Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Tennessee Matters on the Tennessee Radio Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to Tennessee Matters. I'm John Clark and the Tennessee
Radio Network. What really happened to Pauline Mullins, the wife
of Sheriff Buford Pusser of Walking Tall Fame. Her life
an incredible death story has intrigued thousands since that dreadful
morning of August twelfth, nineteen sixty seven. The circumstances and
stories are contained in the book Murder of Missus Buford
(00:29):
Pusser by Oakley Dean Balwin. Oakley Dean Balwin is our
guest today. So in the book Murder of Missus Bufford Pusser,
you outline what most of what Buford Pusser did. You
outline that life. Talk about that first of all, their
life before we get into the actual murder and where
it's going now.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
He was born in Tennessee, and after high school he
moved up to Chicago and he became a wrestler and
he went by the name Buford the Bull, and he
walked at a club called the Buccaneer Club, and he
actually met Pauline Mullen's vant at the time, she was
(01:10):
divorced from her first husband, Roman Dance, and she had
three children by him, and she met Beauford in early
of nineteen fifty nine and they got married on December
fifth of nineteen fifty nine. And he made a go
(01:33):
of it up there, wrestling for a year or two,
and then after they had their daughter together Iwana, they
moved to back down to.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Tennessee, Okay. And that's where it all began. When they
moved to Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
His father was a police chief in Adamsville and he
got injured in a car wreck. He injured as hip
really bad and basically talked to the town commissioners about
giving his son his position. So Duffort basically took the
(02:12):
position of police chief in Tennessee first and early sixties
until he ran for sheriff in nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
So he was the chief police in the same place
that he ran for sheriff, as that he was a
police chief.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Just in the same county. Now, the sheriff only does
two years back then when he did two year terms,
so he would have to run, you know, sixty four
when he got elected in sixty six, sixty eight, and
then at seventy he had to step out, okay, because
you could only have three consecutive terms.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, and so he he you you all. First of all,
you're related to missus Pusser, right, she Pauline.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Was a distant relative of mind. My grandmother was Mullins
from the same area Hayes I, Virginia. So I knew
about this murder, probably back in the seventies. I was young, Yeah,
but I knew about it. I knew about her being
a distant relative, but I didn't know anything about the
(03:22):
particulars about her murder.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
What do you think? And you too, You were former
police officer too, so you know it probably look at
it a little differently we do. I remember, I can
remember about the murder, but I think maybe the movie
probably is what I remember about the murder. But to
talk about the murder when it happened, they were going
(03:48):
out at night or what were they doing?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Right On the night of August twelfth of nineteen sixty seven,
sheriff came in at his normal time and he usually
got off round two am. He took his uniform off,
and shortly after that his phone rang at home and
he answered it and said something to the effect of
(04:11):
whether there's trouble down at the state line, and I
need to go down there, And he said that Pauline
was worried about his safety because he had been threatened
several times. If she wanted to ride with him, and
they got in the car about between three point thirty
(04:32):
and four o'clock, they would have left their home. Should
have been about a thirty minute drive down to the
state line, but for unknown reasons, the sheriff took the
back roads and ended up his story as they ended
up being ambushed on New Hope Road about between four
(04:53):
point thirty and four forty five am.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Was it somebody that followed them where they were being ambush?
Do you know that?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Well, it was still dark and he thinks that the
car pulled out from behind the local church before he
gets to a bridge, because his first noticed that something
was wrong was the car was almost up on him
and beside him when they pulled their headlights on, so
it still had to be dark and the car had
(05:27):
to come up behind him with the headlights off. And
then at that point he says that the affail has
fired at his car and one shot hit Pauline in
the head and he was dazed. A little bit, the
car left, and then it came back and he pulled off,
(05:54):
and he went up about two miles to a wide
open space near the grave yards, and then he pulled
over to check on Pauline. And then a few minutes
or a few seconds later, apparently the car pulled up
beside him again to try to finish the job, and
that's when he says he was shot in the jaw area,
(06:19):
and he said Pauline was shot again in the head,
and obviously she was murdered at that time from two
high powered rifle shots to her skull. And the car
was hit at least eleven times. They found fourteen shells
(06:40):
on the ground.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Now this did you hear this from him? Did you
read it? Or where'd you get this from him?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I've read many many statements, newspaper articles, things that he
had reported to law enforcement officers, and things that he
reported to other newspapers, interviews and those types of things.
