3-2-25 - Talk turkey with Mike Pentecost

On tonight's show, Jim and Scott "talk turkey" with Mike Pentecost, owner of Woodhaven Custom Calls.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:44):
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Speaker 2 (01:00):
Good evening, every one. Jim Straighter Here. My co host
Scott Kroner and Scott, we got a great program lined
up for folks tonight. We're talking with a turkey hunting icon.
It's Mike Pentecost with wood Haven Custom Calls and folks,
if you are passionate about turkeys, we've got a gentleman

(01:22):
all with us tonight that Scott I think is going
to do an outstanding job talking about all things turkeys
for us.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Mike Pentecost is a woodsman. He has a tremendous amount
of hunting experience and his character has carried over to
his line of business. What a lot of people know
is the wood Haven Way, but it's to deliver nothing
but a superior product with great customer service. But if

(01:51):
folks are wanting to figure out how to kill a
few more turkeys and become a better turkey hunter, they're
going to be really impressed with what Mike can teach
him tonight. Because there's a few things that you can't
buy there at the local sporting goods store. And we've
got a gentleman on tonight that we'll be able to
capture some of his knowledge over all of the years

(02:12):
and all of his travels to help anybody, no matter
how long they've been hunting or what species they're chasing.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Absolutely, so I'm going to go to break here right
out of the box because we've got obviously tons of
ground to cover with this special guess, so stick with us.
The break is presented by SMI Marine. Get your boat
in there and get it ready for spring fishing. It's
upon us and it's coming fast, and you want to
beat the rush. And remember you'll never get soaked by

(02:41):
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(03:02):
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(03:22):
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(03:45):
five O two eight O two six two to one
or checking him out at Coxforestry dot com. All right,
everybody again, we're talking tonight with Mike Pentecost. He's the
owner of wood Haven Custom Calls. Mike, great to have
you on board. We got so many mutual friends through
the decades here in the industry and delighted to have

(04:08):
you on to talk about our favorite.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Subject, turkeys. Yes, sir, Yeah, yeah, we're glad to be
glad to be in here.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, sir, Mike, if you would tell folks a little
bit about yourself and your passion for turkey hunting and
how you started with Haven and why.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
I'm born and raised a little town called Helping, Alabama
and just got a big national forest here in our
Community of Management area back behind the basically right in
behind our just north of our town and big forest today.

(04:54):
And I just I'm a very simple person and try
to do the best me I can. That's where I
always looked at things. I just try to be the
best I can. I don't worry about what others do
or I always try to help others and try to
be my best, and always try to give the message

(05:16):
to be your best. And I always thought that, you know,
if I wasn't giving my best, the first person I
was cheating was the man in the mirror. And I
always tried to live by that and teach that philosophy
to my kids and kids that coach a lot of
ball and done a lot of things in the neighborhood

(05:37):
and the community, and just grew up a small town
country boy and loved the outdoors and spent a lot
of time in the woods and found a lot of
Soulis there a lot of peace? Yea, that was my
That's kind of where wood even came from. I thought
the wood for my haven. That's where I my creator.

(06:01):
I love the Lord, you know, God send his son
to die for our sins. And I was saved at
a young age, and I've always tried to recommit my life.
I think the Bible tells us to die of self daily,
and that's sometimes hard to do because the devil tries
to get us all strayed and all confused with all

(06:25):
the world is going on, trying to do, you know,
get more, get ahead, do everything that's got to be done.
And uh So anyway, I love the Lord and I
know Jesus Christ is my favor, and I just give
him all praise, armor and glory for all the things
in my life. And and what haven been you know,

(06:46):
definitely one of them. When I started, I started out
as a hobbyist, just kind of tinkering with calls and
different aspects about calling, and uh you know, I just
you know, it's best struggle. Uh But I remember my
granddaddy one day came in in the basement there where

(07:08):
I was, you know, working and stuff, and were talking
and you know, he said, sometimes sport, you just got
to have somebody to hold their hand to you back.
And I thank God just put his hand on me
and just and I don't ever want to feel that hand,
you know, come off of my back that you know
that I feel like if it does, then I want
to listen and change directions with I feel like that

(07:31):
I'm doing what God wants me to do. And and
I try to live a life that's uh supportive of
that and try to give to others. You know, God
tells us too simple phrase that that he wants us
to love him first, and other second and myself last.
And that's not the order that the world is thing
teaches us. But what even I just it started from

(07:56):
my desire to just be the best turkey call guy,
the best turkey hunter. I could be, the best woodsman
I could be, uh, and just to build the best
turkey calls and prop the things that go with turkey calls,
you know out here, crow calls, strikers, mouth calls, anything.

(08:18):
I just tried to always tried to be the best
I could be and put it in a good package
and provide good customer service. And I just think it
was simple values. And I think deep down that's the
values that I had as a person and a man.
And you know, I just think that those values quickly

(08:40):
become a company's values or a small you know, a
small closer held company like we are, and you know
that whatever it is, but it's not all about me.
But I ain't no any stretch of imagination. As I've grown,
you know, I I realized I couldn't do every little thing,
and you know, got a great team that works with

(09:01):
us and and but the biggest thing is we have
to have those same values and make sure I mean out,
you know, our hands on every day and everything myself.
And you know, the biggest thing is we have to
keep those values moving forward and everybody has to understand
that that this is the way we do it. We
talked to with even way and it's got to be

(09:21):
right or it's wrong. There is no gray area. You
either right or you're wrong. And I always want to
be found on the side of doing things right. And
you know, integrity is what you whether you've got to.
Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. And
you know, we just try to do things right. We

(09:43):
we coll calls at our shop, I mean box calls
and pot calls and things that we can build. You know,
you can't run the mouth call all the mouth calls,
but we do have a procedure. And I've been blessed
to have a mind of engineering, and I've been blessed
I have all those little intricacies that may have made

(10:05):
me be a you know, a Turkey guy. And uh
so we but we we test everything at our shop
and if it ain't good enough to go, and then
it don't go and uh and that that shows up
in integrity again of what everybody expects what even to
be at this point. And I'm just I'm blessed and
I'm proud of where we are and what we're doing.

