January 29, 2025 • 37 mins
This episode emphasizes the transformational power of intentional outreach and empathy in supporting those facing difficult times. Through personal anecdotes and practical advice, we explore ways to foster meaningful connections while dismantling the stigma against asking for help.
• The impact of consistent check-ins on emotional well-being
• Empathy as a driving force in providing support
• Social isolation during illness and the need for connection
• The significance of effective communication and support tools like CaringBridge
• Navigating the challenges of giving advice versus being present
• The stigma associated with asking for help and vulnerability
• Practical methods for showing support in everyday life
• The importance of active listening in difficult conversations
• Introducing the concept of the 8-minute call for reaching out
Simon Sinek's video about the 8-minute call to help a friend https://youtu.be/1IC531FU7wY?si=zuakSF1mXdhPngCy
A Friend Calls a Friend in Need Every Day At A Certain Time For Months https://www.youtube.com/shorts/q7VdoKPoS2c
Share your thoughts and reach out! How do you show support to those around you? Email scott@scotttownsend.info
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by
Dietzelman Productions.
Hey, this is Scott Townsend.
Welcome back to the ScottTownsend Show.
And today I have with me repeatguest executive producer of the
Scott Townsend Show, benTownsend, ben, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good, how are you doing Scott?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great.
Thanks for joining today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
No short notice, but first off, what did you have for
breakfast this morning?
What I normally have forbreakfast One egg, One egg
scrambled and some.
It's instant oatmeal, but it'smore of an organic type with
extra protein in it and withsome extra oat bran thrown in
(00:51):
there, some walnuts and someblueberries.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And some psyllium husk, no maple syrup and a
little pancake or anything.
Nope, I had one egg thismorning too.
I usually have four, but I onlyhad one left, so I had to
suffer with one egg.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And so I put a bunch of other stuff in there and it's
not super sweet to start with,but I add a little bit of monk
fruit sweetener to it Monk fruit.
Monk fruit yeah, it's a naturalsweetener but it's zero calorie
and I don't think it works real.
It's a natural sweetener butit's zero calorie.
Um, and I don't think it worksreal.
Well, it's like a primarysweetener, but I think it works
great as a sweetener.
Just to take it up a little bitfor something that already has,
you know, sugar in it right soI like that.
(01:39):
Yeah, I'm still.
We're still in our littleapartment here.
Um, our home is, uh, they'reout there weathering the the
build-in right now.
They've got all the decking onthe roof, they've got all the
tar paper down, they've got thesides on everything.
After today, maybe by noontomorrow, it will be completely
weathered in.
We're making good progress onour house.
This has been a great littleapartment.
(02:00):
Man, we're ready to move intoour own home.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, not bad bad.
That's exciting, it's good news.
Yep, can't wait to come downand stay in my bedroom down
there.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Um, however, you've got that set up we can go on the
back deck and we can havecoffee or coffee mugs yeah and
watch the deer walk by.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Watch the deer walk by.
Yeah.
Well, the reason for thisepisode I saw this Simon Sinek
video on LinkedIn yesterday.
It kind of hit me between theeyes just a little bit and
wanted to get your take on it.
He was talking about somebodywho had gone through a hard time
(02:46):
and, uh, it's just a very shortvideo and now I can't find it.
But there's another video thatgoes along the same lines with
him and I'll get to that in justa second.
But, um, he was talking aboutsomebody going through a hard
time and so he told them well,first off he was talking about,
(03:07):
you know, a lot of people saywell, if there's anything I can
do, let me know.
You know, blah, blah, blah.
And uh, it's kind of a easy,cheesy, lazy way out of
committing to helping a friendor family member by putting the
burden on them to come up withsomething that you can do for me
.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So he said but but points for being there well, I
mean, if you, if you do thatminimally, you know, I guess
you're on the playing field yeahuh, and so you may not be an
impact player, but you're on thefield, you're on the map at
least.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
yeah, yeah, so good point.
So he said what he told hisfriend was I'm going to call you
every day at three o'clock fora month or two months or three
months, depending on theseverity of the case, and you
(04:04):
know where they are in theirheadspace and all that stuff,
and uh, so he would call themevery day at three just checking
it.
And then, and then he said,then he said and don't feel like
you have to answer the call.
You know I'm calling, I'mtelling you right now I'm going
to call, I'm going to be there.
(04:24):
If you don't feel like pickingit up, if you don't feel like
talking, that's totally cool, Iget it.
But if you do want to pick it up, you know I'm going to be there
at three o'clock and if there'ssomething you want to talk
about or say, uh, there you go.
So I'll be there for you for ashort little phone call.
(04:45):
Um and I thought that wasreally.
I've never heard anybody say ordo something like that how
cheap, how easy that is, how andhow.
It's not even inexpensive, it'sno cost, except for a little
bit of time it's intentional andit's intentional, purposeful
(05:06):
and uh.
And so he said this frienddidn't answer for the first week
.
It's totally okay, you know hejust he or she, whatever they
were going through just didn'tfeel like talking.
And then pretty soon theystarted picking up the phone
every so often and then prettysoon it's like every day and
that's totally cool.
At least if you put yourself inthe place of the person who's
(05:30):
receiving the phone call, justgetting the call is someone
who's consistent and someone whofollows through and does what
they say they're going to do,that in itself means would mean
a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, I think it all kind ofgets back to when you're going,
when you have a friend orsomebody whoever.
You know that, that you knowthat's going through some sort
of hard thing, you know, I think.
I think empathy goes a long waytoward putting you where you
(06:13):
probably need to be, to be ofthe most service.
You know.
It's like.
You know it's like you knowwith with, with Janet, you know,
and her cancer, you know, justto know that people are thinking
about you and reach out.
I think what he did there is afine thing Say, I'm going to
call you every day.
For some people it may be alittle much, I don't know, it
depends on the person, but ifyou give them permission not to
answer the phone, I think that'sa pretty big deal and you
(06:37):
persist anyway and you're notgoing to take offense and you
can't have a whiff of offense inany of your communications.
Have any.
You can't have a whiff ofoffense in any of your
communications.
You know if you're going to sayyou know, and you really mean
it and and presumably you know,you would mean that you know, so
I, I think that, I think that'sgood, I I think you know when,
when.
Um, you know, we kind of liketeamed up you know when, when,
(07:00):
when janet was going through herdifficulty with cancer, when
Janet was going through herdifficulty with cancer, so I was
able to write on CaringBridge.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What's.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
CaringBridge.
It's just a site for people.
I don't know if it's justcancer, but there's a lot of
people who have cancer and itjust provides them an easy way
to communicate what's going onwith their cancer.
And if you're going through it,I think it's really hard to try
to write, you know.
So if you have somebody thatcan write for you, I think
(07:33):
that's a big deal.
And having somebody that canwrite for you or kind of
intercede for you, like thatkind of be a personal
administrative assistant, Ithink that's a big deal because
it kind of takes the pressureoff of them to communicate, um,
and let everybody know what'sgoing on.
Because because everybody wantsto know what's going on yeah,
and and you know some of thesethings like this is somebody
(07:55):
with a, with a serious illness.
Um, you know what I learnedabout it?
Um, is that it can be a superisolating experience.
Why is?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
that well, because you know super isolating
experience.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Why is that?
Well, because you know you'regoing through all kinds of
treatments and there's, there'sa lot of those that that make
you immunocompromised, you know.
So you can't successfully fightoff infection and you're trying
like crazy to get throughchemotherapy.
And you know chemotherapy istrying to kill you.
That's what chemotherapy isdoing.
It's trying to kill you and youknow chemotherapy is trying to
(08:26):
kill you.
That's what chemotherapy isdoing.
It's trying to kill you and thehealthy cells hopefully
regenerate quicker than thecancer cells that are being
killed, you know, in the process.
But it's not.
It's an equal opportunitykiller, you know.
