September 17, 2025 • 48 mins
What does it take to transform a state facing serious economic and educational challenges? In this illuminating conversation, former Michigan House Speaker Tom Leonard outlines his vision for revitalizing Michigan as he campaigns for the governor's office.
Michigan's struggles are starkly quantified—ranking 49th in unemployment, near last in population growth, and facing an education crisis where only 25% of fourth graders read at grade level. But Leonard sees tremendous untapped potential in the state's natural resources, research institutions, and hardworking citizens. "This state has all the ingredients it needs for success," he explains. "We just need the right recipe, the right policy, and the right leadership."
Drawing from his experience as a prosecutor in Flint and his legislative accomplishments, Leonard presents specific solutions to Michigan's most pressing problems. His education plan draws inspiration from the "Mississippi Miracle" that transformed literacy rates through early assessment, targeted tutoring, and parental empowerment. For economic growth, he advocates reinstating right-to-work laws, implementing regulatory and licensure reform, and addressing the property tax burden that has many residents feeling "taxed out of their homes."
The conversation goes beyond standard talking points to explore innovative approaches to healthcare, environmental justice, and criminal justice reform. Leonard makes a compelling case for telehealth expansion, highlighting how tele-mental health services could reach every Michigan teenager for just $6 million—compared to $600 million for traditional in-school counselors. He also addresses environmental cleanup of the Rouge River as both an ecological necessity and a matter of social justice.
Throughout the discussion, Leonard emphasizes a positive, solutions-focused approach to governance that transcends partisan divides. "When a party is void of ideas, void of vision, and focused only on hatred of one person, they lose," he observes. His campaign offers an alternative centered on problem-solving and demonstrated success in bringing diverse stakeholders together.
Ready to learn more about a vision for Michigan that prioritizes education, affordability, and opportunity? Subscribe to The Common Bridge for more nonpartisan discussions on policies shaping our future.
Engage the conversation on Substack at The Common Bridge!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to this episode of Season 6 of the
Common Bridge, where policy andcurrent events are discussed in
a fiercely nonpartisan manner.
The host, richard Helpe, is aphilanthropist, entrepreneur and
political analyst who hasreached over 5 million listeners
, viewers and readers around theworld.
With our surging growth inaudience and subscriptions, the
Common Bridge continues toexpand its reach.
(00:22):
The show is available on theSubstack website and the
Substack app Simply search forthe Common Bridge continues to
expand its reach.
The show is available on theSubstack website and the
Substack app Simply search forthe Common Bridge.
You can also find us on YouTubeand wherever you get your
podcasts.
The Common Bridge draws guestsand audiences from around the
political spectrum and we inviteyou to become a free or paid
subscriber on your favoritemedium.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hello, welcome to the Common Bridge.
I'm your host, rich Helpe, andwe're going to continue today by
interviewing the candidates forthe governor of the great state
of Michigan, and today we'vegot with us Mr Tom Leonard.
Tom, welcome to the CommonBridge, very happy to have you.
Yeah, thank you, rich Glad tobe here.
Now listen.
Michigan is a very importantstate.
(01:05):
If you don't live here, ifyou're not a voter, this is
important.
Michigan is on an internationalborder.
We do a lot of trade withCanada and throughout the world.
We are sitting at the hub oftransportation centers.
We've got the largestfreshwater reserves in the world
, there's copper up north andthere's a great future ahead if
(01:28):
we play it right.
And we've all seen states thathaven't played it right.
So running for governor todayTom Leonard.
It's tomformichigancom.
He was born in Montrose, nearFlint, michigan.
His first legal position he wasa clerk at Genesee County and
he's been working in a number oflegislative areas, including
(01:49):
mental health, reforming theteacher's pension system and the
first leader to passconstitutional carry.
He has been elected as a staterepresentative for Clinton and
Gratiot counties and his thirdterm he was the unanimous
selection for the Speaker of theHouse.
Speaker.
Welcome to the Common Bridge.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
What other parts of your bio might be interesting to
the listeners, readers andviewers of the Common Bridge?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, probably, you know the big one is in terms of
career.
I was a prosecutor in Flint forthree years and I tell people
that was still the greatest jobthat I ever had.
Half my time that I was there Iwas a drug prosecutor working
with our undercover drug unitand there were many nights I
used to go on the streets withthe officers.
I'd watch them perform theirduties and again, it was just a
(02:37):
fascinating job.
But showing them that I caredenough to be out there with them
, I mean I can't tell you howmuch that meant to law
enforcement.
But most importantly, I tellpeople the greatest job that I
have is being a dad, a husbandand a dad.
And that's why, rich, that'swhy I'm doing this.
You look at the state of thestate right now.
The only state that Michiganbeat for population growth the
(02:58):
first two decades of the centurywas West Virginia.
We are 49 out of 50 forunemployment, we are bottom 10
for income growth, and thestatistics just go on.
And my biggest fear, like many,is that 10 to 15 years from now
because I know that's going tocome in a blink of an eye, my
little girl or my little boy,they're going to come to me and
they're going to say Dad, I'dlove to stay here in Michigan
(03:19):
with you and mom, butunfortunately I have to leave
for better opportunity.
I don't want that to happen.
That's why I'm doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
What do you see as some of Michigan's greatest
assets, and how would you, as agovernor, make use of these to
realize a better future for ourstate?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Well, I mean, all you have to do is spend a few hours
traveling the state and frankly, maybe I'm a little biased, but
I don't think any other statecan compete.
I mean you mentioned we've gotthe Great Lakes here you go to
the Upper Peninsula.
I mean you cannot find a morebeautiful area.
We've got three of the greatestresearch institutions in this
country right here in the state.
(03:55):
But, most importantly, we'vegot, I believe, the best people
and the hardest working people.
This state has all theingredients that it needs for
success.
We just need the right recipe,we need the right policy.
We need leadership in thisplace that's going to put the
right policies in place so thatthe people in the state can
thrive.
That's what we need.
I joke, my wife is a Hoosierand right now Indiana is
(04:17):
thriving.
They're growing theirpopulation.
Their unemployment is less thanus.
They're growing incomes fasterthan we are.
And I often joke to her haveyou ever driven through Indiana?
I mean, indiana should never bebeating Michigan in anything.
So we just need the rightleadership and the right
policies in place.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, there's many things we need to work on as the
next governor comes in.
What are the two or threethings the next governor you or
one of the other candidates mustdo in that office?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Right.
So there are some what I callthe very basic things that we
have to do.
Ok, so right to work?
We need to bring right to workback to the state.
When you look at the top 10growth states in this country,
nine of the 10, all but Delawareare right to work states.
When Michigan's right to worklaw was repealed two years ago,
michigan was mid-pack forunemployment.
(05:07):
We were one-tenth of onepercent off the national average
.
Now we are 49 out of 50.
That's not a coincidence.
Michigan needs to be aright-to-work state again.
We need regulatory reform inthis state.
I mean Metro Detroit is theeighth worst area in the entire
country to build homes.
Affordable housing is an issuehere in this state.
(05:28):
I mean just in the past fiveyears, rent is up 40%.
The average housing cost is up$100,000.
We need regulatory reform.
But you know what?
We also need licensure reform.
I have an uncle Married my aunt.
He moved here several monthsago.
He was a journeyman electricianin South Carolina for over 20
years.
When he moved here it took himfour months to get a job because
(05:52):
of all the hoops and the teststhat he had to take and
everything he had to jumpthrough to get a job.
This ought to be the easieststate in the entire country to
find a job If you were licensedin another state.
We've got a skilled tradescrisis here.
We've got an affordable housingcrisis.
Let's get people here.
Let's let them work.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That sounds logical to me.
And why would you have all thisbroad field of candidates?
Why would you be the bestgovernor to guide this state?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So you know a history of success and I'll go back to
that in just a minute.
But you know, janelle and I andJanelle's my lovely bride we
spent and I say we because thisis a team effort.
No one person can do it alone.
And if anybody says I can do italone, they're not being
truthful to you and they're notbeing truthful to themselves.
So we spent a lot of timethinking, praying about this and
(06:37):
I did a lot of traveling acrossthe state just listening to
people and what I found was isthere really wasn't a candidate
out there that was reallytalking about issues and trying
to identify problems with realsolutions.
Everything was about how badGretchen Whitmer is or how bad
Jocelyn Benson is and frankly,that is not what the people of
the state are looking for.
(06:58):
They are looking for a problemsolver.
So that's number one.
But number two, a history ofsuccess, I mean when I came into
the legislature.
I'll give you just a coupleexamples.
When I came into the legislaturemy first term preliminary
examination reform that's thefirst step in the criminal
justice process.
When I was a prosecutor, I sawwhat a disaster this was.
I saw how it was takingofficers off the streets, but I
(07:20):
saw how it was re-victimizingvictims every single day and I
said we've got to get somethingdone with this process.
Everybody told me, tom, we'vetried for decades to do
something.
We can't get it done.
I started working on it and Irealized within just a few short
weeks no legislator had evertaken the District Court Judges
Association and the ProsecutorsAssociation, put them in a room
(07:41):
and had them talk about it.
We passed that legislationalmost unanimously.
We got it done.
Driver responsibility fees thelegislature had tried on those
for years to eliminate and getrid of those.
I made it a top priority ofmine.
We got it done.
Teacher pension reform the samething.
So I would say look at my pasttrack record a history of
(08:01):
success.
That's why I know I'll besuccessful as the state's next
governor.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Next year when we elect a new governor 2026,
children are going to be born in2026.
They'll graduate high school in2044.
What kind of future should theyexpect?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, if we don't turn this thing around, they're
going to expect another futurein another state.
That's what's going to happen.
So you mentioned our children.
One of the really big issuesthat we are focused on and we
came right out of the gate, andI think every politician I don't
care if it's Republican,democrat, independent better be
talking about this is theeducation crisis that this state
(08:42):
is facing, especially withtheir grade reading.
Right now, only 25% of thefourth graders in this state can
read at a proficient level 5%in the city of Flint, 11% in the
city of Detroit.
And I can tell you, rach, as aformer prosecutor, if a kid
can't read, if they drop out ofschool because they're
(09:02):
illiterate, you've basicallycreated a pipeline to a welfare
check or a prison cell.
Why would any company, whywould any business want to come
here or expand here if they knowthat our children are not going
to be able to read and we'renot going to have a base that's
educated?
So that's a big one when itcomes to our children.
Third grade reading is one ofthe biggest issues that we're
focused on right now.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Third, grade reading is one of the biggest issues
that we're focused on right now,and how would we as a state go
about improving the scores forthe third grader so that child
born next year, in 2026 going tothird grade in 2033, roughly
what can be done during thatfirst term of a new governor
that would make a difference forthat?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
third grader.
So I say look no further thanthe Mississippi miracle.
And I love this example becauseMississippi is one of the
poorest states in the country.
They spend far less oneducation than we do and yet 10
years ago they were 49 out of 50for third grade reading scores
and because of the right reformsthey are now top 10 in the
(10:01):
country.
That's why it's deemed theMississippi miracle.
So what did they do?
First things first, earlyassessment.
So kindergarten first, second,third grade, each of the
children.
They are assessed three times ayear so they can get their
hands around and determine whichkids are struggling.
Then, once they identify whothose kids are, they invested
into high quality tutors to putthem in the classrooms and get
(10:24):
these children help, and thathas proven to be the most
effective.
I mean, listen, some of theseteachers.
They are teaching in classroomsright now with 25, 30 kids.