(10:28):
And you know, my granddady a lot of he says,
my granddaddy and my daddy and then taught me or
said over the years. They didn't mean much to me then,
but they do now. But you know, he always said
that it's a sad dog that won't wag it's on tail.
And you know, I just ain't a bragger or anything
like that, but still I want to claim what, oh,

(10:48):
you know that I do. I worked hard and and
and I have a lot of integrity and believing the Lord,
and there's the right way and the wrong way to
do anything. I just I hope that I'm always, you know,
do anything in the right way, and I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of what we've become, proud of the calls
we build, and proud of everything that we're doing. And

(11:09):
if I've ever made mistakes, and God knows we all do.
At some point in time, I asked forgetting to see
anybody I've across their own and just always try to
step forward and don't look back. You can't worry about
your mistakes. You just got to keep moving forward and
trying to do what we do and that's the woodiving way.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yes, sir, well, Mike, this is your twenty fifth anniversary.
I understand, and obviously that is a very long run.
In my career covering outdoor stuff, which spands more than
forty years, I've seen a lot of folks come and go,
but you all are obviously right at the top in

(11:50):
the industry. And tell folks just a little about how
hard it really is. You know, there's been some bumps
in the road that with folks, and really kind of
you know what made you decide to bite the bullet
and actually do this as a living.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
Well, that's an understatement of saying there's bumps in the road.
There's a lot of hardships because you know, and I
have worked hard and worked through them. But I mean again,
I just I think one thing bigger or a new
thing is not lose faith. Uh. If you know my

(12:31):
thing is is if you're not praying believing, then you're
praying hoping. I mean, you know, and if you're not
going to claim it and have faith that your prayers
are being answered and you're just hoping. So I you know,
I try to stand strong in that faith even when
the days are dark and things look bleak and green
and grim and uh, you know, but there is a

(12:54):
lot of a lot of work that goes into it.
And you know, but there's you know, testimony without a test.
So I mean, there's nothing for me to speak about
if I haven't been tested by the fire, you know,
being put to the test and things not go right,
some things are going well, and you know, again, just perseverance,

(13:17):
I mean, getting it done, having to do it. I mean,
you got to be there when long hours and when
it ain't when things ain't going good or you know,
and orders got to get done. You just got to
do I got to be there getting it done. I
know what it's like to work crazy and hard hours
and got to get it done. And I look start out,

(13:39):
I mean, you know, it was a thing I just believed.
I was that God was closing the door and opening
the door and gave me an opportunity. And I just
believed that I needed to I needed to try or
I was never going to know. I mean I've been
building calls, you know, as a hobby basically for thirty
eight years and then I started it as a business

(14:00):
ninety nine two thousand. So that's why we come up
with our twenty fifth year anniversary. And we have persevered
and come through a lot. But in the beginning, I mean,
it was a business, and businesses have to have pay bill.
I had a young family, and so I was growing
a business and growing the family at the same time.

(14:21):
And it was hard to pay the bills. And you
know I had I hadn't learned how to rob Peter
and pay Paul and just do what I had to
do and do the best I could do. And then
I mean, but as a turkey call company, I mean,
you're not just anything that anybody understands. Bankers don't understand

(14:42):
what I'm trying to do. And you know, I didn't
know what business plans and all that stuff was I was.
I wasn't a businessman going into this. I was just
a guy, you know, a small town guy in a
Turkey call builder. I didn't again, did the best I could,
and uh, but they didn't they weren't. They wasn't books

(15:05):
on how to finance and get through and and if
I had a lot of help along the way from parents,
grandparents and just good friends and associates. I mean I've
been I've been able to keep the doors open, try
to keep you know, at the time, keep babies and
babies and diapers and clothes and the lights on and

(15:26):
peter going, and you know, it's it's it's been tough.
And then but along the way, I created some good
some good things. I had a good mind for building
the products that I wanted to build, and and just
kept being a hard nose got you know, just keeping

(15:47):
keeping until I figured out what I wanted to do.
And then I just don't sacrifice any kind of quality
and I don't cut corners. I do what I'm supposed
to do well.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
I think it's fair to say big part of your
driving passion, because of your love for the sport, was
to help other people have calls that you knew from
the testing and evaluations you and your staff do that
they will definitely appeal to a turkey and help them
be a better.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
Hunter, no doubt. I mean, that's the biggest thing. Is
in one of the greatest satisfactions. And this is not
just using a call that I built for myself. I
mean I started out that way obviously, but in friends
and now, you know, we've got a lot of friends
because every wood aid and customers are is a friend

(16:35):
of us, and we all want them to be successful.
And we're blessed that the calls work, designs work. I mean,
the materials are good and work, and we're able to
produce great products that work good for guys in the
outdoors and let them be more successful. That's a very

(16:55):
true statement.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yes, sir, I know that through the years with watching
the industry and how it's grown. One thing that I
since it's always been your biggest source of pride is
any call across your line, no matter whether it's a
box call or a diaphragm or whatever it is, they're
going to sound very, very seductive to the turkey. I mean,

(17:20):
that's been your driving passion and from where I said,
I think that's a big reason. As I mentioned, you're
right there at the top of the industry.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
Yes, I ain't no doubt about that. You got to
work to be somewhere, and I hope I'm able to
maintain where we are, going up on top being the
leader in the industry.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yes, sir, Well, we'll be back right after this break.
I like to talk more about the calls and your
travels across the country about the turkey flocks. Uh, what's
shaped their end? We're going to talk about your favorite species,
different types of calls. We're basically going to go to
a to z, So folks, hang on. We'll be back
right after this break. This break is presented by Massey

(18:02):
Old Properties, Heart Realty. Paul Thomas is a broker there.
Interestingly enough, he's a big turkey hunter. If you're interested
in turkey properties, Dear Properties, Lakefront Holmes Investment Properties, he's
your man. Check out his current listings at mop h
Rtrealty dot com. Mike, you and I've been chasing these

(18:24):
crazy birds for decades. A lot of changes have come
along the trail, and I'm like your thoughts on where
you think turkey hunting is today and where you think
it's headed. As you know, it's a longtime hunter. And
as a fellow in the industry.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Well, I mean, obviously we're the old crowd so to speak.
I mean when I was coming up, there was some
older guys and the area my town, those four or
five guys it was turkey hunters, you know, And I'm
part of one of them things that I said, Man,

(19:03):
those guys. This is something different about them. I grew
up squirrel hunting, the deer hunting, and then got into
turkey hunting and learned a lot about turkeys by just
going in the woods and spending a lot of time
and being around turkeys in the mountains that I hunt
and uh scourged around in up all the time and ramming.

