November 24, 2024 • 52 mins
Unlock the secrets of impactful leadership with insights from Scott Townsend, who joins us for an enriching conversation led by the astute Liz Draven Hope. Discover how the timeless wisdom of historical figures like Jesus, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln can transform your leadership approach by emphasizing servant leadership and resilience. Scott shares how these icons, along with modern trailblazers like John Wooden and Walt Disney, demonstrate that "well done is better than well said," providing a blueprint for leaders who want to lead through their actions and not just words.
Explore the art of effective communication and adaptability as we discuss why clarity and understanding various communication styles are vital for leadership success. Scott reveals how the strategic use of checklists can drive organizational excellence, mirroring the precision of aviation and medical fields. Hear firsthand how fostering creativity and avoiding micromanagement can empower teams to innovate and engage more effectively, offering a fresh perspective on achieving remarkable outcomes. This episode is a must-listen for those eager to elevate their leadership game with practical advice and real-world examples.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by
Pizza man Productions.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome back to the Scott Townsend Show.
Today's episode is a specialone.
I'm the one being interviewedby the incredibly talented Liz
Draven Hope, and let me tell youshe's wicked smart.
Liz is in her first year of amaster's program at Oklahoma
Wesleyan University.
(00:27):
She earned her degree inpre-physical therapy and when
she's not hitting the books,she's the assistant coach for
the indoor and beach volleyballteam there at the school.
Liz approached me with thisidea to be interviewed for a
paper she's writing for theadvanced leadership theory class
(00:48):
.
She needed someone to interviewabout leadership and for some
reason not sure why she pickedme, but I was more than happy to
help.
So I suggested we do theinterview over Zoom so I could
turn the interview into apodcast episode, and Liz was
gracious enough to run with theidea.
(01:10):
Given Liz's background andfuture goals, our conversation
naturally touches on sports, themedical field, physical therapy
and leadership lessons in thoseareas.
I hope you enjoy thisthought-provoking discussion
with the brilliant Liz DravenHope.
Yeah, so I'm recording now.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Okay, sounds great.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, so I'll do some intros and stuff on my podcast
later, so we can just jump intoit.
Okay podcast later, so we canjust jump into it, okay.
Um so, elizabeth drake, hope.
Welcome to the scott.
Huh, oh, draven, not drake,that's dietrich's middle name,
(01:56):
dietrich's drake draven.
Yeah, yeah, great middle name.
So yeah, welcome to the.
So what do we got?
What do you got going here?
So what are we?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
doing.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
What's the plan?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I'm going to interview you for my paper.
This paper I have to write formy leadership class.
Okay, and I feel like you fitthe agenda.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Oh, that could be scary.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
It's not, it's well, uh, fire away, all right well
all right.
The first question who is theperson who has had the most
profound impact on you as aleader and or your leadership?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'd have to say my dad to start with, because I
just kind of do things the wayhe did, you know, and uh that
always worked out well for me,so that's good.
The other person that might bea good uh influence, uh from a
(03:03):
leadership standpoint, is jesus,because of his leadership, uh,
servant leader example theultimate george washington oh
interesting yeah, he's really agreat guy.
Uh uh.
Revolutionary war um, he was agreat uh great warrior and great
(03:28):
statesman.
Uh had a lot uh coming at himwhen the united states were
trying to form and he was justuh, he was just his own guy, you
know and everybody respectedhim and he demanded a lot from
people and and they theyappreciated that.
(03:52):
So right there's others, Iguess, but those would be some
of the top three okay, abrahamlincoln's another one oh.
You know, all these people thatyou and I are talking about
right now overcame extremeadversity.
There's no leader that doesn't,that's exempt, so there's
(04:14):
everybody.
You point to any leader andyou'll point to a story of
adversity and overcoming and uhbeing able to uh lead, point
people in the right directionyou know, or just a direction.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Doesn't have to be right, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
All right.
Well then you're ready for thenext one.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Why and how did this person impact your life?
Why and how did this personimpact your life?
Why and how?
So it's really just one personwe're talking about, which, I
mean, if you want to go aheadand say all three, that's yeah,
that'd be great too well from mydad, for example, led by
(05:03):
example by example wasn'thypocritical about anything.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Really, yeah, he meant what he said and he said
what he meant.
He was a man of few words anddidn't say a lot, but when he
did it was probably worthlistening to.
It was probably worth listeningto.
So there's a.
He was a very calm individual.
(05:30):
And I think, I think I kind ofget that from him.
I'm not boisterous and thumpingmy chest, everything has to be
my way, but I think that's whatI get from him from the example
(05:51):
of jesus.
That's just a leader, a servantleader, that's just somebody
who, for myself, tries toemulate, um, somebody who is
self uh, selfless, uh, human,humble, and puts other people
first before themselves and,once again, probably is a man of
(06:15):
few words, but when he spoke,people tend to listen yeah uh,
george washington was also a manof few words, was not one to,
was not very verbose.
He did do a lot of letterwriting.
But these, all these guys weremore interested in taking action
(06:40):
and getting people not to be aleader.
It was almost like they were aleader by default.
They didn't set out to be theleader.
It's just the way it was andpeople gravitate to that.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
If you're John Wooden or Walt Disney or Lee Cockrell
another one of my heroes WaltDisney or Lee Cockrell another
one of my heroes.
Walt Disney and Lee Cockrell.
John Wooden yeah, that toothese guys are.
You know, they don't spend alot of time talking.
Benjamin Franklin said wellsaid is better than no.
(07:23):
No, I'm sorry.
He said well done is betterthan no.
No, I'm sorry.
He said well done is betterthan well said.
So I kind of like that.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, I've never.
I don't think I've ever heardthat before.
Sounds like you've got a.
Uh, like there's a commonfactor in between everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Right, I hadn't really ever thought about that
before.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, you're saying it out loud.
There's definitely a commonfactor, but it's a good, a good
trait to have as a leader.
I think everyone should be likethat, but sadly we can't all.
It's not a perfect world.
We yeah right, yeah, all right,you ready for the next one?
I'm ready for the next one.
Hit me, all right, we, yeahRight, yeah, all right.
(08:05):
You ready for the next one?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm ready for the next one.
Hit me.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
All right.
Which leaders do you admire andwhy I feel like this kind of is
similar.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Right, I think I've already answered that one.
Why do I admire it?
Say it again, ask it again.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Which leaders do you most admire, and why?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, the three, four or five that I've mentioned up
to this point were just peoplewho got things done and people
were drawn to that kind ofinfectious enthusiasm,
infectious uh, uh enthusiasm.
You know, uh, walt Disney,starting off, uh, with uh the
(08:50):
black and white cartoons andthen made the first color
animated movie, snow White.
Uh, a lot of artists, a lot ofpeople wanted to.
You know, eventually, myselfincluded, wanted to work for the
Disney company, just becauseit's such a cool company, you
know, and they did great, coolthings.
And I got the opportunity towork for him after I graduated,
(09:11):
well, when I was in college, andthen after I graduated from
college.
But all these, all these peopledraw people to themselves
because they're doing greatthings.
They're doing the key wordthere is doing great things and
people, a lot of people don'tlive a purpose-driven life, so
(09:34):
they follow somebody who doeshave a purpose and they uh
gravitate towards those kinds ofpeople.
And so, if you want to be agood leader, you need to be a
good doer and uh put othersfirst, you know, and uh, not a
lot of, not a lot of talk yeah,I just thought jesus ties in.
(09:58):
It definitely ties into thatright yeah yeah, he did a lot of
great things and he just walkedaround saying, hey, come,
follow me, do this, you know.
And then he would miracles,miracles, miracles.
And he didn't say, hey, nowwatch me, you know, watch this,
I'm going to do this.
He just did it.
You know, he didn't boast, hedidn't right, and probably one
(10:20):
person in history that had everyreason to boast.
I mean, you know, yeah the theone person who you know he shows
reason to boast.
I mean, you know, the oneperson who shows up on Earth.
You're going to figure heshould have the big announcement
and stars in the sky that spellout a savior is born.
But no, it's just a littlebitty kid in a little bitty
(10:43):
place, in a little bitty manger,because nobody else would let
him in.
Very inauspicious, inauspicious, but that's just the way.
That's just the way he didthings.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
That's great all right, you ready for the next
one?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm ready for the next one all right.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
What are the most important decisions you make as
a leader in your organization?
All right, you ready for thenext one.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'm ready for the next one.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
All right, what are the most?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
important decisions you make as a leader in your
organization.
The decision to communicate.
Yeah, that's a good one.
There's a lot of things thathappen and there's a lot of.
There's a lot of moving parts,yeah, and we get so busy that we
(11:32):
forget to visit with our teams,our staff, our colleagues, uh,
to talk about what needs tohappen.
