Kashmiri Exodus to Leadership in the Indian Navy Ft. Commander Naveen Pandita | IOD, S03, Ep 4 - In Our Defence

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is India Today.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Podcasts ship I think stub shipship.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
What is with pilots and their obsession with ray bands?
When we fly commercial, there's there's a point when the
pilot comes on and tells the passengers about the height
the plane is.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Flying at it, but passengers gackering. I really haven't.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Been given enough occasions to talk to somebody a Kashmeric
pundit who actually was there when the exodus happened.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
In the early nineties.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
My dad went out around seven thirty pm in the
evening and he gets back at ten thirty. Set back
your bags, each one of you. Just take your essentials
and we're going as kids. That are we going on
a vacation? We adult since part of it. And when
I watched this series on Netflix. Now the protagonist and
this is Jamie Miller and he is a thirteen year
old boy who's been charged with murdered. I was a

(00:53):
two year old boy when I was, you know, detected
with a nephrotic syndrome. After I joined the navy. The
standard procedure is after you join the Navy, you opt
for naval aviage. So on a Saturday night, we will
showing a movie Tom gun. I was so impressed by
Lieutenant Pete Mitchell to the nearestachis Gal got the poster
and stuck it in my cupboard time. I didn't know

(01:13):
that Lieutenant Pete Mitchell was part of the US Navy
and Indian name.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Welcome to season three of Another Defense, the podcast that
takes you inside the world of conflict. I'm your host,
Deve Goswami, and every week I sit down with experts
and retired officers from the Army, Navy and Air Force
to decode all things to do with India security and
explore what it truly means to serve. Get ready for

(01:42):
stories of strategy, sacrifice and strength.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
This is in Our Defense.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Hello and welcome to a new episode of Another Defense,
where I your host, Deave Goswami, bring you people from
the military who've served in the military. Veterans count their
experiences in the forces, their training to be in either
the Indian Navy, the Air Force or the Army. And
today with me is Commander Namin Pandata. He was with

(02:11):
the Indian Navy. He's commanded an air squadron. He's commanded
a ship. He was the second in command of two
warships and he retired in twenty twenty three.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Thank you, commander so much for being on this podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
You know, before we began rolling, you asked that when
you were contacted by one of our producers, you asked
her why me? Well, the simple answer for why me, commander,
is that we just want stories, and we think that
people who've been in the forces, who've served the country,
they have some of the best stories to tell.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
And that's why you. So thank you so much for coming.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
In pleasure all mine, thanks for having me over.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, and what does it feel like to you right now?
Actually with three cameras ponted out at you, a couple
of mics in front of you, what does it feel like?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I think I'm at these im not saying so many
cameras before, but I think I think we've seen enough
of eminition in the life, so it's.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Okay, Right, that's a that's a good answer. You've seen
ammunitions of what a camera is for you, right, right, Commander,
Before we you know, kind of talk about you, I
want to ask you a very controversial question. And this
is a question I had asked Shivaru, my previous guest
on season two. Do naval aviators think and feel that
they're better than Air Force pilots.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I think that's a very tough question for me
to answer. But then you know, if I'm being biased
towards the Navy, I would say, hands down, Enaval pilots
say anyeday better than the Air Force pilots. But then yes,
we train together. And of course the missions undertaken by
both the services Air Force and the Navy are different
and so different challenges. So I would say I would

(03:51):
put them at part. Being the sister service the Air Force,
I would not let them down right.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
But you know, when you get get togethers, whether it's
so sort of an NDI alumni meat or because because
you were up from ri IMC Russia or military college
or alumni meat of of that particular school, and you
come across your from people from the FOS whom whom
you've studied together, do you kind of get into those
banter rivalry ski are the best to may you.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Ultimately are see that. I think that's not limited to
defense in case, if you go you know, if you
have a drink with your peer group, or you know,
you catch up with them on a social occasion, you
will have a banter like you are India Today channel
you will have a banter with an NDE TV, So
I think that's all part of the game. But yes, finally,
you know serve together, in fact trained together for some

(04:42):
time and then you know, trained in the National Defense
Academy together. So I think it's more of the Bonne
Army camaraderie and the old stories, which generally are the
flavor of the evening, rather than you know, fighting out
it with each other that who's better and who's doing better?

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Right.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
I guess that kind of also relates to what you're
doing now. You're a social pilot now. And I've seen
many online forums where pilots from pilots who fly Boeing
versus pilots who fly air but they have this rivalry
so to speak, because I mean, one of the biggest
differentiators in both these the cockpits of both these planes
is that Boeing goes to that joystick approach while while

(05:17):
Airbus goes for the old school yok approach. And I
have I've seen so many different forums online where pilots
battle it out, koh, this is better and that is better.
I'm guessing even that there as well so.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I think I will, you know, put a little correction
to it. The Boeings are the your guys, and the
air bus guys are the joystick guys. Yeah, of course
we do have banters. Wherein are you even flying the
aircraft the machine which is flying. And the real fun
is you know, the Boeing pilots, you know, who actually
fly the aircraft. So that banter goes on every time,

(05:47):
every time we catch up with each.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Other, right right, And you know that's going to happen
in the comments of this episode as well, because like
you corrected me very rightly, so there are going to
be people on the comment section who are going to
be like, hey, this guy doesn't even know what he's
talking about because I made a mistake over there, right, commander,
let's talk about your life. I really haven't been given
enough occasions to talk to somebody a Kashmiri pundit who

(06:11):
actually was there when the exodus happened in the early nineties.
I think I forget how old you were. I think
you were you must have been around in your teens,
so barely in your teens.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I was exactly nine and a half ten ten years
old that.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Time, ten years ten years when your family moved from
Kashmir to Jamu. This was in nineteen ninety if I'm
not wrong, is what you told us. And this was
right at the beginning of the exodus that led to
thousands of Kashmiri pundits then being displaced and being forced
out of the valley. What memories do you have of
this event?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
So while I did brief you earlier that I was
not well for a long time and I was homeschool
so I was finally finding friends in the school. So
from the age of six to ten, I was I
allowed to go to school. So we could see those
tell tale signs wherein you know, the school started getting

(07:04):
shot more often. The frequency of me going to the
school became once a week, and we used to hear gunshots.
We used to you know, have stone pelting quite often.
So and a standing operating procedure for us during that
time was that, you know, you go on to the
last room of the house such off all the lights. Okay,

(07:28):
So that is the kind of you know, things which
you're brewing in Kashmir at that part of time. And
that is when my parents, although we're not privy to
a lot of conversations they had, but this is they
decided that we must leave if we're not safe here anymore.
I have two elder sisters, you know, who were asked
to be extra careful while going to the school, coming

(07:50):
back from school. My mom. I don't know whether you know,
the mungal suth of a Kashmiri woman is the dead
jur which she wears around her ear. So she was
she was a teacher and she stopped wearing it. So
you know, when you correlate all these circumstances, and you know,
then your parents one day, one fine day, they decide

(08:13):
that we must move out of this place. And my
dad went out around seven thirty pm in the evening
and he gets back at ten thirty. Set back your bags,
each one of you. Just take your essentials and the
weare going. So initially we thought as kids, that are
we going on a vacation. But yes, there's the sense
of you know, uncertainty that what's going to happen next?

