August 28, 2024 • 52 mins
What if the key to a fulfilling life lies in the small moments you often overlook? Sit down with Jay Webster, a jack-of-all-trades in filmmaking, humor writing, and authoring, as we explore this very notion. From humorous breakfast banter to the inspiration behind his latest book, "You Really Don't Have to Read This," Jay shares stories that celebrate the cherished small moments and universal themes like nostalgia and childhood. Discover how recognizing these moments can shape your life and bring a newfound appreciation for the ordinary.
In our discussion, we reflect on the powerful impact of small communities, intimate gatherings, and deep relationships. Jay’s personal anecdotes and thought-provoking insights challenge the belief that life's purpose needs to be grandiose. Instead, we emphasize how small actions and connections can create lasting, positive ripples in the world around us, making life richer and more fulfilling. Tune in for an episode that’s both humorous and profoundly moving.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ever wondered what songs should play at your
funeral or why school cafeteriasare a breeding ground for
anxiety?
Today, I'm joined by JayWebster, a filmmaker, humor
columnist and the mind behindPioneer Dreams Production
Company.
He's also the award-winningauthor of the Bird and the Moon,
(00:20):
not to mention a husband, afather and all-around great guy.
We'll be diving into his latestbook you Really Don't have to
Read this and exploring whysmall is the new big and why we
often stay silent when we seesomeone doing something well.
It's a conversation that willmake you rethink the little
(00:41):
moments that shape our lives.
So stick around.
Welcome to the Scott TownsendShow brought to you by
Dietzelman Productions.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Softball question what did you have for breakfast
this morning?
So we listened to some otherpodcasts here and there, and
there was a podcast recentlythat had a book called I want to
say it's new energy orsomething like that.
Anyway, it's the latest thingon what you should eat, what you
should avoid and all that kindof stuff.
And and that's my wife isactually the one that uh,
listened to the interview andthought, oh, we gotta get this
(01:17):
book.
And so she bought the book andit was, um, maybe not a surprise
.
It was all about everythingyou're eating is the wrong thing
you're eating and you need toclean all it up and do organic
and all that.
So for the last month we'vebeen trying to do more of that,
and part of that has included,like flaxseed and flax meal and
(01:39):
that kind of stuff, and so wehave been doing.
We call them flax bombs andthat'll let you know exactly
what they do, but uh, but theyactually kind of make these
muffins and all that kind ofstuff and so.
But we were out of eggs today,so I added the flax meal to
oatmeal and, uh, doubled up onthe grains and that's what we
did, so yeah, so if you have toexcuse yourself, we understand.
(02:02):
It's a run, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So is there some reverse psychology in this title
?
You really don't have to readthis Well yes and no.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's funny because a lot of that book is made up in
some form or fashion.
I have a monthly column that Iget to do, and I have for
probably 10 or 12 years, andpart of the idea behind the book
is, you know, for me I put alot of thought into each of
those columns that you everymonth, and probably more hours
than I really should, and but itonly has a 30 day shelf life.
(02:44):
I mean, once the next episodeor next issue of the magazine
comes out, most people disregardthe one previous.
And uh, oh, my gosh,considering how much each of
those things have meant to me,it's terrible to me that it's
just done in 30 days or less,and uh, so I thought it would be
nice to go back and revisitthat.
There's also a number of essaysthat I have written that were
(03:06):
not right for the magazine, andthe magazine told me that, and
so I thought but they wereimportant to me and so I went
back and rewrote those.
So, but within that you knowall those columns which I try to
make funny and all that there'salso a lot of opinion and
everybody has an opinion, and Idon't know why my opinion would
be more important than someoneelse's.
(03:27):
So the title is a littletongue-in-cheek, which is no
one's forcing you to read thisIf you don't agree with the
opinion or you don't find itfunny don't read it, and that's
okay.
But yeah, it is meant to befunny on the other side of it.
So, like on our title um coverof the book, it actually says
you really don't have to in verysmall font and then read this
(03:49):
is in a large font.
So when you look at the book itjust says read this right for
most people, yeah.
So yeah, it's.
It's kind of letting people offthe hook.
You know we you and I do a lotof creative stuff and and you
know what that process is liketo try and get uh people to
listen or be involved in yourcreative process.
And then people will do thesame thing for you.
(04:10):
They'll say, hey, I want you tolisten to this or whatever.
And that is a tremendous burdento put on people a lot of times
to listen to a whole album ofmusic they don't know anything
about, or read a book they don'tknow anything about, and so, um
, I just wanted to go into itfor myself and for others as
lightly as possible.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You know, that's where that's how it kind of came
from so what's the key theme ormessage you hope readers take
away from this book?
The book's very hopeful.
I, I, yeah, let me, let me.
I'll just uh, let me just saysomething real quick.
Uh, this book, before we gettoo much deeper into it.
Uh, this book really took meback, uh, to man.
(04:49):
It was like going down a memorylane.
Uh, you talk about the cars andthe music and you know things
kids go through and I rememberall of that stuff.
The lunch boxes in thecafeteria, the uh, lunchbox
versus a paper, brown paper sack, you know, and the angst around
(05:09):
that.
As a kid man, that's.
That's so tragic.
You know, if you have, yes, ifyou don't have, the lunchbox
anyway.
So, uh, it just, it was man.
And and then bartlesville too.
I mean, it seems like it's alove letter to your family, to
your friends and to Bartlesville.
(05:29):
But really, if someone'slistening to this and they're in
Pennsylvania, it's also.
You don't have to be fromBartlesville to appreciate it,
because it deals with a lot ofuniversal themes.
You know, I don't care whereyou grow up.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I think a lot of it.
You know, I don't know you growup.
Yeah, I think a lot of it.
Uh, you know, I don't know that.
I, you know I didn't set out towrite this.
You know, thematicallythroughout all those columns,
but when I look back at it,probably it's it's.
You know, whatever you valuewhen you get to do something
like a column, whatever yourvalues are or your perspective
is, that's what ends up kind ofbleeding out into the column or
(06:07):
the writing itself, and so youknow, it's not a I don't need to
go on to where we are right nowas a culture in America and
really what we're experiencingin America I don't think is
unique.
I think you can, you can see alot of the same conflicts in
Europe.
You can see it in other, inother parts of the world, and so
I lot of the same conflicts ineurope.
You can see it in other, inother parts of the world, and um
, so I I appreciate theopportunity to a poke fun at
(06:29):
ourselves and call you know,call ourselves out on some
things.
So the idea that somehow, youknow, only the other side has
crazy people or only the otherside has bad people and we never
get to recognize our ownfailings on our own side, that
part of it, but then I think alot of it was trying to put a
halt on the idea of makingpeople one-dimensional.
(06:52):
So if someone is of the otherpolitical party or of the other
religion or the other thing, wehave this kind of caricature of
them and we really hold them tothat image.
And the more that we can breakaway from that and engage other
people, I think the healthier weget in that whole conversation.
So, understanding what theother side quote fears,
(07:13):
understanding what motivatesthem, understanding what we're
trying to work out and that weare all much more human and
together than maybe what we'refeeling in this moment, that's
really important to me.
So I think that is the hope ofit.
You know, the hope is oh, weare.
Despite the rhetoric, we'rereally not as far away from each
other as we think we are.
(07:35):
And the more we shrink thatdown into our little town in our
case Bartlesville and ourlittle communities and our
neighbors, the more we candiscover.
Oh, oh yeah, we really are moreconnected than maybe we know on
a national basis talking aboutrepublicans and democrats.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
You uh mentioned something in the book that I
thought was uh, I really had aproblem with.
I wrote I was offended by thethought that jesus isn't
republican.
What, totally kidding.
But uh, yeah, it's.
Uh, you know, you can play offthat kind of stuff, have some
fun with it and and forceyourself to think okay, so, okay
(08:13):
, so if he isn't republican andif he isn't democrat, then what
is he?
And where do we all fall inthat you know?
because I think we all tend tothink that uh is whoever we are.
You know, yeah, maybe that'strue to everybody, but you know,
we try to also pigeonhole himinto a certain look or a certain
(08:34):
description, kind of forget, or, or we short sheet the idea
that he's so much more than justa absolutely wig, or, and
that's, I mean, that's reality.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I don't need jesus to look like me.
Yeah, though, that though Ispent a lot of my time trying to
make him someone much smarterthan I am had made that point
that you know that this this godof our creation, that you know
that we have done a lot to tryand make sure that God looks
like us and has our values andhas our interests at heart, as
opposed to someone who's biggerthan us and something that might
(09:18):
actually transform us from ourcurrent state into something
better than who we are right now.
So, if Jesus only looks like meand he thinks like I think and
he values only what I value,then, I'm already there, I've
already reached this, you know,deity status.
But if there's someone biggerthan me, something bigger than
me that is calling me to changeor calling me to a better
(09:41):
version of myself, then I shouldbe interested in that.
And so, yeah, I did kind of doit tongue in cheek, because, you
know, oklahoma is about as reda state as you can get.
Republicans are a supermajority here and most national
campaigns they will callOklahoma before they call
Florida, and that's on the EastCoast.
So, you know, in our case,poking that you know, poking fun
(10:04):
at that and being open to thatis really really important, and
it is, it is the stuff that endsup troubling us or pausing us
for a second.
It oftentimes is the thing thatit can also be the most helpful
in our lives.
So there's an awful lot inChristianity that offends my
(10:27):
senses and offends my comfortand offends me on a lot of other
different levels.
And that's the healthy part ofit for me.
That's the part that says, oh,I must be in the right place, I
must be in the right class andtaking the right courses,
because this is really difficult, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, so let's dive into the book just a little bit.
I want to kind of give thelisteners those are watching
kind of a taste of uh, what theymight be able to expect from
the book a lot of great, uh, alot of great stuff here.
I usually, at night, um, mywife and I will sit out in the
(10:58):
backyard under our umbrella onthe patio and, uh, I'll have a
stack of books.
I usually have like three books,four books that I'm reading at
once you know, yeah, so we wouldsit outside and I was reading
this one and, and almost everynight when I got through with,
uh, my reading, I'd look over ather and say, man, this is, this
is just a really good book.
(11:19):
It's funny and it's poignantand, uh, it's hopeful, and yet
it's uh, you feel there'sthere's a little uh tugging at
the heartstrings.
Uh, not tragic, but uh, I wasthinking of that one where you
said, well, let me just startfrom the beginning, we'll get to
it.
Chapter two big.
(11:40):
Um, yeah, talk to me about thechapter bit.
