December 28, 2025 • 39 mins
Brad Kaplan is the entrepreneurial force behind Lion Cub’s Cookies, a gourmet cookie
company based in Columbus, Ohio. His journey began while studying at The Ohio State
University’s Fisher College of Business, where he started experimenting with cookie
recipes in his kitchen treating it like a science lab, tweaking ingredients one at a time to
perfect texture and flavor.
Originally trained as an engineer, Brad left his day job to pursue his cookie business full-
time. What started as a solo venture quickly grew into a full operation with bakers, recipe
developers, and delivery drivers. His early success was fueled by Instagram buzz and word-
of-mouth, and he leaned heavily into delivery during the pandemic.
Brad named the company “Lion Cub’s Cookies” based on childhood memories and a
desire for something unique and memorable. The brand is now known for its six-ounce
gooey cookies, and has become a local favorite in Columbus, with a storefront in
Grandview and plans for expansion.
Beyond business, Brad is deeply involved in the community donating thousands of cookies
to causes like Ronald McDonald House, Nationwide Children’s Hospital, and Pelotonia. He
was also named to the Columbus CEO Future 50 Class of 2022, recognized for his
leadership and commitment to inspiring the next generation of entrepreneurs.
company based in Columbus, Ohio. His journey began while studying at The Ohio State
University’s Fisher College of Business, where he started experimenting with cookie
recipes in his kitchen treating it like a science lab, tweaking ingredients one at a time to
perfect texture and flavor.
Originally trained as an engineer, Brad left his day job to pursue his cookie business full-
time. What started as a solo venture quickly grew into a full operation with bakers, recipe
developers, and delivery drivers. His early success was fueled by Instagram buzz and word-
of-mouth, and he leaned heavily into delivery during the pandemic.
Brad named the company “Lion Cub’s Cookies” based on childhood memories and a
desire for something unique and memorable. The brand is now known for its six-ounce
gooey cookies, and has become a local favorite in Columbus, with a storefront in
Grandview and plans for expansion.
Beyond business, Brad is deeply involved in the community donating thousands of cookies
to causes like Ronald McDonald House, Nationwide Children’s Hospital, and Pelotonia. He
was also named to the Columbus CEO Future 50 Class of 2022, recognized for his
leadership and commitment to inspiring the next generation of entrepreneurs.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Columbus in central Ohio have a rich history of companies
being headquartered here, everything from technology, manufacturing, retail, insurance, and more.
But what about the leaders behind these companies? What makes
them tick? How do they get their start? This is
where you get to meet the captain of the ship.
Welcome to CEOs you should know at iHeartMedia Columbus Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
My name is Bradley Kaplan. I'm the founder of Lyon
Cups Cookies in Columbus, Ohio, and what we are all
about is recreating that experience that we I think can
all relate to to some degree, that first cookie when
you were a kid. And one of the ways we
like to frame it is creative nostalgia. So we take
those nostalgic moments and we put a creative spin on it.
(00:41):
By the way of cookies, so we like to take
classics and some of them we keep classic, and the
our ones we put a new modern, creative spin on.
And we're super community oriented as well. We're really big
out there in community. And another thing I would say
that we are huge on, and I think this really
taps into the nostalgia of that first cookie, is freshness.
When we had that first cookie came right out of
(01:02):
the oven. So we don't sell cookies that are more
than a few hours old. So freshness, creative, nostalgia community,
that's who we are.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I've got no way did this guy found a cookie company?
He looks super fit? How did he found a cookie company?
And how many cookies are you eating? Brad?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I've gotten that comment a few times, but.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
You looked ripped, Brad.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I mean, I'm just always doing something and so to
be totally honest, I probably eat more cookies than you
think I would. And I would say, on average, I
eat two to three a week.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Two to three cookies a week.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, okay, every other day I'm having one, Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Brad Kaplan is with us. He's the founder behind line
Cubs Cookies. Tell us a little bit before we get
more into the company. I always like to ask our
guests about their journey, where they're from, where they grew up.
Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You're from right here, west side of Cleveland, a little
town called Fairview Park, so probably more familiar with Lakewood. Sure,
so it it's just south in slightly west of Lakewood.
And I grew up there and then I did my
undergrad at Ohio State from two thousand and nine to
twenty fourteen. So I did the victory lap and then
(02:16):
I moved back to Cleveland for three years, actually exactly
to the day, and I moved back to Columbus in
August of twenty seventeen. I've been here since.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
What growing up? What was what was life like? Did
you were you surrounded bunny? Any entrepreneurs? Did mom or
dad own their own business?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Or my dad went off on his own when I
was in seventh or eighth grade around there, he became
what was called it like a headhunters. I think that,
oh yeah, into basically he was a recruiter for a while.
Any went off on his own. But I actually I
made a TikTok about this two days ago. I talked
(02:55):
about my first business ever, and my first business ever
was definitely not legal. But I was about ten years old.
It's not what you think. I was ten years old.
I was ten years old, and me and my brother's
like twelve at the time. My dad lived next to
a golf course on the east side of Cleveland, and
basically me and my brother would go into the woods
next to the tenth hole, so you'd have the tea off.
(03:16):
You have the fairway, and on the left side of
the fairway you had a bunch of woods. Me and
my brother would go into the woods and we'd wait
for golfers to hit balls semi close to the woods.
It was more fun when you just hit in the
middle of the fairway, like all right, let's go get it.
So we'd run out there. We'd steal the golf ball.
But you're like, okay, so how do you make money
doing that? So we would collect hundreds of golf balls
(03:36):
and we'd put them in egg cartons, and then once
we had a couple hundred of those, we would go
back up to that same tea box and we'd sell
those golf balls back to golfers. So I like to say,
in a way, we are kind of Robin Hood. We
were stealing from the rich, but the difference is you're
just selling right back to the rich. It was a
public golf course.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But I did anyone ever call you out? Well, we
all looks familiar.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
They when we were selling. I'm like, where do you
guys get all these huh? Like? I mean they probably
I mean his balls would go into the woods. But
we only got caught once and but it's like there's
a couple of twenty year old guys golfing and they
ran through the woods and caught me and my brother.
But we're ten, eleven, twelve years old, I mean can
beat us up. Like they're not really very high risk there,
(04:20):
So we just deny, like, oh no, it's our friends.
We were with, even on the golf balls in our pocket.
So I love that it was more of a thrill
than it was a business. But like for us, we
go up there, we'd tell golf alls a fifty cents, yeah,
and you know, before you know it, you'd make ten
twenty thirty fifty bucks after you know, a day's work.
And when you're ten years old, you're you're basically a millionaire.
If you have twenty five bucks in your pocket, right,
(04:43):
we could buy with twenty five bucks, I can.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Get a whopper. That's great. Brad Kaplan is with us.
He is the founding CEO of Lion Cubs Cookies. Brad
is also one who gives back to the community the
Ronald McDonald House, So we're to talk about that too.
Did you know in high school that you eventually wanted
to be an entrepreneur? Start your own business. What was
(05:08):
in your head.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Then in high school? So for about the first two
to three years of high school, I actually want to
go to West Point Wow. Yeah. And I think the
more that became an actual idea, and especially the more
I shared that with my mom, she didn't want that.
And then my brother end up going to college. And
then I think probably about my junior year, I was
(05:29):
more more so like I think I want to go
to college because I saw my brother going there. And
at that point I'd started having a few beers on
the weekends and then I saw my brother having you know,
thirteen to seventeen beers a night on the weekends, and
like that looks pretty fun. So I think by my
junior year it is I want to go to school.
And at that point is I want to go to
House State because like most people grow up in Ohio,
(05:51):
that's kind of you see it growing up on TV,
the Buckeyes all that, and my brother ended up going there.
So at that point, yeah, I see myself being an
aunt preneur. No, I had no idea what I wanted
to do, to be honest, at that point.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, Well, Brad, what did you major in with your undergrad.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So I started off as an aerospace engineer. Wow, And honestly,
I wish I would have stuck with that, because that
sounds like a lot of fun. You're like literally a
rocket scientist, right. Yeah. But early on I saw the
math curriculum I had to do, and I didn't like math,
even though I was good at math, And I talked
to my advisor, and my advisor gave me some pretty
bad advice. But I ended up switching after a semester
(06:29):
to civil engineering. For I was like, bridges sound cool,
Like that was basically the reason my head was that simple.
