Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Georgia Focus. I'm John Clark on the Georgia
and Use Network. The Old Pickens County Jail is an
historic nineteen oh six Georgia marble building in Jasper that
was once a jail, and it's haunted but open for
tours this time of year. This two story brick marble
serves the county's third jail until nineteen eighty two. I
(00:27):
visited that jail where I met Heather Hartman of the
Pickens County Historical Society and the Southern bals Paranormal Society.
She gives tours of the jail, and I met Bill Cagle,
president of the Pickens County Historical Society. Let's see what
they had to say.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, Bill, first of all, we're here at Pickens County Jail.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
And I saw this online on Facebook and I thought
I got into business thing.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It is just walked downstairs from upstairs to jails upstairs.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Tell us about the jail. It was built in nineteen
o six. This is actually the third jail the Pittens County.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
The first two were behind the existing.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Courthouse, and the first one was a wood.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Jail that was built in einteenth Around eighteen fifty three
when the.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
County was first founded, and then a rock and wooden
jail was built to place that, and then in nineteen
in the early nineteen hundreds, the courts said, Pittens County,
this jail is not up to standards.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And there was a lot of health issues with it,
so that this jail was built in nineteen oh six.
It lasted. There was the county jail.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It was in August nineteen eighty two, so it hasn't
been that long ago. It was built where the jailer,
who in early days was the sheriff, he and his
family with the downstairs and the prison.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Where the selawats were upstairs and was divided between the
female and male sides, and.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
The jailer or the sheriff his wife would usually would
be born that would kind of run the office and cook.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
The meals born the inmates.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
The family would eat the same foods that the inmates
would eat, and the meals would be served and the
what they call the beanhold path passers here in the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
The inmates would come.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Down stairs and would get there get their plates and
also get from the end of the intake room. There
they would meet with their attorneys and want have. Of course,
you know the early nineteen hundreds, the inmates that have
meet civil rights.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
In the bedroom, there's a little peep hole there where
the sheriff could spile the prisoners and also listen to
what's going on with what to conversion with their attorneys about.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes, just there necessary.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
The prisoners were pretty open over there as far as
walking around inside as long as you're staying that that section. Yes,
even the front doors they had to make and get
out of the way or something.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I guess, well, yeah, the unless there was a lot
of didn't got to remember there wasn't that much crime
and couldn't send out. Of course, there had been some
kind of.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Heinous crimes over the years, over the decade the gym
was spending day in, day out. The biggest crimes you
would have would work domestic issues and public bruntness level
the moon shine. So normally there was only just maybe
two three or four inmates here and they would leave it.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Obviously that the.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Cell of gorm would be would be locked right, but
the steel goring a lot of time it would remain
open and the innymates they could go up and down
the stairs as as they needed and a lot of
times if the family your friend wanted to come talk
to him, they talked to him through the you know,
the jail, and they learned the cell door.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And some of them it wasn't, you know, a high.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Security area because again they didn't have say a heinous
murderer or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Generalista and they didn't have those from the time time.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
But they would be locked in the bullpen upstairs and
they couldn't leave.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And you told me about somebody told you about having
a lot of drunks and have a big celebration in town.
They had a lot of drunks. Had to get up
tell that story again. U.
Speaker 7 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
My uncle, my uncle Joe.
Speaker 8 (04:41):
He was a debuty back in and he was making
the early twenties, back in the mid mid seventies, and
he was a deadly for a couple of years. And
back in those days up until I guess in the
early eighties, downtown Jash on the fourth July I would.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Have the biggest of jaw celebration and all of North Georgia.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
People would come from people north Alabamatons City in western North.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Carolina and Oliver, North Georgia to Jasper for big Fourth
Jaw celebration, and that would be and he.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Didn't get in throughout the day. They asked me, there
would be over ten thousand people.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
That I am you know a lot of people, especially
back years ago, and back then Pete's County was a
dry county.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
But the biggest crime had every day in day was
a bootlegging and public drunkeness won't have it.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
So there would obviously be a lot of intoxicated people,
you know, on main street, and they would get the
rest of the public drunkeness model remembers, he said, he
remembered one course of July there was twenty thinks of
twenty three people men.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Are rested for public drunkeness. And so again got a
member of that. There was no air conditioned upstairs other
than ok but one of besodes.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Can you imagine the fourth of July, how hot it
isn't towards on July having twenty some odd.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Drunk men up there, that would be a really pleasant experience. Yeah,
that in that in that area, twenty three men with
a lot of people, a lot of a lot of people. Well,
let's talk about the paranormal situation.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
He tell me, tell me the situation you are with,
what's what's your predial beet Somal society. And you come
here regularly though, yes, and another place is too, but
mainly right here, and.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Tell us about what you've heard, we've seen you do it.
You're doing to us, you're doing it to tonight. Yes, yes,
you do too. You're doing to us when we're doing
it through October.