Well, here, let me start offwith saying, uh, after 30 plus
years of chasing bigprofessionally, I think I have
finally discovered the missingsuccess factor is small, small
communities and smallinteractions that leave a big
impact, small things that makeyou laugh, small stolen peace
(12:01):
moments or places your mind goesto when you're quiet, small
points of focus you can go toand reset your mind.
Uh, small is a stone that makesthe ripples the first step of a
long journey, the idea thatlater changes your whole way of
thinking.
Don't underestimate small.
Yeah, what's small mean to you?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I mean it sounds like you were at first thinking
everything needed to be big andgrand and you're kind of missing
the every, every hero storystarts with something small,
someone small, some smallbeginning and and, uh, yeah,
part of our american mythology,of course, is this idea that we
(12:44):
grew up with with and where youcan be anything and you could be
president of the United Statesif you want to be, and there's
nothing, you know, there'snothing that's going to stop you
from achieving your dreams andthis, that and the other, which
you know, is true to an extent,you know, but it also for me,
and I think parts of mygeneration also seeded this idea
(13:04):
that I, oh, that means I haveto be big.
I better get on the stick andfind this whole thing.
Whatever is your purpose inlife, the vision for your life,
you know, on and on and on.
And we were.
We had done a book club for adifferent book called Big Magic
a year or two ago, and there wasa friend of ours who was.
We had probably about 20 peoplein the club and it was a really
(13:27):
fantastic thing.
If you ever get a chance to doa book club, it's fantastic
because the book is just anexcuse for your conversation.
So somewhere in there, uh, alady who's uh 60 something said
uh, I grew up and in my entirelife, my parents always told me
God has a plan for you, that isa purpose for you.
(13:47):
And here I am now.
I'm a widow and all the kidsare gone and I'm alone and I'm
thinking did I miss it?
Did I miss this?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
plan, because the plan was all that about.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, so the plan was supposed to be big, the plan
was supposed to be grandiose.
I was supposed to do thisheroic quest and so for us, you
know, in a creative field, whenwe first started, that was
absolutely the goal.
We wanted to do big movies, wewanted to do big music videos,
we wanted to make a bigimpression.
Little further down the roadand maybe that big does not look
(14:25):
like you thought it was goingto look, and then you have to
say so did I fail?
Or is my life incompletebecause I didn't achieve big at
that level and um?
or what you thought, yeah, andI've been a part of that
conversation from the book clubwith, uh, big magic starts out
this conversation about how fameor notoriety that's still like
a relatively new hundred yearold concept.
(14:47):
And if you were a musician,beyond that point, you just
simply went from town to townand played and there were 20 or
40 people and and the fact thatyou were making a living doing
music, that or or being agesture or whatever, that was
amazing, that was great.
Do that thing.
And it's only recently thatwe've cut this craving for a big
audience, and so it's taken anawful lot to trade in big for
(15:12):
small, but but within that hascome, I think, a greater sense
of community.
So instead of always looking togo away to somewhere else and
be known somewhere else and thencreated this bigger following,
it is the depth of theserelationships that I have found
to become much, much moreimportant.
So when we came out of thepandemic and we started doing
(15:36):
events and gathering peopletogether and all that kind of
stuff, they were not largegroups, they were, you know, 20
to 30, 40 size groups.
But the intensity of the peoplewithin those groups and how
much they desired to connectwith people again.
That was intense and that hasbeen the thing that's, I think,
(15:56):
changed us.
So you know, I guess thequestion is would you rather
deeply impact and connect with10 people, or loosely, or
broadly, or forgettably, connectwith a thousand people?
So, yeah, we can do thosethings and you can create that
kind of buzz and you can connectwith a thousand people, but
that may not last for you, butthe 10 people who will be with
(16:19):
you till the end, that'simportant.
That's a deep thing.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, and the reality is there's only so many big
spots available.
So if you're chasing that, it'slike growing up with a dream of
being in the NBA.
That's really only going tohappen for a very small group of
people, so you better be okaywith this announce in the
process.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Thank you for joining the Scott Townsend Show.
We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Hey, if you're enjoying the episode, why not
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Your feedback means the worldto us.
Uh.
(17:17):
The other one, uh, cosmic kid infull costume dress yes, oh, man
, this one paragraph.
All the other kids hadsuperhero lunch boxes with
matching thermostat thermoses.
I dragged and a.
I dragged and recycled a brownbag.
Each day at noon my lunch,neighbors would unload oreos and
(17:39):
capri suns and fruit roll-upsand whatever edibles came with
the tv jingles.
With tv jingles, yeah, Iusually pulled out a mostly
thawed bologna sandwich which myworking mom wisely pre-made and
froze weeks in advance.
The ketchup was always the lastdefrost and I that takes me
(18:00):
back to the Mountain View inTexas, the elementary school
that I went to, and the smell ofbologna and Fritos.
I still can smell that to thisday and I remember having.
I mean, I was fortunate enoughto have a lunchbox and it was.
You know, to have a brown paperbag, like I was telling you
(18:23):
earlier would just be, you know,for a kid so devastating, and
yet you seem to handle it reallywell.
You weren't too scarred from it, doesn't look like?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, well, yeah, that title for that chapter
actually comes from a BruceSpringsteen song.
Some of the listeners will know, but it's from a song called
Growing Up, and yeah, it was.
That's the first moment, Ithink one of the first moments
where you discover us versusthem for the very first time.
(18:52):
So that's the moment where youbegin to assess who you are, who
your is, uh, versus thefamilies and the persons around
you.
And so you show up to schooland you begin to notice your
sneakers or tennis shoes versustheir sneakers or tennis shoes
or your clothing versus.
And then in the lunchroom, itwas always that, so people would
(19:14):
show up with a lunchbox and amatching thermos and then they
would be whatever the snack dujour was.
So in our, in my era, was uh,you know, is this the uh,
punchable, um sunken stuff andall that kind of stuff and all
the prepackaged foods, and andso my mom and dad were divorced
very early and uh, we you know,my mom was kind of the
(19:37):
definition of the working poorat the time, and so we just
didn't have it, and so whateverwe had, it would always be like,
you know, saltine crackers anda bologna sandwich and maybe an
apple or something and everybodyelse was rolling up Rolo Pops
and you know all that kind ofstuff and, like we said,
anything with a jingle they hadit.
(19:57):
Yeah, marketing and a box yeah,and you see, you did notice and
I, you know, my, it was funny,as my uh daughter who's uh
almost 13, she doesn't reallylack anything uh.
But we but we both kind of hadlonged for, um, the cafeteria
lunch because it always smelledso good.
And then, you know, that waskind of a level playing field
(20:19):
too.
Anybody that got a tray, youdidn't know who they were, where
they came from, they just allhad the same tray and so yeah,
it did, I think, bother me a lotthrough probably sixth grade or
so, you know, when everybodyelse had the better shoes and
the better pants and all thatkind of stuff.
But that just played into aninsecurity you already had.
(20:39):
I was, I was really awkward as akid.
I was too tall, my feet weretoo long, I was too thin, I was
not coordinated, I wasn't goodat a lot of stuff, I had
dyslexia, I needed glasses and Ididn't know it, and so I was
perpetually the class Tom,because I would just get
distracted and and didn't knowwhat else to do with myself.
So you know, being saddled by alittle bit of minor poverty
(21:05):
only played into, you know how Ialready felt about myself
anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Did you feel like you were in poverty?
Or did you feel like, did yourealize that there?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
wasn't enough, or did you just Not?
No, not until later in life didI kind of know where we were,
but we had.
I came from a really largeIrish Catholic family and they
were fun, and so I felt goodabout all that.
And I don't think you're asaware, you know.
I think you know the way thatpoverty might have impacted me
(21:36):
in that level was just simply,probably in some way I felt like
that was just more of me.
I'm just not as good aseverybody else, um, but but you
know I had a really securechildhood.
I would always.
I slept in the same house, inthe same bed, I was with my mom,
everything was good and itwasn't.
There was no upheaval ordisorder or that kind of stuff.
My mom really made sure of allthat.
(21:58):
So, um, I wasn't, I wasn'treally aware of the pot until I
got out of it and went back andlooked at that stuff and, and
you know like I have since takenmy daughter back to the first
house we lived in when we movedto bartles road from kansas, um,
and it's literally on the traintracks, beside the train tracks
(22:19):
, and my mom and I came backfrom being somewhere one night
and there were police carseverywhere and the house is deep
on the west side, where we livenow, and so there are police
cars everywhere and we gotstopped by the cops on our way
into the house and the cops saidwhere are you going?
and my mom said well, this iswhere we live, this is my house,
(22:41):
it's not anymore you got to getout of here and you know it was
that bad a spot and uh.
So now I can take my daughterback and it's it's.
I'm not trying to, you know,warp her or get points, I just
want her to know how good wehave it yeah now because we're
living in a, in a lifestyle, ina way that most people just
(23:01):
simply don't you know, even inour community.
So I just want her to be ableto appreciate how good we really
have it, you know, whateverlevel it's yeah participation
ribbon.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
This was a good one, and there's one thing in here.
Hang on a second.
What I liked about this one wasthat it really shows off your
comedic writing.
Just good writing for one, butcomedic writing, yeah.
On the last last part havingleft my thirties long ago, I
(23:37):
often feel like I left myathletic triumphs in the pocket
of another decade's pants.
I just thought that was apretty clever sentence.
That's okay.
I refuse to go quietly into theexercise night.
I'm more than happy to holdthat blue participation ribbon
up high.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Just a good.
Just wanted to bring that upbecause I thought that was a
good, a clever turn of phrasethere.
Difficult either to find thetime to work out or to keep
yourself healthy, or justbecomes harder to do that, and
in the last couple years that'sbecome much harder for me.
And so then you have to decide.
If I can't achieve the samelevel of physicality that I did
(24:30):
10 or 20 years ago, am I goingto simply quit, or do I just do
what I can do?
And so coming to grips withjust doing what I can do has
really been healthy for me and,I think, probably changing my
values in that.
So I just want to be able tobend over and tie my shoes
without grunting and be asmobile as possible, for as long
(24:54):
as possible.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
What is it?
I've noticed, every time I sitdown or stand up, I have to make
a noise oh yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
What is that?
It announces it?
I'm standing, I'm getting readyto stand up here, everybody
watch out yeah and the nextchapter that I I really enjoyed
this.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
This and another one kind of went hand in hand uh see
it, say it, yes, and the let'ssee what was it?
The other?
Uh, see it say it, and then uh,oh, uh, under communicating
yeah being the undercommunicator.
Uh, see it, say it.
I.
I like this chapter onlybecause not only because, but
(25:38):
because a lot of times, well,you pointed out why this is a
good reason to.
If you see it, say it.