So that's where it's like, I still didn't know what
I wanted to do. Yeah, And then by about my
senior year in college, I remember I had an internship
and I remember I went out in the parking lot
at lunch and I call him Mom, and I'm like,
this isn't what I want to do. I know this
is not what I want to do. I don't know
(06:50):
what to do though. I was like, I'm about to
graduate in like eight nine months. If I switched my major,
I don't even know what I'll switch it to. Yeah,
what should I do? And she's like, I think you
should finish and then you know, figured it out after
But at this point, just finished the degree. But I
knew at that point being a civil engineer wasn't what
I wanted because I had a couple of internships under
my belt and I got a feel for what the
(07:11):
life would be like, and yeah, it was just boring,
Like sitting at a desk all day just wasn't for me.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That's that always fascinates me to meet people like yourself
who have these just natural, incredible gifts, like you're clearly
very good at math. Yeah, but I'm guessing that you
just weren't feeling the passion for it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I wasn't feeling a passion for that type of work
environment and that type of work. I can't sit in
an office all day. It just it was boring to me.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, you know, so after graduation, you, I know you
mentioned this earlier. You eventually went back to Cleveland. Yeah,
what did you do?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
So? I worked for a regional engineering from up there
for a couple of years and lived in Lakewood and
had a lot of fun. A lot of my friends
lived in Lakewood. And then after about two years, I
started thinking about going back to school because at that
point it was like, I now for sure, No, I
don't want to do this. What's a path to pivot here?
I talked to enough people and they're like, hey, a
lot of good things can happen when you get an NBA.
(08:11):
At that point, I didn't really know what I was
going to do with it. My plan was, and it's
a bad plan. It was I'll do the NBA and
I trust that I'll figure it out along the way
what my next step is. So that that kind of
led me back to Columbus in twenty seventeen and my
firm luckily transfer me to their office down here, and
I was taking night class at the time, so I
(08:31):
was still working full time taking night classes at the
Fisher School Business.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, Brad with wanting to get that MBA was in
a thought process of well, it'll I'll advance faster if
I have an MBA, or I'll make more money. Was
that kind of a thought or.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It was it was that, and or I'll figure out
what I actually want to do through this process. I'll
be exposed to a bunch of different things and a
bunch of different people that come from a bunch of
different networks and places, and I'll be exposed to something
that interests me, and if I find something that interests me,
I'm more likely to make money because I'll be passionate
(09:09):
about it. So it was more so that that. It
was more so, I will find something that I like
to do along the way, and if I like to
do something, I'm more likely to make money because anything
you're passionate about, you're going to be more successful at.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, somewhere, Brad, and correct me if I'm wrong. Somewhere
along that journey, at that point, you were doing recipes
and cookie recipes or something, right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, about halfway through through business school, I made my
first cookie. So I started business school in August twenty seventeen.
I make my first cookie A little over a year later,
my first cookie ever in November twenty eighteen. I graduated
December twenty nineteen. So I was in business school for
about a year. I made my first cookie, and about
a year later I was done.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So and we're not talking, by the way, you bought
frozen dough from Nesley toldhouse you were experimenting at your
house with recipes, right.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, So first cookie, I was just getting ready to
go to my mom's house for Thanksgiving, So it was
November twenty eighteen, and she asked me to bring something
and I think it was dessert, and pumpkin pie is
the obvious choice, but I have pumpkin pie every Thanksgiving,
so I wanted something different. But I also love pumpkin things,
so I just googled pumpkin desserts and luckily a pumpkin
(10:24):
cookie recipe came up. I was like, oh, that looks
like fun. I've always been a good cook so but
I've never baked anything, so I always want to do
it myself. So I made that cookie recipe. I took
it to my mom's. I had probably ten to fifteen
cookies over the two days I was there, and I
came back and I just kept I kept making cookies,
and I kept tweaking the recipes, and I kept googling
stuff about cookie recipes. And then I started doing the
(10:46):
controlled experiments where I'd hold everything constant and change one ingredient,
And by doing that a bunch of times, I started
learning what each of the individual ingredients did, and I
was able to create a recipe that was my own.
And so after about three months of doing that, that's
where it. Because I'm like these cookies are really good?
Who won't buy these? And you can't really get this
anywhere around here? You know, this was back in twenty eighteen.
(11:08):
This was before the landscape we live in now with
cookie brands everywhere, right right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So where where was it where the light bulb went off? Brad?
You seem like a very i mean obviously very intelligent,
but confident too. Where did the light bulb go off
where you told yourself, Hey, I I got something here,
I could do this.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah it was so that was probably about February or
March of twenty nineteen. And honestly, I consider myself a
very in general average person. I think I have the
emotions of an average person. I think I have the
palette of an average person. I think I just think
like the average person. And so I'm trying this, and
I'm just like, this is objectively good. You know, there's
(11:54):
things that we can all agree on taste really good.
And I was like, this is one of them. So
and I can't get this anywhere, so like, and this
is cool, this is fun to me. I like, I've
always liked to cook. When I was young, my parents
if there was anything I wanted to do when I
was young, it was own a restaurant because I've I've
been cooking. I think I cooked myself my first meal
(12:14):
when I was about five years old. Wow, what was it?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, So to say cook my own meal is a
is a interesting way to put it. Basically, like my
dad would always buy those like little pre made pizza
dough and I would just throw sauce and cheese and pepperoni.
But when you're five years old, that's cooking for yourself.
So that was the first thing I did. We'd make
homemade pizzas with pre made dough. But then like I
started making myself scrambled eggs, and I started it was
(12:40):
just one notch up. And then by the time I
was in college, I was cooking for myself all the time.
Stuff that you know, an average college kid wouldn't do,
Like I had a smoker in my backyard in college,
like barbecuing, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, So okay, I'm seeing it now. I'm seeing that
now that you let that out. Okay, So you clearly
love to cook from an early age. There is differences
between cooking and baking. Do you prefer baking versus cooking?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I far prefer cooking over baking, because the thing with baking,
and here's the difference is baking is literally a science
that there's especially cookies and most baked goods. When you
introduce that baking powder or that baking soda, think about
the science class you did with a volcano. You mix
baking soda and forget what it is and the volcano erupts.
(13:32):
That's essentially what's happening in the oven. There's a chemical
reaction that occurs that's releasing air, and you can't really
change things once you start that chemical reaction. Once you
put that that item in the oven and make your settings,
the process is started and you can't go in there.
But think about when you're making even a burger on
the grill or eggs in a pan. You can turn
(13:52):
up the heat, you can turn down the heat, you
can move things around. You don't you can't do that
in baking. It's kind of set it, cross your fingers
that it comes out good, and then make your tweaks
after that. But you can't make tweaks along the way.
So that and that's why I don't like it, because
I can fix things I'm doing wrong when I'm cooking
or I'm grilling.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah, Brad, that might be one of the best
ways I've ever heard that described before.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The difference. Yeah, and it was a kid. We can
all kind of think about that experience we had as
a kid.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I've never heard it described to me like that before.
Probably the best one ever. I never thought about it
that way either. So then, so when did you decide, Brad, Hey,
I want to because I want to get to the name.
But when did you decide this is going to be
a company. I think I can do this.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Let's let's yeah, March, so March twenty nineteen, okay, and
then I formed. At that point, it's like, okay, what
do I do? Never started a company before? And so
then I started going through you know, really just googling.
At that point, what's the first thing I need to do?
So I file the paperwork with the with the state
to form an LLC, and then I file paperwork at IRS,
(15:02):
get your EI in, and then I open up a
bank account. And at that point there's no playbook. You
can do that stuff. And now that I've done it,
you do that stuff in twenty minutes. And then it's like, okay,
where do I start first? And Where I started first
was really really nailing down the recipes and figuring out
what the brand was and then kind of a launch
(15:24):
plan and like how am I going to sell this?
So it's like what is the product? Like how good
can I get this product? What's the name and what
does it mean? And how am I going to convince
people to buy these? And where am I going to
have people buy these?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
If someone and I'm sure they have come to you
and said, hey, I want to start my own company, Brad,
what do I do first? Would you tell them figure
out what you want to sell or what you want
to create product first?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Or yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I think for branding first, I think it's why first.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Why. There's kind of two whys. There's why are you
doing it? So what is your why? And why should
anyone care? Why does someone else care about what you're
going to do? But what you're going to sell, whether
it's a service or a good. And I think if
you can't answer those questions to start, then I think
it would be a little bit lost. So I knew
(16:17):
what my why was, and I knew why I thought
people would buy this. My why for why should people
buy this was one? It's amazing and two, there's nothing
like it right now, so it's kind of simple. And
then what was my why was? I always, from the
beginning until now, have always liked the idea of creating
opportunities for others and in doing so, I can create
(16:40):
opportunities for myself. So that's always been a huge motivator
for growth for me. Because every dollar we make, every
incremental dollar more we make, I'm one step closer to
offering someone a promotion that provides them the freedom to
do something they haven't been able to do before. So
a really quick example that is marketing girl Nam's Emily.