These teachers cannot be askedto do this alone.
They need that help in theirclassroom high quality,
certified, qualified tutors inthose classrooms.
Third, they took the bold stepand they said you know what?
(10:44):
Qualified tutors in thoseclassrooms.
Third, they took the bold stepand they said you know what?
We can no longer just pass achild along because we want to
or we think it's the right thingto do.
If they're not proficient, wehave to hold them back.
They took that bold step.
Michigan needs to do the samething.
But probably even mostimportantly, they empowered
parents in this process.
They made certain that therewas a system in place of support
.
They made certain there wascommunication.
(11:06):
They made certain that if thechild had to go to summer school
, that there'd be transportationavailable.
Again, mississippi reallyfocused on third grade reading,
and the last thing I would sayis this We've got an advantage.
I think that Mississippi didnot have Governor Whitmer and I
had been telling Republicansacross the board one issue I
think they really could havecome to the table and supported
her on was universal earlychildhood development.
(11:28):
Okay, universal pre-K, but thatuniversal pre-K is not focused
on third grade reading, and Ithink what we need to do is make
certain that that money andthose investments go into the
science of reading, phonics.
We need to make certain thatwe're preparing those kids at a
young age so that when they getto the third grade they can read
(11:49):
and then we can advance them tothe fourth grade.
And the bottom line is thisChildren spend the first few
years of their life learning toread, and then they read to
learn.
If they can't read to learn,they're going to be damned
through the rest of theireducation career.
Third-grade reading, I believe,is the foundation.
It's what we've got to focus on.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well, I'd sure like to see that come about, and many
of the candidates have talkedabout education as being part of
our declining population andthat we should have priorities
in place to make us a growthstate again.
So we've got birth ratesfalling, out-migration of
college educated which issurprising to me, given
everything here Retirees goingto the Sun Belt, going to get a
(12:28):
little bit of that, and thenimmigrant populations that maybe
we're not seeking.
Besides education, what shouldwe be thinking about in terms of
population growth?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, I mean, well, we've hit a few of them.
I mean, you know, I'm a firmbeliever that you know, in
addition to education,empowering workers and we've
discussed a couple of them Rightto work I mean right to work,
in my opinion, is a it's.
It's a reform that empowersworkers.
It forces unions to beresponsive to the workers that
they're supposed to berepresenting.
(12:59):
This regulatory reform that youknow, that I already mentioned,
but also, you know, thelicensure reform.
I don't know why we don't becomea universal reciprocity state.
There's only a few that do that.
We would have such an advantageif we would do that.
But also in our educationsystem, we need much more
flexibility.
I mean, you look at our meritcurriculum right now.
(13:19):
I think one error that we havemade as a state is we've
essentially told every kidunless you go to a university,
you can't be successful.
Listen, that's hogwash.
I mean, I've met with skilledtrade shops.
I've met with people in theskilled trades that are saying,
listen, 22, 23-year-old kids cancome out, they can make $70,000
(13:40):
, $80,000 a year and have nocollege debt.
And these are good, clean jobs.
If a child is a junior or asenior in high school, why force
them to take another math class, or why force them to take
another foreign language course?
Let's create more flexibility.
Let's let them go into thetrades if that's what they
choose to do.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, look, I'd sure like to be able to get a plumber
, an electrician, carpenter whenthey're needed.
But one of the things when Ithink about that type of trade
school education, which I'm verymuch in favor of okay, grew up
in a blue-collar place, we usedto have great middle-class
standards of living for doingthose skilled jobs, and as
boomer retirees we're going toneed more of that.
All right, because we can't doour stuff safely anymore.
(14:20):
All right, we've got to be alittle more careful.
But I've started looking intowhat some of the classifications
are for government service, andoftentimes it's a degree here,
a degree there, and I'm justwondering if we're
disadvantaging people if we alsodon't get after the civil
service classifications.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Well, I mean, listen, when you look at the civil
service classifications, I liketo tell people in Michigan there
are five branches of government.
You've got the executive, thejudicial, you've got the
legislative and then you've gotcivil service and higher ed.
You know, civil in the trash orthey're not allowed to.
You know, take something to theoffice next to them because
their classification says theycan't, they're going to get
(14:59):
grieved.
I mean, that is not efficient.
But you know, that goes to oneof the other issues that we are
(15:20):
talking about as well isgovernment accountability and
completely changing the culturein Lansing.
Okay, so I had somebodyapproach me a few days ago or,
I'm sorry, a few weeks ago, andthey said, listen, I am a one
issue voter.
I said, okay, what is that?
And they said I am a stateworker and I want to know, if
you get elected governor, whencan I expect to go back to the
(15:43):
office?
And my response was tomorrow.
And they kind of looked at melike shocked and I said and let
me tell you what else we'regoing to do when you go back to
the office.
We're going to program yourphone such that on the fourth
ring, if it's not answered, thatcall goes directly to the
department director's cell phone.
I said we have to change theculture in Lansing, but it's not
just within civil service.
(16:03):
I mean, we've talked aboutaffordable housing.
Ok, let me give you an examplewith the legislature.
So in November, there were twobills that were introduced.
One was going to put asubstantial burden on
electricians.
The other one was going to dothe same thing to plumbers.
Ok, these bills were navigatingthrough the process for several
weeks and at the last minute,the plumbing bill advanced.
(16:26):
It went to the governor's desk,she signed it, and the one
involving electricians it died.
And I often ask the question doyou know why?
And people are like, no, Idon't.
And I say because theenvironmentalists came in at the
last minute and they said ifyou pass this bill that will
impose a burden on electricians,this bill that will impose a
(16:47):
burden on electricians, we willno longer be able to build
thousands of acres of solarpanels across this state.
Now, let that sink in for justa moment.
We have an affordable housingcrisis in this state and there
are legislators that said,essentially, that day, we care
more about building thousands ofacres of solar panels than we
do building affordable housingfor the people of the state that
(17:07):
can't afford it.
That is a culture we have gotto change in Lansing.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yes, and while I also saw that Consumers Power just
sold their 13 hydroelectricplants to private equity with
the idea that the private equityis going to sell the power back
to Consumers Power and I don'tknow much about that, other than
that transaction did occur andhopefully there's some
investment there.
But you mentioned GovernorWhitmer and you know we are in a
(17:32):
political world, so thepolitical landscape, how do you
think her legacy, you know, orperformance in office is going
to play in next year's race?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
The question is going to be how checked in is she?
I mean, listen, I like toremain positive, I like to look
forward because I know that'swhat the people of the state
expect.
Okay, but we also have to behonest.
I mean, as we sit here, inalmost mid-September, we are
facing a government shutdown andthe governor is out of the
(18:02):
country.
She needs to be in Lansingevery day, forcing some type of
budget deal.
So the question is going to bewhat is her legacy going to be?
Is she going to be checked in,you know, over this last year?
I don't know.
I think that's the dilemma thatshe faces right now.
Is she going to be known as thegovernor that checked out in
her last two years?
For her sake, I hope not, andfor the sake of the state, I
(18:25):
hope not.
But that's what it's lookinglike at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And that's going to cast a shadow over this whole
race.
If people are going to runagainst that or can't get out
from behind those coattails- itwill, but you know earlier.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Going back to your question about what separates us
, I mean, the one thing I wantto make clear is, you know we
have really been focused on apositive vision for this state.
I like to tell people I call itthe Dan Campbell approach.
Okay, so when, dan Campbell,you're going to bite someone's
knee, ken, no, we're not goingto do that, but when he?
But you know I'm in favor ofthat.
Well, you know, and sometimesthat might be necessary, but the
(19:01):
bottom line is this when hebecame coach of the Lions and he
took that stage of that firstpress conference, he didn't
focus on four decades of failure, he didn't cast blame, he
didn't point the finger, he justsaid we've got a problem here
and with a lot of grit, a lot ofdetermination and a positive
vision in working together,we're going to turn this thing
around.
We can do the same thing withthat same message here in the
(19:24):
state.
It's just simply going to takethe right leadership and that's
what we're doing.
We're taking the Dan Campbellapproach Every single day.
We're focused on issues.
I tell my fellow Republicanssometimes I go and I speak at
events where it's onlyRepublicans and they want you to
throw them the red meat.
They want you to just simplytalk about Gretchen Whitmer, or
they want you to talk aboutJoslyn Benson.
(19:46):
And what I tell them is this Isay here's some tough talk.
I said if we learned anythingfrom November, when a party is
void of ideas, when a party isvoid of a vision and all they
are focused on is hatred of oneperson, they lose.
The same thing will happen toRepublicans if our only focus is
Gretchen Whitmer or JoslynBenson.
We've got to be focused onsolving problems with a positive
(20:08):
solution.
That's what we're going to doover the next several months.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And I think that's really interesting because we do
have President Trump and itwill be a midterm election how
does President Trump's policies,his popularity, his
polarization play into that 2026run for governor?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So I think, as long as this president continues to
deliver on the promises that hemade on the campaign trail, I
believe we will be just fine.
So I just saw a ratings pollcome out this morning and I
believe he was at 46 or 47percent approval.
That would be in the state ofMichigan, ok, and 18, when
Republicans had a very, verytough environment.
(20:48):
He was floating between high30s and low 40s.
Ok, if he's at 46, 47 or he'sclose to 50, we can have a very
good, solid year.
But what he has to do is he'sgot to be focused on delivering
on those campaign promises.
At this point he's done it onimmigration OK, we will see.
If tariffs bring manufacturingback, I believe he can be
(21:08):
successful.
But I also think the questionis going to be if manufacturing
comes back to the United States,the bigger question is for us
here in Michigan will theychoose Michigan, or are they
going to choose Kentucky orTennessee?
Or, as I said earlier, are theygoing to choose Indiana?
But I think this president Imean certainly he is he is the
biggest personality in theentire country.
(21:29):
We all know that for eitherparty, ok, and he's going to
loom large, but he ultimately, Ibelieve he is going to be a net
asset for Republicans and weare going to need him in the
state next October, nextNovember, making certain that
his low propensity voters areturning out for us again next
November.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Well, it's going to be a senatorial race as well.
Gary Peters is retiring.
He's been there.
You know, quietly more thananything, and how do you think
the impacts of that senatorialrace going on in the state at
the same time?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
we've got midterms and the governor Well, I mean I
can tell you, first and foremost, it's going to drive up costs
for everything.
I mean, I can't even fathom howexpensive TV ads are going to
be next year in the state whenyou've got a gubernatorial race
where you're probably going tohave $100 million spent.
Who knows what Mike Duggan'sgoing to be able to raise
running as't independent.
You're going to have hisexpenditures.
(22:21):
But as you mentioned the Senaterace, I mean there are some
people predicting that could bea $150-$200 million Senate race.
You've got John James' seat isgoing to be open in the 10th.
That's going to be a fight.
There's going to be millionsspent on that race.
Tom Barrett's race in the 7this going to be the.
You know it's the closest racein the entire country.
So when push comes to shove,there's probably going to be
(22:43):
three, four hundred milliondollars spent on television ads.
This is going to be a veryexpensive race.
That's why I believe that anycandidate running for governor
yes, the television ads aregoing to be important, but you
better have a ground game aswell, because you're going to
have to get out your votes onthe ground as well if you're
going to be successful.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, president Trump did not spend and the pundits
said, oh, he can't win.
And he did successfully.
But you mentioned Mike Duggan.
So we've got Mike Duggan, we'vegot Bernie Sanders, we've got
other independents.