Trying to put it all together was real difficult because
(07:10):
his story changed a little bit over time. And one
of my issues is the timing of his story. For instance,
when he was first shot upon, you know, he never
pulled his weapon and he never called for assistance on
his radio, and then he drove another two miles and
(07:33):
he still didn't call for assistance on his radio, and
he didn't pull his weapon and they shot, you know,
they had the second ambush site. And then from four
point forty five a m he only drove five miles
until six point twenty when he was reported trying to
(07:53):
talk on the radio. And that's a lot of time
in there, just for a five minth drive.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Right. Well, then the fact that they, as you mentioned earlier,
he went up back on back roads and all of
a sudden, there they are, you.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Know, Yeah, and that's another part of the timing. You know,
if he'd left at three o'clock or if you know,
you could see him being down there by around three
point thirty ish. And but why would he take the
back roads. He was known for his fast driving and
he had a heavy foot, and the taking the main
(08:33):
highway would have been much quicker for them to go
to that call. So just taking the back roads, well,
first of all, taking your spouse with you on a
disturbance calls as a red flag to me as a
thirty four year sworn law for you. And then not
calling in not attempting to calling, and he had five
(08:54):
opportunities to pull his weapons, and he never said he
pulled his weapon and returned fire at any of those opportunities,
which is real confusing to me as a police office.
There's a lot of I have a lot of questions
in my book. I list a lot of those questions.
I've got a couple YouTube videos that I've done where
(09:15):
I'm listing I try to break it down a list
more questions.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, what what do you think happened? And have they
investigated it since then? Like with you here, with you
writing the book about this has has somebody investigated it?
Are they investigating it now?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, the TBI did investigate it back in sixty seven,
but it's lingered and there wasn't anybody arrested or even
charged with the crime of murder on Pauline or the
assault charges against the sheriff. And I started looking into
this story real heavy and researching it back in twenty nineteen.
(10:00):
In twenty twenty, I released my book Murder of missus
Dupi Puster in twenty twenty one, and about five months ago,
I received a phone call from the TBI Tennessee Girls
Investigation and spoke to an agent. He actually said that
(10:21):
he had my book and he was enjoying reading it
and had some of the same concerns that I had,
And he and pulled me at that time that they
had reopened her murder investigation.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Okay, do you know if they're Well, that's the first time.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
That was the first time that I knew that they
were actually serious about reopening the investigation. And then on
February the eighth, they actually exhumed Pauline's body for an autopsy.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Oh did that show them anything?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Oh, it's still ongoing currently right now. This is a
breaking news story. Oh wow, they still they still have
their body and they're still doing the autopsy a month later,
over a month later.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Wow, this takes that they take that much time to
do it. Huh, So it's going on right now.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
They can take sometimes it can take several months because
corn how in depth they do the autopsy.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Oh, man, it so it could come out that it
could come out. That's something. Something's there. And are the
two guys I assume two guys that were shooting are
they still living?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh? They never they never have actually accused anybody officially
of the shooters who they were. He said that he
thought there were three men in a.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Black car callow.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
But they've never He's named a couple of people over
the you know, he died in nineteen seventy four of
a car accident, but he named a few people that
he fought with suspects, but they never could connect them
to the crime.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
What would be his reason for and speculation, I know,
but what would be his reason for killing her?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Well, some people believe that if he did kill her,
she was going to divorce him and go to the
TBI with some activities that he was doing, possibly selling
moonshine herself and those types of things. Some other people
say that he was involved with some other women. I
(12:37):
never came across that. Now. One thing that he did
do is and a lot of sheriffs did this back
in the fifties and sixties, Back in the day when
they would confiscate moonshine or illegal liquor, they would actually
store it and hand it out at some of these
voting priestincts as gifts and kind of offering to get
(12:59):
people to go their way. I know that sounds terrible now,
but that actually wasn't uncommon back in the late fifties
and early nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, yeah, man, that is something. Now you wouldn't hear
you see it now, it'd be weird.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah yeah, if that happened this day, you would probably
be removed from office.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I was going to say that the men that he
accused was Cursey Nicks and Gary McDaniel and George mcgainn.
But like I said, he had no proof. They were
never charged with anything. And actually Kursey Nix is still
in prison. He had a life sentence for killing a
(13:44):
man in his home and he's been interviewed several times
and he's not admitting to anything.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh really, he nothing, nothing at all, not even that
he was there. Huh nothing. Yeah. Now are the other
two general one still alive?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Actually both of those men were murdered. Oh and some
people believe that, you know, view for took you know,
retribution again those people, I had other people on his
behalf murdered these man. But one man was murdered playing
an illegal betting card game and the other man was
(14:24):
found murdered floating in a river down in I want
to say, down in Texas.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Off the top hand, you know, it's amazing and growing
up I saw the movies, and I looked at the movies,
and they remade the movie with Rock and all these
people like that. But seeing the movie, you know, you're thinking, wow,
this is this is great. But I guess the movie
they sensationalized something in the movie. Sensationalize a lot of
(14:50):
it in the movie. Of course, the movie, it really
brought out that that era. It's kind of brought out
that that the place that they lived in, and it
told us all all have places like that, and it
brought out this certain area, a certain place that we
(15:13):
are living. And we look at our sheriff and everybody else.