Speaker 7 (06:42):
We'll meet here on Fridays and Saturdays in October. And
doesn't mean that evens will bars of life.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So you've got to come to this soak. This is
a great jail. It's a great place to be be
here pet this stand, So tell me what have you
seen it? Have you've seen anything? It just felt anything.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
Well, we've actually seen a few things, like taking pictures
at the buildings and things like that, and then Lugger
would be looking back at my pictures and we'll see
like an old body standing there.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
In the picture. And I didn't notice it.
Speaker 7 (07:16):
A person one of my members told me about it
because we were just up here cleaning and I wasn't
thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
There was a storm rolling.
Speaker 7 (07:22):
In and I just wanted to take a beautiful picture
of the jail, and then I later saw the whole
figure standing in front of the doorway and you could
see his.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Whole outline of his body and everything in that picture. Wow. Now,
what do you you said, something happened today? Yes, the
day got here. Sometimes I was upstairs.
Speaker 7 (07:44):
I normally like to open and I like to clean
up a little bit because it's the old building and
he likes to the paint flags off the walls. So
I was walking up the stairs and I stepped off
of the stairs and there was like two steps behind me,
and I turned to round that There was nobody there,
of course, and it feels kind of uneasy, like you
(08:05):
could feel the presence of men up there.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Of course, it had been a mainly men's jailhouse, and.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
I was also over on the men's side, and from
the women's side, I heard like a clanking of the
bar or something like that, and I called out, and
nobody was there. So it definitely felt like somebody was
up there. And there was another instance. I cleaned the
jail every couple of months, and I was up here
in June, and from there that was with me was like,
(08:36):
they feels like a sauna over here. I said, yeah,
it's really hot up here. And I have an act
that I like pigs on the phone and it said hot.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I said, yeah, it's hot.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
Well, he was over at new men's side, and then
I was over towards the middle of the women's side,
and then from the other part of the women's side,
I heard a man playing today and say, well, why
not to turn the airline? And we were here by ourselves,
and I was like, did you just say time of
air on? And said, why would I say that? And
so for there was a thing that said turned to
air on? He said I heard it too.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
And there was enough moody anywhere around. And we didn't
have anyone those opens, so couldn't fum from outside or
anything like that.
Speaker 7 (09:14):
And we had it kind of closed up that nobody
knew that we were in here cleaning or nothing, so
they didn't start nothing. So there was nobody else in
the building group.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Now what are you doing on the tool? People come
to the tool, you take them up shaves if you
can show around. But we're gonna tell them what Tess happened. Well,
we would like to do the model, the history in detail,
and then would.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
Like to tell them the instances wherever we would have
every dance, because whatever we would get every dance.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We'd like to go fact.
Speaker 7 (09:43):
Check it and we have people look it up online
and all of that, and that way we can put
a story with what happened to was.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We've had water incidents where.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
We'll have.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
Stories that happened and we didn't know about the real
story until we later on looked up in the history
boats are we looked at up online and all of
that and found the actual evidence that went with it.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And you should you bring in their quarters or anything
you can have your own.
Speaker 7 (10:15):
Yes, we have all of our equipment that you're rocking
to ring your own equipment that you get mans along
with all the equipment you can use whatever we have.
We have recorders, We've got thousand dollars, we have the
spirit walls. We've got cat balls, which a little lot
of most of them you take your balls and all
of those are really good about getting elegance, and each
of them were too.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Do you find anything down here? We're got downstairs in
the looking course.
Speaker 7 (10:39):
We've actually in the bedroom factors there is a black
dress and the earth.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
The dress was est and she.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Is one of the frequent ones that were communicated because
she was very proud of that dress and she likes
she communicated people a lot of times a thousand dollars
and the cat balls and then a lot of reaction
if you he's the only kind of closer to the dress.
And also in the kitchen, we've talked to another female
when we have done a spirit.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Oo sessions or something like that.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
In the kitchen, they didn't talk to one of the
females that have worked previously.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Wow, do you know who she is? The female?
Speaker 7 (11:18):
She was one of the warden's wife and we'd like
to call her the lady of the house. And there's
just a lot of women that were very proud to
be a part of the house. But a lot of
times they didn't mind to talk about their husband's work,
like like I don't really want communicate about what the
warden knew and things like that, that it was his business.
(11:40):
Momus was taking care of the house and kids and
things like that, or having their social status and just
making amand for themselves.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
They didn't really care about what her husbands were doing them.
Yeah you should. There was a woman a lady of
the night. It was a bossol close by.
Speaker 9 (11:58):
Yes, and she was she lived here, which I communicating
with you too well, I find the red sale will
communicate with a spirit that is a female that we
will even.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Come from across the road. Across the road.
Speaker 7 (12:11):
But I'm not sure if she was at the right
the house here or if she just comes from across
the road. But she doesn't really like women men, and
that's a particular sale to tend to scratch them and
make it feel really uneasy. But she does like to
communicate with the men if they're using the spirit walks
and they were there to.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Talk to them on until.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
Make them feel like there's kind of somebody touching that
arm or something like that. But she really likes to
talk in that y for sale.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Why do you think they picked this place? I think
it comes from you. I mean, I know some are
lived to some way when they come back to that well,
it's like a big part of the history.
