January 8, 2026 • 43 mins
Humanoid robots have been folding laundry, lifting boxes and demonstrating new AI-powered capabilities at CES but their future in homes is likely still far away. Jan Liphardt, founder and CEO of OpenMind and professor of bioengineering at Stanford University, discusses the outlook for AI robots with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow on “Bloomberg Tech” from CES in Las Vegas.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eda Loow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to a special edition of Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We are live from CS in Las Vegas, where we've
been tracking the biggest tech stories. Another great lineup of
incredible guests today, but we've also got some news outside.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Of CS right then, Yeah, Coming up first, China plans
to approve some imports of Nvidia's eight two hundred ships
as soon as this quarter for select commercial use.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Plus AI evaluations, pushing ever higher anthropic raising a new
round of funding that would value the company at three
hundred and fifty billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
And we wrap this special CES edition today with guests
from the robotics and augmented reality spaces, venture Capital and the.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
First we check in on these markets that are in
a bit of sell off mode. Look anxiety ahead of
those non farm payrolls data that we get tomorrow, and
no one taking on any more risk after what I've
been a really rather nice run up in tech stocks
over the last free trading days.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So today maybe we sell the news.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Today We're off by some six tens of percent, but
all eyes really on one keeper.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, like your chart is showing that actually, you know,
we'd be kind of lower. Wiggling around throughout the early session, Nvidia.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Has taken a significant.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Leg lower this Thursday, it's now off two percent. The
reporting is crystal clear from Bloomberg. According to sources, China's
government will approve some Chinese tech companies taking H two hundreds.
That sources are giving details on which companies, But the
crystal clear line is has to be commercial use, cannot
(01:48):
be military, cannot be some government, cannot.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Be state backed enterprise.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Let's get out to Washington, DC and Bloomberg Senior Tech
editor Mike Shephard, there's a lot of specifics in this report.
Give us those specifics, what we know about the companies involved,
and also the volumes, because that's going to matter to
the stock.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
Well, the volumes are a little bit unclear as far
as what the Chinese government would approve, but we already
are getting some signals according to our reporting that companies
like Byteedance and by Do would be interested in buying
up to two hundred thousand Nvidia H two hundred chips
each once those approvals go through. Now it's unclear whether China,
(02:30):
the authorities in Beijing, will allow those kinds of quantities
right away into the market. And it's important to remember
also that look, there are restrictions still in place here
from the US. Even with President Donald Trump's verbal blessing
for this, we still need to see licenses emitted by
the Commerce Department. That process is still underway. Jensen Wong
(02:50):
and your interview with him the other day indicated that
he was optimistic that those would go through, and likewise
this would affect AMD, which also has chips that is
is hoping to get into China as well.
Speaker 7 (03:02):
Look for in Vidio.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
This is a big win if it all goes through.
As we are outlining in this report, China is the
world's biggest semiconductor market, and Jensen Wong has identified it
as a fifty billion dollar opportunity for the company.
Speaker 7 (03:16):
And the timing is crucial.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
They are facing intensifying competition from rivals inside China, including
camera Con and SMIC, which are making strides in the
development of their own homegrown semiconductors, and we have also
seen signals from authorities in Beijing that they would like
local companies to start favoring domestic alternatives to in video
(03:38):
over whatever it might be coming from the US.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Mike Shepherd, as always, thank you so much. From Washington.
We're going to stick with a theme of.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
AI, of course we are, but this time I'm going
to look at it from valuation perspective. Ed because Athropic
the latest news that it's outlooking and raising some ten
billion dollars is.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Before that raise value.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Therefore, at three hundred and fifty billion dollars, we know
open Ai is out there also raising funds could be
as whopping as seven hundred and fifty billion dollars. All
of this is we I potentially these companies coming to
the public.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Markets as well.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I've been speaking to some of the investors backing this
round ten billion dollars, three hundred and fifty billion dollar valuation.
They don't have the scale that open ai has right,
but they've gone after the enterprise. And the way that
one investor put it to me is there are four
players right now, open Ai, Xai, Anthropic, and Google. There's
probably only room in the real world for three. But
(04:29):
it's interesting to see them continue.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Raise and just how sophisticated they are when it comes
to the coding side of the equation that really seems
to have been.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Where they've made their mark.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But also they're trying to say that they are well
the safer, more focused on ethics in some ways they
split off from open ai to remember that's what their
origin story is.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
And in your interview with he Montonees, you're getting a
lot of credit for that coding.
Speaker 8 (04:50):
Piece as well.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Another big story of the morning, and it's a jostling
for position once again, we're looking at the market cap
of Google or Alphabet the parent Google rising above Apple.
Speaker 8 (05:02):
What did I just say?
Speaker 4 (05:03):
In this world order four players right now? Alphabet and
Google have really accelerated in recent months, both literally from
a stock performance perspective, but also just I guess by
news flow and reputation and Apple it's a different game, right.
But yeah, this is one that I didn't see coming
last year or at least as you know, at any
(05:24):
point that.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Story, that TVU story just changed everything didn't and the
vertical integration.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Okay, coming up, humanoid robotics takes shape right here at CEES.
We're going to discuss the future of physical AI with
Jan Liphart, founder and CEO of open mind a's next.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Here at ces Physical AI is breaking through to the
mainstream with humanoid robotics taking set of stage. Joining us
is Yan Lipart, founder and CEO of open Mind, a
startup building an parading system design to connect, coordinate, and
scale intelligence across all thinking machines. There are so many
things to take away from being here this week. Let's,
(06:10):
I think, focus on the humanoid robot form factor at least,
but your main impression with those on display, I think
Atlas is probably top of mind for many. Last night
when I was here with Boston Dynamics CEO wrote place
the weights to go and see Atlas was two hours.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
What do you make of that?
Speaker 9 (06:29):
Well, just a few years ago, the robots here were
kind of yanky, they were wobbly, and they had wires
coming out of their head, and they looked like science experiments.
And it's really fascinating to see just how quickly humanoids
are turning into a real product. And Atlas is of
course just one of those. So instead of them being
(06:52):
science experiments, they look like real things that you might
want to have in your home or in your workplace.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
You're also a.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Professor at Stanford, And you know, the academic discussion here,
which I've loved, has been, hey, guys, we think we've solved.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
The software problem. Have we solved the software problem?
Speaker 9 (07:13):
Well, when people talk about humanoids, everyone has a different
picture of what.
Speaker 8 (07:19):
The humanoid is going to do.
Speaker 9 (07:21):
If you're talking about a humanoid for a hospital, that's
a totally different situation compared to a humanoid flipping hamburgers
or teaching kids math.
Speaker 8 (07:31):
So it really depends on the point.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
We're moving a box from one part of the tables
the other part of the table is no longer impressive.
Speaker 8 (07:37):
So that's completely solved.
Speaker 9 (07:38):
And Amazon has one point one million robots deployed already,
so the logistics pick in place is effectively solved. One
frontier is what you might call social robotics. So these
are the robots that will live with you, and they
will teach your kids, and they will help your parents.
And that is still more different because there's a lot
(08:02):
of what we expect when we interact with people, their
ability to make us laugh and speak and be quick
and so forth. That is still difficult. But basics like
picking things up, that's solved.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
When we think about the solution of integration.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
A lot of companies want to talk about how they're
the vertically integrated company. They are making not just the hardware,
but the software too. So where are you getting an
in how many of these fourteen humanoids we see here
at CES are you putting your open software to work in?
Speaker 8 (08:28):
Well, it's about half of them.
Speaker 9 (08:31):
And for many humanoid robotics companies, they have a traditional
focus on hardware and they're seeing the software move extremely quickly,
and some of them have the sense that they don't
have the inherent capability to also be at the frontier
of the software, and that's where we're getting traction for us.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I want to go back to the very thesis of
whether you want a humanoid at all. Buston Dynamics perspective
is in the interim we have manufacturing units that are
purpose built for robots. Humanoid makes sense because it has
to work side along humans and augment them or at
least replace them eventually.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Maybe that's not the form factor we want.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I don't think I want a form factor of humanoid
in my home, to be perfectly frank, you're seeing a
lot more of these sort of soft, cuddly toys for
companionship and the way that they talk. What will robots
look like in the future.
Speaker 9 (09:22):
Well, I have a humanoid at home and my kids
casual and my humanoid. My kids thinks that is totally
normal because for them, they've seen that for literally two
years now. And however, when I talk to my mom,
I sent my mom some videos of the humanoids here
(09:45):
iris iris iris. No, this is hardware developed by someone else.
Of course, it's running the software I wrote, which is
why I trust it, because I know exactly what's going
on inside the humanoid. But yeah, I sent my mom
some videos of humanoids around here, and she said, Yanni,
I'm shocked. This is awesome. So to your original point,
(10:09):
what is the right form factor? What's special about a
humanoid is that they're by definition compatible with your home,
a hospital, school, workplace, door handles, light switches, stairs, so
they can immediately be effective in all the infrastructure that
humans have built for us.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
This is why it's important to get as far as
you can be an objective take on the state of industry.
Right the problem we started the segment though, saying it's
broken through to the mainstream. Actually, there is a lot
of fatigue, just like there was with ROBOTAXI. We've been
saying it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. What I see
is in the industrial use cases, it's there. But one
(10:49):
thing that came up with us a lot this week,
care of the elderly. Yeah, are we really in a
position where overnight humanoid robots are going to solve what
is a massive addressable market?
Speaker 9 (10:59):
Well to some people that sounds dystopian and creepy. Is
it something you imagined that your parents would interact with robots?
But some of the companies building robots for memory care facilities,
like Andromeda in San Francisco and Australia, the stories they
(11:22):
tell are heartbreaking, where nurses now have to clean the
head of the humanoid every evening because the patients will
kiss the humanoid. So the nurses now have to remove
lipstick off the head of humanoid. And so for many
people that are starved of human interaction, they get so
(11:42):
attached to the humanoid and their eyes light up and
they laugh and they will kiss the head of the humanoid.