(08:35):
Did exist, you know, did loom at that point of
time in all our minds. So we picked up our
essentials and you know, a bus was hired by my
father with along with other relatives and friends and by
the midnight we were all, you know, taking one bag
each with our bare essentials and just we moved out
of chrishmid So for me, if you ask me, it

(08:59):
was now less than a Bollywood flick in terms that
you know, you certainly asked to pack your bags. As
a child, all you're expecting to pack your bags for
a vacation, but this wasn't the vacation so similar. In fact,
I was a nine ten year old boy that time.
My sisters were teenagers. They welder to me, they had
a sense. But you know, my parents never wanted to

(09:22):
have that impression formed in our minds at that point
of time, and they never kept us privy to any
of the conversations which were related to the turmoil which
was happening in Kashmi that point of time. So that's
the you know it, Just at midnight we left Kashmir
and at least did we know that we're not coming back

(09:43):
here anymore. So I think that says it all.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
When was it in your life that you finally came
to know about what actually had happened, and not just
to your family but to the community at large. To
do the consmery punted at large of what the situation
in the value was, why they had been forced to
flee and water the homes and that they were never
probably going to go back. At what point in your

(10:08):
life did you actually come face to face with that reality.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
So when we moved to Jammu, weaver fortunate that our
grandfather had a house in Jamo that used to be
a winter home, winter vacation home. So we had a
shelter over a roof over our head, if I say,
if I may say, but then when I saw my friends,
you know, who were staying in tents and people who
are not used to more than twenty nine to thirty
degrees of temperature in Kashmir, cuddainly saw forty two forty

(10:36):
three and living intents, and you know the stories they
narrated to me. And while I visited, they visited them
in their tents. That is the time the reality hit
me that oh, something is a mess, and we've been
actually uprooted from a place where in which you call
heaven on earth and now we don't know what has
hit us because there was no concept of having a
cooler or an air conditioner or a refrigerator in Kashmir,

(10:59):
because so nice we never needed at that time. And suddenly,
you know, you realize that people are looking out for fans,
stable fans, whoever had as much money whatever they could
effort to comfort themselves. This is how, this is what happened.
And that is the time the reality struck that, yes,
there's something which is things which came naturally to us,
as you know, the kinds of eats which were bought

(11:22):
home and the kind of clothes we wore in Kashmir.
Suddenly we saw that, you know, not that we asked
our parents for clothes, but we saw, yes, the frequency
was getting lesser. We were repeating a lot of dresses.
So that is how it sunk in to me. I
you know, I became a teenager in Jummo, whereas my

(11:43):
sister she just passed her twelve, she was eighteen already
and she had to go for higher studies. So my
father struggling with you know, whatever money he had fend
for my sister's education, my education. And I know, it's
very funny thing. Although I have nothing against a can
three with the LA, but I was put into a

(12:05):
canre with LA because the fee was only five rupees.
So I think that is where the bills which they
had to pay for my illness back home in Kashmir.
I think that is the only way I could compensate
that my fees per month was only five rupiece. So
I think these are small telltale signs or you know,
I would say, if you just add up these things

(12:26):
for a thirteen year old boy, I think that is
how I could make out something has happened. And you know,
we're not as comfortable, We're not living the life we
lived in Kashmir. Jummu's a different place, and again, you know,
at the cost of repetition. I think we were lucky
that we still had a roof on our head and
you know, we stayed in concrete house. But the rest

(12:47):
of the Kashmiri's I think they had a horrid time,
especially a businessman. There was no banking system that time.
So whatever money in there, you know, in colloquial words,
when you called the gala, whatever money he had in
his gulla, he took it on. You know, he spent
it in Jummo, whereas you know people who are goverment servants. Yes,
the government did, you know, make a lot of effort

(13:08):
in rehabilitating Kashmiria pundits. They did help out a lot,
but then you know, my parents, my mom and dad
both were goverment servants. They did get their monthly salaries.
But a businessman who had nothing to do in Jummo,
as soon as the money finished, he was left with nothing.
So I think that is when, you know, because my

(13:30):
relatives were also businessmen, so we saw the kind of
you know, living standards they had in Kashmir and now
what they're having here in Jummo. It was completely pulls apart.
You know, it had taken a one aity degree shift.
So that is how when you realize that you know
something is a mess, and then when you hit your
teenage then you also start reading up and then you

(13:52):
know the people talk about it that you know, people
from Jummo, although they did accommodate as well, but then
they also tell tell you that why have you come here?
So I think the reality struck with the live conversations
with people, and you know, the kind of interactions we
had with our rest of the brethrens, Kashmiri Brethrens or

(14:14):
the Jamu people. I think that added up together and
told us that yes, it's not a great condition to
be in and you have changed places. The weather is different,
the geography is different. In fact, I still have some
people I know who don't know the actual difference between
Kashmir and Jamo. They are part of the same Union territory,

(14:39):
but the weather, yes, the geography is completely different. The
language is spoken is different. So these things are alien
to people. You know, people go up to Katra, they
go visit Vashna Devi and come back. And there are
some people who fly directly to Kashmir for you know,
tourism part of it, and they come back. They don't
know that the kind of lives these two regions in

(15:04):
the same unit territory, they lead a different kind of
a life. The temperatures are phenomenally different from each other.
And you know, it's like deadly hitting you in Germo
in terms of temperatures and the kind of clothing which
we wear. So I think these are some of the
things which actually made me understand that, yes, everything is

(15:25):
not hunky dory now, and you know there is a difference.
You have come to a different battlefield.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Now I suddenly feel so feel so privileged. You know,
you're in your story because I'm just like you know,
when you were recounting the story of yours. I kind
of went back to my teenage years, my childhood, and
suddenly I feel like, hey, man, I've had such a
great life then, you know, I mean I used to
be back then complain about as a life, what is this?
So parents are like this, the world is like this.

(15:51):
There are so many restrictions and that, this and that.
But suddenly all of that seems so minuscule when you
when I compare that to what you've just described, and
I'm guessing that is what you feel for the others,
Like you said right now, that you still feel lucky
compared to what others had to go through. Uh Right,
So from there, ri I mc rush Toria Indian Military College,

(16:14):
You've you've had a childhood of hardship, like you said,
and you had briefed me before this recording that you
suffered from some major kidney illness when you were around
six or seven years old. You sort of recovered from
that and then the exit has happened. You moved to Jammu,
uh and then you went to r I m C.
R MC, if I'm not wrong, starts at class eight,
so I'm guessing you must have been.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Around thirteen exactly, yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Exactly thirteen thirteen when you when you went to this
college which sort of acts as the feeder schooler for
for the NDA.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Now, Tamara, I'll be very honest with you.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
You know, I have a sort of uh, I envy
you for being at the r m C, and I
have a point of content or contention. But I didn't
tell you this before. I actually applied for the NDA
after my college, sorry, after my after my class twelve UH,
and I went to YESSB. I had the full five
day thing. I did the first day, I was cleared
to the first day and I did the whole five
day interview course. So I interview uh. And what I

(17:09):
noticed on the final day, the day of the conference,
is that a majority of the candidates selected were either
from senex schools POP or from my IMC. So I'm
like by your like in Utholity training Milgia in lath Mumbai, Kabanda.
I don't have any much knowledge about the life of military.

(17:29):
I'm at a disadvantage, but any I'm just kidding. But
tell us about ri IMC and very crucially, how did
you end up being there because for somebody like me
or so after class twelve, I decided to want to
apply for the NBA. So I already had those you know,
four or five years being class ten, eleventh twelve, seeing
the world, getting a sort of an id. But RIMC

(17:50):
starts at class eight thirteen years old. Like you said,
right at the beginning of your teenage years, did you
decide that you want to go for the school or
was it were your parents who said kinking?

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, how do you end up being there? In what
was life at RMC all about?

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Okay, this this is a very the story. In fact,
I told you I went to a gain there my
feet was only fire rupiece. So we stayed in a
house which was in the outskirts of Jummo. This was
later when my dad finally decided that we should also
construct a house after you know, twenty people staying in
a four bedroom house where all my uncles and everybody
was there. So we shifted there and there was a

(18:26):
school just next door. So when I joined the school,
I when I started my eighth grade and yeah sorry
the sixth grade in Candre with ALM, I realized by
virtue of me, I used to be you know that
topper material. When I was up to fifth grade, in

(18:48):
Krishmia ninety seven ninety eight percent and all that. And
certainly I realized that my profession, you know, my mental
acumen is not being exercised. Maybe you know, I'm not
getting that kind of a competition kind of thing. The
children were nice, you know, and when you know, children
who go to schools and far flung areas will generally

(19:10):
be from around those areas, not as kind of an
exposure I had gotten Kashmir. So I was my mental
faculties was not being sent. I kept cribbing to my
dad that that please change my school. And least did
I know that time he will not change my school
because we were in almost a financial crunch that I'm
you know, fending for three children at that point of time.