(19:24):
But I think there's been a lot of changes, I mean,
and in the industry as a as a whole, but
I think turkey hunting itself is still growing and and
and it's a fun sport. You know, a lot of
interactivity in the sport by talling and you know, being

(19:47):
able to engage the turkey is you know sport that
we actually call the turkeys to us to get them
in range and everything. So, I mean it's a very
interactive sport. And I think that way it's come from,
where it's come from is a lot of traditions and

(20:09):
the way things started out, I think it was simple,
and now I think things have got far beyond simple,
But I think it's still fun to do things the
simple and original way, as much original as you can
be and simple and just being in the woods and
being a woodsman, woodsman and woodsmanship. I mean, there's no

(20:32):
substitute for that. But there's a lot of things that
have changed in the industry. And I mean I think
technology and so many aspects, not just in better calls,
better would, better equipment, and so many other things marketing

(20:54):
and the Internet. I mean the advancements in technology about
getting the word out and people sharing information and everything
that's very strong. And I just think the advancements and
so many aspects of what we do has just made

(21:15):
it better and better. I mean as far as efficiency
as a whole as hunters, our calls are better, our
ammunitionaries better, our guns, our weapons, the screw in choke
systems of sites, decoys, there's so many things that have

(21:38):
have been advanced, advancing the opportunity we have at our fingertips.
So sometimes I catch myself just again kind of detoks
and just go back into the woods and just just
be a woods guy. You know, I grew up with

(21:58):
topo mountman of compass. I didn't have all these technologies
like on X and hunt stand and stuff, which I
think that stuff is very very good and it can
help a lot of people become more successful. But I
just think that there's a lot of things that add

(22:19):
up to making that's all more successful as turkey hunters.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Well, I enjoy your comments there about wismonship, because a
lot of that, quite frankly, has been lost because of
people's desire to hunt from binds on fields and whatnot.
Not that that isn't fun and a great thing, and
I do it myself, But understanding turkeys and what they

(22:46):
do and why they do it in various types of
terrain are the key to being a really top notch
turkey hunter. I think you'd agree with that. I challenge myself.
For example, I wanted to know how to kill birds
in swamp. You know how to find ridges out in
swamps where they like to strut where there's pines growing,

(23:07):
for example, because pines won't grow where it's wet, and
turkeys know that instinctively. How they'll follow contours around sides
of mountains like you're talking about. I've hunted Lookout Mountain
in those areas down there where you're talking about, and
that was another challenge. And then you go to Texas
and the plains and get out west, it's a whole

(23:28):
different thing. So the one thing I try to tell
people is immerse yourself into sport, don't just tackle. It
was one type of way of honting.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
I mean, that's that's right. I mean, and woodworship is
of hunting in general, readily especially turkey hunting, and using
the topography, the terrain to cover, knowing where like you said,
timber changes water sources. Uh. Just you know, turkeys is

(24:04):
gonna be turkeys. It doesn't matter where where they are.
Turkey's is gonna be turkeys and they're gonna do turkey things.
I mean, that's the way I've always thought about it,
looked at it just Turkey's gonna be turkeys. So I
try to always remember that fact. And they're just remember
there their animal. They they're gonna do the things that

(24:27):
they're gonna do, and I want to adapt and be
able to out with them. And of course experience. There's
no no way to swamp out experience. And you know,
you've got to be able to chalk one up when
you lose one, and chalk one up when you win one.
I mean, say, hey, there's a lot of that just
been days. Having time in the woods and being in

(24:50):
the woods very important, and like I said, no one
how to read the topography and and how to move
and create your off You create your own opportunities to
by the way you move and operate yourself in the woods,
and how stealthy you can be. We call it being
a ninja. We've got a big initiative with a ninja
thing going on. We feel like when you step out

(25:12):
of that truck and you know, step into the woods,
you become a ninja and stealthy and quiet and how
you set up and go about your business. You know.
So anyway, I guess it'd be easy to get sidetracked
on so many subjects and so many intricacies and parts

(25:32):
and pieces of subjects. Make sure I want to stay
on pace. We and try to provide every piece of
information I can to help provide the information you need
and what others need and what they're hoping to get
out of the program, so they can, you know, possibly
pick up some insights and everything along the way.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
One of the great things that I picked up on
what Mike was saying there, Jim is if you look
at all the legendary turkey hunters, and Mike Pentecost is
one of them. They had to learn the turkeys, and
they had to have the woodsmanship, and over the years,
the products have come from a lot of these folks

(26:12):
that didn't have products to choose from. And that's something
that a lot of young turkey hunters need to understand
that if you can go to the woods with the
best products and with the best, best technology and with
the woodsmanship, you can you can hold your own. But
it's it's so interesting to listen to Mike talk because

(26:36):
it's stressing about how important it is to understand that
turkeys are going to be turkeys no matter where you
hunt them at, and you're going to have to adapt
because those turkeys have adapted to all the different terrains
and habitats that we're going to chase them in.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Mike real quick to this point, roll out three of
the biggest mistakes you think turkey hunters make that can
derail the objectives.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
Call too loud, not enough patience. You know, I always
tell people that's p A T I E N C.
And the E is silent. You gotta have patience, should
be quiet, you know, and moving too quick, I mean
just I mean quickly it would be you know, too

(27:26):
moving too quick, not being persistent patient uh and calling
just too much or not saying not not staying with
the parts and the pieces that you know. I mean
to me, if if I can cluck and kill turkey,
I want to be the best clucker I can be.
And I don't think some folks just watch the latest

(27:49):
video or whatever and just grab a call and take
off of the woods. And I think it's way better
off if we're mores as proficient as we can and
be with our calls, and then the right can do,
you know, camouflage boots, everything. I mean, the Thumersale is
one of the greatest inventions of all time for turkey hunters.