Is there a possibility thatthat party polarization is going
to benefit the independents,where people say you know what,
no Republicans, no Democrats,let's just get somebody that's
(23:24):
not affiliate?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, I think that depends on whether or not
Republicans choose to nominatesomebody that's focused on
issues, or whether or not theychoose to nominate somebody
that's only focused on the otherside or soundbites.
I mean, we have to havesomebody that truly understands
issues.
But ultimately, I believe MikeDuggan will be a net positive
for Republicans.
And let me be clear about thisthe mayor and I we worked very
well together when I was speaker.
There were a couple issues thatwe worked, you know, side by
(23:51):
side, trying to get across thefinish line.
I consider him a friend.
From time to time we talk, butwe have to be honest with
ourselves, and I think he needsto be honest as well.
He's not an independent.
Have to be honest withourselves, and I think he needs
to be honest as well.
He's not an independent, he's aDemocrat.
I know he's running as anindependent, but if somebody
were to really and I think themedia is just now starting to do
this ask him where do youdiffer from Democrats?
(24:13):
His answer is I don't hateDonald Trump.
That's not a political issue.
That just makes you a decentperson because you don't hate
the president.
Ok, so I think that it's adifferentiator.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, so I think I mean it's just.
It's odd that everybodyunderstands what that means.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
But I think, I think, ultimately, when voters really
start to hone in on this raceand they really start to get
educated about the issues andthey see, my goodness, we've got
one Republican running againstessentially two Democrats, I
think that is going to benefitthe Republican, but again, it's
got to be a Republican that'sout there talking about issues.
(24:48):
If not, then you're going tosee Joslyn Benson become the
next governor of the state.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
See?
Well, let's get into some ofthe policy areas.
We've mentioned housing.
We talked a little bit abouteducation.
What about taxation?
There's been proposals from inthe current administration let's
raise the income tax, let'smake it.
You know other than one rate.
We have one candidate in therace saying let's just do away
with the income tax.
Lots of states don't have astate income tax.
(25:13):
I don't know how many there are, but Tennessee, florida, texas,
washington, new Hampshire,nevada, all very high growth
states, and you know people cando that arithmetic.
If four and a half percent isnot coming out of four and a
quarter percent is not comingout of your paycheck, it's money
in your pocket.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Absolutely so in.
You know, as we were we werementioning before we went on
went on camera.
I love doing these types ofinterviews because we can really
get into the detail in thepolicy.
Ok, so you know, first let'slook at the budget.
So, when I left the legislaturein 2018, the state budget was
$59 billion.
This next budget that's goingto ultimately get passed is
(25:54):
likely going to be somewherearound 83 billion.
Okay, so there is no doubt thatthe budget has grown much, you
know, much quicker than people'spocketbooks.
Ok, so I say the people of thestate deserve a tax cut.
Ok, but I think we need to sitdown and we need to have a
serious conversation about taxreform overall.
(26:14):
Ok.
So the income tax when you lookat the top 10 growth states in
this country, five of the top 10either have a substantially
lower income tax than Michiganor they have no income tax at
all.
I believe Michigan ought tostrive to be a zero income tax
state.
I truly do.
Okay, but the number one issuethat I hear about when I'm out
(26:37):
there on the campaign trail it'snot just the number one tax
issue, it is the number oneissue right now is property
taxes.
People feel like they aregetting taxed out of their homes
.
So we've got to do somethingwith property tax relief in the
state again.
And you know you look at if youreally want the state to grow,
if you want our young kids tomove here, you want them to stay
(26:57):
here.
If they're going to buy a homein 60, 70, 80% of their income
is going to be tied up in amortgage and property taxes.
Think of the stress that thatputs on their marriage.
No more date nights, no morevacations.
But you know what?
Now they're second guessingwhether or not they can start a
family.
You look at seniors andretirees that don't know if
they're going to be able to stayin their forever home or they
(27:19):
might want to sell their home.
But if they buy something evensmaller, they're not going to be
able to afford the propertytaxes because that property tax
cap is going to be lifted.
So property taxes, we need to dosomething there as well.
But you know what?
Even with our gas tax, I mean,did you know?
Michigan is one of a few stateswhere we collect a sales tax at
the pump, and I think we're theonly state that that sales tax
(27:41):
does not go directly to roads.
So what does that mean?
A billion dollars per year iscollected at the pump and it
does not go to roads.
Okay, we've got to do somethingabout that as well.
Rich, every cent collected atthe pump ought to go into roads.
So, again going back to youroriginal question, I think we
need tax reform overall.
Certainly, the citizens of thestate need a tax cut, but I
(28:04):
think we need comprehensive taxreform overall to make us more
competitive.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I agree.
People want to get value fortheir money, and you know we're
sitting here in Ann Arbor, whichhas very high taxes, and the
city of Ann Arbor.
Though, they deliver somepretty good services.
The first responders arewell-trained and well-equipped.
Parks are clean.
Yeah, it's expensive, but youcan see what you get for it.
It doesn't go into the vortexin Lansing.
(28:30):
So, as we talk aboutaffordability, health care and
health insurance and theMedicaid reforms coming through,
how do we make Michigan moreaffordable and, in particular,
health care and health insurance?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah, so I mean, I think there are several things
that we can do on the healthcare front.
Ok, so Michigan really needs toexpand and use, in my opinion,
telehealth.
Ok, especially telehealth.
Ok, I mean, this is the world,this is the age that we live in.
Okay, so I'll give you, I'llgive an example.
So a few years ago, with theCOVID funds, obviously, the kids
(29:09):
in our school that had beenlocked out of their schools, you
know, you saw mental healthissues go up exponentially.
Okay, so the legislature Ithink they appropriated $800
million.
It was gonna be a little over$200 million over the course of
four years.
That money is gone and thatmoney was appropriated to help
kids with those facing mentalhealth issues.
(29:30):
Okay, so the money was gone.
A study was put in place and theexperts found that, hey, for us
to put a counselor into everyschool building across the state
would cost the state ofMichigan $600 million.
Number one, we don't have thatmoney.
But, number two, if we did havethat money, we don't have
enough counselors across thestate to even have to put in
(29:52):
each building.
So what do you look at?
And I started looking at thisand I started talking to some
companies that offer tele-mentalhealth.
So basically, the kid can signup, they can go online, there's
an app and they can basicallyget the services that they need
from somebody you know talkingto them on the internet or
talking to them through an appon their phone.
What would you think, so, toput a counselor in every room or
(30:12):
every school building?
$600 million.
What would you think that thesecompanies could provide
tele-mental health services toevery single teenager across the
state for $35 million?
$6 million, six million dollarsoh my, one percent of the cost.
And you see those savings intelehealth as well, and that
would really help.
Number one, in rural areas,where they can't get to, you
(30:34):
know you can't get to, you know,certain health experts or it's
tough to get to, you know, ahospital or a clinic.
But also that really helps ourelderly or those with
disabilities who really can'tjump, you know, get in the car
and get to where they need to go.
So we really need to expandtelehealth.
Certificate of need.
That is a big issue and Ididn't realize what a big issue
it was until I started workingwith a company that wanted to
(30:57):
bring a revolutionary cancertreatment here to the state and
unfortunately they were not ableto utilize the equipment that
they had purchased, which costthem $16 million, because of the
certificate of need laws.
Now, thankfully, we were ableto get some reform done that
allowed them to bring thatrevolutionary cancer treatment
here.
But why is it that we shouldhave all these burdens?
(31:19):
We really need to do somethingwith our certificate of need
laws as well.
But also, I mean I know thereare a lot of experts out there
that are into value-based care.
So basically what that says ishey, we're going to pay doctors
more money for outcomes.
If they have better outcomes,we're going to pay them and,
frankly, if they don't, we'renot going to Value-based care.
I believe is a big one.
But you know, health care isgoing to be a big issue moving
(31:41):
forward.
I mean, this state is going toexperience a primary care
physician shortage 800 primarycare physicians short within the
next 10 years.
Already, one third of thecounties across this state are
what they deem maternity deserts, which means they don't even
have an OBGYN available todeliver babies.
I mean, health, healthcare is abig issue facing the state and
(32:03):
that's something we're going tohave to focus on as well.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
There's a proposal, as I know, to let a health
practitioner work at the top oftheir license so that they can
do more, and telehealth.
As long as people can have aprivate area to get the services
and have the connectivity and adevice, it makes a lot more
sense.
And, you know, even if you're aworking person, you don't have
to take time off from work.
(32:26):
Prior to Medicare in my privateinsurance, telehealth handled a
lot of primary care.
It was very efficient, so we'regoing to be on in 30 seconds.
Didn't have to stop anything.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
And they also too and I, you know let me make this
clear about the, you know, theteenagers or those in school,
because I had this questioncomes up often with tele-mental
health services is well, there'dhave to be parental consent?
Right?
The answer to that is yes, youknow, we're certainly not
promoting anything that wouldallow you know a child to sign
up and start receivingcounseling or some type of
(32:59):
health care without parentalconsent If they're not an adult.
The parent would have to bepart of that process.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Well, you know, we've talked a little bit about right
to work.
We've talked about some of theeducation and foundational.
We're in this era right nowwhere DEI seems to be fading,
yet affirmative action haslifted people from minorities,
given them an opportunity toparticipate in the economy.
What would be ahead for thestate of Michigan on those very
(33:26):
sensitive social politicalissues?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Well, I mean, frankly , you know, affirmative action,
the citizens.
They enshrined into theConstitution I believe it was
back in 2006, and saiddiscrimination is wrong.
We don't care what your coloris, we don't care what your
gender is, discrimination iswrong, period.
And I am a strong opponent of,you know, affirmative action.
(33:50):
I actually, you know, we'rehere in Ann Arbor.
I was a student at theUniversity of Michigan at the
height of the affirmative actionfight and I'll tell you there's
two major reasons why I'mopposed to the use of
affirmative action.
Number one, obviously I thinkpeople ought to be, you know,
decisions ought to be made basedon merit, not on the color of
somebody's skin.
But also, I don't think and Iand I had this, you know, I had
(34:12):
this, uh, if you want to say,very spirited conversation with
a graduate student instructor ofmine.
I said the number one reasonwhy I oppose affirmative action
I do not believe it's fair topeople of color.
And I remember meeting this manand I think he had gotten his
undergraduate degree fromharvard.
He was one of the smartestpeople I'd ever met.
(34:34):
This guy was more thanqualified to be here studying
and getting his phd from theuniversity of michigan.
But the problem is because ofthe color of his PhD from the
University of Michigan, but theproblem is because of the color
of his skin for the rest of hislife.
People are going to look at himwhen he applies to a job and
say, oh, he made it into Harvardand he made it into the
University of Michigan becauseof the color of his skin.
That is wrong.
(34:55):
Nobody should ever have thattype of asterisk on their name
because of the color of theirskin.
So I am a strong you know againopponent of the use of
affirmative action.
Number one, because peopleought to be judged based on
their merit.
But number two nobody, becauseof the color of their skin,
ought to be judged movingforward and have people think
that they got into a universitybecause of affirmative action.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So I understand where you're saying the education.
Lift everybody up, give themthe opportunity.
Now we have a lot ofenvironmental things, like in
the cities.
We have some beautiful cities.
Detroit is on a really nicetrack right now.
Things aren't perfect, but howdo we handle the city issues
that we see?
We've got the National Guardmoving into cities across the
(35:39):
country.
We have unsafe streets.
You know more incidents ofindustrial pollutants.