Now, here's the really coolcool thing If we have been
transformed at some level bysomeone recognizing the good in
us, then, by proxy, we have thatsame power to help transform
others.
Yeah, how often do we thinkabout how good someone is at
(26:00):
something and that's as far aswe go?
Or maybe we tell those we'rewith, but not the actual person
or human.
How does that help them?
The reality is, when werecognize the good in someone
and tell them, the result isthey go on to do more good.
We help grow the good.
So, yeah, why don't we saythings to people when something
(26:25):
you know, I see it all the timeand it's like, uh, we have, we,
we're very, uh cautious aboutdoling out niceties,
congratulations or what it'slike we, we have a budget and we
can't, you know it's unlimitedI really struggled trying to
(26:46):
figure out why that is.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I you know, if I look at myself, I can say, oh well,
uh, most often if I don't saysomething to someone else, it it
falls into two categories.
One it'll be awkward If I stepup to someone I know or barely
know and I tell them what Iappreciate about them or what
(27:08):
skill I really think isfantastic in them.
There's a really great chancethat's going to be awkward, and
I've done that.
If you go to a restaurant andyou're talking to somebody on
staff there or something likethat, and I've thought to myself
golly, this person is above andbeyond the normal waiter or
this person, even the way theypresent themselves or what they
(27:30):
wear and all that kind of stuff.
And so I try to be brave enoughto say that.
And when you break that barrierbetween the customer and the
worker or something like that,it's jostling for a lot of
people because they're in aworld I'm here to serve and I'm
in this world right now.
But when you break that downand become human with people,
(27:52):
again it takes a minute, and sothere's that part of it that's
awkward takes a minute, and sothere's that part of it that's
awkward.
The other part of it, I thinksometimes and we see this a lot
in our world is people justassume you know.
So if you are a greatinterviewer, if you are a great
(28:13):
singer, if you're a great writer, whatever it is, people just
assume oh, you must already knowthat.
I don't need to draw moreattention to the fact.
And the reality is most of usare really insecure or we just
appreciate the fact thatsomebody else enjoyed something
that we did.
So I think those two things arereally hard.
And then we I think the thirdthing probably is we just get
distracted.
(28:33):
We are so busy working throughthings that the idea of stopping
and acknowledging but it's sucha powerful thing and the, uh,
immediate connection we havewith another person by quote,
seeing them and then andacknowledging the goodness in
them, is amazing.
And then you know, as you'rereferencing in the, you know the
(28:54):
whole thing about when you sayto someone you're so good,
you're such a great friend,you're such a, you're so
hospitable, you're so courageous.
All that does is multiply thegood because they go on to do
more good.
Now they think to themselvesthat's, I can do more of this.
So when I was about 17 or so.
(29:17):
I would literally just talkingabout this.
Last night, when I was about 17or so, I met Anjanette, who
would become my wife, and I mether family and if you know her
dad, jason at all, that's who heis.
He is the king of see it andsay it.
He's the king of seeing good inpeople and telling them.
So when my soul was prettystarved at that moment and I had
(29:39):
this echo chamber going on inmy head about what a loser I was
, to have somebody, in my case,especially a male, step in and
say you know what I'm looking atyou and you are so x, y and z,
or you're so you said you knowthat my soul ate that up.
You know I and it.
It literally changed the way Isaw myself and and changed the
(30:01):
course of my life, changed who II would have been and, um.
So the power of that littlething of seeing someone and
acknowledging the goodness inthem, even if it's how they do
their hair or how they do theirnails or how you know how courte
as they are, whatever it is,there's always something.
Uh, it is transformative whenit happens and it's a, it's an
(30:25):
amazing power that all of ushave, and it just takes so
little to actually use it it'slike we're all, uh, starved for
that kind of a thing.
We're like super dry sponges andjust one little, you know one
little drop, and it just soaksit all up yeah, I think in that
(30:48):
in those two chapters you know,speaking which, that what's I
think ironic about that isprobably the.
You know, the person that I'mclosest to and maybe the most
comfortable with is my wife, andand she's also probably the
person I have to be the mostintentional about recognizing
(31:08):
out loud the good I've seen her.
Probably because, you know,because I'm so comfortable with
it, I don't think to say it.
I see it all the time in mymind and she looks beautiful
today.
Or I can't believe howwonderful she is at taking care
of me or making sure my feelingsare met, whatever, whatever.
I think those things all thetime and I so rarely say them
(31:29):
out loud to her, which does herabsolutely no good.
I'm feeling that, I'macknowledging that, I think that
and I don't say it to her andit's troubling.
So I've, I've I've tried to bebetter at that, but I've learned
from both her and from her dadthat whole principle of see it
and say it, and it's soimportant there was a, an
(31:50):
example, um, that I had uhhappened to me, uh, there was at
work, there was uh.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
I won't go into all the details.
Make it long story short here,but or short story long uh,
there was this guy there and hejust basically said you know,
you really do a good job of whatyou're doing.
And I was like, oh yeah, that'scool, you know.
I just kind of played it off.
He goes no, I mean I've been toother places, um, and the the
(32:20):
guys in those the samedepartments don't do what you're
doing and I travel around allof them.
And I'm just telling you thatit it looked really good.
I was like after I was a wowman, that's yeah, I had no idea
that anybody even noticed.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I mean, I knew what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I was trying to, you know, keep things nice and sharp
and you know whatever, but forsomeone to actually notice.
And then, and so it lit a fire.
That was that.
I just went off, you know, andto the point where our regional
marketing manager one of theguys uh, in corporate uh, came
(33:05):
by and he said he said that wewere doing better than any other
store that he had seen.
Oh yeah, he took a picture ofit and yeah, and sent it around
to others.
It was all because that one guysaid something, you know, months
ago or however long, just thatlittle phrase, and it went on to
(33:27):
, to the ripple effect, thebutterfly effect.
You know it just right.
I don't think we realize howimpactful something so small
like that back to your chapterbig how something small like
that can have huge, uh, I meanthe.
The company benefits from it.
Uh, the people, the customersbenefit from it, everybody
(33:49):
benefits from it, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And just because of somebody saying something so
small well, and I think younailed this other part of it too
, which is there's the initialinteraction.
You know someone sayingsomething, but then there is the
later reaction of you thinkingabout that and what that means.
And in my case, because I ammore or less a pretty awkward
(34:14):
communicator, especially face toface with a lot of people,
face-to-face with a lot ofpeople so I, I, you know, I
might acknowledge or seesomething in someone and say it
and they it doesn't necessarilyregister in that moment or maybe
they don't respond in a waythat I I kind of wish they would
says oh yeah, I hear whatyou're saying, but later they
will think about it, later theywill.
That they'll take that withthem and it will impact them
(34:38):
later.
So you might compliment someoneand they don't necessarily
respond in that immediate moment, but it registers and it is,
it's rewiring stuff in theirbrain, uh, and how they see
themselves, you know, later Iactually wrote in the book here
under, uh, the, the undercommunicating what was that the
uh?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
confessions of an under communicator.
Confessions of an undercommunicator.
I wrote at the end of thechapter why is it that we always
wait for eulogies and thefunerals to say something nice
about somebody when that, atthat point, does that person
know?
Good, you know, we're allreally good at that.
You know we'll get up and we'llcry, we'll laugh, we'll tell
(35:20):
funny stories and tell how greatthey were and stuff.
So why don't we?
Why don't we do that whenthey're alive?
You know, why do we save it upat the time when it won't do any
?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
won't do the guy or gal any good yeah, if you know,
if you sat down right now, youcould probably make a list of
five people that you really loveand respect in that same kind
of way that if they passed awaytomorrow you'd really be
heartbroken and think what is it?
I wish I could have told them.
(35:50):
And if you make that list now,you could say those things now,
say those things in a momentwhen they could hear it.
You could actually say, okay,these are five people that I
need to reach out to and just,it's going to be awkward and
it's going to be a weird momentembarrassing just let them know.
Uh, you know, I just appreciatethe way you've always stood by
me.
You've always stayed with me.
(36:11):
I appreciate the fact that,even when we don't see each
other for six months, I can callyou and it's like we've never
been apart.
Whatever that thing is, but itwill mean something.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I told my son he's in video production too.
I told him I said when I diewell before I die I want to do
my own uh, obituary.
Yeah, so, and and so you know,whenever one of the comes in and
sits down there, I am up on thescreen and say hey, everybody,
come on in and sit down.
You know we're going to getstarted here in about five
(36:46):
minutes, yeah, and then uh, andthen I'm going to say hey, you
know, hey, everybody, you know.
So here I'll let me just tellyou, you know, instead of
someone having to research this,who knows it better than me?
You know, I know where I wasborn and who my parents were,
and so I can go through all thatand I just think that would be
so fun.
I'm not looking forward todoing that anytime soon, but at
(37:08):
some point I think that would befun for the audience to.
You know just where is hereally dead?
Is he in the back?
You?
know, yeah, but just kind oftake it to a whole another level
of, uh, you know, just lightenup and you know it's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
It's okay, you know and I think that'd be a lot of
fun actually, so, and you'dfinally get to say the things
about other people you wanted tosay yeah, you mentioned also
the uh, the, the problem withpants, which is a great chapter,
super hilarious.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
But you, you bring in up in that the songs for your
funeral.
Yes, and I think about that alot.
And then when you wrote, when Iread that, I was like dang, I
mean I've already got a playlistthat I know I want played.
And if I hear a song I'll sendit to my son and say, here, make
sure this one gets in, you know, or whatever, but I was
(38:05):
surprised to hear that someoneelse does the same thing.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yes, yeah, and those are awkward conversations.
You know, my daughter and Ilove to have those kind of
conversations and it bothers mywife a little bit.
She just doesn't like to thinkabout stuff like that, but we
find it funny.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
That's great Things we do for love, and I'll wind up
with this one, the Shasta.
Starflight.
So what was that all about?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's a 1973.
Oh, as the chapter says, thisis an act of love, so it's uh,
it's a 1973.
Uh, shasta trailer.
It's.
Um, we, you know, of course we,everybody uh responded to covid
in different ways and, um, youknow, there's an awful lot of
that.
Now that's like I kind ofmissed in terms of the pacing
(38:56):
and all that kind of stuff.
But uh, so we responded by um,going camping and doing stuff,
and we went to turkey, mountainand tulsa and hiking and we
would go to and went to drippingsprings and all that kind of
stuff.
And then we ended up going outto osage hills to go tent
camping and and we had a greattime, though it snowed and
(39:16):
rained on us the entire time wewere there.
It was really funny and and Ithink over the three days you
know, combined internet and Igot about four hours of sleep
and Evangeline slept greatbecause she can sleep on a rock
and it wouldn't be a problem.