Speaker 7 (12:56):
And if it's somewhere that they spent a lot of
their life and this local area, that it's somewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
That they can communicate because they know that we're here
pretty regular. And we also have a lot of.
Speaker 7 (13:08):
Native Americans that are tied in this area that we
have communicated with, and we have like a lot of
spirits that will just that are tied to the area
of the land, and it just sees it as an
opportunity to be able to communicate. And a lot of
times we will also have people that take the tour.
The guests will take the tour and spirits will be
(13:30):
connected to them and come to the jail with themtains
just to be able to communicate because they can't.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Any other way. Okay, Okay, Bill Powell's it was. It
was just it was nineteen eighty two or the close.
Was it empty at that point for a while? Well, no,
I mean it was.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
It was operating until the jail that replaced this with
Jail number four was completed.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
As soon as it was completed and graded do that's
when the closes this down, okay. And so it just
happened to be that it was August of nineteen eightys. Okay,
So it wasn't it wasn't ever abandoned any hole.
Speaker 10 (14:09):
Well, now the technically the county still owns it, but
the back then it was known as the Marble Valley
Friends Historical Okay Society or Marble Ballot Historical Side.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
And we changed it to Pickett's County a few years
ago because there was another historical root down to take
called the marble vaalot friends, A lot of people call
it the same sort of just to differentiate.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Let's reason the chance to name.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
But now that the back then the Model Valley Historical
Site became the I guess set custodian of the building itself,
and they turned it into you know.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
A museum so to speak, and opened up for tours.
You won't have you when did somebody first think, wow,
some strangers going it something weird? You know, that's a
really good question.
Speaker 8 (15:01):
John, You know, I know that.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I remember before I got.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Involved in this little safe that's been seven years now,
there was a paranormal group. I remember reading about this
in the paper that did a private investigation and just
third group year spent the weekend or night whatever year
back probably ten twelve years ago. And I don't know
(15:29):
why started it, how the word started getting out. And
then shortly after we cleaned.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Out the bound you know, the jail.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It had become somewhat of a dumping ground over years
because it's not a county museum here though, and there
was a lot of good stuff here, but it was
it didn't belong in jail, and it was so condensed
and it was just it was I mean, you could
hold a movie. So we still a lot of time
cleaned out, and shortly after we got it cleaned out,
(16:03):
turned it back into the jail and living quarters downstairs
and the prison the block upstairs.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Just you know, I guess it just meant Bee's faith.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
It would have it that paranormal group started to just
randomly contacts now because about you know, there's throughout the
state and all the southeast there's all kinds of his
sort of.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Jails that had done paranormal investigation. So I guess they
just said, well, here's one of Pitton's county, let's see
what see what they say. And we started allowing it,
and it's just grown city ever since, and they have
a lot of people coming. Don't do it coming apparently?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Oh yeah visit?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Oh absolutely yeah, we if we if we could get
more in.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Thank goodness for Heather that she's one of our volunteers
that you opened.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Up how many saturdays a month? Yeah, I've been here
in the staburday this month, and I was here every
Saturday in June.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Okay, So she's here on a frequent basis, and we've
got other volunteers that will open up like say on
a Thursday.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Or Friday or Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
So we try to keep it up open most weekends
because we do have a lot more visitors coming through
Picklan's County now and because we've got a lot more
residents that's moved here in the last we'll stay less
than twenty years.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
There's now more new resident that's living here than there
are native presence lot itself, So.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
We've got a lot more visitors and get a lot
more people with the revitalization of downtown dafter last several years.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
With the restaurants, you get a lot of people come
here to eat and you know they take.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
A walk in and just come down here to all
of their historic jail and the old cabin next door.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah, the cabbe next year too. That's a cheroity cabin.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
It's still two hundred years ago next year mornings. So
that's really the older structure of the Pickton County.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And now that was moved here right, Yes, yes, you
were talking about that. That's had some paranormal stuff to
just chanel with that house.
Speaker 7 (18:11):
Yeah, so a lot of people will be connected to
like the trailer tears and been Cherokee Kevin, and a
lot of times we were different and putting it in there,
and we couldn't really understand what it was saying. So
I started writing it down and come to find out
it was Cherokee language, so I started.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Translating it and reading what it was saying.
Speaker 7 (18:34):
And there was a lot of different Native Americans that
were telling us about their love story or how they
were separating from their family.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And there was also a little girl that.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
Was a Native American and she told us about how
she was on the trailer tears and she was separated
from her family, and she had actually gotten ran over
by a whiteman, of course, and.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
That's how she had passed away.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
And we have a thing that we'd like to call
Plasmo Hall that's got all this like energy to it.