(19:33):
So one of my dad's acquaintances he said, there's a
school in Dedun and up up it's a it's a
UPS entrance examination and you know, one seat per state
Upovaha Bejo and uscal lifeset. So now least did I
know that it was a boarding school? You know it

(19:55):
was you know, it was a feeder institution to National
Events Academy and naval A. I had no clue. I
have no what you called. I have no one from
my older generations in the Forge, no exposure to the
Forge at all, and neither does my dad have any
He says, if you want to change your school, this

(20:16):
is what my dad said. If you want to change
your school to the school in Dere, you had to
qualify the exam, and if you qualify the exam, I
sent you to a better school. That is the only
way I can change your school. So this is some
time in November nineteen ninety two when my form was
filled and I was to appear for the exam in

(20:38):
feb ninety three, if I'm not wrong with the dates.
So I did. I did prepare a lot because this
was my only and only chance to change my school.
I wasn't quite happy, not only in turn, because the
facilities also were not all that great in that school.
In fact, some of the classrooms were held even intents.
So that is the state of the school out there.

(21:00):
So I prepared for it. And you know, there's a
funny story here. I did. After writing an exam those days,
you had to appear for the interview immediately, not that
you collect the written exam and then they call you.
The interview was held on a second day on the
you know, along with the written examination. So there was
a panel of five people sitting I don't know who

(21:22):
they were, and they asked me that why do you
want to join the army and not Navy and air force.
You know you have a defense comprisus of three branches.
You can join them. I said, I'm born on Earth
and I think I can serve my country best on land.
I don't know how I got this answer, but I
just blurted out and all of them are looking at me. Yeah,

(21:45):
this thirteen year old boy, he has said something. At
least did I know that? You know that answer will
actually facilitate other than my returns to move into RANC.
So I got selected and went to RC. Now I'm
also the the third child, you know that marka Ladla
and the youngest son. So now mom my mom, did

(22:09):
you know? She asked me do you want to go?
You know, typical that mother and son conversation. I said, Mama,
yemera akila, chance school, change Kernega, So whatever it is,
I will go in and join our list. I had
absolutely no clue what iron she was all about. It's
only you know. When I entered the school. When I

(22:30):
saw the campus and I saw the kind of facilities
which they offer, I was floored and overwhelmed to a
large extent. In the range itself, you know, we were
around twenty six of us who had joined from various
states across the country. Out of them, I think twenty
two or twenty three of us are in the hour

(22:53):
of were in the forces. So in Jamu and Kashmir,
although both the places I was in an English medium school,
but English language was still foreign to me in terms.
I would hear something and if I have to reply
back to somebody, I will first translate it in my

(23:14):
translate in Hindi, then translated in English, and you know,
just put it out to people that this is what
I want to this is how I want to respond
to your questions. And at our IMC the first English
literature book we had was Great Expectations by Charles.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yes CBS right same, that's why yes so.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
And the teacher we had now she explained it beautifully.
At least did she know that people listen to me
converted into HINDI understand it, and you know, then try
and answer the questions. Now a topper, you know who's
been getting ninety seven ninety eight percent all his you
know tenure, what you call all his life till seventh grade,

(24:00):
Suddainly lands up at seventy five percent marks and fifteenth
in the class. So that was a shock to me.
I said, here, what is what does this happen? Now?
This is the Of course, it took me some time
to stabilize in the coming term. Then I started getting better.
That's that's beside the point. But the other things which

(24:20):
I want to bring out here is the kind of facilities.
You know aram she gave us that point of time
when I asked my peer group what is river rafting?
What is parasailing? Nobody had a clue and there there
was no Google Bubba at that time. You know, you
could just punch in and you check the photographs. However,
what is parasailing? What is involved? And what is river rafting?

(24:41):
And sports like boxing? I box five years in RAMC.
So those things. The kind of equipment which we had
for cricket football, and you know we had inter school
competition they were doing as such as known for a
lot of interschool competition. We had done school as our
main rivals. We I went to Snawa Laurence School, Sonawa.

(25:02):
They used to be chair girls, you know, cheering. This
is I'm talking of ninety four ninety five. So getting
an exposure of that kind was a turning point for
my life too. You know, I learned phenomenal amount of
you know, I had got a phenomenal model exposure in RAMC. Now,
the best part about the school is while it is

(25:23):
the curriculum is you know, the it is CBS normal
all books. We also the routine with puts it in.
You know, the routine which we undergo throughout that is
very very similar to National Defense Academy or a ne vacuum.
You get up in the morning five thirty, make your bed,
do your routines, and you know, go up for a

(25:45):
physical training or a drill or something like that. Quickly
come back, shower, breakfast, breakfast for ten minutes. You know,
you hardly had any You're always rushing against time. And
the most important thing which I learned in RMC was
survival skills. This is how you survive. Whether you like
the food you don't like the food, you need to
fill your stomach. You need to be in time, you

(26:08):
need to be in the correct dress. I think those
things that early in life puts you in a place which,
as you mentioned, on a higher pedestal than somebody who
has no exposure. And then the stories we heard about
you know, the school, so Na sure, Major Snatch, the

(26:30):
first parameter of India was an alumni of my school.
We have six chiefs, you know, which school has given
to India today, starting from tim Ggbore general all these people.
So I think the stories we heard, the curriculum we underwent,
so we were I would certainly say that we were
at a higher pedestal, we were more prepared. And then

(26:52):
the best thing about the school was the learning which
I got was if you are appearing for a service
selection board, you better tell them the truth. Yes, because
they're so experienced. They're so experienced they'll catch you lying.
You tell them that you know, your hobby is reading,
and then they'll ask you about okay, which is your
favorite book. Then they'll get into Native cret is, which

(27:14):
other books have you read? He said, whatever you've done,
if you just stick to your basics, you they will
be convinced faster. So I think, by God's grace, this
is how I ended up, you know, navigating through those
five years and then finally landed up at National Defense Academy.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
I completely get your point about being honest at the
SSB because I remember this one question the IO, the
interviewing officer asked me during the interview round not to
say I was lying, but this just tells you the
strategy of the employees.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
So I think you are supposed to fill.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Up PIO if I'm not wrong, personal identification something information
information something, your information something. On day one of your
of your ssbuh and at the interview round he kind of,
you know, looks over it and.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Asks you some questions.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
So he began by asking me, from between your father
and your mother, whom are you closest to? And I
ended up saying my father, honest answer, I think at
that point of time. But then he said, yeah, but
in your PIO form when it comes to emergency contact
your mother.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Why.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
I was stunned. I was like, how do I answer that?
But that kind of gives the thought process. I'm not
saying he was trying to trick me. I'm not saying
that I was lying or he was implying I was lying,
But this is the sort of questions that they ask
you to kind of really get to know you because
they know you're kind of scared, you kind of you know,
no worse, so they.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Want to know you. And I'm guessing that's where it
comes from.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
But yeah, now that you've said you've talked about your
life at RIMC, I can totally understand why on day five,
I think fifty of us were left. After day one,
Day one had around one fifty and then one hundred
were you know, screened dot first day, fifty to fifty
two were left and of those I think around only
around ten or eleven or madd and I think majority
of them were from either RAMC or selling schools, and

(28:57):
I cannot now understand why that happened, Right, Commander, We'll
move to now NDA, the next step of your of
your military training career, and a very interesting time for you.
You joined in January nineteen nineteen nine, just a few
months before the cargo conflict broke out along the loc
with Pakistan. So you know, any day, any episode, I'd

(29:21):
ask any officer about the life in NDIA. That would
make for an interesting story, but yours would make for
a more interesting one because you join in jan six
months later, when I think the next batch is sort
of joining in you and you are like one bat
senior now in the academy, you have this conflict breaking out.
Did you boys at that time, even know what was
happening out there? Because NDA, as far as I can understand,

(29:44):
is also quite insulated, right, they have very strict rules
about what sort of information comes in goes out. Because
they have strict regulations on kind of devices you can
have them pretty sure, you guys also must have cheated
and found a way to have some radio or something
to you know, bark. But anyway, did you know what
was happening on those mountains, on those hills over there?
And did that impact the routine, that mindset, not just

