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June 23, 2023 • 29 mins
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(00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in thefollowing programmer those of the speaker and don't
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(00:23):
FG Insurance dot com for more info. Hey, it's Uncle Mike and joining
me this week in the studio isKelly Ann Kostel, who is the executive
director of Fearless of the Hudson Valleyand we're going to explain what that is
in just a minute. Kelly An, welcome back to the show. Thanks
so much for having me back.I think it's been over a year since
you were here, but unfortunately,what we've been through, it's been a
lot of time for a lot ofpeople. I do a lot of work

(00:45):
in a nonprofit world, and forthe nonprofit world, it was tougher in
a lot of ways than it wasfor everyone else. Because you couldn't do
fundraising, you couldn't have events tolet people know, and you became isolated
at times, and anyone going throughwhat you deal with as an organization,
isolation was the worst thing. Butthank god we're on the other side.
Things are picking up again and we'rehere to talk about Fearless of the Hudson

(01:07):
Valley some events coming up. Butbefore we get started, Kelly Ann,
we always try to give a littlebit about the voice behind a microphone.
So if you give a little bitabout your background and how you got to
be the executive director of the organization, that I'll help everybody listening and then
we'll move on from there. Yeah. Sure, I mean, I think
it's funny how fast time goes.As I'm sitting here entering my thirteenth year
as the executive director of Fearless HudsonValley, which was formerly Safe Homes of

(01:30):
Orange County, and prior to that, was in Duchess County for five years
as their Universal Response to Domestic ViolenceCoordinator and then started my career up in
Warren County, New York, whichis by Lake George, for the District
Attorney's Office there as their senior Victimspecialist. And it's, I think,
but an evolution and when I firststarted in this work, didn't know necessarily

(01:52):
that I would be where I amtoday. But as I progressed in my
field and the work that I'm doing, the personal and professional values that I
have have become more aligned than everbefore. And so I think that that's
kind of how you find your homeis when you can find that balance along
the way. Interesting and in alot of ways, a lot of the

(02:13):
nonprofits, someone ends up in yourposition from a different path than you took.
It's refreshing to see the path youtook actually constantly was preparing you for
what you're doing now. In allthe words, I see a lot of
people in your position executive directors ofa lot of nonprofits that come from different
backgrounds than the mission of the actualcharity itself, But that works too sometimes

(02:34):
because they have different skills they're bringing. But in your case, you've been
dealing with this situation your entire careerto a certain extent, and it's,
for lack of a better word,it's groomed you to be the person that
you are, not the person thatyou are, but the position here and
now. I think that's great well, and for me, I think it's
it's different for everyone I never sawout necessarily to be executive director. I

(02:55):
felt connected and drawn to the workand I can't imagine being an exact director
of anything else but this work.And so I think a lot of times
it feels like a growth in anonprofit world to kind of try on different
nonprofits. But for me, itwas it was always about the work,
in the mission and the vision.Now, funny you should mention that.
So let's talk about the mission ofFearless of the Hudson Valley. Is what

(03:19):
is Fearless of the Hudson Valley andwhat is the mission? So you know,
we are going into our thirty sixthyear of existence. What started around
a kitchen table, which I feelreally is important and was, as I
mentioned, formerly called Safe Homes ofOrange County. You know, we've evolved
as well and looking for what itmeans to have a just, an equitable
and accountable society so that everyone canlive free from abuse and violence, and

(03:43):
that manifest in ways that we supportvictims of domestic violence, sexual violence,
human trafficking, and other crime victimizationswith a core focus in Orange and Sullivan
County as the only provider there,but really looking at a place in space
that people have body autonomy and agencyover themselves to make the decisions that they
need, the most informed decisions,and that really fundamentally, everyone has a

(04:04):
basic human right to live free fromviolence and abuse. And what are some
of the programs that So, youknow, it's interesting domestic violence especially,
it's not only the act itself ofdomestic violence, but you've got to get
involved in the in the causes.And there's many different forms and many different

(04:25):
causes for domestic violence. None ofit is right, none of it should
ever happen. But sometimes the rootof the problem is something you have to
get to before you can really fixthe problem itself. So how do you
approach this from Fearless of the HudsonValley. Well, I think you have
to look at it in a multipronged approach. There's not a one size
fits all. We have to addressboth on the front end of the back

