12-21-25 - Rabbit Hunting with Scott Smith and Josh Bramel

Tonight, Jim and Scott talk about all things rabbit hunting with Scott Smith and Josh Bramel. They share decades of experience hunting with beagles and field troweling.  Scott Smith: 502-777-6216 Josh Bramel: 502-287-9743

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
News Radio eight forty whas welcomes you to Jim Straighter Outdoors,
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(01:05):
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and enjoy the best two hours of live outdoor radio

(01:25):
Jim Straighter Outdoors right here on News Radio eight forty.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Whas good evening, everybody, Jim Straighter here and for myself
and Scott Cronell, we wanted this year everybody and Merry
Christmas and happy Holidays.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
And Scott, you know, the holiday season has always.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Been for me and you, in our heritage and in
our bones, a town of the year to pursue rabbits.
And we have had so many requests for a rabbit
hunting program through the years that tonight tonight we got
two died in the world rabbit hunters. When I say
died in the wall, I'm talking about throw and through.

(02:06):
We got Scott Smith and Josh Brammle. There's probably a
lot of the listeners out there if they don't know them,
they probably know of them. They field trial, they hunt
all over the country.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
And guys, I'm really delighted to have you all with
us tonight.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Thank you to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
So Scott Cronin, you know, we both kind of cut
our teeth.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
On rabbit hunting.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
And my family, the holiday periods were always Thanksgiving in
Christmas up through New Year's were always something that I
did with my uncles and the Hubert family especially, and
that's my mother's side of the family. And obviously I
got bitten bite and I pursued rabbits my whole life.

(02:49):
Bobby Glasgow my good buddy down there and Henderson, Kentucky
and I hunt rabbits together with his dog for over
forty five years. And there isn't really much better sport.
If you love dogs the way I do and the
way you do, it's just wee so much fun.

Speaker 5 (03:08):
There's not a better sound than hearing that zipper on
zip to get your favorite rabbit.

Speaker 6 (03:14):
Hunting shotgun out.

Speaker 5 (03:16):
And there's so many ways that hunter education is demonstrated,
from a two hand carry to how you communicate fellowship
when you drop the tailgate. It's not just to let
the dogs out. Of the box when you drop that tailgate.
It's where the farmer a lot of times would even

(03:36):
stop stripping tobacco for a few hours and get out
and do some walking with you. And that rabbit's got
a lot of things to offer, because whether you're in
the woodlands or the swamps and around pasture or agricultural
river bottoms, rabbits can be found in so many different places,
and they change up where they're hiding at different points

(03:57):
of the year. And it doesn't matter what yoak or
what size shot you got in your shotgun. They'll humble
you every time when they get out right out from
your feet or right in front of a dog, and
they can make you look like a full real quick,
whether you got a single shot or a semi automatic.
And it's just such a good way for everybody to

(04:18):
get together at the close of a year, especially in
the state of Kentucky where this was such a traditional
time when tobacco was being taken to the warehouse. So
many kids could find their Christmas under the tree.

Speaker 6 (04:33):
There was always a day or.

Speaker 5 (04:34):
Two that a farmer could find to put his bibs on,
not to go to work, but to go chase a
rabbit and it's some of the most fondest memories I
have of my father and my grandfather and several friends
and landowners over the years.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Jim Well, I was really challenged as a youngster because
I was talking to hunt with a little tumble barrel
four ten that was full choking both barrels, and that's
pretty big impediment, especially jumping rabbits the way we used
to when I was a youngster. But I progressed on
up through the ranks and got into the chokes and

(05:11):
the loads.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
But we're gonna talk about all that tonight.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Scott and Josh again travel all over the country. They
field trial. We're gonna talk about that and the camaraderie
that goes along with that and the fun at having
an opportunity to work your dogs throughout the year, not
just seasons. We're gonna talk about the challenges with the
season dates that are set with deer and some of

(05:34):
the other critters that overlaps with rabbit hunting. That's made
very very hard in many cases to you know, get
the full benefit out of your dogs. And we'll talk
about land use practices that have impacted the sport, especially
as pertains to folks leasing land for deer hunting, which
excludes the rabbit hunters.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
So we're gonna cover all that tonight, and it's.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
I'm really looking forward to it because these guys are
dead bowl serious and I'm delighted to have them on
the show tonight. So I'm gonna go to break here.
This break is presented by s MI Marine. SMI will
be closed this week through the twelfth of January. They're
getting ready for the Sport Boat RV Show out of

(06:22):
the fair Grounds, so you'll want to see them out there.
The show is the twenty eighth through February first. That's
January twenty eighth through February first, and they'll.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Be in Booth one zero three zero ten thirty.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
And again they'll be closed through the holidays, so look
forward to seeing them at the boat show. All right, folks,
we'll be back right after this. All right, fellas, let's
dive right in here. Start talking rabbit. Scott Smith, tell
us a little bit about your background, how you got
into rabbit hunting, and you know what drives your train

(07:00):
about owning dogs and enjoying the sport and sharing it with.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Those Okay, a typical Kentucky kid going out Thanksgiving morning
with the family. While the women all cook the fabulous
Thanksgiving meal, all the men go out. We kick fence
rows and stump bushes and briars, and you know, as
a kid, you're the hardest two legged dog out there.
And that started, you know, back in the early seventies

(07:26):
and progressed up to now. Why I moved him aside
a gentleman named Wayne Waits, and he got me in
the field trialing and very very serious rabbit hunting. We
traveled all over Kentucky, Indiana, Tennessee hunting and then further
ranges field trialing.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Okay, cool, Josh, about yourself forty five years old.

Speaker 7 (07:51):
Been doing this since I could remember, as far as
being in elementary school, young man, always been around the
hunting part of it. Something I absolutely fell in love with.
It's like something we love what we do, and we
do what we love. That's how we look at it.
And I'll probably do it till I that I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
So bless your little heart.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
We'll tell us a little bit about your host dogs
that you currently have, and maybe talking about some of
your dogs that you had in to pass it. We're
outstanding for one reason another, Josh, you want to speak to.

Speaker 7 (08:27):
That, I'll carry smaller pack of dogs. Four to five
is all I carry. Of course I do hult with
Scott all the time too, so we always have more than.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Just that many dogs.

Speaker 7 (08:37):
And probably I'd say the best dog I've ever owned
is my dog Miya. She's actually get a little older now,
but she's the best check dog I've ever ever been around.
She's actually even in field traveling. She's done well in
both forms AYKC and aksey, which is hard to do sometimes.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
But she's a.