(28:11):
Keeping more critics, the more swamp bugs off of us
and everything, just you know, keep the gnats and the
mosquitoes from you know, I've been in the positions where
I couldn't even hear turkey, god, because there's so much
buzz and going on around my ears with them gnats
and mosquitos and things. You know, having the Thummer Sale
may be the greatest invention of all time for turkey gun.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's probably a good point. We're gonna take a quick
break here, folks. This break is presented by SMI Marine.
They're eleven four hundred Westport road. They're eager to get
you in and help you get your boat ready for
the fishing season or the boating season. Go see them.
Remember you never get soaked by my friends at SMI Mike.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
With all of the talk about the industry change and
what has come on with turkey hunting in the last
few years, there's been a lot of talk about what's
going on with turkey populations and numbers, and you're living
right there in one of the states that's had quite
a bit of research and concerned with it, and be
interested to hear your thoughts and opinions about the health

(29:18):
and the flock of the wild turkey, not just in Alabama,
but across the United States.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
I know it's a loaded question and there's a lot
of research being done and everything looked into the answers
to these questions. And again, I think it's multi faceted deal.
I think, and this just been my book of my

(29:49):
chapter one, verse one. I mean the way I look
at but I think that I'm a common sense guy,
and I just think where there's so many factors that
that can attribute to the decline or decrease, and I
in turkey's as a whole, and you know, guys want

(30:14):
to go in the woods. Some people just want to
go be able to be out there and hear a
turkey gobble and everything, but goblin, I think that may
have been reduced by the amount of predation and everything.
I don't know that's that sometimes our numbers as much down,
but you know, just predation, more varmits that out there

(30:37):
trying to get that turkey. And I think maybe you've
got the decreases in gobbling and activity and everything because
of that. I think that that there's a big wide
spectrum of things that loss of habitat, different types of management,

(30:57):
forums being bought up, old farms are not staying together more,
a lot of things urban sprawl moving and changing. And
I think pesticides and chemicals being used in our forest
airs and in other ways getting into groundwater and everything,
and the time of year that those sprays are applied

(31:19):
and being on eggs or on chicks or you know
that they can really affect the survival of a lot
of those animals. And I don't know, maybe it's different
in different areas, meaning the rate of loss of habitat

(31:49):
and the law and the rate of something agricultural practices
and filled roads and fences being taken out, just just
just habitat in general. That it's different and different airs
because I don't think some places have any decline at all.
It ain't like, Okay, the state of Alabama, this is
That's where I'm from. So this is the state of

(32:11):
Alabama saying Okay, Alabama has got a lower population that
they Well, that's hard. That's a broad statement to make.
I don't think some areas are losing. I think some
areas may be losing more in some areas may be gaining.
It's just again, I think there's in parts of the whole,

(32:38):
the whole, the animal as a whole, of the elephant
in the room, there is the is it maybe getting
decreasing in one spot and different habitats going on over
in the other spot, and just the changes it can be.
But again, we as predators all or ourselves are predators.

(33:02):
So I mean we can be in a situation where
you know, again we're becoming more successful as hunters. We're
becoming more successful. I mean, I don't think people just
think about that, but I think we're becoming more successful
with the ammunition we're shooting. Again. Guns science calls this

(33:25):
communication we're communicating way more. I mean, there's so much
information out there, and you can get information in so
many different ways. I think different people are getting educated
and that makes us again an APEX predator ourselves. I
think we're are very more proficient at what we're doing

(33:46):
with decalls and all these other things just added into
the mix, and I just think we've become a better
predator ourselves. And we have to be true conservationists. And
the few, the proud of the Marines is what they are.
But the few, the proud and the guys that hunt
right and have some value to their hunt and want
their how they hunt and everything and and pride, I

(34:09):
think that means a lot, because I mean, somebody's got
to carry that torts, and I mean, and it's not
just the organization that's got the individuals.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Mike, you touched on something that Scott and I are
very big. Matter of fact, we talk a lot about
it on the program, and that is predator control. By that,
I'm talking about trapping specifically, and I have seen and
we have seen in pretty big areas in some of

(34:39):
the states where we hunt we travel a lot, like
you know, where trapping has really helped the turkey. So
i'd like your thoughts on that, things like raccoons, the
nest presadors, and then of course coyotes and bottlecats.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
In mid park. I know that, I mean, I can
testify of that in close proximity because the helping by
using trapping as a tool, we're able to take out

(35:14):
some of the pressure and the problems that are on turkeys.
And I can testify a specifically about some of the
instances that I know of, and one of them being
on the place that I was hunting about three or
four years ago. I monitored it real, real well, and

(35:34):
that spring I just didn't have much of a hatch
at all. I was running cameras and on the property
a lot and was checking it and just doing some
research on it. It was a new place to me,
and and then but I just did I just noticed
I didn't have a hatch much at all. But yet

(35:56):
that next year it was.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Mike, real quick, I got to go to break, But
we'll continue after this break is presented by Monsell Property's
heart Roalty.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Mike, we've covered a lot of ground about how you
got started and what's going on turkeys and gear. But
when you start getting into this turkey addiction. You cover
a lot of ground too by airplanes and automobiles and.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Burning little boot letter.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
And when you sit down and reflect over your years
and different states that you've turkey hunted in, what's your
favorite species and states that you've got to visit and
hunting and what did you like about them?

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Uh? Yeah, I'll get right back to that. When we
went to break there, I was talking about the personal
experience I had with the predator control, and I'll finish
up on that and I'll get right into this other
part the the It's no doubt that I had straight correlation.