(04:46):
end. We believe there are largersystemic issues, and we also believe that
domestic violence in those who use thoseabuse of behaviors, that it's a choice.
And so if it's a choice,it can be unlearned and you can
make different choices. And we atthe core of the work that we do
believe if it's a choice, thatthere's nothing that causes someone to be abusive.
It's not an anger management issue,it's not a mental health issue.
And certainly substance abuse and alcohol canprovide excuses for possibly different tactics and an

(05:11):
abuser may use, but ultimately theonly person that's using that behavior is choosing
to use that behavior. So wework on the back end, certainly by
addressing and supporting victims and survivors inmeeting them where they're at, and we
work on the front end around preventionand education. And that prevention and education
can look like anything from a kindergartenclassroom or a daycare, because you can
teach the smallest and the youngest ofchildren what it looks like around consent and

(05:36):
healthy relationships. Even the ability toshare one's pencil, or whether or not
they want to be touched, orwhether or not they want to be here
or be there. All of thosethings are deeply rooted in consent and what
it means to be a good friendand what it means to be a good
partner. All of those things canbe taught at age appropriate levels, and
so if we address those things onthe front end as well, and hope

(05:57):
that even if someone was potentially exposeto someone in their life using that behavior,
that they can learn that there's adifferent choice in how they respond in
relationships, whether that's their friendship oran intimate relationship. And it's interesting,
Kelly, and one of the problemswith anything that we're talking about a long

(06:18):
domestic violence or sexual abuse is alot of times it's hidden within the home
or maybe even the business, wherethe stigmas that are attached to it sometimes
won't allow people to seek the helpthey need sometimes. And it's interesting that
you talk about kindergarten classes and children. I assure you found in some cases

(06:41):
where someone who is in the householdbut not part of the abuse that's going
on, sees what's going on andmaybe can come to you or reach out
to somebody and get help, becausethe people involved sometimes don't seek the help
they if they've if they like youjust laid out, if they've lived a
life where they've gone through this theirentire life, and as crazy as it

(07:02):
sounds, it's almost what they're usedto, for lack of a better word,
sometimes they don't even realize that they'rein this horrible situation and they don't
ask for help. So that's gotto be a frustrating. Part of it
is just getting over that wall andgetting him to come out and say,
Hey, I've got a problem,or we've got a problem. What do
we do well. I think weare up against multiple layers of challenges for

(07:28):
victims and survivors because they you know, we as a society don't do a
very good job at believing victims andsupporting victims. And one of the most
effective tactics that abusers use as isolationand this perception of if you tell anybody,
no one will believe you. Andthat's why we spend a lot of
time educating this, you know,the community in society, because ultimately we

(07:49):
all know victims and survivors, butif we may not know them, it's
because we may not have created aspace safe enough for that person to say
what's really going on in their life. Because realistic speaking, that person that's
using that abusive behavior is operating oneway outside of the home and another way
to the person they claim to love. And so when a victim is able

(08:09):
to potentially tell someone what's happening,the outside world doesn't see that person's behavior,
it's very strategic on the abuser's point, and we have to recognize that
ultimately, it is such an effectivetactic of control that victims are often entrenched
and entrapped, not only with theinability to come forward about what may be
happening, but if we don't getit right, meaning if we don't believe

(08:31):
victims, if we don't support victims, then all we do is further isolate
them and potentially increase their danger.Speaking with Kelly Anne Castle, who is
the executive director or Fearless of theHudson Valley, and she's made it pretty
clear what Fearless of the Hudson Valleydoes. But anyone listening to us right
now, Kelly Anne, it's interestingwhat you just described. I'm hoping they're
really listening to us, because thereare people listening to us right now going

(08:52):
through exactly what you just describe thataren't reaching out for help and are either
accepting what's going on, or theabuser, who made it very clear,
is choosing to do that through intimidation, is keeping them from from reaching out
and threatening them if you will,or threatening someone they love that you know,

(09:13):
if you you know that you hearthat scenariola time. If you say
it, then about this, I'mgonna you know that kind of and and
that's frightening that it's going on.So hopefully if anybody listening to us is
in that situation, you can goto Fearless HV dot org and and find
out all about Kelly An's organization andthe services they have as their phone number.
Is there a phone number they cancall? Yeah, we have a

(09:33):
twenty four hour hotland. It's staffedby advocates twenty four hours a day,
and that's eight four or five fivesix two five three four zero. Say
it again, eight four or fivefive six two five three four zero.
So, if you're in that situation, you know what, make the phone
call and let the professionals tell youthat maybe it isn't what you think it