(17:01):
You know, she started off with me as a team
member about three years ago. She's doing a career switch,
started off as a team member, has been promoted I
don't know, three or four times out over the last
three years to where she became marketing manager and because
of that opportunity, she was able to start a family recently,
so she just had her first kid. And it's like
(17:22):
stuff like that that really motivates me. So that was
always my why from the beginning. And what does that
have to do with selling cookies, I don't know, but
I had something that motivated me.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
That's refreshing. By the way, as someone who works for
corporate America that you don't hear that very often.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, it's funny, it's it's really a good feeling. I mean,
even a boss in a big corporate something like that,
Like I imagine most supervisors and bosses enjoy the enjoy
the opportunities they get to speak to their director ports
and say hey, I'm offering you a promotion, yeah, and
a significant raise like that feels good unless you're just
a cold person. But most of that feel was good to.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Hey, Brian, why don't we talk about the name Lion
Cubs cookies for a sec. The name derived from your childhood.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah it was. It was my dad's nickname for me
as a kid.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So Lion was Lion lying Cubs.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah yeah. So I had crazy hair, like you know,
akin to a lion's man. And then my energy was
insane and I was just I got in a lot
of trouble as a kid. I was always doing bad stuff,
as you can imagine with my my first business. And
so between the energy and off the walls, running around
(18:37):
doing that kind of stuff, getting in trouble, plus the hair,
my dad always say I'm going to the petting zoo.
He pet my hair. It's like, you know the lion
cub here, you know? So that that was? Uh?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Was that was that your friend? Did you have multiple
names or was lion Cubs the first that?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So I had a ton of ideas. I struggled with
the name for months. I couldn't think of anything good.
Some of the stuff I was coming up with a
super eric. And then I got some advice from someone
who's now my mentor. He's like, just start thinking about
stuff from your childhood and just write it all down
and then eventually something will click. And as I was
in a car and was jotting stuff on my phone,
anything and everything I could think of for my childhood.
(19:15):
And I remember when I wrote down line Cup. I
was with my brother and I like tapped him, like
showed him my phone and he saw a line couver
it down. He kind of like nod has head. Because
at that point we knew what we knew what the
brand needed to be, we knew what the customer, the
average customer was, and we knew that I could I
could turn this into something that would really resonate with
(19:37):
our with our target customer. Love that, Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
The Uh, So did you design the actual logo of
the car?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I had a childhood friend helped me design it, and
then another friend of mine helped me get the colors
just right.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So you created this company a year before the pandemic, right,
I know you said earlier on the podcast about how
after the pandemic, like a floodgate of different things came
out baking wise, different entrepreneurs. So a year later when
the pandemic hit, what happened with the company? How were
(20:16):
I mean, did sales skyrocket? Tell us about that moment
in time?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So first time I sold a cookie was December twenty nineteen.
If you remember, things started closing down in March twenty twenty.
The weekend of the Arnold was kind of the big
Like that was the first moment I think in Columbus
where we're like, oh, this is no longer just a headline,
this is now really interesting. They've they've shut down the Arnold.
So we had done six pop ups at the North
(20:41):
Market downtown prior to the shutdown. We actually had a
pop up on the day the Sunday of the Arnold,
and that still went on because the North Market was
still open. Most everything else was still open. You know,
a couple of days later everything shuts down. At that point,
we had basically three options. Number one was waited out,
(21:01):
and at that point a lot of people were of
that mindset two weeks, three weeks, this will be over. Yeah.
Looking back and it's like, well, thank god we didn't
choose that route. Option two was to do you know,
weighed out and do more pop ups because you can't
do pop ups now because everything's closed. Option two is
do pick up. But that wasn't a good option either
because we were working out of a shared kitchen space
(21:22):
in a not great neighborhood. You know, had barbour fence
and gay and access. You can't really do pick up there.
It was a shared kitchen too, a shared, huge industrial kitchen.
Option three was delivery. Mind you were a company who
had just started. And this is where it got really impressive.
Like we built an in house delivery for us in
a month. And at that point I had three employees,
(21:43):
two of them had lost their jobs. And this is
what really pushed it for me was and then this
goes back to my why to them. They kind of
came to me one night after we were making dough.
They're like, hey, we got laid off, it can you
keep us busy? Like, we don't really want to file
for unemployment. There those type of people, so kudos, and
mind you, They're working with me for about three to
four hours a week, so I'm not exactly a meaningful
(22:05):
employer at this time and I just got started. So
at that point, I'm like, Okay, I can keep my
people busy if we do delivery. But we didn't do delivery.
How everyone else did it was use the apps, because
that would have defeated the purpose for me. I was
doing delivery to keep my people busy and give them
an opportunity. Yeah, so we quickly turned our website and
do an e commerce website. I found a bunch of
(22:25):
integrated solutions where we could do deliveries from our phone
using apps like your basically delivery management apps. And yeah,
and delivery took off, I mean like and so to
the point where that was March, I was able to
quit my job in May. Two months later it had
gotten so amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, it is selling and no disrespect here, but selling cookies.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, Yeah, and are extremely inconvenient and ordering and delivery model,
which I want it into because it's too much detail,
but it was very inconvenient. It was difficult to order,
but people went for it. It was kind of the
perfect storm and we ended up growing really, really a
ton in that period of.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Wow, Brad, did you ever think during that time to yourself,
were you ever unsure? Did you ever think what if
I got myself into? Did you ever ask yourself? I
don't know the answer to this or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
To be more honest, I think I'm more unsure the
more I've done it than in the early days because
in the early days, like everything simple, there's not a
whole lot of stuff going on, and the stakes aren't
as high. I employed two or three people. Now I
employ forty five fifty people. Wow. And every time we grow,
(23:44):
we get a little bit more complex, and it's kind
of like a fan effect. There's more and more stuff
that I have to be cognitant of. And this is
my first time doing this, so I'm being exposed to
more and more things as we grow that I don't
know how to do, which is where I get more
insure myself the more we grows. I've done this enough time,
I know that I can figure it out, or that
I can lean on other people to help me figure
(24:04):
it out, which is honestly been one of the biggest
things in growing is getting to the point where you
can humble yourself and realize that you are not going
to be the expert in everything in your company, and
if you are, you're probably not doing a good job
leading because you probably have too big of an ego.
At some point you have to accept that I'm not
going to be the person that knows this. I need
to let someone else help me.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And were you okay to lean on others or yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
It's yeah, because especially when you have you know, some
really really motivated people, they're just waiting for that opportunity
to show you how much they can learn and how
quick they can do it.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I think I know, Brad, But what what's your leadership style?
What do you like if I'm working for you?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well, I'd like to say I've never once raised my
voice in anyone, which is which is nice. I've been
doing this for six years. I've never raised my voice
in anyone. So I'm definitely calm. I will to some degree.
I give people opportunities and sometimes I don't give them
a ton of direction, but that's kind of by design.
I kind of want to see what they're going to
(25:07):
do on their own. And I definitely pick my battles
and I've learned that, like, only pick your battles on
the things that are important to you. And that's where
it's like, determine what your core values are. And that's
where I think core values actually mean something when you're
running a business, you know, not just words on a wall.
It's okay, what where are you going to pick your battles?
Where are you going to improve most? Where are you
(25:28):
going to draw the line on what you'll accept and
what you want out of people? And that should be
like your core values. So I give people leeway to
learn on their own and I'll kind of let them
ask me more than I definitely don't micromanage, that's for sure.
I think some of them would wish I would more,
But yeah, I think that's my style.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
What Brad is, I mean, you're human, So what upsets you?
What disappoints you when someone falls short of because clearly
you have expectations.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, it's laziness. Honestly, It's it's like when I know
you know what to do, and I know what you
you know what the right thing is and you chose
not to do it. That really bothers me. From every
level of the organization, from from a team member to
anyone who has significant responsibility. It's one thing if you
can plead ignorance, but even that sometimes frustrates me. But
(26:25):
I think that's less of frustration when someone complete ignorance.
I'm like, why didn't you ask for help? It's frustrating,
but I get it. Some people don't want to ask
for help because they think it makes them look dumb,
when in reality, the person who asks the most questions
I immediately think is the smartest person in the room.
But it's really if you know what to do and
you don't do it that really really angers me.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So here we are coming up on what almost six
years later after you sold your first cookie.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
How how is business for Lion Cubs?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
It's good? Yeah, good. We have two locations and we're
in the very early stages of looking for a third.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And that is your main one. Is it Grand View?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Is it Earth? I don't know. I mean that's the
oldest one. That one's been there for about four and
a half years one and Worthington has been there for
a little over a year and a half. So yeah,
we've got both stores in a pretty good spot to
the point where we're definitely ready for a third And
it's just a matter of when and where and can't
really force real estate. You can't force. If you do
(27:27):
force it, you might make a bad decision, right, those
are really big mistakes.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
With you know, you're a small company, But do you
still are you still doing research on Okay, what part
of town could really use my business? Where could line
cubs thrive? Are you do you look into all that research?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
But real estate is such a complex game that you know,
every time I look for a new site, I learn
more about what what a good site looks like and
what my resources are to figure out what a good
site is. So I'm going through that process right now,
and I'm learning. I'm better equipment I was the second time,
and the second time I was better equipman I was
the first time. So learning as I go, for sure.