When you think about the citiesin our state, anything in
particular about them that you'dbe interested in as a governor?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, let me give you a specific example, and this is
an issue I cannot believe.
Over the last five or six yearswe have dropped the ball on.
Okay.
So environmental issues come upquite often and I'm a firm
believer.
Hey, let's fix the problems.
Let's fix the issues that wecan really fix.
Prime example the Rouge Riverhere in southeast Michigan.
It flows through Dearborn, itflows through Detroit and for
(36:15):
nearly 60 years there has been aproblem of industrial
pollutants in that river and infact they have even told the
citizens of Dearborn, the cityof Detroit, if you catch a fish
out of that river, do not eat itbecause it's going to be
contaminated.
Why shouldn't the citizens ofDetroit or the citizens of
Dearborn be able to fish in theRouge River, just like a citizen
(36:39):
in northern Michigan?
Can, you know, fish in one oftheir rivers?
Well, under the infrastructureplan that Joe Biden signed into
law a few years ago, there wasmoney set aside for Great Lakes
restoration and basically it wasa two to one match and what
experts said was it would costabout $800 million to fix a
(37:00):
60-year problem.
So basically the feds werewilling to cover two-thirds of
that cost.
There was no legislator in towntalking about it.
The governor wasn't talkingabout it.
Now I go back to the Detroitbankruptcy settlement and what
Rick Snyder did with thefoundations, what he did with
the local governments, what hedid with the unions.
Could you imagine if we'd had agovernor in place that would
(37:23):
have gone to the mayor ofDetroit, the mayor of Dearborn,
and gone to the head of allthese foundations and said
listen, we've got a problem andwe've got one opportunity to fix
it.
The federal funds are set there.
We need to come up with betweentwo and $300 million.
Mr So-and-so from Foundation X,would you be willing to put
money into a pot and help us dothis?
I will guarantee you that theywould, to ensure that people in
(37:46):
Detroit and people in Dearborncould utilize that river.
It never happened.
So these are the types ofissues that I'm looking forward
to going in there and fixing,the issues that have been on our
plate for 60 years thatnobody's talking about.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Well, look as a kid that crossed the Rouge River
many times on a log and actuallyfell in a few times not a
pleasant experience.
I would have been real behindthat, because it was always
considered dangerous andpolluted and it does need to be
cleaned up.
And I know there's some effortsgoing on in certain communities
, but not enough.
But that's a great example ofan asset that we have here and
I've never heard anybody posethe question yeah, why is it?
(38:24):
We can fish in Manistee, but wecan't fish in Westland.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
That doesn't make sense and, frankly, if we care
about civil rights and socialjustice, to ask the question
very pointedly why isn't it thatpeople of color in southeast
Michigan can't utilize theirfresh water the same way people
in northern Michigan can?
They should be able to andagain, that was a complete, in
(38:50):
my opinion, missed opportunity.
That is something that weshould have jumped on.
Those are the types of issuesthat the next governor of the
state needs to start focusing onfixing the issues that we can
resolve.
But it's going to takepolitical will and actually
putting our heads together toget it done and working together
.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Look as a former prosecutor and potentially our
next governor, when you look atsome of the things around
policing and prosecution andcashless bail and we've just had
recent tragedies of people thatobviously needed to be
restricted before they did moreharm and they're creating
multiple tragedies.
What could the governor do?
(39:27):
Is the government empowered atall to do anything in terms of
some of these policies?
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Well, absolutely, and I'll come to that in just a
moment.
Let me.
Let me take a step back, forfor just a moment.
I mean, you look at my trackrecord when I was speaker of the
House.
Okay, when I came in so I was aprosecutor I was tough on crime
.
I'm still tough on crime, butyou also have to be smart.
When I came to the legislature,when I was a prosecutor, I saw
it used to be in the state ofMichigan that if somebody had a
(39:54):
felony and a misdemeanor ontheir record, they could no
longer get them expunged becausethey had two convictions.
And I looked at that and I saidthat is crazy.
If we're going to have peopleout there, they're not going to
be in jail, they're not going tobe in prison, they need to be
able to get a job.
We need to expand expungementsa little bit.
So I was the one thatintroduced legislation to expand
expungements in the state ofMichigan.
I mentioned driverresponsibility fees.
(40:15):
We had a situation where,because of driver responsibility
fees, 350,000 people in thisstate, most of them the working
poor, could not lawfully obtaina driver's license, 75,000 of
them in the city of Detroit.
I fought like crazy and madecertain that we not only got rid
(40:36):
of those fees but we grantedthose 350,000 people amnesty and
gave them their driver'slicenses back immediately.
I was a huge proponent of theindigent defense reform.
I mean, I believe that ifyou're going to prosecute
somebody, they need to haveadequate counsel, but we also
need a governor that's going tostand with law enforcement and,
(40:56):
as you mentioned, cashless bail.
I mean, look what it's done toCalifornia, look what it did to
New York, and I talked to agroup of police officers today
and I told them, if I'm thestate's next governor, we're
going to send a clear message onday one.
If any type of bail reform hitsmy desk, it's going to be
vetoed immediately.
If there's any type of reformthat's going to get rid of your
qualified immunity so that youcan't do your job, it is going
(41:18):
to be vetoed immediately.
But you know what?
If we also have an attorneygeneral or we have prosecutors
that are prosecuting policeofficers that are simply out
there doing their jobs, they'regoing to have a governor that's
going to stand with them andtell them they're going to get a
pardon immediately if somethinggoes wrong.
In that case, the bottom lineis this Morale is down with law
(41:39):
enforcement.
Half of the police chiefsacross the state have said they
do not have enough policeofficers to provide basic
services.
The same with our sheriffs, thesame with our prosecutors.
We've got to change the culturein the state and we need a
governor that's going to standwith them.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Mr Speaker, the Driver Responsibility Act.
What does that do?
Is there a short definition inlay terms?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (42:04):
So it's hard to you know, I guess, give a quick
explanation.
But essentially what hadhappened?
It was nothing more than amoney grab.
So in the early 2000s the statewas facing a government
shutdown and this was abipartisan mess up.
You had a Democratic governor,you had a Republican legislature
and they were trying to getmoney anywhere that they could.
(42:24):
And essentially some personcame up with this grand idea
we're going to take 20 or 25moving violations.
For one of those violations,we're not only going to fine you
in court, but we're also goingto send notice to the Secretary
of State's office and talk aboutbureaucracy, who then has to
(42:46):
send notice to the Department ofTreasury to send you a bill for
$1,000 and say if you don't paythe state $1,000, we're going
to deem you a bad driver.
If you don't pay that $1,000,we're going to revoke your
driver's license.
The best example I could tellyou is this one no proof of
insurance.
So somebody gets pulled overfor speeding.
Police officer walks up thevehicle's insured.
(43:07):
But hey, they've got a glovebox with a bunch of papers and
they say where's your insurance?
And they can't provide proof.
They're nervous, what have you?
And the police officer writesthem up for no proof of
insurance.
Okay, they go to the courtroom.
They pay their civil fine $200,$300.
They go home.
Three, four months later, thestate of Michigan sends them a
bill and says well, because youcouldn't provide a proof of
insurance, we're deeming you abad driver and now you've got to
(43:30):
pay us a thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Amazing Right, and a check for a thousand dollars
makes me a good driver, so youtake.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
And again it really impacted the working poor.
I mean, you take somebodythat's making, you know, 13, 14,
$15 an hour, at the timeprobably $10 an hour.
They could not afford $1,000.
So I would go into misdemeanorpretrials when I was a
prosecutor and we would havedozens of these young men and
women out the door saying listen, sir, I have no hope of ever
getting a driver's license back.
Please just hold me responsiblefor the next one.
(43:59):
Let license back.
Please just hold me responsiblefor the next one.
Let me go on my way.
I'm just going to drive withouta driver's license.
Not that that was wrong, and youknow Governor Snyder and I we
kind of had to go to battle onthis one because you know he was
a huge proponent of the skilledtrades and bringing jobs to
Michigan and I was with him.
But I said, governor, if we aregoing to bring more skilled
trades here, we've got to makecertain these people can legally
drive there.
(44:19):
Let's get rid of these driverresponsibility fees.
Let's give these people amnesty, let's give them a driver's
license back, let's give themhope.
And I often say on the campaigntrail imagine a conservative
former speaker that used torepresent mid-Michigan going
into Detroit.
There were 75,000 drivers thatdid not have a driver's license.
Imagine going and campaigningin Detroit saying, hey, I was
(44:42):
the one that fought to give youyour driver's license back.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
It would be a powerful message and there's a
lot of people running from WayneCounty, so, absolutely, you've
got to go there.
Mr Speaker, this has been avery fascinating conversation
and we could probably talk herefor another several hours.
There's a lot going on in thestate.
Is there anything that wedidn't talk about that we should
discuss?
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Yeah.
So you know I've talked aboutthe positive vision, the
positive message.
I've talked about, you know, mytime as a prosecutor and I
often tell this story.
So people know about me, theyunderstand how I view the world
and how I'm going to conductmyself on this campaign.
I'm often asked the questionwith people here that I was a
prosecutor hey, what was thebiggest case you ever worked on
(45:26):
and how many years did thatperson go to prison for?
And I tell them we had severalof those.
But the biggest and theproudest case that I ever worked
on wasn't a case where we putsomebody in prison.
It was one where we kept ayoung man out.
And I showed up to this courthearing one day and this young
man he was 17 years old, he'dbeen charged as an adult with
three 10-year felonies assaultwith intent to do great bodily
harm, less than murder.
He shot these three young menat a bus stop in the north end
(45:47):
of Flint.
I showed up to this courthearing and his defense attorney
said Tom, he said, do me afavor, I want you to go back
into the holding cell and I wantyou to spend some time with
this young man.
Come back and let me know whatyou think.
I sat there for over an hour.
This young man, orange jumpsuit, just sobbing.
He said sir.
He said I don't know what to do.
He said everything in thatpolice report is 100% accurate.
(46:11):
But what's not in there is thiswhat I did that day was in
self-defense.
These three men attacked me.
I thought they were going tokill me and I shot them.
And it's three people's word onone I'm going to go to prison
for 10 years.
My life is going to be ruinedand I don't know what to do.
And for some reason there wasjust something in my heart that
day, I believe this young man.
We went out, we got anadjournment.
(46:33):
My officer in charge wasn'thappy about it because he was
overworked.
But him I said Rod, go to thatbus stop and I need you to
determine whether or not therewas surveillance that day.
About four hours later he cameback holding this DVD.
We popped it in and everythingthat that young man said was
100% accurate and it was inself-defense.
Within an hour we got him outof jail.
(46:55):
We had the other three arrestedfor falsifying a police report.
I tell that story because ofthis as I travel the state.
There are a lot of people thatare much like that young man.
They feel like their governmentis coming down upon them.
They feel like, no matter howbig their pay raise is, it can't
keep up with their bills.
They don't feel like their kidsare being educated and they
just want somebody to take thetime to listen to them and then
(47:18):
identify the problem and go outthere with real solutions,
working together as a team toget the job done.
That's what we did that day forthat young man and that's
exactly what I'm going to do asthe state's next governor.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Any final closing thought.
For the voters of Michigan andthe listeners, the readers and
the viewers of the Common Bridge, that's a great.
I love that story.
That's justice done.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
I would just I would love for them to go to our
website, tom4michigancom, andit's F-O-R, not the number four.
So, tom4michigancom, Take alook.