Speaker 7 (08:59):
Dog let's the track out, has a steady line. She
doesn't swing a lot, which is kind of odd for
what we'd like to use a lot. We use a
lot of little packstyle dogs. But for the most part,
probably the best dog, I'll be wrong. So she's strong jumper,
very strong, very strong.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
How about you, Scott.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
The best dog I've owned is my rock dog, and
he's currently ten years old and can still out of
jump most dogs half his age. He's just a fantastic
count I keep about eleven twelve thirteen dogs on hand.
Different age ranges from ten all the way down to
a six month pupp That way, I've always got something
in the pipeline. I've got males and females. I like

(09:39):
to breed a lot of my own stuff. Not big
into buying outside and bringing home. That's why if it's bad,
it's on me, I see. And well, tough folks.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
A little bit about starting to be a puppy, that's
a question. I get a lot and there's a lot
of different ways people do that.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Josh, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 7 (10:04):
I think most importantly it's showing it dog a rabbit.
If you can get a tame rabbit red backs, for instance,
with the puppies, they don't do like a wild rabbit
wheel and just run. These things will just hop in
front of your dogs a little bit so it can
stay right and close to it. Now, you can't put
a full sized dog on these rabbits because it'll catch
it and it'll be over. But as far as just

(10:26):
showing them the rabbit and let them go. With dogs
that are already started, it's the best way to get
one going. But sometimes you can have a intimidation factor
where you have a young pup with too many dogs
and they know what to do with they'll draw back.
So sometimes it's better with one or two dogs to
get one started, especially if it's a dog you already
know a whole lot about it and like to sell

(10:48):
they hunt. It's easier to get going that way.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I think, Well, one thing that I've seen through all
the years that i've been around different packs and hunting
with people is you've got to be careful not to
develop what I call them me too dog. And I
know most of you guys know what I'm talking about.
A dog that will give voice and will run with
the pack, but really is an inegral part of what's

(11:13):
going on. Scott your thoughts on that, and you go
parallel with That's what y'all should A boy starting.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Them very much. So you have to be careful with
a young dog added to a large pack because you'll
get to me too. They're just happy to be out
there and bark, and they don't understand what they're doing
just yet. I'll pick up roadkill, cut the head off
a roll killer, get the hide and let them have
it and chew on it and you know, get familiar
with it, drag it around the yard a little bit.

(11:41):
A starting pin is an option. But with a starting pin,
people like to leave them in there. It's not a
finishing pin. It is a starting pin. There's several of
them around Kentucky price ranges. Very it's a good option
if a man's working a lot, doesn't have a lot
of time, put your dog in a starting pin when
they starts. You know, a pen owner will call you

(12:03):
and say, hey, Scott, your dog treading. And if it
doesn't start five or six days, it's not a good
not a good sign.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Probably once.

Speaker 7 (12:13):
You can also create bad habits if you leave it
in a starting being sided too, it'll just get loose
mouth and kind of just keep running old tracks, new tracks,
every track and there. So once it started, you need
to kind of get them out of there or as
Hue can't race.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Some bad habits.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, any other thoughts there about the training process to
you fellows? Uh, specifically take a dog out and put
them on deer for example, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (12:40):
I will, I will just drop on the pack of
deer right on, just to see what I happened. To
get that out of the way immediately.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Well, a lot of.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
People have the misconception that a training collar electric collar
is is cruel, but it is not because one of
the worst things that was your dog killed or lost?

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Is running the deer exactly?

Speaker 4 (13:01):
That's correct, it's got to be broke.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Take them across a road a mile away.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
I mean, I see all the bad things happen, and
you're better off nipping in above when the dogs young
or you're in a controlled situation. Any other thoughts about
that initial training and what you're looking for in a dog.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Well, as you brought up shocking collars, they also have
beeping tones or vibration right. I've seen hunters field trollers
make the mistake of going straight to electricity. To train
a dog, you need to collar train the dog before
you try to break the dog. The dog needs to
understand what's happening.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
A long I.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
Can small small faults of the dog. I can correct
with the tone right and they respond. But if you
hit a young dog with electricity, the dog may cower
down them. A dog may go the other direction.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
It's scared to go from where the other He.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
Doesn't know what, doesn't understand what he did wrong because
they're young.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes, yes, it's similar to what I do with my
squirrel dogs. I use the tone to teach them. When
I say something gruff, they get a toe. But the
shock is reserved for me with TI it because it's
a great, big problem with any of the field dogs
that are you know, chase dogs like squirrel dogs are beagles.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Any other thoughts about that?

Speaker 5 (14:25):
What?

Speaker 3 (14:26):
How young do you put it up with a with
a pack.

Speaker 7 (14:33):
Well, if it's going enough, I mean, depends on what
you got six months. I've done five six months and
already hadn't started going before, no problem at all. They
already got the drive and want to go. But I've
seen it go the opposite way too. Some dogs just
don't have it and you'll find that out too.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Okay, the training pins you talked about, there are several
of them scattered across the stain. Yes, how do people
access to them? They interest in it? You know, how
they discover them?

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Look on Facebook? Some I'm blested on Facebook. Some have websites.
Word of mouth is a good one. We can you
know sometime if if one give up my phone number
on here. I've got two or three guys that I've
used before in the past, be glad to put their
name out there good and help somebody out.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, we'll do that later in a program. That's that'd
be great. It'll be better to get with you and
then you give the number out.

Speaker 7 (15:27):
I guess someone wants just given their all into legislation,
but there is diffinitely selling people.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yes, sir, yeah, I've been around those. They're pretty neat,
you know.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
The ones I've seen had brush files chattered out through them.
And it's pretty easy for a puff to get a
get a rabbit going. But like you say, you can
overdo that if you're not careful. Is you develop a
dog that doesn't stays in the trash?

Speaker 4 (15:51):
Well, what you can develop on that if it's a
one acre starting band, that rabbit's been there for five
or six months, been chased by fifty hand, he understands
the fence lines, he understands the made up fence that's
in there. He's gonna run the same track and the
dog will get to where he will not cut through
a fence, or he doesn't have to get into a

(16:11):
brush pile because there's six or eight nine rabbits in
there and he can just run him anytime. He can
just go find one right right, And what's.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
The number one trait that you fellas look for or
the strongest traits? The reason I'm asking that, well, buddy, Bobby, Glasgow,
who is pretty legendary. Yeah, from western Kentucky that is
fortunate enough to hunt with for forty something years. He
always said, I want a dog that's gonna jump. I

(16:40):
want a dog that's gonna be in the brush all day.
I want a dog that that's gonna make a rabbit,
is what he used to always say about it, as
his feeling was about any decent bigle will run a rabbit.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
You know. They follow the track, sure, but he always
cautioned us even about trying to jump the rabbits. He
wanted the dogs to do that one. What's your thoughts
about that?

Speaker 7 (17:05):
Well, I've got I've seen several different ways I like
a dog in a hunt, but I've also seen dogs
that are more or less I call a track dog.
They'll they'll hunt, but they won't hit, hunt as hard,
as dig as deep from the rabbits as the other
one as will. But as soon as it's up, they'll
swing around, grab a truck and just roll with it.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
You know.

Speaker 7 (17:25):
They got to drive too, and can run a rabbit,
you know, death, but may not have this hunt compared
to another dog. But I like one they will just
get in there in his grind and work it and
just get the rabbit up itself.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
You know, if if I can scott.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
First thing I look for in a rabbit dog is hunt.
If a dog doesn't have extreme hunt, you're wasting your time.
You have to get the rabbit up to run the rabbit.
You can't get it up, you can't run. It can't run,
you can't kill it, right, And gotta have a dog
with a hunt. And like Josh said, there's some dogs
they'll hunt, but then there's jump dogs.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Right.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
I've been doing this for about thirty years. I have
owned one jump dog in my thirty years. So they
don't just you can't pick them off trees, right right.
You know, either you've got one or you don't. And
if you do, you know it everybody tries to buy it.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
I've seen all kinds of mixture dogs too to make
a jump dog. Some of the best jump dogs I
ever hunted on were crosses with terriers and beagles.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
I know it sounds crazy, and they weren't must to
look at, but they were held on wheels on a rabbit.
I can tell you that.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
Long as they hunt, doesn't matter if the pink and
blow bubbles that's fine with me. Get in there and
hunt absolutely.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
All right, Scott Chronel, you got any quick questions here
before we go break? Okay, fellas, we're gonna delve into
all tin of rabbit hunt. We're gonna talk about, you know,
a local rabbit hunt. We're gonna talk about trips you
all take some states that you've found that are just

(19:00):
unbelievably good. We're gonna talk about swamp rabbits. We're gonna
that's a whole different critter. It is different ball game.
It's the one where I think if anybody's hunting rabbits
for a long time, that's kind of like going to college,
you know, right. It's the size of them will just
and harder believe sometimes when get one, and the tricks

(19:23):
they use, and always it's really cool stuff. Got cronin
You and I talk all the time about cover and
the need for covering. I know you're very very keen
to talk to.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
These fellas about that.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
You got some questions for him about you know, what
they look for them, what have you.