We don't know what's going on the murder of missus
Buford Pussler your book. What are you hoping that they
will do? Now? Did did? There's an investigation going on?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Well being from being related, you know, to Pauline. The
Mullein family have always wondered what happened to her and
why her homopide was never falld. So this was good
news that they uh that they used some of the
information of my book and another gentleman's book and some
(15:51):
other information that they've been getting over the years to
reopen the cave. So finding up for Pauline and the family.
He actually still has one brother of one sister living.
She has many nieces and cousins that I've spoken with
(16:12):
during the time I did the resource of the book,
so they're very concerned. Now none of them really suspects
Beauport of any foul play, but this autopsy will will
put that to rest one way or the other.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Well, that's right, that's true. What is he going to
do in his life after the murder?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Well, he actually a lot of people don't realize this,
but when he sat out in nineteen seventy he became
a constable. Oh and yeah, he did that. But then
in nineteen seventy two he ran for sheriff again in
McNairy County and he got defeated. So things had already
(16:56):
soured between seventy and seventy two for him. And in
in nineteen seventy four, he signed a contract. That day,
or the twenty four hour period before he died, he
signed a contract with Hollywood to play hisself in an
upcoming Walking Tall movie. And then he went to a
(17:20):
county fair and some people said that he was consuming
alcohol and he left his daughter rode home with a
friend and they left before him, and the daughter and
the girlfriend and Stephen. Juanna said that Buford went flying
(17:41):
by them so fast that you know, they were concerned
for his safety. So he had a Corvette and he
was driving so fast it was almost like a blur.
And the highway was posted at fifty five miles an hour.
And he hit an area down the road called Thrill Hill,
(18:02):
and he actually went airborne. And when he landed, he
went so far, skidding across the highway, across gravel parking lots,
he hit an embankments, he rolled over. The car flipped
several times and it he ejected him and it actually
broke his neck and he died from the car wreck.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh man, So he never got to see the fruits
of Labor with the movie or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Right, I'm sure he got royalties from the first three
movies that they did in the early seventies, but I don't,
you know, there's a lot of speculation. Some people believe
that he was being chased by the Tennessee Mob or
the State Line Mob, but there's no evidence of that.
You know, no one saw anybody leave behind him when
(18:57):
he left the fair. No one saw even his own daughter,
you know, would have seen somebody chasing him because he
went by them so fast. One of the witnesses that
heard the wreck said the car was going so fast
it sounded like a jet engine went by his house.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Colley, Wow, he just he went fast all the time,
didn't he.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
He was. He actually had another car wreck right before
he left office in October sixty nine where he flipped
his cruiser over and flattened the top and was pinning
the car and they had to he was. He actually
was pinning the car for several hours and it causes
(19:45):
fracture to his eye hocket and his upper cheek area.
That surgery was actually from the car accident right before
he left office in nineteen.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
He just the way he lived, in the way he policed.
He he was always for trouble and got trouble a
lot of times. I guess.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, there's a lot of things that people Obviously, the
movie did not portray his life. It was all fiction
and it wasn't had It really didn't have anything to
do with the true sheriff view for Putzer of six
(20:28):
years that he was sharing.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Did he in real life? Did he have an axe
handle like he carried ax handley beat people with it
and beat beat up things and hit things with Did
he have an axe handle?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Well, what I can figure out, you know, of course,
the steals that he broke up, he would do some
ax handles to break up the steel. And the only
time that he carry a stick that that I have
found documented was he was called to a man's house
that was drinking and beating his wife, and Uford grabbed
(21:01):
him and pulled him outside and took a switch from
a tree, and he whipped him with a switch like
he would do a child. And he told them that
he said, this time, I'm whipping you like a child.
He said, but next time I come here, if you
beat your wife, I'm going to whip you like a man.
And that's the only time he actually used a stick
(21:23):
or in this case to be a switch to beat somebody.
All those things you saw in the movie never happened.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You see that. I'm glad you cleared that up, because
that's what we remember him as, the guy carrying the stick,
you know.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, And he's got a lot of fame for that.
So of course he's got a lot of pictures in
the museum. They'll sell an autographed stick of his you know,
if you want to purchase that. But he never carried
a stick in the first year or so, he never
even carried a pistol. So there's very little prime. All
(22:03):
that was ninety nine percent of that was Hollywood drama.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Now, is there a museum you can go to down there?
It shows some of his things?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
They yes, his house was turned into a museum before
his daughter, the Wanna passed away, and she actually would
give presentations.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
But there's several full time employees that work there currently
and each year they have a bus tour where they
go to the ambush size and that type of thing.
And they actually have his corvette when it flipped over.
It also caught on fire and burned up pretty bad,
but they have that at the house. They have a
(22:48):
lot of his his badges and his weapons and those
types of things.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Man, it's he was. He was a legend, I guess
the legend. But did you tell the truth about him?