(30:06):
of yours, of your batch mates, of your seniors, of
the juniors who were coming in in any way, even
of the of the of the of the teachers, those starts,
the commandants, the professors, et cetera. Did that in any
way impact life at the NDA in any any any manner.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
So they were I was eighteen that time, you know,
to be to put it in perspective. So the only
time we had an inkling that something was happening when
we were back home for our typical holidays, right, so
the academy routine as such, and when you just go
through the routine, you have no time to breathe. So

(30:45):
if you have no time to breathe, the only thing
you're looking at is you're looking out that you are
outdoor training, that's happening. There was no change in the
outdoor training. Your classes were happening as normal. And then
at that age when you are not trained enough to
fight at the front so effectively the Indian Army or
the air force in the Navy, nobody can pull you

(31:07):
out for them from that cradle and not directly put
you at the front. So as far as training is concerned,
I think nothing changed for us. Yes, we did hear stories,
you know, things would have happening, but otherwise I didn't
see a difference. I can't actually recollect that this happened
because you know, nineteen ninety nine conflict was happening and

(31:30):
a typical indicated all he needs is if if he's
to reach in time, he needs his proper dress. Because
the DRILLU starts, they ended up shouting us at with
the same fervor that they were shouting at us, you know,
or our seniors before the cargo conflict or after the
so nothing changes in the training in the National Defense Academy.

(31:52):
But yes, but yes, I would say that during our
vacations and we had access more access to television radios,
we did you know, have we did hear those stories?
And of course since we have joined the forces, we

(32:12):
are and the training academy, so you know you're blood
also boils with that. For that, yes, I need to
go and find But then yes, at that point of time,
so early in the training, I don't think so it
did make any difference to us at all than what
was actually happening at the front.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Right, So tell us you know more about the training itself,
not just at NDA. You passed out of India. Then
you went to Naval Academy, and briefly also for one
year you were trained at the Ace Academy for flying duties,
the overhaul training, the military training that you've received in
I'm guessing three years of NDA, one year of i NA,

(32:53):
and I'm guessing some months or one year at so
around four I'm guessing five years of initial training because
I also know by the WAYES officers have to train
a lot more even after they joint services and had
to read up a lot more. But the initial four
or five years of training that you've had, the military
training that you've had, how has it shaped you as
a person. Obviously we know that it's helped you become

(33:14):
an officer in the military, but I'm talking more about
how that military training has sort of shaped you as
a person and the sort of strict discipline that they have.
And if you can confirm this one story, So I
think one of my uncles, Yes, one of my uncles
was in the NBA. He's now in the Coast Guard
because he had to be boarded out because of an
accident and he was claramatically unfit to be in other services,

(33:36):
but then he could join the Coast Guard. He told
me this story, so if you can confirm it. I
don't think he lied to me, but still I wanted
to confirm it that you know, in India, you have
the strict rules about when you can write letters back home.
This is back then when you had letter writing, so
when you can write letters back home, and one night
or one day, he kind of breached that time limit
by five ten minutes and next day he was called

(33:56):
out during the daily drill and he was said be
punished and every Sunday apparently the cadets are allowed to
go out to poone. But that Sunday he was said,
you know, you will not go out and instead you
will go running up this mountain near Cuta Costa. The
Mendi has a mountain nearby. And he told me very
laughingly and very fast, said key.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
You know. Also they sent an ambulance behind us, telling
us tension.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
This is this is true in for in fact, what
you what he's mentioned to you is absolutely true. Because
if you're faltering on you know, those timelines or discipline anywhere,
you will get punished. And if I tell you a story,
you will laugh your guts out that why I was punished,
you know. Nd So in the sixth term we have

(34:44):
something known as Ndia Ball. So it is exactly you know,
it's it's like culminating your hard training over three years
and this is the first formal event. You know, you
get to invite your ball partner. So the six termers
go to go to Pe Liberty, f C Road or
MG Road, you know. So this is what exactly happened.
And a month prior to our this, we were sent

(35:07):
out on Liberty every Sunday that please go and manage
your ball partners. Don't show us so your sad faces
on that day, So think it's the same thing. I
also went on a liberty one day and I ended
up going to f C Road. Now, before the f
C Road starts, there's a junction where an archie's gallery
is there. So we were three coach mates. Both of
them had already managed. I was the last one to

(35:28):
manage a ball partner. So typically that boy's mentality, you know,
we're going to ask somebody. So I finally mustered the courage,
and you know, I just went across and I said,
I'm extremely sorry. Would you You know, it's difficult for
me to say, but would you be my ball partner?
There's a ball coming up here? And I think I

(35:50):
was lucky. I was very lucky. She said yes, I yes,
I don't mind. Hi, I'm prey young guy. It was
first who called her, you know, it was her who
called her her name out first, and then I said, okay,
I am Naveen. So I invited her for a cup
of coffee. There was a CCD which had recently opened,
so we had that cold coffee sandwich and finally, you know,

(36:11):
all information was exchange. There were no phones those days,
and only I told her that on this so and
so date, there'll be a bus which will come here
exactly outside on the if, she wrote, and there'll be
other girls, other ladies who will be coming for the
NDA ball. Please do come in and I'll be there
to receive you at the NDA. She said, fine, and

(36:31):
that is our meeting. I'm very happy, you know, enthusiastic
for the eighteen year nineteen twenty year old boy in me.
And I went back home, back to my cohastmach. I've
managed it way. She's very pretty. I managed a ball partner.
She's very pretty. And next day, it was a Monday,
my Corn commander, Major Rato Majorto asked me, yeah, six months,

(36:52):
all of you have ball partners. Yeah, and Naveen you
have one. You were the last one left. I said, yes, sir,
I have one of them, you know, emphatically, emphatically as
if I had won one of war that you know,
I finally managed the ball partner. So finally the day
came in, you know, the India ball was that day.
We were waiting at the bus stand. The as the

(37:13):
ladies get down, we escort them to the venue. So
the one bus was empty, second bus became empty, and
third bus and my ball partner just didn't turn them.
She shook me up and I wasn't unhappy about you
know that my ball partner hasn't turned up. I was
unhappy about that. Now, when my score commander meets me,

(37:33):
what face am I going to show? Because I and
I bragged to my coastmates also that she's she's a
very Priyanka is a very very pretty girl. So I
landed up at the venue, you know, without a ball partner,
and to my as luck would have it, major Artor
met me exactly fifteen minutes into the ball. The ceremony
had started, you know it was the vibe was beautiful,
like that typical India ball. So he has me based

(37:55):
your ball partner. I want to introduce you, introduce her
to me. Sorry, sir, she didn't turn up. I said,
very you know, very unofs alike. Please meet me in
the cotton office tomorrow in drill order. I said fine.
You know, now I was already upset that my ball
partner had turned up. And then I met my scorn

(38:16):
commander and he gave me my ear fool. And finally
one of my cohostmates had he had got three, so
I borrowed one, and you know, I ended up having
a dance. I laughed around next day when I had
to go to the Scorn Commander's office and I was
the credit Sergeant Major of the Gordon an appointment in

(38:38):
the cord and I went in drill order because he'd
called me in drill order. So again he gave me
an air full. You know, this is not expected out
of you. You're an appointment, You're a CSM, You're supposed
to be leading by example. He just couldn't convince a
lady to come be your ball partner. That was not
the end of it, that bashing I took. Fortunately he
did not, you know, he only scolded me that time.