And so there's definitely something there. And for most people
in retirement homes here in the US, they haven't been
visited by their family members in a year or more so,
it's a group of people that are really starved for
any kind of interaction, and some of them really seem
(12:05):
to love the technology.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I mean, yeah, and that speaks to a greater problem
in humanity writ large, I want your take, if I
dare go back to open mind itself, where do you
make your money?
Speaker 7 (12:16):
Ah?
Speaker 9 (12:17):
Well, we have a little bit of a different take
on humanoids. We don't want them to be closed. We
don't want them to be these magic boxes that show
up at your front door. We think of them much
more like cell phones that are open and where developers
everywhere can add apps or skills that will allow your
(12:37):
humanoids to do many more things very quickly. And so
it's very important to us that this technology is not
like this magic black box, but it's something that most
of us understand can engage with and build for.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Great catching up with you, Thank you for spending some time.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, and I've found our CEO of open Mind speaking
with robots. Well, I got to sit down in Boston
dine to you, Robert Plater, to discuss the company's latest
situation of a humanoid robot that's Atlas, designed to work
in hyndized manufacturing plants studying in twenty twenty eight, including
a factory in Savannah, Georgia.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Thank listen.
Speaker 10 (13:12):
By twenty twenty eight, Hyundai's going to build us a
purpose built factory designed for mass manufacture of our humanoids,
and that's going to have a capacity of between ten
and thirty thousand units per year, And so that's the goal.
By twenty thirty, we'll be building tens of thousands of
robots per year.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I've always wanted to ask you, and I'm going to
ask you your analysis and impressions of Tesla's Optimist program
and your assessment of what they're doing and what they've done.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Well.
Speaker 10 (13:39):
I think they're a very serious competitor. They've done a
lot of very impressive work. They also have the advantages
we have that they have a consumer in Tesla to
use those robots internally.
Speaker 7 (13:53):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
Think it really requires both aspects. You need the technology
from robotics AI, you also need that customer and that consumer,
and so automotive is a natural fit and so I
think Tesla is actually very well placed to succeed here
as well.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
That was Boston Dynamics SEO Robert Playton coming up here
on the show. Next, X Reel revamped its ar glasses.
Is the wearable space is seeing more competition. We speak
with x Real CEO Czu.
Speaker 8 (14:24):
That's next.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
This is Bloomberg Tech. AI will bring out a renaissance
to the field of music. That's according to Grammy.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
Winning a artist.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Will I am also the founder and CEO of f
Yi dot Ai.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Bloombers Text.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Tom McKenny sat down with him for this week's episode
of Bloomberg Tech Europe, taking a deep dive into how
AI is shaking up the music industry and the streaming
business model.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
Listen to this.
Speaker 11 (14:56):
It's a renaissance the same way the renaissance, you know, calapulted,
you know, dimensionalize the creative industry in the past, the renaissance.
There's a new renaissance to do it for this era
that we're in. So it's it's the age of the hypercreative.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Go catch that episode of Bloomberg Tech Europe this Friday
here on Bloomberg Television eight thirty am in London. That's
three thirty in the morning on you in the East Coast.
But it's worth getting up for. Trust me, Carrow, what's up.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Meanwhile, let's pivot to the world as smart eyewear. Because
we're talking with x Real. They've just unveiled new entry
level al glasses that come at the cheaper price point
dub the one S. The new glasses boast a one
two hundred pet resolution with a new price of four
hundred and twenty nine dollars. X Real CEO Jesus is
here with us now. Congratulations on the unveiled But we've
got some news I want to hit first. Sure, you've
(15:56):
been getting some financing. We understand you're raising money to
be able to put these new glasses at a cheaper
price point.
Speaker 7 (16:01):
I agree.
Speaker 12 (16:02):
Yes, it's getting heated up for the whole race, right
and you know it's getting exciting as well for the
whole industry to really see glasses can really be the
next competing platform pair with AI. You know, I think
at some point they can truly replace the cell phone
we're using today.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Going back to the financing, Yeah, raised about one hundred million.
Able to disclose what valuation. Who's backing you?
Speaker 5 (16:24):
So okay?
Speaker 12 (16:24):
I would say at this moment it's mainly some play
chain partners and some key vendors. You know, at this
moment there's not more information I can share, but definitely later.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
But one hundred million dollars as accurate. Yes, I think
it's a bit of an academic debate to be had here.
I've used that phrase a lot. But is glasses the
right form factor? The raise of CEO is actually on
the program, okay, talking about how headphones might be the
better form factor in AI world. You know you have
(16:54):
options in the wearables category. Yep, is he right wrong?
Speaker 12 (16:59):
Well, okay, so I just met him actually a couple
of days ago. We talk about this as well. We
talk a little bit about that. But for me, you know,
from my perspective, I do think glasses it is the
ultimate conform factor. You know, when we see how we
actually involve going from the big screen to your laptop
to your cell phone, the screen is getting closer and closer,
and what is even closer than your cell phone, it's
(17:21):
probably going to be this display right in front of
your eyes. Right and also, in my opinion, with a
you know, combination of AI, you can actually have AI
assistant seeing your eye, see what you're seeing, feel and
hear what you hear.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
Twenty four to seven.
Speaker 12 (17:36):
If that is actually available, I do believe you know,
there's no other advantage you can compete with the glasses.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Metta is going to set further right and now put
the display in worries you, doesn't worry you.
Speaker 12 (17:50):
No, No, I think you know, it's a great competition.
You know, Meta definitely have a lot of advantages. You know,
they have a lot of investment, great talent, and they
start really really early.
Speaker 7 (17:59):
Right too.
Speaker 12 (18:00):
I think this is big enough market and still I
don't really see the FUM factor kind of converge. So
this is open race for everybody. I'm just excited, you know,
to be part of that journey.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Well, the people we're waiting for their unveil from is Google.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
How are you working alongside Google? How is your relationship deepening?
How is Project Aura?
Speaker 7 (18:18):
Okay, that's a great question. You know.
Speaker 12 (18:20):
This week we just you know, announced that we're depending
the partnership with multi year extension and also name Actual
being the lead hardware partner with Google and Android XR.
And this is really great exciting moments. I think maybe
it's not just one company you're gonna do everything, you
know together, maybe it's kind of a combination. The hardware
is software collaboration at some point and Actual We are
(18:41):
really good at building optical modules, building chips, you know,
and you know Google they're really good at building AI,
building an offering system. So I think, you know, this
is a win win situation for us to team up
together to kind of polish the end to end hardware
and software e cop experiences together.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So do you think it'll almost be like a self
own world in that you have the Google pixel, but
you also have some sung with the Android operating system
and Mirianna others using Android.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So is it going to be Google with their own
hardware and their own and then or you're.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Going to be the hardware partner of choice and then
be some others out there.
Speaker 12 (19:13):
Absolutely, if you remember early on actually Google partner with HTC,
you know, at the very beginning to define the whole
smartphone industry part of it, you know, alongside with Apple,
and then they start to rolling out to LG to
some song and then they have their own pixels, right,
So it's going to be an ecosystem playing We're just
you know, we just feel lucky we got picked by
Google so we can work together being the pioneer to
(19:35):
drive these in industry forward.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
When when projects or glasses come to the real.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
World twenty six, it's going to be this year.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
What does the rollout look like?
Speaker 12 (19:46):
Well, that's something I cannot share at this moment.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
But you go to market, you'll say they're ready, this
is what they look like, this is what they cost.
Speaker 12 (19:53):
They will be available of course, you know, when the
time's ready, we'll release those kind of information.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
There are some other things that you're your bat let
with your latest generation existing x real glasses, right, absolutely, sleeker,
lower price, price is so important, but you are going
up against the market where we have Vision Pro and
other similar products, and then we question immersion and field of.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
View, that's right. What's your response to those questions.
Speaker 12 (20:18):
People start to think about, you know, maybe for Apple
Vinion Pro it is great experience, but the question and
challenges you know, it is too expensive, it is too heavy, right,
so how can we can we come up with something
you know, lighter, more affordable, like, but we can deliver
like eighty percent of that kind of experience. And that's
where you know x U glass is coming about. And
especially if we had the latest generation one as right,
(20:41):
we further kind of a bump up the features. You know,
some of the you know, very unique feature. We say
it's two D to three D lifetime conversion. We're using
our own chip to do this AI conversion in the
real time, and this is amazing. Any kind of content
coming with the glasses, whether it's a cell phone, handhold,
gaming devices, topic can turn into three D in the
(21:02):
real time.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Let's talk about how you've got the price pointed out. Yes,
Is it because you're making your own chip.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Is it a supply chain navigation or are you just
taking a hit from a profit margin?
Speaker 12 (21:12):
No, we just you know, we spend a lot of
effort optimizing this whole supply chain. You know, better year rate,
you know, higher volume. I just kind of going to
help to bring the cost down.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Is it coming from China part of that?
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
And is that a risk an issue given the national
security concerns.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
That's a great question.
Speaker 12 (21:28):
You know, we do have this kind of global supply
chain strategy as well. It can be China, it can
be a part of it can be even in the
US and some.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Day, just very very quickly, yes, this cs you've had
a lot of foot traffic. Yes, just reflects on that
really quick.
Speaker 12 (21:44):
Well, you know, people like glasses and they like to
experience actually even though we've been talking about glasses for
so long, there's still a lot of people they haven't
really tried on any glasses, So I think if this
is still a long kind of education process.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Thanks Real CEO, tees you great heavy back on the
blue tech here at CES, Thank you so much. Coming up,
we're gonna speak with Jacob Helberg, US State Department under
Secretary for Economic Affairs to discuss the state of chip
export curves. The sources say China is now ready to
approve imports of some in Nvidia eight two hundred chips.
