January 12, 2026 • 43 mins
Bloomberg’s Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow discuss Apple’s decision to use Alphabet’s Gemini to power Siri in a multiyear deal. Plus, Nvidia plans to invest $1 billion over five years in a new lab with Eli Lilly & Co. to speed up the use of AI in the pharmaceutical industry. And, Paramount sues Warner Bros. Discovery and plans to nominate directors to the board, stepping up hostilities in its takeover efforts.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eva Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up in video. Plans to
invest one billion dollars over five years in a new
lab with Eli Lilly to speed up the use of
AI in the pharmaceutical industry.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Plus paramount sues Warner Brothers Discovery, and plans to nominate
directors to the board as it's increasingly hostile. Takeover bid
takes aim to upset Netflix.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
An alphabet breaches four trillion dollars in market value. This
is CNBC reports Apple has picked Gemini to power Siri
this year, and.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Then those moves fall again, and really we've got anxiety
across the market's more broadly aired digging into the market
implications of what seems to be a dialing up.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
In the administration's fight with a FED.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
That is what the market tries to digest and why
we see a bit of a sell America theme at
the moment. Yes, they're small moves in terms of benchmarks
for stocks were down by a tenth of a percent
on anastat one hundred, but we're seeing bigger moves when
you're looking what's happening in the bomb market. In the dollar,
for example, we're seeing thirty year years once again, pushing
up two basis points, seeing the dollar on the downside.
All of this as we try and bake in the
macro implications. We look to CPI tomorrow, but you're looking
(01:26):
at what's underneath the hood right now.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, the big breaking news of the last hour is
that Apple has selected Google's Gemini model to power serri
this year. Reporting from CNBC citing an Apple's statement, and
you can see a big reaction in the stock the
moment the headlines hit, it has faded.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I'll take you back to.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
November when Bloomberg's Mark German reported that a deal was
very close, that Apple would pay Google one billion dollars
per year and that this was just an interim until
Apple could get its own foundation models together, but or
continue to track that story. Another interesting trends action in
the market this morning Nvidia co investing one billion dollars
(02:04):
with Eli Lilly into a Silicon Valley based lab split
over five years. AI Pharmaceuticals for the details are interesting here,
Cara and we.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Want to get those details, and we can do exactly
that with Katie Greifeld, which is over at the JP
Morgan Healthcare Conference, indeed looking at Silicon Valley, getting ever
closer to the world of health.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Katie, what'd you make of this deal?
Speaker 6 (02:28):
Yeah, this was a really interesting headline to wake up to,
especially when you remember that Eli Lilly partnered with Nvivia
back in October to develop an AI supercomputer. So the
details on this specific deals as you guys run through them.
One billion dollars OVERFI fears to build a facility in
Silicon Valley, basically a new lab. We don't have much
(02:49):
details when it comes to the terms beyond that, but
both companies have described this as a joint investment. And
I just actually spoke to the CFO of Eli Lilly,
Lucas Montarge, about what the ultimate vision is here when
it comes to AI and healthcare and this specific partnership,
and he said, this is really about drug discovery. It's
still early days, of course, they haven't built the facility yet,
(03:11):
but the hope is that this will help basically in
discovering drugs to really target and treat those really hard
to treat diseases. Think gene therapy for example. So again
early days, but some big ambitions.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Here Bloomber's Katie Greefelk just down the road at the
JP Morgan Healthcare conference all day long here in San Francisco,
less than two weeks into the new year, and in
Video is already dominating the news flow. I want to
get to Denny Fish, portfolio manager on the Global Technology
an innovation team at Janis Henderson and the Frank Reality visit.
In video is the top holding across a number of
funds that you manage. What do you make of that
(03:46):
relationship between in video and ELI.
Speaker 7 (03:48):
Yeah, well it actually it makes a ton of sense
to me.
Speaker 8 (03:51):
I mean, if we think about what's grabbed all the
attention over the last three years since the chat ChiPT moment,
it's effectively been the idea of the digital manifestation of AI.
But the reality is, if we think about the profoundness
of how this will impact the economy over time and
society more broadly, the physical manifestation of AI is as big,
(04:12):
if not a bigger opportunity. And if you think about
drug discovery and what that means for society, and then
just think about how far we've come with autonomous driving,
where we're going with robotics. They are all these different
verticals where it makes a lot of sense for Nvidia
to be leaning into. And frankly, in Vidia has got
some of the most the best talent in the world
(04:34):
and to see these partnerships with market leaders makes a
ton of sense.
Speaker 7 (04:37):
And you know, I bring it back.
Speaker 8 (04:38):
Sometimes you get this argument of circularity, but the reality is,
if you're Jensen and you have a firm belief at
just how big these market opportunities are, you should be
leaning and hard to this intment co investments into labs
like they're doing with Lily, or direct investments into companies
like they're potentially doing with Open AI.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
We a let's one of miss driving. A lot of
people get it. I wrote about it extensively this weekend.
We're going to talk about it later in the program.
The go to market in the first instance is for
Mercedes that we use hardware and software. But with pharmaceuticals
drug discovery research, what is the go to market that
then video is going to pull off in the future.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Well to the so so far.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
If we think about pharmaceuticals, where we've seen the early
benefits of AI have been in things like the clinical process,
you know, getting drugs that have already been discovered through
that process, internal efficiencies, marketing, things like that. The real,
you know, the big prize out there is drug discovery.
(05:41):
It's finding solutions to problems that we just couldn't get
there without AI or would have taken much much longer.
So the go to market is actually direct partnerships with
these companies to fast forward the discovery process.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Denny.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That speaks to the broadening out that we're starting to
see the market. We're also going to talk about that
the fact that we are seeing the S and P
five hundred actually doing a bit of a challenge in
terms of returns versus some of the mags seven names.
How much does it mean that we've already juiced the
valuation side of the equation for in video or is
AI infrastructure still going to be the key watchword for twenty.
Speaker 8 (06:17):
Six Well, so far, all the data points would suggest
that the investments into AI infrastructure are going to continue
to be quite robust, and we would fully expect that,
and you know, and so far, you know, I just
looking back, you know, I mean Ed was talking about
(06:37):
alphabet earlier in the relationship with Apple. Just watching the
leap frogging effects you know with you know, open Ai
and Xai and Gemini, that's very healthy and as long
as we continue to see that. And then bringing back
to you know, in Vidia and VideA now is you
know they announced last week Ruben is fully in production
(06:58):
that is going to have materi aerial impacts as it
relates to inference. Productivity versus training and inference is the
next big handoff. And so if you're a believer that
we are now in this period where we're going to
start seeing increasing deployment of these applications, inference is going
to go through the roof and as a result, that's
(07:19):
going to continue to sustain the investment profile.
Speaker 7 (07:22):
So we expected to be pretty healthy.
Speaker 8 (07:23):
Now, I will say when you're talking about the broader
SMP five hundred, I mean one of the thesis that
we've had for the last three years as AI has
really started to take hold, is this is going to
be very impactful across all industries. And if you believe that,
and the companies that are able to get revenue lift
because of deployment of AI, but then at the same
(07:44):
time are able to drive cost efficiencies that should be
pretty good for multiples. So I'm not surprised to see
the market, you know, sort of anticipating of sorts, some
of the benefits we might get from AI.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The market's all allo got more discerning on who has
to pay for the AI of structure and what that
costs in terms of debt. Denny, I'm looking at again
yet another number, three trillion dollars, this time coming from
Moody saying how much the data center infrastructure build out
is going to cost up until twenty thirty. I mean,
McKinsey had already put seven trillion dollars on that number.
But is there a worry as to who has to
(08:18):
actually pay for it?
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Denny, Well, of course there is.
Speaker 8 (08:21):
You know, the good news is the majority of this
is being funded by the hyperscalers, and they generate the
free cash flows to actually be able to fulfill the
commitments that they've made. And they're all playing the twenty
year game. I mean, we've just seen that with you know,
the number of you know, power agreements they're being struck
between you know, Meta and Google, Microsoft and others, and
(08:44):
so we feel pretty good there now. Now clearly, you know,
the debt markets are going to have to remain healthy.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
We're going to have to continue to see a.
Speaker 8 (08:52):
Progress as it relates to you know, you know the
ambitions of these companies, but there's also something else too.
You know, when you look those numbers, there's also a
lot of double counting in it. You really have to
parse it back to get to the real meat of
what's necessary. And then you know, also there are natural
governors at just how fast this can get deployed. So
(09:13):
the deployment of the capital is going to be pretty measured.
And that's what makes this very different than say the
dot com era, where so much capital came into areas
like telecom infrastructure so fast and it was very easy
to get that stuff deployed.
Speaker 7 (09:27):
This is hard.
Speaker 8 (09:28):
You look at what's going on at Stargate and Abilene,
Texas and trying to put up ten gigawatts, the labor
that's needed, the power, just the expertise, and you know,
it's a heavy lift, and so that it'selfs a natural
governor on just how fast it can get deployed.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
This is what we were trying to pass at CES
last week. The baseline assumption very quickly, Denny, is that
demand still outstrips in video and AMD's ability to supply.
How does that set us up for this year?
Speaker 8 (09:56):
Well, that's good for infrastructure, you know, because you're in
a situation like that, and even a TSMC for example,
we're second topic.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, where you.