And then, and then we don't,and then other people uh, and
then, and then your team doesn'texecute, and then you get
irritated because what youexpected didn't happen.
(11:56):
And so what's wrong with them?
Well, the thing that's wrong iswith you.
You didn't communicate thisproperly and you have to be as a
leader.
To be a successful leader, Ireally think you have to be
crystal clear, with yourexpectations crystal clear, and
that way the person walks awayfrom you going.
(12:17):
I totally understand exactlywhat she wants me to do.
And you have to approach adifferent people in different
ways.
Some people will get it rightoff the bat, and sometimes some
people need to be told adifferent way, and so, as a
leader, you're kind of achameleon.
You, you study people and howto get the most out of your
(12:38):
people, and some people are verysensitive.
You just barely say somethingand they totally get it.
And then other people you know,maybe a knucklehead, and they
need to say it like three orfour different ways, you know,
and then they get it.
But ultimately it's up to theleader to come up with crystal
(13:01):
clear communication.
Right?
If you're wondering why thingsaren't getting done, just look
at yourself.
It'll be because you probablydidn't, uh, communicate well
enough.
You know, in advertising theysay you've got to say you know a
commercial.
People don't hear yourcommercial until like the
seventh or eighth time that theyhear it yeah so, just when you
(13:22):
know your mom said, maybegrowing up, how many times I
have to tell you to blah, blah,blah.
That's exactly right that youhave to say it over and over and
over and over, and finally itstarts sinking in this, this is
really, this is really serious,this is really.
She really means it.
You know, I'm getting it.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So, as a leader, just when you get tired of saying
something, just when you'reexhausted, thinking these people
are just not hearing me, whenyou get to that point, then
they're starting to hear you.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
so you have to really have patience and dig in and
and reinforce your message overand over and over and over and
over and uh yeah, that's reallygood advice actually, because
with my with coaching it's itseemed like every time that I
would try to say something,nobody would respond, and that
(14:15):
was so frustrating, sofrustrating to me and I would
have to like.
I was like how do I need toscream on the top of my lungs
for somebody to hear me?
But, yeah, that's good advice.
I'm definitely going to takethat because, um, I definitely
struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So my dad used to say uh, loud voice, weak point I, I
honestly agree with that.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I it's just like I feel like you.
You don't need to yell to getyour point across at all as a
matter of fact.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
As a matter of fact, the lower your voice and the
quieter you are, then peoplehave to lean in to hear what
you're saying, and so youcommand more of their attention
by speaking softer.
Like tate roosevelt said, speaksoftly and carry a big stick
that's.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, I really like that, I really like that, I
really like that, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
What approaches do you use to ensure excellence?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
remains in ongoing focus organizationally.
Say that again.
What approaches do?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
you use to ensure excellence remains an ongoing
focus.
Organizationally, I'm a bigbeliever in checklists yep every
morning.
You know when you come to workor like this book.
Can I get this book out?
I just read this book not toolong ago by a surgeon the
(15:54):
checklist manifesto oh and uh,it's he.
Basically, in a nutshell, theycame up with checklists that
doctor surgeons can use to makesure that the surgery goes well,
that people live through thesurgery and that minimizes
mistakes being made.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The other thing is airline pilots they have a
checklist after checklist.
After they have a checklist forstarting the plane up, they
have a checklist for taking off.
They have a checklist for once.
They get up to whatever youknow altitude and then, if an
emergency situation comes up,they've got a checklist for that
.
Get up to whatever you knowaltitude and then, if an
emergency situation comes up,they've got a checklist for that
that they go through.
Yeah, why do we have thesechecklists?
because you want to ensure thatyou're, uh, executing properly
(16:42):
and you don't forget one of thesteps that you need to take
interesting so yeah, um, that'swhy at work sometimes they'll
have opening or closingprocedures and a checklist to
make sure that everybodyremembers, because everybody's
different.
You're going to remembersomething and I'll forget
something right, but if we'reboth looking at the same
(17:03):
checklist, I can see what you'regoing to do.
I can see what I'm going to do.
At the end of the shift, we cansee looks like everything got
done, or oops, we missed onehere, so we need to check this
one off and then we're good yeahso, um, so checklists really uh
(17:23):
, help, help with success,making sure that you don't
overlook something, and not onlyoverlook something, but that
you excel at what you're doing.
Right, and if, unfortunately,people think, well, an airline
pilot, a surgeon, of coursethey're going to have checklists
.
They don't want to leave ascalpel inside of the incision,
(17:43):
or you don't want to forget thatyour landing gear's down or you
know whatever, but you knowwherever you work.
That's important to you.
So when you have a morningroutine, it might be a good idea
to write down a checklist.
If you're leading a team, it'sa good idea to write down a
(18:04):
checklist of what needs to bedone consistently, so that you
don't forget anything.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So is it like just with that, is it like an
everyday goal kind of checklistlike that, or just I guess not
in overtime, like in, becauseI'm looking at it like like a
sports team, like my volleyballteam.
Would I write a checklist forgoals that day or would I do it
(18:35):
as like an overtime?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I think you would do it for the day and over time.
For example, athletes.
Okay, so today, well, you know,today's the most important part
.
It's today.
We are not tomorrow.
Yesterday is already come andgone.
So what are we going to dotoday?
So I want to make sure, as acoach, that you guys eat right.
So here's a checklist for whatyou're supposed to be eating
(18:59):
today, how much water you'resupposed to be drinking?
Okay, here's a checklist foryour fitness routine.
Let's make sure that you gotall the weights in, you've got
all the aerobic, all the stuff.
Now, uh, checklist how muchsleep did you get last night?
You're supposed to get eighthours of sleep.
Did you get eight hours ofsleep?
Or did you get seven hours ofsleep?
(19:20):
Whatever it is, you know?
Yeah, so these kind of thingsyou look at every day and if
people are being truthful, youcan see well, betty's only
getting five hours of sleep.
That might explain why she'snot up to par.
Or nancy is not eating, gettingall the nutrition that she
(19:40):
needs.
That's why her muscles are notdeveloping like all everybody
else yeah so these checklistsgive the coach and the assistant
coach staff and everybodysomething to look at to make
sure that the team is on point.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So then, when it comes time to play the game, I
mean you, both teams come to thefield to win.
You want to win, the coach onthe other side of the field
wants to win.
So who's?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
going to win Right.
It's the person with the bestprocesses.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Whichever coach has the best process is going to win
nine times out of ten.
So if you're, if you'repracticing at a high level of
efficiency and effectivenessversus the other coach that
doesn't quite have it down, youknow you're going to be the one
(20:38):
that winds up on top, becauseyour people get on the field and
they just execute and theydon't have to think about it
anymore right it's just musclememory, you know yeah yeah, it's
teamwork, it's knowing whereeach, everybody.
You know the people to the rightand to the left of me.
So to do that, you practice,and in practicing, like john
(21:00):
wooden, you know he'd start offwith showing you know, this is
how you tie your shoes.
You know something as basic asthat, but I think at the uh.
Basic as that, but I think atthe uh, and.
And.
So then, when the day comes toa close, you can look over and
say, well, we got this done, wegot this done, we got this done,
we got this done, we got thisdone.
Uh, it looks like we ticked allthe boxes, so tomorrow let's do
(21:23):
it again, you know yeah, yeahand it can get kind of boring.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
But right, right.
What was the name of that book?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I'm gonna write it down yeah, this is the checklist
manifesto by atul gawanda.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It's a-t-u-l-g-a-w-a-n-d-e okay, all
right, I'm gonna keep that formyself.
Yeah, for that for myself heckyeah all right.
Next question how is creativityand innovation fostered in your
(22:02):
organization?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That comes through when you don't micromanage.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So, liz, here's your task for today.
You're going to do X.
I need you to do whatever.
Do you understand what I'mtelling you?
Yes, you need to do this bythis time, on this piece of
paper, in this certain way,whatever yeah or not, not in a
(22:35):
certain way, but here's whatneeds to be done.
The goal is to make sure that wehave a clear understanding of
how many widgets we have.
Okay, so I'm not going to tellyou how to do it.
I'm not going to tell you howto count.
I'm not going to tell you.
I'm not going to tell you howto do it.
I'm not going to tell you howto count.
I'm not going to tell you.
I'm not going to follow youaround now.
(22:55):
I might follow you around onthe uh for like one or two
minutes to make sure that if youhave any questions, I'm there
to answer.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Okay, I see.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But after that it's up to you.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Because I've hired a smart woman.
That's why you're working forme right so because you're smart
and creative and innovative,you use your creativity and
innovation to figure out how'sthe best way to get these
widgets counted yeah as quicklyand as efficiently as possible.