(28:07):
And yeah, it's fun. I really like the real estate
side of things. It's really fun. It's like you're looking
for a Neil and a Hayes act to some degree
because everyone else is looking for good sites too. Yeah,
it's like what fits your brand and will you be
the first to act on it.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's amazing. And also to see where Columbus is at
now from when I first moved here in like nineteen
ninety nine, it's insane. The real estate and where we're
at now. It's Yeah, they don't they don't call Columbus
cowtown anymore, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah. No, it helps being in a market like this
that is growing. You know, for example, Cleveland where I
grew up, like Cleveland on average is shrinking over time. Yeah,
Combas is not right. You know, the population of Combus
is growing, and it's just good macro business to be
in those areas.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, great place to be. So look, I want to
get to philanthropy a little bit too. You are heavily
involved with the Ronald McDonald house Nationwide Children's Hospital Pelotonia.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, so Nationwide is definitely the biggest partner we have,
and a couple of times ago I was meeting with them.
They gave me a tour of their main hospital and
they took me through the donor wall room where it's
like all these hundreds of businesses have their names on
the wall. Some more prominently shown than others. And I
was like, how much how much you have to donate
to have your name on this wall? And she tells
(29:32):
me a number. I'm like, we're only a couple thousand
away from that, which is like that was about a
year and a half ago, which is kind of crazy
to think about. At that point, I've only been in
business for three and a half four years. I'm like,
I've donated so much money to Nationwide that I'm only
a couple thousand having my name on the wall there.
And that's just one place. So in twenty twenty four alone,
(29:53):
we donated over sixty thousand dollars in monetary and product
donations for a two low cation business. Like that's an
insane number. So we work a lot with different organizations
in town. There's a couple we work with very closely,
like Nationwise definitely number one. We've done some stuff for
(30:14):
rom McDonald house, you know, after Nationwide, it's all kind
of the same for us. There's like a second tier
at Pelotonia, Ron McDonald house, Dave Thomas Foundation, a couple
hours like that, and then we work with several PTOs
around town as well, do fundraisers for them donate cookies
for teacher Appreciation Day stuff like that. So we're super
(30:35):
out there and it's more than just we're going to
write a check, right, We're physically out there, Like we're
at the Spring Flings and the Fall Fest, and we're
at the Pelotonia Main Ride event, and we're at a
fundraising event that they have at Columbus Zoo. Like we're
physically showing up and doing those things. And we're going
to Holiday and the Heights in Grand View and there's
(30:55):
another cookie decorating holiday. Think we're doing in wardingkon. We're
setting up a table having kids that great cookies for free.
Like there's nothing in it for us monetarily, right, other
than good exposure of course, but it's more so about
creating a nice experience for people and just being out there,
visible in the community. So super big on that.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, well, and you love to do it. As someone
who has done charity work philanthropy for most of my life,
I've noticed and there's nothing wrong with this. No nonprofit
is ever going to turn someone away for cutting a check.
But there would you agree there are differences between someone
(31:32):
who just wants to cut a check and wants to help.
That's okay, But then there are people like you who
want to do product and monetary but you also care
very much. It sounds like you're very passionate.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah. I have no interest in just writing a check,
to be totally honest, And when people approach us for that,
like these kind of sponsorship packages, if I'm interested at all,
my response is kind of always the same as, Hey,
we're interested in this kind of write you a check
for a sponsorship thing if we can do something more.
(32:05):
And what that do something more as varies paying on
the organization. Yeah, but it definitely involves like some person
to person interaction. So that's usually always our thing is.
And we have a PTO and Worthington we work with that. That
was kind of the situation and now we're in super
deep with them. They sent us a sponsorship package when
we first opened. It was kind of hey, you get
your name here and we'll put your name on the
(32:26):
T shirt there, and I was like, yeah, we'll do this,
but I'd like to do a couple more things too.
I'd like to be at these events, and of course
they're all for it. I was like, because when we
do I'm like, I like to be at these events
you're doing, and I like to do some fundraising there too,
so they're like, well, of course we'd love to have
you there. So it's kind of a double win for them.
So that's kind of how we approach this.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, absolutely, Brad. As we wrap up here, I know
you talked about the potential of a third location. What
are some of the other goals for Lion Cubs Cookies
in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Oh? Man, So, I mean my ultimate goal is to
you know, eventually I'll get bored of this, and.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
What does that mean? You'll sell it or what?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Let's just use a sale, you know, I I eventually
that that's definitely an option or step away and offer
someone else's role to take over the company. Hey, you
run the company and I'll still be a shareholder and yeah,
that'll be cool for them, would be cool for me.
But what about you? Then?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
What do you? What do you do?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I go do something else? Yeah, I mean I stay involved, but.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
You mean starting another company or.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Maybe yeah, I don't know. I just I know myself.
I know over time, my interests always fluctuate. Yeah, so
but let's just use like, if I'm able to sell
the company, here's what I like most about that, and
my mentor did the same thing. My mentor was the
founder of Raising kines O Hi. We got to think
to roughly fifty locations before he sold, And what he
did when he sold back to cour was he wrote
(34:01):
a check, a large check to many the people around
him that helped them get it to what it was
at that time, even though they didn't officially have equity. Yeah,
it was you know, it was life changing money for them,
life changing money. And I really want the opportunity if
I sell the company to do that with the people
that are, you know, instrumental in helping us get there.
(34:22):
I mean that that's the aultimate feeling right there, especially
they're not expecting it, and then when you're just seeing
their eyes like this is for me and like it
changed it truly would change their life. Yeah, And that's
when I go back to my why is creating opportunities
for others. So being able to give someone else an
opportunity is a really really strong motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Brett has the thought of franchise come up?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yes, And it was actually a conversation I was having
just two days ago at lunch, because you know that
franchising is a growth model. It can if if we're
talking about getting the ten twenty locations, it can get
you there way quicker than if you're doing it on
your own. For a lot of reasons. It's a little
scary though, because you lose control. I can't just walk
into a store and make that's being done wrong. We
(35:08):
need to change it. I'm not their boss. I'm just
licensing them the use of my brand at that point
in my processes. So I think that becomes more of
a serious conversation once we start looking outside of Columbus.
I think there's a couple more we can do in Columbus,
and then when we enter a new market, franchising is
probably a little bit more of a conversation there. But
I'm more open to it now than I was two
years ago, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
We talked a little bit earlier about as we wrop
up here, Brad. You know, e commerce early on is
what started things with sales. What you know, besides the store,
can we go to your Instagram? Can we go to
the website and just order right there?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, you can go on the website. You can do
catering through our website. Pick up or delivery through our website.
Even our catering we deliver it. We do a ton
of catering orders. We just did three massive catering orders
for like Worthington Enterprises for example. Wow, we do. Yeah,
we do a ton of catering for Ohouse State University football.
I just dropped off in order personally to UH for
coach day last week.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, that's gotta be cool.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
It is pretty cool. We have another one coming up
next week. So yeah, you can order through our website.
You can definitely find us on social media, so yeah,
handles at lyon cubs Cookies, Instagram. TikTok. Tiktok' a little
bit more of a newer platform for us. We're actually
in some pretty good traction yeah recently, so we're super
active on there.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Do you feel as a business too with social media?
I'm not on TikTok, but I do understand the power
of it. Are you told as like a business owner? Hey,
you got to try to be everywhere possible? Or what?
What was your thought process to add TikTok to it?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I think when TikTok got started, it was like, Eh,
what's this? You know a couple of years ago, think
we're like this is this is like Vine, right Vine?
That was kind of what everyone was saying. This is
like Vine, it's a flash in the panel, go away.
Instagram is still king. It's too big to ignore right now.
You could argue it's bigger than Instagram, so you have
(37:07):
to be there. It's like one of those things where like,
if you're not on Instagram right now, what are you doing?
And it's I think it's now it's It's definitely at
a point it's been at a point where if you're
not on TikTok, what are you doing as a business,
especially because if if you want to reach a younger audience,
that's where they are. The younger audience is not on
Instagram as much, and the platforms are very different. We're
learning like the content that works on one and I'll
(37:29):
put it simply, we're finding this out. But what we're
starting to hypothesize for our business is or is TikTok
the food, porn, the super product related stuff does not
work there. People want to hear from people on TikTok.