And it'll kill the host too,you know.
So it brings everything down,your whole system down, so you
can't get out, and this goes onfor months and months and it
(08:47):
wrecks your white blood cells,red blood cells.
That can go on for a year, yearand a half.
So you know, when I sayisolating, that's what I mean.
You can't go to church, youknow.
You have to really be choosyabout whether or not you, you
know, go along to the grocerystore or go out to a restaurant.
I mean pretty isolating.
So and your social interaction?
(09:07):
You know just flat lines atthat point, and so you know, for
us to be able to to write and Iwrote for janet, but you know
we had other people in ourfamily, like um tasha, who, uh,
who volunteered to communicatefor us.
I'm comfortable writing andcommunicating, and so you know I
(09:28):
took that on and it's less forJanet to explain to somebody
else about what to write, whatto communicate, but, man, just
you know, getting that out there, so people knew what was going
on, and then it was someaningful, like we had so many
people that were following along, like I don't know what the
number was, but it was over ahundred people, I think,
following along, and you knowwhen you would write, when I
(09:50):
would write something about youknow the latest thing that was
happening.
I tried to put week updates outthere weekly.
You know, just getting, justgetting things back, you know
like a thumbs up or or you knowsomebody say, yeah, we're, um,
you know, thanks for thanks forthe note, we're praying for you.
I mean just those little thingstelling you, you know, from
(10:11):
being in the trenches, that'smeaningful you know, and as you
know somebody who, um, you knowpeople who are, um, you know,
committed to their faith, youknow we're, we're Christians and
so to to to, you know know thatsomebody is out there and
they're praying for you, meanteverything.
And I'm not kidding, it meanteverything Cause you know you go
(10:34):
to bed at night and you'rethinking, wow, so I can go to
sleep, I can go to bed here, Ican lay down and rest, and, and
you know, like the likelihoodthat there's somebody out there
who's actually thinking about usand lifting us up, it's a big
deal.
So I think I think those, youknow, I think having people that
are willing to respond likethat or reach out, just, you
know a text and just be, youknow, purposeful about it Don't
(10:59):
try to write a book, you know,when you send a text, just
something quick and easy toconsume, to consume and not
putting any burden on therecipient, you know is huge.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Sometimes those of us on this side think that just
sending a little emoji or alittle thumbs up or whatever
isn't enough.
You know, was that, yeah, itkind of poo-poo, the it kind of
just dismiss the gesture, thethe easy click on the thumb or
the heart or whatever.
So what you're saying is itreally does mean something if
(11:33):
when you get well to us it.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Did you remember that movie?
Um, you've got mail way backthere.
I think that was tom hanks andyeah, meg ryan, or meg ryan yeah
, yeah, but you know, just inthere, when you, when, when,
when she would hear this bingyou know, did a male come in?
you know how excited she got,like it's kind of like that.
But you know, for us, um, thosekind of things were really
(11:57):
meaningful.
Then some people would writemore extensively.
You know, write a paragraphback or something, um, and you
know, get give give paragraphback or something Um, and you
know, get give give some sort ofencouragement, and they're
really good at it too.
I mean, the last thing you wantto do, you know, for somebody
in that kind of situation isgive advice, because you know,
you know uh, talk about that fora minute.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Why is that so bad?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Because that sounds like the natural thing you want
to do is give them some advice,especially if I've been that it
is valuable, but but I think you, you have to earn their
permission to provide advice,otherwise they can just be
unwelcome for whatever reason.
(12:40):
You know that they feelterrible, you know, and you know
I, you know.
To have somebody say like Iknow what you're going through,
you know what you need to do is,you know, put some vitamin c
and some hot water and dump somewhiskey in there and then put
some lemon in there and drink itand you'll be fine, you know,
or whatever.
You know, it's not realisticand it it?
It really kind of, in a way,people aren't trying to be, but
(13:03):
it's kind of arrogant.
It's not really understandingthe situation or thinking that
they got a quick cure forsomething.
It's kind of like why didn'tyou figure this out?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I mean, that's kind of insulting, you know, and
people aren't intending to beinsulting, that's not what they
intend and they're trying to behelpful, right, but in that
price it gets real sticky whenyou have and I think that's why
(13:33):
people back away from this kindof stuff, becauseught with
landmines and you don't want toupset or tip over the apple card
or whatever you know.
Yeah, I don't know how tocommunicate with you.
(14:00):
They don't know what to say.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well you're horribly embarrassed because you're going
through some sort of nastydivorce or something.
I mean, I haven't had thatexperience, you know, but some
people do.
And there's other things aswell.
You know where people, you knowthey it's embarrassing to them,
you know their life isn'tFacebook put together like
everybody else's, you know, andthey and they that's
(14:24):
embarrassing to them and so theydon't really want to, you know,
talk about it or communicateabout it.
So you know again, it's empathy, it.
So you know again it's it'sempathy.
It's really kind of like, youknow, if you're, if you're kind
of oriented towards or you canput that yourself there for a
little while, you know, empathyis all about doing your best to
understand where the otherperson is coming from and just
(14:46):
being receptive to what you cando to help.
But I think I think you kind ofgot to earn that permission for
somebody to say, yeah, you know, you know you've been through
something similar to what I'vebeen through.
What did you do in this?
Now you have an invitation andif you have something that you
can say, you know, then then atthat point, you know, you share
it very carefully and again,thoughtfully and with you know,
(15:09):
your your empathy mindset on.
But not every, not all twodivorces are the same.
Not all heart attacks are thesame.
Not all heart attacks are thesame, you know, not not all
issues with children are thesame, you know.
So, even though you may havehad, you know, a similar thing
yeah, I have, I also have, youknow, experience with, whatever
it is, you know, a difficultchild or or a a a divorce.
(15:31):
You know and you know, eventhough, even though you may kind
of have already earned asimilar merit badge, it doesn't
mean that therefore, you havethe right, you know, just to
tell people like how to fixeverything, because that's not
understanding them, that's youtrying to provide advice and you
know, I don't know.
you know it's kind of difficultto articulate, but Well, it's
(15:52):
just like a guy.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Guy, that's what guys do you know?
Women to women, I don't know,but I'm just speaking from a guy
standpoint.
That's immediately what wedefault to is.
Oh well, here let me tell youwhat you need to do.
Man, I went through the samething.
Well, number one, it's not thesame thing, it's.
It's a type in a shadow, butit's not the same thing.
And so you might give someadvice, that's.
And so you just want to startkicking in that let's fix this,
(16:16):
let's fix this right now.
You know, come on, bro, let'sgo.
You know, and that's wherelistening comes in, and that's
where people I would say mostpeople are not good at listening
.
And so when someone says I gotthis problem, you know whatever?
(16:37):
Let's say they finally pick upthe phone and say hey, what's
going on?
You know, hey, like I said, Iwas just calling to see what's
going on, and so then they starttalking, and then your wheels
start going and you know you'restarting to put things together.
So here's what we can do to youknow, here's what you should do
.
Blah, blah, blah.
The best thing you do is justkeep your mouth shut.
Yeah, just let them talk andjust listen.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, and not but, but active listening is good too
.
I mean, you don't want to givethem, like a a, a blank surface
to speak into.
They get no verbal cues oranything back.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Oh no, no, that's right yeah, all right, right,
right, you want to.
You want them to know that youare listening and that you are
receiving what they're, you'repicking up what they're laying
down.
But I just know from experienceI wind up trying to help fix
their problem and I stoppedlistening and I start
prescribing, and that's the lastthing they want to hear.
(17:31):
Really, they just want to getit off their chest.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, prescribing is an interesting word, cause
that's what I was just.
I was thinking about.
You know, avoid beingprescriptive, oh man.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
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(18:07):
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Speaker 2 (18:16):
But you know everybody needs to eat and so I
don't think there's anythingwrong with you know, depending
on the situation.