I mean look at our issues page.
I mean, we really put meat onthe bone.
This campaign is about solvingproblems.
They're not going to go to ourwebsite and just see a bunch of
talking points.
They're going to see realsolutions to the problems that
(48:01):
Michigan faces.
That's what we're going to doover the next several months.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
We've been talking today with Tom Leonard.
He is a candidate for theRepublican nomination for the
office of governor in this greatstate of Michigan.
The primary comes next year, asdoes the general election.
Michigan again a very importantstate for the nation, very
important state forinternational relationships.
(48:24):
And with our guest, tom Leonard, this is your host, rich Helpe
signing off on the Common Bridge.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Thanks for joining us on the Common Bridge.
Subscribe to the Common Bridgeon Substackcom or use their
Substack app, where you can findmore interviews, columns,
videos and nonpartisandiscussions of the day.
Just search for the CommonBridge.
You can also find the CommonBridge on Mission Control Radio
on your RadioGarden app.
Welcome to this episode of Season 6 of the
Common Bridge, where policy andcurrent events are discussed in
a fiercely nonpartisan manner.
The host, richard Helpe, is aphilanthropist, entrepreneur and
political analyst who hasreached over 5 million listeners
, viewers and readers around theworld.
With our surging growth inaudience and subscriptions, the
Common Bridge continues toexpand its reach.
(00:22):
The show is available on theSubstack website and the
Substack app Simply search forthe Common Bridge continues to
expand its reach.
The show is available on theSubstack website and the
Substack app Simply search forthe Common Bridge.
You can also find us on YouTubeand wherever you get your
podcasts.
The Common Bridge draws guestsand audiences from around the
political spectrum and we inviteyou to become a free or paid
subscriber on your favoritemedium.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hello, welcome to the Common Bridge.
I'm your host, rich Helpe, andwe're going to continue today by
interviewing the candidates forthe governor of the great state
of Michigan, and today we'vegot with us Mr Tom Leonard.
Tom, welcome to the CommonBridge, very happy to have you.
Yeah, thank you, rich Glad tobe here.
Now listen.
Michigan is a very importantstate.
(01:05):
If you don't live here, ifyou're not a voter, this is
important.
Michigan is on an internationalborder.
We do a lot of trade withCanada and throughout the world.
We are sitting at the hub oftransportation centers.
We've got the largestfreshwater reserves in the world
, there's copper up north andthere's a great future ahead if
(01:28):
we play it right.
And we've all seen states thathaven't played it right.
So running for governor todayTom Leonard.
It's tomformichigancom.
He was born in Montrose, nearFlint, michigan.
His first legal position he wasa clerk at Genesee County and
he's been working in a number oflegislative areas, including
(01:49):
mental health, reforming theteacher's pension system and the
first leader to passconstitutional carry.
He has been elected as a staterepresentative for Clinton and
Gratiot counties and his thirdterm he was the unanimous
selection for the Speaker of theHouse.
Speaker.
Welcome to the Common Bridge.
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
What other parts of your bio might be interesting to
the listeners, readers andviewers of the Common Bridge?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, probably, you know the big one is in terms of
career.
I was a prosecutor in Flint forthree years and I tell people
that was still the greatest jobthat I ever had.
Half my time that I was there Iwas a drug prosecutor working
with our undercover drug unitand there were many nights I
used to go on the streets withthe officers.
I'd watch them perform theirduties and again, it was just a
(02:37):
fascinating job.
But showing them that I caredenough to be out there with them
, I mean I can't tell you howmuch that meant to law
enforcement.
But most importantly, I tellpeople the greatest job that I
have is being a dad, a husbandand a dad.
And that's why, rich, that'swhy I'm doing this.
You look at the state of thestate right now.
The only state that Michiganbeat for population growth the
(02:58):
first two decades of the centurywas West Virginia.
We are 49 out of 50 forunemployment, we are bottom 10
for income growth, and thestatistics just go on.
And my biggest fear, like many,is that 10 to 15 years from now
because I know that's going tocome in a blink of an eye, my
little girl or my little boy,they're going to come to me and
they're going to say Dad, I'dlove to stay here in Michigan
(03:19):
with you and mom, butunfortunately I have to leave
for better opportunity.
I don't want that to happen.
That's why I'm doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
What do you see as some of Michigan's greatest
assets, and how would you, as agovernor, make use of these to
realize a better future for ourstate?
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Well, I mean, all you have to do is spend a few hours
traveling the state and frankly, maybe I'm a little biased, but
I don't think any other statecan compete.
I mean you mentioned we've gotthe Great Lakes here you go to
the Upper Peninsula.
I mean you cannot find a morebeautiful area.
We've got three of the greatestresearch institutions in this
country right here in the state.
(03:55):
But, most importantly, we'vegot, I believe, the best people
and the hardest working people.
This state has all theingredients that it needs for
success.
We just need the right recipe,we need the right policy.
We need leadership in thisplace that's going to put the
right policies in place so thatthe people in the state can
thrive.
That's what we need.
I joke, my wife is a Hoosierand right now Indiana is
(04:17):
thriving.
They're growing theirpopulation.
Their unemployment is less thanus.
They're growing incomes fasterthan we are.
And I often joke to her haveyou ever driven through Indiana?
I mean, indiana should never bebeating Michigan in anything.
So we just need the rightleadership and the right
policies in place.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, there's many things we need to work on as the
next governor comes in.
What are the two or threethings the next governor you or
one of the other candidates mustdo in that office?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Right.
So there are some what I callthe very basic things that we
have to do.
Ok, so right to work?
We need to bring right to workback to the state.
When you look at the top 10growth states in this country,
nine of the 10, all but Delawareare right to work states.
When Michigan's right to worklaw was repealed two years ago,
michigan was mid-pack forunemployment.
(05:07):
We were one-tenth of onepercent off the national average
.
Now we are 49 out of 50.
That's not a coincidence.
Michigan needs to be aright-to-work state again.
We need regulatory reform inthis state.
I mean Metro Detroit is theeighth worst area in the entire
country to build homes.
Affordable housing is an issuehere in this state.
(05:28):
I mean just in the past fiveyears, rent is up 40%.
The average housing cost is up$100,000.
We need regulatory reform.
But you know what?
We also need licensure reform.
I have an uncle Married my aunt.
He moved here several monthsago.
He was a journeyman electricianin South Carolina for over 20
years.
When he moved here it took himfour months to get a job because
(05:52):
of all the hoops and the teststhat he had to take and
everything he had to jumpthrough to get a job.
This ought to be the easieststate in the entire country to
find a job If you were licensedin another state.
We've got a skilled tradescrisis here.
We've got an affordable housingcrisis.
Let's get people here.
Let's let them work.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That sounds logical to me.
And why would you have all thisbroad field of candidates?
Why would you be the bestgovernor to guide this state?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So you know a history of success and I'll go back to
that in just a minute.
But you know, janelle and I andJanelle's my lovely bride we
spent and I say we because thisis a team effort.
No one person can do it alone.
And if anybody says I can do italone, they're not being
truthful to you and they're notbeing truthful to themselves.
So we spent a lot of timethinking, praying about this and
(06:37):
I did a lot of traveling acrossthe state just listening to
people and what I found was isthere really wasn't a candidate
out there that was reallytalking about issues and trying
to identify problems with realsolutions.
Everything was about how badGretchen Whitmer is or how bad
Jocelyn Benson is and frankly,that is not what the people of
the state are looking for.
(06:58):
They are looking for a problemsolver.
So that's number one.
But number two, a history ofsuccess, I mean when I came into
the legislature.
I'll give you just a coupleexamples.
When I came into the legislaturemy first term preliminary
examination reform that's thefirst step in the criminal
justice process.
When I was a prosecutor, I sawwhat a disaster this was.
I saw how it was takingofficers off the streets, but I
(07:20):
saw how it was re-victimizingvictims every single day and I
said we've got to get somethingdone with this process.
Everybody told me, tom, we'vetried for decades to do
something.
We can't get it done.
I started working on it and Irealized within just a few short
weeks no legislator had evertaken the District Court Judges
Association and the ProsecutorsAssociation, put them in a room
(07:41):
and had them talk about it.
We passed that legislationalmost unanimously.
We got it done.
Driver responsibility fees thelegislature had tried on those
for years to eliminate and getrid of those.
I made it a top priority ofmine.
We got it done.
Teacher pension reform the samething.
So I would say look at my pasttrack record a history of
(08:01):
success.
That's why I know I'll besuccessful as the state's next
governor.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Next year when we elect a new governor 2026,
children are going to be born in2026.
They'll graduate high school in2044.
What kind of future should theyexpect?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, if we don't turn this thing around, they're
going to expect another futurein another state.
That's what's going to happen.
So you mentioned our children.
One of the really big issuesthat we are focused on and we
came right out of the gate, andI think every politician I don't
care if it's Republican,democrat, independent better be
talking about this is theeducation crisis that this state
(08:42):
is facing, especially withtheir grade reading.
Right now, only 25% of thefourth graders in this state can
read at a proficient level 5%in the city of Flint, 11% in the
city of Detroit.
And I can tell you, rach, as aformer prosecutor, if a kid
can't read, if they drop out ofschool because they're
(09:02):
illiterate, you've basicallycreated a pipeline to a welfare
check or a prison cell.
Why would any company, whywould any business want to come
here or expand here if they knowthat our children are not going
to be able to read and we'renot going to have a base that's
educated?
So that's a big one when itcomes to our children.
Third grade reading is one ofthe biggest issues that we're
focused on right now.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Third, grade reading is one of the biggest issues
that we're focused on right now,and how would we as a state go
about improving the scores forthe third grader so that child
born next year, in 2026 going tothird grade in 2033, roughly
what can be done during thatfirst term of a new governor
that would make a difference forthat?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
third grader.
So I say look no further thanthe Mississippi miracle.
And I love this example becauseMississippi is one of the
poorest states in the country.
They spend far less oneducation than we do and yet 10
years ago they were 49 out of 50for third grade reading scores
and because of the right reformsthey are now top 10 in the
(10:01):
country.
That's why it's deemed theMississippi miracle.
So what did they do?
First things first, earlyassessment.
So kindergarten first, second,third grade, each of the
children.
They are assessed three times ayear so they can get their
hands around and determine whichkids are struggling.
Then, once they identify whothose kids are, they invested
into high quality tutors to putthem in the classrooms and get
(10:24):
these children help, and thathas proven to be the most
effective.
I mean, listen, some of theseteachers.
They are teaching in classroomsright now with 25, 30 kids.
These teachers cannot be askedto do this alone.
They need that help in theirclassroom high quality,
certified, qualified tutors inthose classrooms.
Third, they took the bold stepand they said you know what?
(10:44):
Qualified tutors in thoseclassrooms.
Third, they took the bold stepand they said you know what?
We can no longer just pass achild along because we want to
or we think it's the right thingto do.
If they're not proficient, wehave to hold them back.
They took that bold step.
Michigan needs to do the samething.
But probably even mostimportantly, they empowered
parents in this process.
They made certain that therewas a system in place of support
.
They made certain there wascommunication.
(11:06):
They made certain that if thechild had to go to summer school
, that there'd be transportationavailable.
Again, mississippi reallyfocused on third grade reading,
and the last thing I would sayis this We've got an advantage.
I think that Mississippi didnot have Governor Whitmer and I
had been telling Republicansacross the board one issue I
think they really could havecome to the table and supported
her on was universal earlychildhood development.
