Georgia Focus - CJ Walker Museum

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to Georgia Focus. I'm John Clark on the Georgia
News Network. The Madam C. J. Walking Museum and w
r D Studio in Atlanta's Leet Auburn Historic District, located
near Martin Luther King Junior National Historical Park, was founded
by hairstylists and beauty educator Recy de Forest. It honors
Madame C. J. Walker, America's first female self made millionaire,
also preserving the legacy of wer D, the first black

(00:33):
owned radio station, word was instrumental in amplifying civil voices
and popularizing what is now known as R and B music.
Ricy de Forest, Fatima and Chicago Mike from Cool in
the Gang recently spoke with G and n's Katie Gray.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Tell me about the museum. Ooh, you know what, I
think what's really important is I love going almost in
chronological order. So I was really touched and would love
to share for you in your own words on talking
about how you came across this space.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Okay, and I usually do that through the tour.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
So what I'll do is give you and the listeners
the tour as if you walked into the museum.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Okay, yes, yes.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Greetings, My name is Reesi. I'm the curator and artistic
director of the Madam CJ. Walker Museum. This space actually
was an original Madam CJ. Walker beauty shop from the
nineteen forties. I stumbled onto it purely by accident, but
my clients say I was guided there. Nevertheless, thirty years ago,
I had the privilege of traveling as an international makeup

(01:34):
artist and hairstylists. There's a beauty publication that is still
around called Essence Magazine. I had the pleasure of doing
some of the makeup in the hair for the cover
of Essence when they first started, and then Fashion Fair
Cosmetics launch, which was Johnson Publishing. They plucked me to
travel as an international makeup artist for Fashion Fair. So

(01:55):
at that time I had a salon in Atlanta. Back
from one of my trips, I had a little convertible
at the time. I'm riding around. I'm on Auburn Avenue.
I make a right turn on Hilliard. I looked to
my left and I see, unbelievably Madam CJ. Walker Beauty
shop on the window. Slam on my brakes, get out
of the car, walked over to that window and just
start touching it.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Out of respect.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
I watched that window for ten years, never interested in
the area or the space. My clientele was upscale over
an Avenue. As much as I love, it was not
an upscale area, so I was never interested in moving
in there until eleven years later. I needed a new
location for my hair selon and I thought about that window.

(02:38):
I came back to check. No one was there, so
I asked the barber next door who owns the space.
He said, the Mason's owned the whole building in their
office is upstairs. I go upstairs check with the Masons.
They say the space is available. I signed the lease
right away. I come down excited to clean up, not
expecting to find vintage beauty tools left from the last

(03:02):
living agent because they weren't called stylists at that time
to work in the salon, and her name was Mother Dot.
Her proper name was Dorothy Smart, so I begged the
family to bring her over so I could chat and
learn a little more about the space. Mother Dot comes
in and tells me that when she started doing hair

(03:23):
with those tools that I found in the nineteen forties
that a shampoop service for a Negro woman was twenty
five cents. She also mentioned in that conversation that Junior
King used to get his hair cut at the barbershop.
She saw doctor King as a kid and he got
his hair next door. It was Matthew's barbershop before mister

(03:45):
Burton bought it, and now Junior Burden's son operates the
beauty Uh the uh barbershop. I'm excited. I'm preserving the legacy.
Two years into the least black woman from the neighborhood
sticks her head in the door. It says mster REESI
did you know that the first black owned radio station
in America operated directly about this beauty shop and that

(04:08):
I could hear the music as a little girl coming
out of the window on my way to school. I'm
completely floored. It was word radio, the origin of the
expression word.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
How do you? I mean, how does that not just
stop you in your track?

Speaker 3 (04:25):
It does? I mean?

Speaker 4 (04:27):
I feel like I'm cheating the system. Every day I
get to preserve and promote a legacy so rich it's
beyond my ability to explain it.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
This is the gift that keeps on giving.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well well and too. It's so fascinating how you know,
obviously their legacy and their history and how much of
a personal tie that you have to that. I mean,
it's amazing the career that you have and getting to
be in a space where, in many ways in the
country that's where it started.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
It's because of them that I was able to do
what I was doing. There's more history in that building
per square inch than any other structure in the South.
Will start with the fact that it's an original Madam C. J.
Walker beauty shop. Doctor King got his haircut at the

(05:27):
barbershop next door. Above the beauty shop was the first
black owned and operated radio station in North America. On
the other side of the wall was Doctor King as
an adult, his original headquarters for SELC. But information that
the Masons didn't even know that above Doctor King's office