People want to hear stories. They want you to be transparent,
they want to know the people behind the business. Where
(37:49):
that isn't quite as necessary on TikTok, right, it still works,
I'm sorry, on Instagram. That still works on Instagram and
works very well on Instagram. But I think I feel
like TikTok almost requires.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
It, right, the storytelling.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
One hundred percent, and that's what's working. And a lot
of a lot of other creators and accounts that we've
kind of studied, that's been kind of one of the
main themes is there's like there's a one or two
or three main protagonists of this account that the people
on in the Internet have formed a relationship with. And
(38:24):
and you know that that probably says something about about
the younger generation of kind of how they're different from
from me being a millennial. Yeah, I don't know that
we require that as much.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
You know, what you just said reminded me of something
I saw on an interview a couple of weeks ago
Shark Tank's mister Wonderful Yeah, and he said something very
similar to what you just said, but but he went
a little deeper with it, saying that if if you're
a business, and if you're not on social media, if
you're not on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook, but especially
(38:55):
Instagram at TikTok. He's like, I will not invest in you. Yeah,
he's like, because in twenty two twenty five, your brand
needs to be on those social media plays if you
want to survive, if you want to survive in the future,
they have to beat. Your business has to be on
those platforms for sure, or I don't want to talk
to you. He said, yeah, yeah, I thought that was interesting. So,
(39:17):
Brad Kaplan, who is the forest behind line Cubs Cookies,
Thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation.
Congrats on all of your success and really nice to
meet you.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Likewise, looking forward to listening to the podcast and was done.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
CEOs You Should Know is hosted and produced by Brandon Boxer,
a production of iHeartMedia Columbus
Columbus in central Ohio have a rich history of companies
being headquartered here, everything from technology, manufacturing, retail, insurance, and more.
But what about the leaders behind these companies? What makes
them tick? How do they get their start? This is
where you get to meet the captain of the ship.
Welcome to CEOs you should know at iHeartMedia Columbus Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
My name is Bradley Kaplan. I'm the founder of Lyon
Cups Cookies in Columbus, Ohio, and what we are all
about is recreating that experience that we I think can
all relate to to some degree, that first cookie when
you were a kid. And one of the ways we
like to frame it is creative nostalgia. So we take
those nostalgic moments and we put a creative spin on it.
(00:41):
By the way of cookies, so we like to take
classics and some of them we keep classic, and the
our ones we put a new modern, creative spin on.
And we're super community oriented as well. We're really big
out there in community. And another thing I would say
that we are huge on, and I think this really
taps into the nostalgia of that first cookie, is freshness.
When we had that first cookie came right out of
(01:02):
the oven. So we don't sell cookies that are more
than a few hours old. So freshness, creative, nostalgia community,
that's who we are.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I've got no way did this guy found a cookie company?
He looks super fit? How did he found a cookie company?
And how many cookies are you eating? Brad?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I've gotten that comment a few times, but.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
You looked ripped, Brad.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I mean, I'm just always doing something and so to
be totally honest, I probably eat more cookies than you
think I would. And I would say, on average, I
eat two to three a week.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Two to three cookies a week.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, okay, every other day I'm having one, Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Brad Kaplan is with us. He's the founder behind line
Cubs Cookies. Tell us a little bit before we get
more into the company. I always like to ask our
guests about their journey, where they're from, where they grew up.
Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You're from right here, west side of Cleveland, a little
town called Fairview Park, so probably more familiar with Lakewood. Sure,
so it it's just south in slightly west of Lakewood.
And I grew up there and then I did my
undergrad at Ohio State from two thousand and nine to
twenty fourteen. So I did the victory lap and then
(02:16):
I moved back to Cleveland for three years, actually exactly
to the day, and I moved back to Columbus in
August of twenty seventeen. I've been here since.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
What growing up? What was what was life like? Did
you were you surrounded bunny? Any entrepreneurs? Did mom or
dad own their own business?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Or my dad went off on his own when I
was in seventh or eighth grade around there, he became
what was called it like a headhunters. I think that,
oh yeah, into basically he was a recruiter for a while.
Any went off on his own. But I actually I
made a TikTok about this two days ago. I talked
(02:55):
about my first business ever, and my first business ever
was definitely not legal. But I was about ten years old.
It's not what you think. I was ten years old.
I was ten years old, and me and my brother's
like twelve at the time. My dad lived next to
a golf course on the east side of Cleveland, and
basically me and my brother would go into the woods
next to the tenth hole, so you'd have the tea off.
(03:16):
You have the fairway, and on the left side of
the fairway you had a bunch of woods. Me and
my brother would go into the woods and we'd wait
for golfers to hit balls semi close to the woods.
It was more fun when you just hit in the
middle of the fairway, like all right, let's go get it.
So we'd run out there. We'd steal the golf ball.
But you're like, okay, so how do you make money
doing that? So we would collect hundreds of golf balls
(03:36):
and we'd put them in egg cartons, and then once
we had a couple hundred of those, we would go
back up to that same tea box and we'd sell
those golf balls back to golfers. So I like to say,
in a way, we are kind of Robin Hood. We
were stealing from the rich, but the difference is you're
just selling right back to the rich. It was a
public golf course.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But I did anyone ever call you out? Well, we
all looks familiar.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
They when we were selling. I'm like, where do you
guys get all these huh? Like? I mean they probably
I mean his balls would go into the woods. But
we only got caught once and but it's like there's
a couple of twenty year old guys golfing and they
ran through the woods and caught me and my brother.
But we're ten, eleven, twelve years old, I mean can
beat us up. Like they're not really very high risk there,
(04:20):
So we just deny, like, oh no, it's our friends.
We were with, even on the golf balls in our pocket.
So I love that it was more of a thrill
than it was a business. But like for us, we
go up there, we'd tell golf alls a fifty cents, yeah,
and you know, before you know it, you'd make ten
twenty thirty fifty bucks after you know, a day's work.
And when you're ten years old, you're you're basically a millionaire.
If you have twenty five bucks in your pocket, right,
(04:43):
we could buy with twenty five bucks, I can.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Get a whopper. That's great. Brad Kaplan is with us.
He is the founding CEO of Lion Cubs Cookies. Brad
is also one who gives back to the community the
Ronald McDonald House, So we're to talk about that too.
Did you know in high school that you eventually wanted
to be an entrepreneur? Start your own business. What was
(05:08):
in your head.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Then in high school? So for about the first two
to three years of high school, I actually want to
go to West Point Wow. Yeah. And I think the
more that became an actual idea, and especially the more
I shared that with my mom, she didn't want that.
And then my brother end up going to college. And
then I think probably about my junior year, I was
(05:29):
more more so like I think I want to go
to college because I saw my brother going there. And
at that point I'd started having a few beers on
the weekends and then I saw my brother having you know,
thirteen to seventeen beers a night on the weekends, and
like that looks pretty fun. So I think by my
junior year it is I want to go to school.
And at that point is I want to go to
House State because like most people grow up in Ohio,
(05:51):
that's kind of you see it growing up on TV,
the Buckeyes all that, and my brother ended up going there.
So at that point, yeah, I see myself being an
aunt preneur. No, I had no idea what I wanted
to do, to be honest, at that point.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, Well, Brad, what did you major in with your undergrad.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So I started off as an aerospace engineer. Wow, And honestly,
I wish I would have stuck with that, because that
sounds like a lot of fun. You're like literally a
rocket scientist, right. Yeah. But early on I saw the
math curriculum I had to do, and I didn't like math,
even though I was good at math, And I talked
to my advisor, and my advisor gave me some pretty
bad advice. But I ended up switching after a semester
(06:29):
to civil engineering. For I was like, bridges sound cool,
Like that was basically the reason my head was that simple.
So that's where it's like, I still didn't know what
I wanted to do. Yeah, And then by about my
senior year in college, I remember I had an internship
and I remember I went out in the parking lot
at lunch and I call him Mom, and I'm like,
this isn't what I want to do. I know this
is not what I want to do. I don't know
(06:50):
what to do though. I was like, I'm about to
graduate in like eight nine months. If I switched my major,
I don't even know what I'll switch it to. Yeah,
what should I do? And she's like, I think you
should finish and then you know, figured it out after
But at this point, just finished the degree. But I
knew at that point being a civil engineer wasn't what
I wanted because I had a couple of internships under
my belt and I got a feel for what the
(07:11):
life would be like, and yeah, it was just boring,
Like sitting at a desk all day just wasn't for me.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That's that always fascinates me to meet people like yourself
who have these just natural, incredible gifts, like you're clearly
very good at math. Yeah, but I'm guessing that you
just weren't feeling the passion for it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I wasn't feeling a passion for that type of work
environment and that type of work. I can't sit in
an office all day. It just it was boring to me.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, you know, so after graduation, you, I know you
mentioned this earlier. You eventually went back to Cleveland. Yeah,
what did you do?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
So? I worked for a regional engineering from up there
for a couple of years and lived in Lakewood and
had a lot of fun. A lot of my friends
lived in Lakewood. And then after about two years, I
started thinking about going back to school because at that
point it was like, I now for sure, No, I
don't want to do this. What's a path to pivot here?
I talked to enough people and they're like, hey, a
lot of good things can happen when you get an NBA.