Like you know, sometimes ifsomebody's incapacitated in some
way they broke their leg orwhatever everybody's got to eat.
It's difficult to fix dinnerwhen you've got a broken leg or
you know you have some otherthing where you're going through
some sort of intense thing.
It's like when people lose aloved one, you take them food.
(18:38):
It's a way of showing care andconcern in actual service, I
think, offering to bring a mealor join somebody out for coffee.
There's lots of ladies that didthat with Janet, you know.
Join somebody out for coffee.
There's lots of ladies that didthat with Janet, you know if,
if it worked out for her, youknow meet her for coffee.
Or or you know, bring hersomething.
(18:59):
You know just bring stuff by.
When we're going to come andbring some stuff by, we're not
going to stay long.
We're just going to drop it off.
That's also a good call, youknow, because you know you never
know what's going on in thehouse you know where you have.
You know people who have beentorn up by surgery and all kinds
of stuff.
So you know quick hits I thinkare really good, you know, if
you show up and they're like no,no, no, can you, can you sit
(19:20):
down for a second?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, again there's your invitation.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
There's your invitation and your permission,
and so you know if you're tryingto show empathy.
I think that's an indicator ofsuccess.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, you, I think that's an indicator of success.
Yeah, you kind of hit the nailon the head.
Yeah, if you get the invitation.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so to be a good listener.
What does it mean to be a goodlistener?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, I mean, like I said, kind of like active
listening.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You know, like I guess I wasn't listening earlier
.
So, yeah, you're too focused onwhat you want to say.
You know just verbal cues, asyou're, or and nonverbal cues.
You're too focused on what youwant to say.
You know just verbal cues, asyou're, or nonverbal cues, you
know as you're listening.
And if you're something youdon't quite understand, you know
checking for understanding, assomebody you know is explaining
something to you to make you,because you want to make sure
that you're understanding themright and you want to make sure
(20:11):
that they know that they'rebeing understood, you know.
So those kind of you know.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
You know active listening skills, which doesn't
include advice, you know andalso maybe kind of feeding back
what you just heard, so theyknow that you did receive it
correctly yeah, repeating itback, yep yeah.
Why is reaching out for help sostigmatized?
Why do people not like to reachout for help?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
because nobody wants to feel needy.
It's.
It's a maybe part of a prideissue.
You know, and I'm not immune tothat.
You know I just yesterday I gotout of um my sling for my
rotator cuff surgery and youdon't want to be a bother and an
inconvenience and you know it'slike even here in the house.
(21:01):
You know, try putting yoursocks on sometime.
With one hand it can be done.
But you know I like to wearlike the smart wool wool socks.
And you know, after you washthem one time, you know they
kind of like they.
They don't shrink but but butactually shrink but they're.
They become kind of stiff andyou know, like harder to put
(21:23):
them on you know it was liketighter.
Yeah, man, try that with onehand sometimes and so and so a
lot of times.
You know, janet was helping meput my socks on, you know, and
that's every day, man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Every day.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And so you feel like you're a bother and you don't
want to be a bother and eventhough you know she would get
irritated with me because Iwould try to put my socks on
without asking for her help,because she wanted to help, you
know, still, you know you kindof feel like you know that's a
lot of it.
You know it's hard to ask forhelp, I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And then if you don't ask for help, you hit on
something else too.
You deny the people around youthe service that they want to
provide.
And could they actually getreally upset with you because
you didn't ask them to help andthey're ready to help and you
didn't employ them.
(22:13):
And you know, we all know thisis just a temporary little
setback, so just let me help you.
You know, yeah, you don't, youdon't need to be superman all
the time, and and then you tryto be superman and then people
get irritated and anddisappointed and whatnot, and
that's just.
I guess I guess that's got tobe okay, and that's just.
(22:34):
I guess I guess that's gotta beokay too.
But that's natural for them toget that way, because they want
to try to help, and we just needto let people help us.
We need to be able to ask forhelp and we need to be able to
allow people around us to helpthem, help us, because they get
something out of it too.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right, no, I think that's right.
And and you and, and you knowthey want to be helpful and
they're they're kind ofanswering, you know, in their
own life, you know a friend or aspouse or whatever kind of like
the call they have to service,you know, and if they're trying
to engage with you and you'regoing through something, they
feel a call to service.
So it's hard.
(23:12):
I mean, I, I, you know, I, Ibelieve me, you know I couldn't
do, I couldn't put on, I, I, youknow I, I believe me, you know
I, I couldn't do it, I couldn'tput on a shirt by myself.
You know, when I had my that,that my shoulder surgery, I
couldn't put my socks on, Icouldn't button my jeans, you
know.
So you know I, I'm, I walkaround, you know, for six weeks
wearing sweatpants almost everysingle day, cause it's something
(23:33):
that I could pull up, you know,and, uh, but you know, there,
when we go to, like it would goout for whatever reason it's not
that I never wore my jeans, youknow, but you know I had to
have her butt in my jeans andzip my pants up and put my belt
on.
It's something else I couldn'tdo.
Um, so you know, just it'sreally basic stuff, man, you
(23:53):
know, and you just kind of haveto accept help, and so we've
been helping each other withstuff for a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So yeah not a not a big deal, but kind of have to
have a good sense of humor aboutit too.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Mm, hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah, find ways to make it fun.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, simon Sinek was talking about the eight minute
call.
This was another video.
I guess, uh, some researchshows that someone going through
a depression, grief, whatevertrouble times that uh, a an
eight minute phone call, whetherit's daily, weekly, every other
(24:33):
week or whatever, uh, eightminutes seems to be the uh, the
uh ideal time.
It's not too long, it's not tooshort, gives you enough time to
get some info, give some info,uh, and then hang up because
you're busy, they're busy, butyou've been able to accomplish
(24:56):
your mission to help them andand and they've been able to let
you help them by, you know,speaking, talking and you
listening.
So eight minutes, I thoughtthat was an interesting number
yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think that it is interesting and you know, for
the love of all, that's holy, ifsomebody has ever told you that
you're a talker, you know, youjust got to understand what
you're.
You're.
You tend to do, um, and ifthat's you, you know, I think
you gotta set a timer, you know,and and and just say we're only
(25:34):
gonna, I'm only gonna, I'mgoing to limit myself to five
minutes here, because I don'twant to take up your whole day.
And sometimes I start talkingand I, I, you know, we'll be 30
minutes later and I'm stillgoing and I haven't taken a
breath and you haven't said aword.
That's me, you know.
So I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna holdthis to five minutes and then
I'm going.
Unless you want me to, you know, hang out, but I just, you know
, this is really all about you,blah, blah, blah.
(25:55):
So set a timer.
If you're one of those people,man, set a timer, because some
people can absolutely wear youout.
Oh, yeah, going on and on and on, and you know you're about to
pass out.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, you lay the phone down, go to the bathroom,
get a, so anything you know.
I thought this would be good todo a video like this, a podcast
like this, to help people whowe all go through stuff job,
(26:26):
medical, family, friends,whatever um and not a lot of
people know how to deal with it.
Uh, we don't do a lot ofteaching on it, we don't.
You know there's not a lot oftalk about it because it's not a
lot.
It's not a fun conversation,but it can be a good
conversation.
It's not necessarily fun,although I think this
(26:48):
conversation has been kind offun, but I think that it's a
important thing Because thereare people out there hurting and
if we can help just one otherlistener get it and know how to
approach someone going through atough time, I guess mission
(27:11):
accomplished.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, and I think you know again, as a Christian, you
know sometimes people wonderwhy they have to go through
tough things.
You know, if God loves me, whydo I have to go through tough
things?
I think it's a supercomplicated answer, complex
answer.
But I think one of those thingsis it kind of uniquely
qualifies you to talk tosomebody else who is going
through something very similar,and so it allows us, it kind of
(27:37):
empowers us for service.
