Georgia Focus - GPEE

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Georgia Focus. I'm John Clark on the Georgia
News Network. The Georgia Partnership for Excellence and Education connects
leaders across our state to create better educational opportunities for
students and more positive economic outcomes for communities. They've just
released their top ten Issues to watch for twenty twenty five.
Here to they talk about the issues are doctor Dannel Rickman,
President and CEO, and Matt Smith, Director of Policy and Research. Well,

(00:31):
here we are today, Top ten Issues Exits in Education,
Georgia Partnership for Excellence in Education. Good to have you
all in today.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Happy new year, Thank you, Happy, you're happy New Year
twenty five. You can believe it.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
You just were here the other day. It's great. It's great.
I know every year that it's a new year when
we have you guys in to do these top ten
issues and so let's get right to them then it
we'll am gonna start a top to ten and go
down to one. So but there are no particular orders.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well they're not in any particular order of priority, okay,
But we did do something a little different this year
where we kind of made chapters as you were so
like groups of them hang together, okay, and I'll let
the primary author, our policy director Matt Smith, talk about
the three different sections and then we can dive in
real briefly.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, for sure. So we do have a stage studying issue,
but we have nine issues that are subsequent to that,
and issues two through four we call a recipe for
deeper learning, and these are the factors that support student
success and well being. The middle three issues, issues five
through seven, we're talking about how we can configure state
systems of support to support school and the community leaders.

(01:42):
And finally we have the final three issues regarding things
that we want to see happen in the future that
will prepare us for individual prosperity and community resilience as
well as state economic security. So that's how we kind
of set that out this year in chapters.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Who gets this in everybody gets it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Our target audience are our stakeholders, which again are not
only like state level policymakers who make the decisions about
you know, schools and workforce pipelines, but also community leaders, advocates,
business leaders. We have folks who use this who teach
education policy at the different institutions of higher education. Our
goal here is to take complex education issues and really

(02:25):
break them down so the average lay person can understand
why is this issue important, what are some options for Georgia,
and how can I, as either a parent, a community leader,
or a legislator use this information to help make better
choices and better decisions.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, well, let's get started. The issue number ten is
investing in Georgia's future, measuring what matters.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Right, So we're doing the countdown. I guess so Issue
ten and Issue one are kind of connected. So that's
kind of a good way of testing to this, John,
So Issue ten, we're talking about a new mindset, the
idea that we're measuring what matters. Often what happens is
that we kind of measure things like how many students
graduate high school, how many complete a post secondary degree

(03:08):
or credential, whereas we don't know how they got to
that result or more importantly, what happened, so they didn't
have a great result like that. And so we have
proposed that there would be a set of leading indicators
that allow us to predict how individuals and communities they
live and how they can support that work. And so

(03:29):
that's really what we're doing. And so in that issue
we proposed two things. One of them around state finance
is to think about satting a clearer vision, which we
outlined issue one and go into greater depth for an
issue ten. The second thing is around the idea that
communities drive solutions and so we can learn a lot
about them when we have accountability conversations at the state level.

(03:52):
And so really ethos around issue ten is that communities
drive solutions, but states can support community innovation. And so
the idea is how could we then have state finance
and state accountability support community innovation.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Hey, just the one thing about sort of changing this mindset,
and again this is really one in ten together is
thinking about the overall support public will and leadership will
to invest in and support public education. And the good
measures that Matt's talking about is how do we know
what we're doing is actually working, Like what's a good
return on investment? Are the programs working? And really think

(04:30):
about why we're putting our money where we're putting it
and is it getting the best bang for our dollar?

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Issue number nine Artificial intelligence usually technologies to support learning.
Artificial intelligence I hearing that I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
If you've heard about this. AI is a thing I know,
you know, it's one of those things. It's like back
of the Stone ages when I was in school and
they said, oh, let kids use a calculator. You know,
it's one of those things where it could be a hammer,
where it can build something great, or you can to
meet somebody with it. And so really thinking about recommendations
on how school districts and postsecondary can really use AI

