August 19, 2024 • 48 mins
Coaches Stephanie Howe, PhD and Ryne Anderson discuss what athletes should and should not be doing in the several days leading up to UTMB.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Trail and ultra runners.
What is going on?
Welcome to another episode ofthe coop cast.
As always, I am your humblehost, coach jason coop, and this
episode of the podcast is aimedat the thousands of runners
that will be descending upon theChamonix Valley over the next
several days in order toparticipate in the UTMB races,
(00:29):
but this podcast can also serveas a blueprint for any athlete
that is going over to Europe, orany European athlete that is
coming over to North America, orany athlete that is traveling
an extensive amount to a race.
We wanted to make sure thatathletes have the right
information at the tips of theirfingers and in their earbuds,
so I brought on to the podcasttoday two of our crack coaches
(00:52):
and Stephanie Howe, who happensto live in the Chamonix Valley,
as well as Ryan Anderson, whowill be going over there with me
with our contingent of coaches,to go out and help our athletes
in the race.
And throughout this podcast wego through several aspects of
how we are advising our ownathletes and how to manage the
travel and the thingslogistically related to getting
(01:15):
over there and having a goodrace how to manage jet lag,
sleep, what to prioritize whenyou actually get on the ground
and all of those aspects thatI'm sure many of you are working
through right now.
This is a really magical week.
I hope to see many of youlisteners out there on the
trails and in Chamonix itself.
(01:36):
So, with that as a backdrop, Iam getting right out of the way.
Here's my conversation with CTScoaches Stephanie Howe and Ryan
Anderson way.
Here's my conversation with CTScoaches Stephanie Howe and Ryan
Anderson all about how tomanage the travel process as you
get out to the Chamonix Valley.
Okay, we'll start out withidiots running around the
(01:56):
mountain.
Thanks you guys for joining onthe podcast.
Today we're going to talk aboutall things training and
preparation for Chamonix.
I wanted to put preparation inthere because the training is
going to be baked.
This is going to come out about10 days before all of the UTMB
races take place, which isprecisely the amount of time
that is left to, where you can'tmake a difference from a
(02:19):
fitness standpoint.
But you can sure screw it up.
But before we get into all that, my point with this is to first
and foremost kind of be a guidefor mainly the North American
athletes that are going overthere.
There are obviously going to besome European athletes, or
people from the UK and maybepeople from Asia and Oceania,
are traveling over there and Ithink some of the things that
(02:39):
we're going to discuss are goingto cross over.
But I wanted this to be alittle bit of a guide for those
people that are traveling overthere and participating in the
races.
It's a once in a lifetime typeof deal.
It's hard to acquire the numberof stones and get through the
lottery process, and the purposeof this podcast is, to my
earlier point, to make sure thatpeople don't screw it up in the
(03:02):
last 10 days.
But since we're coaches, we'regoing to talk a little bit more
or we're going to start out withjust some of the training
considerations going into it.
So, for the people that arepreparing to run UTMB 2025,
people are starting to look atthat right now.
I've had a number of athleteinquiries come in the door
recently that have referencedone of the races coming up in
(03:22):
2025 or 2026 as one of theirgoals.
One of the races coming up in2025 or 2026 is one of their
goals.
So if you are in that camp,listen to these training
considerations as well.
So we have two people on thepodcast today Stephanie Howe and
Ryan Anderson.
I thought that they wereexcellent resources, not only
having been over to the racesfor a few years now, but now
actually Steph lives over in theValley.
(03:45):
So, steph, why don't we kick itoff with you from a training
perspective?
You went through this move,where you lived in the Bay Area,
you moved over to France, youknow, kind of put down your
roots there.
I think there's probably nobodybetter equipped to talk about
what some of just the day-to-daytraining considerations not
only for training out there butalso training for these
(04:06):
particular races areparticularly for people that are
coming over there from NorthAmerica.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, the specificity of the trails over here is very
different than what you canfind in the US, and this is
actually I was counting myseventh UTMB race at the finals,
so I've done various distances,but I have been an American
that's come over to race thisrace several times in the past.
(04:33):
So I think what you have toconsider is the difference in
the trails between North Americaand Europe, and that comes down
to generally the steepness.
So you can live in amountainous place I used to live
in Bend, oregon, and there'splenty of vertical there but the
(04:54):
trails are just a lot different, and so one thing that
surprised me the first time Icame over here was just how
steep some of the trails wereand how rocky some of them were.
They're not super technical,the trails of UTMB but they are
different, and so knowing thatahead of time, like looking at
the course profile or maybelooking at the amount of
elevation gain per mile, issomething to be thinking about
(05:19):
as you're planning your 2025.
Like we said, this year isalready, like you know, a little
bit too late to do manytraining adjustments.
But I was describing the trailsto a friend and I was like
they're just kind of relentless.
There's no flow.
You have to be able to run fasttoo, because there's big flat
sections, but then there's like40% grades that go on for like
(05:43):
45 minutes to an hour.
So it's got a little bit ofeverything.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I'm kind of reminded of one of the fundamental
principles of training thateverybody should have learned
about when they first starttraining or first start coaching
, and that's the principle ofspecificity and that matters a
lot when athletes go out there.
It's hard to do it unless youlive in the area.
You try to recreate everything.
I always get this prototypicalquestion of how do I train for
(06:10):
the mountains when I live in theflats?
Right, I'm training forLeadville, I'm training for UTMB
and I live in Nebraska orFlorida or whatever.
And what they're speaking to isjust that point is I don't have
the specificity.
That's what we would call itfrom a coaching perspective.
But to your point, steph, thespecificity of the trails out
there are kind of incrediblyunique and I was reminded of
(06:35):
that because I had a few of myelite North American-based
athletes kind of go out thererecently and start to put
together some training camps andthe sentiment was all very
similar and they were just tired.
It was just hard to speak toyour point about the trails
being relentless.
You go out on a four or six hourrun and it's a bigger toll,
it's a bigger ask than a four orsix hour run in most of the
areas of North America andtaking some of that into
(06:57):
consideration, I think, is a bigkind of a big part of it, so
much so that a lot of peoplewill notice that their stat
sheets kind of get knocked downa little bit.
So this is of particularimportance for the athletes out
there that train by miles.
We don't do that.
We try to train athletes bytime or we try to define volume
predominantly by time.
But for the athletes that thatthat prototypically define their
(07:21):
volume by miles per week orkilometers per week, most of
them, when they go out there,out to this area, will
immediately notice that theirstat sheet gets knocked down and
they're more tired.
And that holds Stephanie'ssaying yes, because you're like,
yeah, that happens to be still,and I've lived over here for a
long time.
That whole cycle of gettingyour stat sheet knocked down
when you're actually looking atit in training peaks or in
(07:44):
Strava or however you'recapturing your, however you're
capturing your training data, isactually something to be
mindful of because it can get alittle bit depressing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, even living here,sometimes I still have to be
reminded of that because youknow a two hour run, I cover
half the distance now and that'sjust the nature of the terrain.
So I think particularlyimportant going into a big race
to keep that in mind, not toknock your confidence right to
be like, wow, why am I suddenlyrunning so slow?
(08:14):
It's just slower over here andyou're not going to move as fast
, you're not going to go as far,and that's something.
If you know that going in, Ithink it can help take the edge
off.
So you don't like knock yourself-confidence totally before
you go into the race or overdoit, which is something we have
typically seen.
Somebody is like I'm gonna do a10 mile run and they go for a
(08:36):
10 mile run and it takes threehours and then they're fried.
That's like we also see thatdirection too, of like overdoing
it because of using whatthey're used to with distance.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, I always have to.
I always have to adjustathletes functional threshold
pace when they go over there,just to make sense out of
everything, and some of it ismore than others depending upon
where they're coming from.
But even if they're coming fromI'm going to use a really
prototypical place that a lot ofathletes are familiar with Even
if they're coming fromsomewhere like Boulder or
(09:09):
Flagstaff, I'm still adjustingtheir functional threshold pace
north of 10%, depending upon theathlete and exactly where
they're coming from.
And that's not a trivial amount.
That means you're runningaround doing 10 minute miles,
you know one day, and then yougo over there and you're running
11 or 12 minute miles, right,somewhere kind of somewhere in
that neighborhood, and that is.
(09:31):
That's a material amount tokind of take into to, to take in
consideration.
Now, I'm not suggesting thatevery athlete make that
adjustment, but certainlydepending upon where you're
coming from, even if you'recoming from a more, even if
you're coming from a mountainousarea and you mean Colorado
Springs here I have all thevertical in the world I would
still do that for myself If Iwent over there and I spent a
(09:51):
significant amount of training.
I would adjust everything, or atleast adjust my mileage
expectations and or my paceexpectations by maybe 20%,
probably 50, probably probablycloser to 15%.
So, athletes, keep that in mindwhen you go over there and even
if you do a recon, like a quicklittle, like if you've never
been there before, you do aquick little recon of the trails
or whatever you go and you mapit out on gaia or whatever it is
(10:13):
, make sure that the time isgoing to be reasonable and in
line with what you want to dofrom a training perspective.
Because we've all seen thiswhere athletes want to go out
there, they want to to reconpart of the course and that
recon ends up being a four orfive-hour run when all they
wanted it to be was a couplehours.
Ryan had an athlete who he wentover and continued ahead, who
did something similar to that,not to the exact same tone, but
(10:35):
we'll turn it over to you.
Ryan, do you want to addanything to what Steph and I
were talking about in terms ofjust the general training
considerations for athletes thatare going over there?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah.
So on that note of athlete getsover there early and their
stats change quite a bit.
Here's some real numbers.
So this athlete, before theywent to Chamonix to get in some
training time on the course,they still live in a very steep
mountainous area.
Two weeks before they go 79miles, 14k, 94 miles, 16k.
(11:05):
They get over to Chamonix 56miles, 10k of MERT and then a 70
mile week at 20k.
That was a lot of numbers.
So basically, putting actualdata to that of their climbing
went up by 50 percent and theirmileage went down by 20 to 30
percent.
So it's way easier said thandone.
But don't get attached to yournumbers.
(11:27):
And on that confidence pieceyou will find athletes who have
been out there for many weeks inChamonix over a month, and they
have been getting time on thecourse with all that steep
terrain and that climbing.
And you may see their numberson Strava and like, oh my gosh,
I'm not doing enough.
Turn off your Strava, delete itoff your phone, because if you
(11:49):
look at that your confidence isonly going to tank and like I
have to do more.
That's getting close to therace.
How can I fit in more?
So and this confidencecomparison piece applies to any
race.
Avoid, avoid the trap ofcomparison as you get closer,
because we always want tocompare to people that are doing
more than us.
Right, we don't want toconsider how their life is way
(12:13):
different than us being able toget out there much sooner, being
a full-time professionalathlete or whatever it is.
So avoid the comparison trap soit does not knock your
confidence the fresh.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I'm always reminded of the freshness, the freshness
and fatigue curve that'sautomatically generated in
strava and training peaks has anequivalent of that, or I guess
they have kind of the originalversion of that in their CTL and
their ATL.