Speaker 8 (10:06):
Know, you only have so much capacity and you can
only bring up incremental founderies so quickly, and so as
a result, that's really good from a pricing standpoint, particularly
when you're the only game in town, and for certain
aspects Nvidia is still the only game in town too.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Denny Fish Janis Henderson Investors. Great to have you on
all the games we are coming up. Paramount in ram
sub efforts to caught a plan merger between Warner Brothers
Discovery and Netflix.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
The latest in the media merger saga. That's next. There's
a bloom Beg Tech Paramounts guidance.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, it says it plans to nominate directors to Warner
Brothers Discoveries board to vote against the approval of a
merger with Netflix, of course, and the company has filed
a suit to force Warner Brothers to disclose information about
the proposed Netflix Warner Brothers tie ups entertained a reporter
Pholix Jillette joins us on what is an ever more
hostile potential takeover?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So suing for more information? What do they want to
really demonstrate to invest us here?
Speaker 9 (11:10):
I mean, at this point, you know, they're choosing to
raise the hostility versus raising their bit Yes, and I
think you know they've been campaigning shareholders join our tender offer.
You know, they've said for weeks now our offer was
better than the Netflix offer, accusing you know, the Warner
Brothers board of not being transparent during the proceedings. And
now they're making this move to essentially say, you know,
(11:33):
you have to provide the information to shareholders so they
can judge which is a better offer. And to do that,
you know, the big most contentious issue for months now
has been how do you value the cable assets that
Warner Brothers has planned to spin off? Prior to selling
the studios and the streaming business to Netflix.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
The Netflix offered twenty seven dollars a share for the
studios and streaming spin off the cable networks paramount thirty
dollars a share all of it, but basically assigning a
value to the networks of zero dollars. This is a saga.
It will play out over time. It's a really difficult
question for you as editor, hear Felix, But like what
happens next? Is there a real chance that Paramount can
(12:15):
force a hostile takeover through this mechanism.
Speaker 10 (12:19):
They're going to try?
Speaker 7 (12:20):
You know?
Speaker 9 (12:20):
I mean I think, like you know, the shareholders at
this point, a lot of them seem to be sitting
on the fence, you know, in terms of who they're
going to support. I think a lot of them are
hoping that Paramount would come in with a higher bid,
go over the thirty dollars to share. That hasn't happened yet,
you know, I think again, you know, David Ellison and
(12:41):
Paramount have been trying to advocate for this notion that
like the Netflix deal isn't even going to happen. They
have too many regulatory issues, you know, putting aside the
fact that if Paramount offer was except that they'd have
their own issues in Europe with the States. So yeah,
I mean, this continues to just get more and more hostile,
(13:01):
and this is you know, the next step is this
lawsuit and a proxy fight over the director's.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Bloomberg's Feenix to that, thank you very much. Another top
story deep seek founder liangwen Feng's hedge fund surge more
than fifty percent last year, making it the second best
performer among China quant funds.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
The strong performance.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Helped boost the cash available for deep seek itself. Let's
get out to Bloomberg Tech executive editor Peter Elstrom. You know, two,
there's the Bloomberg story, right, which is about a quant
funds you know, amazing performance. But in the reporting it's
super clear the read through that people are making is
that that the returns on that the earnings from that
fund's performance can be taken by deep Seak's founder and
(13:43):
used to give deep seek a bigger budget for research
and deploying its models.
Speaker 11 (13:48):
Right right, That's exactly true. Yeah, there, So there's a
finance story here, but there's also a tech story, and
the finance story is very impressive. The hedge fund high Fire,
that was really the place where deep seek was born,
had a great year. Returns were fifty seven percent on
average across their various funds. That is very good for
the founder early on one thing, as you mentioned, it's
(14:08):
good performance compared with the other quant funds out there,
but it also gives him a much bigger checkbook to
be able to go out there and make new investments
now that probably.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Would be in Deep Seek. Deep Seek has.
Speaker 11 (14:19):
Gained a lot of momentum since a year ago when
they had their big breakthrough dropped the bombshell that they
had invented this LLM for a fraction of the cost
of Opening Eyes with very similar performance. So now you
could see the founder invest more money into Deep Seek,
perhaps chase after a little bit of the capital intensive
projects that we've seen in the US in particular, we
(14:40):
haven't seen those kind of investments in China so far,
or he could invest in other kinds of AI initiatives
that may not be directly the same as Deep Seek.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Because the whole claim about Deep Sek has it only
cost them six million dollars, And the theory in this
particular reporting is that maybe they're getting revenues of some
seven hundred million dollars That could go a long way
if you're thinking about the costs of doing the business here.
But talk to us about why they're able to outperform
so much. What is it they're betting on? How these
quant funds managing to be so superior.
Speaker 11 (15:11):
Well, partly with Deep Seek early on. They were able
to do this because there were a lot of constraints
around the AI initiatives in particular, and we've written a
fair bit about High Flyer in the past. They have
these quantitative techniques to be able to outstrip their peers
within the China market. They were the number two fund
as you mentioned. Also, the China market has been on fire.
(15:31):
There have been a lot of investments in other kinds
of AI models. Deep Seak hasn't gone public yet, but
two of the other AI models within the country have
gone public, giving them a lot of momentum here. So
the market's been very strong. They've been able to take
advantage of that. But again, as you say, they now
have one hundred times as much money as they used
to start up Deep Seek in the early days. What
are they going to do with that money? How are
they going to invest it? They're not talking about this
(15:53):
publicly of course at this point, but we would expect
more things to come from High Flyer and Deep Seek
in the future.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I mean, just think many Max went public on Friday.
It was a ut one hundred percent. It's up fifteen
percent again today. Peter Elstrom on all things Asia. We
so appreciate it, thank you. Coming up a bit more
on Asia. Could Chinese evs actually dodge tariffs in the EU.
We're going to discuss the global electric vehicle wars the
Stephanie Valdez Street from Cox of Automotive that's next as.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
A BlueBag tech.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
The European Union is weighing minimum prices for evs exported
to the block from China that actually.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Would replace steep tariffs.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Is it a sign that we've got some easy trade
tensions even as the US presses Europe to.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Take it off line?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
On Beijing here to discuss this is Stephanie Valdez Street,
director of Industry Insights for Cox Automotive. That was sort
of the latest news headline that we get that maybe
BYD will be able to sell into Europe and not
have to have huge tarifts that eats its margin. Are
we going to see them able to tackle the European
market and continue to scale.
Speaker 12 (16:58):
Yeah, you know, we look at the electric vehicle market, right,
China definitely is dominating and you think about their strategy
is to export, Right, They've exported millions of vehicles and
they've had a lot of luck in increasing share and
so the UK, it's basically, you know, it's a compromise, right,
the EU, Europe needs to meet those climate goals, right,
(17:19):
they need to increase their EV adoption. They rely on
China for minerals, right, batteries. So I think it's a
good compromise, and I think China will continue to increase
their share in those markets, not only UK, but some
of the emerging markets as well.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Meanwhile, one of the biggest feedback I often get with
my social is about the lack of BYD or Chinese
offerings here in the United States.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Is that ever going to come.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
To bat or they're just forever going to be shut
out because it's really bets on TESLA and also pushing
away against evs more broadly.
Speaker 12 (17:52):
Yeah, you know, I think if you look at the US,
that's one thing I think both political parties can agree
on is to keep China out. And so I think
that's kind of where we're at now. Out in the future,
you know, maybe we could see something that similar happened
to the Japanese and the Koreans. They come, they build
a partner and they build manufacturing plants. But for now
the near term, we're not going to have those other
than the ones that we already have under Geele, which
(18:14):
is the Vulgo and pole Star. But definitely, I think
consumers are seeing evs when they travel abroad and getting
the experience of writing in a Chinese ozem and discovering
how good quality high tech, and so I think that
it would resonate with US consumers at the right.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Price, Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Last week at CS Nvidia outlined a full stack hardware
software solution for autonomous driving, and it very quickly raised
questions about Tesla.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
So I asked Jensen Wong about it. Listen to this.
Speaker 13 (18:44):
I think the Tesla stack is the most advanced AV
stack in the world, and I think the Tesla AV
operations is the most advanced in the world, and I'm
I'm fairly certain that they were already using them to
end AI.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Mercedes will ship a vehicle this quarter capable of point
to point hands free using in video technology. Does Tesla
finally have something real in the market to worry about?
Speaker 7 (19:16):
I think they do.
Speaker 12 (19:17):
You think about some of the even Rivian's another player,
right that they at their aidea they announce their plan.
I think definitely there's a lot of competition, and I
still think, you know, we're making some tremendous progress, but
I think one of the challenges continues to be regulation safety.
But I think in a video announcement with that technology
to really identify those edge cases which will help with
(19:38):
regulations more credibility. So definitely Tesla has some challenges out
there for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
The reason I find it fascinating is that if you
are a Tesla owner, you know, you know all about
full self driving FSD. It's a part of the pitch
from Tesla, But the vast majority of the auto market,
at least in America, maybe they don't think about, Okay,
I'm going to buy a vehicle based on its ability
to do this. Do you think that changes from here
on in?
Speaker 12 (20:03):
I think I think more from consumer, it's more about
the in car experience. So we keep hearing this software
defined vehicle, So I don't think they're going into like
I want this autonomous or full self driving. It's more
about what kind of consumer experience can I have with
technology in the vehicle, So in vehicle experience, So maybe
it's the ability to have some of that ADA as technology,
(20:25):
but I don't think that's the main driver, it's more
about what's that experience going to be and what other
options that vehicle provide for me.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
In many ways, it's about marketing, getting people in the
cars to understand what it feels like, and then sort
of perpetuate that demand for wanting more and more and more.
From your perspective, is the consumer mindset there from a
safety perspective? Is the regulation there from that perspective as well?