(09:54):
is, that's fine, but atleast make the phone call and get some
outside advice from somebody so you cana different perspective about what's going on in
your life and if you really doneed help, and if you do,
they're going to be there to helpyou. Absolutely. Kelly, and we've
got some events coming up. Let'stalk about that. I'm real quick you've
got a golf tournament coming up,right, we are. We're trying our
hand for the first time ever atgolfing. I mean, I'm not I'm

(10:16):
gonna, you know, stand onthe sidelines, but we are very excited.
September twelfth, Swing for Hope CharityGolf Tournament at otter Kill Country Club.
So we're always looking for opportunities forpeople to potentially sponsor. We're looking
for foursomes and two sums. I'mstill getting the golf link go down,
to be quite honest with you,but we are very very excited. You

(10:37):
know, the work that we dois heart and the reality of it is
is that when we're talking about thework both as you mentioned with victims and
survivors, but also holding those whoare using abuse of the behaviors accountable,
it can be really heavy. Andso looking for events that engage the public
in a way that can be funand interactive while raising awareness and spreading the
word on the work that we're doingis the goal. And so um we're

(11:01):
giving giving it a swing at thegolf tournament here and Fearless Lots of Value
is a nonprofit, correct, Yes, So you do need financial help always,
always and again it's it's fearless.Hv dot org is a website.
You can go on there and donate. But any of the events that the
organization holds, the purpose of theevent is to engage in the public,

(11:24):
to have some fun, but toraise some money. So you need sponsors
obviously, and you need people toparticipate most certainly, and you're looking for
donations all the time to keep tokeep you know, to keep you being
able to do what you're doing.You know, any nonprofit, that's the
lifeblood of the organization. And fortunatelyusually you found you find a lot of

(11:45):
like minded people who do want tosupport what you're doing, and that's what
you're looking for here. And thenyou've got the five k run. I
think the last time you were inwith me, we were talking about the
five k run think and that's comingup again, believe it or not.
We're so excited. You know,this started many, uh several years ago,
because we've really wanted an opportunity toengage not only adults, but families
and kids. And so we haveour we can be Heroes five k and

(12:11):
fun walk run and so we're outat the Orange County Airport. The only
good thing about that is it's flat, which means there's no hills. So
for those of us who you know, have that moment where we see the
hill and we're not sure we canmake it, it's flat. But we've
had such really great opportunities. Peopledress up, they really get into the

(12:31):
wee can be heroes theme. Itdoesn't have to be a superhero, it
could be a hero in your life. We've had everything. Last year we
had a Starbucks barista and a latterun, and we've also had a Family
of Incredibles run. But people havegotten so creative around you know, how
they define we can be a heroand who their heroes are. And it

(12:52):
makes it a lot more fun.Especially you know, you're you're having to
suck a win for you know,three point one miles, So it's a
lot of fun to run by people'scostumes and their interpretation of who can be
a hero, and you're gonna havea lot of fun killing. And I've
been to a couple of walker thonand five K runs at that airport,
some of the veterans groups. Iye, yeah, we've we've done it

(13:13):
there and it's it's a great It'sreally a great place to do it because
you can you can almost see everybodythe whole time. That's what I was
told, which is exciting. Yeah, which is really exciting. On you
do they leave the starting line andthen you don't see him for an hour
or so, and then all ofa sudden they come back and you know
it's not here. You see theentire thing unfold in front of you.
So that'll be really cool. Well, and if you're like me, you

(13:33):
always see the person that's coming infirst place within two seconds when you're only
at the quarter mile mark. Yeah. But we also have the Hudson Valley
Ghostbusters. They've been with us everyyear and they're always at the like the
halfway point, and I feel likeit's an exciting opportunity to be able to
see them the whole time because theybring their their you know, ghost Ghostbusters
mobile and they're in their full garb. It's a lot of fun. Yeah,

(13:54):
it sounds like it. So thisyear, that's on Sunday, October
twenty second. Yes, and youcan sign up for that at a at
the website itself, I guess isthat how? Yes, you can go
through our main website, Fearless HVdot org and click on events and it
will lead you to each of ourevents and the opportunity to either sign up
and participate or to sign up andsponsor and participate. We'll take whatever you

(14:16):
can do give, you know,actively participate in. We're grateful for any
support. So again, the golftournament is September twelfth, which is coming
up sooner than the walk, butnot that far away really at Auto Killer
Country Club. And then the walkwell this year that's on Sunday, October
twenty second at the Orange County Airportin Montgomery, which is a great facility

