
then go I want to show off with my kids.
Why put all the stuff that you thought you should have.
Your kid is not at all you know, you know
you know that. Yeah, the kid is of you, not
(14:43):
a redo, not a redo. Now some people I suddenly
do that the other way, but they're not successful to
try to live my casity through their kids, and that's
dangerous to either one is probably unhealthy. Um. I'll tell
people this. This happened the last couple of weeks because
I just had a new addition to the family, got
the new daughter. Yeah, her name is Chazelle. So it's
like it's like Chad she a C A C h
(15:07):
A z E L L E. So it's like Chad
L chazell um. And I call Chads or chad Z's
what we call her, um because I like the name Chad.
It gives her option that she's not you can't tell
us male, female, you don't know where she's from general,
and it's kind of cool. So yeah, um, but when
Chads came along, now she's very stute and very smart,
became very difficult all of a sudden because there's a
(15:29):
new addition. And what I realized and what I quickly
realized that we didn't really know how to deal with it.
So I employ implore any parent out there, who who
who who does not have it all together right now,
make sure you take a class, read a book, or
go to a seminar, because I was doing some things
right and some things I was not doing right at all.
That was most mostly because I was winging it. You know,
(15:50):
the parent, this is the hardest job we have, and
we usually don't have any experience for any sort of
like prep for it, Like nobody ever thinks about it,
Like you get a kid. It is the hardest thing
you're gonna have to do in your life. And then
you don't read a book, you don't take a class.
I mean, we do with everything else. We do with driving,
we deal with our jobs, we do with everything else
they're gonna be good at, except parenting. So I went
(16:11):
to the seminar, and I gotta tell you, man, I
took so much, so many notes, and I came back
and what I was able to accomplish in a matter
of two weeks with my daughters, it's amazing. And it's
only because I was able to apply some of the
techniques and things that were tried and true by experts
to my kid, and it makes total sense, it makes
it makes me a better parent, and then my kid,
my kid now is more responsive and loves me even
(16:32):
more than she did before. I'm from shock that what
that that I was? I thought I could do this
without like going to some sort of classes. We read
books and stuff. But you know, I really didn't think
that it was that important to really seek out professional
help about guiding in your your child. What did you
feel like you were doing that you need the most
help with, Well, you've you brought it up, you said,
(16:53):
like spoiling your kid. There's about ten different categories of
parenting and and all of us falls are one of them,
if not more than one of them, and one of
them a link. One of them is giving in too much.
One of them is too much attention. When they fall,
like you, you you nurture them too much. The others
are like you know, you're you're the yes parent. You
don't want conflict. You always give them what they want
because it feels better than having them argue with you
(17:14):
or having to have any sort of resistance. Um, you know,
the helicopter parent, the lawnmower parent, people who go a
hand the kid and try to get out rid of
all of the of the um of the stuff that
could possibly hinder their child. They try to go and
do that before the kid even gets there. I mean,
there's so many levels to bad parenting that you know
you can't even imagine. Um, But I'm asking about you specifically, me,
(17:40):
me specifically. Well, I'll tell you I was the I
was a Joe Sergeant parent. I was I was doing
the Joel Sergeant parent. And I think I'm actually going
a post months ago about it. Um my voice, having
this big voice, learning to make sure I use it
and temperate, because I don't want to make sure that
she thinks that this is normal two people for people
to yell, I don't yell lot, but having a big voice,
(18:01):
it's it's it's almost like gal because for me, if
I say something very very you know, like I've raised
my voices a little bit and I just I just
make it makes that much more of an emphasis or
an impact on her. So I have to sort of
understand that I have to use the words and really
don't really don't don't. I don't want to frighten my
kid with my voice. What I'm trying to say. So
the drill started. The thing that I was doing was
(18:22):
just basically, there's no no nonsense kind of thing. Do
this or else, do this or else, you know, like,
you know, not really communicating with her. She's a very
smart kid. Just talking to her, tell her exactly because
she'll listen. You know, you get about two or three
sentences with a three year old if they're smart, in
which they'll pay you attention. After that they'll tune you out.
And I learned you have to say that you want
(18:43):
the first three sentences and just make it efficient and
then they'll get it. See, this is what I want
you to do. And if you don't do this, this
is what's gonna happen in the world. That is it.
That is it. That's all you got, what you want,
what's gonna happen they don't do it, and that's you know,
and the stuff, like I guess, it's really all you have. Hey, Mike,
(19:04):
I'm punching this in after you hung up, But let's
hear from our sponsors. Mike. Let me ask you about
co parenting, which is an ongoing theme in my own home.