(11:28):
Okay, universal pre-K, but thatuniversal pre-K is not focused
on third grade reading, and Ithink what we need to do is make
certain that that money andthose investments go into the
science of reading, phonics.
We need to make certain thatwe're preparing those kids at a
young age so that when they getto the third grade they can read
(11:49):
and then we can advance them tothe fourth grade.
And the bottom line is thisChildren spend the first few
years of their life learning toread, and then they read to
learn.
If they can't read to learn,they're going to be damned
through the rest of theireducation career.
Third-grade reading, I believe,is the foundation.
It's what we've got to focus on.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well, I'd sure like to see that come about, and many
of the candidates have talkedabout education as being part of
our declining population andthat we should have priorities
in place to make us a growthstate again.
So we've got birth ratesfalling, out-migration of
college educated which issurprising to me, given
everything here Retirees goingto the Sun Belt, going to get a
(12:28):
little bit of that, and thenimmigrant populations that maybe
we're not seeking.
Besides education, what shouldwe be thinking about in terms of
population growth?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, I mean, well, we've hit a few of them.
I mean, you know, I'm a firmbeliever that you know, in
addition to education,empowering workers and we've
discussed a couple of them Rightto work I mean right to work,
in my opinion, is a it's.
It's a reform that empowersworkers.
It forces unions to beresponsive to the workers that
they're supposed to berepresenting.
(12:59):
This regulatory reform that youknow, that I already mentioned,
but also, you know, thelicensure reform.
I don't know why we don't becomea universal reciprocity state.
There's only a few that do that.
We would have such an advantageif we would do that.
But also in our educationsystem, we need much more
flexibility.
I mean, you look at our meritcurriculum right now.
(13:19):
I think one error that we havemade as a state is we've
essentially told every kidunless you go to a university,
you can't be successful.
Listen, that's hogwash.
I mean, I've met with skilledtrade shops.
I've met with people in theskilled trades that are saying,
listen, 22, 23-year-old kids cancome out, they can make $70,000
(13:40):
, $80,000 a year and have nocollege debt.
And these are good, clean jobs.
If a child is a junior or asenior in high school, why force
them to take another math class, or why force them to take
another foreign language course?
Let's create more flexibility.
Let's let them go into thetrades if that's what they
choose to do.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, look, I'd sure like to be able to get a plumber
, an electrician, carpenter whenthey're needed.
But one of the things when Ithink about that type of trade
school education, which I'm verymuch in favor of okay, grew up
in a blue-collar place, we usedto have great middle-class
standards of living for doingthose skilled jobs, and as
boomer retirees we're going toneed more of that.
All right, because we can't doour stuff safely anymore.
(14:20):
All right, we've got to be alittle more careful.
But I've started looking intowhat some of the classifications
are for government service, andoftentimes it's a degree here,
a degree there, and I'm justwondering if we're
disadvantaging people if we alsodon't get after the civil
service classifications.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Well, I mean, listen, when you look at the civil
service classifications, I liketo tell people in Michigan there
are five branches of government.
You've got the executive, thejudicial, you've got the
legislative and then you've gotcivil service and higher ed.
You know, civil in the trash orthey're not allowed to.
You know, take something to theoffice next to them because
their classification says theycan't, they're going to get
(14:59):
grieved.
I mean, that is not efficient.
But you know, that goes to oneof the other issues that we are
(15:20):
talking about as well isgovernment accountability and
completely changing the culturein Lansing.
Okay, so I had somebodyapproach me a few days ago or,
I'm sorry, a few weeks ago, andthey said, listen, I am a one
issue voter.
I said, okay, what is that?
And they said I am a stateworker and I want to know, if
you get elected governor, whencan I expect to go back to the
(15:43):
office?
And my response was tomorrow.
And they kind of looked at melike shocked and I said and let
me tell you what else we'regoing to do when you go back to
the office.
We're going to program yourphone such that on the fourth
ring, if it's not answered, thatcall goes directly to the
department director's cell phone.
I said we have to change theculture in Lansing, but it's not
just within civil service.
(16:03):
I mean, we've talked aboutaffordable housing.
Ok, let me give you an examplewith the legislature.
So in November, there were twobills that were introduced.
One was going to put asubstantial burden on
electricians.
The other one was going to dothe same thing to plumbers.
Ok, these bills were navigatingthrough the process for several
weeks and at the last minute,the plumbing bill advanced.
(16:26):
It went to the governor's desk,she signed it, and the one
involving electricians it died.
And I often ask the question doyou know why?
And people are like, no, Idon't.
And I say because theenvironmentalists came in at the
last minute and they said ifyou pass this bill that will
impose a burden on electricians,this bill that will impose a
(16:47):
burden on electricians, we willno longer be able to build
thousands of acres of solarpanels across this state.
Now, let that sink in for justa moment.
We have an affordable housingcrisis in this state and there
are legislators that said,essentially, that day, we care
more about building thousands ofacres of solar panels than we
do building affordable housingfor the people of the state that
(17:07):
can't afford it.
That is a culture we have gotto change in Lansing.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yes, and while I also saw that Consumers Power just
sold their 13 hydroelectricplants to private equity with
the idea that the private equityis going to sell the power back
to Consumers Power and I don'tknow much about that, other than
that transaction did occur andhopefully there's some
investment there.
But you mentioned GovernorWhitmer and you know we are in a
(17:32):
political world, so thepolitical landscape, how do you
think her legacy, you know, orperformance in office is going
to play in next year's race?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
The question is going to be how checked in is she?
I mean, listen, I like toremain positive, I like to look
forward because I know that'swhat the people of the state
expect.
Okay, but we also have to behonest.
I mean, as we sit here, inalmost mid-September, we are
facing a government shutdown andthe governor is out of the
(18:02):
country.
She needs to be in Lansingevery day, forcing some type of
budget deal.
So the question is going to bewhat is her legacy going to be?
Is she going to be checked in,you know, over this last year?
I don't know.
I think that's the dilemma thatshe faces right now.
Is she going to be known as thegovernor that checked out in
her last two years?
For her sake, I hope not, andfor the sake of the state, I
(18:25):
hope not.
But that's what it's lookinglike at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And that's going to cast a shadow over this whole
race.
If people are going to runagainst that or can't get out
from behind those coattails- itwill, but you know earlier.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Going back to your question about what separates us
, I mean, the one thing I wantto make clear is, you know we
have really been focused on apositive vision for this state.
I like to tell people I call itthe Dan Campbell approach.
Okay, so when, dan Campbell,you're going to bite someone's
knee, ken, no, we're not goingto do that, but when he?
But you know I'm in favor ofthat.
Well, you know, and sometimesthat might be necessary, but the
(19:01):
bottom line is this when hebecame coach of the Lions and he
took that stage of that firstpress conference, he didn't
focus on four decades of failure, he didn't cast blame, he
didn't point the finger, he justsaid we've got a problem here
and with a lot of grit, a lot ofdetermination and a positive
vision in working together,we're going to turn this thing
around.
We can do the same thing withthat same message here in the
(19:24):
state.
It's just simply going to takethe right leadership and that's
what we're doing.
We're taking the Dan Campbellapproach Every single day.
We're focused on issues.
I tell my fellow Republicanssometimes I go and I speak at
events where it's onlyRepublicans and they want you to
throw them the red meat.
They want you to just simplytalk about Gretchen Whitmer, or
they want you to talk aboutJoslyn Benson.
(19:46):
And what I tell them is this Isay here's some tough talk.
I said if we learned anythingfrom November, when a party is
void of ideas, when a party isvoid of a vision and all they
are focused on is hatred of oneperson, they lose.
The same thing will happen toRepublicans if our only focus is
Gretchen Whitmer or JoslynBenson.
We've got to be focused onsolving problems with a positive
(20:08):
solution.
That's what we're going to doover the next several months.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And I think that's really interesting because we do
have President Trump and itwill be a midterm election how
does President Trump's policies,his popularity, his
polarization play into that 2026run for governor?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So I think, as long as this president continues to
deliver on the promises that hemade on the campaign trail, I
believe we will be just fine.
So I just saw a ratings pollcome out this morning and I
believe he was at 46 or 47percent approval.
That would be in the state ofMichigan, ok, and 18, when
Republicans had a very, verytough environment.
(20:48):
He was floating between high30s and low 40s.
Ok, if he's at 46, 47 or he'sclose to 50, we can have a very
good, solid year.
But what he has to do is he'sgot to be focused on delivering
on those campaign promises.
At this point he's done it onimmigration OK, we will see.
If tariffs bring manufacturingback, I believe he can be
(21:08):
successful.
But I also think the questionis going to be if manufacturing
comes back to the United States,the bigger question is for us
here in Michigan will theychoose Michigan, or are they
going to choose Kentucky orTennessee?
Or, as I said earlier, are theygoing to choose Indiana?
But I think this president Imean certainly he is he is the
biggest personality in theentire country.
(21:29):
We all know that for eitherparty, ok, and he's going to
loom large, but he ultimately, Ibelieve he is going to be a net
asset for Republicans and weare going to need him in the
state next October, nextNovember, making certain that
his low propensity voters areturning out for us again next
November.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Well, it's going to be a senatorial race as well.
Gary Peters is retiring.
He's been there.
You know, quietly more thananything, and how do you think
the impacts of that senatorialrace going on in the state at
the same time?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
we've got midterms and the governor Well, I mean I
can tell you, first and foremost, it's going to drive up costs
for everything.
I mean, I can't even fathom howexpensive TV ads are going to
be next year in the state whenyou've got a gubernatorial race
where you're probably going tohave $100 million spent.
Who knows what Mike Duggan'sgoing to be able to raise
running as't independent.
You're going to have hisexpenditures.
(22:21):
But as you mentioned the Senaterace, I mean there are some
people predicting that could bea $150-$200 million Senate race.
You've got John James' seat isgoing to be open in the 10th.
That's going to be a fight.
There's going to be millionsspent on that race.
Tom Barrett's race in the 7this going to be the.
You know it's the closest racein the entire country.
So when push comes to shove,there's probably going to be
(22:43):
three, four hundred milliondollars spent on television ads.
This is going to be a veryexpensive race.
That's why I believe that anycandidate running for governor
yes, the television ads aregoing to be important, but you
better have a ground game aswell, because you're going to
have to get out your votes onthe ground as well if you're
going to be successful.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, president Trump did not spend and the pundits
said, oh, he can't win.
And he did successfully.
But you mentioned Mike Duggan.
So we've got Mike Duggan, we'vegot Bernie Sanders, we've got
other independents.
Is there a possibility thatthat party polarization is going
to benefit the independents,where people say you know what,
no Republicans, no Democrats,let's just get somebody that's
(23:24):
not affiliate?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, I think that depends on whether or not
Republicans choose to nominatesomebody that's focused on
issues, or whether or not theychoose to nominate somebody
that's only focused on the otherside or soundbites.
I mean, we have to havesomebody that truly understands
issues.
But ultimately, I believe MikeDuggan will be a net positive
for Republicans.
And let me be clear about thisthe mayor and I we worked very
well together when I was speaker.
There were a couple issues thatwe worked, you know, side by
(23:51):
side, trying to get across thefinish line.
I consider him a friend.
From time to time we talk, butwe have to be honest with
ourselves, and I think he needsto be honest as well.
He's not an independent.
Have to be honest withourselves, and I think he needs
to be honest as well.
He's not an independent, he's aDemocrat.
I know he's running as anindependent, but if somebody
were to really and I think themedia is just now starting to do
this ask him where do youdiffer from Democrats?