So when that was all over, wheninternet said I really enjoyed
the camping, but I'm done withtents, I don't want to do that
(39:38):
anymore, and they just didn'tlike the idea of getting up at
two in the morning and going tothe bathroom with raccoons you
know.
So she did, she raised, she didsome research.
I did a lot of research andfound out that the starflight is
the smallest model of trailerthey made, that actually had an
indoor bathroom 17 feet long.
(39:59):
And uh, and I didn't want anypart of that project because, uh
, you know, we were already kindof working on remodeling a home
we had just moved into and Ijust didn't want or need another
project.
But so she stayed on it forlike another year and, uh, she's
a singer, songwriter, peoplemight know.
And so she saved up all of hergig money for a year and then
(40:23):
presented me with this letterand presentation saying this is
what I'd like to do and this isthe model that we want, and
here's the money for it.
And if you say no, you don'twant to do it, I'll respect that
, but this is really what I wantto do, and it's very difficult
to say no to somebody like that.
So then she did some researchand she found one in the very
(40:45):
south end of Oklahoma and wewent down and got it and it had
been stationary I think it hadbeen a camp trailer for somebody
for a while, so they had redonethe plumbing to go into like a
septic tank somewhere.
But they had treated it like acamping trailer so it had
multiple leaks.
It had a fire in it at somepoint.
It was pretty it had the 70swood paneling and it was pretty
(41:09):
dank in there, and so we broughtit back to Bartlesville, back
to our house, and took it backdown to the studs, which I use
that word very lightly thereit's toothpicks and foil.
It's like sausage.
You don't want to know howthose things are made.
And um, and we rebuilt it.
Did you know?
(41:30):
New installation, new electric,new everything.
And um, and now we can.
Now we continue to take it out.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So we, we take it out , you still have it.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I'm sorry you still have it.
We still have it.
It's in our driveway now.
It's red and white.
It gets compliments wherever wego.
It has a great little heat andair unit and it's just big
enough for like the three of us.
So the table drops down andcushions come out and that makes
a bed for Evangeline and thenthere's like a twin or full bed
(42:06):
in the back and it's a lot offun.
It I don't like it because yougot to drag it places and then
you've got to deal with thewastewater and all that kind of
stuff.
But but it's.
You know there's.
Those are the things we jokeabout.
You know that's that.
That's not anything I had aninterest in doing or being part
of.
But but when someone you lovewants something that badly,
there are places where you haveto yield and bend, and that was
one of them.
So it became an ongoing jokebetween us that you know and I
(42:29):
and I will still.
There's, there's a.
Our neighbor has a tree that isnot long for this world, as
they say, and I keep joking thatI'm praying for that tree to
fall onto the trail so we canjust be done with it because
every time we take the trailerout, there's something else that
has to be repaired, or yeah.
So it's the when, when we go out.
It's a tremendous amount ofwork for me on the front and
(42:52):
back side of it, but I will saythat what is unique about that
experience is, once you get outto wherever you're camping,
that's what you're doing.
You're camping and you're notmowing the lawn, you're not
painting the house, you're notdoing chores, and so there is an
arrested amount of time inthere where you're camping that
(43:14):
you get to kind of do that thingwhich is even different than
going to a city for vacation orwhatever because you're out in
nature kind of do that thing,which is even different than
going to a city for vacation orwhatever because you're out in
nature.
So Evangeline and I go fishingand her record has been perfect
so far.
She's caught fish on every tripwe've been on.
My record is perfect becauseI've caught no fish on every
trip we've gone on and we cookand we hang out and get to do
(43:36):
stuff that we wouldn't normallyget to do.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
So, even though I don't love the trailer, I do
like being with family thatworks out pretty well.
Yeah, in the chapter it says Ithought this was hilarious.
Uh, what the shasta also had,which we didn't know at the time
, was a sizable hole in theholding tank.
The holding tank holds, or issupposed to hold, just what you
think it does.
So with a hole in the shitterand triple digit temperatures,
the trailer smelled like a hotaugust rodeo going into day
(44:07):
three.
Yeah, man, that's right yeah,and that's always.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
That's always the contest in every trip is how's
the, how's the toilet gonna holdup?
How is it gonna?
Are we using the toilet?
Are we not using the toilet?
Yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
So what's the next book, man?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
uh, you got anything coming up uh, I have been toying
with some different things.
I don't have anything, uh,concrete yet, um, uh, and I I
miss writing on a regular thing.
I still get get to do thecolumn, which is nice, and I'm
just deciding.
So I was joking with mybrother-in-law this week.
(44:51):
It feels like in the creativeprocess that the further you get
away from something, the morelikely you are to discount it.
So, like my wife, ancient justreleased an album and it took us
the better part of six monthsor so, or longer, than actually
to put the whole thing together.
And somewhere in the middle ofthat came christmas.
So we had several weeks awayfrom the project and in the
(45:12):
midst of being away from theproject it was very easy to say
is it?
Is it anything?
Should we do we finish this?
Do we not finish it?
When you're in it and you'rerewarded with the creativity and
inspiration and the work of itand seeing some that fruit of it
, you stay with it.
But when you get away from it,so I'm kind of that way on this
project right now I I wrotesomething.
(45:32):
Uh, I I got about a year awayfrom it.
I realized it was the wrongtact or the wrong way to manage
it and I thought here's the wayit should be done.
But it's a really intimidatingproject for me and I need to get
back physically into it andthen decide is this something or
(45:54):
is it not?
But I don't want to decide thisfar away from it, you know, to
kill it, because it's too easyto do that when you're away from
it did you self-publish thisbook?
uh, yes, yeah which I think isawesome yeah, well, especially
with this book, you know it'swhen it's a um, I don't know an
(46:14):
opinion book or column book orsomething like that the only, in
most cases, the only reasonsomeone would buy that book is
because they know me or someonesuggested it to them.
So from a publisher standpointthere's no value in that book
for them.
It's not a genre book.
If it was a Western or amystery or a romance, you could,
(46:35):
you could maybe work that angle.
But just a strictly memoiropinion book it doesn't make
sense.
But it's been nice and I havegone to a couple of little book
shows and stuff here and thereand meeting people in that
process and just the involvementof that has really been
enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, I bet, so I've got a title for your next book.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
You don't have to read this either.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Hey, you know, what's funny is so we were doing a
little podcast that I didn'tthink we would ever do.
My daughter was on a band trip.
They had to go to Silver DollarCity.
We were chaperones, and so mywife and I are in our own car
following the yellow bus all theway to branson, which is like
(47:25):
three and a half hours, and weget in to the, we're there in
the car, it's just the two of us, and so we start talking about
whatever it was, and then theconversation kind of bobs and
weaves and goes to places andends up in this kind of a
spiritual conversation.
And for most of our lives we'vebeen allergic to most things
(47:48):
publicly spiritual because, youknow, in our area of the country
that's a whole thing and it'sthe culture of Christianity
that's been difficult for a lotof people.
So we just don't really gothere and we're trying to be a
bridge for a lot of peopleinstead and but angie net said
about 30 or 45 minutes in thisconversation.
Um, I know this is a difficultconversation for a lot of people
(48:12):
that we're having.
I know it would be scary forsome people to have this
conversation, but it's so honestthat I think it might really
help people and that would bescary for some people to have
this conversation, but it's sohonest that I think it might
really help people and thatwould be an interesting podcast.
And so I we sat on that for along time and I just thought I
just don't know if I want to beinvolved in a podcast that's
(48:33):
spiritual.
I don't know if I want to doany of that stuff, and I and uh.
So then we decided we would doit, but we would just do it from
a standpoint of this isunfiltered, it is unvarnished,
it is honest.
It's a conversation that Ithink a lot of people could be
(48:54):
involved in, and and the realityof it is, if you don't like it,
you don't have to listen to it.
So that is the name of thepodcast that will come out and I
think it's in September is youreally don't have to listen to
it, so that?
is the name of the podcast thatwill come out in I think it's in
september is you really don'thave to listen to this and it's
just a kind of an unfilteredconversation about you know, for
us growing up in the bible beltand and we like to refer to it
as the bedazzled belt buckle ofthe bible belt and could we have
some?
we're not trying to convinceanybody of anything or
(49:16):
proselytize anybody on anythingor whatever.
We just want to have an openconversation that I think a lot
of people are thinking about,but they don't know that other
people are having that sameconversation.
So, uh, we'll see where thatgoes, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
But you're right, the other book title either, is
great yeah, uh, last questionwhat do you hope readers will do
after reading this book?
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Oh, I really, you know, if, uh, if there was more
uh, person to person contact,especially with people that, uh,
you know are not part of yournormal group, If you, if we stop
looking at people as onedimensional cardboard cutouts,
caricatures of, you know,Republicans or Democrats or
(50:04):
whatever grouping, and weengaged each other more, man,
that would be, that would be thehighest goal for me, Just the
idea that we would engage peoplemore, that we would be more
civil and loving and and learnhow much we really enjoy that
when we do it, if we can justget over the things that get in
(50:25):
the way of that.
So, yeah, more personalconnection with people would be
the goal.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, I totally agree, and nottake yourself too seriously.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Well, the book is.
You really don't have to readthis and, uh, highly highly
recommend it.
Need to go out and get you one.
So to get this book, I guessyou go you can go to really
anywhere.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, you can go to amazon, you can go to.
Bookbabycom is a great resourcefor that stuff.
But, yeah, anywhere that youfind books online, you can find
it there, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
If anybody wanted to get in touch with you, have
questions or comments after this, where would they send?
Speaker 2 (51:07):
them.
They can go tojwpioneerdreamcom.
There is a website calledSpeaking of Jay Webster and that
has some content.
I think it'sspeakingofjaywebstercom, so
speaking of Jay Webster, andthat has some content, I think
speakingofjaywebstercom and thathas some contact information
too.
But yeah, justjwpioneerdreamcom.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
That's the easiest way to email me and we can start
a long lasting friendship fromthere.
So any last words, I just soappreciate it.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
You know, you and I have known each other for a long
time.
I think these conversations areso healthy, but I really,
really enjoy them and the factthat you included me in this
means a lot to me and I've beenlooking forward to it since we
got it set up.
But yeah, I love this and youand I most of what we do is in
the background and stuff, andyou make a thousand different
decisions about those things inthe background and then so to
(52:00):
have a chance to talk about thatstuff in a conversation like
this, it's really life-giving,so I love it.
Yeah, I'm very grateful to havethat opportunity great.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
You're a good writer, you're afunny writer.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
So there, there see it.
So that's really kind of you.
Thank you all right, kind ofyou, thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
All right.