There's no way that thoseequations can account for the
surface of the train unlessyou're manually adjusting the
(12:45):
threshold values, which is thekind of the relative calibration
point, and that's really hardto do, even for us.
We do it for a living and a lotof athletes they get it kind of
engrossed to your point, ryan,in the stats.
They'll look over at that andimmediately, because of the math
that you just went throughlower mileage, more vertical,
slower miles their, theirfitness will take a little bit
(13:08):
of a hit and they'll be likewait a minute, it's just, you
know, I feel fit, I'm thefittest I've ever been.
Why is my fitness line goingdown?
Nothing's happening from aphysiological perspective.
It's just math that you'reslowing down and and that curve
is just a reflection of that, ofthe, of that very simple math.
So, needless to say, I thinkthe thing, the summary of it, is
(13:29):
if you're going over there andyou're doing your last few runs
and or you're thinking aboutdoing this 2025 or 2026 and you
go and you spend an appreciableamount of training over there or
you're trying to get ready forit.
Start to psychologize what thedifference in terrain is
actually going to mean to you.
Don't let it get you down.
Everybody has to deal with it.
We just ended a really longstint of the North American men
(13:54):
not being able to win that race,and a big part of that is this
terrain transition.
It's not the only part,obviously, but a big part of
that is the train transitionthat we just don't have but that
we just don't have availablehere.
So that's, I think that'sreally emblematic of what
everybody experiences.
Okay, so let's move to here andnow.
By the time this comes out,race will be 10 days away.
There's going to be a lot ofpeople participating in it about
(14:15):
10,000 total between all theraces there.
All of a similar setup forathletes that are traveling
there.
They're traveling there theweek of 10 days before, 14 days
before.
Most people will fly into Geneva.
Some people will fly into Milan.
There'll be some other smallerairports, but Geneva airport
tends to be the hub and for theNorth American athletes, they're
(14:38):
going through a prettysignificant time zone shift
between as they fly over theAtlantic ocean, and they're
giving themselves just barelyenough time to get over that
time zone shift.
But some of the races start inthe evening, so it presents this
kind of weird like conundrum ofhow do I actually start to, how
do I actually start to plan forthis?
(14:59):
So let's kind of bring it froma very practical standpoint.
We all have athletes that arecoming from North America and
other parts of the world overthere in terms of travel.
Brian, we're going to kick itover you first again what are
you advising your athletes on?
What to do and also what toavoid, as they're traveling over
there?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So first, your point of the untraditional start time
CCC, 9 am, utmb, 6 pm.
Don't overcomplicate it and tryto get this perfect shift to
that time.
You never did that for yourtraining.
You went to work, you workedyour third shift, shift,
whatever and you made trainingwork.
You've got less than a week toget over there and get adjusted.
(15:38):
Don't over complicate it andlike, oh, if it's a 6 pm start,
maybe I could time it to where Isleep from 9 am to 4 pm, and
just oh, don't over complicateit.
And the time shifter app is agreat app that can help you
slowly adjust and potentiallyhave a smooth transition.
(15:58):
You put your flights into theapp and it tells you how to
target the time of day in whichyou're exposed to light or not
exposed to light.
And your caffeine timing andit's straightforward, it's on
your phone, it gives you somegood guidance.
Caffeine timing and it'sstraightforward, it's on your
phone, it gives you some goodguidance.
The CDC also has a very helpfulsection on their website on jet
(16:19):
lag that simplifies theinformation.
That's another good resource.
And again, remember, it's notgoing to be perfect, so just
take a deep breath and relaxwhen you're planning your
traveling over there.
It's not going to be perfect.
Much like a C-level athletegoing to altitude You're not
going to get the timing rightand peak and fill your most best
(16:40):
.
Do the best you can, use goodinformation to do the best you
can and be okay with that, andit's not going to be perfect.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Shout out to the Time Shifter app.
I've pretty much I think I'vehad all my athletes use it this
year.
I actually have some athletesthat are coming over for
Leadville, which is two daysfrom when we're recording this
from Europe, and I had them dothe same thing.
You hit the nail on the head,ryan.
It's not perfect, but it cansoften the blow.
You guys have been there withme in the CTS coach chalet.
(17:11):
Usually the third day I sleepfor like 12 hours because I do a
pretty shitty job of managingmy time zone shift, but,
needless to say, I have noaffiliation with that.
I've just found it prettyuseful.
It's not perfect.
The recommendations aresometimes slightly impractical
because they don't know yourlifestyle or anything like that.
But be an adult, you know, beintelligent, follow the the
(17:33):
guidance, follow the advice asmuch as you can and, like I said
, I think the big thing is itcan can kind of soften the blow
there.
So if I'm gonna throw it overto you because you're living
there right now but you stillhave north american athletes
like coming over there andthey're going to probably visit
you in the you know, days beforethe race and they're on one
time zone and you're on theother one.
What are you telling yourathletes to do in route as
(17:53):
they're getting into the valley?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah.
So I have two things to add.
The first is, remember you'recoming over here to do a race
and so sleep is important.
So you want to adjust to thetime zone if you can, but not at
the expense of missing sleep.
So if you're coming over andjust have a few days, I would
say like, yeah, land, and liketake a nap, whereas if you're
(18:16):
here like, let's say, 10 daysbefore, I would say try maybe
that first day to stay up alittle bit later, get a little
more used to the time zone, andthen you know you can kind of
adjust along the way.
But if you're coming over kindof last minute, like let sleep
be the number one priority,because it doesn't matter if
you're adjusted to the time zone, if you haven't slept at all in
(18:37):
48 hours, that's not a goodplace to be going into a long
race.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, and that's the first thing.
That's a good point, becauseTDS, utmb and CCC for it.
Well, utmb and TDS for the backof the half finishers or is
over a day in terms of how longit's taking them to do the race,
and CCC can be upwards of a dayplus 24 hours, plus in terms of
how long some of the back ofthe packers are out there.
(19:02):
So sleep deprivation actuallybecomes a really important
component of things.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
The other piece is a lot ofpeople take melatonin, and that
can be useful, but make sure youtry it before you use it before
a race.
Saying this because I've donethis the wrong way, because some
people are more sensitive thanothers and so if you take a
melatonin you might wake up andbe super groggy.
(19:27):
I don't know what the half-lifeis on it, but you don't want
that going into a race at all,so sometimes it might mean a
half a dose.
Some people feel better withoutit, but you don't want that
going into a race at all, sosometimes it might mean a half a
dose.
Some people feel better withoutit.
But if you are going to use itas part of the way that you get
yourself on this time zone, makesure to try it ahead of time to
make sure that your bodyresponds to it in an appropriate
way.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I'll add one thing to the don't focus on perfection
side of it as well.
That we know from the researchis in.
We have really great researchon sleep deprivation and sleep
restriction Thanks to the,thanks to our almighty military.
They tend to be the pioneers inthis because they want soldiers
up at all day and night doingsoldier types of things.
But you can synopsize from anendurance perspective.
(20:09):
One of the things that we doknow about sleep restriction is
typically one night of sleeprestriction.
So you screw up your sleep onenight, you know.
You go to bed at 2am, you wakeup at 6am, something like that
right, where you take yourprototypical eight hour sleep
cycle and you condense it tojust a few hours.
Performance isn't affectedafter that one night, usually
after two and three nights, ifthat's when you start to see
(20:30):
some sort of performancedeterioration.
So to your point of both of youguys have kind of mentioned
this point either with the nightstarts or just trying to figure
out how to get sleep in thefirst place.
Realize that it doesn't have tobe perfect.
Even if you came over to UTMBand you had crappy sleep for a
few nights, if you get back ontrack, that's probably not going
(20:52):
to affect your performance.
And it's probably going toaffect your performance more if
you're up worrying about it andyou start to take copious
amounts of sleep aids likemelatonin and things like that.
So realize that you don't haveto get it perfect.
You can go through a certainamount of sleep, a small amount
of sleep restriction, and nothave it affect performance too
much, but you certainly don'twant it to compound.
(21:14):
We're going to talk about someCOVID precautions in a little
bit because we'd be remiss toskip over that since there seems
to be another wave breaking outin Europe right now.
But I'm going to go into acouple of other travel things
that I wrote notes down on.
First thing is every year wetend to have this year we're
going to have a north of 40athletes over at UTMB.
(21:35):
I guarantee you at least threeof them and probably five.
We can take a $2 bet on thisrhyme.
When we get over there,probably five and I hate to say
this but I'm just trying to keepit real We'll have their
luggage lost.
This happens every year willhave their luggage lost.
This happens every year.
The Geneva airport, for whateverreason, it's like on and off
(22:03):
shit show.
I remember one year when I wasleaving the Geneva airport not
to make everybody paranoid aboutthis, but their luggage
handlers had gone on strike andall of the luggage that they
basically couldn't process it.
So you could check it in but itwould never make it to your
plane because they had nobody tolike take it from where.
You checked it in and loaded upon the plane and they just
stacked it up in these big likeshipping containers that were on
(22:24):
the airport property justdozens of them.
And so, anyway, people wouldcheck it in and their luggage
would never make it on the plane.
Hopefully that doesn't happento anybody, but it will happen
to some people.
So there's two things about this.
First thing is, if there'sanything absolutely mission
critical your favorite type ofloop, your favorite socks,
(22:47):
whatever it is that isimpossible to recreate carry it
on with you.
Also, realize that Chamonix is,at this time, probably the best
resourced trail running placein the entire planet.
For that week you have everysingle brand, every single
nutrition product, every singleshoe company, every single sock
(23:09):
company, every single companythat makes a pack poles you name
it.
So when your luggage gets lostand I'm sorry for the small
percentage of people whoseluggage will be lost.
You know what you should thinkabout it as a good opportunity
to go and buy more gear andinevitably because of all of our
athletes out there, to myearlier point of we're going to
(23:30):
have a north of 40 there.
I will probably be thatresource.
People will call me in a panic.
I've done this several timesand driven out to places in the
middle of the night to find gearand find nutrition stuff like
that.
It's usually pretty easybecause everything is so
resourced.
You have 10,000 runners and 80or a hundred thousand trail
(23:51):
running fans and things likethat all in the same area.
You have all the brands in thesame area.
You're going to be able to findyour stuff.
I guess is my point.
So don't panic.
If you do end up losing yourluggage, say yippee.
Whip out your credit card, buya bunch of stuff that's
overpriced in the ChamonixValley, you'll get over it.
But carry the stuff that isabsolutely mission critical to
(24:12):
you.
Maybe your shoes, maybesomething that just fits in your
pack in a certain way thatyou've never been able to find
before, your lucky necklace orwhatever it is.
Carry it on with you.
Everything else that may getlost in a certain percentage of
you, this will happen.
You can recreate in theChamonix Valley, so, don't worry
(24:32):
, is the big thing For the RCTSathletes that are going out
there that are listening to this.
You guys all have my number.
You can call me and we'll fixit.
We fixed it every single year.
I can't tell you how manyiterations of this.
It's been batting a thousandpercent.
We've always been able to getnutrition.
We've always been able to getgear you kind of name it at the
last minute.
It is never.
I was going to say rarely, butI can't think of one time where
(24:55):
we've missed the ball on this.