Speaker 7 (20:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (20:48):
I think so. I think that's the one thing if
you think about you know, I think when you think
about Robotechi's right, we're starting to see a lot of
that with wai Mo and Zook, some other companies, Tesla
getting consumers into those taxi atonos, So they're getting to
finally experience that. But I still think, you know, it's
been hard to get consumers to trans you know, kind
of consider electric vehicles to get into an autonomous vehicle
(21:11):
is in more so. So, I think there's still a
lot of work to be done in terms of credibility
and safety perceptions for autonomous vehicles from a consumer perspective.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Stephanie, look forward to twenty twenty six for US, What
is it you expect to have in United States? In
particular in electric vehicles and any growth that may or
may not come to your mind.
Speaker 12 (21:33):
Yeah, you know, twenty twenty five it ended exactly where
we thought it would. Our report comes out tomorrow, but
we're going to be about two percent down your year
round up to one point three million vehicles. But going
into twenty twenty six, right.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
We got rid of the characteristic.
Speaker 12 (21:48):
We no longer have the IRA tax intetive, the corporate
average fuel economy standards have been less stringent, the Calvern waiver.
But given all that, we still have twenty plus new
EV's launching in twenty twenty six, so I think we're
still going to see momentum. It's going to be hard,
but I think consumers.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Are going to have more product.
Speaker 12 (22:08):
But I think the one thing which we've talked about
before in the past is the affordability. If you look
at the current product lineupsues that are offered over sixty
percent for over sixty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
So that's definitely about is Treat.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It's definitely about it is Treated, Director of Industry in
Size Cox Automotive, thank you so much for coming up.
We'll speak with LUTs Capital co founder Peter Herbert about
the firm's latest fund, its biggest fund. Silicon Valley meets DC.
This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. There's
(22:47):
a story we're going to go deeper on later in
the program, the President saying that if credit card companies
don't respect an interest cap with ten percent in the year,
they will be facing uh.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Illegal activity claims.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Basically, these are two of the more tech focus names
Klana a firm, both down on the news. I would
note American Express is also down as an example significantly.
We're going to get to that later in the program.
Back to one of the top stories, we've had confirmation
from Google that it is entered into a multi year
agreement with Apple for Gemini to be the underpinnings of
the next gen AI SERI.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
You see, when the.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
News broke just before the program about ten thirty East
in time, a big jump in alphabet shares that sent
market cap through four trillion.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
They then faded.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And I'd remind you as well that Bloomberg did report
in November that a deal was close for Apple to
pay Google about a billion dollars a year for use
of that very large one point two trillion parameter model,
Carol what else.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Well, let's dig in on Alphabet and it's recent moves,
but also where it stands versus the rest of the market.
Bluembog equity reporter comen Ryanikey has been really digging in
to the idea that maybe we're broadening out.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Maybe MAG seven isn't just a sure far bet. Alphabet
was a sure far bet last year.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Tell us about the discern that was starting to see
among these key megacaps.
Speaker 14 (24:02):
Yeah, I mean what we saw last year is continuing
at least in the first few weeks of this year.
Where the winners and losers are really important. So Alphabet
was a winner last year. It was the biggest outperformer
and one of only two stocks in the MAG seven
group that outperforms the broader market, the other one being
in Nvidia. So it's really established itself as dominant in
the AI trend, and you know, maintaining that momentum going
(24:25):
forward is really important, especially considering that we're starting to
see some of these other names lag a little bit.
You know, they're just slowing down in terms of overall
growth and heading into earning season, some of those things
are expected to continue, right we're just we're hitting the
law of large numbers. Growth is expected to slow, and
so that might translate, you know, into stock games as well.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Been an interesting morning for Alphabet and Apple and the
news flow around the deal to improve Siri, and I
was reflecting on literally just the ticker, right, you know,
Alphabet saw and breaches four trillion dollars market cap then
kind of fade straight away. What did you see in
the markets this morning in terms of how people reacted.
Speaker 14 (25:08):
Yeah, so we saw that big spike for both Google
and Alpha or sorry, Google and Apple shares. It did
push Google over four trillion in market cap. It's also
surpassed Apple recently, so it's the second largest company in
the s and P five hundred million in the market
other than in Nvidia. And it's interesting because you know,
we did see those those gains fade a little bit.
(25:29):
They're up now. I think both stocks are trading in
positive territory. But the overall market, I think we are
still seeing a lot of macro news weigh on this.
It's been a little bit all over the place today.
So big tech is obviously still super important. These stocks
are really important. They're so large they add a lot
and can weigh a lot on the broader index. But
we also are seeing that there is a broadening out.
(25:51):
People are looking at other sectors, and you know, it's
not just big tech that's always driving the gains and
losses in the market.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Bloombe's common. Ryan, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Let's go from the public markets private markets, where interest
in frontier tech is incredibly high. Lux Capital is raised
one point five billion dollars for its ninth fund, the
largest in the venture firms more than twenty year history.
Peter Abair, partner and co founder of Lots Capitals with
us here in San Francisco.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's exciting news, right the ninth fund that the largest ever.
You turned away about a billion dollars of capital. What's
very interesting about it, though, is the consistency. The themes
are the same, the focus is the same. What do
you want to do with this fund?
Speaker 15 (26:32):
So we will be doing more of the same, but
just accelerating that piece. And so we've been investing now
for more than twenty five years in physical, computational life sciences,
but really at the cutting edge and the frontier of
all these different scientific disciplines, and so as we say
science doesn't scale itself, and so that's where we're going
to be put in the thrust of our investment.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Peter, we enjoy having you on the program. The firm you,
Josh Dino when they cut when all of you come on.
But it seems very disciplined, very calm. Check sizes one
hundred thousand. This is exciting though. These are some of
the domains that are moving the fastest, and actually, would
you reflect that this administration has allowed you to do that?
(27:15):
The areas of defense, other areas adjacent to AI is
something that the Trump administration has moved quickly to support.
Speaker 15 (27:22):
So certainly in areas like defense, kind of broadly reindustrialization
a lot of the things that we do. It's certainly
having a moment, and that's really reflected one from the
technological waves that are happening. One of the things that
is top of everyone's mind right now is physical AI.
Right now, there's also the JP Morgan healthcare event happening
(27:44):
in San Francisco. You're seeing huge breakthroughs in medical robotics
and in computational drug discovery. But absolutely, if you look
at the world, it's an uncertain place, and defense technology
has been really soaring as Large Nations state its rearm
and focus under Terrens Peter Andreill.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Of course, one of the key bets you made and.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
We had Parmalucky on the show last week. From ces
of this fund, how much will be to double down
on prior bets or how much will be to take
out totally new bets on new companies coming to your inbox.
Speaker 15 (28:19):
So the spirit of this fund is really thinking about
as a blank slate, starting with the portfolio of probably
forty to fifty core positions. Historically we've had companies that
have gone from one fund to another cross fund investing,
but it's generally not the focus and philosophy of each
new core fund that we.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Raise one hundred thousand dollars to one hundred million, that's
a huge breadth that you're giving yourselves. Where do you
think you will be excited to deploy? Have the foundational
models moved forward? Are we seeing more interesting areas of
more specific niche parts of the building the llms or
is it more about application? Where are you thinking about
(28:57):
getting excited for?
Speaker 15 (29:00):
So our mental model and framework really is what we
describe as moving from two D two dimensional AI to
three D and that's really areas of robotics and automation
and biology, but it's seeing AI for the first time
coming out of the digital world into the physical And
just one example of that is really just the momentous
(29:21):
opportunity here. Approximately ninety percent of us GDP is not
digitally native. It is in the physical world. It's construction,
it's heavy industry, and that's thirty trillion dollars of total
us GDP. So the opportunity really exist for technology investors
focused on software, data other very specific areas that now
(29:44):
have the opportunity basically ten x total addressable market.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Peter, you're co founder of this firm.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Has the composition of the LP's changed from fund one
through to fund nine, and where the interests in you
is coming from?
Speaker 15 (30:00):
Earliest a believer in LUX was a gentleman, Bill Conway,
one of the founders of the Carlisle Law, and so
he was LUX Venture is one. Today we manage seven
billion dollars on behalf of endowments and foundations and state pensions.
So obviously going from an initial individual albeit a quasi institution,
(30:22):
to now serving some of the world's most elite institutions.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I'm really interested in the core competencies you're looking for
later in the program. We have one X, the humanoid
robotics company on right, and they're out with their own
world model. But the problem right now is that in Nvidia,
as was made very plain last week, basically come out
and say we'll do it all for you on the
hardware and software side. If you're a humanoid robots company
(30:46):
or a different physical AI offering, what's left to look
for in that regard.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
Believe in it or not.
Speaker 15 (30:52):
There will not just be one company that rules all others,
and so there are a number of different opportunities. And
even with Nvidia, as prominas they are, there are other
up and comers on the silicon side, certainly on the
software side training there are a number of different companies
that are attacking again physical implementations of AI, from physical
(31:13):
intelligence that's here in San Francisco to Applied Intuition, which
is a lux portfolio company which is really creating an
operating system in mobility. So there is abundant opportunity.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
And is that global Peter in terms of not just
the consumer base, but where these companies are getting birthed.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
How broad do you go?
Speaker 15 (31:32):
Well, one X not an American company. There are many
global competitors in this marketplace, even in AI. Right now,
we're an investor in a company called Sikana Ai based
in Japan. We've made probably about a dozen or so
investments across Europe in the last fund. So technology is global,
it's broadly distributed. San Francisco remains the epicenter, but you
(31:56):
will see it popping up coming out of a lot
of large research institutions across the globe.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Fascinating p DA Bere We thank you, partner co founder
lux Capital. On the latest fun announcement coming up, we
talk about that company one X, the maker of Neo.