Your approach might be one way,jimmy, your colleague might do
(23:28):
it a totally different way, butas long as it gets done within
the time frame, I don't careright and you don't have
somebody looking over yourshoulder trying to tell you how
to do stuff and so, and so youget to uh, you get to apply,
create a you know a creativeprocess, like liz is going to
(23:48):
say.
So what's the fastest way tocount these widgets?
You know they're all over thefactory.
Yeah, what's the?
Oh, that's a great cat yeahwhat's the cat's name?
his name is snoop snoop yeah soyou know you're, uh, you're
going to uh, let's say you'regoing to try to figure out the
fastest way to make count thesethings.
(24:10):
Jimmy might come along and saythe same thing, but he's going
to come up with a totallydifferent way than you would.
And what would really be coolis if I got you two together
afterwards and you guys sharenotes and then we find out
between you and jimmy we've comeup with an even faster way to
(24:32):
count these widgets rightcreativity, innovation.
We get better, stronger, fasterblah blah blah, boom boom
boom everybody's making moneyyeah, uh-huh, all right.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
What is one characteristic that you believe
every leader should possess?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
confidence, humility um and selflessness.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
If I'm not confident, then you're going to pick up on
that immediately and you're notgoing to feel comfortable
taking instruction from me,right, and you're going to feel
awkward.
It's going to be weird foreverybody.
Humility, because there'snothing worse than following
(25:41):
somebody who wants to be theleader, following the person
that wants to be the boss.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Those guys, gals, they kind of rub you the wrong
way, you know, because they wantto be in charge, they want to
be large and in charge.
They kind of rub you the wrongway, you know, cause they want
to be in charge, they want to belarge and in charge, and yeah,
and it's kind of it kind of rubsyour fur the wrong way.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, and if I had a leader like that, I don't think
I'd enjoy my job.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Right, a lot of people, a lot of people do.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So it's good to be humble and realize that you're
no better than anybody else.
Everybody puts their pants onone leg at a time.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Same way as everybody else.
Selflessness meaning Okay.
So I've got this job I need todo and Liz is on my team.
I got Liz and Betty and Jimmyand all these people.
Let's say we got 10 people onthe team.
If I'm, if I'm going to, ifwe're going to be successful, if
(26:51):
I'm going to be successful atmy job, you guys need to be
successful.
Be successful at my job.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You guys need to be successful at your job.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And when you're successful.
It's only then that I'msuccessful.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So it's incumbent upon me to make sure that I
remove all the hurdles out ofyour way.
Move all the hurdles out ofyour way, that I, that I help
you do the job you want, thatyou you know to help you do the
kind of job that you want to do,because you're a hired right
(27:26):
and you're a motivated employee.
So I just need to get out ofthe way and if.
Liz says you know what?
There's this, there's thisthing, there's this process.
That's it's really stupid andit's really slowing us all down.
Then it's up to me to get ridof it.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
It's not up to me to come up with all the ideas.
There's one of me and there's10 of you guys, so there should
be 10 times the ideas comingfrom you know than me.
Yeah me, yeah.
So, in the selfless, I need tosee you guys be successful and I
need to.
(28:02):
I need to invest in you andJimmy and Betty and Nancy on my
team to make sure that they areas successful as possible
because really, um, I need toget you promoted, I need to get
Jimmy promoted to get youpromoted.
I need to get Jimmy promotedand you know the, the
non-confident leader will keepyou suppressed because they want
(28:22):
to be the ones that aresuccessful.
They want to be the ones thatget promoted and they don't want
you, they don't really careabout you or you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
But the thing is, if you're, if my team gets promoted
and, like, all these people arejust flying out of my
department because they're sogood, my management staff's
gonna look at me and go dangScott, what are you doing over
there?
You know?
I mean, you know how to.
You know how to developchampions yeah so we're gonna
(28:55):
put you in another position overmore people, because we want
more champions.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
So that's where selflessness, putting others
first and helping them be thebest person they can be, the
best employee that they can beyeah, the best person they can
be, the best employee that theycan be.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, I think um something that I would say I
think every leader should haveis discipline in themselves,
because if you can't controlyourself, you can't control your
team or organization orwhatever.
Yada, yada, even in the smallthings, it's like if your alarm
goes off, don't be dead for anhour.
(29:39):
You know which I do?
Do that?
I, yes, I'm red-handed, butright it's something I don't
know like if I want to say thisfrom personal experience if
you're coaching, if you're goingto tell a player, hey, like I'm
(30:03):
not playing you because of thisreason, then don't put her in.
That's still discipline onyourself.
You can't just put her in thenext game.
I could go on and on and onabout this, but I think that's
one that I think honestly,everybody, everybody should have
, because then you won't berespected if you don't
discipline yourself and if yougo against what you said yeah if
(30:27):
you don't hold firm to yourword and you know I told you you
weren't going to play and sodon't uh, quit bugging me about
playing because you're notplaying.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
But if you give in, then they know they've got one
on you.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Then they'll try harder next time?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
All right, what is the Achillesheel of most leaders and what
can be done to overcome this?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
It's thinking that they can do it all.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
When they got to remember that we can't do any of
this without everybody on theteam.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
The Achilles heel, I think, goes back to
communication.
Communication is so huge.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
In a marriage, in a relationship, on a team, in an
organization, in a nonprofit, ifyou don't communicate?
And then you start wonderingwhy everybody is such an idiot,
why is everybody not doing theirjobs?
Why is why is it always up tome?
Why do I always have to be?
You know what is wrong withthem?
Do they not understand howimportant this is to me or to
(31:48):
the organization?
Well, the answer is no, theydon't because you haven't
clearly communicated.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So you can start off communicating very well through
emails and personal, but thenyou get busy and you start to
assume that people know what todo because they'll talk to each
other.
You know, and it's constanttalk about discipline.
(32:18):
It's a constant effort tocommunicate clearly and set
clear expectations right there'snot a day that goes by that you
can't get away with not doingthat yeah and so you, you fall
into thinking everybody can do.
(32:38):
It, knows it, I've I've alreadysaid it a hundred times, you
know.
And so then you go off doingyour own little thing, and then
you turn around and look andnobody's following you and those
that are following, followingor doing all the wrong things.
How'd this happen?
You know?
Well, I hate to tell you, butjust look in the mirror now.
(33:03):
If those, if there's people onyour team I keep saying that but
if you, if you do have peoplethat are not executing, that are
not, uh, you have been crystalclear and and you haven't, uh,
and they're not performing, youyou know those people really
need to leave.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's the hard part of the job, probably the hardest
part of the job, but you haveto do it because it doesn't help
the other team.
I mean, it doesn't help therest of your team.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
As a matter of fact, you show disrespect to your team
when you keep the ones thataren't performing on the team.
So then other people think well, I can be on the team and I'll
perform either, because she'snot going to get rid of them.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You know, yeah, it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
So now we're all going to suck and we're not
going to win any games, becausebut if we see that Liz is really
serious about this and she'sshe's only going to keep the top
performers on the team Not thatshe doesn't like the people
that don't perform- that hasnothing to do with it.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's just that, for whatever reason, you know, we've
worked with you, blah, blah,blah.
It's not working out.
You can't be on the teamanymore.
I'll write you letters ofrecommendations and I'll try to
help you.
You know whatever, but mymandate is to win games, and so
I need people on my team thatknow how to win.
(34:26):
So yeah my two cents there.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I like that, all right.
What do you look for in futureleaders?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
People that don't want to be a leader.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Elaborate.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Like I said earlier, if you find somebody that's just
chomping at the bit to be theboss, that ain't the guy or gal
I want to be around, becausethey'll step all over everybody
trying to promote themselves andthey forget.
It's not about you, it's aboutus, it's about the team.
But if you got somebody who's,like I said, humble and selfless
(35:11):
and confident, Selfless andconfident.
Now I got somebody I can workwith.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Easy as that.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Easy as that.
Okay, what makes for a poorleader?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
It's all the stuff that we haven't said.
It's a poor leader is notconfident.
They don't communicate, they'reall only concerned with
themselves.
It's just a.
It's just a crap show.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's just a.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
it's just a crap show , yeah yeah, it's uh, and
everybody's miserable andeverybody's trying to get out of
that department.
They're not getting anythingout of it.
They're not being rewarded.
Uh, they're not beingencouraged and recognized.
Um, the leader is just allabout themselves and putting on
a fake smile when the big bosswalks through and everybody can
(36:19):
see it, you know yeah, as soonas the big boss leaves, they go
back to their little snivelingways and everybody can see right
through it.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
So that's my answer there I'd say it's also leaders
who abuse their power yeah,that's, that's.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
That goes back to the lack of confidence.
They have to overcompensate.
So they're not confident, sothey think that they have to
really thump their chest and umput people in their place, you
know, and they gotta, they gottashow who's boss right, yeah,
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah um?