Well, for Jay Webster, this isScott Townsend.
Thanks for watching, listeningto the Scott Townsend Show.
Have a great day, everything'sgoing to be all right and we'll
talk to you later.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
The Scott Townsend Show is a Deto man production.
For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show YouTube
channel.
Listen on Apple Podcasts orwherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Ever wondered what songs should play at your
funeral or why school cafeteriasare a breeding ground for
anxiety?
Today, I'm joined by JayWebster, a filmmaker, humor
columnist and the mind behindPioneer Dreams Production
Company.
He's also the award-winningauthor of the Bird and the Moon,
(00:20):
not to mention a husband, afather and all-around great guy.
We'll be diving into his latestbook you Really Don't have to
Read this and exploring whysmall is the new big and why we
often stay silent when we seesomeone doing something well.
It's a conversation that willmake you rethink the little
(00:41):
moments that shape our lives.
So stick around.
Welcome to the Scott TownsendShow brought to you by
Dietzelman Productions.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Softball question what did you have for breakfast
this morning?
So we listened to some otherpodcasts here and there, and
there was a podcast recentlythat had a book called I want to
say it's new energy orsomething like that.
Anyway, it's the latest thingon what you should eat, what you
should avoid and all that kindof stuff.
And and that's my wife isactually the one that uh,
listened to the interview andthought, oh, we gotta get this
(01:17):
book.
And so she bought the book andit was, um, maybe not a surprise
.
It was all about everythingyou're eating is the wrong thing
you're eating and you need toclean all it up and do organic
and all that.
So for the last month we'vebeen trying to do more of that,
and part of that has included,like flaxseed and flax meal and
(01:39):
that kind of stuff, and so wehave been doing.
We call them flax bombs andthat'll let you know exactly
what they do, but uh, but theyactually kind of make these
muffins and all that kind ofstuff and so.
But we were out of eggs today,so I added the flax meal to
oatmeal and, uh, doubled up onthe grains and that's what we
did, so yeah, so if you have toexcuse yourself, we understand.
(02:02):
It's a run, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So is there some reverse psychology in this title
?
You really don't have to readthis Well yes and no.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's funny because a lot of that book is made up in
some form or fashion.
I have a monthly column that Iget to do, and I have for
probably 10 or 12 years, andpart of the idea behind the book
is, you know, for me I put alot of thought into each of
those columns that you everymonth, and probably more hours
than I really should, and but itonly has a 30 day shelf life.
(02:44):
I mean, once the next episodeor next issue of the magazine
comes out, most people disregardthe one previous.
And uh, oh, my gosh,considering how much each of
those things have meant to me,it's terrible to me that it's
just done in 30 days or less,and uh, so I thought it would be
nice to go back and revisitthat.
There's also a number of essaysthat I have written that were
(03:06):
not right for the magazine, andthe magazine told me that, and
so I thought but they wereimportant to me and so I went
back and rewrote those.
So, but within that you knowall those columns which I try to
make funny and all that there'salso a lot of opinion and
everybody has an opinion, and Idon't know why my opinion would
be more important than someoneelse's.
(03:27):
So the title is a littletongue-in-cheek, which is no
one's forcing you to read thisIf you don't agree with the
opinion or you don't find itfunny don't read it, and that's
okay.
But yeah, it is meant to befunny on the other side of it.
So, like on our title um coverof the book, it actually says
you really don't have to in verysmall font and then read this
(03:49):
is in a large font.
So when you look at the book itjust says read this right for
most people, yeah.
So yeah, it's.
It's kind of letting people offthe hook.
You know we you and I do a lotof creative stuff and and you
know what that process is liketo try and get uh people to
listen or be involved in yourcreative process.
And then people will do thesame thing for you.
(04:10):
They'll say, hey, I want you tolisten to this or whatever.
And that is a tremendous burdento put on people a lot of times
to listen to a whole album ofmusic they don't know anything
about, or read a book they don'tknow anything about, and so, um
, I just wanted to go into itfor myself and for others as
lightly as possible.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You know, that's where that's how it kind of came
from so what's the key theme ormessage you hope readers take
away from this book?
The book's very hopeful.
I, I, yeah, let me, let me.
I'll just uh, let me just saysomething real quick.
Uh, this book, before we gettoo much deeper into it.
Uh, this book really took meback, uh, to man.
(04:49):
It was like going down a memorylane.
Uh, you talk about the cars andthe music and you know things
kids go through and I rememberall of that stuff.
The lunch boxes in thecafeteria, the uh, lunchbox
versus a paper, brown paper sack, you know, and the angst around
(05:09):
that.
As a kid man, that's.
That's so tragic.
You know, if you have, yes, ifyou don't have, the lunchbox
anyway.
So, uh, it just, it was man.
And and then bartlesville too.
I mean, it seems like it's alove letter to your family, to
your friends and to Bartlesville.
(05:29):
But really, if someone'slistening to this and they're in
Pennsylvania, it's also.
You don't have to be fromBartlesville to appreciate it,
because it deals with a lot ofuniversal themes.
You know, I don't care whereyou grow up.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I think a lot of it.
You know, I don't know you growup.
Yeah, I think a lot of it.
Uh, you know, I don't know that.
I, you know I didn't set out towrite this.
You know, thematicallythroughout all those columns,
but when I look back at it,probably it's it's.
You know, whatever you valuewhen you get to do something
like a column, whatever yourvalues are or your perspective
is, that's what ends up kind ofbleeding out into the column or
(06:07):
the writing itself, and so youknow, it's not a I don't need to
go on to where we are right nowas a culture in America and
really what we're experiencingin America I don't think is
unique.
I think you can, you can see alot of the same conflicts in
Europe.
You can see it in other, inother parts of the world, and so
I lot of the same conflicts ineurope.
You can see it in other, inother parts of the world, and um
, so I I appreciate theopportunity to a poke fun at
(06:29):
ourselves and call you know,call ourselves out on some
things.
So the idea that somehow, youknow, only the other side has
crazy people or only the otherside has bad people and we never
get to recognize our ownfailings on our own side, that
part of it, but then I think alot of it was trying to put a
halt on the idea of makingpeople one-dimensional.
(06:52):
So if someone is of the otherpolitical party or of the other
religion or the other thing, wehave this kind of caricature of
them and we really hold them tothat image.
And the more that we can breakaway from that and engage other
people, I think the healthier weget in that whole conversation.
So, understanding what theother side quote fears,
(07:13):
understanding what motivatesthem, understanding what we're
trying to work out and that weare all much more human and
together than maybe what we'refeeling in this moment, that's
really important to me.
So I think that is the hope ofit.
You know, the hope is oh, weare.
Despite the rhetoric, we'rereally not as far away from each
other as we think we are.
(07:35):
And the more we shrink thatdown into our little town in our
case Bartlesville and ourlittle communities and our
neighbors, the more we candiscover.
Oh, oh yeah, we really are moreconnected than maybe we know on
a national basis talking aboutrepublicans and democrats.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
You uh mentioned something in the book that I
thought was uh, I really had aproblem with.
I wrote I was offended by thethought that jesus isn't
republican.
What, totally kidding.
But uh, yeah, it's.
Uh, you know, you can play offthat kind of stuff, have some
fun with it and and forceyourself to think okay, so, okay
(08:13):
, so if he isn't republican andif he isn't democrat, then what
is he?
And where do we all fall inthat you know?
because I think we all tend tothink that uh is whoever we are.
You know, yeah, maybe that'strue to everybody, but you know,
we try to also pigeonhole himinto a certain look or a certain
(08:34):
description, kind of forget, or, or we short sheet the idea
that he's so much more than justa absolutely wig, or, and
that's, I mean, that's reality.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I don't need jesus to look like me.
Yeah, though, that though Ispent a lot of my time trying to
make him someone much smarterthan I am had made that point
that you know that this this godof our creation, that you know
that we have done a lot to tryand make sure that God looks
like us and has our values andhas our interests at heart, as
opposed to someone who's biggerthan us and something that might
(09:18):
actually transform us from ourcurrent state into something
better than who we are right now.
So, if Jesus only looks like meand he thinks like I think and
he values only what I value,then, I'm already there, I've
already reached this, you know,deity status.
But if there's someone biggerthan me, something bigger than
me that is calling me to changeor calling me to a better
(09:41):
version of myself, then I shouldbe interested in that.
And so, yeah, I did kind of doit tongue in cheek, because, you
know, oklahoma is about as reda state as you can get.
Republicans are a supermajority here and most national
campaigns they will callOklahoma before they call
Florida, and that's on the EastCoast.
So, you know, in our case,poking that you know, poking fun
(10:04):
at that and being open to thatis really really important, and
it is, it is the stuff that endsup troubling us or pausing us
for a second.
It oftentimes is the thing thatit can also be the most helpful
in our lives.
So there's an awful lot inChristianity that offends my
(10:27):
senses and offends my comfortand offends me on a lot of other
different levels.
And that's the healthy part ofit for me.
That's the part that says, oh,I must be in the right place, I
must be in the right class andtaking the right courses,
because this is really difficult, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, so let's dive into the book just a little bit.
I want to kind of give thelisteners those are watching
kind of a taste of uh, what theymight be able to expect from
the book a lot of great, uh, alot of great stuff here.
I usually, at night, um, mywife and I will sit out in the
(10:58):
backyard under our umbrella onthe patio and, uh, I'll have a
stack of books.
I usually have like three books,four books that I'm reading at
once you know, yeah, so we wouldsit outside and I was reading
this one and, and almost everynight when I got through with,
uh, my reading, I'd look over ather and say, man, this is, this
is just a really good book.
(11:19):
It's funny and it's poignantand, uh, it's hopeful, and yet
it's uh, you feel there'sthere's a little uh tugging at
the heartstrings.
Uh, not tragic, but uh, I wasthinking of that one where you
said, well, let me just startfrom the beginning, we'll get to
it.
Chapter two big.
(11:40):
Um, yeah, talk to me about thechapter bit.
Well, here, let me start offwith saying, uh, after 30 plus
years of chasing bigprofessionally, I think I have
finally discovered the missingsuccess factor is small, small
communities and smallinteractions that leave a big
impact, small things that makeyou laugh, small stolen peace
(12:01):
moments or places your mind goesto when you're quiet, small
points of focus you can go toand reset your mind.
Uh, small is a stone that makesthe ripples the first step of a
long journey, the idea thatlater changes your whole way of
thinking.
Don't underestimate small.