(14:37):
and you're gonna have a lot offun there and no panic. You know
what, if you want to qualifyand you want to use your time,
that's by fire. I'll you know, do it. If not, if
you want to walk, anybody cancome. Yeah, absolutely open to everybody,
and and you're hoping for everybody toshow up, right, we are
absolutely hoping for that, yes,Kelly. And it's interesting what we've been
through with COVID has taught a lotof different people a lot of different things

(15:01):
things in a lot of cases probablywe didn't know about ourselves. And with
Fearless, your mission has been veryclear. The entire time you've been in
existence. But going through COVID andand the restrictions had put on our lives
probably made a lot of the domesticsituations especially worse because now you were you

(15:22):
were a prisoner in your own houseto a certain extent, but now you
really were where you weren't going towork, you weren't going out social,
so you weren't You were in thatsituation constant. That had to make a
lot harder and probably you had togive you a lot more trying times dealing
with people. I would think,well, between you know, the start
of COVID and kind of where we'resitting now, our numbers and even in

(15:45):
our hotline halls are up forty threepercent. Wow. And yet we also
know that there were lots of individualsthat couldn't reach out to us because they
were being you know, for allthe right reasons around our health, also
being forced to isolate with some ofthe most dangerous people in their lives,
and it was almost impossible. Wehad to get creative. We had to
also develop a web chat because formany survivors they could not call us,

(16:07):
but webchat did work at the time, and so we had to think about
safety. I think, as yousay, what we learned, I probably
knew this deep down inside and maybedidn't want to come to accept it.
And I think one of the hardestthings for us that we learned was that
even a global pandemic didn't stop somepeople from using abusive behaviors. And where
we had hoped that maybe again wewould see some relief as people were trying

(16:30):
to you know, stay alive forother reasons, we didn't see those things.
And so I think for us it'sit's this constant, you know,
the benefits to that behavior still outweighthe consequences. And that's the shift that
we have to make as a society, is that the consequences for that behavior
have to outweigh the benefits. Sure, sure, and isolation isn't good for
almost any situation, but especially forone the ones that we're talking about.

(16:55):
You know, to think about someonegoing through this and someone who was trapped
and all of a sudden, atleast when you went to work, or
when you went to school, orwhen you left the house, you had
some escape from it. Maybe itwas only temporary, but you did have
some. Now you are no escape, and like you said, you didn't

(17:17):
have the ability to reach out andtalk to anybody because the abuser was right
there with you most of the time. The other thing that I think was
so unfortunate, and I don't wantto get political, but the bail were
formed that happened in New York State. I know, I have a lot
of friends in law enforcement, andthey were most upset about the domestic violence

(17:37):
calls they would go to because ina lot of cases, if it escalates
to a point where the authorities haveto get involved and the abuser is taken
out of the household and processed,there is a twenty four to forty eight
hour period where the cooling off tookplace, and it didn't cure it,
but it helped. Now you're ina situation where a lot of times the

(17:57):
abuser was taken process within a couplehours was back in that environment now angrier
than ever that they went through thatthat had to be a tough thing that
goes through And when you compound theisolation from COVID and then had happening at
the same time, that must havebeen a tough situation to deal with.
I mean, we obviously advocated inregards to addressing and holding those those very

(18:18):
serious domestic violence calls accountable. Andthe changes that came most recently on the
bail reform feel like they do addressthose things. I mean, we always
felt like from a philosophical perspective thatno one should be sitting somewhere because they're
poor, right, and yet weneed a system to take domestic violence seriously,
and that really has nothing to dowith bail. That has to do

(18:40):
with a system that has to recognizethat those individuals who choose to use this
abusive behavior in their home have aripple effect to the outside world. Their
children go to school with other children, they work with other individuals, They
all of us are interconnected, andso we have to recognize and understand that
until we as a society take thosewho use those behavior very seriously and hold
them accountable, both within the criminaland civil systems, but also in society,

(19:04):
then we won't see true progress.And it's stopping. And so you
know, there's still a lack ofconsistency across this state within courtrooms on how
even judges treat domestic violence, andthose things have to change too. Oh
absolutely, And again we're not gettingpolitical. I'm just I know that had
a big effect. Yeah, andI can tell you the law enforcement officers,