Speaker 5 (19:40):
Well, one of the things that's really important if you
want to go rabbit hunting is, uh, find somebody that's
got a good set of dogs. And then second thing
that's really important is learn how to use me as
born after the hunt, because those little pieces of property.

Speaker 6 (19:56):
That have all those little briers.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
And things that will sticky in poko in to have
a lot of opportunity when it comes to seend a
cottontail bounce in and out of it.

Speaker 6 (20:07):
But we joke and tease.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
All the time, jim off the air about if you're
not bleeding on some peace or part of the property,
it may not have the habitat that you need. And
whitetail deer are an overgrown rabbit and when it comes
to dense cover. A lot of times when we look
at some of the things that are out there, there's

(20:31):
so many avian predators that aren't controlled, from our hawks
to our owls and our eagles. Rabbits are on the
food table equation every day of the year, not just
during rabbit season for the human species, and those rabbits
get to where they like having that cover and structure

(20:54):
to get up in and underneath and to kind of
tie into that. It's amazing how many rabbits you can
kick up around the barn or around some old farm
equipment or some metal pallets or something laying around and
they like that canopy.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
That's that's what's so important. So I would like for.

Speaker 5 (21:15):
Josh and Scott to talk a little bit about where
they tend to find rabbits and what type of habitat
is best, and as you develop and flow through that
also tell us a little bit about what size shot
you like to have when you start hunting in a
little bit more thicker cover versus maybe running rabbits out

(21:36):
in the open fields.

Speaker 7 (21:38):
That's I'll tell you right now. Growing up, train tracks
was always my number one spot.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
I loved them.

Speaker 7 (21:46):
They were always thick, bushy, just always hill rabbits no
matter where you went. Now it's changed since railroads pres
a lot more now, but over that anything honeysuckle wise,
I like real nasty briars. If you're Sinni purple virus,
that's one of my favorite sideways looking for into But
I'll get in there and get all that going. But

(22:07):
thicker you are, sometimes you may want to get up
to about a number five shot if it's real thick,
but ultimately about the number six is what I prefer
to use on rabbits typically, Scott.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
Overgrown weed fields, they're becoming less of a commodity due
to sprain and agricultural and all hunters understand that the
farmers have the ground to make money. But if you
can you can run up on a very thick, overgrown
weed fill with fence rows protruded out of it, and
you've got a water source close by, that's a fantastic
place to hunt woodlines. You know, don't overlook your water

(22:47):
weight edges. If the water's not up and it's been
a fairly dry year, you'll have those fescue clumps, and
you'll have grass clumps and have some multiflor and rose
bushes and your water waste there. You can edge hunt
those generally, can get a few rabbits up out of that.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
You know you mentioned milt floor rows, that stuff. If
you can stumble upon a place that's got.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
A real long corridor of that.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Extra agriculture, that used to be one of my go
to in a big, big way. I guess what I
always said was you need to have a lot of rabbits.
You gotta have cover that's so thick and so throwing
that a cold can't zip through it. I mean, those jokers,
you know, they hunting packs. Despite what some of the bills,

(23:32):
just say, and if you're.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Not able to get in cover, what's difficult for them?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
You probably aren't going to see many droppings, and you
probably ain't gonna see many rabbits.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Drops is the main thing. Rabbit.

Speaker 7 (23:44):
I don't care how good it looks. If I'm not
seeing the droppings, you know they're not there.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Time to move exactly.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
If you had to describe an ideal cover, maybe one
that you got back of your minds, that you love
more than anyone you hunt in this part.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Of the country, what would it be honeysuckle for me?

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Honeysuckle with mixed yep. That's that's the best yep. Okay,
do you guys ever hunt cut over? You know places
where they've cut timber and honeysuckle and briar.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah, a lot of your tree lamps and stuff.

Speaker 7 (24:13):
It can be tough to get rabbits out of them
once they start going in the little little digit saying
that you can't really get them out.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
So if they'll run, you're good. If they won't run,
they're going to.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Your big loose brush piles are good place. Sometimes it's
hard to get rabbits out, to get them to participate fully.
But if you've got a big loose brush pile, that's
good places to go.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Okay, Scott Carling, you had some questions too about steal
shot and size of shot, and in that regard, uh
yeah it w.

Speaker 6 (24:48):
W n A yeah it.

Speaker 5 (24:50):
There are several w m as now, not all of them,
but there's several that requires if you're going to small
game hunt in general, you've got to use a non
toxic shot and it steel and lead work really are
only two options there for a number of years. Now
there's a much more expensive alternative with both business and TSS.

(25:15):
And not that you have to have those things to
go out and hunt squirrels and rabbits, but it is
part of the regulations. Like I've got to head over
to Clark's River WMA here in just a few days
to do a hunt, and part of the thing of
hunting over there is to have a non toxic shot
and you've.

Speaker 6 (25:36):
Got to have a permit.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
And I think it's important that folks realize a lot
of shotguns are pulled out when it comes to go
rabbit hunting. You've got somebody that may go rabbit hunting
once or twice a year that may just put out
their general purpose shotgun, and you've got folks that have
a dedicated rabbit gun, and it just always seems like

(26:00):
folks tend to over choke their gun and uh, and
sometimes they they don't put as much into the thought
process of selecting a good shotgun shell like they do
maybe a turkey load or a deer bullet.

Speaker 6 (26:14):
And I just think.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
That it's important that folks know that that that bismuth
is is a good alternative.

Speaker 6 (26:20):
I like it much better than steel.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
I agree with you on that one hundred percent. It
is a much better alternative than steel. It's just not
everybody's going to spend that forty five dollars a box.
But you can take your steel shot with a twenty
six inch barrel and just drop your choke from improved
cylinder to modified and uh, and you can do well
with steel. You don't have the distance killing, but you

(26:46):
can you can still kill them in a twenty twenty
five yard area.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
YEP, I personally hate steel.

Speaker 7 (26:54):
I'm not gonna lie sad, but you know, ultimately, when
you do to steal, you you had an upsize you're
shot from.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
If you don't want to do six, you want to
do seven.

Speaker 7 (27:05):
Still to be equivalent, So keep that in mind if
you're going to do that. But ultimately business is great.
I just think some people probably truly can't afford it.
You know, just a lot of people that can'ts it.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
It's expressive when when you get in and around these
different habitats and things and it comes.

Speaker 6 (27:25):
To your your small game hunting.