It says this new AI model will give its home
robot the ability to learn new tasks from scratch.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I'll talk to the CEO. This has been their tech.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
We've got news for you from the world of robotics.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
One X Technologies, the maker of the humanoid robot Neo,
has an update for its one Ex World model, an
AI video model grounded in physics. According to the company,
the update will make Neo capable of executing on new
AI abilities with a simple text or voice prompt. That's
even if the robot has zero experience of doing the
task before joining us is one X Technology CEO and
(32:54):
CTO Bernt Bernick.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Welcome back to bloombog Tech.
Speaker 10 (32:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
I want to keep this really simple to start.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
What is an example of a task that the update
to the model allows for NEO to do that it
couldn't have done for the first time without the update.
Speaker 16 (33:12):
So I mean to me, it's all about like things
just being anything that you don't have in your data set,
but still being able to have a sensible approach.
Speaker 10 (33:23):
So like the first time I really kind of.
Speaker 16 (33:25):
Like saw this and it was a simple question, just
asking the robot, hey, can you can you pick the
post it note down from the board and read it?
But it might never have seen a post and it's like,
of course, we don't have any training data on us
using robots to like pick post it notes off a
board and like look at it and read what's on it.
Speaker 10 (33:42):
But it can actually do it really well, and it's
not aji yet.
Speaker 16 (33:45):
There are examples where it fails, But what it does
is the ability to have this very sensible approach to anything,
which is a cornerstone of learning, because now all you
need is the robots teaching themselves how to do all
these tasks by actually experimenting and doing this in the
real world.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
This model, how good is it? You know?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Last week CS and Video extol the virtues of using
their open models, and inside Neo, the brain of Neo
is an Nvidia inferenced chip, right, so why not just
using Vidia's model too.
Speaker 16 (34:22):
We have a very deep collaboration made in VideA and
we do use a lot of their technology in the stack.
I think to us also, it's very much about the
embodiment and the husband designed really over the last decade
to be as close to a human as possible. Because
if you take all of the knowledge that we have
in the world, like everything you can see on YouTube
(34:42):
or any kind of video content, and you train a
model on this and now you want to pick up
the cup or open the door, if your robot is
actually not similar enough to a human, this doesn't work
anymore because you wouldn't do the task in the same manner.
And this is quite unique to one because I think
there's there's a couple of things that really puts us apart,
and it's that we have robots that are so close
(35:05):
to humans in how they interact with the world, but
also that they're safe so they can actually try to
do something and if they fail, then the world is
still okay. You don't want your like I don't know,
you don't want your door to be scratched because there
was a robot trying to open it. And this puts
us in a category where our approach today it is
probably a bit different, like what the standard is now
(35:26):
and also why we're so we're very excited about these
world models where finally we see robotic scaling following the
same scaling laws as for example, video pre training from
the big video models, like so our video from our competitors,
and go in on.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
The safety a little bit more because you're talking about
how it stops the door getting scratched, but for many
it's about well, when robots start learning to do things themselves,
therein lies the safety issue.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
What god rails do you have in place?
Speaker 16 (35:56):
So we have some exciting work on that that will
come out soon.
Speaker 10 (36:00):
We are doing.
Speaker 16 (36:03):
The proper things on the safety side with respect to
following the standards, helping develop some of the standards, but
also ensuring that we, for example, have externally audited work
of our safety work by an independent by independent third party,
of course, But to me, safety has many layers. You
have what we call like the passive intrinsic safety, where
(36:23):
humans are actually very safe in the sense that we have.
Speaker 10 (36:26):
To actively work to hurt each other.
Speaker 16 (36:29):
We don't hurt each other by accident usually, and this
is something we build into the machine the same kind
of just you have to be soft, compliant, lightweight, low energy,
so you can be safe in among people and in
the environment. And then of course you have the AI alignment,
which is equally important, and how do you ensure that
you can always take the safest leads to risky path
(36:49):
for whatever task you want to achieve. And this is
also something that's incredibly exciting about these world models that
they understand the world so well and also how the
physical world works, that you can not only ask for
how am I going to do this task, but how
am I going to do this task in a manner
that is as safe as possible?
Speaker 10 (37:07):
What are the things that could possibly be wrong go wrong?
And then the model actively.
Speaker 16 (37:11):
Reasons about like, hey, here are the things that I
can visualize going wrong here, So I'm going to take
this path here, which is the safest path.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
The problem being sold for other than ultimately accelerating deployment
of NEO in the real world. Is the burden of
real world data gathering and a lot of focus right
now on simulation and synthetic data. Just talk a little
bit about that. Some of our audiences is our industry,
they're more technical and they'll want to know how you
did it with this particular model.
Speaker 16 (37:38):
Yeah, so I think really, if you boil it down
to the simplest parts, it is if your embodiment, if
your robot is close enough to a human, then all
of these learnings that they have from video they actually
transfer pretty well. And once you can do that, and
your robot can now approach almost any task as long
(37:58):
as you.
Speaker 10 (37:58):
Can ask for it.
Speaker 16 (38:01):
Your intelligence doesn't scale with the amount of data you
can collect with humans anymore.
Speaker 10 (38:07):
It actually scales with the number of robots.
Speaker 16 (38:08):
You've deployed, because now you just need enough robots actually
trying to do all these things, and trying to do
these things are useful, right, so you also produce useful work.
But in the process, the robot learns and it quickly
gets better, and now you just want enough robots across
society and doing enough different tasks so that you get
a very large data coverage and then you're progressing very
(38:29):
well on your scaling laws towards general intelligence. But it's
now independent of actually having to use humans to gather
the data to a.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Tel operations sideration exactly, burn x CEO and c to
one X. Is great to have you back here on
boomby Tech. Thank you very much. Carry plenty of other
news headlines.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, and it's time now for talking tech and first start.
Mon Meta has appointed a formatop advisor to President Trump
to a newly created senior management role. Done Power McCormick
will guide the company's aim structure efforts, including securing future
funding from governments and investors for massive data center projects.
Plus Meta also says it has shut down almost five
hundred and fifty thousand accounts in Australia to comply with
(39:10):
the country's new social media ban for kids Now. The law,
which came into effect last year, mandates that services like
Facebook and Instagram block under sixteen year olds from having
accounts or face fines ab up to thirty three million
dollars and anthropic. While it's making a push into healthcare
with tools that allow patients and doctors to access medical
information on its AI chatbot.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Now.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
The new offering is compliant with.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
US medical privacy regulations, allowing providers and consumers to field
protected health.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Data ed okay, coming up.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Credit card issuers are on edge as President Trump calls
for a ten percent interest rate cap on credit cards
for one year.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
We had the details. Next, this is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Allmark is partnering with alphabet to offer Ali and hands
show being on Google Gemini's platform part of the retailer's
race to apply the technology across its operations, from apparel
and consumables to entertainment and food products. Customers will be
able to purchase items on Gemini's browser or mobile app
in the coming months.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Carot, let's talk a bit more about the consumer and
tech and payments. For example, because President Trump is pushing
for a one year cap on credit card interest rates
at ten percent, it's a move that could end the
credit card industry and also ripple through major buy now,
pay later providers. Newberg's page Smith, who covers consumer finance,
is right here. Look, is this going to send shock
(40:35):
waves and people towards alternative forms of financing? If, for example,
these credit cards just can't serve the broad consumer that
they used to.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
If ten percent is the cap, that's a really good question.
Speaker 17 (40:45):
I think we are a bit early to exactly see
how consumers are responding to this, because it's still early days.
Just to be clear, President Trump's statement on Friday evening
and then again last night was really just saying that
that credit card companies, essentially issuers and big banks should
be doing this. The legal levers that he can actually
(41:06):
pull to implement such a proposal would are still very unclear.
We haven't seen any sort of formal proposals. So to
sort of say that there would be fintech, you know,
maybe fintech alternatives, sort of folks along the lines of
so Fi or a firm or Klarna actually stepping into
the void is a bit premature. But although shares have
(41:28):
sort of seemed to react and seem to be identifying
some potential opportunities along those.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Lines, Paige, the president's claim is that some credit card
providers are charging twenty eight up to thirty percent, as
he put it, but also that the consumer might not
even realize that they're being charge interest at a rate
of thirty percent. In our reporting and in evidence, do
we know that to be true among some credit card providers.
Speaker 17 (41:53):
I mean, I'll speak for myself. I think it would
be fair to say that it was a good reminder
this morning and over the weekend to be checking interest
rates on credit cards, as every consumer should be. So
I think it is fair that it's not a widely
known fact of exactly how much it costs consumers to
be swiping, tapping using their credit cards across the board.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
You do a great job, but reminding us that this
is still at these stages and enacting any sort of
proposed cap would take, I believe, in act to congress,
but push us forward to what some of the key
executives have said in response to this potential move.
Speaker 17 (42:29):
Most definitely a quote that stood out to me just
before I came on air as I saw that the
Sofi CEO, Anthony Noto. I believe the quote was giddy
up in terms of the opportunities for Sofi. Sofi actually
does offer credit card to its consumers, but it's really
a firm that's kind of best known for student loan
refinancing and also personal loans for consumers. So that's kind
(42:52):
of a flavor of the tones some executives are striking,
while others are maybe kind of hanging back and seeing
substantively what impact this could have or what opportunities it
could present for their businesses.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Bloomberg's page fith thank you very much. That does it
for this edition of Bloomberg Tech carry.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
So much already as we kick off this week, don't
forget to check out our podcasts. You can find out
on the Terminal, sells online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Back in San Francisco and New York. No longer in Vegas.