In the book The Murdered Music Perfect Pusser, You you
talk about him, and you know, I read the book
and I noticed what he didn't like that and that
he acted certain ways in different ways, And a lot
(23:15):
of it is is Hollywood. But uh, it comes across,
you come across. You portray him the right way in
this book, right.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, I went by actual records, documents, police records, and
newspaper articles. But what the reader needs to keep in
mind is they didn't have public affairs officers back then
like they do now. So the sheriff was the public
affairs person and press media person, so he would have
(23:46):
told the stories and the reporters would have reported exactly
the way he told it. They didn't have the same
type of investigative reporters that they have now on yeah
newspaper and TV channels and things, so it was a
different role back.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
In the sixth Did you ever meet him?
Speaker 3 (24:06):
No, I never met him, and he, like I said,
he died in seventy four. I was in high school
till seventy five.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Okay, okay, so he didn't know that you were a
law enforcement officer. It was related to him. But you
met missus but met his wife?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I know, Actually I didn't really. My family moved away
from Virginia and moved to West Virginia. So I graduated
high school in Beckley, West Virginia, and then went in
the state place in seventy eight, Okay, and.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Just picked this up and decided to write a book.
But the book is fantastic, it really is. It's a
great books. It's a small book, so folks, you can
get it and read it, and it's really worth reading.
So right now, we're waiting on the results of the
autopsy of HER's that's really where we are at right now,
right queer.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
And you know, of course, if if the autopsy comes
back to where there's no concern or anything, there'll be
just a minor update to my current book. But if
it comes back to where they find other injuries that
could have possibly caused her to be incapacitated, or actually
(25:23):
even where she could have died from a knife wound
or shot with a smaller caliber weapon in the different
part of her body, or any way other than what
sheriff you for Puss or said happened to her, then
you know that changes everything.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, it really does. It really does. When do
you expect that to happen or do you know?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, of course, you know, mine would just be speculation.
I would normally think that another month we should hear
something from the TV. I would hope and maybe sooner
because it's been already was February the eighth till now
has been what over six weeks?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And do you stay in touch with the officers of
TBI they're working on it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I do reach back out to them, but they can't
tell me anything, of course, and I know they can't
because of my law enforcement background. But you know, if
I do want to stay on top of the brinking
news when it does break. And another thing is, even
though he's passed away, they could impaddle a grand jury
(26:37):
to try to get an indictment for murder and to
close the case if the autopsy reporter shows that she
was murdered, possibly before she was shot in the head.
You know, so there's a lot of possibilities. And then
there's still always that possibility that you know, he was
(27:01):
still involved with setting it up and that type of thing.
So it doesn't really go away. It's just more clarification.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, it really is. It will be interesting to see
and it's coming up pretty soon. We're gonna we're gonna
stay on the top of it because I want to
update on the light last of that. That's going to
be interesting to know. It really is, Uh, the murder
of the murder of Missus Buford Pusser. That is a
book by Oakley Dean Baldwin and Dean You've been with
us today and it's fascinating to talk to you about this.
(27:32):
Anything anything you would like to remain Would you like
to anything else to say?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Well, you can go to YouTube and type in my
full name Oakley Dean Baldwin or the Baldwin Stories and
my videos will come up. Or they can go to
Amazon and type in Oakley Dean Baldwin and all of
our books. My wife and I actually have twenty seven books,
and most of them are thrillers and good crimes and
(28:00):
family mystery.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Do you have any book signings coming up?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Just did a book signing in Durham, North Carolina last week. Okay,
so I'm pretty much caught up for this month very much.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Do you ever Do you get down to the museum
in the Beauford Pushure Museum.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
No, but I hope to in the near future, depending
on how this goes, we definitely make a trip down there.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Are his kids all alive now? I know she's got
a daughter that's just it's passed away. But are they
alive now?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
No? All the children, Mike and Diana and Karen have
all passed away, and then do Wanna passed away in
twenty eighteen. There are some grandchildren still living, and I
actually interviewed one of the granddaughters and she's still living.
(28:54):
She doesn't want, you know, to be contact right right,
A name out of it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, thank you so much. It's a pleasure meeting you,
pleasure talking to you, and very interesting. I love this
story and I want people to get the book, The
Murder of Missus Buford Pusser Pusser. It's definitely worth it.
Thank you so much. Thee appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Thank you, sir, have a great day.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Our guest today has been Oakley Dan Baldwin. He's the
author of the book Murder of Missus Butford Pusser, and
since recording this interview, her body has now been reinterred
in the cemetery in which it was removed from. Now
we all wait the autopsy results, which could come at
any day. Find out more in the Murder of Missus
Buford Pusser. For questions and comments about today's program, you
(29:38):
can email me John Clark at iHeartMedia dot com. Thanks
for listening. I'll talk to you next week right here.