The big story from Bloomberg this Thursday, it is halftime.
(22:21):
We are in Las Vegas. This is CS and this
is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. There is
a lot of news that's driving markets irrespective of what's
going on here in Las Vegas. One of them is
(22:41):
the Warner Brothers Discovery situation. Paramounts Guidance came out with
a statement reaffirming their thirty dollars a share offer, but
interesting curR like in the calculus, they're now saying that
the cable networks that they want to include in the.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Deal are worth zero dollars, which is.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Interesting because like a lot of the street and a
lot of the market saying we don't think you're quite
right on that. Remember, Netflix wants to buy just the
studios and streaming spin out the legacy networks and cable offering,
whereas Paramounts Guidance, as we say on bluebo Tech, want
the whole enchilada. Either way, we're still kind of in
a holding pattern until we move forward.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
There's a really big.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Story overnight out of career, and that is Samsung quarterly
profit tripled because memory. We've been talking so much about
the supply constraint and bottleneck that is memory right now,
and pricing goes up, but if you're a memory maker
and pricing goes up to that extent, it's usually pretty
good for your bottom line. The stock down about a
(23:36):
percentage point, but that was the big headline, and it
has been such a focus this week, the issue and
bottleneck that is memory chips, not just in the data
center context, but of course PC as well.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And of course, because Jenson what made that point of sandus,
the shares went wild.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Maybe that's why we're pulling back a little bit on Samsung.
But let's switch gears a little bit because Another key.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Part of our conversation that we had yesterday with Andreil
founder par Malucky was where we discussed US competition with China,
and you first asked him about the compensation package after
President Trump called for capping executive pay with defense contractors
in particular.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Just take a listen.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
One of the provisions that the president proposes is a
salary cap of five million dollars. In the Bloomberg story
outlined some of the comp of those CEOs. Would you
be willing to say what you pay yourself for Anderior,
and if you would abide by I pay.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
Myself one hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
So significantly less than a five million dollar cap.
Speaker 13 (24:31):
True, But I also own a lot of my company,
and so this measure is not really written in a
way where it's intended to hit new companies starting new things.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
You know.
Speaker 13 (24:40):
Act like if Kelly Johnson were alive today and he
owned a bunch of you know, Lockheed Martin or north
from Grummer or Raytheon, I don't think that anyone would
have nearly much of a problem with him.
Speaker 7 (24:49):
Yeah, I pay myself one hundred thousand dollars a year.
That's my compensation. Package.
Speaker 13 (24:53):
I own a bunch of androll because I started the company.
That's so my motivation is to try and build the
biggest thing forossible. I will say people are fairly critiguing
and said, but Palmer, you know, are you really a
neutral party here? Are you really in a position to
comment given you're competing with these companies? And I'd say
two things. One, these measures do apply an equal measure
to me. I now cannot pay dividends. I now cannot
be stock buybacks if I'm not investing in new plans,
(25:14):
if I'm not doing.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
These two things.
Speaker 13 (25:15):
The other thing is it's always tricky when you want
to know, I'm in defense because I wanted to help
solve these problems.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
Right. It's actually the same thing with like mod Retro
in the gaming.
Speaker 13 (25:24):
Space, like, oh, of course Palmer would criticize these other
game companies, after all, he's in the gaming space. It's like, yeah,
but I'm in the gaming space because I want to
solve these problems. It's kind of this like catch twenty two,
Like if you're outside it, they'll say, well, why don't
you do something about it?
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Then?
Speaker 13 (25:39):
And you do something like who cares what you're doing?
You're just part of the problem. It's always been emotionally
difficult for.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Me when we're thinking about where you stand, where US
stands versus China.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yep, where does it intens of drone technology?
Speaker 3 (25:52):
We're in this context of a geopolitical strain that started
this year off with Venezuela.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
We look now to Russia. How do you see China
and the Taiwan question.
Speaker 13 (26:02):
China has an incredibly strong drone industry. It is largely
a result of state intervention. It's largely a result of
industrial policy, of supply chain investments that the government has made. Yeah,
and even trade deals that China has made around the
world to allow for these drones to freely flow out
in other marketplaces. Yeah, China has the best ron industry
in the world. It's not even close. It's definitely a
(26:22):
weakness that the United States has. Now you saw recently
this ban on d jai drones. The intention there is
to try and fix that. You can fix these things.
The US is capable of building drones, it's just we
aren't capable of competing with the labor laws, emissions laws,
energy prices from coal plants, et cetera that you see
in China.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
So I'm hoping that this ban on d Jai drones
results in a.
Speaker 13 (26:44):
Strong US drone market popping up to take its place
over the next one two three years. Androle actually as
a drone that we were showing off in Japan recently
that's made with one hundred percent Japanese parts.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
Japan is another nation that can build their own drones.
Speaker 13 (26:59):
They don't need d but it's hard for that to
make aconomic sense when China's allowed to flow the market.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
That was Annual founder Palmer Lucky for more on the
US relationship with China and the national security concerns behind
semiconductors were joined by Jacob Helberg, US State Department Undersecretary
for Economic Affairs, but also the founder the Hill and
Valley Forum, which we were able to attend last year.
There was something in the in the in the China
(27:28):
context which we didn't get to with Palma, which was
a piece of recent news which President g reiterating, I
would say a long stated goal of reunification with Taiwan.
Speaker 14 (27:41):
Now.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
The reason I want to start there, Jacob, is in
your efforts with Pax Silica. The scenario that everyone is
trying to plan for Taiwan and access to capacity in
the semiconductor side being shut off if that scenario were
to unfold starting twenty twenty six, could you just bring
(28:01):
us your latest thinking on that, please.
Speaker 14 (28:03):
Absolutely, And it's great to join you guys here at
CS in Las Vegas, which is such a great window
into American innovation and innovation from a lot of Paxilica
countries like South Korea and Japan. It's incredibly exciting that
we're talking barely three weeks after the signing of this
landmark declaration. Ultimately, let me put into context why this
(28:24):
is so important and why so many people are talking
about technology competition. But today it's clear that if the
twentieth century ran on steel, the twenty first century is
increasingly running on silicon and compute. And we're already seeing
in the United States the third of our GDP growth
coming from AI and growth picking up and accelerating as
productivity is starting to accelerate growth and sectors across the economy.
(28:48):
So back in July, President Trump ruled out this landmark
speech at an event I co hosted with White House
Aizar David Sachs called Winning the AI Race, where it
was a landmark moment where he declared that the US
is set to win the AI race and that it
is the official policy of the US government to do
whatever it takes. A few months later, I'm happy to
(29:10):
report that at the State Department, we have adopted a
strategy that breaks down this broad goal into three parts.
Speaker 8 (29:17):
We want to help the US.
Speaker 14 (29:18):
Government win the AI race by leading an innovation, by
gaining market share, and by securing our supply chains. So
we launched packed Silica with a group of seven countries
and are the most technologically advanced countries, including Japan, South
Korea which is home to Samsung, es Kheiinix, Mitsubishi, and
we are engaged in a lot of intensive talks to
(29:40):
now transition to the implementation phase of Pasilica in twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
A lot of your anxiety, and you've been at this
for a very long time trying to warn the United
States and those in positions of power now in the
power that you have yourself, that we shouldn't be exopposed
to China in the way that we have been. Now
from a national security perspective, what do you think of
the late that maybe h two hundreds go into China
by this quarter, They might sign off for Ali Baba
(30:06):
for bid to be able to access in videos chips.
Speaker 14 (30:10):
So part of the goal of winning the supply chain
means we need to expand market share. And sometimes there's
a bit of a tension between innovation and diffusion, because
when you diffuse technology, sometimes you're compromising a little bit
on innovation because more people have access to that technology,
which narrows your technological edge. Part of what we're doing
(30:32):
by exporting our h two hundreds is making sure that
the world's developers are building on top of the American stack,
and we want to ensure that American models actually stay
ahead through these strategic bilateral deals in countries in the
Gulf like the UAE, the Saudi Arabia, and a number
of others that are on the way but still too
(30:53):
early to disclose here today, in order to make sure
that our companies have by far the most compute capacity,
so that our l A lamps they had as well.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Jacob on that market share bucket, you know, the concern
that many in DC outline to us is if we
don't take sport to the golf, China will Is that
the right way to think about it for America?
Speaker 14 (31:16):
I think it's an opportunity where there is nature abhors
a vacuum. We have got to fill the vacuum while
we can. We have the world's best technology and the
worlds know that. And ultimately America has thrived when we
allow our innovators to actually dominate market share.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
They did dominate, and video had ninety five percent in
the market and now Jensen to say, has zero and
maybe it's being allowed to claw some back.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Has not the horse bolted?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Have we not already allowed camera con to grow and
our way to grow? Are we really going to be
able to clean back and have the stack of our
own worldwide?
Speaker 14 (31:53):
And that's exactly why we launched packsilica, to make sure
that we have a sensible approach to exporting our best
technologies while protecting our most sensitive technologies. We're having dual
track conversations with our partners. We want to protect our
sensitive technologies, but we have got to have a path
to gain market share. And I think everyone's on the
same page. Everyone who joined Packsilica understands that the world's
(32:16):
supply chains being concentrated in one country, no matter how
you feel about that country, is too risky, is too brittle,
and is ultimately a liability to the global economy. And
that's why we started this Economic Security Coalition with the
world's most advanced technology companies and countries in order to
make sure that we diversify those supply chains.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Jacob, those companies are here at Cess Vegas. What do
you hope to achieve in the time that you have
at CEES.