(19:27):
Does include that my home includes a three year old
daughter as well, um my wife feels that we need
to be on the same page, that if I have
an alternative parenting style to hers, it will be disastrous
for the upbringing of the children. I feel like, well,
you know, I think of it like, you know, to
use another sports term, you know, it's like an offensive
(19:48):
and a defensive coordinator. Here. You know, we can have like,
you know, a little different playing styles often. You know,
for my wife and I are trading off. But she
feels much more strongly than I to do that that
you've got to be on the same page or else
the kids are just going to run wild over you.
Oh yeah, Well, the thing is, I think it's like
it's the bide and conquer. I mean, I think she's
(20:09):
right to to a certain degree. You know, one person
usually defers to the other in some way, shape or
form the parenting. Like if I'm home less, have I
come in, Like recently, I have been home so more,
which which is great, especially now the baby's here. Um,
before I wasn't home as much, so I would defer
to her. I basically if Noles would ask me something,
I would basically kind of let me talk to your
(20:30):
mom or what did your mom say? I'm home now?
So I'm leading the charge. I established what I want
and now she asked me, what did your dad saying,
which is it feels great because I feel like I'm
actually doing more um now and I like that. I
like that having that hands on because if i'm you know,
I leave again, I'm doing the best I can right
now to make this connection with my kids. So I
think you do have to be in the same page
(20:52):
because the kids will try and figure out who will
give them what they want. If you if you show weakness,
then you're in trouble. One you decide that you're gonna
give her something that mom said, now you're gonna Actually
it's not a backfire. And I've seen it with our situation.
Me and my wife on the same page, and the
nanny is a little behind, and nanny used to be
the favorite person in the house. Now that the nanny
(21:13):
is behind and not the same page, and she sort
of gives into my daughter. My daughter respects her less
and she will take advantage of that and she will
not listen to her and she will shop a challenge
her and I see it. So you have to be
on the same page. But it's a pretty large page.
It's a very large page, and the page just basically
goes whatever has been established and said, follow through with that.
And and but what's great about what I learned is
(21:36):
that you break your child because your child's like three, right.
The great thing about it, and this is help was
very helpful breaking the day up into three quarters so
you don't the child doesn't have to be successful for
all of the day, And that's great. I just realized
that that that helped a lot. Having my daughter have
a successful quarter is much is much more effective than
trying to have her be successful the entire day, because
(21:56):
she will fail. She will make mistakes, and when she does,
now I gotta either hold to the you know, hold
her to the fire, or or give in. So how
do I do that? So I realized, if I just
get her short little increment of time to succeed, if
she does well, I can reward her. I can get
her yes, you've done this well. And she fails a
couple of times, she gets to do over. Eventually like
(22:17):
I like, I'll say, you didn't do this, so now
you can't have this because you said you were gonna
do and you didn't do that. Now she has not
gotten that and she can't have that, but in a
couple of hours, in the other phase of the day,
which comes after her nap, she can start over. Now
she can maybe get that thing against if she can
do these other things, so she has a chance to
fail and succeed and not have to hold you know.
(22:38):
And it's and it's good because they can't remember what
they didn't talk in the morning to like that. I
remember so. Um. One of the reasons where before you
came on, we were talking about superheroes. And one of
the things that I'm so interested in asking you because
of your unique um, you know, your personal story and
also your professional life is about parents as superheroes. And Jason,
(23:01):
you're talking about it too. It's like when you're a kid,
you kind of see your parents. At least I saw, well,
I can't lie my dad was not a hero. But um,
but there's a tendency to see, you know, parents and superheroes.
And now I have a I have a five. What
do I have? I have a five and a six
year old, and I'm very aware of trying to lift
(23:26):
the curtain a little to let them see that I
am struggling as a dad. You know, it's not perfect
that sometimes I struggle with sadness or I struggle with anger,
And I wonder if someone you know, like you said,
your voice is something you carry with you professionally into
your personal life. And how much with your daughter, how
much with your family do you show the weakness is
(23:51):
a show like hut? So yeah, well, I think I
think you have to have a sort of unified front
in front of the child to certainly agree for a
little while. I mean, he's three. I don't think you know.