(05:49):
was a beauty school operated by a Negro beauty pioneer.
There was a millionaire that was not in the movie.
Anni Alone was in the movie.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Madam C. J.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
Walker was in the movie. But above Doctor King's office
was Apex Beauty School owned by Sarah Spencer Washington out
of New Jersey. Two Negro millionaire beauty pioneers in one building.
These are the origins of the black haircare industry. Anim Alone,
Madam CJ. Sarah Spencer, Washington. And even though we are

(06:26):
aware of the million dollar status that these Negro women had,
what's unfortunate is that no one talks about the other
Negro women who were making five to eight hundred thousand
dollars in nineteen thirty, forty and fifty. That is insane.
So I do not focus on Walker's wealth. I focus

(06:48):
on what she did with her wealth. They called themselves
race women, women for the race. They had a business
model that is long lost. One third for themselves, whether
it was a dollar or a million, one third for
the cost Negro women with a cause, and one third

(07:09):
to the business. And they still became millionaires.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
That is.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Something special, and there is something to be said to
you about part of their legacy that, at least in
my exposure to it, doesn't get talked enough about. You
what you just mentioned. It's like, you know, oh, Madam
c J. Walkers, who's the first female black selfie millionaire.
But you're right, even what you mentioned, just how much

(07:37):
she used that platform.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Legacy a discredit because most of the time when people
spill that information out, that's where it stops.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
That is a.

Speaker 4 (07:51):
Complete discredit to everything that she was and did with
her wealth.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
And you coming across that space in many ways, in
many ways communicates to me how much of a focus
isn't on that piece of the legacy. Absolutely, because the
actual space where all of that was happening, I mean
so much happening under one roof, and the way that
you described your story when you came across the space
was completely empty. Yeah, it was just sitting there, vacant.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
No one was ever there when I came by. I
don't know how long it had been vacant. But fortunately
for me, I remember that window, came by, got the space,
and this is where we are today. For twenty six years,
we've been preserving and promoting these rich legacies.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Well, a piece that I want to ask you and
give you an opportunity to say, because I don't want
to miss this piece, is you communicating to me about
your mission and when it comes to preserving this piece
of legacy and being able to pass this on to
further generations.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
The fact that I did not know to go from
Walker to WRD, the fact that I didn't know anything
about the first black radio station in North America, to me,
was shocking within the African American community. And I'm not
going to pull any punches in saying this, but beauty

(09:18):
and music is on par with oxygen and food within
the black community. They are so significant to not know
about w r D, the station that provided a platform
for Negro artists that wouldn't be played on white stations

(09:38):
because their music was called race music music by negroes
for negroes not to be played. W r D played
these artists and doctor King was able to use that
station as a platform to coordinate logistics for the Civil
Rights movement and to deliver his sermons. That station is

(09:58):
as crucial to the move movement as King hisself.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, and it's it's just remarkable because so much happening
under that one roof, in so many ways created arguably
created spaces across different platforms, whether it was the beauty industry,
the music industry, the arts having creating a space that especially,
I mean, if we're talking you know the nineteen forties

(10:23):
and the fifties and sixties, black people didn't have exactly.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
They provided the Walker Turnbow and Sarah Spencer Washington provided
a skill set for Negro women to become independent. That
is the legacy, not how much each one made, but
what they did with their.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Wealth, well, speaking about what they did with their legacy
and what they used their platform and their position to do,
let's talk about what you're doing now.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
Walker, Turnbo and Malone were very much to race women.
In other words, they found ways to empower other Negro women.
So in that spirit, I partner with black female businesses
with the museum, letting them use the space as long
as it's in par with a positive message. So in

(11:22):
the room with us, we have my sister in law
Nika and Fatima that have what's called the blues and
what is it called.

Speaker 5 (11:31):
Blends and blues, blends and blues, blends.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
And blues, So they bring their blends and then while
they're doing that, I get the opportunity to introduce a
room full of young people the music from nineteen twenty
to nineteen eighty on vinyl. So it's a complete immersive
experience and it's done in an original Madam C. J.
Walker Beauty shop directly under the first black radio station

(11:58):
in North America and sandwiched in between the original headquarters
for SELC, which was Doctor King on the right and
Burdens Barbershop where doctor King got his haircut on the left.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
So basically what's amazing is that this space is continuously
over you know, going into a century around the century,
still being able to benefit the black community absolutely.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
The two hundred and fiftieth year Celebration of America is
in July twenty twenty six, so we're gearing up to
celebrate that with the expansion of the museum with a
nineteen thirties tea room that will be connected to the museum,
as well as a nineteen thirties speakeasy.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Oh, I'll definitely be popping by that members only. Members only,
well hopefully since you're telling me about it beforehand, get
I get VIP right, Yeah, you know that? Okay, good.
I just want to make sure my my name's already
on the list. I don't want to get turned away
at the door. It's very very exclusive. Actually, I was
going to say it was like so our friends because
you mentioned the blooms, blends and blues, which is nice.