Speaker 14 (32:45):
So part of what we're looking for our roadmap in
twenty twenty six is we want to focus on policy coordination,
We want to expand membership of Packsilica, and we want
to focus on infrastructure projects. The way that we view
infrastructure is we want to focus on the arteries of
supply chains through advanced logistics. We want to focus on
the muscle might of industrial capacity, particularly with fabs, factories
(33:10):
and refineries, and we also want to focus on the fuel,
particularly capital and energy. One of the things that's so
interesting about talking with companies here is we can get
to actually stress test a lot of these ideas with
builders and with people who are the closest to these
problems day to day.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Jacob, this week has been extraordinary from a geopolitical perspective,
and I want to just get your thoughts high level,
your view on pack Silica is that it's sort of
peace through power.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Is that how we should.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Be interpreting what's occurred Venezuela with Russian chips, with what
continues to occur worldwide right now.
Speaker 14 (33:49):
So I think at the end of the day, one
of the takeaways of the events the last few weeks
is very clear that the world needs to know that
the Trump administration says what it means and means what
it says. I think Secretary Rubio spoke very eloquently about
where the US stands and the Trump administration stands on
Venezuela and other issues that have been in the news
(34:11):
like Greenland. Ultimately, the biggest threat to international norms is
the Western Hemisphere and the United States being asleep at
the switch while we are encroached from the north through
the Arctic and from the south through Latin America. Ultimately,
Pack Silica is an effort to pursue a very pragmatic
(34:32):
approach by working with our closest technological partners to actually
forge strategic investment deals and allow moving the needle in
a way that actually benefits all of us. That is
why this coalition is so diverse it's very, very new.
It's a completely new grouping of countries that includes players
like Singapore, like Israel, the UAE, people who aren't used
to being included in traditional legacy forums like the G
(34:55):
twenty and the G seven. And yet these countries punch
far above their weight and where very as a partner
with them.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
JKM, It's great having some time with you. I'm excited
to say to be on stage with you a little
bit later as well.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Jacob Elbow his US Department of Stayed Under Secretary for
Economics Affairs and of course, founder of the Helen Barry Forum,
which is bringing together a VC and Washington surrounding the
China issues. Meanwhile, coming up more on the future of
AI's companies shift in and out of the digital world
and back into physical Steve Jangs, Kind Adventures managing partner
joins his next is a bluebotec. AI's real world impact
(35:32):
is dominating the conversation here at CES, with investors watching
closely to see which technologies move from height to reality
and maybe they foster that reality. Steve Jangs with US
managing partner and founder of Kind Adventures, early stage bench
firm known for back in category defining startups making significant
bets on Well, we think of the work that you
did with Uber, will you think of so many of
the companies that have had significant exits and m and
(35:53):
a that's happening. But for you here, I think one
of the stars of the show has been Neuro. Right.
We saw this big announcement coming from We had Lucid
on the show, but Uber and and Dey Neuro teaming
up to provide the future of robotaxis. But as a
crowded field, how did you decign Nero was going to
be helping win in that autonomous fight?
Speaker 15 (36:11):
Sure, So if you rewind time and you look at
the history of Uber, you'll remember ten years ago Uber
had announced that they were going to invest in self
driving car technology. Now, a lot of things happened since then.
So they originally had planned it with Travis Kalenik at
the helm of the company, and then had to jettison
(36:31):
that whole business before going public under Dara, And I
think what Dara did is pick that back up and
say we need to accelerate our strategy. So about two
years ago a lot of those plans were put into motion,
and what was interesting was Neuro was a company that
had been one of the few companies like Weimo that
had been training around Bay Area streets with their lighter
(36:52):
and their cameras, and they recently launched an autonomy intelligence platform,
which is basically an operating system to allow any third
party automaker to have self driving capabilities. And so what
you saw here was a great launch between Neuro, Lucid,
and Uber to not only fit retrofit a Lucid car
(37:13):
with autonomy full level four not eight s right, not
level two plus plus assistance, but full self driving capability
like Waimo and Tesla FSD, and launch that with Lucid
on the Uber network. So you'll be able to open
up your Uber app at the end of this year
in the Bay Area and be able to take a
self driving car.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
It's like Capital light model.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Let someone else take on the burden of the hardware
and the stack, just do the fleet management. But for me,
the bigger piece of news in that world was Alpamo, right,
because Nvidia is coming with the same thing saying hey,
we have a full stack solution.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
I know that you caught notis of that.
Speaker 15 (37:47):
So Agxtore, which is inside of Neuro, is part of
that Elphi in Prince right. And so what Nvidia is
doing and it's very smart of Invidia. They are selling
chips right, and so what they want to do is
sell you a starter kit, give you an open source model.
They want to give you open data sets, and they say,
go to town. We want you to build a self
driving car platform to fit these cars, to fit your
(38:09):
ride sharing or delivery network, your logistics network. And what
they're saying is we want to have many competitors out there.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
So we can sell you more GPUs.
Speaker 15 (38:18):
And so Neuro is actually one of the very first
partners that has been using that for years now, and
VideA as an investor in Neuro and so you know,
Neuro and Uber are sort of the prime example and
hopefully a flagship for them and their business. But you know,
in Vidia on a larger scale at this show is
what they're doing is they're kingmaking. They're king making an
entire sector. They're saying, you know, a year ago they
(38:40):
were talking about robotics. This year they transitioned that into
physical AI. Now they're not just talking about robotics, they're
talking about autonomy and mobility because it's coming to a crescendo,
and so they're very very smart and saying we're sort
of like the FED, right, We're gonna we're the FED
for AI. We're going to tell you, uh, the headline, right, yeah, yeah,
and we're going to We're going to tell you where
everyone's going to go. You may be on that wave,
(39:02):
you may not be on that wave, but you should be.
And by the way, we have the models, we have
the data, and we have the chips and overall compute
for you to go build that. And so you know,
I think there's been a lot of argument about you know,
is in Nvidia's kingdom.
Speaker 8 (39:17):
Right at risk right now?
Speaker 15 (39:18):
And I would say that they continue to surprise and
be several years ahead of their competition. So we're very
excited about we're watching closely.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
I mean, look, you would know form backing Uber and
the ultimately there were two key winners out of that
Uber and Left. When I think about the areas that
you're also thinking of, I mean, how many players can
there be an autonomous how many players can there be
in foundational models?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
You're in perplexity, and.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Everyone's thinking maybe there's any an anthropic and an open
AI and an Gemini space sure, as.
Speaker 15 (39:45):
You're rightfully noting any innovation. Curve starts as many competitors
and it whittles down to two or three. It's just
a it's a rule of thumb in Silicon Valley. So
right now Neuro is entering the space. There's Weimo, there's Tesla,
and there's Neuro. In China, there's several other competitors. Right
in Europe there are no right and so on level
(40:05):
four capability. So what I think is happening is you're
seeing a whittling down because of the resources, the training data,
the amount of years that you need to do to
train across all these streets. It's not a software company
that you can just start up out of scratch. So
I think one of the things that you'll see also
in robotics is you'll see this whittling down of competition.
(40:28):
And you see Boston Dynamics, which is owned by Hinda,
which is very interesting. They're doing quite well, and they
reveal the humanoid. You know, I've been very careful and
skeptical about the development of humanoids, and I would say
that this is the first time I've seen humanoids in
action that look practical, and so I think you'll see
that in robotics as well. I think you'll see that
(40:49):
in generative media. I think you'll see that in agents.
So a lot of these platforms will start to whittle
down to two, three, maybe four players, and this year
will be the year of that, which is why inference.
You know, one of the other things that we're seeing
here is more further evidence that inference is going to
exceed training in terms of compute, and that flip that
flipping if you will, right, if I can use a
(41:10):
Bitcoin term, that flippening is means a lot. So demand
for compute is far exceeding supply.
Speaker 8 (41:18):
Even with the.
Speaker 15 (41:18):
HBM shortage, it's going to increase that. So there's a
battle royale happening here in compute.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Steve Jang Kindred Avenge is hitting literally the biggest stories
of the week.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
We've had hair out of ces. We have much more
to come. Stay with us. This has been bog tech.
Speaker 8 (41:43):
The story in.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Markets right now is tech is down in video off
by eight tens one percent. Had been much lower over
the course of the week. We've kind of not had
any of the euphour it we expected. We all came
to Las Vegas thinking that in video, who, in Steve
Jang's words, was the king maker of AI. The fed
of A would tell us something profound that would keep
the stock going higher.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
And it's not really panned out that way, even.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Though we kind of did said, look that five hundred
billion dollars of inbound I see in revenue in twenty
twenty six, that's going to be higher. Maybe we even
get eight two hundredths into China and yet so high expectations.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Look AMD, what more can lisas?
Speaker 8 (42:17):
Who do?
Speaker 2 (42:18):
She made up a term? Was it yotto flop?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
She talked about the sheer scale or compute that's still necessary,
the winning formula that she's seeing and sock is down
qualcon though, really managed to impress the markets from robotics.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Itself into the market that everyone was already talking about.
You know, so you see the chipmakers say, okay, the
next phase is physical AI. We did learn some hard
lessons that it's difficult out there.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Memory is a big story. And then there's robots.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Right, it is the Consumer Electronics Show, and there were
real robots.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
To see and what we hear at fourteen different humanoids,
not to mention the furry friends that we're seeing around here.
That are going to be a companion to your child
or to the elderly. It's been extraordinary to be here
on the floor of CES and you see the level
of innovation. Stuff that will stick, stuff that definitely won't.
I still haven't tried that lollipop that plays music as.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
You eat it.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
There.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah, and we got some deals, we got some m
and A, we got some fundraising. But it is the
best way to start the year.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
It is, I mean, boy, still talking about those valuations
and flopping as well.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That's it for this edition at.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Bloomberg Tech, but don't forget later today an exclusive interview
is coming with a co founder and CEO of Minimax.