Speaker 3 (37:03):
what is the biggest challenge facing leaders today?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
that's a toughie, I'm gonna say.
It's always been the same thingsince the beginning of time.
Um, you know, someone said thisis a great place to work.
If only if it weren't for allthe people that work here.
(37:30):
You know uh it's.
The biggest challenge is is thepeople, and whether it's 1920 or
1820 or 2020, whether you'reyou got a horse and buggy or a
model t or a 63 bellaire or a2024 tesla, regardless of the
(37:56):
technology, regardless of thetime, the people pretty much are
all the same and people are thechallenge and so you have to be
a good uh, a good study ofpeople and uh know what, know
what uh how to encourage, how toinfluence people yeah for good
(38:18):
and to get help.
If you hire right, you don'thave to hire.
Like I said, you don't have tohire motivated people.
You just try to get out oftheir way, stay out of their way
and let them do their thingyeah but there are things that
will discourage them, or, and soyou have to come along and
encourage them, and yeah propthem up every once in a while
and give them kudos, and buthenry ford had to deal with that
(38:41):
, you know right um, any leader,churchill, lincoln, it's all.
It's all pretty much the samething.
It's the people, and peoplehaven't changed that much.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yeah, I've never really thought about that
actually.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, If you met a girl from 1776 at your age,
she's going to be concernedabout the same things that you
or your friends might be.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Am I going to get get married a date, or am I to this
or am I to that?
I'm not pretty enough, and youknow it's.
It's always been that, that way, same with guys, you know yeah,
yeah it's just the clothes arechanged, technology around us
has changed, but our desires andour what we think about have
(39:36):
pretty much stayed the sameright right so that's the
biggest challenge for leadersjust to know how to deal with uh
, the people know not how todeal with, and that's a bad way
of saying it.
Know how to work with theirpeople to so that their people
can do the best job possible hmm, yeah, I never really thought
of that.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I would try to think of something technical, but I
like that answer.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Pretty simple really.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, that really is what was your most significant
leadership mistake.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I made fun of somebody one time, just horsing
around and they weren't there.
But their colleagues told themwhat I did and he didn't like
that very much.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Oh, no, yikes.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Felt bad about that.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
That was stupid.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I mean, we all do stupid things.
That's how I look at it.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I'm the king of doing stupid.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Are you guys?
Did you guys know?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
What am I trying to say?
Like were you guys cool afterthat a little bit.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I mean it took a while, yeah, cool.
Now, okay, what advice wouldyou give to a young
up-and-coming leader who wantedto eventually become an
executive leader?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
don't worry about becoming an executive leader.
I don't even know whatexecutive leader means.
Um, either you are, you aren'ta leader.
Um, uh, you might want you, uh.
So focus, focus on yourinfluence on people around you
and know that people arewatching you and, and, and, and
(41:51):
you hope that you influence themin a good way.
Um, they're gonna.
You know, like you said, if youuh, if you're doing things
right, let's say, if you show upfor work and you're you're
you're not like super dressed up, but you know you dress nice
and take care of yourself andthe other if you'll notice, over
(42:15):
time, others are going to startdoing that too.
So you're kind of leading inthat direction right or if
you're the person at work thatdoesn't bad mouth the boss and
doesn't use foul language andyou've always got a great
attitude.
People are going to gravitatetowards that right and uh, they
(42:37):
want to be like that.
They don't know, they do, butyou know, if you model that type
of behavior, everybody likesthat.
Nobody likes a arguing.
Uh never has anything good tosay about anybody right, yeah,
the debbie downers yeah, debbiedowners, yeah, yeah and so, uh,
(43:01):
you know, as you go through life, and you've got your school,
you've got your papers, that youturn in your homework and all
this stuff um, as a leader, you,you especially when you're
working in groups, uh, if you'rethe one who knows how to kind
of get the group together, getthe group to talk, get the group
(43:22):
to and then delegate specifictasks to the group, help
facilitate that.
That's.
That's great practice forcorporate work or medical field.
Yeah, because you need the, youneed, you need people around
you to be successful.
This group needs to be.
(43:42):
If we want to get a on thispaper, this group thing, we need
to put a effort, you know yeahif we're in a physical therapy
clinic and everybody's doinggreat except for one that's just
really screwing up, um, that's,that's not too great.
And so, uh, you try to emulate,you try to show, you try to
(44:05):
model the type of behavior thatyou expect.
You show up on time, you getyour paper paperwork done on
time, you get your patient loadtaken care of, and the physical
therapy room is always clean andeverything's sanitized, you
know, and the receptionreceptionist is super cool.
(44:29):
Uh, it's all, that's allexpectation.
And so you as the doctor, youas the lead there, or or you're,
you might be one of the internsor somebody, but because you do
such a great job and you alwaysshow up on time with a great
attitude and do a good job, thenwhen your internship's over
(44:52):
with, then they're going to sayhey, you know what?
What can I want you to stickaround?
We kind of like that yeah soyou just kind of lead your way
into that kind of thing okay,what is?
Speaker 3 (45:08):
what is the one behavior or trait that you have
seen derail more leaders careers?
Probably inappropriate behavioryeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
That's a good one politicians, management yep,
there's a lot of people that, uh, that kind of thing can happen
and bad decisions.
You don't think anybody's goingto know or no one's going to
(45:39):
catch on, but someone alwaysdoes eventually yeah so it's
always a good stay above boardand and uh, especially the
higher up you go.
When they say you know, theysay the higher up you go, more
of your ass you show.
So everybody can see you knoweverybody's gunning for you yeah
(46:00):
, so don't give them an excuseto to uh or have a reason for
bringing it down yeah,especially when you can control
that right, yeah, yeah,especially when you can.
But that's Right.
Yeah, yeah, especially when youcan.
But that's the sad thing, youcan't control.
But just, you know a lot ofpeople don't.
(46:21):
Yeah, yeah that isunfortunately, get your hand
slapped, for you know stupidstuff.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Yeah, yeah, all right , I have two more questions,
okay okay all right.
What is your greatest regret,as it applies to leadership?
Speaker 2 (46:44):
caring too much about what other people think oh,
that's a good one.
That's a good one yeah, itreally doesn't matter what they
think you've got a job to do and, uh, you just need to get it
done, not be a jerk about it.
You know, think you've got ajob to do and, uh, you just need
to get it done, not be a jerkabout it, you know, but this is
what we got to do yeah sometimesyou, sometimes I worry too much
(47:05):
about whether people are goingto think about this, you know,
are they going to think I'm mean, or they don't agree with me,
or what?
it doesn't matter, it justdoesn't right, yeah at home, at
work with your friends, itdoesn't matter anywhere yeah
that's too often we.
What are they going to think ifI implement this change into
(47:27):
their volleyball team?
What are they going to thinkabout if I change this thing up,
you know?
Then they're all going to say,oh, you know, whatever.
Yeah, um, don't worry about it,just execute and don't worry
about what other people think.
They're probably not thinkingabout you anyway right?
Speaker 3 (47:48):
yeah, that's.
That is one thing that I hadtrouble with in coaching and
because I care too much, Ididn't have confidence in what I
was doing.
But as time goes on, as I'mlearning more about coaching and
stuff, someone's going to talkabout you.
You can't control that.
(48:10):
There's going to be at leastone person that doesn't like you
.
It doesn't matter.
You can't do nothing about itat all, you just have to be for
you and your team.
And yeah, you want.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
There's going to be one complainer and sometimes
that person needs to just moveon down the road exactly yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
So yeah, I like that, all right.
Last question if you had to doit all over again, what would
you differently and why?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I would have been more purposeful in my employment
, starting at a young age.
But once again, I cared toomuch about what other people
think.
Um, I didn't really have a plan, a purpose at a young age and
(49:08):
so I just kind of went from.
It's like I was riding a trainand when the train would stop
I'd get off and jump on the nexttrain and wherever that went,
that's where I went right.
Then it would stop, I'd get off.
There's another train, I'll geton it.
We'll see where this one goes.
I I would.
(49:29):
I would be more purposeful.
Yeah, I wanted to be a moviedirector when I was younger uh
always wanted to make movies.
I made movies in high school, Iwas a film major at ku my first
year, um.
And then I went to oklahomastate and got too interested in
partying and having a good timewith friends and uh, kind of,
(49:53):
from then on it just kind ofeverything just kind of and kind
of.
From then on it just kind ofeverything just kind of not spun
out of control.
But, um, I lost my focuspurpose and uh, now that I'm on
this side of life looking backon it, I'm kind of wishing I
(50:14):
wish I'd stuck with that yeah orstuck with something one thing
and just do really well at it,you know what did you um major
in?