You can't jump in with givingadvice and all kinds of stuff
like that.
Again, you have to wait for theinvitation.
But if you've gone through itbefore, if somebody's been
through a divorce, even thoughthey're all different, it kind
of empowers you for service tobe of maximum assistance to
somebody who's going through thesame thing.
(27:58):
Or you know it's all kinds oftrouble that people have out
there.
And if you've gone through that, you know some sort of health
thing, whether it's a heartattack or cancer or whatever it
is, you know it does kind ofempower you in a different way
to be of service.
And that's also great too,because when, when you know if
you, if you make yourselfavailable, if you've already
(28:22):
earned that merit badge, youknow and you make yourself
available and then somebodyinvites you in, you know then
you, then you can really reallyhelp them out.
And there are some people likethat.
You know when we're goingthrough all of our stuff.
You remember Mike Perryman.
Yeah, he's one of those guysyou know and he's he's been
through you know his own cancerstruggle and he's amazing and
(28:48):
you know the way he handled that.
You know his attitude and hisencouragement was amazing.
So you know there are thosepeople out there and we all have
different experiences andsometimes we get the call We've
had that similar experience andwe can help people out, but you
(29:08):
still have to run all the sametraps as everybody else and just
kind of be there and empathizeand listen and wait for that
invitation.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So, yeah, when they're in the mud and this
person, whatever, when thisperson, whatever it is, is in
the, is in the muck, is in theyuck, you know the mud and
you're reaching down trying tohelp them out, they might not
want to move for a little bit.
It might be better.
What you're saying is might bebetter for that, for you to get
(29:37):
down in the mud with them, andthat's not a lot of fun, for you
to get down in the mud withthem, and that's not a lot of
fun.
The other thing, too, is, ifyou've been through this before,
then your pants are probablyprobably stained with the same
mud.
You know, because you wentbefore them.
So when they're looking at you,they see you've actually been
through this crap.
You know your, your, your pantsare stained with this mud.
(30:00):
It's kind of a, it's like ascar.
You know.
It tells a story.
So just to get down in the andso when you get in the mud with
them, then they're they're kindof okay with it, I guess, and
they know what you're doing andyou don't have to say anything
and eventually, at some point,at some point, you you know, you
look at them, say are you readyto get up and climb this ladder
(30:23):
now, and at some point they'reprobably going to say, okay,
yeah, I think I'm ready now.
But what I tend to do isimmediately go and grab their
hand, say, come on, let's go youknow, yeah, you basically make
all the mistakes.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, that's true, but you know what I mean
too.
You know you might feel likethis is the way I feel, like I
feel like I need to saysomething that's going to be
like necessarily profound, but Iwant to say something like
intelligent, to help them, toencourage them in some way, and
you don't have to do that, youdon't have to put that kind of
pressure on yourself.
Really, it's way more effectivejust to just to be empathetic,
(31:05):
you know, just to practice.
You know your, your empathyskills and and I'm not saying
I'm great at it, but I've seensome people who are great at it
and some people who have beengreat at it, you know, have been
involved in our lives and, uh,some.
But sometimes you do get, youknow some pretty profound stuff.
I mentioned, like you know, uh,I remember one time he said and
(31:26):
I'm gonna get, I'm not gonnaquote exactly right here, but he
said something to the effect ofyou never know how strong you
can be until there's no otherway.
You never know how strong youcan be until there's no other
way, and I think that's 100 true.
Uh, and, and you know thingslike that, you can be until
there's no other way, and Ithink that's 100% true and you
know things like that.
You know people who have kindof been in the same trenches and
(31:47):
things you know they can offerthat kind of thing.
You know kind of real,thoughtful kind of input.
It's not really advice, it'sjust kind of input into the
process.
It's encouraging.
You know giving your courage,encouraging others.
Get me imparting my courage toyou.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I encourage you yeah, that's good, that's good.
Well, I anything else alongthese lines no man, I think I'm
tapped out.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You've hit my limit of uh insight I can provide here
, I think.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yeah, I mean you and Jan went through quite a bit
there and there was a lot ofpeople supporting you guys and
helping you guys.
And oh, one thing that youmentioned that, just when you
and me but we haven't mentionedit here on the podcast is, well,
you did mention about eatingand like a good towns and we all
want to mention about eating,but you mentioned something
about people in like a goodtowns and we all want to mention
about eating, but you mentionedsomething about people doing
(32:44):
DoorDash, gift certificates andstuff.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I had never thought of, you know, and so talk about
that just a little bit before wehead out here.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, so well, in the past two weeks we've had two
opportunities to.
You know Hunter is inHoustonston.
You know he was really sickwith the flu.
We're really hoping that emily,his wife, would not get the flu
, but it's frustrating for us tobe here.
You know, uh, three out, threeand a half hours away and we
(33:13):
can't be around somebody withthe flu.
You know, now it's not not smartfor us.
Um, you know, probably in theend okay, but you know we just
really don't impress it, but butyou feel useless and you feel
like so.
But man, you know, probably inthe end okay, but you know we
just really don't want toimpress it, but you feel useless
and you feel like, but, man,you know there's all different
kind of ways you can help and ifthe only thing you can do is
call or send text or let themknow you're praying, that's
awesome.
There's a what's it placecalled, yeah, of comfort.
(33:43):
There's a, there's a it's anonline thing spoonful of comfort
and and somebody you know atdistance or even in your, in
your, in your main town, but itworks great for somebody at
distance.
You know you can, you can uhbuy them.
You know they have uh, soup andkind of like care packages, and
it's really good stuff.
It's not cheap, it's prettygood and you can send it to them
(34:04):
.
And then you know, nolan, youknow, had something you know,
the next, the very next week,you know, like five or six days
later he, he, he got the flu ina different location.
Again, we're at distance.
So on that one, we, we didDoorDash and we sent him a
DoorDash.
You know, sorry, we can't bethere to bring something to you.
Wish we could.
So even though even thoughyou're not there, it doesn't
(34:24):
mean there's nothing that youcan do.
You know you can send, you cando that.
You can have flowers sent.
You don't have to spend a dimethough, um, and if you want to
rock somebody's world, you can.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You can do a real old world thing that nobody does
anymore and actually write ahandwritten note, you know, and
it's put it in the mailbox, um,with a little flag.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, that's really cool and a little, what a little
flag on the mailbox you putthat up and somebody will come
and take that, that mail anddeliver it to you.
Yeah, but you know, emails aregreat, text messages are great.
Uh, you know, a letter or acard in the mail is an
absolutely it's a lost art.
And you want to rock somebody'sworld?
Man, do that because it shows alot of forethought.
(35:08):
Um, even if you don't have tosay anything, you know real
great or anything you know, justlike, don't have to be ernest
hemingway, you just right, threesentences, two sentences.
You know whatever you want.
You know um, that's almost freeyeah you know, text message is
free, unless, for most people,an email is free.
(35:29):
There's a phone call, sothere's.
There's all kinds of ways to doit.
So if if you're thinking that,well, I just you know they're
there, or whatever kind ofexcuse yourself, um, there's
tons of ways to do it, yeah, soyou just got a purpose to do so
again purposeful.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Get a little piece of paper, write down a couple
sentences.
Get a little.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Get a little uh package, put a little pester in
there and mail it out and you'regood to go exactly so I'll be
looking for my your letter toshow my mailbox.
It shouldn't see it's Thursday.
She get here next Monday man.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
All right, well, that's a good, that's a good
convo.
You're listening to this, uh,share it with your friends,
family it's, this is somethingthat a lot of people need to
hear.
It's, uh, it's important and,uh, it it's important because it
helps others and just helps usall of us get through the day a
(36:26):
little bit better.
All right, well, go enjoywrapping your house up.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Sounds good.
Thanks, Scott.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
All right.
Well for Ben Townsend.