(08:11):
At that point, I didn't really know what I was
going to do with it. My plan was, and it's
a bad plan. It was I'll do the NBA and
I trust that I'll figure it out along the way
what my next step is. So that that kind of
led me back to Columbus in twenty seventeen and my
firm luckily transfer me to their office down here, and
I was taking night class at the time, so I
(08:31):
was still working full time taking night classes at the
Fisher School Business.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Well, Brad with wanting to get that MBA was in
a thought process of well, it'll I'll advance faster if
I have an MBA, or I'll make more money. Was
that kind of a thought or.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It was it was that, and or I'll figure out
what I actually want to do through this process. I'll
be exposed to a bunch of different things and a
bunch of different people that come from a bunch of
different networks and places, and I'll be exposed to something
that interests me, and if I find something that interests me,
I'm more likely to make money because I'll be passionate
(09:09):
about it. So it was more so that that. It
was more so, I will find something that I like
to do along the way, and if I like to
do something, I'm more likely to make money because anything
you're passionate about, you're going to be more successful at.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, somewhere, Brad, and correct me if I'm wrong. Somewhere
along that journey, at that point, you were doing recipes
and cookie recipes or something, right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, about halfway through through business school, I made my
first cookie. So I started business school in August twenty seventeen.
I make my first cookie A little over a year later,
my first cookie ever in November twenty eighteen. I graduated
December twenty nineteen. So I was in business school for
about a year. I made my first cookie, and about
a year later I was done.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So and we're not talking, by the way, you bought
frozen dough from Nesley toldhouse you were experimenting at your
house with recipes, right.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, So first cookie, I was just getting ready to
go to my mom's house for Thanksgiving, So it was
November twenty eighteen, and she asked me to bring something
and I think it was dessert, and pumpkin pie is
the obvious choice, but I have pumpkin pie every Thanksgiving,
so I wanted something different. But I also love pumpkin things,
so I just googled pumpkin desserts and luckily a pumpkin
(10:24):
cookie recipe came up. I was like, oh, that looks
like fun. I've always been a good cook so but
I've never baked anything, so I always want to do
it myself. So I made that cookie recipe. I took
it to my mom's. I had probably ten to fifteen
cookies over the two days I was there, and I
came back and I just kept I kept making cookies,
and I kept tweaking the recipes, and I kept googling
stuff about cookie recipes. And then I started doing the
(10:46):
controlled experiments where I'd hold everything constant and change one ingredient,
And by doing that a bunch of times, I started
learning what each of the individual ingredients did, and I
was able to create a recipe that was my own.
And so after about three months of doing that, that's
where it. Because I'm like these cookies are really good?
Who won't buy these? And you can't really get this
anywhere around here? You know, this was back in twenty eighteen.
(11:08):
This was before the landscape we live in now with
cookie brands everywhere, right right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So where where was it where the light bulb went off? Brad?
You seem like a very i mean obviously very intelligent,
but confident too. Where did the light bulb go off
where you told yourself, Hey, I I got something here,
I could do this.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah it was so that was probably about February or
March of twenty nineteen. And honestly, I consider myself a
very in general average person. I think I have the
emotions of an average person. I think I have the
palette of an average person. I think I just think
like the average person. And so I'm trying this, and
I'm just like, this is objectively good. You know, there's
(11:54):
things that we can all agree on taste really good.
And I was like, this is one of them. So
and I can't get this anywhere, so like, and this
is cool, this is fun to me. I like, I've
always liked to cook. When I was young, my parents
if there was anything I wanted to do when I
was young, it was own a restaurant because I've I've
been cooking. I think I cooked myself my first meal
(12:14):
when I was about five years old. Wow, what was it?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, So to say cook my own meal is a
is a interesting way to put it. Basically, like my
dad would always buy those like little pre made pizza
dough and I would just throw sauce and cheese and pepperoni.
But when you're five years old, that's cooking for yourself.
So that was the first thing I did. We'd make
homemade pizzas with pre made dough. But then like I
started making myself scrambled eggs, and I started it was
(12:40):
just one notch up. And then by the time I
was in college, I was cooking for myself all the time.
Stuff that you know, an average college kid wouldn't do,
Like I had a smoker in my backyard in college,
like barbecuing, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, So okay, I'm seeing it now. I'm seeing that
now that you let that out. Okay, So you clearly
love to cook from an early age. There is differences
between cooking and baking. Do you prefer baking versus cooking?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I far prefer cooking over baking, because the thing with baking,
and here's the difference is baking is literally a science
that there's especially cookies and most baked goods. When you
introduce that baking powder or that baking soda, think about
the science class you did with a volcano. You mix
baking soda and forget what it is and the volcano erupts.
(13:32):
That's essentially what's happening in the oven. There's a chemical
reaction that occurs that's releasing air, and you can't really
change things once you start that chemical reaction. Once you
put that that item in the oven and make your settings,
the process is started and you can't go in there.
But think about when you're making even a burger on
the grill or eggs in a pan. You can turn
(13:52):
up the heat, you can turn down the heat, you
can move things around. You don't you can't do that
in baking. It's kind of set it, cross your fingers
that it comes out good, and then make your tweaks
after that. But you can't make tweaks along the way.
So that and that's why I don't like it, because
I can fix things I'm doing wrong when I'm cooking
or I'm grilling.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah, Brad, that might be one of the best
ways I've ever heard that described before.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The difference. Yeah, and it was a kid. We can
all kind of think about that experience we had as
a kid.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
I've never heard it described to me like that before.
Probably the best one ever. I never thought about it
that way either. So then, so when did you decide, Brad, Hey,
I want to because I want to get to the name.
But when did you decide this is going to be
a company. I think I can do this.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Let's let's yeah, March, so March twenty nineteen, okay, and
then I formed. At that point, it's like, okay, what
do I do? Never started a company before? And so
then I started going through you know, really just googling.
At that point, what's the first thing I need to do?
So I file the paperwork with the with the state
to form an LLC, and then I file paperwork at IRS,
(15:02):
get your EI in, and then I open up a
bank account. And at that point there's no playbook. You
can do that stuff. And now that I've done it,
you do that stuff in twenty minutes. And then it's like, okay,
where do I start first? And Where I started first
was really really nailing down the recipes and figuring out
what the brand was and then kind of a launch
(15:24):
plan and like how am I going to sell this?
So it's like what is the product? Like how good
can I get this product? What's the name and what
does it mean? And how am I going to convince
people to buy these? And where am I going to
have people buy these?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
If someone and I'm sure they have come to you
and said, hey, I want to start my own company, Brad,
what do I do first? Would you tell them figure
out what you want to sell or what you want
to create product first?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Or yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I think for branding first, I think it's why first.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Why. There's kind of two whys. There's why are you
doing it? So what is your why? And why should
anyone care? Why does someone else care about what you're
going to do? But what you're going to sell, whether
it's a service or a good. And I think if
you can't answer those questions to start, then I think
it would be a little bit lost. So I knew
(16:17):
what my why was, and I knew why I thought
people would buy this. My why for why should people
buy this was one? It's amazing and two, there's nothing
like it right now, so it's kind of simple. And
then what was my why was? I always, from the
beginning until now, have always liked the idea of creating
opportunities for others and in doing so, I can create
(16:40):
opportunities for myself. So that's always been a huge motivator
for growth for me. Because every dollar we make, every
incremental dollar more we make, I'm one step closer to
offering someone a promotion that provides them the freedom to
do something they haven't been able to do before. So
a really quick example that is marketing girl Nam's Emily.
(17:01):
You know, she started off with me as a team
member about three years ago. She's doing a career switch,
started off as a team member, has been promoted I
don't know, three or four times out over the last
three years to where she became marketing manager and because
of that opportunity, she was able to start a family recently,
so she just had her first kid. And it's like
(17:22):
stuff like that that really motivates me. So that was
always my why from the beginning. And what does that
have to do with selling cookies, I don't know, but
I had something that motivated me.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
That's refreshing. By the way, as someone who works for
corporate America that you don't hear that very often.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, it's funny, it's it's really a good feeling. I mean,
even a boss in a big corporate something like that,
Like I imagine most supervisors and bosses enjoy the enjoy
the opportunities they get to speak to their director ports
and say hey, I'm offering you a promotion, yeah, and
a significant raise like that feels good unless you're just
a cold person. But most of that feel was good to.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Hey, Brian, why don't we talk about the name Lion
Cubs cookies for a sec. The name derived from your childhood.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah it was. It was my dad's nickname for me
as a kid.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
So Lion was Lion lying Cubs.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah yeah. So I had crazy hair, like you know,
akin to a lion's man. And then my energy was
insane and I was just I got in a lot
of trouble as a kid. I was always doing bad stuff,
as you can imagine with my my first business. And
so between the energy and off the walls, running around
(18:37):
doing that kind of stuff, getting in trouble, plus the hair,
my dad always say I'm going to the petting zoo.