It is.
It has never been a big deal.
We've always been able toreplace stuff.
Either of you had anything toadd to that.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
No, I think if you don't want to buy it, you can
borrow it, because there's10,000 athletes here, and
everyone who lives here.
Even if they're not racing,they have gear because that's
why they live here.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, we figure it out.
That's a good point.
Stuff, I'm all about buying newgear, though I like buying
stuff.
Okay, let's talk about COVIDprecautions.
There's another round going onthere.
I've had athletes that havebeen, that have gotten COVID
since.
They've been there over thelast six weeks or so just
training.
The Olympics just happened.
It affected the US men's trackand field team, kind of sports
up and down the board, andthat's a big deal, right, you go
(25:34):
from a potential gold medal tono medal.
You go from, in a UTMB case,potentially finishing to not
finishing because you get sick.
People spend hundreds of hourstraining and can sometimes, very
unfortunately and verytragically, kind of get knocked
out by an illness.
So I want to kind of hear fromyou guys what you're telling
your athletes to do when theyget here there.
(25:56):
I have heard from the UTMB folks, just to kind of put this in
perspective, that close to ahundred thousand people come
down to the Chamonix Valley forthis race, which is kind of
incredible.
Right, there's 10,000 people inall the races it's somewhere
around that number.
So that means 10 times thenumber of participants are
coming in just to watch, cruise,spectate, observe on and on,
(26:21):
and whether or not that's amarketing number that's slightly
inflated, or a real number.
We'll leave that speculation toother people, but it's a lot of
people in a small area, I guess, is what I'm coming at.
We'd be naive to think thatthere aren't some illnesses that
are going to go around, whetherit's COVID or, you know your
run of the mill, flu and coldtypes of stuff.
So, steph, what are you tellingyour athletes to do as they're,
(26:43):
as they're traveling, kind oflike being cognizant of this and
also, as you as a resident,seeing all of the people come in
and observing what is actuallygoing on with the congestion of
humans that are congregating inthe valley?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, as a resident, it's overwhelming Because, yeah,
just like you said, I wouldbelieve that number 100,000
people descend upon the valley.
So I think, in terms ofprecaution, you just use common
sense.
I mean, there's we can'tprevent all human interaction.
Stay out of big crowds and Irealize that sounds
contradictory because there's somany people coming but you can
(27:19):
stay outside, right.
You don't have to go inside toplaces I personally am not going
.
I'm gonna try my best to stayout of, like any type of indoor
place.
I mean, you have to go to thegrocery store.
You can wear a mask.
That is a thing.
It can be protective.
It's not going to protectagainst everything, but if you
have to go somewhere and you'regoing to be around, a ton of
people who just came from whoknows where, you know that's
(27:41):
something that you might want toweigh that risk and choose to
wear a mask, for those types ofactivities are outdoors.
So just spend your time.
You know, spend your timeoutside and you are here to race
again, not to socialize or to,like you know, go to all the
(28:02):
different events.
So just, you don't have toisolate yourself, but you know,
try to keep yourself on the goodside of safe, like not doing
all the activities, because thatthe number of exposures just
increases your number, thenumber of the risk, I guess, of
contracting something.
So that's what I'm telling myathletes and that's what I'm
doing myself, and you know, it'skind of a roll of the dice.
(28:24):
Sometimes you can do your bestto prepare and take precaution,
but you can't prevent everything.
But you can surely reduce thechances that you're going to
interact with multiple people.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I think you touched on the point of consternation
that a lot of people have isthey want to go out and
socialize and experience thingsand at the same time they're
going there to race and thosetwo things in turn.
Those two things can come intoa con and come into conflict in
a number of different ways, andone of them is just the social
interaction that we're.
You know that we're kind ofdiscussing, and so finding your
(28:59):
own fine line or finding yourown balance point between those
two things, I think is a lot ofpeople are going to make that
personal decision, but thinkthrough the what if?
That's why I always encouragepeople to do we can't mandate
people wear masks in the airportand at the grocery store and
things like that.
Everybody can choose what theywant to do.
But think about the what if.
Think about, hey, listen, whatif this happens, and can I feel
(29:21):
good about the decisions that Imade that potentially led to
that consequence or outcome?
Also, if you're in a groupsetting or a team setting this
is the number of my eliteathletes are you got to think
about people that are not you?
There are other people in thisequation that you're interacting
with.
Perhaps there are otherathletes in the races, perhaps
(29:42):
their teammates of yours,perhaps their colleagues,
perhaps they're participating aswell.
You know, your actions can alsoaffect them, and I think that's
also a kind of a point ofconsideration.
So so for our, for our part,ryan, how many coaches do we
have?
We have one coach that's notcoming at the last minute, but I
forget what the total headcount is.
I think it's 10?
.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
It's eight or nine, eight or nine.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Okay, eight or nine coaches, like I said, north of
40 athletes that we've got there.
For the coaches that arestaying in our two chalets, I've
told them to all take rapidtests kind of throughout the
week, and the reason is becausewe're meeting with a number of
athletes and we've got to gothere, they've got to come to
our place and we can't not.
We have to have that, that,that small amount of social
(30:22):
interaction.
And the bigger point with thatis is also want the athletes to
feel confident that we aretaking precautions so there's
nothing kind of noodling in theback of their head saying ah
well, you know, I got to meetwith Steph or I've got to meet
with Coop, and they've also metwith 10 other people right this
week, and they're also sharing achalet with nine other people
that are coming from all areasof North America.
(30:43):
I want them to have an enhancedlevel of confidence that we're
taking the kind of the correctprecautions here as well.
So anyway, brian, I'll open itup to you Once again.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
You're going over there with us you'll be there
and you've also have athletesgoing over there.
What have you been telling them, and I guess maybe also what
are you going to do personallyto set yourself up in the best
way possible In terms ofavoiding the crowds?
(31:14):
Go to the grocery store in themorning when you get over there.
There's not much going on inthe mornings.
If you wake up early, nearlyall of those restaurants in the
square there have outdoorseating.
Pick one of those.
Eliminate the chance to goinside and just do the things
you're told to do when the flu'sgoing around when you're in
elementary school Wash yourhands, drink water, have your
(31:36):
hand sanitizer, do all thelittle things.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I think that sums it up pretty good.
Okay, so now let's talk aboutwhat to do when people actually
get there.
So we get there.
They've protected themselves.
They're either taking a bus upto Chamonix or they've rented a
car.
Their family, they're hitchinga ride from somebody.
How should athletes think aboutthe order of priority in which
they get things accomplished?
Because normally they're therefor five to seven days five,
(32:02):
seven, eight, nine days,somewhere around there, a
handful of days and they've gotto do a number of things,
including go and train on thecourse.
So I want to kind of hear fromyou guys Ryan, I'm going to
throw it right back to you Iwant to hear it kind of from you
guys, as how are you havingyour athletes internally
prioritize?
Hey, make sure you get thesedone first, get these done.
(32:22):
Second, get these done.
Third, what's your advice to,what's your advice to athletes
in terms of that rank order ofpriority?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
lengthy process just to get to Chamonix.
You fly into Geneva, you run acar, you take a bus, whatever it
is.
Then you got to haul yourluggage to wherever your lodging
is.
Get to your lodging first.
Drop off your heavy luggage, goto the grocery store and stock
up on what you need.
A big component with all thistraveling is anxiety.
(32:51):
Your gut can get off.
You're eating all thesedifferent foods at different
times of the day.
Make your grocery list on theplane, give yourself something
to do and then go get what youknow works well for your stomach
.
Do that.
Then get back, settle, buildyour nest and just rest and
relax.
I would say on that first dayyou get there, you're going to
(33:11):
be walking around quite a bitand getting in a lot of movement
.
You're going to be walkingaround quite a bit and getting
in a lot of movement.
If you feel the need foranother shakeout, run, go for it
.
But don't I'd say don't plan on.
Oh, I gotta get there and Igotta go get on the trails
immediately, because I'm excitedand it's three days to my race,
so I gotta get on the trailsnow.
Just, it was a big day.
(33:32):
You probably didn't sleep thatwell on the plane, get your
groceries, go chill out, make alittle agenda for the next
couple of days of when you wantto eat, what parts of the course
you want to go see, and takecare of all that.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Steph, what do you have to add to that?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, that's pretty good.
I mean, I'm on board with that.
Get in, get your food, getsettled.
I would say, instead of ashakeout run, a better option
might be to go for a hike.
It's good practice hiking hereanyways, that can be a little
bit easier, lower barrier ofentry.
But yeah, just prioritizing,like feeling saddled.
And then do look at a coursemap Another good thing to do,
(34:10):
maybe on the plane and try toidentify where you do want to
run, because there are somelogistical considerations to be
aware of Like you can't justdrive, you know like, wherever
you want.
It's like going around amountain or through a tunnel and
you know, going to threedifferent countries.
That does create somedifficulties and there's good
public transport, but it doesn'tgo everywhere.
(34:30):
So be aware of like what yourlimitations are and start
planning out little parts of thecourse.
And if I only had a few days,my order of like what's
important would be to see thefinish, so you can take a train
up the valley to Valercine or toArgentier to do the last part
of the course.
And if you're cutting evencloser, you can just go up to
(34:54):
Fleijer.
You can even take a lift up toFleijer and run down.
I think that's an importantpart to see.
Other than that, I mean you'regoing to have there's a lot of
the course that isn't going tobe accessible.
So prioritize the parts thatyou can get to and then, just
you know, focus on good rest.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, your note on the public transportation and
just getting around peace iswell taken, because it's not
easy when that many people comedown.
So sometimes the trains getoverwhelmed, Sometimes the buses
get overwhelmed.
The Mont Blanc tunnel isnotoriously a shit show from
time to time where they'll closeit or it's a three hour wait.
There's a good app that I'lllink in to the show notes of
(35:33):
where you can kind of check thewait times.
If you need to go through theMont Blanc tunnel, either for
your CCC start or you want to goover to Cormier, that's where
you're staying for CCC.
But don't think of it as likeunlimited, unfettered access to
all these places.
It's just a little.
It's just hard to.
It's just hard to get aroundand the counsel that I give
athletes is to pick the path ofleast resistance.
(35:54):
And the counsel that I giveathletes is to pick the path of
least resistance.
If something has two or threesteps, try to do something else
that has one.
In terms of where I'm going,where I'm going to start from,
Do I need to take a train to abus and hitch a ride and I'm
going to hike uphill and thenyou know take, take.
You know take the gondola.
If you've lived, if you'velived in the Valley and you know
how to work this system oryou've been there for a few
(36:15):
years, great, Go and go at it.
But if this is your first time,your second time, like, just be
smart with that and justrealize that even the locals
there to to Steph's point,complain and bitch and moan
about the transportation comerace week because it does get so
overwhelmed.
So if you think you're going tobe able to navigate it as a
kind of as an outsider or as afirst timer, I would say, think
(36:36):
again and pick simple things.
Ryan, I had the same kind ofrank order of priority as you
did, but I simplified it tosleep first, get food second and
then train third.