Speaker 3 (50:27):
journalism oh cool, I like that, that's fun yep yeah,
well, that's all the questionsI got.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Well, good, well, I hope that helped.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Oh yeah, for sure I love, I love talking about
leadership.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
So for Liz Draven Hope, this isScott Townsend.
Thanks for watching andlistening to the Scott Townsend
show.
Have a great day.
Everything's going to be allright.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
And we'll talk to you later.
The scott townsend show is aDietz-O-Man production.
For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show YouTube
channel, listen on ApplePodcasts or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows you.
Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by
Pizza man Productions.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome back to the Scott Townsend Show.
Today's episode is a specialone.
I'm the one being interviewedby the incredibly talented Liz
Draven Hope, and let me tell youshe's wicked smart.
Liz is in her first year of amaster's program at Oklahoma
Wesleyan University.
(00:27):
She earned her degree inpre-physical therapy and when
she's not hitting the books,she's the assistant coach for
the indoor and beach volleyballteam there at the school.
Liz approached me with thisidea to be interviewed for a
paper she's writing for theadvanced leadership theory class
(00:48):
.
She needed someone to interviewabout leadership and for some
reason not sure why she pickedme, but I was more than happy to
help.
So I suggested we do theinterview over Zoom so I could
turn the interview into apodcast episode, and Liz was
gracious enough to run with theidea.
(01:10):
Given Liz's background andfuture goals, our conversation
naturally touches on sports, themedical field, physical therapy
and leadership lessons in thoseareas.
I hope you enjoy thisthought-provoking discussion
with the brilliant Liz DravenHope.
Yeah, so I'm recording now.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Okay, sounds great.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, so I'll do some intros and stuff on my podcast
later, so we can just jump intoit.
Okay podcast later, so we canjust jump into it, okay.
Um so, elizabeth drake, hope.
Welcome to the scott.
Huh, oh, draven, not drake,that's dietrich's middle name,
(01:56):
dietrich's drake draven.
Yeah, yeah, great middle name.
So yeah, welcome to the.
So what do we got?
What do you got going here?
So what are we?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
doing.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
What's the plan?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I'm going to interview you for my paper.
This paper I have to write formy leadership class.
Okay, and I feel like you fitthe agenda.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Oh, that could be scary.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
It's not, it's well, uh, fire away, all right well
all right.
The first question who is theperson who has had the most
profound impact on you as aleader and or your leadership?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'd have to say my dad to start with, because I
just kind of do things the wayhe did, you know, and uh that
always worked out well for me,so that's good.
The other person that might bea good uh influence, uh from a
(03:03):
leadership standpoint, is jesus,because of his leadership, uh,
servant leader example theultimate george washington oh
interesting yeah, he's really agreat guy.
Uh uh.
Revolutionary war um, he was agreat uh great warrior and great
(03:28):
statesman.
Uh had a lot uh coming at himwhen the united states were
trying to form and he was justuh, he was just his own guy, you
know and everybody respectedhim and he demanded a lot from
people and and they theyappreciated that.
(03:52):
So right there's others, Iguess, but those would be some
of the top three okay, abrahamlincoln's another one oh.
You know, all these people thatyou and I are talking about
right now overcame extremeadversity.
There's no leader that doesn't,that's exempt, so there's
(04:14):
everybody.
You point to any leader andyou'll point to a story of
adversity and overcoming and uhbeing able to uh lead, point
people in the right directionyou know, or just a direction.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Doesn't have to be right, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
All right.
Well then you're ready for thenext one.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Why and how did this person impact your life?
Why and how did this personimpact your life?
Why and how?
So it's really just one personwe're talking about, which, I
mean, if you want to go aheadand say all three, that's yeah,
that'd be great too well from mydad, for example, led by
(05:03):
example by example wasn'thypocritical about anything.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Really, yeah, he meant what he said and he said
what he meant.
He was a man of few words anddidn't say a lot, but when he
did it was probably worthlistening to.
It was probably worth listeningto.
So there's a.
He was a very calm individual.
(05:30):
And I think, I think I kind ofget that from him.
I'm not boisterous and thumpingmy chest, everything has to be
my way, but I think that's whatI get from him from the example
(05:51):
of jesus.
That's just a leader, a servantleader, that's just somebody
who, for myself, tries toemulate, um, somebody who is
self uh, selfless, uh, human,humble, and puts other people
first before themselves and,once again, probably is a man of
(06:15):
few words, but when he spoke,people tend to listen yeah uh,
george washington was also a manof few words, was not one to,
was not very verbose.
He did do a lot of letterwriting.
But these, all these guys weremore interested in taking action
(06:40):
and getting people not to be aleader.
It was almost like they were aleader by default.
They didn't set out to be theleader.
It's just the way it was andpeople gravitate to that.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
If you're John Wooden or Walt Disney or Lee Cockrell
another one of my heroes WaltDisney or Lee Cockrell another
one of my heroes.
Walt Disney and Lee Cockrell.
John Wooden yeah, that toothese guys are.
You know, they don't spend alot of time talking.
Benjamin Franklin said wellsaid is better than no.
(07:23):
No, I'm sorry.
He said well done is betterthan no.
No, I'm sorry.
He said well done is betterthan well said.
So I kind of like that.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, I've never.
I don't think I've ever heardthat before.
Sounds like you've got a.
Uh, like there's a commonfactor in between everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Right, I hadn't really ever thought about that
before.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, you're saying it out loud.
There's definitely a commonfactor, but it's a good, a good
trait to have as a leader.
I think everyone should be likethat, but sadly we can't all.
It's not a perfect world.
We yeah right, yeah, all right,you ready for the next one?
I'm ready for the next one.
Hit me, all right, we, yeahRight, yeah, all right.
(08:05):
You ready for the next one?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm ready for the next one.
Hit me.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
All right.
Which leaders do you admire andwhy I feel like this kind of is
similar.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Right, I think I've already answered that one.
Why do I admire it?
Say it again, ask it again.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Which leaders do you most admire, and why?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, the three, four or five that I've mentioned up
to this point were just peoplewho got things done and people
were drawn to that kind ofinfectious enthusiasm,
infectious uh, uh enthusiasm.
You know, uh, walt Disney,starting off, uh, with uh the
(08:50):
black and white cartoons andthen made the first color
animated movie, snow White.
Uh, a lot of artists, a lot ofpeople wanted to.
You know, eventually, myselfincluded, wanted to work for the
Disney company, just becauseit's such a cool company, you
know, and they did great, coolthings.
And I got the opportunity towork for him after I graduated,
(09:11):
well, when I was in college, andthen after I graduated from
college.
But all these, all these peopledraw people to themselves
because they're doing greatthings.
They're doing the key wordthere is doing great things and
people, a lot of people don'tlive a purpose-driven life, so
(09:34):
they follow somebody who doeshave a purpose and they uh
gravitate towards those kinds ofpeople.
And so, if you want to be agood leader, you need to be a
good doer and uh put othersfirst, you know, and uh, not a
lot of, not a lot of talk yeah,I just thought jesus ties in.
(09:58):
It definitely ties into thatright yeah yeah, he did a lot of
great things and he just walkedaround saying, hey, come,
follow me, do this, you know.
And then he would miracles,miracles, miracles.
And he didn't say, hey, nowwatch me, you know, watch this,
I'm going to do this.
He just did it.
You know, he didn't boast, hedidn't right, and probably one
(10:20):
person in history that had everyreason to boast.
I mean, you know, yeah the theone person who you know he shows
reason to boast.
I mean, you know, the oneperson who shows up on Earth.
You're going to figure heshould have the big announcement
and stars in the sky that spellout a savior is born.
But no, it's just a littlebitty kid in a little bitty
(10:43):
place, in a little bitty manger,because nobody else would let
him in.
Very inauspicious, inauspicious, but that's just the way.
That's just the way he didthings.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
That's great all right, you ready for the next
one?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm ready for the next one all right.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
What are the most important decisions you make as
a leader in your organization?
All right, you ready for thenext one.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'm ready for the next one.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
All right, what are the most?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
important decisions you make as a leader in your
organization.
The decision to communicate.
Yeah, that's a good one.
There's a lot of things thathappen and there's a lot of.
There's a lot of moving parts,yeah, and we get so busy that we
(11:32):
forget to visit with our teams,our staff, our colleagues, uh,
to talk about what needs tohappen.
And then, and then we don't,and then other people uh, and
then, and then your team doesn'texecute, and then you get
irritated because what youexpected didn't happen.
(11:56):
And so what's wrong with them?
Well, the thing that's wrong iswith you.
You didn't communicate thisproperly and you have to be as a
leader.
To be a successful leader, Ireally think you have to be
crystal clear, with yourexpectations crystal clear, and
that way the person walks awayfrom you going.
(12:17):
I totally understand exactlywhat she wants me to do.