That's right here from CS to discuss the Hong Kong
listening China IPO market for all things AI is on.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Fire IPO twenty twenty six, looking good. Recap on the
pod you know where to find it. For the final
time from Las Vegas, this is Bloomberg Tech.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eda Loow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to a special edition of Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We are live from CS in Las Vegas, where we've
been tracking the biggest tech stories. Another great lineup of
incredible guests today, but we've also got some news outside.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Of CS right then, Yeah, Coming up first, China plans
to approve some imports of Nvidia's eight two hundred ships
as soon as this quarter for select commercial use.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Plus AI evaluations, pushing ever higher anthropic raising a new
round of funding that would value the company at three
hundred and fifty billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
And we wrap this special CES edition today with guests
from the robotics and augmented reality spaces, venture Capital and the.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
First we check in on these markets that are in
a bit of sell off mode. Look anxiety ahead of
those non farm payrolls data that we get tomorrow, and
no one taking on any more risk after what I've
been a really rather nice run up in tech stocks
over the last free trading days.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So today maybe we sell the news.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Today We're off by some six tens of percent, but
all eyes really on one keeper.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, like your chart is showing that actually, you know,
we'd be kind of lower. Wiggling around throughout the early session, Nvidia.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Has taken a significant.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Leg lower this Thursday, it's now off two percent. The
reporting is crystal clear from Bloomberg. According to sources, China's
government will approve some Chinese tech companies taking H two hundreds.
That sources are giving details on which companies, But the
crystal clear line is has to be commercial use, cannot
(01:48):
be military, cannot be some government, cannot.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Be state backed enterprise.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Let's get out to Washington, DC and Bloomberg Senior Tech
editor Mike Shephard, there's a lot of specifics in this report.
Give us those specifics, what we know about the companies involved,
and also the volumes, because that's going to matter to
the stock.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
Well, the volumes are a little bit unclear as far
as what the Chinese government would approve, but we already
are getting some signals according to our reporting that companies
like Byteedance and by Do would be interested in buying
up to two hundred thousand Nvidia H two hundred chips
each once those approvals go through. Now it's unclear whether China,
(02:30):
the authorities in Beijing, will allow those kinds of quantities
right away into the market. And it's important to remember
also that look, there are restrictions still in place here
from the US. Even with President Donald Trump's verbal blessing
for this, we still need to see licenses emitted by
the Commerce Department. That process is still underway. Jensen Wong
(02:50):
and your interview with him the other day indicated that
he was optimistic that those would go through, and likewise
this would affect AMD, which also has chips that is
is hoping to get into China as well.
Speaker 7 (03:02):
Look for in Vidio.
Speaker 6 (03:03):
This is a big win if it all goes through.
As we are outlining in this report, China is the
world's biggest semiconductor market, and Jensen Wong has identified it
as a fifty billion dollar opportunity for the company.
Speaker 7 (03:16):
And the timing is crucial.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
They are facing intensifying competition from rivals inside China, including
camera Con and SMIC, which are making strides in the
development of their own homegrown semiconductors, and we have also
seen signals from authorities in Beijing that they would like
local companies to start favoring domestic alternatives to in video
(03:38):
over whatever it might be coming from the US.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Mike Shepherd, as always, thank you so much. From Washington.
We're going to stick with a theme of.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
AI, of course we are, but this time I'm going
to look at it from valuation perspective. Ed because Athropic
the latest news that it's outlooking and raising some ten
billion dollars is.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Before that raise value.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Therefore, at three hundred and fifty billion dollars, we know
open Ai is out there also raising funds could be
as whopping as seven hundred and fifty billion dollars. All
of this is we I potentially these companies coming to
the public.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Markets as well.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I've been speaking to some of the investors backing this
round ten billion dollars, three hundred and fifty billion dollar valuation.
They don't have the scale that open ai has right,
but they've gone after the enterprise. And the way that
one investor put it to me is there are four
players right now, open Ai, Xai, Anthropic, and Google. There's
probably only room in the real world for three. But
(04:29):
it's interesting to see them continue.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Raise and just how sophisticated they are when it comes
to the coding side of the equation that really seems
to have been.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Where they've made their mark.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But also they're trying to say that they are well
the safer, more focused on ethics in some ways they
split off from open ai to remember that's what their
origin story is.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
And in your interview with he Montonees, you're getting a
lot of credit for that coding.
Speaker 8 (04:50):
Piece as well.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Another big story of the morning, and it's a jostling
for position once again, we're looking at the market cap
of Google or Alphabet the parent Google rising above Apple.
Speaker 8 (05:02):
What did I just say?
Speaker 4 (05:03):
In this world order four players right now? Alphabet and
Google have really accelerated in recent months, both literally from
a stock performance perspective, but also just I guess by
news flow and reputation and Apple it's a different game, right.
But yeah, this is one that I didn't see coming
last year or at least as you know, at any
(05:24):
point that.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Story, that TVU story just changed everything didn't and the
vertical integration.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Okay, coming up, humanoid robotics takes shape right here at CEES.
We're going to discuss the future of physical AI with
Jan Liphart, founder and CEO of open mind a's next.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Here at ces Physical AI is breaking through to the
mainstream with humanoid robotics taking set of stage. Joining us
is Yan Lipart, founder and CEO of open Mind, a
startup building an parading system design to connect, coordinate, and
scale intelligence across all thinking machines. There are so many
things to take away from being here this week. Let's,
(06:10):
I think, focus on the humanoid robot form factor at least,
but your main impression with those on display, I think
Atlas is probably top of mind for many. Last night
when I was here with Boston Dynamics CEO wrote place
the weights to go and see Atlas was two hours.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
What do you make of that?
Speaker 9 (06:29):
Well, just a few years ago, the robots here were
kind of yanky, they were wobbly, and they had wires
coming out of their head, and they looked like science experiments.
And it's really fascinating to see just how quickly humanoids
are turning into a real product. And Atlas is of
course just one of those. So instead of them being
(06:52):
science experiments, they look like real things that you might
want to have in your home or in your workplace.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
You're also a.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Professor at Stanford, And you know, the academic discussion here,
which I've loved, has been, hey, guys, we think we've solved.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
The software problem. Have we solved the software problem?
Speaker 9 (07:13):
Well, when people talk about humanoids, everyone has a different
picture of what.
Speaker 8 (07:19):
The humanoid is going to do.
Speaker 9 (07:21):
If you're talking about a humanoid for a hospital, that's
a totally different situation compared to a humanoid flipping hamburgers
or teaching kids math.
Speaker 8 (07:31):
So it really depends on the point.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
We're moving a box from one part of the tables
the other part of the table is no longer impressive.
Speaker 8 (07:37):
So that's completely solved.
Speaker 9 (07:38):
And Amazon has one point one million robots deployed already,
so the logistics pick in place is effectively solved. One
frontier is what you might call social robotics. So these
are the robots that will live with you, and they
will teach your kids, and they will help your parents.
And that is still more different because there's a lot
(08:02):
of what we expect when we interact with people, their
ability to make us laugh and speak and be quick
and so forth. That is still difficult. But basics like
picking things up, that's solved.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
When we think about the solution of integration.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
A lot of companies want to talk about how they're
the vertically integrated company. They are making not just the hardware,
but the software too. So where are you getting an
in how many of these fourteen humanoids we see here
at CES are you putting your open software to work in?
Speaker 8 (08:28):
Well, it's about half of them.
Speaker 9 (08:31):
And for many humanoid robotics companies, they have a traditional
focus on hardware and they're seeing the software move extremely quickly,
and some of them have the sense that they don't
have the inherent capability to also be at the frontier
of the software, and that's where we're getting traction for us.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I want to go back to the very thesis of
whether you want a humanoid at all. Buston Dynamics perspective
is in the interim we have manufacturing units that are
purpose built for robots. Humanoid makes sense because it has
to work side along humans and augment them or at
least replace them eventually.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Maybe that's not the form factor we want.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I don't think I want a form factor of humanoid
in my home, to be perfectly frank, you're seeing a
lot more of these sort of soft, cuddly toys for
companionship and the way that they talk. What will robots
look like in the future.
Speaker 9 (09:22):
Well, I have a humanoid at home and my kids
casual and my humanoid. My kids thinks that is totally
normal because for them, they've seen that for literally two
years now. And however, when I talk to my mom,
I sent my mom some videos of the humanoids here
(09:45):
iris iris iris. No, this is hardware developed by someone else.
Of course, it's running the software I wrote, which is
why I trust it, because I know exactly what's going
on inside the humanoid. But yeah, I sent my mom
some videos of humanoids around here, and she said, Yanni,
I'm shocked. This is awesome. So to your original point,
(10:09):
what is the right form factor? What's special about a
humanoid is that they're by definition compatible with your home,
a hospital, school, workplace, door handles, light switches, stairs, so
they can immediately be effective in all the infrastructure that
humans have built for us.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
This is why it's important to get as far as
you can be an objective take on the state of industry.
Right the problem we started the segment though, saying it's
broken through to the mainstream. Actually, there is a lot
of fatigue, just like there was with ROBOTAXI. We've been
saying it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. What I see
is in the industrial use cases, it's there. But one
(10:49):
thing that came up with us a lot this week,
care of the elderly. Yeah, are we really in a
position where overnight humanoid robots are going to solve what
is a massive addressable market?
Speaker 9 (10:59):
Well to some people that sounds dystopian and creepy. Is
it something you imagined that your parents would interact with robots?
But some of the companies building robots for memory care facilities,
like Andromeda in San Francisco and Australia, the stories they
(11:22):
tell are heartbreaking, where nurses now have to clean the
head of the humanoid every evening because the patients will
kiss the humanoid. So the nurses now have to remove
lipstick off the head of humanoid. And so for many
people that are starved of human interaction, they get so
(11:42):
attached to the humanoid and their eyes light up and
they laugh and they will kiss the head of the humanoid.