This is Scott Townsend.
Thanks for listening to theScott Townsend Show.
Have a great day.
Everything's going to be allright and we'll talk to you
later.
For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show YouTube
channel, listen on ApplePodcasts or wherever you listen
(36:54):
to your favorite shows.
The Scott Townsend Show Talkson show.
Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by
Dietzelman Productions.
Hey, this is Scott Townsend.
Welcome back to the ScottTownsend Show.
And today I have with me repeatguest executive producer of the
Scott Townsend Show, benTownsend, ben, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good, how are you doing Scott?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great.
Thanks for joining today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
No short notice, but first off, what did you have for
breakfast this morning?
What I normally have forbreakfast One egg, One egg
scrambled and some.
It's instant oatmeal, but it'smore of an organic type with
extra protein in it and withsome extra oat bran thrown in
(00:51):
there, some walnuts and someblueberries.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And some psyllium husk, no maple syrup and a
little pancake or anything.
Nope, I had one egg thismorning too.
I usually have four, but I onlyhad one left, so I had to
suffer with one egg.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And so I put a bunch of other stuff in there and it's
not super sweet to start with,but I add a little bit of monk
fruit sweetener to it Monk fruit.
Monk fruit yeah, it's a naturalsweetener but it's zero calorie
and I don't think it works real.
It's a natural sweetener butit's zero calorie.
Um, and I don't think it worksreal.
Well, it's like a primarysweetener, but I think it works
great as a sweetener.
Just to take it up a little bitfor something that already has,
you know, sugar in it right soI like that.
(01:39):
Yeah, I'm still.
We're still in our littleapartment here.
Um, our home is, uh, they'reout there weathering the the
build-in right now.
They've got all the decking onthe roof, they've got all the
tar paper down, they've got thesides on everything.
After today, maybe by noontomorrow, it will be completely
weathered in.
We're making good progress onour house.
This has been a great littleapartment.
(02:00):
Man, we're ready to move intoour own home.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, not bad bad.
That's exciting, it's good news.
Yep, can't wait to come downand stay in my bedroom down
there.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Um, however, you've got that set up we can go on the
back deck and we can havecoffee or coffee mugs yeah and
watch the deer walk by.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Watch the deer walk by.
Yeah.
Well, the reason for thisepisode I saw this Simon Sinek
video on LinkedIn yesterday.
It kind of hit me between theeyes just a little bit and
wanted to get your take on it.
He was talking about somebodywho had gone through a hard time
(02:46):
and, uh, it's just a very shortvideo and now I can't find it.
But there's another video thatgoes along the same lines with
him and I'll get to that in justa second.
But, um, he was talking aboutsomebody going through a hard
time and so he told them well,first off he was talking about,
(03:07):
you know, a lot of people saywell, if there's anything I can
do, let me know.
You know, blah, blah, blah.
And uh, it's kind of a easy,cheesy, lazy way out of
committing to helping a friendor family member by putting the
burden on them to come up withsomething that you can do for me
.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So he said but but points for being there well, I
mean, if you, if you do thatminimally, you know, I guess
you're on the playing field yeahuh, and so you may not be an
impact player, but you're on thefield, you're on the map at
least.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
yeah, yeah, so good point.
So he said what he told hisfriend was I'm going to call you
every day at three o'clock fora month or two months or three
months, depending on theseverity of the case, and you
(04:04):
know where they are in theirheadspace and all that stuff,
and uh, so he would call themevery day at three just checking
it.
And then, and then he said,then he said and don't feel like
you have to answer the call.
You know I'm calling, I'mtelling you right now I'm going
to call, I'm going to be there.
(04:24):
If you don't feel like pickingit up, if you don't feel like
talking, that's totally cool, Iget it.
But if you do want to pick it up, you know I'm going to be there
at three o'clock and if there'ssomething you want to talk
about or say, uh, there you go.
So I'll be there for you for ashort little phone call.
(04:45):
Um and I thought that wasreally.
I've never heard anybody say ordo something like that how
cheap, how easy that is, how andhow.
It's not even inexpensive, it'sno cost, except for a little
bit of time it's intentional andit's intentional, purposeful
(05:06):
and uh.
And so he said this frienddidn't answer for the first week
.
It's totally okay, you know hejust he or she, whatever they
were going through just didn'tfeel like talking.
And then pretty soon theystarted picking up the phone
every so often and then prettysoon it's like every day and
that's totally cool.
At least if you put yourself inthe place of the person who's
(05:30):
receiving the phone call, justgetting the call is someone
who's consistent and someone whofollows through and does what
they say they're going to do,that in itself means would mean
a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, I think it all kind ofgets back to when you're going,
when you have a friend orsomebody whoever.
You know that, that you knowthat's going through some sort
of hard thing, you know, I think.
I think empathy goes a long waytoward putting you where you
(06:13):
probably need to be, to be ofthe most service.
You know.
It's like.
You know it's like you knowwith with, with Janet, you know,
and her cancer, you know, justto know that people are thinking
about you and reach out.
I think what he did there is afine thing Say, I'm going to
call you every day.
For some people it may be alittle much, I don't know, it
depends on the person, but ifyou give them permission not to
answer the phone, I think that'sa pretty big deal and you
(06:37):
persist anyway and you're notgoing to take offense and you
can't have a whiff of offense inany of your communications.
Have any.
You can't have a whiff ofoffense in any of your
communications.
You know if you're going to sayyou know, and you really mean
it and and presumably you know,you would mean that you know, so
I, I think that, I think that'sgood, I I think you know when,
when.
Um, you know, we kind of liketeamed up you know when, when,
(07:00):
when janet was going through herdifficulty with cancer, when
Janet was going through herdifficulty with cancer, so I was
able to write on CaringBridge.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What's.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
CaringBridge.
It's just a site for people.
I don't know if it's justcancer, but there's a lot of
people who have cancer and itjust provides them an easy way
to communicate what's going onwith their cancer.
And if you're going through it,I think it's really hard to try
to write, you know.
So if you have somebody thatcan write for you, I think
(07:33):
that's a big deal.
And having somebody that canwrite for you or kind of
intercede for you, like thatkind of be a personal
administrative assistant, Ithink that's a big deal because
it kind of takes the pressureoff of them to communicate, um,
and let everybody know what'sgoing on.
Because because everybody wantsto know what's going on yeah,
and and you know some of thesethings like this is somebody
(07:55):
with a, with a serious illness.
Um, you know what I learnedabout it?
Um, is that it can be a superisolating experience.
Why is?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
that well, because you know super isolating
experience.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Why is that?
Well, because you know you'regoing through all kinds of
treatments and there's, there'sa lot of those that that make
you immunocompromised, you know.
So you can't successfully fightoff infection and you're trying
like crazy to get throughchemotherapy.
And you know chemotherapy istrying to kill you.
That's what chemotherapy isdoing.
It's trying to kill you and youknow chemotherapy is trying to
(08:26):
kill you.
That's what chemotherapy isdoing.
It's trying to kill you and thehealthy cells hopefully
regenerate quicker than thecancer cells that are being
killed, you know, in the process.
But it's not.
It's an equal opportunitykiller, you know.
And it'll kill the host too,you know.
So it brings everything down,your whole system down, so you
can't get out, and this goes onfor months and months and it
(08:47):
wrecks your white blood cells,red blood cells.
That can go on for a year, yearand a half.
So you know, when I sayisolating, that's what I mean.
You can't go to church, youknow.
You have to really be choosyabout whether or not you, you
know, go along to the grocerystore or go out to a restaurant.
I mean pretty isolating.
So and your social interaction?
(09:07):
You know just flat lines atthat point, and so you know, for
us to be able to to write and Iwrote for janet, but you know
we had other people in ourfamily, like um tasha, who, uh,
who volunteered to communicatefor us.