(05:09):
to enhance learning, to build inefficiencies for instructors and teachers,
but also what kind of guardrails do we need to do,
and that it still needs that human component to guide
the positive uses of AI and not some of the
more nefarious abuses of it.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, and I would add too to Data's point that
what's really important as well with AI is the idea
that are more well resourced schools and districts will be
early adopters of AI and it's positive uses. But we
need to make sure that to a point that the
state is involved to make sure that those maybe are
under resource still benefit from artificial intelligence as.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, so that the states that I say this as
a resource sort of like for AI, you thin, well,
we don't have anything else to use as use that
to helping in the smaller, smaller jurisdictions. Is that the
case you think that'll be used more, I mean.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
It can be. There's so many different things around it.
You know, Greenett County has worked really hard to create
some guidance for the system in terms of how do
we embed AI in our professional development, how do we
embed it in our instruction things like that to really
assist sort of infusing AI into their everyday work. But

(06:21):
then you have smaller districts that maybe don't have the bandwidth,
the connectivity, all of these other things to actually use
AI in a positive way. And so you have and
you have, you know, generations of kids who grew up
that you know, technology savvy, much more so than some
of the teachers in the classroom who will adopt it.
You know, when kids get a hold of something new,

(06:42):
they can run with it. And so how do we
make sure that more under resource schools and districts are
able to keep up with the technology which is changing
faster than we could even learn about what happened last year, Right,
so all of these considerations need to be that's where
the state can really help support and spread knowledge.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Issue number eight is employability. Looking to twenty thirty three
and beyond.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah, and so one thing that we've been looking at
and kind of underpins our work is what we call
the ed Quest Georgia Initiative, and the idea is is
that we want to ensure that sixty five percent of
George's adult change twenty five to sixty four have earned
a post secretary credential value. And this kind of details
with what we're talking about with AI AI is a
disruptive innovation, but so is the idea that we want

(07:26):
to make sure that those folks that are going to
be upset by a changing economy are able to continue
to seek and obtain employment. And so really in this issue,
we're focusing on mostly those folks that maybe have just
maybe a high school diploma or don't even have a
high school diploma, because those are the people that are
going to be most negatively affected, most immediately by changes

(07:48):
in the economy between now and twenty thirty three.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Also, try I would add on this one. When we
think about education policy public education policy, we naturally think
about like the K twelve space. Sometimes we think about
post secondary and we think about students who are in
you know, at Georgia Tech or Georgia state or whatever.
But there's an entire adult population across Georgia that needs
public education services as well. So we can't forget about

(08:11):
the adults. And this issue really looks at one aspect
of that.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
And the final thing too, to kind of rip on
that what Dana said too, this is a large population.
We're talking about almost forty percent of the adult population
that either has only a high school diploma or doesn't
have a high school diploma or equivalency. So we're talking
about two out of five Georgians. That's a lot.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Wow, that really is a lot.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I want to be the being the best date to
do business.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, to make sure that those.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
People get caught up and stay caught up.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Absolutely. Issue oh seven post secondary transitions, non traditional routes
to work readiness.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, and this underpins the employability issue that we just
talked about that there has been a lot of work.
It still needs to be a lot of work, and
you know, transitioning from high school into post secondary and
getting that degree or that job. And we think in
terms of degrees like a bachelor's degree or an associate's degree,
but there's a lot of work in Georgia being done
around short term credentially and sort of non degree non

(09:06):
credit pathways that get you to that certificate or that
next level of employment and thinking about career strategies. And
so this issue really looks at the role and purpose
of non degree programs getting those needed credentials.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, there are there there's still so many people that
they have high school diplomas or do they they don't
have high school diplomas that that need jobs. Can they
go back and get these diplomas? Yes, that's what you
recommend it.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, And where Georgia is almost an embarrassment of riches
where we have so many opportunities for it. If you
have a high school diploma or you're close to completing
some sort of high school equivalency, that there are a
lot of opportunities to join the workforce in a very
low cost, almost no cost way. In terms of getting
these types of credentials. They have what they call laddered
programs where one certification leads to another, and so you

(09:56):
can actually go into a career pathway not just a job,
very low cost, if not no cost, depending on where
you're going. But where Georgia really needs some help is
communicating that like knowing that these pathways are available, knowing
where to get, and that you can really work your
way up into a good career without spending almost any
money of your own through these kinds of pathways.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Issue number six, Tailoring schools staffing to students, teachers and
community needs.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, I'll take this one to John. I think what's
really interesting about what we saw in the pandemic is
is that schools and districts were really accelerating these kind
of innovative ideas because they had to, you know, they
had to make sure that there were mental health facilitators
in a bilding, making sure that there were tutors and
interventionists to make sure that people that are students that
are falling behind had the resources they need. And now