And so there's definitely something there. And for most people
in retirement homes here in the US, they haven't been
visited by their family members in a year or more so,
it's a group of people that are really starved for
any kind of interaction, and some of them really seem
(12:05):
to love the technology.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I mean, yeah, and that speaks to a greater problem
in humanity writ large, I want your take, if I
dare go back to open mind itself, where do you
make your money?
Speaker 7 (12:16):
Ah?
Speaker 9 (12:17):
Well, we have a little bit of a different take
on humanoids. We don't want them to be closed. We
don't want them to be these magic boxes that show
up at your front door. We think of them much
more like cell phones that are open and where developers
everywhere can add apps or skills that will allow your
(12:37):
humanoids to do many more things very quickly. And so
it's very important to us that this technology is not
like this magic black box, but it's something that most
of us understand can engage with and build for.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Great catching up with you, Thank you for spending some time.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, and I've found our CEO of open Mind speaking
with robots. Well, I got to sit down in Boston
dine to you, Robert Plater, to discuss the company's latest
situation of a humanoid robot that's Atlas, designed to work
in hyndized manufacturing plants studying in twenty twenty eight, including
a factory in Savannah, Georgia.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Thank listen.
Speaker 10 (13:12):
By twenty twenty eight, Hyundai's going to build us a
purpose built factory designed for mass manufacture of our humanoids,
and that's going to have a capacity of between ten
and thirty thousand units per year, And so that's the goal.
By twenty thirty, we'll be building tens of thousands of
robots per year.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I've always wanted to ask you, and I'm going to
ask you your analysis and impressions of Tesla's Optimist program
and your assessment of what they're doing and what they've done.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Well.
Speaker 10 (13:39):
I think they're a very serious competitor. They've done a
lot of very impressive work. They also have the advantages
we have that they have a consumer in Tesla to
use those robots internally.
Speaker 7 (13:53):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
Think it really requires both aspects. You need the technology
from robotics AI, you also need that customer and that consumer,
and so automotive is a natural fit and so I
think Tesla is actually very well placed to succeed here
as well.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
That was Boston Dynamics SEO Robert Playton coming up here
on the show. Next, X Reel revamped its ar glasses.
Is the wearable space is seeing more competition. We speak
with x Real CEO Czu.
Speaker 8 (14:24):
That's next.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
This is Bloomberg Tech. AI will bring out a renaissance
to the field of music. That's according to Grammy.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
Winning a artist.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Will I am also the founder and CEO of f
Yi dot Ai.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Bloombers Text.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Tom McKenny sat down with him for this week's episode
of Bloomberg Tech Europe, taking a deep dive into how
AI is shaking up the music industry and the streaming
business model.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
Listen to this.
Speaker 11 (14:56):
It's a renaissance the same way the renaissance, you know, calapulted,
you know, dimensionalize the creative industry in the past, the renaissance.
There's a new renaissance to do it for this era
that we're in. So it's it's the age of the hypercreative.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Go catch that episode of Bloomberg Tech Europe this Friday
here on Bloomberg Television eight thirty am in London. That's
three thirty in the morning on you in the East Coast.
But it's worth getting up for. Trust me, Carrow, what's up.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Meanwhile, let's pivot to the world as smart eyewear. Because
we're talking with x Real. They've just unveiled new entry
level al glasses that come at the cheaper price point
dub the one S. The new glasses boast a one
two hundred pet resolution with a new price of four
hundred and twenty nine dollars. X Real CEO Jesus is
here with us now. Congratulations on the unveiled But we've
got some news I want to hit first. Sure, you've
(15:56):
been getting some financing. We understand you're raising money to
be able to put these new glasses at a cheaper
price point.
Speaker 7 (16:01):
I agree.
Speaker 12 (16:02):
Yes, it's getting heated up for the whole race, right
and you know it's getting exciting as well for the
whole industry to really see glasses can really be the
next competing platform pair with AI. You know, I think
at some point they can truly replace the cell phone
we're using today.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Going back to the financing, Yeah, raised about one hundred million.
Able to disclose what valuation. Who's backing you?
Speaker 5 (16:24):
So okay?
Speaker 12 (16:24):
I would say at this moment it's mainly some play
chain partners and some key vendors. You know, at this
moment there's not more information I can share, but definitely later.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
But one hundred million dollars as accurate. Yes, I think
it's a bit of an academic debate to be had here.
I've used that phrase a lot. But is glasses the
right form factor? The raise of CEO is actually on
the program, okay, talking about how headphones might be the
better form factor in AI world. You know you have
(16:54):
options in the wearables category. Yep, is he right wrong?
Speaker 12 (16:59):
Well, okay, so I just met him actually a couple
of days ago. We talk about this as well. We
talk a little bit about that. But for me, you know,
from my perspective, I do think glasses it is the
ultimate conform factor. You know, when we see how we
actually involve going from the big screen to your laptop
to your cell phone, the screen is getting closer and closer,
and what is even closer than your cell phone, it's
(17:21):
probably going to be this display right in front of
your eyes. Right and also, in my opinion, with a
you know, combination of AI, you can actually have AI
assistant seeing your eye, see what you're seeing, feel and
hear what you hear.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
Twenty four to seven.
Speaker 12 (17:36):
If that is actually available, I do believe you know,
there's no other advantage you can compete with the glasses.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Metta is going to set further right and now put
the display in worries you, doesn't worry you.
Speaker 12 (17:50):
No, No, I think you know, it's a great competition.
You know, Meta definitely have a lot of advantages. You know,
they have a lot of investment, great talent, and they
start really really early.
Speaker 7 (17:59):
Right too.
Speaker 12 (18:00):
I think this is big enough market and still I
don't really see the FUM factor kind of converge. So
this is open race for everybody. I'm just excited, you know,
to be part of that journey.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Well, the people we're waiting for their unveil from is Google.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
How are you working alongside Google? How is your relationship deepening?
How is Project Aura?
Speaker 7 (18:18):
Okay, that's a great question. You know.
Speaker 12 (18:20):
This week we just you know, announced that we're depending
the partnership with multi year extension and also name Actual
being the lead hardware partner with Google and Android XR.
And this is really great exciting moments. I think maybe
it's not just one company you're gonna do everything, you
know together, maybe it's kind of a combination. The hardware
is software collaboration at some point and Actual We are
(18:41):
really good at building optical modules, building chips, you know,
and you know Google they're really good at building AI,
building an offering system. So I think, you know, this
is a win win situation for us to team up
together to kind of polish the end to end hardware
and software e cop experiences together.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So do you think it'll almost be like a self
own world in that you have the Google pixel, but
you also have some sung with the Android operating system
and Mirianna others using Android.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So is it going to be Google with their own
hardware and their own and then or you're.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Going to be the hardware partner of choice and then
be some others out there.
Speaker 12 (19:13):
Absolutely, if you remember early on actually Google partner with HTC,
you know, at the very beginning to define the whole
smartphone industry part of it, you know, alongside with Apple,
and then they start to rolling out to LG to
some song and then they have their own pixels, right,
So it's going to be an ecosystem playing We're just
you know, we just feel lucky we got picked by
Google so we can work together being the pioneer to
(19:35):
drive these in industry forward.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
When when projects or glasses come to the real.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
World twenty six, it's going to be this year.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
What does the rollout look like?
Speaker 12 (19:46):
Well, that's something I cannot share at this moment.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
But you go to market, you'll say they're ready, this
is what they look like, this is what they cost.
Speaker 12 (19:53):
They will be available of course, you know, when the
time's ready, we'll release those kind of information.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
There are some other things that you're your bat let
with your latest generation existing x real glasses, right, absolutely, sleeker,
lower price, price is so important, but you are going
up against the market where we have Vision Pro and
other similar products, and then we question immersion and field of.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
View, that's right. What's your response to those questions.
Speaker 12 (20:18):
People start to think about, you know, maybe for Apple
Vinion Pro it is great experience, but the question and
challenges you know, it is too expensive, it is too heavy, right,
so how can we can we come up with something
you know, lighter, more affordable, like, but we can deliver
like eighty percent of that kind of experience. And that's
where you know x U glass is coming about. And
especially if we had the latest generation one as right,
(20:41):
we further kind of a bump up the features. You know,
some of the you know, very unique feature. We say
it's two D to three D lifetime conversion. We're using
our own chip to do this AI conversion in the
real time, and this is amazing. Any kind of content
coming with the glasses, whether it's a cell phone, handhold,
gaming devices, topic can turn into three D in the
(21:02):
real time.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Let's talk about how you've got the price pointed out. Yes,
Is it because you're making your own chip.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Is it a supply chain navigation or are you just
taking a hit from a profit margin?
Speaker 12 (21:12):
No, we just you know, we spend a lot of
effort optimizing this whole supply chain. You know, better year rate,
you know, higher volume. I just kind of going to
help to bring the cost down.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
Is it coming from China part of that?
Speaker 7 (21:24):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
And is that a risk an issue given the national
security concerns.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
That's a great question.
Speaker 12 (21:28):
You know, we do have this kind of global supply
chain strategy as well. It can be China, it can
be a part of it can be even in the
US and some.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Day, just very very quickly, yes, this cs you've had
a lot of foot traffic. Yes, just reflects on that
really quick.
Speaker 12 (21:44):
Well, you know, people like glasses and they like to
experience actually even though we've been talking about glasses for
so long, there's still a lot of people they haven't
really tried on any glasses, So I think if this
is still a long kind of education process.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Thanks Real CEO, tees you great heavy back on the
blue tech here at CES, Thank you so much. Coming up,
we're gonna speak with Jacob Helberg, US State Department under
Secretary for Economic Affairs to discuss the state of chip
export curves. The sources say China is now ready to
approve imports of some in Nvidia eight two hundred chips.
The big story from Bloomberg this Thursday, it is halftime.