I think she's able. Her her emotions are all over
the place. For the most part, she's pretty good until
she can't. She doesn't get addressed, so she's not as
stable as most people. When I when I see when
(24:12):
I when I when her, when she sees me. I
want her to at least I think for now that
dad stuff is together, even with that stuff as because
because we all know, emotions are too complex and sometimes explain,
and my daughter is very smart. She talks and articulates
her feelings very well, and sometimes people just tell her
you know, um, so until you know Dad's not feeling
(24:33):
well a day because it does or her mommy is
not feeling well because of that. But very rarely do
we really do that because ultimately, you know, emotions are
still complex for her age, and what we're working on
right now with her, and it's until she's probably like five,
is emotional intelligence is pretty much all we're trying to
work on right now because everything else, you know, we're
working on other stuff, numbers and the letters, but the
(24:53):
emotionals on intelligence has become the biggest part of her
journey now because what I was told and I'm hope
mean that this is this will transcend to her. You know,
you want to read a likable kid, And I was like, well,
I didn't really think about that. They won't you a
realy a likable kid because it's going to fall them
the rest of their life and they're not likable as
a kid, they probably won't be likable as an adult.
(25:14):
No one will invite them the parties. No one won't
want to hang out with them, No one want to
be around them because they don't have good you know,
social glass, just social skills. So when I when I
when I when, I try to keep my emotions at
an even teal because when you're all over the place
and you and especially not you know, I didn't realize this.
But if you're volatile, if you argue in front of
your kid, if you raise your voice a lot, if
(25:35):
you if you cry a lot, if you if you
just what if you do, it rubs off on them.
So if you can sort of be even keel, they
can process things better because they they they'll still process it,
but they won't outwardly demonstrate it. And this is no
good for actors. I mean, actors are supposed to be
all over the place, but as a child, you have
to sort of try to bring into society. It's you know,
(25:56):
as an artist, this is all great. You know, my
teachers like tids are the best actors because they always
do what they feel. And then they have no sensors,
you know, they have not They just do and that's great.
But we're trying to raise, you know, good individuals that
can conform society. And so I'm trying to find a
way to make sure that she has a chance to
develop a little bit before she is exposed to emotions. UM.
(26:19):
And I don't think anytime should I be showing her um,
should I be showing her certain emotions because ultimately she
needs to be able to process them. And if you
can sort of keep her in that that that zone.
I think it's better for her, not too high, not
too low. Mike, I can't imagine that you're three and
a half year old. I'm sure she's quite smart, is
fully aware of what her father does for a living. Uh,
(26:40):
And have you given that some thought about what that
will be like when your children know that you're in
public life and not just in public life, like in
a public life that their friends get to see at
school and all that. You know, it just depends. I've
learned that. You know, it's about demographics right now, like
she is three and a half year before, you know,
(27:02):
unless I'm doing Disney stuff like Disney like stuff that
her friends are gonna be watching, they probably I'm dealing
with their parents at this point, the parents. So that's it.
So I don't know that I'll ever be, you know,
I don't know. I don't know will I ever be
in the situation where my stuff is stuff that her
friends will watch, because it's the age disparity of the
(27:23):
age difference there, so um, that actually might work up
my benefit and by chance, if it does start a
cross over, because I feel like at this point, she'll
always it will always be like, you know, older people
telling her about her father, but not necessarily her friends.
And if it does come to a point where her
friends are actually aware of flo him and stuff like that,
I don't think it's gonna make much a difference because
(27:44):
I think, ultimately, I don't think kids really um kids
really take it too seriously because if you're if you're
around your kid all the time, you're just dad. You
just you're just dad. Seen you on a screen yet though,
Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah, she's seen me, and she
and she gets excited. She talked to like, what's going
on with what's that doing? My my wife will ever
(28:05):
watch UM, will let her watch UM me on talk shows?
Do you think in terms of time management this is
gonna sound paradoxical, but I felt since having children that
I've become a better worker because I don't have screw
around time anymore. There's no like room for like just
sitting on the catch and doing nothing, which was a
(28:25):
significant part of my twenties. Um, and I've become a
better but you know, I'm just you know, I don't
have time to mess around. Do you feel that already?
Oh yeah? PlayStation went in the box years ago. Video game.
That's just you know, that just doesn't help. Man. You know,
people always old with movies. I kind of time to
(28:45):
go up, don't movie? What are you talking about? I
catched on a plane. I can set on a plane
or a hotel room from my hand held advice. And
I'm away working family, you know, home. But I mean
I did. If you have all the cool piece enough
to spare time to just do stuff that you normally
would have done, it didn't exist anymore. And that's coming
from the man from Netflix. And it's not like it
(29:09):
used to be. Like I'll be honest, I mean I
just I just binged um, you know, botting me stop.
But he was on the deuce. I just ped that
and took that created the banding that I watched that
in a time where I was the bottle feeding my newborn,
um watching her trying to put her down, like if
she take a little while go down or um at
night where I got to bed, and you know, like
literally I'm in the band. I'm watching a little episode
if I go little bit, so I'm not done like
(29:30):
three three or four days. But I mean, you know,
and I haven't seen anything in a while now, so
you don't have as much time as you used to have.