And you have to approach adifferent people in different
ways.
Some people will get it rightoff the bat, and sometimes some
people need to be told adifferent way, and so, as a
leader, you're kind of achameleon.
You, you study people and howto get the most out of your
(12:38):
people, and some people are verysensitive.
You just barely say somethingand they totally get it.
And then other people you know,maybe a knucklehead, and they
need to say it like three orfour different ways, you know,
and then they get it.
But ultimately it's up to theleader to come up with crystal
(13:01):
clear communication.
Right?
If you're wondering why thingsaren't getting done, just look
at yourself.
It'll be because you probablydidn't, uh, communicate well
enough.
You know, in advertising theysay you've got to say you know a
commercial.
People don't hear yourcommercial until like the
seventh or eighth time that theyhear it yeah so, just when you
(13:22):
know your mom said, maybegrowing up, how many times I
have to tell you to blah, blah,blah.
That's exactly right that youhave to say it over and over and
over and over, and finally itstarts sinking in this, this is
really, this is really serious,this is really.
She really means it.
You know, I'm getting it.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So, as a leader, just when you get tired of saying
something, just when you'reexhausted, thinking these people
are just not hearing me, whenyou get to that point, then
they're starting to hear you.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
so you have to really have patience and dig in and
and reinforce your message overand over and over and over and
over and uh yeah, that's reallygood advice actually, because
with my with coaching it's itseemed like every time that I
would try to say something,nobody would respond, and that
(14:15):
was so frustrating, sofrustrating to me and I would
have to like.
I was like how do I need toscream on the top of my lungs
for somebody to hear me?
But, yeah, that's good advice.
I'm definitely going to takethat because, um, I definitely
struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So my dad used to say uh, loud voice, weak point I, I
honestly agree with that.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I it's just like I feel like you.
You don't need to yell to getyour point across at all as a
matter of fact.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
As a matter of fact, the lower your voice and the
quieter you are, then peoplehave to lean in to hear what
you're saying, and so youcommand more of their attention
by speaking softer.
Like tate roosevelt said, speaksoftly and carry a big stick
that's.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, I really like that, I really like that, I
really like that, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
What approaches do you use to ensure excellence?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
remains in ongoing focus organizationally.
Say that again.
What approaches do?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
you use to ensure excellence remains an ongoing
focus.
Organizationally, I'm a bigbeliever in checklists yep every
morning.
You know when you come to workor like this book.
Can I get this book out?
I just read this book not toolong ago by a surgeon the
(15:54):
checklist manifesto oh and uh,it's he.
Basically, in a nutshell, theycame up with checklists that
doctor surgeons can use to makesure that the surgery goes well,
that people live through thesurgery and that minimizes
mistakes being made.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The other thing is airline pilots they have a
checklist after checklist.
After they have a checklist forstarting the plane up, they
have a checklist for taking off.
They have a checklist for once.
They get up to whatever youknow altitude and then, if an
emergency situation comes up,they've got a checklist for that
.
Get up to whatever you knowaltitude and then, if an
emergency situation comes up,they've got a checklist for that
that they go through.
Yeah, why do we have thesechecklists?
because you want to ensure thatyou're, uh, executing properly
(16:42):
and you don't forget one of thesteps that you need to take
interesting so yeah, um, that'swhy at work sometimes they'll
have opening or closingprocedures and a checklist to
make sure that everybodyremembers, because everybody's
different.
You're going to remembersomething and I'll forget
something right, but if we'reboth looking at the same
(17:03):
checklist, I can see what you'regoing to do.
I can see what I'm going to do.
At the end of the shift, we cansee looks like everything got
done, or oops, we missed onehere, so we need to check this
one off and then we're good yeahso, um, so checklists really uh
(17:23):
, help, help with success,making sure that you don't
overlook something, and not onlyoverlook something, but that
you excel at what you're doing.
Right, and if, unfortunately,people think, well, an airline
pilot, a surgeon, of coursethey're going to have checklists
.
They don't want to leave ascalpel inside of the incision,
(17:43):
or you don't want to forget thatyour landing gear's down or you
know whatever, but you knowwherever you work.
That's important to you.
So when you have a morningroutine, it might be a good idea
to write down a checklist.
If you're leading a team, it'sa good idea to write down a
(18:04):
checklist of what needs to bedone consistently, so that you
don't forget anything.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So is it like just with that, is it like an
everyday goal kind of checklistlike that, or just I guess not
in overtime, like in, becauseI'm looking at it like like a
sports team, like my volleyballteam.
Would I write a checklist forgoals that day or would I do it
(18:35):
as like an overtime?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I think you would do it for the day and over time.
For example, athletes.
Okay, so today, well, you know,today's the most important part
.
It's today.
We are not tomorrow.
Yesterday is already come andgone.
So what are we going to dotoday?
So I want to make sure, as acoach, that you guys eat right.
So here's a checklist for whatyou're supposed to be eating
(18:59):
today, how much water you'resupposed to be drinking?
Okay, here's a checklist foryour fitness routine.
Let's make sure that you gotall the weights in, you've got
all the aerobic, all the stuff.
Now, uh, checklist how muchsleep did you get last night?
You're supposed to get eighthours of sleep.
Did you get eight hours ofsleep?
Or did you get seven hours ofsleep?
(19:20):
Whatever it is, you know?
Yeah, so these kind of thingsyou look at every day and if
people are being truthful, youcan see well, betty's only
getting five hours of sleep.
That might explain why she'snot up to par.
Or nancy is not eating, gettingall the nutrition that she
(19:40):
needs.
That's why her muscles are notdeveloping like all everybody
else yeah so these checklistsgive the coach and the assistant
coach staff and everybodysomething to look at to make
sure that the team is on point.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
So then, when it comes time to play the game, I
mean you, both teams come to thefield to win.
You want to win, the coach onthe other side of the field
wants to win.
So who's?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
going to win Right.
It's the person with the bestprocesses.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Whichever coach has the best process is going to win
nine times out of ten.
So if you're, if you'repracticing at a high level of
efficiency and effectivenessversus the other coach that
doesn't quite have it down, youknow you're going to be the one
(20:38):
that winds up on top, becauseyour people get on the field and
they just execute and theydon't have to think about it
anymore right it's just musclememory, you know yeah yeah, it's
teamwork, it's knowing whereeach, everybody.
You know the people to the rightand to the left of me.
So to do that, you practice,and in practicing, like john
(21:00):
wooden, you know he'd start offwith showing you know, this is
how you tie your shoes.
You know something as basic asthat, but I think at the uh.
Basic as that, but I think atthe uh, and.
And.
So then, when the day comes toa close, you can look over and
say, well, we got this done, wegot this done, we got this done,
we got this done, we got thisdone.
Uh, it looks like we ticked allthe boxes, so tomorrow let's do
(21:23):
it again, you know yeah, yeahand it can get kind of boring.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
But right, right.
What was the name of that book?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I'm gonna write it down yeah, this is the checklist
manifesto by atul gawanda.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It's a-t-u-l-g-a-w-a-n-d-e okay, all
right, I'm gonna keep that formyself.
Yeah, for that for myself heckyeah all right.
Next question how is creativityand innovation fostered in your
(22:02):
organization?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
That comes through when you don't micromanage.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So, liz, here's your task for today.
You're going to do X.
I need you to do whatever.
Do you understand what I'mtelling you?
Yes, you need to do this bythis time, on this piece of
paper, in this certain way,whatever yeah or not, not in a
(22:35):
certain way, but here's whatneeds to be done.
The goal is to make sure that wehave a clear understanding of
how many widgets we have.
Okay, so I'm not going to tellyou how to do it.
I'm not going to tell you howto count.
I'm not going to tell you.
I'm not going to tell you howto do it.
I'm not going to tell you howto count.
I'm not going to tell you.
I'm not going to follow youaround now.
(22:55):
I might follow you around onthe uh for like one or two
minutes to make sure that if youhave any questions, I'm there
to answer.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Okay, I see.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But after that it's up to you.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Because I've hired a smart woman.
That's why you're working forme right so because you're smart
and creative and innovative,you use your creativity and
innovation to figure out how'sthe best way to get these
widgets counted yeah as quicklyand as efficiently as possible.
Your approach might be one way,jimmy, your colleague might do
(23:28):
it a totally different way, butas long as it gets done within
the time frame, I don't careright and you don't have
somebody looking over yourshoulder trying to tell you how
to do stuff and so, and so youget to uh, you get to apply,
create a you know a creativeprocess, like liz is going to
(23:48):
say.
So what's the fastest way tocount these widgets?
You know they're all over thefactory.
Yeah, what's the?
Oh, that's a great cat yeahwhat's the cat's name?
his name is snoop snoop yeah soyou know you're, uh, you're
going to uh, let's say you'regoing to try to figure out the
fastest way to make count thesethings.