And when I was telling the story about the little girl,
you could see the Flashmo Hall and it changed into
a horse in the middle of it. It looked like
there was a horse in it. And I actually had
videos with that on my Facebook page.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And we also.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
Communicate a lot with the mister Stephen Kirby in there,
but he's one that doesn't really lie for people to
be in his cabbage much because you live or a
friendly person for what we gathered, and he didn't like
for people to learn how he became the owner of
the cabinry to landwatery and things like that. So he
didn't like for people he noticed. He would get out
(19:44):
of my house and whatever he tells us to get
out and respect him. And when we get out of
that area and that way, it doesn't make him angry.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Now, when did you first start wanted to come here?
Speaker 7 (19:56):
Well, a few years ago one of our old members
had actually justus sing over and out stay here one
of the investigations, and that's what started me here.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And then we found out that another group had.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
Been doing hosting tours here and I was like, well,
maybe they'll let us host tours there.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
So that's what we started doing. And it's also a
way to help.
Speaker 7 (20:17):
Raise money for the Historical Society, because we're always always
going to the Historical Society, and at least half of
that I always goes through the Historical Society. And it
raids him a good good of money to help replace
the things that need to be replacing in historical society.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
And it's a great way that we can contribute to
giving me back, and I also started I seen online
where they I needed somebody to come to jail. I
was like, well, I great, volunteer to do it.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
I said, We'll definitely start doing it, so that we
started leaving the jail and take the pride in the
chalty and just kind of help stay open.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
And then it started asking me to host the.
Speaker 7 (20:57):
Tours, and I was like, I would love to keep
the place open on Saturdays and things like that.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
When we do so, it's just a way to not
can help you back to the community. So us again
when it's open from down till the end of the
year and so forth, when do we go to it.
Speaker 7 (21:13):
We will be here tonight for one of our Perilal
furs from the seventh to nine, and then in the
morning I'll be open for.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
An historical society I'll hope the tent two.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
And then I'll be here every Saturday the rest of
the month, and then the evenings during the.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
October on Fridays and Saturdays.
Speaker 7 (21:33):
And we'll be here for the night fours from seven
to nine and then nine thirty through eleven and thirty
we'll be hosting those tours.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
So come and see something. I don't see anything yet.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Bill, we were talking about this earlier that we don't
see anything hither does We don't And I don't see
anything or hear anything.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I believe in it. Nothing's happened to me there. But
so come and see if if you see something. What
else does Chickens kind of have on his circle society
working up well.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
About four to five times a year, usually starting in
March through March April May. We'll take June July, and
we'll start up in either August Septender. We have history talks.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
We talked about local mainly local.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
History or things that have gone on with that's going
on or things that had happened years ago with somebody
that does some research.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
A good friend of ours from Jerry and Flincham who's done.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
A lot of research on the Civil War in North Georgia,
Pickens County and the surrounding counties here. He's given our
final talk of the year on the Revolutionary War that
was fought in the battles that were fought in Georgia.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Okay, So, and.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
He's also teaches, he's an adjunct professor or a history
teacher at Kingsas State.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
So he's were talking about the Revolutionary War in Georgia.
You always got something going on in Piage County. I
always got something going on.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
And of course, you know what we're famous for is
what we're known for is Marvel, right, Georgia Marble. You know,
Lincoln Memorial and most of the buildings of Washington had
been sent to day George Marble, Arlington Cemetery.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Most that's Georgia Marble. So that's what we're we're known for.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
And as head of us talking about wonder reason why
I think there was a lot of that timpy here
is that what's main stream now was a season where
the railroad, the railroad line is now okay, that ran
parallel with the Belly Federal Road, which was the nation's
first super highway if you would, you know two hundred
(23:50):
years ago, which that was for a lot of development
for gold ROAs over in you know, belong to Hambership
County on that paril tiers. So this was the heart
of the charity connection two hundred years ago. So I
think that's another reason why there's a lot of activity
in the cabin Originally was located a couple of miles
(24:13):
just south of town along the Federal right, So I
think that's where you see a lot of activity there.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
That makes plain, that makes plain while we were in
the hunted him.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, you know, you know, you we don't know who's
came and went and passed through here and went up
there and stayed up there or whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
You know, who does.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, because during the Civil War the Federal Road was
used as a passage you rode.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
For both of the Union n Federal troops.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
So it was you know, even though there were no
battles here, there was a lot of skirmishes and there
was a lot of traffic going.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
You know, to and front. So it's a fascinating story
and I've got I came in here to see it,
and I think you'll show me. So I appreciate John. Basically,
we looked at it and we looked into jail, but
we didn't see anything. But maybe next summer come up,
maybe one time I'll say something.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Definitely, welcome to any of our tours, though it's not
Tom definitely brings.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Up the activity.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
That's Heather Hartman of the Pickens County Historical Society and
Southern Bell's Paranormal Society, and Bill Cagle, president of the
Pickens County Historical Society. You can visit them on Facebook
either Pickens County Jail or Pickens County at the Southern
Bell's Paranormal Society on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram at SBPs
twenty thirteen. If you have questions or comments on today's program,
you can email me, John Clark at Georgianewsnetwork dot com.