(24:13):
His answer is I don't hateDonald Trump.
That's not a political issue.
That just makes you a decentperson because you don't hate
the president.
Ok, so I think that it's adifferentiator.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, so I think I mean it's just.
It's odd that everybodyunderstands what that means.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
But I think, I think, ultimately, when voters really
start to hone in on this raceand they really start to get
educated about the issues andthey see, my goodness, we've got
one Republican running againstessentially two Democrats, I
think that is going to benefitthe Republican, but again, it's
got to be a Republican that'sout there talking about issues.
(24:48):
If not, then you're going tosee Joslyn Benson become the
next governor of the state.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
See?
Well, let's get into some ofthe policy areas.
We've mentioned housing.
We talked a little bit abouteducation.
What about taxation?
There's been proposals from inthe current administration let's
raise the income tax, let'smake it.
You know other than one rate.
We have one candidate in therace saying let's just do away
with the income tax.
Lots of states don't have astate income tax.
(25:13):
I don't know how many there are, but Tennessee, florida, texas,
washington, new Hampshire,nevada, all very high growth
states, and you know people cando that arithmetic.
If four and a half percent isnot coming out of four and a
quarter percent is not comingout of your paycheck, it's money
in your pocket.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Absolutely so in.
You know, as we were we werementioning before we went on
went on camera.
I love doing these types ofinterviews because we can really
get into the detail in thepolicy.
Ok, so you know, first let'slook at the budget.
So, when I left the legislaturein 2018, the state budget was
$59 billion.
This next budget that's goingto ultimately get passed is
(25:54):
likely going to be somewherearound 83 billion.
Okay, so there is no doubt thatthe budget has grown much, you
know, much quicker than people'spocketbooks.
Ok, so I say the people of thestate deserve a tax cut.
Ok, but I think we need to sitdown and we need to have a
serious conversation about taxreform overall.
(26:14):
Ok.
So the income tax when you lookat the top 10 growth states in
this country, five of the top 10either have a substantially
lower income tax than Michiganor they have no income tax at
all.
I believe Michigan ought tostrive to be a zero income tax
state.
I truly do.
Okay, but the number one issuethat I hear about when I'm out
(26:37):
there on the campaign trail it'snot just the number one tax
issue, it is the number oneissue right now is property
taxes.
People feel like they aregetting taxed out of their homes
.
So we've got to do somethingwith property tax relief in the
state again.
And you know you look at if youreally want the state to grow,
if you want our young kids tomove here, you want them to stay
(26:57):
here.
If they're going to buy a homein 60, 70, 80% of their income
is going to be tied up in amortgage and property taxes.
Think of the stress that thatputs on their marriage.
No more date nights, no morevacations.
But you know what?
Now they're second guessingwhether or not they can start a
family.
You look at seniors andretirees that don't know if
they're going to be able to stayin their forever home or they
(27:19):
might want to sell their home.
But if they buy something evensmaller, they're not going to be
able to afford the propertytaxes because that property tax
cap is going to be lifted.
So property taxes, we need to dosomething there as well.
But you know what?
Even with our gas tax, I mean,did you know?
Michigan is one of a few stateswhere we collect a sales tax at
the pump, and I think we're theonly state that that sales tax
(27:41):
does not go directly to roads.
So what does that mean?
A billion dollars per year iscollected at the pump and it
does not go to roads.
Okay, we've got to do somethingabout that as well.
Rich, every cent collected atthe pump ought to go into roads.
So, again going back to youroriginal question, I think we
need tax reform overall.
Certainly, the citizens of thestate need a tax cut, but I
(28:04):
think we need comprehensive taxreform overall to make us more
competitive.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
I agree.
People want to get value fortheir money, and you know we're
sitting here in Ann Arbor, whichhas very high taxes, and the
city of Ann Arbor.
Though, they deliver somepretty good services.
The first responders arewell-trained and well-equipped.
Parks are clean.
Yeah, it's expensive, but youcan see what you get for it.
It doesn't go into the vortexin Lansing.
(28:30):
So, as we talk aboutaffordability, health care and
health insurance and theMedicaid reforms coming through,
how do we make Michigan moreaffordable and, in particular,
health care and health insurance?
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah, so I mean, I think there are several things
that we can do on the healthcare front.
Ok, so Michigan really needs toexpand and use, in my opinion,
telehealth.
Ok, especially telehealth.
Ok, I mean, this is the world,this is the age that we live in.
Okay, so I'll give you, I'llgive an example.
So a few years ago, with theCOVID funds, obviously, the kids
(29:09):
in our school that had beenlocked out of their schools, you
know, you saw mental healthissues go up exponentially.
Okay, so the legislature Ithink they appropriated $800
million.
It was gonna be a little over$200 million over the course of
four years.
That money is gone and thatmoney was appropriated to help
kids with those facing mentalhealth issues.
(29:30):
Okay, so the money was gone.
A study was put in place and theexperts found that, hey, for us
to put a counselor into everyschool building across the state
would cost the state ofMichigan $600 million.
Number one, we don't have thatmoney.
But, number two, if we did havethat money, we don't have
enough counselors across thestate to even have to put in
(29:52):
each building.
So what do you look at?
And I started looking at thisand I started talking to some
companies that offer tele-mentalhealth.
So basically, the kid can signup, they can go online, there's
an app and they can basicallyget the services that they need
from somebody you know talkingto them on the internet or
talking to them through an appon their phone.
What would you think, so, toput a counselor in every room or
(30:12):
every school building?
$600 million.
What would you think that thesecompanies could provide
tele-mental health services toevery single teenager across the
state for $35 million?
$6 million, six million dollarsoh my, one percent of the cost.
And you see those savings intelehealth as well, and that
would really help.
Number one, in rural areas,where they can't get to, you
(30:34):
know you can't get to, you know,certain health experts or it's
tough to get to, you know, ahospital or a clinic.
But also that really helps ourelderly or those with
disabilities who really can'tjump, you know, get in the car
and get to where they need to go.
So we really need to expandtelehealth.
Certificate of need.
That is a big issue and Ididn't realize what a big issue
it was until I started workingwith a company that wanted to
(30:57):
bring a revolutionary cancertreatment here to the state and
unfortunately they were not ableto utilize the equipment that
they had purchased, which costthem $16 million, because of the
certificate of need laws.
Now, thankfully, we were ableto get some reform done that
allowed them to bring thatrevolutionary cancer treatment
here.
But why is it that we shouldhave all these burdens?
(31:19):
We really need to do somethingwith our certificate of need
laws as well.
But also, I mean I know thereare a lot of experts out there
that are into value-based care.
So basically what that says ishey, we're going to pay doctors
more money for outcomes.
If they have better outcomes,we're going to pay them and,
frankly, if they don't, we'renot going to Value-based care.
I believe is a big one.
But you know, health care isgoing to be a big issue moving
(31:41):
forward.
I mean, this state is going toexperience a primary care
physician shortage 800 primarycare physicians short within the
next 10 years.
Already, one third of thecounties across this state are
what they deem maternity deserts, which means they don't even
have an OBGYN available todeliver babies.
I mean, health, healthcare is abig issue facing the state and
(32:03):
that's something we're going tohave to focus on as well.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
There's a proposal, as I know, to let a health
practitioner work at the top oftheir license so that they can
do more, and telehealth.
As long as people can have aprivate area to get the services
and have the connectivity and adevice, it makes a lot more
sense.
And, you know, even if you're aworking person, you don't have
to take time off from work.
(32:26):
Prior to Medicare in my privateinsurance, telehealth handled a
lot of primary care.
It was very efficient, so we'regoing to be on in 30 seconds.
Didn't have to stop anything.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
And they also too and I, you know let me make this
clear about the, you know, theteenagers or those in school,
because I had this questioncomes up often with tele-mental
health services is well, there'dhave to be parental consent?
Right?
The answer to that is yes, youknow, we're certainly not
promoting anything that wouldallow you know a child to sign
up and start receivingcounseling or some type of
(32:59):
health care without parentalconsent If they're not an adult.
The parent would have to bepart of that process.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Well, you know, we've talked a little bit about right
to work.
We've talked about some of theeducation and foundational.
We're in this era right nowwhere DEI seems to be fading,
yet affirmative action haslifted people from minorities,
given them an opportunity toparticipate in the economy.
What would be ahead for thestate of Michigan on those very
(33:26):
sensitive social politicalissues?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Well, I mean, frankly , you know, affirmative action,
the citizens.
They enshrined into theConstitution I believe it was
back in 2006, and saiddiscrimination is wrong.
We don't care what your coloris, we don't care what your
gender is, discrimination iswrong, period.
And I am a strong opponent of,you know, affirmative action.
(33:50):
I actually, you know, we'rehere in Ann Arbor.
I was a student at theUniversity of Michigan at the
height of the affirmative actionfight and I'll tell you there's
two major reasons why I'mopposed to the use of
affirmative action.
Number one, obviously I thinkpeople ought to be, you know,
decisions ought to be made basedon merit, not on the color of
somebody's skin.
But also, I don't think and Iand I had this, you know, I had
(34:12):
this, uh, if you want to say,very spirited conversation with
a graduate student instructor ofmine.
I said the number one reasonwhy I oppose affirmative action
I do not believe it's fair topeople of color.
And I remember meeting this manand I think he had gotten his
undergraduate degree fromharvard.
He was one of the smartestpeople I'd ever met.
(34:34):
This guy was more thanqualified to be here studying
and getting his phd from theuniversity of michigan.
But the problem is because ofthe color of his PhD from the
University of Michigan, but theproblem is because of the color
of his skin for the rest of hislife.
People are going to look at himwhen he applies to a job and
say, oh, he made it into Harvardand he made it into the
University of Michigan becauseof the color of his skin.
That is wrong.
(34:55):
Nobody should ever have thattype of asterisk on their name
because of the color of theirskin.
So I am a strong you know againopponent of the use of
affirmative action.
Number one, because peopleought to be judged based on
their merit.
But number two nobody, becauseof the color of their skin,
ought to be judged movingforward and have people think
that they got into a universitybecause of affirmative action.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
So I understand where you're saying the education.
Lift everybody up, give themthe opportunity.
Now we have a lot ofenvironmental things, like in
the cities.
We have some beautiful cities.
Detroit is on a really nicetrack right now.
Things aren't perfect, but howdo we handle the city issues
that we see?
We've got the National Guardmoving into cities across the
(35:39):
country.
We have unsafe streets.
You know more incidents ofindustrial pollutants.
When you think about the citiesin our state, anything in
particular about them that you'dbe interested in as a governor?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, let me give you a specific example, and this is
an issue I cannot believe.
Over the last five or six yearswe have dropped the ball on.
Okay.
So environmental issues come upquite often and I'm a firm
believer.
Hey, let's fix the problems.
Let's fix the issues that wecan really fix.
Prime example the Rouge Riverhere in southeast Michigan.
It flows through Dearborn, itflows through Detroit and for
(36:15):
nearly 60 years there has been aproblem of industrial
pollutants in that river and infact they have even told the
citizens of Dearborn, the cityof Detroit, if you catch a fish
out of that river, do not eat itbecause it's going to be
contaminated.
Why shouldn't the citizens ofDetroit or the citizens of
Dearborn be able to fish in theRouge River, just like a citizen
(36:39):
in northern Michigan?
Can, you know, fish in one oftheir rivers?