On your local radio station on Tennessee matters,
It's Tennessee Matters on the Tennessee Radio Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to Tennessee Matters. I'm John Clark and the Tennessee
Radio Network. What really happened to Pauline Mullins, the wife
of Sheriff Buford Pusser of Walking Tall Fame. Her life
an incredible death story has intrigued thousands since that dreadful
morning of August twelfth, nineteen sixty seven. The circumstances and
stories are contained in the book Murder of Missus Buford
(00:29):
Pusser by Oakley Dean Balwin. Oakley Dean Balwin is our
guest today. So in the book Murder of Missus Bufford Pusser,
you outline what most of what Buford Pusser did. You
outline that life. Talk about that first of all, their
life before we get into the actual murder and where
it's going now.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
He was born in Tennessee, and after high school he
moved up to Chicago and he became a wrestler and
he went by the name Buford the Bull, and he
walked at a club called the Buccaneer Club, and he
actually met Pauline Mullen's vant at the time, she was
(01:10):
divorced from her first husband, Roman Dance, and she had
three children by him, and she met Beauford in early
of nineteen fifty nine and they got married on December
fifth of nineteen fifty nine. And he made a go
(01:33):
of it up there, wrestling for a year or two,
and then after they had their daughter together Iwana, they
moved to back down to.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Tennessee, Okay. And that's where it all began. When they
moved to Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
His father was a police chief in Adamsville and he
got injured in a car wreck. He injured as hip
really bad and basically talked to the town commissioners about
giving his son his position. So Duffort basically took the
(02:12):
position of police chief in Tennessee first and early sixties
until he ran for sheriff in nineteen sixty four.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
So he was the chief police in the same place
that he ran for sheriff, as that he was a
police chief.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Just in the same county. Now, the sheriff only does
two years back then when he did two year terms,
so he would have to run, you know, sixty four
when he got elected in sixty six, sixty eight, and
then at seventy he had to step out, okay, because
you could only have three consecutive terms.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, and so he he you you all. First of all,
you're related to missus Pusser, right, she Pauline.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Was a distant relative of mind. My grandmother was Mullins
from the same area Hayes I, Virginia. So I knew
about this murder, probably back in the seventies. I was young, Yeah,
but I knew about it. I knew about her being
a distant relative, but I didn't know anything about the
(03:22):
particulars about her murder.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
What do you think? And you too, You were former
police officer too, so you know it probably look at
it a little differently we do. I remember, I can
remember about the murder, but I think maybe the movie
probably is what I remember about the murder. But to
talk about the murder when it happened, they were going
(03:48):
out at night or what were they doing?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Right On the night of August twelfth of nineteen sixty seven,
sheriff came in at his normal time and he usually
got off round two am. He took his uniform off,
and shortly after that his phone rang at home and
he answered it and said something to the effect of
(04:11):
whether there's trouble down at the state line, and I
need to go down there, And he said that Pauline
was worried about his safety because he had been threatened
several times. If she wanted to ride with him, and
they got in the car about between three point thirty
(04:32):
and four o'clock, they would have left their home. Should
have been about a thirty minute drive down to the
state line, but for unknown reasons, the sheriff took the
back roads and ended up his story as they ended
up being ambushed on New Hope Road about between four
(04:53):
point thirty and four forty five am.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Was it somebody that followed them where they were being ambush?
Do you know that?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Well, it was still dark and he thinks that the
car pulled out from behind the local church before he
gets to a bridge, because his first noticed that something
was wrong was the car was almost up on him
and beside him when they pulled their headlights on, so
it still had to be dark and the car had
(05:27):
to come up behind him with the headlights off. And
then at that point he says that the affail has
fired at his car and one shot hit Pauline in
the head and he was dazed. A little bit, the
car left, and then it came back and he pulled off,
(05:54):
and he went up about two miles to a wide
open space near the grave yards, and then he pulled
over to check on Pauline. And then a few minutes
or a few seconds later, apparently the car pulled up
beside him again to try to finish the job, and
that's when he says he was shot in the jaw area,
(06:19):
and he said Pauline was shot again in the head,
and obviously she was murdered at that time from two
high powered rifle shots to her skull. And the car
was hit at least eleven times. They found fourteen shells
(06:40):
on the ground.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Now this did you hear this from him? Did you
read it? Or where'd you get this from him?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I've read many many statements, newspaper articles, things that he
had reported to law enforcement officers, and things that he
reported to other newspapers, interviews and those types of things.