Yeah, what's small mean to you?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I mean it sounds like you were at first thinking
everything needed to be big andgrand and you're kind of missing
the every, every hero storystarts with something small,
someone small, some smallbeginning and and, uh, yeah,
part of our american mythology,of course, is this idea that we
(12:44):
grew up with with and where youcan be anything and you could be
president of the United Statesif you want to be, and there's
nothing, you know, there'snothing that's going to stop you
from achieving your dreams andthis, that and the other, which
you know, is true to an extent,you know, but it also for me,
and I think parts of mygeneration also seeded this idea
(13:04):
that I, oh, that means I haveto be big.
I better get on the stick andfind this whole thing.
Whatever is your purpose inlife, the vision for your life,
you know, on and on and on.
And we were.
We had done a book club for adifferent book called Big Magic
a year or two ago, and there wasa friend of ours who was.
We had probably about 20 peoplein the club and it was a really
(13:27):
fantastic thing.
If you ever get a chance to doa book club, it's fantastic
because the book is just anexcuse for your conversation.
So somewhere in there, uh, alady who's uh 60 something said
uh, I grew up and in my entirelife, my parents always told me
God has a plan for you, that isa purpose for you.
(13:47):
And here I am now.
I'm a widow and all the kidsare gone and I'm alone and I'm
thinking did I miss it?
Did I miss this?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
plan, because the plan was all that about.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, so the plan was supposed to be big, the plan
was supposed to be grandiose.
I was supposed to do thisheroic quest and so for us, you
know, in a creative field, whenwe first started, that was
absolutely the goal.
We wanted to do big movies, wewanted to do big music videos,
we wanted to make a bigimpression.
Little further down the roadand maybe that big does not look
(14:25):
like you thought it was goingto look, and then you have to
say so did I fail?
Or is my life incompletebecause I didn't achieve big at
that level and um?
or what you thought, yeah, andI've been a part of that
conversation from the book clubwith, uh, big magic starts out
this conversation about how fameor notoriety that's still like
a relatively new hundred yearold concept.
(14:47):
And if you were a musician,beyond that point, you just
simply went from town to townand played and there were 20 or
40 people and and the fact thatyou were making a living doing
music, that or or being agesture or whatever, that was
amazing, that was great.
Do that thing.
And it's only recently thatwe've cut this craving for a big
audience, and so it's taken anawful lot to trade in big for
(15:12):
small, but but within that hascome, I think, a greater sense
of community.
So instead of always looking togo away to somewhere else and
be known somewhere else and thencreated this bigger following,
it is the depth of theserelationships that I have found
to become much, much moreimportant.
So when we came out of thepandemic and we started doing
(15:36):
events and gathering peopletogether and all that kind of
stuff, they were not largegroups, they were, you know, 20
to 30, 40 size groups.
But the intensity of the peoplewithin those groups and how
much they desired to connectwith people again.
That was intense and that hasbeen the thing that's, I think,
(15:56):
changed us.
So you know, I guess thequestion is would you rather
deeply impact and connect with10 people, or loosely, or
broadly, or forgettably, connectwith a thousand people?
So, yeah, we can do thosethings and you can create that
kind of buzz and you can connectwith a thousand people, but
that may not last for you, butthe 10 people who will be with
(16:19):
you till the end, that'simportant.
That's a deep thing.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, and the reality is there's only so many big
spots available.
So if you're chasing that, it'slike growing up with a dream of
being in the NBA.
That's really only going tohappen for a very small group of
people, so you better be okaywith this announce in the
process.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Thank you for joining the Scott Townsend Show.
We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Hey, if you're enjoying the episode, why not
share the love?
Spread the word with yourfriends and family.
And hey, don't forget to hitthat subscribe button so you
never miss an episode.
Got something to say I'd loveto hear from you.
Shoot me an email at scott, atscotttownsendinfo, and let me
know why you decided tosubscribe.
Your feedback means the worldto us.
Uh.
(17:17):
The other one, uh, cosmic kid infull costume dress yes, oh, man
, this one paragraph.
All the other kids hadsuperhero lunch boxes with
matching thermostat thermoses.
I dragged and a.
I dragged and recycled a brownbag.
Each day at noon my lunch,neighbors would unload oreos and
(17:39):
capri suns and fruit roll-upsand whatever edibles came with
the tv jingles.
With tv jingles, yeah, Iusually pulled out a mostly
thawed bologna sandwich which myworking mom wisely pre-made and
froze weeks in advance.
The ketchup was always the lastdefrost and I that takes me
(18:00):
back to the Mountain View inTexas, the elementary school
that I went to, and the smell ofbologna and Fritos.
I still can smell that to thisday and I remember having.
I mean, I was fortunate enoughto have a lunchbox and it was.
You know, to have a brown paperbag, like I was telling you
(18:23):
earlier would just be, you know,for a kid so devastating, and
yet you seem to handle it reallywell.
You weren't too scarred from it, doesn't look like?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, well, yeah, that title for that chapter
actually comes from a BruceSpringsteen song.
Some of the listeners will know, but it's from a song called
Growing Up, and yeah, it was.
That's the first moment, Ithink one of the first moments
where you discover us versusthem for the very first time.
(18:52):
So that's the moment where youbegin to assess who you are, who
your is, uh, versus thefamilies and the persons around
you.
And so you show up to schooland you begin to notice your
sneakers or tennis shoes versustheir sneakers or tennis shoes
or your clothing versus.
And then in the lunchroom, itwas always that, so people would
(19:14):
show up with a lunchbox and amatching thermos and then they
would be whatever the snack dujour was.
So in our, in my era, was uh,you know, is this the uh,
punchable, um sunken stuff andall that kind of stuff and all
the prepackaged foods, and andso my mom and dad were divorced
very early and uh, we you know,my mom was kind of the
(19:37):
definition of the working poorat the time, and so we just
didn't have it, and so whateverwe had, it would always be like,
you know, saltine crackers anda bologna sandwich and maybe an
apple or something and everybodyelse was rolling up Rolo Pops
and you know all that kind ofstuff and, like we said,
anything with a jingle they hadit.
(19:57):
Yeah, marketing and a box yeah,and you see, you did notice and
I, you know, my, it was funny,as my uh daughter who's uh
almost 13, she doesn't reallylack anything uh.
But we but we both kind of hadlonged for, um, the cafeteria
lunch because it always smelledso good.
And then, you know, that waskind of a level playing field
(20:19):
too.
Anybody that got a tray, youdidn't know who they were, where
they came from, they just allhad the same tray and so yeah,
it did, I think, bother me a lotthrough probably sixth grade or
so, you know, when everybodyelse had the better shoes and
the better pants and all thatkind of stuff.
But that just played into aninsecurity you already had.
(20:39):
I was, I was really awkward as akid.
I was too tall, my feet weretoo long, I was too thin, I was
not coordinated, I wasn't goodat a lot of stuff, I had
dyslexia, I needed glasses and Ididn't know it, and so I was
perpetually the class Tom,because I would just get
distracted and and didn't knowwhat else to do with myself.
So you know, being saddled by alittle bit of minor poverty
(21:05):
only played into, you know how Ialready felt about myself
anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Did you feel like you were in poverty?
Or did you feel like, did yourealize that there?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
wasn't enough, or did you just Not?
No, not until later in life didI kind of know where we were,
but we had.
I came from a really largeIrish Catholic family and they
were fun, and so I felt goodabout all that.
And I don't think you're asaware, you know.
I think you know the way thatpoverty might have impacted me
(21:36):
in that level was just simply,probably in some way I felt like
that was just more of me.
I'm just not as good aseverybody else, um, but but you
know I had a really securechildhood.
I would always.
I slept in the same house, inthe same bed, I was with my mom,
everything was good and itwasn't.
There was no upheaval ordisorder or that kind of stuff.
My mom really made sure of allthat.
(21:58):
So, um, I wasn't, I wasn'treally aware of the pot until I
got out of it and went back andlooked at that stuff and, and
you know like I have since takenmy daughter back to the first
house we lived in when we movedto bartles road from kansas, um,
and it's literally on the traintracks, beside the train tracks
(22:19):
, and my mom and I came backfrom being somewhere one night
and there were police carseverywhere and the house is deep
on the west side, where we livenow, and so there are police
cars everywhere and we gotstopped by the cops on our way
into the house and the cops saidwhere are you going?
and my mom said well, this iswhere we live, this is my house,
(22:41):
it's not anymore you got to getout of here and you know it was
that bad a spot and uh.
So now I can take my daughterback and it's it's.
I'm not trying to, you know,warp her or get points, I just
want her to know how good wehave it yeah now because we're
living in a, in a lifestyle, ina way that most people just
(23:01):
simply don't you know, even inour community.
So I just want her to be ableto appreciate how good we really
have it, you know, whateverlevel it's yeah participation
ribbon.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
This was a good one, and there's one thing in here.
Hang on a second.
What I liked about this one wasthat it really shows off your
comedic writing.
Just good writing for one, butcomedic writing, yeah.
On the last last part havingleft my thirties long ago, I
(23:37):
often feel like I left myathletic triumphs in the pocket
of another decade's pants.
I just thought that was apretty clever sentence.
That's okay.
I refuse to go quietly into theexercise night.
I'm more than happy to holdthat blue participation ribbon
up high.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Just a good.
Just wanted to bring that upbecause I thought that was a
good, a clever turn of phrasethere.
Difficult either to find thetime to work out or to keep
yourself healthy, or justbecomes harder to do that, and
in the last couple years that'sbecome much harder for me.
And so then you have to decide.
If I can't achieve the samelevel of physicality that I did
(24:30):
10 or 20 years ago, am I goingto simply quit, or do I just do
what I can do?
And so coming to grips withjust doing what I can do has
really been healthy for me and,I think, probably changing my
values in that.
So I just want to be able tobend over and tie my shoes
without grunting and be asmobile as possible, for as long
(24:54):
as possible.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
What is it?
I've noticed, every time I sitdown or stand up, I have to make
a noise oh yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
What is that?
It announces it?
I'm standing, I'm getting readyto stand up here, everybody
watch out yeah and the nextchapter that I I really enjoyed
this.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
This and another one kind of went hand in hand uh see
it, say it, yes, and the let'ssee what was it?
The other?
Uh, see it say it, and then uh,oh, uh, under communicating
yeah being the undercommunicator.
Uh, see it, say it.
I.
I like this chapter onlybecause not only because, but
(25:38):
because a lot of times, well,you pointed out why this is a
good reason to.
If you see it, say it.
Now, here's the really coolcool thing If we have been
transformed at some level bysomeone recognizing the good in
us, then, by proxy, we have thatsame power to help transform
others.
Yeah, how often do we thinkabout how good someone is at
(26:00):
something and that's as far aswe go?
Or maybe we tell those we'rewith, but not the actual person
or human.
How does that help them?