(19:26):
I know, we're devastated by this. They don't that for a law
enforcement that is the worst call theycan respond to. They will tell you
that's the last thing they want torespond to because most of them have families
themselves, and they and when theyget there, they see what's going on,
and they want to be able tohelp, but they're restrained in some
ways how they can and can't help. But they get so frustrated. And

(19:48):
then you know, I've had manyof them call me up and say,
listen, you know, we're backthere three hours later doing it all over
again, and we're scared of death. That as this escalates, it's going
to become deadly, is what's goingto happen. And because the person that
gets so unenraged that is doing thisbehavior, that it just escalates each time.
So, yeah, that had tobe And and you explain it very

(20:08):
well, and you're right the perceptionand the stigma that's attached a lot of
times, I think you're right.I think the the victim is not given
as much of a benefit of thedoubts as the person that's that's acting out
and doing this, you know,and a lot of times, like you
said, the person has a perceptionin public of being somebody different than they

(20:30):
really are in private, and youdon't want to believe that they're doing this,
so all of a sudden, you'regiving them the benefit of the doubt,
and you're looking at the victim like, are you sure this is really
you know what I mean? Andthat's got to be a frustrating situation.
Well, and we're asking the victimto put a lot on the line for
what's often equivalent for a traffic ticket. If the victim could make the abuse
stop, police and myself, wewouldn't be needed in these situations. And

(20:51):
I you know, I believe verystrongly that they're the some of the most
dangerous calls for law enforcement to goto. And this is really around giving
giving officers the tools that they needfrom a state perspective to hold these individuals
accountable because ultimately, as I said, like the risk to the victim is
obviously there, but there are otherpeople that are also at risk, including
law enforcement officers that are responding tothese these very dangerous calls, because these

(21:15):
individuals are not only dangerous to theirpartners, but they can become very dangerous
to law enforcement as well, youknow, And until we give officers the
right tools to hold these individuals accountableand court systems follow through and that accountability,
you know, the burden is oftenplaced on the victim, and we're
asking a lot of them when asystem often fails them. Sure and sure,
yeah, And in the end,they're the ones that have the most

(21:38):
to lose. They really do well. They're more afraid of the person using
that behavior than anyone else. Andthat's and so if the you know,
no matter how well of a jobofficer does in that moment, the reality
of it is is that still thatthat case still has to go through a
system, and there's lots of opportunityfor that system to fail that victim,
and it's a lot for that victimto risk. And so you know,
I hear it, and I getit, and I work with officers all

(22:00):
the time, and I'm often youknow, worried for them as well when
they're responding because they're you know,they have home field advantage and abuser it's
their home right, and you givethem access to weapons and things like it
just increases danger for police officers too. Yeah, And the manipulation and the
intimidation of the of the abuser tothe victim is very strong and sometimes can

(22:21):
can cause the victim to do somethingthat they probably don't really want to do,
and you know that can be intimidatedinto dropping the charges or you know,
and I'm sure the personalities that youdeal with where the abusers especially will
play the game or all, I'llnever do it again. I'm sorry,
I won't and they don't mean that, but they they've figured out a way
to beat the system and you know, get through that situation so that I

(22:44):
don't envy what you do and Iand I really it's important that we're talking
what we're talking about, because again, if you're listening to us and you're
going through this, there is help. There is a way out. You
don't You may not believe that rightnow, but there is. And Kelly
Anne, especially Kelly Ann and herfoundation, they are in business to help
you. That's why they're there,that's why they do what they do.

(23:04):
Again, speaking with Kelly and Costlewho is the executive director or Fearless of
the Hudson Valley. Their website isFearless HV dot org and the phone number
is eight four or five five sixtwo five three four zero Kelly, And
in a few minutes we have left. So you've been doing this for as
you say, thirteen years now atfearless yet fearless, but your entire career,

(23:26):
really you've been involved Fnny. Yeah, where do you if you had
a wish list, what would youlike to see happen? You know,
relatively quickly, what transformation? Whatwould you know? I mean, and
doing this as long as you've doneit, you've been able to look at
a lot of different aspects of this. Where where are we lacking and where
do you have hope? Where doyou see things going? Well? I

(23:48):
think that the place that we're lackingthe most is within society accountability and recognizing
that these things, you know,start at a very you know, young
age, and they're reinforced in allsorts of ways that we all don't even
realize. They're reinforced within gender,They're reinforced, you know, within our
expect expectations of gender roles, andso we are conditioned from the moment that
we're born to have belief systems andour own conscious and unconscious bias about these