(25:33):
Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you next week right
here in your local radio station on Georgia Focus
Welcome to Georgia Focus. I'm John Clark on the Georgia
and Use Network. The Old Pickens County Jail is an
historic nineteen oh six Georgia marble building in Jasper that
was once a jail, and it's haunted but open for
tours this time of year. This two story brick marble
serves the county's third jail until nineteen eighty two. I
(00:27):
visited that jail where I met Heather Hartman of the
Pickens County Historical Society and the Southern bals Paranormal Society.
She gives tours of the jail, and I met Bill Cagle,
president of the Pickens County Historical Society. Let's see what
they had to say.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, Bill, first of all, we're here at Pickens County Jail.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
And I saw this online on Facebook and I thought
I got into business thing.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It is just walked downstairs from upstairs to jails upstairs.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Tell us about the jail. It was built in nineteen
o six. This is actually the third jail the Pittens County.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
The first two were behind the existing.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Courthouse, and the first one was a wood.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Jail that was built in einteenth Around eighteen fifty three
when the.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
County was first founded, and then a rock and wooden
jail was built to place that, and then in nineteen
in the early nineteen hundreds, the courts said, Pittens County,
this jail is not up to standards.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And there was a lot of health issues with it,
so that this jail was built in nineteen oh six.
It lasted. There was the county jail.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It was in August nineteen eighty two, so it hasn't
been that long ago. It was built where the jailer,
who in early days was the sheriff, he and his
family with the downstairs and the prison.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Where the selawats were upstairs and was divided between the
female and male sides, and.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
The jailer or the sheriff his wife would usually would
be born that would kind of run the office and cook.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
The meals born the inmates.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
The family would eat the same foods that the inmates
would eat, and the meals would be served and the
what they call the beanhold path passers here in the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
The inmates would come.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Down stairs and would get there get their plates and
also get from the end of the intake room. There
they would meet with their attorneys and want have. Of course,
you know the early nineteen hundreds, the inmates that have
meet civil rights.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
In the bedroom, there's a little peep hole there where
the sheriff could spile the prisoners and also listen to
what's going on with what to conversion with their attorneys about.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes, just there necessary.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
The prisoners were pretty open over there as far as
walking around inside as long as you're staying that that section. Yes,
even the front doors they had to make and get
out of the way or something.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I guess, well, yeah, the unless there was a lot
of didn't got to remember there wasn't that much crime
and couldn't send out. Of course, there had been some
kind of.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Heinous crimes over the years, over the decade the gym
was spending day in, day out. The biggest crimes you
would have would work domestic issues and public bruntness level
the moon shine. So normally there was only just maybe
two three or four inmates here and they would leave it.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Obviously that the.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Cell of gorm would be would be locked right, but
the steel goring a lot of time it would remain
open and the innymates they could go up and down
the stairs as as they needed and a lot of
times if the family your friend wanted to come talk
to him, they talked to him through the you know,
the jail, and they learned the cell door.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And some of them it wasn't, you know, a high.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Security area because again they didn't have say a heinous
murderer or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Generalista and they didn't have those from the time time.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
But they would be locked in the bullpen upstairs and
they couldn't leave.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And you told me about somebody told you about having
a lot of drunks and have a big celebration in town.
They had a lot of drunks. Had to get up
tell that story again. U.
Speaker 7 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
My uncle, my uncle Joe.
Speaker 8 (04:41):
He was a debuty back in and he was making
the early twenties, back in the mid mid seventies, and
he was a deadly for a couple of years. And
back in those days up until I guess in the
early eighties, downtown Jash on the fourth July I would.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Have the biggest of jaw celebration and all of North Georgia.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
People would come from people north Alabamatons City in western North.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Carolina and Oliver, North Georgia to Jasper for big Fourth
Jaw celebration, and that would be and he.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Didn't get in throughout the day. They asked me, there
would be over ten thousand people.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
That I am you know a lot of people, especially
back years ago, and back then Pete's County was a
dry county.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
But the biggest crime had every day in day was
a bootlegging and public drunkeness won't have it.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
So there would obviously be a lot of intoxicated people,
you know, on main street, and they would get the
rest of the public drunkeness model remembers, he said, he
remembered one course of July there was twenty thinks of
twenty three people men.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Are rested for public drunkeness. And so again got a
member of that. There was no air conditioned upstairs other
than ok but one of besodes.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Can you imagine the fourth of July, how hot it
isn't towards on July having twenty some odd.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Drunk men up there, that would be a really pleasant experience. Yeah,
that in that in that area, twenty three men with
a lot of people, a lot of a lot of people. Well,
let's talk about the paranormal situation.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
He tell me, tell me the situation you are with,
what's what's your predial beet Somal society. And you come
here regularly though, yes, and another place is too, but
mainly right here, and.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Tell us about what you've heard, we've seen you do it.
You're doing to us, you're doing it to tonight. Yes, yes,
you do too. You're doing to us when we're doing
it through October.