Speaker 5 (27:28):
How do you all feel about folks that maybe would
run into to squirrels or quail if they're out hunting.
What's your theory as being the houndsman that you are
whenever you're out on a rabbit hunting and other game
comes up? How do you feel about hunters taking aim

(27:50):
at at different game? And the other thing is is
how do you feel as houndsmen hunting with folks that
don't have a lot of experience hunting in and around dogs.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
On the shooting of quail and squirrel? We're kind of
if we've got Josh and I do a whole lot
of hunting and encourage people to bring their kids one
It gets them off the computer and gets them off
their phone, gets them out in nature. So we can
all appreciate that. We give a safety talk at the beginning,
so everybody understands the concept of hunting around hounds that

(28:23):
there'll be more rabbits, but there will not be another
really great dog to chase that rabbit if he gets shot.
When it comes to squirrel and quail, if I've got
kids and the dogs are away from us, and if
they want to shoot a squirrel, by all means shoot
that squirrel because it gets them interested quail. I have
no issue shooting quail at any time, long it's end season.

(28:45):
It doesn't Our dogs do not bark off on quail,
and coil is pretty good table fair, and we really
don't have a big issue with quail. There's just not
very many of them in the state.

Speaker 7 (28:58):
They might say, we hunted Allida state in the mount
of quill we see now from let's say, from now
to twenty years ago, it's a big, big difference. You
used to be able to jump to coved quill on
a farm, you know, when I was a kid. Nowadays,
if we do get into covey, it's not very many
birds at all, you know, but of course a lot
of them do run on the ground. You may not

(29:19):
see period, But ultimately we haven't seen a big coved
quill for a long time in Kentucky.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:26):
And before we cut out and go to break, if
if folks want to have.

Speaker 6 (29:32):
One thing that they can do.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
On their farm to help improve the habitat for all game,
but especially rabbits, is there's nothing wrong with bush hoog
in your fields and your pastures if you're going to
let them set idle, but just pick the time of
year to do it. And if at all possible, if
you can get away without mowing your field for the

(29:54):
whole year annually, only mowing once a year, please do that,
even if you don't do any type of small game hunting,
because you can find somebody and it takes a whole
lot less diesel fuel or gas and a lot less
to work on that bush hog to mow that property
down at the end of the year in February even

(30:14):
early March, right before that big dreen up. And it
gives us a lot of good habitat, not just for rabbits.
But man, it sure is nice to show up on
a farm and it's so rare these days that hadn't
been bush hogged all year.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yes, sir, all right, I got to go to break here.
This break is presented by SMI Marine again. They will
be closed for the holidays this week. That reopen on
the twelfth of January, and they're pointing towards the Boat,
RV and Sports Show which is right around the corner,
and they'll be showing some new smoker craft boats they've

(30:52):
taken on the smoker Craft lining and editions or others.
So I just want to put the word out there
and we'll be back right after this. Wells, we've been
talking about different types of cover when we left out.
Won't seez grab spots, you know those kinds of things.
What are your thoughts on that? And some of them

(31:13):
are so big you can't only get a rabbit out
of them. I've run into that. I'm sure you have too,
But what are your thoughts? I'll tell you right now.
Those can be very tough to hunt. Ultimately, here's the deal.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
You got to slow down, take a step back, and
move extra slow, and you can hunt a big square
and not jump a rabbit. But when you turn around
a hunt it back again, then they may score it out.
But also, being thick enough, like you're talking about there,
you won't know if you jump a rabbit unless you
stop about every third step and listen because then you

(31:46):
can hear one take off at that point. Otherwise, if
you're just walking moving, you'll never know if you jump
one or not because.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
You won't hear or see it. Right.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Okay, Scott, you had some question about chunks too, Scott.

Speaker 5 (31:59):
Grown, Well, it's just going back to that non toxic
shot in the terrain that you're in hunting.

Speaker 6 (32:09):
It's just it's really important.

Speaker 5 (32:12):
It was good talking about bringing those kids out on
the hunt. That's one of the things over the years
I can say with rabbit hunting is it doesn't seem
too hard if you get on the ringer to pick
it up and coffee people. Everybody's always willing to go
on a good rabbit hunt. It's it's kind of like
waterfowl hunting. If if there's a good group of people

(32:34):
going and they know that there may be a little
food involved before afterwards that a lot of times you
can have more blaze orange at the back of.

Speaker 6 (32:42):
The truck than really what you need.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
But the it's just you hunt so much and you
try to get out with people and not that harvesting
game is the most important part of it. But when
you do get a rabbit up and you're in c
and there are things called property lines, and you can
only hunt a spot so hard or so many times.

(33:06):
It just seems more times than not, people are way
over choked and they don't practice shooting fast or scenarios,
or they don't take the time to get on their gun.
There's a big connection between turkey hunting and missing birds. Well,
there's a big connection a lot of times with rabbits
and people not getting down on their gun real well,

(33:27):
and just you know, I want to encourage folks that
if you have to keep a keep a gun, choke
patch whatever around with you. But more times than not,
people are it just seems like they're they're way over choking,
or they don't take into consideration getting out there with
an improved or modified in the terrain that they're going

(33:48):
to be hunting in fellas.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Your choke ideas perty similar for me.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Yeah, we Josh and I both unimproved cylinder with lead
and then we go to modifyed with steel and we encourage,
you know, people we run across to do the same
because you've got a lot of people if they don't
rabbit hunt like we do, which is all over all
the time, they don't even give it a thought. They
just pick up the shotgun a and head to the

(34:17):
field and we try to we try to help them.
It's a little easier to hit them with improved you
don't tear them up as bad. Just just all around benefit.

Speaker 7 (34:25):
And also one more thing is they're not always easy
to kill them. They're sometimes they're tough, they hit they're fast.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Oh yeah, fellas talk about shooting rabbits on the jump
with dogs because there's a lot of etiquette there, there's
safety factors there, you know, I want your those thoughts
about that.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
We do not shoot rabbits on the jump with our
dogs out there.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Now.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
We have hunted in different states with friends and different
people that that's all they know and understand is to
shoot in the jump. And we can't tell them not
to shoot them the jump in their home turf, but
we'll have them hunt a little away from us, and
you know, chances of dogs circle on rabbit to them

(35:14):
are still there. But then also if they jump on,
they can shoot it if they choose. But we we're
out there, you know for the camaraderie and especially for
the dogs as we love to hear the you know,
the dogs blow, blow out of the grass and take
off and then you know, bring them back and watch
them work and you know, bond with them, watch them
get better.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
Josh, you had a thought there. I agree totally.

Speaker 7 (35:37):
I love personally, I love getting in the thickets, the
nasty briars with the dogs, like setting people up a
lot of times. Josh is a good dogs and getting
to know your dogs. This is another thing, is because
I can tell body language on the dogs a lot
of times before they jump the rabbit, before it's up,
all yelling out, get ready and then boom, dog hits

(36:01):
it's over. You know, But just knowing your dogs that
will just by body language, you can tell when you're
running jump tail starts flavoring her hard excited yeah, and
you can tell it's about to be on.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
So okay cool.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Uh Again with the U the chokes and whatnot, the
w m A Hunts is just a little bit testy,
is it really?

Speaker 3 (36:24):
With the steal is and we're gonna talk here.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Later in the program about how stuffs find places to hunt,
how the seasons are short, and it's really a lot
of a lot of challenges out there that most people
wouldn't think. You got you and Uh, it's got to
travel a lot to rab your hunt. Uh, y'all just
got back from an unbelievable trip to Kansas.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Uh, talk about that a little bit for folks that
you don't have dogs and maybe looking for a different experience.