That's what your bottle feeding is peak binge viewing, you
know for me, like, man, I just I mowed through
stuff and I had the bottle feed my kids. I watched. Yeah,
that was my max television consumption moment. I feel like
(29:53):
I was like making those bottles feeders for men when
they actually remember the meet the poppers had both really horrible,
because that's that would be really useful, so useful. Just kids.
You know, my newborn does think sometimes if she's looking
for do you have you do you have big packs?
(30:13):
I will say. My daughter's like dat booby shoot another techno.
Your breast pets are big, Like why is big? You're
like bench pressing. They are the most candid human beings alive.
They're bad breath detectors, like it's going on. Yeah, I
kissed Argue this morning and he looks at me. He goes, sorry,
(30:35):
he's fine, he got sorry, dad, bad breath just giving
your kids, give me a break. He could let us
slide exactly. Oh good point, Mike, But hold that thought,
because I want to hear from people who want to
sell our listeners things. Mike, let me ask you another thing.
(31:00):
You know, Joshua deals with this in his private life.
But you know, you are a recognizable person. So when
you were out with your family and you know, you
go to Chuck E Cheese or disney World or wherever
else the hand of the family decides to go, Um,
there are gonna be people are gonna ask for selfies
and so on, and you know, I want to chat
(31:20):
you up. And you know, I don't know how you
draw those kinds of lines. You know, it's probably different
when you're on your own or you know, in a
professional environment versus with your family, because you want to
protect that family. Part two. Yeah, I mean it, it's
touching go. I mean there's times, you know, disney Land,
I don't. I don't. I don't do that. I don't
entertain it disney Land because you know, the Reasland. I'm
like I and I was wearing hat and cheese. I
(31:41):
usually grow my beard out pretty good, and I was
find that if I'm not walking on a lot of people,
I think people usually don't tend to think that's me
anyway they go when would he wouldn't be walking around here?
Like why he that? You know? And so I think
that happened a lot. So I tend to, I think
the less you try to do to uh, to protect
yourself sometimes it makes it actually easier to go on
(32:03):
and notice if you just if you know what I mean, like,
the less you're trying to make a big deal out
of I tend to just like I said, you know
where shades had and I just you know, keep quiet
and I just move about very very quietly my daughter
and kids, and they do recognize me. I'll get me
not out of stuff. And I don't do do it
where places where I know if I do, it is
going to continue. And for the most part, people give
(32:24):
me a break when you would be with my kids.
I used to kids my chid up from the hold
them and I'm like, I'm like, like my kids, I
usually you usually leave it on to go. Well, you know,
some people don't. But you know, for the most things,
they thought, oh he's rich his kids, you know, and
don't go And if they don't, I was just I
was just poking my kids. I shile, I'm wrong. Sorry,
you got my kids, you know, like a kid, you know. Mike,
Can I throw in one last question because you do
(32:45):
have one of the great artists of voices. Which is
what's your go to book right now for reading to
your children? Oh? Wow, there's um is it? Um? Marina
the Ballerina. I think it is in the Ballerina Marina,
but I think it's Marina Martina the Ballerina as Martina
Marina Martina, that's my wife and Martina the Mallerina. Um.
(33:08):
It's a book that actually I think the been the
film with Jamie Bill called Skin. One of the producer's wife,
right wrote that children's book and talking about you know
that at dinner time and he gave me a Martini
autograph copy of it. And I'm always looking for new books,
um to to to read to her. So that's one.
The giving treaty I think is a great one. Yeah, class, Yeah,
(33:31):
that's a good one, yeah, I think. And then it
is the Curious George Books. But I gotta tell you
now that I'm reading reading those books to her, I
feel weird because it's always about this little monkey getting
in the trumpet I bought. Why am I reading this
book to her about doing stuff that somebody said not
to do and then he gets rewarded for it. This
makes no sense. I mean also there's a ugly colonial
underpinning of curious. Well, well, of course there and and
(33:54):
and and I told him if that once we got
the things, and I go, you know what, this is
probably not a great ide you, but we're going to
just finish this stuff and they would have thrown aways
and she won't notice. But yeah, there's this opinion. There's
no question about it. Well, thanks man, thank you very much.
Thank your point, and thank your point now not even worse,
but thanks you. Oh my god, Cala, thank you. I
(34:21):
can't tell impressive. Who has a more impressive voice culture.