The reality is, when werecognize the good in someone
and tell them, the result isthey go on to do more good.
We help grow the good.
So, yeah, why don't we saythings to people when something
(26:25):
you know, I see it all the timeand it's like, uh, we have, we,
we're very, uh cautious aboutdoling out niceties,
congratulations or what it'slike we, we have a budget and we
can't, you know it's unlimitedI really struggled trying to
(26:46):
figure out why that is.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I you know, if I look at myself, I can say, oh well,
uh, most often if I don't saysomething to someone else, it it
falls into two categories.
One it'll be awkward If I stepup to someone I know or barely
know and I tell them what Iappreciate about them or what
(27:08):
skill I really think isfantastic in them.
There's a really great chancethat's going to be awkward, and
I've done that.
If you go to a restaurant andyou're talking to somebody on
staff there or something likethat, and I've thought to myself
golly, this person is above andbeyond the normal waiter or
this person, even the way theypresent themselves or what they
(27:30):
wear and all that kind of stuff.
And so I try to be brave enoughto say that.
And when you break that barrierbetween the customer and the
worker or something like that,it's jostling for a lot of
people because they're in aworld I'm here to serve and I'm
in this world right now.
But when you break that downand become human with people,
(27:52):
again it takes a minute, and sothere's that part of it that's
awkward takes a minute, and sothere's that part of it that's
awkward.
The other part of it, I thinksometimes and we see this a lot
in our world is people justassume you know.
So if you are a greatinterviewer, if you are a great
(28:13):
singer, if you're a great writer, whatever it is, people just
assume oh, you must already knowthat.
I don't need to draw moreattention to the fact.
And the reality is most of usare really insecure or we just
appreciate the fact thatsomebody else enjoyed something
that we did.
So I think those two things arereally hard.
And then we I think the thirdthing probably is we just get
distracted.
(28:33):
We are so busy working throughthings that the idea of stopping
and acknowledging but it's sucha powerful thing and the, uh,
immediate connection we havewith another person by quote,
seeing them and then andacknowledging the goodness in
them, is amazing.
And then you know, as you'rereferencing in the, you know the
(28:54):
whole thing about when you sayto someone you're so good,
you're such a great friend,you're such a, you're so
hospitable, you're so courageous.
All that does is multiply thegood because they go on to do
more good.
Now they think to themselvesthat's, I can do more of this.
So when I was about 17 or so.
(29:17):
I would literally just talkingabout this.
Last night, when I was about 17or so, I met Anjanette, who
would become my wife, and I mether family and if you know her
dad, jason at all, that's who heis.
He is the king of see it andsay it.
He's the king of seeing good inpeople and telling them.
So when my soul was prettystarved at that moment and I had
(29:39):
this echo chamber going on inmy head about what a loser I was
, to have somebody, in my case,especially a male, step in and
say you know what I'm looking atyou and you are so x, y and z,
or you're so you said you knowthat my soul ate that up.
You know I and it.
It literally changed the way Isaw myself and and changed the
(30:01):
course of my life, changed who II would have been and, um.
So the power of that littlething of seeing someone and
acknowledging the goodness inthem, even if it's how they do
their hair or how they do theirnails or how you know how courte
as they are, whatever it is,there's always something.
Uh, it is transformative whenit happens and it's a, it's an
(30:25):
amazing power that all of ushave, and it just takes so
little to actually use it it'slike we're all, uh, starved for
that kind of a thing.
We're like super dry sponges andjust one little, you know one
little drop, and it just soaksit all up yeah, I think in that
(30:48):
in those two chapters you know,speaking which, that what's I
think ironic about that isprobably the.
You know, the person that I'mclosest to and maybe the most
comfortable with is my wife, andand she's also probably the
person I have to be the mostintentional about recognizing
(31:08):
out loud the good I've seen her.
Probably because, you know,because I'm so comfortable with
it, I don't think to say it.
I see it all the time in mymind and she looks beautiful
today.
Or I can't believe howwonderful she is at taking care
of me or making sure my feelingsare met, whatever, whatever.
I think those things all thetime and I so rarely say them
(31:29):
out loud to her, which does herabsolutely no good.
I'm feeling that, I'macknowledging that, I think that
and I don't say it to her andit's troubling.
So I've, I've I've tried to bebetter at that, but I've learned
from both her and from her dadthat whole principle of see it
and say it, and it's soimportant there was a, an
(31:50):
example, um, that I had uhhappened to me, uh, there was at
work, there was uh.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
I won't go into all the details.
Make it long story short here,but or short story long uh,
there was this guy there and hejust basically said you know,
you really do a good job of whatyou're doing.
And I was like, oh yeah, that'scool, you know.
I just kind of played it off.
He goes no, I mean I've been toother places, um, and the the
(32:20):
guys in those the samedepartments don't do what you're
doing and I travel around allof them.
And I'm just telling you thatit it looked really good.
I was like after I was a wowman, that's yeah, I had no idea
that anybody even noticed.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I mean, I knew what I was doing.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I was trying to, you know, keep things nice and sharp
and you know whatever, but forsomeone to actually notice.
And then, and so it lit a fire.
That was that.
I just went off, you know, andto the point where our regional
marketing manager one of theguys uh, in corporate uh, came
(33:05):
by and he said he said that wewere doing better than any other
store that he had seen.
Oh yeah, he took a picture ofit and yeah, and sent it around
to others.
It was all because that one guysaid something, you know, months
ago or however long, just thatlittle phrase, and it went on to
(33:27):
, to the ripple effect, thebutterfly effect.
You know it just right.
I don't think we realize howimpactful something so small
like that back to your chapterbig how something small like
that can have huge, uh, I meanthe.
The company benefits from it.
Uh, the people, the customersbenefit from it, everybody
(33:49):
benefits from it, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And just because of somebody saying something so
small well, and I think younailed this other part of it too
, which is there's the initialinteraction.
You know someone sayingsomething, but then there is the
later reaction of you thinkingabout that and what that means.
And in my case, because I ammore or less a pretty awkward
(34:14):
communicator, especially face toface with a lot of people,
face-to-face with a lot ofpeople so I, I, you know, I
might acknowledge or seesomething in someone and say it
and they it doesn't necessarilyregister in that moment or maybe
they don't respond in a waythat I I kind of wish they would
says oh yeah, I hear whatyou're saying, but later they
will think about it, later theywill.
That they'll take that withthem and it will impact them
(34:38):
later.
So you might compliment someoneand they don't necessarily
respond in that immediate moment, but it registers and it is,
it's rewiring stuff in theirbrain, uh, and how they see
themselves, you know, later Iactually wrote in the book here
under, uh, the, the undercommunicating what was that the
uh?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
confessions of an under communicator.
Confessions of an undercommunicator.
I wrote at the end of thechapter why is it that we always
wait for eulogies and thefunerals to say something nice
about somebody when that, atthat point, does that person
know?
Good, you know, we're allreally good at that.
You know we'll get up and we'llcry, we'll laugh, we'll tell
(35:20):
funny stories and tell how greatthey were and stuff.
So why don't we?
Why don't we do that whenthey're alive?
You know, why do we save it upat the time when it won't do any
?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
won't do the guy or gal any good yeah, if you know,
if you sat down right now, youcould probably make a list of
five people that you really loveand respect in that same kind
of way that if they passed awaytomorrow you'd really be
heartbroken and think what is it?
I wish I could have told them.
(35:50):
And if you make that list now,you could say those things now,
say those things in a momentwhen they could hear it.
You could actually say, okay,these are five people that I
need to reach out to and just,it's going to be awkward and
it's going to be a weird momentembarrassing just let them know.
Uh, you know, I just appreciatethe way you've always stood by
me.
You've always stayed with me.
(36:11):
I appreciate the fact that,even when we don't see each
other for six months, I can callyou and it's like we've never
been apart.
Whatever that thing is, but itwill mean something.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I told my son he's in video production too.
I told him I said when I diewell before I die I want to do
my own uh, obituary.
Yeah, so, and and so you know,whenever one of the comes in and
sits down there, I am up on thescreen and say hey, everybody,
come on in and sit down.
You know we're going to getstarted here in about five
(36:46):
minutes, yeah, and then uh, andthen I'm going to say hey, you
know, hey, everybody, you know.
So here I'll let me just tellyou, you know, instead of
someone having to research this,who knows it better than me?
You know, I know where I wasborn and who my parents were,
and so I can go through all thatand I just think that would be
so fun.
I'm not looking forward todoing that anytime soon, but at
(37:08):
some point I think that would befun for the audience to.
You know just where is hereally dead?
Is he in the back?
You?
know, yeah, but just kind oftake it to a whole another level
of, uh, you know, just lightenup and you know it's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
It's okay, you know and I think that'd be a lot of
fun actually, so, and you'dfinally get to say the things
about other people you wanted tosay yeah, you mentioned also
the uh, the, the problem withpants, which is a great chapter,
super hilarious.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
But you, you bring in up in that the songs for your
funeral.
Yes, and I think about that alot.
And then when you wrote, when Iread that, I was like dang, I
mean I've already got a playlistthat I know I want played.
And if I hear a song I'll sendit to my son and say, here, make
sure this one gets in, you know, or whatever, but I was
(38:05):
surprised to hear that someoneelse does the same thing.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yes, yeah, and those are awkward conversations.
You know, my daughter and Ilove to have those kind of
conversations and it bothers mywife a little bit.
She just doesn't like to thinkabout stuff like that, but we
find it funny.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
That's great Things we do for love, and I'll wind up
with this one, the Shasta.
Starflight.
So what was that all about?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's a 1973.
Oh, as the chapter says, thisis an act of love, so it's uh,
it's a 1973.
Uh, shasta trailer.
It's.
Um, we, you know, of course we,everybody uh responded to covid
in different ways and, um, youknow, there's an awful lot of
that.
Now that's like I kind ofmissed in terms of the pacing
(38:56):
and all that kind of stuff.
But uh, so we responded by um,going camping and doing stuff,
and we went to turkey, mountainand tulsa and hiking and we
would go to and went to drippingsprings and all that kind of
stuff.
And then we ended up going outto osage hills to go tent
camping and and we had a greattime, though it snowed and
(39:16):
rained on us the entire time wewere there.
It was really funny and and Ithink over the three days you
know, combined internet and Igot about four hours of sleep
and Evangeline slept greatbecause she can sleep on a rock
and it wouldn't be a problem.
So when that was all over, wheninternet said I really enjoyed
the camping, but I'm done withtents, I don't want to do that
(39:38):
anymore, and they just didn'tlike the idea of getting up at
two in the morning and going tothe bathroom with raccoons you
know.
So she did, she raised, she didsome research.