Speaker 7 (06:42):
We'll meet here on Fridays and Saturdays in October. And
doesn't mean that evens will bars of life.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So you've got to come to this soak. This is
a great jail. It's a great place to be be
here pet this stand, So tell me what have you
seen it? Have you've seen anything? It just felt anything.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
Well, we've actually seen a few things, like taking pictures
at the buildings and things like that, and then Lugger
would be looking back at my pictures and we'll see
like an old body standing there.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
In the picture. And I didn't notice it.
Speaker 7 (07:16):
A person one of my members told me about it
because we were just up here cleaning and I wasn't
thinking about it.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
There was a storm rolling.
Speaker 7 (07:22):
In and I just wanted to take a beautiful picture
of the jail, and then I later saw the whole
figure standing in front of the doorway and you could
see his.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Whole outline of his body and everything in that picture. Wow. Now,
what do you you said, something happened today? Yes, the
day got here. Sometimes I was upstairs.
Speaker 7 (07:44):
I normally like to open and I like to clean
up a little bit because it's the old building and
he likes to the paint flags off the walls. So
I was walking up the stairs and I stepped off
of the stairs and there was like two steps behind me,
and I turned to round that There was nobody there,
of course, and it feels kind of uneasy, like you
(08:05):
could feel the presence of men up there.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Of course, it had been a mainly men's jailhouse, and.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
I was also over on the men's side, and from
the women's side, I heard like a clanking of the
bar or something like that, and I called out, and
nobody was there. So it definitely felt like somebody was
up there. And there was another instance. I cleaned the
jail every couple of months, and I was up here
in June, and from there that was with me was like,
(08:36):
they feels like a sauna over here. I said, yeah,
it's really hot up here. And I have an act
that I like pigs on the phone and it said hot.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I said, yeah, it's hot.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
Well, he was over at new men's side, and then
I was over towards the middle of the women's side,
and then from the other part of the women's side,
I heard a man playing today and say, well, why
not to turn the airline? And we were here by ourselves,
and I was like, did you just say time of
air on? And said, why would I say that? And
so for there was a thing that said turned to
air on? He said I heard it too.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
And there was enough moody anywhere around. And we didn't
have anyone those opens, so couldn't fum from outside or
anything like that.
Speaker 7 (09:14):
And we had it kind of closed up that nobody
knew that we were in here cleaning or nothing, so
they didn't start nothing. So there was nobody else in
the building group.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Now what are you doing on the tool? People come
to the tool, you take them up shaves if you
can show around. But we're gonna tell them what Tess happened. Well,
we would like to do the model, the history in detail,
and then would.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
Like to tell them the instances wherever we would have
every dance, because whatever we would get every dance.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We'd like to go fact.
Speaker 7 (09:43):
Check it and we have people look it up online
and all of that, and that way we can put
a story with what happened to was.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We've had water incidents where.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
We'll have.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
Stories that happened and we didn't know about the real
story until we later on looked up in the history
boats are we looked at up online and all of
that and found the actual evidence that went with it.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And you should you bring in their quarters or anything
you can have your own.
Speaker 7 (10:15):
Yes, we have all of our equipment that you're rocking
to ring your own equipment that you get mans along
with all the equipment you can use whatever we have.
We have recorders, We've got thousand dollars, we have the
spirit walls. We've got cat balls, which a little lot
of most of them you take your balls and all
of those are really good about getting elegance, and each
of them were too.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Do you find anything down here? We're got downstairs in
the looking course.
Speaker 7 (10:39):
We've actually in the bedroom factors there is a black
dress and the earth.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
The dress was est and she.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Is one of the frequent ones that were communicated because
she was very proud of that dress and she likes
she communicated people a lot of times a thousand dollars
and the cat balls and then a lot of reaction
if you he's the only kind of closer to the dress.
And also in the kitchen, we've talked to another female
when we have done a spirit.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Oo sessions or something like that.
Speaker 7 (11:11):
In the kitchen, they didn't talk to one of the
females that have worked previously.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Wow, do you know who she is? The female?
Speaker 7 (11:18):
She was one of the warden's wife and we'd like
to call her the lady of the house. And there's
just a lot of women that were very proud to
be a part of the house. But a lot of
times they didn't mind to talk about their husband's work,
like like I don't really want communicate about what the
warden knew and things like that, that it was his business.
(11:40):
Momus was taking care of the house and kids and
things like that, or having their social status and just
making amand for themselves.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
They didn't really care about what her husbands were doing them.
Yeah you should. There was a woman a lady of
the night. It was a bossol close by.
Speaker 9 (11:58):
Yes, and she was she lived here, which I communicating
with you too well, I find the red sale will
communicate with a spirit that is a female that we
will even.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Come from across the road. Across the road.
Speaker 7 (12:11):
But I'm not sure if she was at the right
the house here or if she just comes from across
the road. But she doesn't really like women men, and
that's a particular sale to tend to scratch them and
make it feel really uneasy. But she does like to
communicate with the men if they're using the spirit walks
and they were there to.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Talk to them on until.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
Make them feel like there's kind of somebody touching that
arm or something like that. But she really likes to
talk in that y for sale.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Why do you think they picked this place? I think
it comes from you. I mean, I know some are
lived to some way when they come back to that well,
it's like a big part of the history.