(37:04):
I had a new property that I was working on
and Fall zero Pope survival and Hatch just didn't see
much of a hatch and North survival. And the first
spring and summer that I had that property and I
started to do a trapping program and wounded up trapping

(37:27):
and you know, some coons, some fox and tyrot and
a lot of tunes and possums, and you know, I
run it through the next spring and everything. Next summer
I had a great hatch and had turches everywhere. And
this there is a direct proof that you've got to
control the predators, and if you do control the predators,

(37:49):
that is one part of the equation that we can
definitely help with and get something done to help our
churchy population. But getting into your last question, and there
about my favorite I have been blessed. I mean I
lived the old I don't know what you want, you know,

(38:14):
but I lived the old style back in the day
where I traveled in the truck all over the place
and hunted state after state and your public ground and everything.
So I've seen a lot come, lock go, and but
I as far as and now have opportunities to hunt

(38:34):
other places over time, I've been blessed to be able
to and you go to other places and see a
lot more.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
And I.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
Like the Eastern's here at my house or my home
urf better than anything else. And I think that just
because I enjoy I grew up hunting these old mountains
and the hardwoods and the hills over here, and I
just I just enjoyed that hard goblin mountain Turkey, and

(39:06):
just to go Eastern here at the house. I just think,
if you can kill them here, you can kill them anywhere.
Because the population never uh never, This area that I
live in is the highest points in Alabama in my county,
Tee Hall Mountain, Dugger Mountain, Oaky Mountain, and the very
mountainous end of the foothills of the Appalachians. And we

(39:27):
never lost population of turkey's here. So I told folk,
I tell folks them in they've been uh, these turkeys
I hunt or hats for PhDs, hard hats and flat jackets.
They've seen it all. They've heard it all, seen it all.
You know, it's a tough deal. But I enjoy and

(39:51):
I and my thing is, I tell everybody, it's a
different kind of pretty. Uh. I think I've seen a
lot of pretty places, a lot of states, and and
I'm still gonna cover more. I've enjoyed being able to
go with my my kids all a bunch of different
places over the country. And I just it's just what

(40:12):
I say, is a different kind of pretty. I mean,
it's pretty woods, pretty terrain, but just a different kind
of pretty because in homes this home. But uh, all
the turkeys are fun to hunt. And the experience down
in Mexico, even the ghouls down in Mexico. Uh. We've

(40:35):
been going with Jay Scott in the last three or
four years down to Mexico and Phil Kramer and Jose Luise,
these guys, we've got to know down there, they are
very good at what they do in that experience going
across the border and hunting the goholes is fun. And
of course Florida South Zone right now is OK going

(40:55):
on right now. My son Isaac killed one yesterday, and
I mean, Turkey A is gonna be turkeys again there.
They got their odd odd odd things that they do
with the you know, some of them's hard heads and
some of them got little characteristics about them that make
them be unique in certain ways. But and we've all

(41:15):
had those character turkeys, those turkeys that foolish and and
uh and give us fits and get away all the time.
Sometimes we remember them way more than the ones that
we kill. But I mean, there's enjoyable times about killing
them all and hunting them all. It's fun to experience
a different terrain and the woods and not just the woods,

(41:41):
but just the agriculture and architecture and everything different about
different areas, to try and take it all in, experience it,
enjoy it, love it, be thankful for it. And obviously
the turkeys are all just turkeys, but still it's fun. Uh,
but I wouldn't take anything for the Eastern stick at
the house.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
With that being said, turkeys can sound a little different
depending on where you're stay something and uh, what species
you're going after. When it comes to Eastern turkeys, what's
your what's your favorite call or favorite surface to try
to yelp one up when being patient allows you to

(42:26):
be patient but actually makes some some vocalizations to them.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
You know. The funny thing there is the funny answer
is whatever the turkey wants to hear that day. You
know that's that's that's the funniest quote that we'll all make.
And uh and being as efficient as you can on
all of them. Obviously, we want to use all of
our new toys and tools, and that's one thing that

(42:54):
we have. And you know, I tell everybody I said,
I make tools. Turkeys hunting too was call. My calls
are tools, not toys. I don't intend on playing with
a jsea. I intend on working on him. And again,
I like them all. I've had different times that I

(43:16):
get in ruts or habits that I like a slate call,
a certain glass call, a certain mouth call, a certain
box call, and I get in ruts and everything, but
I'd like to be able to use them all. But
I want to tell you something. I don't think you
can replace the deadliest call we make, and it's not

(43:38):
one of those loud, pretty yupping calls. I love to
call when I can and get one answering to yipping
and cutting and all that carrying on. I mean, that's
all fun. But that plucking purpot and the finisher thing
that we do little it's another just to play on
our plucking purpot. It's a completely waterproof thing, makes it

(44:00):
easy in the damp conditions and dewy conditions. It's a
lot out there in the cold mornings and everything. But
the dead list call we makes, clutting pur pot and
that finisher thing, which more of the soft calling clucking Perry,
and the reason it is because it stays in it
in its wheelhouse. You don't make a loud call because

(44:24):
you can't. And you know, when the going gets tough
and I'm on a tough turkey that I want to
get killed, I try to leave everything else at home
and just take a clucking pur pot and make it
be where I can't hit that that box call, or
I can't hit that pretty new slate call or crystal
because I try to stay within the rems of what

(44:46):
I'm trying to do, and that's a lot of time
trying to be quiet, conservative and consistent with what I'm doing.
Just clut per soft call and I mean more of
the turkey dialogues in that range anyway, and it makes
you a lot more successful being Like I said, if
I'm clutting kidding, I clutt and kill him all day long.
Let's be the best cluckerund.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Me, Mike. I want to put a big amen on
that you're You're a man after my own heart on
that one. Hey, I've got to go to break here.
This break is presented by a SMI marine. Go see
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(45:32):
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(45:53):
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(46:16):
your timber management to maximize profits while keeping your property
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one or check him out at Coxforestry dot com. Mike,
you all make all kinds of calls. I've got a

(46:36):
pretty simple question. I'd like just some quick thoughts about
the merits of each types of calls and where you
would have applied them. By that, I mean, you know,
why use the slate versus a diaphragm? Why use the
different surfaces? No, sir, we're here here my question.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Yeah, I didn't know if I had a little palls
in the phone. I don't know why the again, I
think it's just the pits, tones and rhythm and cadence.
Should never be should never be a change that should
be something we practiced up with, whether we're using uh

(47:27):
mouth call, slate call, crystal call, box call, whatever, rhythm
and cadence sounded like a turkey should never should never change,
but the type of call changes, uh pitch and sometimes
it just hits that nerve for a turkey. I mean again,

(47:48):
I think guys should go with stuff that give them confidence,
uh diaphragm calls or sometimes the hardest I guess to
learn or to mass and and in finding that one
it fits. I mean, we make a lot of different
designs of mouthcalls, and I mean you got the different reads, configurations, thicknesses, cuts,

(48:13):
There's so many things that can go. Uh. It makes
little changes in the mouthcalls and then different pitches and
tones and everything of slate, crystal, glass, box calls. There
just to me, it's just a different pitch, tone, raspiness.