(39:00):
I didn't send me on singers or you know, I
didn't send me for endurance training or something like. The
worst part was yet to come because when I got
out of the Cordron office there were other coursemates of mine,
the complete gang was waiting for me because they wanted
to know what exactly has happened inside and whatever I

(39:21):
would have told them. And for the next fifteen to
twenty days before my passing out, I was harassed by
my coursemates like wow, crazy. So you can get punished
for anything. So I'm thinking this is this is this
is an example which when I narrated the same story
to my wife, she can't believe it. Maybe she'll verifight

(39:41):
with somebody else at a later date. So nda discipline
and things, anything can happen.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
I mean, yeah, I just think about it.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I mean like, for you know, your girl, you've asked
her a date, she doesn't show up, and your biggest
worri is not that she hasn't shown up, but jsut.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Jack gave you true.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
So yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
The larger question though, I mean, this discipline, this training,
what does it do to a person?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
And also are there breaking points? Are there points where
you feel like hardcare bars? And I you know, I
can think of the movie luksh if you've seen.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
It, where of course this is there is this moment
in the movie where Risen, who's playing then credit in
the in the I m A where he basically runs
away from the academy because he just could not take it.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
He could not.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Take the discipline, the strictness, et cetera, et cetera. Did
you did anybody in your course. Did have you heard
of a story among your seniors or juniors who've reached
those those breaking points? What do you do when you
reach those breaking points? And yes, the larger question that
this discipline, this training, what does it do to a
person in their life?

Speaker 2 (40:48):
The first thing, you know, I will not say majority.
I will say a minority of people who joined the
National Defense Academy. Do you know they reached that point
and breaking point? But you know, academies are so beautifully made,
and the counseling which happens at the academy and then
your own coastmates, they help you out so much so

(41:12):
that they try and make your life comfortable. Your seniors
make your life comfortable. So I would say the ratio
would be a miniscule ratio of people who actually take
a step like what Crosian did in Luck. There are
people who bowed out because of medical reasons. Some people
have immense you know, some kind of a stress fracture

(41:34):
which cannot be or they're not able to run. Some
people who cannot pull the beams. You know, they're really
really struggling. Despite the pt who starts the drill, who
starts spending so much time with you. You know, if
you fail something once they are drill, wo starts correcting
you for it, helping you to, you know, achieve those standards.
So that continues. So it's only I would say, zero

(41:59):
point zero one person. And that also the academy routine
is such that and the environment is such they always
pull you along, you know that that camaraderie, you know
the thing you must have heard of. I think it
starts with the pulling your coursemate along. Whatever he is

(42:21):
weak at. He could be weak at acade, mix, he
could be weak at PT, he could be weak at drill.
So the coasemates themselves or the seniors themselves will take
extra classes for him, whatever little time they have with
themselves to help out everyone. It's a dream, the untimedpug
of a National Defense academy. To cross that with your

(42:42):
course is a dream. And everybody helps you to, you know,
follow that path, and you know takes you along as
far as possible. There are a lot of people, there
are some people who have failed, who boarded out of
academy because they could not jump from a ten meter bore.
This those kid, I was scared, Yeah, I was scared
when I when I know I was a first termer.

(43:04):
I climbed the ten meter board and all this file.
I wanted to be, you know, Lieutnant Pete Mitchell, a pilot,
and I didn't know that I was actually scared of height.
In the school I did, the MAXI had climb was
three meters board, and three meters board is hardly anything all.
You know, some people feel scared even there. But then
when my first time climbed the ten meter board and

(43:24):
I looked down, I said, yeah, what is this? Is
this the match box? Am I actually going to fall
into the pool or I'm going to be falling outside
the pool? And there was PTU start and he says,
get it, jumped a high. So now what do I
tell the PTO start Americo to pilot? But I look
in Americo to height and you know, in the academy

(43:45):
the first term was jump in the end, Wow, they're
not the first ones to jump, because now people before
me in the sixth term fifty or four months so on. And
so for the first termer, he sees everybody jumping and
now you're the last one to jump, so you know
you will get motivated. It's going to jump here. Nothing
has happened to any of them, so why will something
happen to me? But then when I walked up, you know,

(44:08):
it's not like you're with your friends and you know
Algule Maya, and you know, you jump off a ten
meter board, it's a proper drill. You need to take
step ahead, then the second step ahead, look up and
just go into the water. Now following the drill at on,
you know, from a ten meter board. People may find
it funny, but it's not funny when you stand there.

(44:31):
And the other thing which happened was sixth terms when
I was a Kredit sergeant major. The tradition of the
scorn was that I was supposed to be jumping the
first in the squad. But I had jumped this ten
meter board, you know, first term, second, so many times
I had spent I did jump that time out of
because I had overcome my fear of heights and I

(44:54):
had done it time and again. Now it wasn't that
difficult for me to jump off a ten meter.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Board, Amanda.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
I will not talk talk about your life in the
Navy or what it's like to be a young officer,
and of course what you've done over the years, but
for a quick break.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Welcome back.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
I'm with Commander and Amin Panditta, and for the first
half of this episode, we've talked about your childhood, uh,
your training in the.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
R m C and the National Defense Academy. UH.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Now I want to talk a bit about your life
in the Navy itself, uh and especially why naval aviation.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
So you said, you know, before the before the break,
you were talking about how at the r m C
interview when you were asked, you had said, in an army,
and you give this quotable quote. I think we should
print it and paste it somewhere that I was born
on Earth, so I think I can serve my country
best on Earth.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Fantastic code by the commander.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Uh So, you did that, But at some stage, at
some point, I'm guessing in an NBA U, I think
may have made a choice for the for the Navy,
and specifically within the Navy, you chose to navally.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
To be part of naval aviation. Why and how did
that happen?

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Okay, Well, after I joined the Navy. The standard procedure is,
after you joined the Navy, you opt for naval aviation. However,
the actual motivation came long time back when I was
in anc So on a Saturday night, we were showing
a movie Top Gun. This is nineteen ninety three. Yeah,

(46:19):
so I was so impressed by Lieutenant Pete Mitchell that time.
So I ended up on a Sunday, I went on Liberty.
The first thing, I rushed to the nearest Archi's gallery,
got the poster and stuck it in my cupboard. So
that is the motivation where it all started from. At
least did I know that, You know, while I wanted

(46:39):
to join the naval aviation, no research down because there
was no Internet that time. I didn't know that Lieutin
Pete Mitchell was part of the US Navy and not
the Indian Navy. And so it is only an NDA
that I realized that after you joined the Navy, because
while you fill up the forms of National Defense Academy

(46:59):
or so supposed to give you a choice of service.
So I had given as Navy, motivated by left and
Pete mission. So after India, after I joined the you
know from Ndia, when I went to tr Krishna, you
have a credits training phase for almost six months. Wherein
that story is for a later date to tell you

(47:21):
that how that training progressed. So I was a mitch
man on Ironis Mumbai, in Mumbai after my carets training phase,
and there's a signal which comes out for volunteering for
aviation for submarines, you know logistics and everything. So you know,
I was waiting, desperately waiting, then when will the time
come and I will join the naval aviation. So one

(47:44):
fine day the signal is something like in the corporate
internal job postings right right, So that signal came in
from aage bracket off so and so anybody who wants
to volunteer for a naval aviation And I got a
hand at it, and I was so happy that finally
the time has come. You know, I now want to
move into aviation. So I did apply for it. And

(48:09):
after medical, pilot attitude tests and everything, so there was
a time when you know, we do our subliftent technical courses,
which is after you become sublet the first rank in
the Navy. There are courses of almost eleven months. That
is the time when the final list came in that
you've been selected for aviation and now you need to

(48:31):
go and do pre flying training. So after pre flying
training is over, then you joined the batch at Alabad
those days Bam Bamorai Air Force Station which is in Priorgarrage. Now,
so this is how I got motivated. The story does

(48:51):
an India. You know, there were two three things which
I wanted to achieve as per the top. First thing was,
you know, buying a bike, So I did. I did
buy a bike. I had an Yamaha and Ticer you know,
so that was the latest model available that time in
the town. So I bought that. But least did I
realize that while Pete Mitchell is going to fight a town,

(49:14):
you know, to San Diego on his bike, I will
have to pack my bike, load it in the railway,
you know, one of the compartments, and then unloaded in
Alabad and you know, then joined the you know, the
report to the air Force station. So that one dream
of buying the bike, Okay, that happened, But how I

(49:36):
reached Mali was a different story. Then they'd also shown
something known as you know, the astrophysicist Kelly Megalis. Now
we didn't have any Kelly Megalis in Alabad during trading.
All we got was Dubeji who used to give us