He pet my hair. It's like, you know the lion
cub here, you know? So that that was? Uh?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Was that was that your friend? Did you have multiple
names or was lion Cubs the first that?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So I had a ton of ideas. I struggled with
the name for months. I couldn't think of anything good.
Some of the stuff I was coming up with a
super eric. And then I got some advice from someone
who's now my mentor. He's like, just start thinking about
stuff from your childhood and just write it all down
and then eventually something will click. And as I was
in a car and was jotting stuff on my phone,
anything and everything I could think of for my childhood.
(19:15):
And I remember when I wrote down line Cup. I
was with my brother and I like tapped him, like
showed him my phone and he saw a line couver
it down. He kind of like nod has head. Because
at that point we knew what we knew what the
brand needed to be, we knew what the customer, the
average customer was, and we knew that I could I
could turn this into something that would really resonate with
(19:37):
our with our target customer. Love that, Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
The Uh, So did you design the actual logo of
the car?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I had a childhood friend helped me design it, and
then another friend of mine helped me get the colors
just right.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So you created this company a year before the pandemic, right,
I know you said earlier on the podcast about how
after the pandemic, like a floodgate of different things came
out baking wise, different entrepreneurs. So a year later when
the pandemic hit, what happened with the company? How were
(20:16):
I mean, did sales skyrocket? Tell us about that moment
in time?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So first time I sold a cookie was December twenty nineteen.
If you remember, things started closing down in March twenty twenty.
The weekend of the Arnold was kind of the big
Like that was the first moment I think in Columbus
where we're like, oh, this is no longer just a headline,
this is now really interesting. They've they've shut down the Arnold.
So we had done six pop ups at the North
(20:41):
Market downtown prior to the shutdown. We actually had a
pop up on the day the Sunday of the Arnold,
and that still went on because the North Market was
still open. Most everything else was still open. You know,
a couple of days later everything shuts down. At that point,
we had basically three options. Number one was waited out,
(21:01):
and at that point a lot of people were of
that mindset two weeks, three weeks, this will be over. Yeah.
Looking back and it's like, well, thank god we didn't
choose that route. Option two was to do you know,
weighed out and do more pop ups because you can't
do pop ups now because everything's closed. Option two is
do pick up. But that wasn't a good option either
because we were working out of a shared kitchen space
(21:22):
in a not great neighborhood. You know, had barbour fence
and gay and access. You can't really do pick up there.
It was a shared kitchen too, a shared, huge industrial kitchen.
Option three was delivery. Mind you were a company who
had just started. And this is where it got really impressive.
Like we built an in house delivery for us in
a month. And at that point I had three employees,
(21:43):
two of them had lost their jobs. And this is
what really pushed it for me was and then this
goes back to my why to them. They kind of
came to me one night after we were making dough.
They're like, hey, we got laid off, it can you
keep us busy? Like, we don't really want to file
for unemployment. There those type of people, so kudos, and
mind you, They're working with me for about three to
four hours a week, so I'm not exactly a meaningful
(22:05):
employer at this time and I just got started. So
at that point, I'm like, Okay, I can keep my
people busy if we do delivery. But we didn't do delivery.
How everyone else did it was use the apps, because
that would have defeated the purpose for me. I was
doing delivery to keep my people busy and give them
an opportunity. Yeah, so we quickly turned our website and
do an e commerce website. I found a bunch of
(22:25):
integrated solutions where we could do deliveries from our phone
using apps like your basically delivery management apps. And yeah,
and delivery took off, I mean like and so to
the point where that was March, I was able to
quit my job in May. Two months later it had
gotten so amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, it is selling and no disrespect here, but selling cookies.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, Yeah, and are extremely inconvenient and ordering and delivery model,
which I want it into because it's too much detail,
but it was very inconvenient. It was difficult to order,
but people went for it. It was kind of the
perfect storm and we ended up growing really, really a
ton in that period of.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Wow, Brad, did you ever think during that time to yourself,
were you ever unsure? Did you ever think what if
I got myself into? Did you ever ask yourself? I
don't know the answer to this or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
To be more honest, I think I'm more unsure the
more I've done it than in the early days because
in the early days, like everything simple, there's not a
whole lot of stuff going on, and the stakes aren't
as high. I employed two or three people. Now I
employ forty five fifty people. Wow. And every time we grow,
(23:44):
we get a little bit more complex, and it's kind
of like a fan effect. There's more and more stuff
that I have to be cognitant of. And this is
my first time doing this, so I'm being exposed to
more and more things as we grow that I don't
know how to do, which is where I get more
insure myself the more we grows. I've done this enough time,
I know that I can figure it out, or that
I can lean on other people to help me figure
(24:04):
it out, which is honestly been one of the biggest
things in growing is getting to the point where you
can humble yourself and realize that you are not going
to be the expert in everything in your company, and
if you are, you're probably not doing a good job
leading because you probably have too big of an ego.
At some point you have to accept that I'm not
going to be the person that knows this. I need
to let someone else help me.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And were you okay to lean on others or yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
It's yeah, because especially when you have you know, some
really really motivated people, they're just waiting for that opportunity
to show you how much they can learn and how
quick they can do it.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I think I know, Brad, But what what's your leadership style?
What do you like if I'm working for you?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well, I'd like to say I've never once raised my
voice in anyone, which is which is nice. I've been
doing this for six years. I've never raised my voice
in anyone. So I'm definitely calm. I will to some degree.
I give people opportunities and sometimes I don't give them
a ton of direction, but that's kind of by design.
I kind of want to see what they're going to
(25:07):
do on their own. And I definitely pick my battles
and I've learned that, like, only pick your battles on
the things that are important to you. And that's where
it's like, determine what your core values are. And that's
where I think core values actually mean something when you're
running a business, you know, not just words on a wall.
It's okay, what where are you going to pick your battles?
Where are you going to improve most? Where are you
(25:28):
going to draw the line on what you'll accept and
what you want out of people? And that should be
like your core values. So I give people leeway to
learn on their own and I'll kind of let them
ask me more than I definitely don't micromanage, that's for sure.
I think some of them would wish I would more,
But yeah, I think that's my style.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
What Brad is, I mean, you're human, So what upsets you?
What disappoints you when someone falls short of because clearly
you have expectations.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, it's laziness. Honestly, It's it's like when I know
you know what to do, and I know what you
you know what the right thing is and you chose
not to do it. That really bothers me. From every
level of the organization, from from a team member to
anyone who has significant responsibility. It's one thing if you
can plead ignorance, but even that sometimes frustrates me. But
(26:25):
I think that's less of frustration when someone complete ignorance.
I'm like, why didn't you ask for help? It's frustrating,
but I get it. Some people don't want to ask
for help because they think it makes them look dumb,
when in reality, the person who asks the most questions
I immediately think is the smartest person in the room.
But it's really if you know what to do and
you don't do it that really really angers me.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So here we are coming up on what almost six
years later after you sold your first cookie.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
How how is business for Lion Cubs?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
It's good? Yeah, good. We have two locations and we're
in the very early stages of looking for a third.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And that is your main one. Is it Grand View?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Is it Earth? I don't know. I mean that's the
oldest one. That one's been there for about four and
a half years one and Worthington has been there for
a little over a year and a half. So yeah,
we've got both stores in a pretty good spot to
the point where we're definitely ready for a third And
it's just a matter of when and where and can't
really force real estate. You can't force. If you do
(27:27):
force it, you might make a bad decision, right, those
are really big mistakes.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
With you know, you're a small company, But do you
still are you still doing research on Okay, what part
of town could really use my business? Where could line
cubs thrive? Are you do you look into all that research?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
But real estate is such a complex game that you know,
every time I look for a new site, I learn
more about what what a good site looks like and
what my resources are to figure out what a good
site is. So I'm going through that process right now,
and I'm learning. I'm better equipment I was the second time,
and the second time I was better equipman I was
the first time. So learning as I go, for sure.
(28:07):
And yeah, it's fun. I really like the real estate
side of things. It's really fun. It's like you're looking
for a Neil and a Hayes act to some degree
because everyone else is looking for good sites too. Yeah,
it's like what fits your brand and will you be
the first to act on it.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's amazing. And also to see where Columbus is at
now from when I first moved here in like nineteen
ninety nine, it's insane. The real estate and where we're
at now. It's Yeah, they don't they don't call Columbus
cowtown anymore, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah. No, it helps being in a market like this
that is growing. You know, for example, Cleveland where I
grew up, like Cleveland on average is shrinking over time. Yeah,
Combas is not right. You know, the population of Combus
is growing, and it's just good macro business to be
in those areas.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, great place to be. So look, I want to
get to philanthropy a little bit too. You are heavily
involved with the Ronald McDonald house Nationwide Children's Hospital Pelotonia.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, so Nationwide is definitely the biggest partner we have,
and a couple of times ago I was meeting with them.