This is Bloomberg Tech
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eva Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech coming up in video. Plans to
invest one billion dollars over five years in a new
lab with Eli Lilly to speed up the use of
AI in the pharmaceutical industry.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Plus paramount sues Warner Brothers Discovery, and plans to nominate
directors to the board as it's increasingly hostile. Takeover bid
takes aim to upset Netflix.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
An alphabet breaches four trillion dollars in market value. This
is CNBC reports Apple has picked Gemini to power Siri
this year, and.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Then those moves fall again, and really we've got anxiety
across the market's more broadly aired digging into the market
implications of what seems to be a dialing up.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
In the administration's fight with a FED.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
That is what the market tries to digest and why
we see a bit of a sell America theme at
the moment. Yes, they're small moves in terms of benchmarks
for stocks were down by a tenth of a percent
on anastat one hundred, but we're seeing bigger moves when
you're looking what's happening in the bomb market. In the dollar,
for example, we're seeing thirty year years once again, pushing
up two basis points, seeing the dollar on the downside.
All of this as we try and bake in the
macro implications. We look to CPI tomorrow, but you're looking
(01:26):
at what's underneath the hood right now.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, the big breaking news of the last hour is
that Apple has selected Google's Gemini model to power serri
this year. Reporting from CNBC citing an Apple's statement, and
you can see a big reaction in the stock the
moment the headlines hit, it has faded.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I'll take you back to.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
November when Bloomberg's Mark German reported that a deal was
very close, that Apple would pay Google one billion dollars
per year and that this was just an interim until
Apple could get its own foundation models together, but or
continue to track that story. Another interesting trends action in
the market this morning Nvidia co investing one billion dollars
(02:04):
with Eli Lilly into a Silicon Valley based lab split
over five years. AI Pharmaceuticals for the details are interesting here,
Cara and we.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Want to get those details, and we can do exactly
that with Katie Greifeld, which is over at the JP
Morgan Healthcare Conference, indeed looking at Silicon Valley, getting ever
closer to the world of health.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Katie, what'd you make of this deal?
Speaker 6 (02:28):
Yeah, this was a really interesting headline to wake up to,
especially when you remember that Eli Lilly partnered with Nvivia
back in October to develop an AI supercomputer. So the
details on this specific deals as you guys run through them.
One billion dollars OVERFI fears to build a facility in
Silicon Valley, basically a new lab. We don't have much
(02:49):
details when it comes to the terms beyond that, but
both companies have described this as a joint investment. And
I just actually spoke to the CFO of Eli Lilly,
Lucas Montarge, about what the ultimate vision is here when
it comes to AI and healthcare and this specific partnership,
and he said, this is really about drug discovery. It's
still early days, of course, they haven't built the facility yet,
(03:11):
but the hope is that this will help basically in
discovering drugs to really target and treat those really hard
to treat diseases. Think gene therapy for example. So again
early days, but some big ambitions.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Here Bloomber's Katie Greefelk just down the road at the
JP Morgan Healthcare conference all day long here in San Francisco,
less than two weeks into the new year, and in
Video is already dominating the news flow. I want to
get to Denny Fish, portfolio manager on the Global Technology
an innovation team at Janis Henderson and the Frank Reality visit.
In video is the top holding across a number of
funds that you manage. What do you make of that
(03:46):
relationship between in video and ELI.
Speaker 7 (03:48):
Yeah, well it actually it makes a ton of sense
to me.
Speaker 8 (03:51):
I mean, if we think about what's grabbed all the
attention over the last three years since the chat ChiPT moment,
it's effectively been the idea of the digital manifestation of AI.
But the reality is, if we think about the profoundness
of how this will impact the economy over time and
society more broadly, the physical manifestation of AI is as big,
(04:12):
if not a bigger opportunity. And if you think about
drug discovery and what that means for society, and then
just think about how far we've come with autonomous driving,
where we're going with robotics. They are all these different
verticals where it makes a lot of sense for Nvidia
to be leaning into. And frankly, in Vidia has got
some of the most the best talent in the world
(04:34):
and to see these partnerships with market leaders makes a
ton of sense.
Speaker 7 (04:37):
And you know, I bring it back.
Speaker 8 (04:38):
Sometimes you get this argument of circularity, but the reality is,
if you're Jensen and you have a firm belief at
just how big these market opportunities are, you should be
leaning and hard to this intment co investments into labs
like they're doing with Lily, or direct investments into companies
like they're potentially doing with Open AI.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
We a let's one of miss driving. A lot of
people get it. I wrote about it extensively this weekend.
We're going to talk about it later in the program.
The go to market in the first instance is for
Mercedes that we use hardware and software. But with pharmaceuticals
drug discovery research, what is the go to market that
then video is going to pull off in the future.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Well to the so so far.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
If we think about pharmaceuticals, where we've seen the early
benefits of AI have been in things like the clinical process,
you know, getting drugs that have already been discovered through
that process, internal efficiencies, marketing, things like that. The real,
you know, the big prize out there is drug discovery.
(05:41):
It's finding solutions to problems that we just couldn't get
there without AI or would have taken much much longer.
So the go to market is actually direct partnerships with
these companies to fast forward the discovery process.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Denny.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That speaks to the broadening out that we're starting to
see the market. We're also going to talk about that
the fact that we are seeing the S and P
five hundred actually doing a bit of a challenge in
terms of returns versus some of the mags seven names.
How much does it mean that we've already juiced the
valuation side of the equation for in video or is
AI infrastructure still going to be the key watchword for twenty.
Speaker 8 (06:17):
Six Well, so far, all the data points would suggest
that the investments into AI infrastructure are going to continue
to be quite robust, and we would fully expect that,
and you know, and so far, you know, I just
looking back, you know, I mean Ed was talking about
(06:37):
alphabet earlier in the relationship with Apple. Just watching the
leap frogging effects you know with you know, open Ai
and Xai and Gemini, that's very healthy and as long
as we continue to see that. And then bringing back
to you know, in Vidia and VideA now is you
know they announced last week Ruben is fully in production
(06:58):
that is going to have materi aerial impacts as it
relates to inference. Productivity versus training and inference is the
next big handoff. And so if you're a believer that
we are now in this period where we're going to
start seeing increasing deployment of these applications, inference is going
to go through the roof and as a result, that's
(07:19):
going to continue to sustain the investment profile.
Speaker 7 (07:22):
So we expected to be pretty healthy.
Speaker 8 (07:23):
Now, I will say when you're talking about the broader
SMP five hundred, I mean one of the thesis that
we've had for the last three years as AI has
really started to take hold, is this is going to
be very impactful across all industries. And if you believe that,
and the companies that are able to get revenue lift
because of deployment of AI, but then at the same
(07:44):
time are able to drive cost efficiencies that should be
pretty good for multiples. So I'm not surprised to see
the market, you know, sort of anticipating of sorts, some
of the benefits we might get from AI.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The market's all allo got more discerning on who has
to pay for the AI of structure and what that
costs in terms of debt. Denny, I'm looking at again
yet another number, three trillion dollars, this time coming from
Moody saying how much the data center infrastructure build out
is going to cost up until twenty thirty. I mean,
McKinsey had already put seven trillion dollars on that number.
But is there a worry as to who has to
(08:18):
actually pay for it?
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Denny, Well, of course there is.
Speaker 8 (08:21):
You know, the good news is the majority of this
is being funded by the hyperscalers, and they generate the
free cash flows to actually be able to fulfill the
commitments that they've made. And they're all playing the twenty
year game. I mean, we've just seen that with you know,
the number of you know, power agreements they're being struck
between you know, Meta and Google, Microsoft and others, and
(08:44):
so we feel pretty good there now. Now clearly, you know,
the debt markets are going to have to remain healthy.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
We're going to have to continue to see a.
Speaker 8 (08:52):
Progress as it relates to you know, you know the
ambitions of these companies, but there's also something else too.
You know, when you look those numbers, there's also a
lot of double counting in it. You really have to
parse it back to get to the real meat of
what's necessary. And then you know, also there are natural
governors at just how fast this can get deployed. So
(09:13):
the deployment of the capital is going to be pretty measured.
And that's what makes this very different than say the
dot com era, where so much capital came into areas
like telecom infrastructure so fast and it was very easy
to get that stuff deployed.
Speaker 7 (09:27):
This is hard.
Speaker 8 (09:28):
You look at what's going on at Stargate and Abilene,
Texas and trying to put up ten gigawatts, the labor
that's needed, the power, just the expertise, and you know,
it's a heavy lift, and so that it'selfs a natural
governor on just how fast it can get deployed.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
This is what we were trying to pass at CES
last week. The baseline assumption very quickly, Denny, is that
demand still outstrips in video and AMD's ability to supply.
How does that set us up for this year?
Speaker 8 (09:56):
Well, that's good for infrastructure, you know, because you're in
a situation like that, and even a TSMC for example,
we're second topic.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, where you.
Speaker 8 (10:06):
Know, you only have so much capacity and you can
only bring up incremental founderies so quickly, and so as
a result, that's really good from a pricing standpoint, particularly
when you're the only game in town, and for certain
aspects Nvidia is still the only game in town too.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Denny Fish Janis Henderson Investors. Great to have you on
all the games we are coming up. Paramount in ram
sub efforts to caught a plan merger between Warner Brothers
Discovery and Netflix.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
The latest in the media merger saga. That's next. There's
a bloom Beg Tech Paramounts guidance.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, it says it plans to nominate directors to Warner
Brothers Discoveries board to vote against the approval of a
merger with Netflix, of course, and the company has filed
a suit to force Warner Brothers to disclose information about
the proposed Netflix Warner Brothers tie ups entertained a reporter
Pholix Jillette joins us on what is an ever more
hostile potential takeover?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So suing for more information? What do they want to
really demonstrate to invest us here?