Like, if you just want tointernalize it there, make sure
you're on top of your sleep, goand get groceries before you
train and then, if you do end updoing a little bit of training,
you can absolutely, to Steph'spoint, prioritize hiking, Like
(37:00):
you're going to hike a lot ofall of these, a lot of all these
races.
Even the leaders hike a lot,Like don't you know?
You don't have to run aroundthe track and chimney, it's
beautiful, it's a nice track.
It's a pristine area and you'llsee a lot of.
You'll see a lot of athletesdoing their shakeout run there
and doing strides out on thetrack and things like that.
Just go for a short hike.
It's more specific, it's easier, it's it's the scenery is
(37:24):
better out on the trails.
But anyway, I guess my pointwith that is is sleep first, get
food, second, if you can sleep,and then and then think about
training at third ryan.
Do you have any other things toadd in terms of training and
scouting out on the course?
You know you've had a number ofathletes that are out there and
and they're all kind of doingdifferent races.
Are you directing them to anyone particular part of the
(37:47):
course or another and how areyou managing that?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
for most north american runners.
They are not used to a thousandpeople at the start line and
having to run at your thresholdon the pavement with all those
people.
So I like to advise my athletesto go run the start, because
you run you kind of run aroundtown you still onto the trail
and then you start to climb.
That's like a four or five milerun.
(38:11):
If that is a great way to justpreview that section and get a
feel for, oh, the road is thiswide so we're really going to be
jumbled together and then itsplits out, you hit the trail,
et cetera, I say go run that,beginning to where that first
climb starts, just to get a feelfor it's kind of a net downhill
(38:31):
, it's going to be pretty fast,and then also realize that it
stays relatively wide to trackgoing up.
This is talking about the UTMBstart.
You're not going to have thispinch point bottleneck of just
single track and three miles orwhatever bottleneck of just
single track and three miles orwhatever.
(38:51):
So I say go see the start soyou can be comfortable with that
very fast start and mass ofpeople.
Because the biggest race inNorth America at least the
United States, Western States369 runners, you go two and a
half X.
That it can be overwhelming fora lot of North American runners
.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
A lot of people are surprised at how long that first
section is of just flat runningright, cause we just spent this
whole time talking about oh mygosh, it's steep and you're
going to hike a lot and blah,blah, blah, blah.
That's what everybody you know,that's what they've heard,
that's what everybody says.
But then they get out there andit's like a lot of just it's
over an hour of just running onflats just to get to the first
climb.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, five miles.
Looking at here.
Yeah, five miles until you hitthat pitch.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
It's like a run that I do.
I live at the base of the firstclimb, so I will run from my
house to Chamonix and back andthat's like an hour run.
So it's not insignificant andit is fast.
And to Ryan's point, the firstclimb is very wide, like you've
got room does turn to singletrack when you start to go
downhill, which can be kind of abottleneck, but you do have
(39:53):
time to sort it out and to likeend your groove and breathe and
think because it is a very faststart.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Okay, I think we've got a pretty good toolkit going
around.
I'm going to open it up to anyother.
Like unique or special thingsor things that kind of didn't
fit into our outline that you'readvising your athletes to do or
even not to do as they areabout to travel over here or as
they are kind of in route.
I can imagine people likesitting on a plane like oh shit,
I should have done this orshould have done that, while
(40:20):
they're actually listening tothis.
We'll see if that turns up ornot.
But, steph, we'll kind of startfrom you.
Is there anything else thatdoesn't fit in this outline that
you want people to be aware ofas they're traveling into the
valley?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
One thing when you're out in the course that I think
is a benefit is there's a lot ofoptions to refill your water
and to get food.
So that's something we're notused to from living in North
America of like having to filterwater, like go to a store.
There's a lot of spigots.
It's kind of nice to know wherethey are, like, if you can be
aware as you're running, if youknow where they are in the race,
that's kind of like a nicebenefit too.
So that's definitely a perk.
Everybody who is french sayshello on the trail and it's rude
(40:58):
not to, and like they do callout the americans.
So everyone says bonjour whenyou pass them on the trail, like
it doesn't matter if they'refriendly or not.
They might not actually befriendly, but they always say
hello.
Just say bonjour back ratherthan like ignore them or say
hello Like you're in France.
Give it a little bit of effort.
That goes a long way, I think,for people and locals have a
(41:21):
little bit of a love-haterelationship with the race
Mostly hate, I would say, of alove hate relationship with the
race, mostly hate, I would say.
So anything that we can do tomake it like a positive
interaction with the runner hereI think is a good thing to do.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I love that social component of it stuff.
Now that you've lived there,you've kind of see, feel the
feel, feel the vibe.
All right, ryan, we can turn itover to you anything else that
didn't fit on the outline well,I'd say control what you can
control.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Pack your snacks and then be prepared for that long
flight.
Airplane food's not that greatand I said it earlier.
You're traveling, your mealroutine gets out of whack.
Lessen the stress as much asyou can by controlling as much
as you can.
We can't control everything,but you can pack your favorite
snacks and be prepared when youget off the plane in Geneva or
(42:06):
wherever you still got a ways togo to get to Chamonix.
Stop in the airport.
You can get you a snack oralready be prepared.
Consider cutting out alcohol.
Like we all know, it impactsour sleep.
We've been bemoaning the factof the time zone shift getting
settled.
Cutting that out for a few daysisn't gonna hurt you.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Giving somebody a little bit of a challenge there,
ryan.
Okay, so I have one here thatwe didn't talk about, but it
kind of I think it's an umbrellaover everything.
So there's a lot of stuff to doand people to see.
There's all of the media events.
You want to go and see theelite athletes?
You want to get your selfietaken with Jim Walmsley?
There's any number of differenttalks that all the brands put on
(42:47):
that they bring their athletes,uh, that they're athletes too.
There's usually a couple ofmovies or films, uh, that are
shown.
There's a huge expo what dothey actually call it?
There's something that theycall it like that, the salon.
There we go Thank you, stephwhen every brand that you can
think of and that you've neverheard of is there, and I guess
what I'm saying is there's a lotof cool stuff to do.
(43:08):
There's also a lot of reallygreat restaurants and pastry
shops and things like that.
So my advice to athletes is togive yourself a budget and
schedule it out in terms of whatactivities you actually want to
do, because when you get there,there are more things to do
than you have time for, and Ihave been there every single
(43:30):
year.
I've been there and this isprobably I'm probably going on
my like ninth or 10th year rightnow.
I have been there as a tourist.
I've never done the race.
I've always been in a coachingcapacity and in a business
capacity and a work capacity.
I can go do all this stuff andI try to and I fail at getting
all of it done.
So what I use that as anexample just to say that there's
(43:51):
there, there's more things outthere to actually do that are
actually really cool than youcan usually practically,
practically get to.
So look at it all of, look atall of it in advance.
Make yourself a budget and then, when you get there and you
want to go to athlete, talk Xinstead of the training talk
(44:11):
that I'm going to do or whatever, substitute one for the other
and don't add because that's themistake people make is that
their eyes get start to getbigger than their stomach in
terms of all the things that, uh, that they can do.
And it is cool.
I got a lot.
It is really cool.
I've been there, I've seen itall.
I do think that it's that thata lot of it is really neat.
But give yourself a budget anda schedule, stick to it and try
(44:34):
not to get too overwhelmed witheverybody else, and if you
absolutely have to go and seesomething, go send a surrogate
and just ask them how it was.
80% of it is kind of the samestuff and then 20% of it is kind
of the same stuff and then 20of it is kind of novel and
unique.
So that that's my advice topeople is to set a schedule, set
a budget in terms of theactivities that you actually
want to do and then stick to itas much as you can and I'll add
(44:56):
to that going into chamonix isoverwhelming because of all the
people and events going on.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
So when you're thinking about that budget,
maybe don't plan something everysingle day.
I start with, like when ispacket pickup?
Okay, packet pickups then isthere a shakeout run before then
like cluster your things.
So it's not like every dayyou're going into chamonix twice
, especially if you're staying alittle bit outside, if you have
to take public transport inhopefully that's the option or
(45:22):
if you have to drive in, thatcan be really painful to find a
place to park, and so I wouldjust like limit the number of
times you're having to go backin.
So find things that you canlike stack together, and that's
a good strategy, I think, tokeep yourself from overdoing it.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
We didn't even talk about packet pickup.
That's a whole nother deal inand of itself.
It's a lot of waiting, so beprepared for that.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Take some deep breaths.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, steph, to the overscheduling part of it.
You can tell me to delete thisif it's throwing you under the
bus a little bit.
But I remember one year weworked together as coaches and
athlete for a long time.
This is one of the years thatwe were working together.
You got scheduled for, I think,nine different things UTMB week
(46:09):
, from all of your varioussponsors and kind of other
obligations that you had.
I remember you telling me thatand I'm like that's too much.
So just think, if one person isgetting that much stuff
scheduled, multiply that by allof the other things that are
going on.
That gives you a great sense ofwhat, like all the things that
you can do that you're probablyare not going to get to.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, it's not restful when you're on your feet
walking around interacting withpeople all day long.
So pick what's important andsay no to everything else.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Ryan, what are we going to pick?
We're going to be coaches andtourists there, so what are you
going to do?
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I'm going to get a lot of pastries in the morning.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I will say I'm going to give a shout out here for the
best race of the best race ofthe week is the kids race, I'm
not kidding you, and that's on,I think, wednesday or Thursday.
There's every different age.
You can start from three yearsold up to, I think, seven years
old before they do the YCC andthey send them off in waves and
it's like the most magical thing.
So if I were to add that toboth of your lists, that would
be like one of the top ones.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
I'll go check it this year.
Can I watch Julian race?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, he is going to be racing this year.
He's already stoked.
Nice, awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
All right, you two.
Well, the next time I see youguys, we will be all in France.
Besides our Zoom, yeah bonjour,besides our Zoom Bonjour, yeah,
bonjour.
Besides our Zoom calls andthings like that.
The next time I see both of youguys in person, we'll be all
there.
So I'm going to take all theadvice that you guys gave me I
won't get sick.
I'm going to abstain fromalcohol, I'm going to log into
my time shifter app and startshifting my time so that I'm
(47:38):
like rip-roaring and ready to goCoach people not necessarily
train or run or race, but gocoach people out there,
appreciate you guys' time andexpertise on this and I'm
looking forward to connectingwith you guys once we all get
over there Likewise.
All right, folks, there you haveit, there you go.
Much thanks to Ryan and Stephfor coming on the podcast today
(48:01):
and enlightening us with some ofthe things that they are
advising their athletes on asthey travel out to the UTMB
races.
I cannot wait to get out there.
This is one of my favoritetimes of the entire year.
I hope to see a lot of youlisteners out there.
If you happen to see mestrolling around the streets of
Chamonix, probably with somegelato, say hi, take a selfie.
(48:23):
I love meeting y'all out in thefield.
Tell me what you want to seecoming up on the podcast.
A lot of these things that wementioned on the podcast are
things that I am going to do andthings that I actually have my
athletes do.
So take note, please feel freeto use them, regardless of if
you are going to one of the utmbraces or you happen to go to
another race that crosses a lotof time zones.
Much of this content will beevergreen across everything.