(13:11):
It is thank you tell me about what does that
really look like? What is that? What is it really
the catering to the part of the community.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
So the blends and blues, what blends are is? I
am a four twenty scientist and I particularly specialize in
and I'm certified. My degree is in bio and kim
and then I'm actually a certified dispensary technician.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
So I heal with plants.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
I also use herbs. It's a holistic experience from the
physical product level. So that's the blends, right, we incorporate
all kinds of different plants. We all came together, right,
three black women and said, no, we need to do more.
We need to bring this product into an experience that

(13:59):
really hit all the senses to really help people understand
the commitment to healing, the commitment to what we're putting
in our body. And so the bud Bar the social
aspect of how it brings people together and with the
history of the space, the music aspect, the richness of it,

(14:21):
and the commitment to healing. The Madam CJ. Walker Museum
in partnership with the bud Bar Experience, which is my home.
My parent company, is called Pure Path. Right, thinking about
walking the pure Path that allow us all under twenty
to thirty, you know on average age, create a platform
for us to be able to heal, bring the community

(14:43):
together and learn. Right, there's so many things that I
didn't know. I'm learning on this radio right now. You know,
there's so many things that I didn't know. As a
twenty seven year old young woman, I heard the name
Madam C. J.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Walker.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
I knew the significance, but not the impact. Right besides
her money, so Reesi has taught me the power of
It's not about the dollar, it's about the impact. It's
about the richness, it's about the history, it's about the people.
And so going into that space, it's a commitment to
healing mind, body, and spirit, ancestral healing as well.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
So when I sit back at the Butd Bar experience
in the museum and watch Shanika and Fatima and her
her crowd of unique personalities, they don't realize that I'm
observing from a completely different perspective because their whole other generation.

(15:40):
And what I noticed is there is a renaissance taking
place that is parallel to the Harlem Renaissance. In New York,
Auburn Avenue was going through that same renaissance. But Atlanta,
Georgia doesn't have the same what is the term I

(16:03):
need clout that New York would have, so no one
really talks about it. The same thing that was taking
place in Harlem musically, culturally, politically was taking place on
Auburn Avenue. So as I watched their group in my space,
I'm recognizing and I can feel the presence of a

(16:27):
modern day nineteen twenties Renaissance taking place on Auburn Avenue.
But it is actually happening. Black professionals on every level
are killing it.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Exploring the area more and going into You almost would have,
especially right now, more of the pockets, but it's almost
as if your mission is to set out to connect
those individual pockets so that there is more of that
sense of community and connection.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
That is exactly what's taking place. And I was delighted
to get a text from HDDC, which has been preserving
the legacy and promoting the legacy of Auburn Avenue over
the past like thirty or forty years, reach out to
me and say exactly what you just said. We are
going to connect these various entities and see how we

(17:20):
can help one another.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Then you've got this.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Character to my left, Chicago Mike, who walks in and
I'm thinking, you know, okay, my forte is music from
nineteen twenty up into the nineteen seventies, here comes Chicago.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Mike.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
When he comes in, I learned so much about an
area of music that I'm not familiar with. Chicago brings
an insight from the inside of the music industry. Everything
that I have is from the outside looking in. So
he's able to show turn the mirror around this way
and show me what it's like on the inside. So anyway,

(17:58):
Chicago might do you thir anyway, Chicago, do you think?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Man? I was so excited to chat with you because
it's funny to me. You're like, oh, I'm nobody. I'm like, Okay,
we need to talk about the significance of the radio
station and the industry, and I'm so excited to hear
from you. Go ahead.