Speaker 9 (11:10):
I mean, at this point, you know, they're choosing to
raise the hostility versus raising their bit Yes, and I
think you know they've been campaigning shareholders join our tender offer.
You know, they've said for weeks now our offer was
better than the Netflix offer, accusing you know, the Warner
Brothers board of not being transparent during the proceedings. And
now they're making this move to essentially say, you know,
(11:33):
you have to provide the information to shareholders so they
can judge which is a better offer. And to do that,
you know, the big most contentious issue for months now
has been how do you value the cable assets that
Warner Brothers has planned to spin off? Prior to selling
the studios and the streaming business to Netflix.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
The Netflix offered twenty seven dollars a share for the
studios and streaming spin off the cable networks paramount thirty
dollars a share all of it, but basically assigning a
value to the networks of zero dollars. This is a saga.
It will play out over time. It's a really difficult
question for you as editor, hear Felix, But like what
happens next? Is there a real chance that Paramount can
(12:15):
force a hostile takeover through this mechanism.
Speaker 10 (12:19):
They're going to try?
Speaker 7 (12:20):
You know?
Speaker 9 (12:20):
I mean I think, like you know, the shareholders at
this point, a lot of them seem to be sitting
on the fence, you know, in terms of who they're
going to support. I think a lot of them are
hoping that Paramount would come in with a higher bid,
go over the thirty dollars to share. That hasn't happened yet,
you know, I think again, you know, David Ellison and
(12:41):
Paramount have been trying to advocate for this notion that
like the Netflix deal isn't even going to happen. They
have too many regulatory issues, you know, putting aside the
fact that if Paramount offer was except that they'd have
their own issues in Europe with the States. So yeah,
I mean, this continues to just get more and more hostile,
(13:01):
and this is you know, the next step is this
lawsuit and a proxy fight over the director's.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Bloomberg's Feenix to that, thank you very much. Another top
story deep seek founder liangwen Feng's hedge fund surge more
than fifty percent last year, making it the second best
performer among China quant funds.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
The strong performance.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Helped boost the cash available for deep seek itself. Let's
get out to Bloomberg Tech executive editor Peter Elstrom. You know, two,
there's the Bloomberg story, right, which is about a quant
funds you know, amazing performance. But in the reporting it's
super clear the read through that people are making is
that that the returns on that the earnings from that
fund's performance can be taken by deep Seak's founder and
(13:43):
used to give deep seek a bigger budget for research
and deploying its models.
Speaker 11 (13:48):
Right right, That's exactly true. Yeah, there, So there's a
finance story here, but there's also a tech story, and
the finance story is very impressive. The hedge fund high Fire,
that was really the place where deep seek was born,
had a great year. Returns were fifty seven percent on
average across their various funds. That is very good for
the founder early on one thing, as you mentioned, it's
(14:08):
good performance compared with the other quant funds out there,
but it also gives him a much bigger checkbook to
be able to go out there and make new investments
now that probably.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Would be in Deep Seek. Deep Seek has.
Speaker 11 (14:19):
Gained a lot of momentum since a year ago when
they had their big breakthrough dropped the bombshell that they
had invented this LLM for a fraction of the cost
of Opening Eyes with very similar performance. So now you
could see the founder invest more money into Deep Seek,
perhaps chase after a little bit of the capital intensive
projects that we've seen in the US in particular, we
(14:40):
haven't seen those kind of investments in China so far,
or he could invest in other kinds of AI initiatives
that may not be directly the same as Deep Seek.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Because the whole claim about Deep Sek has it only
cost them six million dollars, And the theory in this
particular reporting is that maybe they're getting revenues of some
seven hundred million dollars That could go a long way
if you're thinking about the costs of doing the business here.
But talk to us about why they're able to outperform
so much. What is it they're betting on? How these
quant funds managing to be so superior.
Speaker 11 (15:11):
Well, partly with Deep Seek early on. They were able
to do this because there were a lot of constraints
around the AI initiatives in particular, and we've written a
fair bit about High Flyer in the past. They have
these quantitative techniques to be able to outstrip their peers
within the China market. They were the number two fund
as you mentioned. Also, the China market has been on fire.
(15:31):
There have been a lot of investments in other kinds
of AI models. Deep Seak hasn't gone public yet, but
two of the other AI models within the country have
gone public, giving them a lot of momentum here. So
the market's been very strong. They've been able to take
advantage of that. But again, as you say, they now
have one hundred times as much money as they used
to start up Deep Seek in the early days. What
are they going to do with that money? How are
they going to invest it? They're not talking about this
(15:53):
publicly of course at this point, but we would expect
more things to come from High Flyer and Deep Seek
in the future.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I mean, just think many Max went public on Friday.
It was a ut one hundred percent. It's up fifteen
percent again today. Peter Elstrom on all things Asia. We
so appreciate it, thank you. Coming up a bit more
on Asia. Could Chinese evs actually dodge tariffs in the EU.
We're going to discuss the global electric vehicle wars the
Stephanie Valdez Street from Cox of Automotive that's next as.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
A BlueBag tech.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
The European Union is weighing minimum prices for evs exported
to the block from China that actually.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Would replace steep tariffs.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Is it a sign that we've got some easy trade
tensions even as the US presses Europe to.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Take it off line?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
On Beijing here to discuss this is Stephanie Valdez Street,
director of Industry Insights for Cox Automotive. That was sort
of the latest news headline that we get that maybe
BYD will be able to sell into Europe and not
have to have huge tarifts that eats its margin. Are
we going to see them able to tackle the European
market and continue to scale.
Speaker 12 (16:58):
Yeah, you know, we look at the electric vehicle market, right,
China definitely is dominating and you think about their strategy
is to export, Right, They've exported millions of vehicles and
they've had a lot of luck in increasing share and
so the UK, it's basically, you know, it's a compromise, right,
the EU, Europe needs to meet those climate goals, right,
(17:19):
they need to increase their EV adoption. They rely on
China for minerals, right, batteries. So I think it's a
good compromise, and I think China will continue to increase
their share in those markets, not only UK, but some
of the emerging markets as well.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Meanwhile, one of the biggest feedback I often get with
my social is about the lack of BYD or Chinese
offerings here in the United States.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Is that ever going to come.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
To bat or they're just forever going to be shut
out because it's really bets on TESLA and also pushing
away against evs more broadly.
Speaker 12 (17:52):
Yeah, you know, I think if you look at the US,
that's one thing I think both political parties can agree
on is to keep China out. And so I think
that's kind of where we're at now. Out in the future,
you know, maybe we could see something that similar happened
to the Japanese and the Koreans. They come, they build
a partner and they build manufacturing plants. But for now
the near term, we're not going to have those other
than the ones that we already have under Geele, which
(18:14):
is the Vulgo and pole Star. But definitely, I think
consumers are seeing evs when they travel abroad and getting
the experience of writing in a Chinese ozem and discovering
how good quality high tech, and so I think that
it would resonate with US consumers at the right.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
Price, Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Last week at CS Nvidia outlined a full stack hardware
software solution for autonomous driving, and it very quickly raised
questions about Tesla.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
So I asked Jensen Wong about it. Listen to this.
Speaker 13 (18:44):
I think the Tesla stack is the most advanced AV
stack in the world, and I think the Tesla AV
operations is the most advanced in the world, and I'm
I'm fairly certain that they were already using them to
end AI.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
So here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Mercedes will ship a vehicle this quarter capable of point
to point hands free using in video technology. Does Tesla
finally have something real in the market to worry about?
Speaker 7 (19:16):
I think they do.
Speaker 12 (19:17):
You think about some of the even Rivian's another player,
right that they at their aidea they announce their plan.
I think definitely there's a lot of competition, and I
still think, you know, we're making some tremendous progress, but
I think one of the challenges continues to be regulation safety.
But I think in a video announcement with that technology
to really identify those edge cases which will help with
(19:38):
regulations more credibility. So definitely Tesla has some challenges out
there for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
The reason I find it fascinating is that if you
are a Tesla owner, you know, you know all about
full self driving FSD. It's a part of the pitch
from Tesla, But the vast majority of the auto market,
at least in America, maybe they don't think about, Okay,
I'm going to buy a vehicle based on its ability
to do this. Do you think that changes from here
on in?
Speaker 12 (20:03):
I think I think more from consumer, it's more about
the in car experience. So we keep hearing this software
defined vehicle, So I don't think they're going into like
I want this autonomous or full self driving. It's more
about what kind of consumer experience can I have with
technology in the vehicle, So in vehicle experience, So maybe
it's the ability to have some of that ADA as technology,
(20:25):
but I don't think that's the main driver, it's more
about what's that experience going to be and what other
options that vehicle provide for me.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
In many ways, it's about marketing, getting people in the
cars to understand what it feels like, and then sort
of perpetuate that demand for wanting more and more and more.
From your perspective, is the consumer mindset there from a
safety perspective? Is the regulation there from that perspective as well?