They gave me a tour of their main hospital and
they took me through the donor wall room where it's
like all these hundreds of businesses have their names on
the wall. Some more prominently shown than others. And I
was like, how much how much you have to donate
to have your name on this wall? And she tells
(29:32):
me a number. I'm like, we're only a couple thousand
away from that, which is like that was about a
year and a half ago, which is kind of crazy
to think about. At that point, I've only been in
business for three and a half four years. I'm like,
I've donated so much money to Nationwide that I'm only
a couple thousand having my name on the wall there.
And that's just one place. So in twenty twenty four alone,
(29:53):
we donated over sixty thousand dollars in monetary and product
donations for a two low cation business. Like that's an
insane number. So we work a lot with different organizations
in town. There's a couple we work with very closely,
like Nationwise definitely number one. We've done some stuff for
(30:14):
rom McDonald house, you know, after Nationwide, it's all kind
of the same for us. There's like a second tier
at Pelotonia, Ron McDonald house, Dave Thomas Foundation, a couple
hours like that, and then we work with several PTOs
around town as well, do fundraisers for them donate cookies
for teacher Appreciation Day stuff like that. So we're super
(30:35):
out there and it's more than just we're going to
write a check, right, We're physically out there, Like we're
at the Spring Flings and the Fall Fest, and we're
at the Pelotonia Main Ride event, and we're at a
fundraising event that they have at Columbus Zoo. Like we're
physically showing up and doing those things. And we're going
to Holiday and the Heights in Grand View and there's
(30:55):
another cookie decorating holiday. Think we're doing in wardingkon. We're
setting up a table having kids that great cookies for free.
Like there's nothing in it for us monetarily, right, other
than good exposure of course, but it's more so about
creating a nice experience for people and just being out there,
visible in the community. So super big on that.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, well, and you love to do it. As someone
who has done charity work philanthropy for most of my life,
I've noticed and there's nothing wrong with this. No nonprofit
is ever going to turn someone away for cutting a check.
But there would you agree there are differences between someone
(31:32):
who just wants to cut a check and wants to help.
That's okay, But then there are people like you who
want to do product and monetary but you also care
very much. It sounds like you're very passionate.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah. I have no interest in just writing a check,
to be totally honest, And when people approach us for that,
like these kind of sponsorship packages, if I'm interested at all,
my response is kind of always the same as, Hey,
we're interested in this kind of write you a check
for a sponsorship thing if we can do something more.
(32:05):
And what that do something more as varies paying on
the organization. Yeah, but it definitely involves like some person
to person interaction. So that's usually always our thing is.
And we have a PTO and Worthington we work with that. That
was kind of the situation and now we're in super
deep with them. They sent us a sponsorship package when
we first opened. It was kind of hey, you get
your name here and we'll put your name on the
(32:26):
T shirt there, and I was like, yeah, we'll do this,
but I'd like to do a couple more things too.
I'd like to be at these events, and of course
they're all for it. I was like, because when we
do I'm like, I like to be at these events
you're doing, and I like to do some fundraising there too,
so they're like, well, of course we'd love to have
you there. So it's kind of a double win for them.
So that's kind of how we approach this.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, absolutely, Brad. As we wrap up here, I know
you talked about the potential of a third location. What
are some of the other goals for Lion Cubs Cookies
in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Oh? Man, So, I mean my ultimate goal is to
you know, eventually I'll get bored of this, and.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
What does that mean? You'll sell it or what?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Let's just use a sale, you know, I I eventually
that that's definitely an option or step away and offer
someone else's role to take over the company. Hey, you
run the company and I'll still be a shareholder and yeah,
that'll be cool for them, would be cool for me.
But what about you? Then?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
What do you? What do you do?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I go do something else? Yeah, I mean I stay involved, but.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
You mean starting another company or.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Maybe yeah, I don't know. I just I know myself.
I know over time, my interests always fluctuate. Yeah, so
but let's just use like, if I'm able to sell
the company, here's what I like most about that, and
my mentor did the same thing. My mentor was the
founder of Raising kines O Hi. We got to think
to roughly fifty locations before he sold, And what he
did when he sold back to cour was he wrote
(34:01):
a check, a large check to many the people around
him that helped them get it to what it was
at that time, even though they didn't officially have equity. Yeah,
it was you know, it was life changing money for them,
life changing money. And I really want the opportunity if
I sell the company to do that with the people
that are, you know, instrumental in helping us get there.
(34:22):
I mean that that's the aultimate feeling right there, especially
they're not expecting it, and then when you're just seeing
their eyes like this is for me and like it
changed it truly would change their life. Yeah, And that's
when I go back to my why is creating opportunities
for others. So being able to give someone else an
opportunity is a really really strong motivator for me.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Brett has the thought of franchise come up?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yes, And it was actually a conversation I was having
just two days ago at lunch, because you know that
franchising is a growth model. It can if if we're
talking about getting the ten twenty locations, it can get
you there way quicker than if you're doing it on
your own. For a lot of reasons. It's a little
scary though, because you lose control. I can't just walk
into a store and make that's being done wrong. We
(35:08):
need to change it. I'm not their boss. I'm just
licensing them the use of my brand at that point
in my processes. So I think that becomes more of
a serious conversation once we start looking outside of Columbus.
I think there's a couple more we can do in Columbus,
and then when we enter a new market, franchising is
probably a little bit more of a conversation there. But
I'm more open to it now than I was two
years ago, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
We talked a little bit earlier about as we wrop
up here, Brad. You know, e commerce early on is
what started things with sales. What you know, besides the store,
can we go to your Instagram? Can we go to
the website and just order right there?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, you can go on the website. You can do
catering through our website. Pick up or delivery through our website.
Even our catering we deliver it. We do a ton
of catering orders. We just did three massive catering orders
for like Worthington Enterprises for example. Wow, we do. Yeah,
we do a ton of catering for Ohouse State University football.
I just dropped off in order personally to UH for
coach day last week.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, that's gotta be cool.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
It is pretty cool. We have another one coming up
next week. So yeah, you can order through our website.
You can definitely find us on social media, so yeah,
handles at lyon cubs Cookies, Instagram. TikTok. Tiktok' a little
bit more of a newer platform for us. We're actually
in some pretty good traction yeah recently, so we're super
active on there.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Do you feel as a business too with social media?
I'm not on TikTok, but I do understand the power
of it. Are you told as like a business owner? Hey,
you got to try to be everywhere possible? Or what?
What was your thought process to add TikTok to it?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I think when TikTok got started, it was like, Eh,
what's this? You know a couple of years ago, think
we're like this is this is like Vine, right Vine?
That was kind of what everyone was saying. This is
like Vine, it's a flash in the panel, go away.
Instagram is still king. It's too big to ignore right now.
You could argue it's bigger than Instagram, so you have
(37:07):
to be there. It's like one of those things where like,
if you're not on Instagram right now, what are you doing?
And it's I think it's now it's It's definitely at
a point it's been at a point where if you're
not on TikTok, what are you doing as a business,
especially because if if you want to reach a younger audience,
that's where they are. The younger audience is not on
Instagram as much, and the platforms are very different. We're
learning like the content that works on one and I'll
(37:29):
put it simply, we're finding this out. But what we're
starting to hypothesize for our business is or is TikTok
the food, porn, the super product related stuff does not
work there. People want to hear from people on TikTok.
People want to hear stories. They want you to be transparent,
they want to know the people behind the business. Where
(37:49):
that isn't quite as necessary on TikTok, right, it still works,
I'm sorry, on Instagram. That still works on Instagram and
works very well on Instagram. But I think I feel
like TikTok almost requires.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
It, right, the storytelling.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
One hundred percent, and that's what's working. And a lot
of a lot of other creators and accounts that we've
kind of studied, that's been kind of one of the
main themes is there's like there's a one or two
or three main protagonists of this account that the people
on in the Internet have formed a relationship with. And
(38:24):
and you know that that probably says something about about
the younger generation of kind of how they're different from
from me being a millennial. Yeah, I don't know that
we require that as much.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
You know, what you just said reminded me of something
I saw on an interview a couple of weeks ago
Shark Tank's mister Wonderful Yeah, and he said something very
similar to what you just said, but but he went
a little deeper with it, saying that if if you're
a business, and if you're not on social media, if
you're not on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook, but especially
(38:55):
Instagram at TikTok. He's like, I will not invest in you. Yeah,
he's like, because in twenty two twenty five, your brand
needs to be on those social media plays if you
want to survive, if you want to survive in the future,
they have to beat. Your business has to be on
those platforms for sure, or I don't want to talk
to you. He said, yeah, yeah, I thought that was interesting. So,
(39:17):
Brad Kaplan, who is the forest behind line Cubs Cookies,
Thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation.
Congrats on all of your success and really nice to
meet you.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Likewise, looking forward to listening to the podcast and was done.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
CEOs You Should Know is hosted and produced by Brandon Boxer,
a production of iHeartMedia Columbus
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