(48:46):
That is it for today, folks,and, as always, we will see you
out on the trails.
Trail and ultra runners.
What is going on?
Welcome to another episode ofthe coop cast.
As always, I am your humblehost, coach jason coop, and this
episode of the podcast is aimedat the thousands of runners
that will be descending upon theChamonix Valley over the next
several days in order toparticipate in the UTMB races,
(00:29):
but this podcast can also serveas a blueprint for any athlete
that is going over to Europe, orany European athlete that is
coming over to North America, orany athlete that is traveling
an extensive amount to a race.
We wanted to make sure thatathletes have the right
information at the tips of theirfingers and in their earbuds,
so I brought on to the podcasttoday two of our crack coaches
(00:52):
and Stephanie Howe, who happensto live in the Chamonix Valley,
as well as Ryan Anderson, whowill be going over there with me
with our contingent of coaches,to go out and help our athletes
in the race.
And throughout this podcast wego through several aspects of
how we are advising our ownathletes and how to manage the
travel and the thingslogistically related to getting
(01:15):
over there and having a goodrace how to manage jet lag,
sleep, what to prioritize whenyou actually get on the ground
and all of those aspects thatI'm sure many of you are working
through right now.
This is a really magical week.
I hope to see many of youlisteners out there on the
trails and in Chamonix itself.
(01:36):
So, with that as a backdrop, Iam getting right out of the way.
Here's my conversation with CTScoaches Stephanie Howe and Ryan
Anderson way.
Here's my conversation with CTScoaches Stephanie Howe and Ryan
Anderson all about how tomanage the travel process as you
get out to the Chamonix Valley.
Okay, we'll start out withidiots running around the
(01:56):
mountain.
Thanks you guys for joining onthe podcast.
Today we're going to talk aboutall things training and
preparation for Chamonix.
I wanted to put preparation inthere because the training is
going to be baked.
This is going to come out about10 days before all of the UTMB
races take place, which isprecisely the amount of time
that is left to, where you can'tmake a difference from a
(02:19):
fitness standpoint.
But you can sure screw it up.
But before we get into all that, my point with this is to first
and foremost kind of be a guidefor mainly the North American
athletes that are going overthere.
There are obviously going to besome European athletes, or
people from the UK and maybepeople from Asia and Oceania,
are traveling over there and Ithink some of the things that
(02:39):
we're going to discuss are goingto cross over.
But I wanted this to be alittle bit of a guide for those
people that are traveling overthere and participating in the
races.
It's a once in a lifetime typeof deal.
It's hard to acquire the numberof stones and get through the
lottery process, and the purposeof this podcast is, to my
earlier point, to make sure thatpeople don't screw it up in the
(03:02):
last 10 days.
But since we're coaches, we'regoing to talk a little bit more
or we're going to start out withjust some of the training
considerations going into it.
So, for the people that arepreparing to run UTMB 2025,
people are starting to look atthat right now.
I've had a number of athleteinquiries come in the door
recently that have referencedone of the races coming up in
(03:22):
2025 or 2026 as one of theirgoals.
One of the races coming up in2025 or 2026 is one of their
goals.
So if you are in that camp,listen to these training
considerations as well.
So we have two people on thepodcast today Stephanie Howe and
Ryan Anderson.
I thought that they wereexcellent resources, not only
having been over to the racesfor a few years now, but now
actually Steph lives over in theValley.
(03:45):
So, steph, why don't we kick itoff with you from a training
perspective?
You went through this move,where you lived in the Bay Area,
you moved over to France, youknow, kind of put down your
roots there.
I think there's probably nobodybetter equipped to talk about
what some of just the day-to-daytraining considerations not
only for training out there butalso training for these
(04:06):
particular races areparticularly for people that are
coming over there from NorthAmerica.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, the specificity of the trails over here is very
different than what you canfind in the US, and this is
actually I was counting myseventh UTMB race at the finals,
so I've done various distances,but I have been an American
that's come over to race thisrace several times in the past.
(04:33):
So I think what you have toconsider is the difference in
the trails between North Americaand Europe, and that comes down
to generally the steepness.
So you can live in amountainous place I used to live
in Bend, oregon, and there'splenty of vertical there but the
(04:54):
trails are just a lot different, and so one thing that
surprised me the first time Icame over here was just how
steep some of the trails wereand how rocky some of them were.
They're not super technical,the trails of UTMB but they are
different, and so knowing thatahead of time, like looking at
the course profile or maybelooking at the amount of
elevation gain per mile, issomething to be thinking about
(05:19):
as you're planning your 2025.
Like we said, this year isalready, like you know, a little
bit too late to do manytraining adjustments.
But I was describing the trailsto a friend and I was like
they're just kind of relentless.
There's no flow.
You have to be able to run fasttoo, because there's big flat
sections, but then there's like40% grades that go on for like
(05:43):
45 minutes to an hour.
So it's got a little bit ofeverything.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I'm kind of reminded of one of the fundamental
principles of training thateverybody should have learned
about when they first starttraining or first start coaching
, and that's the principle ofspecificity and that matters a
lot when athletes go out there.
It's hard to do it unless youlive in the area.
You try to recreate everything.
I always get this prototypicalquestion of how do I train for
(06:10):
the mountains when I live in theflats?
Right, I'm training forLeadville, I'm training for UTMB
and I live in Nebraska orFlorida or whatever.
And what they're speaking to isjust that point is I don't have
the specificity.
That's what we would call itfrom a coaching perspective.
But to your point, steph, thespecificity of the trails out
there are kind of incrediblyunique and I was reminded of
(06:35):
that because I had a few of myelite North American-based
athletes kind of go out thererecently and start to put
together some training camps andthe sentiment was all very
similar and they were just tired.
It was just hard to speak toyour point about the trails
being relentless.
You go out on a four or six hourrun and it's a bigger toll,
it's a bigger ask than a four orsix hour run in most of the
areas of North America andtaking some of that into
(06:57):
consideration, I think, is a bigkind of a big part of it, so
much so that a lot of peoplewill notice that their stat
sheets kind of get knocked downa little bit.
So this is of particularimportance for the athletes out
there that train by miles.
We don't do that.
We try to train athletes bytime or we try to define volume
predominantly by time.
But for the athletes that thatthat prototypically define their
(07:21):
volume by miles per week orkilometers per week, most of
them, when they go out there,out to this area, will
immediately notice that theirstat sheet gets knocked down and
they're more tired.
And that holds Stephanie'ssaying yes, because you're like,
yeah, that happens to be still,and I've lived over here for a
long time.
That whole cycle of gettingyour stat sheet knocked down
when you're actually looking atit in training peaks or in
(07:44):
Strava or however you'recapturing your, however you're
capturing your training data, isactually something to be
mindful of because it can get alittle bit depressing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, even living here,sometimes I still have to be
reminded of that because youknow a two hour run, I cover
half the distance now and that'sjust the nature of the terrain.
So I think particularlyimportant going into a big race
to keep that in mind, not toknock your confidence right to
be like, wow, why am I suddenlyrunning so slow?
(08:14):
It's just slower over here andyou're not going to move as fast
, you're not going to go as far,and that's something.
If you know that going in, Ithink it can help take the edge
off.
So you don't like knock yourself-confidence totally before
you go into the race or overdoit, which is something we have
typically seen.
Somebody is like I'm gonna do a10 mile run and they go for a
(08:36):
10 mile run and it takes threehours and then they're fried.
That's like we also see thatdirection too, of like overdoing
it because of using whatthey're used to with distance.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, I always have to.
I always have to adjustathletes functional threshold
pace when they go over there,just to make sense out of
everything, and some of it ismore than others depending upon
where they're coming from.
But even if they're coming fromI'm going to use a really
prototypical place that a lot ofathletes are familiar with Even
if they're coming fromsomewhere like Boulder or
(09:09):
Flagstaff, I'm still adjustingtheir functional threshold pace
north of 10%, depending upon theathlete and exactly where
they're coming from.
And that's not a trivial amount.
That means you're runningaround doing 10 minute miles,
you know one day, and then yougo over there and you're running
11 or 12 minute miles, right,somewhere kind of somewhere in
that neighborhood, and that is.
(09:31):
That's a material amount tokind of take into to, to take in
consideration.
Now, I'm not suggesting thatevery athlete make that
adjustment, but certainlydepending upon where you're
coming from, even if you'recoming from a more, even if
you're coming from a mountainousarea and you mean Colorado
Springs here I have all thevertical in the world I would
still do that for myself If Iwent over there and I spent a
(09:51):
significant amount of training.
I would adjust everything, or atleast adjust my mileage
expectations and or my paceexpectations by maybe 20%,
probably 50, probably probablycloser to 15%.
So, athletes, keep that in mindwhen you go over there and even
if you do a recon, like a quicklittle, like if you've never
been there before, you do aquick little recon of the trails
or whatever you go and you mapit out on gaia or whatever it is
(10:13):
, make sure that the time isgoing to be reasonable and in
line with what you want to dofrom a training perspective.
Because we've all seen thiswhere athletes want to go out
there, they want to to reconpart of the course and that
recon ends up being a four orfive-hour run when all they
wanted it to be was a couplehours.
Ryan had an athlete who he wentover and continued ahead, who
did something similar to that,not to the exact same tone, but
(10:35):
we'll turn it over to you.
Ryan, do you want to addanything to what Steph and I
were talking about in terms ofjust the general training
considerations for athletes thatare going over there?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah.
So on that note of athlete getsover there early and their
stats change quite a bit.
Here's some real numbers.
So this athlete, before theywent to Chamonix to get in some
training time on the course,they still live in a very steep
mountainous area.
Two weeks before they go 79miles, 14k, 94 miles, 16k.
(11:05):
They get over to Chamonix 56miles, 10k of MERT and then a 70
mile week at 20k.
That was a lot of numbers.
So basically, putting actualdata to that of their climbing
went up by 50 percent and theirmileage went down by 20 to 30
percent.
So it's way easier said thandone.
But don't get attached to yournumbers.
(11:27):
And on that confidence pieceyou will find athletes who have
been out there for many weeks inChamonix over a month, and they
have been getting time on thecourse with all that steep
terrain and that climbing.
And you may see their numberson Strava and like, oh my gosh,
I'm not doing enough.
Turn off your Strava, delete itoff your phone, because if you
(11:49):
look at that your confidence isonly going to tank and like I
have to do more.
That's getting close to therace.
How can I fit in more?
So and this confidencecomparison piece applies to any
race.
Avoid, avoid the trap ofcomparison as you get closer,
because we always want tocompare to people that are doing
more than us.
Right, we don't want toconsider how their life is way
(12:13):
different than us being able toget out there much sooner, being
a full-time professionalathlete or whatever it is.
So avoid the comparison trap soit does not knock your
confidence the fresh.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I'm always reminded of the freshness, the freshness
and fatigue curve that'sautomatically generated in
strava and training peaks has anequivalent of that, or I guess
they have kind of the originalversion of that in their CTL and
their ATL.
There's no way that thoseequations can account for the
surface of the train unlessyou're manually adjusting the
(12:45):
threshold values, which is thekind of the relative calibration
point, and that's really hardto do, even for us.