(22:21):
We are in Las Vegas. This is CS and this
is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. There is
a lot of news that's driving markets irrespective of what's
going on here in Las Vegas. One of them is
(22:41):
the Warner Brothers Discovery situation. Paramounts Guidance came out with
a statement reaffirming their thirty dollars a share offer, but
interesting curR like in the calculus, they're now saying that
the cable networks that they want to include in the.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Deal are worth zero dollars, which is.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Interesting because like a lot of the street and a
lot of the market saying we don't think you're quite
right on that. Remember, Netflix wants to buy just the
studios and streaming spin out the legacy networks and cable offering,
whereas Paramounts Guidance, as we say on bluebo Tech, want
the whole enchilada. Either way, we're still kind of in
a holding pattern until we move forward.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
There's a really big.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Story overnight out of career, and that is Samsung quarterly
profit tripled because memory. We've been talking so much about
the supply constraint and bottleneck that is memory right now,
and pricing goes up, but if you're a memory maker
and pricing goes up to that extent, it's usually pretty
good for your bottom line. The stock down about a
(23:36):
percentage point, but that was the big headline, and it
has been such a focus this week, the issue and
bottleneck that is memory chips, not just in the data
center context, but of course PC as well.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And of course, because Jenson what made that point of sandus,
the shares went wild.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Maybe that's why we're pulling back a little bit on Samsung.
But let's switch gears a little bit because Another key.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Part of our conversation that we had yesterday with Andreil
founder par Malucky was where we discussed US competition with China,
and you first asked him about the compensation package after
President Trump called for capping executive pay with defense contractors
in particular.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Just take a listen.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
One of the provisions that the president proposes is a
salary cap of five million dollars. In the Bloomberg story
outlined some of the comp of those CEOs. Would you
be willing to say what you pay yourself for Anderior,
and if you would abide by I pay.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
Myself one hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
So significantly less than a five million dollar cap.
Speaker 13 (24:31):
True, But I also own a lot of my company,
and so this measure is not really written in a
way where it's intended to hit new companies starting new things.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
You know.
Speaker 13 (24:40):
Act like if Kelly Johnson were alive today and he
owned a bunch of you know, Lockheed Martin or north
from Grummer or Raytheon, I don't think that anyone would
have nearly much of a problem with him.
Speaker 7 (24:49):
Yeah, I pay myself one hundred thousand dollars a year.
That's my compensation. Package.
Speaker 13 (24:53):
I own a bunch of androll because I started the company.
That's so my motivation is to try and build the
biggest thing forossible. I will say people are fairly critiguing
and said, but Palmer, you know, are you really a
neutral party here? Are you really in a position to
comment given you're competing with these companies? And I'd say
two things. One, these measures do apply an equal measure
to me. I now cannot pay dividends. I now cannot
be stock buybacks if I'm not investing in new plans,
(25:14):
if I'm not doing.
Speaker 7 (25:15):
These two things.
Speaker 13 (25:15):
The other thing is it's always tricky when you want
to know, I'm in defense because I wanted to help
solve these problems.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
Right. It's actually the same thing with like mod Retro
in the gaming.
Speaker 13 (25:24):
Space, like, oh, of course Palmer would criticize these other
game companies, after all, he's in the gaming space. It's like, yeah,
but I'm in the gaming space because I want to
solve these problems. It's kind of this like catch twenty two,
Like if you're outside it, they'll say, well, why don't
you do something about it?
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Then?
Speaker 13 (25:39):
And you do something like who cares what you're doing?
You're just part of the problem. It's always been emotionally
difficult for.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Me when we're thinking about where you stand, where US
stands versus China.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yep, where does it intens of drone technology?
Speaker 3 (25:52):
We're in this context of a geopolitical strain that started
this year off with Venezuela.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
We look now to Russia. How do you see China
and the Taiwan question.
Speaker 13 (26:02):
China has an incredibly strong drone industry. It is largely
a result of state intervention. It's largely a result of
industrial policy, of supply chain investments that the government has made. Yeah,
and even trade deals that China has made around the
world to allow for these drones to freely flow out
in other marketplaces. Yeah, China has the best ron industry
in the world. It's not even close. It's definitely a
(26:22):
weakness that the United States has. Now you saw recently
this ban on d jai drones. The intention there is
to try and fix that. You can fix these things.
The US is capable of building drones, it's just we
aren't capable of competing with the labor laws, emissions laws,
energy prices from coal plants, et cetera that you see
in China.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
So I'm hoping that this ban on d Jai drones
results in a.
Speaker 13 (26:44):
Strong US drone market popping up to take its place
over the next one two three years. Androle actually as
a drone that we were showing off in Japan recently
that's made with one hundred percent Japanese parts.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
Japan is another nation that can build their own drones.
Speaker 13 (26:59):
They don't need d but it's hard for that to
make aconomic sense when China's allowed to flow the market.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
That was Annual founder Palmer Lucky for more on the
US relationship with China and the national security concerns behind
semiconductors were joined by Jacob Helberg, US State Department Undersecretary
for Economic Affairs, but also the founder the Hill and
Valley Forum, which we were able to attend last year.
There was something in the in the in the China
(27:28):
context which we didn't get to with Palma, which was
a piece of recent news which President g reiterating, I
would say a long stated goal of reunification with Taiwan.
Speaker 14 (27:41):
Now.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
The reason I want to start there, Jacob, is in
your efforts with Pax Silica. The scenario that everyone is
trying to plan for Taiwan and access to capacity in
the semiconductor side being shut off if that scenario were
to unfold starting twenty twenty six, could you just bring
(28:01):
us your latest thinking on that, please.
Speaker 14 (28:03):
Absolutely, And it's great to join you guys here at
CS in Las Vegas, which is such a great window
into American innovation and innovation from a lot of Paxilica
countries like South Korea and Japan. It's incredibly exciting that
we're talking barely three weeks after the signing of this
landmark declaration. Ultimately, let me put into context why this
(28:24):
is so important and why so many people are talking
about technology competition. But today it's clear that if the
twentieth century ran on steel, the twenty first century is
increasingly running on silicon and compute. And we're already seeing
in the United States the third of our GDP growth
coming from AI and growth picking up and accelerating as
productivity is starting to accelerate growth and sectors across the economy.
(28:48):
So back in July, President Trump ruled out this landmark
speech at an event I co hosted with White House
Aizar David Sachs called Winning the AI Race, where it
was a landmark moment where he declared that the US
is set to win the AI race and that it
is the official policy of the US government to do
whatever it takes. A few months later, I'm happy to
(29:10):
report that at the State Department, we have adopted a
strategy that breaks down this broad goal into three parts.
Speaker 8 (29:17):
We want to help the US.
Speaker 14 (29:18):
Government win the AI race by leading an innovation, by
gaining market share, and by securing our supply chains. So
we launched packed Silica with a group of seven countries
and are the most technologically advanced countries, including Japan, South
Korea which is home to Samsung, es Kheiinix, Mitsubishi, and
we are engaged in a lot of intensive talks to
(29:40):
now transition to the implementation phase of Pasilica in twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
A lot of your anxiety, and you've been at this
for a very long time trying to warn the United
States and those in positions of power now in the
power that you have yourself, that we shouldn't be exopposed
to China in the way that we have been. Now
from a national security perspective, what do you think of
the late that maybe h two hundreds go into China
by this quarter, They might sign off for Ali Baba
(30:06):
for bid to be able to access in videos chips.
Speaker 14 (30:10):
So part of the goal of winning the supply chain
means we need to expand market share. And sometimes there's
a bit of a tension between innovation and diffusion, because
when you diffuse technology, sometimes you're compromising a little bit
on innovation because more people have access to that technology,
which narrows your technological edge. Part of what we're doing
(30:32):
by exporting our h two hundreds is making sure that
the world's developers are building on top of the American stack,
and we want to ensure that American models actually stay
ahead through these strategic bilateral deals in countries in the
Gulf like the UAE, the Saudi Arabia, and a number
of others that are on the way but still too
(30:53):
early to disclose here today, in order to make sure
that our companies have by far the most compute capacity,
so that our l A lamps they had as well.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Jacob on that market share bucket, you know, the concern
that many in DC outline to us is if we
don't take sport to the golf, China will Is that
the right way to think about it for America?
Speaker 14 (31:16):
I think it's an opportunity where there is nature abhors
a vacuum. We have got to fill the vacuum while
we can. We have the world's best technology and the
worlds know that. And ultimately America has thrived when we
allow our innovators to actually dominate market share.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
They did dominate, and video had ninety five percent in
the market and now Jensen to say, has zero and
maybe it's being allowed to claw some back.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Has not the horse bolted?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Have we not already allowed camera con to grow and
our way to grow? Are we really going to be
able to clean back and have the stack of our
own worldwide?
Speaker 14 (31:53):
And that's exactly why we launched packsilica, to make sure
that we have a sensible approach to exporting our best
technologies while protecting our most sensitive technologies. We're having dual
track conversations with our partners. We want to protect our
sensitive technologies, but we have got to have a path
to gain market share. And I think everyone's on the
same page. Everyone who joined Packsilica understands that the world's
(32:16):
supply chains being concentrated in one country, no matter how
you feel about that country, is too risky, is too brittle,
and is ultimately a liability to the global economy. And
that's why we started this Economic Security Coalition with the
world's most advanced technology companies and countries in order to
make sure that we diversify those supply chains.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Jacob, those companies are here at Cess Vegas. What do
you hope to achieve in the time that you have
at CEES.