Speaker 7 (20:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (20:48):
I think so. I think that's the one thing if
you think about you know, I think when you think
about Robotechi's right, we're starting to see a lot of
that with wai Mo and Zook, some other companies, Tesla
getting consumers into those taxi atonos, So they're getting to
finally experience that. But I still think, you know, it's
been hard to get consumers to trans you know, kind
of consider electric vehicles to get into an autonomous vehicle
(21:11):
is in more so. So, I think there's still a
lot of work to be done in terms of credibility
and safety perceptions for autonomous vehicles from a consumer perspective.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Stephanie, look forward to twenty twenty six for US, What
is it you expect to have in United States? In
particular in electric vehicles and any growth that may or
may not come to your mind.
Speaker 12 (21:33):
Yeah, you know, twenty twenty five it ended exactly where
we thought it would. Our report comes out tomorrow, but
we're going to be about two percent down your year
round up to one point three million vehicles. But going
into twenty twenty six, right.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
We got rid of the characteristic.
Speaker 12 (21:48):
We no longer have the IRA tax intetive, the corporate
average fuel economy standards have been less stringent, the Calvern waiver.
But given all that, we still have twenty plus new
EV's launching in twenty twenty six, so I think we're
still going to see momentum. It's going to be hard,
but I think consumers.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Are going to have more product.
Speaker 12 (22:08):
But I think the one thing which we've talked about
before in the past is the affordability. If you look
at the current product lineupsues that are offered over sixty
percent for over sixty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
So that's definitely about is Treat.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
It's definitely about it is Treated, Director of Industry in
Size Cox Automotive, thank you so much for coming up.
We'll speak with LUTs Capital co founder Peter Herbert about
the firm's latest fund, its biggest fund. Silicon Valley meets DC.
This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. There's
(22:47):
a story we're going to go deeper on later in
the program, the President saying that if credit card companies
don't respect an interest cap with ten percent in the year,
they will be facing uh.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Illegal activity claims.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Basically, these are two of the more tech focus names
Klana a firm, both down on the news. I would
note American Express is also down as an example significantly.
We're going to get to that later in the program.
Back to one of the top stories, we've had confirmation
from Google that it is entered into a multi year
agreement with Apple for Gemini to be the underpinnings of
the next gen AI SERI.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
You see, when the.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
News broke just before the program about ten thirty East
in time, a big jump in alphabet shares that sent
market cap through four trillion.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
They then faded.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And I'd remind you as well that Bloomberg did report
in November that a deal was close for Apple to
pay Google about a billion dollars a year for use
of that very large one point two trillion parameter model,
Carol what else.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Well, let's dig in on Alphabet and it's recent moves,
but also where it stands versus the rest of the market.
Bluembog equity reporter comen Ryanikey has been really digging in
to the idea that maybe we're broadening out.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Maybe MAG seven isn't just a sure far bet. Alphabet
was a sure far bet last year.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Tell us about the discern that was starting to see
among these key megacaps.
Speaker 14 (24:02):
Yeah, I mean what we saw last year is continuing
at least in the first few weeks of this year.
Where the winners and losers are really important. So Alphabet
was a winner last year. It was the biggest outperformer
and one of only two stocks in the MAG seven
group that outperforms the broader market, the other one being
in Nvidia. So it's really established itself as dominant in
the AI trend, and you know, maintaining that momentum going
(24:25):
forward is really important, especially considering that we're starting to
see some of these other names lag a little bit.
You know, they're just slowing down in terms of overall
growth and heading into earning season, some of those things
are expected to continue, right we're just we're hitting the
law of large numbers. Growth is expected to slow, and
so that might translate, you know, into stock games as well.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Been an interesting morning for Alphabet and Apple and the
news flow around the deal to improve Siri, and I
was reflecting on literally just the ticker, right, you know,
Alphabet saw and breaches four trillion dollars market cap then
kind of fade straight away. What did you see in
the markets this morning in terms of how people reacted.
Speaker 14 (25:08):
Yeah, so we saw that big spike for both Google
and Alpha or sorry, Google and Apple shares. It did
push Google over four trillion in market cap. It's also
surpassed Apple recently, so it's the second largest company in
the s and P five hundred million in the market
other than in Nvidia. And it's interesting because you know,
we did see those those gains fade a little bit.
(25:29):
They're up now. I think both stocks are trading in
positive territory. But the overall market, I think we are
still seeing a lot of macro news weigh on this.
It's been a little bit all over the place today.
So big tech is obviously still super important. These stocks
are really important. They're so large they add a lot
and can weigh a lot on the broader index. But
we also are seeing that there is a broadening out.
(25:51):
People are looking at other sectors, and you know, it's
not just big tech that's always driving the gains and
losses in the market.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Bloombe's common. Ryan, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Let's go from the public markets private markets, where interest
in frontier tech is incredibly high. Lux Capital is raised
one point five billion dollars for its ninth fund, the
largest in the venture firms more than twenty year history.
Peter Abair, partner and co founder of Lots Capitals with
us here in San Francisco.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's exciting news, right the ninth fund that the largest ever.
You turned away about a billion dollars of capital. What's
very interesting about it, though, is the consistency. The themes
are the same, the focus is the same. What do
you want to do with this fund?
Speaker 15 (26:32):
So we will be doing more of the same, but
just accelerating that piece. And so we've been investing now
for more than twenty five years in physical, computational life sciences,
but really at the cutting edge and the frontier of
all these different scientific disciplines, and so as we say
science doesn't scale itself, and so that's where we're going
to be put in the thrust of our investment.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Peter, we enjoy having you on the program. The firm you,
Josh Dino when they cut when all of you come on.
But it seems very disciplined, very calm. Check sizes one
hundred thousand. This is exciting though. These are some of
the domains that are moving the fastest, and actually, would
you reflect that this administration has allowed you to do that?
(27:15):
The areas of defense, other areas adjacent to AI is
something that the Trump administration has moved quickly to support.
Speaker 15 (27:22):
So certainly in areas like defense, kind of broadly reindustrialization
a lot of the things that we do. It's certainly
having a moment, and that's really reflected one from the
technological waves that are happening. One of the things that
is top of everyone's mind right now is physical AI.
Right now, there's also the JP Morgan healthcare event happening
(27:44):
in San Francisco. You're seeing huge breakthroughs in medical robotics
and in computational drug discovery. But absolutely, if you look
at the world, it's an uncertain place, and defense technology
has been really soaring as Large Nations state its rearm
and focus under Terrens Peter Andreill.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Of course, one of the key bets you made and.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
We had Parmalucky on the show last week. From ces
of this fund, how much will be to double down
on prior bets or how much will be to take
out totally new bets on new companies coming to your inbox.
Speaker 15 (28:19):
So the spirit of this fund is really thinking about
as a blank slate, starting with the portfolio of probably
forty to fifty core positions. Historically we've had companies that
have gone from one fund to another cross fund investing,
but it's generally not the focus and philosophy of each
new core fund that we.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Raise one hundred thousand dollars to one hundred million, that's
a huge breadth that you're giving yourselves. Where do you
think you will be excited to deploy? Have the foundational
models moved forward? Are we seeing more interesting areas of
more specific niche parts of the building the llms or
is it more about application? Where are you thinking about
(28:57):
getting excited for?
Speaker 15 (29:00):
So our mental model and framework really is what we
describe as moving from two D two dimensional AI to
three D and that's really areas of robotics and automation
and biology, but it's seeing AI for the first time
coming out of the digital world into the physical And
just one example of that is really just the momentous
(29:21):
opportunity here. Approximately ninety percent of us GDP is not
digitally native. It is in the physical world. It's construction,
it's heavy industry, and that's thirty trillion dollars of total
us GDP. So the opportunity really exist for technology investors
focused on software, data other very specific areas that now
(29:44):
have the opportunity basically ten x total addressable market.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Peter, you're co founder of this firm.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Has the composition of the LP's changed from fund one
through to fund nine, and where the interests in you
is coming from?
Speaker 15 (30:00):
Earliest a believer in LUX was a gentleman, Bill Conway,
one of the founders of the Carlisle Law, and so
he was LUX Venture is one. Today we manage seven
billion dollars on behalf of endowments and foundations and state pensions.
So obviously going from an initial individual albeit a quasi institution,
(30:22):
to now serving some of the world's most elite institutions.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I'm really interested in the core competencies you're looking for
later in the program. We have one X, the humanoid
robotics company on right, and they're out with their own
world model. But the problem right now is that in Nvidia,
as was made very plain last week, basically come out
and say we'll do it all for you on the
hardware and software side. If you're a humanoid robots company
(30:46):
or a different physical AI offering, what's left to look
for in that regard.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
Believe in it or not.
Speaker 15 (30:52):
There will not just be one company that rules all others,
and so there are a number of different opportunities. And
even with Nvidia, as prominas they are, there are other
up and comers on the silicon side, certainly on the
software side training there are a number of different companies
that are attacking again physical implementations of AI, from physical
(31:13):
intelligence that's here in San Francisco to Applied Intuition, which
is a lux portfolio company which is really creating an
operating system in mobility. So there is abundant opportunity.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
And is that global Peter in terms of not just
the consumer base, but where these companies are getting birthed.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
How broad do you go?
Speaker 15 (31:32):
Well, one X not an American company. There are many
global competitors in this marketplace, even in AI. Right now,
we're an investor in a company called Sikana Ai based
in Japan. We've made probably about a dozen or so
investments across Europe in the last fund. So technology is global,
it's broadly distributed. San Francisco remains the epicenter, but you
(31:56):
will see it popping up coming out of a lot
of large research institutions across the globe.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Fascinating p DA Bere We thank you, partner co founder
lux Capital. On the latest fun announcement coming up, we
talk about that company one X, the maker of Neo.