(48:34):
There's a I don't know how to explain really the
the whine to have other than just trying to sound
like a turkey. I mean, one thing I try to do,
like if I've got a I used to tear a
couple of boxes with me and you know, three or
four plot calls and two or three mouthcalls maybe even
a tube call and different things that I can do

(48:58):
that because to match a hen or match turkeys, I'm here.
If I hear a certain hen, I'm going to try
to match that pits and tone and sound that she's doing.
She may sound like she's an old Rasby box call
that I got right there in my left pocket, or
a slate call. If I hear that tone, I'm gonna
try to match it, and having more tools than you

(49:22):
toolbox to work on them, I think, and give you
an advantage.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Well, to give an example of what I'm asking here,
like on Wendy days, Let's say where the conditions are
against you, I love a real loud box call or
or a slate or a crystal because of that residence.
You know, it reaches out a little better than a
diaphragm in those circumstances. For example, right, are you with

(49:52):
me on that? I mean, I'd like you.

Speaker 4 (49:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Further thoughts about.

Speaker 4 (49:56):
That, well, so, I mean I she was in water
or wet conditions. Obviously the mouth calls not affected by that,
and some of our water a reason we've made some
waterproof friction calls so that they're not affected. You can
still sound, uh, well with a water for even in

(50:16):
wet conditions, rain or whatever. I personally hate getting all
my equipment wet and me getting wet, and I hate
a wet Turkey. But you know, no, and then but
having your I mean you're correct, and the winding conditions
and the liver conditions does make a change in the

(50:40):
in the call we might choose to use. I mean
having a box call or aluminum call or a high
pitched crystal. The aluminium really can be high pitched and
help really get you to extend, extend your sound and
your range of sound and getting a big you know,
cover more distance and get with a with a barking,

(51:03):
high pierce piercing sounds. So yeah, it makes a big difference, yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
One thing, one thing I'd like to brag on, Jim,
is I've been running Mike's calls for a pretty long time,
and uh, there's there's something special in a lot of them,
but that consistent sound that Mike is able to build
and put into so many Turkey calls when you look

(51:34):
at what they're producing and the volume. And one thing
I want to brag on is there's a bunch of
good ones out there, but Mike's aluminum calls and his
pot calls are some of my all time favorites. And
there's this there's something sweet about them. Turkeys really like them.
And and I want to thank him for something else

(51:55):
too that he's done, and that is he has made
the one and the only good striker that works and
operates in wet conditions, and Mike is just a turkey hunter.
I can't thank you enough for that.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Well. I appreciate that it's UH our new rain check,
that's what we call it, and it has become a
game changer. And the fact that yes, people have found
out that they can use that on all kinds of
services and it truly works and creates a great fun
on the pot calls. I really appreciate you recognizing us

(52:33):
in the integrity of what we do in the making
good calls and UH and consistently doing that. That's that's
my goal, My whole goal and everything that I do
is is to create that good call and doing it
consistently and you know, providing good service and a good

(52:54):
call for everybody you know, like UH.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
To follow up with we're saying here, one of my
favorite techniques for tough turkeys is to sound like more
than one hen. In other words, a single type of
call might not get the job done. You can run
a diaphragm and then give a few yelps on a
pot call or or a little slate call in the
back of it. That's put a lot of turkeys in

(53:21):
the grave.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
For me, I ain't no doubt. I mean, I'm a
big believer in that soft calling.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yes, sir, it's uh. It puts them in the grave.
As I like to say. All right, folks, we got
to go to break here. This break is presented by
Maciel Properties Heart Realty. Paul Thomas is the broker there.
He's got all kinds of outdoor properties for sale from
wildlife management properties, the farms, vacation homes, on lakes and streams.

(53:51):
Check out all their listings at mop h A r
Trealty dot com. Mike, Uh, obviously you've got a tremendous
amount of experience hunting public land and a lot of
private land. Can you give folks some tips and techniques
for those different scenarios, because it's almost like two different

(54:11):
worlds in a.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Way, it can be. I mean, I grew up hunting
so much in the National forests and maybe there and
the deep woods and everything still my favorite. But again
I would say, trying to answer your question, give the

(54:33):
tip and technique of whatever. I think that you've got
to just think and plan your approach to a turkey.
And at all times, I don't know that there's a
whole lot of difference and the turkeys can fail. Turkey's

(54:54):
is gonna be turkeys. But you just gotta feel, right,
you just gotta figure how much a turkey in the
in the in the manavagery or public ground has been
messed with and and and attacked, you know, and and
every call that he every you call, old call, all

(55:17):
kinds of calls, box calls, calls, everything, the nearest trends
and whatever. Those those turkeys are just bombarded with those
kind of conditions, conditions and heard it all, seen it all,
had a lot of folks know that may or may

(55:37):
not know. They just keep it approaching and and attacking
the turkey at all times. I mean, a turkey in
the public ground is pressured probably way more than the
private ground. And of course if it's private and you
you're the only one, or you're in a select body
or two of the only ones that that are on it,

(55:58):
then you know how much pressure that turkey is getting
if he's not getting approached by approacher or approachers or
anybody from outside resources. So I mean my thing is
if you just got to approach the public ground in
a way of figuring where others hunters are coming from