(10:45):
as we've exited the pandemic, John, what do we do?
What do we do to kind of make that permanent?
And so that's the crux of this issue and the literature.
We call it strategic staffing, and that's just a fancy
way of saying, how can we align student and communitnity
needs to how we staff schools And so it's not
just teachers, it's mental health facilitators. It's like I said, tutors, coaches,

(11:08):
pair of professionals. How can we make sure that we're
staffing according to what students need?

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Issue number five Strong Foundations Ensuring Georgian's youngest are primed
for lifelong success started out young.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, this has really been a core issue we've been
talking about for the last several top tens. The idea
that Georgia would benefit from a unified child development strategy
where we blend or what we call in our industry
mixed delivery, meaning that students receive education supports, they receive

(11:41):
health and early intervention supports, and making sure that families, parents, caregivers,
and young children get that support and make sure that
there aren't those gaps that we see in readiness for school.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, Georgia is another state where we do have a
lot of services for families with young children, but they
are very divided, and so you've got especially families with
a lot of needs. You have, you know, health services
in one area, you have childcare services limited as they
are in another area, another, you know, family support services,

(12:18):
and so thinking about what we sort of a multi
generational approach, you know, what do the parents need, what
do the families need? What do the children need so
that during those critical years of zero to five your
birth until they get into school, that their needs are met.
And so children can show up to school ready to
learn a kindergarten and that that really takes the whole

(12:38):
family and supports for everybody. And so what's a sort
of unified plan to make that easier for everybody? Right
to move us forward?

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Children now are, like you said, showing up to school
for kindergarten. They're ready to go. I mean they're starting
younger and younger and younger learning stuff.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Now, yeah, many children are. But the problem is many
children are not right and that creates and the you know,
they show up in kinder garden and we already see
these big gaps. We already see these sort of those
whiz and without and the school system is charged with
fixing all of that that took you know, five years
to develop. And so how can we support them much

(13:14):
earlier on? And there's evidence around you know, parents as
Children programs and things starting when kids are infants and
just born that really set up families and kids for
success that aren't necessarily really high costs. They just take
commitment and coordination.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
It's amazing with the kids just born and already he's
always learning things already.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, they pop out wanting to learn and like really curious.
And so how can we foster that?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
It was always before just walig is do whatever wels
kindergarten and start learning. But not anymore. Issue number four
quality teaching preparing for the deeper learning transition. What about
that one?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, you know it always goes It's always said, but
can never be said enough that a high qualities teacher
in every classroom is the number one thing you can
do to improve. But teaching, I think teachers will tell you,
especially since the pandemic, but just overall has changed so
much and really thinking about how students learn, how they
receive information, how to best keep them engage and so

(14:15):
a lot of successful systems are really shifting to more
of a student led learning environment, you know, inquiry and
all these other kinds of things. And that's a different
approach to just you know, teachers standing at the front
of the classroom and lecturing. Right, no one has ever
really learned well that way, you know, But that requires
retraining teachers about how to best engage their students, how

(14:37):
to best you know, a foster learning environment, So thinking
about how do we support teachers in this transition to
this deeper learning as opposed to what historically has always
been done. Poor teachers said, hey, here's your new way
to go. Good luck. Let us know how it goes,
and so be really thoughtful about the supports that they
need so they could be successful, so our kids could

(14:58):
be success.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
And I would add it's really important to think of
schools as a collaborative space. All too often it's we've
had this notion that teachers are kind of in like
these little many one room schoolhouses where they're leading instruction,
they're doing this work, they're providing feedback to students, but
they're not working collaboratively with their peers. And so the

(15:19):
idea is that we're trying to build greater resilience for
teachers by making sure that they're getting professional development from
each other and that they're getting their needs met as well.
We talk so much about student resilience coming out of
the pandemic, it's also important that teachers are banding together
and not getting burnt out by being together and sharing
the load of learning how to make this transition to