I did a lot of research andfound out that the starflight is
the smallest model of trailerthey made, that actually had an
indoor bathroom 17 feet long.
(39:59):
And uh, and I didn't want anypart of that project because, uh
, you know, we were already kindof working on remodeling a home
we had just moved into and Ijust didn't want or need another
project.
But so she stayed on it forlike another year and, uh, she's
a singer, songwriter, peoplemight know.
And so she saved up all of hergig money for a year and then
(40:23):
presented me with this letterand presentation saying this is
what I'd like to do and this isthe model that we want, and
here's the money for it.
And if you say no, you don'twant to do it, I'll respect that
, but this is really what I wantto do, and it's very difficult
to say no to somebody like that.
So then she did some researchand she found one in the very
(40:45):
south end of Oklahoma and wewent down and got it and it had
been stationary I think it hadbeen a camp trailer for somebody
for a while, so they had redonethe plumbing to go into like a
septic tank somewhere.
But they had treated it like acamping trailer so it had
multiple leaks.
It had a fire in it at somepoint.
It was pretty it had the 70swood paneling and it was pretty
(41:09):
dank in there, and so we broughtit back to Bartlesville, back
to our house, and took it backdown to the studs, which I use
that word very lightly thereit's toothpicks and foil.
It's like sausage.
You don't want to know howthose things are made.
And um, and we rebuilt it.
Did you know?
(41:30):
New installation, new electric,new everything.
And um, and now we can.
Now we continue to take it out.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So we, we take it out , you still have it.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I'm sorry you still have it.
We still have it.
It's in our driveway now.
It's red and white.
It gets compliments wherever wego.
It has a great little heat andair unit and it's just big
enough for like the three of us.
So the table drops down andcushions come out and that makes
a bed for Evangeline and thenthere's like a twin or full bed
(42:06):
in the back and it's a lot offun.
It I don't like it because yougot to drag it places and then
you've got to deal with thewastewater and all that kind of
stuff.
But but it's.
You know there's.
Those are the things we jokeabout.
You know that's that.
That's not anything I had aninterest in doing or being part
of.
But but when someone you lovewants something that badly,
there are places where you haveto yield and bend, and that was
one of them.
So it became an ongoing jokebetween us that you know and I
(42:29):
and I will still.
There's, there's a.
Our neighbor has a tree that isnot long for this world, as
they say, and I keep joking thatI'm praying for that tree to
fall onto the trail so we canjust be done with it because
every time we take the trailerout, there's something else that
has to be repaired, or yeah.
So it's the when, when we go out.
It's a tremendous amount ofwork for me on the front and
(42:52):
back side of it, but I will saythat what is unique about that
experience is, once you get outto wherever you're camping,
that's what you're doing.
You're camping and you're notmowing the lawn, you're not
painting the house, you're notdoing chores, and so there is an
arrested amount of time inthere where you're camping that
(43:14):
you get to kind of do that thingwhich is even different than
going to a city for vacation orwhatever because you're out in
nature kind of do that thing,which is even different than
going to a city for vacation orwhatever because you're out in
nature.
So Evangeline and I go fishingand her record has been perfect
so far.
She's caught fish on every tripwe've been on.
My record is perfect becauseI've caught no fish on every
trip we've gone on and we cookand we hang out and get to do
(43:36):
stuff that we wouldn't normallyget to do.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
So, even though I don't love the trailer, I do
like being with family thatworks out pretty well.
Yeah, in the chapter it says Ithought this was hilarious.
Uh, what the shasta also had,which we didn't know at the time
, was a sizable hole in theholding tank.
The holding tank holds, or issupposed to hold, just what you
think it does.
So with a hole in the shitterand triple digit temperatures,
the trailer smelled like a hotaugust rodeo going into day
(44:07):
three.
Yeah, man, that's right yeah,and that's always.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
That's always the contest in every trip is how's
the, how's the toilet gonna holdup?
How is it gonna?
Are we using the toilet?
Are we not using the toilet?
Yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
So what's the next book, man?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
uh, you got anything coming up uh, I have been toying
with some different things.
I don't have anything, uh,concrete yet, um, uh, and I I
miss writing on a regular thing.
I still get get to do thecolumn, which is nice, and I'm
just deciding.
So I was joking with mybrother-in-law this week.
(44:51):
It feels like in the creativeprocess that the further you get
away from something, the morelikely you are to discount it.
So, like my wife, ancient justreleased an album and it took us
the better part of six monthsor so, or longer, than actually
to put the whole thing together.
And somewhere in the middle ofthat came christmas.
So we had several weeks awayfrom the project and in the
(45:12):
midst of being away from theproject it was very easy to say
is it?
Is it anything?
Should we do we finish this?
Do we not finish it?
When you're in it and you'rerewarded with the creativity and
inspiration and the work of itand seeing some that fruit of it
, you stay with it.
But when you get away from it,so I'm kind of that way on this
project right now I I wrotesomething.
(45:32):
Uh, I I got about a year awayfrom it.
I realized it was the wrongtact or the wrong way to manage
it and I thought here's the wayit should be done.
But it's a really intimidatingproject for me and I need to get
back physically into it andthen decide is this something or
(45:54):
is it not?
But I don't want to decide thisfar away from it, you know, to
kill it, because it's too easyto do that when you're away from
it did you self-publish thisbook?
uh, yes, yeah which I think isawesome yeah, well, especially
with this book, you know it'swhen it's a um, I don't know an
(46:14):
opinion book or column book orsomething like that the only, in
most cases, the only reasonsomeone would buy that book is
because they know me or someonesuggested it to them.
So from a publisher standpointthere's no value in that book
for them.
It's not a genre book.
If it was a Western or amystery or a romance, you could,
(46:35):
you could maybe work that angle.
But just a strictly memoiropinion book it doesn't make
sense.
But it's been nice and I havegone to a couple of little book
shows and stuff here and thereand meeting people in that
process and just the involvementof that has really been
enjoyable.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, I bet, so I've got a title for your next book.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
You don't have to read this either.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Hey, you know, what's funny is so we were doing a
little podcast that I didn'tthink we would ever do.
My daughter was on a band trip.
They had to go to Silver DollarCity.
We were chaperones, and so mywife and I are in our own car
following the yellow bus all theway to branson, which is like
(47:25):
three and a half hours, and weget in to the, we're there in
the car, it's just the two of us, and so we start talking about
whatever it was, and then theconversation kind of bobs and
weaves and goes to places andends up in this kind of a
spiritual conversation.
And for most of our lives we'vebeen allergic to most things
(47:48):
publicly spiritual because, youknow, in our area of the country
that's a whole thing and it'sthe culture of Christianity
that's been difficult for a lotof people.
So we just don't really gothere and we're trying to be a
bridge for a lot of peopleinstead and but angie net said
about 30 or 45 minutes in thisconversation.
Um, I know this is a difficultconversation for a lot of people
(48:12):
that we're having.
I know it would be scary forsome people to have this
conversation, but it's so honestthat I think it might really
help people and that would bescary for some people to have
this conversation, but it's sohonest that I think it might
really help people and thatwould be an interesting podcast.
And so I we sat on that for along time and I just thought I
just don't know if I want to beinvolved in a podcast that's
(48:33):
spiritual.
I don't know if I want to doany of that stuff, and I and uh.
So then we decided we would doit, but we would just do it from
a standpoint of this isunfiltered, it is unvarnished,
it is honest.
It's a conversation that Ithink a lot of people could be
(48:54):
involved in, and and the realityof it is, if you don't like it,
you don't have to listen to it.
So that is the name of thepodcast that will come out and I
think it's in September is youreally don't have to listen to
it, so that?
is the name of the podcast thatwill come out in I think it's in
september is you really don'thave to listen to this and it's
just a kind of an unfilteredconversation about you know, for
us growing up in the bible beltand and we like to refer to it
as the bedazzled belt buckle ofthe bible belt and could we have
some?
we're not trying to convinceanybody of anything or
(49:16):
proselytize anybody on anythingor whatever.
We just want to have an openconversation that I think a lot
of people are thinking about,but they don't know that other
people are having that sameconversation.
So, uh, we'll see where thatgoes, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
But you're right, the other book title either, is
great yeah, uh, last questionwhat do you hope readers will do
after reading this book?
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Oh, I really, you know, if, uh, if there was more
uh, person to person contact,especially with people that, uh,
you know are not part of yournormal group, If you, if we stop
looking at people as onedimensional cardboard cutouts,
caricatures of, you know,Republicans or Democrats or
(50:04):
whatever grouping, and weengaged each other more, man,
that would be, that would be thehighest goal for me, Just the
idea that we would engage peoplemore, that we would be more
civil and loving and and learnhow much we really enjoy that
when we do it, if we can justget over the things that get in
(50:25):
the way of that.
So, yeah, more personalconnection with people would be
the goal.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, I totally agree, and nottake yourself too seriously.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Well, the book is.
You really don't have to readthis and, uh, highly highly
recommend it.
Need to go out and get you one.
So to get this book, I guessyou go you can go to really
anywhere.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, you can go to amazon, you can go to.
Bookbabycom is a great resourcefor that stuff.
But, yeah, anywhere that youfind books online, you can find
it there, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
If anybody wanted to get in touch with you, have
questions or comments after this, where would they send?
Speaker 2 (51:07):
them.
They can go tojwpioneerdreamcom.
There is a website calledSpeaking of Jay Webster and that
has some content.
I think it'sspeakingofjaywebstercom, so
speaking of Jay Webster, andthat has some content, I think
speakingofjaywebstercom and thathas some contact information
too.
But yeah, justjwpioneerdreamcom.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
That's the easiest way to email me and we can start
a long lasting friendship fromthere.
So any last words, I just soappreciate it.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
You know, you and I have known each other for a long
time.
I think these conversations areso healthy, but I really,
really enjoy them and the factthat you included me in this
means a lot to me and I've beenlooking forward to it since we
got it set up.
But yeah, I love this and youand I most of what we do is in
the background and stuff, andyou make a thousand different
decisions about those things inthe background and then so to
(52:00):
have a chance to talk about thatstuff in a conversation like
this, it's really life-giving,so I love it.
Yeah, I'm very grateful to havethat opportunity great.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
You're a good writer, you're afunny writer.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
So there, there see it.
So that's really kind of you.
Thank you all right, kind ofyou, thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
All right.
Well, for Jay Webster, this isScott Townsend.
Thanks for watching, listeningto the Scott Townsend Show.
Have a great day, everything'sgoing to be all right and we'll
talk to you later.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
The Scott Townsend Show is a Deto man production.
For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show YouTube
channel.
Listen on Apple Podcasts orwherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
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