We do it for a living and a lotof athletes they get it kind of
engrossed to your point, ryan,in the stats.
They'll look over at that andimmediately, because of the math
that you just went throughlower mileage, more vertical,
slower miles their, theirfitness will take a little bit
(13:08):
of a hit and they'll be likewait a minute, it's just, you
know, I feel fit, I'm thefittest I've ever been.
Why is my fitness line goingdown?
Nothing's happening from aphysiological perspective.
It's just math that you'reslowing down and and that curve
is just a reflection of that, ofthe, of that very simple math.
So, needless to say, I thinkthe thing, the summary of it, is
(13:29):
if you're going over there andyou're doing your last few runs
and or you're thinking aboutdoing this 2025 or 2026 and you
go and you spend an appreciableamount of training over there or
you're trying to get ready forit.
Start to psychologize what thedifference in terrain is
actually going to mean to you.
Don't let it get you down.
Everybody has to deal with it.
We just ended a really longstint of the North American men
(13:54):
not being able to win that race,and a big part of that is this
terrain transition.
It's not the only part,obviously, but a big part of
that is the train transitionthat we just don't have but that
we just don't have availablehere.
So that's, I think that'sreally emblematic of what
everybody experiences.
Okay, so let's move to here andnow.
By the time this comes out,race will be 10 days away.
There's going to be a lot ofpeople participating in it about
(14:15):
10,000 total between all theraces there.
All of a similar setup forathletes that are traveling
there.
They're traveling there theweek of 10 days before, 14 days
before.
Most people will fly into Geneva.
Some people will fly into Milan.
There'll be some other smallerairports, but Geneva airport
tends to be the hub and for theNorth American athletes, they're
(14:38):
going through a prettysignificant time zone shift
between as they fly over theAtlantic ocean, and they're
giving themselves just barelyenough time to get over that
time zone shift.
But some of the races start inthe evening, so it presents this
kind of weird like conundrum ofhow do I actually start to, how
do I actually start to plan forthis?
(14:59):
So let's kind of bring it froma very practical standpoint.
We all have athletes that arecoming from North America and
other parts of the world overthere in terms of travel.
Brian, we're going to kick itover you first again what are
you advising your athletes on?
What to do and also what toavoid, as they're traveling over
there?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So first, your point of the untraditional start time
CCC, 9 am, utmb, 6 pm.
Don't overcomplicate it and tryto get this perfect shift to
that time.
You never did that for yourtraining.
You went to work, you workedyour third shift, shift,
whatever and you made trainingwork.
You've got less than a week toget over there and get adjusted.
(15:38):
Don't over complicate it andlike, oh, if it's a 6 pm start,
maybe I could time it to where Isleep from 9 am to 4 pm, and
just oh, don't over complicateit.
And the time shifter app is agreat app that can help you
slowly adjust and potentiallyhave a smooth transition.
(15:58):
You put your flights into theapp and it tells you how to
target the time of day in whichyou're exposed to light or not
exposed to light.
And your caffeine timing andit's straightforward, it's on
your phone, it gives you somegood guidance.
Caffeine timing and it'sstraightforward, it's on your
phone, it gives you some goodguidance.
The CDC also has a very helpfulsection on their website on jet
(16:19):
lag that simplifies theinformation.
That's another good resource.
And again, remember, it's notgoing to be perfect, so just
take a deep breath and relaxwhen you're planning your
traveling over there.
It's not going to be perfect.
Much like a C-level athletegoing to altitude You're not
going to get the timing rightand peak and fill your most best
(16:40):
.
Do the best you can, use goodinformation to do the best you
can and be okay with that, andit's not going to be perfect.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Shout out to the Time Shifter app.
I've pretty much I think I'vehad all my athletes use it this
year.
I actually have some athletesthat are coming over for
Leadville, which is two daysfrom when we're recording this
from Europe, and I had them dothe same thing.
You hit the nail on the head,ryan.
It's not perfect, but it cansoften the blow.
You guys have been there withme in the CTS coach chalet.
(17:11):
Usually the third day I sleepfor like 12 hours because I do a
pretty shitty job of managingmy time zone shift, but,
needless to say, I have noaffiliation with that.
I've just found it prettyuseful.
It's not perfect.
The recommendations aresometimes slightly impractical
because they don't know yourlifestyle or anything like that.
But be an adult, you know, beintelligent, follow the the
(17:33):
guidance, follow the advice asmuch as you can and, like I said
, I think the big thing is itcan can kind of soften the blow
there.
So if I'm gonna throw it overto you because you're living
there right now but you stillhave north american athletes
like coming over there andthey're going to probably visit
you in the you know, days beforethe race and they're on one
time zone and you're on theother one.
What are you telling yourathletes to do in route as
(17:53):
they're getting into the valley?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah.
So I have two things to add.
The first is, remember you'recoming over here to do a race
and so sleep is important.
So you want to adjust to thetime zone if you can, but not at
the expense of missing sleep.
So if you're coming over andjust have a few days, I would
say like, yeah, land, and liketake a nap, whereas if you're
(18:16):
here like, let's say, 10 daysbefore, I would say try maybe
that first day to stay up alittle bit later, get a little
more used to the time zone, andthen you know you can kind of
adjust along the way.
But if you're coming over kindof last minute, like let sleep
be the number one priority,because it doesn't matter if
you're adjusted to the time zone, if you haven't slept at all in
(18:37):
48 hours, that's not a goodplace to be going into a long
race.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, and that's the first thing.
That's a good point, becauseTDS, utmb and CCC for it.
Well, utmb and TDS for the backof the half finishers or is
over a day in terms of how longit's taking them to do the race,
and CCC can be upwards of a dayplus 24 hours, plus in terms of
how long some of the back ofthe packers are out there.
(19:02):
So sleep deprivation actuallybecomes a really important
component of things.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
The other piece is a lot ofpeople take melatonin, and that
can be useful, but make sure youtry it before you use it before
a race.
Saying this because I've donethis the wrong way, because some
people are more sensitive thanothers and so if you take a
melatonin you might wake up andbe super groggy.
(19:27):
I don't know what the half-lifeis on it, but you don't want
that going into a race at all,so sometimes it might mean a
half a dose.
Some people feel better withoutit, but you don't want that
going into a race at all, sosometimes it might mean a half a
dose.
Some people feel better withoutit.
But if you are going to use itas part of the way that you get
yourself on this time zone, makesure to try it ahead of time to
make sure that your bodyresponds to it in an appropriate
way.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I'll add one thing to the don't focus on perfection
side of it as well.
That we know from the researchis in.
We have really great researchon sleep deprivation and sleep
restriction Thanks to the,thanks to our almighty military.
They tend to be the pioneers inthis because they want soldiers
up at all day and night doingsoldier types of things.
But you can synopsize from anendurance perspective.
(20:09):
One of the things that we doknow about sleep restriction is
typically one night of sleeprestriction.
So you screw up your sleep onenight, you know.
You go to bed at 2am, you wakeup at 6am, something like that
right, where you take yourprototypical eight hour sleep
cycle and you condense it tojust a few hours.
Performance isn't affectedafter that one night, usually
after two and three nights, ifthat's when you start to see
(20:30):
some sort of performancedeterioration.
So to your point of both of youguys have kind of mentioned
this point either with the nightstarts or just trying to figure
out how to get sleep in thefirst place.
Realize that it doesn't have tobe perfect.
Even if you came over to UTMBand you had crappy sleep for a
few nights, if you get back ontrack, that's probably not going
(20:52):
to affect your performance.
And it's probably going toaffect your performance more if
you're up worrying about it andyou start to take copious
amounts of sleep aids likemelatonin and things like that.
So realize that you don't haveto get it perfect.
You can go through a certainamount of sleep, a small amount
of sleep restriction, and nothave it affect performance too
much, but you certainly don'twant it to compound.
(21:14):
We're going to talk about someCOVID precautions in a little
bit because we'd be remiss toskip over that since there seems
to be another wave breaking outin Europe right now.
But I'm going to go into acouple of other travel things
that I wrote notes down on.
First thing is every year wetend to have this year we're
going to have a north of 40athletes over at UTMB.
(21:35):
I guarantee you at least threeof them and probably five.
We can take a $2 bet on thisrhyme.
When we get over there,probably five and I hate to say
this but I'm just trying to keepit real We'll have their
luggage lost.
This happens every year willhave their luggage lost.
This happens every year.
The Geneva airport, for whateverreason, it's like on and off
(22:03):
shit show.
I remember one year when I wasleaving the Geneva airport not
to make everybody paranoid aboutthis, but their luggage
handlers had gone on strike andall of the luggage that they
basically couldn't process it.
So you could check it in but itwould never make it to your
plane because they had nobody tolike take it from where.
You checked it in and loaded upon the plane and they just
stacked it up in these big likeshipping containers that were on
(22:24):
the airport property justdozens of them.
And so, anyway, people wouldcheck it in and their luggage
would never make it on the plane.
Hopefully that doesn't happento anybody, but it will happen
to some people.
So there's two things about this.
First thing is, if there'sanything absolutely mission
critical your favorite type ofloop, your favorite socks,
(22:47):
whatever it is that isimpossible to recreate carry it
on with you.
Also, realize that Chamonix is,at this time, probably the best
resourced trail running placein the entire planet.
For that week you have everysingle brand, every single
nutrition product, every singleshoe company, every single sock
(23:09):
company, every single companythat makes a pack poles you name
it.
So when your luggage gets lostand I'm sorry for the small
percentage of people whoseluggage will be lost.
You know what you should thinkabout it as a good opportunity
to go and buy more gear andinevitably because of all of our
athletes out there, to myearlier point of we're going to
(23:30):
have a north of 40 there.
I will probably be thatresource.
People will call me in a panic.
I've done this several timesand driven out to places in the
middle of the night to find gearand find nutrition stuff like
that.
It's usually pretty easybecause everything is so
resourced.
You have 10,000 runners and 80or a hundred thousand trail
(23:51):
running fans and things likethat all in the same area.
You have all the brands in thesame area.
You're going to be able to findyour stuff.
I guess is my point.
So don't panic.
If you do end up losing yourluggage, say yippee.
Whip out your credit card, buya bunch of stuff that's
overpriced in the ChamonixValley, you'll get over it.
But carry the stuff that isabsolutely mission critical to
(24:12):
you.
Maybe your shoes, maybesomething that just fits in your
pack in a certain way thatyou've never been able to find
before, your lucky necklace orwhatever it is.
Carry it on with you.
Everything else that may getlost in a certain percentage of
you, this will happen.
You can recreate in theChamonix Valley, so, don't worry
(24:32):
, is the big thing For the RCTSathletes that are going out
there that are listening to this.
You guys all have my number.
You can call me and we'll fixit.
We fixed it every single year.
I can't tell you how manyiterations of this.
It's been batting a thousandpercent.
We've always been able to getnutrition.
We've always been able to getgear you kind of name it at the
last minute.
It is never.
I was going to say rarely, butI can't think of one time where
(24:55):
we've missed the ball on this.
It is.
It has never been a big deal.
We've always been able toreplace stuff.