(15:41):
deeper learning.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
And importantly that teachers are actually part of this transition process.
Like they feel empowered and they feel engaged, and they
feel like they have some ownership and agency and how
this is going. And because they have, they're the experts,
like we should be asking them more how best to
deliver this lesson instead of telling them here's training to
do it this way. So it's very much a collaborative

(16:02):
vision that we have.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that teacher without teachers, now
you don't you have anything? You have probably need teachers
in schools in Georgia anyway, these teachers all the time, Oh.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Absolutely, and make it a welcoming profession right right, Like
they should want to be there, they should feel appreciated
the professionals that they are treated that way, and we
need to grow that contract teachers.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
The third issue student agency, the key to long term
success and well being.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, John, I think one thing that we did and
I'm glad we actually went backwards because it actually helps
us kind of clarify some points. And so we say
that teaching is like so fundamental and making this process
to student led learning. But one thing we also have
to do is that teachers are not just content experts.
They also can support learning and building mindsets for students
so they feel motivated and they feel that they can

(16:58):
actually learn. And I know a lot that sounds kind
of like amateur psychology, but really what it is is
that teachers are the ones that are cultivating the love
of learning, not just the content behind learning. And so
what's really exciting about this issue for the first time
is we're saying that when students own learning, they're able
to reimagine not just what they're going to do in

(17:19):
their future, but feel ownership and feel like, oh, my goodness,
I have the agency to kind of shape my path
instead of just saying like, oh, I guess when I'm
in eleventh grade, I'll figure out what I'm going.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
To do with my life.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Still be a longer runway for them to figure out
what they want to do with their life.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Right, Dan, Yeah, I would just agree and try to
cut down. We know that a lot of high school
dropouts happen not because the kids aren't smart, but because
they're bored and they don't see the relevance. They don't
feel it's engaging to them, it doesn't feel necessary to them.
So the earlier you can really cultivate that ownership and

(17:56):
it's something that they are interested in and they're driving
the longer we can hold on to them.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
And to a certain extent, it is kind of a
silent epidemic for the fact that we have a national
survey that we cite in the top ten, only about
fourteen or fifteen percent of students in high school actually
feel engaged in the coursework and feel like they're challenged
in the coursework. And so it is a problem that
we do need to address, and deeper learning is one
of the approaches that will solve that problem.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
I was like that, I think in school. Yeah, I
was like, I'm bored. I'm bored. And then you found
radio and then I find radio radio station.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
And you started showing up with excitement, right, Yeah, exactly.
It's the same for adults. If you have a job
that doesn't interest you, you're not going to be your
best person. If you go to a work environment that's
not fun for you, you're going to be late, you're
going to sleep in, you're going to be grumpy. Same
for kids. We just don't think about it that way.
We should.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah. Number two, student attendance the leading indicator of success.
You gotta get them in there, got to get HM attend.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I mean, if you're not there, that pretty much sums
it up today one of the things that has been
growing and it sounds silly just to talk about intendance
so vitally important because as we said, if you're not there,
you know, you're not learning. And what happened during the
pandemic is that a significant increase in the proportion of
students that were what we call chronically absent, which is
missing about fifteen days or more of the school year

(19:15):
for whatever reason, whether they be sick or they just
don't want to go right excuse versus unexcused absence, it
doesn't matter, significantly affects their long term outcomes. I mean
we talk about, you know, grade level reading is always
a big thing. That students who are chronically absent in
that K through three time frame significantly more likely not
to be reading on grade level by third grade. And

(19:38):
it's become such sort of it's not just in Georgia,
it's become such a national issue that we're seeing national
sort of bipartisan agreement and support about what to do.
And in a time where nobody agrees on anything, we've
got people on both sides of the spectrum and extremes
of the spectrum really coming together. See, we have got
to make sure that that students make it to school

(20:01):
and stay in school. And the issue with this is
that it's not just one thing. There's so many. It's
such a complicated factor, from the obvious things of health
and wellness right to things like transportation, to homelessness to frankly,
parent apathy for the younger kids, you know, the K
through three kids. I mean even I have a lot