Trying to put it all together was real difficult because
(07:10):
his story changed a little bit over time. And one
of my issues is the timing of his story. For instance,
when he was first shot upon, you know, he never
pulled his weapon and he never called for assistance on
his radio, and then he drove another two miles and
(07:33):
he still didn't call for assistance on his radio, and
he didn't pull his weapon and they shot, you know,
they had the second ambush site. And then from four
point forty five a m he only drove five miles
until six point twenty when he was reported trying to
(07:53):
talk on the radio. And that's a lot of time
in there, just for a five minth drive.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Right. Well, then the fact that they, as you mentioned earlier,
he went up back on back roads and all of
a sudden, there they are, you.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Know, Yeah, and that's another part of the timing. You know,
if he'd left at three o'clock or if you know,
you could see him being down there by around three
point thirty ish. And but why would he take the
back roads. He was known for his fast driving and
he had a heavy foot, and the taking the main
(08:33):
highway would have been much quicker for them to go
to that call. So just taking the back roads, well,
first of all, taking your spouse with you on a
disturbance calls as a red flag to me as a
thirty four year sworn law for you. And then not
calling in not attempting to calling, and he had five
(08:54):
opportunities to pull his weapons, and he never said he
pulled his weapon and returned fire at any of those opportunities,
which is real confusing to me as a police office.
There's a lot of I have a lot of questions
in my book. I list a lot of those questions.
I've got a couple YouTube videos that I've done where
(09:15):
I'm listing I try to break it down a list
more questions.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, what what do you think happened? And have they
investigated it since then? Like with you here, with you
writing the book about this has has somebody investigated it?
Are they investigating it now?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, the TBI did investigate it back in sixty seven,
but it's lingered and there wasn't anybody arrested or even
charged with the crime of murder on Pauline or the
assault charges against the sheriff. And I started looking into
this story real heavy and researching it back in twenty nineteen.
(10:00):
In twenty twenty, I released my book Murder of missus
Dupi Puster in twenty twenty one, and about five months ago,
I received a phone call from the TBI Tennessee Girls
Investigation and spoke to an agent. He actually said that
(10:21):
he had my book and he was enjoying reading it
and had some of the same concerns that I had,
And he and pulled me at that time that they
had reopened her murder investigation.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Okay, do you know if they're Well, that's the first time.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
That was the first time that I knew that they
were actually serious about reopening the investigation. And then on
February the eighth, they actually exhumed Pauline's body for an autopsy.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Oh did that show them anything?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Oh, it's still ongoing currently right now. This is a
breaking news story. Oh wow, they still they still have
their body and they're still doing the autopsy a month later,
over a month later.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Wow, this takes that they take that much time to
do it. Huh, So it's going on right now.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
They can take sometimes it can take several months because
corn how in depth they do the autopsy.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Oh, man, it so it could come out that it
could come out. That's something. Something's there. And are the
two guys I assume two guys that were shooting are
they still living?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh? They never they never have actually accused anybody officially
of the shooters who they were. He said that he
thought there were three men in a.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Black car callow.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
But they've never He's named a couple of people over
the you know, he died in nineteen seventy four of
a car accident, but he named a few people that
he fought with suspects, but they never could connect them
to the crime.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
What would be his reason for and speculation, I know,
but what would be his reason for killing her?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Well, some people believe that if he did kill her,
she was going to divorce him and go to the
TBI with some activities that he was doing, possibly selling
moonshine herself and those types of things. Some other people
say that he was involved with some other women. I
(12:37):
never came across that. Now. One thing that he did
do is and a lot of sheriffs did this back
in the fifties and sixties, Back in the day when
they would confiscate moonshine or illegal liquor, they would actually
store it and hand it out at some of these
voting priestincts as gifts and kind of offering to get
(12:59):
people to go their way. I know that sounds terrible now,
but that actually wasn't uncommon back in the late fifties
and early nineteen fifties.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, yeah, man, that is something. Now you wouldn't hear
you see it now, it'd be weird.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah yeah, if that happened this day, you would probably
be removed from office.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I was going to say that the men that he
accused was Cursey Nicks and Gary McDaniel and George mcgainn.
But like I said, he had no proof. They were
never charged with anything. And actually Kursey Nix is still
in prison. He had a life sentence for killing a
(13:44):
man in his home and he's been interviewed several times
and he's not admitting to anything.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh really, he nothing, nothing at all, not even that
he was there. Huh nothing. Yeah. Now are the other
two general one still alive?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Actually both of those men were murdered. Oh and some
people believe that, you know, view for took you know,
retribution again those people, I had other people on his
behalf murdered these man. But one man was murdered playing
an illegal betting card game and the other man was
(14:24):
found murdered floating in a river down in I want
to say, down in Texas.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Off the top hand, you know, it's amazing and growing
up I saw the movies, and I looked at the movies,
and they remade the movie with Rock and all these
people like that. But seeing the movie, you know, you're thinking, wow,
this is this is great. But I guess the movie
they sensationalized something in the movie. Sensationalize a lot of
(14:50):
it in the movie. Of course, the movie, it really
brought out that that era. It's kind of brought out
that that the place that they lived in, and it
told us all all have places like that, and it
brought out this certain area, a certain place that we
(15:13):
are living. And we look at our sheriff and everybody else.