(24:12):
things. And so you know,I think our work is on the front
end while balancing that there will alwaysbe victims that need support and services,
right, and so I would liketo not have to beg for a paper
clip, and that people recognize thatif we you know that, if we
take care of our neighbor, youknow, all of us know victims and
survivors, and whether you need usnow or you need us in the future,

(24:33):
we have to find a way thatwe support individuals that are impacted by
violence. And you know, myhope is that we start to get funding
and support to realize that trauma andabuse and victimization is a lifetime of healing
and we really need to support thewhole person and not just the criminal and
civil system, but really the abilityto heal and build resiliency for victims and

(24:53):
survivors, while balancing that accountability insociety that you know you mentioned earlier.
I long for a day that theydon't see the work that we do as
political. The reality of it isis that regardless of where you sit,
regardless of what you believe, anyonecan be a victim. And it's so
prevalent in our country, but reallyglobally that if we shift our work around

(25:15):
accountability. I think it will havelong term impact on everything, on school
bullying, on our own healthy relationships, on larger conversations around mass murders,
like all of those things are connectedto looking at family violence. And so
if we look at family violence froma global perspective, really truly hope that

(25:36):
it will have a ripple effect inaddressing all sorts of other society concerns.
But we have to see it asa core and root problem first, and
so my hope is that we getthere one way or the other. Yeah,
And it's interesting because you've made overthe past ten years, there has
been some strides that have been made. People are starting to become more aware
of what's going on at least andstarting to realize that any time you deal

(26:02):
with I do a lot in aveteran community, I do a lot with
law enforcement, and anytime you dealwith a mental health situation. Unfortunately,
you know, if you break yourarm or if your appendix is bad,
you'll go to a doctor and gettreated. But with mental health, it's
an illness that needs to be treated, and that stigma and that perception isn't
there. People don't look at itthe same way. There are professionals out

(26:25):
there who can help you. Thereare treatments available that can help you,
just like having your appendix removed isa treatment. But with mental health,
unfortunately, we don't just to whatwe were talking about. We don't perceive
it that way. Our view is, that's a lot of times, you
know, you want to tell amental health I've seen it happen. You
just get over it, you know, and it's that's not it. It's

(26:45):
an illness. Well, they havevictims and survivors have PTSD. I mean,
there's lots of research right now aroundtheir veterans and domestic violence and looking
at traumatic brain injuries, looking atPTSD that this is not something you can
just get over. This takes alifetime of healing. These are the invisible
wounds that we can't see right Andso when we look at holding someone accountable,
you know they're not mentally ill.They have a choice and they need

(27:07):
to make a different choice. Butwhen we look at the impact of violence
on victims and children in their lives, we have to understand that the emotional
scars are invisible and it takes alifetime to heal, and we have an
obligation to support victims and survivors.So Kelly an Colstle, who is the
executive director or Fearless of the HudsonValley is here to help you, or

(27:29):
organization is here to help you,but they need help as well because they've
got to stay in business. Andyou've got two really quickly before we went
out of time. September twelfth isthe Swing for Hope. Swing for Hope,
which is a really cool name,that's coming up on September twelfth at
the outer Kill Country Club. Sunday, October twenty second is their fifth annual
five k run walk, which isfor the entire family, and really the

(27:52):
focus on is it is a fundraiser, but the focus is to come out,
dress up, is your favorite superhero, whether that be or someone in
your family or a superhero that weall know, and just have a great
day enjoying the fresh air and havingfun. So you can find out about
either one of those at their websiteFearless HV dot org and the phone number
one more time eight four to fivefive six two five three four zero.

(28:17):
Kelly, and thanks so much forspending time with us, and I hope
that people listening to us listen towhat you said, and it starts to
again from what you told me thelast couple of minutes. The stigma and
the public awareness and perception of whatgoes on, that's what we need to
change, and we are changing it. But it's very slow and we need

(28:37):
to go faster, I hope.But anyone listening who is struggling again fearless
HV dot org or the phone numberone more time eight four five five six
two five three four zero. Kelly, Thanks for coming out. We'll talk
to you again real soon as weget closer to the events, we'll have
you back in and we'll talk somemore. Thank you for having me.
I hope you enjoyed this week's episodeof clear View Hudson Valley, and I

(28:57):
want to remind you that all theepisode oads are available on a clear View
Huts Valley podcast available at iHeartRadio dotcom. I'm uncle Mike, and if
I don't see you out and about, I'll catch you on the radio.
Have a great week, everyone,
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