(20:21):
of friends who are like, Oh, we're going to take
our spring break the next week because that's when it's
not as crowded, and what are they really going to miss?
Missing a week of first grade? Right? That's a pretty
common sentiment. And the thing is actually they do miss
a lot, and it's really something that we need to
get a handle on and figure out complex solution to
a complex problem.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
And I would add too that one thing that might
be surprising to you is is that many districts are
starting to figure out how to include student attendance among
their early warning indicators, and it might be missing as
few as two or three days in a nine week period,
and that triggers kind of an indicator where they reach
out to parents, they reach out to caregivers to make
sure that everything is going smoothly and that there aren't

(21:06):
underlying issues that would affect the student's success or well being.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
And the final issue, issue number one, not that it's
more important more than the others, is securing George's future.
Rediscovering the purpose of public education.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Right we think about public education as a community good
and really thinking about how do we engage the public
about it and why we meeting those of us who
are passionate supporters of public education, engaging all community members,
whether they have a child in school or not, and
to really understand why public education is so important, why

(21:43):
it affects everybody, and really building that public will to
supporting public education instead of a common narrative we've heard
over the past little while is really demonizing public education
and how can I get kids out of it? And
that doesn't seem like a sustainable solution for the overall
common good, and really thinking about from a community level,
you know, what can we agree upon are the important things,

(22:05):
like we want our graduates to know, like what do
we want from our public education system? How can we
get there again? More collaboratively, you know, more proactively and
taking a proactive stance around supporting public ed And.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
I would add from Data's point to that last year
we were talking about how at a community level, especially
just how divisive and polarized things are. We took it
more of a positive spind this year to focus on
the fact that there is a promise there is kind
of a social contract, if you will, where if people
are coming together as neighbors and as community members, there

(22:40):
are things that they can do where they can share
priorities and they can share goals. Even if that doesn't
mean they agree always on the final strategy, at least
there is some consensus there. And so what we're excited
about is that with that open and frank dialogue that
there might be eventually a situation where more community are

(23:00):
thinking about being more inclusive about how they talk about
public education, involving more people in the process. I know
that a lot of times parents and community members feel
like what's they don't know what's going on in a school,
and so it would be helpful even to have kind
of like listening tours where they say this is what
we're doing and being very transparent about that. So people

(23:21):
don't feel like anything's kind of hiding in the dark,
you know, and.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Sow how schools are seen as an asset of a community. Yeah,
and not just where we put kids, you know, when
parents at work. That's going from a working parent and
needed to put her kid somewhere. Yeah, but that they
have other assets as well, and really building that public
will and that public support. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Where is this available online?

Speaker 2 (23:43):
It is available on our website www dot gp ee
dot org. You can download copies for free, or if
you'd like one or two copies mailed to you, will
mail you a couple of hard copies for free. If
you want more than two, we just asked that you
pay for postage. Okay. We also have one page summaries
of each of these available at the same website gpe

(24:05):
dot org, and all of our contact information is.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
There as well, and they can contact you if they
have any questions about it.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I guess absolutely absolutely, I.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Know it's you look back. Do you ever look back
and see how you did previous years? How you if
you achieve these goals and things like that?

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Do you always we do, well, we always look back
and kind of see where we are. It takes stock
and the sort of a running joke that the perennial
issues really don't change the actual issues, like funding, Right,
We're always talking about funding, but the context of the
issue changes, and so, you know some of your funding.
For an example, for years and years and years, it
was oh, austerity cuts, we don't have enough money, what

(24:43):
do we do? And then the pandemic hit and we
had these federal relief funds. It's like, oh, we have
all this money, now what do we do? And now
it's like, oh, how do we invest our money? And
so the context and how we talk about the issues change,
but the fundamental issues of good teachers, good leaders, students,
support appropriate resources like those stay pretty I mean, you

(25:05):
know what it takes to make a great school, and
so we just sort of tweak at the details of
how we're going to go about doing it.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Thank you very much for being here today. I appreciate it.
It goes by fast, happy yea, and well we'll see
how we go with these. That's doctor Dana Rickman, who's
president and CEO, and Matt Smith, director of Policy and
Research for the Georgia Partnership for Excellence and Education. You
can find out more about them at gp ee dot org.
For questions your comments about today's program, you can email me,
John Clark at iHeartMedia dot com. Thanks for listening. I'll

(25:35):
talk to you nex week right here in your local
radio station on Georgia Focus