We don't know what's going on the murder of missus
Buford Pussler your book. What are you hoping that they
will do? Now? Did did? There's an investigation going on?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Well being from being related, you know, to Pauline. The
Mullein family have always wondered what happened to her and
why her homopide was never falld. So this was good
news that they uh that they used some of the
information of my book and another gentleman's book and some
(15:51):
other information that they've been getting over the years to
reopen the cave. So finding up for Pauline and the family.
He actually still has one brother of one sister living.
She has many nieces and cousins that I've spoken with
(16:12):
during the time I did the resource of the book,
so they're very concerned. Now none of them really suspects
Beauport of any foul play, but this autopsy will will
put that to rest one way or the other.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Well, that's right, that's true. What is he going to
do in his life after the murder?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Well, he actually a lot of people don't realize this,
but when he sat out in nineteen seventy he became
a constable. Oh and yeah, he did that. But then
in nineteen seventy two he ran for sheriff again in
McNairy County and he got defeated. So things had already
(16:56):
soured between seventy and seventy two for him. And in
in nineteen seventy four, he signed a contract. That day,
or the twenty four hour period before he died, he
signed a contract with Hollywood to play hisself in an
upcoming Walking Tall movie. And then he went to a
(17:20):
county fair and some people said that he was consuming
alcohol and he left his daughter rode home with a
friend and they left before him, and the daughter and
the girlfriend and Stephen. Juanna said that Buford went flying
(17:41):
by them so fast that you know, they were concerned
for his safety. So he had a Corvette and he
was driving so fast it was almost like a blur.
And the highway was posted at fifty five miles an hour.
And he hit an area down the road called Thrill Hill,
(18:02):
and he actually went airborne. And when he landed, he
went so far, skidding across the highway, across gravel parking lots,
he hit an embankments, he rolled over. The car flipped
several times and it he ejected him and it actually
broke his neck and he died from the car wreck.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh man, So he never got to see the fruits
of Labor with the movie or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Right, I'm sure he got royalties from the first three
movies that they did in the early seventies, but I don't,
you know, there's a lot of speculation. Some people believe
that he was being chased by the Tennessee Mob or
the State Line Mob, but there's no evidence of that.
You know, no one saw anybody leave behind him when
(18:57):
he left the fair. No one saw even his own daughter,
you know, would have seen somebody chasing him because he
went by them so fast. One of the witnesses that
heard the wreck said the car was going so fast
it sounded like a jet engine went by his house.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Colley, Wow, he just he went fast all the time,
didn't he.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
He was. He actually had another car wreck right before
he left office in October sixty nine where he flipped
his cruiser over and flattened the top and was pinning
the car and they had to he was. He actually
was pinning the car for several hours and it causes
(19:45):
fracture to his eye hocket and his upper cheek area.
That surgery was actually from the car accident right before
he left office in nineteen.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
He just the way he lived, in the way he policed.
He he was always for trouble and got trouble a
lot of times. I guess.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, there's a lot of things that people Obviously, the
movie did not portray his life. It was all fiction
and it wasn't had It really didn't have anything to
do with the true sheriff view for Putzer of six
(20:28):
years that he was sharing.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Did he in real life? Did he have an axe
handle like he carried ax handley beat people with it
and beat beat up things and hit things with Did
he have an axe handle?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Well, what I can figure out, you know, of course,
the steals that he broke up, he would do some
ax handles to break up the steel. And the only
time that he carry a stick that that I have
found documented was he was called to a man's house
that was drinking and beating his wife, and Uford grabbed
(21:01):
him and pulled him outside and took a switch from
a tree, and he whipped him with a switch like
he would do a child. And he told them that
he said, this time, I'm whipping you like a child.
He said, but next time I come here, if you
beat your wife, I'm going to whip you like a man.
And that's the only time he actually used a stick
(21:23):
or in this case to be a switch to beat somebody.
All those things you saw in the movie never happened.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You see that. I'm glad you cleared that up, because
that's what we remember him as, the guy carrying the stick,
you know.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, And he's got a lot of fame for that.
So of course he's got a lot of pictures in
the museum. They'll sell an autographed stick of his you know,
if you want to purchase that. But he never carried
a stick in the first year or so, he never
even carried a pistol. So there's very little prime. All
(22:03):
that was ninety nine percent of that was Hollywood drama.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Now, is there a museum you can go to down there?
It shows some of his things?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
They yes, his house was turned into a museum before
his daughter, the Wanna passed away, and she actually would
give presentations.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
But there's several full time employees that work there currently
and each year they have a bus tour where they
go to the ambush size and that type of thing.
And they actually have his corvette when it flipped over.
It also caught on fire and burned up pretty bad,
but they have that at the house. They have a
(22:48):
lot of his his badges and his weapons and those
types of things.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Man, it's he was. He was a legend, I guess
the legend. But did you tell the truth about him?