I'm comfortable writing andcommunicating, and so you know I
(09:28):
took that on and it's less forJanet to explain to somebody
else about what to write, whatto communicate, but, man, just
you know, getting that out there, so people knew what was going
on, and then it was someaningful, like we had so many
people that were following along, like I don't know what the
number was, but it was over ahundred people, I think,
following along, and you knowwhen you would write, when I
(09:50):
would write something about youknow the latest thing that was
happening.
I tried to put week updates outthere weekly.
You know, just getting, justgetting things back, you know
like a thumbs up or or you knowsomebody say, yeah, we're, um,
you know, thanks for thanks forthe note, we're praying for you.
I mean just those little thingstelling you, you know, from
(10:11):
being in the trenches, that'smeaningful you know, and as you
know somebody who, um, you knowpeople who are, um, you know,
committed to their faith, youknow we're, we're Christians and
so to to to, you know know thatsomebody is out there and
they're praying for you, meanteverything.
And I'm not kidding, it meanteverything Cause you know you go
(10:34):
to bed at night and you'rethinking, wow, so I can go to
sleep, I can go to bed here, Ican lay down and rest, and, and
you know, like the likelihoodthat there's somebody out there
who's actually thinking about usand lifting us up, it's a big
deal.
So I think I think those, youknow, I think having people that
are willing to respond likethat or reach out, just, you
know a text and just be, youknow, purposeful about it Don't
(10:59):
try to write a book, you know,when you send a text, just
something quick and easy toconsume, to consume and not
putting any burden on therecipient, you know is huge.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Sometimes those of us on this side think that just
sending a little emoji or alittle thumbs up or whatever
isn't enough.
You know, was that, yeah, itkind of poo-poo, the it kind of
just dismiss the gesture, thethe easy click on the thumb or
the heart or whatever.
So what you're saying is itreally does mean something if
(11:33):
when you get well to us it.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Did you remember that movie?
Um, you've got mail way backthere.
I think that was tom hanks andyeah, meg ryan, or meg ryan yeah
, yeah, but you know, just inthere, when you, when, when,
when she would hear this bingyou know, did a male come in?
you know how excited she got,like it's kind of like that.
But you know, for us, um, thosekind of things were really
(11:57):
meaningful.
Then some people would writemore extensively.
You know, write a paragraphback or something, um, and you
know, get give give paragraphback or something Um, and you
know, get give give some sort ofencouragement, and they're
really good at it too.
I mean, the last thing you wantto do, you know, for somebody
in that kind of situation isgive advice, because you know,
you know uh, talk about that fora minute.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Why is that so bad?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Because that sounds like the natural thing you want
to do is give them some advice,especially if I've been that it
is valuable, but but I think you, you have to earn their
permission to provide advice,otherwise they can just be
unwelcome for whatever reason.
(12:40):
You know that they feelterrible, you know, and you know
I, you know.
To have somebody say like Iknow what you're going through,
you know what you need to do is,you know, put some vitamin c
and some hot water and dump somewhiskey in there and then put
some lemon in there and drink itand you'll be fine, you know,
or whatever.
You know, it's not realisticand it it?
It really kind of, in a way,people aren't trying to be, but
(13:03):
it's kind of arrogant.
It's not really understandingthe situation or thinking that
they got a quick cure forsomething.
It's kind of like why didn'tyou figure this out?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
I mean, that's kind of insulting, you know, and
people aren't intending to beinsulting, that's not what they
intend and they're trying to behelpful, right, but in that
price it gets real sticky whenyou have and I think that's why
(13:33):
people back away from this kindof stuff, becauseught with
landmines and you don't want toupset or tip over the apple card
or whatever you know.
Yeah, I don't know how tocommunicate with you.
(14:00):
They don't know what to say.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well you're horribly embarrassed because you're going
through some sort of nastydivorce or something.
I mean, I haven't had thatexperience, you know, but some
people do.
And there's other things aswell.
You know where people, you knowthey it's embarrassing to them,
you know their life isn'tFacebook put together like
everybody else's, you know, andthey and they that's
(14:24):
embarrassing to them and so theydon't really want to, you know,
talk about it or communicateabout it.
So you know again, it's empathy, it.
So you know again it's it'sempathy.
It's really kind of like, youknow, if you're, if you're kind
of oriented towards or you canput that yourself there for a
little while, you know, empathyis all about doing your best to
understand where the otherperson is coming from and just
(14:46):
being receptive to what you cando to help.
But I think I think you kind ofgot to earn that permission for
somebody to say, yeah, you know, you know you've been through
something similar to what I'vebeen through.
What did you do in this?
Now you have an invitation andif you have something that you
can say, you know, then then atthat point, you know, you share
it very carefully and again,thoughtfully and with you know,
(15:09):
your your empathy mindset on.
But not every, not all twodivorces are the same.
Not all heart attacks are thesame.
Not all heart attacks are thesame, you know, not not all
issues with children are thesame, you know.
So, even though you may havehad, you know, a similar thing
yeah, I have, I also have, youknow, experience with, whatever
it is, you know, a difficultchild or or a a a divorce.
(15:31):
You know and you know, eventhough, even though you may kind
of have already earned asimilar merit badge, it doesn't
mean that therefore, you havethe right, you know, just to
tell people like how to fixeverything, because that's not
understanding them, that's youtrying to provide advice and you
know, I don't know.
you know it's kind of difficultto articulate, but Well, it's
(15:52):
just like a guy.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Guy, that's what guys do you know?
Women to women, I don't know,but I'm just speaking from a guy
standpoint.
That's immediately what wedefault to is.
Oh well, here let me tell youwhat you need to do.
Man, I went through the samething.
Well, number one, it's not thesame thing, it's.
It's a type in a shadow, butit's not the same thing.
And so you might give someadvice, that's.
And so you just want to startkicking in that let's fix this,
(16:16):
let's fix this right now.
You know, come on, bro, let'sgo.
You know, and that's wherelistening comes in, and that's
where people I would say mostpeople are not good at listening
.
And so when someone says I gotthis problem, you know whatever?
(16:37):
Let's say they finally pick upthe phone and say hey, what's
going on?
You know, hey, like I said, Iwas just calling to see what's
going on, and so then they starttalking, and then your wheels
start going and you know you'restarting to put things together.
So here's what we can do to youknow, here's what you should do
.
Blah, blah, blah.
The best thing you do is justkeep your mouth shut.
Yeah, just let them talk andjust listen.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, and not but, but active listening is good too
.
I mean, you don't want to givethem, like a a, a blank surface
to speak into.
They get no verbal cues oranything back.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Oh no, no, that's right yeah, all right, right,
right, you want to.
You want them to know that youare listening and that you are
receiving what they're, you'repicking up what they're laying
down.
But I just know from experienceI wind up trying to help fix
their problem and I stoppedlistening and I start
prescribing, and that's the lastthing they want to hear.
(17:31):
Really, they just want to getit off their chest.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, prescribing is an interesting word, cause
that's what I was just.
I was thinking about.
You know, avoid beingprescriptive, oh man.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Before we continue, the best way to support the
Scott Townsend show is bytelling friends, family members
and becoming a patron at patr.
Patreoncom forward slash theScott Townsend show.
So yeah, we have awesome perks,personalized videos,
personalized episodes, all kindsof cool stuff at different tier
(18:07):
levels.
Patreon allows us to do theshow full-time, part-time,
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So thank you so much for yoursupport.
Full-time, part-time, anytime.
So thank you so much for yoursupport.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
But you know everybody needs to eat and so I
don't think there's anythingwrong with you know, depending
on the situation.
Like you know, sometimes ifsomebody's incapacitated in some
way they broke their leg orwhatever everybody's got to eat.
It's difficult to fix dinnerwhen you've got a broken leg or
you know you have some otherthing where you're going through
some sort of intense thing.
It's like when people lose aloved one, you take them food.