Either of you had anything toadd to that.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
No, I think if you don't want to buy it, you can
borrow it, because there's10,000 athletes here, and
everyone who lives here.
Even if they're not racing,they have gear because that's
why they live here.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, we figure it out.
That's a good point.
Stuff, I'm all about buying newgear, though I like buying
stuff.
Okay, let's talk about COVIDprecautions.
There's another round going onthere.
I've had athletes that havebeen, that have gotten COVID
since.
They've been there over thelast six weeks or so just
training.
The Olympics just happened.
It affected the US men's trackand field team, kind of sports
up and down the board, andthat's a big deal, right, you go
(25:34):
from a potential gold medal tono medal.
You go from, in a UTMB case,potentially finishing to not
finishing because you get sick.
People spend hundreds of hourstraining and can sometimes, very
unfortunately and verytragically, kind of get knocked
out by an illness.
So I want to kind of hear fromyou guys what you're telling
your athletes to do when theyget here there.
(25:56):
I have heard from the UTMB folks, just to kind of put this in
perspective, that close to ahundred thousand people come
down to the Chamonix Valley forthis race, which is kind of
incredible.
Right, there's 10,000 people inall the races it's somewhere
around that number.
So that means 10 times thenumber of participants are
coming in just to watch, cruise,spectate, observe on and on,
(26:21):
and whether or not that's amarketing number that's slightly
inflated, or a real number.
We'll leave that speculation toother people, but it's a lot of
people in a small area, I guess, is what I'm coming at.
We'd be naive to think thatthere aren't some illnesses that
are going to go around, whetherit's COVID or, you know your
run of the mill, flu and coldtypes of stuff.
So, steph, what are you tellingyour athletes to do as they're,
(26:43):
as they're traveling, kind oflike being cognizant of this and
also, as you as a resident,seeing all of the people come in
and observing what is actuallygoing on with the congestion of
humans that are congregating inthe valley?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, as a resident, it's overwhelming Because, yeah,
just like you said, I wouldbelieve that number 100,000
people descend upon the valley.
So I think, in terms ofprecaution, you just use common
sense.
I mean, there's we can'tprevent all human interaction.
Stay out of big crowds and Irealize that sounds
contradictory because there's somany people coming but you can
(27:19):
stay outside, right.
You don't have to go inside toplaces I personally am not going
.
I'm gonna try my best to stayout of, like any type of indoor
place.
I mean, you have to go to thegrocery store.
You can wear a mask.
That is a thing.
It can be protective.
It's not going to protectagainst everything, but if you
have to go somewhere and you'regoing to be around, a ton of
people who just came from whoknows where, you know that's
(27:41):
something that you might want toweigh that risk and choose to
wear a mask, for those types ofactivities are outdoors.
So just spend your time.
You know, spend your timeoutside and you are here to race
again, not to socialize or to,like you know, go to all the
(28:02):
different events.
So just, you don't have toisolate yourself, but you know,
try to keep yourself on the goodside of safe, like not doing
all the activities, because thatthe number of exposures just
increases your number, thenumber of the risk, I guess, of
contracting something.
So that's what I'm telling myathletes and that's what I'm
doing myself, and you know, it'skind of a roll of the dice.
(28:24):
Sometimes you can do your bestto prepare and take precaution,
but you can't prevent everything.
But you can surely reduce thechances that you're going to
interact with multiple people.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I think you touched on the point of consternation
that a lot of people have isthey want to go out and
socialize and experience thingsand at the same time they're
going there to race and thosetwo things in turn.
Those two things can come intoa con and come into conflict in
a number of different ways, andone of them is just the social
interaction that we're.
You know that we're kind ofdiscussing, and so finding your
(28:59):
own fine line or finding yourown balance point between those
two things, I think is a lot ofpeople are going to make that
personal decision, but thinkthrough the what if?
That's why I always encouragepeople to do we can't mandate
people wear masks in the airportand at the grocery store and
things like that.
Everybody can choose what theywant to do.
But think about the what if.
Think about, hey, listen, whatif this happens, and can I feel
(29:21):
good about the decisions that Imade that potentially led to
that consequence or outcome?
Also, if you're in a groupsetting or a team setting this
is the number of my eliteathletes are you got to think
about people that are not you?
There are other people in thisequation that you're interacting
with.
Perhaps there are otherathletes in the races, perhaps
(29:42):
their teammates of yours,perhaps their colleagues,
perhaps they're participating aswell.
You know, your actions can alsoaffect them, and I think that's
also a kind of a point ofconsideration.
So so for our, for our part,ryan, how many coaches do we
have?
We have one coach that's notcoming at the last minute, but I
forget what the total headcount is.
I think it's 10?
.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
It's eight or nine, eight or nine.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Okay, eight or nine coaches, like I said, north of
40 athletes that we've got there.
For the coaches that arestaying in our two chalets, I've
told them to all take rapidtests kind of throughout the
week, and the reason is becausewe're meeting with a number of
athletes and we've got to gothere, they've got to come to
our place and we can't not.
We have to have that, that,that small amount of social
(30:22):
interaction.
And the bigger point with thatis is also want the athletes to
feel confident that we aretaking precautions so there's
nothing kind of noodling in theback of their head saying ah
well, you know, I got to meetwith Steph or I've got to meet
with Coop, and they've also metwith 10 other people right this
week, and they're also sharing achalet with nine other people
that are coming from all areasof North America.
(30:43):
I want them to have an enhancedlevel of confidence that we're
taking the kind of the correctprecautions here as well.
So anyway, brian, I'll open itup to you Once again.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
You're going over there with us you'll be there
and you've also have athletesgoing over there.
What have you been telling them, and I guess maybe also what
are you going to do personallyto set yourself up in the best
way possible In terms ofavoiding the crowds?
(31:14):
Go to the grocery store in themorning when you get over there.
There's not much going on inthe mornings.
If you wake up early, nearlyall of those restaurants in the
square there have outdoorseating.
Pick one of those.
Eliminate the chance to goinside and just do the things
you're told to do when the flu'sgoing around when you're in
elementary school Wash yourhands, drink water, have your
(31:36):
hand sanitizer, do all thelittle things.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I think that sums it up pretty good.
Okay, so now let's talk aboutwhat to do when people actually
get there.
So we get there.
They've protected themselves.
They're either taking a bus upto Chamonix or they've rented a
car.
Their family, they're hitchinga ride from somebody.
How should athletes think aboutthe order of priority in which
they get things accomplished?
Because normally they're therefor five to seven days five,
(32:02):
seven, eight, nine days,somewhere around there, a
handful of days and they've gotto do a number of things,
including go and train on thecourse.
So I want to kind of hear fromyou guys Ryan, I'm going to
throw it right back to you Iwant to hear it kind of from you
guys, as how are you havingyour athletes internally
prioritize?
Hey, make sure you get thesedone first, get these done.
(32:22):
Second, get these done.
Third, what's your advice to,what's your advice to athletes
in terms of that rank order ofpriority?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
lengthy process just to get to Chamonix.
You fly into Geneva, you run acar, you take a bus, whatever it
is.
Then you got to haul yourluggage to wherever your lodging
is.
Get to your lodging first.
Drop off your heavy luggage, goto the grocery store and stock
up on what you need.
A big component with all thistraveling is anxiety.
(32:51):
Your gut can get off.
You're eating all thesedifferent foods at different
times of the day.
Make your grocery list on theplane, give yourself something
to do and then go get what youknow works well for your stomach
.
Do that.
Then get back, settle, buildyour nest and just rest and
relax.
I would say on that first dayyou get there, you're going to
(33:11):
be walking around quite a bitand getting in a lot of movement
.
You're going to be walkingaround quite a bit and getting
in a lot of movement.
If you feel the need foranother shakeout, run, go for it
.
But don't I'd say don't plan on.
Oh, I gotta get there and Igotta go get on the trails
immediately, because I'm excitedand it's three days to my race,
so I gotta get on the trailsnow.
Just, it was a big day.
(33:32):
You probably didn't sleep thatwell on the plane, get your
groceries, go chill out, make alittle agenda for the next
couple of days of when you wantto eat, what parts of the course
you want to go see, and takecare of all that.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Steph, what do you have to add to that?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, that's pretty good.
I mean, I'm on board with that.
Get in, get your food, getsettled.
I would say, instead of ashakeout run, a better option
might be to go for a hike.
It's good practice hiking hereanyways, that can be a little
bit easier, lower barrier ofentry.
But yeah, just prioritizing,like feeling saddled.
And then do look at a coursemap Another good thing to do,
(34:10):
maybe on the plane and try toidentify where you do want to
run, because there are somelogistical considerations to be
aware of Like you can't justdrive, you know like, wherever
you want.
It's like going around amountain or through a tunnel and
you know, going to threedifferent countries.
That does create somedifficulties and there's good
public transport, but it doesn'tgo everywhere.
(34:30):
So be aware of like what yourlimitations are and start
planning out little parts of thecourse.
And if I only had a few days,my order of like what's
important would be to see thefinish, so you can take a train
up the valley to Valercine or toArgentier to do the last part
of the course.
And if you're cutting evencloser, you can just go up to
(34:54):
Fleijer.
You can even take a lift up toFleijer and run down.
I think that's an importantpart to see.
Other than that, I mean you'regoing to have there's a lot of
the course that isn't going tobe accessible.
So prioritize the parts thatyou can get to and then, just
you know, focus on good rest.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, your note on the public transportation and
just getting around peace iswell taken, because it's not
easy when that many people comedown.
So sometimes the trains getoverwhelmed, Sometimes the buses
get overwhelmed.
The Mont Blanc tunnel isnotoriously a shit show from
time to time where they'll closeit or it's a three hour wait.
There's a good app that I'lllink in to the show notes of
(35:33):
where you can kind of check thewait times.
If you need to go through theMont Blanc tunnel, either for
your CCC start or you want to goover to Cormier, that's where
you're staying for CCC.
But don't think of it as likeunlimited, unfettered access to
all these places.
It's just a little.
It's just hard to.
It's just hard to get aroundand the counsel that I give
athletes is to pick the path ofleast resistance.
(35:54):
And the counsel that I giveathletes is to pick the path of
least resistance.
If something has two or threesteps, try to do something else
that has one.
In terms of where I'm going,where I'm going to start from,
Do I need to take a train to abus and hitch a ride and I'm
going to hike uphill and thenyou know take, take.
You know take the gondola.
If you've lived, if you'velived in the Valley and you know
how to work this system oryou've been there for a few
(36:15):
years, great, Go and go at it.
But if this is your first time,your second time, like, just be
smart with that and justrealize that even the locals
there to to Steph's point,complain and bitch and moan
about the transportation comerace week because it does get so
overwhelmed.
So if you think you're going tobe able to navigate it as a
kind of as an outsider or as afirst timer, I would say, think
(36:36):
again and pick simple things.
Ryan, I had the same kind ofrank order of priority as you
did, but I simplified it tosleep first, get food second and
then train third.
Like, if you just want tointernalize it there, make sure
you're on top of your sleep, goand get groceries before you
train and then, if you do end updoing a little bit of training,
you can absolutely, to Steph'spoint, prioritize hiking, Like
(37:00):
you're going to hike a lot ofall of these, a lot of all these
races.