(49:56):
underboug and bread and the same menu for the next
six months. Third thing was you know, Pete Mitchell singing
in the bar in the evening, you know, and all
we had was Hubba which was on the highway, and
it was so cool those days in Bulli. They were

(50:18):
literally freezing, you know, there was no chilling and vibing,
you know, as the new generation says, we were only freezing.
And you know, somehow managing to eat that food, that
menu other than what doubag you had to offer us
in the morning, that same under burgee and you know
bread and the last thing, of course, the Pete Mitchell

(50:39):
also by the end of the episode, you know, he
made friends with Kelly Megil so called his girlfriend, so
that girlfriend also had to be found. So I did,
I had a childhood sweeter that that is more related
did that that I had achieved even before you know,
joining So this is so, this is how I went
into aviation.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
You've spent a large part of your life in the
Indian Navy in maritime reconnaissance. You know, you told me
that you Among the planes that you've flown are the
Donyer and the Illusion, both of them used largely for
mariwn reconnaissance and also, I'm guessing a bit of anti
submarine warfare if I'm not wrong.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
So Commander, tell us what was your life like in
the Indian Navy? And then I say life like I
don't don't.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
I don't mean like a sort of an overarching summary
of your round. I think twenty years, twenty five year,
twenty one years in Indiandian Navy, during which I think
you've been You've changed places fifteen times. That's quite quite something.
Fifteen transfers in twenty one years. So what was like
a day to day for you? You were part of
the reconnaissance branch of the Indian Navy, So what was

(51:45):
like a day to day for you? And what are
some of your most memorable moments from the Indian Navy.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
So, you know, I was commissioned in the executive branch.
Now aviation forms part of the executive branch, so I
had to say time at sea. I also had to
serve time at the Air Scotland. That is how I
was privileged to you know, In fact, I was given
it was an honor to command a warship also as
well as an air squadn. Now these two places, the

(52:15):
dynamics are completely completely different Like in an aircraft in
today's date, if I go for a mission, I will
go in for four hours eight hours, depending on the
type of aircraft I am going in, so I carry
a crew of five, I carry a crew of eight
depending on my mission and everything. So exactly after those
eight hours or five hours, I'm back online. I will

(52:35):
pick up the phone, switch it on, give a call
to my wife and you know, or my mother, whom
would I want to speak to. But when your board
of ship you're carrying, depending on the size of the ship,
like I commanded a ship which one hundred and ten
men with me and ten officers, so that is one
small ship that is a sixty metership, but the second

(52:55):
in command of the guided missile frigate Gumti, we had
three hundred and fifteen people on board on the ship
and now you're carrying them. It's ship in itself is
a you know, it's a city in itself. You have
the barber shop, you have living spaces, you have you know,
eating eating and dining places, you have recreational facilities. You

(53:20):
you're living off the ship basically. And the deployments are
ranging from anywhere to fifteen days to five days to
three months, you know, depending on what kind of a mission.
Is it a mission based deployment, is it a patrolling
of the gulf where the piracy happens. So depending on
the mission, you are away from the base port when
you reach the baseport, so you're getting in touch with,

(53:40):
you know, your families. I'm just trying to give you
a human angle to all of it. So of course
you'll pick up the phone and you know, you will
speak to your whomever you're near and dear one. Now
the why I said the dynamics are completely different. Although
in both the cases I was responsible for the you know,

(54:00):
safety of the aircraft men, material, whatever existed in this Corden.
Same is the case with ship. But here in this
case I was always on board the ship with them,
whereas in an aircraft I would send a crew which
would take on that particular mission. And what you know,

(54:23):
I remember some of my friends way back in twenty
sixteen on a Sunday, had visited my ship, you know,
as guests. I wanted to show them this is how
a ship looks from inside. They were surprised and then
when they you know, when you board a ship, it
is through a gangway and ship is a very dynamic platform.

(54:43):
It's on water. That means it will roll, it will pitch,
and at high seas and you know in wherein you
have more of rolling, more of pitching. It's not a
normal feeling for a human being. Like I remember my
first six months of training on board ironist Krishna. I

(55:09):
was having nausea for first couple of months, I didn't
want to eat anything. You know, I used to feel hungry,
but I didn't want to eat anything because I had
the fear that I just threw up. The ship will
start rolling and pitching, and you know I will throw up.
But over a period of time, you know, exposure to something,
you get over that sea sickness. Similar is the case

(55:31):
with the air sickness. Now while I was being trained
in HBT thirty two was the aircraft and air forestation
when I did aerobatics for the first time. Similar was
the case the feeling because you're experiencing negative G. You're
experiencing positive G, but your body gets used to it
over a period of time. The other thing, you know,

(55:52):
the major difference between the dynamics of a ship and aircraft.
Now in aircraft to you are looking at split second reactions.
So that means your mental faculties have been working every
second because if you mess up something, it will cost you.

(56:14):
Let alone the aircraft will cost you the lives you
know who are with you and your own life. Whereas
in the ship we have ship handling. But when you
go to go to high seas in bad weathers, you
know you have storms, you have to you know there's
a science behind it. You don't enter a storm. You
know you'll have to try. You're trying to, you know,

(56:36):
navigate through waters which which will not be affected by
the storm. But the kind of stress and strain which
happens on a ship at sea is you know, it's
like imagine in a galley. Galley is a place where
the food is cooked. So the dollar is kept on
one style, and you know rice is kept on one store.

(56:59):
The ship all so much at times, and you know,
when the seas are bad you will get a kitchen
automatic because it will mix yesh, it happens your your
or cabins, you know where the officers stay or the men.
We use ropes. It's called securing. We use ropes to
secure our everything works on computers nowadays we also have

(57:22):
to work on computer in addition to a mouse, in
addition to a desktop CPU. There are ropes. There are
welcrows which are holding them back. So this again is
a different story. So it is for a normal human being.
If you ask me, I have, you know, moved from
ship to aircraft to aircraft ship because you know, you

(57:43):
have to do your mandatory seat and yours at every rank.
So I have seen this. I have seen that as well.
This may not you know, this securing thing may not
happen in the aircraft per se. So if I leave,
this is the professional aspect. You know, you mentioned that
I have, you know, got transferred fifteen in fifteen times

(58:06):
out of my twenty one years. So my AC which
costed me the air conditioners split AC I bought in
two thousand and thirteen, the AC which costed me thirty
thousand and twenty thirteen is worth one point three lags
right now because the times it has been removed, the
times it has been fitted back, the conduits, the pipes.

(58:28):
So you know, if for an economist, if you ask him,
or you know, for a CAA, it's a depreciating essay, yes,
but no no, if not for me, it's only growing
is the amount of money I have spent my I've
stopped using an acuagard now because how many times will
I remove and you know, fix the same acoaguard. And
if somebody asked me, do you still do you unpack
or do you pack? You still unpacked things. Now I've

(58:50):
gotten used to it. Every time I go to a
new station, I have to make my life comfortable. I
will unpack everything, I will pack Everything's become a drill.
I was standing operating procedure. There are a checklist in place.
I know exactly. My phone has thirty one numbers of
people electricians you know, and people fitting AC's AC Bangalore

(59:12):
Valla a mumbaiwallah. We know my half of my contact
list is filled with electrician numbers and you know plumbers
numbers because I have shifted houses every year. So I
think that's transwering your question how exactly happens?

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Right?

Speaker 3 (59:34):
You know, it's a great story, actually, and I was
so caught up in in in listening to you and
your stories that for a brief moment when you said acy,
by the way, you know, I thought you were talking
about some naval term and a lesson. He's actually talking
about an ACU to ask you about Dornier and Illusion.
You've flown the Donor two to eight and you've flown

(59:55):
the Ellution thirty eight. Uh. I can see a badge
on your on your on a label pin right now
on you on your suit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I can't make it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
I think it's an right right, So for our listeners
who cannot see the video, he's actually wearing a golden
collar pin that has the Donor on it. So I
wanted to ask you, uh No, I know like our
pilot's very very attached to the aircraft that they fly,
and I wanted to also wanted to ask you of

(01:00:24):
how nostalgic are you about the Illusion? The reason I
asked that is because the Illusion was actually retired by
the Navy in October twenty three, which is just a
couple of months to three months before you retired from.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
The service yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
So how nostalgic you may have been in that month.
I mean, I'm not sure if you are flying towards
the fag end of your off your service, but you
know you're bringing back memories carry out Mint and between
the two, which one are you more fond of?