In the book The Murdered Music Perfect Pusser, You you
talk about him, and you know, I read the book
and I noticed what he didn't like that and that
he acted certain ways in different ways, And a lot
(23:15):
of it is is Hollywood. But uh, it comes across,
you come across. You portray him the right way in
this book, right.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, I went by actual records, documents, police records, and
newspaper articles. But what the reader needs to keep in
mind is they didn't have public affairs officers back then
like they do now. So the sheriff was the public
affairs person and press media person, so he would have
(23:46):
told the stories and the reporters would have reported exactly
the way he told it. They didn't have the same
type of investigative reporters that they have now on yeah
newspaper and TV channels and things, so it was a
different role back.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
In the sixth Did you ever meet him?
Speaker 3 (24:06):
No, I never met him, and he, like I said,
he died in seventy four. I was in high school
till seventy five.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Okay, okay, so he didn't know that you were a
law enforcement officer. It was related to him. But you
met missus but met his wife?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I know, Actually I didn't really. My family moved away
from Virginia and moved to West Virginia. So I graduated
high school in Beckley, West Virginia, and then went in
the state place in seventy eight, Okay, and.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Just picked this up and decided to write a book.
But the book is fantastic, it really is. It's a
great books. It's a small book, so folks, you can
get it and read it, and it's really worth reading.
So right now, we're waiting on the results of the
autopsy of HER's that's really where we are at right now,
right queer.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
And you know, of course, if if the autopsy comes
back to where there's no concern or anything, there'll be
just a minor update to my current book. But if
it comes back to where they find other injuries that
could have possibly caused her to be incapacitated, or actually
(25:23):
even where she could have died from a knife wound
or shot with a smaller caliber weapon in the different
part of her body, or any way other than what
sheriff you for Puss or said happened to her, then
you know that changes everything.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, it really does. It really does. When do
you expect that to happen or do you know?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, of course, you know, mine would just be speculation.
I would normally think that another month we should hear
something from the TV. I would hope and maybe sooner
because it's been already was February the eighth till now
has been what over six weeks?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And do you stay in touch with the officers of
TBI they're working on it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I do reach back out to them, but they can't
tell me anything, of course, and I know they can't
because of my law enforcement background. But you know, if
I do want to stay on top of the brinking
news when it does break. And another thing is, even
though he's passed away, they could impaddle a grand jury
(26:37):
to try to get an indictment for murder and to
close the case if the autopsy reporter shows that she
was murdered, possibly before she was shot in the head.
You know, so there's a lot of possibilities. And then
there's still always that possibility that you know, he was
(27:01):
still involved with setting it up and that type of thing.
So it doesn't really go away. It's just more clarification.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, it really is. It will be interesting to see
and it's coming up pretty soon. We're gonna we're gonna
stay on the top of it because I want to
update on the light last of that. That's going to
be interesting to know. It really is, Uh, the murder
of the murder of Missus Buford Pusser. That is a
book by Oakley Dean Baldwin and Dean You've been with
us today and it's fascinating to talk to you about this.
(27:32):
Anything anything you would like to remain Would you like
to anything else to say?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Well, you can go to YouTube and type in my
full name Oakley Dean Baldwin or the Baldwin Stories and
my videos will come up. Or they can go to
Amazon and type in Oakley Dean Baldwin and all of
our books. My wife and I actually have twenty seven books,
and most of them are thrillers and good crimes and
(28:00):
family mystery.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Do you have any book signings coming up?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Just did a book signing in Durham, North Carolina last week. Okay,
so I'm pretty much caught up for this month very much.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Do you ever Do you get down to the museum
in the Beauford Pushure Museum.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
No, but I hope to in the near future, depending
on how this goes, we definitely make a trip down there.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Are his kids all alive now? I know she's got
a daughter that's just it's passed away. But are they
alive now?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
No? All the children, Mike and Diana and Karen have
all passed away, and then do Wanna passed away in
twenty eighteen. There are some grandchildren still living, and I
actually interviewed one of the granddaughters and she's still living.
(28:54):
She doesn't want, you know, to be contact right right,
A name out of it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, thank you so much. It's a pleasure meeting you,
pleasure talking to you, and very interesting. I love this
story and I want people to get the book, The
Murder of Missus Buford Pusser Pusser. It's definitely worth it.
Thank you so much. Thee appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Thank you, sir, have a great day.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Our guest today has been Oakley Dan Baldwin. He's the
author of the book Murder of Missus Butford Pusser, and
since recording this interview, her body has now been reinterred
in the cemetery in which it was removed from. Now
we all wait the autopsy results, which could come at
any day. Find out more in the Murder of Missus
Buford Pusser. For questions and comments about today's program, you
(29:38):
can email me John Clark at iHeartMedia dot com. Thanks
for listening. I'll talk to you next week right here.
On your local radio station on Tennessee matters,
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