Even the leaders hike a lot,Like don't you know?
You don't have to run aroundthe track and chimney, it's
beautiful, it's a nice track.
It's a pristine area and you'llsee a lot of.
You'll see a lot of athletesdoing their shakeout run there
and doing strides out on thetrack and things like that.
Just go for a short hike.
It's more specific, it's easier, it's it's the scenery is
(37:24):
better out on the trails.
But anyway, I guess my pointwith that is is sleep first, get
food, second, if you can sleep,and then and then think about
training at third ryan.
Do you have any other things toadd in terms of training and
scouting out on the course?
You know you've had a number ofathletes that are out there and
and they're all kind of doingdifferent races.
Are you directing them to anyone particular part of the
(37:47):
course or another and how areyou managing that?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
for most north american runners.
They are not used to a thousandpeople at the start line and
having to run at your thresholdon the pavement with all those
people.
So I like to advise my athletesto go run the start, because
you run you kind of run aroundtown you still onto the trail
and then you start to climb.
That's like a four or five milerun.
(38:11):
If that is a great way to justpreview that section and get a
feel for, oh, the road is thiswide so we're really going to be
jumbled together and then itsplits out, you hit the trail,
et cetera, I say go run that,beginning to where that first
climb starts, just to get a feelfor it's kind of a net downhill
(38:31):
, it's going to be pretty fast,and then also realize that it
stays relatively wide to trackgoing up.
This is talking about the UTMBstart.
You're not going to have thispinch point bottleneck of just
single track and three miles orwhatever bottleneck of just
single track and three miles orwhatever.
(38:51):
So I say go see the start soyou can be comfortable with that
very fast start and mass ofpeople.
Because the biggest race inNorth America at least the
United States, Western States369 runners, you go two and a
half X.
That it can be overwhelming fora lot of North American runners
.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
A lot of people are surprised at how long that first
section is of just flat runningright, cause we just spent this
whole time talking about oh mygosh, it's steep and you're
going to hike a lot and blah,blah, blah, blah.
That's what everybody you know,that's what they've heard,
that's what everybody says.
But then they get out there andit's like a lot of just it's
over an hour of just running onflats just to get to the first
climb.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, five miles.
Looking at here.
Yeah, five miles until you hitthat pitch.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
It's like a run that I do.
I live at the base of the firstclimb, so I will run from my
house to Chamonix and back andthat's like an hour run.
So it's not insignificant andit is fast.
And to Ryan's point, the firstclimb is very wide, like you've
got room does turn to singletrack when you start to go
downhill, which can be kind of abottleneck, but you do have
(39:53):
time to sort it out and to likeend your groove and breathe and
think because it is a very faststart.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Okay, I think we've got a pretty good toolkit going
around.
I'm going to open it up to anyother.
Like unique or special thingsor things that kind of didn't
fit into our outline that you'readvising your athletes to do or
even not to do as they areabout to travel over here or as
they are kind of in route.
I can imagine people likesitting on a plane like oh shit,
I should have done this orshould have done that, while
(40:20):
they're actually listening tothis.
We'll see if that turns up ornot.
But, steph, we'll kind of startfrom you.
Is there anything else thatdoesn't fit in this outline that
you want people to be aware ofas they're traveling into the
valley?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
One thing when you're out in the course that I think
is a benefit is there's a lot ofoptions to refill your water
and to get food.
So that's something we're notused to from living in North
America of like having to filterwater, like go to a store.
There's a lot of spigots.
It's kind of nice to know wherethey are, like, if you can be
aware as you're running, if youknow where they are in the race,
that's kind of like a nicebenefit too.
So that's definitely a perk.
Everybody who is french sayshello on the trail and it's rude
(40:58):
not to, and like they do callout the americans.
So everyone says bonjour whenyou pass them on the trail, like
it doesn't matter if they'refriendly or not.
They might not actually befriendly, but they always say
hello.
Just say bonjour back ratherthan like ignore them or say
hello Like you're in France.
Give it a little bit of effort.
That goes a long way, I think,for people and locals have a
(41:21):
little bit of a love-haterelationship with the race
Mostly hate, I would say, of alove hate relationship with the
race, mostly hate, I would say.
So anything that we can do tomake it like a positive
interaction with the runner hereI think is a good thing to do.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I love that social component of it stuff.
Now that you've lived there,you've kind of see, feel the
feel, feel the vibe.
All right, ryan, we can turn itover to you anything else that
didn't fit on the outline well,I'd say control what you can
control.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Pack your snacks and then be prepared for that long
flight.
Airplane food's not that greatand I said it earlier.
You're traveling, your mealroutine gets out of whack.
Lessen the stress as much asyou can by controlling as much
as you can.
We can't control everything,but you can pack your favorite
snacks and be prepared when youget off the plane in Geneva or
(42:06):
wherever you still got a ways togo to get to Chamonix.
Stop in the airport.
You can get you a snack oralready be prepared.
Consider cutting out alcohol.
Like we all know, it impactsour sleep.
We've been bemoaning the factof the time zone shift getting
settled.
Cutting that out for a few daysisn't gonna hurt you.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Giving somebody a little bit of a challenge there,
ryan.
Okay, so I have one here thatwe didn't talk about, but it
kind of I think it's an umbrellaover everything.
So there's a lot of stuff to doand people to see.
There's all of the media events.
You want to go and see theelite athletes?
You want to get your selfietaken with Jim Walmsley?
There's any number of differenttalks that all the brands put on
(42:47):
that they bring their athletes,uh, that they're athletes too.
There's usually a couple ofmovies or films, uh, that are
shown.
There's a huge expo what dothey actually call it?
There's something that theycall it like that, the salon.
There we go Thank you, stephwhen every brand that you can
think of and that you've neverheard of is there, and I guess
what I'm saying is there's a lotof cool stuff to do.
(43:08):
There's also a lot of reallygreat restaurants and pastry
shops and things like that.
So my advice to athletes is togive yourself a budget and
schedule it out in terms of whatactivities you actually want to
do, because when you get there,there are more things to do
than you have time for, and Ihave been there every single
(43:30):
year.
I've been there and this isprobably I'm probably going on
my like ninth or 10th year rightnow.
I have been there as a tourist.
I've never done the race.
I've always been in a coachingcapacity and in a business
capacity and a work capacity.
I can go do all this stuff andI try to and I fail at getting
all of it done.
So what I use that as anexample just to say that there's
(43:51):
there, there's more things outthere to actually do that are
actually really cool than youcan usually practically,
practically get to.
So look at it all of, look atall of it in advance.
Make yourself a budget and then, when you get there and you
want to go to athlete, talk Xinstead of the training talk
(44:11):
that I'm going to do or whatever, substitute one for the other
and don't add because that's themistake people make is that
their eyes get start to getbigger than their stomach in
terms of all the things that, uh, that they can do.
And it is cool.
I got a lot.
It is really cool.
I've been there, I've seen itall.
I do think that it's that thata lot of it is really neat.
But give yourself a budget anda schedule, stick to it and try
(44:34):
not to get too overwhelmed witheverybody else, and if you
absolutely have to go and seesomething, go send a surrogate
and just ask them how it was.
80% of it is kind of the samestuff and then 20% of it is kind
of the same stuff and then 20of it is kind of novel and
unique.
So that that's my advice topeople is to set a schedule, set
a budget in terms of theactivities that you actually
want to do and then stick to itas much as you can and I'll add
(44:56):
to that going into chamonix isoverwhelming because of all the
people and events going on.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
So when you're thinking about that budget,
maybe don't plan something everysingle day.
I start with, like when ispacket pickup?
Okay, packet pickups then isthere a shakeout run before then
like cluster your things.
So it's not like every dayyou're going into chamonix twice
, especially if you're staying alittle bit outside, if you have
to take public transport inhopefully that's the option or
(45:22):
if you have to drive in, thatcan be really painful to find a
place to park, and so I wouldjust like limit the number of
times you're having to go backin.
So find things that you canlike stack together, and that's
a good strategy, I think, tokeep yourself from overdoing it.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
We didn't even talk about packet pickup.
That's a whole nother deal inand of itself.
It's a lot of waiting, so beprepared for that.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Take some deep breaths.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, steph, to the overscheduling part of it.
You can tell me to delete thisif it's throwing you under the
bus a little bit.
But I remember one year weworked together as coaches and
athlete for a long time.
This is one of the years thatwe were working together.
You got scheduled for, I think,nine different things UTMB week
(46:09):
, from all of your varioussponsors and kind of other
obligations that you had.
I remember you telling me thatand I'm like that's too much.
So just think, if one person isgetting that much stuff
scheduled, multiply that by allof the other things that are
going on.
That gives you a great sense ofwhat, like all the things that
you can do that you're probablyare not going to get to.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, it's not restful when you're on your feet
walking around interacting withpeople all day long.
So pick what's important andsay no to everything else.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Ryan, what are we going to pick?
We're going to be coaches andtourists there, so what are you
going to do?
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I'm going to get a lot of pastries in the morning.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
I will say I'm going to give a shout out here for the
best race of the best race ofthe week is the kids race, I'm
not kidding you, and that's on,I think, wednesday or Thursday.
There's every different age.
You can start from three yearsold up to, I think, seven years
old before they do the YCC andthey send them off in waves and
it's like the most magical thing.
So if I were to add that toboth of your lists, that would
be like one of the top ones.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
I'll go check it this year.
Can I watch Julian race?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, he is going to be racing this year.
He's already stoked.
Nice, awesome.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
All right, you two.
Well, the next time I see youguys, we will be all in France.
Besides our Zoom, yeah bonjour,besides our Zoom Bonjour, yeah,
bonjour.
Besides our Zoom calls andthings like that.
The next time I see both of youguys in person, we'll be all
there.
So I'm going to take all theadvice that you guys gave me I
won't get sick.
I'm going to abstain fromalcohol, I'm going to log into
my time shifter app and startshifting my time so that I'm
(47:38):
like rip-roaring and ready to goCoach people not necessarily
train or run or race, but gocoach people out there,
appreciate you guys' time andexpertise on this and I'm
looking forward to connectingwith you guys once we all get
over there Likewise.
All right, folks, there you haveit, there you go.
Much thanks to Ryan and Stephfor coming on the podcast today
(48:01):
and enlightening us with some ofthe things that they are
advising their athletes on asthey travel out to the UTMB
races.
I cannot wait to get out there.
This is one of my favoritetimes of the entire year.
I hope to see a lot of youlisteners out there.
If you happen to see mestrolling around the streets of
Chamonix, probably with somegelato, say hi, take a selfie.
(48:23):
I love meeting y'all out in thefield.
Tell me what you want to seecoming up on the podcast.
A lot of these things that wementioned on the podcast are
things that I am going to do andthings that I actually have my
athletes do.
So take note, please feel freeto use them, regardless of if
you are going to one of the utmbraces or you happen to go to
another race that crosses a lotof time zones.
Much of this content will beevergreen across everything.
(48:46):
That is it for today, folks,and, as always, we will see you
out on the trails.
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