Speaker 7 (12:56):
And if it's somewhere that they spent a lot of
their life and this local area, that it's somewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
That they can communicate because they know that we're here
pretty regular. And we also have a lot of.
Speaker 7 (13:08):
Native Americans that are tied in this area that we
have communicated with, and we have like a lot of
spirits that will just that are tied to the area
of the land, and it just sees it as an
opportunity to be able to communicate. And a lot of
times we will also have people that take the tour.
The guests will take the tour and spirits will be
(13:30):
connected to them and come to the jail with themtains
just to be able to communicate because they can't.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Any other way. Okay, Okay, Bill Powell's it was. It
was just it was nineteen eighty two or the close.
Was it empty at that point for a while? Well, no,
I mean it was.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
It was operating until the jail that replaced this with
Jail number four was completed.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
As soon as it was completed and graded do that's
when the closes this down, okay. And so it just
happened to be that it was August of nineteen eightys. Okay,
So it wasn't it wasn't ever abandoned any hole.
Speaker 10 (14:09):
Well, now the technically the county still owns it, but
the back then it was known as the Marble Valley
Friends Historical Okay Society or Marble Ballot Historical Side.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
And we changed it to Pickett's County a few years
ago because there was another historical root down to take
called the marble vaalot friends, A lot of people call
it the same sort of just to differentiate.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Let's reason the chance to name.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
But now that the back then the Model Valley Historical
Site became the I guess set custodian of the building itself,
and they turned it into you know.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
A museum so to speak, and opened up for tours.
You won't have you when did somebody first think, wow,
some strangers going it something weird? You know, that's a
really good question.
Speaker 8 (15:01):
John, You know, I know that.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I remember before I got.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Involved in this little safe that's been seven years now,
there was a paranormal group. I remember reading about this
in the paper that did a private investigation and just
third group year spent the weekend or night whatever year
back probably ten twelve years ago. And I don't know
(15:29):
why started it, how the word started getting out. And
then shortly after we cleaned.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Out the bound you know, the jail.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
It had become somewhat of a dumping ground over years
because it's not a county museum here though, and there
was a lot of good stuff here, but it was
it didn't belong in jail, and it was so condensed
and it was just it was I mean, you could
hold a movie. So we still a lot of time
cleaned out, and shortly after we got it cleaned out,
(16:03):
turned it back into the jail and living quarters downstairs
and the prison the block upstairs.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Just you know, I guess it just meant Bee's faith.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
It would have it that paranormal group started to just
randomly contacts now because about you know, there's throughout the
state and all the southeast there's all kinds of his
sort of.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Jails that had done paranormal investigation. So I guess they
just said, well, here's one of Pitton's county, let's see
what see what they say. And we started allowing it,
and it's just grown city ever since, and they have
a lot of people coming. Don't do it coming apparently?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Oh yeah visit?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Oh absolutely yeah, we if we if we could get
more in.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Thank goodness for Heather that she's one of our volunteers
that you opened.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Up how many saturdays a month? Yeah, I've been here
in the staburday this month, and I was here every
Saturday in June.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Okay, So she's here on a frequent basis, and we've
got other volunteers that will open up like say on
a Thursday.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Or Friday or Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
So we try to keep it up open most weekends
because we do have a lot more visitors coming through
Picklan's County now and because we've got a lot more
residents that's moved here in the last we'll stay less
than twenty years.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
There's now more new resident that's living here than there
are native presence lot itself, So.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
We've got a lot more visitors and get a lot
more people with the revitalization of downtown dafter last several years.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
With the restaurants, you get a lot of people come
here to eat and you know they take.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
A walk in and just come down here to all
of their historic jail and the old cabin next door.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah, the cabbe next year too. That's a cheroity cabin.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
It's still two hundred years ago next year mornings. So
that's really the older structure of the Pickton County.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
And now that was moved here right, Yes, yes, you
were talking about that. That's had some paranormal stuff to
just chanel with that house.
Speaker 7 (18:11):
Yeah, so a lot of people will be connected to
like the trailer tears and been Cherokee Kevin, and a
lot of times we were different and putting it in there,
and we couldn't really understand what it was saying. So
I started writing it down and come to find out
it was Cherokee language, so I started.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Translating it and reading what it was saying.
Speaker 7 (18:34):
And there was a lot of different Native Americans that
were telling us about their love story or how they
were separating from their family.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And there was also a little girl that.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
Was a Native American and she told us about how
she was on the trailer tears and she was separated
from her family, and she had actually gotten ran over
by a whiteman, of course, and.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
That's how she had passed away.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
And we have a thing that we'd like to call
Plasmo Hall that's got all this like energy to it.