Speaker 7 (36:54):
And we'll go to Kansas twice a year, right, And
one of the as we go is because you know,
in Kentucky it's kind of harder to find as many
opportunities nowadays with all the deer hunts and all that
stuff for your regular season. But Kansas has been really
good to us and it's something that would probably always

(37:15):
do to a day also, So you know, what do
you think, Scott?

Speaker 4 (37:20):
Well, with Kansas, we go out there. Our second trip
will be the third week ind of February, which our
season here even in the Western Zone closes February tenth, right,
so it's another opportunity to go hunt. And we take
our first trip the Thanksgiving weekend because everybody that loves
to rabbit hunt gets out. The WMA's are full. There's

(37:43):
generally deer season still going on, depends on how the
calendar falls. This year it was not, but generally it is.
Five out of seven years it is gets us away
from the crowds here. You don't run into a lot
of pressure out there. Not a lot of hunters and
as long as you don't interfere with their deer season,
knock on doors, you know, take a country ham, you know,

(38:06):
take a fifth of bourbon. They don't a lot of
the bourbon that we have here. They can't get there.
They've seen it, they've heard about it. But it'll get
you in on a farm.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Okay, And you all have huge bags out there.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
We do we kill. I think our last time we
killed upward of fifty and easily easily could have been seventy.
But you know, I said, we don't. We don't jump
shoot them. You know, we're out there for the dogs,
and we don't hunt exactly from daylight till dark. We'll
get out there at eight, eight thirty one, hunt till
two thirty or three, and you know, call.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
It a day.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
Some days we've quit before lunch and had tremendous bags
of rabbits that we put on the tailgate. In one
of the advantage out there, it's a lot of crop land,
so rabbits are confined to your waterways, your fence line,
and your briar patches if you find the red thron briars,

(39:04):
so you don't have to hunt as much there as
you do here to get more rabbits.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Okay, In other words, they're thicker.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
Yeah, the linen in Kansas ten per day. Yeah, cool
as opposed to our four.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Let's talk about I call it you going to college
swamp rabbits. You guys love to hunt them as well?

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, we do, We do love them. That's a different
animal too. Also, you have to go to western Kentucky
to find them.

Speaker 7 (39:33):
I think beaver Dam may be as far as east
as you can run across. The swamp rabbit possibly, but
definitely something different. When you start to really dive into
these things and realize that they'll swim, that's what will
throw you off more than anything on a batt rabbit,
these swamp rabbits, because just see them when swim is
something you don't expect much.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Pratan the other got web feet.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
I know they live, and we we.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Hunt the swamp rabbits.

Speaker 6 (40:01):
We love them.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
I think they taste just a little bit more sweet
than our eastern cottontails. We hunt around Ohio. Mehlenburg Hopkins
as the first pocket then later in the season we
move on down to hunt graves. Marshall callaway anywhere along
the river. God watch you duck hunters. You don't try

(40:24):
to stay away from you duck hunter guys down there,
because I understand they want to hunt too.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Sure, God, Coroner, that's down in your neck of the woods,
and I know you do a good bit of that
with your fellows you hunt with down there. Any tips
you'd like to pass along to the audience about that.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
There's just a swamp rabbits, just a totally different species
of animal. That's as easy as I can say it.
There's a lot of folks that kill a big cottontail
sometimes and call it a swamp rabbit.

Speaker 6 (40:54):
It's not the cover and the sign. It's just it's
just a different art.

Speaker 5 (41:01):
We could do a whole two hour program over over
that rabbit.

Speaker 6 (41:05):
But there is a there.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
There seems to be a lot of potential old a
rabbit hunt. Once you get past Etown by thirty five
forty five minutes down the road, there's any folks that
have dogs and want to get out and try their luck,
There's there is a tremendous amount of opportunity to get

(41:28):
on some ground that is not tied up as much
with the land leasing and it I think it's a
it's a good challenge of you know, listening the to
Scott and Josh. I mean, just because a set of
dogs that ran through a particular piece of property, whether
it's private or public, that doesn't mean that all the

(41:49):
rabbits were shot up and and taken. I think there's
definitely a little bit of a bragging point when it
comes to a man in his in his group of hounds,
pack of hounds on how well they can hunt. And
it seems that more than anything, it's I think the
key to hunting a lot of the public ground is

(42:10):
the right weather conditions. And I'd like to have Scott
and Josh talk to that about when is the best
time to put your dogs on the ground.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Well, we look, we are big believers in watching the
barometric pressure. If that pressure is rising, rabbits will tend
to hold tighter. If you get that combination, and Jim
knows what I'm saying here, the wind out of the
east and the barometric pressure rising, rabbits are not going
to participate fully and it makes it extremely challenging. They

(42:43):
not only they not participate, by not being out. The
ones that are out tend to not run as efficiently
as normal.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Well, the dogs have trouble of scent conduction.

Speaker 7 (42:55):
And conditions because big Also, you never know what you're
going to get into out there. Rabbit, the sink conditions
can play a big roll and it sometimes, you know,
you can put dogs on a rabbit. It's almost like
they can't hardly smell it to take off with it.
We've been through those days too.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Frost.

Speaker 7 (43:12):
We like to at least wait a little bit later
to get going on hard frost, you know, in the morning.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Sometimes that helps us out a whole lot. How about snow?
What are your thoughts on that? It no matter how
you how you look at it, you want no tea
try yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
If it's a hard frozen snow, it's tough. It's tough
because it doesn't give the scent like a wet snow does.
But you get a snow spun on ground for a
couple of days and then it's warmed up thirty four degrees,
get out there about nine o'clock. They're under a magnifying
glass because they just they don't have it's it's really
not fair to hunt a rabbit in snow because he's brown,

(43:48):
it's white. He sticks out like a sore thumb. The
dogs are running and you can see from one hundred
yards off.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, and you know.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
It's worth you. You look up without snow and there
it goes. Yeah, you're just missed them. Back back to
a point in the swamp rabbits. You take a pack
of dogs and you put them in a swamp. If
it's a true swamp, it's got the sleughs, it's got
the wet marshy land, it's got your your reeds. Not

(44:14):
not all dogs can perform well on that. You'll have
dogs get stuck on the wrong side of the slough
and that can be its own challenge trying to get
that dog to come back the swamp. Rabbitence do not
hesitate to hit the water and swim, and yuh young.
We don't take our young dogs into the swamp ever
until they get about three years on them. That way

(44:35):
they're mature and they mind really good. Then you can
lose a dog swamp raver.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Okay, let me go to a quick break here.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Coming back, uh, Scott and I want to talk to
you guys about a big problem that's land leasing and
the season frameworks that we have in the state of Kentucky,
and Josh, I know you got a lot of figures
that you want to go over about season frameworks other
states around us.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
It's always been something that makes me scratch my head
real hard because if.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
You feed dogs, you you know, we observed an opportunity
to put them on the ground boats. All right, I'm
gonna go to break It's presented by SMI Marine. Remember
they closed for the holidays. I reopened on the twelfth
of January and they will be at the Boat RV
and Sports Show.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
The show dates or the twenty eighth.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Of January to February first, and they will be in
booth one zero three Z whether that's ten thirty.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
All right, we'll be back right after this got cornin.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
You and I talk about this a lot off air,
and it's something that's I think needs to be aired out.
And that is how fellas like Josh and Scott Smith
here are boxed out on a lot of hunting opportunity
because of a variety of reasons. Land Lee singing season dates. Uh, fellas,

(46:03):
I'm gonna let you will with that.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
Okay. Every year opening day we go to a wm
A and that's our first opening hunt. We get in
there before everybody else does. And on the back side
of that we go in January. If you can hunt
a w bay in January and jump rabbits, then you've
got good dogs because it's been panting, there's pass everywhere.