(18:38):
It's a way of showing care andconcern in actual service, I
think, offering to bring a mealor join somebody out for coffee.
There's lots of ladies that didthat with Janet, you know.
Join somebody out for coffee.
There's lots of ladies that didthat with Janet, you know if,
if it worked out for her, youknow meet her for coffee.
Or or you know, bring hersomething.
(18:59):
You know just bring stuff by.
When we're going to come andbring some stuff by, we're not
going to stay long.
We're just going to drop it off.
That's also a good call, youknow, because you know you never
know what's going on in thehouse you know where you have.
You know people who have beentorn up by surgery and all kinds
of stuff.
So you know quick hits I thinkare really good, you know, if
you show up and they're like no,no, no, can you, can you sit
(19:20):
down for a second?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, again there's your invitation.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
There's your invitation and your permission,
and so you know if you're tryingto show empathy.
I think that's an indicator ofsuccess.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, you, I think that's an indicator of success.
Yeah, you kind of hit the nailon the head.
Yeah, if you get the invitation.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so to be a good listener.
What does it mean to be a goodlistener?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, I mean, like I said, kind of like active
listening.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You know, like I guess I wasn't listening earlier
.
So, yeah, you're too focused onwhat you want to say.
You know just verbal cues, asyou're, or and nonverbal cues.
You're too focused on what youwant to say.
You know just verbal cues, asyou're, or nonverbal cues, you
know as you're listening.
And if you're something youdon't quite understand, you know
checking for understanding, assomebody you know is explaining
something to you to make you,because you want to make sure
that you're understanding themright and you want to make sure
(20:11):
that they know that they'rebeing understood, you know.
So those kind of you know.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
You know active listening skills, which doesn't
include advice, you know andalso maybe kind of feeding back
what you just heard, so theyknow that you did receive it
correctly yeah, repeating itback, yep yeah.
Why is reaching out for help sostigmatized?
Why do people not like to reachout for help?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
because nobody wants to feel needy.
It's.
It's a maybe part of a prideissue.
You know, and I'm not immune tothat.
You know I just yesterday I gotout of um my sling for my
rotator cuff surgery and youdon't want to be a bother and an
inconvenience and you know it'slike even here in the house.
(21:01):
You know, try putting yoursocks on sometime.
With one hand it can be done.
But you know I like to wearlike the smart wool wool socks.
And you know, after you washthem one time, you know they
kind of like they.
They don't shrink but but butactually shrink but they're.
They become kind of stiff andyou know, like harder to put
(21:23):
them on you know it was liketighter.
Yeah, man, try that with onehand sometimes and so and so a
lot of times.
You know, janet was helping meput my socks on, you know, and
that's every day, man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Every day.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And so you feel like you're a bother and you don't
want to be a bother and eventhough you know she would get
irritated with me because Iwould try to put my socks on
without asking for her help,because she wanted to help, you
know, still, you know you kindof feel like you know that's a
lot of it.
You know it's hard to ask forhelp, I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And then if you don't ask for help, you hit on
something else too.
You deny the people around youthe service that they want to
provide.
And could they actually getreally upset with you because
you didn't ask them to help andthey're ready to help and you
didn't employ them.
(22:13):
And you know, we all know thisis just a temporary little
setback, so just let me help you.
You know, yeah, you don't, youdon't need to be superman all
the time, and and then you tryto be superman and then people
get irritated and anddisappointed and whatnot, and
that's just.
I guess I guess that's got tobe okay, and that's just.
(22:34):
I guess I guess that's gotta beokay too.
But that's natural for them toget that way, because they want
to try to help, and we just needto let people help us.
We need to be able to ask forhelp and we need to be able to
allow people around us to helpthem, help us, because they get
something out of it too.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Right, no, I think that's right.
And and you and, and you knowthey want to be helpful and
they're they're kind ofanswering, you know, in their
own life, you know a friend or aspouse or whatever kind of like
the call they have to service,you know, and if they're trying
to engage with you and you'regoing through something, they
feel a call to service.
So it's hard.
(23:12):
I mean, I, I, you know, I, Ibelieve me, you know I couldn't
do, I couldn't put on, I, I, youknow I, I believe me, you know
I, I couldn't do it, I couldn'tput on a shirt by myself.
You know, when I had my that,that my shoulder surgery, I
couldn't put my socks on, Icouldn't button my jeans, you
know.
So you know I, I'm, I walkaround, you know, for six weeks
wearing sweatpants almost everysingle day, cause it's something
(23:33):
that I could pull up, you know,and, uh, but you know, there,
when we go to, like it would goout for whatever reason it's not
that I never wore my jeans, youknow, but you know I had to
have her butt in my jeans andzip my pants up and put my belt
on.
It's something else I couldn'tdo.
Um, so you know, just it'sreally basic stuff, man, you
(23:53):
know, and you just kind of haveto accept help, and so we've
been helping each other withstuff for a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So yeah not a not a big deal, but kind of have to
have a good sense of humor aboutit too.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Mm, hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah, find ways to make it fun.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, simon Sinek was talking about the eight minute
call.
This was another video.
I guess, uh, some researchshows that someone going through
a depression, grief, whatevertrouble times that uh, a an
eight minute phone call, whetherit's daily, weekly, every other
(24:33):
week or whatever, uh, eightminutes seems to be the uh, the
uh ideal time.
It's not too long, it's not tooshort, gives you enough time to
get some info, give some info,uh, and then hang up because
you're busy, they're busy, butyou've been able to accomplish
(24:56):
your mission to help them andand and they've been able to let
you help them by, you know,speaking, talking and you
listening.
So eight minutes, I thoughtthat was an interesting number
yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think that it is interesting and you know, for
the love of all, that's holy, ifsomebody has ever told you that
you're a talker, you know, youjust got to understand what
you're.
You're.
You tend to do, um, and ifthat's you, you know, I think
you gotta set a timer, you know,and and and just say we're only
(25:34):
gonna, I'm only gonna, I'mgoing to limit myself to five
minutes here, because I don'twant to take up your whole day.
And sometimes I start talkingand I, I, you know, we'll be 30
minutes later and I'm stillgoing and I haven't taken a
breath and you haven't said aword.
That's me, you know.
So I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna holdthis to five minutes and then
I'm going.
Unless you want me to, you know, hang out, but I just, you know
, this is really all about you,blah, blah, blah.
(25:55):
So set a timer.
If you're one of those people,man, set a timer, because some
people can absolutely wear youout.
Oh, yeah, going on and on and on, and you know you're about to
pass out.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, you lay the phone down, go to the bathroom,
get a, so anything you know.
I thought this would be good todo a video like this, a podcast
like this, to help people whowe all go through stuff job,
(26:26):
medical, family, friends,whatever um and not a lot of
people know how to deal with it.
Uh, we don't do a lot ofteaching on it, we don't.
You know there's not a lot oftalk about it because it's not a
lot.
It's not a fun conversation,but it can be a good
conversation.
It's not necessarily fun,although I think this
(26:48):
conversation has been kind offun, but I think that it's a
important thing Because thereare people out there hurting and
if we can help just one otherlistener get it and know how to
approach someone going through atough time, I guess mission
(27:11):
accomplished.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, and I think you know again, as a Christian, you
know sometimes people wonderwhy they have to go through
tough things.
You know, if God loves me, whydo I have to go through tough
things?
I think it's a supercomplicated answer, complex
answer.
But I think one of those thingsis it kind of uniquely
qualifies you to talk tosomebody else who is going
through something very similar,and so it allows us, it kind of
(27:37):
empowers us for service.
You can't jump in with givingadvice and all kinds of stuff
like that.
Again, you have to wait for theinvitation.
But if you've gone through itbefore, if somebody's been
through a divorce, even thoughthey're all different, it kind
of empowers you for service tobe of maximum assistance to
somebody who's going through thesame thing.