Speaker 6 (18:15):
Well, in my opinion, I have at least least of
all the reason to be here. But I'll tell you
a little bit about myself and Cooling a Gang. I'm
from the South. I started with Cooling a Gang in
nineteen eighty five. The band celebrated its sixtieth a year

(18:35):
last year, twenty twenty four. The band was started in
nineteen sixty four. We're celebrated because of the song celebration
get Down on It, Ladies' Night and how I met
this young man to my right, I was, of course,
I'm into history, coming from Chicago, and when I moved

(18:59):
here two thousand and five, I thought I was just
passing through, been here twenty years, and as being into history,
I found out about the Historical Barbershop. So I wanted
to get my haircut at the historical barbershop, and I
did that. But as I came out of the Historical barbershop,

(19:23):
this historical music was playing and it was next door,
and I just I had to find out who where
it was coming from. And this was a few years ago,
and I went in and got a chance really to
meet this gentleman here. I call him international, you know,

(19:46):
because he's been around the world just like I have.
And we just clicked right away because of his fundness
for music, and of course my fundness for music, because
it's my business, you know, it's my profession, it's my career.
And we just started talking and I just started looking
at the place and just fell in love with the history,

(20:10):
with the knowledge that he has and the things that
he's done to really teach people, because that's really what
he is.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
He's a teacher.

Speaker 6 (20:20):
To me, he's like a professor, and I just I
was stopping in for a minute, and I ended up
being there three or four hours, really because the place
really does that to you. And with that being said,
we really became good friends over the years, and every

(20:40):
time I get my haircut, I'm there.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Tell me about I'm really curious from your perspective, the
significance of the radio station, the WERD being preserved in
that space, and everything that came from that. As a musician,
what are your thoughts, what are your impression.

Speaker 6 (21:00):
That Well, basically, and I'm glad you asked that question, Well, basically,
music truly, it's so cerebra it really is.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
It touches the.

Speaker 6 (21:14):
Spirit like nothing else. And just like you was saying,
Vinyl the warmth when years ago, when they were creating
albums and records, you can really get the true essence
of what the musician was doing. When today it's computerized,

(21:38):
so it's mechanical. So you're not getting that warmth, you're
not getting that knowledge, you're not getting that essence from music.
You're just hearing it and you enjoy it. But if
you were to spend time in the museum and just
listen to some of the music from way back. You

(22:00):
can really get a feel from what they were thinking,
what they were feeling, and it's easily transposed to you
and it will give you that feeling that, wow, this
is what they were feeling back then.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
You know well, And I don't know if if you
were called that. You told me this when we first met,
when I came in on Sunday, we were talking about
the aspects about creating, you preserving, but in many ways
trying to expand that space where it was giving you know,
this generation, the next generation, a space where they can
come in and experience it. Because I will say aside,

(22:37):
and this is a personal testimony, and I would be
curious on if you had the same experience when I
walked in. I'm born and raised in Georgia. I can't
think of a space other than growing up and my
dad playing those records where I could go in and
really experience that and have that immersion of history. I
don't know that we really have that as much preserved.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, this is a unique space, very unique space. My
son said it best when he said it's disarming racially
sized religion.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Whatever. That space will disarm you, it owns you, and
it heals you.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
The room of truth because these artists that are celebrated
within the WERD years were artists that created music. Whether
music was in front of the money, money is in
front of the music now, so there's a corrupting factor.
It's just inevitable. It's just what money does. You know,
it's no disrespect to the artists, it's just a spiritual

(23:36):
and cultural reality. These artists produced the music straight from
their heart. They weren't going after any kind of dollar amount.
You know, it's regretful that they didn't benefit from all
of their art, but they gave their lives for this music.
So we owe a debt of gratitude.

Speaker 5 (23:56):
That's why I love, you know, being in rec space
to be able to have the gap filled between wisdom
and application. It took them a long time to apply
because they had to learn. It takes us a short
term short time to apply because we don't have to learn.
So now we can enhance our essence as a young
person with the historical knowledge, because you're going to radiate

(24:21):
different when you know you can push buttons, but the
connections that you're going to have the impact that your
music is going to have is going to be short
lived because you didn't have the essence of longevity, right
rec Space is going to have longevity cooling. The gang
is going to have longevity because they understood essence, not
just practicality. And so I encourage all young people to

(24:46):
think about if you want to be eight generations in
longevity or do you want to be now? You know,
because if you want to be now, push buttons. But
if you want to live across gen generations in forever
and truly be timeless, truly create generational wealth, you're going
to have to learn the essence. And the only way

(25:07):
you're going to learn the essence is if you partner
with older people.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
We can't PLoud her now.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
I need to spend more time with Fatima.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
You do, I talked to that. I learned every day.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
That's Riese de Forest, Fatima and Chicago Mike talking about
the Madame Cjwalking Museum and WRD Studio. If you want
to find out more about them, visit Madamcjwalkmuseum dot com.
If your questions your comments on today's show, email me
John Clark at Georgianewsnetwork dot com. Thanks for listening. I'll
talk to you next week right here in your local
radio station on Georgia focus