(24:10):
Jimmy might come along and saythe same thing, but he's going
to come up with a totallydifferent way than you would.
And what would really be coolis if I got you two together
afterwards and you guys sharenotes and then we find out
between you and jimmy we've comeup with an even faster way to
(24:32):
count these widgets rightcreativity, innovation.
We get better, stronger, fasterblah blah blah, boom boom
boom everybody's making moneyyeah, uh-huh, all right.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
What is one characteristic that you believe
every leader should possess?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
confidence, humility um and selflessness.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
If I'm not confident, then you're going to pick up on
that immediately and you're notgoing to feel comfortable
taking instruction from me,right, and you're going to feel
awkward.
It's going to be weird foreverybody.
Humility, because there'snothing worse than following
(25:41):
somebody who wants to be theleader, following the person
that wants to be the boss.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Those guys, gals, they kind of rub you the wrong
way, you know, because they wantto be in charge, they want to
be large and in charge.
They kind of rub you the wrongway, you know, cause they want
to be in charge, they want to belarge and in charge, and yeah,
and it's kind of it kind of rubsyour fur the wrong way.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, and if I had a leader like that, I don't think
I'd enjoy my job.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Right, a lot of people, a lot of people do.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So it's good to be humble and realize that you're
no better than anybody else.
Everybody puts their pants onone leg at a time.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Same way as everybody else.
Selflessness meaning Okay.
So I've got this job I need todo and Liz is on my team.
I got Liz and Betty and Jimmyand all these people.
Let's say we got 10 people onthe team.
If I'm, if I'm going to, ifwe're going to be successful, if
(26:51):
I'm going to be successful atmy job, you guys need to be
successful.
Be successful at my job.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You guys need to be successful at your job.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And when you're successful.
It's only then that I'msuccessful.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So it's incumbent upon me to make sure that I
remove all the hurdles out ofyour way.
Move all the hurdles out ofyour way, that I, that I help
you do the job you want, thatyou you know to help you do the
kind of job that you want to do,because you're a hired right
(27:26):
and you're a motivated employee.
So I just need to get out ofthe way and if.
Liz says you know what?
There's this, there's thisthing, there's this process.
That's it's really stupid andit's really slowing us all down.
Then it's up to me to get ridof it.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
It's not up to me to come up with all the ideas.
There's one of me and there's10 of you guys, so there should
be 10 times the ideas comingfrom you know than me.
Yeah me, yeah.
So, in the selfless, I need tosee you guys be successful and I
need to.
(28:02):
I need to invest in you andJimmy and Betty and Nancy on my
team to make sure that they areas successful as possible
because really, um, I need toget you promoted, I need to get
Jimmy promoted to get youpromoted.
I need to get Jimmy promotedand you know the, the
non-confident leader will keepyou suppressed because they want
(28:22):
to be the ones that aresuccessful.
They want to be the ones thatget promoted and they don't want
you, they don't really careabout you or you know whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
But the thing is, if you're, if my team gets promoted
and, like, all these people arejust flying out of my
department because they're sogood, my management staff's
gonna look at me and go dangScott, what are you doing over
there?
You know?
I mean, you know how to.
You know how to developchampions yeah so we're gonna
(28:55):
put you in another position overmore people, because we want
more champions.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
So that's where selflessness, putting others
first and helping them be thebest person they can be, the
best employee that they can beyeah, the best person they can
be, the best employee that theycan be.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, I think um something that I would say I
think every leader should haveis discipline in themselves,
because if you can't controlyourself, you can't control your
team or organization orwhatever.
Yada, yada, even in the smallthings, it's like if your alarm
goes off, don't be dead for anhour.
(29:39):
You know which I do?
Do that?
I, yes, I'm red-handed, butright it's something I don't
know like if I want to say thisfrom personal experience if
you're coaching, if you're goingto tell a player, hey, like I'm
(30:03):
not playing you because of thisreason, then don't put her in.
That's still discipline onyourself.
You can't just put her in thenext game.
I could go on and on and onabout this, but I think that's
one that I think honestly,everybody, everybody should have
, because then you won't berespected if you don't
discipline yourself and if yougo against what you said yeah if
(30:27):
you don't hold firm to yourword and you know I told you you
weren't going to play and sodon't uh, quit bugging me about
playing because you're notplaying.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
But if you give in, then they know they've got one
on you.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Then they'll try harder next time?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
All right, what is the Achillesheel of most leaders and what
can be done to overcome this?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
It's thinking that they can do it all.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
When they got to remember that we can't do any of
this without everybody on theteam.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
The Achilles heel, I think, goes back to
communication.
Communication is so huge.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
In a marriage, in a relationship, on a team, in an
organization, in a nonprofit, ifyou don't communicate?
And then you start wonderingwhy everybody is such an idiot,
why is everybody not doing theirjobs?
Why is why is it always up tome?
Why do I always have to be?
You know what is wrong withthem?
Do they not understand howimportant this is to me or to
(31:48):
the organization?
Well, the answer is no, theydon't because you haven't
clearly communicated.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So you can start off communicating very well through
emails and personal, but thenyou get busy and you start to
assume that people know what todo because they'll talk to each
other.
You know, and it's constanttalk about discipline.
(32:18):
It's a constant effort tocommunicate clearly and set
clear expectations right there'snot a day that goes by that you
can't get away with not doingthat yeah and so you, you fall
into thinking everybody can do.
(32:38):
It, knows it, I've I've alreadysaid it a hundred times, you
know.
And so then you go off doingyour own little thing, and then
you turn around and look andnobody's following you and those
that are following, followingor doing all the wrong things.
How'd this happen?
You know?
Well, I hate to tell you, butjust look in the mirror now.
(33:03):
If those, if there's people onyour team I keep saying that but
if you, if you do have peoplethat are not executing, that are
not, uh, you have been crystalclear and and you haven't, uh,
and they're not performing, youyou know those people really
need to leave.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's the hard part of the job, probably the hardest
part of the job, but you haveto do it because it doesn't help
the other team.
I mean, it doesn't help therest of your team.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
As a matter of fact, you show disrespect to your team
when you keep the ones thataren't performing on the team.
So then other people think well, I can be on the team and I'll
perform either, because she'snot going to get rid of them.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You know, yeah, it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
So now we're all going to suck and we're not
going to win any games, becausebut if we see that Liz is really
serious about this and she'sshe's only going to keep the top
performers on the team Not thatshe doesn't like the people
that don't perform- that hasnothing to do with it.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's just that, for whatever reason, you know, we've
worked with you, blah, blah,blah.
It's not working out.
You can't be on the teamanymore.
I'll write you letters ofrecommendations and I'll try to
help you.
You know whatever, but mymandate is to win games, and so
I need people on my team thatknow how to win.
(34:26):
So yeah my two cents there.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I like that, all right.
What do you look for in futureleaders?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
People that don't want to be a leader.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Elaborate.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Like I said earlier, if you find somebody that's just
chomping at the bit to be theboss, that ain't the guy or gal
I want to be around, becausethey'll step all over everybody
trying to promote themselves andthey forget.
It's not about you, it's aboutus, it's about the team.
But if you got somebody who's,like I said, humble and selfless
(35:11):
and confident, Selfless andconfident.
Now I got somebody I can workwith.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Easy as that.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Easy as that.
Okay, what makes for a poorleader?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
It's all the stuff that we haven't said.
It's a poor leader is notconfident.
They don't communicate, they'reall only concerned with
themselves.
It's just a.
It's just a crap show.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's just a.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
it's just a crap show , yeah yeah, it's uh, and
everybody's miserable andeverybody's trying to get out of
that department.
They're not getting anythingout of it.
They're not being rewarded.
Uh, they're not beingencouraged and recognized.
Um, the leader is just allabout themselves and putting on
a fake smile when the big bosswalks through and everybody can
(36:19):
see it, you know yeah, as soonas the big boss leaves, they go
back to their little snivelingways and everybody can see right
through it.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
So that's my answer there I'd say it's also leaders
who abuse their power yeah,that's, that's.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
That goes back to the lack of confidence.
They have to overcompensate.
So they're not confident, sothey think that they have to
really thump their chest and umput people in their place, you
know, and they gotta, they gottashow who's boss right, yeah,
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah um?
Speaker 3 (37:03):
what is the biggest challenge facing leaders today?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
that's a toughie, I'm gonna say.
It's always been the same thingsince the beginning of time.
Um, you know, someone said thisis a great place to work.
If only if it weren't for allthe people that work here.
(37:30):
You know uh it's.