(27:58):
Or you know it's all kinds oftrouble that people have out
there.
And if you've gone through that, you know some sort of health
thing, whether it's a heartattack or cancer or whatever it
is, you know it does kind ofempower you in a different way
to be of service.
And that's also great too,because when, when you know if
you, if you make yourselfavailable, if you've already
(28:22):
earned that merit badge, youknow and you make yourself
available and then somebodyinvites you in, you know then
you, then you can really reallyhelp them out.
And there are some people likethat.
You know when we're goingthrough all of our stuff.
You remember Mike Perryman.
Yeah, he's one of those guysyou know and he's he's been
through you know his own cancerstruggle and he's amazing and
(28:48):
you know the way he handled that.
You know his attitude and hisencouragement was amazing.
So you know there are thosepeople out there and we all have
different experiences andsometimes we get the call We've
had that similar experience andwe can help people out, but you
(29:08):
still have to run all the sametraps as everybody else and just
kind of be there and empathizeand listen and wait for that
invitation.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So, yeah, when they're in the mud and this
person, whatever, when thisperson, whatever it is, is in
the, is in the muck, is in theyuck, you know the mud and
you're reaching down trying tohelp them out, they might not
want to move for a little bit.
It might be better.
What you're saying is might bebetter for that, for you to get
(29:37):
down in the mud with them, andthat's not a lot of fun, for you
to get down in the mud withthem, and that's not a lot of
fun.
The other thing, too, is, ifyou've been through this before,
then your pants are probablyprobably stained with the same
mud.
You know, because you wentbefore them.
So when they're looking at you,they see you've actually been
through this crap.
You know your, your, your pantsare stained with this mud.
(30:00):
It's kind of a, it's like ascar.
You know.
It tells a story.
So just to get down in the andso when you get in the mud with
them, then they're they're kindof okay with it, I guess, and
they know what you're doing andyou don't have to say anything
and eventually, at some point,at some point, you you know, you
look at them, say are you readyto get up and climb this ladder
(30:23):
now, and at some point they'reprobably going to say, okay,
yeah, I think I'm ready now.
But what I tend to do isimmediately go and grab their
hand, say, come on, let's go youknow, yeah, you basically make
all the mistakes.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, that's true, but you know what I mean
too.
You know you might feel likethis is the way I feel, like I
feel like I need to saysomething that's going to be
like necessarily profound, but Iwant to say something like
intelligent, to help them, toencourage them in some way, and
you don't have to do that, youdon't have to put that kind of
pressure on yourself.
Really, it's way more effectivejust to just to be empathetic,
(31:05):
you know, just to practice.
You know your, your empathyskills and and I'm not saying
I'm great at it, but I've seensome people who are great at it
and some people who have beengreat at it, you know, have been
involved in our lives and, uh,some.
But sometimes you do get, youknow some pretty profound stuff.
I mentioned, like you know, uh,I remember one time he said and
(31:26):
I'm gonna get, I'm not gonnaquote exactly right here, but he
said something to the effect ofyou never know how strong you
can be until there's no otherway.
You never know how strong youcan be until there's no other
way, and I think that's 100 true.
Uh, and, and you know thingslike that, you can be until
there's no other way, and Ithink that's 100% true and you
know things like that.
You know people who have kindof been in the same trenches and
(31:47):
things you know they can offerthat kind of thing.
You know kind of real,thoughtful kind of input.
It's not really advice, it'sjust kind of input into the
process.
It's encouraging.
You know giving your courage,encouraging others.
Get me imparting my courage toyou.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I encourage you yeah, that's good, that's good.
Well, I anything else alongthese lines no man, I think I'm
tapped out.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You've hit my limit of uh insight I can provide here
, I think.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yeah, I mean you and Jan went through quite a bit
there and there was a lot ofpeople supporting you guys and
helping you guys.
And oh, one thing that youmentioned that, just when you
and me but we haven't mentionedit here on the podcast is, well,
you did mention about eatingand like a good towns and we all
want to mention about eating,but you mentioned something
about people in like a goodtowns and we all want to mention
about eating, but you mentionedsomething about people doing
(32:44):
DoorDash, gift certificates andstuff.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I had never thought of, you know, and so talk about
that just a little bit before wehead out here.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, so well, in the past two weeks we've had two
opportunities to.
You know Hunter is inHoustonston.
You know he was really sickwith the flu.
We're really hoping that emily,his wife, would not get the flu
, but it's frustrating for us tobe here.
You know, uh, three out, threeand a half hours away and we
(33:13):
can't be around somebody withthe flu.
You know, now it's not not smartfor us.
Um, you know, probably in theend okay, but you know we just
really don't impress it, but butyou feel useless and you feel
like so.
But man, you know, probably inthe end okay, but you know we
just really don't want toimpress it, but you feel useless
and you feel like, but, man,you know there's all different
kind of ways you can help and ifthe only thing you can do is
call or send text or let themknow you're praying, that's
awesome.
There's a what's it placecalled, yeah, of comfort.
(33:43):
There's a, there's a it's anonline thing spoonful of comfort
and and somebody you know atdistance or even in your, in
your, in your main town, but itworks great for somebody at
distance.
You know you can, you can uhbuy them.
You know they have uh, soup andkind of like care packages, and
it's really good stuff.
It's not cheap, it's prettygood and you can send it to them
(34:04):
.
And then you know, nolan, youknow, had something you know,
the next, the very next week,you know, like five or six days
later he, he, he got the flu ina different location.
Again, we're at distance.
So on that one, we, we didDoorDash and we sent him a
DoorDash.
You know, sorry, we can't bethere to bring something to you.
Wish we could.
So even though even thoughyou're not there, it doesn't
(34:24):
mean there's nothing that youcan do.
You know you can send, you cando that.
You can have flowers sent.
You don't have to spend a dimethough, um, and if you want to
rock somebody's world, you can.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You can do a real old world thing that nobody does
anymore and actually write ahandwritten note, you know, and
it's put it in the mailbox, um,with a little flag.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, that's really cool and a little, what a little
flag on the mailbox you putthat up and somebody will come
and take that, that mail anddeliver it to you.
Yeah, but you know, emails aregreat, text messages are great.
Uh, you know, a letter or acard in the mail is an
absolutely it's a lost art.
And you want to rock somebody'sworld?
Man, do that because it shows alot of forethought.
(35:08):
Um, even if you don't have tosay anything, you know real
great or anything you know, justlike, don't have to be ernest
hemingway, you just right, threesentences, two sentences.
You know whatever you want.
You know um, that's almost freeyeah you know, text message is
free, unless, for most people,an email is free.
(35:29):
There's a phone call, sothere's.
There's all kinds of ways to doit.
So if if you're thinking that,well, I just you know they're
there, or whatever kind ofexcuse yourself, um, there's
tons of ways to do it, yeah, soyou just got a purpose to do so
again purposeful.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Get a little piece of paper, write down a couple
sentences.
Get a little.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Get a little uh package, put a little pester in
there and mail it out and you'regood to go exactly so I'll be
looking for my your letter toshow my mailbox.
It shouldn't see it's Thursday.
She get here next Monday man.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
All right, well, that's a good, that's a good
convo.
You're listening to this, uh,share it with your friends,
family it's, this is somethingthat a lot of people need to
hear.
It's, uh, it's important and,uh, it it's important because it
helps others and just helps usall of us get through the day a
(36:26):
little bit better.
All right, well, go enjoywrapping your house up.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Sounds good.
Thanks, Scott.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
All right.
Well for Ben Townsend.
This is Scott Townsend.
Thanks for listening to theScott Townsend Show.
Have a great day.
Everything's going to be allright and we'll talk to you
later.
For more episodes, visit theScott Townsend Show YouTube
channel, listen on ApplePodcasts or wherever you listen
(36:54):
to your favorite shows.
The Scott Townsend Show Talkson show.
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