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Okay, if you ask any pilot The first thing is
the design philosophy of an aircraft. Donnia was actually manufactured
in Germany initially. Now it is of course produced by
HL here and Illusion thirty eight, as everybody knows, is
the rush US. So completely different machineries. And if you

(01:01:13):
compare the sizes, of course, the Donair only has two engines,
then it's six four hundred CAG six point four tons,
and Illusion thirty eight is a sixty six ton four
engined reconnaissance aircraft. Now, if you ask me most challenging,
you know, the biggest challenge I had was was with

(01:01:34):
the Aisle thirty eight. It wasn't easy to tame this aircraft.
And I've had some memorable incidents with the Illusion thirty
eight as well. So the first time when I actually
in an Aisle thirty eight, not many people will know.
You don't have to climb the cockpit from the side.
You have to climb the cockpit from the belly, okay.

(01:01:57):
And first time when I climbed up and I saw
the cockpit layout inside, there are circuit breakers everywhere. It's
a dark military green cockpit, and you know those seats
have parachutes on under it, So it was a different feeling.

(01:02:17):
I said, how am I going to team this aircraft?
And it took me time because there are procedures, there
are proper type procedures you have to, you know, use
for starting the aircraft. There's a procedure you have to
start engine number two, one, three, four in a sequence,
and every time you have to run the engines for
some time before you actually going for your missions. There's

(01:02:39):
one of the missions I remember Vivid labors, you had
to switch off one engine midair. So now you come
back and land the three injuries. So weather was okay,
I would say, I would not say okay. It was
marginal in term. Shotamouta clouds and everything and go was
very unpredictable. And this is sometimes in April May when
the pre amounts chargers yet to come. So I went

(01:03:03):
with one of my co pilots. We did that mission,
and so one of the engines and now we are
coming back for ladding another eight C is reporting rains
call approaching. So now we can see the runway. It's okay,
And as we come on the short finals, as soon
as we touch down, the rain is just passing the

(01:03:23):
aircraft and the runway, and for exactly I would say
five to seven seconds, there is zero visibility. I have
one engine shut down. I'm you know, operating on three engines.
The controllability, of course, because you knew when you have
when it's a big aircraft, a momentum of the aircraft
with one engine, you know, asymmetric thrust, more thrust from

(01:03:44):
this side and less. So the controllability is again an issue.
So for the next seven seconds, I wish I knew
the whole hornamentalis. I think I would have rattled out
the wholenament so I couldn't see anything. It was absolutely blank.
But fortunately, you know, the qualified flying instructors in your
training have taught you so well, and it's become it's

(01:04:05):
come into the muscle memory. I just kept the pedals,
you know, radder pedals straight and you know, just hoping
like hell that you know, I'm actually not wearing out
of the runway. And then finally, of course the range
call passed by. I had a clear patch and you know,
I could literally feel that you know here Mary overall,
and it's not it's an air conditioning environment, it's not

(01:04:28):
that you know, because that those seven seconds of you
know whether you're going to be alive at the end
of it, where will the aircraft bear? Am I holding
the RADI pericorty because there's no visual reference or indication
that I'm moving straight. So these are the two memorable
when I thought, I'll.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Just make it a point to tell you, I'm guessing
they did not have CAT three lending system back then.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
No, I respect your fact. Even if you have CAT
tree landing system, the aircraft is supposed to be having
something known as the new aircraft new generation of aircraft AUTO.
And so when you're an auto landing system, you're actually
just monitoring and the aircraft is actually doing But in
this case, I was holding the runner pedal straight so
that I don't wear off the runway. And you know

(01:05:12):
it doesn't create a message.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
I can get that because I mean you'd be feeling Jara.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Oh yes, absolutely. And then you're responsible for yourself. There
are people sitting next to you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
Too, right right, Commander.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
As we bring this episode to a close, I want
to talk briefly about now again life outside the Navy. Uh,
and we'll actually kind of go back to your childhood.
But before we do that, just briefly about the last
two three years you retired in twenty twenty three is
what he told me to December twenty three. So for
the last two three years you've been back to civilian life.

(01:05:49):
I think this is going to be a standard question
for anybody, any officer who's been in the forces. What's
it like to transition out of the service and back
into civilian life.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
I would say, you know, the learning lessons from the Forge,
as I mentioned to you earlier, one thing at a time,
so what I was coming my way honestly telling you,
and I've shifted cockpits. The focus always remains the same.
If I have a simsession tomorrow, if I have a shortie,
my focus will only remain up to that place and

(01:06:20):
then I will take on the next. But yes, otherwise
I do miss my you know, I do miss my uniform.
I'm still in love with whites. Whites is my favorite color.
And yes, I still you know, maybe shed a tear
if I see an emotional scene about fordge on the
movie in a Bollywood click or something like that. But otherwise,
I think twenty one years is a long time and

(01:06:43):
the Forge taught me well adaptability, which it gives me.
I shifted fifteen locations, so I know exactly. Kids, you
can't pick on city's military. I think I'll be able
to navigate it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
You know, I like your point about the whites because
I still have that memory. So SSB board was a
was a navy board in Popes and so I mean,
if you know our listeners and viewers, people who attempted SSB,
they'd know this. The the the assessors don't wear uniforms.
In the first four days, they actually got in civilian

(01:07:16):
clothes so that they can kind of give this informal vibe.
But on the day of the conference, every one of
those officers is wearing their uniforms. And when you walk
into that and when I saw twelve of them sitting
in in that YOU shaped shaped tape on that U
shaped table and in that all white uniform, that was
something else. So this is somebody who could not be
in the forces. If I can feel that, and somebody

(01:07:38):
who's been there, obviously I can understand how you must
have felt.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Uh right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
So we want to go back to now, to your childhood,
with the benefit of your life, now, with the benefit
of hindsight, with the benefit of your twenty one years
of naval experience, and just like you know, adulthood. Normally
during the break that we you were talking about adolescence
the Netflix hit show and how that kind of really

(01:08:07):
made you connect back with your childhood, which was a
bit I could not really understand the batter, but I
told you, like, just hold well, let's talk about this
during the episode for the benefit of our listeners and viewers.
So now that you look back at a childhood, not
just at the accident's not just during that period when
your family had to move from Kashmi to Jaujamu, but

(01:08:28):
also earlier when you were ill, like you said, when
you had to be homeschooled. You've not really had a
conventional childhood. You, like you said, weren't really interacting with
much with outside world. And when you had just begun
interacting is when your kind of world was all uprooted
and then you had to completely switch basis, so to speak.
How is it that adolescence hits you and brings you

(01:08:49):
memories of that? And like I said, now that you
look back, what is it that you would want to
tell a six year old seven year old Namen after
the benefit that you have of living your life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Okay, I'll take on the first question. The adults in
spite of it. When I watched this series on Netflix. Now,
the protagonist in this is Jamie Miller, if I'm not
wrong with the name, and he is a thirteen year
old boy who's been charged with murder. Now that is
not the point here. I was a two year old
boy when I was you know, detected with the nephrotic syndrome.

(01:09:23):
So things like when you have something you know out
of the box, or I will not say out of
the box, I said, I say, if one of your
family members has a special condition, how it affects him
and how does it affect your whole family? Now in
Netflix series, if you notice that there's an episode on

(01:09:47):
what the parents went through, and one episode what his
elder sister went through, and in one episode what the
boy himself goes through. So if I break down my
you know life from two years to exactly eight years
of age, more so between two to six. Now, as
a child, what do you what do you look forward to?