I would like to rent that voice just for a week,
you know, like you know, I I sound like I'm like,
I don't know, like a character who should be in
like a mop commercial or something like that, you know,
but I want the gravitas of that voice. I would
love to hear your own unique gravitas. But don't you
(34:46):
want to hear Mike do like good Night Moon? I mean,
come on, I think he could make a killion audiobooks.
He really could really want Okay, fine, whatever you say, Yeah, alright,
I don't even need to see the rabbit. Um well
was I thought it was? I mean, I didn't know
if I was hoping that he would say, yeah, I
let my daughter see me cry. I think that would
(35:07):
make me feel better about myself letting my kids see
me cry. But I think he brought up a good
point that um kids need to be developmentally it needs
to be developmentally appropriate for them to see their parents
in a sort of extreme emotional state or you know,
not not as even keeled. Also, parental interviews should be
(35:30):
like longitudinal, don't you think, like, don't you want to
check in with four years? Next episode? Four years? When
you know, let's see how the you know, Mike's you know,
stringe and approached the parenting, which sounds awesome, you mean
the same page conversation. Well, it works out in a
practical context, because that's the hard part I find a parenting.
(35:53):
I can come up with all kinds of theories about
what I think is right, but you know, putting it
into real uses, that's where I suffer. Yeah, I feel
like the process of parenting is adopting strategies and then
letting them go. Adopting and letting go and not really
beating yourself up so much when you do inevitably let
it go and basically at the end of the day,
you're just gonna be. I think, although maybe this is cynical,
(36:15):
you're gonna be. There's not that wide of a range
of parenting that you can change, you know, but you
can get a little right. It's like, yeah, I also
love the idea. Can you imagine like you're you're leading
some parenting seminar, You've put up a few flyers around
the neighborhood, and all of a sudden, Luke Cage shows
up at your parenting seminar. I mean, how about that?
(36:37):
Though it's la so it's probably like Luke Cage and
the guy from Burne noticed they're all Matthew reaes Um.
I thought the part the fact that he needs to
be conscious of his voice at home also really struck me.
Not that I am professionally a voiceover artistle that you
(36:57):
couldn't tell from this podcast, but I do find that
being conscious of my own tone of voice with my
kids is a constant challenge because I do have a
tendency I think like him to be really stern or
to come across as much angrier than I actually feel.
But it's just like, oh, this is a voice you're
supposed to do when you say, you know, stop yelling
(37:20):
the word penis. You know, like, and you know your
kids are a little older than mine, but we're still
on the kind of you know, we have to wind
them down at the end of the night, which means
lowering your voice and not being as expressive. And my
wife is actually scolded me for being too demonstrative reading
(37:40):
books to them. She's like, you don't have to act
it out. They need to go to sleep. They're gonna
get dragons low dragons, sort of tacos. You know. Yeah,
I've been I've I've been reprimanded for you know, taking
a more activist approach to the bedtime reading. Uh. Yeah,
we're we're we're in the hellscape of late bedtimes right now. Well, Jason,
(38:05):
I enjoy talking to you. I enjoyed talking to Mike,
and uh, I guess that's it for this episode. You
can say that you enjoyed talking to Mike more than me.
I'm not going to take it personal, did I Well,
his phone line was a little bit crackle. Yeah, but
he is more famous, and he has that's I mean,
it's like not a better voice, it's an exponentially better
(38:25):
voice than this one. I don't, but I'm gonna work
on it. I'm gonna take up a three pack a
day cigarette habit. Now, I think you should just episode
you're going to not even recognize that. You should always
talk like you're putting people to bed. That's it, that's it,
that's it, and then you know by episode three, I'm
gonna sound like Tom Waits. Well, that's it for the
(38:57):
Fatherly Podcast. This episode jouring us next week when we're
talking to Matthias Jiro, who is He does some crazy
ship jumping off cliffs and he has a kid. I'm
curious about that he has. I'll hit it cliff recently
um jumping off of it. And David Chef, who wrote
a Beautiful Boy. He has a new book out with
his son called Hi. My name is Joshua David Stein.
(39:19):
I am your host of the Fatherly Podcast. This program
was produced by Max Savage Levinson. Hey Max, this guy?
What's your name? Jesse Shank Schultz. Jesse Schultz engineered it.
Andrew Berman is our executive producer. Oh yeah, our hotline
is a seven through two number. That's Jersey. It's seven
(39:39):
through two four one six four five seven one. Why
would you call it? You would call it if you're
struggling with any issues as a dad, or you want answers,
or you want us to ask questions again, it's seven
three two four one six four five seven one. Subscribe
on our Heart Radio and have great week. The bost
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