And when I was telling the story about the little girl,
you could see the Flashmo Hall and it changed into
a horse in the middle of it. It looked like
there was a horse in it. And I actually had
videos with that on my Facebook page.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And we also.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
Communicate a lot with the mister Stephen Kirby in there,
but he's one that doesn't really lie for people to
be in his cabbage much because you live or a
friendly person for what we gathered, and he didn't like
for people to learn how he became the owner of
the cabinry to landwatery and things like that. So he
didn't like for people he noticed. He would get out
(19:44):
of my house and whatever he tells us to get
out and respect him. And when we get out of
that area and that way, it doesn't make him angry.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Now, when did you first start wanted to come here?
Speaker 7 (19:56):
Well, a few years ago one of our old members
had actually justus sing over and out stay here one
of the investigations, and that's what started me here.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And then we found out that another group had.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
Been doing hosting tours here and I was like, well,
maybe they'll let us host tours there.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
So that's what we started doing. And it's also a
way to help.
Speaker 7 (20:17):
Raise money for the Historical Society, because we're always always
going to the Historical Society, and at least half of
that I always goes through the Historical Society. And it
raids him a good good of money to help replace
the things that need to be replacing in historical society.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
And it's a great way that we can contribute to
giving me back, and I also started I seen online
where they I needed somebody to come to jail. I
was like, well, I great, volunteer to do it.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
I said, We'll definitely start doing it, so that we
started leaving the jail and take the pride in the
chalty and just kind of help stay open.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
And then it started asking me to host the.
Speaker 7 (20:57):
Tours, and I was like, I would love to keep
the place open on Saturdays and things like that.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
When we do so, it's just a way to not
can help you back to the community. So us again
when it's open from down till the end of the
year and so forth, when do we go to it.
Speaker 7 (21:13):
We will be here tonight for one of our Perilal
furs from the seventh to nine, and then in the
morning I'll be open for.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
An historical society I'll hope the tent two.
Speaker 7 (21:24):
And then I'll be here every Saturday the rest of
the month, and then the evenings during the.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
October on Fridays and Saturdays.
Speaker 7 (21:33):
And we'll be here for the night fours from seven
to nine and then nine thirty through eleven and thirty
we'll be hosting those tours.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
So come and see something. I don't see anything yet.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Bill, we were talking about this earlier that we don't
see anything hither does We don't And I don't see
anything or hear anything.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I believe in it. Nothing's happened to me there. But
so come and see if if you see something. What
else does Chickens kind of have on his circle society
working up well.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
About four to five times a year, usually starting in
March through March April May. We'll take June July, and
we'll start up in either August Septender. We have history talks.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
We talked about local mainly local.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
History or things that have gone on with that's going
on or things that had happened years ago with somebody
that does some research.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
A good friend of ours from Jerry and Flincham who's done.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
A lot of research on the Civil War in North Georgia,
Pickens County and the surrounding counties here. He's given our
final talk of the year on the Revolutionary War that
was fought in the battles that were fought in Georgia.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Okay, So, and.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
He's also teaches, he's an adjunct professor or a history
teacher at Kingsas State.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
So he's were talking about the Revolutionary War in Georgia.
You always got something going on in Piage County. I
always got something going on.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
And of course, you know what we're famous for is
what we're known for is Marvel, right, Georgia Marble. You know,
Lincoln Memorial and most of the buildings of Washington had
been sent to day George Marble, Arlington Cemetery.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Most that's Georgia Marble. So that's what we're we're known for.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
And as head of us talking about wonder reason why
I think there was a lot of that timpy here
is that what's main stream now was a season where
the railroad, the railroad line is now okay, that ran
parallel with the Belly Federal Road, which was the nation's
first super highway if you would, you know two hundred
(23:50):
years ago, which that was for a lot of development
for gold ROAs over in you know, belong to Hambership
County on that paril tiers. So this was the heart
of the charity connection two hundred years ago. So I
think that's another reason why there's a lot of activity
in the cabin Originally was located a couple of miles
(24:13):
just south of town along the Federal right, So I
think that's where you see a lot of activity there.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
That makes plain, that makes plain while we were in
the hunted him.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, you know, you know, you we don't know who's
came and went and passed through here and went up
there and stayed up there or whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
You know, who does.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, because during the Civil War the Federal Road was
used as a passage you rode.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
For both of the Union n Federal troops.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
So it was you know, even though there were no
battles here, there was a lot of skirmishes and there
was a lot of traffic going.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
You know, to and front. So it's a fascinating story
and I've got I came in here to see it,
and I think you'll show me. So I appreciate John. Basically,
we looked at it and we looked into jail, but
we didn't see anything. But maybe next summer come up,
maybe one time I'll say something.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Definitely, welcome to any of our tours, though it's not
Tom definitely brings.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Up the activity.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
That's Heather Hartman of the Pickens County Historical Society and
Southern Bell's Paranormal Society, and Bill Cagle, president of the
Pickens County Historical Society. You can visit them on Facebook
either Pickens County Jail or Pickens County at the Southern
Bell's Paranormal Society on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram at SBPs
twenty thirteen. If you have questions or comments on today's program,
you can email me, John Clark at Georgianewsnetwork dot com.
(25:33):
Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you next week right
here in your local radio station on Georgia Focus
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!