The biggest challenge is is thepeople, and whether it's 1920 or
1820 or 2020, whether you'reyou got a horse and buggy or a
model t or a 63 bellaire or a2024 tesla, regardless of the
(37:56):
technology, regardless of thetime, the people pretty much are
all the same and people are thechallenge and so you have to be
a good uh, a good study ofpeople and uh know what, know
what uh how to encourage, how toinfluence people yeah for good
(38:18):
and to get help.
If you hire right, you don'thave to hire.
Like I said, you don't have tohire motivated people.
You just try to get out oftheir way, stay out of their way
and let them do their thingyeah but there are things that
will discourage them, or, and soyou have to come along and
encourage them, and yeah propthem up every once in a while
and give them kudos, and buthenry ford had to deal with that
(38:41):
, you know right um, any leader,churchill, lincoln, it's all.
It's all pretty much the samething.
It's the people, and peoplehaven't changed that much.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yeah, I've never really thought about that
actually.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, If you met a girl from 1776 at your age,
she's going to be concernedabout the same things that you
or your friends might be.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Am I going to get get married a date, or am I to this
or am I to that?
I'm not pretty enough, and youknow it's.
It's always been that, that way, same with guys, you know yeah,
yeah it's just the clothes arechanged, technology around us
has changed, but our desires andour what we think about have
(39:36):
pretty much stayed the sameright right so that's the
biggest challenge for leadersjust to know how to deal with uh
, the people know not how todeal with, and that's a bad way
of saying it.
Know how to work with theirpeople to so that their people
can do the best job possible hmm, yeah, I never really thought
of that.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I would try to think of something technical, but I
like that answer.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Pretty simple really.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, that really is what was your most significant
leadership mistake.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I made fun of somebody one time, just horsing
around and they weren't there.
But their colleagues told themwhat I did and he didn't like
that very much.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Oh, no, yikes.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Felt bad about that.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
That was stupid.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I mean, we all do stupid things.
That's how I look at it.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I'm the king of doing stupid.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Are you guys?
Did you guys know?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
What am I trying to say?
Like were you guys cool afterthat a little bit.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I mean it took a while, yeah, cool.
Now, okay, what advice wouldyou give to a young
up-and-coming leader who wantedto eventually become an
executive leader?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
don't worry about becoming an executive leader.
I don't even know whatexecutive leader means.
Um, either you are, you aren'ta leader.
Um, uh, you might want you, uh.
So focus, focus on yourinfluence on people around you
and know that people arewatching you and, and, and, and
(41:51):
you hope that you influence themin a good way.
Um, they're gonna.
You know, like you said, if youuh, if you're doing things
right, let's say, if you show upfor work and you're you're
you're not like super dressed up, but you know you dress nice
and take care of yourself andthe other if you'll notice, over
(42:15):
time, others are going to startdoing that too.
So you're kind of leading inthat direction right or if
you're the person at work thatdoesn't bad mouth the boss and
doesn't use foul language andyou've always got a great
attitude.
People are going to gravitatetowards that right and uh, they
(42:37):
want to be like that.
They don't know, they do, butyou know, if you model that type
of behavior, everybody likesthat.
Nobody likes a arguing.
Uh never has anything good tosay about anybody right, yeah,
the debbie downers yeah, debbiedowners, yeah, yeah and so, uh,
(43:01):
you know, as you go through life, and you've got your school,
you've got your papers, that youturn in your homework and all
this stuff um, as a leader, you,you especially when you're
working in groups, uh, if you'rethe one who knows how to kind
of get the group together, getthe group to talk, get the group
(43:22):
to and then delegate specifictasks to the group, help
facilitate that.
That's.
That's great practice forcorporate work or medical field.
Yeah, because you need the, youneed, you need people around
you to be successful.
This group needs to be.
(43:42):
If we want to get a on thispaper, this group thing, we need
to put a effort, you know yeahif we're in a physical therapy
clinic and everybody's doinggreat except for one that's just
really screwing up, um, that's,that's not too great.
And so, uh, you try to emulate,you try to show, you try to
(44:05):
model the type of behavior thatyou expect.
You show up on time, you getyour paper paperwork done on
time, you get your patient loadtaken care of, and the physical
therapy room is always clean andeverything's sanitized, you
know, and the receptionreceptionist is super cool.
(44:29):
Uh, it's all, that's allexpectation.
And so you as the doctor, youas the lead there, or or you're,
you might be one of the internsor somebody, but because you do
such a great job and you alwaysshow up on time with a great
attitude and do a good job, thenwhen your internship's over
(44:52):
with, then they're going to sayhey, you know what?
What can I want you to stickaround?
We kind of like that yeah soyou just kind of lead your way
into that kind of thing okay,what is?
Speaker 3 (45:08):
what is the one behavior or trait that you have
seen derail more leaders careers?
Probably inappropriate behavioryeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
That's a good one politicians, management yep,
there's a lot of people that, uh, that kind of thing can happen
and bad decisions.
You don't think anybody's goingto know or no one's going to
(45:39):
catch on, but someone alwaysdoes eventually yeah so it's
always a good stay above boardand and uh, especially the
higher up you go.
When they say you know, theysay the higher up you go, more
of your ass you show.
So everybody can see you knoweverybody's gunning for you yeah
(46:00):
, so don't give them an excuseto to uh or have a reason for
bringing it down yeah,especially when you can control
that right, yeah, yeah,especially when you can.
But that's Right.
Yeah, yeah, especially when youcan.
But that's the sad thing, youcan't control.
But just, you know a lot ofpeople don't.
(46:21):
Yeah, yeah that isunfortunately, get your hand
slapped, for you know stupidstuff.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Yeah, yeah, all right , I have two more questions,
okay okay all right.
What is your greatest regret,as it applies to leadership?
Speaker 2 (46:44):
caring too much about what other people think oh,
that's a good one.
That's a good one yeah, itreally doesn't matter what they
think you've got a job to do and, uh, you just need to get it
done, not be a jerk about it.
You know, think you've got ajob to do and, uh, you just need
to get it done, not be a jerkabout it, you know, but this is
what we got to do yeah sometimesyou, sometimes I worry too much
(47:05):
about whether people are goingto think about this, you know,
are they going to think I'm mean, or they don't agree with me,
or what?
it doesn't matter, it justdoesn't right, yeah at home, at
work with your friends, itdoesn't matter anywhere yeah
that's too often we.
What are they going to think ifI implement this change into
(47:27):
their volleyball team?
What are they going to thinkabout if I change this thing up,
you know?
Then they're all going to say,oh, you know, whatever.
Yeah, um, don't worry about it,just execute and don't worry
about what other people think.
They're probably not thinkingabout you anyway right?
Speaker 3 (47:48):
yeah, that's.
That is one thing that I hadtrouble with in coaching and
because I care too much, Ididn't have confidence in what I
was doing.
But as time goes on, as I'mlearning more about coaching and
stuff, someone's going to talkabout you.
You can't control that.
(48:10):
There's going to be at leastone person that doesn't like you
.
It doesn't matter.
You can't do nothing about itat all, you just have to be for
you and your team.
And yeah, you want.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
There's going to be one complainer and sometimes
that person needs to just moveon down the road exactly yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
So yeah, I like that, all right.
Last question if you had to doit all over again, what would
you differently and why?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I would have been more purposeful in my employment
, starting at a young age.
But once again, I cared toomuch about what other people
think.
Um, I didn't really have a plan, a purpose at a young age and
(49:08):
so I just kind of went from.
It's like I was riding a trainand when the train would stop
I'd get off and jump on the nexttrain and wherever that went,
that's where I went right.
Then it would stop, I'd get off.
There's another train, I'll geton it.
We'll see where this one goes.
I I would.
(49:29):
I would be more purposeful.
Yeah, I wanted to be a moviedirector when I was younger uh
always wanted to make movies.
I made movies in high school, Iwas a film major at ku my first
year, um.
And then I went to oklahomastate and got too interested in
partying and having a good timewith friends and uh, kind of,
(49:53):
from then on it just kind ofeverything just kind of and kind
of.
From then on it just kind ofeverything just kind of not spun
out of control.
But, um, I lost my focuspurpose and uh, now that I'm on
this side of life looking backon it, I'm kind of wishing I
(50:14):
wish I'd stuck with that yeah orstuck with something one thing
and just do really well at it,you know what did you um major
in?
Speaker 3 (50:27):
journalism oh cool, I like that, that's fun yep yeah,
well, that's all the questionsI got.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Well, good, well, I hope that helped.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Oh yeah, for sure I love, I love talking about
leadership.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
So for Liz Draven Hope, this isScott Townsend.
Thanks for watching andlistening to the Scott Townsend
show.
Have a great day.
Everything's going to be allright.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
And we'll talk to you later.
The scott townsend show is aDietz-O-Man production.
For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show YouTube
channel, listen on ApplePodcasts or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows you.
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