(46:28):
They're pounded. But this year we were not able to
hunt opening weekend on the wm A because of the
quota hunts. It's close to everything but the quota hunts,
and then you contend with the rifle season, and you've
got the two day rifle season coming up next weekend

(46:48):
after Christmas for the youth, and I want the youth
to get out there by all means, not against that
at all. Then you you know black Powder season. They've
made it longer. You know, it's nine days now instead
of just seven like it was. Of the ninety days
the East Zone has to rabbit hunt. We only have

(47:10):
twelve days that doesn't overlap with some type of deer season,
and we've only got sixty five days of that where
there's no guns involved, and it makes it tough for us.
And I'm not against the deer hunters, but our deer
season is it's pushing the small game hunters out Josh.

Speaker 7 (47:31):
Every state that borders Kentucky. Third rabbit season runs through February.
Every single state that borders us ours doesn't. We're already
cut back a very short amount of time to rabbit hunt.
For one, my thing is, why can't we just take
the rabbit season, since we already deer hunt.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
Too, move it back past dun season.

Speaker 7 (47:49):
Where we don't miss that part of our rabbit season
or Thanksgiving at least something like that, to try to
give us the most bang.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
For our buck.

Speaker 7 (47:57):
You know, that's one of the reasons we go out
of state the hunt a lot. Because of the season's here,
we have to work around.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
What are the season dates and limits on some of
these other states out from top to bottom?

Speaker 7 (48:10):
Missouri October first through February fifteenth, six a day on
rabbits one hundred and thirty seven days. Third season, East
Ill't noise one hundred and seven days November first through
February fifteenth, four per day. Indiana's a one hundred and
twenty days, five rabbits per day up there, Ohio's one

(48:30):
hundred and thirteen days, and they do also have a
two day you season for rabbit hunting up there four
per day in Ohio West Virginia I know for sure
is no better than us as far as rabbits go.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
I've been there.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
They have one hundred twenty day season November first through
February twenty eighth. Five per day there Virginia six rabbits
a day, one hundred twenty day season. Tennessee five per day,
one hundred and twenty day season November first through twenty eighth.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
So your thought basically are you know deer hunt's going
to be what it is, but you would love to
see the season run later after the deer seasons are out.

Speaker 7 (49:10):
Absolutely, we miss a month of hunting anyway, because we
also deer hunt during gun season and all that, so
and to keep our dogs out of the woods. With
people that do deer hunt, it's really more of a
hazard than anything, and we're just missing out on time
that we should be able to get.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Personally, I think.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
It's I had heard in the past wildlife has said,
well it's because of breeding. Well I no longer buy
into that, because every state that touches US seasons run
longer than us, north, South, East, and West, so it
can't just be breeding. Exclusive to Kentucky. Right, we've killed
rabbits in western Kentucky up to February tenth, when it closes.

(49:52):
I have yet in the state of Kentucky to kill
a rabbit with little ones in it February tenth.

Speaker 7 (49:59):
If they want to give it ninety days, why not
just moving back a little forrest week in our forum,
tim In, I believe get that extra time.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
In well in February it can be some will you
get hunt it can? Yes, you know I hunt squirrels
in February. Hilf hundred rabbits in February, and it's a
It's just a great thing to be able to get
out there and know you're not interfering right with the
deer hunters, because, like you said, you guys hunt deer too.
It's not like your prejudice against deer hunters. Scott Crohen,

(50:28):
you got any thoughts about that.

Speaker 5 (50:31):
I'm sitting here trying to be a good listener, but
the people that need to listen aren't listening. That's that's
an important thing that I just said right there. The hunters,
the license holders are telling people and administrative rows what
we would like to see, and they don't listen. I

(50:55):
think when it comes to the title biologist, I think
in today's world we need to really evaluate what is
a biologist, what qualifies somebody to be a biologist?

Speaker 6 (51:09):
Because I live back in the woods.

Speaker 5 (51:14):
You see, it goes to your song and of opening
up the intro every week, Jim, there's a lot of
country boys that's still pack of shotgun that are now
grown men, and we know what we know. No hunter
is ever going to do anything to not help the

(51:36):
natural resource. Like we're past those days of meat hunting.
We're past those days of where uh, you know, poaching
and the negative perspective of hunting is brought to the spot.
Like rabbit hunters, deer hunters, turkey hunters, they want what's
best for the species that they hunt. And here you've

(51:57):
got two grown men who have a tremend this amount
of knowledge of traveling in multiple states, who are deer
hunters who are trying to help control the deer density
because deer density has.

Speaker 6 (52:08):
Everything in the world.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
To go back to this ecosystem and the rabbit habitat.
Listen to what your houndsman and your small game hunters
are saying.

Speaker 6 (52:21):
When commissioners get.

Speaker 5 (52:24):
A phone call from a die hard lifelong rabbit hunter
or a turkey hunter, or a deer hunter or an
elk outfitter.

Speaker 6 (52:32):
And we're telling you that things need to change or things.

Speaker 5 (52:34):
Could be better, to get more people involved and to
make the sport available to people.

Speaker 6 (52:44):
Listen.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
I mean, that's the whole point of going out and
rabbit hunting behind a group of dogs, isn't It is
just to hear them whimpers and wines in that bark.
And I mean that sound that you hear when a
pack of dogs is running on a hot rabbit. You
can't replace that.

Speaker 6 (53:03):
That is a magistic golden sound. I mean it is.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
If that doesn't make the hair on your neck stand
up and put a good, warm, fuzzy feeling in your heart.

Speaker 6 (53:14):
Something's wrong with you.

Speaker 5 (53:16):
And to watch those dogs excitement, you know, when they
get to you know, see the rabbit after it's been harvested.

Speaker 6 (53:24):
It's so important.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
But it's heritage in tradition and when when hunters are
out in the field, and I do believe that hunters
are in the field enough, probably more so than some
licensed biologists. When they're telling you that we need to
move things or change things or make things work, please
take it to the point that we're we're coming to

(53:47):
negotiate to make things better. And I don't know if
people are listening to what we have to say. And
I'm sure Scott and Josh can extend their.

Speaker 6 (53:59):
Thoughts on this.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
But when we have problems with how the season days run,
and when we have being able to get access to
land because so much out of state hunting that's taking
place with land leasing, there's a reason why we see
a decline and hunter numbers.