(01:10:09):
You look forward to playing? I wasn't playing. I was
at home. People eat candies, you know, the children like
to ice creams, chocolates. That was not part of my
diet ever. And you know, people you know, children got
bruises by playing you know, cricket or you know whatever,

(01:10:30):
they played in parks or something like that. But I
only had bruises. I had seen marks all over my
arms because so many blood tests were done on me. Yeah,
you know, children, how do you entertain them in today's date?
Of course, leave today's world, because you hand over a
gudget and you know the child is happy. In those days,
they used to play in parks, they used to visit circuses,

(01:10:53):
they used to go to movies. That was not the
case for me. I only engaged in medical too. I
have visited all the hospitals in Jammu and Kashmir, and
I've been to Delhi Aims twice. I've undergone to biopsies
of my kidney to check whether I'm hitting normalcy or not.
I had a failed biopsy and you know there is

(01:11:15):
a so the kind of trauma which I must have
undergone that helped. Also helped me because my food wasn't
a normal food. I was given boiled food without salt.
Even salt wasn't allowed to me. Sweet things these are
out of uh, they were out of celabus for me.
So I think that disciplined me a lot while I
was a child, you know, I would know what my

(01:11:36):
parents tell me is. I never fought for it because
I think in mind of my minds, I realized that, yeah,
there's something you know, which is not right with me.
I think that is why my parents are you know,
stopping me from eating all this and they're not bringing it.
In fact, my sisters never ate anything which could you know,

(01:11:56):
tempt me at home the home environment. In fact, the
biggest thing which hit me was my self. Confidence was
absolutely shattered. I never like to look myself in the
mirror because nephrotic syndrome causes something known as your body bloats,
your limbs, your face and you know, your eyes. You actually,

(01:12:19):
you know, bloated a child who may weigh only twenty
one to twenty three cag's, but you're actually appearing to
be a fifty kg. Maybe that is the kind of
bloating which happens. Now, this is if I take you know,
I'm just breaking it down. This is my condition. My sisters.
While I was engaging in religious and medical tourism, my
parents had to be along. They can't carry you know

(01:12:42):
that sisters cannot be in the two so they were
left sometimes with friends, sometimes with relators, and at that
point of time when they needed the parental guidance maximum,
So they've lost out on, you know that, and the
kind of time which my parents should have spent with them,

(01:13:02):
playing with them, you know, or you know, studying or
entertaining anything of that. So that didn't happen at all.
So they had a troubled childhood, not because they were unwell,
because they were younger sibling was unwell. Now, if I
move on to my parents, my parents, you know, if
you just google in nineteen eighty three, what could be

(01:13:26):
the pay of My mother was a teacher. My father
was so effectively when I'm totaled that I asked my
mom and dad, what was your salary? And now when
I look at it, it didn't cross one thousand rupees
in nineteen eighty three eighty four. Now, the kind of
taxi bills they had to pay those days, the medical
you know, supplies which used to count. My house looked

(01:13:47):
like a mini hospital. It's just that my mom and
dad never wore lab coats. I'm honestly telling you, And
this memory so etched in my brain, I till date
remember what medicines I use to eat. I used to
eat a stack of pills, twelve to fourteen pills a day.
I used to be on diuretics. You know, the diretics

(01:14:08):
used to make you go to a washroom quite often,
and that is the only time when you consume these medicines,
and by mistake, if you have consumed the wrong pill.
You know, if you google, if you have excess of diuretics,
what can happen to a human being? So that is
how my childhood has been. And I think I'm thankful

(01:14:28):
to my parents and my sisters.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
That whatever I am in today, had they support, their
love and affection, had if that had not, you know,
been there, I don't think so. You would have been
speaking to Commander Naveen Pandetta, a veteran now you know,
who's had twenty one years in the service, so a
different ballgame. You asked me something else and I completely

(01:14:54):
forgot about it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
I asked you that, with the benefit of your cutteroon
in the Navy, with the benefit of you know, leading
your life, what is it one thing you would want
to tell your yourself back then eight nine years old, Naveen,
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
On a serious note, I would say I will tell
that boy that you know, you joined the forces all
over again, and you know it's an amazing time. You know,
I've had the best time in the forces, and that
that adrenalininal rush which you get in the forces, I
don't think so, No, I'm not aware. I'm because I
not explored other possibilities. But I think the rush I

(01:15:32):
got throughout my twenty one years of service, I would
want it all over again. And on a lighter note,
I would advise him that, please this time, when you
see Lieutenant Pete Mitchell going to San Diego on a bike,
please do some research. It is not San Diego you're going.
You're going to Bumroli and you will have to put

(01:15:52):
your bike.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
In the.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Train baggage. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
Actually I could actually send that passion in during our
entire talk right now. So I had great, great fun, Commander.
Just a couple of lasts, very quick points as we
end this episode. Two three questions actually one ship.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
I think amazing. The food is good because you heard
of that quote now army marches on its stuff. Yes, yes,
of course, so it is whether you know any galley
the food is out of the naval food as such

(01:16:33):
as wonderful, the all kinds of cuisines you'll get to eat,
and the best of the food you can get. And
if some people feel so hungry on the ship, they
eat twice. So that is the story. Until you know,
when the ship is rolling and pitching heavily, that is
the time, and you generally stick to kit the he
and all that, so that that other way the food
is great.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Right. One more, what is with pilots and their obsession
with ray bands? Is there some practical purpose?

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
Is that pair of sunglasses actually better than everything else
in the world or is it just again going back
to top gun.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
See, I would say that, you know, I picked up
my first set of way fairers. No, not the way Fairers,
the aviators, because left Michel wore that androp. But otherwise,
you know, we did have a chat among the pilots
at time, and we found out that ray bands, when
it came to the market, it was the only reliable

(01:17:31):
brand which could save you from any man your ten
thousand feet or thirty thousand feet up about the UV race.
They really effect you. I don't know, you will not
notice it. I will show you to you now I
have more wrinkles on my right hand side than my
left side. Actually, because this has been exposed more to
UV race, the aging is happening more on my right
side than my left side. Wow. So the ray bands

(01:17:53):
in those days used to be the most authentic or
reliable source of of course, that doesn't mean that I
wear a ray band in the party late at night,
but genterally that that is why the aviators do wear
the sunglasses.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
And one final question, and this is for the commercial
pilot in you and not the naval pilot. When we
fly commercial, there's there's a point when the pilot comes
on and tells the passengers about the height the plane
is flying at. At times the pilot will talk about
the speed the plan plane is flying at, the kind
of whether I can understand, but passengers cockering.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Okay, So you will be surprised that a lot of
people like to be involved in whatever they do. And
I don't know whether you've flown overseas in the Emirates.
So when you see there's a moving map display, yes, yes,

(01:18:54):
so that keeps you involved some people that some people
really don't want to know that if I have taken
off at seven thirty in the evening. I am actually
going to land in if I've taken off from Deli
at seven thirty, I'm actually going to land at ten o'clock.
And some people are like that, and some people like
to get involved. And this We've spoken to a lot
of people, and there are more people saying yes to

(01:19:15):
it okay than no. And then any information is always
a good information, but then it is generally trying to
keep the whole environment alive to the situation that you know,
we are flying at thirty five thousand feet. Don't ask
me to open the door.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Now, right, Commander.

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):
I think we end it there. An awesome chat, fun chat,
and I had lots of fun. I loved your enthusiasm.
I loved your passion and what you said about that
and rush that you get from being in the service,
from being in the forces. I could sense that when
you were talking.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
So thank you so much. I hope you had a
great time.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
I think this was your first podcast experience, the second
the second one, so I hope you had a great
time with us, and thank you once again for your
inspiring story.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
I think I had a great time having a chat
with you. I felt at home, and you know, all
your boys and girls. They made me feel at home
before even you came in. I think I had a
great time. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Thank you, Amaltha. That's it for this week's defense. Does
for more tune in next week. Till then, stay safe
and do not cross any boundaries with their passport.

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Kashmiri Exodus to Leadership in the Indian Navy Ft. Commander Naveen Pandita | IOD, S03, Ep 4

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Kashmiri Exodus to Leadership in the Indian Navy Ft. Commander Naveen Pandita | IOD, S03, Ep 4