Well, under the infrastructureplan that Joe Biden signed into
law a few years ago, there wasmoney set aside for Great Lakes
restoration and basically it wasa two to one match and what
experts said was it would costabout $800 million to fix a
(37:00):
60-year problem.
So basically the feds werewilling to cover two-thirds of
that cost.
There was no legislator in towntalking about it.
The governor wasn't talkingabout it.
Now I go back to the Detroitbankruptcy settlement and what
Rick Snyder did with thefoundations, what he did with
the local governments, what hedid with the unions.
Could you imagine if we'd had agovernor in place that would
(37:23):
have gone to the mayor ofDetroit, the mayor of Dearborn,
and gone to the head of allthese foundations and said
listen, we've got a problem andwe've got one opportunity to fix
it.
The federal funds are set there.
We need to come up with betweentwo and $300 million.
Mr So-and-so from Foundation X,would you be willing to put
money into a pot and help us dothis?
I will guarantee you that theywould, to ensure that people in
(37:46):
Detroit and people in Dearborncould utilize that river.
It never happened.
So these are the types ofissues that I'm looking forward
to going in there and fixing,the issues that have been on our
plate for 60 years thatnobody's talking about.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Well, look as a kid that crossed the Rouge River
many times on a log and actuallyfell in a few times not a
pleasant experience.
I would have been real behindthat, because it was always
considered dangerous andpolluted and it does need to be
cleaned up.
And I know there's some effortsgoing on in certain communities
, but not enough.
But that's a great example ofan asset that we have here and
I've never heard anybody posethe question yeah, why is it?
(38:24):
We can fish in Manistee, but wecan't fish in Westland.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
That doesn't make sense and, frankly, if we care
about civil rights and socialjustice, to ask the question
very pointedly why isn't it thatpeople of color in southeast
Michigan can't utilize theirfresh water the same way people
in northern Michigan can?
They should be able to andagain, that was a complete, in
(38:50):
my opinion, missed opportunity.
That is something that weshould have jumped on.
Those are the types of issuesthat the next governor of the
state needs to start focusing onfixing the issues that we can
resolve.
But it's going to takepolitical will and actually
putting our heads together toget it done and working together
.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Look as a former prosecutor and potentially our
next governor, when you look atsome of the things around
policing and prosecution andcashless bail and we've just had
recent tragedies of people thatobviously needed to be
restricted before they did moreharm and they're creating
multiple tragedies.
What could the governor do?
(39:27):
Is the government empowered atall to do anything in terms of
some of these policies?
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Well, absolutely, and I'll come to that in just a
moment.
Let me.
Let me take a step back, forfor just a moment.
I mean, you look at my trackrecord when I was speaker of the
House.
Okay, when I came in so I was aprosecutor I was tough on crime
.
I'm still tough on crime, butyou also have to be smart.
When I came to the legislature,when I was a prosecutor, I saw
it used to be in the state ofMichigan that if somebody had a
(39:54):
felony and a misdemeanor ontheir record, they could no
longer get them expunged becausethey had two convictions.
And I looked at that and I saidthat is crazy.
If we're going to have peopleout there, they're not going to
be in jail, they're not going tobe in prison, they need to be
able to get a job.
We need to expand expungementsa little bit.
So I was the one thatintroduced legislation to expand
expungements in the state ofMichigan.
I mentioned driverresponsibility fees.
(40:15):
We had a situation where,because of driver responsibility
fees, 350,000 people in thisstate, most of them the working
poor, could not lawfully obtaina driver's license, 75,000 of
them in the city of Detroit.
I fought like crazy and madecertain that we not only got rid
(40:36):
of those fees but we grantedthose 350,000 people amnesty and
gave them their driver'slicenses back immediately.
I was a huge proponent of theindigent defense reform.
I mean, I believe that ifyou're going to prosecute
somebody, they need to haveadequate counsel, but we also
need a governor that's going tostand with law enforcement and,
(40:56):
as you mentioned, cashless bail.
I mean, look what it's done toCalifornia, look what it did to
New York, and I talked to agroup of police officers today
and I told them, if I'm thestate's next governor, we're
going to send a clear message onday one.
If any type of bail reform hitsmy desk, it's going to be
vetoed immediately.
If there's any type of reformthat's going to get rid of your
qualified immunity so that youcan't do your job, it is going
(41:18):
to be vetoed immediately.
But you know what?
If we also have an attorneygeneral or we have prosecutors
that are prosecuting policeofficers that are simply out
there doing their jobs, they'regoing to have a governor that's
going to stand with them andtell them they're going to get a
pardon immediately if somethinggoes wrong.
In that case, the bottom lineis this Morale is down with law
(41:39):
enforcement.
Half of the police chiefsacross the state have said they
do not have enough policeofficers to provide basic
services.
The same with our sheriffs, thesame with our prosecutors.
We've got to change the culturein the state and we need a
governor that's going to standwith them.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Mr Speaker, the Driver Responsibility Act.
What does that do?
Is there a short definition inlay terms?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (42:04):
So it's hard to you know, I guess, give a quick
explanation.
But essentially what hadhappened?
It was nothing more than amoney grab.
So in the early 2000s the statewas facing a government
shutdown and this was abipartisan mess up.
You had a Democratic governor,you had a Republican legislature
and they were trying to getmoney anywhere that they could.
(42:24):
And essentially some personcame up with this grand idea
we're going to take 20 or 25moving violations.
For one of those violations,we're not only going to fine you
in court, but we're also goingto send notice to the Secretary
of State's office and talk aboutbureaucracy, who then has to
(42:46):
send notice to the Department ofTreasury to send you a bill for
$1,000 and say if you don't paythe state $1,000, we're going
to deem you a bad driver.
If you don't pay that $1,000,we're going to revoke your
driver's license.
The best example I could tellyou is this one no proof of
insurance.
So somebody gets pulled overfor speeding.
Police officer walks up thevehicle's insured.
(43:07):
But hey, they've got a glovebox with a bunch of papers and
they say where's your insurance?
And they can't provide proof.
They're nervous, what have you?
And the police officer writesthem up for no proof of
insurance.
Okay, they go to the courtroom.
They pay their civil fine $200,$300.
They go home.
Three, four months later, thestate of Michigan sends them a
bill and says well, because youcouldn't provide a proof of
insurance, we're deeming you abad driver and now you've got to
(43:30):
pay us a thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Amazing Right, and a check for a thousand dollars
makes me a good driver, so youtake.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
And again it really impacted the working poor.
I mean, you take somebodythat's making, you know, 13, 14,
$15 an hour, at the timeprobably $10 an hour.
They could not afford $1,000.
So I would go into misdemeanorpretrials when I was a
prosecutor and we would havedozens of these young men and
women out the door saying listen, sir, I have no hope of ever
getting a driver's license back.
Please just hold me responsiblefor the next one.
(43:59):
Let license back.
Please just hold me responsiblefor the next one.
Let me go on my way.
I'm just going to drive withouta driver's license.
Not that that was wrong, and youknow Governor Snyder and I we
kind of had to go to battle onthis one because you know he was
a huge proponent of the skilledtrades and bringing jobs to
Michigan and I was with him.
But I said, governor, if we aregoing to bring more skilled
trades here, we've got to makecertain these people can legally
drive there.
(44:19):
Let's get rid of these driverresponsibility fees.
Let's give these people amnesty, let's give them a driver's
license back, let's give themhope.
And I often say on the campaigntrail imagine a conservative
former speaker that used torepresent mid-Michigan going
into Detroit.
There were 75,000 drivers thatdid not have a driver's license.
Imagine going and campaigningin Detroit saying, hey, I was
(44:42):
the one that fought to give youyour driver's license back.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
It would be a powerful message and there's a
lot of people running from WayneCounty, so, absolutely, you've
got to go there.
Mr Speaker, this has been avery fascinating conversation
and we could probably talk herefor another several hours.
There's a lot going on in thestate.
Is there anything that wedidn't talk about that we should
discuss?
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Yeah.
So you know I've talked aboutthe positive vision, the
positive message.
I've talked about, you know, mytime as a prosecutor and I
often tell this story.
So people know about me, theyunderstand how I view the world
and how I'm going to conductmyself on this campaign.
I'm often asked the questionwith people here that I was a
prosecutor hey, what was thebiggest case you ever worked on
(45:26):
and how many years did thatperson go to prison for?
And I tell them we had severalof those.
But the biggest and theproudest case that I ever worked
on wasn't a case where we putsomebody in prison.
It was one where we kept ayoung man out.
And I showed up to this courthearing one day and this young
man he was 17 years old, he'dbeen charged as an adult with
three 10-year felonies assaultwith intent to do great bodily
harm, less than murder.
He shot these three young menat a bus stop in the north end
(45:47):
of Flint.
I showed up to this courthearing and his defense attorney
said Tom, he said, do me afavor, I want you to go back
into the holding cell and I wantyou to spend some time with
this young man.
Come back and let me know whatyou think.
I sat there for over an hour.
This young man, orange jumpsuit, just sobbing.
He said sir.
He said I don't know what to do.
He said everything in thatpolice report is 100% accurate.
(46:11):
But what's not in there is thiswhat I did that day was in
self-defense.
These three men attacked me.
I thought they were going tokill me and I shot them.
And it's three people's word onone I'm going to go to prison
for 10 years.
My life is going to be ruinedand I don't know what to do.
And for some reason there wasjust something in my heart that
day, I believe this young man.
We went out, we got anadjournment.
(46:33):
My officer in charge wasn'thappy about it because he was
overworked.
But him I said Rod, go to thatbus stop and I need you to
determine whether or not therewas surveillance that day.
About four hours later he cameback holding this DVD.
We popped it in and everythingthat that young man said was
100% accurate and it was inself-defense.
Within an hour we got him outof jail.
(46:55):
We had the other three arrestedfor falsifying a police report.
I tell that story because ofthis as I travel the state.
There are a lot of people thatare much like that young man.
They feel like their governmentis coming down upon them.
They feel like, no matter howbig their pay raise is, it can't
keep up with their bills.
They don't feel like their kidsare being educated and they
just want somebody to take thetime to listen to them and then
(47:18):
identify the problem and go outthere with real solutions,
working together as a team toget the job done.
That's what we did that day forthat young man and that's
exactly what I'm going to do asthe state's next governor.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Any final closing thought.
For the voters of Michigan andthe listeners, the readers and
the viewers of the Common Bridge, that's a great.
I love that story.
That's justice done.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
I would just I would love for them to go to our
website, tom4michigancom, andit's F-O-R, not the number four.
So, tom4michigancom, Take alook.
I mean look at our issues page.
I mean, we really put meat onthe bone.
This campaign is about solvingproblems.
They're not going to go to ourwebsite and just see a bunch of
talking points.
They're going to see realsolutions to the problems that
(48:01):
Michigan faces.
That's what we're going to doover the next several months.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
We've been talking today with Tom Leonard.
He is a candidate for theRepublican nomination for the
office of governor in this greatstate of Michigan.
The primary comes next year, asdoes the general election.
Michigan again a very importantstate for the nation, very
important state forinternational relationships.
(48:24):
And with our guest, tom Leonard, this is your host, rich Helpe
signing off on the Common Bridge.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Thanks for joining us on the Common Bridge.
Subscribe to the Common Bridgeon Substackcom or use their
Substack app, where you can findmore interviews, columns,
videos and nonpartisandiscussions of the day.
Just search for the CommonBridge.
You can also find the CommonBridge on Mission Control Radio
on your RadioGarden app.
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.