Speaker 6 (54:20):
It's because there's a decline and opportunity.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Absolutely, I mean the number one reason that people quit hunting,
and this has been documented time and again is lack
of access. And then the secondary thing is you kind
of let us hunt, you know. And to your off point,
I've hunted rabbits up into February on the western part,

(54:44):
never sol any problems with it. I've never killed a
break at rabbit either, and I've been chasing them critters
a long long time.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
All right, you got to go to break here.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
This break is presented by asking my Marie, don't forget
they're closed during the holidays. I reopened on the twelfth
of January. You and Josh are beg into field trialing
and that extends the season. You get to do a
lot of stuff with kids. And you all give me
some facts that kind of blew my mind about the

(55:13):
number of trials in the state of Kentucky and what
goes on there. Let's change goods and talk about that,
saus that's a great part of the sport too.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
Josh and I we belong to Kentucky River Bialle Club.
I'm the president, Josh is the master of hounds. It's
a club through the organization of the National Kennel Club
slash American Rabbit hot Associations. The base out of Blaine, Tennessee.
Our club is located in Pleasureville, Kentucky at six twenty
five Main Street. We do field trials there. We have

(55:44):
some coming up March fourteenth and March fifteenth, our next ones.
Invite anybody wants to come out and see how field
trial works. Come on out if you want to learn
about it, we'll take the time to teach you. We
have found that field trialing gives you a no their
avenue to spend with your hound. A lot of you've
got some rabbit hunters that they don't have the time

(56:05):
to do it. Perhaps, and they rabbit hunt and they
put the dog in the kennel for most of the year.
This keeps your dogs out and about on the ground
in shape. You get more use out of them. As
a matter of fact, that's how Josh and I met
was through field trial and you meet some fantastic people.
You get to correspond and work with kids, and it's

(56:28):
it's a great avenue to introduce kids to beagles. There's
a lot of things that kids can do. We have
bench shows at all of our clubs across the state
and you can access that by going to nk C
slash A r h A dot com and click on
a Little Pack. That's what we are. We are the
Little Pack organization and more than happy to have kids

(56:50):
come out. They can bench dogs, you know, you just
you stand your dog up there and the certified judge
judges that dog and it gets kids interested. We have
awards for youth handlers. They have you a special Youth
hunt at our World Hunt just for the youth. So
we are very very kid friendly and if anybody has

(57:14):
any questions, I'd be glad to give my number at
the end of the show and you can reach out
to me or reach out to Josh and we can
help answer questions about field trotting.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Yeah, we'll definitely do that, and we'll give Facebook information
and stuff here the end of the show, Josh, from
your aspect, I know you love it.

Speaker 7 (57:32):
Like I say, it's just another avenue to keep your
dogs in shape. The camaraderie, there's another thing I like
about it. More or less little bragger mice between you
and your buddies. But it's competitions for the dogs more
or less to see. We judge them, you know, by score,
you know, and it is definitely something if you haven't
done it before. Some people may like it, some people

(57:52):
may not, but it's definitely something that if you've never
tried it, you know, give it a try, you know.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Talk a little bit about how they score the dogs trout.
We run each dog in five to six stell casts.
We go out for one hour.

Speaker 7 (58:07):
Everything's scored, you know, with one hour time limit, and
and we do as far as when the dogs get
out there and work. You know, there's different ways to score.
You know, there's a strike jump, they get points. You
can also min us out if you are on the clock.
You know, if your dog marks three times you're on
the clock. You got three minutes to produce a rabbit
or else dead track, we minus you out.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
You get a minus ten at a minute. Basically.

Speaker 7 (58:35):
Other than that, it's it's pretty easy going and a
lot of people will probably enjoyed doing it if they
haven't tried to yet.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
About how many trial areas are in Kentucky, you have
a feel for it.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Yeah, we have over fifty clubs in the state.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
They range from eastern Kentucky to western Kentucky, northern Kentucky
all the way down to around dale Hall Lake. So
it's it's not hard to find a club you if
you have an interest, they're all around you.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Do you, fellows, travel to those clubs to compete. We do. Yes.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
The way it's set up, your dog starts out as
an open. It has to have a win at a
club hunt and attain one hundred points. Then it moves
to a champion. As a champion, that dog has to
have five wins to become a Grand Grand as high
as you can go. But in the champions only two
wins can come from your home club. So with that

(59:29):
being said, the way our format is set up, you
have to travel to propress your dog, so it's self
sustaining by helping each other.

Speaker 7 (59:38):
I see you have to accumulate so many points for
away clubs. So what are the season parameters for traveling if.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
They go on year long?

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Yep, for the most part, generally June July, August. Not
very many, just because of the heat and the rattlesnakes
in the South and the east. But they feel trials yesterday.
We don't go to them during the rabbit season. If
I can pack a shotgun, I'm packing a shotgun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Yes, sir, I totally understand that. I sure just got growning.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Well.

Speaker 5 (01:00:16):
I guess the thing that comes to my mind is
I go back to the beginning of the program, and
you all talked about how you like to keep your
genetics and your training and your dogs close to home,
and I would like for you all to talk and.

Speaker 6 (01:00:33):
Share a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
Over the years, it seems like pedigrees and paperwork and
all that stuff sometimes gets a little bit too much importance.
What I'm going to call like coffee, shot, biscuit and
gravy talking. I mean, to me, a dog can hunt
or it can't hunt. And then a lot of it
goes to how well, the dogs are taken care of.

(01:00:56):
And probably if there's one question or one comment that
I hear amongst aging hunters, it's how they wish they
had a pack of dogs again, or how they wish
they had a you know, a good set of hands.
So tell us and explain what is the difference between
the blood, the paper, the pedigree, the training.

Speaker 6 (01:01:17):
Like you know, when you go to.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
These trials, you know, what is it that's letting you
all see that your dogs are doing good or somebody
else's dogs are doing really good.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
We'll take it. I'll go first up. I'll put it
to you this way.

Speaker 7 (01:01:31):
Ultimately, I never owned a dog with papers until you know,
my later years when I was in the starter field trayning.
Honestly everything I almost great. Didn't really know what all
that pedigree stuff was. But to answer your question, the
dog's only going to be as good as what you
put into it. That's just a fact. Whatever you put
into that dog is what you're gonna get out of it,

(01:01:52):
bottom line. And but you can breed what you want
to with it, and a lot of times you don't
get what you think is gonna come out of it
in return.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
You know, that's another thing about it.

Speaker 7 (01:02:02):
But bottom line is this, It's only going to be
as good as what you put into it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
There's two type of dogs. You have field trial dogs
and you have rabbit dogs. Rabbit dogs can go to
field trials and be competitive. I have rabbit dogs. I've
never won a big hunt. I've placed well in some
state and won several local hunts. But field trial dogs
tend to be generally a little wilder, a little wider hunting,

(01:02:31):
a little far reaching. It's where rabbit dogs. You know,
we're out there to hunt. I want to keep my
dogs close. So a dog that reaches and gets out
more generally has a better chance at jumping a rabbit
and getting ahead of you because he reaches than dogs
that hunt close pedigrees. All my dogs right now happy

(01:02:54):
to be AKC for no other reason than they just
happened to be AKC if it was a great dog
and it does what I want fantastic. I do a
lot of my breeding. One big advantage of field trialing
is you get to see these different dogs out there,

(01:03:14):
and a dog can be a fantastic field trial dog
but may not have the characteristics that I ur Josh
look for to breeding our dogs too, and some of
Southern d I don't mean I'm not down in field
trial dogs by any means, but it's just it's a
good format to see what a dog is doing versus

(01:03:35):
what the pedigree says.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
You were talking earlier too about how a lot of
these groups will get together, and I know that I
get around southern Illinois and central Illinoise quite a bit,
and some areas up and around northern Kentucky. There there's
a lot of you see, you know, bigel clubs, you
got your Coon Hunters Club.

Speaker 6 (01:03:58):
You've got your squirrel dog people.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
And where's where's the health of of the of the
beagle clubs right now and and how they're doing and
what parts of the state are they more predominant than.

Speaker 6 (01:04:12):
Others Right now?