(56:19):
and what the common guy is thinking, and doing a
lot of time walking the Frame Ridge road or the
same access roads and talling from those roads and everything
where everybody else is that turkey has heard that, heard that,
heard that. Sometimes I think if you just do a
little extra work to come in a turkey from a
different direction. So when I have time, I like to

(56:43):
walk deep and get back in where I can't where
you know, probably less amount of people go. But to me,
a church is going to be a turkey. He don't
know if he's roosting one hundred feet from the road
or one hundred miles from the nearest road. He's just
going with a habitat and everything works for him. But
I like to think on public especially about the ways

(57:05):
the turkey is being approached and has been approached, and
the common thing where all that boot traffic is, and
then just figure how he's been approached from that direction,
and I try to come at something totally different, and
I can use the same technique on private even I mean,
I think the turkeys are still turkeys. They're just a

(57:25):
lot more pressure and a lot more antagonizing to the turkeys,
just constantly hearing stuff on the public where they might
not be as bad on private.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yes, sir, I know, like you, I cut my teeth
on public gram. I started hunting turkeys at LBL back
when we didn't have turkeys anywhere in Kentucky. And then
I started traveling to Missouri and your state of Alabama
and Arkansas, different areas down there, and it was all

(57:59):
public hunting back then. And one thing I noticed, I
guess helped me kill turkeys consistently in those places was
to realize that the number one thing was to find
where one was. By that, I mean, you know, try
to get him to gobble right at daylight, or just
listen to him gobble. And then the second thing was

(58:20):
to get to him quickly and yet be stealthy, in
other words, getting his pocket without busting him off the rooster,
letting him know you're barging in on and then back
to you what you said so many times during this
program soft calling. Too. Many of these guys today see

(58:41):
these television shows and videos that are done on private land,
the turkeys that in many cases have never been around
the hunter, and they look like a hero because they're
throwing five different types of calls at them on public ground.
That doesn't work.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
Too well, don't it, really don't. I mean again, they've
heard it all, and I just I just believe that
the soft calling, but not only the soft call. I
think if your approach to a turkey is very important.
I mean, how how you're walking, are you crunching, are

(59:20):
you making noise? Breaking sticks and just making unnecessary noise.
I think the turkey hears all all that and can
get kind of spooky himself just when you're quote unquote
that you're barging in, like you said, barging in on him.
And this, I think it's very important the way we

(59:40):
all move and react, using terrain and everything to get
ourselves into position for the to call to a turkey.
I mean, people, just one simple thing that that people
I think ignore is how they sit down to a turkey.
You know, they come running and walking, stumbling in there,
and you know I've seen guys just flop down against
a tree and make all kind of scrubbing the bark

(01:00:05):
noise and everything. I mean, you know, I'm sitting there thinking, man,
do you realize how much noise that I mean, you
just you just scrub the cord. You're a backpack down
down that bark of that tree, that pine tree, and
you sound like a bear coming to you and flunk.
You know. I just think if you just use consense
and stealth and being a ninja, you know, it's kind

(01:00:25):
of the name we've kind of trade mark to being ninja.
Like I mean, if you just do things and just
ease in and back yourself into the tree and be quiet,
there's just a lot of simple things that can make
you more successful as well as a soft tone.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Michael, this is gonna seem like an odd question to
somebody that makes turkey calls, but I think you'll appreciate it.
There's a place in time when you've got to realize
that turkey has heard you calling and you need to
shut up. You need to get off that call and
let that turkey do what they naturally do, which is

(01:01:04):
when the hen doesn't come to them, they'll come to
see what the reason was for that, and that, to
me is one of the most important things that most
soners don't realize. Once you've convinced that turkey that you're
a hen and you're there, you've pretty much done your job.
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
I do. I mean, we all like to call way
too much. And every time we got the new toys
and we've got good calls, and we want to get
up there. And but the thing about it is here
in the turkey gobble because a lot of guys want
to make him. Well, I got I heard one this
morning gobbled five or six times. You know, well I

(01:01:44):
got him a hundred times. But did you kill him?
I mean, the whole goal is to call him up
and kill him, you know, making him gobble ain't there.
And you're a bit of good if you ain't putting
him in the fact, you know, if you ain't taking
him for a ride in your truck, you ain't done
nothing but educating him more. And he's just you keep
calling he just a lot of times, just gonna keep
answering right where he is and saying, yeah, hey, honey,

(01:02:06):
but I ain't coming over there. So if he ever
engaged it, you feel like you've made a good uh
presentation and a good series of calls. And I you know,
that's why I give it patience and give it some time.
And if he leaves, he leaves, and if he don't,
he don't. And sometimes that's just part of lusianship too,
and a little bit of turkey ism. I mean, no

(01:02:27):
one when to hold him and no one when to
fold him on a turkey. I mean sometimes you think, man,
now you know, I think I'm into this spot. And
if you don't, then maybe wait five or ten more minutes.
And planning. I like to plan my movies. I like
to look at my terrain and look at my mapple
just look at the wood come in. And I like
to I like to plan my moods, like, Okay, I'm

(01:02:48):
gonna try to gain thirty yards. I'm gonna try to
go right up this uh drain right here, and I'm
gonna get to that tree right there that may help
me if so, I try to make my moods and
and uh I walk and I staggered motion kind of
so that I'm move and stop moving, stop so I
can hear and pick up on anything else in the

(01:03:08):
woods where it's a blue jay or a squirrel or
a hawk or crow or anything going off, it's given
me indication of what that turkey is doing at that time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
That's that's very well said, Mike. I'm gonna go to
quick break here, folks. This break is presented by SMI Marine.
Go get your boat ready for spring, and remember you
never get soaked by my friends at SMI.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Mike, with all of the popularity in the subgage shotguns
or ten twenty eight gauge, twenty gauge, and of course
we still got a lot of guys that are hunting
with a twelve gage, few hunting ten gauge, you've got
some AMO that is a little bit more wicked than
just what the average AMO is sitting on the shelf.