Speaker 14 (32:45):
So part of what we're looking for our roadmap in
twenty twenty six is we want to focus on policy coordination,
We want to expand membership of Packsilica, and we want
to focus on infrastructure projects. The way that we view
infrastructure is we want to focus on the arteries of
supply chains through advanced logistics. We want to focus on
the muscle might of industrial capacity, particularly with fabs, factories
(33:10):
and refineries, and we also want to focus on the fuel,
particularly capital and energy. One of the things that's so
interesting about talking with companies here is we can get
to actually stress test a lot of these ideas with
builders and with people who are the closest to these
problems day to day.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Jacob, this week has been extraordinary from a geopolitical perspective,
and I want to just get your thoughts high level,
your view on pack Silica is that it's sort of
peace through power.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Is that how we should.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Be interpreting what's occurred Venezuela with Russian chips, with what
continues to occur worldwide right now.
Speaker 14 (33:49):
So I think at the end of the day, one
of the takeaways of the events the last few weeks
is very clear that the world needs to know that
the Trump administration says what it means and means what
it says. I think Secretary Rubio spoke very eloquently about
where the US stands and the Trump administration stands on
Venezuela and other issues that have been in the news
(34:11):
like Greenland. Ultimately, the biggest threat to international norms is
the Western Hemisphere and the United States being asleep at
the switch while we are encroached from the north through
the Arctic and from the south through Latin America. Ultimately,
Pack Silica is an effort to pursue a very pragmatic
(34:32):
approach by working with our closest technological partners to actually
forge strategic investment deals and allow moving the needle in
a way that actually benefits all of us. That is
why this coalition is so diverse it's very, very new.
It's a completely new grouping of countries that includes players
like Singapore, like Israel, the UAE, people who aren't used
to being included in traditional legacy forums like the G
(34:55):
twenty and the G seven. And yet these countries punch
far above their weight and where very as a partner
with them.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
JKM, It's great having some time with you. I'm excited
to say to be on stage with you a little
bit later as well.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Jacob Elbow his US Department of Stayed Under Secretary for
Economics Affairs and of course, founder of the Helen Barry Forum,
which is bringing together a VC and Washington surrounding the
China issues. Meanwhile, coming up more on the future of
AI's companies shift in and out of the digital world
and back into physical Steve Jangs, Kind Adventures managing partner
joins his next is a bluebotec. AI's real world impact
(35:32):
is dominating the conversation here at CES, with investors watching
closely to see which technologies move from height to reality
and maybe they foster that reality. Steve Jangs with US
managing partner and founder of Kind Adventures, early stage bench
firm known for back in category defining startups making significant
bets on Well, we think of the work that you
did with Uber, will you think of so many of
the companies that have had significant exits and m and
(35:53):
a that's happening. But for you here, I think one
of the stars of the show has been Neuro. Right.
We saw this big announcement coming from We had Lucid
on the show, but Uber and and Dey Neuro teaming
up to provide the future of robotaxis. But as a
crowded field, how did you decign Nero was going to
be helping win in that autonomous fight?
Speaker 15 (36:11):
Sure, So if you rewind time and you look at
the history of Uber, you'll remember ten years ago Uber
had announced that they were going to invest in self
driving car technology. Now, a lot of things happened since then.
So they originally had planned it with Travis Kalenik at
the helm of the company, and then had to jettison
(36:31):
that whole business before going public under Dara, And I
think what Dara did is pick that back up and
say we need to accelerate our strategy. So about two
years ago a lot of those plans were put into motion,
and what was interesting was Neuro was a company that
had been one of the few companies like Weimo that
had been training around Bay Area streets with their lighter
(36:52):
and their cameras, and they recently launched an autonomy intelligence platform,
which is basically an operating system to allow any third
party automaker to have self driving capabilities. And so what
you saw here was a great launch between Neuro, Lucid,
and Uber to not only fit retrofit a Lucid car
(37:13):
with autonomy full level four not eight s right, not
level two plus plus assistance, but full self driving capability
like Waimo and Tesla FSD, and launch that with Lucid
on the Uber network. So you'll be able to open
up your Uber app at the end of this year
in the Bay Area and be able to take a
self driving car.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
It's like Capital light model.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Let someone else take on the burden of the hardware
and the stack, just do the fleet management. But for me,
the bigger piece of news in that world was Alpamo, right,
because Nvidia is coming with the same thing saying hey,
we have a full stack solution.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
I know that you caught notis of that.
Speaker 15 (37:47):
So Agxtore, which is inside of Neuro, is part of
that Elphi in Prince right. And so what Nvidia is
doing and it's very smart of Invidia. They are selling
chips right, and so what they want to do is
sell you a starter kit, give you an open source model.
They want to give you open data sets, and they say,
go to town. We want you to build a self
driving car platform to fit these cars, to fit your
(38:09):
ride sharing or delivery network, your logistics network. And what
they're saying is we want to have many competitors out there.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
So we can sell you more GPUs.
Speaker 15 (38:18):
And so Neuro is actually one of the very first
partners that has been using that for years now, and
VideA as an investor in Neuro and so you know,
Neuro and Uber are sort of the prime example and
hopefully a flagship for them and their business. But you know,
in Vidia on a larger scale at this show is
what they're doing is they're kingmaking. They're king making an
entire sector. They're saying, you know, a year ago they
(38:40):
were talking about robotics. This year they transitioned that into
physical AI. Now they're not just talking about robotics, they're
talking about autonomy and mobility because it's coming to a crescendo,
and so they're very very smart and saying we're sort
of like the FED, right, We're gonna we're the FED
for AI. We're going to tell you, uh, the headline, right, yeah, yeah,
and we're going to We're going to tell you where
everyone's going to go. You may be on that wave,
(39:02):
you may not be on that wave, but you should be.
And by the way, we have the models, we have
the data, and we have the chips and overall compute
for you to go build that. And so you know,
I think there's been a lot of argument about you know,
is in Nvidia's kingdom.
Speaker 8 (39:17):
Right at risk right now?
Speaker 15 (39:18):
And I would say that they continue to surprise and
be several years ahead of their competition. So we're very
excited about we're watching closely.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
I mean, look, you would know form backing Uber and
the ultimately there were two key winners out of that
Uber and Left. When I think about the areas that
you're also thinking of, I mean, how many players can
there be an autonomous how many players can there be
in foundational models?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
You're in perplexity, and.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Everyone's thinking maybe there's any an anthropic and an open
AI and an Gemini space sure, as.
Speaker 15 (39:45):
You're rightfully noting any innovation. Curve starts as many competitors
and it whittles down to two or three. It's just
a it's a rule of thumb in Silicon Valley. So
right now Neuro is entering the space. There's Weimo, there's Tesla,
and there's Neuro. In China, there's several other competitors. Right
in Europe there are no right and so on level
(40:05):
four capability. So what I think is happening is you're
seeing a whittling down because of the resources, the training data,
the amount of years that you need to do to
train across all these streets. It's not a software company
that you can just start up out of scratch. So
I think one of the things that you'll see also
in robotics is you'll see this whittling down of competition.
(40:28):
And you see Boston Dynamics, which is owned by Hinda,
which is very interesting. They're doing quite well, and they
reveal the humanoid. You know, I've been very careful and
skeptical about the development of humanoids, and I would say
that this is the first time I've seen humanoids in
action that look practical, and so I think you'll see
that in robotics as well. I think you'll see that
(40:49):
in generative media. I think you'll see that in agents.
So a lot of these platforms will start to whittle
down to two, three, maybe four players, and this year
will be the year of that, which is why inference.
You know, one of the other things that we're seeing
here is more further evidence that inference is going to
exceed training in terms of compute, and that flip that
flipping if you will, right, if I can use a
(41:10):
Bitcoin term, that flippening is means a lot. So demand
for compute is far exceeding supply.
Speaker 8 (41:18):
Even with the.
Speaker 15 (41:18):
HBM shortage, it's going to increase that. So there's a
battle royale happening here in compute.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Steve Jang Kindred Avenge is hitting literally the biggest stories
of the week.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
We've had hair out of ces. We have much more
to come. Stay with us. This has been bog tech.
Speaker 8 (41:43):
The story in.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Markets right now is tech is down in video off
by eight tens one percent. Had been much lower over
the course of the week. We've kind of not had
any of the euphour it we expected. We all came
to Las Vegas thinking that in video, who, in Steve
Jang's words, was the king maker of AI. The fed
of A would tell us something profound that would keep
the stock going higher.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
And it's not really panned out that way, even.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Though we kind of did said, look that five hundred
billion dollars of inbound I see in revenue in twenty
twenty six, that's going to be higher. Maybe we even
get eight two hundredths into China and yet so high expectations.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Look AMD, what more can lisas?
Speaker 8 (42:17):
Who do?
Speaker 2 (42:18):
She made up a term? Was it yotto flop?
Speaker 3 (42:20):
She talked about the sheer scale or compute that's still necessary,
the winning formula that she's seeing and sock is down
qualcon though, really managed to impress the markets from robotics.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Itself into the market that everyone was already talking about.
You know, so you see the chipmakers say, okay, the
next phase is physical AI. We did learn some hard
lessons that it's difficult out there.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Memory is a big story. And then there's robots.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Right, it is the Consumer Electronics Show, and there were
real robots.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
To see and what we hear at fourteen different humanoids,
not to mention the furry friends that we're seeing around here.
That are going to be a companion to your child
or to the elderly. It's been extraordinary to be here
on the floor of CES and you see the level
of innovation. Stuff that will stick, stuff that definitely won't.
I still haven't tried that lollipop that plays music as.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
You eat it.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
There.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah, and we got some deals, we got some m
and A, we got some fundraising. But it is the
best way to start the year.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
It is, I mean, boy, still talking about those valuations
and flopping as well.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That's it for this edition at.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Bloomberg Tech, but don't forget later today an exclusive interview
is coming with a co founder and CEO of Minimax.
That's right here from CS to discuss the Hong Kong
listening China IPO market for all things AI is on.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Fire IPO twenty twenty six, looking good. Recap on the
pod you know where to find it. For the final
time from Las Vegas, this is Bloomberg Tech.
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