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
With our organization at the nk C, there are more
clubs in central and eastern Kentucky than there are in
northern and western Kentucky. They're heavier there, but we are
just one branch of the amount of bugle clubs. You've
got the American Bugle Club coming on. You've got the
Professional Kennel Club the PKC coming on, and those those

(01:04:36):
two organizations I have not ran them. I have friends
that do, and I have I keep up with them.
They run for money and it can it can get
into big money, just like the night hunts for the
coon hounds that they have. Now ours we're we're running
for points and trophies and you can get some breeding

(01:04:57):
out of it if your dog does well and somebody
likes what you have. But the health of the organization
of all of them is really good right now, it
is really growing. We do need more young people to
get involved. That's why I was so eager to give
out my phone number and hopefully somebody is listening, because
we always try to bring in new young talent, especially

(01:05:18):
kids and especially young houndowners. It broadens a spectrum for
them and it helps our organization.

Speaker 7 (01:05:25):
I agree with what you said to Scott, but ultimately,
Phil trowling along will not survive when we don't have
younger people get involved. We judge these little packed you know,
dogs on foot, that's how we judge them. Was for
them and without any younger people getting involved in this,
it's just not gonna last. And that's what we ultimately

(01:05:46):
need is more young people to help out.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Scott, you had a question about pricing Scott Croning.

Speaker 6 (01:06:00):
Okay, what about the price on dogs these days? What
are you seeing dogs selling for?

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
As far as you know, pups versus some dogs that
got a little bit of experience that are conditioned and
actually trained.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
Right now, A good A good price on pups can
run anywhere from three hundred all the way up to
seven hundred dollars a pup depending upon the breeding and
you know whether it's AKC or whether it's great or
what organization it's with. And then if you want to
if you want to get a rock star dog, which
I said, I've had the privilege only one in my life.

(01:06:38):
I mean, you're you're talking about dogs over five thousand dollars.
You can get a lot of mid range dogs for
you know, one thousand to two thousand. But it's you
can spend as much as you have to spend and
not always get what you want. That's why I do
my own thing and try to raise my all my
own dogs, because if they don't turn out and after

(01:07:00):
I've worked with them, but it's on me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Josh, you got any thoughts about that?

Speaker 7 (01:07:06):
Ultimately, like I said, we just our dogs. We use
and breed with what's in our circle. You know, we
don't venture outside of that very far at all. Whatever
we got is what we breed with them, what we're
gonna own in the future, and as far as we're going.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Okay, all right, well, I'm gonna take a quick break
here and we're gonna talk about eating some rabbits.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Coming back from break and share some recipes. All right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
This break is presented by Mancile Properties Heart Realty. Check
out all the current listenings at m O p h
A r trealty dot com. All right, fellas, Uh, anybody
killed as many rabbits as you do, you gotta have
some recipes. And Scott Cronan, I know you got some

(01:07:50):
grave ones. We'll share with the audience as well. Uh,
Scott Smith, I'll start.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
With you, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:07:56):
My favorite one is, uh, just make your basic broccoli
casserole recipe. That's what you start with. And the night
before I'll put a bunch of I backed my front
legs separately, so I put them in the crockpot. And
just like you would have a chicken or anything else,
you know, throw you in a Bayley, throw you in

(01:08:17):
an onion, however you like to season it, let it
cook in the crockpot. Then take it out, strain it
and debone it, and then take that cooked rabbit and
put that in your brocola castrole. And we call it
a rabbit divine and it's actually.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Doing an excellent rabbit dumplings recip he does.

Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
Well, it's kind of the same way as the UH
as the rabbit divine. You know, instead of using your chicken,
use your rabbit in the dumplings. And we use the
hind legs for that because you get the bigger chunks
of meat with it, and uh mix it in your dumples,
make it, make your dumplings just like you're gonna make
chicken and dumplings. Insert rabbit and it's it's good too.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
And do you cook them in the slow cooking.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
Too, cook them when the crop bought the same way.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Now, how about the swampers deep fed backstrips.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
Yeah, that's the way to go with them. We peel
out the backstrips just like you would on a deer,
and you know, seize them up, flower them and drop
them into hot all it'll change your life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
All right, Scott Croning, I know you got all kind
of little recipes there, and we're getting in the holidays,
lay some honors.

Speaker 6 (01:09:32):
Man.

Speaker 5 (01:09:32):
My favorite way is to just use lipt and onion
soup mix with squirrel and rabbit and just let.

Speaker 6 (01:09:40):
It cook into it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
Falls off the bone and you really don't have to
shred it. It's in nice tender pieces. And I'm a
big cilantro and pico and sour cream and cheese kind
of guy.

Speaker 6 (01:09:52):
I know it's gonna surprise you, Jim.

Speaker 5 (01:09:54):
So if you all see Scott drop, y'all see Jim
fill out of the chair picking up.

Speaker 6 (01:10:01):
I like him street tacos with my rabbits.

Speaker 5 (01:10:04):
And a few years ago some of the Kentucky BHA
crew brought in some shredded rabbit and then added to
some Coast law and barbecue sauce and put it on
a Hamburger bun, and man it was it was really good.

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):
There's no bad way to fix a rabbit.

Speaker 5 (01:10:23):
But probably the most unique way that I have found.

Speaker 6 (01:10:27):
It's a fan favorite, is just a fright in.

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
And to skillet and then put that into a crock
pot with whatever you want as far as your water
and flower content, but enough to where that's actually gonna
break down your crust from frying. It breaks down and
it makes kind of like a small dumpling and let
that soap in the crock pot until it falls off

(01:10:53):
the bone again, and it more or less makes a
gravy in the crock pot for you, and just you know,
some fresh biscuits and green beans, whatever you got to
go with it. I don't know if there's a bad
way to eat a rabbit, I really don't. It's just unfortunately,
in today's society, we live in a world where if

(01:11:18):
you go out and kill what you eat, some people
think that it's weird. But rabbit and squirrels kept the
many people fed and provided protein to them on their table.
And probably more important than talking about rabbit hunting Jim
Scott and Josh is that don't just expose young people

(01:11:40):
to the sport. Try to expose them to eat and game.
And it's not always the best scenario to let the
process the game. Sometimes it's better to bring them the
final product first and if they like it, say hey,
how about you go out here in the field with
us and cheot a few with us.

Speaker 6 (01:12:00):
And then we'll teach you how to make that's that's
the on the sport is it's a big picture.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
All right, guys, how to folks contact you all.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
You can reach me. My name is Scott Smith. Phone
number is area code five zero two seven seven seven
six two one six, and I'll be glad to discuss
about rabbit hunting. If you've got a family farm, you
want to take some young ones to be glad, to
be glad to go with you talk about field triling.
I'm I'm just always here to help as a resource.

Speaker 7 (01:12:34):
Josh Bramble five O two two eight seven nine seven
four three. You can find both of us on Facebook
or the Kentucky River Big Old Club page on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
Also, we can uh get you there too, So.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
The Kentucky River Big Club Big Club on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
And uh you all real big on kids?

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
I know that, yes, Uh talk about how many kids
come to some of these.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
The last event we had we had it was one
hundred and twenty seven kids from I think it was
twenty seven counties.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Geez, whez that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Okay, Well, that gives people a flavor how big this
really is. Hey, I appreciate you guys coming on with us.
It has been a fun show for me. All right, folks
got to get out of here again. Merry Christmas, Happy holidays,
God bless everybody,