(01:03:56):
Tell us a little bit about what you've got in
the line with the Ninja, in the next level line
of TSS, Well.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
We've got some killers, big time. Them things is some
kind of good. The Apex has been a leader in
the TSS loads and everything, and they've created a couple
of loads for us and Ninja obviously been real popular
last few years. The eight and a half has been

(01:04:29):
consistently the top patterning load from test after test after
tests at eight and a half Apex Ninja load that
they've been we've been doing for the last three or
four years has been the top performer. And now they
have created a blend for us called Next Level Ninja,
which is an eight and a half nine and a

(01:04:50):
half blend. And I'm gonna tell you what, whatever we've
figured out by listening to them and getting information from
them to teach us what they know by it, well
we tighten chokes up just a little bit for the blend,
the new Next Level Ninja and the I just don't
keep I don't saying we keep getting better. I mean,

(01:05:12):
but we do. I mean, we all have to be
the best we can. And I mean again it goes
back to what we started talking about in the broadcast.
I mean, it's part of the parts and the pieces
that do we just keep getting better and more technological
advances and getting better and better and more lethal and everything.
But I know this, that TSS stuff in the roads

(01:05:35):
of Apex builving us in the Ninja and the next
leven Ninja is some bad stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
It's helped a lot of young kids get out too
and do some turkey hunting, not just introducing them to
the sport. Something that's important to me as a lot
of younger folks are getting remember now hunt with their
grandfather because.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
I mean, you know, me have fourteens, even me, I
mean I've used fourteens, and with this new ammunition and everything,
I mean, it can be easy that the guns are
lighter and they're but they're deadly. I mean the range
and everything with these h guns is just phenomenal. And

(01:06:20):
I mean and you can use it for kids, I
mean you and everything. You have a fourteen that will
kill a turkey at long distances and uh, I mean
which we don't want long distance, but I mean, but
they're very effective and that gets a lot of people
out in the woods and actually killing turkeys, which is

(01:06:41):
what you want.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
And it's interesting to watch you, uh on the YouTube
and keep up with social media a little bit. Tell
us a little bit about your adventures and where folks
can watch not only you, but the wood Haven team
use product and chase turkeys of all different species across
the United States on the.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
Yeah, we got a YouTube channel and we're gonna be
doing more things than We've got some new editing producing
guys with my son Isaac is working in our marketing
and everything. We're trying to and energize with some new
prospectives and not just the same old thing that we've

(01:07:28):
always done. And uh, but we have a with even
YouTube channel of Officer. We're on Facebook and they do
the Instagram and everything. Man, I'm getting too old for
all this technological stuff and all this cool stuff that
everybody's doing nowadays. And I just, uh, I'm a bit
of an old stool and and uh, but they do

(01:07:48):
it on the Instagrams and facebooks and everything. I know
it's I can't remember exactly what it is on the YouTube,
but it's you know, what even custom calls and what
even calls on and the Turkey Ninja is a sub
of bursting there to search for the YouTube and everything.

(01:08:10):
I know it's churching ninja. And but we have a
Weaven channel. And you know, like I said earlier, we
were blessed of being our twenty fifth year. I've been
building calls for thirty eight, but this was something that
being a twenty fifth year. I've been doing it for
a business and trying to make them living out of

(01:08:31):
it for twenty five years. But I won't tell you
something else in my opinion that has made the guns.
And I learned a lot of this by teaching my kids.
And I know we ain't got much longer here on
this program, and I think it's been a good program.
But I'll tell you something I learned teaching my own kids.
My boys are now seventeen and eighteen, and everything I

(01:08:52):
started with them when they were five six, just when
they were old enough and good enough to handle them
handle the things that need to be handled. That was
the weaponry, teaching them how to be safe, point the gun,
teaching gun safety. But these red dots copes have made
things where not only for me or you or anybody else,

(01:09:14):
but these kids can hold that red dot, they can
be taught a whole lot easier to hold that red
dot on the turkey's wattles and pull the trigger squeeze
versus trying to keep that vent re over sights lined up.
I just think that makes a big difference.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
You know, I'm glad you spoke to that night because
Scott and I have covered down on previous programs and
it is a huge aid. And something else I think
we need to throw in there when we're talking about
that in the accuracy because of how tight these guns
shoot with these loaves is with kids especially, is to

(01:09:50):
use a rest that I mean just like you move
with a deer rifle, especially bind Honey. I think it's
really important to have a child o's ability to lean
on something to steady up before they make that shot.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
Yeah, they makes some cool tools out there now. It's
unifor it and everything. I mean, some of these rests
that you can telescope of legs, get them real steady,
swell from the top and everything. But you know, I'm
gonna tell you something, it's a long times a good
old using you wretched the cutters and everything. Cutting the
good old wife's happening and making a way to hold

(01:10:26):
that gun steady and hold it up for a kid
or an adult. And it's not just kids. Making a
good lethal shot is very important. I think the science,
the ammunition and everything, along with our calls and our
stealth makes us a better hunting But I mean, like
I said, just cutting the old simple wive stick sometimes
to give you a good rest.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Yes, sir, I said, to my advantage, and with a
lot of kids out there, it's definitely something good to
think about. Mike. Uh, we got just a few minutes here,
any thoughts had them, thoughts that you want to pass
along to new Turkey hunters that are just now entering
the sport.

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):
I would just don't be don't be discouraged and overwhelming
they so much that you from I would, uh, you know,
pray for direction and guidance and try to listen to
somebody's and finding faith and confidency and uh, you know,
put spending money on products that make a difference. And
and again, if it's something simple, keep it simple. Uh,

(01:11:29):
it shouldn't be that big an ordell. It's a fine ordeal.
But if you can cut and kill him, be the
best part of you and be you ain't got to
have everything, the whole plethora of everything, fancy guns and
everything over something simple. Just but go with something that's
competent and works. I mean, but don't don't be feared
of being over over complicating anything, and don't be pushed

(01:11:53):
down by anything. Don't be disturbed.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Believe it exactly and patience.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
Pay e A t I E n C and the
e sid you better write that one down, boys and girls.
P A T I E N Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Is yes, sir, I appreciate that. Hey, Mike really enjoyed
the program myself, and thanks so much for taking time
to join the folks. That's a wrap for tonight. Be
careful light there, God bless everybody.