It says this new AI model will give its home
robot the ability to learn new tasks from scratch.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I'll talk to the CEO. This has been their tech.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
We've got news for you from the world of robotics.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
One X Technologies, the maker of the humanoid robot Neo,
has an update for its one Ex World model, an
AI video model grounded in physics. According to the company,
the update will make Neo capable of executing on new
AI abilities with a simple text or voice prompt. That's
even if the robot has zero experience of doing the
task before joining us is one X Technology CEO and
(32:54):
CTO Bernt Bernick.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Welcome back to bloombog Tech.
Speaker 10 (32:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (32:58):
I want to keep this really simple to start.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
What is an example of a task that the update
to the model allows for NEO to do that it
couldn't have done for the first time without the update.
Speaker 16 (33:12):
So I mean to me, it's all about like things
just being anything that you don't have in your data set,
but still being able to have a sensible approach.
Speaker 10 (33:23):
So like the first time I really kind of.
Speaker 16 (33:25):
Like saw this and it was a simple question, just
asking the robot, hey, can you can you pick the
post it note down from the board and read it?
But it might never have seen a post and it's like,
of course, we don't have any training data on us
using robots to like pick post it notes off a
board and like look at it and read what's on it.
Speaker 10 (33:42):
But it can actually do it really well, and it's
not aji yet.
Speaker 16 (33:45):
There are examples where it fails, But what it does
is the ability to have this very sensible approach to anything,
which is a cornerstone of learning, because now all you
need is the robots teaching themselves how to do all
these tasks by actually experimenting and doing this in the
real world.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
This model, how good is it? You know?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Last week CS and Video extol the virtues of using
their open models, and inside Neo, the brain of Neo
is an Nvidia inferenced chip, right, so why not just
using Vidia's model too.
Speaker 16 (34:22):
We have a very deep collaboration made in VideA and
we do use a lot of their technology in the stack.
I think to us also, it's very much about the
embodiment and the husband designed really over the last decade
to be as close to a human as possible. Because
if you take all of the knowledge that we have
in the world, like everything you can see on YouTube
(34:42):
or any kind of video content, and you train a
model on this and now you want to pick up
the cup or open the door, if your robot is
actually not similar enough to a human, this doesn't work
anymore because you wouldn't do the task in the same manner.
And this is quite unique to one because I think
there's there's a couple of things that really puts us apart,
and it's that we have robots that are so close
(35:05):
to humans in how they interact with the world, but
also that they're safe so they can actually try to
do something and if they fail, then the world is
still okay. You don't want your like I don't know,
you don't want your door to be scratched because there
was a robot trying to open it. And this puts
us in a category where our approach today it is
probably a bit different, like what the standard is now
(35:26):
and also why we're so we're very excited about these
world models where finally we see robotic scaling following the
same scaling laws as for example, video pre training from
the big video models, like so our video from our competitors,
and go in on.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
The safety a little bit more because you're talking about
how it stops the door getting scratched, but for many
it's about well, when robots start learning to do things themselves,
therein lies the safety issue.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
What god rails do you have in place?
Speaker 16 (35:56):
So we have some exciting work on that that will
come out soon.
Speaker 10 (36:00):
We are doing.
Speaker 16 (36:03):
The proper things on the safety side with respect to
following the standards, helping develop some of the standards, but
also ensuring that we, for example, have externally audited work
of our safety work by an independent by independent third party,
of course, But to me, safety has many layers. You
have what we call like the passive intrinsic safety, where
(36:23):
humans are actually very safe in the sense that we have.
Speaker 10 (36:26):
To actively work to hurt each other.
Speaker 16 (36:29):
We don't hurt each other by accident usually, and this
is something we build into the machine the same kind
of just you have to be soft, compliant, lightweight, low energy,
so you can be safe in among people and in
the environment. And then of course you have the AI alignment,
which is equally important, and how do you ensure that
you can always take the safest leads to risky path
(36:49):
for whatever task you want to achieve. And this is
also something that's incredibly exciting about these world models that
they understand the world so well and also how the
physical world works, that you can not only ask for
how am I going to do this task, but how
am I going to do this task in a manner
that is as safe as possible?
Speaker 10 (37:07):
What are the things that could possibly be wrong go wrong?
And then the model actively.
Speaker 16 (37:11):
Reasons about like, hey, here are the things that I
can visualize going wrong here, So I'm going to take
this path here, which is the safest path.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
The problem being sold for other than ultimately accelerating deployment
of NEO in the real world. Is the burden of
real world data gathering and a lot of focus right
now on simulation and synthetic data. Just talk a little
bit about that. Some of our audiences is our industry,
they're more technical and they'll want to know how you
did it with this particular model.
Speaker 16 (37:38):
Yeah, so I think really, if you boil it down
to the simplest parts, it is if your embodiment, if
your robot is close enough to a human, then all
of these learnings that they have from video they actually
transfer pretty well. And once you can do that, and
your robot can now approach almost any task as long
(37:58):
as you.
Speaker 10 (37:58):
Can ask for it.
Speaker 16 (38:01):
Your intelligence doesn't scale with the amount of data you
can collect with humans anymore.
Speaker 10 (38:07):
It actually scales with the number of robots.
Speaker 16 (38:08):
You've deployed, because now you just need enough robots actually
trying to do all these things, and trying to do
these things are useful, right, so you also produce useful work.
But in the process, the robot learns and it quickly
gets better, and now you just want enough robots across
society and doing enough different tasks so that you get
a very large data coverage and then you're progressing very
(38:29):
well on your scaling laws towards general intelligence. But it's
now independent of actually having to use humans to gather
the data to a.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Tel operations sideration exactly, burn x CEO and c to
one X. Is great to have you back here on
boomby Tech. Thank you very much. Carry plenty of other
news headlines.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, and it's time now for talking tech and first start.
Mon Meta has appointed a formatop advisor to President Trump
to a newly created senior management role. Done Power McCormick
will guide the company's aim structure efforts, including securing future
funding from governments and investors for massive data center projects.
Plus Meta also says it has shut down almost five
hundred and fifty thousand accounts in Australia to comply with
(39:10):
the country's new social media ban for kids Now. The law,
which came into effect last year, mandates that services like
Facebook and Instagram block under sixteen year olds from having
accounts or face fines ab up to thirty three million
dollars and anthropic. While it's making a push into healthcare
with tools that allow patients and doctors to access medical
information on its AI chatbot.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Now.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
The new offering is compliant with.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
US medical privacy regulations, allowing providers and consumers to field
protected health.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
Data ed okay, coming up.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Credit card issuers are on edge as President Trump calls
for a ten percent interest rate cap on credit cards
for one year.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
We had the details. Next, this is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Allmark is partnering with alphabet to offer Ali and hands
show being on Google Gemini's platform part of the retailer's
race to apply the technology across its operations, from apparel
and consumables to entertainment and food products. Customers will be
able to purchase items on Gemini's browser or mobile app
in the coming months.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Carot, let's talk a bit more about the consumer and
tech and payments. For example, because President Trump is pushing
for a one year cap on credit card interest rates
at ten percent, it's a move that could end the
credit card industry and also ripple through major buy now,
pay later providers. Newberg's page Smith, who covers consumer finance,
is right here. Look, is this going to send shock
(40:35):
waves and people towards alternative forms of financing? If, for example,
these credit cards just can't serve the broad consumer that
they used to.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
If ten percent is the cap, that's a really good question.
Speaker 17 (40:45):
I think we are a bit early to exactly see
how consumers are responding to this, because it's still early days.
Just to be clear, President Trump's statement on Friday evening
and then again last night was really just saying that
that credit card companies, essentially issuers and big banks should
be doing this. The legal levers that he can actually
(41:06):
pull to implement such a proposal would are still very unclear.
We haven't seen any sort of formal proposals. So to
sort of say that there would be fintech, you know,
maybe fintech alternatives, sort of folks along the lines of
so Fi or a firm or Klarna actually stepping into
the void is a bit premature. But although shares have
(41:28):
sort of seemed to react and seem to be identifying
some potential opportunities along those.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Lines, Paige, the president's claim is that some credit card
providers are charging twenty eight up to thirty percent, as
he put it, but also that the consumer might not
even realize that they're being charge interest at a rate
of thirty percent. In our reporting and in evidence, do
we know that to be true among some credit card providers.
Speaker 17 (41:53):
I mean, I'll speak for myself. I think it would
be fair to say that it was a good reminder
this morning and over the weekend to be checking interest
rates on credit cards, as every consumer should be. So
I think it is fair that it's not a widely
known fact of exactly how much it costs consumers to
be swiping, tapping using their credit cards across the board.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
You do a great job, but reminding us that this
is still at these stages and enacting any sort of
proposed cap would take, I believe, in act to congress,
but push us forward to what some of the key
executives have said in response to this potential move.
Speaker 17 (42:29):
Most definitely a quote that stood out to me just
before I came on air as I saw that the
Sofi CEO, Anthony Noto. I believe the quote was giddy
up in terms of the opportunities for Sofi. Sofi actually
does offer credit card to its consumers, but it's really
a firm that's kind of best known for student loan
refinancing and also personal loans for consumers. So that's kind
(42:52):
of a flavor of the tones some executives are striking,
while others are maybe kind of hanging back and seeing
substantively what impact this could have or what opportunities it
could present for their businesses.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Bloomberg's page fith thank you very much. That does it
for this edition of Bloomberg Tech carry.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
So much already as we kick off this week, don't
forget to check out our podcasts. You can find out
on the Terminal, sells online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Back in San Francisco and New York. No longer in Vegas.
This is Bloomberg Tech
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